Full transcript
0:00love the art in the place thanks it's
0:06nice I've seen this in a few your videos
0:09oh
0:10yeah is it random or did you just did
0:12you buy stuff
0:14like it's a famous painting from the
0:18Renaissance period yeah I like that
0:22period yeah what is it about it that you
0:24like the Renaissance well it was like
0:27the end of the Dark Ages right so like
0:29yeah
0:30the priests claimed they had all the
0:32truth and it was very dogmatic and kind
0:35of depressing and there was not much
0:37creativity and then they started mixing
0:39everything so like artists collaborated
0:43with like um furniture makers who
0:47collaborated with painters who
0:49collaborated with chemists and and
0:51everything just started mixing and then
0:53all of there was like an explosion of
0:55creativity um and the art from that
0:58period it's just
1:01so you can tell like it's just
1:05so colorful
1:08and there's like a sense of like
1:10craftsmanship in it yeah yeah what made
1:13you go for the colorful School
1:16logo
1:20um well it's kind of annoying when you
1:23have a brand and you have to choose one
1:25color
1:27right well you know like most brands are
1:29just color right but the idea of school
1:33like it's a community platform we want
1:35to have a billion people using it
1:38so that means that there's there's a lot
1:41of people on there and if you have a few
1:43colors chances are that one of them you
1:46might
1:46like
1:48it's um so it's just you know some
1:52people might not like blows some people
1:53might not like red some people might not
1:54like green but if you mix them up yeah I
1:58think it's more
2:00I don't know there was that part of it
2:02there was also just I liked it logos in
2:05the older internet early 2000s there was
2:07a lot of colorful logos if you look at
2:09eBay's logo right even Apple used to
2:12have a multicolored logo right so there
2:15was a a period at the start of the the
2:18technology industry which is when the
2:20Renaissance was I reckon which is why it
2:22was like that and it lets playful that's
2:25the other one because I wanted school to
2:27have a playful fun thing to it yeah um
2:31and I remember like looking at I just
2:33went to Google images and searched
2:36like corporate word I didn't want um and
2:40you just sit back you look at the screen
2:43it's all blue and gray right then you
2:47search
2:48fun and it's all all of these different
2:51colors right so just from like far away
2:53of Something's like corporate
2:55fun um I wanted it to be fun in playful
2:59in you know yeah there's some of the
3:00reasons there was more but yeah it's
3:03really interesting that you think like
3:05the the early 2000s were The Rance of
3:07the internet cuz I have to say like as a
3:09user of school like I was just Sandy
3:11outside there it when I use school it
3:14feels nostalgic to me and I think you
3:17just unlocked why I could be yeah I grew
3:20up with with forums and I love them but
3:23I can see why they also kind of ended
3:26because they're just a bit too old you
3:28know like
3:30like they're not live and updating you
3:32don't get much of a feed you've got to
3:34like dig through many links to get to
3:36something
3:38and you know they don't have likes and
3:42and the chat is ancient and you know
3:46there's just I can see why they're not
3:47the main thing anymore but there was
3:49something about forums
3:51that like a spirit that was lost when
3:54they they were gone away um so I wanted
3:58to kind of like keep that Spirit but
4:00modernize it a bit do you know what I
4:02mean 100% yeah so a lot of schoolers
4:05kind of like that when you use it you're
4:07like this is kind of old but it's also
4:10like new it's it's a little puzzling
4:14yeah yeah it feels like it has a lot of
4:18the
4:20modern good bits but the nostalgic old
4:23bits that I think made the internet so
4:25pure and and so fun as a user yeah
4:28that's what I've been trying to do
4:30like use the best of modern
4:33technology um and user experience
4:35patterns right but keep the spirit that
4:38was lost with social
4:40media yeah because every social media
4:42platform started off
4:45awesome yeah yeah I guess I
4:49mean I
4:51think yeah I guess that's true
4:55yeah except for Tik
4:58Tok
5:03I love that Google image search between
5:06corporate and fun and I hope I hope you
5:08don't mind me saying this but like I
5:11remember like your videos like whenever
5:13I was like a teenager and it was like
5:15short hair super slick kind of like big
5:18I don't know was it like mahogany desk
5:19or something yeah it was that one was it
5:21that one right there wow yeah you
5:24brought it yeah I mean it's brought the
5:26pass forward it's a good disc I didn't
5:28want to get rid of it
5:31and you like you were super slick yeah
5:33and then you disappeared for a few years
5:35and then you came back and you had long
5:37hair and there's like all this color and
5:40there seems to be like a lot of fun tell
5:43me about
5:45that
5:47well you know when I first started like
5:50kind of making courses and and
5:54trainings this
5:56I I was trying to be more professional
5:59cuz I was also quite young people and
6:02back then people were like why would I
6:04listen to you and and all of this and
6:06and people would say well that's not a
6:07real business and there's less of that
6:10now people have adapted now and like
6:13there's none of that actually
6:16but I was
6:18like there was a bit of that that I was
6:21trying to show that I was like more
6:22professional that I was running a proper
6:25business and trying
6:28to and probably overcompensating too for
6:31like uh for insecurity that I had about
6:34myself
6:36um
6:38and yeah so I just wanted it was kind of
6:41like a I guess like a character I mean I
6:45did live in that place right and that
6:47was my desk but I never wore like a
6:50business shirt I always wore
6:53t-shirts um
6:56and yeah I guess I was also just trying
6:58to discover my myself as well
7:01um but yeah I just I got tired of that
7:06like it
7:07wasn't it was I didn't like New York for
7:11one it was just too much for me I like
7:15places that I like nature basically so
7:17it was torture
7:20um and I'm not very professional like at
7:23all so so and I also don't like making
7:28like videos um or being famous or
7:31anything like that so it just got to the
7:34point where it
7:37was and also it was rubbing people the
7:39wrong way like people would call me
7:42things and then I'd read comments and I
7:44was like [ __ ] these guys they're right
7:47because like I was
7:49like I can't just call this person an
7:51idiot like I'm pretty sure that they're
7:53right and then it just made me think a
7:56lot about it and I was like yeah this
7:57something's off like I can tell it I'm
8:00not doing what I'm supposed to be doing
8:03there's like some pretending or there's
8:05some it doesn't feel good I'm kind of
8:09like tired of it right and it seems to
8:12be agitating some people so I just knew
8:14it was
8:15off
8:17and I was like my wife
8:21was was the one who was like you
8:26should she was very good in helping me
8:29like discover really what I should do
8:32cuz she's an artist so she's very good
8:34at like finding
8:36that that Purity thing and she she would
8:39almost tell me like
8:41you like what you're doing is gross
8:45basically she's pretty direct um
8:49and and then I was like okay well I need
8:52to try to figure out what I want to do
8:54and we moved to LA that was the first
8:56step and I was like okay this is better
8:58and then when I was living Liv on the
8:59beach cuz we were living in Marina del
9:01at
9:02first I and I didn't have a a
9:05hairdresser cuz I was I was new to La so
9:07my hair was just growing longer not
9:10intentional at first but it just started
9:12to grow longer and I was like living at
9:13the beach I was just way more
9:16relaxed and I started
9:19exploring I started coming up with the
9:21idea for
9:22school um and i' also saved a good
9:26amount of money so I could like I could
9:30have a swing at something big and not
9:33worry about just trying to make money
9:34right um and that's when I started like
9:37discovering school it kind of came to me
9:42slowly like in in little pieces um and I
9:46couldn't even see the whole thing at
9:47first just the tiniest part of
9:51it and I had no idea if it would work or
9:54not but my wife believed that it would m
9:59and I was so exhausted of the other
10:01thing right that I was just like [ __ ] it
10:03let's try what were some of those early
10:05pieces and at what point did it start to
10:06connect together we you're like ah there
10:10might be something
10:12here
10:15well when I was making courses
10:19I noticed that
10:23like more people would use the community
10:25than the course right like let's say you
10:27sell someone a course and they've got
10:28their log into their course content and
10:30then you you used to make a Facebook
10:32group for your customers right you look
10:35at the
10:36stats people don't log into that content
10:39portal much at
10:40all they forget where the login is like
10:44for sure they actually forget the domain
10:46name right so like they don't even know
10:48where it is and but they seem to use the
10:51Facebook group quite a lot and then I'd
10:54look at the content in there I like
10:55added it all up and I was like man every
10:58like couple of weeks this community
11:00produces more content than is in the
11:02whole course right and then I noticed
11:05two people from my courses got married
11:08and I was like damn that that wouldn't
11:11have happened with just that
11:12course and you know people started like
11:15innovating they came up with
11:16accountability Partners they started
11:19practicing sales calls with each other
11:22rehearsing um some people became
11:25business partners some people got
11:26married and I was just like wellow this
11:28is
11:29is there's something here like this
11:32seems like the future of it
11:36um so I knew it was a combination of and
11:40I also could tell that this industry was
11:41taking off like you know traditional
11:43education like falling apart right
11:49and I knew that there was something to
11:51this like it would be like Facebook
11:53groups but somehow there would be the
11:55course component built into it and
11:59it would be like a a
12:02platform that would be so easy to use it
12:05would be like
12:06Airbnb right so as simple as listing a
12:09room on ABNB so that anyone can do it
12:12you don't need to know the tech that was
12:13the other thing I noticed over the years
12:15is the tech burden was just getting out
12:18of control oh dude and even for me and
12:21I'm quite technical right yeah and so I
12:23was like this is I'm
12:26exhausted and the these rules rules are
12:29changing every day like you know the
12:30compliance rules gdpr and all that crap
12:33and then you know the tracking and buy
12:38like six 10 things it's like you need
12:40stop here you need this and use this for
12:42your line page but use this for your
12:43website and like it just gets
12:44maintenance of trying to keep it running
12:48I found it basically impossible to even
12:50get it to run properly let alone like
12:53continue to run properly right so I was
12:55like thinking this is out of control
12:59and it seems to be getting worse and
13:03there's no way a normal person can do
13:04this nor should they right
13:09um so I noticed all of these things
13:14and I also noticed that the market
13:18seemed to reward you for spending more
13:20time on marketing than the product what
13:22do you mean brother so if you just
13:25forget if back with like how things used
13:27to be if you just like kind of spend
13:29more time marketing and less time making
13:32a good product you could do better right
13:35and I thought that that meant that the
13:37market was
13:38flawed right so I had this this Vision
13:41that well what if you just worked on the
13:45product and then it became you were the
13:49most successful based on that right so
13:51the best thing one instead of just the
13:54best
13:55marketing um and I wanted to so these
13:58are all very like vague ideas but I
14:00wanted to build something that kind of
14:03encapsulated all of
14:05this where are the dam School come
14:09from I think I wanted I I just thought
14:12of school like right and I emailed the
14:15dude that owned it and he said he wanted
14:17like $100 million for or something and I
14:20was like okay well well I can't do that
14:25uh so I thought of some other spellings
14:28of it and I used to spell it like that
14:29as a kid yeah me too and then I saw it
14:33like that and I was like damn it it's
14:34better like the K instead of CH it's
14:37shorter right and so I was like that's
14:41good I it's also good luck to have
14:43double o's apparently did you hear about
14:45that never Loom Zoom Google Facebook
14:50Yahoo so I liked it and I was just like
14:54okay let's let's do that and I could get
14:55that domain for cheaper like a lot
14:58cheaper
15:00um
15:01so went with
15:03that and it's like school but
15:07different yeah uh it's like well kids
15:11used to spell it that way to rebel I
15:15think against the the formality of
15:19school right so it was a rebellious way
15:22to to spell school and so I like that
15:26cuz school was like it's education but
15:28you would never think of it like that
15:31like you don't actually you should never
15:32think that you're
15:34learning it should be fun and you should
15:37be learning but that's
15:39not it's not formal and there's no real
15:43like teachers or there's no structured
15:45it's one of the reasons why there's no
15:47quizzes in school by the way um cuz I
15:50think those just kind of suck yeah yeah
15:53like I I I hate quizzes yeah me too and
15:56it it doesn't mean that you're actually
15:58better at it it just means you memorize
16:00some one particular thing yeah yeah like
16:04any sort of system it can be gamified in
16:06a bad way like you can just get really
16:09good at quizzes it doesn't mean you've
16:11actually internalized any of this stuff
16:13yo I remember I got very good at like
16:15Google AdWords and Google analytics and
16:17things and then one day I was like I
16:19wonder if I could get my Google
16:21analytics or Google AdWords
16:24certification I don't know why but I
16:26started going through the like exam
16:29and I was like I don't know any of the
16:30Strat and it's useless I was like I'm
16:32running a profitable like AdWords
16:35campaign yeah so like what but how many
16:39people are certified that can't do
16:42it so it provides a false sense of
16:46um of
16:49skill cuz you should doing it should be
16:53the main objective yeah right and if you
16:56can do it and it's working I mean who
16:58cares is what
17:01anyone what any quiz says right yeah
17:04yeah one of my favorite authors is Seth
17:06Goen and he talks
17:08about you don't need a resume or a CV
17:11just show people your portfolio so like
17:14if you're like selling social media
17:15Services just just show them your social
17:17media profile that has a million
17:19followers like no certification in the
17:21world conf that J no I greate it's
17:26awesome so at what Point does this
17:33idea start to pick up enough traction
17:36that you think about winding up your
17:37other
17:40business yeah so I when I say winding up
17:43I mean having a really successful exit
17:46and sale which was
17:47awesome well it took a lot longer than I
17:50thought
17:51because you know it took me once I sort
17:54of had the idea took me one year to find
17:57my co-founder
17:59yeah cuz I knew that this was a
18:02technology company right and it's what I
18:05was trying to do was not easy right like
18:10step one is you got to make a platform
18:12like better than Facebook groups like
18:14come
18:15on that's not easy sure um and you're
18:19not just going to do that with some
18:21random engineer right they have to be
18:24special and so I spent a year looking
18:27for him in a lot of time like I wanted
18:30to give up the most at that point yeah
18:34um but then I found him and then we
18:38started building
18:39school and at first you know it was very
18:43important that I just didn't think about
18:46making
18:47money it was I was all about making the
18:50product right and I had no idea how it
18:53was going to make money to be completely
18:55honest no idea at all all I knew was it
18:58was going going to cost a shitload of
18:59money so so um we were just building it
19:06and and it took a long time to build and
19:09it took a long time to find the right
19:11people to hold that Talent standard
19:14right
19:16um and to do it properly and so you know
19:20we had the first version live after only
19:2330 days but it was so crude who built
19:27that my co-founder Daniel unbelievable
19:31yeah but you you don't know what the
19:33first was better like posted notes on a
19:36digital
19:38screen uh it it was crude like it you
19:43you wouldn't even even knowing that that
19:45would turn into school put it that way
19:46you have to start with the smallest
19:48piece you don't just build all of this
19:49and then ship it like God you have to
19:53work in small cycles and constantly get
19:55feedback from the users right so we
19:57wanted to to get something in front of
19:59you as fast so had the first version
20:00live with 100 people in 30 days and then
20:04it was just a
20:06constant process of evolution from then
20:09we've been talking to customers every
20:12day shipping things almost every day
20:15ever since then um and it's been a slow
20:18gradual Evolution cuz you can't just
20:21think of it all in your mind and build
20:23it you'll miss by a mile it has to be a
20:26little change and then you see what
20:28people think how it goes and then you
20:30adapt it and and then by the time you
20:34give it to people and they give you
20:35their feedback the thing you thought you
20:36were going to do next might completely
20:39change right because you might have
20:41missed what you thought was going to
20:42happen after you did that last thing and
20:45so it took us a long time to build it
20:48and
20:49then I kept consulting.com running at
20:52the same time because it was helping pay
20:54for the bills right uh cuz software
20:57Engineers are expensive
20:58yeah
21:00and I
21:02just really like downsized it and made
21:05it efficient so it could run without me
21:08as much as possible um so most of my
21:11time was going into school I would say
21:12maybe one day a week would go into
21:14con.com then we introduced a business
21:17model to school at like I don't know 3
21:19years in right because we were staring
21:22to get quite a lot of people on the team
21:23and we needed to hire more people and I
21:25was like okay this thing needs to make
21:26money somehow and
21:28and then we added that and then school
21:31started to grow and I was like okay I
21:32can
21:34see how this will work now
21:37like I'll be able
21:39to well you know I still couldn't
21:42actually make the
21:44Gap it was very stressful
21:47but I basically spent all of my money
21:51really yeah I got down to like 50 Grand
21:55not in my business bank account but in
21:58my personal bank account what the heck
22:01yeah um and I never got down to 50 in
22:04the business account there would be
22:06rless but all of my personal money got
22:08put into this project and I still
22:11couldn't get to like break even on that
22:14match so it was like beyond my ability
22:17to fund even with canon.com too the
22:22project just grew and grew and grew
22:25um so I I it was a real stressful time
22:28because I needed all of my time so I
22:30couldn't even afford to do consult.com
22:32and I needed more money than it could
22:34even
22:35provide and I was like that was very
22:39stressful and then I just I don't know
22:42how it happened but I came up with this
22:43idea to like get my Mastermind to see if
22:48they wanted to invest in it so at the
22:50next Mastermind event I just told
22:52everyone I was like if you want to
22:54invest in school like let me know no and
22:58I was like I didn't know if they would
23:00or not but
23:03we I was shocked it was like we we
23:06raised about $5 million from them just
23:10for like a 10 minute or maybe a 20
23:12minute mention at a at a at an event and
23:16then that helped a lot and then that
23:19made me think okay now I don't need to
23:21do this anymore I can jump I can make a
23:24leap of faith now and I'm pretty sure
23:26with that much money I'll be able to get
23:28to this point where where it will start
23:31to like self-
23:32sustain
23:35and that
23:38worked yeah but I had to when I shut
23:41down consulting.com and sold it off
23:45there was still a leap of faith I didn't
23:47know for sure but I was like if I put
23:49all of my effort and attention into this
23:53I'm I think I can make
23:55it um but yeah it's been it's dangerous
24:00stuff this
24:03like I had no idea how we were going to
24:05make money and then I spent all of my
24:08money and then I even needed other
24:09people's
24:12money it was like it's been pretty wild
24:15yeah why did you have the
24:19conviction cuz you know at any point
24:20like you can walk away yeah of course
24:22there's some cost but like you're a
24:24smart guy like you
24:25can WRA things up
24:32um I just didn't I
24:37just I guess I just believed that there
24:40would be a way to figure it out
24:43like sometimes I wasn't cuz that's
24:46basically the story of school right like
24:48it when I started building it I couldn't
24:50even see the whole thing so I didn't
24:52even really we could just focus on one
24:54piece and then the next piece emerges
24:56and
25:00and yeah it's interesting the pattern
25:03really has been like the community has
25:04come forward and provided almost
25:06everything like the they've helped build
25:09the thing they helped fund the thing um
25:13like most of our investors are power
25:15users right and so it's been once I
25:18learned that pattern I was like okay
25:20this is like school's DNA basically yeah
25:24it's really interesting that DNA I think
25:26has filtered on into the user level
25:30especially the community owner level
25:32where you can just start with like a
25:36little idea about your group and you
25:38don't have to have like the full course
25:39build you don't need to have like all
25:41these massive product ecosystem it's
25:43like you can start with the idea get the
25:44community around you and then from your
25:47own
25:48Community yeah it all emerges yeah
25:51that's right like that's and that's like
25:52the school games too it's like let's set
25:54the
25:55conditions and the vision and the
25:59intention and everything right and then
26:01let's let it like
26:04emerge right and that's that is true
26:07that's how I how I do things now like
26:10everything um and that's not how I used
26:12to do them I used to do it like
26:15very um controlled but that would always
26:20like suck out the fun and suck out the
26:25like the
26:30it would it would really suck out the
26:31fun and a lot of the creativity I found
26:33instead of just letting it kind of
26:36happen and letting it be more
26:38collaborative yeah my grny is a wise
26:42woman and
26:43she when I was growing up always used to
26:45say to me it's like you know you can
26:46live your life in two ways you can live
26:48your life with your fists closed where
26:50you try to hold on to everything you
26:51have but it also means new things can't
26:54be put in your hand or you can have the
26:57courage to open your hands and yeah you
26:59run the risk that some things might be
27:01taken away from you or fall off but
27:02actually it also opens you up to like
27:04loads and loads of stuff being put in it
27:07yeah how did you do this motion like
27:10what changed in you that allowed you to
27:13kind of like open up and let stuff go
27:15like that CU that's a lot of
27:17entrepreneurs struggle with
27:22that
27:25um well I mean if you're going to build
27:27something like this that's that is what
27:29it is right so like it's user generated
27:33content
27:36um but one thing I found when I was
27:39doing cons. comom is I was always so
27:42specific in like rigid in a way and some
27:44people like I don't want to do it that
27:46way and but I was like well that's what
27:48the course is
27:50like too bad basically um and then you
27:53know people wanted to do different
27:54things have different styles but I was
27:56like I just kind accommodate all of this
27:58it's just
27:59impossible and then you know people have
28:01different languages and I was just like
28:03oh I I'm just so useless as one person
28:07basically so I started thinking like how
28:10would this work if it could adapt to
28:13everyone and kind of fill in all of the
28:16gaps
28:18and yeah I realized it had to emerge
28:21like that and then you know I just read
28:24a lot of stories too about really great
28:26companies and I noticed that they all
28:28seem to evolve like that too
28:33yeah and I remember reading like some
28:35Zen like proverb or something about a a
28:38vase you know a vase mhm yeah so the
28:41thing that makes a vase like so
28:44valuable and why people never throw them
28:46away is because it allows the user to
28:49put something of their own inside
28:54it the Zen proverb was much more elegant
28:57elegantly worded than that but that's
29:00what it said like and I was like Ah
29:03that's true like and that's why people
29:05don't throw out Lego like it's the only
29:07kids toy that doesn't get put in the
29:10trash because you it allows the user to
29:13do like what they want with it right MH
29:15and it might come with a pattern but it
29:18it can be combined with other things and
29:21stuff and so I was thinking a lot about
29:23these kinds of things and wanted to make
29:26something like that
29:30I mean there's like a builtin
29:32quality to school like kind of like Lego
29:36like it's robust it works like Lego
29:40doesn't add it hasn't tried to reinvent
29:43the brick yeah and I see you guys and
29:47even just the short time I've been with
29:48you guys today something that really
29:50stands out to me is like how
29:52intentionally and slowly you release
29:55things because that quality is so so
29:58important and I think that's what you
30:00feel when you use the
30:02platform
30:04yeah yeah I think
30:07it's building it properly
30:11and you know like to make something
30:14simple and intuitive and easy to use and
30:20fast that is where all the hard work is
30:25yeah um and you the the the other thing
30:28that helps you do that
30:30is you've tried doing that 50 different
30:34ways right so that's what takes
30:38time
30:40yeah yeah it's not like I mean it takes
30:43time to build it right too but you
30:45just it's a very iterative process you
30:48just don't have the like you have this
30:50idea for it you you build it and then
30:54you use it and you're like no this is
30:55not right or you use you think it's good
30:57you ship it users don't understand it
31:00but to really get something perfect it's
31:03a lot of
31:04work where did her MOSI come into the
31:07picture speaking of like opening your
31:11hands and yeah
31:14so
31:17I was like what happened with me in many
31:20ways building school like it's such a
31:24big project that it first I was kind of
31:28marketing it a little bit barely but a
31:30little bit and building it at the same
31:32time right and I just that wasn't
31:36sustainable like I needed all of my
31:38attention on school I had no time to
31:39Market it but we needed to to Market it
31:43and so I had that problem and then I
31:49just thought well what if we just got
31:52like a big influencer to help us like
31:56that would that would
31:57then I wouldn't have to worry about that
32:00right I wouldn't have to build an
32:01audience I wouldn't have to make content
32:03cuz at first I was like oh just build
32:04some content like I built this podcast
32:07Studio actually with professional
32:09microphones and [ __ ] started doing
32:12episodes we were thinking we were going
32:14to cut them out put them into shorts and
32:15[ __ ] oh my god dude I did like four
32:19episodes and I was like this is this is
32:23this can't work like this is a full-time
32:25job making content right
32:28I mean you even need a team just to make
32:30content and then when you're not making
32:31the content you're thinking
32:33about making the content right so where
32:36am I where's the skill fit into that it
32:38just doesn't right and as you say like
32:40even back in the consultant.com days you
32:42didn't even enjoy that to making the
32:45content
32:46B yeah and I think it's cuz I always
32:48just want to do this other thing I think
32:49I could enjoy it if it was all I was
32:51doing but I've always wanted to do
32:53something else so it's always been
32:55painful having to do it um I just prefer
32:59to build things right and so I want to
33:02be building it not like talking um and
33:08so I quit that I was like this is
33:10[ __ ] we can't do
33:12this and then I just started like
33:15talking to some different influencers
33:17and hosi was like we made a dream 100
33:20list of like who would be the biggest
33:22people that we could like partner with
33:24on this and hosi was like right up there
33:28like in the top three I think
33:31um
33:34and I just I started talking to him
33:38about it when I first started talking to
33:40him about it it was probably like a year
33:43and a half before we even did this deal
33:46because I think when when I first
33:48started talking to him about it he
33:50wasn't so sure that he wanted to do
33:52anything like that and also school was a
33:55lot newer but then over time I think he
33:57started to hear about school more
34:02and
34:04then yeah it just we we had a lot of
34:06conversations
34:08like like we were having a call almost
34:11every week for months and just exploring
34:14what we could
34:16do and it started to come together like
34:20how we would do it like the the school
34:23games thing right um and
34:27and how the partnership would kind of
34:30work and it just you know it just kind
34:32of came together probably over like six
34:35months and then we we launched it yeah
34:40what was it like well first of
34:44all heru's always been very particular
34:48and cautious about what he supports and
34:50endorses M
34:53and you know since he's kind of really
34:56blown up online this is his first thing
34:58that I know of that he's like really
35:00gone all in on and I think that's been
35:02very very
35:03powerful what I think so what's it been
35:06like for you to like have the the
35:09floodgates open on this platform that
35:12you've been you've been building for
35:15what three plus
35:17years almost
35:19five and then it took me one year to
35:21find Daniel before that so six more and
35:24then I was thinking about it for a while
35:26before that
35:27[Laughter]
35:28it's so we've only been doing it for
35:30almost five but I spent one year looking
35:32for Daniel and then probably 6 months
35:35developing the idea so like it's been a
35:38while um it was good like it I was
35:42nervous because
35:44I in theory I I thought it would work
35:47but you just never know until you pulled
35:49the trigger right sure so I was very
35:52nervous for a while um and then when we
35:55did it and it started to work I was like
35:57okay that's good
36:00um and
36:02then you know when we saw people make
36:05communities rank on the leaderboards
36:07invite people build cool things I was
36:09like okay this is this is working
36:13and it was it grew it's grown very fast
36:16I told the growth team like no more like
36:20no like don't no less but no more cuz I
36:24was like we need to make sure we keep
36:27our quality standards and higher enough
36:29people so that things don't get out of
36:32control right
36:34um yeah was it's been great it's like
36:37added a lot
36:38of energy into like into school like a
36:44lot of excitement a lot of awareness cuz
36:48I think school has it's always been a
36:50great product but it most people just
36:52haven't known about it right yeah and so
36:55it was cool that well all of a sudden
36:57people found out about it and tried it
36:59and they were like oh this is pretty
37:01good yeah and the
37:03parties when there's more people in the
37:05party the part is a lot more
37:08fun yeah how do you keep the wrong types
37:12of people from showing up to the party
37:14because that can also ruin a party like
37:15we talked about the purity of the
37:17internet and how a lot of things start
37:19off git I really respect your guys slow
37:24approach and I think that that
37:28is genius and will solve a lot of those
37:31issues but what else do you guys do to
37:34keep that Community
37:38pure yeah
37:40well I would say
37:48that when you you have to just kind of
37:51feel it like I check that Community
37:54every day multiple times right and I
37:58have a I've developed like
37:59a a
38:02real intimate kind of like feel of the
38:06the the users in the network and the
38:08platform right and so when something's
38:10wrong I am in a lot of pain actually wow
38:15and and it it I think constantly about
38:19how to fix that and then I fix it and
38:21when things are right I feel
38:24calm and so I've basically just like
38:26hooked my nervous system up to it and I
38:31think it's
38:32just letting like growing but not
38:35letting things get out of control and
38:37then continuing to resolve the the
38:40issues as they emerge
38:42mhm and making sure and talking to the
38:44customers constantly that's the other
38:46thing like I'm on the platform all the
38:50time I'm using it all the
38:52time and so that's really important and
38:54talking to people using it but I also
38:56know who our power users are like I
38:59notic them like they I noticed them come
39:02up and I talk to them on Zoom for hours
39:06like sometimes I'll talk we'll have a
39:073-hour zoom call or something and I'll
39:10go over I'll like just interrogate them
39:13on what they think of this what their
39:15problems are and I can get a sense of if
39:18they're frustrated with
39:20anything and then I share and then I'm
39:22like trying to validate okay did I think
39:25that that was what it was and I'm like
39:27okay so I understand your problems then
39:30I show them what I've been thinking and
39:33then I watch them kind of react to that
39:36to see if I'm on the right
39:39path and then I do that all the time so
39:42like constantly talking to the customers
39:44using the product and and feeling
39:50it that's that's how cuz if there's a
39:54problem you you have to fix it the ways
39:56it starts to feel wrong yeah a lot of
39:58skill has been based on feeling actually
40:01which is very different than
40:02consulting.com that's something that my
40:04wife like taught me I think a lot of
40:08artists
40:10carry that sensitivity into their art
40:14and that that that is what art is yeah
40:17yeah it's like super important yeah now
40:20I've notic that the best artists they
40:21make something that resonates with an
40:24enormous amount of people right M so how
40:26do they do that I swear there's always
40:28something in the
40:30a
40:31like not like a smell or something but
40:34like the people there's some energy
40:36people can sense right it's just like
40:38kind of the global Consciousness or
40:40whatever and the the best artists are
40:43the ones that are able to sense it the
40:46best probably because they're the most
40:48sensitive and they've also sheded off
40:50all of the fakeness so that they can
40:52they're just feeling the real signal
40:54instead of just some Tren [ __ ] trend
40:56yeah and then they make something that
40:59talks that speaks to what everyone's
41:01feeling and it just grabs hold yeah yeah
41:04and I think when artists do
41:06that I don't know if it's like catharsis
41:09or what is going on there but like it
41:11changes them like in the process of them
41:13creating their thing that's true to them
41:16it somehow like transforms them as a
41:18person as
41:20well like how do you think building
41:22school
41:24has shaped you or changed
41:29you well I mean you can see how it has
41:33you just asked me like you know how
41:36different Everything Is Right From
41:37consulting.com New York days
41:41yeah
41:44um it's it's almost just like it's come
41:48to me instead of me making it you know
41:51what I mean I've let it happen like
41:54that very cool
41:58H where do you
42:01see the future of school going and
42:06what Dent do you want this piece of art
42:10to make on the
42:12world
42:14well I can only tell you what like the
42:16vision is for it and we have to wait and
42:20see right cuz I can't predict the future
42:23um but I wanted to build something that
42:27a billion people used like that was
42:31basically I
42:33just I wanted to do that I don't know
42:36why um I guess some of my favorite
42:38products in the world have reached a
42:39billion people and there's something
42:41about making something that you know
42:43people are using like every day cuz
42:46they'll notice those details and I like
42:49the details and if you're just making it
42:52for a disposable thing you know no one
42:55really used you like pulled your heart
42:57into that and you know people didn't
43:00even really notice right but when you
43:02get a lot of people using it intensely
43:04they notice all of those little bits um
43:08but where do I see it going well I think
43:12Community can get to a billion people
43:14right like Facebook groups has more than
43:16two billion users and it's not very
43:19good yeah it's true so I think it's fair
43:23that that's possible um and so helping a
43:27billion people find Community is the the
43:30mission and the
43:32vision
43:34and how are we going to try to do that
43:36by
43:38just making it better like by really
43:42helping I think the key to it is really
43:44helping people to earn a full-time
43:47income doing what they love online right
43:50like making money online it used to
43:53sound like a scam right but who doesn't
43:57want to make money online every the
44:00whole world wants to make money online
44:01now right and it's not abnormal to make
44:04money online anymore in fact even like
44:06corporates are working remote so they're
44:08technically making money online sure
44:11right um and doing something that you
44:14love
44:17like I noticed that I used to do all of
44:20these different
44:21Hobbies like BMX biking Counter Strike
44:25and and and skateboarding and
44:28things and I always noticed that once
44:30someone got to the point it's like
44:33turning pro where they got a sponsor or
44:35something once they could do it as their
44:38job like every day they got good so fast
44:44because they didn't have to do something
44:45else to support their hobby their hobby
44:48was their their income so it's like the
44:51moment you hit that point it's just boom
44:54like that and I noticed that too like
44:56the moment you can go all in on anything
45:00it it's insane the difference it makes
45:03like when I finally got the courage to
45:04leave my job and start this my first
45:08business it's like turning pro um and so
45:12I think helping I think we can help
45:15people discover their passions right
45:18which is definitely like something a lot
45:19of people need help with cuz if you ask
45:21people what they love they struggle to
45:22tell you but then when they find that
45:25thing to help them develop it like to
45:28get better at it to find other people
45:30that like it as much as they do to find
45:32friends related to your interest I think
45:34is really powerful a lot of people have
45:37interest but they don't know anyone that
45:39also has that interest so it's torture
45:41like talking to people about the weather
45:44and some sports and [ __ ]
45:47um and so that and then helping people
45:51to make it to turn pro to make
45:54like doing their hobby of full-time
45:57income right because like people Airbnb
46:00helped people just earn a full-time
46:03income like with their
46:07house or you could say like uber enabled
46:10anyone to become a taxi driver ABNB
46:13enabled anyone to become a hotel School
46:15enabled anyone to
46:17yeah and there's a great Steven
46:20pressfield book called turn and pro you
46:22ever read it I haven't but I've heard of
46:24I sent to you really it it's even the
46:26way it's l out it's like do you talk
46:28about art so so cool but he talks about
46:32like it's the identity shift so like
46:35when a skateboarder gets sponsored by
46:37whoever sponsors skateboarders it's like
46:40their identity is like I'm not a
46:42professional skateboarder and then like
46:44everything in their life gets like
46:46reorganized into that new identity and I
46:49love like PR field in the book he talks
46:52about like you know if you want to be a
46:53writer it's like you need to do things
46:55that like
46:56signal to your brain and your identity
46:58it's like you are a writer and what I
47:01love so much about school is that
47:04whatever someone's Niche is it's like
47:05they can sign up they can create a
47:08community and in a matter of minutes if
47:10they can convince one of their friends
47:12to join their group and pay them it's
47:14like they
47:16immediately can have that identity shift
47:19and I think that's super powerful you
47:21know I think the powerful thing isn't
47:23really the getting a person to pay cuz I
47:25think for the average
47:26person um well this is something I found
47:30interesting with the course industry
47:31right it's that making a course as a
47:35beginner there's something terribly
47:37wrong about
47:39that because you don't know anything
47:42about anything I think it's where the
47:44industry is so scummy or it feels scum
47:47cuz it's just like it's a joke what I
47:50just said to you right but that's what
47:52beginners are faced with they're like
47:54I've got to make a call course I don't
47:57know
47:58anything so they make some [ __ ] up and
48:01it feels so wrong yeah for a reason cuz
48:04it is wrong right and only so many
48:08people can like go through that pain
48:10barrier which means that it's just this
48:13industry isn't joinable for the vast
48:16majority of the world for a good
48:18reason and there's that's why the
48:20courses are painful to go through
48:24they're they're equally as pain on the
48:26other side I've noticed everyone dreads
48:28making a course and everyone
48:30dreads watching course so I'm like what
48:33the hell is everyone doing here um
48:37so I I think the beauty of school really
48:41is for people getting started because
48:44you do not have to think of yourself as
48:46an expert and you do not have to make a
48:50course and you don't have to charge
48:53that's the other obstacle like charging
48:55someone money for something when you
48:57don't believe in it is like it feels all
49:00wrong again right for good reason um but
49:04what is quite natural I think is just to
49:07to be interested in something and to
49:10bring together other interested people
49:12right yeah and there's nothing wrong
49:14about that and it's very natural and you
49:15don't have to make a course and you just
49:17bring everyone together and then you
49:18start to meet each other and then you've
49:21you've made some friends and when you've
49:23made a friend you probably will show up
49:25the next day
49:26and together that's when things start
49:28happening someone might they might start
49:31sharing videos from different places of
49:34trying to organize like what should we
49:36focus on what problems do we have and it
49:39kind of starts to emerge from there and
49:42now you're at least doing something and
49:45you're interacting with people you're
49:47learning things you're getting better
49:48you might not be making money yet but
49:53that's like no one ever just starts
49:55making money straight away like that
49:57that's [ __ ] right yeah like and it
50:02it's really important I think that
50:04people don't people understand that
50:07that's totally fine you just need to get
50:10started and you need to just hang out
50:12with other people that are interested in
50:13this thing and let the just trust that
50:17the path will kind of unfold for you
50:20right instead of needing to follow such
50:23a rigid path that doesn't feel right and
50:25almost Works um cuz I think that's what
50:28everyone's Journey really looks like if
50:30you were to reverse engineering right
50:32yeah it's kind of just like stumbling
50:33around following interests a little bit
50:35and then something happens and then
50:37something else happens and then it you
50:39see a need somewhere and you you test
50:42something and it turns into something
50:44and do you know what I'm 100% yeah so I
50:48think the beauty of it is for the
50:50beginners for getting
50:53started and the fact that
50:55it builds itself naturally as you go
50:59which means you never have to sit down
51:01and just like brute force all of this
51:04shitty content that you then Force
51:07everyone else to brute force on the
51:09other side so it's it's a much more
51:11enjoyable experience for the Creator
51:14yeah and for the members MH because they
51:16get to play too I think that's like what
51:20you just said there I think like if we
51:23can internalize that it's just a massive
51:26unlock like one of my favorite quotes
51:29is I come from a writing background so a
51:32lot of my like stuff's through that lens
51:35it says no tears in the writer no tears
51:38in the reader and I I think like you
51:40were talking earlier about like the
51:42frequency that certain artists even give
51:44out and I love that example like if
51:46there's Brute Force frustration in the
51:48cour maker there's going to be brood
51:49Force frustration in the course consumer
51:52whereas what I see with school and like
51:55I see it in you I see it in your team I
51:57see it in the DNA of your
52:00company and I see it in the use of the
52:02platform as there's just a joy and I
52:04think like when stuff's created from
52:07that place of Joy it's just very very
52:10attractive and everyone feels
52:12it yeah I think you're right
52:17yeah
52:20awesome what would you say to
52:23someone who is on the fence
52:26about dipping in the school after
52:28listening to
52:29this well at least try joining a
52:33group like it's pretty easy you can go
52:36to school.com and you can search for
52:39something anything
52:41like search for like if you're into
52:44guitars search that just join something
52:47like and just try
52:49it yeah because you might not be ready
52:52to build a community but I think
52:54everyone
52:56is looking for one like to be a part of
52:59or something
53:01yeah one of my favorite communities is
53:04Isaiah the the dunker yeah one of the
53:07tallest jumpers in the world basketball
53:09guy and he just carries so much joy for
53:13what he does and his community just has
53:16that energy cuz he kind of sets that
53:18tone yeah that's that's because it's
53:20pure I mean dude just loves to jump he's
53:22good at it so he brings together
53:24everyone else that wants to yeah
53:28100% Sam thank you for your time man
53:30appreciate it