The Behaviour Expert: Instantly Read Any Room & How To Hack Your Discipline! Chase Hughes

0:00so New Year's resolutions around the

0:01corner I think 9% of resolutions stick

0:03what advice have you got for me okay so

0:05let's say I wanted to lose weight the

0:06first thing is realizing that all of our

0:08lives are about habits not goals the

0:10second aspect of this is one of the most

0:12effective strategies to brainwash

0:14yourself to form these new habits and

0:16that is Chase Hughes is a former

0:17military veteran turned world-renowned

0:19expert in behavioral analysis and human

0:22influence he has trained Secret Service

0:24agents Navy SEAL leaders CEOs and

0:26government officials to master

0:28communication behavioral detection and

0:30persuasion you can look at three factors

0:32every single time to determine why

0:34someone was successful or why they

0:35failed the first is self-mastery where

0:37we look at confidence body language

0:39discipline and authority and we know

0:41that people are hyper responsive to

0:42Authority but how do we establish

0:44Authority ourselves Authority is made up

0:46of five things and that's number two is

0:49their level of observation and there's

0:51five C's that we talk about in Behavior

0:53profiling should we get into but my

0:55favorite example and one of the fastest

0:56ways to get a read on another human

0:58being is how often they're BL bling if I

1:00start seeing an increase in someone's

1:02blink rate I know I need to change the

1:03subject right away interesting and the

1:05third their level of communication and

1:07if you want to learn how to start a

1:08conversation or continue one this is for

1:10you it comes down to understanding the

1:13type of person that you are in front of

1:15now segregate people into six groups and

1:17that'll influence the best way to talk

1:18to those people so we can get into if

1:20you want please okay number one what

1:22about how to win an argument what are

1:24the things I should definitely not do so

1:26the big mistake most people make is

1:28don't do that

1:32this has always blown my mind a little

1:33bit 53% of you that listen to the show

1:36regularly haven't yet subscribe to the

1:38show so could I ask you for a favor

1:40before we start if you like the show and

1:41you like what we do here and you want to

1:43support us the free simple way that you

1:44can do just that is by hitting the

1:46Subscribe button and my commitment to

1:48you is if you do that then I'll do

1:49everything in my power me and my team to

1:51make sure that this show is better for

1:53you every single week we'll listen to

1:54your feedback we'll find the guest that

1:56you want me to speak to and we'll

1:58continue to do what we do thank you so

2:03much Chase Hughes who are you and what

2:06is your mission I'm a behavior guy

2:09Behavior expert and

2:13I think I've just set out to teach

2:16people that there is an entire world

2:20that other people can't really see don't

2:22have access to and I think for the last

2:2510,000 years of recorded history you can

2:27look at any event or any leader of any

2:29country and everything that dictates the

2:32outcomes of situations comes down to

2:34human factors every time no matter if

2:36there's economic turmoil there's people

2:38getting pissed off about an economy

2:40there's AI or technology innovations

2:42that are happening it everything comes

2:44down to human interactions and whether

2:47or not you can manage yourself you're a

2:49good leader who the good leaders are and

2:51who can persuade the people to feel a

2:53certain way and who'd you do it for I

2:56think I'd do it for people that have

2:59gone through a period in their life

3:00realizing that there's an invisible

3:02advantage that some other people have

3:04the people that got

3:05successful maybe have some kind of

3:08advantage that they're not able to to

3:12tangibly see and I think showing them

3:15that this is one of the biggest lovers

3:17that you could ever pull in your life is

3:19the most rewarding and fascinating thing

3:22to see someone go through this

3:23transition to realize that this human

3:26behavior stuff dictates outcomes in life

3:29when you say this you're referring to

3:31human behavior and is human behavior is

3:34it like a set of tactics is it like a

3:37form of psychology what is what is this

3:40when you say the word this when I say

3:42human behavior I mean that when a person

3:46becomes successful or they become a

3:49failure you can look at three factors

3:52every single time to determine why

3:54someone was successful or why they

3:55failed that is their level of

3:57self-mastery their level of observation

4:01like can they read the room can they

4:02read the person that they're actually

4:03talking to and their level of

4:06communication can they speak

4:07influentially can they talk

4:09about outcomes in a way that inspire

4:12people and motivate people and can they

4:14communicate in a persuasive way that

4:17moves people and who exactly have you

4:21worked with lots of government agencies

4:24uh notably I've worked with intelligence

4:27agencies I've worked with the

4:28psychological operations Department the

4:30US Army which is the Special Operations

4:32Command I've trained a lot of the US

4:34Navy leaders nowadays

4:38and a lot of civilians are my main base

4:42of clients right now what do

4:43intelligence what do you do for

4:44intelligence agents so when we talk to

4:48intelligence agents the number one thing

4:50that we train them in is recognizing

4:53human behavior and we also teach

4:55interrogation and we tend to teach like

4:57if I'm doing an interrogation it's kind

4:59of the same as if I'm uh an intelligence

5:02officer somewhere trying to talk

5:03somebody into spying on their own

5:05country for us both of those things are

5:08about talking someone into doing

5:09something that's not really in their

5:11best interest so when it comes down to

5:13that that's really where

5:16we get to the point the rubber meets the

5:18road can you talk someone into doing

5:20something that they a normally wouldn't

5:22do which is maybe sales because they

5:24normally they wouldn't have otherwise

5:25done that or B in the interrogation

5:28world can I talk you into something that

5:30you wouldn't want to do because it's not

5:33your best interest like confessing to a

5:34crime or providing intelligence or

5:36something like that and that's where we

5:38really do a lot of the training for

5:41police and government next to me there's

5:44this massive book called The behavior

5:46Ops manual it's probably the biggest

5:47book I've ever seen um what is the

5:50wealth of experience that have fed into

5:52this body of work that book right there

5:55is my entire life so probably 30 to

5:5840,000 hours of of research on this

6:01stuff every technique that I've ever

6:03learned or taught every method that

6:05we've ever used for interrogations or

6:08persuasion or influence all that stuff

6:10is inside of the behavior Ops manual and

6:13I wrote that book and we can get into

6:14that if you want to right now I received

6:17a brain diagnosis where I thought I was

6:20going to lose my brain and I was

6:23desperate I'm just wondering how's my

6:26family going to feed itself so I wanted

6:30to put every single piece of knowledge

6:31that I've ever created or I've ever come

6:33up with for any government agent

6:35everything all on the table and that's

6:38what this book was it's just the

6:39culmination of everything and you served

6:41in the military yourself I did for 20

6:43years what is the

6:45most common thing that people come to

6:48your work for like if you were to

6:49encapsulate it into like a sentence what

6:51they're searching for in their own

6:52personal lives it would be a person

6:56that is lacking some degree of control

6:59in some aspect of their

7:01life and it's typically they think they

7:04need skills most of my clients come to

7:07me saying I want the technique I want

7:08the skill teach me the the recipe to do

7:11X Y and Z what do I say on the phone

7:13give me a new sales script so I have

7:16this model called the acss model that I

7:18trained to my entire staff and that acss

7:21model stands for Authority

7:24Comfort social skills and then

7:27skills 90% of people say they need more

7:30skills but what they need is Authority

7:31or comfort and they can't be comfortable

7:34in a

7:35conversation so I could give you like I

7:38would talk to these clients and I would

7:39say I could spend $10 million write the

7:43best persuasion script for whatever your

7:45ideal outcome is hand you this thing on

7:48a silver platter and if you're not

7:50comfortable in that conversation you're

7:52not going to be successful so I could

7:54give it to somebody with social anxiety

7:56and have them go read this out loud it's

7:57not Harry Potter we're not reading

7:59spells it's not a spell so a lot of

8:03people's problems come from Comfort a

8:05lack of being able to be comfortable in

8:07in a conversation and the level of

8:10authority that they might have and I

8:11don't mean hierarchical Authority I just

8:13mean personal Authority but they don't

8:16know it they think it's I need more

8:18social skills I need to learn small talk

8:20or I need this little technique so every

8:22time the one thing I tell every client

8:25is if I give you a flight checklist

8:28right now for a a small plane Cessna

8:32172 are you a pilot no having this

8:35little checklist of what to do does not

8:38give you the skill so a lot of that so

8:40much of that comes from comfort and the

8:43problem that a lot of people have is

8:44they're competing with other people on

8:46height on looks on social status money

8:50hierarchy confidence all this other

8:51stuff the number one thing you need to

8:53compare yourself with other people on is

8:56Comfort that's it is can I be more

8:59comfortable than the other person in in

9:01this conversation because our brains are

9:03naturally wired to compete we can't turn

9:06competition off but we can change what

9:07they're focused on and if they're

9:09focused on Comfort we win a lot more

9:11conversations Comfort yeah how does that

9:14manifest is that just like being like

9:16physically comfortable what is that yeah

9:20it would be physical comfort so one of

9:23the challenges I give to people is for

9:25your first week all the only thing I

9:27want you to focus on I'm not going to

9:29give you the this long list to go look

9:30into your phone and have to read it

9:31before every meeting the one thing I

9:33want you to focus on this week is can

9:36you move

9:37slower than the other people in the room

9:40that's it just adjusting the speed limit

9:42on your body so if you were standing in

9:44a swimming pool how fast would your arms

9:47and legs move if you were underwater and

9:49make that the speed limit for this

9:50entire week that's all I want you to

9:52focus on and that makes so many changes

9:55in people's mind because we change our

9:57bodies and we change how our emotions

10:00are feeling and there's one thing that

10:02fear does it speeds our body up so if

10:05you see someone doing these rapid jerky

10:07movements you're you're seeing mostly

10:10fear or stress in their

10:12body so get more comfortable in an

10:15interaction conversation even if it's on

10:17the phone or in

10:19person yeah so on the phone it would be

10:21speaking at a normal composed Pace okay

10:26and then so step two is composure can I

10:29get you into a place where you have some

10:31composure and the left and right side of

10:33composure we have collapse and we have

10:37posturing so we I have a person that

10:39makes themselves small so other people

10:41can be comfortable or I make myself big

10:45so other people can get away from me and

10:49we have we see that with every aspect of

10:51our lives like when I first started my

10:53business or when I first got out of the

10:55military these people called me for a

10:56keynote so this guy calls me and he's

10:59like what's your hourly rate and I said

11:026K uh and I said that's including travel

11:04and all that and the only thing he did

11:05he didn't say anything on the phone he

11:07just

11:08goes that's it he just made that noise

11:11and right away I said oh yeah but we

11:13could do a discount I could probably do

11:14like 5K we could even take some off 50%

11:17I could even take 75% since you're here

11:19here and I have to do this it just made

11:21up excuses and I almost got to the point

11:23where I was like let me pay you I'll

11:26give you some money if you come let me

11:28speak on stage for you

11:29and that's collapse so that's I'm in

11:32collapse in some areas of my life I

11:34might posture in some areas of my life

11:36and our goal is to get out of that swing

11:39but the problem most people have if I'm

11:41living in collapse the solution looks

11:45like

11:46posturing and we see this in like guys

11:48that learn pickup like I'm going to

11:50learn how to posture because it's the

11:52opposite of what I'm doing it's not the

11:53center where I need to be and what is

11:56the center that's that's composure that

11:58would be composure and I would say

11:59composure is a combination of the things

12:02that make up authority and authority is

12:04made up of five things and that's

12:07confidence discipline leadership

12:09gratitude and enjoyment so I have an

12:13Authority inventory this is day one the

12:15first thing that I give to intelligence

12:17people or I've got a guy that owns a car

12:20dealership whoever the client is and

12:23it's the authority assessment it

12:24assesses you on those things and

12:27wherever your lowest point is that's

12:29what's keeping you from being successful

12:31in most conversations when you need to

12:33persuade somebody and it pinpoints it

12:36very quickly and if I could go into this

12:39a little further um the way that we live

12:42our lives off camera I'm sure you would

12:44agree you just had Vanessa van Edwards

12:46on uh it it bleeds out in our body

12:49language it bleeds out in not just body

12:51language but how we breathe how we talk

12:53how we come across so even if I read

12:57that article on LinkedIn of 19 ways to

12:59look more confident and it says well

13:01have better posture sit up straighter

13:03shake hands make better eye contact I

13:06did all of that and I look really

13:08presentable but back home I've got a 8ot

13:11pile of laundry sitting in the bedroom

13:14my bed's nasty I've got dishes all piled

13:16up in the sink there's a part of our

13:18brain that's somehow dedicated to

13:21reminding us I'm faking it right now and

13:24that comes across so whether we're doing

13:27it consciously or uncons consciously

13:29we're manufacturing gut feelings in

13:31other

13:32people so our job is to manufacture

13:35better gut feelings and the five most

13:38common ways that those bleed out in our

13:40everyday life is how we manage five

13:43areas of our life and that is our

13:44environment like do I take care of my

13:47environment my uh time

13:53appearance my social life and my

13:57financial life because those are the

13:59those are the five things we worry about

14:01in the back of our head that start

14:03bleeding out these gut feelings because

14:04we've all had a conversation where

14:06everything on the surface looked great

14:09but afterwards we were like something

14:11was off I don't know what it was but

14:13something just didn't feel right about

14:15that guy and we've all had that little

14:17experience

14:19and getting a hold of your those five

14:23qualities that make up Authority are the

14:24fastest way to get success in your life

14:27and just drastically start changing your

14:29life so it's really that the

14:31controllable element it's our

14:33environment our time our appearance our

14:34social life and our finances that's the

14:36like controllable Foundation to all

14:37these other things um that we talked

14:40about yeah so that would be the the

14:41bottom Foundation of that little pyramid

14:44and the far left side of that triangle

14:47would be confidence discipline

14:49leadership gratitude and enjoyment yeah

14:51and those elements alone produce

14:54feelings in other people that make them

14:56see an authority figure and you've heard

14:58of the milgrim

14:59experiment oh gosh it reminds me of

15:01something I read when I was 16 in

15:03Psychology class in a textbook probably

15:05did that was the one where they got

15:07people to shock each other yeah please

15:09explain all right let me give you a

15:10quick recap it's Yale University I think

15:13it's

15:141962 and Yale runs an ad in the paper

15:17says come help us with this study on

15:19learning and we'll give you 20 bucks or

15:21lunch voucher or something like that so

15:23all these volunteers come out and

15:26there's a tall guy in a lab coat and a

15:29official clipboard there and there's one

15:31other volunteer and you draw straws one

15:33of you is the teacher one of you is the

15:34learner so you're led into this room you

15:37watch this learner guy get strapped up

15:39he's on this table getting strapped up

15:41to this electric shock machine and every

15:44time he gets a question on this quiz

15:46wrong you've got to shock him you have

15:48to hit the button and every Progressive

15:51question you increase the voltage on

15:53this machine that goes all the way up on

15:55the far right to xXx danger severe shock

15:59is what it says on

16:00there but the whole time you're shocking

16:02him the you can hear the guy screaming

16:05on the other side of the wall he's

16:06screaming and Midway through the process

16:08the guy's banging on the wall he's like

16:10I have a heart condition I don't want to

16:11do this anymore I'm out I quit I don't

16:13want to do the experiment and 90% of

16:16these people will turn around to the guy

16:17in the lab coat and the guy in the lab

16:18coat is like please continue it's

16:20important that you continue the

16:22experiment so they keep going and going

16:24and almost to the end no more

16:27response it's just silence the guy

16:29doesn't even respond to questions and

16:31the guy in the lab coat says any

16:33non-answer has to be

16:35treated as if it were an incorrect

16:37answer please continue and they keep

16:40going and going and going and you you

16:42can watch some some of these are on

16:44video and you just watch this their

16:47faces toward the

16:49end these psychiatrists at the beginning

16:51of this predicted less than 1% would go

16:55all the

16:56way 67% of people will go all the way

17:00and 250 volts is enough to kill you 100%

17:04went up to 250 the presence of novelty

17:08and Authority did

17:10everything it made a person commit

17:12murder and that's I would say I would

17:14argue that's more difficult than selling

17:17someone a

17:18car and that Authority comes in that

17:21particular example came from going to

17:23the university the lab coat Etc but how

17:25do we establish Authority ourselves is

17:27it going back to the things you said

17:29there about environment appearance Etc

17:31finances yeah is there like are are

17:33there physical expressions of that

17:34Authority in a day-to-day basis there

17:37are slowness of movement is one of the

17:40most common so we have slowness of

17:42movement so the right side of that

17:43Authority triangle has five letters on

17:46it and that stands for movement

17:49appearance confidence connection and

17:51intent is our intent visible that

17:54outward sign of authority is what a lot

17:56of people tend to look for

17:59what does Authority look like but what

18:01we're really doing is I want to look up

18:04the symptoms of authority not the cause

18:09because we all these LinkedIn articles

18:11YouTube videos that are saying how to

18:13have more confidence how to do x y and z

18:16are how to have the symptoms instead of

18:18the cause of authority so people with

18:21authority tend to sit up straight but

18:24they don't sit up straight because they

18:25read an article they sit up straight

18:27because they see the world a certain way

18:29and that's so much of a difference

18:32between changing my world view versus

18:35changing my posture that's very

18:37different outcomes and we're still

18:38generating those gut feelings in people

18:41interesting have you worked with many

18:44people that come to you and they've got

18:45a clear Authority problem is there a

18:47particular example you can think of

18:48where you were able to help someone turn

18:49their life around many hundreds give me

18:52your favorite example my favorite

18:53example was a big CEO he's in Los

18:57Angeles

18:58and he ask me for skills he starts off I

19:01need I need the flight checklist I don't

19:03need to learn to fly I just need the

19:04checklist uh but it takes me a while to

19:07kind of walk people back and say like

19:09let's get to the root of this because

19:10you can't just openly say you have an

19:12authority and and comfort

19:14problem

19:16and his employees

19:19would like openly make fun of him in

19:21board meetings and stuff like that and

19:23he didn't like it and it it his company

19:28was going downhill so fast and I took

19:31him through this process of gaining

19:33let's let's build up your confidence

19:35discipline leadership gratitude and

19:37enjoyment all of those things and let's

19:40find where your lowest point is of those

19:42five if I could just find your lowest

19:44point on that five list then I know the

19:48highest leverage thing that I can do so

19:50if the highest leverage that he can do

19:52would be confidence that's the number

19:54one thing I'm going to start working on

19:56and the moment we took him through that

19:58process say it was only a couple of

19:59months and we used a lot of hypnosis we

20:01used a lot of um I literally used

20:04brainwashing techniques to help him so

20:06it's the same techniques and you know

20:08what uh cognitive behavioral therapy was

20:11also a a form of brainwashing back in

20:13the day and aversion therapy um but

20:17within just a few months he went from

20:20around I think 6 to 800k per month to

20:24like 4 million a month all of his

20:26employees were on board he he did he had

20:29this huge shift the problem comes when

20:33you're when you're a coach and you make

20:35someone's life change that fast they

20:37have to have an

20:39excuse they can't go back to the office

20:41and like they're different right so they

20:44have to say some this thing happened to

20:45me I had this thing so that's the first

20:47thing I work out with every client is

20:48like you need you're going to have to go

20:50back and tell them something happened

20:51that changed your life because you have

20:53to have a reason that you're going back

20:54different so watching that

20:57transformation is so so so rewarding and

21:00incredible but the confidence is usually

21:03what you have to change first with

21:05people how'd you do that you change how

21:09what's going on inside their head so

21:11you've gone on stage before probably a

21:13thousand or 2,000 people you were on TV

21:15for a

21:18while even after you've been

21:20successful have you ever even heard a

21:23tiny voice that said why am I here or

21:26like do I deserve to be here yeah I mean

21:28this is a prime example of that yeah

21:30yeah or I'm faking it people are going

21:33to find out I'm I'm faking it well you

21:35feel like that when you're a podcaster

21:36because you you didn't get any official

21:38qualifications and then people started

21:39listening and then there's they think

21:41that you know what you're doing or you

21:43so I think I can tell that as a

21:45podcaster yeah so and they never go away

21:48so the difference between a person who's

21:50confident and a person who doesn't have

21:53confidence is that they hear those

21:55voices as truth

21:59and I hear them or somebody with

22:02confidence hears them as

22:03fiction they're both listening to the

22:05same thing so imagine like as a quick

22:07story if I if you and I were going to

22:09lunch I said Stephen I'm going to come

22:11pick you up I pull up in front of your

22:13house you jump in the passenger side

22:16we're heading off and I'm listening to

22:19an audio book about a nuclear bomb going

22:24off but it's inside the audiobook

22:26there's a fake news report

22:29about a nuclear bomb going off let's say

22:30it's a pretend BBC broadcast or

22:32something that's going off that it's in

22:34the audiobook we start

22:36driving I'm relaxed I'm focused on the

22:39road I'm enjoying what I'm doing your

22:41heart rate's increased you're fearful

22:43you're a migdala is firing off you're in

22:45this horrible state of like oh my God

22:47what H what's going to happen to my

22:48family we're both hearing the exact same

22:52broadcast we're listening to the same

22:54speakers at the same time but I know

22:57that I'm hearing fiction

22:59and you are worried that it's truth I

23:02don't mean to use you as as that example

23:04but

23:05it's that's the easiest way to to

23:08describe it and then just fundamentally

23:11changing how you hear that voice and

23:15nine times I think 10 times out of 10

23:18that voice was developed when you were

23:20eight or nine what did that kid do and

23:23this is what I would ask any of the

23:24clients what did that kid do to make

23:27friends or keep them so friends to feel

23:31safe now we're in the safety like how

23:34did I get to feel safe and what did I do

23:36to earn rewards and for some people that

23:39might be recognition for other kids who

23:42had a bad start in life that might be

23:45water or food might have been a reward

23:47for those kids so the way that we keep

23:51or earn friends the way that we get

23:53rewards as a child and the way that we

23:55feel what we have to do to feel safe

23:59those develop as little apps in our

24:01brain that run in the background of our

24:03adult lives all the time and we

24:07typically as a kid they're great they

24:09might have kept us safe they might have

24:11kept us alive they might have held us

24:12inside of these Social Circles but I'm

24:14going to be a dick to people so that

24:16they don't get close to me or I'm going

24:18to kiss up to authority figures like Mom

24:20and Dad so I'll get some recognition and

24:23praise and that becomes an app that we

24:27carry into adulthood without knowing it

24:29without our consent without our

24:30awareness that little kid brings these

24:33things into adulthood and they just

24:35modify so I go from having to kiss up to

24:38a narcissistic mother to I'm going to

24:42I'm going to kiss the boss's ass every

24:44single day and everybody knows me as the

24:46office kiss ass so they just translate

24:51from child to adult behavior and if I

24:54can start understanding that then I can

24:56start getting that person to understand

24:59the fundamental way to change their life

25:01and I make them put those phrases out in

25:04the open to where it's so I want them to

25:07be pissed off so I will make them get a

25:10desktop wallpaper that says I don't

25:12deserve money money is for other people

25:17just just to make their brains see how

25:19stupid it is on a regular basis and put

25:21it on a motivational

25:22poster and the second part of that

25:26is I any anybody who's confident has a

25:30generalized expectation of positive

25:32outcomes not specific but things are

25:35going to be fine things are going to be

25:36fine so if I can do that you can

25:41fundamentally change someone's life so

25:43the final point of that which leads into

25:45discipline is I need to get you to form

25:48a relationship with your future

25:51self because everything that goes into

25:54on in our life has to do with our

25:55mamalian brain this lower part of our

25:57brain

25:58here and it doesn't speak English

26:01there's no affirmation that's going to

26:03penetrate that barrier there's no like

26:06I'm going to read a quote on a wall or a

26:09PowerPoint slide that's going to

26:10fundamentally change Behavior you have

26:12to change the animal the Mamon part of

26:15the brain so the question I ask

26:17everybody that I'm training is how would

26:19I teach it to a

26:21dog how would I how would I show my

26:24goals if I'm setting goals for next year

26:27how would I show that to a dog cuz I

26:29have to get it down to a mammal so the

26:32fastest way to do that is through Visual

26:34means so I have all of my clients

26:37download this app I can't remember the

26:39name of it there's probably a hundred

26:41but it makes you look like

26:4395 yeah and you're just covered in

26:46wrinkles it makes a lot of your hair

26:48kind of go away and I make them print it

26:51out and put it everywhere just for a

26:53couple of weeks and now we start

26:55developing a mental mamalian in

26:58relationship with our future self which

27:00changes how I eat changes how I spend

27:02money it changes maybe what time I go to

27:05bed how much alcohol I drink and mostly

27:09uh where I'm getting my dopamine from if

27:11I draw a map of everywhere I'm getting

27:13my dopamine from and more than 50% of it

27:17is on alcohol or porn or you know all of

27:21these things that I don't want that's

27:23you have to be very very honest with

27:25yourself at that point of where do I

27:27need to get dopamine front of in my life

27:30and successful people every single

27:32successful person that I've ever met has

27:35a good dopamine map so they they get

27:37dopamine from good sources instead of

27:39bad ones and is there a relationship

27:41between discipline and confidence I

27:44think so very much it's like if if you

27:46and I were sitting in an airport

27:48together let's say we're sitting in

27:49Atlanta airport and I just asked you

27:52with and you're not a behavior profiler

27:54as far as I know but I said Stephen look

27:57around and find somebody that's

27:59disciplined it would take you 5 seconds

28:02because we don't need to to profile

28:04people that's a natural thing that you

28:07picked up on it on purpose but we pick

28:08up on it unconsciously all the time so

28:11having that level of discipline elevates

28:13our level of confidence automatically

28:15because we know that other people are

28:17going to pick up on it but we also know

28:20I'm moving up and I'm probably more in

28:22control of myself than the person that

28:24I'm talking to or the people that I'm

28:25I'm dealing with regularly so so how we

28:28live off camera is coming through in our

28:31confidence that's the exact thing that

28:33we were talking about that environment

28:35time appearance and if I can live off

28:39camera the same

28:40way that I want to be perceived by

28:44everybody in my life my confidence

28:45already starts to

28:47grow and you said enjoyment as well was

28:49one of the five yeah why is enjoyment

28:52important I added it on there it it took

28:55a while but I walked through every body

28:58I've ever trained and if you look at

29:00everyone who is a natural leader and has

29:03that level of authority they are not

29:06just partying in the moment but just in

29:10calmly enjoying what is happening now so

29:13maybe you could call it mindfulness but

29:16I think in just the trait of enjoyment

29:19and being in enjoyment is the most

29:22magnetic human trait that there

29:24is what do I need to know about

29:26observation which is the second part of

29:30your triangle to success or

29:32failure observation being able to read a

29:35room is it possible to be able to read a

29:37room yeah how would I go about reading a

29:39room okay so if if you're reading like a

29:42public area yeah let's go back to the

29:44airport maybe yeah if I'm in a public

29:47area I really want to pay attention to

29:49the slowest moving person in the room I

29:52want to pay attention to who is more

29:54confident than the other person and

29:56that's typically going back to speed and

30:00if I'm if I'm reading other people well

30:03I'm also making a lot of eye contact

30:05with them so that's also one of the

30:08fastest ways to get a read on another

30:10human being is how often they're

30:12blinking and if a person is blinking

30:16fast it's a sign of high stress if

30:19they're blinking really slow it's a sign

30:21of focus so it's not always relaxation

30:25so if I talk to a psychopath and a

30:28interrogation room or in a business

30:30negotiation and they're very focused on

30:32prey so we call that a prey

30:35Focus because they're going to

30:36manipulate somebody their blink rate

30:38will almost be at zero if I talk to

30:41somebody who's being deceptive their

30:43blink rate can go up to like a 75 80

30:46without us even knowing it so one of the

30:48reasons that blink rate is so reliable

30:51is that it's unconscious we don't

30:53realize the shifts in blink rate and we

30:55don't manually control it very well

30:58and if all that I would ever need to

31:00teach somebody you don't have to count

31:02or know how many times per minute it's

31:03going on is if I'm in a conversation I'm

31:07going to start the conversation and say

31:08is the blink rate normal does it look

31:11fast does it look slow so what I'm

31:13really looking for in human behavior are

31:16changes changes so if I'm on stage and

31:19if I'm let's say I'm doing a keynote and

31:22across the room I'm making eye contact

31:24with all these people and I start seeing

31:25an increase in audience blink rate I I

31:27know I need to change the subject or

31:29change the topic right away so would you

31:32be looking at one particular person no

31:35so generally yeah so I would look at all

31:38of these eyes and pretend like I'm

31:39looking at one

31:41human okay does that make sense getting

31:43an average of the yeah so as I'm looking

31:46around how many blinks do I see and I'm

31:47going to pretend as if that was one

31:49human eye okay so when you get a lower

31:53blink rate people are paying more

31:55attention yeah you're doing a great job

31:57and you can I go to these pitch meetings

32:00where these uh entrepreneurs will go up

32:01and Pitch these Angel Investors and

32:03stuff like that up in Washington and you

32:06can measure who will pitch based on

32:08blink rate you see a blink rate drop

32:11that is the most interested person in

32:13the room we do the same thing with jury

32:15selection it's so reliable and you you

32:19read these articles about like someone

32:21breathing into their chest it takes a

32:23while to get good at that with your

32:24peripheral vision because I've taught it

32:27to people and they would have spend a

32:28conversation with someone staring at

32:30their chest and especially if you're

32:32talking to a woman it's a bad idea so

32:35blink rate is incredibly reliable so to

32:39recap that skill yeah I start a

32:41conversation does it look pretty normal

32:43is it pretty fast or kind of slow then

32:46I'm going to look for changes and that's

32:47all I'm looking for in a room of people

32:50is what's

32:51changing so 70 is deceptive and zero is

32:56psychopath 70 is stress not always decep

33:00okay and zero is psychopath basically

33:03zero might be psychopath context is the

33:06second letter C there's five C's that we

33:08talk about in Behavior profiling so

33:11change then context MH so now it like

33:14somebody just crossed their arms and you

33:16read the internet it says it's being

33:18defensive withholding closed off see all

33:20that stuff well what if it's freezing

33:22cold yeah so now we have Contex so

33:24interesting that actually happened in my

33:25last conversation I um I try not to

33:27close off my body when I'm doing this

33:29cuz some sometimes my natural reaction

33:31is to go like this and then sometimes

33:33especially in here when it gets later

33:35and we didn't have the fan in the heater

33:37I would go like this yeah and what I'm

33:39if like the I was thinking but this is

33:41rude the rude to the guest but I looked

33:43at my arms and I had these like massive

33:44Goosebumps and I was like that's the

33:46context yeah the context is I'm

33:48freezing yeah but to the guest it would

33:50look like I'm going like this yeah you

33:53know so this is why body language is so

33:56delicate I think is delicate and it's so

33:59hard to for people to do peer-reviewed

34:01research on it because there's a million

34:05variables it's like saying well why

34:07should Roger Federer win a tennis match

34:10when he doesn't have any peer-reviewed

34:12studies to back up what he's doing yeah

34:15it's the same thing with body language

34:17because like they're doing interrogation

34:21research so they're saying that a

34:23college kid who gets a lunch voucher and

34:26walks in and pretends to to lie about a

34:29duck is exactly the same as someone

34:31who's been captured in combat sleep

34:34deprived for a few days has a black hood

34:36over their head and they're drugg into

34:37an interrogation room and they're saying

34:39those behaviors are identical then

34:41there's the peer-reviewed research on

34:43lying and not lying it's so you cannot

34:47replicate human behavior that well so

34:49and people treat it like it's a

34:51pharmaceutical like I can put a Tylenol

34:53in somebody and I can measure all these

34:55responses and it doesn't really go into

34:57aad spr sheet like that and there's a

34:59lot of great research out there but I'd

35:01say it's just so incredibly hard to

35:03replicate everything in with perfection

35:06like that so what was the first C first

35:09C is change I want to look for a change

35:11and then you want to look at context is

35:12there a third C that would be clusters

35:15clusters so then you read articles that

35:17say

35:18someone looks a certain way or does a

35:21certain thing that might be deceptive

35:22like the most common one I hear is

35:24someone touches their nose so someone

35:26touching their nose might be being de

35:27cve if you're just seeing one

35:30thing I would say that never almost

35:33never means anything you want to look

35:35for a cluster of behavior so they

35:37started getting nervous which is a

35:38change they're it's because I'm asking

35:41about where they were on Wednesday night

35:42there's the context and while they were

35:44getting nervous they also started

35:46protecting their genitals with their

35:47hands and licking their lips which is a

35:50hygienic gesture that we do so now I

35:53have a change within the context that's

35:55appropriate and there's a cluster of

35:59Behavior after that I screen through

36:01culture is there some part of this

36:02person's culture or background uh that

36:05makes them do that like I was with a

36:07young person we were watching a

36:11Pakistani person get inter interrogated

36:14and you know how you you commonly see

36:16that kind of headshake oh yeah in that

36:18region of the world they said I was

36:20shaking his head while he's saying yes

36:22like now we get down to that sea this is

36:25culture which rules out uh that Behavior

36:28or gets rid of it and finally the most

36:30the least important thing on that list

36:32is the

36:33checklist and by checklist I mean there

36:36is a list of known behaviors that are

36:39likely to be deception and if you're in

36:41body language you deal in likelihood

36:43that's all we deal in some people say

36:45they're 100% sure on stuff and I'm

36:49skeptical but we deal in likelihood so

36:52we should always process in that so

36:54someone licking their lips or moving a

36:57certain way if it's in on a checklist

37:00does not mean that it's deceptive MH cuz

37:03what if they do it all the time then we

37:05don't have a change does that make sense

37:07yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah I was thinking

37:08about things I used to do when I was

37:09younger and there was just a period of

37:11my life where for some bizarre reason I

37:12used to go like this and I used to do it

37:15all the time a tick it was almost like a

37:17tick yeah you know what's really weird I

37:18think this sounds like a really crazy

37:19thing to say

37:22but one of my best friends had like

37:26curtains

37:28like the haircut curtains okay and he

37:30used to flick it and I almost like

37:32vicariously picked up the like flicking

37:33from him I'd go like that all the time

37:36but I was just thinking if someone saw

37:38me doing that they would perceive that

37:39as some some form of behavior whereas it

37:43was just this weird thing that lasted

37:44for like two years when I was younger

37:46and then went away yeah but did you do

37:48it all the time I just did it I oh I

37:50don't know I felt like I just did it

37:51randomly but that that wouldn't be a

37:53change okay yeah if I if I was meting

37:56you yeah and

37:58you were on the Dragon's Den for a while

38:00still yeah and people pitch you yeah all

38:03kinds of

38:04ideas that just having somebody on the

38:08show or just having those skills with

38:10you you could see through a lot of those

38:12people and whether or not they're being

38:15honest about what they're pitching

38:16they're confident about what they're

38:18pitching and you could look at a show

38:20like Shark Tank and I can look at I can

38:23watch any episode of Shark Tank and look

38:25who's blinking the least MH they're

38:27they're going to be the first to make an

38:28offer 99% of the time because they're

38:31the most focused on what's going on

38:33they're they're personally

38:35invested so that's fascinating is that

38:39just you could just look at one or two

38:40things and predict stress or focus and

38:46just being able to do that if you just

38:48took that one thing away from this that

38:50would be a

38:51superpower because I sit here with

38:53guests right and they talk about their

38:54life stories and stuff and I often see

38:56some patterns of Behavior yeah

38:58specifically like closing up when you

39:00ask someone something about their

39:01childhood or a specific sensitive

39:04subject in their life you tend to see

39:06like self I call it like self- soothing

39:08Behavior to some degree so it's

39:10difficult and it's funny because we

39:12we're all like amateur body language

39:14experts now yeah because there's been a

39:16lot of stuff online saying spot this did

39:18they touch their nose Etc so it can also

39:19be dangerous it can and it can give us

39:22these like oh I saw this one thing I'm

39:23never doing business with that guy yeah

39:25and like he scratched his nose three

39:27times while he was talking about that

39:28well he's look in his briefcase he's got

39:31allergy medication in there he's

39:33scratching his nose the season just

39:34changed it Springtime his nose is red

39:37when he came in so he's been scratching

39:38it for 30 minutes before he walked in

39:41the door so now we we start to realize

39:43I'm not seeing a change I'm seeing

39:45something that was repetitive and

39:48communication is the third one in the

39:49Triangle to success or failure

39:52communication so what I've got so far is

39:54talking slow is higher authority yeah is

39:57there anything else that if I want to be

39:58a master Communicator I should be

40:00thinking about

40:02absolutely

40:03oh when it comes to communication a

40:06being a good Storyteller is great and

40:08there's a million podcasts out there

40:10that can teach somebody that but it

40:13comes down to whether or not you can

40:16speak to the person that you are in

40:18front of MH and understanding what kind

40:21of person that is and there's a few ways

40:25that I identify I I segregate people

40:27into six groups and that's through what

40:31do they need from other people so what

40:33kind of things do I need

40:36socially and these are

40:39significance

40:41acceptance

40:43approval intelligence pity and strength

40:48or SL

40:50power and in every conversation if you

40:54ask somebody about themselves they're

40:56going to come across

40:58and reveal one of those things to you so

41:01if I know that you are a significance

41:04driven person and I'm selling you on how

41:07smart of an idea this is and how

41:10intelligent you are for making this

41:11Choice I'm

41:13communicating way opposite in what you

41:15need to hear so the moment that I hear

41:18you talk about yourself your

41:19accomplishments what you like in life

41:21what happened for you this week what's a

41:23great memory that you have every

41:26conversation you're going to hear this

41:27stuff starting to get revealed so you

41:29hear somebody Within These are

41:31conversation or things that you could

41:33hear in a conversation pretty quickly

41:36you start talking to somebody and they

41:37said yeah I'm actually the CEO of that

41:40company I've got 490 people that work

41:43for me and I'm probably going to be

41:45making an exit sometime next year so you

41:48hear that there's significance right uh

41:51then you then you listen for approval is

41:54this is when you hear people say well I

41:55got to go up on stage tomorrow Tom but I

41:57suck at public speaking I'm going to I'm

41:59going to really bomb at it I'm just

42:00really nervous trying to get you to say

42:03no no you don't suck you're great you

42:06did great last time you're going to rock

42:08this you got this then you have the

42:10acceptance people they'll always use the

42:11terms like we us our and just team so

42:17acceptance people are all about like I'm

42:19a member of some kind of group and

42:21that'll come across in their

42:22communication so you ask a significance

42:25person about a vacation and they say I

42:27went down to Miami it was fantastic I

42:29had a great time and I just got back

42:31last night you ask an acceptance person

42:32they'll say we went down there all of us

42:35went to this thing and we did this so

42:38you hear a lot of this language that

42:39talks about groups and membership you

42:41get into the intelligence side how often

42:44do you hear people go yeah I actually

42:45got my MBA from this person oh I did my

42:48Master's thesis on that do you hear this

42:51intelligence stuff come out of people

42:53and the pity is you can identify a Pity

42:56person pretty well and those are the

42:58hardest people to communicate to and the

43:01pity person always like if I want to

43:03give you the ideal thing to say to each

43:05one of these people the pity person

43:07wants to hear I can't believe all the

43:11stuff that you've been through and

43:13you've got to this point because I don't

43:16think many people would have pity wants

43:18recognition of

43:20suffering and finally we have the

43:22strength and power person and this isn't

43:25always Biff from Back to the Future

43:28so it's can be somebody who's a leader

43:30in a company they want but they want

43:32control so significance is do I make a

43:35difference strength and power is do I

43:37have control over other people these are

43:40the everybody from like the leader who

43:43kind of forces his way into the top to

43:45the guy with the ridiculous jacked up

43:48pickup truck that has like the plastic

43:50testicles hanging off of the back of it

43:52and once you understand what

43:54categorization someone fits into how

43:57would you show up in a way that's

43:59effective in communicating with them say

44:01for example if I'm talking to a

44:02significance person yeah do I

44:05just and and I'm trying to close a deal

44:07with them or something do I Pander to

44:09their significance is that yeah so

44:12there's a few other types that we teach

44:14intelligence people to identify there's

44:17the six ways we make decisions and then

44:19six ways that we have values which is

44:21our end goal that we want but I want to

44:23speak in a way that says this decision

44:26is going to increase your level of

44:28significance and I want to compliment

44:30them on their level of significance

44:32right before I ask them for something so

44:34I could say You Stephen um this is a

44:37great podcast you've got millions of

44:39subscribers and it's obvious you make a

44:40difference in so many people's lives and

44:44you are a significance person so that

44:46would be effective uh for you because I

44:48know that you want to make the biggest

44:50difference that you can and I want to

44:53speak in a way that a speaks to their

44:55needs and lets them know that I'm I am a

44:57source for that but B that making this

45:01decision whatever the whatever we're

45:03talking about selling a car whatever is

45:05going to increase your ability to get

45:08that same need from other people so I

45:11think if we did this together I think

45:12the number one thing that's going to

45:14happen right away is you're going to be

45:16able to impact twice as many people

45:18you're going to leave a much deeper

45:20footprint on the world so I'm giving you

45:23we're going to double your subscribers

45:25or your listeners but not just that

45:27you're going to make a bigger impact and

45:29Legacy on the

45:30world so every time I'm thinking about

45:33needs always think in terms of

45:36neurotransmitters so if I can compliment

45:39someone on their need that's what we

45:40need from other people so I'm giving

45:42them like 500 million neurotransmitters

45:45being released when they hear this so

45:48it's not just that we

45:50are kind of suffering and insecure and

45:53all these things that we talked about a

45:54minute ago we're also drug addicts

45:57everybody we just need to identify the

45:59drug that that person's addicted

46:03to I was thinking about the pen I was

46:05like I was going to ask you to if I'm

46:08a if I'm an INT intelligence person and

46:11you had to sell me the pen yeah how

46:14would you go about that you know I think

46:17there's a lot of people in the world out

46:19there and I think most people just do

46:21what other people do and I'm sure you

46:24would agree there's so many idiots out

46:26there that just get with the basic thing

46:27I'm going to do this basic thing and

46:29they don't really go outside the box

46:30very often and every once in a while

46:34there's you meet somebody who knows

46:37higher quality things you and you meet

46:39somebody who is able to see things at a

46:42level different than other people and I

46:45would talk about that intelligence while

46:48subconsciously I'm associating all of

46:50that with this this is different it's

46:51Unique it's a pencil um but it's it's

46:55not like other pencil it's not the basic

46:58run-of-the-mill thing so I want to

46:59present that in a way and I want to

47:01start with a negative comment and this

47:03is one of the most effective persuasion

47:05strategies is to I'm going to negatively

47:08associate something I don't want you to

47:10have so let's say uh we're starting our

47:14podcast and I'm I'm afraid Stephen's not

47:15going to connect with me and I know that

47:17you're significance

47:19driven as we started out imagine if I

47:22said something at the very beginning of

47:24this podcast and I said Stephen

47:26thanks for having me man and there's so

47:28many people out there and when anytime I

47:30say something negative in a conversation

47:32I never want to gesture in between you

47:34and me I always want to gesture away so

47:36this is we're talking about other people

47:38you know there's so many people out

47:39there who

47:41just don't really give back to the world

47:45and they don't really have an interest

47:46in helping other people and it's like

47:48every time you meet one of those people

47:50you sit down with them it's like all of

47:52them have the same thing in common they

47:54can't just stop and connect

47:57when they sit down with

47:59somebody so I'm demonizing a trait using

48:03your

48:04needs that I don't want you to have like

48:07the inability to connect ah okay

48:10interesting and you're consciously

48:12pointing off to adjust it to it's others

48:15not right until I said the word connect

48:17and then I gestured between you and me

48:19back and forth between both of us and

48:22that word stop is a very powerful word

48:24in the English language so when I that

48:27it's like all of them have the same

48:28quality to them they can't just

48:30stop and fully connect with somebody

48:34else that's a very subtle thing but I've

48:36used your neurotransmitters I've used

48:38your needs and I've I've got you to

48:40agree you nodded your head

48:42if agree that those people don't really

48:45connect well with other people so that's

48:48how powerful that stuff can be and you

48:50can use the same thing in the in

48:52reverse and I could I could say a

48:55positive thing I could say you know

48:56Stephen what's fascinating to me is I've

48:59gone around the world I've met several

49:01entrepreneurs I've met people who are on

49:03TV and it's like you think that they are

49:06just dismissive offand before you meet

49:09them and it's incredible when you meet

49:11these people it's like all of them have

49:13this ability to just tune everything out

49:15and just completely connect with

49:18somebody and that would have the same

49:21effect and what what's going on there

49:24people we want

49:25to be that person because it's positive

49:28we want to live up to that expectation

49:31set right so what I've done is I've

49:34gotten you to say um as Chris Voss would

49:37put it that's right okay but I've got

49:40you to say that about who you are as a

49:42person okay so now I'm not changing your

49:45ideas I'm changing your

49:47identity changing my Identity or yeah

49:50because you've made an agreement about

49:51who you are you've nodded your head okay

49:54and if I wanted to take that further

49:57I would I would make an admission first

49:59and I'd say you know what I've had

50:00social anxiety growing up and I'm

50:03curious what is it that have you always

50:05been able to just connect with everybody

50:07you talked to or is this something that

50:08you had to work

50:11on oh was that a question yeah okay but

50:14I know it's not a question Yeah Yeah

50:16question the moment that you ask that

50:19that you start to answer that question

50:21you stepped you've made an agreement

50:22about who you are as a person so if I

50:25wanted somebody to be less close

50:27off I might say you know I've spent my

50:29whole life just worried about what other

50:31people think and it it to I was 25

50:33before I got to a point where I was able

50:35to open up have you always been this

50:37open with people or did you have to work

50:40on that so just any answer and no one's

50:44going to give you an answer like

50:45actually I'm just closed off I'm very

50:46close-minded and that's maybe a 0.1% of

50:50people so small agreements and none of

50:53these are designed for people to take

50:56word for word word I guess they can but

50:58it's about the idea of getting someone

51:00to comment on their own identity who

51:02they are as a person is there anything

51:05else as it relates to communication

51:06that's especially important it's funny

51:09that so many people are interested in

51:12the communication part more so than the

51:15listening part they want the flight

51:17checklist yeah I was think of Julian

51:18treasure who did the Ted Talk on how to

51:20be a great speaker he told me he also

51:22did a Ted Talk on how to be a great

51:24listener no no one listened he said

51:26everyone wanted to his one on speaking

51:28has got like 35 million views but the

51:30one on listening just no one's

51:32interested in that but I'm I'm guessing

51:34listening plays a pretty critical role

51:36to being a great speaker yeah and

51:38listening means I can identify who you

51:41are and what the needs that are driving

51:43you and the social needs and the the way

51:45that you make decisions is that part of

51:47the observation part yes

51:50absolutely just listening to that means

51:52that now I have the right words to use

51:54for the communication and the right the

51:56right understanding of what motivates

51:57you as a person so if I'm a therapist

51:59that makes me a better therapist if I'm

52:01a hostage negotiator that makes me a

52:03better hostage negotiator and if I'm a

52:06suicide hotline operator that makes me

52:09way better at my job because I'm

52:10understanding exactly who I'm talking to

52:12and my goal is to talk someone into

52:14doing something that they normally would

52:16not do you talk about this

52:18elicitation yeah what is elicitation

52:21it's a CIA technique right it is it was

52:23originally came up with by this guy

52:25named John Nolan and his book is no

52:27longer for sale you have to get it on

52:29eBay like it's hard to find but the book

52:33is called confidential why isn't it no

52:35longer for sale I think that he just

52:37kind of pulled it off the shelf I'm not

52:39sure okay so elicitation is about using

52:42statements instead of questions and I'll

52:45give you an example let's say you and I

52:48walk into Whole Foods which is we're in

52:51New York so it's probably a block away

52:53somewhere we walk in there and there's

52:57uh let's say there's a young lady

52:58stocking

53:00produce and you get in there and I say

53:04all right Stephen your goal is to go

53:07figure out how much she makes in 60

53:09seconds and you're not allowed to ask

53:10any questions or be

53:14awkward and that's tough right it's it

53:17sounds really tough so if you went over

53:20to her and and this is a a

53:23generalization just to get you to

53:25understand what elicitation is

53:27and said heyy I'm trying to find the

53:29baby carrots and she walks you over

53:31there but while you're walking you say I

53:33just read this article online it says

53:34all Whole Foods employees just got

53:36bumped up to $26 an hour that's

53:39fantastic and she turns around goes

53:42what no I I make

53:4517 so now she doesn't feel like she's

53:48been pressed or questioned about how

53:51much she makes she's correcting you mhm

53:53or if you let's say you got into an Uber

53:56tonight and you said I just read this

53:58article that Uber drivers were one of

54:01the top most highly

54:04satisfied employees in the country

54:07you're going to get a

54:08correction and you're going to be like

54:10what where did you read that so

54:13triggering A need to correct the record

54:15is one of the easiest ways to use

54:17elicitation but it's only one another

54:20one is just making a statement

54:23afterwards and saying I bet you had some

54:25interesting exper experiences doing that

54:27or I can imagine that was challenging

54:30statements are always going to be better

54:31than asking pointed questions because a

54:34person feels like they're volunteering

54:36information the third layer of that is

54:40disbelief so let's say I wanted to ask

54:43if you just got back from vacation and I

54:46didn't want to use any questions we

54:49let's say we meet up for dinner or

54:50something and I said see you look like

54:53you just got back from a vacation

54:56that's a statement and you're like no

54:58actually I've been doing this this this

54:59and this so now you've you've given me

55:02more than if I just asked if you were on

55:04vacation MH and I said wow that had to

55:07be interesting I I can't imagine that

55:10there's got to be a lot of stuff going

55:11on there and you start talking more and

55:13more and more and then like that sounds

55:17great there was no challenges to that

55:19entire trip I love when everything is

55:22100% Flawless and you're like no

55:24actually and then you start going into

55:26that and I'm like no way then now we

55:28have disbelief that comes in and I

55:30haven't asked a single question yet so

55:33that's one thing that I challenge

55:34everybody that I train to get really

55:36good at is that elicitation piece how

55:38many layers can I get into a person or a

55:43conversation just using these statements

55:46and that's why I wrote a there's a whole

55:48chapter about it in in this book here

55:51but that elicitation is powerful

55:54because we're not being asked questions

55:56so our brain doesn't set off little

55:58security alarms and this is how Soviet

56:01spies would get information from a

56:0419-year-old US Navy

56:06sailor uh in the early days of the Cold

56:09War they s ship would pull into Thailand

56:12or submarine would pull into Thailand or

56:14Singapore and a Russian would go up and

56:16these Sailors would be drinking at the

56:18bar Russian would sit there he's got a a

56:21loha shirt on or

56:22something and strike up a conversation

56:25they say

56:27I know that the the German submarines

56:29could outrun you because their

56:30propellers are 22 and all of your

56:32submarine propellers are 18 fet in

56:34diameter and the Sailor slightly drunk

56:36turns around and say no they're not and

56:39starts giving up all this information

56:41just to correct the record and that's

56:43all they did back then was just

56:45correcting the record I'm triggering

56:47this need to offer some kind of

56:48Correction to information that's

56:50inaccurate and even with business

56:54intelligence let's say the a company's

56:56moving and they have to get business

56:57intelligence somebody at that company

56:59will get approached at a bar and

57:01somebody will say yeah I heard you guys

57:03are moving between March and

57:05April and they'll get corrected in they

57:07say no it's actually February but we're

57:09not really supposed to talk about it

57:10it's like there's no way you're going to

57:11move in February it's too cold and the

57:14interest rates are up too high there's

57:15no possible way that the CEO would ever

57:17do that it's like yeah and then you're

57:19going you're going to get more

57:20information out because of the disbelief

57:23so that was correcting the record a

57:25second technique called bracketing where

57:27I'm giving you a series like between

57:29March and may or between 39 and 59 and

57:33the third is the disbelief that starts

57:36getting this information out of people

57:38so if you want to think about like how

57:40do I start a conversation or continue

57:42one using elicitation think of the words

57:45so and then do a recap so you've been

57:48doing this for three years or so this is

57:51not the best job but it's getting things

57:52done for you or I bet so I bet that was

57:56I bet there were still some challenges

57:58there I bet you overcame a whole lot to

58:00get to this point so or I bet is the

58:02best way to do that and when okay so if

58:04I say I bet you hate that coffee yeah

58:08that that's a statement but you're gonna

58:10Endeavor to correct the record either

58:12way yeah and if you do hate the coffee

58:16you'll say yeah like even you saying yes

58:20I do kind of hate it is offering up

58:21information yeah okay interesting and

58:25you could even go go on with that like I

58:28bet you hate that coffee and somebody

58:29says yeah well I do kind of hate it like

58:31I can imagine you're the kind of person

58:32who likes coffee a very specific way

58:35well yeah here's how I like it a lot and

58:37say that's extremely

58:41interesting no creamer no sugar and I'm

58:44just recapping so why is that better

58:47than me just

58:48going how' you prefer your coffee well

58:52if we're just talking about coffee it's

58:53not sensitive information so I wouldn't

58:55I wouldn't say that was better it's for

58:57sensitive information when you're trying

58:58to not get their guard up yeah so the

59:00rule of thumb is the more sensitive the

59:02information is that you need the less

59:04questions you need to be asking and is

59:06that what I mean that's does correlate

59:08to kind of like how I've uh the

59:11information that the spies I've

59:12interviewed have given me like Andrew

59:14Bustamante and Mike Baker they've both

59:16said that much of the game was like

59:19hearing someone out and just letting

59:20them talk and talk and talk and talk

59:23yeah but not being too pushy yeah and

59:25that's that's the best way to not be

59:27pushy is to use the elicitation stuff

59:30perception context permission the PCP

59:33model is a way of understanding how to

59:35get someone to do something from joining

59:37a cult to buying an item yeah so the PCP

59:42model looks like it's three steps but

59:45it's I I want you to view it as kind of

59:47dominoes so one step starts the progress

59:51of coming down the other and once that

59:52comes down the next Domino starts going

59:54down m so if I change your perception

59:57about

59:59something then I change the context that

1:00:01you're viewing that in which changes the

1:00:04way that you feel permission to do it so

1:00:06I'll give you an example would you want

1:00:07a weird example or a boring one we we'll

1:00:11go with let's go with weird Okay so

1:00:13let's go with uh an

1:00:16attorney in Washington state

1:00:20was charged with assault of a woman

1:00:26using

1:00:27hypnosis and he would have her get naked

1:00:31in his

1:00:32office which is something she would not

1:00:34normally do

1:00:36and the attorney was studying this

1:00:39hypnosis and stuff like that he wasn't I

1:00:41don't as as far as I know he was not

1:00:42even

1:00:43good but he would hypnotize her and then

1:00:46tell

1:00:47her at the end of the day you come home

1:00:50from work and this is just like that

1:00:52time I want you to picture yourself it's

1:00:54the end of the day you're coming home

1:00:56from work you drop your keys in the bowl

1:00:59you make your way to the bathroom you

1:01:00turn on a hot shower and now you're here

1:01:03getting ready to get into that shower so

1:01:06he's changed her perception of where she

1:01:08is he changed the context of neither one

1:01:11of you or me right now would like get

1:01:13naked on a podcast but both of us are

1:01:15going to later tonight when we go to

1:01:17shower so but because that's a different

1:01:19context so he modified the context which

1:01:23gave her permission to remove clothing

1:01:26or do something that we otherwise

1:01:28wouldn't do in a social

1:01:30setting one of the ways I studied this

1:01:34and it was fascinating is cult

1:01:37recruiters I spent a a long time well

1:01:40six weeks working with these cult

1:01:42recruiters and I was back and forth

1:01:44between cult recruiters and door-to-door

1:01:46salespeople and these are hard-hit

1:01:48people man that it's a hard job door

1:01:50to-door

1:01:51sales but they talk people into doing

1:01:55things they probably

1:01:56wouldn't otherwise have done M uh

1:01:59installing a

1:02:01$95,000 solar system on their roof or

1:02:05buying a vacuum cleaner or joining a

1:02:07cult that's probably

1:02:09harmful but all of them started off the

1:02:12conversation by changing the perception

1:02:14of what's going on so instead of me

1:02:17saying hey let me talk to you about this

1:02:19thing that's from a like a needy

1:02:21perspective they come out with a

1:02:24survey and they say it's it's an

1:02:26anonymous survey which automatically

1:02:28makes the people more open so it's an

1:02:32anonymous survey I've changed permission

1:02:34so now the context has shifted slightly

1:02:38and if I could change your perception

1:02:39again would you rather be in a group of

1:02:42people who feel like family or people

1:02:44who are related to you so I start asking

1:02:47all these little questions about how

1:02:49would you rather lived your life in a

1:02:51way that's like just kind of nudging you

1:02:53down into this cult mindset of like do

1:02:56you want to be around people that enjoy

1:02:58your company like those kind of

1:03:00questions so more perception changes now

1:03:03the context shifts to where I've just

1:03:05made 25 agreements about who I am as a

1:03:09human

1:03:10being so now my my context is way off

1:03:14which shifts my permission it's like I

1:03:16have permission to do this because

1:03:18that's the kind of person I've just

1:03:19agreed to be and that's who I've said

1:03:21that I am I have to do this because

1:03:23that's cognitive dissonance like crazy

1:03:25and one thing I teach you about any

1:03:27persuasion whether you're doing a scop

1:03:28on an entire country or you're just

1:03:31manipulating one person or doing therapy

1:03:34on one person your main weapon as a

1:03:38person who is persuasive or influential

1:03:41is cognitive dissonance which is I'm

1:03:44getting you to be uncomfortable because

1:03:47I'm get the way that I've got you to see

1:03:48the world doesn't match up with what

1:03:50you're doing so the fast easiest thing

1:03:53for you to change is what you're doing

1:03:54instead of changing your mind about

1:03:56something or calling yourself dumb I

1:03:58just get you to do something different

1:04:00and that's weaponized cognitive

1:04:02dissonance we're seeing a lot of that

1:04:04with the extreme left extreme right

1:04:06Politics on both both of those extremes

1:04:09once I get a person to

1:04:11make even one or two or three statements

1:04:14about their identity I have drastically

1:04:17altered how they're going to behave in

1:04:18the future uh Robert

1:04:21chalini who wrote influence and

1:04:24persuasion wonderful human being wrote

1:04:28about this where a few

1:04:31weeks before they go ask somebody to put

1:04:34a giant ugly sign in their yard that

1:04:36says drive safe huge ugly sign two weeks

1:04:40before that they go back door to door

1:04:42and say do you support safe driving yes

1:04:44or

1:04:44no who's going to say no it's like 91%

1:04:48said yeah yeah I support safe driving

1:04:50they said good will you put this tiny

1:04:52sticker in your front window tiny little

1:04:55sticker and just to let us know that

1:04:57you're supporting safe driving that's

1:04:59all we all we ask you to do two weeks

1:05:02later they come back to the neighborhood

1:05:05like 89% of people are sticking these

1:05:08signs in their yard the other

1:05:09neighborhood they did the test on didn't

1:05:11have this little survey do you support

1:05:13safe driving first and it was like 6%

1:05:17stuck the sign in their yard so making

1:05:20one agreement about who I am and then

1:05:22taking action on it so if I can get you

1:05:25to take AC ction on something not in

1:05:26just between you and me now I got you to

1:05:29put a sticker on your window I got you

1:05:32to do something that alters the way

1:05:33other people see you so if I can get you

1:05:36to make something that I've got you to

1:05:39believe public I get you to make a

1:05:41Twitter post I get you to make a

1:05:43Facebook post now I've captured identity

1:05:46so most persuasion and influence

1:05:48training in the world is about capturing

1:05:50ideas identity is where you truly get to

1:05:53change Behavior because I'm getting you

1:05:55to agree that you are a certain type of

1:05:57person before I want you to do

1:05:59anything

1:06:01interesting it explains a lot about

1:06:03politics in fact you know what we what

1:06:06we see go on in the election cycles and

1:06:07also just how a a political party

1:06:10political group can slowly

1:06:13drift together to a position that

1:06:18objectively go blood L that's crazy yeah

1:06:21you know because they kind of slowly

1:06:22they say I'm this party I signed up to

1:06:24this this particular political party and

1:06:27then slowly just with like creep of

1:06:29beliefs you end up over 10 years all of

1:06:32you believing in thinking something is

1:06:34okay yeah it's interesting just because

1:06:37you made an agreement I guess in part

1:06:39that explains some of the wars as well

1:06:41like there's an element here which can

1:06:44be can explain things like Nazi Germany

1:06:47yeah and how a civilization can go from

1:06:50being relatively normal to doing really

1:06:54horrific barbaric things to people yeah

1:06:56if you just going back to the milgrim

1:06:58experiment right away I got you to say

1:07:01do you fully volunteer to participate in

1:07:03this would you accept the role of

1:07:05teacher would you sit down in this chair

1:07:08would you shock him with this low

1:07:10voltage I've got you to agree that I'm

1:07:13the kind of person that's willing to

1:07:15shock someone for an experiment within

1:07:16the first two minutes MH and they don't

1:07:19talk about that they they kind of tend

1:07:20to say the whole experiment is about

1:07:22Authority but I don't think it's all

1:07:25authority I think a lot of it is novelty

1:07:27and they don't talk about that ever in

1:07:29the these Recaps of the study but if you

1:07:32volunteer for that experiment you're

1:07:34driving on a campus youve probably not

1:07:36been on going into a building you've

1:07:38never been to meeting a guy in a lab

1:07:40coat that you've never met and another

1:07:42guy you've never met in a room that

1:07:43you've never met sat in front of a

1:07:44machine you've never seen reading a quiz

1:07:46that you've never read in your entire

1:07:48life all of these things brand new the

1:07:52number one thing that generates focus in

1:07:55the Alan brain this is dog you name it

1:07:59is

1:08:01novelty so our ancestors they're walking

1:08:04past a bush every day of their life and

1:08:07one day Sun's about to set and a stick

1:08:09snaps behind that bush that's novelty

1:08:13that's an unexpected piece of

1:08:14information new information or is it

1:08:17unexpected yeah what's your definition

1:08:18of novelty here novelty is my brain is

1:08:22expecting certain things to happen I'm

1:08:24going to walk past this bush just like

1:08:26I've done before I have kind of a script

1:08:27for running things and something happens

1:08:30that breaks that script of what I am

1:08:32predicting about the world does that

1:08:35make sense yeah any kind of novelty

1:08:37generates Focus so the four things that

1:08:40we can manipulate inside of a human

1:08:42brain uh spells out the word fate so the

1:08:46four ways to manipulate or influence a

1:08:50mammal and this is human dog you name it

1:08:55is through Focus

1:08:58Authority

1:09:00tribe and

1:09:02emotion those are the four things that a

1:09:05dog could feel if you're looking at a

1:09:06dog training video you're

1:09:09watching let's say you're binge watching

1:09:11three seasons of dog whisperer with

1:09:13Caesar Milan you're seeing him redirect

1:09:15Focus establish Authority show contact

1:09:18with the tribe and praise the dog when

1:09:21the dog's doing well Focus Authority

1:09:23tribe and emotion that's how we train

1:09:26animals it's also how an infomercial

1:09:28gets you to buy something they grab your

1:09:31focus they show you here's

1:09:33a a million people who've already bought

1:09:36it so far they all have these five-star

1:09:38reviews everybody in your neighborhood's

1:09:40doing it or all these people across the

1:09:41United States are doing it they're

1:09:42getting success and all of their friends

1:09:45love them because of that success now we

1:09:46get emotion and they show it visually

1:09:49they don't just say it they're showing

1:09:51this visual images to show the mammal

1:09:54brain the f Focus Authority tribe and

1:09:56emotion that spells fate I was thinking

1:09:58about a lot of like um fizzy drink ads

1:10:02in the Su in the sunshine in the summer

1:10:04and you see you know like the you hear

1:10:06the sound like as they like break it

1:10:08open there's people there I guess that's

1:10:10the tribe having a great time and I was

1:10:13just struggling with the authority part

1:10:15in that context of those ads you see for

1:10:17like a fizzy drink brand I think the

1:10:19authority would be the on screen

1:10:21presence or brand recognition okay or

1:10:24could be a celebrity or something yeah

1:10:27and this is coming from a tribal leader

1:10:30as if our ancestors didn't listen to a

1:10:31tribal leader you don't live very long

1:10:35in your work you talk about how to win

1:10:36an argument and when I say win an

1:10:38argument I don't really mean an argument

1:10:39I mean more like you know me and my

1:10:41girlfriend are having a conversation

1:10:43yeah and I want to get to a good

1:10:46resolution what are the things I should

1:10:48definitely not

1:10:49do calling out little

1:10:52points that any kind of in correct

1:10:55information we wait until the end we

1:10:57save it okay so if I hear if I'm in an

1:11:00argument with someone and they're

1:11:01calling me out for doing something I

1:11:03clearly didn't do I'll wait I want to

1:11:05wait why because they get diffused now

1:11:08we want them to get that out

1:11:11first but right away as soon as possible

1:11:13in any argument like this I want to

1:11:15establish

1:11:17like do we have a similar Common Ground

1:11:20do we have what common ground do we

1:11:23share and do we want a similar outcome

1:11:25and I might even ask that question be

1:11:26like really quick do we both want the

1:11:29same thing from from this discussion I

1:11:31would never call it an

1:11:33argument so one the moment that we

1:11:36redirect

1:11:37on I this is the outcome I want instead

1:11:39of I need to win an argument because

1:11:41when we're in a fight we tend to think I

1:11:44intellectually need to conquer this

1:11:46conversation and I need to be right and

1:11:49if I can be right that means I was right

1:11:53not winning an argument doesn't mean you

1:11:54were right before before or right after

1:11:57but it's like what is the ideal outcome

1:11:59for both of us and I would stop in a

1:12:00business negotiation or whatever what's

1:12:02ideal for both of us we both want this

1:12:05same thing and the ideal outcome for you

1:12:08is this the ideal outcome for me is this

1:12:10and I think there's some Middle Ground

1:12:12here and it would be the same thing in a

1:12:14relationship if anything started

1:12:16spinning out of control the first thing

1:12:18I'm going to think is I'm going to

1:12:21hear what's not being said so if my wife

1:12:26was

1:12:27saying you don't even need to call me

1:12:29you don't call me anyway when you're on

1:12:31these business trips I never get phone

1:12:32calls do you think she is worried that

1:12:36her phone isn't ringing or she's worried

1:12:37that she's not being appreciated and and

1:12:40not feeling loved

1:12:43so men especially will will tend to say

1:12:47well let's let's open these facts really

1:12:48quick pull your phone out I'm going to

1:12:50show you some Miss calls right now it's

1:12:52not about the calls I need to hear

1:12:54what's underneath the statements that

1:12:56someone is saying you need to hear

1:12:58between the lines just like a behavior

1:13:00profiler so what is the what's the

1:13:03emotion that's starting here is it anger

1:13:06is it loneliness is it feeling

1:13:08unappreciated I need to understand what

1:13:10the emotion is behind what someone's

1:13:12saying and address that and never

1:13:15address exactly what people are saying

1:13:17to try to win an argument I just posted

1:13:20a video on YouTube U three days ago of

1:13:24it was called the n narcissist off

1:13:26switch and it was how to disarm any

1:13:30narcissist and there were these very

1:13:32specific methods but the the biggest

1:13:35method of all was to always think about

1:13:38what they're are using to get out of you

1:13:41so if I'm in an argument is someone

1:13:43using fear obligation or guilt and that

1:13:47acronym spells

1:13:49fog so am I going to get in trouble or

1:13:52can I recognize when somebody is using

1:13:55fear obligation and guilt and if someone

1:13:58is doing any of those things I want to

1:14:00call it out in a non-confrontational way

1:14:03so let's say

1:14:04um you give me some line about like if

1:14:07you don't do this I'm going to have to

1:14:08work 19 hours next week so it's never

1:14:12about the hours and it's now it's guilt

1:14:14right M I could say Stephen

1:14:17it maybe you didn't mean to but it

1:14:20sounded like you wanted me to feel

1:14:22guilty about me working next week and I

1:14:24know know that you're a good person I

1:14:26don't think you meant it that way so I

1:14:28will absolutely call out any fear

1:14:30obligation or guilt always but I'll call

1:14:33it out in a way that says maybe you

1:14:35didn't mean this but it sounded like

1:14:38this is what you were saying right here

1:14:40and I always want to use that word where

1:14:42it's non-confrontational and I want to

1:14:44give them an out so in interrogation

1:14:47training we always call this the golden

1:14:49bridge in The Art of War they say give

1:14:51your opponent a golden bridge on which

1:14:54they can can Retreat mhm so they can

1:14:57Retreat across this golden bridge and

1:14:59trap them in a corner yeah so we give

1:15:01them an out that's beautiful so maybe

1:15:03you didn't mean this and I always want

1:15:05to think about going back to that what

1:15:07is the hidden feeling or fear that's

1:15:10behind what they're saying they're

1:15:12scared of something they're scared of

1:15:14losing a deal they're scared of losing

1:15:15money they're scared of looking a

1:15:18certain way they're scared of what the

1:15:20people in the room are going to think so

1:15:22where is the hidden fear in someone's

1:15:24argument any anytime you're in an

1:15:25argument there is a level of concealed

1:15:28fear and just 30 40 seconds you can find

1:15:32that and a lot of people teach this as a

1:15:35tactic but just stopping and looking at

1:15:38a person after they do that in an

1:15:40argument is so incredibly powerful just

1:15:43stopping and looking at them yeah so

1:15:46like say you made that statement to me

1:15:48about I'm G to have to work 19 hours

1:15:49next

1:15:51week the moment that I stop it lessens

1:15:54the power

1:15:55of that statement because I'm not

1:15:57stopping as a tactic I'm choosing to

1:16:00stop because I want to process what you

1:16:01are saying and that helps people to do

1:16:04that because it feels less awkward as if

1:16:06I'm doing a tactic I'm doing that thing

1:16:09but I'm just pausing because I'm going

1:16:11to actually reflect on what you just

1:16:13said and I'm going to use that time for

1:16:14just a minute I might look away I might

1:16:17as soon as you're done talking I might

1:16:21say and I might just take a moment and

1:16:25say Stephen it's maybe I heard this

1:16:28wrong and go right into that so that

1:16:30long pause is so effective in

1:16:32conversation especially when it's

1:16:33meaningful and it's not a tactic what is

1:16:37the most important thing we haven't

1:16:38talked about that we should have as it

1:16:40especially as it relates to what most

1:16:41people ask you about and they're most

1:16:42interested in well what is one thing

1:16:45that no one's ever asked you on a

1:16:47podcast what is one thing no one's ever

1:16:48ask me

1:16:50yeah people don't really ask me stuff

1:16:52well who are you and what is your

1:16:54mission

1:16:55oh you're doing something on me I'm not

1:16:57doing something unless you were doing

1:16:59something to me I would love to

1:17:02know and why don't you answer that and

1:17:04I'll break down the hidden statements

1:17:07that you're going to reveal about your

1:17:09personality okay uh who am I

1:17:13uh uh I'm a podcaster I'm an

1:17:17entrepreneur I'm an investor I'm a

1:17:20boyfriend and what's my mission

1:17:25H it's to pursue my potential and to

1:17:27follow my curiosity and to see what

1:17:30happens all right yeah

1:17:34so that's a great answer but you went

1:17:37deeply into who you are as a person so

1:17:39the first thing you did is look up and

1:17:41to your right yeah then you looked up to

1:17:43your left then up into the center so

1:17:45that when your eyes are moving in

1:17:46multiple directions is called a trans

1:17:48derivational search so I'm looking in

1:17:50different file cabinets that are inside

1:17:52my head yeah and then then you talked

1:17:55about some of the labels that you wore

1:17:57yeah and podcaster was first but you

1:18:00mentioned boyfriend so I know what's

1:18:02important to you so like the podcast you

1:18:04don't say I'm a TV star but most people

1:18:07would identify you as as a TV star but

1:18:09it wasn't important to you yeah it's not

1:18:11important to me right yeah so you could

1:18:13hear what's important to people

1:18:15interesting and then the mission was not

1:18:17about other people it was about like how

1:18:20can I make myself better you may be

1:18:23doing that to enrich other people's Liv

1:18:25but you didn't say I have a podcast so I

1:18:28can

1:18:29benefit 10 million are you about to hit

1:18:3110 million yeah it's interesting because

1:18:33I actually my brain like it was right

1:18:37there to say that and then I thought

1:18:39it's just not the nature of the truth

1:18:42like the truth is I started this in my

1:18:44bedroom and I always think about the

1:18:46fact that when I did it for three years

1:18:47no one was listening so my mission when

1:18:49I was doing it was genuinely because I

1:18:52really loved it yeah it wasn't like I'm

1:18:53going to change the world and it's so

1:18:55tempting sometimes to like add that on

1:18:57like I want to change the world and I

1:18:59just don't I don't believe that's why

1:19:01most people start things and continue

1:19:03when no one's listening yeah I think

1:19:05it's it's usually something more selfish

1:19:07does that make sense yeah you started

1:19:09something and you were passionate about

1:19:11the thing itself enjoyed the thing yeah

1:19:14yeah yeah I love that that was a

1:19:19licitation oh okay what you just did

1:19:21then well three I think I did three

1:19:23layers okay

1:19:25but it's very very genuine and a lot of

1:19:28people get to the subscriber thing I'm I

1:19:31think I'll hit a million in a week or

1:19:33two which is a huge milestone for me I

1:19:35never thought I would have a million

1:19:38but that was never important on your

1:19:41main channel on uh the behavior panel

1:19:44it's me and three other Behavior

1:19:46profilers ah yes that's incredible yeah

1:19:49it's amazing licitation that was a

1:19:52elicitation good job

1:19:56so we just record zooms don't edit them

1:20:00at all I've seen it I know I'm I was

1:20:02just trying to meiss it so

1:20:05sloppy so you sorry you were doing like

1:20:07a read of me you said I said podcaster I

1:20:09said entrepreneur I said invester and

1:20:11then I said I do it to like I think I

1:20:13said um so your gos curiosity and then I

1:20:18was the other one it was like it was

1:20:19about my potential that's what I think

1:20:21about a lot like pursue my potential and

1:20:23follow my curiosity yeah

1:20:25see what happens so potential curiosity

1:20:28what would I see there so I'm a

1:20:29podcaster I did this for passion I want

1:20:31my I want to fulfill my potential am I

1:20:34seeing I'm not seeing

1:20:36acceptance I'm not seeing that you need

1:20:38approval from me to do anything so it's

1:20:41about your personal level of

1:20:43significance like do I make a difference

1:20:46but not to other people but you still

1:20:48want people to acknowledge that you are

1:20:49Reaching Your Potential you are doing

1:20:52what you say you're going to do you're

1:20:53relying on your girlfriend so we're

1:20:55talking about a little bit of a group

1:20:57but all of what you're saying is about

1:20:59significance so when I say like you make

1:21:01a tremendous difference in people's

1:21:03lives and you're really enriching other

1:21:04people you're doing exactly what you're

1:21:06born to

1:21:09do it hits harder than if I said lots of

1:21:13people appreciate you and you're in so

1:21:15many great Social Circles and you're

1:21:17like the center of attention in room

1:21:20yeah see that little Grimace yeah but

1:21:25other people who are like the more

1:21:26approval group focused people when I say

1:21:29like I can tell like you're the center

1:21:30of all your groups of friends and

1:21:31everybody comes to you for advice you

1:21:33seem like one of those people which is

1:21:35an elicitation statement by itself as

1:21:37well so you can tell that if I used

1:21:42anything that didn't fit your psychology

1:21:44it feels weird yeah and if a

1:21:46salesperson's doing that they do it by

1:21:49accident and they say oh this is a

1:21:51numbers game because I don't I I use

1:21:54this script that I have I kind of follow

1:21:57this script pretty Loosely and I close

1:21:59of 41% or whatever it

1:22:01is in reality if you changed how you

1:22:05communicate based on the sub parts of

1:22:08that person's psychology which are on

1:22:10public display and they're private

1:22:12thoughts but they're very public if you

1:22:14know how to listen to what people are

1:22:15saying and understand what people are

1:22:17saying you can put that out and it

1:22:19changes how you speak it changes how you

1:22:21communicate how you close a sale how you

1:22:24get somebody to do something Everything

1:22:26Changes the moment you're able to

1:22:28profile a human being and understand who

1:22:30they are a little bit deeper and if you

1:22:32know the needs if I know that

1:22:35your need is significance I

1:22:37automatically know what one of your

1:22:39fears and some of your biggest fears are

1:22:41feeling insignificant feeling like you

1:22:44could have made a difference but you

1:22:45didn't make any difference like you

1:22:46didn't leave any footprint in the world

1:22:48like you didn't fulfill what you meant

1:22:50what you wanted

1:22:51to and any any need that I can identify

1:22:55automatically reveals some fears and if

1:22:58I understand fears I can also lead

1:23:01behavior that way as

1:23:03well I was thinking through the context

1:23:05of being like a CEO or manager of

1:23:09teams um this is I guess this is why

1:23:12it's so important to know the different

1:23:14types of people you have in your teams

1:23:16and also I used to work on phones doing

1:23:18Telly sales and you did yes for many

1:23:22years I when I was 16 worked at Everest

1:23:25in Plymouth which was uh windows and

1:23:27doors and conservatories and artificial

1:23:29grass and then when I went to Manchester

1:23:31when I was a little bit older for

1:23:32University before dropping out I um

1:23:35worked at Swinton car insurance I worked

1:23:38at a bunch of places I worked at Fusion

1:23:39studi selling like uh photography

1:23:42vouchers I did uh Facebook ad sales on

1:23:45the phone back in the day wow lots of

1:23:48lots of uh Telly sales experience and I

1:23:51was just wondering because in those

1:23:52moments you call someone out the blue or

1:23:54they call you you asking for car

1:23:55insurance and you don't have a big

1:23:57window of time necessarily to figure out

1:24:00what kind of person they are not at all

1:24:01so how do you go about then you go back

1:24:04to the Fate model so one of the sales

1:24:07teams I recently

1:24:09trained and I'm not on a confidentiality

1:24:11agreement but one of the things when

1:24:13they call people up out of the blue is

1:24:16they pretend like their dog just knocked

1:24:18a drink over on their computer right as

1:24:21that person answers the phone and

1:24:22they're like oh my God I'm so sorry hold

1:24:23on one second and they're cleaning this

1:24:26up and they're explaining like we just

1:24:28got this new dog she knocked this coffee

1:24:29over I'm really sorry person doesn't

1:24:31even know who they are yet but they so

1:24:34novel and interesting that they stay on

1:24:36the phone 70% longer just because of the

1:24:40spilled coffee and the person saying I'm

1:24:42so sorry this is embarrassing making

1:24:44this admission of I'm a little bit

1:24:45embarrassed on the phone they stay on

1:24:47the phone longer because novelty

1:24:49captured that mamalian

1:24:51Focus interesting and then if they're on

1:24:54the phone a little bit longer you can

1:24:55get to know them a little bit better and

1:24:57understand what kind of person they are

1:24:58and better adjust to yeah make sense and

1:25:02then when you're saying I'm so sorry

1:25:03this is really embarrassing the other

1:25:05person most people are going to be like

1:25:06no it's fine it's fine I don't even know

1:25:08who you are yeah we haven't even got to

1:25:10know each other

1:25:12yet is there something that you see most

1:25:14frequent that's deficient in sales

1:25:16pitches when you're training sales

1:25:18people is there like one particular

1:25:19thing that's typically most

1:25:21deficient that they're not doing there's

1:25:23a few okay but slowness is a big one

1:25:28Authority is lacking and confidence in

1:25:31in what that person is

1:25:33selling and going off of a script and

1:25:37this is the biggest one any kind of

1:25:40script automatically tells our brain so

1:25:43like when's the last time you got you

1:25:45get telemarketer calls to your phone

1:25:47every once in a while once in a while

1:25:48yeah yeah I do too and I'll answer it

1:25:52and the moment that it sounds like

1:25:53somebody going oh hi Mr Hughes this is

1:25:57blank from blank company my brain knows

1:26:01what a sales call sounds like and

1:26:03instantly checks out of the conversation

1:26:05instantaneously even if I didn't want to

1:26:08do it my brain's already starting to

1:26:10shut this guy out of my life because it

1:26:13sounds like everything else I've ever

1:26:14heard so since our brain is so good at

1:26:17making apps I know because of just

1:26:21knowing Neuroscience if I'm calling and

1:26:24I sound like a salesperson or I sound

1:26:26like something you've heard before

1:26:28you're done you're going to get off the

1:26:30phone as fast as possible if something

1:26:32happens that makes you think whoa this

1:26:34is different your brain is going to pay

1:26:36more attention and I don't mean knocking

1:26:38a Starbucks over across your laptop I

1:26:40mean how can I make my sales calls not

1:26:43sound like every other call that exists

1:26:47I was victim of a phone call that was

1:26:50clearly listening to your work because

1:26:52the guy called me and said

1:26:55hi this is a sales call and you can hang

1:26:57up now if you're not interested but if

1:26:59you are willing to hear me out I just

1:27:01want 30 seconds and the fact that they

1:27:04offered me the opportunity to hang up I

1:27:06for some reason appreciated it and I

1:27:09gave them the time and I remember I was

1:27:11like really busy I was on my way to a

1:27:12podcast recording and just the fact that

1:27:13he' gone you can hang up now this just

1:27:14gonna be honest this is a sales call

1:27:16yeah he gave you

1:27:17autonomy so I was like okay what are you

1:27:21selling then he told me about some

1:27:23social media soft or whatever but I just

1:27:25thought it was really smart cuz you're

1:27:26right within seconds I'm trying to

1:27:28figure out if this is like all the

1:27:29others yeah and we I guess we can do the

1:27:32same in our emails in fact the co CEO

1:27:35and COO of my media company that I hired

1:27:38sent me an email in the first line of

1:27:40the email they didn't even she's

1:27:42listening now Cristiana and Georgie they

1:27:44didn't even like introduce themselves

1:27:46they

1:27:47said um like straight to the point no

1:27:51habituation filter

1:27:54and it's interesting it's an interesting

1:27:55open align because the word habituation

1:27:57filter is something I talk about in my

1:27:58book so they' kind of like tickled my

1:28:01ego a little bit as well I think because

1:28:03it says I've read your book yeah and

1:28:05they went straight to the point and it

1:28:06took cut me off guard and and got more

1:28:09focused of course yeah they have the job

1:28:11now they work here so and even the

1:28:13subject line was like oh that was their

1:28:15introduction email to you yeah that was

1:28:17the first ever email yeah that's

1:28:19brilliant cuz it's I don't think people

1:28:21realize this unless you've been in a

1:28:22situation where you're like like working

1:28:24in recruitment looking at thousands of

1:28:26emails but we when I used to really run

1:28:29the recruitment inbox because I'm just

1:28:30obsessed with the recruitment we have we

1:28:32have 35,000 email emails in there and

1:28:35I'm going through there at speed and I'm

1:28:37looking

1:28:39for what I would call exclusionary

1:28:42factors and inclusionary factors what I

1:28:44mean by that is factors to immediately

1:28:46exclude this email yeah and factors to

1:28:49immediately include this email within

1:28:52three seconds to read later to read

1:28:53later

1:28:55read later or just it another and the

1:28:57exclusionary is they're all just surface

1:28:59things that you typically get from

1:29:01people who typically do a certain thing

1:29:04and that's I mean that's also why I

1:29:05think about marketing newsletters if the

1:29:08newsletter looks designed the studies

1:29:10show the open rate the retention rate

1:29:12the click-through rate is significantly

1:29:14worse if it's a beautifully designed

1:29:16email because people see it as a sales

1:29:18email yeah the emails you get every day

1:29:20that are important are not designed yeah

1:29:23and so we we newsletter we

1:29:25again the email newsletter provider was

1:29:28saying oh you can use all these

1:29:29templates but then we're like no no if

1:29:31we use a template no one reads the thing

1:29:34which is again counterintuitive but it's

1:29:35the same psychology right it is like

1:29:37I've increased our our open rate with

1:29:39emails by not capitalizing the first

1:29:43word of the subject line because it

1:29:45looks like it's overly edited and we've

1:29:50switched from here's a list of 13

1:29:54uh ways that we might have failed in

1:29:572013 with this ad campaign or whatever

1:29:59or this uh marketing campaign and I just

1:30:02Chang the subject line to this

1:30:05sucked and it just it did so much better

1:30:08because it looks like something a friend

1:30:10would send you it looks like something

1:30:13you'd get from a relative or

1:30:15something and that's that habituation

1:30:17filter at play just trying

1:30:19to phase out things that

1:30:22are I like that not novel I think I read

1:30:25it I read I was reading studies about

1:30:27habituation and how we just habituate to

1:30:28things and I was looking into um how

1:30:32that happens in both what we see but

1:30:33also in what we hear so the studies were

1:30:36talking about if you say a word like

1:30:38Father father father father father

1:30:39father father father eventually it's

1:30:41just becomes a sound in your head yeah

1:30:42because your brain is taking away

1:30:44cognitive resource it's no longer

1:30:45thinking about the meaning and it's just

1:30:47hearing the sound but then there's other

1:30:49words that habituate slower like warning

1:30:51warning warning warning warning warning

1:30:54warning warning because those words are

1:30:55like emotional and anyway um I think a

1:30:58lot about it in the context of content

1:30:59creation Mr Beast is the Great Master

1:31:02of beating your habituation filter like

1:31:06with how he starts his videos yeah

1:31:08screaming in your face like yeah 500

1:31:10people in that Circle million pounds but

1:31:12I think he he defeats the habituation

1:31:14filter for a certain type of

1:31:17viewer because I I see any video that

1:31:20looks like that I'm off within the first

1:31:22second I'm done done because they all

1:31:25look the same now yeah that's an

1:31:27interesting observation so I think the

1:31:29type of viewer is very important because

1:31:32like during this video when people are

1:31:34watching this conversation you're not

1:31:36going to have 10 seconds of b-roll of

1:31:38people walking in slow motion through an

1:31:40airport there's not going to be you're

1:31:42not overdesigning stuff and the people

1:31:45who listen to this show are way

1:31:47different than the people who are

1:31:49watching Mr Beast drop a Ferrari onto a

1:31:52a mattress m and blow it up they're very

1:31:56very different so I think the

1:31:57habituation filters change based on what

1:32:00we consume and what we appreciate

1:32:03interesting because we're all making

1:32:05we're all doing sort of quick prejudices

1:32:07about everything so shortcuts yeah yeah

1:32:11I'm going to develop as many shortcuts

1:32:12as I can to

1:32:14save cognitive load brain

1:32:17power at my company flight Studio which

1:32:19is part of my bigger company flight

1:32:21group we're constantly looking for ways

1:32:22to build deeper connection with our

1:32:24audiences whether that's a new show a

1:32:26product or a project it's why I launched

1:32:29the conversation cards I've relied on

1:32:30Shopify before who's a sponsor of

1:32:32today's podcast and I'll be using them

1:32:34again for the next big launch which

1:32:36we'll hear about soon and I use them

1:32:37because of how easy it is to set up an

1:32:39online store that reaches all of you no

1:32:41matter where you are in the world with

1:32:43Shopify the usual pain points of

1:32:45launching products online Disappear

1:32:46Completely no matter the size of your

1:32:49business Shopify has everything you need

1:32:51to make your business go to the next

1:32:53level and better connect with your

1:32:54customers all over the world to say

1:32:56thank you to all of you for listening to

1:32:57my show we're giving you a trial which

1:33:00is just $1 a month you can sign up by

1:33:03going to shopify.com

1:33:05Bartlet that's shopify.com Bartlet or

1:33:09find the link in the description

1:33:12below what is the the most popular thing

1:33:15people come to you and talk to you about

1:33:17and ask you that we haven't talked about

1:33:19today I think one of the most common in

1:33:22there is

1:33:24how can I change my discipline that's

1:33:28the number one thing that I get from

1:33:29people how do I level up discipline on

1:33:31this Authority checklist

1:33:33and getting to a point where they're

1:33:36modifying their discipline changes their

1:33:38confidence because I always talk about

1:33:40discipline is kind of the gateway drug

1:33:42to everything else in authority and it's

1:33:45the gateway to composure for sure but

1:33:49getting your discipline modified is one

1:33:51of the the fastest ways to make

1:33:53everything else change and how do I fix

1:33:57my discipline if I'm an ill disciplined

1:34:00person understanding what discipline is

1:34:02is the most critical element and I

1:34:05Define this differently than most people

1:34:07so I Define discipline

1:34:09as your ability to prioritize the needs

1:34:13of your future

1:34:15self ahead of your own present self and

1:34:19that's it that's all the discipline is

1:34:21I'm prioritizing the needs of future me

1:34:25you're trying to think of

1:34:26a I was think no I was thinking of two

1:34:29scenarios the scenario one is I go home

1:34:32tonight right because I go to sleep I

1:34:34get to bed early and there's this other

1:34:36thing I'm thinking about doing after

1:34:37this which is going to the gym yeah and

1:34:38I'm like I was just as you're saying

1:34:40that I was thinking both help future me

1:34:43yeah I was PR I was like which one is

1:34:45disciplined I think they would both be

1:34:47discipline okay

1:34:49so the moment that we start

1:34:53understanding that if I could just make

1:34:54decisions that are prioritizing future

1:34:56me then we go back to where am I getting

1:34:58my dopamine from and I want past tense

1:35:02me to be a source of dopamine for

1:35:05present tense me because most of us look

1:35:09back with regret I shouldn't have drank

1:35:11that much I shouldn't have mouthed off

1:35:13at the family reunion you know whatever

1:35:15it is I shouldn't have

1:35:17overslept if I can start looking

1:35:20backwards with gratitude that's the

1:35:22fastest way to make discipline dopamine

1:35:25generating so the tricks are to start

1:35:28small so like when I go to bed at night

1:35:31I will pop open the little

1:35:34curig uh coffee thing and stick the

1:35:36thing in there put a cup under there

1:35:38everything's like ready to go so when I

1:35:39wake up in the morning I just go bam and

1:35:41everything's ready I'll get my clothes

1:35:43out everything kind of lined up ready to

1:35:45put on for the next day so I'm I'm

1:35:47lowering the threshold of how much

1:35:49attention I'm spending so I'm going to

1:35:51set my life up in everying single way

1:35:54that I possibly can is if I were a

1:35:55butler for future me so when I wake up

1:35:59in the morning all this stuff set out my

1:36:01laundries laid out my checklist for what

1:36:03I need to do to the uh for the day all

1:36:06the stuff I'm got to get on a plane is

1:36:08all laid out by the back door I can grab

1:36:10it and jump in the car everything that I

1:36:12could possibly do to make my future self

1:36:14go oh man that's awesome and Look

1:36:17Backwards with gratitude I'm going to do

1:36:19it I'll take a $100 biller maybe a few

1:36:23hundred s every spring or summer and

1:36:26I'll stick them in the a jacket pocket

1:36:29that I'm not going to use until the

1:36:30winter and I'll forget about it and in

1:36:32the winter I'm I'm looking and now I

1:36:34become a source of dopamine past tense

1:36:36me is becoming a source of dopamine for

1:36:39present me that forces me to look in the

1:36:42future along with like printing that old

1:36:45me photo and putting it all over the

1:36:47house but everything that I can possibly

1:36:50do to make myself look backwards with

1:36:53gratitude is what I'm going to start

1:36:55doing but you have to start small it's

1:36:58like just going overboard is going to be

1:37:00crazy and even writing a little Post-It

1:37:04note to yourself and sticking it in a

1:37:06jacket or a maybe a dress shoe that

1:37:09you're not going to wear for a few

1:37:10months it means so much to find that and

1:37:14it's it's from you it's not from a loved

1:37:16one you did it so you're looking

1:37:19backwards with like wow that's amazing

1:37:21so you're now getting in love and

1:37:23sending gratitude backwards which

1:37:25automatically means that what's going

1:37:27forwards is concern and Care the moment

1:37:31I'm always looking back with gratitude

1:37:34the concern is always going forward in

1:37:35the future and the concern for present

1:37:39goes away and I'm gonna I'm going to

1:37:41push that concern to the right out in

1:37:44the future people struggle even with the

1:37:46small things right like getting because

1:37:49yeah it's funny because I watched a

1:37:50video last night about a lady that went

1:37:52to YouTube and started her like journey

1:37:55of weight loss and whatever and she was

1:37:57very I think she was 400 pounds or

1:37:59something and she was trying to get down

1:38:01and in the video you what some people

1:38:03will know who I'm referring to over the

1:38:05space of a year or two years she

1:38:07actually just gains weight so she gets

1:38:09to I think five 500 pound or something

1:38:11and as I was watching it you're watching

1:38:15someone who's saying I want to change my

1:38:17life but then is coming on every day and

1:38:20saying I've just gained three pounds

1:38:21I've just gained another three pounds

1:38:22and there's almost this this like

1:38:24visible dissonance that you're observing

1:38:26between this person saying they want to

1:38:27change their life but clearly the

1:38:29actions that they're then taking are

1:38:31like are different to that and many

1:38:34people can relate to that feeling of I

1:38:36want to be this person I mean we're

1:38:37coming up to like we for anyone that

1:38:38doesn't know we're recording this in

1:38:40December so New Year's resolutions

1:38:41around the corner everyone's going to

1:38:43say to themselves who they want to

1:38:44become but it's easier said than done I

1:38:46think what seven8 8% 9% of New Year's

1:38:49resolutions will stick yeah so is is it

1:38:52just a case of stuff starting small or

1:38:54is there any other tricks to discipline

1:38:56that you can offer it's starting small

1:38:59and realizing that all of our lives are

1:39:01about habits not goals but what are the

1:39:04habits that make my goal a byproduct

1:39:06everything is about byproducts in your

1:39:08whole life whether you know it or not so

1:39:10instead of setting goals set like the

1:39:12byproduct what are the byproducts I want

1:39:14to have for this year and then what are

1:39:16the habits that make that up so what the

1:39:19big mistake most people make is they see

1:39:23somebody like you you go to the gym very

1:39:25often you probably eat really clean um I

1:39:29know you don't drink alcohol cuz I

1:39:30brought you a flask and gave it to your

1:39:32team but uh Bost they took it they did

1:39:37yeah

1:39:38so somebody who doesn't live a very

1:39:41disciplined life would look at you and

1:39:42say God I want to be like Stephen he's

1:39:44got all this discipline going to the gym

1:39:46but they don't understand that you going

1:39:48to the gym isn't discipline it's a

1:39:50habit so you're not like forcing

1:39:53yourself to go do something you're doing

1:39:55something that's a habit for you the

1:39:57discipline only is necessary you only

1:40:00need like a teaspoon of it at the very

1:40:02beginning to get this habit started so

1:40:04start micro habits first and then bigger

1:40:06habits so the discipline is not

1:40:09something that you should be seeing if

1:40:11you're seeing someone eat healthy and go

1:40:12to the gym do all the stuff you want to

1:40:14do those are habits and that person

1:40:17you're you're not seeing a discipline at

1:40:20work right there you're seeing a habit

1:40:22the discipline was just at the beginning

1:40:24and I think if more people knew that

1:40:26that you're just exercising a little

1:40:28discipline at the very beginning and

1:40:30then it's just that's just what you do

1:40:32it's like somebody who sees someone

1:40:35brushing their teeth every day like wow

1:40:37that's so much discipline it's just what

1:40:40we do it's a habit there's a interesting

1:40:42part of this

1:40:44um like habit equation you could say or

1:40:47like discipline equation which

1:40:48is the why

1:40:51part which is like why does this matter

1:40:53to you and is it important to get really

1:40:57clear on why this thing matters to you

1:40:58whether it's the gym or like because

1:41:01when I I was playing around with this

1:41:02discipline equation idea from my last

1:41:04book and the kind of conclusion I landed

1:41:06at was that to be disciplined you have

1:41:09to understand the reason why something

1:41:11matters to you you can say that in other

1:41:12words yeah um plus

1:41:16the psychological reinforcement you get

1:41:19from the pursuit of the thing minus the

1:41:22you could say

1:41:23the psychological or perceived cost of

1:41:25the pursuit of the thing so in the

1:41:27context of brushing your teeth I think I

1:41:29know why it matters right because if I

1:41:32don't then I have to go to the dentist

1:41:33my teeth fall out I look ugly whatever

1:41:34it might be yeah the is it rewarding and

1:41:37fun to do no not

1:41:39really and minus the cost of the pursuit

1:41:42it takes two minutes it's not that bad

1:41:44but when that Nets out the Y is stronger

1:41:48thankfully on net than the cost so the

1:41:50behavior happens yeah but the key part

1:41:52of this equation here is the Y part like

1:41:55it's not the key part but it's the

1:41:56central part is the Y part why does this

1:41:58thing matter to you yeah and in how much

1:42:03why like how big is the why yeah because

1:42:07if if the why is I need enjoyment in the

1:42:10present moment then no other why will be