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Promoters VS Operators -- How To Scale To 8-Figures Without Blowing Things Up

Sam Ovens · 6,242 words · 29 min read

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0:00who read the book made in America but

0:03same Alton was it good I don't say it's

0:10one of the best books I've ever read so

0:12you should if you haven't read their

0:14book you're really a responsible

0:16businessman Jeff Bezos makes it

0:20mandatory reading for every executive at

0:22Amazon that it is forced they must read

0:25it made in America by say Moulton

0:35there's a lot but I'm gonna talk about

0:37one main thing right now and that is

0:40that he talks about what's that yeah you

0:53don't want to know or it did their book

0:55[Applause]

1:12so in that book he talks about how the

1:16market that he was in which was

1:18basically you know convenience stores

1:22like just stores that sell things that

1:24people need and all the evolutions that

1:27went through and he talks about how like

1:30the only people that he said he saw so

1:33many people come and go overtime some

1:35people would be winning and then they'd

1:36be bankrupt and like everyone comes and

1:38goes overtime but the only people who

1:41survived were what he called slick

1:45operators and what he talks about is

1:48that at the start of any new market the

1:51main people in it are promoters and when

1:54it first you're when any entrepreneur

1:56starts and business they're a scrappy

1:58promoter they're kind of pulling rabbits

2:00out I had to just promote and get

2:02customers drum up demand get attention

2:05that's how you start but then you have

2:08to evolve into an operator and an

2:10operator is someone who got has good

2:12management good operations good support

2:15they've got good financials good

2:17accounting systems they're you know

2:19they're they're efficient and they're

2:21looking at how they can make every

2:23process better faster stronger cheaper

2:26more reliable and they're constantly

2:28getting better and this is happening in

2:32the internet marketing industry right

2:33now it was full of promoters but they're

2:36all dying right now

2:37a lot of them already did because you

2:40just can't do that anymore the markets

2:41moved and now you need tighter

2:43operations and you also cannot get to

2:46eight figures without being an operator

2:48you can't be someone who just does good

2:51promos and is charismatic and has a big

2:54social media following and all of that

2:55and make eight figures maybe you might

2:57do it for a little bit but then it won't

2:59happen anymore especially as the market

3:02evolves because the slick operators will

3:06will squeeze you out of everything and

3:09so they're really it goes from like you

3:13know

3:13being a promoter to being a operator and

3:25this is what this is the thing that you

3:27have to do to get to eight figures it's

3:30it's a hundred percent required

3:32mandatory you cannot get to eight

3:36figures

3:37as a promoter you need to have dialed in

3:41operations and this is everything your

3:44support your books you'll financials

3:47your every system every little nut and

3:51bolt and the entire business you have to

3:54know it you have to know it inside out

3:56you have to have it machine so it's

3:59going perfectly you have to know how to

4:01troubleshoot it and you have to have

4:02other people watching it and you have to

4:04have the whole machine humming and

4:07balanced and like Tunes to get there and

4:12like - for Sam Walton - like achieve

4:15that you know he was extreme if you see

4:18the things he did on trying to make

4:19things efficient he would he even bought

4:24an aeroplane so he could fly over new

4:26developments and watch the traffic

4:29patterns and see where the main roads

4:31were and see how the town was growing

4:34and see where he was going to put his

4:35stores and then he would go into other

4:38stores and see how they were laying them

4:40out how they were positioning the

4:42products how they were buying it how

4:44they were pricing it by this dude was a

4:46fanatic

4:49he got arrested because completely

4:52Mexican authorities he was actually in a

4:54supermarket measuring

4:56the distance between shelves yeah he

5:03would literally go there and measure

5:04things that with a tape measure he'd

5:06bring a voice recorder an interview like

5:08all of the clerks and the people in

5:09there like it was a fanatic and he just

5:13wanted to machine like just if it was a

5:15little edge and anything he did it and

5:17that meant that no one could beat him

5:20ever because he would get the most yield

5:24on his stores out of anyone by a mile so

5:29people would think that oh you've just

5:30got some store in Arkansas whatever how

5:33do you say that state I can soar so I

5:36see it right so it doesn't end with an S

5:39I don't get that man like hmm I still

5:45don't understand how that happens did

5:48they just just be like oh [ __ ] that is

5:50don't worry about it just just just put

5:52a W there and then they would be like oh

6:00cause he's running some store out and

6:02the warps but like he was making way

6:05more money than like some of the stores

6:07and like Manhattan and other things

6:10because he just had such good operations

6:13his business was so dialed in and it was

6:17it goes way deeper than just promotions

6:20it would go into his fulfillment centers

6:23like we're he would have stock his

6:25products his culture that he would train

6:28people on he also figured it out how to

6:30make like how to turn minimum wage

6:35employees in low-income areas into

6:38people who were more efficient and

6:40productive than educated people in

6:42high-income hearings right he figured

6:44out how to squeeze efficiency everywhere

6:46and that's how he was able to win and

6:51what's crazy is when you read it you'll

6:52realize that this dude really did just

6:55start with one damn store and he would

6:57try and pull rabbits out of hats to get

6:59more customers he would put an ice cream

7:01machine outside or he'd have like some

7:03sort of entertainment like a clown

7:05juggling outside he was a promoter like

7:07that and he would go and buy the

7:08products himself

7:09his car and bring them back in his car

7:12and put them in the store and like he

7:14started off with ones damn store in

7:16Arkansas and then he just grew it brick

7:20by brick like store by store until it

7:23became the largest company on earth and

7:25he was the richest man in the world and

7:27and Walmart was the wealthiest was the

7:30biggest company in the world at a point

7:31and then Jeff Bezos learned from him and

7:34turned out learned how to make that on

7:36the Internet and that's what Amazon it

7:38is it's warm out on the internet and he

7:40ended up taking over his mentor but his

7:43hunt I you can tell his entire business

7:45is based off what he read in Sam

7:46Walton's book that's why he makes it

7:48mandatory reading for every executive

7:54yeah but on company value and he is like

7:59em like Walmart's freaking out trying to

8:02figure out how to do online because

8:04they're not willing to give up their

8:05offline they can't master online you

8:07know so like it's they're gonna win that

8:12race

8:13Amazon absolutely and so if you want to

8:20get from the other there you have to

8:22become an operator so you can't think

8:25I'm not good at management well I'm not

8:27good at the numbers or I'm not good at

8:28the financials or I'm not good at at the

8:31details or I'm not good at this I'm just

8:33good at just being charismatic on the

8:35internet right it's fine you can think

8:37that but you won't get to eight figures

8:39if you want oh you've got to change

8:42you've got to evolve into a different

8:44beast

8:54sure so like in the beginning Sam Walton

8:57only really knew how to promote and work

8:59hard

8:59right that was all he knew but then he

9:02had to learn accounting for his business

9:04so he would literally just come in with

9:07he'd carry his books like his financial

9:10statements to select events and be like

9:12can you please look at these and tell me

9:13like what this means or how we could

9:15save on this so like he had he wanted to

9:18learn everything about his entire

9:20business and you have to do this like

9:22Andrew was a CPA before we still is

9:27because I guess you never aren't and

9:29then he so he knows accounting well it's

9:32one of the main reasons why he's being

9:34able to do it because you need to have

9:36that understanding if you don't

9:37understand the accounting side of your

9:39business you'll never really get tape

9:41figures so you need to understand that

9:45and then and most entrepreneurs just

9:47just hand that off to their accountant

9:49and don't look at it to let they've got

9:50to file their tax returns right you've

9:52got to know that thing well so we'll put

9:56it up here like you got accounting I'm

10:02not saying you have to do your

10:03accounting but you need to know what the

10:05hell it means

10:06and you have to have it like have a

10:10bookkeeper reconcile your books at least

10:13once a week should really be daily we

10:18have someone reconciling our things all

10:20day every day there's too late by then

10:24if you've made a mistake you can't catch

10:27it

10:29cash that's the only thing I have my eye

10:33on either and I've actually set up my

10:35business to a point where I don't even

10:37because we only use debit cards and

10:40because we don't have credit and because

10:41we only use cash and if we make money it

10:44goes into an account as cash and if we

10:46spend money it goes out of an account as

10:47cash I know what we're doing on cash

10:49just by looking at their number because

10:52if we're going up it's going up if we're

10:53going down it's going down but when you

10:55have credit cards multiple accounts and

10:57all of this [ __ ] it's all over here and

10:59it hasn't hit here yet and I don't like

11:01the idea of making a mistake there so I

11:03don't use it so I engineered the whole

11:07business so that I can as glance at

11:09different things in in cents the hole I

11:12can sense like the health in the pulse

11:15of the entire machine just with a couple

11:16of glances at different things that is

11:34just checking that you're going to stay

11:36alive right that's but that's just the

11:39start of it that's my most that's my

11:42biggest concern because if we do run out

11:44of cash we will cease to it is right so

11:46that is like the survival number and we

11:50can go backwards on it but not for too

11:51long and then after that comes like

11:56looking at your ads because that's where

11:58most of our expenses and what our our

12:02wires on that on cash general revenue

12:04and I want to make sure it's at least

12:0520% on cash and then I want to look at

12:08you know my overheads and my payroll and

12:11all of those things and what those are

12:14and how those are impacting it and then

12:19where we should be spending more money

12:21where we should be spending less

12:23constantly looking at it every dollar

12:26should be going to work in the most

12:28efficient way possible

12:31thirty two horses two random

12:34hypothetically you're happy dissipating

12:42these positive blessed way to the

12:44theater 20% less than 1,600 bucks

12:47inquiry

12:55it means that I'm willing I'm willing to

12:59spend 1000 and make 1200 in cash

13:05minimum if I'm spending a grand and

13:08making a grand in cash I know I'm

13:10actually losing money because there's

13:11merchant fees there's gonna be some

13:13charge rates is overhead his all sorts

13:16so if I'm making there I'm losing but if

13:19the 20% margin there it means that worst

13:22case I'm probably breaking even right

13:27and I'm going to collect on the accounts

13:30receivable but I try to do my math on

13:33the most dire numbers possible because

13:36that way I know that I'm being very like

13:40prudent

14:02we don't even use a card for ads it's

14:05hooked straight up to our bank account

14:07no because if they closed em cards it's

14:10like fraud protection ads go down for

14:12like half a day so like that they're

14:15cost too much money I can't afford for

14:17fraud protection to happen so we missed

14:20that link we just connect our bank

14:22account straight to Facebook then

14:25there's no card limits then there's no

14:27issue of the card declining it's just

14:30doesn't break remove the links that can

14:33break

14:36so I hoped my Facebook Ads account

14:39directly to buy a bank account not

14:41through a credit card or even a debit

14:43card

14:50[Music]

14:57[Music]

15:02don't switch your main account

15:21who's had their Facebook had stopped

15:24because their cards declined here used

15:26to happen to us like twice a week so

15:29like I was like this sucks

15:30and then my team would have to call me

15:32because I was the only person that could

15:33call the bank and then my phone was off

15:35or I was busy doing something so I just

15:37it's a potential issue that's going to

15:40happen so you can remove it and the way

15:42to get around it has created different

15:43Facebook Ads account and link that one

15:45to the bank and then start spending a

15:48bit in there and then get its limit

15:49released and then you can use that one

15:51don't do it to your main one yeah but it

15:56won't break when once you've done that

15:58provided you've got money in your bank

16:00account right it might not work in

16:13Australia I don't know it might only be

16:15an American thing you'd have to look

16:27no I think it's just time they want to

16:29get they want to see you use it for

16:31about a week and they want to see the

16:33payments keep working for a week before

16:35they start letting you spend more and

16:47then our Google accounts hooked directly

16:49to our bank - and then you know a lot of

16:53things are hooked directly without cards

16:55because then there's no issue for error

16:59there and then we look at our numbers

17:02all the time every day

17:04all day over full time bookkeeper

17:07looking at them all day every day and

17:10then he's just looking at everything

17:16every day and giving me a cash report

17:18every day telling me what's going on I

17:21have to approve payroll before every run

17:24and then different reports on different

17:27expenses if any expense comes up and he

17:29doesn't know what it is

17:30he'll query it with me so we don't miss

17:33anything if her cent moves I'll see it

17:42we have and

17:53sure yeah so like you've got accounting

18:00then you've got management and what

18:06you'll probably find like I've found is

18:08that you have to build you have to do a

18:11lot still even when like as an

18:14entrepreneur even when you have staff

18:15you can't become a just a full-time

18:17manager because you have to build so I

18:20have to build the courses I have to do

18:22like the Q&A calls I also have to write

18:25copy I have to build the funnels I have

18:27to do different things and a lot of my

18:29time is spent building and builders ant

18:31managers so I can't be a good manager

18:35and if I try to then I won't be a good

18:37builder this is a common problem a lot

18:40of people fall into as soon as they get

18:42some people on their team so you need to

18:44hire a manager once you've got like more

18:46than five people and actually I was

18:50thinking about this this morning you

18:51your person the best person on your team

18:53right now should become your manager you

18:56don't need to hire a manager the person

18:57who already knows the most about your

18:59business knows every detail every in and

19:02out they should become the manager

19:06knowing everything so GC became my

19:11general manager because he was a

19:12customer of mine first and he had been a

19:14customer mind for years so he knew the

19:16product and believed in it important and

19:17was applying it and all of that then he

19:20had worked with me on Facebook Ads then

19:22he had done sales calls and he had seen

19:24everything happens since day one so I

19:26was like if first I was like I need a

19:27manager so I should hire a manager but

19:30then I started looking at managers and

19:32realized how useless they were because

19:35like people who are managers but they

19:37come in with a suit and stuff remember

19:39the people we interviewed it's the holy

19:41[ __ ] there's no way I'm letting that guy

19:44near my business and then I was like

19:46it's actually Jesse he's perfect fit

19:48because he knows it all and then he's

19:50learned how to do the management but the

19:53most important thing is knowing

19:54everything if we enter now every detail

19:58every nuance and how the whole machine

20:01works because you can learn the actual

20:03management so

20:04of it but learning that thing there and

20:07liking it and caring about it and being

20:09passionate about it that's the most

20:10important thing

20:17how would you describe that it's kind of

20:29like like your their building and

20:32Department maybe so let's say you've got

20:35yourself later if you're hiring someone

20:38or if you're hiring first person II need

20:41to say okay whatever there if you guys

20:42would be like you think it's per day was

20:45the quality going to be so you're like

20:47designing what that those KPI should

20:50look like for that position and that

20:52role and then you're hiring that so then

20:55you have to figure with the Job

20:57Description you look like what they're

20:58accountabilities and deliverables when

21:01are they going to report to you these

21:02sorts of structural things but once you

21:04build that out once then it's just more

21:08of a check-in to make sure that they're

21:09doing that repeatedly so it changes to

21:13go like design it build

21:15that management system is first and then

21:18it's just checking information of their

21:20delivering on their KPIs or whatever

21:25I think we've got like 50 people in our

21:28team and I'm pretty sure I only hired

21:29four of them so the manager often ends

21:33up building the whole team's like souls

21:35tell Jesse Jesse I need you to build us

21:37the support team so he would start

21:39writing the Job Description like like

21:43and then you know trying to find people

21:45finding them onboarding them teaching

21:47them what to do trying to develop the

21:48systems to be efficient with it then

21:50once we've got enough support people

21:52then he has to hire a manager to manage

21:54the support people make sure the manager

21:56is doing the job then he can move then

21:58he's building like a a webinar live chat

22:00team hiring all other people managing

22:02them then putting a manager and then

22:04managing the manager and then once

22:05they've got it move next team done that

22:07again next team next team he builds the

22:10teams gets the system and then puts the

22:12manager in charge of the team make sure

22:14the managers doing it then he manages

22:15the managers right it's like without

22:19that I wouldn't wouldn't if it would

22:22have grown

22:35because no like it's amazing no be on my

22:40team okay so the first thing all of our

22:45clock all of our team does is go through

22:47our whole course and the webinar so they

22:51have to watch the entire course

22:59yes so there's this is why you can't you

23:03know you've got a you need a first of

23:05all get a manager and what you need to

23:07find the person who knows the most about

23:08your business and make them a manager

23:10right and then you need to give people

23:15start like thinking about the business

23:17structure like a really key role

23:24definitely has to be the structuring

23:26which is kind of like management so you

23:31always want to think like what's the

23:33design of the business like who are the

23:35managers what are the departments what

23:37are the different functions then who are

23:39the people in the team and what are

23:41their KPIs what are they actually doing

23:42what its success what's failure what's

23:46average and then is everyone all the

23:49eyes on everyone making sure everyone is

23:51doing the right thing at all the at all

23:52times right there is way too much going

23:59on in my business for me to know about

24:00it like so I have to trust different

24:04people are watching different people

24:05that are watching different people that

24:06are watching different people

24:12well I can't control it if I tried to I

24:16wouldn't but I am controlling it by

24:19leasing other people controllers

24:25sometimes they do but then they learn

24:28and if they [ __ ] it up and don't learn

24:30then they get fired like but everyone's

24:33going to make some mistakes right the

24:35main thing is that after someone makes a

24:36mistake

24:37they generally learn from it right so

24:40yeah it's going to happen

24:55it depends though like because it

24:58because I know this feeling because

25:00sometimes you think it's your fault

25:02because there's just no management and

25:04no support structure the air in life

25:06operational there's a charge you know

25:17these masterminds of these programs to

25:20teach you how to run your company and

25:22create SOPs and they always preach that

25:25you know it's your fault it's your fault

25:26your fault

25:27you're the leader your team's fine if

25:28your fault is your fault most of the

25:31time honestly it is because they're

25:33management's so bad that the damn person

25:35doesn't have what's their take to help

25:37them and so most the time it is I'd have

25:40to agree but if the management is good

25:42and the person has the good management

25:44and they continue for covers their fault

25:47yeah yes but you have to know like it's

25:52their fault

26:05nohe well actually we don't define the

26:08kpi's until we've let people do it

26:10because we have no idea we just be

26:12guessing

26:12so when Jesse built the support team he

26:15hired all the different people put the

26:16manager in place and then had to keep

26:20babysitting the manager and then he

26:22couldn't go into other things so we had

26:24to get rid of the manager and bring

26:25another manager in and as soon as we did

26:26that it the performances went Paul and

26:28then he could leave that manager to do

26:30this job and I never once knew what the

26:35kpi's were by all we had any design into

26:41it Jesse and the manager did it

26:47[Music]

26:52no maybe a mastermind member if it's a

26:57suit of a proper serious question but

26:59like no I do the live streams for the

27:02for that and then I do the QA for

27:06quantum and then the QA for up level and

27:09that's the place to ask me I might reply

27:13every now and then in the Facebook group

27:14but that said it's impossible for me to

27:18be able to talk to everyone all the time

27:20and surprisingly no one even messages me

27:22ever I might get one message on Facebook

27:26a week and zero emails in a month from

27:30anyone yeah but honestly then it's

27:44they've just knowing it anyway so it's

27:46not even hard because they're just they

27:48psyched and they knew they'd say so when

27:51we told them they'd lie fine now they

27:56just weren't into it like they was just

27:59a way to make money anyone that's doing

28:02something just for the money they're

28:04gonna get fired

28:10sometimes but also sometimes in the

28:12beginning you're more desperate so

28:14you're kind of willing to hire anyone

28:15and then later on when you you're not

28:19then you can start flushing out there

28:22but quite often some of your first hires

28:24are out of desperation because you just

28:27need [ __ ] somebody you don't even

28:28care and it is better than nothing but

28:31later on you've got to make sure that

28:32their performance keeps going up you

28:35have to lift the bar well we can do it

28:50Jeannie does and just fire the bottom

28:51team scene every year

28:55Wow

28:57not really I mean if someone's the

29:02absolutely low-performing I mean that

29:03means that they're not yeah at least not

29:12in the big guys it's not necessary in

29:14the beginning I think once you get up to

29:16a like you know if you were doing I

29:20think the right time to probably do that

29:22is like five six hundred grand a month

29:24sort of thing or maybe even three

29:27hundred grand a month but like if

29:32they're working from home how do you

29:34know why like if there's an issue with

29:38their performance how do you know if

29:40it's because they're not well what is

29:42the role right so if it's customer

29:43support it's better for us to just look

29:46at the numbers and help Scout then to

29:49actually see them because if when you

29:50see someone and they're not there you

29:52might be like they see slacking off

29:53which is totally irrational but if you

29:56look at the numbers you're like how many

29:57tickets if they done today what's their

29:58happiness score and how are they

30:00averaging for the week and all that and

30:02it's better to just manage them like

30:04that it's better I wanted to get an

30:12office purely because I wanted to do

30:17like my platform which was like I needed

30:20a product manager who could understand

30:23my vision of that and then manage all of

30:24my engineers and front end designers and

30:27all that which is complex and I didn't

30:29really want to have to have that

30:30conversation over the virtually and all

30:32of that you know so I wanted that person

30:35to be there I actually wanted an office

30:38so that all the managers could be here

30:39and then I don't really mind with their

30:41team members are so like we often have

30:44the managers here but their team is

30:46virtual make sense yeah

30:52because I quite like the idea especially

30:54when we get a bit bigger is that you

30:57know all the managers are in here so I

30:59can have that tight relationship and I

31:01can just ping anywhere I want and get a

31:03feedback of what's going on in that part

31:05make a decision make a decision but

31:08they're team members they don't need to

31:09be here

31:10it depends on the role like support

31:13definitely doesn't live chat and that

31:15definitely doesn't either think strategy

31:17sessions they don't need to be because

31:18they need silence and then the engineers

31:23like developers they don't need to be

31:25you you don't want them to be they're

31:26too expensive here and then you want but

31:32I wanted the media buyers to be here

31:35marketing manager to be here data

31:37scientists to be here product manager

31:41yeah

31:46the hard stuff I wanted close to me but

31:49yeah but honestly if I didn't hire it's

31:54so hard to hire somebody yourself while

31:56doing everything else that it was like

31:58the most draining thing the hardest

32:00thing ever to just make like one or two

32:01hires but as soon as I put a team in

32:03place like GC and a management team they

32:06just hired everyone it's like who hired

32:09my Facebook media buyer and the YouTube

32:12media buyer was Fisher so I hired Nick

32:16Fisher then he hired his team so you

32:19don't really want to hire someone's team

32:21you kind of want to hire them and then

32:23let them build their team

32:29we teach it because it takes so much

32:31time I have to teach them at

32:38it's a good question so I think the

32:42first thing you want to do just the best

32:44way to know when to hire is when the

32:46pain is extreme so like you said it was

32:51support because we do that hundred units

32:54of time thing right where is it all

32:56going you're probably going into your

32:58customer support so the first person you

33:00should have hired what you did was a

33:01customer support person that's when you

33:04do it then you know if it's if you're

33:07maxed out on strategy sessions and

33:09customer support isn't really an issue

33:10which is more common in high ticket then

33:12it's a sales rep and then what about

33:15when they get maxed out it's another

33:16sales rep what about when they would get

33:18maxed outs another sales rep but now all

33:20you need someone to manage those sales

33:22reps then you get one of them but now

33:23you need someone to do the ads better to

33:25fill all of their calendars well now

33:26it's a media buyer but now you've got

33:29all of this other [ __ ] going on so now

33:30it's a community manager but now you've

33:33got too many people so now it's a

33:34general manager to manage them all right

33:40you start with what where the pain is

33:44because in your case that was customer

33:46support but I know in most people's case

33:48with the strategy sessions it's the

33:50phone and as soon as they've got that

33:53nailed and then it's a few more sales

33:55reps then it comes to the ads part then

33:58once you get those two parts nailed it

33:59comes into operations like a community

34:02manager that's very helpful because

34:05you've got the calls running you need

34:06the recordings running you've got the

34:08Facebook groups running you need someone

34:10near to kind of balance all of that and

34:11then make sure it runs like clockwork

34:14you don't want to drop the ball anywhere

34:16and then customer support becomes an

34:21issue and you want to make sure you make

34:22that good good support makes you more

34:25money

34:35what are we holding yes do you map of

34:43all the different people you should be

34:46hiring basic it differs but unlike what

34:53your issue is and what your model is

34:55like it's where the pain is there's

34:57always where the person should be hired

34:58but once you get to your stage we've got

35:01as many people as you have you need a

35:02manager

35:03you can't hire any more people you are

35:06the manager right now but you can't

35:08manage because you need to build but you

35:10can't build because you need to manage

35:12so you're not building or managing

35:15drinking you need good management is so

35:27important

35:28without that the whole thing would just

35:29go chaos because everybody needs to be

35:34watched in detail they need to be fact

35:38checked they need to be if all I of

35:40someone's eyes aren't on someone all the

35:42time they're gonna play up well I told

35:49you Jesse was a customer of mine and

35:51then he was he would knew the most about

35:52my business so he just became the

35:54manager even though he had never really

35:56done management but then I just told him

35:59to learn it and then he did over time

36:01and then Fisher for marketing I found

36:06him from another company

36:13sort of I mean both me and Sam

36:17we started his same kinda teach me up on

36:19his style which is pretty similar to my

36:21already

36:22I found Nick because he knew how to do

36:27Infusionsoft copywriting Facebook heads

36:30YouTube ads and funnels and like jayvees

36:35and like social media he knew everything

36:38I was like well this guy's like pretty

36:40much running the entire company which he

36:43pretty much was which was what I was

36:44extremely hard to get in because the

36:46whole other company was about to

36:48collapse so I had to wean him off

36:50because I didn't want to hurt that other

36:52company you know what I mean so like I

36:55like people that have that know

36:58everything they make good managers the

37:02Google call them t-shaped people so they

37:04know a lot they know a lot about quite a

37:07broad range of things but there they can

37:10go deep on one specific thing because

37:13you don't want someone who only knows

37:14one piece but not all the other pieces

37:16they've got to know a lot so thinking

37:21that I could find someone that knew Ads

37:22Facebook copywriting jayvees all of it I

37:25was like man and then I I was talking to

37:30Nick by chance

37:31well actually what happened is he

37:33messaged me wanting to trade like

37:37knowledge because he said he knew a lot

37:39about YouTube ads and he wanted to tell

37:41me what was work on YouTube in exchange

37:43for me telling him what was working on

37:44Facebook so I oh yeah cool then I worked

37:47out I was like wait a minute he's

37:49actually going out of his way to do this

37:52I was like no one does that he's

37:55actually going out of his way to make

37:56the company better and then I knew that

37:59I found out that he knew everything

38:00about everything and then on that call I

38:02was I actually joined a job and then and

38:05that was there but you want to find

38:08those people that have broad knowledge

38:10so Jesse knows everything about my

38:13business fishing you knows everything

38:15about marketing and how that works and

38:17then for our specific people we want

38:19them just to go like deep on like

38:21Facebook ads or YouTube ads but the

38:23managers have to be good generalists and

38:26also goods kind of good at specialists

38:29they like t-shaped yeah

38:33to see you it depends on what the

38:44department is so like media buying

38:46absolutely has to be incentivized you

38:48know because it's it's crucial strategy

38:51session people would have to be

38:52incentivized but like customer support

38:55and other functions don't so much need

38:57to be incentivized but we haven't really

39:00got our incentivize Asian things like

39:02dialed in this year I'm planning to roll

39:05in like stock options and things like

39:07that to make sure that everyone has an

39:11owner instead of an employee do you

39:19profit on cash incentive where the

39:23incentives must be aligned on the thing

39:25that's important yeah it seems like the

39:29vast majority of media buyers these days

39:43the incentives have to be aligned

39:45perfectly owl still aren't that we need

39:48to do things we need to do a lot more

39:50there because you know really stock

39:54options are the best and my eyes because

39:56that's long-term like thinking plus I

40:01think Jeff Bezos said it best in his

40:03first leaders to shareholders he said if

40:06we want to be the best and survive the

40:09long term we need a team of people who

40:12think and act like owners therefore they

40:16must actually be an owner because the

40:18only way to make someone truly think and

40:20act like one is to make them one same

40:22with Sam Walton I think he learned that

40:23from him

40:24because that's what he did he made

40:26everyone an owner

40:35they said like what's he want to do

40:36people see you don't have a YouTube fire

40:38right they say run a contest where you

40:41give everybody a thousand bucks and

40:43giving you five people in the contest to

40:45be mall a thousand dollars an ad spend

40:48and whoever you know doesn't investigate

40:52the most profit on cash gets the job you

40:56could do that what we did is we just

40:58went looking at like like media buyers

41:03who knew if all the technical stuff had

41:05good experience and they would winning

41:07hard battles so like Tommy was doing he

41:12was media buying for like what do they

41:14call it CPA so he was doing media buying

41:17to like get leads for colleges and then

41:20it's hyper competitive and it's also if

41:24you can make that work you're good and

41:25so like really good at they're a nuanced

41:28there and then Jordan our Facebook guy

41:30he was doing like affiliate offers on

41:33Facebook so they knew the platform and

41:35everything but then we taught them

41:37everything we knew and it took them six

41:38months to get good you have to

41:41understand that no one's gonna be real

41:42good until six months to a year but they

41:45have to how you have to hire for

41:46potential and then make them good you're

41:49never gonna find someone who comes in

41:51good and if you do you're gonna pay

41:53through the nose for it but they don't

41:55really exist anyway so hire for

42:00potential make them good

42:03first couple of people say my case once

42:06it gets to be too much for me to do

42:07strategy so the first couple of

42:09themselves guys I've also potentially

42:12looking to move into a management

42:14business growth so you're looking for

42:16that management

42:20yeah sales might act differently just

42:24because their function is like sometimes

42:26sales people just want to keep hunting

42:27they don't want to manage so you might

42:29want to bring a manager in but pretty

42:32much every other role yeah once someone

42:33gets good at they can become a manager

42:35just don't worry about the future you

42:42need a start first

42:48you

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