No. 1 Sugar Expert: You've Been Sold A Lie About "Healthy" Food!

0:00People say, "Oh, Alzheimer's is

0:01genetic." Garbage. That genetic

0:03component is only 5%. So, that means 95%

0:07of Alzheimer's risk is environmental.

0:09Air pollution, microplastics,

0:11ultra-processed food. And a paper just

0:14came out showing that sweetener

0:16consumption correlates with dementia.

0:18And we think we know why.

0:19>> And you've not talked about this

0:20publicly yet.

0:21>> No, let's talk.

0:22>> Dr. Robert Lustig is a world-leading

0:24sugar expert

0:25>> who's teaching the world how to reclaim

0:27their health from the industry that

0:29profits off your vulnerability.

0:31>> 73% of the items in the American grocery

0:34store are poison because sugar is hidden

0:36in all the foods. For instance, there's

0:38262 names for sugar, and the food

0:40industry uses all of them because they

0:41knew when they added you buy more. But

0:43the problem is that's providing people

0:45with a dopamine hit, and that dopamine

0:47is addictive. And that's when you

0:48actually have a biochemical and medical

0:51problem. And we have data to show that

0:53ultra-processed food has been associated

0:55with dementia, diabetes, cancer, every

0:57single mental health disease. So, the

0:59question is, how can you buy healthy

1:01food and not be tempted by the bad

1:03stuff? So, first, if a food has a label,

1:06it's a warning label. The second thing,

1:08if any food has a sugar in the first

1:10three ingredients, it's dessert. And

1:12then when they go to the store, don't go

1:14hungry.

1:15>> And what about exercise?

1:16>> Well, it doesn't really impact your

1:18desire to reach for sugar. It has its

1:20own metabolic benefits. But if you think

1:22exercise is going to make you lose

1:24weight, you are deluded. And we can talk

1:27about that.

1:28>> So, with all of this in mind, if I've

1:29got a sugar problem or if I've got an

1:31addiction problem, what is the remedy?

1:32>> I will tell you that this is one of the

1:34things I did in my obesity clinic. So,

1:37the only way you're going to be able to

1:39fix the problem is

1:41>> I see messages all the time in the

1:43comment section that some of you didn't

1:44realize you didn't subscribe. So, if you

1:46could do me a favor and double-check if

1:48you're a subscriber to this channel,

1:49that would be tremendously appreciated.

1:50It's the simple, it's the free thing

1:53that anybody that watches this show

1:54frequently can do to help us here to

1:55keep everything going in this show in

1:57the trajectory it's on. So, please do

1:59double check if you subscribed and uh

2:01thank you so much because in a strange

2:02way you are you're part of our history

2:05and you're on this journey with us and I

2:06appreciate you for that. So, yeah, thank

2:08you.

2:12Dr. Robert, good to have you back.

2:14>> Oh, my pleasure.

2:15>> I am

2:16particularly fascinated by this term

2:19hostage brain. I know you're in the

2:20early stages of working on a book about

2:22this subject, but for anyone that

2:23doesn't understand, so when I look at

2:25this word the hostage brain,

2:27I think of all the times that I've been

2:29out of control.

2:31And when I say out of control, I I

2:32I'm going to let you define it, but when

2:34I say out of control, I mean there's so

2:35many things I want to do as it relates

2:37to my health, my fitness, other aspects

2:40of my life, whether it's avoiding eating

2:41the cookie at 2:00 a.m. in a hotel room

2:44somewhere, or other areas of my life

2:47where I want to have greater elements of

2:49control. What does What do you mean by

2:51the hostage brain?

2:53>> All of us want to be in control,

2:55Stephen. I mean, it's the nature of

2:58humanity. We want to be in control. We

3:01want to be in control of our lives.

3:02Unfortunately, many of us want to be in

3:04control of everyone else's lives

3:06as we've seen play out on grand stages

3:08lately.

3:09Okay? Everyone wants to be in control

3:10and the reason we want to be in control

3:12is because then we can mitigate threat.

3:16When you're in control, then threat is

3:18low because you're in control.

3:21Problem is

3:22we're not in control.

3:24The more in control,

3:26the more a specific area of your brain

3:29is basically glomming on. And that area

3:32of the brain is known as the amygdala.

3:34The amygdala

3:35is

3:37your fear center. So, also your 24-hour

3:40century. But really what the amygdala

3:42is, it's the point guard on your

3:44basketball team.

3:45Okay? So, it surveys the entire court,

3:49sees the offense and the defense, and

3:51has to make split-second decisions.

3:54Who's going to score?

3:56Now, a lousy point guard takes all the

3:58shots.

4:00A good point guard passes off to the guy

4:03who has the best shot.

4:05A great point guard is going to be able

4:07to figure out if he's going to score or

4:09if he's going to pass it off to somebody

4:10else. If you're in control,

4:14and

4:14your level of threat goes down.

4:18But, really,

4:20your control is an illusion.

4:22You really don't have control.

4:25And the more you try to exert it,

4:29the more you realize you're not in

4:30control. And what that does is that

4:33generates an enormous amount of stress

4:36and an enormous enormous amount of pain.

4:39Now, that pain can turn inward,

4:42and we call that depression.

4:45And right now, 29%

4:47of Americans are depressed.

4:50And 4.4% of the entire world

4:53is depressed.

4:54These numbers were infinitesimal

4:57a generation ago. And they're basically,

5:00you know, just, you know,

5:02pushing up further and further. And the

5:04reason is because of this

5:07inappropriate illusion

5:09of control.

5:10And it's causing an enormous amount of

5:12pain.

5:14How do you mollify that pain?

5:17How do you basically deal with the

5:19psychological pain

5:21of lack of control

5:24that you yourself put upon yourself?

5:27Well, we have loads of ways.

5:29Cocaine, amphetamine, nicotine, alcohol,

5:32sugar, gambling, uh uh social media,

5:36internet gaming, uh pornography, pick

5:38your poison.

5:40That's dopamine.

5:43Dopamine basically

5:45provides you with a little bit of

5:47pleasure on top of a whole lot of pain.

5:50The problem is

5:52that dopamine is addictive.

5:54And so, when you apply a set of

5:58pleasures to try to deal with your pain

6:01of lack of control,

6:03that puts you into a never-ending cycle

6:05of consumption and misery.

6:09That's the hostage brain.

6:10>> What do I need to understand about

6:12dopamine in order to cuz I think

6:14sometimes awareness is step one in being

6:16able to do something about a problem

6:18that you might have.

6:19So, what do I need to understand about

6:21what dopamine is and what it's doing in

6:22my brain and how it's sort of associated

6:25with addiction

6:26to then be able to do something about

6:28it, which I consider step two.

6:30>> So, dopamine basically has two

6:33functions.

6:34The first is learning.

6:36There's no learning without dopamine.

6:38Anytime you learn something, whether

6:40it's positive or negative,

6:42it's because there was a dopamine

6:44release.

6:45When you put your hand down on a hot

6:47stove when you were 3 years old and went

6:50I'm never doing that again. Okay? That

6:53was dopamine that did that.

6:55Okay? And what it did was it went to

6:57your amygdala and it rewired it.

7:00That was a rewiring of your amygdala due

7:03to the excitatory

7:05neuro stimulus of that dopamine

7:07affecting an area of your brain called

7:10the basolateral amygdala.

7:12Okay? And it laid down and it set up a

7:15circuit.

7:16And that circuit is still working in you

7:18right now.

7:20Okay?

7:21So, dopamine is the learning

7:23neurotransmitter.

7:26It can be for negative learning, it can

7:28be for positive learning.

7:29Either way.

7:31Dopamine is also, when it's going to

7:34another area of the brain called the

7:36nucleus accumbens, which is the reward

7:38center,

7:40that is

7:42a stimulus for reward. That is the

7:44motivation for reward.

7:48That is, in

7:50one word,

7:51foreplay.

7:53Okay? That is the excitement.

7:56The reason for continuing any given

8:01behavior.

8:02Okay? You get both

8:05out of dopamine. Okay? And in short,

8:08small bursts in the right venue,

8:13that's how we navigate life.

8:15We navigate it through learning, and we

8:17navigate it through

8:19reward.

8:21You can't do it without dopamine.

8:24Dopamine is good.

8:26Unless it's bad.

8:27And as you know, everything in science

8:30is both good and bad.

8:32The problem is chronic overstimulation

8:34of any neuron leads to neuronal cell

8:36death. Dopamine is a chronic stimulator.

8:40And so, if you have chronic dopamine

8:43being released,

8:46what's going to happen is you're going

8:47to kill the next neuron.

8:49Now, that neuron doesn't want to die.

8:52So, it downregulates the receptors for

8:55dopamine, so that it's less likely that

8:58one dopamine over here is going to find

9:00the receptor over here to bind to, cuz

9:02there are fewer of them.

9:03So, what that means is

9:05more and more for less and less. And we

9:08call that phenomenon tolerance.

9:10More dopamine, more tolerance. So, the

9:13law of diminishing returns. So,

9:17you get a hit, you get a rush.

9:19>> It could be a sugar, alcohol, whatever

9:21it might be. Pick your pornography.

9:22>> Yeah.

9:23>> Pick your poison. Doesn't matter.

9:25You get a hit, you get a rush, receptors

9:27go down, next time you need a bigger hit

9:29to get the same rush, receptors go down,

9:31and then you need a bigger hit, and a

9:32bigger hit, and a bigger hit, until

9:33finally you get a huge hit to get

9:35nothing.

9:36That's called tolerance.

9:38And then,

9:39when the neurons actually start to die,

9:42that's called addiction.

9:44So, tolerance is the start of addiction.

9:47And the problem is more dopamine, more

9:50tolerance, more tolerance, more

9:51addiction.

9:52>> So, people that are getting addicted to

9:55unhealthy foods and sugars and those

9:57kinds of things,

9:59what's like going on in their brain?

10:01>> So,

10:02at first,

10:04the first time they tasted it, you know,

10:05whatever it is, whether it's a a Fruit

10:07Loop or a, you know, uh candy corn or a

10:11um

10:12you know, a Frappuccino or you know,

10:13pick your pick your poison.

10:15Um

10:16you you get this big, you know, sort of,

10:18you know, sugar bomb going off in your

10:21head and you go, "Wow, this is great,

10:24you know, I want some more of this."

10:26>> And what is that sugar?

10:27>> down the whole Frappuccino, okay. And

10:29what you've done is you've basically hit

10:32your nucleus accumbens with a big slug

10:35of dopamine

10:37and you go, "Wow, that was great." And

10:39then an hour later it's gone and then

10:41you go, "God, I need that again."

10:43Okay?

10:44So, the first time you got it, you liked

10:46it. The second time you did it, you

10:49wanted it.

10:50And the third time,

10:52you needed it.

10:54So, that's the difference between liking

10:55and wanting and needing.

10:57Okay? Cuz liking we all do.

10:59And no one wants to take away liking.

11:01Wanting gets into problems

11:04because you can over abuse things.

11:07Needing is when you actually have a

11:10biochemical and medical problem.

11:12>> So, with all of this in mind, if I've

11:13got a sugar problem or if I've got an

11:15addiction problem, I'm addicted to

11:16insert poison,

11:19what is what is the the remedy? Just

11:22avoid it for a while and then if that is

11:24the remedy, what what's going on in my

11:25brain? Is it fixing itself?

11:27>> There are many remedies,

11:29okay? And they can all be used in

11:31conjunction with each other.

11:33Ultimately,

11:34the only thing that's going to work is

11:36getting those dopamine receptors back

11:38up. Remember I told you dopamine down

11:40regulates its own receptor.

11:42The only way you're going to be able to

11:43fix the problem is for the dopamine

11:45receptors to come back up.

11:48There's a uh

11:49uh

11:50a trend going on right now out in

11:52Silicon Valley you may have heard of

11:54called dopamine fasting.

11:56>> Ah, okay.

11:57>> Yeah, I've heard the word.

11:58>> You basically people lock themselves up

12:00in a hotel room for 3 weeks. Okay, don't

12:04take a shower.

12:06And um you know, basically, you know,

12:09take the TVs out of the room and um

12:12you know,

12:13try to commune with uh themselves and

12:15with nature with no stimuli, with no

12:18external stimuli in order to bring their

12:21dopamine receptors back up.

12:24Particularly true of cocaine addicts

12:25because their dopamine receptors are way

12:28down because after all cocaine is a

12:31dopamine reuptake inhibitor. So, it's

12:33flooding the zone with dopamine.

12:36Therefore,

12:37those receptors are, you know, down in

12:39the sewer.

12:40Now, do you have to be that severe? No,

12:43of course not.

12:45But, does it work?

12:47Takes 3 weeks. You want to do it for 3

12:49weeks? Yeah, then it works.

12:51Other ways, you know, you can wean

12:53yourself off. You can do abstinence. The

12:56And if you if you can do abstinence,

12:58that's a good idea.

13:00Hard to do, especially when it's, you

13:03know, staring at you and when it's

13:04available 24/7 365 like sugar is.

13:08You know, it's everywhere. It's on every

13:10street corner.

13:11>> When I when I fast or when I do the

13:13ketogenic diet, I lose my

13:16apparent cravings.

13:18>> That's right.

13:19Exactly right.

13:21>> Hm.

13:21>> And the reason is because no sugar in in

13:24a ketogenic diet.

13:26So, you're basically removing the

13:28offensive stimulus.

13:30>> I was so shocked. I love those cinnamon

13:32roll things. Not that I I probably want

13:33every 2 years, but I love them

13:35nonetheless. I'm like a big admirer even

13:36though we don't have a relationship

13:37anymore. And I when I did the ketogenic

13:41diet for about I was on I was 4 weeks in

13:43of not having any sugar and or

13:45carbohydrates, and I walked up to this

13:47concession in Cape Town with these all

13:49these amazing cinnamon rolls that are

13:50like specialists, and I looked at them,

13:53and there was zero part of my brain that

13:55was interested in any of it. Zero part

13:57of my brain, and I was like, "Wow, my

13:59brain has been like rewired or

14:00something."

14:02Just because I've removed sugar from my

14:03diet.

14:06>> It happens.

14:07It But, it takes a while.

14:09It's not something that, you know, you

14:11can turn on and off.

14:12It takes

14:14a fair amount of time.

14:16I will tell you that, you know, this is

14:18one of the things I did in my obesity

14:21clinic, you know, on a daily basis was

14:23getting people off their sugar

14:25addiction.

14:27>> How did you

14:27>> And sometimes you have to basically baby

14:29sit them. You have to, you know, work

14:31with them and with the work with their

14:32parents in order to, you know, basically

14:35turn over the entire pantry.

14:37Because the sugar's hidden in all the

14:39foods, you know? I mean, it's it's

14:41There's 262 names for sugar, and the

14:44food industry uses all of them. This is

14:46why we are trying to get sugar addiction

14:48and ultra-processed food addiction

14:50codified by the WHO and by the American

14:53Psychiatric Association as a bonafide

14:57diagnosis so that we can get remediation

14:59and therapy therapy for people.

15:02>> One of the things that was one of the

15:03most popular parts of our conversation

15:05last time, Robert, was there's a section

15:06where we talked about the different

15:08types of sugar and diet Cokes and Coke

15:11Zeros and all these kinds of things.

15:14You know, I if I'm I can see a couple of

15:16cans on the desk over there where where

15:18Jack is

15:19in the darkness that I can vaguely see.

15:21And

15:23these kinds of fizzy drink, they all

15:25have some kind of sugar substitute.

15:26>> Yep.

15:27>> Are those sugar substitutes harmless?

15:30>> No. Of course not.

15:31Um a paper just came out like 3 days ago

15:35in Annals of Neurology

15:37uh basically showing that uh

15:39uh

15:40non-nutritive sweetener consumption, so

15:44diet sweetener consumption, uh

15:46correlates with dementia.

15:49And we think we know why.

15:51>> Why?

15:52>> Reactive oxygen species. So, oxygen

15:55radicals, uh little chemicals that are

15:58given off from various substances that

16:01cause

16:02changes in energy metabolism in cells

16:05and also cause damage in cells.

16:08ROSs, reactive oxygen species. The

16:11famous ones are aspartame and sucralose.

16:15Now,

16:16do monk fruit extract, do stevia, does

16:19allulose

16:21also cause reactive oxygen species? I

16:23very specifically looked for data on

16:25those, could not find it. But for

16:27aspartame and for sucralose, the two

16:30biggest ones that are available today,

16:33the ones that are used in a lot of diet

16:35drinks,

16:36huge amounts of ROS generation.

16:40>> ROS?

16:40>> So,

16:41reactive oxygen species generation. So,

16:44anything that generates ROSs contributes

16:47to

16:48uh dementia.

16:49>> Is the evidence strong at this stage?

16:52>> Yeah, it's pretty darn strong. I'm

16:53actually giving a talk about this next

16:55week in San Diego.

16:56>> I heard you've got a a new theory on the

17:00causes of Alzheimer's dementia that's

17:02somewhat linked. This is it.

17:03>> Yeah.

17:04Can you explain that to me? And you've

17:06you've not talked about this publicly

17:07yet. You you

17:08You're set to talk about it in a couple

17:09of days, I hear.

17:10>> Uh let me uh take it back a step, okay?

17:13There is this organelle inside our

17:16brains called mitochondria.

17:19You've heard of mitochondria. Yeah. For

17:20the for your audience, mitochondria are

17:22the little energy burning factories

17:23inside each of our cells. What they do

17:26is they take food energy and turn it

17:28into the chemical energy that your cell

17:31can actually use to power itself.

17:34Okay? And that chemical energy has a

17:35name. It's called ATP.

17:38Now,

17:38if you took biology in high school,

17:41you've heard of ATP, adenosine

17:43triphosphate. The energy is in the

17:45phosphate bonds.

17:47So,

17:48ATP

17:50will give up its energy and go to ADP,

17:53diphosphate, which will then give up its

17:55energy and go to AMP, monophosphate,

17:59which will then finally go to adenosine.

18:02And adenosine binds to the adenosine

18:05receptor and makes you go to sleep.

18:07>> Mhm.

18:07>> By the way, that's where caffeine works.

18:09It blocks the adenosine receptor,

18:11keeping you awake so that the adenosine

18:13can't bind to the adenosine receptor.

18:16Okay? So, that ATP

18:19is the currency of the cell.

18:22That's what makes the cell run.

18:25Anything that depletes ATP

18:28is going to put the cell at risk.

18:30>> Mhm.

18:31>> Okay? Because it doesn't have the energy

18:33it needs to run.

18:34>> Yeah. It's like it's gasoline.

18:36>> It's like gasoline. So, what happens

18:38when you start running out of gasoline?

18:41>> Well, you break down.

18:42>> You'll break down.

18:43So, brain fog,

18:46difficulty concentrating,

18:48irritability,

18:50and ultimately, all the way to

18:52depression.

18:53So, the amount of ATP within any given

18:56neuron

18:58is the

19:00approximate cause of neuronal

19:02dysfunction

19:04that we see as neurocognitive and

19:07neurobehavioral change.

19:09Now,

19:11how do mitochondria and how do ROSes fit

19:13into this?

19:16Mitochondria make ATP.

19:19But every time they make ATP, they make

19:21also make ROSes.

19:23There are 11 steps in mitochondria and

19:25they all give off ROSes. Now, those

19:28ROSes

19:29are going to damage the cell.

19:32They have to be gotten rid of.

19:33They're like

19:35toxic fumes.

19:36They got to be gotten rid of. And so, we

19:39have a pathway in each cell of our body

19:42to get rid of the toxic ROSes.

19:45Okay?

19:46They're called antioxidants.

19:49Like

19:50glutathione, vitamin E, vitamin C,

19:54host of other uh flavonoids.

19:57Okay? Those basically quench those

20:00reactive oxygen species. They go to die.

20:05If you do that, then the ROSes basically

20:08just get funneled away and all is well

20:10and the cell can keep working.

20:12But if for some reason those

20:14antioxidants aren't up to par, if for

20:17instance you've been eating

20:18ultra-processed food and you can't make

20:21your antioxidant complement, then the

20:24ROSes feed back and what happens is

20:26the ROSes are basically telling the

20:28cell, "Hey, you're shunting too much

20:31energy down this pathway because

20:35I can't clear them. So, there's too much

20:38stuff.

20:40So,

20:41shut it down."

20:43And so, what happens is that instead of

20:45funneling the glucose into the

20:47mitochondria to generate more ATP, it

20:50diverts it and it goes off into other

20:52directions like glycogen, which is in

20:55the brain is not good, or fat, which is

20:57even worse.

20:59And bottom line, your cell is now not

21:03energy producing like it used to be. It

21:06is now been reduced in terms of its

21:09energy capacity.

21:12What's that going to do? That's going to

21:13reduce ATP generation.

21:15Okay, that's step one.

21:18Now, step two.

21:21There's this stuff called cortisol.

21:23Cortisol comes from stress.

21:26Cortisol comes from sleep deprivation.

21:28Cortisol comes from exogenous

21:30glucocorticoids, like steroids being

21:33given to people for, you know,

21:35autoimmune disease or for uh

21:37you know,

21:39other uh

21:40illnesses.

21:42Okay? That cortisol causes neurons to

21:45increase in um

21:48metabolism. Causes them to burn energy

21:51faster.

21:53Okay, so you now you have an increased

21:55ATP utilization.

21:57So, you have a decreased ATP generation.

21:59Now, you have an increased ATP

22:01utilization.

22:03Now, you've got an energy crisis inside

22:06each cell. Now, your ATP can't keep up

22:09with the needs of the cell. And when

22:11that happens, now you've got symptoms.

22:14Whether it's brain fog or irritability

22:18or all the way to frank depression.

22:21Okay, now

22:23step three.

22:26There are these proteins inside each

22:28neuron

22:29called

22:30amyloid precursor peptide, APP.

22:34Okay? It's a normal protein in all

22:37cells.

22:38Every cell in your body has APP.

22:41It needs to stay in solution.

22:44And in order for it to stay in solution,

22:46it energy has to be applied to it in

22:49order to keep it in solution. The minute

22:51the ATP in the cell goes down, they come

22:54out of solution and they start forming

22:58um aggregates, which we call

23:01plaques.

23:02>> Yeah.

23:03>> Okay? And those plaques damage the cell,

23:07which then start an inflammatory process

23:12uh in the cells next door called the

23:14microglia in order to clean up the

23:16process. And now you've got plaques and

23:18an inflammation.

23:20And now you've got neuronal cell death.

23:24That's dementia.

23:26So, it starts

23:28with an ATP energy crisis,

23:31moves through

23:33plaque and inflammation

23:35to generate neuronal cell death.

23:38Well, this is problematic to say the

23:41least. And by the way, anything that

23:43generates ROSs

23:45has been associated with Alzheimer's.

23:47Anything that increases ATP utilization,

23:50like stress, glucocorticoids, fever,

23:53autoimmune disease,

23:55also increases Alzheimer's. So, anything

23:58that increases step one, anything that

23:59increases step two,

24:01ultimately leads to increased step three

24:04and Alzheimer's.

24:05>> So, to simplify this in a couple of

24:07sentences for someone that has no

24:08scientific understanding, and we're

24:11going to have to cut a few corners here

24:13scientifically in order to to for them

24:15to have a framework to understand it.

24:17How would you give me some sort of an

24:19analogy for it? Maybe in the context of

24:21I guess a petrol station and a car.

24:23>> Yeah. So, I mean, if we're basically

24:24doing petrol, we're talking energy only.

24:27>> Yeah.

24:27>> Okay? So, bottom line,

24:30your car runs on petrol.

24:33>> Mhm.

24:34>> Okay?

24:35The petrol comes in, that's the glucose,

24:38and the engine,

24:40okay, powers pistons,

24:42and the pistons then power an axle,

24:45>> Mhm.

24:45>> and the axle then powers wheels,

24:48and you go.

24:50>> Yeah.

24:50>> Okay? But, there are a lot of things

24:52that have to go right for all of those

24:54things to happen.

24:56Like, for instance,

24:58your energy they they the gasoline has

25:01to get into the engine in the first

25:03place. What if you have

25:05carbon deposits on your intake

25:06manifolds?

25:08And if you have a problem with any one

25:09of those steps,

25:11you're going to end up

25:13with a jalopy instead of a sports car.

25:16>> I mean, that's what we're seeing in the

25:17United States. Over 7 million Americans

25:19live with Alzheimer's, and this is

25:20expected to double to almost 13 million

25:24in the coming decades.

25:26>> Indeed.

25:27>> It

25:28>> Cuz we haven't solved the problem.

25:31>> That's the mechanism. What is What is

25:33the cause?

25:34>> Right. So, we know

25:37we know that

25:38the cause is environmental.

25:42Now,

25:43people say, "Oh, Alzheimer's is

25:45genetic."

25:47Garbage.

25:48There is a genetic component to

25:50Alzheimer's. I'm not arguing that. There

25:52is.

25:52Okay? This is thing called ApoE4.

25:55And if you have two copies of ApoE4

25:59on your genome,

26:01your risk for getting Alzheimer's is

26:03nine times the general population.

26:06That is absolutely true. I don't

26:08disagree with that.

26:10So, ApoE4 is not a good thing. I'm not

26:12arguing that. Once upon a time in, you

26:14know,

26:15evolution,

26:17having two copies of ApoE4 was good

26:19because it meant you got fat up to your

26:21brain pretty fast. But we don't need

26:24that right now. That's kind of a uh

26:26an old news kind of of issue. People who

26:30have double doses of ApoE4 are at higher

26:34risk. There is absolutely no question

26:36about that. But they can mitigate that

26:37risk if they change their diet.

26:40Okay? They can eat a very low-fat diet

26:44and and

26:46improve their risk down to the general

26:48population.

26:50Okay?

26:52Everything else in Alzheimer's

26:54is not genetic.

26:56By the way, that genetic component is

26:58only 5% of all Alzheimer's. So, that

27:01means 95%

27:03of Alzheimer's risk is environmental.

27:06Now, the question is what in the

27:07environment?

27:09Well,

27:11air pollution,

27:13ionizing radiation,

27:15microplastics.

27:17Okay?

27:18There's nothing you can do about any one

27:20of those three.

27:22That's baked into the cake.

27:25You can't do anything about those today.

27:28What other things? Uh sleep disordered

27:30breathing,

27:32medications,

27:35ultra-processed food.

27:38Okay, what about ultra-processed food?

27:42Fructose, my favorite, you know,

27:44hobbyhorse.

27:46You know, the sweet molecule in sugar.

27:48Low omega-3s.

27:51So, no, you know, fish, uh eggs,

27:55chicken.

27:56Uh lack of fiber,

27:59cuz fiber suppresses inflammation.

28:03Presence of emulsifiers.

28:06Okay? B vitamins, lack of B vitamins,

28:10particularly B6, B12, folate.

28:14Okay? Those things are all associated

28:18with an increase in reactive oxygen

28:20species.

28:23You can manage those. You can mitigate

28:25those.

28:27Thereby increasing mitochondrial

28:29function, increasing ATP generation, and

28:33preventing that cellular energy crisis,

28:36so that you don't end up

28:38behind the eight ball and you don't lose

28:40your neurons.

28:42>> When people

28:42tell me that Alzheimer's is associated

28:45with having a sort of energy crisis in

28:47the brain.

28:47>> Mhm.

28:48>> I'm increasingly hearing people talk

28:50about ketones. It's just It's remarkable

28:53the

28:54improvement in cognitive performance

28:56that I feel when I'm fasted or I'm in a

28:58ketogenic diet. Whereas if I'm in a if

29:01I've been eating a lot of uh

29:03carbohydrates

29:04>> Mhm.

29:04>> or sugar,

29:05it's like my brain is like

29:07like backfiring. Yeah, it's stumbling

29:10over itself.

29:11>> I'm not surprised.

29:14Yeah.

29:15The The food industry tells you, "Well,

29:16carbohydrates are energy."

29:18Actually, that's not true.

29:20Carbohydrates inhibit energy production.

29:23>> How do you mean?

29:24>> So,

29:25there's this thing called a bomb

29:26calorimeter,

29:28and there's this thing called a

29:29mitochondria.

29:30>> Mhm.

29:31>> They are not the same.

29:32A bomb calorimeter,

29:34you throw food into the bomb

29:36calorimeter, it explodes and it gives

29:38off heat.

29:40And this, you know, captures the heat,

29:42measures the heat.

29:43And that's how we know, for instance,

29:45fat burns at 9 calories per gram,

29:48protein burns at 4 calories per gram,

29:50carbohydrate burns at 4 calories per

29:52gram, which is why fat is more energy

29:55dense than protein or carbohydrate,

29:58which is how we all determined that fat

30:00made you fat.

30:01>> And the bomb calorimeter is also how

30:02they determine if a bag of crisps or

30:04chips, whatever you call it here, is 200

30:07calories, because if you put them in

30:08there,

30:08>> Exactly.

30:09>> it will release 200 calories of energy.

30:11>> Right. Cuz a calorie is that amount of

30:15energy that raises 1 g of water 1 degree

30:17centigrade.

30:18>> Okay.

30:19>> So, it is a measure of physics.

30:20>> Okay.

30:20>> It's a measure of heat generation.

30:22>> Okay.

30:22>> Okay?

30:23Mitochondria are not bomb calorimeters.

30:27They are not capturing heat. They are

30:29giving off heat. They are capturing ATP.

30:33No bomb calorimeter captures ATP.

30:37Mitochondria capture and generate ATP.

30:40>> Mhm.

30:41>> Now, turns out 35 to 40% of what

30:44mitochondria generate turns out to be

30:46heat.

30:47That's why you have a body temperature.

30:50It's from that. And so, you have never

30:53you will never have a 100% energy

30:55efficient mitochondrion cuz if you did,

30:58okay, you would have a temp body

31:01temperature of, you know, room

31:03temperature, okay, and you'd be dead.

31:05That's not the way it works.

31:07Bottom line.

31:10That

31:11transfer of food energy to chemical

31:13energy

31:14loses energy in the process.

31:17Okay?

31:18The bomb calorimeter can't tell the

31:20difference, but your mitochondria can.

31:23Ultimately,

31:25it's how efficient are your mitochondria

31:28at converting food energy to ATP.

31:31The bomb calorimeter can't tell you

31:33anything about that.

31:35So,

31:37these two phenomena, you know, the

31:39concept of calories as fuel and the

31:42concept of calories as generators of ATP

31:46have really very little to do with each

31:48other. And it turns out that there are

31:50individual things in food,

31:53the famous one is fructose, but there

31:54are others, lectins and others, that

31:56actually inhibit

31:58the mitochondrial generation of ATP.

32:01So, they actually inhibit your ability

32:03to turn food energy into chemical

32:05energy.

32:06If that's the case,

32:08even if they have calories to program in

32:10a bomb calorimeter, if they're

32:12interfering with mitochondrial function,

32:16are they food?

32:19What is the definition of food?

32:21Substrate that contributes either to

32:23growth or burning of an organism. Well,

32:24I just told you, fructose actually

32:26inhibits

32:28burning.

32:29Turns out, fructose also inhibits

32:31growth. It inhibits cortical bone

32:33growth, trabecular bone growth,

32:34cancellous bone growth.

32:36Bottom line.

32:37People who eat ultra-processed food end

32:39up shorter.

32:42We have the data for that.

32:44So, if a substrate that passes your lips

32:48does not contribute to growth and does

32:50not contribute to burning,

32:52is it a food?

32:55>> I guess not.

32:56>> I guess not.

32:56>> What is it then?

32:57>> It's a poison.

33:00>> And how much of our diet do you think is

33:01poison?

33:02>> Fair amount.

33:04Ultra-processed food is loaded with

33:06them.

33:07Real food is not loaded with them. Now,

33:10you can still find them, but not loaded

33:12with them. Ultra-processed food has, in

33:15my opinion,

33:16okay, five things wrong with it.

33:20Too much sugar,

33:22which poisons your mitochondria. Not

33:24enough fiber,

33:25which is necessary to suppress

33:26inflammation.

33:29Not enough omega-3 fatty acids, which

33:31are necessary to build your brain and

33:33conduct neurotransmission.

33:35Too many emulsifiers, which leads to gut

33:38inflammation and therefore systemic

33:40inflammation.

33:41And then we can throw on top of that the

33:43food dyes and food additives, which are

33:45mutagenic because they're, you know,

33:47petroleum-based.

33:49That's ultra-processed food.

33:51Ultra-processed food has been associated

33:53with every single one of these diseases,

33:55including every single mental health

33:57disease, especially dementia. As we now

34:01have seen, ultra-processed food is

34:03specifically associated with dementia.

34:05And even diet sweeteners are associated

34:08with dementia through this reactive

34:10oxygen species pathway.

34:12>> The sugar industry can't be your biggest

34:14fan.

34:15>> They're not.

34:17I'm trying to help them, though.

34:19You know, I am trying to help them. Last

34:22year,

34:23um not too long after we had our uh

34:26previous uh

34:27session,

34:28uh I was the uh keynote speaker

34:32at the fourth international sugar

34:34reduction summit in Atlanta, Georgia.

34:37You know, Daniel in the lion's den.

34:40And you know, like why would they invite

34:43me? I am, you know, I'm their

34:45conscience. I said I told them I I said,

34:47"I don't want to be your enemy. I want

34:48to be your conscience. I want you to do

34:50the right thing."

34:52Okay? Ultimately,

34:53look,

34:55ultra-processed food's not going away.

34:57As much as I would like it to, it's not

34:58going to go away. And I'm not even sure

35:00we want it to go away cuz we got to feed

35:0210 billion people by the year 2050, and

35:04we're not going to have enough land and

35:05ocean to do it.

35:07Ultimately, ultra-processed food

35:10is here to stay.

35:13It is baked into the cake.

35:16But,

35:19the question is, can we make

35:21ultra-processed food healthy?

35:25Right now, they're not.

35:27Right now,

35:29what's going on in the US, you know,

35:32food industry is doing the exact

35:34opposite. It's making food disastrously

35:38disease-producing.

35:40The question is, could you change that?

35:43And the answer is, yes, you can.

35:45In fact, we've done it. We have been

35:47doing it.

35:48Um 5 years ago, I started working with

35:52an offshore food company, gratis, by the

35:56way, no money changed hands.

35:58And so, they came to me and they said,

35:59"Look, we know we're part of the

36:01problem. We want to be part of the

36:02solution.

36:04We know that Kuwait has an 18% diabetes

36:06rate and an 80% obesity rate, and we

36:09don't want to be the reason. We want to

36:10be the help.

36:12Can you help us

36:15figure out

36:17how to make metabolically healthy

36:20processed food?"

36:23So, I convened a

36:24uh a advisory team of five members

36:28and we worked for the next 3 years

36:31looked at every single

36:33process, every procedure, every vendor,

36:37every ingredient, every product, sent

36:40them all for biochemical analysis

36:43to figure out what's going into the

36:45food, what's coming out of the food, is

36:47the food metabolically healthy, what has

36:49to be done, how does it need to be

36:51re-engineered

36:53to lead to something that is

36:56metabolically healthy.

36:58And we came up with a set of principles

37:00which we published in Frontiers in

37:02Nutrition in 2023 and we call it the

37:05metabolic matrix and we basically

37:08collapsed it down to nine words.

37:11Three clauses, nine words. Protect the

37:13liver feed the gut support the brain.

37:18That's it.

37:19Those three things. Any

37:21thing that passes your lips that

37:23protects the liver, feeds the gut,

37:25supports the brain

37:26is healthy.

37:28Whether it's ultra-processed or not.

37:30Anything that passes your lips that does

37:33none of the three

37:35is poison.

37:36Whether it's ultra-processed or not.

37:39So it's actually not the

37:40ultra-processing

37:41it's whether or not it contributes to

37:44metabolic health.

37:47So then we started re-engineering

37:49products

37:50on in the KDD line and they have 180

37:54items in their portfolio. We have

37:56re-engineered

37:5710% of them, 18 products

38:00to become metabolically healthy and we

38:02have tested them on people in Kuwait

38:05to demonstrate their metabolic benefit.

38:08And they are on the shelves now.

38:10>> But isn't there a Is there a trade-off

38:11there because those products might sell

38:14worse now that they have you've removed

38:16the the stuff that makes them addictive?

38:18>> No.

38:20So we didn't tell the public

38:22that we were doing this.

38:24We just did it.

38:25And they just re- they just introduced

38:27them to the public

38:29and didn't tell them.

38:31And they didn't miss a freaking beat in

38:34terms of sales

38:36and in terms of profits.

38:38But I mean, tell them

38:40and it works.

38:41>> Logically though, it it the

38:43the bad stuff often makes the food more

38:46addictive.

38:48>> And that's why this is so cool.

38:51It didn't change consumption and it

38:54didn't change

38:56profits.

38:58And that's what they care about.

38:59Ultimately, they don't care if

39:00consumption changes as long as profits

39:02don't.

39:04This can be done by other

39:06food industries.

39:08We're trying to get them on board. And,

39:12you know, I have lots to say about RFK,

39:15but he has at least uh

39:19uh convened a discussion on what's wrong

39:22with ultra-processed food, and we're

39:23hoping to be able to enter that uh

39:27enter that conversation.

39:28>> RFK's the health leader, I guess. The

39:32head

39:32>> of head of health and human services

39:34here in the United States.

39:35>> You have a lot to say about him.

39:37>> I have boatloads to say about him, most

39:39of which uh you can't print.

39:43>> What's what's your general opinion?

39:45Of of him and his role and what he's

39:47doing, etc.

39:49>> I've been asked to serve in this

39:50administration four times.

39:53And I've said no each time.

39:55And it's not because I don't want to be,

39:57I do.

39:58But it's because my opinion and his

40:01opinion would basically get me thrown

40:02out after about 5 seconds.

40:04>> What's the difference?

40:05>> I wouldn't last a

40:07I wouldn't last a second.

40:08>> What's the difference in opinion?

40:11>> All right. Fi- RFK has five buckets in

40:14his portfolio.

40:17Food, I'm on board.

40:20Pharma transparency,

40:22I'm on board.

40:24Chemicals in the environment,

40:27I'm on board.

40:29Water fluoridation,

40:32I'm partially on board.

40:34You could get the fluoride out of the

40:35water, but first you got to get the

40:36sugar out of the food.

40:38You can't just take the fluoride out of

40:40the water or everybody will get Mountain

40:41Dew mouth all at the same time. And that

40:43would be a complete and utter disaster.

40:45Has to be done in a coordinated public

40:48health PSA driven campaign with everyone

40:53on board, including the food industry

40:54and the medical profession and

40:57government.

40:57>> And to explain that, there's fluoride in

40:59the water in the United States because

41:00there's so much sugar.

41:02>> There's so much sugar in the food. You

41:03wouldn't need uh fluoride in the water

41:06if you didn't have sugar in the food.

41:08>> Just explain this. So, the the United

41:09States put fluoride in the water

41:11>> to stop dental caries.

41:14>> Which protects people's teeth.

41:15>> Which protects people's teeth.

41:17The point is that only half the

41:19countries in the world have fluoride in

41:21the water.

41:22The others don't. And the reason is cuz

41:24they don't have sugar in the food.

41:26The only reason you need to put the

41:27fluoride in the water is because the

41:29sugar in the food causes the dental

41:31caries.

41:32Now, the fluoride reduces the uh

41:36uh prevalence of dental caries by about

41:3930 to 40%.

41:40>> Dental caries.

41:41>> Cavities.

41:42>> Cavities, mm.

41:43>> By about 30 to 40%.

41:46Now,

41:47the problem with fluoride is at high

41:50dose,

41:52it can be a neurotoxin.

41:55Now, the goal is for

41:57uh public fluoridation to stay way below

41:59that.

42:01Now, do they?

42:03Not really.

42:05Sometimes they go above.

42:06So, normal fluoride concentrations when

42:09you're doing it as a uh you know, public

42:12health effort should be between .3 and

42:15.9 parts per million.

42:17Sometimes it goes up to 1.5 parts per

42:19million and at 1.5

42:21it becomes a neurotoxin.

42:24So, it's a purely dose issue.

42:26But, one of the reasons why people are

42:28screaming about getting fluoride out of

42:30the water is because it can be a

42:31neurotoxin. It's not supposed to be in

42:34doses that are appropriate.

42:37But, you know,

42:40people don't look at the data.

42:42Point is you could get the fluoride out

42:44of the water.

42:45But, if you got the fluoride out of the

42:47water and didn't take the sugar out of

42:48the food,

42:50you know, we'd have more dental carries,

42:52we'd have more anesthesias, we'd have

42:53more teeth pulling, we'd have more

42:56sepsis, we'd have more dental abscesses,

42:59we'd have more soldiers dying in the

43:00field. It's a matter of national

43:02security. So, you can't just do it. It

43:05requires a, you know, coordinated

43:09uh

43:10uh effort.

43:11>> Is there anything else you disagree with

43:12him on?

43:12>> And then finally, bucket number five,

43:15vaccines.

43:17I am a pediatrician.

43:19I am not a vaccine expert to be sure. I

43:21am not an immunologist to be sure.

43:24But, I am a pediatrician and I know a

43:26lot about vaccines and I know a lot

43:27about the infectious diseases that those

43:30vaccines were set up to basically

43:33prevent.

43:35And I have taken care of all eight

43:38of the diseases that we have childhood

43:40immunizations for, mumps, measles,

43:42rubella, diphtheria, pertussis, tetanus,

43:45H flu, polio. I've taken care of all

43:48eight of those and I will tell you right

43:49now,

43:51when I take care of those,

43:53it's because of someone who didn't get

43:54vaccinated. And when I take care of

43:56those,

43:57okay, the chances are 90% that that

43:59kid's going to die.

44:02RFK has not.

44:04RFK says he can tell whether someone has

44:07mitochondrial function dysfunction just

44:10by looking at them.

44:11I'm a mitochondrialist.

44:14I can't.

44:18Ultimately, RFK's view of vaccines is um

44:23shall we say his and his alone.

44:27And it's not shared by the medical

44:29community.

44:30Um and I will not be part and parcel to

44:333,000 measles deaths

44:36because of

44:38a

44:39a blanket uh

44:41disdain for uh vaccines and vaccine

44:43technology, which has worked beautifully

44:46to save 154 million people on this earth

44:50over the last 50 years.

44:53>> Yeah, you know, I didn't I didn't talk

44:54about this stuff a lot. Um but

44:58I was

45:01I'm pretty sure at least one of my

45:03siblings was saved by vaccination when

45:05we were in Africa and we had uh malaria.

45:09I think if I'm if I'm if I'm accurate

45:11here, I had malaria, my brothers had

45:13malaria, and I think I was the one that

45:16didn't get the malaria vaccine, and then

45:18I ended up in hospital at a as a at a

45:20very young age with with malaria. I was

45:22like hallucinating and stuff like that.

45:24Um

45:25and obviously as a as someone that was

45:27born in Africa,

45:29I I think you probably have a clearer

45:31understanding of the role that vaccines

45:34can play in in good health.

45:37You know, it's it's it's um it's quite

45:39concerning because when you when you

45:41speak to any scientist like all of the

45:43majority of the leading scientists,

45:44they're very

45:46extremely pro pro-vaccine.

45:49>> But we we've seen both sides. We've seen

45:51what happens when there's no vaccine,

45:53and we've seen what happens when there

45:54is vaccine.

45:55>> And this is not to say that there can be

45:58side effects to vaccines. Um the vaccine

46:01manufacturers and scientists talk about

46:02those side effects as well, but the the

46:04thing that I think people should focus

46:05on is the net um, good that vaccines

46:08have done

46:10for for the last centuries in

46:12eradicating illnesses and avoiding um,

46:14disease.

46:16And my concern, just to close off on

46:18this point is, my concern is if there is

46:20to be some kind of outbreak

46:24anytime soon,

46:25we're in such a cloud of misinformation

46:28around vaccines that I I worry people

46:31might make the wrong decisions.

46:32Interestingly, there was a measles

46:34outbreak in Texas recently and RFK at

46:36one point did eventually prompt the

46:38federal deployment of mmr mmr vaccines

46:42and expressed support for them um,

46:45because there was a a big outbreak of

46:46measles in in Texas very recently.

46:49>> I'm going to tell you something now that

46:51I have not talked about in public.

46:54I had uh, a half an hour with RFK on the

46:57phone, one-on-one,

46:59back in December of 2024,

47:02after the Trump uh, election and RFK was

47:07starting to convene his uh, team.

47:10And I was asked to join it.

47:12And so I got a half hour with him. And I

47:14will relate to you now

47:17for your public so that they understand

47:20what that conversation entailed.

47:24Basically, two threads.

47:26By the way, we're supposed to talk about

47:28food.

47:29We didn't talk about food. We talked

47:30about vaccines. And here are the two

47:32threads. First thread,

47:35there are three

47:37papers in the medical literature

47:40that say that vaccines do more harm than

47:42good.

47:44And he quoted them at me.

47:46And I wrote them down.

47:48And I went and looked them up

47:49afterwards. And indeed they say what he

47:51says they said.

47:54That it's unconscionable that

47:57vaccines do more harm than good and

47:59we're giving them to

48:01newborns.

48:04Now, it is true that those three papers

48:06do say this. There are 50,000 that say

48:09opposite.

48:10Okay?

48:11Second thing he said,

48:13a woman gives birth to a healthy baby.

48:17That healthy baby gets a shot under the

48:20skin and now that baby is not healthy

48:23anymore.

48:25That's a tort.

48:27A legal tort.

48:29Okay? And you know, in fact, you could

48:32argue that that is a in fact a legal

48:34tort because you know, duty,

48:37dil- you know, uh negligence, you know,

48:39all the way down to damages.

48:41Okay? What's the recommend- what's the

48:43uh the remedy for tort? I said lawsuit.

48:45He says, right.

48:47But, that mom can't sue because of the

48:50Vaccine Indemnification Act of 1986.

48:53So, that mom

48:55basically has a damaged baby and no

48:58recourse. That's unconstitutional.

49:03Those were the two threads of our

49:05half-hour discussion.

49:08Now,

49:11everything he said is absolutely true.

49:14And irrelevant.

49:19They demonstrate

49:21basically confirmation bias.

49:24And

49:25he's a lawyer. He believes in precedent.

49:28I'm a doctor.

49:29I believe in probability.

49:32There's always a risk-benefit ratio.

49:34Unless you're a lawyer, in which case

49:35there's only risk.

49:37And that's how he sees

49:39the world. He sees the world as risk.

49:43I don't.

49:44I wouldn't have lasted 5 seconds.

49:47>> I think we both

49:49on the same page in terms of making sure

49:50people have

49:52the right information as it relates to

49:54probability.

49:55We, you know, everything we do in our

49:56life is a factor of probability. Whether

49:58it what I I got in a taxi to come here

49:59this morning. I I understood the

50:02probability of that taxi crashing into

50:03another car, but I decided to get in the

50:05car and come here anyway.

50:06>> We all deal with these,

50:09you know, risks

50:11every single day.

50:12>> I want to say on this on this point of

50:16of vaccines that um there's obviously

50:18it's almost but it's become quite a

50:19political issue and there's two there's

50:21two sides and, you know, one side

50:24which is more of the RFK side is

50:26incredibly skeptical. Um

50:29and

50:31and they have their opinion. Then

50:32there's the other side which tends to be

50:34dominated more by the science

50:35scientists. If I interview scientists a

50:37lot, so I know that pretty much everyone

50:39I've interviewed that's a scientist

50:40would agree that um

50:42you know, there's there are side

50:43effects, but net net vaccines

50:47are very positive.

50:48>> It it it depends on how you look at it.

50:51Okay? If you look at it a

50:53through a public health lens,

50:55>> Mhm.

50:56>> Okay? The vaccines do more good than

50:59harm.

51:00>> And

51:00>> And if you look at it from a purely

51:03individual lens,

51:06then you say, "Wait a second.

51:08I didn't get the disease, but I got the

51:11shot and I have a vaccine injury.

51:15Therefore,

51:17I have been subjected to a tort."

51:19>> So, I would just like to close this

51:20section by telling people that if there

51:22is a health crisis in the near future,

51:24some kind of viral outbreak like we saw

51:26with the pandemic,

51:27to make sure you get your information

51:29from sources that are highly credible.

51:32And those sources should not include

51:35um they should not include frankly, they

51:38should not include podcasts.

51:40>> No, they shouldn't.

51:40>> They should not include social media.

51:43They should in they should include

51:44places like I'd recommend checking out a

51:46website called Consensus. I have no

51:48affiliation with them, but Consensus

51:50allows you to type in a question you

51:52have about health, vaccines, whatever it

51:54might be, and it shows you what the sort

51:58of peer-reviewed studies say,

52:00and what the consensus is. So, for

52:02example, I was I was using the website a

52:04couple of days ago to try and understand

52:05something. I typed in, "Does this

52:07particular Is this particular thing

52:09healthy or unhealthy?" And it comes up

52:11with this bar that the team will show on

52:12the screen, and it shows you how much of

52:14the scientific research supports that

52:17idea. So, it said like 70% of the

52:18scientific research says it was

52:19positive, it said 25% said it was

52:22neutral, and 5% said

52:24we kind of don't know, or or negative.

52:27And I think that's a really great tool

52:29because there's so much information out

52:31there, and there's so many studies, and

52:32there's one study that says this, and

52:33another that says this. So, using tools

52:35like that, I think is a much better way

52:37to make your health decisions than

52:38podcasts like this, or

52:40um

52:41TikToks, or Instagrams, or tweets.

52:44Because another thing I want to say is

52:46you might not know this, and I'm just

52:47speaking directly to my audience here,

52:49but you're currently in an algorithmic

52:51echo chamber. And if you And if you want

52:53to know what I mean by that is the

52:54algorithm that you have on any of your

52:56feeds has been personalized to give you

52:59more of the stuff that either scares

53:01you, frightens you, concerns you, etc.

53:04And if you If you want to prove this, go

53:05and ask your best friend, or someone

53:07else, a member of the public to look at

53:09their feed. I had really

53:11I remember probably 2 years ago I asked

53:13my best friend if I could just look at

53:14his Twitter feed,

53:16and it was

53:17completely different from mine. For one,

53:19there was no Manchester United, and it

53:20was all Liverpool. But then all of the

53:22information was completely different as

53:24well. And so, we're living in these echo

53:26chambers where misinformation, or you

53:28know, things we believe is being

53:29reinforced positively or negatively. So,

53:31you need a strategy for information,

53:33especially as it relates to health.

53:34>> I couldn't agree more. The fact of the

53:36matter is

53:37these algorithms are designed

53:41to keep you engaged. They are not

53:43designed to keep you informed.

53:45>> Mhm.

53:45>> It's just that simple.

53:47Um the other problem, of course, is

53:49confirmation bias. If you have

53:51confirmation bias, you will only seek

53:53out the information that reconfirms your

53:56bias.

53:56>> And that's what's about to happen in

53:57>> that's what we didn't used to have, but

53:59that's what we have now.

54:01>> That's what's about to play out in the

54:02comment section whenever we talk about

54:03subjects like like vaccines is

54:05um there'll be a group of people who

54:07have their own opinions on it, and

54:09you're going to filter your own opinion,

54:11and they will go at war to confirm and

54:13prove that opinion, and there'll be

54:14another group of people that have a

54:15different opinion, and they'll go at war

54:16to confirm that opinion. What I what I

54:18love

54:20and hopefully what I think my audience

54:22understand me for

54:23is

54:25I try and

54:26I try and remain open

54:29minded.

54:30And that's like a really hard

54:32thing to do these days.

54:33>> do. Yeah.

54:34>> I saw a journalist the other day, they

54:35said they were trying to place me

54:36politically, and they said, "We think

54:38Steven is a political."

54:40And I think that's probably an apt

54:41description of my opinions because I

54:43have

54:43>> I would consider that a high compliment.

54:45>> It's an amazing compliment. I have

54:46views, but I don't sign up to any

54:49particular

54:52like cult. That's where I'd describe it.

54:55And and you know you're in a cult when

54:57your views 99% represent the person

55:01who's also in the cult because logically

55:03that should never be the case.

55:04>> That should never be the case.

55:06I agree. Um you know, cults are part and

55:09parcel of society, unfortunately.

55:12>> I've watched so many entrepreneurs treat

55:14sales like a performance problem when

55:16it's often down to visibility because

55:18when you can't see what's happening in

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55:23what's moving, you can't improve

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56:14I want to get really practical, tactical

56:15here with the person that's listening

56:17right now,

56:18and they have me and you in their ears,

56:20and they know

56:23that sugar is bad. They know

56:24ultra-processed food is bad.

56:27They still are struggling with a little

56:31bit of fat, other sort of diseases.

56:33They're probably on that in on the

56:34trajectory to some form of chronic

56:36disease, maybe Alzheimer's, maybe

56:37dementia, maybe a form of cancer. What

56:40do we have If we're talking direct Let's

56:41name her

56:42or him.

56:43Let's call her Jenny.

56:45Jenny's listening right now. Jenny and

56:47Dave.

56:48They're both sat there. They're the

56:49average American.

56:52What do we say to Jenny and Dave to get

56:54them to

56:56change their lives?

56:57>> The first thing

56:59that you have to say to them

57:01is

57:02who are you?

57:05Do you know?

57:07Do you know who you are?

57:09Cuz if they don't know who they are,

57:12then nothing else is going to matter.

57:15They have to be comfortable in their own

57:16skin, and they're not.

57:19The reason that they have glommed on to

57:22ultra-processed food is it's providing

57:24them

57:25with a dopamine hit.

57:28And it's probably the only thing

57:32that even remotely gives them pleasure.

57:36And if that's all the pleasure they get

57:38in their lives,

57:41you're never going to fix it, cuz that's

57:42all they've got.

57:44So, the question is

57:47sorting your priorities.

57:50At at the at the individual level,

57:53what's important to you?

57:55What's of primary importance?

57:58Love,

57:59relationships.

58:01What's of secondary importance?

58:03Pleasure,

58:05food, drugs.

58:08Okay, if you don't have any of the love,

58:11relationships, stability

58:14in your life,

58:16there's no amount of food

58:18or drugs that's going to be able to make

58:20up for that.

58:23So, who are you? What is it that really

58:25matters to you?

58:27And until you answer that question

58:29honestly and affirmatively,

58:31you're never going to get past this.

58:33>> So, Ken, let me let me role-play as

58:35Jenny and Dave. You've asked me who am

58:37I.

58:38I am 30 years old and I work this job. I

58:42don't The job's okay. I don't love it.

58:44It's not lighting me up. I'm single.

58:46I'm living in this this city.

58:49And yeah, I'm just, you know,

58:51trundling along.

58:53Kind of like on the

58:55on the treadmill of life.

58:56>> And how much stress are you under?

58:58>> A lot of stress.

58:59>> A whole lot of stress.

59:00>> open my phone, it's just all my emails,

59:02my work, there's this thing going on

59:03with this person. I think my mom's got a

59:05problem with this thing, and her health

59:07is deteriorating.

59:09>> So, imagine what that's doing

59:11to the ATP in your brain.

59:14>> What's it doing?

59:15>> It's depleting it like crazy. Number

59:17one, you have mitochondrial dysfunction

59:19from all the you ate, and from the,

59:21you know, unfortunately from the

59:23air pollution you've been breathing, and

59:25from the microplastics, you know, that

59:27have basically taken over your brain.

59:291/200 of your brain right now, Stephen,

59:31is microplastics, whether you like it or

59:33not. So, Jenny and Dave probably have

59:35more.

59:36Okay? And you eat well, they don't.

59:38All right? So,

59:40here we are. This is This is the the

59:43substrate. This is the base.

59:45The question is, how are we going to

59:47improve their

59:49ATP generation? How are we going to

59:52improve their mitochondrial function?

59:53How are we going to get those their

59:55neurons to start responding properly?

59:59That's the question.

1:00:00>> And do you aim at stress as part of the

1:00:02solution?

1:00:04>> Yes, of course. You have to.

1:00:06How can you not?

1:00:08Let me give you another uh quick quick

1:00:10clinical vignette.

1:00:12Recently,

1:00:13I uh had the opportunity to have a an

1:00:17extended conversation with um a hero of

1:00:20mine,

1:00:21Dr. Vivek Murthy, who is the former

1:00:23Surgeon General of the United States.

1:00:26And we were in London together. And I

1:00:28finally sat him down and I said, "You

1:00:30know, Vivek, I love your

1:00:33you know, uh

1:00:34espousing of love that we ultimately

1:00:37need to love each other to get over

1:00:39these

1:00:41uh

1:00:41systemic societal travails that we that

1:00:45that love is what's missing."

1:00:47Here's the problem.

1:00:49You can't love if your brain is

1:00:50inflamed.

1:00:53>> You can't love if you can't love

1:00:56if your brain is inflamed.

1:01:00>> Of course, the reason for the inflamed

1:01:01brain is the

1:01:04ultra-processed food and all the things

1:01:06we talked about, the reactive oxygen

1:01:07species, the cortisol, etc., that we

1:01:09talked about before.

1:01:11>> So, you're saying people that are

1:01:12metabolically unhealthy, that are having

1:01:14inflamed brains, that are under stress,

1:01:17have a reduced ability to love?

1:01:19>> Yes.

1:01:20It's exactly what I'm saying.

1:01:23They can't love themselves and they

1:01:24can't love anyone around them.

1:01:26>> Explain the science there.

1:01:28>> Serotonin.

1:01:30>> What is serotonin?

1:01:31>> Serotonin is a neurotransmitter

1:01:34that is necessary for eudaimonia, for

1:01:37being able to be content.

1:01:39Oxytocin is the love neurotransmitter,

1:01:43the reproduction neurotransmitter, the

1:01:44safety neurotransmitter. Okay? The

1:01:47cortisol

1:01:49causes

1:01:50the methylation of the oxytocin

1:01:53receptor. So, now the oxytocin can't

1:01:55work, so you can't feel safe.

1:01:58And the serotonin is necessary to

1:02:02basically suppress that inflammation in

1:02:04the amygdala

1:02:06that's actually causing

1:02:08the

1:02:09buckshot that we, you know, the the

1:02:11inability to surgically strike like we

1:02:14talked about before, being that lousy

1:02:16point guard.

1:02:18So, I said to him, "You can't love if

1:02:21your brain is inflamed."

1:02:23And he thanked me and he

1:02:25you know, I thought that was the end of

1:02:26that and I'm not going to bother him

1:02:28anymore.

1:02:29Two weeks ago, I got an email from Vivek

1:02:32saying, "I've thought about what you

1:02:34said and I'm halfway through your book

1:02:36and let's talk."

1:02:38>> You can't love if your brain is

1:02:39inflamed. I was just looking at a study

1:02:41that says high cortisol levels in a mom

1:02:43during pregnancy can affect the baby's

1:02:45oxytocin receptors, meaning they'll feel

1:02:47less safe.

1:02:48>> Exactly right.

1:02:51And it's epigenetic happens even before

1:02:53birth.

1:02:56>> I'm trying to play out, so I'm trying to

1:02:57form a couple of hypotheses here around

1:02:59what this might mean in practice. So, I

1:03:02mean, in the case of the mother, if the

1:03:03mother was

1:03:05under a lot of stress

1:03:08that resulted in cortisol, then the

1:03:10baby's oxytocin receptors, which are the

1:03:12bonding chemical of of hum- within

1:03:15humans, the bonding hormone, is going to

1:03:16be depleted. So, if I had a really

1:03:18stressful

1:03:19mother during

1:03:21um

1:03:23my

1:03:23conception, whatever

1:03:25>> During pregnancy.

1:03:25>> During pregnancy, yeah.

1:03:27>> There's a probability

1:03:29There's a causal probability that I

1:03:30might be less good at bonding with

1:03:32people.

1:03:33>> There we are.

1:03:35That's exactly what we're saying.

1:03:37>> But I guess also that can take place

1:03:38after pregnancy, whereas if chronic

1:03:40stress

1:03:41>> a it's a continual process.

1:03:43The question is, can it be undone? And

1:03:45the answer is yes, but with

1:03:47a lot of work.

1:03:51And you have to have the baseline

1:03:52substrate

1:03:54to be able to do it.

1:03:55>> There's a bit of

1:03:57What's the What's the term when

1:03:59something becomes a little bit

1:04:00self-fulfilling where it kind of

1:04:02>> tautology

1:04:04>> What I'm saying is if someone's lonely,

1:04:06extremely lonely, and they are in a

1:04:08single apartment alone,

1:04:11which is increasingly a lot of people,

1:04:13>> Yes.

1:04:14>> then

1:04:15>> basements basements

1:04:16>> Yeah, well, you even even in major

1:04:18cities like London and New York, etc. So

1:04:19many people living in a little shoebox

1:04:21alone. Um and I saw the studies that

1:04:23show the average person used to have X

1:04:25amount of friends to turn to in a time

1:04:26of crisis. Now they have on average it's

1:04:28like one or zero. So, loneliness is up.

1:04:31And then I also saw some research that

1:04:32said when people are lonely, their body

1:04:34goes into

1:04:36a state where they sleep worse, they're

1:04:38more stressed, they're they're more

1:04:41bitter

1:04:42to people.

1:04:43>> Yes.

1:04:43>> And I can't remember the term for that,

1:04:45but it's like it's like this heightened

1:04:47sensitivity. And the thesis is that once

1:04:49upon a time in an evolutionary context,

1:04:51if you were if you lost your tribe, you

1:04:53would have to be more on edge to

1:04:55survive.

1:04:55>> That's your amygdala.

1:04:57>> And if that's the case then, it means

1:04:59that it would suggest that if you're

1:05:00lonely,

1:05:01you're higher stress. But if you're

1:05:03higher stress, you're more likely to be

1:05:04lonely.

1:05:05>> That's right.

1:05:06Which is That's the vicious cycle.

1:05:08>> A vicious cycle. That's the term I was

1:05:09looking for.

1:05:09>> That's the vicious cycle. Absolutely. I

1:05:11couldn't agree more.

1:05:12That's what we're trying to undo.

1:05:15So, here's a question for you. Quiz.

1:05:17>> Uh-huh.

1:05:17>> All right? And you know the answer.

1:05:19>> Okay.

1:05:19>> Okay? Cuz I've mentioned it already on

1:05:21this podcast.

1:05:22>> Uh-uh.

1:05:22>> All right? You ready?

1:05:23>> Yeah.

1:05:24>> What is the difference

1:05:26between loneliness and solitude?

1:05:30>> Loneliness is

1:05:33a lack of human connection, and solitude

1:05:36is being alone.

1:05:40>> Uh well, both have a lack of human

1:05:41connection.

1:05:43>> I don't know. Tell me the answer. What's

1:05:44the answer?

1:05:45>> Serotonin.

1:05:46>> Okay.

1:05:46>> If you're serotonin depleted, you're

1:05:48lonely.

1:05:49If you're serotonin replete, it's

1:05:51solitude.

1:05:52You're comfortable in your loneliness.

1:05:55You're happy that you're lonely.

1:05:58Cuz you're not really lonely, you're

1:05:59alone.

1:06:00>> And how does that happen that I become

1:06:01lonely and in terms of the serotonin

1:06:04mechanism?

1:06:05>> Well, you choose to be alone when you're

1:06:08in solitude. But the point is, that's

1:06:11what you um

1:06:13want. That's what you chose. You could

1:06:16be with other people. You've chosen to

1:06:18be in solitude.

1:06:20When you're lonely,

1:06:22okay, the reason even when people are

1:06:25coming at you, even when you're at a

1:06:26party,

1:06:28and you are clearly not lonely,

1:06:30you feel like you are.

1:06:32You feel like you're there all by

1:06:34yourself, even though all these people

1:06:36are around you.

1:06:38>> What is serotonin?

1:06:38>> That's And that's because you're

1:06:39serotonin depleted. Serotonin is a

1:06:41neurotransmitter. It's made from a amino

1:06:44acid called tryptophan. Tryptophan is

1:06:46the rarest amino acid in

1:06:49all of the proteins that we ingest. It's

1:06:52the rarest amino acid on the planet.

1:06:54It's found in eggs, chicken, fish, not

1:06:57exactly ultra-processed food. So, people

1:07:00who eat ultra-processed food at high

1:07:01rate are going to be tryptophan

1:07:03deficient, and therefore serotonin

1:07:06deficient, are going to be somewhat

1:07:08irritable and also somewhat lonely.

1:07:11And what it does is it inhibits the next

1:07:13neuron. It

1:07:16causes the next neuron not to fire.

1:07:19Instead of dopamine, which causes the

1:07:21next neuron to fire. They are very

1:07:23different. And serotonin, when it's at

1:07:26normal dose, gives you a feeling of

1:07:29contentment.

1:07:31Not necessarily happiness, but this

1:07:33feels good. I don't want or need any

1:07:37more.

1:07:38>> So, it's almost the opposite of

1:07:39dopamine.

1:07:40>> It's the exact opposite of dopamine.

1:07:42Dopamine is this feels good, I want

1:07:44more.

1:07:45And serotonin is this feels good, I

1:07:47don't want or need any more.

1:07:49>> And serotonin is predominantly made in

1:07:51the gut. 90%?

1:07:52>> So, 90% is made in the gut. The question

1:07:54is, does the gut serotonin get to the

1:07:56brain? And the answer is through the

1:07:58afferent vagus nerve. So, that afferent

1:08:00vagus

1:08:02has to be functional and it has to

1:08:03basically conduct information from the

1:08:06gut up to the brain in order to be able

1:08:08to transduce that. That is what we call

1:08:12intuition.

1:08:13That is called gut feeling.

1:08:15>> So, I need my vagus nerve to be healthy.

1:08:17>> Yes, so you Yes, you do. And there are a

1:08:19lot of things that are causing that

1:08:21vagus nerve not to be healthy, including

1:08:23all of the gut inflammation that we

1:08:25talked about from the ultra-processed

1:08:27food.

1:08:27>> So, how do I make my vagus nerve

1:08:28healthy?

1:08:29>> Eat real food.

1:08:31>> What about those vagus nerve stimulators

1:08:33that everyone's banging on about?

1:08:34>> So, the the they're interesting and they

1:08:38do have benefits for seizure control.

1:08:42Okay? For seizures, um the

1:08:45vagus nerve, uh for some reason,

1:08:47transduces information up and down that

1:08:50help mitigate seizures.

1:08:54No one's been able to demonstrate, to my

1:08:56knowledge, that you can use a vagal

1:08:59nerve stimulator to actually change

1:09:03emotion.

1:09:04>> I was looking at the research and it

1:09:06says exactly what you described that a

1:09:08meta-analysis and long-term follow-up

1:09:09show a 30 to 50%

1:09:12reduction in seizures for patients who

1:09:15use vagal nerve stimulation. But outside

1:09:16of that in terms of depression, the

1:09:18evidence is

1:09:20modest.

1:09:21>> Meager.

1:09:21>> Meager, yeah. Around 15 to 25% show

1:09:24which

1:09:26which is above placebo.

1:09:28So, it's small. And then with anxiety,

1:09:30it's the same. There's not

1:09:31There's only low-quality and small-scale

1:09:33work. They do say that implanted vagus

1:09:37nerve stimulators show the strongest

1:09:39evidence for epilepsy and depression.

1:09:40But the bottom line is

1:09:42it works well for seizures, as you said.

1:09:45And there's still a lot unproven as it

1:09:47relates to stress and focus.

1:09:50>> I wish they worked.

1:09:52>> I mean, it would be an easy You know,

1:09:53you know,

1:09:54one thing you learn from doing doing

1:09:55what I do

1:09:56with this podcast is you learn that in

1:09:59life

1:10:00there are really not many shortcuts. And

1:10:02everything that appears to be a

1:10:03shortcut, some device, some contraption

1:10:06that's going to fix things, actually

1:10:09either doesn't work, is a scam, or

1:10:12has some hidden trade-off.

1:10:14>> Right.

1:10:15>> And so, it goes back to this really

1:10:17important principle that I think

1:10:18everybody listening should embody, which

1:10:19is there's no free lunch in life. If it

1:10:23appears to be the the fast way, it's

1:10:24probably

1:10:25a fast way to something else. And the

1:10:27slow way is the fast way. The hard way

1:10:29is the fast way. This is kind of what

1:10:30I've learned. Like, I can try all these

1:10:32things to try and trick to try and not,

1:10:34you know, to try and be able to eat

1:10:36sugar but be healthy.

1:10:38And there's always some

1:10:39trade-off. Like, even Ozempic.

1:10:41>> Exactly.

1:10:42>> Everyone's talking about Ozempic.

1:10:43>> It's a band-aid, not a fix.

1:10:45>> What do you think of Ozempic?

1:10:47>> How much time you got?

1:10:49>> I don't know. Depends what you think.

1:10:51>> People ask me this all the time. Um I

1:10:53wear three hats.

1:10:55Okay? So, I'll put my first hat on, my

1:10:57clinician hat.

1:10:59I'm glad they're here.

1:11:01These GLP-1 analogs, they do work. I'm

1:11:03not saying they don't. They do.

1:11:05And God knows if you have a BMI of 40 to

1:11:0945 and you have tried everything else

1:11:12and nothing else works and it's a matter

1:11:14of life and death, then I am glad

1:11:16they're here.

1:11:18All right, now I'm put my second hat on.

1:11:20My scientist hat.

1:11:22Okay, why do they work?

1:11:24They work in two places. They work

1:11:26actually at that nucleus accumbens,

1:11:29which I mentioned before, the reward

1:11:30center. It actually seems to reduce

1:11:32reward. It's one of the reasons why

1:11:34GLP-1 analogs are not just being used

1:11:36for obesity, but for alcoholism, for

1:11:39drug addiction,

1:11:41for many things because they're

1:11:43basically putting that reward system to

1:11:45rest, which is a good thing.

1:11:48Now,

1:11:49we had a drug that did that back in

1:11:512006,

1:11:53put that reward system to rest. It was

1:11:55called rimonabant,

1:11:57uh trade name Acomplia.

1:11:59And

1:12:00what it was was an anti-

1:12:03endocannabinoid.

1:12:05It was an endocannabinoid receptor

1:12:07antagonist. It was the anti-marijuana

1:12:10drug. It was the anti-munchies

1:12:12drug. And so it caused weight loss.

1:12:15And it got released in the European

1:12:17Union, the EFSA approved it in 2006, and

1:12:21within 2 months of its hitting the

1:12:23market, there were 20 months suicides.

1:12:28Okay? And the reason is because if you

1:12:30suppress reward,

1:12:32ain't no reason to get out of bed in the

1:12:33morning.

1:12:35Okay?

1:12:36Now,

1:12:37the good news with these GLP-1 analogs

1:12:39is we've been looking for the suicide

1:12:41signal and haven't seen it. But, we also

1:12:45looking for the depression signal

1:12:47and we see that a lot.

1:12:49So, it does seem to be having the same

1:12:51effect, Maybe not as severe as Romana

1:12:53Ben, but nonetheless, that's a downside

1:12:56for sure. Okay. Now, the second place it

1:12:59works, GI tract.

1:13:01It delays gastric emptying. It slows

1:13:04food going through the alimentary canal,

1:13:07especially the stomach.

1:13:09Okay? That's why it works. Cuz you can't

1:13:12eat more if your stomach's still full,

1:13:14cuz it didn't move it along.

1:13:17Okay? That's good, sort of. Except it

1:13:20gives you all the side effects, the

1:13:22nausea, the vomiting, the pancreatitis,

1:13:25the gastroparesis.

1:13:27Stomach turns to stone. 3.4% of all

1:13:30people who take GLP-1 analogs get

1:13:33gastroparesis.

1:13:34And guess what? When you stop the med,

1:13:37the gastroparesis doesn't go away.

1:13:40And there is a lawsuit against Novo

1:13:41Nordisk right now over gastroparesis

1:13:44from GLP-1 analogs.

1:13:46Not so good.

1:13:48In addition,

1:13:51you lose weight. Okay, what kind of

1:13:53weight?

1:13:54Turns out half muscle, half fat.

1:13:56Now, losing fat's good. Losing muscle is

1:13:58not.

1:14:00Losing muscle

1:14:01is actually a risk factor for early

1:14:03demise. Sarcopenia is a risk factor for

1:14:06early demise. Now,

1:14:08what else causes loss of equal amounts

1:14:10of muscle and fat? Starvation.

1:14:12And that's how the damn medicines work.

1:14:15They're causing you to starve. Well,

1:14:17that's not the best way to do this.

1:14:20People,

1:14:21also,

1:14:23only 1/3 of people who take GLP-1

1:14:25analogs actually respond. 2/3 don't.

1:14:28They don't tell you about those. They're

1:14:29only telling you about the responders.

1:14:31And as soon as you stop taking it, all

1:14:33the weight comes rushing back plus some.

1:14:36Because you've only band-aided the

1:14:37problem, you haven't fixed the problem.

1:14:40Also, not such a great thing. And then

1:14:43finally, let me switch to my third hat,

1:14:46my public health advocate hat.

1:14:48Now, I did say these drugs work.

1:14:5116% mean weight loss. True.

1:14:55Okay?

1:14:55If everyone in America

1:14:58who qualified for a GLP-1 analog got it,

1:15:02that would be $2.1 trillion to the

1:15:05healthcare system,

1:15:06which is currently $4.1 trillion. So,

1:15:08that would be a 50% surcharge over what

1:15:10we're currently paying, and Medicare is

1:15:12going to go broke by the year 2029

1:15:14anyway,

1:15:16without it. So, you're going to put

1:15:17another 50% on top of that? How the hell

1:15:20are you going to pay for that? For a 16%

1:15:22weight loss? Conversely,

1:15:25if we just got added sugar

1:15:28out of the diet, out of the American

1:15:31diet,

1:15:32to the level of USDA guidelines of 12

1:15:35tsp of added sugar per day, no more,

1:15:39we could get a 29% weight loss

1:15:43and save $3.0 trillion.

1:15:45That's a $5.1 trillion swing

1:15:48for double the weight loss and no side

1:15:50effects.

1:15:51Which one do you think is better?

1:15:55>> Yeah.

1:15:56>> That's how I feel about it.

1:15:57>> There was um there was a recent animal

1:15:59research study that suggested that

1:16:01things like Ozempic semaglutides reduced

1:16:04cocaine self-administration

1:16:06in rats by roughly 30% during treatment

1:16:10and cut their drug-seeking behavior by

1:16:1262% after a period of abstinence.

1:16:15Which speaks to some of the things you

1:16:17were saying there about GLP-1s and

1:16:18Ozempic's role in the reward pathways in

1:16:20the brain.

1:16:21>> Yep.

1:16:22>> So,

1:16:23>> It's interesting.

1:16:23>> It's interesting.

1:16:24>> Very interesting.

1:16:25>> But what is that saying? It's saying

1:16:26that if you in these rats, if they were

1:16:27given these GLP-1 antagonists, these

1:16:30Ozempics, these semaglutides, they were

1:16:32less likely to be addicted

1:16:37to things.

1:16:38>> Yeah. I mean,

1:16:40>> To cocaine.

1:16:40>> say less likely to be They're already

1:16:42addicted. They're They're basically

1:16:44choosing not to continue to consume.

1:16:48>> And again

1:16:48>> We don't know if they're addicted,

1:16:49they're rats. But their behaviors

1:16:52suggest that they're reducing the

1:16:54consumption of the addictive substance.

1:16:57>> And what what is this suggesting? This

1:16:58means that

1:16:59the GLP-1 is doing what?

1:17:01>> Well, number one, maybe the reason that

1:17:03they're not consuming more is because

1:17:07their stomachs aren't moving.

1:17:10If your stomach's not moving, you don't

1:17:12want to take any more, do you?

1:17:13>> Maybe you do.

1:17:14>> Maybe it's that. We don't know. That's

1:17:16one possibility. Uh there are no There's

1:17:18no question that the nucleus accumbens

1:17:20has GLP-1 receptors. Ventral tegmental

1:17:23area has GLP-1 receptors. And I actually

1:17:25gave a talk at the um California Society

1:17:28of Addiction Medicine on Ozempic. So, we

1:17:30know what, you know, the the data show.

1:17:34We're still, you know,

1:17:35researching this and trying to

1:17:37investigate it, figure out what it is.

1:17:39You know, it That also wouldn't explain

1:17:41the alcohol story cuz alcohol's not um

1:17:43food. You know, it's a it's liquid. So,

1:17:46it's a you know, it's a little

1:17:47different. And it definitely reduces

1:17:49alcoholism uh

1:17:50alcohol consumption. So, there does seem

1:17:53to be an effect.

1:17:55>> Understanding what dopamine does from

1:17:56what you said earlier, it would appear

1:17:57that then these like GLP-1s, the

1:17:59Ozempics, are

1:18:01dampening dopamine's release in some way

1:18:03because the rats, when you talked about

1:18:05motivation um and dopamine, the rats are

1:18:07less motivated to go and get more

1:18:10cocaine. Right.

1:18:11Hm.

1:18:12>> And that very well may be a good thing.

1:18:14And for certain people, I think we can

1:18:17absolutely use that

1:18:19uh phenomenon to assist them.

1:18:21>> Is that Could that

1:18:22>> That will be a good way to help with

1:18:24drug interdiction.

1:18:25>> Could that also mean that I become less

1:18:26motivated, period?

1:18:27>> Yes.

1:18:27>> Ah, that's not good.

1:18:29>> Yes. Uh that's what I'm worried about.

1:18:32>> Going back to Jenny and Dave, Jenny and

1:18:34Dave both have a little bit of extra

1:18:35weight on them. We've talked about,

1:18:37really interestingly, the whole idea

1:18:38that serotonin, connection, love plays

1:18:41in a tremendous role,

1:18:43um, and stress.

1:18:45And so, Jenny and Dave now, they're

1:18:46going to be thinking about their

1:18:47relationships and friendships and going

1:18:50to that run club as a way to help them

1:18:53downstream with addictions and other

1:18:55things they're struggling with. Is there

1:18:57anything else that Jenny and Dave, who

1:18:59represent a typical American,

1:19:01need to know to maybe shed some of that

1:19:04body fat?

1:19:05>> Number one,

1:19:07ultra-processed food

1:19:10is obesogenic.

1:19:12Now,

1:19:14if Jenny and Dave are under stress, if

1:19:17Jenny and Dave are under financial

1:19:19stress, if Jenny and Dave are under time

1:19:22stress,

1:19:24it's going to be really hard for them to

1:19:26turn away from ultra-processed food.

1:19:30So,

1:19:31don't expect their weight to get any

1:19:33better

1:19:34>> No, no.

1:19:34>> until they fix their diet. The one thing

1:19:36I am very sure of is that if you keep

1:19:39eating the same

1:19:41don't expect anything good to happen.

1:19:43>> But it's hard.

1:19:44>> It's very hard. Some practical types of

1:19:46things. The first thing is that when

1:19:49they go to the store,

1:19:50>> Yeah.

1:19:51>> don't go hungry.

1:19:52>> Okay, love that. That's the first one.

1:19:54>> I make that mistake a lot.

1:19:55>> Right? The second thing

1:19:56>> Why? Let's give some context there.

1:19:58>> Oh, because if they're hungry, all bets

1:19:59are off. They're done.

1:20:01>> Because they're more likely to reach for

1:20:02the bad stuff.

1:20:03>> stuff.

1:20:04Cuz the bad stuff's calling to them.

1:20:07And by the way, the bad stuff's on the

1:20:08end caps of each other aisles of the

1:20:11grocery store.

1:20:12>> And in the middle?

1:20:13>> In the middle, oh, well, any If you've

1:20:15gone into the aisles, you've gone off

1:20:18the rails, because that's where the

1:20:20ultra-processed food is.

1:20:21>> So, shop around the outside, which is

1:20:22>> shop around the outside, which is where

1:20:24the real food is.

1:20:25>> The fridges and

1:20:26>> The fridges and the produce and the

1:20:29meats and the dairy.

1:20:32Okay?

1:20:32>> Mhm.

1:20:33>> Not to say that there isn't, you know,

1:20:35ultra-processed food and sugar hiding in

1:20:37those places, too, but if you've gone

1:20:40into the, you know,

1:20:42standard, you know, aisles,

1:20:45you know, that's where all the

1:20:46ultra-processed food is hiding. And, you

1:20:48know, 73% of the items in the American

1:20:51grocery store

1:20:52are poison.

1:20:55So, if you go into the grocery store,

1:20:57you already have a problem.

1:20:59>> So, the first one is don't go hungry.

1:21:00The second one is

1:21:02to stay

1:21:04>> Stay on the outside of the

1:21:06>> the aisle.

1:21:06>> supermarket.

1:21:07>> Yeah.

1:21:08Anything else for Jenny and Dave?

1:21:09>> And, most importantly, uh

1:21:12you know, I don't want them to have to

1:21:14read food labels because that's kind of,

1:21:16you know,

1:21:19Adam owns.

1:21:20Okay? But, they should basically, um if

1:21:23a food has a label,

1:21:25it's a warning label.

1:21:28That's how they should look at it.

1:21:30Okay? And if a And if any If any food

1:21:33has a sugar in the first three items,

1:21:37the first three ingredients, it's

1:21:39dessert.

1:21:41That's how they should look at it.

1:21:44So,

1:21:45you know, Chinese chicken salad

1:21:48is dessert.

1:21:49>> I don't you know, the other day I looked

1:21:50at my friend was drinking a can of um

1:21:53Coca-Cola.

1:21:55>> Mhm.

1:21:55>> And I picked it up, and I I thought,

1:21:56"Oh, you know, I've not seen one of

1:21:57these in a while." I looked at the the

1:21:59back of it, and it said the sugar

1:22:01quantity in it was something like 40% in

1:22:04that region.

1:22:06>> Yeah, so it's 39 g in a in a can, yeah.

1:22:09Yeah, that's right.

1:22:09>> I say So, 40% of it

1:22:12>> is sugar.

1:22:13>> is just sugar.

1:22:14>> Correct.

1:22:15>> And people are just

1:22:17>> There you go.

1:22:18>> No wonder.

1:22:19>> That's why we have a fatty liver disease

1:22:21pandemic.

1:22:23>> And sugar's sugar's fundamentally linked

1:22:25to things like cancer as well, right?

1:22:27>> Yes, absolutely.

1:22:29And we know why now. We know how, you

1:22:31know, through what mechanisms.

1:22:33>> What are the mechanisms?

1:22:34>> Uh for cancer?

1:22:35>> Yeah.

1:22:36>> Okay. So, first of all, ins- anything

1:22:37that makes insulin go up in- increases

1:22:39your risk for cancer cuz insulin's a

1:22:41growth factor.

1:22:42Okay? Secondly, because insulin causes

1:22:44mitochondrial dysfunction.

1:22:46Okay?

1:22:47It increases these other phenomena, like

1:22:50for instance, the pentose phosphate

1:22:52shunt and the um

1:22:54uh Randle cycle and the de novo

1:22:56lipogenesis, which is what cancer cells

1:22:58need to be able to multiply and divide.

1:23:02Okay? So, it's basically feeding the

1:23:03cancer.

1:23:05Number three, certain cancers,

1:23:07particularly pancreatic cancer, have an

1:23:09enzyme in them called transketolase.

1:23:12And what that can do is that can take

1:23:14fructose and turn it into glucose in the

1:23:16cancer cell only, so that when you're

1:23:18actually consuming sugar, you are

1:23:20feeding the cancer specifically. Yet,

1:23:23what what do we give cancer patients

1:23:25Ensure, which is like straight fructose.

1:23:28So, you are actually feeding the cancer.

1:23:31So, that that that's like ridiculous.

1:23:33Okay? In addition, because fructose

1:23:36interferes with mitochondrial function,

1:23:39okay? That sends a feedback mechanism to

1:23:43the rest of the cell to divide.

1:23:46Because

1:23:47dividing cells are in growth phase, they

1:23:49don't have mitochondria. That's why

1:23:51cancer cells don't have mitochondria.

1:23:53That's why fetal cells don't have

1:23:54mitochondria. Anaerobes don't have

1:23:56mitochondria. They grow the fastest.

1:23:59You know, provided that the conditions

1:24:02are right.

1:24:03So, bottom line, anything that

1:24:05interferes with mitochondrial function

1:24:06puts you at risk for cancer.

1:24:09>> And we're we seeing cancers growing?

1:24:11Is the incidence of people getting

1:24:13cancer is it that's growing?

1:24:15>> And people getting cancer earlier and

1:24:17earlier. Especially colorectal cancer.

1:24:19My god.

1:24:20Yeah, the mean age of colorectal cancer

1:24:23used to be 50 to 55.

1:24:26It is now we are seeing patients with,

1:24:29you know, colorectal cancer in their 30s

1:24:31and early 40s.

1:24:33This is why.

1:24:34>> Because of because of

1:24:35>> Because of sugar.

1:24:37That's a huge problem.

1:24:38>> It is a huge problem.

1:24:39>> So, that's what I would suggest Dave and

1:24:41Jenny do to start. Okay? But, ultimately

1:24:44they have to get their

1:24:46sugar and ultra-processed food

1:24:47consumption under control.

1:24:50And the question is can they do it

1:24:51alone?

1:24:52Chances are, to be honest with you, they

1:24:55probably can't.

1:24:57And the reason is because they're sugar

1:24:58addicted

1:24:59and because the food industry has

1:25:00basically made it impossible for them to

1:25:02avoid.

1:25:04That's what we have to fix.

1:25:06We have to allow them

1:25:08the capability of being able to access

1:25:10real food. This is why I'm so upset with

1:25:13what's going on with this

1:25:15argument here in the United States over

1:25:16SNAP. Are you familiar with SNAP?

1:25:18>> No.

1:25:19>> SNAP is the Supplemental Nutrition

1:25:21Assistance Program, SNAP.

1:25:24Also known as food stamps.

1:25:26Okay?

1:25:28I actually testified in front of

1:25:30Congress, in front of the House

1:25:32Appropriations Committee last year

1:25:34to

1:25:35fix SNAP.

1:25:38Now,

1:25:39to get soda off SNAP.

1:25:43Because soda is like the worst thing and

1:25:45it's also the thing that most people use

1:25:47their SNAP dollars,

1:25:49you know, their SNAP vouchers

1:25:52to to purchase.

1:25:54And it's killing people.

1:25:56And so, I don't think soda should be on

1:25:58SNAP. And so, what I did was I testified

1:26:01basically explaining the science, you

1:26:03know, in Congress,

1:26:04and I said that what we need to do is

1:26:06take the money

1:26:08that by banning soda sales on SNAP. If

1:26:11people want to spend their own money on

1:26:13soda, that's their business. But, we

1:26:15shouldn't be, you know, using a federal

1:26:17government subsidy program to subsidize

1:26:20their death.

1:26:22We should take the money that's saved

1:26:24from the soda sales and utilize it to

1:26:27improve the nutrition of those same

1:26:30people.

1:26:32You know,

1:26:33real vegetables, dietary supplements,

1:26:37fiber, water.

1:26:39Okay, things that will be healthy for

1:26:41them. In other words, divert the monies.

1:26:45They didn't hear that. The Republicans

1:26:47are trying to basically gut snap.

1:26:50They're trying to get rid of it as an

1:26:52entity entirely. And if they don't they

1:26:54can't gut it, they will basically make

1:26:57it so that they take the soda away,

1:27:00which is good, except it's not going to

1:27:03improve their the rest of their

1:27:04nutrition.

1:27:06Because they're basically just going to

1:27:08take that money and re-pocket it.

1:27:10So, how you, you know, set these

1:27:13legislation

1:27:16agenda items up is super important. And

1:27:19right now, this government's not doing

1:27:21it.

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1:28:12The the messages and emails that you get

1:28:13from people that have heard you on

1:28:15podcasts or have read your books or have

1:28:17seen your work in other places, what is

1:28:19the the typical question that those

1:28:21people ask? If you had to summarize the

1:28:23question

1:28:24into one question, what is it that

1:28:26people ask you the most?

1:28:29>> Uh

1:28:30is juice healthy?

1:28:33>> Really?

1:28:33>> Sure is.

1:28:35That's probably the most common

1:28:37question. You say, "Sugar's bad, but

1:28:39isn't juice healthy?"

1:28:40>> Is juice healthy?

1:28:41>> Juice is not healthy. Fruit is healthy.

1:28:44So, what's the difference between fruit

1:28:45and juice? The fiber.

1:28:48Okay, fruit has fiber. The fiber reduces

1:28:52the rate of absorption from the gut into

1:28:54the bloodstream.

1:28:55And in doing so,

1:28:57you reduce the insulin response, you

1:28:59reduce the glucose response, you

1:29:02basically protect the liver,

1:29:04and because you've

1:29:06prevented its early absorption, it goes

1:29:08further down the intestine, where the

1:29:10microbiome can chew it up for its own

1:29:12purposes, thus feeding the gut

1:29:15and generating short-chain fatty acids,

1:29:16which are therefore uh metabolically

1:29:19beneficial, anti-inflammatory,

1:29:20anti-Alzheimer's.

1:29:22Okay? And the fiber acts like little

1:29:24scrubbies on the inside of the colon to

1:29:26get rid of colon cancer cells. So, you

1:29:28get all sorts of benefits from the fiber

1:29:31in the fruit.

1:29:33But, as soon as you juice it, you've

1:29:34thrown the fiber in the garbage.

1:29:36And so, all you now have is sugar water.

1:29:39So, eat the fruit, don't drink the

1:29:41juice. Problem is,

1:29:43that's you know, what that's not what

1:29:45the food industry is selling.

1:29:47>> What if I put the fruit in a blender,

1:29:50and then instead of throwing out the

1:29:51gunk, I keep all the little bits in

1:29:53there?

1:29:54>> So, what happens is that the blades in

1:29:57the Breville or the Vitamix or the

1:29:59NutriBullet or you know, whatever you

1:30:00use to make your smoothie, those blades

1:30:03are shearing that fiber into

1:30:06smithereens, into such short pieces

1:30:10that it can't actually act as a lattice

1:30:13work to sequester and prevent that

1:30:15absorption. So, the rate of absorption

1:30:18in the intestine is just as fast, and so

1:30:21the fructose and the glucose will still

1:30:23get to the liver just as

1:30:25fast as it did before when it was juice.

1:30:28So, that's not the answer. So, uh making

1:30:31a smoothie out of it is not the answer.

1:30:33>> I was looking at the top comments from

1:30:35my last conversation, and they're all

1:30:37extremely

1:30:39I'd say similar, but they're they're all

1:30:41incredibly inspiring. Someone here has

1:30:43written the top comment, which um

1:30:45I shall pre-root I shall record the

1:30:46screen so Jack can throw it on the

1:30:47screen. It says, "Steven, I discovered

1:30:49Robert 3 years ago after my doctor told

1:30:52me I was pre-diabetic. 3 years on, my

1:30:54blood levels are completely normal, and

1:30:55everyone tells me how good I look

1:30:56recently. This man should be on every TV

1:30:59in the world, but the food industry is

1:31:01trying to shut him up. Follow the work,

1:31:03and

1:31:04you will your life like he changed mine.

1:31:07Stuart J, 59 years old, male, in the

1:31:10UK."

1:31:11>> That's very heartening. I'm glad to hear

1:31:12that.