#2 - Shana Lynn | Building Community

0:02Shena and what's your company called

0:05Community

0:06cultivated Community

0:08cultivated

0:11okay I'm just thinking how I'm going to

0:13do this little intro

0:15piece you can always film the intro

0:17later it don't

0:19matter

0:23cool the I always say like starting a

0:26hard a podcast is the hardest part it's

0:29like you can just get like your first

0:31two sentences in and then you're like

0:34good to

0:35go but getting those first two sentences

0:38it's like what are those first two

0:40sentences of the very first podcast ever

0:44maybe they can be the ones you just did

0:46maybe they could be I like it it's like

0:49who's on the podcast today Sam oh her

0:53name is shanana she does community stuff

0:55and you want to talk to her that's about

0:57it it's all we need the rest it's all in

0:59the show notes we got it

1:02so what do you mean by Community stuff

1:06yeah so Community stuff for me is

1:09helping people serve their Community

1:11better so that they can get better

1:13conversions keep their customers longer

1:15it's when I explain it to people who

1:18aren't in the online space I'm like I

1:19teach people how to be humans online

1:22because we're all really good at having

1:25real authentic relationships in person

1:28and serving people and creating

1:30connections for people and then we get

1:32online and it just gets formula right we

1:35start having posting schedules and I

1:39don't know it's like we just lose our

1:41human side we forget how to get people

1:45to do things and yeah I don't know so

1:49yeah that's what I do is I specifically

1:50help people with online programs build

1:53stronger communities so they can

1:54increase

1:55retention why do you think it got weird

1:59or people weed about

2:02it you know psychologically there's a

2:07lot of data that tells us that we need

2:10this like we need that in person there's

2:12so much that happens when you're sitting

2:14in a room with somebody that can't

2:16happen when you're looking at some

2:18profile picture online and so we've

2:22created in technology we've created this

2:25interesting dichotomy where we have a

2:27barrier between the humanness of the

2:31person that we're talking to and our

2:33brain wants all of those other

2:35psychological touch points that it

2:37doesn't get and at the same time we have

2:40this incredible opportunity because we

2:42can connect with more people than we've

2:44ever been able to connect with before

2:46which increases our ability to have an

2:50impact but I also think for a lot of

2:51people creates this this struggle with

2:55how do you actually scale connection and

2:58relationships with people

3:01people so what's your

3:06solution yeah um it it's pretty simple

3:10and it doesn't come from the online

3:12space it just comes from what I've seen

3:16in studying communities since the dawn

3:19of time like this is community building

3:21is nothing new and I think we really we

3:24struggle when we try and create new

3:27Concepts for the online space without

3:30looking at just generally in history how

3:33do humans

3:35behave and so I I have this this

3:37framework that basically is formulated

3:40around four things and the first one

3:42being cause and that's do we have a

3:45common purpose in a common Mission as a

3:47community like what is the Northstar

3:49that we're working towards and if you

3:50look at all big movements that have

3:53happened if you look at more recent ones

3:56like black lives matter if you look at

3:58you know um ones before that where it

4:02you know you have like the Civil Rights

4:03Movement you have um political movements

4:07you have religious movement it all has

4:10formulated around having a common cause

4:13women's right to vote whatever it might

4:15be and so how do we unite people around

4:18that give people a common vision and

4:20purpose and then secondly is culture

4:23what are the beliefs behaviors and

4:24boundaries that Define who we are people

4:27want to know especially now more than

4:28ever like who are you and what do people

4:32like us do if we're here for this

4:34purpose and you're my people what does

4:38that look like what am I signing up for

4:41that's where we get that identity you

4:43know a lot of people talk about you got

4:44to give people an identity it's so vague

4:47it's like okay so do I just give them a

4:50name right and now all of a sudden they

4:52have an identity an identity comes from

4:56having a clear purpose and understanding

4:58the culture in which I'm thriving so

5:03having those two things I think is the

5:04most important one it's the stuff that

5:06most people don't do and then the other

5:07two elements are communication how do I

5:10communicate to you how do I hear from

5:12you and then how do I help you

5:13communicate with each other and then the

5:16fourth element is the connection piece

5:19and the biggest mistake people make with

5:22connection is forgetting that connection

5:25always starts with safety if we don't

5:27feel safe we can't connect um we as

5:31creatives often times we don't like

5:33structure we don't like

5:36leadership but those things are required

5:38for people to feel safe and if we want

5:41people to be vulnerable share

5:44authentically to trust then we need to

5:47have safety that just goes back to basic

5:49psychology M those hierarchy

5:53needs so how do you actually do that

5:55like let's say well I'm I'm kind of

5:58interested cuz I've got online community

6:00right yeah

6:02and we well I'm really interested in the

6:05safety part first so like how do you do

6:08that like I've got an online community

6:10how do I even measure if there is safety

6:13or sense if there is safety yeah uh the

6:18the first piece is safety comes

6:20from two things one is trust and one is

6:25Clarity right so trust is authenticity

6:28and integrity you are who you say you

6:30are and you do what you'll say you'll do

6:32and as much as it shouldn't be unique it

6:37is um it really is unique for people

6:40to be somebody that follows through on

6:43the things that they're going to do and

6:45that they show up authentically now

6:47authentically doesn't mean that you have

6:50to share everything and share your life

6:53but who you portray inside of your

6:55community is really who you are and when

6:58you go first and you do that even

7:02pushing that that barrier of what people

7:04might be comfortable with you're giving

7:07your community permission to do it so

7:08you have to trust your community first

7:11before they're going to trust you so

7:14pretty practical example we can start

7:17this kind of trust relationship and

7:20establishing with a welcome Post in the

7:22community so you have a welcome post and

7:25you could just say hey introduce

7:27yourself I don't know about you but

7:28anytime I've ever been in a room of

7:30people and somebody just vaguely tells

7:32me to introduce myself I just kind of

7:34white face no idea what to say uh

7:37stumble on my

7:39words we want to give people very clear

7:42directions on introducing themselves so

7:43introduce yourself below by answering

7:45like these three questions and you start

7:47with something really easy where are you

7:49from then you kind of move a little bit

7:52more personal like why why did you join

7:55this community and then with that third

7:57question you try and get them to push

8:01that boundary of comfort just a little

8:04bit right so you might ask something

8:08what do you think is the going to be the

8:10biggest challenge to you reaching your

8:12goals in this program or whatever it

8:14might be or if you um look back a year

8:19from now and you have reached your goal

8:21how does that impact the people that you

8:24love so those are the the types of

8:27questions that

8:30reveal a little bit about somebody it

8:32takes you from being just a number to

8:34being a human right with internal needs

8:38external

8:39relationships and so when we have a post

8:41like that and we go first in sharing

8:44those things about us right um and then

8:47we connect genuinely with people when

8:50they share them we're building that

8:52trust relationship because they've

8:54they've just like gone out on a Ledge

8:56and said I'm going to put myself out

8:57there is anybody going to catch me and

8:59so often we ask people to put themselves

9:01out there but we don't actually catch

9:02them they're not they don't feel heard

9:04they don't feel seen they don't feel

9:06accepted and it's pretty easy to help

9:09people feel that it's just by

9:10acknowledging what they've said being

9:12curious asking more so I really love

9:15when people have a welcome post like

9:17that and they go deeper they don't just

9:20let the welcome post be something that

9:22gets more engagement in their Facebook

9:23group or something like you you hear

9:25that all the time like oh have a post

9:27tell people to post a gift or whatever

9:28it might be because it gets more

9:30engagement but when we have people post

9:32answers to these questions and we go in

9:34the comments and we ask them tell me

9:35more about that I'm curious why is that

9:39important to you we're establishing this

9:41trust that's built over one

9:43communication back and forth over time

9:47right got

9:50it and is there a way to know if like

9:54your members of your community are

9:57experiencing like if you have a safety

9:59issue or not cuz it seems like an

10:00important thing like what are some signs

10:02I guess that you have a safety

10:06issue yeah so one of the signs that you

10:09have a safety issue is when you've had

10:12high engagement in your community um

10:15with people coming I I will say this you

10:19can have surface level high engagement

10:23right but where you know you really have

10:25trust is when people are coming when

10:27things aren't all like rainbows in you

10:29unicorns they're not just coming with

10:31their WIS they're coming with their mess

10:33they're coming with things that they

10:34don't have figured

10:36out and you know that that's the only

10:39place they're talking about that problem

10:41or concern or asking that question right

10:44that's when you know you have trust and

10:46you'll start to see that go

10:49away when trust is broken and it's not

10:53necessarily you've broken that trust but

10:56there can be people in the community

10:59that make your community unsafe for

11:00others and this can be a hard concept

11:03for Community creators but to realize

11:07that your responsibility is actually to

11:09the community as a whole not the

11:11individual so it puts us in this tough

11:13position sometime where we end up having

11:15to play the bouncer role um to protect

11:19the community at large but there can be

11:22people in communities that I mean call

11:25them a know-it-all call them critical

11:28call them whatever you want

11:30that can make others feel unsafe in

11:33sharing and you'll notice people stop

11:36sharing as much um that's one of the

11:40biggest

11:41indicators another indicator is that

11:44you're not hearing what people want more

11:48of or what they want to see less of so

11:50if people stop talking to you that could

11:53be an indicator that you've stopped

11:55either stopped conversation with them so

11:57you you haven't opened that channel and

11:59I I think it's really important that we

12:00always keep that clear and open Channel

12:02with our

12:03community or that for whatever reason

12:06there's something that you've done that

12:08your community now feels unsafe to

12:11express concern

12:13or um unhappiness with your product or

12:18your program or whatever it might be so

12:21if everybody thinks that everything

12:24you're doing is awesome and you never

12:26hear anybody complain you never hear

12:30anybody saying but what about this or

12:32why did you do it that

12:33way you probably lost trust it's just

12:37like a a human imagine your marriage

12:39right so you and your wife like she just

12:43tells you how awesome you are all the

12:44time and you never have a disagreement

12:47and you never have to have a deeper

12:49conversation to get aligned around you

12:52know whatever your next decision is

12:55around your kid or whatever it might

12:57be you'd probably know like okay like

13:01something's going on here we if we're

13:05having a genuine relationship here and

13:07we have trust we should be able to

13:10express when we're not totally satisfied

13:13with what's going on and then you you're

13:15able to get through it you know there's

13:16this um Community Development life cycle

13:20I didn't develop this this is back when

13:22people were studying how communities

13:23were formed in real real life um but it

13:27starts there's four phases it's nor

13:29norming storm uh forming storming

13:32norming and Performing and in that

13:35forming phase people are kind of quiet

13:37they're uncertain they're feeling it out

13:39they don't really understand the culture

13:41and really they haven't figured out

13:43their boundaries yet it's like the first

13:45time you put kids on a playground they

13:47just kind of like stare at each other

13:49they're not quite sure what all we can

13:51do but by the end of the school year

13:52they're like climbing the fences and

13:55doing everything they can but you have

13:57to start with this sort of uncertain

13:59phase they're trying to see like hey

14:01what's okay what's not okay you have

14:02your people who will kind of step out

14:04and push those boundaries and you have

14:05your people that just kind of sit back

14:07and wait to see what happens but what

14:11will happen is is that as people start

14:14to push boundaries and as some people

14:16start to be more vocal and express their

14:18opinions and as everybody trying to

14:20tries to figure out the lay of the land

14:22you can have this storming phase and for

14:24some communities and in some

14:27Seasons that can be pretty hard

14:29uh whether it's a new community or

14:31whether let's say you just did a launch

14:33right and you had 500 members and now

14:36you have a thousand members you just

14:37doubled the size of your community that

14:40can send your community right back into

14:42this kind of forming and storming phase

14:45but you can move through that phase

14:47pretty fast if you have clear cause and

14:51clear culture already established

14:53because you just look for these

14:55realignment moments right where you get

14:57to just sort of tap somebody on the

14:58shoulder and say say hey I get your

15:00intentions are good but like we don't do

15:02that here and here's why M you know you

15:05just get to like bring people back into

15:08alignment but it's totally natural for

15:11communities to move through that and

15:13this storming phase when we get through

15:15it your community is more realigned and

15:18they are more committed to the cause

15:20they're more committed to the culture

15:22they appreciate that if you've had to be

15:24a bouncer and kick somebody out they

15:26like are more committed to you because

15:28of it they're like thank you for

15:30protecting this community this is

15:32important to me and I'm even more in

15:33alignment with you which is what leads

15:35us to that like norming phase of now we

15:37know our Norms we can function within

15:39those and then performing where we

15:40actually get to start collaborating and

15:43it's like every school project you've

15:44ever

15:46done this is good I'm getting lots of

15:49ideas for questions yeah

15:52um because this is super relevant

15:54because I've got multiple

15:57communities and I know a lot of people

15:59in my audience do as well and I I'm just

16:03trying to figure out some kind of order

16:06to ask these questions in

16:12so I'm really curious

16:15on well let's just start with existing

16:18communities and then we'll move to

16:19starting a community yeah so with an

16:21existing Community you know that you've

16:25got an issue if people basically aren't

16:28communicating or or they're not being

16:29honest or there's just a lack of

16:32negative feedback it sounds like it

16:33sounds like there should always be a

16:35healthy amount of NE but even negative

16:38feedback is there's nothing actually

16:40wrong about it no you're you're learning

16:43from your community and I I think so

16:46it's a healthy sign right it's so

16:48healthy I think a lot of people are

16:50terrified of that yeah because well we

16:53all have an ego right

16:56and it's just like everything in the

16:58Entre R preneurial Journey right we

17:00don't it's we we don't want to

17:03disappoint people we don't want people

17:05to not like us but if we're standing

17:07really strong for a cause and if we have

17:10a really established culture our

17:13community will not be for everybody and

17:16that's okay because if your community is

17:18for everybody it's for nobody I mean

17:20look at every movement that has ever

17:23happened in human history there were

17:25people that were on the side of the

17:27movement and there were people that were

17:28not on the side of the

17:31movement yeah I think some people have

17:33this fear that

17:35like this PO let's say someone did a

17:38negative post that this could gain

17:41traction if I don't delete it now kind

17:43of thing do you know what I mean yeah

17:45yeah

17:46so it's interesting cuz we had one of

17:49these happen just this week cuz you know

17:51the Black Friday deal we're doing is

17:53wibe that's discounted

17:56and the members of webe were were not

17:59happy about it right yeah and they

18:02expressed that which I guess is a good

18:04sign first of all and then that thread

18:06kind of took

18:07off

18:09and I definitely I was I had this moment

18:12I'm remembering it clearly cuz it was

18:14just a few days ago and I was like do I

18:16delete this cuz more people could come

18:18in here see this and then they're going

18:20to join in on

18:21it but then I was talking to my team

18:24about it and we're like well I we get it

18:27they have a valid point actually so if

18:29we delete it it's not going to fix

18:31anything really right so instead we

18:33thought well let's just leave it but now

18:35I need to do another post and address

18:37it and talk about it and I need to make

18:41it right for them right and that's what

18:45I ended up doing and I left the negative

18:47one there but then some then it we

18:51totally got like one everyone back and

18:54then one guy even said this is why I'm a

18:56loyal customer because you listen and

18:59you make things right and this kind of

19:01stuff so that's what you would recommend

19:04like never delete the negative feedback

19:06cuz I guess if I did delete that and

19:09acted like nothing happened then someone

19:12might not share again right yeah well

19:16and the thing for me is I never like to

19:18tell anybody specifics about how to run

19:20their community so I have clients that

19:23they they don't allow any negative

19:25feedback in their Community but what we

19:27do none

19:29their PR weird well it is but they have

19:34a very very very strong culture and a

19:37very very focused cause and a lot of my

19:40clients are life coach School clients

19:43and so they're people can have a

19:45tendency to not manage their mind

19:48well and so if they have people really

19:50focused on this schoal let's say it's

19:52weight loss for example and then this

19:54negative post like takes off inside of

19:57the community with they don't want is to

19:59distract the other 10,000 people in

20:01their Community from that goal so what I

20:04always recommend is that if you feel

20:08like for whatever reason you need to

20:10remove a post you always open up another

20:13channel for that conversation to happen

20:16so I was just messaging with a client

20:18last night they um had something

20:21happened in their Community there was

20:22somebody in their community that was

20:24posting an event or promoting an event

20:26it wasn't this person's and it wasn't

20:28the client but it's like this

20:30$3,000 Retreat and they're like hey

20:33let's let's all go to this Retreat

20:34together I'm going to start a separate

20:35Facebook group or a separate community

20:38and we'll we'll and this person

20:40genuinely just is like Hey we're getting

20:42the community connected but what she

20:43doesn't see is um the potential that

20:47that has to Splinter the community and

20:51cause issues because people now see this

20:53event as associated with the brand Etc

20:56so the um Community man manager had

20:59already deleted the post and we just had

21:00a conversation where I said so just

21:03reach out to her and get on the phone

21:04with her and talk to her and that's

21:07genuinely I think so many issues that

21:10blow up in communities could be solved

21:12with a phone call but we just forget

21:14like I could just I could just pick up

21:16the phone and talk to this person but

21:20often what we do is we do this like back

21:21and forth on inside of our community or

21:24we do back and forth on email but really

21:27when you get to humans on the phone and

21:30they're talking you get to an

21:31understanding a lot faster but you did

21:34the right thing in that you said okay I

21:37don't really see any issue with leaving

21:39this up and they have a point and we

21:43need to make it right which is where

21:46that leadership piece comes in like when

21:48we talk about um trust we talk about

21:50Clarity and Clarity comes from structure

21:53and Leadership when there's not clear

21:55leadership people don't know who to

21:59trust they they are looking around to

22:02say who's leading this community and if

22:04it's not you it'll be somebody else

22:06inevitably but you showed up in

22:09leadership in integrity and said look

22:11hey this was a misstep we didn't think

22:13through how this would impact you all

22:16you brought it to our attention and now

22:18we're going to do something about it and

22:20again that's one of those realignment

22:22moments that really helps build trust

22:26yeah so I guess the reason why those

22:28people that you were mentioning they

22:31kind of want to delete it for the same

22:32reason they don't want it to spread you

22:34know what I mean yeah I found I've had

22:36an interesting experience with this

22:39because when we started building

22:41school we had the school Community where

22:44people would share feedback and at first

22:46it was just all

22:49like we're missing this thing's missing

22:52like a thousand different things right

22:54yeah and some people on my team were

22:55like but if people I don't think we

22:58should have this because it just makes

23:00our product look bad and then my

23:02argument was it is bad like that's what

23:07it is we're not changing that if we just

23:09remove this right and I was

23:11like my worst nightmare is not knowing

23:16what's missing or what's bad because

23:18then I then I can't fix it but provided

23:21I know what it is then I can fix it and

23:24eventually there'll be less and less and

23:26less and eventually people will say that

23:28love it and at that moment you've really

23:32like won the community right cuz

23:35everyone you got everyone in there you

23:36never deleted anything you asked for

23:38criticism and you just went through it

23:41one by one until people had run out of

23:43things and then they said I love this

23:46yeah yeah although that took like 3

23:48years so it takes time

23:52but I think people are really afraid of

23:55that though that initially there's going

23:57to be criticism and then your community

24:01looks it doesn't look good but I guess

24:06yeah do you know what I'm talking about

24:07people think that every it should be

24:09amazing and everyone should be saying

24:10This Is Awesome from the first moment

24:13but the way you get to that is by

24:16actually hearing all the stuff that

24:18needs to happen and then addressing it

24:20all yeah I have oh so many thoughts on

24:23this okay so um my first thought is is

24:26this is generally Human Nature to think

24:29about the thing that we don't have and

24:31not all the things that we do and so

24:33it's no different with school they

24:36probably had a lot of features that they

24:38loved and thought were amazing but we

24:40always are looking for the things that

24:42we don't have in life and that we don't

24:45have in school especially when we're

24:47asking for feedback they're like oh we

24:49need this this and this this isn't

24:50working so by Nature you're you're going

24:53to get more negative in that but this to

24:59me is the shift that is happening with

25:03business where you have old business

25:06which was bunch of smart people sat in a

25:09room they spent a whole bunch of money a

25:12whole bunch of time and a whole you know

25:16bunch of investment and all of this to

25:18build some type of product right and

25:20then they had it perfect in their eyes

25:24they put it out in the marketplace and

25:26they start selling it and that is the

25:28Pro

25:28they might do some market research some

25:31focus groups talk to a few people but

25:33that's how products were developed but

25:36we're not in that time anymore we're in

25:38the community-built product era where we

25:43don't have to have it all figured out

25:44and that's the beauty of it we can do

25:47the 20% version and then as a community

25:50we can build it together and that's so

25:51cool about what you're doing with school

25:55is you have basically created this

25:59platform and said look here are the

26:00bones this is what we

26:03have we're going to build this thing

26:05together no you guys aren't going to be

26:07coding it but we're going to listen

26:10we're going to pay attention to what you

26:11want what most of you want and as long

26:14as it it's in alignment with our core

26:17values as a company and who we want to

26:20serve with this platform we're going to

26:23make that happen and so what you get is

26:25a much better product and not only do

26:27you get a much better products but you

26:29get a product that has a loyal Community

26:31because they have ownership of what you

26:33built like they feel like they are a

26:36part of the school team and like they've

26:38helped build school which takes them

26:40really fast there's this like Community

26:43member cycle where they go from just

26:45joining the community to actually

26:48engaging with the community to sharing

26:50about the community to lead being a

26:52leader in the community and you're able

26:54to speed that up because you are

26:57advocating for for people to give

26:59feedback you're listening to that

27:00feedback you're making changes and now

27:03they have a deeper established identity

27:05as a member of your community they feel

27:06more ownership of it and then ultimately

27:08advocate for it better which is what you

27:11want right the best marketing or people

27:13going out and talking about your product

27:15and that's what you get when you have a

27:16community-built

27:19product yeah I think it's just this

27:21thing that people have

27:23like it's like starting a YouTube

27:25channel everyone's going to see you've

27:27got zero views and zero subscribers yeah

27:30so you don't look very

27:32successful

27:34and that's probably the same thing with

27:36the community right like they want it to

27:39be to look impressive immediately so

27:41they want to add a lot of people really

27:43fast and then they want it to all be

27:45everyone saying how awesome the

27:46community is real fast but it has to go

27:48through that it has to go through the

27:52beta stage kind of like and there the

27:55bugs have to be fixed kind of like and

27:58and I don't know that that stage ever

27:59ends you know I I work with a lot of um

28:03membership owners who have seven and

28:04eight figure memberships and we're

28:06working on retention strategies and the

28:08first thing that we do is establish

28:11metrics and the second thing that we do

28:12is a member survey because most of them

28:15have not surveyed their members in the

28:17longest time and we're we're kind of in

28:20the cycle where members ask for

28:23something or one member asks for

28:24something and we create for that member

28:26and then you turn around and your

28:28program has like 5050 different

28:30deliverables and like you don't even

28:33know how you got there you just kept

28:35creating you don't know what people are

28:37using you don't know what the what

28:39they're actually getting results from

28:42like what deliverables are actually

28:44helping them the most why are they not

28:46using it why are they leaving are they

28:48satisfied are they not so we dig into

28:51all of that and it's fascinating what we

28:54find like we just completed this with

28:55one client and they have all these

28:58things that they've added these fancy

28:59use software tools and if people do the

29:02basic like PDF meal plan and workout

29:05plans that they've been doing forever

29:07that's what makes them their best

29:08customer so we have to continually

29:11create that feedback loop with our

29:13customers and you naturally have the

29:15ability to do that because you've

29:17created this community but a lot of

29:18people don't and so if you don't have

29:20that definitely be serving your

29:22customers on the regular getting

29:24feedback from

29:25them see stay on the existing

29:28communities I want to get to like people

29:31starting one from scratch like after

29:33that

29:34but so existing communities you know

29:37you've got a problem if people aren't

29:40sharing feedback or being

29:43honest or if they're just saying

29:45positive things

29:47um how do you turn that around if it's

29:51already kind of gone

29:54bad yeah if you can identify what caused

29:58that trust issue um it can be a number

30:03of things sometimes there was some

30:06storming in the community and because

30:08you were afraid or uncertain about how

30:12to respond you just let it play out and

30:15waited until it died down and you didn't

30:18protect your community during that time

30:20meaning you just kind of let conflict

30:23happen or you just kind of let this

30:25vocal person come in um and things got

30:29crazy and chaotic in there for a while

30:30and you you just kind of watched it

30:32happen you didn't really lead well

30:33through that and then your community is

30:37now different afterwards and you may be

30:40able to point back to that for a lot of

30:41people they can point back to

30:432020 honestly because there was a lot

30:45that happened inside of the communities

30:47there was a lot of controversy that CPT

30:49into a lot of business communities in

30:512020 and people just frankly didn't

30:52handle it well and so you have some

30:55repairing to do just like in a normal

30:57relationship like in a marriage

30:58relationship if you feel that

31:01disconnection you have to invite in

31:03reconnection by being doing some

31:05repairing and often times that's just

31:08going to your community and saying I

31:10ghosted you and I'm

31:12sorry so you think that's one of the

31:14biggest causes of this is people the

31:17leader disappears yeah they they either

31:20disappear or they ignore things that

31:23they shouldn't be ignoring like they

31:24ignore negative feedback or they ignore

31:27conflict that's happening or they just

31:29stop showing up uh as entrepreneurs I

31:31see this a lot we get excited about

31:34something new so we start this community

31:36and then we get bored really easy to get

31:40bored so um we get bored we move on to

31:44something else we um get overwhelmed by

31:48the community there's lots of people

31:50that are amazing business owners and

31:53entrepreneurs but they feel a heaviness

31:56about showing up for hundreds of or

31:59thousands of people on a regular basis

32:02and so they don't realize it but

32:04subconsciously it's draining their

32:05energy and if that thing is draining

32:07their energy then they stop doing it

32:09they stop showing up and so it's usually

32:12not a conscious decision to stop showing

32:15up fully for your community usually we

32:19do it in the name of system like

32:21creating systems or scaling right so

32:24we're like oh my team can just do that

32:26or oh we're just going to schedule even

32:28now I I just saw um this new feature

32:33that was released that was like okay you

32:34can schedule in your group you can

32:37schedule the same post to go out every

32:38week on the same day and time and we'll

32:40just like automatically post it for you

32:42isn't that real line like no it we do

32:44all of these things like in the name of

32:46having more time freedom and like not a

32:49community what if that was M like every

32:52day at 9:00 a.m. on Wednesdays Sam you

32:54got a text from me that was like hey Sam

32:56how are you what are your wins for the

32:58week you'd be like you I mean maybe the

33:01first time I did it you'd be like oh so

33:03cool she she cares that's awesome second

33:06week you'd be like I don't think I'm

33:08going to respond to this third week I

33:11I'm in your block list right you're just

33:14ignoring me at this point and yet that's

33:16how we treat our communities because we

33:18want to create more systems we want to

33:20be able to scale but subconsciously it's

33:22because that Community doesn't light us

33:24up and just circling all the way back to

33:27the beginning when you have a clear

33:28cause that you're passionate about and

33:30when you have a really strong Culture

33:32Your Community is a place that lights

33:34you up it should be a place that you're

33:36excited to be in and be engaged in those

33:39conversations and if it's not that's the

33:41fix like how do you create the community

33:44that you're you're waking up excited to

33:46hop in on and see what conversations

33:48were happening while you were gone

33:50because so often as business owners we

33:53build these communities we just kind of

33:54let them become mediocre we stop showing

33:57up because it doesn't light us up and

33:59then over time people in our community

34:01stop showing up and we wonder why and

34:03it's like well you didn't want to show

34:04up there you weren't excited about being

34:07in your community I have one client

34:09where we just did like a full full redo

34:12of all their Community guidelines of all

34:14of their like alignment around their

34:16culture for that very reason because I

34:18had an honest conversation with her and

34:20she's like shanon I don't want to be in

34:23my community I'm like yeah I want to go

34:25on to that point a little bit cuz

34:28yeah we're still like kind of focusing

34:30on existing communities and what

34:34repairing one that's broken but it seems

34:36like this makes a lot of sense that this

34:38is the cause of most communities kind of

34:41becoming broken

34:43is the person that's responsible the

34:47leader of the community gets burnt out

34:50and then stops showing up yeah yeah and

34:53I can totally understand that because if

34:55you try to take on the

34:58like I think some people think that a

34:59community is they've got to answer

35:01everything right um and that isn't

35:04sustainable I don't know how you can do

35:06that ongoing right

35:09so what do you suggest there like is

35:14that an unhealthy Community if someone's

35:16running it like that is that even a

35:17community I think it's often times it is

35:21necessary in the beginning because

35:23you're modeling the kind of behavior

35:25that you want to see so sitting in a

35:27example yeah setting an example but um I

35:31teach so I I train Community managers as

35:35well to lead in communities like this

35:37and support business owners inside of

35:39their community and one of the things

35:41that I teach them is my arc response

35:43model and it's this framework around

35:46thinking through how to respond to a

35:48post um and I give them this framework

35:51because the the most important part of

35:53it is the C and the arc model which is

35:57connect

35:58and the goal of that is who else in this

36:01community can I connect them to so my

36:05job is not to be the expert my job is to

36:09connect them with somebody that can

36:11either support them or relate to them so

36:14when you think about every response as

36:17like I want to acknowledge what they

36:18just said I want to reference a resource

36:21if I can inside of my training or you

36:24know you might be referencing like hey

36:26that's that's on the scope it's coming

36:28out in two weeks or whatever it might be

36:31but then like who could I connect them

36:33to oh um Tim asked a question like that

36:37last week you guys must have a similar

36:39Community you guys should connect right

36:42or somebody ask a question about like I

36:45don't know Instagram ads and it's my

36:47community I'm the business Expert I

36:49should answer that well no if there's

36:52somebody in your community that's an

36:53expert in Instagram ads just tell them

36:55like hey

36:58knows a lot about Instagram ads maybe

37:00she can help you and what you've done

37:02there is you've started to give people

37:04permission to respond so that's the

37:07first thing that I recommend is is

37:09making those connections by basically

37:12giving your people an invitation to be

37:15the one who answers the questions and

37:17then the second thing is to create space

37:22for your community uh a lot of times we

37:27we feel like like well people are paying

37:28to be a part of this community or I'm

37:30the leader so I need to be the one

37:31responding and it should never go more

37:33than 12 hours without a response or

37:35people are going to feel left out but

37:37what happens is is once the leader

37:40responds or even the community manager

37:43responds it takes a pretty bold person

37:45to then like follow up with a a

37:48differing opinion about that right so

37:51let's say somebody asked a question

37:53about the future of community platforms

37:55inside of school and you immedi medely

37:57came in and you responded with like your

38:00thoughts around the future of community

38:02platforms uh it's going to take a pretty

38:04strong person to come in and be like I

38:06actually disagree with Sam I actually

38:08think it's going to be this or it's

38:11going to be that right so we have to

38:13create space for our people to go first

38:16and then when they do validate that so I

38:20I really see people create the space

38:22sometimes they let people respond and

38:23then they come in and like put in

38:25whatever they were going to say without

38:26reading the comments

38:27and I just I always look for

38:30opportunities to recognize because

38:32that's one of the things around

38:34retention like one of the biggest

38:36elements of retention is recognition um

38:39so if we can give people recognition in

38:41the littlest ways like hey Tim that

38:44response was amazing thank you so much

38:47for pointing him to that resource um

38:50awesome like great what Tim said funny

38:54because just whatever he said I call

38:57that like public customer support system

39:01it's like a customer support ticket we

39:03email support at except it's happening

39:06in public right um which is not really a

39:10community but that's what I think that's

39:12how I think most people run them and

39:14I've definitely been guilty of that in

39:16the beginning but what's interesting is

39:19that one that really sucks to do as the

39:22person CU you feel this constant burden

39:25yeah every time your phone gets a

39:27notific you just like cring a little on

39:29inside or you just feel like you've just

39:31got to do it every day all the time and

39:33that it's you're burning out right but

39:37the other thing is it kind of sucks for

39:38the members cuz it's not really it's not

39:40interactive for

39:42them but I think the you know it's funny

39:46what happened with me is I just got too

39:48busy that I couldn't do it and then

39:52that's when the communities actually got

39:54better mhm which I found really

39:56interesting and what ended up happening

39:58is some of the other people in the

40:01community had like my shadow was kind of

40:05taken away from them so they could like

40:07shine you know what I mean and then they

40:11started to get more vocal and share what

40:13they were doing and then they kind of

40:17became the

40:18celebrities and then when I asked my

40:20community what they wanted more of they

40:22were like we want to hear more success

40:23stories of people that aren't you

40:27which is funny well and they probably

40:28feel like they can't relate to you

40:31because of your prior business success

40:34right you've had this journey of going

40:36from consulting.com to school and in

40:39some ways I'm sure for a lot of them it

40:40feels a bit unrelatable right so they're

40:44able to relate to these other people

40:46more but I I want you to talk a bit a

40:48little bit more about this because a lot

40:51of people that I talk to that is the

40:52very thing that they fear is

40:55having people

40:57shine more than them be seen as

41:01celebrities inside of their Community

41:03they they feel like people are kind of

41:05mooching off what they've built so talk

41:07I mean talk to me a little bit about why

41:11you see that as a benefit and not a

41:15problem well I didn't do it by Design

41:19first of all if it was I think this is

41:22really hard when you're the in this

41:24expert industry right where you're

41:26supposed to where people are paying you

41:28to be the expert you definitely feel

41:31like you should be the expert all the

41:34time right and when I was in that

41:36position I left hardly any room for

41:38anyone to talk and what is really

41:41interesting about it is

41:43that like really smart talented people

41:46don't want to be in that kind of

41:47environment cuz it's not very

41:49collaborative and it's more

41:51like it's more like idol worship than

41:54like yeah Community right so then I I

41:58got too busy building school and

42:01everything to to be able to be the

42:03expert in everything so I couldn't so I

42:07started to let other people come up and

42:09talk on like YouTube organic or YouTube

42:11ads or these different parts and I

42:14noticed that the audience liked it

42:16more and then naturally what started

42:19happening is more talented people

42:21started to join cuz they were like I

42:23want to be a part of that kind of thing

42:25where I can contribute contribute and

42:28then the audience liked more and then we

42:29started getting even better people and I

42:31was like holy what have I been

42:33doing

42:34because this way like the the talent

42:38level went up a lot and then they shared

42:42and then the audience liked it more and

42:44then that attracted even more talent and

42:47then I just got the I had to shift

42:50though from

42:52being the guru or like expert whatever

42:56to being like

42:57the facilitator mhm um so I think and I

43:02didn't do that by design it was just an

43:05accident that turned out to be really

43:08good so that's I think it's hard when

43:11you're when you're you're knowing to be

43:13the expert it's just hard to let go of

43:15that

43:17control but I think what you saw and

43:19this is it's sort of a a fascinating way

43:23to look at it but we talked earlier

43:25about how do you know if you have trust

43:28or really the question is really how do

43:29you know the health of your community

43:31right and I think the biggest way to

43:33know is what happens when you leave when

43:36you don't show up what happens does your

43:39community continue to thrive right

43:41because when you look at movements right

43:43if if if the Civil Rights Movement

43:46relied on Martin Luther King Jr being in

43:48every room it never would have happened

43:52but he was the one that became the

43:55figure head if you will that said this

43:58is where we're going this is what we're

44:00doing this is how we're going to get

44:01here he just lit that torch but then he

44:04was able to pass that on to other people

44:07that then carried that torch along and

44:10whether that's a community manager

44:12whether that is you know different

44:13leaders that rise up in your community

44:16it all starts like from that base of

44:18having a really strong

44:20foundation in which your community can

44:23Thrive because if you didn't already

44:24have structure culture purpose around

44:28that Community it would have been a crap

44:30show when you came back right but it

44:32wasn't they were all people who

44:35understood the culture who understood

44:37the mission who were in

44:39alignment and they showed

44:42up yeah I think that's what now that

44:46I've experienced it it's definitely

44:48better like to have a community where

44:50it's all about the members and not

44:53you and the members add the value not

44:57just you it's way more fun it's way more

45:00collaborative and it does attract people

45:03that are more talented that can

45:05contribute more and improve the value

45:07for everyone I just wonder why people

45:10don't do that do you have any thoughts

45:14on why they I mean I shared mine but do

45:16you have thoughts on this on why people

45:18don't that's obviously collaborative

45:21there's not many of those I don't

45:24think no I I think it

45:27I I'm always like it just so much of it

45:29goes back to Ego and um it's like ego

45:35and greed right I've built this this is

45:37mine these are my people you're going to

45:41take them from me or whatever because as

45:44business owners we all come with our own

45:46stories our own baggage and many of us

45:48have been burned along the way whether

45:50in business or in personal life so we

45:52don't trust people and again going back

45:54to like do you trust your own community

45:57you know um and I think we we we do a

46:00few things one we we're think we think

46:03we're a lot more important than we

46:04really are right we're not as important

46:07um we think we own way more than we own

46:11so we created this community and we

46:13think we own it we own the the rights to

46:16the community the people everything in

46:18there and we're afraid about what giving

46:20up any of that control looks like

46:23control gives us this feeling of Safety

46:26and Security that a lot of people want

46:28to

46:29have but we also forget that we can

46:33recover from literally anything and in

46:37this world where people are so afraid

46:40now of like being cancelled like don't

46:42say the wrong thing um we built this

46:46fear I think so people want control so

46:50that they don't miss step or that a

46:52mistake doesn't happen or they don't you

46:55know lose business or whatever it might

46:57be or lose the positioning as the expert

47:00because they have this scarcity mindset

47:03like there's only so many pie slices to

47:06go around which isn't true right we just

47:09create more pies but they think there's

47:12just you know a limited amount to go

47:14around there's a li limited amount of

47:16thought leadership they want to have

47:18control because they're afraid of

47:20somebody saying something or misst

47:21stepping but we can rebound from any of

47:25that like we can come back from so much

47:27I know like for you I mean you had a

47:30very successful business and I know you

47:32made decisions to totally shift that and

47:34go into a totally new business and I I

47:39think you could be a person that would

47:41say like yeah like there's no like left

47:44or right

47:46turn that we need to be afraid of

47:49because we're resilient we can continue

47:52to

47:53create and I yeah I think it just comes

47:55down to fear like we we think we're ego

47:58and fear we think we're more important

48:00than we really are and we want control

48:02we're afraid of what is going to

48:06happen yeah I think for me I just did it

48:09for so long like I've

48:10been coming up with content and running

48:14communities and courses now for like 10

48:16years and when you do something for a

48:18long enough time the most important

48:20thing you care about

48:22is like cost of Maintenance yeah right

48:26because

48:27CU cuz you've you you don't want to do

48:30anything that's really high maintenance

48:32cuz you know it's not going to last cuz

48:33you've lived through enough of these

48:35cycles

48:37and I you just everyone gets burnt out

48:40when it's the they have to provide

48:42everything yeah and I started to notice

48:46that the community could be used as the

48:49way to create the value instead of just

48:51it all coming from me and then so that's

48:55when I had this idea that you know it

48:58would be more about the court I mean the

49:00community and the people than the

49:02content and

49:04then I was listening to like Joe Rogan's

49:07podcast and I was fascinated in how that

49:09thing got so popular because it was like

49:11the biggest podcast in the

49:13world and he always had someone else on

49:16so he's effectively promoting everyone

49:19not himh but somehow that got him to be

49:23number one and he didn't he tried to

49:26encourage en everyone to start a podcast

49:29in fact most like of these people's

49:31podcasts came from there so he wasn't

49:33like he didn't have this mindset like no

49:36one else can make one I'm the guy like

49:39he bought everyone on and then got

49:42encourage them and that just helped him

49:44even more and I was like okay there

49:47there's something to this and it was the

49:50it was the same kind of phenomenon that

49:53I observed with the community course

49:56thing it's like if you can somehow get

49:58it to come from the people instead of

50:00from you and then that's actually more

50:03enjoyable for everyone it's more

50:04valuable and you will go further as well

50:09and it's easier to maintain because it's

50:11all about the people right and so that's

50:15why we're in here right now because as a

50:17Content strategy cuz I can't just make

50:19YouTube videos this isn't really on the

50:22topic of community but YouTubers if you

50:25talk to any of them they get burnt out

50:26mhm I'm sure Tik Tok is to

50:29anyone you just get burnt out cuz you're

50:33constantly under the gun to like produce

50:37right but if you bring in other people

50:39then that's kind of that burden's taken

50:41off of you yeah yeah you hit on

50:44something that like going back to that

50:47question of why do you I think

50:50people why have people not built these

50:53kinds of collaborative

50:55communities I'm not going to a soap box

50:57on this but you um you started to see it

51:02modeled and that's the best way that we

51:04learn as humans is to see things modeled

51:07and then we imitate them so if you

51:10haven't seen it modeled right if you

51:12haven't been a part of a community like

51:14that yourself it's really hard to want

51:18to create it or to even know how to

51:20create it so being a part of a community

51:22like that is essential but um just a a

51:25side thing again that I won't soap boox

51:27on I'm a huge believer in community in

51:30real life my friends and family joke

51:33that I would be the first to like sign

51:34up for communal living and like find a

51:36commune and like raise my family in a

51:38commune because I I actually believe

51:41that so many of the problems we see in

51:43the online space are actually rooted in

51:44the fact that we were created in

51:47community we were created to live in

51:49community yet now we like drive into our

51:51castles we shut our gates of our garage

51:53do and we are stoed and now even more

51:56than ever we raise our families on our

51:59own we don't have multigenerational

52:01family homes after um the pandemic we

52:06isolated ourselves even more so we have

52:10this like toxic culture of

52:13isolation and feeling like I can do and

52:17create and live this life on my own and

52:19I'm responsible for all of these things

52:20on my own but we were actually meant to

52:23live in a way more communal way and a

52:25way more collaborative way in our daily

52:28life and if we lived that out more we

52:32would understand the importance of

52:34community we would understand the value

52:36of people contributing why do you think

52:38it's like that cuz I've I've noticed

52:39that too community in the physical world

52:42is definitely degraded 100% why well one

52:47part is just generally you saw this is

52:51I'm totally nerding out with you right

52:52now on this but you saw a big shift in

52:55this as Transportation became more

52:57accessible so it used to be that

53:00families all stayed in the same place

53:02because it would be a lot to like pack

53:05up your horse and buggy and go you know

53:07or people couldn't afford vehicles or

53:10whatever it might be and if you moved

53:12away from your family it wasn't

53:14convenient for you to go back and visit

53:16them frequently but now you know my my

53:19in-laws they have a house in Minnesota

53:23they have a house in Arizona they're

53:24flying in to visit us like we're we're

53:26all over the country and yet we we can

53:28still make those visits but what happens

53:31is that we miss out on that closer

53:34connection of having people and then

53:36when you go and you move and living in

53:38Nashville it's a very nomadic place

53:41right I'm born and raised there they

53:43call us unicorns because most people are

53:45not from there but you go and you try to

53:50establish community and build

53:51relationships but

53:53where how like first off everybody's is

53:56busy especially if you have kids you've

53:58got your kids in like 50 different

54:00activities you don't have time to do

54:02anything right um people have trust

54:06issues so they don't want to go deeper

54:08into relationship because everything is

54:10so divisive right now it's like oh my

54:11gosh I don't know that I can talk about

54:13like Health choices for my family or can

54:15I talk about politics or you know

54:17everything is so divisive so it's it's

54:20really scary to go from surface to deep

54:22with people and then just the general

54:25environment and for Community we used to

54:28have gathering places in towns where

54:30like everybody would gather um at like

54:33the town hall or the community you know

54:36meet and three Diner or whatever it

54:38might be there were more gathering

54:41places uh even churches for example

54:44churches have always been a great place

54:46for people to build community but now

54:49it's like well your office well it's all

54:53virtual now so you move to a town you

54:57work

54:58virtually you don't go to church your

55:00kids are in school but the parents

55:02aren't allowed to participate in school

55:04like they were before so and everyone's

55:07busy everybody's busy so nobody's like

55:10chilling having C cookouts in their

55:12neighborhood and inviting strangers over

55:14it's just we try and live very

55:16differently and and have been able to

55:18kind of create some of that we've had to

55:20create family for oursel cuz our family

55:21is not close to us but yeah and then it

55:25and then it just it plays out in the

55:26online space I think because we we don't

55:29get to practice Community we don't get

55:31to see Community lived out and then

55:34we're supposed to turn around and

55:35genuinely create that

55:38online it's hard we just aren't seeing

55:41it

55:43modeled yeah yeah I think it has a lot

55:46to do with the internet for some reason

55:49cuz I you know the old if you think of

55:52like old little towns like there was the

55:55church and the town Hall and the main

55:58street right and everyone lived there

56:00everyone would probably work there and

56:03even the police officers they're

56:04policing their own neighborhood yeah so

56:08they care more about it cuz it could be

56:10their kid or whatever and everyone was

56:12just in this

56:14contained unit where they knew they were

56:16going to see everyone at church they

56:18would go to the local town hall meeting

56:21and everyone there lived there and that

56:23was where the taxes were spent and was

56:25this good little Atomic unit but

56:28then it all kind of changed with

56:30globalization and all this other stuff

56:32so then people went they moved they

56:35started working somewhere else and then

56:38you know the cost of living goes up

56:40dramatically so then a lot of the people

56:42that have to service the town like the

56:43police can't live there so they don't

56:46care as much and then you just get a lot

56:50of renters which you know is different

56:52again because now they don't care as

56:54much that established and then people

56:57aren't going to church so they're not

56:59seeing each other and they're not even

57:02working at the same

57:04places but what I think is happening

57:07though is you used to and you can tell

57:10me what you think of this I don't know

57:11if this is the right answer or

57:13whatever

57:15but everyone used to be in a community

57:18based on their local town right and you

57:21didn't have much of a choice in that but

57:24now people on the internet seeking

57:26Community Based on

57:28interest are you noticing this yeah so

57:32it's like they the new churches in a way

57:34like online communities that are

57:35interest based Y and that's to me I

57:39think the

57:41biggest gift and I think responsibility

57:45that we have and I definitely feel a

57:47weight of as somebody who's stewards

57:48Community

57:50creators is that we get to help people

57:53create Community where they cannot find

57:55it in their local area and I experienced

57:59that as an when I started my

58:00entrepreneurial Journey back in 2012 so

58:0310 years ago it was super lonely for me

58:06like I was a Christian Suburban mom who

58:11quit her well-paying corporate job to

58:16start my own business I mean like I had

58:19friends sent me down over margaritas and

58:21be like okay if you need money we can

58:23help you you're just working so hard it

58:25just was isn't common it took years

58:28before I found an entrepreneurial

58:30community and then an entrepreneurial

58:32community of women and then one of moms

58:36right and that's like the uncommon

58:39commonalities are ways to connect people

58:42so when you're in a town the commonality

58:44is that we all live in this town and we

58:46all experience this thing we go to this

58:48church we you know um I'll experience

58:52the tornado that went by 3 years ago or

58:54we have these shared experience es

58:56because we are around each other but

58:59what online communities have created for

59:01us is this ability to build communities

59:05around uncommon commonalities and that

59:07can be a shared mission and vision or it

59:10can be other things like I am a

59:14homeschooling mom who is also an

59:18entrepreneur before I would have not

59:22been able to find my people but we have

59:25this beautiful gift of creating spaces

59:29online where people can feel seen known

59:35understood and connected in a way that

59:37they never could

59:39before but I think my my challenge to us

59:42as Community creators is like let's

59:45create that place and let's do it in

59:47this really authentic and beautiful way

59:50that like you've talked about is is

59:52community-led but it doesn't have to

59:54stop here like this should be the the

59:57town

59:59hall but the community members don't do

1:00:02everything in the town hall right they

1:00:04they go off and they gather in other

1:00:06places they get together in person so

1:00:09when you're leading a community like

1:00:10that you're traveling like do meetups

1:00:13right help your members facilitate like

1:00:16find places where uh they can meet up

1:00:19with people in your community because

1:00:20they live

1:00:22nearby um get them on Zoom calls and

1:00:26don't just like talk at them like put

1:00:28them in breakout rooms and get them

1:00:30talking with each other so I just think

1:00:33of for example like when somebody builds

1:00:36a school Community they should be

1:00:38thinking of this as the Hub like this is

1:00:41the hub for everything that we do this

1:00:42is where our content lives this is where

1:00:44our community gathers this is where you

1:00:45can find those connections you can find

1:00:48people who have even more shared

1:00:50interest um or live near you or whatever

1:00:53it might be you can find those

1:00:54commonalities that you want to around

1:00:56our

1:00:57collaborations but this is the Hub that

1:00:59we all come back to but we like we kind

1:01:02of like web out you we do Zoom calls and

1:01:05you know we do live events or Gatherings

1:01:07or we do all this other stuff but it

1:01:09always comes back to the

1:01:13hub yeah I found this pretty interesting

1:01:18because when you know I'm from New

1:01:21Zealand

1:01:22and I had my my friends like from school

1:01:28right because we went to the same school

1:01:30we lived near each other we were the

1:01:32same

1:01:32age but we didn't like the same

1:01:35stuff so you know a lot of them they

1:01:38like rugby which is a sport in New

1:01:40Zealand I hate rugby but I just dealt

1:01:43with it I just watched it anyway yeah um

1:01:47but I never liked it at all

1:01:50and then you know with the internet I

1:01:53got really obsessed with the internet

1:01:54cuz I could find people like community

1:01:57that were interested in the Obscure

1:01:58things I was interested in like Counter

1:02:01Strike or building a computer or rock

1:02:05climbing or car racing things just

1:02:09things that you know not your everyday

1:02:10person would be into and I found those

1:02:14communities online that was in forums

1:02:17back then so way before social media and

1:02:19then we would actually meet up in real

1:02:22life and then you know when I had and

1:02:26kind of had this experience

1:02:28of always loving what I was doing like

1:02:31if it was whatever the thing I was doing

1:02:33I I wanted to love it and be very

1:02:35obsessed about it and then I went and

1:02:38got a corporate job and I was not

1:02:40obsessed about that and all the people I

1:02:42was hanging out with weren't

1:02:44either and that's when I discovered like

1:02:47entrepreneurship again online with an

1:02:49online

1:02:50community and they were approaching

1:02:53career with passion and like Obsession

1:02:56and I was like okay these are my

1:02:58people then I that's why I ended I

1:03:00actually did my first trip to America to

1:03:03hang out with them and that's what

1:03:05inspired me to end up moving here and so

1:03:08then I kind of found

1:03:11my my people that are based on interest

1:03:14you know what I mean so I guess a lot of

1:03:15people do you think a lot of people are

1:03:17going through this kind of Journey yeah

1:03:21and and I think they're all going to

1:03:23find different ways to it like mentioned

1:03:26climbing there's um there's a company in

1:03:28Nashville called climb Nashville and

1:03:30they have rock climbing locations right

1:03:33well it could just be a place where you

1:03:35go you pay your you know fee and you

1:03:37rock climb it's a whole Community those

1:03:41ones are easy because there's a place

1:03:43whenever there was a place it happened

1:03:45just so easy I guess the hard ones is

1:03:47when there's not a place right so this

1:03:50this is what we get to do right building

1:03:52a school Community is building that

1:03:55place

1:03:56M where those people get to meet and

1:03:58they get to

1:03:59gather because when you think about that

1:04:02place like climb Nashville they go and

1:04:04you're going to make connections there

1:04:06and by default people are going to meet

1:04:08other climbers and Etc but they actually

1:04:10are facilitating that they're

1:04:12facilitating going on climbs they're you

1:04:14know they've got like merch and stuff

1:04:16that like makes you be able to easily

1:04:18identify because they all got the bumper

1:04:20stickers on their cars or whatever it

1:04:21might

1:04:22be they naturally a Community started to

1:04:26form and then they just threw gasoline

1:04:28on the fire right they facilitated that

1:04:31even more and I think that's that's part

1:04:33of the hard part about building an

1:04:36online community for the first time is

1:04:38you don't want to have to wait for that

1:04:42like momentum to build you want it to be

1:04:45this thriving Community

1:04:49overnight and it it is it is like a

1:04:52living and breathing organism and it

1:04:54takes time for it to grow

1:04:56grow and what's really important is that

1:04:59you start with the people that are

1:05:02really in alignment with what you're

1:05:04trying to build and you could probably

1:05:06speak to this because I mean in the

1:05:08transition from consulting.com to school

1:05:11you probably had to think through this

1:05:13but if you if you don't start with

1:05:17people that are closely aligned with the

1:05:20mission and vision of what you're trying

1:05:22to do it's going to get skewed really

1:05:25fast because as things multiply it's

1:05:27like the game of telephone right by the

1:05:28time it grows to the 10th power or

1:05:31whatever it's turned into something

1:05:33completely different because your

1:05:35original people were all kind of

1:05:36pointing in different directions so if

1:05:38that close-knit Community those Founders

1:05:41those founding members are really

1:05:43aligned with the culture you want to

1:05:44create and the cause and you involve

1:05:47them and it's really collaborative and

1:05:49they know they're building that with you

1:05:50then it can multiply so much faster and

1:05:53it can multiply in alignment with with

1:05:56what you're looking to build but so many

1:05:58people they don't want

1:06:00to wait through those early days or

1:06:05years even of having a smaller Community

1:06:07that's trying to build momentum or they

1:06:09want to like lay out a game plan today

1:06:12of what their Community is going to look

1:06:13like 5 years from

1:06:15now but a community that is

1:06:19community-led is not something that you

1:06:21can game plan out right you can't say

1:06:26five years from now this is what this

1:06:27community is going to look like and be

1:06:28about just like you couldn't have gone

1:06:30and put a full feature set like 10 years

1:06:32from now this is all the features that

1:06:34school.com is going to

1:06:35have because you don't know yet the

1:06:38needs of your community you don't know

1:06:41what's going to happen what your

1:06:42community is going to go

1:06:44through and that that's the part that

1:06:47that is uncomfortable for people when

1:06:49they're starting online communities but

1:06:51but it's a it's an amazing opportunity

1:06:53and everybody has it everybody has a

1:06:55chance without having to go and buy a

1:06:58building and create a business around it

1:07:00to start a community you can go online

1:07:03create a forum find a couple of people

1:07:06that

1:07:08are either in alignment with mission and

1:07:10vision um on a similar Journey because

1:07:13they have a similar goal or they have an

1:07:15uncommon commonality like rugby hating

1:07:18new zealanders or whatever right like

1:07:20you can you can find those people and

1:07:23create that community and just

1:07:25facilitate that and see what happens and

1:07:28next thing you know you've created this

1:07:30like safe space on the internet for

1:07:33sometimes for people that have never

1:07:35experienced that kind of connection

1:07:40before yeah there's lots of stuff I want

1:07:42to get

1:07:43into definitely how to start because a

1:07:46lot of people are probably in that

1:07:49category yeah but I'm just thinking on

1:07:52the topic of existing communities

1:07:55we went into like safety and how to

1:07:57restore

1:08:00that well what

1:08:03other before we kind of leave existing

1:08:05communities and how to make them better

1:08:07so they've got to have like a they've

1:08:09got to have a clear goal and everyone's

1:08:12got to be in alignment there's got to be

1:08:13shared

1:08:16values how do you actually communicate

1:08:19those and declare them to everyone like

1:08:23tactically yeah um so going back to

1:08:28those realignment moments when some

1:08:31sometimes

1:08:33I sometimes I think we all believe we

1:08:36have to have our culture figured out

1:08:39before we start the community and

1:08:40chances are you don't you may have some

1:08:42general things but when somebody steps

1:08:46outside of your culture even if you

1:08:48don't have it clearly defined and you

1:08:51have that feeling that like there's

1:08:53something about this that's not right I

1:08:55don't like this I don't want this

1:08:58happening that's when you're like okay

1:09:00realignment moment we're bringing people

1:09:02back in and now we've established a new

1:09:05guideline within our community and I

1:09:06really encourage people to have beliefs

1:09:09behaviors and boundaries what do people

1:09:11like us believe what do people like us

1:09:14do and what do we not do or not allow

1:09:17right so beliefs behaviors and

1:09:18boundaries and it's probably a short

1:09:20list to start but you've got a few of

1:09:22them because we as humans we just

1:09:24naturally have those things in our life

1:09:27but over time as you start to interact

1:09:29with your community you'll start to

1:09:31notice the things that just don't feel

1:09:33right or feel out of alignment and that

1:09:35list will continue to grow as you move

1:09:38your community back in alignment but

1:09:40really basically like having Community

1:09:42guidelines that people agree to when

1:09:44they join your community and if you ever

1:09:46do have to realign people it's really

1:09:48nice to be able to reference those

1:09:50guidelines and say hey just referring

1:09:53you back to this um you know this just

1:09:55isn't something that we do and then the

1:09:57beautiful part about having those

1:09:59established guidelines is you know

1:10:01structured as they

1:10:03seem is it almost is like a third party

1:10:07so if you're a business owner who

1:10:09doesn't like correcting people in your

1:10:11community all you have to do is say hey

1:10:15um I just wanted to reference the

1:10:17guidelines guideline number three and

1:10:20this is being guidelines like beliefs

1:10:22behaviors okay so I'm just trying to get

1:10:25real Tactical for some people listen

1:10:28even me I'm like what am I going to do

1:10:29when I leave this room right like

1:10:31Community just write down three things

1:10:33well yeah write down beliefs beh your

1:10:35beliefs behaviors and boundaries and

1:10:37create rules around those like we it

1:10:40would be B if like I'm just thinking

1:10:41from school because we can make school

1:10:43do anything what if it just had these

1:10:45that you could answer exactly yeah what

1:10:48are what are our beliefs you know what

1:10:51are the kinds of behavior we want to see

1:10:54what are the boundaries that we have

1:10:55have right and what here's what you're

1:10:57saying that's better than just saying

1:10:58rules cuz I swear no one looks at rules

1:11:01rules we have a rules feature and it's

1:11:03kind of sucks to be honest what what

1:11:05you're saying is like this is this is

1:11:09yeah this is who we are and what we

1:11:11stand for why we're

1:11:13here this is how we act when we're

1:11:17together and this is what we're not okay

1:11:20with like this is where we draw the line

1:11:22and if we're clear on those things right

1:11:26then we've created an environment that

1:11:29allows us to all know where everybody

1:11:31stands we've created structure we've

1:11:34created safety if people fall outside of

1:11:37that that's when trust gets broken right

1:11:38because we have that Integrity piece

1:11:41um yeah and and we put everybody on the

1:11:44same page so then what happens is the

1:11:46more you're able to communicate those

1:11:48things the more your community will I

1:11:50don't want to say self- police but your

1:11:53community members will be like hey man

1:11:55that's not

1:11:56cool you you'll find yourself less and

1:11:58less having

1:12:01to align people around those guidelines

1:12:04or rules if you will when you've made

1:12:06them abundantly clear because

1:12:08everybody's bought into them from the

1:12:10beginning you're going to have natural

1:12:11leaders that come up in your community

1:12:13especially the more they contribute

1:12:15right so then they are going to start

1:12:19correcting Community leaders and you've

1:12:21modeled for them hopefully what that

1:12:23looks like it's not a like sh Shing of

1:12:25anybody it's just like a hey just wanted

1:12:28to remind you of this you know so if you

1:12:30wouldn't mind editing or removing your

1:12:32post that'd be awesome would you share

1:12:35any goal like sheared goal yeah so that

1:12:38goes um so that beliefs behaviors and

1:12:42boundaries is under culture and the

1:12:44first piece is cause um and cause cause

1:12:48is three things it's purpose path and

1:12:50progress but basically cause is having a

1:12:53really clear purpose and ultimately we

1:12:55want to give them the path to

1:12:57accomplishing that purpose and help them

1:12:59make progress now that all especially is

1:13:02true inside of our paid communities we

1:13:04need people to be getting results right

1:13:06there's three things that help people

1:13:08retain relationships results and

1:13:11recognition like those are the three

1:13:13keys to retention right there it's it's

1:13:15not as complicated as everybody thinks

1:13:18it is it's relationships results and

1:13:21recognition and if we can find ways to

1:13:24do and Achieve those three things for

1:13:27our community they're never going to

1:13:29leave which is why I love like at in

1:13:32school you guys have that gamification

1:13:35piece so that people are getting like

1:13:36points for contributing in the community

1:13:39um that's awesome because that right

1:13:42there is built in recognition for them

1:13:45so we've got that we've got the

1:13:46relationship piece and now it's a matter

1:13:48of the results piece and part of helping

1:13:50people get results is creating a culture

1:13:52and environment in which they feel safe

1:13:55to ask questions when they're stuck

1:13:58right but yeah it that that whole piece

1:14:02of like why are we here you know what do

1:14:05we believe to be true about us or our

1:14:07industry or whatever it might be it's

1:14:09kind of different depending on the

1:14:11business how do we act in this space and

1:14:14then what are what are our boundaries

1:14:17like what are we not okay

1:14:19with so I think retention which is

1:14:22relationships results recognition

1:14:25wouldn't really share that to the cuz

1:14:27that's more of a retention strategy for

1:14:29the operator or the owner right for the

1:14:31business owner these two sound culture

1:14:34and cause I mean they go in the reverse

1:14:36order cause culture these sound like

1:14:38things you would want to make super

1:14:40clear yeah so wouldn't that be better

1:14:43than having like rules yeah cuz that's

1:14:47really what everyone should Define if if

1:14:49it's an existing Community or it's new

1:14:53you should Define these three things

1:14:55yeah and the cool part is for you and

1:14:58anybody else who already has an

1:14:59established Community is you may have an

1:15:03idea of what those things are but when

1:15:05you ask your community they may have

1:15:09perceived

1:15:10boundaries and perceived be behaviors

1:15:13that you're not aware of because it's so

1:15:15obvious to you you know we were talking

1:15:18about this before we turned on the mics

1:15:20about like there's things that that you

1:15:23do there's things we do that are so

1:15:26obvious to us that we don't even realize

1:15:29that we're doing them or thinking them

1:15:32but our community recognizes those in us

1:15:35or in that culture so you have the

1:15:38ability to actually go to your community

1:15:40and say hey here's what I think our

1:15:43beliefs are here's what I think our

1:15:45behaviors are and here's what I think

1:15:47our boundaries are what would you add

1:15:49what would you

1:15:51change

1:15:52right I think there's a lot to these

1:15:55basic things

1:15:57because some people have honestly come

1:15:59to me and they're like I have a

1:16:00community but no one's using it yeah and

1:16:03I'm like

1:16:05well well I'll give you a specific

1:16:07example I just won't say the name of the

1:16:09guy but it's a tax

1:16:11community and there's like a few hundred

1:16:13people in there no one's doing anything

1:16:16mhm and he's like how do I get people to

1:16:19and I'm like what is this community for

1:16:21and he no he doesn't know right so then

1:16:24I'm like have a community how do people

1:16:27know what to do have you seen a lot of

1:16:29these oh yeah a lot a lot of people

1:16:31create communities because they feel

1:16:33like they should um but Community

1:16:37platform and I will just say this I I

1:16:40always like to distinguish between a

1:16:42community and a community platform

1:16:44because in this online space we kind of

1:16:47see them as Anonymous and they're not

1:16:50the community platform is just a

1:16:51facilitation tool to establish a

1:16:54community that should have legs that

1:16:56extend beyond the community platform

1:16:58itself right so we have to get really

1:17:02clear about what is the purpose of the

1:17:05community right and how does the

1:17:07community platform support that so we

1:17:10have a community to help tax people

1:17:13collaborate so that they can um uh have

1:17:17a shared knowledge base around new tax

1:17:20codes so that they can better serve

1:17:22their clients and so that they can learn

1:17:25Better Tax Management systems and system

1:17:28and idea share whatever it might be so

1:17:30that's why you have the community now we

1:17:32know the purpose of the community and

1:17:34how it serves the people in our program

1:17:37what tools and platforms do we need to

1:17:41facilitate that kind of purpose right

1:17:44okay we want to have a a shared space

1:17:47for people to talk and ask questions

1:17:50okay so we're going to have a school

1:17:52Community platform that's going to be

1:17:53that shared space Well we'd also like

1:17:55for them to be able to connect um and

1:17:59like decompress together or whatever it

1:18:01might be okay so maybe we do Zoom calls

1:18:03or whatever maybe we do in-person

1:18:06stuff you have all of these different

1:18:08tools that you can use to facilitate

1:18:10that bigger Community but people just

1:18:12don't get really clear on what it is and

1:18:15those that do often don't tell people so

1:18:18really deciding strategically the

1:18:20purpose of that Community platform how

1:18:22you're going to use it and then

1:18:24communicating that purpose but actually

1:18:27driving people to it attention is the

1:18:30hardest thing for us to get so if we are

1:18:33not telling people to come back to that

1:18:35platform and giving them a clear reason

1:18:37to do it they're not going to do it

1:18:39right we only repeat things that give us

1:18:41results that we like so if we come to a

1:18:43community platform and we post and we

1:18:45never get a response we never feel

1:18:47connected we never get engaged we're

1:18:48going to stop showing up because we're

1:18:50not getting the result that we want but

1:18:52if every time we show up in a community

1:18:54platform there's something new there's

1:18:56some other bit of wisdom that we missed

1:18:57or there's some connection that we're

1:18:59making we're going to keep showing up

1:19:00over and over again because we're being

1:19:03rewarded for doing so so we've got to

1:19:05think about the trigger and the reward

1:19:08which the basics of habit building

1:19:10what's the trigger to get them into the

1:19:12community and we as the business owner

1:19:14need to create that and then what's the

1:19:16reward once they get there and if we can

1:19:18just continually Loop people through

1:19:20that trigger reward trigger reward then

1:19:24we're building the habit of coming to

1:19:26the community but we just get this

1:19:28philosophy of like if we build it they

1:19:30will come and just doesn't work that

1:19:33[Music]

1:19:34way yeah it sounds like this is really

1:19:38important to Define even for existing

1:19:42communities even if they're good yeah um

1:19:45and for a community before it starts

1:19:49because yeah I've also noticed that a

1:19:51lot of people just get a lot of random

1:19:53different people in

1:19:55and then from that point it's quite hard

1:19:57to fix that one right

1:19:59because no one knows why they're there

1:20:02so you get all of these random people in

1:20:05there have you seen this one happen oh

1:20:08I've I've where I see this happen that

1:20:11one

1:20:12um there it you're basically starting

1:20:16over on the same platform right so you

1:20:18can you can revive any Community you

1:20:20just have to basically act like you're

1:20:22starting from scratch but where I see

1:20:23that happen the most is when people have

1:20:26established communities and then

1:20:27community members are like well let's go

1:20:29start our own like sub community and

1:20:31they like start a random sub Community

1:20:33but there's no real like vision for that

1:20:37Community or purpose and business owners

1:20:39would often be afraid because oh gosh

1:20:41there's this subgroup that's kind of

1:20:42started I'm like I mean is that person

1:20:46committing every day to Growing that

1:20:48community that subgroup off of your

1:20:50community no they're not so it might go

1:20:53for a couple months but then it will

1:20:54ultimately Fizzles out because there's

1:20:56no clear leadership there's no clear

1:20:58purpose for the community there's no

1:21:00like constant driving people and

1:21:02communicating about the community yeah

1:21:04that's why I I mean just going back to

1:21:07those four pillars of my framework if

1:21:10you look at cause culture communication

1:21:11and connection those four things are

1:21:14essential to keep a community thriving

1:21:18um you can have a community that is

1:21:20missing one of those but It ultimately

1:21:23is is going to fizzle out in the end

1:21:26because what the other one you said you

1:21:27said cause culture retention and what's

1:21:30cause culture communication and

1:21:33connection are the four pillars that you

1:21:36need got it so I think I'm missing like

1:21:40communication what's that one

1:21:41communication is um three different

1:21:44types of communication so um the first

1:21:48one is the most obvious one that we all

1:21:50do which is outgoing communication like

1:21:52me to you right

1:21:55um the second one is incoming which is

1:21:58how am I listening to my community what

1:22:01is their channel of communication with

1:22:03me and then the third is internal which

1:22:08is the conversations that are happening

1:22:10among my community members and how am I

1:22:12facilitating those and I have people

1:22:15look at and audit all of those different

1:22:17platforms because you know people have

1:22:19like their their support platforms their

1:22:22direct messages their Community

1:22:23platforms they have all of these

1:22:25different ways that people can

1:22:27communicate with them they have maybe

1:22:29email their social channels their

1:22:31Community platform that they're

1:22:33communicating to but they don't actually

1:22:37know what's going on in all of those

1:22:39different channels and it's really

1:22:41important to me that the experience that

1:22:44people have with the business or the

1:22:45brand is consistent across any platform

1:22:48where they interact with us so we've got

1:22:50to have a handle on all of those

1:22:53different ways where communicating with

1:22:55them they're communicating with us and

1:22:58making sure that we have that open

1:22:59Channel like we talked about earlier

1:23:01it's so important to be able to get

1:23:02feedback and hear from our community and

1:23:05then that third one of how are we

1:23:07actually facilitating conversation and

1:23:09engagement among our members and that's

1:23:12where it goes from being like you said

1:23:13just like a public support platform to

1:23:17an actual

1:23:20community so I've got this is good so

1:23:22I've got cause

1:23:25culture communication and connection is

1:23:28the last one and there's three parts to

1:23:30that three parts to that yeah what are

1:23:32they safety which we've already talked

1:23:33about yeah space and this is what we

1:23:37were just talking about around like not

1:23:39answering immediately kind well no um no

1:23:42it's um the different spaces we're going

1:23:44to create to facilitate connection like

1:23:47so I would sell tell somebody okay your

1:23:50space your primary space is your school

1:23:53Community po platform that's your

1:23:55primary space but you may also have a

1:23:57space or a container that is a live

1:23:59event you may also have a space that's

1:24:01like coaching calls on Zoom or whatever

1:24:04it might be so it's like the different

1:24:05spaces and how do we optimize those for

1:24:07connection and then the third one is

1:24:09scale and this one's really important

1:24:11because when you have a smaller

1:24:15Community you have a huge Advantage

1:24:19because you can build relationships and

1:24:21get to know those people really well and

1:24:23you can have Sation with all of them and

1:24:25you can build connections super easy but

1:24:28how do you scale that as your community

1:24:32grows right that's one of the hardest

1:24:35things that happens when you know I I

1:24:37have clients that have 14,000 members

1:24:40and a paid community that started years

1:24:43ago with her just having like a Meetup

1:24:45Group how does she keep people feeling

1:24:49connected to her and not feeling like a

1:24:51number inside of that community of

1:24:5314,000

1:24:54and we've done a lot of work and she's

1:24:56done a lot of work to create that but

1:25:00the biggest challenge that we run into

1:25:02in

1:25:02business is that as we scale we lean

1:25:05more and more on Automation and although

1:25:07automation is really wonderful

1:25:09automation can lead to alienation of our

1:25:12community so I really encourage people

1:25:14in scale automate to create space for

1:25:19your people automate things so that you

1:25:22can do more High touch or seemingly High

1:25:26touch activities because you just have

1:25:28to be so cautious of that right like we

1:25:30just automate oursel into a place of

1:25:31alienation is kind of what we talked

1:25:33about where people lose trust in

1:25:36communities and Community leaders

1:25:37because they get in this space of like I

1:25:39got to scale I got to systematize I got

1:25:41to automate and they like lose the human

1:25:43connection they alienate their people so

1:25:46how do you scale that

1:25:51Community while creating automations but

1:25:55realizing the purpose of automation is

1:25:57so that you can do the the unscalable

1:26:01activities

1:26:03right got it this makes a lot of

1:26:07scenes yeah and I mean that is my

1:26:10framework that I use to teach inside of

1:26:13my programs and everything but like that

1:26:16that just comes from researching

1:26:17communities and humans like I've read

1:26:20books about how small groups form at

1:26:22churches and

1:26:24uh books about like you know uh gangs

1:26:28and Cults I I'm fascinated I listen to

1:26:30to podcasts about cults to learn about

1:26:33how they form I mean when you just when

1:26:36you look at um the good and the bad of

1:26:39community building and movements you see

1:26:42common themes in all of them and so how

1:26:44do we take that learn from not just you

1:26:48know the last 20 years of what has been

1:26:51well gosh not even the last 15 years of

1:26:54what has been building communities

1:26:56online how do we take centuries of

1:26:59information around how communities have

1:27:01been built over hundreds or thousands of

1:27:04years and apply that to how we're

1:27:07building communities online and that's

1:27:08what that framework is really attempting

1:27:10to

1:27:12do I think people are really bad at this

1:27:17yeah yeah I think it's must be partly to

1:27:21do with the internet starting off as

1:27:24just like a Content creation platform

1:27:27right even like if you're on YouTube you

1:27:30basically just isolate and make videos

1:27:33yeah and that's how you get successful

1:27:34same with blogging you actually shut it

1:27:37out to like focus and then you just

1:27:40produce and then you grow an

1:27:44audience and that's how that model works

1:27:47but the community one is totally

1:27:49different and people I think is trying

1:27:51to apply the same thing to it yeah well

1:27:55and how do you shift if you have been

1:27:57that content creator right that's built

1:27:59an audience how do you shift that

1:28:01audience from an audience to a community

1:28:03like people talk a lot about Mr Beast

1:28:06right he's been really big really big

1:28:09YouTuber maybe the biggest out there but

1:28:13what he has done well is he's shifted

1:28:15from like audience to community mindset

1:28:19Community

1:28:21mentality yeah I think he's always had a

1:28:23bit of a Community mentality like he

1:28:25makes videos with other people he

1:28:27involves his audience in his videos he

1:28:30collaborates a lot with other

1:28:33creators and he has like a team and he

1:28:38does community work you know what I mean

1:28:40like like you were saying with Joe Rogan

1:28:42a lot the best creators have figured out

1:28:44how to use community in collaboration I

1:28:47found yeah and Mr Beast I think he even

1:28:49has like a a restaurant now or something

1:28:51so he he is even now has physical spaces

1:28:55where people in his community are able

1:28:58to

1:28:59gather yeah I've noticed that happen

1:29:01more and

1:29:03more have you heard of this company is

1:29:06it Like Chief yeah okay crazy

1:29:10story um I trained a community manager

1:29:14for another program and the founders are

1:29:17are going their separate ways that

1:29:19Community manager just became the

1:29:22community manager for Chief and I was on

1:29:25the airplane on the way here talking to

1:29:28somebody who's sitting next to me she

1:29:30happens to be on the board for a

1:29:32subscription business an app business in

1:29:35the athletic space and she said the same

1:29:38thing to me she's like have you ever

1:29:40heard of the company called Chief so

1:29:43it's fascinating that has been in my

1:29:44world that company has been in my world

1:29:46for the last two weeks but yeah they

1:29:48they bring together women who are in

1:29:51seite positions and create which pay

1:29:55attention to what they're doing because

1:29:57one of my predictions for

1:29:592023 is that people are going to want

1:30:03deeper Connection in communities they're

1:30:05starting to people are starting to join

1:30:07online communities and then get burnt

1:30:09out just like creators of those

1:30:11communities are getting burnt out people

1:30:13are wanting to find their people within

1:30:15your people they're wanting to find

1:30:17their smaller group and that's what

1:30:18Chief has done really well is they

1:30:20actually put you in small cohorts and

1:30:22there's physical space yeah yeah cuz

1:30:25I've joined some things similar to that

1:30:28they don't have physical space

1:30:30but I mean the two things that have

1:30:32stood out to me if I'm looking at

1:30:33joining a community at the moment

1:30:36is strictness of Entry criteria because

1:30:41I want to hang out with other people

1:30:43where I don't feel like I'm

1:30:45like um giving more than receiving kind

1:30:49of thing you know what I mean I want to

1:30:51learn something and I want to be with

1:30:53people that

1:30:55like we where it's symbiotic basically

1:30:59um and where I can learn something and

1:31:01then the other one is I don't want to do

1:31:04anything online cuz I just I do so much

1:31:08stuff online yeah so I'm like are there

1:31:10physical meetups and do people here in

1:31:14this group like like to meet up so I've

1:31:17joined a few of those recently so I

1:31:20think and chief does exactly the same

1:31:23thing they've got strict entry criteria

1:31:25like you have to be interviewed there's

1:31:27certain bar you've got to meet and then

1:31:29they've got physical meeting space which

1:31:31kind of says the members want to meet up

1:31:33yeah and I think this is um it's

1:31:36fascinating because I'm starting a pure

1:31:38Mastermind this coming year and the

1:31:41criteria for me was it starts with an

1:31:44inperson event you have like iners is

1:31:47required what we do online in between is

1:31:51just to continue the conversations from

1:31:54the in-person

1:31:55but the inperson piece is required

1:31:58whereas I think a lot of people in the

1:31:59online space everything has been online

1:32:03and then the in-person is an

1:32:05add-on but what you're seeing like what

1:32:08you're talking about and uh what we're

1:32:11seeing with Chief and there's other

1:32:13companies that are doing it as well

1:32:15we're actually going back to starting

1:32:17with in-person community and then

1:32:19leveraging the online space to support

1:32:23the activities and conversations that

1:32:25are happening in person and it's not

1:32:28uncommon culture es and flows like this

1:32:31all the time we kind of are constantly

1:32:33on a pendulum of being out of balance

1:32:35right everything is online nothing is in

1:32:37person then people are like hey that was

1:32:39probably a bad idea we like human

1:32:41connection and then you know people kind

1:32:43of get burnt out they start leaving

1:32:45social media and I I'm kind of curious

1:32:47if we'll ever really find this beautiful

1:32:50balance where people will have healthy

1:32:52boundaries around their online community

1:32:55space um and still be in person I talk a

1:32:59lot on my podcast about I want people to

1:33:03find inperson communities I want them to

1:33:05get involved in their local communities

1:33:07even if it they can't find fellow

1:33:09entrepreneurs you can find people with

1:33:11common interest because it's mental

1:33:13health is so important and as

1:33:15entrepreneurs I think we isolate

1:33:16ourselves so

1:33:18often we don't build local inperson

1:33:21communities and there's only so much um

1:33:24there's only so much connection that can

1:33:26happen online you need you like need

1:33:29human flesh Toof flesh interaction and

1:33:33when we don't have that I think it

1:33:34impacts our me meal I know it impacts

1:33:36our mental health so if we can find that

1:33:39balance of having some smaller in-person

1:33:42communities that we go deep with that

1:33:44are our Inner Circle that have our most

1:33:47trust um I think that's incredibly

1:33:51valuable and then we also have online

1:33:55communities where we can um serve they

1:33:58serve different purposes right we we get

1:34:01value we build connections there and

1:34:03some of those connections will take into

1:34:05that more intimate inperson community

1:34:08and and some of them we won't but I've

1:34:10built um some of my best relationships

1:34:12my best business friend Laura I was

1:34:15speaking on stage in an event gosh must

1:34:17have been four years ago cuz my

1:34:19four-year-old was a baby and she went up

1:34:21to my husband afterwards and like I

1:34:22think I need to be friends with you your

1:34:24wife and I love that kind of person that

1:34:27just boldly says that a few weeks later

1:34:28I was like hey if we're doing this we

1:34:30Voxer for a couple weeks and I was like

1:34:31hey I'm flying my family up so me and my

1:34:34family flew up stayed with this

1:34:36practical stranger and her family and

1:34:38we've been super close ever since we try

1:34:41and get together at least once a year if

1:34:42not a couple times a year and we we talk

1:34:46on Voxer pretty much every single

1:34:48day and that to me is like if we can use

1:34:51the online space to find those people

1:34:54that we want to go deeper with but

1:34:56remember that that we can still have

1:34:58those more intimate

1:35:00communities but those online communities

1:35:02right they are a big part of helping us

1:35:05find those people and they also serve

1:35:07other purposes for us as well so I think

1:35:09there's a balance between the two and

1:35:12we've kind of been we we skewed

1:35:15especially during the pandemic really

1:35:17heavy in the online space and I think

1:35:18we're all seeing the world suffer

1:35:20because of

1:35:22it yeah this

1:35:24like there's

1:35:26um kind of like different clusters I've

1:35:31noticed cuz I just think of when I went

1:35:32to University or

1:35:35college it's pretty big but you're in a

1:35:38year right and then you're in a major

1:35:43and a business school or whatever but

1:35:46then there's just the people that happen

1:35:49to be in the same classes as you and

1:35:51then there's the people that sit next to

1:35:53you for for whatever

1:35:54reason and those become like your

1:35:56friends which is usually like five mhm

1:35:59but then your friends are like kind of

1:36:01part of this group that go to parties

1:36:03together and things like that and you're

1:36:05part of this wider thing that sometimes

1:36:07you see it different parties do you know

1:36:09what I mean and that's how it all kind

1:36:11of comes together my husband and I have

1:36:13joked about um you know as education and

1:36:18college education everything after high

1:36:20school goes more online we think a lot

1:36:23of the univers on like campus

1:36:25universities that we see well they'll

1:36:27start to shut down they just won't be

1:36:29anymore because people realize that you

1:36:31can get uh speed of learning online

1:36:34right so We've joked and said we're

1:36:36going to start buying dorms and turning

1:36:37them into entrepreneurial like communal

1:36:40living communities where you get a bunch

1:36:42of entrepreneurs living together like

1:36:45working together in the shared space

1:36:48because there's nothing like that

1:36:50environment you get in college where

1:36:53you're

1:36:54spending all of that time together in sh

1:36:57like just pure shared space like you

1:36:59were talking about the more you see

1:37:01somebody the more likely you are to

1:37:03build connection with them and college

1:37:05is the perfect environment for that and

1:37:08it builds shared experience and shared

1:37:10experience is a great way to create

1:37:12connection as well so um so imagine if

1:37:16you like people who now are not going to

1:37:20college but they could still really

1:37:22benefit from that kind kind of community

1:37:24experience that you get in college how

1:37:26do you create like a 4-year Community

1:37:29experience for entrepreneurs coming out

1:37:31of high school that don't want to take

1:37:33the college path but also do not want to

1:37:37just like go and buy a house and start a

1:37:39family how do you create that kind of

1:37:42space for those people for them to get

1:37:45the social and emotional learning that

1:37:47happens in those four years of living in

1:37:50close proximity with other people um

1:37:53without actually having to go to college

1:37:56so yeah because there's something that

1:37:58happens just by being in proximity but

1:38:00it's that depth of community that you

1:38:02get when it's just like you said you

1:38:06you're at the same College you're in the

1:38:08same major you're in the same class and

1:38:11then you sit next to each other how do

1:38:13we create a similar experience for

1:38:16people inside of our online

1:38:20communities yeah that's what I noticed

1:38:21College definitely Beats

1:38:24the internet in terms of like friendship

1:38:27and Community 100% and fun yeah cuz

1:38:31college is mostly people it's fun more

1:38:34than it is like

1:38:35educational but it the content isn't

1:38:38that good I think that's where the

1:38:39internet comes in right yeah yeah

1:38:42there's um this book called The oh I

1:38:45want to call it the one world

1:38:47Schoolhouse I think it's the one room

1:38:49one world Schoolhouse I Can't Remember

1:38:50by Salon KH he's the founder of KH

1:38:52Academy which is a free online learning

1:38:54system my husband is a former teacher

1:38:58and he really loved this concept that he

1:39:00teaches in this book where he basically

1:39:02says we have it backwards we bring

1:39:04children together to hear a lecture from

1:39:08somebody where they do not talk and then

1:39:10we send them

1:39:12home to do the work and figure it out

1:39:16right and then the parents end up

1:39:17carrying the burden of being the partner

1:39:19that helps them figure that out what if

1:39:22they watched a lecture

1:39:23at home and then they came into the

1:39:26space and that's where collaboration

1:39:28happened that's where they worked it out

1:39:30together and so he was trying to reverse

1:39:32this idea of the classroom and basically

1:39:34say like hey let's have online lectures

1:39:37and he does through KH Academy and then

1:39:39let's leverage the time when we're in

1:39:42community to actually collaborate and I

1:39:44like applying that to the online space

1:39:47as well because I think we all fall Vis

1:39:49to this because we were all raised in

1:39:50the same school system essentially when

1:39:53we have zoom calls we tell people to

1:39:55come and show up and then we talk at

1:39:57them for 45 minutes right if we are

1:40:00bringing people together in a room it

1:40:03needs to be for them to take advantage

1:40:06of the collaborative minds of all of the

1:40:08people in the room or you should have

1:40:09just told them to watch a video so how

1:40:11do we even take that concept and bring

1:40:13it online where if I'm going to gather

1:40:16people at a certain time a certain place

1:40:19online I'm going to leverage all of the

1:40:23Minds in the room or all of the

1:40:25opportunities for connection you know um

1:40:28so like there's so much that we can

1:40:30learn for spaces outside of of the

1:40:32online world yeah that's what I started

1:40:35to do after a long period of time the

1:40:38problem I think with it is that it's

1:40:40scary because you don't know what's

1:40:42going to happen yeah so I started doing

1:40:44that with my events my Mastermind

1:40:47events I just got everyone to come to

1:40:49the room like I knew we were all doing

1:40:51the same thing we all have info

1:40:53businesses and we're all pretty

1:40:55successful and I knew we'd be in the

1:40:57same room for 3 days and I'm sure we've

1:40:59got plenty of problems right

1:41:02so I was just had confidence that we

1:41:04could figure it out and there was no

1:41:07agenda and then it just got figured out

1:41:10and the content that came out of that

1:41:11was like people love it more than if I

1:41:13just came up with a keynote Series yeah

1:41:17um and that's kind of what you're

1:41:20talking about right you just bring the

1:41:21people together you've got to have like

1:41:24alignment which is kind of your first

1:41:26two things you talk about but then

1:41:28you've just got to let it kind of happen

1:41:31instead of trying to premeditate it all

1:41:33and then create content and then just

1:41:35lecture everyone yeah I think a lot of

1:41:38that is we have overly structured The

1:41:43Mastermind environment and that was part

1:41:45of and I was talking um a couple of GS

1:41:48about this peer Mastermind that I'm

1:41:50starting we we talked about what the

1:41:51inperson Gatherings would look like like

1:41:53and I was like the complete opposite of

1:41:55what you're used to we're going to

1:41:57structure in white space we're going to

1:41:59structure in time for you to be filled

1:42:01um emotionally spiritually all of these

1:42:04things that as somebody running a a

1:42:07business you don't do like most of us

1:42:10don't have white space we don't have

1:42:13time where we take care of ourselves so

1:42:14we're going to structure that in and

1:42:16then we're just going to leave a lot of

1:42:18white space for conversation because

1:42:21here's what I know if I get a bunch of

1:42:23smart people in a room together who are

1:42:25all on a similar journey of creating a

1:42:27business and we all have a similar heart

1:42:30meaning we all are there to serve first

1:42:33instead of receive every single person

1:42:36is going to leave with feeling like they

1:42:39have been served and with a problem

1:42:41solved right I don't have to facilitate

1:42:43that I don't have to say okay you get 15

1:42:46minutes you get 15 minutes you get 15

1:42:49minutes and I know that's weird whenever

1:42:51I see those structures I'm like what's

1:42:53going on I've seen it work for for

1:42:56certain situations where you have

1:42:57limited time and you've got a lot of

1:42:59people and you need to make sure you

1:43:00know everybody gets a voice but but

1:43:04where the where the best stuff happens

1:43:06and where that intimacy comes is when we

1:43:08just leave space for things to happen so

1:43:12we're all staying in an Airbnb together

1:43:13every time because I think and I know

1:43:16from being part of masterminds

1:43:18myself that the best conversations

1:43:21happen when the structured part ends and

1:43:24dinner starts right when we sit together

1:43:26at dinner or we you know go up to the

1:43:29patio or the bar afterwards or a small

1:43:31group of us go into somebody's hotel

1:43:33room and start chatting till 1:00 in the

1:43:35morning like that's where my journal is

1:43:37full that's where I'm like oh I finally

1:43:40got Clarity because so often when we do

1:43:44these hot

1:43:45seats that most masterminds will do like

1:43:47these Hot Seat kind of thing I don't

1:43:49even really know the question I'm asking

1:43:51I think I know but what I need is a back

1:43:54and forth conversation with people who

1:43:56get me who can get to the real question

1:43:58behind the question because the question

1:44:00I'm asking isn't the one I should really

1:44:01be asking but when we have like this

1:44:03structured time right we we don't we

1:44:06don't create space for that back and

1:44:08forth so um uh there's oh gosh there's a

1:44:13company right now and I'm forgetting

1:44:14their name but they they teach this

1:44:17concept of uh creating this kind of

1:44:21connection and

1:44:23facilitation in Virtual spaces and how

1:44:28do we how do we create safety it's kind

1:44:32of funny because a friend was like oh

1:44:33you have to attend this because they

1:44:35talk about a lot of the same stuff that

1:44:37you talk about and I attended and it was

1:44:39very much kind of this back and forth

1:44:41that I teach a lot of my clients where

1:44:43we have we have um an initial kind of

1:44:47like stage setting of the call we have

1:44:50some initial sharing that starts to get

1:44:52people comfortable right and then

1:44:54eventually we get to this where it's

1:44:55like we we have a a little bit of

1:44:58teaching a call to action and you send

1:45:00them off to like do it and share about

1:45:02it and then come back together and share

1:45:03and then a little bit of teaching and a

1:45:05call to action and then it's like do the

1:45:07thing go share come back so it's it's

1:45:10constant engagement it keeps people's

1:45:13attention they're actually doing the

1:45:16work on the call so they're making

1:45:18progress which gives them results which

1:45:21you know they're more likely to join

1:45:22your program or stay in your program if

1:45:23they're getting results but in the midst

1:45:25of that they're getting human connection

1:45:28right and that connection makes them

1:45:30sticky it's the same reason that

1:45:34churches they know right well I wouldn't

1:45:37say all churches know but there are

1:45:39books that teach churches about how to

1:45:42get more members get people involved

1:45:44more and they talk about getting them to

1:45:47meet as many people as possible on their

1:45:49first Sunday because the more

1:45:51connections you have the more you are in

1:45:53connections the more likely you are to

1:45:55stay right and then the next level of

1:45:58that is how deep am I going with those

1:46:02connections because there's only so long

1:46:04that I'm okay with it all being surfac

1:46:07right I want to I want to start getting

1:46:09some some depth uh to that relationship

1:46:13over time

1:46:15but that makes a lot of sense do you

1:46:19have any any good ways of getting the

1:46:22members of a Community to develop

1:46:24connections with each

1:46:26other yeah so a lot of it goes back to

1:46:28what we were talking about earlier

1:46:30around that Arc response model where

1:46:31we're actually like pointing people to

1:46:34each other so we're saying oh Sally just

1:46:36asked a question like this last week and

1:46:39tagging Sally in the community and

1:46:41making that connection a lot of people

1:46:43are using directories to do that and

1:46:46asking questions and directories that

1:46:48relate around common interest outside of

1:46:50just like hey what's your LinkedIn

1:46:51profile what's your Instagram handle um

1:46:54you know what are your hobbies what do

1:46:56you like to do what's the last book that

1:46:58you read there's a lot that you can tell

1:47:00about a person in that way but it kind

1:47:03of goes back to those calls that we were

1:47:05talking about one of the easiest ways to

1:47:08create connection is by giving people

1:47:10space to connect and I have a friend who

1:47:13does virtual speed dating for her

1:47:16community like it's a business building

1:47:18Community but she wants them to have

1:47:19connection so they get on Zoom and she

1:47:22sends them an a bra breakouts and Pairs

1:47:24and then like they have like 15 minutes

1:47:26to connect and then she brings them all

1:47:28back in she sends them back out and by

1:47:30the end of an hour you've met at least

1:47:31three to four people and had a chance to

1:47:33talk one-on-one with them and then she

1:47:35encourages them to continue that you

1:47:38know other people do informal or formal

1:47:41accountability groups to help people get

1:47:43connected but it's really simple if we

1:47:46find ways for people to discover

1:47:49uncommon commonalities so if you ask a

1:47:51question like who here um has a uh an

1:47:57online program that serves um teachers

1:48:02right all those people are going to

1:48:04comment they're going to find each other

1:48:06who here has this so they start to find

1:48:10each other in those comments they're

1:48:12finding those uncommon commonalities

1:48:13then the other way is through shared

1:48:15experience so this is where um iners can

1:48:19make a really big difference because

1:48:21iners naturally creates shared

1:48:22experience but you can also do this by

1:48:26let's say for example

1:48:29um there's something going on in your

1:48:31local community and you want to

1:48:32contribute to that cause or whatever it

1:48:34might be it'd be really easy to just be

1:48:35like hey we're going to raise money for

1:48:37this whatever cause that I think is

1:48:41really important but if you're like hey

1:48:44um we really want to support this fire

1:48:48station down the road for me that burned

1:48:50down or whatever it might be hey here's

1:48:51the

1:48:53address my goal is to send a hundred

1:48:57letters to this fire station in support

1:48:59of them totally random but as a shared

1:49:02goal we're having a shared experience

1:49:05around a common cause so now we've like

1:49:07created this cause we've we set a goal

1:49:10for it and we're going to have a shared

1:49:11experience because we're going to work

1:49:13towards that goal together and I'm going

1:49:14to be communicating with you and you're

1:49:15communicating with each other what we're

1:49:17doing towards that shared goal and now

1:49:20we're all going to remember when we hit

1:49:21that goal we're all going to remember

1:49:23that shared experience so there's lots

1:49:25of ways to do it and facilitate it it's

1:49:28just like if you think about it like

1:49:29hosting a party right you walk in you're

1:49:32the party host you don't talk to that

1:49:35person the whole time you can't talk to

1:49:37that person the whole time you know

1:49:39enough about them to go oh you need to