#1 - Blake La Grange | Music, Collaboration, Courses

0:01what's up how's it going good how you

0:04going

0:06good what have you been working

0:10on

0:12um lot although I think in the

0:16past I'd say six months to a year I've

0:19kind of

0:19been um kind of been

0:22hiding yeah just been going through a

0:24lot of like business transition

0:26stuff yeah what do you mean like

0:33well I mean like kind of the the the cat

0:35out of the bag or like the elephant in

0:37the room with me SL theindustry is I

0:40like built this

0:42um music education company right um and

0:48Al like scaled

0:50it gave our team all the control and

0:53then like sold my majority share so I'm

0:56kind of a free agent so before i s dive

1:00into the next thing um yeah it's like I

1:04want to I've been spending the last six

1:07more than six months creating

1:09environments around me like for breeding

1:11creativity because that's kind of what

1:13happened when I started the business so

1:15we talking about mastering decom yeah so

1:19you you've fully exited that now I

1:23wouldn't say fully because I still own

1:25like a minority percentage oh got it

1:28yeah so I found that you can like sell

1:31these businesses which I never thought

1:33was possible so yeah like I got now I'm

1:38sort of I'm a minority holder still the

1:40founder obviously

1:42but when that sells to some education

1:46company like I'll I'll get that nut too

1:48or

1:49whatever yeah and I know a lot about it

1:53but for people that are listening like

1:55tell me what we tell them what mastering

1:58domcom is yeah so it's been a pretty

2:01crazy Evolution so it first was a

2:04company that

2:06basically I was talking with Clint

2:08before before we started recording it it

2:10just teaches people how to master music

2:13so if you take like all the music

2:14production process so songwriting

2:18recording arranging all the stuff all

2:20the creative stuff and then production

2:22actually putting it to paper and then

2:24recording it and then mixing it and that

2:28last sort of 10% the sliver before it

2:31gets on the radio it's like it's always

2:34missing something it's that Sheen it's

2:36what makes excellent music different

2:38than extremely excellent music like the

2:41professional quality that's that was

2:43sort of like a dark art in the industry

2:46and so I built this whole business

2:48around doing that I I put in my 10,000

2:51hours mastered like 30,000 songs or

2:53something just like on

2:54repeat and there there came a time where

2:58I felt deep in my bones that in order

3:02for the artist to get better quality

3:05music they needed to do it

3:09themselves like deep

3:11conviction yeah so mastering is the

3:14thing that the are they audio Engineers

3:18yeah they're they're mastering Engineers

3:19but Engineers yeah and so that that's

3:22what they're doing when they're in that

3:23room with all of the mixing discs and

3:26things like that yeah so like even in

3:27that world right there's two different

3:28people there's the mix Engineers with a

3:30mixing desk they're kind of throwing

3:32their weight around lots of faders once

3:35they're done they print it down to like

3:37a two track so just left and right

3:38stereo because at the end of the day it

3:39has to just go through two sets of

3:41speakers left and right they take that

3:43two track and send it to the mastering

3:45engineer and the master engineer only

3:47manipulates that stereo track so it's

3:49really fine-tuned oh so they don't have

3:52access to all of the levels they've got

3:54it yep I see

3:57but this is like the evolution of all

3:59this

4:01I was sitting there this was like really

4:04what was cool about this I was sitting

4:05there mastering and sending it back to

4:08these people but then it but then it

4:11turned around and basically became

4:13something where I

4:14just gave them advice like before they

4:17uploaded it I like this this sounds

4:20horrible you the song's great but just

4:22sonically it's no good and I can Master

4:25it and in fact here it is but if you

4:27change this this this this about your

4:29mix or if I had access to the mix I

4:31could fix all this up and then I'll

4:33Master it and then it'll sound a

4:34thousand times better 10 times out of 10

4:37they would kind of bow down and say like

4:38sure I'll do that so I just started

4:41helping them with mastering pushing back

4:44on their mixes and then getting it ready

4:46for mastering and

4:48so yeah once once that process happened

4:52I realized that the magic wasn't in me

4:54like

4:55fine-tuning it was me explaining what

4:57the difference was with what they gave

4:59me what I intended to do with it and

5:01because I didn't have access to

5:03everything I just asked for it and kind

5:06of got in their shoes a little bit and

5:08just kind of wanted to yeah wanted a

5:13little bit more of the project and every

5:14time they changed it it was always great

5:17yeah so that's how the company started

5:18is I

5:19literally just said you could do this

5:22yourself but the power in it is is what

5:24I'm

5:25hearing if you just knew what I knew you

5:28would mix this different ly you would

5:30record this

5:32differently and so I just kind of

5:34started on this mission of teaching

5:36others how to do

5:37it got to so to to be like a really good

5:42mastering engineer you had to get access

5:45to things that typically a mastering

5:47engineer wouldn't have access to exactly

5:50that's a good way to put it got it yeah

5:52makes sense there's so much ego around

5:53the mastering engineer world that

5:55they're kind of like this

5:58wizard but honestly man like as soon as

6:01I realized that like if they just knew

6:05what I

6:06knew they could fre they would do it

6:09themselves like what I was doing was not

6:11that special so why did it become the

6:14skill that like cuz most bands and like

6:20artists they don't Master their music

6:22right so why did it become this thing

6:24that was just like given to someone at

6:26the end how did it get like that because

6:29the music industry started like that

6:31throughout the whole entire process so

6:33it wasn't that the band did everything

6:34and the master engineer just did that

6:36think about it the band like first of

6:39all there are no bands anymore so the

6:41music industry is

6:43changing but the band would literally

6:46just be responsible for like Jing right

6:49writing a good song that's all that they

6:52that's all that was required to them

6:54right so everything was outsourced we

6:57need to go to recording studio

7:00right like boom no home recording

7:02studios we need somebody to record this

7:04okay there's a recording engineer we

7:05need somebody to mix this mix engineer

7:07so it's the idea is so that they can

7:08only focus on what they're good at and

7:11they don't need to get involved with

7:12everything

7:13else that's why it was sent off and then

7:16as technology progressed throughout the

7:19last yeah ever since like the 60s or

7:2370s you saw that wave kind of go away to

7:26where now the artists had a computer

7:30so okay well I'll just like set up my

7:32computer and we'll start recording well

7:35I really want to be in control of this

7:37more so I'll start mixing and then the

7:38music production process got to a point

7:40where the

7:41computer was dictating the music so you

7:44see this huge rise in hipop and EDM and

7:47all this sort of non-organic music cuz

7:50the computer got involved so now the

7:52artist is a mixing engineer instead of

7:55the artist you see what I mean and

7:58mastering was the last Domino got it

8:02yeah it wasn't literally only until the

8:04last 3 or four years where people were

8:07mastering themselves and i' like to

8:09think that I don't want to say

8:12single-handedly Chang that but like was

8:14a big part of that giving it the right

8:18so you had a skill mastering and then

8:22you could see that it would be

8:24beneficial if the artists did it yeah so

8:27then you created mastering tocom and you

8:29said teaching the skill yeah

8:31exactly and did that go well

8:36yeah yeah I

8:38remember like first I had these clients

8:41that

8:42were like um they were great like we I

8:46did great work for them and we were

8:48really close but I started like them I

8:52was an artist or like a musician I was a

8:55music producer you know I have my 10,000

8:58hours and all that

9:00yeah so it went really well

9:03cuz yeah it it basically got to the

9:06point

9:08where my journey just became their

9:12journey and I could empathize with

9:15them yeah so it went it went well I mean

9:18there's a lot there for

9:19sure but as soon as I as soon as I like

9:22started it it just took off nice yeah

9:26and then you ran a successful infobus

9:30so you were an artist then you were a

9:33mastering engineer then you were like a

9:35teacher

9:36entrepreneur um what was it like being

9:40the entrepreneur teacher after being the

9:42doer and the artist right

9:46so once you get into music you basically

9:49sign off the idea that you're going to

9:51work for somebody and and artists don't

9:54realize that until much much later

9:58whether they fall on their face and

9:59don't do well or they get some sort of

10:01Deal or

10:02something but I knew that pretty quickly

10:07that I like was working for myself so

10:11that's kind of the definition of an

10:12entrepreneur is somebody who doesn't

10:15work for somebody they work for

10:16themselves

10:17M yeah so in that world you have artists

10:20who are very creative and they can't run

10:22a business and they don't understand

10:25operations and they rely really heavily

10:28on their talent and 99% of them fail

10:32then you have sort of the folks who

10:34realize oh I'm not I'm not like in music

10:37I'm like an

10:38entrepreneur and I just for whatever

10:41reason had that in my bones I just knew

10:44that I would actually go so far to say

10:46that I knew that I was an

10:49entrepreneur type person pretty quickly

10:53going into it I knew that this was this

10:56was just one way to interact with

10:57entrepreneurship m

10:59well I guess spotting the need for

11:01mastering

11:03Services you were already doing it right

11:06yeah right yeah like I tell this story

11:10to like mixing Master Engineers like in

11:13my field and they're like

11:16dude they they almost say like you're

11:18not in it for the craft or the music but

11:20it's just how I was thinking about it

11:23literally I was a record producer and

11:26the way that that works is

11:29it's all leverage so like usually

11:31there's a studio and at the time I was

11:34like 16 or 17 I graduated high school

11:37early and that's like all that I

11:38did but the bands would pay the studio

11:42like five or 6 hundred

11:44bucks then I would charge you know 200

11:47bucks or something whatever it is so

11:50like $700 later you know I keep2 200 the

11:53studio keeps and I was working 10 hours

11:55a day and I hated it cuz

11:59I just it was just so unfair so then I'm

12:03like okay how do you how do you break

12:05through

12:06this so you either need to have your own

12:09studio and keep that

12:12overhead or charge more and find those

12:15artists who are willing to pay right so

12:18I remember one

12:20day my first time I ever did this the

12:23band that we recorded I literally an

12:25entire week 10hour

12:27days and when we were done with it we

12:30had the album and we went to master

12:32it and we charged at the time $300 to

12:37master an album it took like maybe an

12:39hour or two and I would split it with

12:42the studio so I'd make like 150 bucks in

12:45an

12:46hour and I think I fell in love more

12:50with that idea than I did with oh I

12:54really love mastering so

12:57much it was a thing I was probably

12:59at but that idea kind of took off from

13:02me I saw the power of Leverage if I

13:05could just work like 10 hours of

13:07mastering I could get so many projects

13:10done and make so much more M so much

13:12more money and then if I got rid of the

13:14studio I now I don't need a recording

13:16studio I just need a mastering Studio

13:18the overhead goes lower now I can charge

13:20five or 6 hundred bucks or something for

13:22an

13:23album yeah and that would take me an

13:26hour so I just did that for 10 years

13:31yeah and got real good at it got real

13:33good at it and got a process going and

13:36wasn't trying to be famous and wasn't

13:38trying to win

13:40anything just really cared about the

13:43craft and you did some like impressive

13:47records right yeah like I I guess

13:51there's there's

13:53some yeah like I I worked with lots of

13:56the old guys like chap trick and Chicago

13:58and all those guys um some newer guys um

14:02mace uh we worked on a Kanye

14:05track

14:07um yeah I worked with Hansen I did a

14:09couple pod

14:11records and that wasn't because I was

14:14trying to get it I just was like

14:15focusing on the craft and it just kind

14:18of came this is why I like your story so

14:20much

14:21because you did something first like the

14:25craft right mastering and it was pure

14:28you didn't just get into it for money

14:30because you loved music right cuz you

14:32were an artist then you got really good

14:34at it and then you collected like the

14:38key clients to basically show that

14:40you're good at it right and then when

14:42you move to info it translates so much

14:44better yeah yeah yeah man like if you I

14:49mean you're obviously in the info world

14:51I'm just now finding out that this info

14:54world is full of people who aren't

14:55really good at what they do or at least

14:57haven't spent 10,000 hours doing this

15:00one craft a lot of them are very good at

15:03marketing and they' spent 10,000 hours

15:05doing marketing which is why there's a

15:08lot of info courses on how to do

15:11marketing yeah yeah but there's a lot of

15:13people are missing that Bas skill like

15:16mastering or bodybuilding or cooking or

15:19whatever it is yeah right yeah we've

15:20talked about this before um and kind of

15:23like what I'm into now or like

15:25transitioning into is you have yeah

15:28marketers marketing marketing to

15:30marketers and it's insufferable I mean

15:34there's so many of them

15:38and it's really fighting an uphill

15:40battle because you're just your special

15:42skill set is

15:44marketing so then when they need to go

15:46like pick a niche they just like look at

15:49the market and go like who needs

15:51help and like they'll just mark it to

15:54them but they have no depth or

15:57understanding of like what a dentist

16:00you know what I mean or like well the

16:02person who always breaks through is the

16:03person that understands yeah like even

16:06like hosy with Jims right right like he

16:10that was his thing right yeah yeah I

16:12mean he I think in a couple videos he

16:14even said like I don't know why people

16:16keep thinking that I'm like the gym guy

16:18I've been out of gyms dude first of all

16:22you're jacked but yeah but I think

16:24that's something good to lean into yeah

16:27yeah it's like I

16:29I know my

16:30craft so

16:33then you did ming.com it was real

16:37[Music]

16:38successful why did you want to get

16:43out yeah it's sort of like that

16:45Evolution story um I don't know if it

16:49was like who was it JayZ you know that

16:54like story where first he like was just

16:56doing his you know music and then he ort

16:59of like grew into a producer and so

17:00forth and then got into marketing and so

17:03forth I found that my through line was I

17:06don't want to say like my through line

17:07is the same as JC's not at all but I

17:11resonate a lot with

17:12that is

17:15um yeah I'm not going to like live and

17:17die on a hill for just music this is

17:21like a thing that I got really good at

17:23and from for 10 years this is what I did

17:27but I found much more interest in like

17:30entrepreneurship building a team

17:31building a business and all of those

17:34skill sets that I had in the studio

17:37applied signal chain routing systems

17:40team of people being in charge teaching

17:44producing it's all there so I it felt

17:48like I was cheating a little bit just

17:50felt it own

17:51natural you

17:53know so when I transitioned

17:56from being a record producer

17:59working with some great

18:01people like most people just don't even

18:03move on from that because they just

18:05that's all they want to

18:06do but like you have to you have to get

18:10out of that sometimes and when I decided

18:13to build mastering decom it was I had to

18:16force myself to to let basically work

18:19myself out of a job it's the evolution

18:22process so was to Niche specific in a

18:26way for you and eventually it got really

18:29specific yeah to

18:32where like the way to scale that or to

18:36you know continue doing that I either

18:39needed to continue being the subject

18:41matter expert or I needed to evolve as

18:44like a business owner or get good at

18:47marketing or operations or all the sort

18:49of

18:49pieces but

18:52um yeah like at the end of the day

18:55you're still in that

18:57Niche and

18:59that's fine like I love music it's like

19:01who I am for sure but it wasn't even

19:04just music it was mastering which is

19:07even more specific than super it was

19:09yeah so so now what the company's doing

19:11now is the entire program or

19:14transformation process is now not

19:16mastering so that whole philosophy that

19:18I told you about how I was pushing back

19:20on the mix and so forth we monstered

19:22that out pulled that thread and now it's

19:25like a 25 week transformation process

19:29and it starts with mastering and then

19:31mixing and then production and so forth

19:33and it's this huge thing so it's now not

19:35even mastering anymore it's production

19:37so you kind of we had to like get out of

19:39that

19:40Niche got it you know yeah I know what

19:43that is like

19:47yeah

19:51so what now

19:53then so I I get why you wanted to get

19:56out but what are you doing now and how

20:00you thinking about it yeah all I knew

20:03was that in order to keep growing I

20:05needed to get out like we had a team I

20:07think I told you before we recorded we

20:09had like 33 people working for us at

20:11some point um scaled it it's it was like

20:14a multi figure business you know

20:16teaching mastering which is insane

20:20but our team is amazing and the Market's

20:24cool um but I can honestly say that like

20:29I it was birthed because the product was

20:31really good like I can say that with

20:34lots of humility and conviction at the

20:36same time I just I know it's really good

20:38I know it m

20:40and that's like that's very very

20:43important to me that things are really

20:44excellent as a mastering engineer you

20:46kind of have to think like

20:47that so that kind of stuck with me but

20:53you know as I kind of went through this

20:55Evolution process of like being really

20:57excellent at something

20:59and then like teaching it and then

21:00leaving the role and building a team and

21:02having a team of people building a

21:04company and then ultimately selling it

21:06in a very Niche specific thing like I

21:10can't help but um I I can't ignore the

21:13fact that that's difficult to

21:15do I think it's e maybe not easier but

21:19just the fact that it's so Niche I'm

21:21sort of like looking back going like how

21:23in the world did that happen and it

21:25comes down to like the product was

21:27really good

21:29yeah so I just want to do that a

21:31thousand times yeah and instead of me

21:34being like well now I'm going to learn

21:36how to like paint and spend the next 10

21:39years painting and then sell it in

21:42product like there's people that are

21:43good at painting what you were actually

21:45learning how to paint no oh okay well I

21:48did kind of get bored like I learned how

21:50like got my pilot's license I like I

21:52just started like exploring all these

21:54things but I'm not going to like put in

21:56my 10,000 hours to learn how paint

21:59or come up with some other thing and I'm

22:02certainly not going to be the marketer

22:03marketing marketing to marketers like

22:06there's just too much of that so I saw

22:08the through line of the power of like if

22:11you're really really good at

22:14something like that's there's something

22:16there and I know it at firsthand it's so

22:20hard to scale with a team of people

22:22something so niched if the product isn't

22:25unbelievable so I'm just like for God's

22:28sakes like there's so many people who

22:30are really good at their craft but they

22:33don't have the the sort of business

22:35expertise or like the operations or

22:38anything around them really and I found

22:40this in music too like some of the best

22:43bands I've ever recorded were

22:45nobody's yeah I've noticed this

22:49like the it's the whole like underground

22:53Talent thing right like the person who's

22:56good is often not trying to be famous

22:59that's right they're tinkering or

23:01practicing somewhere like and that's all

23:05they're doing often with the intent not

23:08to be famous either or Rich because that

23:12kind of spoils it right they're just

23:14doing it cuz they love it right and

23:16that's how they get good at it and

23:18they're just good at it but they're not

23:21noticed whereas the people that are like

23:24knowing to be the best at it often are

23:27the best at being known for

23:29right which is not the same as being the

23:30best at it yeah it's like what we're

23:32talking about with LA yeah people just

23:34move here cuz they want to be famous

23:36they don't have to dig down deep and pay

23:38their rent and come up with some

23:40beautiful art form anymore they just

23:42want to be famous and that veneer is

23:44there in this industry I think it's

23:47everywhere not just info like I've heard

23:49like friends that have recording

23:52studios and they said that a lot of the

23:56time the band doesn't even know how to

23:58play

23:59like which sounds insane I was like no

24:01come on I'm laughing because it's just

24:03true yeah he said they barely know how

24:05to play they might play like half the

24:07rof and then he has to like manipulate

24:09it on the computer yeah he said it was

24:12so bad that after a recording session he

24:14would just play the Riff yeah and then

24:17because he didn't want to manipulate the

24:18skies like and he said he had to

24:20deliberately make it sound shitty y just

24:23so that the guy the artist knew that it

24:26wasn't which like I was like how is this

24:29even a band and he was like because they

24:31have an Instagram page right and that's

24:34so if that's what's happened to music

24:35you just have to be famous Y and I guess

24:39you know art like whatever the people

24:42that are called that are signing people

24:44anr people or something yeah although

24:46that industry is kind of dying now too

24:47it seems they're often looking now at

24:50like followers right yeah instead of

24:53like quality or because that's how

24:56you're going to sell records it seems in

24:58spot ify is just looking at followers

25:00cuz that'll probably translate to plays

25:03views and that certainly happened to

25:05business like how many business coaches

25:08are there that don't know anything about

25:11business but that are really good at

25:13social media right

25:16um and how many Financial people just

25:18have like a Lambo instead of actually

25:21understand Finance right yeah I've not

25:25so it's not just info it's like across

25:27the board everywhere this this

25:30fakeness um right but but if you look at

25:34like even in the music industry it it

25:36used to be like there was this pure band

25:39that was really good and record labels

25:42who are the institutional money all that

25:44they did and I'm a huge believer in this

25:46is they just set up environments so

25:48where they could create something really

25:51amazing and they would fund it and write

25:54million dollar text to each member and

25:55just say have fun with it and the idea

25:58was to like create an incubator or petri

26:01dish of experimentation and Brilliant

26:04would come at it and then they'd sort of

26:05throw their money out of it but now it's

26:07like you do record labels they don't

26:11necessarily pay for Studios anymore they

26:13just look for people who have following

26:15so that they can sort of bolt on their

26:17promotion you used to have to be you

26:19used to have to be really good to get

26:21noticed yes to get the opportunity to

26:24make something yep right like and a lot

26:27of people might think oh that's not fair

26:29for everyone and that's kind of true I

26:31guess in some way however now we've got

26:34the opposite problem which is anyone can

26:37produce anything yes right so too many

26:40people make shitty stuff yep and the

26:43incentives AR because you can succeed

26:46without even being good at making it why

26:49would you right yeah I mean like I can't

26:52tell you dude how many times I've

26:55downloaded the 30 tracks that were

26:57uploaded to our website like okay I

26:59wonder what crap we're going to hear

27:00today and I didn't know whether it was

27:03going to get millions of streams or if

27:05it's just a voice memo that they're

27:07going to send their uncle or something

27:09but as technology came into the picture

27:13Talent was extracted out of it in in

27:16other words there was no Talent when as

27:17soon as technology came in now you

27:19obviously have the sort of like outliers

27:22who've utilized it but I just figured

27:26like they have to be better

27:28and I just was so sick of mastering

27:31really crappy music I just wanted to

27:33teach them how to do it yeah I could go

27:36forever on this topic because I've

27:37noticed this has happened across the

27:39board like movies for example right

27:43movies are kind of weird now and I

27:46tracked it back I would look at the top

27:48100 movies on rod and tomatoes by year

27:51right I think the peak like if you look

27:54at the top 100 is pretty

27:58it's not even really debatable that the

27:59peak years were probably like the late

28:01'90s like ' 95 to 2000 right but even

28:05the start of the 2000s are pretty good

28:08and then you notice there's a a certain

28:10decline at about 2007 and I've noticed

28:14this in music in movies in pretty much

28:18everything and then I looked what events

28:20happened in

28:222007 iPhone right social media yep yeah

28:26so like just think about how many many

28:28horrible I hate to be so like blunt with

28:31my language but how many horrible info

28:34businesses are going to come out of this

28:37you know what I mean and like I'm all

28:38for selling information I I obviously

28:41love it but

28:43like yeah I just I had so much

28:46conviction that like you just have to

28:48have a really really good product yeah

28:51good at it you know

28:53the you know that whole concept of like

28:55a um pendulum yeah so it seems like we

29:00were hard jammed on the quality side

29:02right back in the day to the point that

29:05it was probably a bit too much

29:07gatekeeping for talent right right like

29:10you hear about movies and you know it's

29:11very had to be in the Inner Circle same

29:14probably with music to some extent the

29:16internet kind of opened that up but now

29:18it's probably way too far out in this

29:20way absolutely people are writing books

29:22these days with a bot like come on you

29:26don't even write you you don't even ride

29:28anything um so that's how I know we're

29:31pretty far out on that side and people

29:33are there's so much

29:35quantity that people are dying for

29:38Quality right which is what we used to

29:40have there yeah yeah so I

29:43think we could complain about it and

29:46everything which I do all the time by

29:48the way um but I think it's going to

29:51come back I think people are absolutely

29:54craving quality yes and I think that's

29:56where it's going to go for info yes yeah

29:59yeah I want I kind of want to be like on

30:01the the frontiers of that as much as I

30:04can like I live in New York and there's

30:07a studio really famous studio called

30:08Electric Lady

30:09Studios

30:11um I just I have enough credits to call

30:13and just say I'm I'm going to come in

30:15and record I found this unbelievable

30:18artist in New York

30:19unreal I'd like to give you money in

30:22exchange for time please Who's the

30:25artist what's the response and I was so

30:28afraid to send it because she didn't

30:30have any social media and literally just

30:34ghosted me I kind of go in swinging the

30:38next time with somebody who has much

30:40more of a falling but isn't nowhere near

30:41as talented I got a response back like

30:44that response back from who Electric

30:46Lady the studio oh I see like it's the

30:48gatekeeper thing so now now it's like

30:51you can't even get in here unless you

30:52have a million followers it used to be

30:55you can't even get in here unless you're

30:56jimmi Hendricks unless you're really

30:57good I mean started the place but and

31:00now it's done on followers exactly same

31:02with funny man but like think about

31:05where the I mean you know this where the

31:07info thing's

31:08going is God I can't even turn on my

31:11phone I just get inundated with Stuff

31:14ads and maybe we shouldn't complain as

31:16much but it's just like if you if you

31:19pull the thread and find to the core of

31:21what it is I'm sure there's some helpful

31:24stuff but it's leading with marketing

31:27and leading with socials and leading

31:28with following and I reckon if you go

31:31and jump in with cold water and just say

31:33like I've I'm a master at this craft and

31:36I'm going to sell it I think that that

31:38tone is what this kind of infos space

31:42needs I mean this is kind of like what

31:43I'm getting into now it's something I'm

31:46really passionate about because I've

31:47seen it

31:49firsthand

31:52yeah yeah well it's it makes it so easy

31:56to succeed right

31:59because what's interesting is if you're

32:01just good at the faking part and

32:02marketing part you can actually still

32:04succeed right so imagine if there was

32:07some Talent there like you don't have to

32:10be anywhere near as good at the

32:11marketing side right often you just put

32:15something out it's very basic and it

32:16just catches fire because there's some

32:18so much talent there right yeah which is

32:22why I've been telling a lot of people in

32:23info if you're just good at like

32:26marketing it does I'm not really like

32:29mocking you in saying you should like

32:31quit but paer up with someone that is

32:35good at some craft right because I know

32:38also the the challenge with being the

32:40Creator or the talent and also being the

32:43operator and the promoter is that you're

32:45always torn between two sides right

32:47you're like I need to be I need to

32:51practice my craft to get better at it so

32:53that I'm good at helping people with it

32:55right but I need to Market instead and

32:59run my business which means I'm not

33:00practicing in order to actually get

33:02customers right and it's it's a terrible

33:05tradeoff really because you're like do I

33:08get better at the thing that

33:11matters most or do

33:14I make my business better right and the

33:18two are are different right and you

33:21can't really do both at the same time

33:23and it's painful it's like torture when

33:25you kind of think back to the consulting

33:30stuff if you were to put the the buckets

33:32I mean the buckets that we have with the

33:34new business that I have there's

33:35operator subject matter expert subject

33:38matter expert and content creator like

33:39we separate into three different

33:41things right like subject matter expert

33:43I'm the best painter in the world but

33:44I'm not I'm not filming me painting

33:47right then there's the content side of

33:49things where I guess I need to put up a

33:51camera and do this necessary evil and

33:54then it's like I have to run also

33:55business which one

33:58if you could like do it all over or just

34:00like wave a magic one which one did you

34:02think was your or is your sort of secret

34:04sauce is it which one of those three

34:10things well for me the thing that I got

34:13good at was running an info business

34:18right so that was kind of like my talent

34:21that was subject matter expert yeah yeah

34:23which meant that being the business

34:25person was the thing right which was was

34:27helpful however it wasn't the content

34:30thing right so I was always battling

34:33with that like I knew I was good at it

34:36because it was working and I could just

34:38show the numbers right and I could

34:42obviously teach it because I was knew

34:45how to do it but I the content part

34:48always threw me off I didn't want to sit

34:49down and have to like make

34:52content yeah so totally so what I think

34:56is going on now is is you actually have

34:59lots of content

35:00creators and like the VIN diagram for

35:03you was subject matter expert

35:05operator that's kind of where it was and

35:07content creator was kind of over here

35:08and it would kind of get in there and it

35:09was a necessary evil for you it seemed

35:12so in the painter example though would

35:13the content creator be working

35:16collaborating with the painter no okay

35:19so so it's sort of like a spearhead

35:21right like I think in order to run one

35:23of these info businesses at first before

35:26you have a team you kind of have to do

35:28it all so you need to become these three

35:30people in some degree right like until

35:33you can start Outsourcing yeah right so

35:35no I'm I'm referring to like you put on

35:37this hat oh I see what you're saying got

35:39it got it got

35:40it yeah cuz I did know how to put on

35:43that hat but I never F very well yeah

35:48yeah it's a psychopathic mask that you

35:50have to put on right yeah I felt the

35:52same like we grew ming.com to multiple

35:55seven figures and I had like seven

35:57subscribers on YouTube cuz I'm like

36:00that's not

36:01important but now it's this necessary

36:03evil so I reckon if you see more people

36:06who have millions of subscribers and

36:09they're good at like building a Content

36:10creation

36:12machine but like deep down in there

36:15their story there's something that

36:16they're an expert at that's not just

36:17creating content I'm really curious to

36:20see what that is in

36:26people yeah

36:29it's it is painful having to do all

36:31three but you know I've been telling

36:33people like the marketers you should

36:35peer up with a talent person right and

36:37if you're someone that's talented and

36:39you're getting

36:40started you do kind of have to learn all

36:43three right because yes you just got to

36:46get to get started and it w but the cool

36:48thing about getting started is you don't

36:50have that much of a business to run

36:53right so it's not a huge juggle yeah and

36:57um so yeah you've got to be so like

37:00polymath these days to succeed online

37:03yeah right got to make content you got

37:05to understand social media to an extent

37:09you got to be talented at

37:10something and you got to run a

37:13business all at the same time yep and

37:18then yeah you basically just need to do

37:21it yourself until you can hire someone

37:23so we've been talking about all of this

37:25stuff but what what do you want to do

37:29now yeah so when I

37:32sold um the majority share of the

37:35business I knew it was the right thing

37:36to do we had so many people like I gave

37:40everybody profit share and it was like

37:45piranhas just like ate it up and ran

37:47with it and it was the best thing ever

37:50so I think a lot of like operators or

37:53info product owners they're either the

37:54face so they can't exit

37:57and so they need to like Outsource the

38:00content first right but like if you go

38:03through the heavy lifting of like

38:04removing yourself is the

38:06face and you have a team and you like I

38:11don't know give them profit share like

38:13the company will succeed if the

38:14product's good right and like so we had

38:18our best hires internally who had their

38:20own lives transformed by whatever we did

38:23they're still running it they're

38:25crushing and so yeah like that happened

38:29and you know it scaled and I'm like okay

38:33like like my time here is over kind of

38:36like you guys are running this it's

38:38almost it's not the same as like

38:40Consulting to school with you because

38:41I'm not running a SAS business um but

38:45it's like okay like the right thing for

38:47this to grow is for me to sort of exit

38:51as at least the face to build something

38:54that's bigger than myself like you see

38:56even this with like Dave Ramsey he's

38:58turning it to the Ramsey Show instead of

38:59the Dave Ramsey Show like how does Tony

39:02Robbins exit these things are like

39:04things that I think people need to be

39:05thinking about when they start their

39:07business so because I was kind of able

39:09to do that it's just sort of this thing

39:12that's growing

39:13now and once I once I sold the minority

39:16part of it or minority or the majority

39:18share of it um I'm like okay I want to

39:23do the same thing again but faster

39:27with people who are the E experts at

39:30what they do and who they are and like

39:32I'm going to try to piece these all

39:35together right so instead of like

39:37selling some sort of product or info

39:39product to a business person how to

39:42scale your business that's like a coming

39:44in through the building through the back

39:45door like I want to be like are you

39:48really good at

39:50something and if you're not like there's

39:53there's courses for you that but not

39:55here yeah no I think you could see

39:58something similar to what I I could see

40:01like at some point you know if you think

40:04about this

40:05relationship of an artist or a talent P

40:08talented person someone that's good at

40:10something right and then uh someone to

40:13help them run the business side of it

40:15right right it's very similar to the

40:18music industry because you have the

40:20talent which is the artist right but

40:22then they often have a manager yeah and

40:24then they have a record label right

40:27right right

40:29and that there's lots of different

40:32artists that are good at stuff and they

40:34often collaborate and do all sorts of

40:36things together and it's always changing

40:39but a lot of artists started out as the

40:43artist but then they became a manager or

40:48producer or they started their own label

40:51right and they were able to see talent

40:54because they they were the talent

40:56exactly right

40:58and the example I always use is Usher

41:00with Justin Bieber exactly cuz he

41:02spotted him on YouTube when he was just

41:05little kid

41:07singing and he's made more money off of

41:10Bieber than he did off his whole career

41:11right

41:13yeah and there's many many examples of

41:16that and I started to see this happening

41:18in info as well I was like you know

41:21there's these there's the talent right

41:24and then there's

41:25the the the people that do really well

41:28often partner up with someone who runs

41:30the business side right

41:32but there could be room for this other

41:36party to be involved where they're

41:38basically like the producer or the label

41:40right where they have the business side

41:43Talent right and they spot the M the

41:48subject matter Talent Y and they help

41:51publish them yeah yeah and help take

41:54their talent and put it into like a

41:56consumable format and make it a

41:59profitable business yeah and so you want

42:02to play that role now exactly so you

42:04basically just described like the

42:07business model the business I've been

42:08building the last eight nine months and

42:11this is College college with a K with a

42:13K yep so tell us about

42:17that

42:19um well I when I sold I sort of went

42:24through a um identity crisis

42:28like honestly I'm sure lots of people

42:30probably experienced this um so I had to

42:33go through that nonsense the kind of

42:35highs and lows like bought lots of real

42:40estate or and then I learned all this

42:42stupid stuff and whatever like I kind of

42:46did that whole thing and then I tried to

42:48psychopathically like bolt together a

42:50business model and tried all these

42:52different things

42:54and like it wasn't until

42:58recently where I realized that like the

43:01fruit of this or or really what the next

43:03season is is just to be very honestly

43:06just true to who I am and what my story

43:08is just like camping out on that like

43:12subject matter expert really good at

43:14what they do right like getting the

43:16operations piece content like selling

43:20scaling exiting like that's something

43:21that's in my belt now so I sort of had

43:23to take off the music producer hat and

43:26put on the like wait I know how to do

43:28that um which is like a a a process for

43:32me that was harder than I thought you

43:34know harder like more of an identity

43:36thing than it was like an operational

43:38thing so when I started college it was

43:41honestly the next move of mastering so

43:45here was the original idea is like how

43:47do we keep scaling how do we keep

43:48scaling how do we keep scaling well

43:50let's just find

43:51other creative subject matter experts

43:54and like add them to our arsenal of educ

43:58so it was like bringing on somebody to

44:00teach full-time producing how do you

44:01make income and baptizing them in our

44:04company and saying like you're now a

44:05part of us and then like electronic

44:07music and so forth so we we did it in

44:09the niche and it

44:11worked and I found that that was the

44:14thing that I like that was real

44:16producing is getting the people together

44:19and making it happen like I did the same

44:21thing when I scaled with mastering I

44:22partnered with my business partner he's

44:24a total operations guy you know and and

44:27if you're willing to sort of humbly let

44:30go of all these things it can grow

44:32nicely so with all that experience I'm

44:35like this is college college.com is is

44:39this whole wave of

44:41education has to come from the subject

44:44matter experts who are really good at

44:45what they do who actually who actually

44:48have a

44:49transformative skill set that can change

44:51somebody's life they're all over the

44:54place but you have to like go through

44:57all of the minutia and noise of all

45:00these marketers marketing marketing

45:02marketers so I'm like it works in music

45:06let's try it in all these other fields

45:08so now like after lots of refinement and

45:10testing this out with different subject

45:12matter experts I mean we've done like

45:14real estate reverse

45:16mortgages um more music production

45:21video like anything in any everything

45:25and anything in between and it's like

45:27it's all kind of sitting there so now

45:30college is basically like the next

45:33iteration of that so so basically

45:34generally speaking is all I care about

45:37and what I want to do is find this

45:39underground Talent who's really really

45:42good at what they do not just have

45:45people show them what they do or educate

45:48or entertain or any of that stuff but

45:51whether they know it or not they have a

45:53transformative offer and usually they

45:56don't know it

45:57I want to extract that it's kind of a

45:59weird way to put it but I want to like

46:01find out what that is come up with the

46:03best offer and then like pair them up

46:05with operators and so forth so for

46:07literally the past six months we did all

46:10that so we had this big team I think we

46:13talked about this before is had a media

46:15buyer you know sales director all this

46:18and let's just bring this all in house

46:20and like sign the subject matter experts

46:23like a record label would and we did it

46:25but like it breaks down really fast

46:29believe me when you try to like be an

46:31agency for your own subject matter

46:33experts sounds like you were to use the

46:35music analogy you were trying to be the

46:37the label and the manager correct but

46:40the labels don't try to be the managers

46:42right yeah yeah it was a hard lesson a

46:44good lesson in humility but I think my

46:47ego got in the way I I thought that I

46:49had to have all the

46:50answers right but if you kind of like

46:53transcend that a

46:55bit what I do I just the answers are all

46:58like what in my story like I found

46:59people who know how to operate and also

47:02what I found is once you've come from

47:05like a niche where you've been for like

47:0810 years or more and you've mastered it

47:12all the details right you're not used to

47:15coming across problems that you don't

47:17know answers to you know what I mean

47:20right yeah and you're used to being

47:23really good at the thing that you do cuz

47:25you've been doing it for so long and

47:26then when you try to come go through a

47:28creative transformation like this and

47:30you do something new right you don't you

47:34forget that you have to go through this

47:35messy part again where you make a lot of

47:37mistakes and yeah you feel

47:41incompetent I don't I don't know if you

47:43felt that was school oh every day yeah

47:46yeah I feel like I yeah I would love to

47:48hear more but it I I got maybe this is

47:51horrible but I felt like I like I I'm

47:54sort of I'm too old for this or I've

47:56grew up out of this I'm so used to not

47:58doing the stuff I want to do going going

48:00back to the fundamentals and doing the

48:02stuff you don't want to do was really

48:04difficult for me is it

48:08still it's a way for me to yes it's a

48:12way for me to be creative though yeah

48:15see I enjoy what it was like hard

48:18initially because you know ego or just

48:21you're just not used to it like you kind

48:23of forget that you have to start like

48:27from kind of the beginning again

48:30um and it's just frustrating at first

48:34but once you get that feeling of like

48:37mastering something new again it it's an

48:41awesome like a good high comes with that

48:44and then you're like fine again right

48:46yeah but you spend all these years not

48:48doing cuz that's low leverage stuff or

48:51whatever but like it's just like with

48:53music it's sometimes you just got to get

48:55in the room with them pick up the guitar

48:56work it out seems with business what I

48:59found is youve you just it's important

49:02to stay in that

49:04space yeah so if I'm always in that

49:07space then it's never becomes too

49:10like foreign you know what I mean so you

49:14never kind of evolve or graduate out of

49:16that no I think that you're permanently

49:18evolving if you're always in the

49:20uncomfortable zone right the moment you

49:23can you kind of feel confident at it and

49:25everything you should

49:27find that next level yeah yeah when

49:31things get real real comfortable you not

49:34it's a really bad sign yeah well if you

49:37want to have a lifestyle business or

49:38something yeah but B there done

49:41that yeah but like if you get too comfy

49:44it almost is like when is the shoe going

49:45to fall like I got to

49:47be you know that's how mastering got

49:50it's like this is way too comfortable

49:52yeah you

49:54know yeah that's when people get bought

49:58and that's when they do really dumb

50:00stuff nfts and exactly yeah

50:04and yeah that's why people often ask me

50:07they're like how do you just do one

50:09thing all the time and I'm like I'm not

50:11doing one thing right I have one company

50:14but there is a million things in there

50:16and I'm always working on something new

50:18that's exciting to me and I'm always

50:20challenged I don't need to find

50:22another thing it just depends at what

50:25level you're like

50:27you can do one thing that gives you

50:30infinite new things inside of it but

50:32you're still doing one thing right yeah

50:35which It's Kind it's kind of by the

50:37design like school is naturally like a

50:39platform for like

50:41every yeah right so I can never really

50:43get bored um and then it sounds like

50:47you're doing something similar now with

50:49college yeah yeah yeah exactly because

50:53then you've got all this different

50:55subjects so it's hard for you to get

50:57bored cuz you're not pigeon ho hold into

51:00just mastering or something yeah that's

51:01right like to exit the subject matter

51:04expert role in mastering all I needed to

51:06do was like Mentor coach and train a

51:08couple people and like what I need to do

51:10challenging for sure but like what's the

51:12next challenge what's the next challenge

51:14with this it's like I could learn how to

51:17be a good painter a good Furniture maker

51:19a good

51:20whatever or I could like find them

51:23that's a fun that's fun yeah that's

51:26really fun so that's that's kind of what

51:28I'm doing now yeah is building that out

51:32trying to be the really the the the

51:34record label if you will for this

51:35underground talent and then pair them

51:38with operators content creators and just

51:40like get the incubator that's like what

51:42our thing called incubate College

51:44incubator nice yeah because that's what

51:47it

51:48is it's like it's like if you're making

51:51a record it what like rent out a house

51:54put a console in there lock the doors

51:57and have them go you got to set up the

52:00environment yeah it's funny too because

52:02my info business ran best when it was

52:04about the size of a

52:06band right like I tried to scale it up

52:10big and then you know wasn't that great

52:14it was when it was about five people

52:16right and it was when we were running it

52:18like a band we were very close with each

52:20other we had complimentary talents right

52:23and you know there's a few key players

52:25in there I guess like a bass a

52:29guitar but it's like you've got two two

52:33reps you've got someone doing operations

52:36right and you've got someone doing

52:38community management and support and

52:41then you've got the the talent or the

52:43Creator right yeah right and you can do

52:46a lot with that you can do five six 7 m

52:50year just with that little band yeah for

52:52sure yeah we were talking about this

52:54before is we had a team

52:57it wasn't 33 full-time W2 employees but

53:00like a mix of contractors people on Etc

53:03same like here are the core people

53:07there's a ven diagram of complimentary

53:09skill sets and if you compensate them

53:13not on profit share they will always

53:15remain like not cross functional the

53:18vend diagram will be very static but as

53:20soon as they gave them profit share

53:22there it was fluid you know that do you

53:24ever watch that Metallica documentary

53:27called some kind of monster yeah yeah

53:30there's this part in there where they're

53:32looking for a bass player right yeah

53:34they try out all these people yeah they

53:35try them out and there's one guy who's

53:37just going hard and he's like it's so

53:40obvious that he fits in Robert whatever

53:42is name was I think true true I'm going

53:44to botch this long hair ponytail he's

53:47like really down ground yeah he was and

53:49he played with his fingers yeah and then

53:51when they gave him the offer like to

53:53join the band they were like we're going

53:56to just give you a milk straight up yeah

53:59like and this guy they definitely didn't

54:01need to give the guy a milk right cuz

54:03he's like crying like this is so intense

54:06he would have just loved to play yeah

54:09but they say the reason and they even

54:11told him the reason why we're doing this

54:12is you're one of us yeah you need to

54:15really be one of us like you need to

54:18feel like one of us and be on the same

54:20kind of yeah yeah because when you're a

54:23band you can't produce no yeah unless

54:27everyone feels involved yeah I love that

54:31he's amazing that bass player yeah I

54:34mean there's this guy in our company

54:37who he was a student he quit his job on

54:41Wall Street to join our program changed

54:44his life you know and when we were like

54:48hiring he just kept hitting refresh you

54:50know did I get the job because cuz he

54:52wanted to hang and be with us and he

54:55kills it he's crushing it he's he's the

54:56GM of the company nice I basically he

54:59runs into music yes

55:02yeah yeah he's making so much money on

55:05Wall Street that he like quit his job

55:08and like joined this well he wants to

55:09apply his he obviously had a a craving

55:13for music exactly but his work was just

55:16Finance

55:17right then he saw an opportunity to

55:20merge both like how can I use finance

55:23and music together that's what I think

55:25the world's going through or about to go

55:28through is the with the internet and

55:32info and courses and all the stuff is

55:35you're finally going to be able to find

55:37your little Zone where you get to mix

55:41your play and your work in one kind of

55:46thing yeah like that guy how how do I

55:48get to use my finance knowledge and my

55:52passion for music right and work with

55:54other people that are like that too yeah

55:58yeah it's powerful people will quit

55:59their jobs to do that they won't even

56:02like this the bass player he didn't need

56:04a million bucks you just want to play

56:06Metallica but that's what these courses

56:08are teaching people how to do and that's

56:10also going to work at one of these

56:12course businesses right it's going to be

56:14like that too it's pretty cool yeah when

56:17we experimented with like who are these

56:19operators for the business like I just

56:21thought so hard about

56:24this it's the people in their list or

56:26the people who've been transformed by

56:27their program like start there people

56:30whose lives have been transformed by you

56:33some of the best employees best

56:35operators yeah without question like we

56:38again 33 people we've four four Dudes

56:42now they've had their freaking lives

56:44transformed they'll yeah you know what I

56:46mean like they'll bleed for it they love

56:48it they just want to be a part of

56:50it that's definitely true in the end

56:53with consulting.com that's who we we

56:55were left with

56:56yeah the remnant people that had been

56:59like customers or had been involved

57:03right

57:04like and actively tried to like get a

57:08job even when there wasn't really right

57:10yeah oh yeah like there's people who

57:12will pass the personality test and you

57:15have to look at all that for sure but

57:18like if they if they've had their lives

57:20transformed by your program and they're

57:21kicking down the doors like all of those

57:23other skills you can teach them m

57:27for sure yeah this is pretty cool

57:31because or just what I'm seeing with

57:33like this industry info courses whatever

57:36you want to call it

57:38but it's starting to look like it's

57:41going mainstream first of all right

57:43which is pretty cool to see and there's

57:46so much room for everyone because it's

57:49there's every skill imaginable right and

57:52then there's two sides to it you can be

57:54on the business side right or on the

57:56talent side right and both are like

57:59equally as important yeah for sure and

58:01then there's going to be organizers and

58:03curators like college right right the

58:06labels basically yeah for sure playing

58:08their role yeah and then the platforms

58:11and like a whole ecosystem a whole

58:14universe of stuff

58:17um it's pretty exciting yeah it's and a

58:20lot of it's going to be hosted on school

58:22obviously cuz you've got these

58:24compartmentalized companies like kajabi

58:26Facebook and all this but like unless

58:30everybody gets into bed with one another

58:31like there isn't going to be much

58:33progress it's kind of

58:35like um I think I mentioned this on one

58:38of other call with you is

58:40um with like one of our free school

58:43groups it's you go you get the subject

58:45matter experts and their clients in the

58:47group

58:48together that's a really good way to

58:50facilitate growth you know well it's

58:54interesting what you say there like we

58:55need to collaborate to make this

58:56industry function have to like I thought

58:59about that a long time ago

59:01like everyone's paying like Facebook

59:04right and Google ads and producing all

59:08of this content and everything like

59:10they're going to so much effort and pain

59:13to get customers when everyone has the

59:16customers yeah and not everyone it's not

59:20as competitive as I think everyone

59:22thinks like someone's journey and info

59:25they buy from pretty much like everyone

59:28not everyone but they're going to they

59:29don't just buy from one person and then

59:31it's their whole life solved you know

59:33what I

59:34mean and there's no need to try to like

59:37say this is all you need or and what and

59:41I definitely have being guilty of like

59:42thinking it it was like that I don't

59:45know why um but then if you look at

59:49music it's very collaborative there's a

59:51lot of mixing

59:53involved and then if you look at

59:57um I then I noticed like Joe Rogan and

1:00:01his podcast and it was like the most

1:00:04popular podcast

1:00:07ever and yet he is never just talking

1:00:12about himself he's actually interviewing

1:00:13other people right and he's encouraging

1:00:17them to start a podcast a lot of them

1:00:19right and a lot of them do and it

1:00:22doesn't take away from his it actually

1:00:24just makes his more powerful in a way

1:00:27right oh yeah so I started to think why

1:00:31doesn't the info

1:00:33industry run like this why do you think

1:00:35it doesn't I mean it's painful what is

1:00:40opening up your doors and saying that

1:00:42you don't have a monopoly on

1:00:45information like I I was a like

1:00:48genuinely afraid scared to death of like

1:00:53letting people in sort to speak on like

1:00:55my craft

1:00:56it's like my whole identity it's my

1:00:59secrets it's the way that I

1:01:01monetize and like if I teach you how to

1:01:03do it then like I'm out of a

1:01:06job and then you can kind of make the

1:01:08mental gymnastics and go well I'll

1:01:09charge you a lot for it so then I'll

1:01:11justify it that's fine right but like if

1:01:15you genuinely do that those people have

1:01:18their own engine behind them and if they

1:01:21apply your skill set they're going to

1:01:22have so much more success you know what

1:01:24I mean instead of just you doing the

1:01:26work and doing this so like the best way

1:01:28to grow your info product business or

1:01:30like in this info product space is to

1:01:33collaborate you don't have a monopoly on

1:01:35this

1:01:35information if everybody has multiple

1:01:38programs and everybody's already picking

1:01:40and choosing from them for God's sakes

1:01:42like let's take off the walls and like

1:01:44try to help each other out you know like

1:01:47that's what we found with mastering is

1:01:48we license we license stuff you know

1:01:52it's let's you've got your own coaching

1:01:55business that's fine that's cool but

1:01:57like let's let's bring everybody

1:01:59together I just think a lot of ego gets

1:02:01in away probably or a lot of

1:02:04fear like I I would genuinely

1:02:07love if somebody's got sales dialed in

1:02:10like Cole or somebody or Brian with ads

1:02:12or

1:02:14whatever like I I wish the best for all

1:02:16those guys for sure um but like in a

1:02:19certain sense we're all on the same team

1:02:22and we need to learn how to collaborate

1:02:24and I think we have to be with this I

1:02:27don't think that you have to just stick

1:02:28in like I sell a course I sell a course

1:02:30I sell a course that's going to get

1:02:34old yeah well I've had I've gone through

1:02:36this like this year I've been I didn't

1:02:38really do any collaborations right and

1:02:41then I started doing a lot of them and

1:02:43so far it's been like really

1:02:46good yeah

1:02:48same yeah but like why do you why were

1:02:51you so skittish about it I have my

1:02:52reasons but

1:02:56well one was that paid ads was our

1:02:59primary traffic Source right so

1:03:03customers came from ads that was the

1:03:04mentality right right and so for one I

1:03:07just thought well what's the point I I

1:03:10could just pay for it and I don't have

1:03:11to like build a relationship or do any

1:03:14of that stuff right how how dare you

1:03:16would ever want to build a relationship

1:03:17with somebody well I'm like introverted

1:03:19and so it seemed easier to me to just

1:03:22look at all the numbers and everything

1:03:24and buy it um

1:03:26but then you know with time ads were

1:03:31just so such a pain in the

1:03:33ass and then I started seeing that

1:03:35organic was a way better option and then

1:03:38then I changed my mindset at some point

1:03:40I just said no more ads like it was the

1:03:42end of last year right and I just we

1:03:45just turned off our ads and we're like

1:03:46it's kind of like cutting your rope if

1:03:48you're rock climbing right it's like

1:03:50well let's just

1:03:51see and I figured that it would kind of

1:03:54be like cutting your rope you would try

1:03:55hard not to fall right if you knew to

1:03:57never WR so when we took the ads away we

1:04:00had to think how are we going to get the

1:04:02traffic and so we thought of like

1:04:05YouTube email and then Partnerships

1:04:08right and we had the time to invest in

1:04:11them because we didn't we we weren't

1:04:13running ads and then it just really

1:04:16forced me to think about like well what

1:04:20is my place in this ecosystem and I

1:04:23think that's what you've got to do first

1:04:24you've got to be like this is is the

1:04:26thing that I'm going to do and then I'm

1:04:28obviously not going to be as good as

1:04:30like Cole with sales or Brian at YouTube

1:04:33ads so let's just collaborate there

1:04:37because I can't learn that and if I did

1:04:39it would be stupid cuz I would sacrifice

1:04:41something else yep but I think

1:04:45that's so to kind to answer your

1:04:48question I think people haven't

1:04:50identified their true Zone yes first of

1:04:53all and then there's just this depend

1:04:56on on Advertising yes so really the

1:05:00platforms are suing out all of this

1:05:02money when it could just be paid out to

1:05:04the other creators yeah right yeah like

1:05:08you could set up really good

1:05:09compensation to the for the creators and

1:05:11operators and people selling information

1:05:14like joint ventures are like the lowest

1:05:16hanging fruit of doing that you know but

1:05:18if you're if you're using paid ads

1:05:21you're not building your business You're

1:05:22Building Facebook's business M like at

1:05:24the very least you're building a great

1:05:26audience um or an audience maybe not the

1:05:28greatest

1:05:30audience yeah but what do you think it

1:05:32looks like I I I mean the experience

1:05:34that we've had is is just like everybody

1:05:39has

1:05:40lists like let's share clients and come

1:05:43up with like paying each other as

1:05:45opposed I mean it really it's just

1:05:46customer acquisition cost how much was I

1:05:48paying Facebook to acquire a customer

1:05:511,000 to 15500 bucks and on really

1:05:54really bad really bad bad days three

1:05:57grand M okay now I got to fix the whole

1:05:59funnel and do all

1:06:00this well like a JV or organic whatever

1:06:04like the CAC res cost is zero and if

1:06:07we're all selling similar information or

1:06:09somebody's got a different piece of the

1:06:10elephant but we're on the elephant yeah

1:06:13there's a way to like break down those

1:06:15walls ignore ads have each other

1:06:18collaborate with each other have each

1:06:19other on each other's podcast stuff like

1:06:21that you can set up creative payouts and

1:06:24if you have a platform that can like pay

1:06:25those things out it's just going to

1:06:27incentivize that

1:06:29more yeah now this is really important

1:06:32the thing we're talking about

1:06:34collaboration because that's why I

1:06:36decided moving forward I'm not even

1:06:38going to make any content where it's

1:06:40just Sam ens being right expert on

1:06:42everything right um it's going to be

1:06:45other people right and I'm going to

1:06:48build everyone else up yeah right

1:06:51and that there's a whole like that works

1:06:55in fact that's actually been proven to

1:06:57be like the best strategy for content if

1:06:59you if you look online

1:07:03so yeah I think what everyone needs to

1:07:05do is think for their customers in their

1:07:08Market what are all the parts of the

1:07:11puzzle

1:07:13that the customers need to achieve

1:07:16success right right because some people

1:07:19might just be teaching like copywriting

1:07:22some people might be teaching accounting

1:07:24some people might be teaching sales

1:07:26none of those things work on their own

1:07:29someone's trying to pull together some

1:07:31kind of model right and they need the

1:07:35whole model to achieve the the outcome

1:07:39yeah right so figure out who you believe

1:07:41is best and who is also compatible right

1:07:45because some strategies aren't

1:07:46compatible with others and then or like

1:07:50find your basically your people or your

1:07:52friends and then become friend with them

1:07:56yeah and then help each other out and

1:07:59then you basically don't need to use ads

1:08:01anymore yeah yeah but like there's

1:08:04there's a trouble with that though man

1:08:05cuz if you think of the sort of subject

1:08:09matter

1:08:10expert info product business owner

1:08:12person like the way forward is just I'm

1:08:15an expert cool I joined up level

1:08:18whatever cool I now know kind of how to

1:08:20do that what are the things are they

1:08:21thinking well I can scale this now I

1:08:23need a sales team okay and I'm going to

1:08:25go like apply this sales team thing from

1:08:28another course okay I need ads I'm going

1:08:30to get an agency I need to learn

1:08:32copyrighting okay you're just buying

1:08:34courses M they and bolting them onto

1:08:37your business but at the end of the day

1:08:39fundamentally all you're doing is just

1:08:42like scaling and building a business by

1:08:44exchanging money for

1:08:46information that's great but lots of

1:08:48people like don't have the wherewithal

1:08:50to know that that's how you succeed in

1:08:52this business well that that would works

1:08:56but it absolutely is not going to work

1:08:59for the majority of the market no

1:09:01because it just requires way too much

1:09:03effort right like that's too much like

1:09:06yeah the things you've got to do right

1:09:08now to be a successful like seven figure

1:09:11info business it's too it's crazy really

1:09:16so it works but you're right like it

1:09:20isn't the way that this Market is going

1:09:23to get huge no not at all but I think

1:09:26that it's going to end up being like

1:09:27again you'll have more operators and

1:09:29marketers selling their copyrighting

1:09:33course what do you mean well think about

1:09:35it like the people who have the DNA or

1:09:38sort of the intuition to know that

1:09:39that's the way to scale this they're a

1:09:42certain breed of person generally

1:09:45speaking they're not artistic this is

1:09:47like a huge blanket statement but

1:09:48they're not artistic they're not

1:09:50creative enough and they generally

1:09:52speaking are focusing on business and

1:09:54operations

1:09:56right so like their offer the core

1:09:58fundamental skill set that they have as

1:10:00they're acquiring all this information

1:10:01and scaling I question that not that

1:10:04it's no good or anything but like again

1:10:08you're just going to have a rise up of

1:10:09like this really really really

1:10:11successful person who decided to create

1:10:14like a copywriting offer and like bolted

1:10:16onto the info product Market you know

1:10:19yeah well that person should partner

1:10:20with some right exactly that's my point

1:10:23though is like if all these people

1:10:25siloed they're just going to build their

1:10:28own little siloed businesses where we're

1:10:30all bolting on different things to our

1:10:33business like seriously like that person

1:10:37if if they're actually really good at

1:10:39copyrighting and they they will I think

1:10:41this is like stage one right now you've

1:10:43got all of these Silo skill set courses

1:10:47but not even their Co cooperating with

1:10:49each other no so like you know a good

1:10:52first step for everyone to unhook from

1:10:54ads would be like like get these people

1:10:57to cooperate and then that drives

1:10:59industry for even more but then there

1:11:01could be these really strong operators

1:11:04that are just selling strong operating

1:11:07coures if they found some Talent yeah

1:11:11they could go even further so again the

1:11:13answer is like collaboration um yeah and

1:11:16then there's space for these organizers

1:11:19and curators right like what you're

1:11:22doing the first label you're going to

1:11:25make one of the first yeah info record

1:11:28labels we the info product like record

1:11:30label yeah but but it's hard right

1:11:33because like I'm not interested in just

1:11:37selling stuff I want to find those

1:11:39people who are really really good at

1:11:40what they

1:11:41do like that's the ingredient that's

1:11:43missing from all of these different

1:11:45offers 100% but it's funny when I was

1:11:47thinking about this what role does

1:11:49School play in there if we're mapping it

1:11:51if we trying to say it's like the music

1:11:53industry what is school

1:11:57I thought about that too cuz I thought

1:11:59like how can school and college

1:12:02like kind of like vinyl or

1:12:05CD it's how you distribute the the

1:12:08content yeah so you know a label still

1:12:10needs

1:12:12vinyl but it needs music to write onto

1:12:15it do you know what I mean but yeah yeah

1:12:17yeah so that's where I see school's role

1:12:19in it is just

1:12:21the the delivery mechanism yeah

1:12:25got it yeah so

1:12:28information is

1:12:30music and school is the CD or vinyl or

1:12:38whatever yeah and now and there's room

1:12:42for managers right and

1:12:46labels right but these managers and

1:12:48labels aren't really even in the picture

1:12:50right now right I would say What's

1:12:51missing is managers labels and

1:12:56collaboration right because in music you

1:12:59know musicians don't think competitively

1:13:03right when you're trying to make a good

1:13:05song you're not in there worrying about

1:13:07the other guy no which if someone was

1:13:11making music that way it would be music

1:13:13would be no good terrible yeah which is

1:13:16probably why a lot of mus a lot of this

1:13:17info is terrible

1:13:20yeah

1:13:22um it's way more like music than people

1:13:24think right and way less like selling

1:13:29grain than people think right yeah right

1:13:32cuz in selling grain it's a homogeneous

1:13:34thing it's the same it's like the thing

1:13:36I get is a piece of grain so if someone

1:13:38else sells it or if you sell it it's up

1:13:41to the other parts like how are you

1:13:43going to distribute it how cheap is it

1:13:46how popular are you right but right info

1:13:49isn't like that it's more like

1:13:51music and music's very personal to the

1:13:54artist

1:13:56right that's what makes music different

1:13:58and why machines can't Mass produce it

1:14:00right it's very personal kind of from

1:14:04the person's soul yeah which is what

1:14:06good info businesses are like yes yeah

1:14:09which is why I tell like the winner is

1:14:12never going to be someone who rips

1:14:15someone off is never going to be the

1:14:16best at that that never work I've been

1:14:19ripped off a million times I never

1:14:20worried at all because I just knew that

1:14:22that person didn't it yep and they

1:14:27wouldn't last yep and it did always went

1:14:30the same way oh yeah no we literally had

1:14:33trademark files you know sealing all of

1:14:36our stuff it just never worried me yeah

1:14:39I just knew that the I just knew it was

1:14:41really really good but not because well

1:14:43imagine to use the music example imagine

1:14:45like Le Zeppelin and then another band

1:14:48comes up gav Van fleet called lead

1:14:51Zeppelin like two yeah that's and it's

1:14:54they're Lally trying to copy their music

1:14:56and they're not quite as good that's

1:14:58great of Van Fleet oh is it how did they

1:15:01go they're still going but it's Le

1:15:06Zeppelin and I can't listen to it you

1:15:10know like you can be inspired by

1:15:11Zeppelin but they literally sound the

1:15:13same oh they but they playing different

1:15:16songs yeah they're playing I'm talking

1:15:17about imagine if someone play the exact

1:15:20same songs okay yeah like who's going to

1:15:23go listen to no shitty a

1:15:28zeel that's how it works in info it's

1:15:30the exact same way people go to the

1:15:33source they might start on shitty aspl

1:15:35but they're like oh this is a

1:15:38knockoff of that and they like oh my God

1:15:41what is this right so that's how I

1:15:44started learning

1:15:46like you don't need to worry about the

1:15:48competition stuff you just need to find

1:15:50the people that make the the model

1:15:55that are as passionate about the other

1:15:57parts as you are about yours which in my

1:15:59case that was like M Carter withth

1:16:01YouTube ads guy loves it Cole Gordon

1:16:04with SS closes loves it yep both of them

1:16:08did it which is how I knew yes too that

1:16:12they loved it and why they were so good

1:16:14at it yep um and completed the picture

1:16:20so where were we with all this what

1:16:23tangent were we going on well I I

1:16:25actually think what's curious about all

1:16:26this is like what is school and then how

1:16:28can it all be pieced together right so

1:16:30you have think about it this way like

1:16:33you've got master class this has been

1:16:36this has been a conversation in college

1:16:39it's like what is college what's the

1:16:40name of that it's really an idea of like

1:16:42disrupting the academic

1:16:45system think about it though like you

1:16:48have master

1:16:49class

1:16:51which technically grabs people who are

1:16:55the best in the

1:16:56business but the platform or the way

1:16:59that it's delivering the content or

1:17:01information is centered around this this

1:17:04I mean the business model right is

1:17:05yearly recurring Revenue but it's

1:17:07centered around like you're going to

1:17:08learn this you're going to learn this

1:17:09you're going to learn this and it's not

1:17:12centered around at the end of this

1:17:13you'll become this at the end of this

1:17:15you'll become this at the end of this

1:17:16you'll become this so they're not

1:17:17transforming everybody's life it's I

1:17:20would go so far to say it's like an

1:17:21entertainment company oh 100% you know

1:17:25but you've got masters of their

1:17:27craft and it's like I'm going to I'm

1:17:29going to chop off a piece of your

1:17:30identity which isn't actually your

1:17:32identity and I'm going to sell you like

1:17:34an interesting course on that has really

1:17:36fancy cameras and stuff like that's not

1:17:41education like it's just like

1:17:42universities it's the professors have

1:17:45never actually done the thing that

1:17:47they're teaching so like the thing that

1:17:49I'm passionate about with with college

1:17:50and the thing about school is

1:17:52like what if you actually sold

1:17:55transformation and the only way to do

1:17:56that is to find people who have done it

1:17:59oh

1:18:00100% yeah no I think it's really going

1:18:04back to my

1:18:06favorite period of History which is like

1:18:09the Renaissance right and in the

1:18:13Renaissance like first of all do you see

1:18:16the things that came out of it and

1:18:17they're amazing right like there's so

1:18:19much color and the creativity is crazy

1:18:23and the craftsmanship is crazy

1:18:25and in that time there was no like

1:18:28institions like if you wanted to learn

1:18:30how to paint you would become an

1:18:32apprentice yep if you wanted to become a

1:18:34sculptor you become an apprentice yep if

1:18:37you wanted to make shoes right you chose

1:18:40what you wanted to do a lot of the time

1:18:42you didn't cuz it was your family but

1:18:44anyway um you learned by doing and you

1:18:48chose who to learn from by how good they

1:18:51were at doing it Y which sounds so

1:18:54simple it's insane to think that we

1:18:56drifted from that

1:18:58but that worked really well right you

1:19:01get Leonardo D viny you get Michelangelo

1:19:05you get like all of the best like works

1:19:08out of that period right and the period

1:19:11before that was the Dark Ages where it

1:19:15was controlled by priests and they told

1:19:20you what you had to do right and they

1:19:23had a scripture

1:19:25right so it was scripture and it was

1:19:27authority figure and it was do this or

1:19:30die basically and if you say anything

1:19:33else like

1:19:35that's heresy and you're out yeah right

1:19:38yeah or they would kill you right um

1:19:41that we've gone back to the Dark Ages

1:19:45except the priest people are the uh

1:19:47influencers or the professors at the

1:19:50universities and right and they've

1:19:54got their scripture it's their books and

1:19:56it's all of that and you know they're

1:20:00very protective of it all right and

1:20:02there is no collaboration and everyone's

1:20:04trying to trying to like say that you're

1:20:08wrong or you can't say so it's kind of

1:20:10gone back to that but I think we're

1:20:12going back to the to the other period um

1:20:17to and a Modern Renaissance where

1:20:20there's a lot of collaboration and

1:20:21people learn from those that do yes

1:20:25and

1:20:26then that and that can be so well

1:20:30distributed across everything because

1:20:32there's so many things that people can

1:20:35do right but there's only so many

1:20:39like institutions that can be formed

1:20:42that control information so like one can

1:20:46the distributed model enables like

1:20:47basically anyone to rise to the top just

1:20:51by being good at their

1:20:52craft and it also enables anyone who's

1:20:55passionate to learn right so it's very

1:20:58fair and I think that's what we're going

1:21:01to yeah but you like you got to think

1:21:04about how do you do you then curate the

1:21:08quality of the information on school

1:21:10because that's the only way that

1:21:12institutions institutionalized and had

1:21:15some sort of reputable you know face in

1:21:18the market it's like Harvard Yale then

1:21:21you have Berkeley and then you have

1:21:22University of Phoenix Etc that's not

1:21:24really what school's like school's more

1:21:26like the book you know what I mean like

1:21:29you can put anything in the book do you

1:21:32know so but like the the the struggle

1:21:35with that is you'll have many

1:21:37universities within school oh yeah

1:21:40there'll be lots of there'll be lots of

1:21:43like teachers right that aren't very

1:21:46good yep is that what you're getting at

1:21:48yeah yeah that's natural though right

1:21:51that's normal too I'm sure in the

1:21:53Renaissance period there were painters

1:21:56that weren't very good right but they

1:21:59probably didn't get many

1:22:01customers and they probably eventually

1:22:04faded away yeah right right so provided

1:22:07that happens provided natural selection

1:22:10plays out in the ecosystem right then

1:22:14that's just

1:22:15normal anyone should be able to try

1:22:17something but only the the people that

1:22:21deserve to win should win yeah but right

1:22:23now with that is is not how things are

1:22:25distributed yeah so it's interesting

1:22:28we're kind of you and I are kind of on

1:22:30two different sides of the same coin as

1:22:32you're sort of Shifting you're not

1:22:33shifting out of info you're still

1:22:35dramatically in it but what you're doing

1:22:37is instead of making the music that fits

1:22:40on to the vinyl you've gone like I'm

1:22:43going to be of the vinyl yeah and so

1:22:47that's hard though what for me it must

1:22:50be oh yeah definitely yeah yeah the same

1:22:54time no

1:22:56because I'm also very close to it it

1:22:59just isn't the exact thing I've been

1:23:01doing right so I've been in the info

1:23:03industry for 10 years I love it I know a

1:23:06lot about it and I know a lot of other

1:23:08people in it and I've observed the kind

1:23:10of waves it's gone through over

1:23:12time but I'm just shifting to a

1:23:15different part of the ecosystem yeah

1:23:18yeah but like same I've been in the

1:23:22infos space but I've seen that the

1:23:24the goal or should I say the gold of the

1:23:28infos space the stuff that's

1:23:31Timeless um is the really really really

1:23:34really good subject matter experts like

1:23:37producing the good music right so like

1:23:40I'm looking at this going like okay I'm

1:23:41going to shift a million miles in the

1:23:43other

1:23:44direction and like find these experts

1:23:47who are really good at what they do

1:23:49baptize them and basically say you're

1:23:51now a university like the premier

1:23:53education facility right and then bolted

1:23:57on to school and basically like this is

1:23:59my vinyl this is me Distributing it like

1:24:01I have I have no interest in like

1:24:02putting really horrible Music On Vinyl

1:24:06oh yeah it's slightly different for for

1:24:08you yeah I'm like over on the other

1:24:10finyl doesn't have much of a choice and

1:24:12what gets put on finyl that's what I'm

1:24:14saying is you you've created for 10

1:24:16years you've created really good music

1:24:19and you put it on to vinyl or you put it

1:24:21on to CDs and you go okay well vinyl is

1:24:23better than CDs so I'm going to stop

1:24:25sort of creating music and be the vinyl

1:24:29and like just create the best vinyl and

1:24:31because you know that space really well

1:24:32you know you know what the vinyl needs

1:24:35to do in order to facilitate this that

1:24:38seems to be what's happening the thing

1:24:40that I'm kind of interested or curious

1:24:41about is I'm shifting into this world

1:24:43going if vinyl is going to be the way

1:24:46that we sell

1:24:48information then like we better make the

1:24:51music really really really good so that

1:24:53it fits with vinyl you know what I mean

1:24:55oh yeah well the way I'm designing

1:24:57modern vinyl which is school um is I

1:25:00have a little bit more things to play

1:25:01with than just traditional vinyl right I

1:25:04can kind of play with the mechanics that

1:25:08help

1:25:10quality

1:25:12info grow yeah right so I can tweak the

1:25:16system to make sure like that the right

1:25:18stuff

1:25:19is I'm curious about that yeah like you

1:25:23gotta say more about that cuz I'm I'm

1:25:25again I'm curious about tweaking this

1:25:28stuff to make only the right stuff yeah

1:25:30well I'm basically trying to make a

1:25:33platform that rewards what you're trying

1:25:36to do and I'm trying to make stuff that

1:25:40collaborates with the

1:25:42vinyl yeah you know what I mean yeah

1:25:45it's just a fear ecosystem right like I

1:25:48think it's silly that okay this is kind

1:25:50of how I arrived at this but as an info

1:25:53business owner

1:25:55if the market if the market was fully

1:25:59efficient then the best person at doing

1:26:02it would make the most money right but

1:26:05that isn't how it is it's quite the

1:26:07opposite actually it's the person that's

1:26:09best at basically bullshitting that can

1:26:12make the most money right and they often

1:26:15circuit it right

1:26:18so

1:26:20basically it's very inefficient it's

1:26:23back the front it's like up side down

1:26:24completely yeah so you know really the

1:26:28other thing I noticed is that if you've

1:26:30got an info business naturally it Mak

1:26:32sense that you should spend most of your

1:26:34time helping your customers yes and

1:26:37getting better at your craft yep but

1:26:39that isn't what it is it's like you

1:26:41should be doing marketing content right

1:26:43yeah because the info product space only

1:26:45rewards marketing and content which

1:26:47sucks which makes no sense right so with

1:26:51school I'm kind of focusing on this side

1:26:55so it's like the the people and the

1:27:00content right right and really I'm

1:27:03trying to even remove content out of it

1:27:05for the most part to just make it more

1:27:07pure so that it's actually like a

1:27:09community and events and things like

1:27:12this so that it really brings to the

1:27:15surface the talent level of the person

1:27:17running it

1:27:19right

1:27:21so that's like where I'm focusing but

1:27:25longer term we'll be able to basically

1:27:29help those people get more

1:27:32reach yeah but yes the good ones the

1:27:36good ones see that's again I want to

1:27:38like double down on that

1:27:42because well how far because there's I

1:27:46don't want to share all of what we're

1:27:48going to do like strategically but no I

1:27:51don't I don't care at all about how do

1:27:54you scale a vinyl

1:27:57business but mus how do you me your

1:28:00quality yeah how do you measure quality

1:28:03of the information going on the vinyl at

1:28:05some point this analogy will break down

1:28:08but but like I just know at this from

1:28:11the music perspective music was made

1:28:15regardless of how it was delivered to

1:28:16people right at first you just created

1:28:19Music and then you played it and the way

1:28:21that you delivered it was people would

1:28:23sit and listen done for

1:28:25you right how do you get this out to the

1:28:29masses

1:28:31Information Services to product it's the

1:28:33same thing you need something to put

1:28:35that

1:28:36on right MP3s wave files right

1:28:40CDs this did not become an agnostic

1:28:44piece of information to deliver the

1:28:46value this pushed back on the music and

1:28:50said in order to fit into this

1:28:52distribution model you must change how

1:28:54you write your music oh yeah I see what

1:28:56you're saying you see yeah that happened

1:28:59and when I was mastering literally when

1:29:01vinyl came into the picture again I

1:29:04literally had to change how I mastered

1:29:06to fit this which then in turn pushed

1:29:09back on the artists going I'm only going

1:29:12to write music for vinyl literally they

1:29:14had like music that was really good for

1:29:16CDs and then really good for vinyl this

1:29:19album was made because it's going to go

1:29:21on vinyl so you you can't say like on

1:29:24building this like actually you're not

1:29:26saying that you're building this pure

1:29:28vinyl thing but it will have an

1:29:30influence on the thing going into it so

1:29:33how do you how do you is there a line

1:29:35that you can't cross to to dictate what

1:29:37happens

1:29:40here well I mean it's not about it's

1:29:44about what makes sense right if we

1:29:46dictate the wrong well if we even

1:29:49dictate things then people probably

1:29:50won't use it right so you it's more

1:29:53about incentives right so yeah who do

1:29:57you give the incentives to right so it's

1:30:00kind of open for everyone but who's

1:30:02going to get the benefits from using it

1:30:04right um and I think you want to know

1:30:08like my preferences for info or

1:30:10something I'm more curious as to again

1:30:13I'm thinking on the other side of the

1:30:15coin so you want to know what would I um

1:30:19incentivize like I'm over here doing

1:30:21this with or without school yeah right

1:30:24and like but I'm looking at school going

1:30:27this is going to dictate what works in

1:30:29the industry and it's usually some

1:30:31element of these things right like

1:30:32collaboration Community content right

1:30:35and then coaching calls like that's

1:30:36basically the three pillars of of this

1:30:39info product space yeah you know it's

1:30:41Mastermind the same selling a course is

1:30:43the same same

1:30:45ingredients it's going to

1:30:47be way more about the people which is

1:30:50the community right and then

1:30:54I think the model that makes more sense

1:30:56is the kind of Mastermind model where

1:30:59there's recurring revenue from annual

1:31:02subscriptions right cuz that kind of

1:31:05fits better to a community type offering

1:31:08the old offering was just a onetime

1:31:10course right right when they stand yeah

1:31:13but that doesn't incentivize the Creator

1:31:17to actually continue to help the person

1:31:19correct right if we want the create okay

1:31:22I'll tell you what what per would look

1:31:24like and then they can

1:31:26probably we can unpack that to see what

1:31:29the preferences are but right this is

1:31:31what I would imagine Perfection would

1:31:32look like for most talented people right

1:31:35you just are really good at your

1:31:37craft and then you create a group on it

1:31:40a community on it and people discover it

1:31:43and join like organically right and when

1:31:45they get in there they realize that it's

1:31:47so good so then they buy the paid

1:31:49version right MH and then the paid

1:31:52version is so good that they continue to

1:31:55pay for it and then they tell their

1:31:59friends about it and more people join

1:32:01and it grows just like that without

1:32:03without the person having

1:32:05to actually go out and run ads or things

1:32:08like

1:32:09that okay so you're saying that the the

1:32:12I just I can't get away from this vinyl

1:32:13thing the vinyl itself because of the

1:32:17restrictions that it has it incentivizes

1:32:21the info product Creator subject matter

1:32:23experts

1:32:24to try to fit into that mold in other

1:32:27words it's got to be so good and not

1:32:29relying on ad yeah yeah yeah and then

1:32:32you don't need to run ads cuz it does

1:32:34that for you basically right

1:32:37so cuz right now everyone's the ants

1:32:40always go where the sugar is right so

1:32:42like the ants aren't here helping their

1:32:44customers or practicing they're just

1:32:47trying to do tick Tok and ads yeah yeah

1:32:50it's Psychopathic but also you can't

1:32:53blame them

1:32:54sure you can you can but they're that's

1:32:57a necessary evil they think they need to

1:32:59do I think they also I don't think

1:33:02you're ever going to change that

1:33:03behavior until you change the incentive

1:33:05humans are humans they just follow the

1:33:09incentive I

1:33:11yeah or they don't listen to the priests

1:33:14and they do their own

1:33:16thing true but I think this is a bit

1:33:18more than priest this is

1:33:20like the laws of of like what will give

1:33:24you reward and pain you know what I mean

1:33:26so like if if you follow this model you

1:33:29will get money and reward and reach and

1:33:33fame right but I want to kind of change

1:33:37it so that if you just focus on being

1:33:39talented and helping your people that

1:33:41will give you the customers and

1:33:43everything you want I okay yeah yeah so

1:33:48this is this is interesting one of

1:33:50the I'm curious to see how it plays out

1:33:53or how how the vinyl incentivizes these

1:33:55people I've seen it

1:33:58already but the way that I'm looking at

1:34:00it from the other side of the coin

1:34:02dealing with the

1:34:04talent has

1:34:07been more of a lack of imagination and

1:34:09less of a response to how these

1:34:12platforms are rewarding

1:34:15people oh yeah I don't think the

1:34:17platform will solve the problem on its

1:34:19own it'll but it it needs other players

1:34:21or like agents in the ecosystem

1:34:25that spot the opportunity that the

1:34:27platform introduces and then they build

1:34:31a business out of yes yeah so that's all

1:34:35the platform does is it kind of sets the

1:34:36incentive structure and then people do

1:34:40what people do and they see opportunity

1:34:43and they add value where they

1:34:45can yeah but I I wouldn't yes and I

1:34:49wouldn't underscore the influence that

1:34:52the platform has

1:34:54at all CU When The Beatles were making

1:34:58music um at the end of the day it is

1:35:01just about the artist if artists

1:35:03disappear platform is useless I mean

1:35:06yeah yeah of course like and I'm so

1:35:08passionate about the artist or the

1:35:09subject matter expert I really am but

1:35:12like seriously when the when the Beatles

1:35:13were making

1:35:14music it was going through one speaker

1:35:18everything was

1:35:20mono and

1:35:23the way that this is a little technical

1:35:25but when you pan things left and right

1:35:27so the speakers you know there's more

1:35:29space like some's over on the left some

1:35:31on the right then you get panning and

1:35:33stereo Imaging but because in

1:35:36England everything was still mono and in

1:35:39the United States it was all stereo the

1:35:41way that you would turn down things as

1:35:43opposed to just turning down a fader you

1:35:45would actually pan things out of the

1:35:46picture so if you pan it all the way to

1:35:48the left or right I think you would get

1:35:51rid of this the center sound that there

1:35:54was in there so it was a way to sort of

1:35:55blend the volume now when that stuff

1:35:58came out in

1:36:00America people heard it and it was like

1:36:03why is there a click track on the right

1:36:06and why are his vocals all the way on

1:36:07the left and it sounded

1:36:10horrible but it opened up somebody's

1:36:12imagination to go oh that maybe that's

1:36:15cool everybody thought that they were

1:36:17Geniuses and they did that but they just

1:36:20like were operating on the vinyl that

1:36:22they knew which is the signal so they

1:36:25were running in Stereo in mono and then

1:36:27when it got released to a different

1:36:28platform it expanded everybody's

1:36:30imaginations and that's where all the

1:36:31weird Tripp LSD music came out of is

1:36:34because stuff was panned over here and

1:36:36there was like a goat singing over here

1:36:38and then there was it's all this stuff

1:36:40and it's not because the Beatles I

1:36:42should I'm going to get in trouble

1:36:43saying all this but like it's not just

1:36:44because the Beatles were so brilliant

1:36:47it's because the platform itself

1:36:49dictated how they how people created

1:36:52music M so School can't just be this

1:36:56agnostic thing and it has to have

1:36:58influence but I would actually go so far

1:37:00to say that it ought to and probably

1:37:03will push back and dictate how people

1:37:06run these businesses oh yeah it is

1:37:07opinions for sure yeah yeah but it could

1:37:10breed

1:37:11creativity

1:37:13yeah I think the way that that happens

1:37:15though is think about the reasons I mean

1:37:18why do you not think that people are

1:37:19jumping to go on school right now

1:37:23well probably because

1:37:26it well number one they don't know that

1:37:29it exists that that would be the number

1:37:31one barrier that we have is just

1:37:33straight up awareness like if you ask a

1:37:36lot of people they won't know they'll be

1:37:38like what's that right so I'd say

1:37:41awareness number one sure number two

1:37:44would be that it doesn't actually in its

1:37:48current form provide the Creator with

1:37:52more reach customers it's only a way to

1:37:56serve your customers that you already

1:37:58got from your other channels yes so it's

1:38:01still not the their main focus most of

1:38:04the it hasn't changed where people are

1:38:06putting their attention it might have

1:38:08adjusted it a little bit right but it's

1:38:11still most of the creators are putting

1:38:13their attention on ads YouTube organic

1:38:16Tik Tok ET

1:38:19true I wonder then ought it become a

1:38:23platform that deals with that or does it

1:38:25say you know what I'm I'm not going to

1:38:26play that

1:38:27game no that's the vision that it will

1:38:30do that

1:38:34too without you having to do that it

1:38:38just is you do it

1:38:40here and then that helps you out with

1:38:43reach right I think that's the play

1:38:45right because if you say oh school is

1:38:47now going to be Tik Tok school is not

1:38:48going to be Facebook ad school is not

1:38:49going to do all this stuff it's it's a

1:38:51less creative way to solve the problem a

1:38:54more creative way is just to solve your

1:38:56customer problems yeah in a better way

1:39:00and it makes all this dancing on Tik Tok

1:39:02kind of well generally you have to start

1:39:04as a tool before you can become a

1:39:05network right it's that common saying

1:39:08come for the tool stay for right so like

1:39:11we're getting there right um in fact

1:39:14some members of our school Community

1:39:15have actually hacked together

1:39:17directories now right I don't know if

1:39:19you've seen it but some guy made a

1:39:22directory of the groups he could find on

1:39:25school and put it up as a thing and it's

1:39:27one of the most popular posts in the

1:39:28community and some of the most popular

1:39:31threads are like people saying if you

1:39:33have a free group share a link to it in

1:39:35here so we can already see people

1:39:37wanting to see what else is on the

1:39:39network yep and they're even hacking

1:39:41their own Solutions so that time is

1:39:43coming um it's

1:39:45close yeah I remember when I was

1:39:48starting when I was starting the the uh

1:39:52the mastering stuff Myspace was pretty

1:39:56hot where do you find your customers

1:39:58they were all in Myspace you know it's

1:40:00not an open source you know platform or

1:40:03anything like that but I do remember

1:40:05hacking it and going give me I went to

1:40:09the back end and said Give me everybody

1:40:11who likes or follows or is friends with

1:40:13whoever it was

1:40:16blink182 in x amount of miles and give

1:40:18me their email I don't think that that

1:40:20was like kosher I don't like like

1:40:24Myspace certainly didn't offer that as a

1:40:26as a function but like I hacked it and

1:40:28figured it out got their email lists and

1:40:31and like blasted services to them it was

1:40:34like very much guerilla marketing you

1:40:36know but

1:40:37like I needed to find a way to like

1:40:40interact with the Platforms in order to

1:40:42Market and if it's not going to be

1:40:45something that's organic or open source

1:40:47then people will hack it right I think

1:40:50it would be I'd be curious to see how do

1:40:52you look at those hackers and go like

1:40:54you're you're actually great Developers

1:40:56for

1:40:57this yeah well we didn't punish those

1:41:00people that made those things right yeah

1:41:02um at all um because they're actually

1:41:07helping everyone um they're filling in

1:41:09the blanks that the school development

1:41:12team hasn't filled in yet right yeah

1:41:17um so we we're not trying to like we

1:41:21encourage that kind of stuff yeah

1:41:24that's like a new way of doing open

1:41:27source it's just yeah I think one of the

1:41:29first steps towards this that we've seen

1:41:31is people starting to use school for a

1:41:33free group yeah right so like the Kirby

1:41:37example so this is like instead of just

1:41:39being the customer portal where you only

1:41:43get to if you've bought something some

1:41:45people innovated this wasn't even how

1:41:47idea school was never Built For This

1:41:49they made a group and they said it was

1:41:51free and then they Mark then they told

1:41:53Their audience on YouTube or whatever to

1:41:55join that right and then they gave them

1:41:57a teaser of it's basically the free

1:42:00trial for the course right that's

1:42:02getting closer to being there but it

1:42:05isn't quite there yet right as soon as

1:42:07someone kind of figured that one out our

1:42:09growth just went both yep

1:42:12yeah yeah I mean yeah we've got free

1:42:15school groups with thousands of people

1:42:16in them and Setters and closers are you

1:42:19know mining in there so that's a great

1:42:22example of like platform dictating a

1:42:24business

1:42:26model or the platform kind of just built

1:42:28itself and then someone figured out a

1:42:30way to use the use it in an interesting

1:42:33way you know what I mean yeah right yeah

1:42:36the the the sort of talking between the

1:42:39talent that see this is the thing that's

1:42:41really hard for me it's still a lot of

1:42:43just business operators

1:42:45marketers interacting with a platform or

1:42:48software the thing that truly does man

1:42:50get lost is the thing that I'm just so

1:42:53passionate about is

1:42:55like the person who like has transformed

1:42:59his or her

1:43:00life becoming the absolute best like

1:43:03Furniture maker or whatever like they're

1:43:06not going to it's going to be difficult

1:43:08for them to enter that

1:43:10and I'm really passionate about just

1:43:12finding those people and plugging them

1:43:15in and helping them and not just stop

1:43:17making Furniture you need to become a

1:43:19Tik Tock dancer you know that's yeah I

1:43:21think it'll get there it'll just just

1:43:23being steps like a free group is one

1:43:26step towards that right right because

1:43:29now it changes the funnel Dynamic

1:43:31instead of saying

1:43:32like here's kind of what I can do buy it

1:43:36and then you get to find out really

1:43:38after you buy it right you're like join

1:43:41it free and I'll show you right and now

1:43:44that it's a harder game to play for the

1:43:46person that's faking it right cuz the

1:43:48community might all be sour and upset

1:43:50cuz they're like this is right

1:43:53like right it's hard to fake a

1:43:56community when they're interacting with

1:43:58something like generally they're happy

1:44:00or not and you can tell pretty quick and

1:44:02it's hard to fake that one cuz you don't

1:44:04have all the control of of everything

1:44:06right so so it breeds it's like d

1:44:09Darwinism it basically breeds like it

1:44:11rewards people to do the right thing do

1:44:13the right thing and yeah that's what I

1:44:15mean yeah yeah the natural selection

1:44:18mechanism has to be there it always does

1:44:21right right cuz you we don't want to

1:44:23just straight up tell people no right

1:44:26because then you're gatekeeping again

1:44:27right yeah and we have to let the market

1:44:30choose so it's not our choice it's the

1:44:34markets and we just have to make sure

1:44:37that the model

1:44:39fairly rewards people for being good at

1:44:43what they do and adding value to

1:44:46people

1:44:48right yeah and I think that it will as

1:44:51long as you continue to be Cur ious

1:44:54right and you plays to be one of yeah

1:44:57that's because I've done it I know I was

1:45:00fed up with all of the right issues same

1:45:03thing with you right you're able to see

1:45:05it and then you also know the market

1:45:08they're stepping into and where it's

1:45:10trending towards

1:45:12like yeah for

1:45:15sure yeah the thing that's curious about

1:45:18kind of the thing that I'm doing is it's

1:45:20obviously less technical it's not a SASS

1:45:22and it's not a

1:45:23platform it's highly

1:45:27relational but in order to interact with

1:45:30that I truly believe that these true

1:45:34underground this underground talent that

1:45:35we keep talking

1:45:37about they're they're out

1:45:39there yeah they're out there and they

1:45:42don't need to become some marketing

1:45:45marketer no they don't yeah and I'm like

1:45:49basically on a mission to find them and

1:45:51we found them but like you know what

1:45:53about this too I don't know if you've

1:45:54seen this is people will find somebody

1:45:58on YouTube it's like all this person's

1:46:00really good at

1:46:02cooking the two-dimensional approach is

1:46:05to

1:46:06say um let's create a course together

1:46:09okay what's it going to be on

1:46:11cooking cool we'll just like make a

1:46:13cooking course and we'll sell it for 300

1:46:15bucks and it'll be like a little side

1:46:18thing on your YouTube channel and so now

1:46:20you have this whole ecosystem of like if

1:46:22you're a content creator and you have an

1:46:24audience and you want to make money

1:46:25selling online um the way that you do

1:46:28that is you do a course and they make

1:46:30all these like silly entertainment

1:46:33courses selling for 300 bucks and it

1:46:35just it's like cool now I don't need to

1:46:37be riant on YouTube giving me money I

1:46:40can make money my own way right those

1:46:43are the people that I'm most curious

1:46:45about and who I want to go after because

1:46:47what I found and we've seen this with

1:46:49college I'll give you an example there's

1:46:50this guy who great great drummer really

1:46:54successful um YouTube channel as well so

1:46:57like dude you've got it all like

1:46:58unbelievable drumming you've got the

1:47:01audience but like the third piece is

1:47:03like the operations and everything and

1:47:05the and the product speciic and the

1:47:07product so the product for

1:47:09sale what's it going to be

1:47:11drumming no no no no no like lead

1:47:15Zeppelin doesn't write their music

1:47:17because they got really good at their

1:47:18instruments like these people have

1:47:21stories and like families and have gone

1:47:24through some stuff and you see this too

1:47:26in like I live in New York like the

1:47:29people who are best in Texas who that

1:47:31you know little suie is a really good

1:47:33violinist whatever and I'm they become

1:47:36the biggest in Texas then they move to

1:47:38New York and I'm going to make it in the

1:47:40city as soon as they get from JFK to

1:47:43Grand Central and they pop out of the

1:47:45subway station somebody is playing

1:47:47violin in the subway better than them

1:47:49and they're begging for money

1:47:53so if you're there you have to actually

1:47:55dig down deep and go I can't I can't

1:47:56just make a course on violin right what

1:47:59is what is the deepest darkest thing

1:48:01that I can dig up with that that I can

1:48:03dig up inside me and there's an offer

1:48:05sitting in every subject matter expert

1:48:07so this guy on that I'm talking about on

1:48:09YouTube drum me

1:48:12course it's like I think every marketer

1:48:15marketing marketing to marketers would

1:48:17say cool well you just need to do some

1:48:18ads and so forth but no no no like who

1:48:21are you

1:48:23let's not tweak the course but let's

1:48:25what's the offer there like why is he

1:48:27like exploring that why is he drumming y

1:48:29because there's the reason why he's good

1:48:33is not cuz he was just like I'm going to

1:48:34play the drums exactly yeah there's

1:48:37something there yeah yeah but they have

1:48:39no again it's lack of imagination it's

1:48:42the way that I make more money as a

1:48:43drummer I've heard online courses are

1:48:44good so I'm going to sell this online

1:48:45course and I already have the YouTube

1:48:47following I'm already good at jums and

1:48:48I'm just going to do the online course

1:48:50thing no no no like

1:48:53his offer I mean we ripped it apart it

1:48:56was what's your story and you find out

1:48:59he became good at drums for all of these

1:49:01reasons that he never talked about but

1:49:04were the most fascinating and he dug

1:49:07down deep into different parts of his

1:49:08life and that's why he became the

1:49:10drummer like is a way to like deal

1:49:14with like feelings and things like this

1:49:17yeah it gets super personal and

1:49:18relational which this space needs quite

1:49:20frankly everybody has like their Saab

1:49:22story in their vssl it's never really a

1:49:24SB story it's like a bolted on like I

1:49:28must check off pain in vssl make sure I

1:49:31I you know touch on problem but like if

1:49:34you're actually honest with that stuff

1:49:36people will will resonate that's the

1:49:38thing is it also just works you make

1:49:40more money doing this but yeah with that

1:49:43guy in particular um it was like he had

1:49:46a reason for drumming and it came with

1:49:49like providing and like being a father

1:49:52and

1:49:53and he had to get to the bare minimum of

1:49:55of what he needed to do in order to

1:49:57provide and he only learned two

1:49:59fundamental drum

1:50:01exercises wait a second that's there's

1:50:04something there these two exercises what

1:50:07you found when you needed to provide for

1:50:09your F except oh okay interesting so

1:50:11this is a minimal viable way to get

1:50:12really good really fast okay interesting

1:50:16why what else are you doing I'm

1:50:17producing on YouTube I'm like filming

1:50:19myself so I can get my name out there

1:50:22there's a second piece of this recording

1:50:25producing getting your drum sounding

1:50:27good boom why are you doing this to

1:50:30promote myself there's a third piece in

1:50:32how to put it out onto you so now his

1:50:33offer isn't like how to drum it's like

1:50:36here are the fundamental things that you

1:50:38need provide by performing exactly and

1:50:40you need these three pillars yeah you

1:50:42need this and I'll also show you what

1:50:44I'm doing every single day to get really

1:50:45good drum sounds and I'll also try to

1:50:47put on your platform and whether you

1:50:49want to get gigs as a Performing Artist

1:50:51or Studio drummer I'm not going to show

1:50:52show you that stuff that's up to you but

1:50:54you need these three these

1:50:56pillars but like that that's like a

1:50:58$5,000 offer yeah and it's not just

1:51:01drums

1:51:03actually how so I mean I can see how it

1:51:05can be applied yeah I mean it can

1:51:08absolutely be applied to any kind of at

1:51:11least in the most basic version any

1:51:13instrument or think about standup

1:51:16standup has recently evolved stand-up

1:51:18comedy is recently um evolved to to a

1:51:23different form like this too the best

1:51:25people that are crushing it now they

1:51:27know how to do YouTube right and they

1:51:30know how to adapt their style to that