Andrew Huberman: My Exact Routine To Optimize Brain & Body, I Do All Of These Every Day!

0:00Here's the diabolical thing. The risk of

0:02dying early if you have bright nights

0:04goes up immensely. There have been a lot

0:06of studies on people after 6 p.m. on

0:08devices getting artificial LED exposure.

0:11They live shorter lives. Cancer rates go

0:13[music] up. They're metabolically

0:14unhealthy. But here's the really scary

0:16thing. We have a generation of kids that

0:18are metabolically sick. [music] They

0:20cling to their iPads. They're on

0:21devices. But the problem is most things

0:23are designed to make people do [music]

0:25less of what's good for them. And we

0:26don't talk about this enough. And

0:28Andrew, you're one of the most trusted

0:29voices in health today. And we've waited

0:32many, many years for this protocols, an

0:34operating manual for the human body.

0:36These 10 protocols are well established.

0:38They're the ones that are going to move

0:40the needle the most in terms of one's

0:41mental health, physical health, and

0:43performance. Okay, so let's get into it.

0:45So protocol number one, you want [music]

0:46to get sunlight because exposure each

0:48day to the skin, increases testosterone

0:50and estrogen in both women and men, and

0:52is important for libido. [music]

0:53And then the second, and this is really

0:55key, is to reduce stress fast. And I'll

0:56explain how to do that in a moment. And

0:58then number three, working out with

0:59weights for 45 minutes, taking your sets

1:01near to failure. It will triple or

1:03quadruple your cortisol levels. But a

1:04lot of people have been told, don't

1:05spike your cortisol. It's the stress

1:07hormone, but it's a preparation hormone.

1:09You're preparing for adversity, but also

1:11great things. The next thing, and this

1:12is one of the most valuable skills. If

1:14you do it for 5 minutes per day, you

1:16will experience a significant

1:17improvement in mental and physical

1:18health. And then sleeping on your side,

1:20very important for [music] offsetting

1:21dementia, getting rid of bags under your

1:23eyes. But Stephen, the number one thing

1:25that you need to know about is the

1:27moment I started, my life got so much

1:29better [music] and I really started to

1:31see what I could only describe as

1:32miracles. Andrew, I have this

1:34outstanding question that I have to ask

1:35you. You don't really talk in depth

1:36about supplements. I Oh, I do. I go ham.

1:39>> So, you can only do five for the rest

1:40[music] of your life.

1:40>> Oh gosh. I highly recommend getting a

1:47>> This is super interesting to me. My team

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2:39[music]

2:41Andrew Huberman, um, we've waited many,

2:44many years for this and now it has

2:47arrived. This is your long-awaited book

2:49called Protocols, an operating manual

2:51for the human body. And inside this

2:53book, I counted roughly 50 different

2:56protocols split across seven different

2:59areas. Um, sleep, exercise, stress

3:01control, nutrition, light, focus,

3:03motivation, and learning, and personal

3:05growth. You've written 10 of the

3:07protocols you want to focus on sharing

3:08today. Can I ask why did you choose

3:10those 10?

3:12They're the ones that are going to move

3:13the needle the most in terms of one's

3:16mental health, physical health, and

3:18quote unquote performance. Your life

3:20will be so much better if you do them.

3:22>> And do they cost a lot of money to do

3:23the 10 that you've picked?

3:25>> No, they could be done either at

3:26completely zero cost or on a existing

3:29budget.

3:29>> And do you do these 10 things

3:31>> every day?

3:32>> Every day.

3:32>> There's one on there that I don't do

3:34every single day. I take off one day per

3:36week, but every single day without fail.

3:38And when you wrote them, did you write

3:40them in order of sequencing?

3:42>> Yeah. Throughout the day, from from

3:43start to finish throughout because this

3:45is the other thing. Protocols synergize.

3:48They ratchet together. How well you

3:49slept last night is dictating how well

3:51you feel now.

3:52>> These are gears in a larger system. One

3:54moves, the other ones move. And while

3:57there is a place for pharmarmacology and

3:59supplements and things that you take,

4:01>> ultimately these gears fit together

4:03based on what you do.

4:04>> Okay. So, let's get into it. What was

4:05the first uh thing that you drew? cuz I

4:07saw there was a picture there.

4:08>> Okay, so in my unelegant drawing, but I

4:11I am a you know biologist, so we're

4:13allowed to do this. I mean, this is

4:14essentially a plot of where you wake up

4:16in the morning and then where you go to

4:17sleep at night, you know, and these are

4:19not hours of the day. These are the

4:21different protocols. 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9

4:2410. Okay, so um this line represents the

4:28healthy cortisol curve. Most people

4:30don't realize that, but you wake up

4:32because of a rise in cortisol. It's

4:33literally called the cortisol awakening

4:35response. If you've ever woken up 1

4:37minute before your alarm clock, it's

4:38because the cortisol awakening response

4:40is heavily entrainable, meaning it can

4:42be matched to external stimulant. You

4:45want this peak in cortisol as high as

4:47possible in the first 60 minutes of your

4:49day.

4:51Everyone thinks you want low cortisol,

4:53but here's the deal. High cortisol in

4:55the early part of your day is what

4:56provides for elevated mood, focus,

4:59attention, your ability to learn. It's

5:01also what establishes low cortisol in

5:04the afternoon and at night which is a

5:06requirement for falling and staying

5:08asleep.

5:09>> So this peak sets up this trough. So you

5:13want high morning cortisol, low

5:16nighttime cortisol. These represent

5:19melatonin, the hormone of sleepiness. As

5:21we know, if you slept the night before,

5:23then melatonin essentially is low at

5:25morning. And the dash line is adenosine,

5:27which is a downstream product of of the

5:29use of ATP in your cells. The more

5:31you're awake, the more activities you

5:32do, the more you think, adenosine builds

5:34up. That's why you get sleepy.

5:36[clears throat]

5:36>> So, what's very interesting is that when

5:38you spike your morning cortisol, and

5:40I'll explain how to do that in a moment.

5:42And you do that within the first hours

5:43of your day, you also establish a case

5:46where these little blips are stress,

5:49stressful text, stressful event, but

5:50they're brief. We always hear that

5:52cortisol is bad, but our ability to have

5:54big inflections in cortisol, stress out,

5:56and then they come back down to normal

5:58is very very good. If this peak was

6:01high, if this peak is not as high, and

6:04this is kind of a like a medium or or

6:06flat what they call a flattening of the

6:07cortisol curve, you see shorter

6:10lifespan, less recovery from every kind

6:12of illness, and and these stress bouts

6:14last a very long time because they're

6:16riding on a higher baseline. So if your

6:18morning cortisol level is lower or flat,

6:21>> right,

6:22>> then if I get that stressful text during

6:24the day, it will be a longer cortisol

6:27spike. More stress,

6:28>> bigger and longer.

6:29>> Oh wow.

6:30>> And not only that, but there's an

6:32indirect but very important interaction

6:34between cortisol and melatonin. Your

6:35sleepiness hormone doesn't come on and

6:37function as well.

6:39>> And so sleep gets very disrupted. So a

6:41lot of people think, "Oh, I don't want

6:42my morning cortisol high." And a lot of

6:44women in particular have been told,

6:45"Don't spike your cortisol. that's going

6:46to lead to excess visceral fat, moon

6:48face, etc. There's this a condition

6:50called Cushing syndrome, which is a

6:51massive overp production of cortisol.

6:54Very rare condition. I mean, it happens,

6:55but most people are not dealing with

6:57that, right? Most people's morning

6:59cortisol is too low and their afternoon

7:01and nighttime cortisol is too high.

7:02>> How do they know this stuff? Like, how

7:04do they test this?

7:05>> This healthy curve, as it's called, um,

7:07was measured through just consistent

7:09blood draws around the 24-hour cycle.

7:10And then it's been looked at in response

7:12to everything from caffeine to cold

7:14plunges to exercise to sunlight. And

7:17there's this very So protocol number one

7:20is hydrate. Your mind is exceedingly

7:23more sharp when you're well hydrated.

7:25And it actually helps boost your morning

7:27cortisol. There's a very interesting

7:29interaction between when the bladder

7:31being emptied as usually after people

7:33wake up, they use the the restroom, they

7:34urinate, and then hydrating. And there's

7:36an I'll talk about this a few times, but

7:38there's an ascending pathway along the

7:41vagus nerve that serves to wake up the

7:43brain. And part of that has to do with

7:44hydration first thing in the morning.

7:46You awake from bed to urinate in the

7:48middle of the night because of an

7:49arousal phenomenon of hydration and the

7:51bladder being full.

7:52>> When you say hydrate, do you mean

7:54electrolytes or just water?

7:55>> 16 to 32 ounces of good clean water is

7:57fine. If you want to add electrolytes,

7:59great.

7:59>> How much is that? Is that a cup or is

8:01that?

8:01>> Um, this is 16 ounces. Maybe 18 ounces.

8:04>> Okay. So, like a big a big mug. You want

8:06to consume about 80 ounces of water

8:08throughout your day. It's a lot, but you

8:09don't want to cons basically everything

8:11you want to do in the early part of the

8:12day, you want to do less in the evening

8:14part of your day. The next thing, and

8:16this is really key, it could have gone

8:17first, but you want to view sunlight or

8:1910,000 lux artificial light. I could

8:22spend 3 hours talking about this, but

8:23I'll keep it really brief. When you view

8:25sunlight, there's this beautiful

8:27phenomenon. It activates these

8:29melanopsin intrinsically photosensitive

8:30ganglen cells. You know, the major focus

8:33of my work for many, many years. So I'll

8:35resist saying more. They literally

8:37extend physical wires that we call axons

8:39into your hypothalamus. Your master

8:41circadian clock resides there. We call

8:42that your super chaismatic nucleus. And

8:45when you view low solar angle sunlight,

8:48sun low in the sky, there's an abundance

8:50of yes UV, but it's lower when it's low

8:53in the sky. You actually can look at the

8:54morning sun more easily than you can the

8:55overhead sun. Why? The morning sun looks

8:58more yellow, orange, or even some red

8:59tones

9:00>> compared to the overhead sky. Well, the

9:02light coming from the sky is the same,

9:04right? But the specific wavelengths of

9:07light, as we call them, that are coming

9:08from the sun when it's low in the sky

9:10are the optimal stimulus for these

9:12melanops and intrinsically

9:13photosensitive cells that tell your

9:15central clock it's time to wake up. The

9:17day is beginning. Okay. There's also

9:20something incredible that happens if you

9:22get bright light in your eyes in that

9:23first ideally 30 minutes but even 60

9:26minutes of your day which it there are

9:28two pathways by which your brain

9:30circadian clock wakes you up. One is it

9:33sends signals through peptides it

9:35releases and neural signals but it's

9:37able to activate what we call the HPA

9:39axis hypothalamus pituitary gland which

9:41is sort of hangs outside the brain and

9:43then adrenals you release adrenaline

9:46there's a unique window that passes

9:48after about an hour following waking

9:51where your supercismatic clock can

9:53trigger an alternate pathway that

9:55literally goes down your spinal column

9:57and triggers your adrenals to release

10:00additional cortisol. In fact, viewing

10:02sunlight in the first hour of your day

10:04takes this peak. Here's what it would

10:05look like if you didn't view bright

10:07light in the first hour of your day. It

10:10would be here, which is bad. And your

10:12stress responses then would be bigger

10:14and longer.

10:16This

10:17increase in cortisol is driven by

10:19viewing sunlight. Now, when I say

10:22sunlight, people say, especially in the

10:23UK, they'll say there's no sun where I

10:24live. Okay, this could easily see say

10:27daylight. Why? Because there's always

10:30daylight out. If you look at how bright

10:33it is on an overcast day in the middle

10:35of December, even in the UK at 8:00 a.m.

10:38versus midnight the night before, it's

10:41different.

10:42>> Mhm.

10:42>> You know, it's obvious when there's

10:44overcast skies, less of the long

10:46wavelength light, the oranges and reds

10:47are coming through. But you want

10:50daylight in your eyes in the first hours

10:51of your day. Go out on your balcony if

10:53that's all you can do. If you're in a

10:54car, roll down the window. It's not good

10:56to try and do this through a window or

10:57windshield. There's so much data showing

11:00that spiking your morning cortisol this

11:02way establishes low cortisol and high

11:05sleepiness hormones let's call them at

11:07night which is great buffers stress and

11:10moreover kickstarts your immune system

11:12to protect you against bacteria and

11:14viruses you can encounter during the day

11:16it is great for your metabolism mood

11:18ability to learn and on and on and in

11:20the book I explain a number of different

11:21ways how this peak relates to this

11:23trough if people are interested but if

11:26you don't have access to sunlight or

11:28daylight light. Having a using a 10,000

11:30lux artificial light can be very

11:31beneficial. These 10,000 lux lights have

11:34been shown to significantly

11:37offset the symptoms of seasonal

11:39effective disorder, etc. But what we're

11:41finding from this huge study from the UK

11:43bio bank is that you want bright days

11:46and you want dark nights and they're

11:49additive. So having bright days is great

11:51for your mental health and physical

11:52health along a huge number of

11:54parameters. Significantly improves them.

11:56But having dark, even if you were in dim

11:58light all day, making it dark at night,

12:01people are healthier. The risk of dying

12:03early, if you have bright nights, goes

12:05up immensely. And we don't talk about

12:07this enough. If you don't have access to

12:09enough daylight, like you wake up before

12:11the sun comes out and you're up for 2

12:12hours, let's say before the sun comes

12:14out. I highly recommend getting a 10,000

12:16lux artificial light.

12:17>> And last time we spoke, you took me

12:18outside after the conversation and you

12:20had an app on your phone,

12:21>> right? Light meter. I have no relation

12:23to the app, but I use it. And that is

12:25able to tell you how much lux of light

12:27you're getting at the moment.

12:28>> But it's additive. So one thing that's

12:29important to note is let's say you miss

12:31a day, right? The next day get outside

12:33for twice as long. How long should you

12:35do it on a very clear morning with the

12:37sun rising? And by the way, you don't

12:38need to see the sun cross the horizon.

12:40You can just wait till it's elevated but

12:42it's low in the sky. People who are

12:45concerned about UV damage should know

12:47that when the sun is low in the sky, the

12:48UV index is much lower. And there's a

12:51reason for that. It's a phenomenon

12:52called relay scattering. Sunrises and

12:55sunsets are very beautiful and colorful.

12:56When the sun's overhead, it's hard to

12:57look at. It's this big ball of light.

12:59It's so bright because you're getting

13:01all the wavelengths, the UV all the way

13:03out to the infrared coming at you in

13:05more or less equal intensities. When the

13:07sun is low in the sky, the UV is it's

13:10not completely scattered, but not as

13:13much of that is is reaching your eyes.

13:14Much lower risk of sunburn, much lower

13:16risk of eye damage, and so on. So,

13:18here's the diabolical thing. Your

13:20screens are not nearly bright enough to

13:23kickstart this increase in cortisol in

13:25the morning, but they are very capable

13:28of increasing your cortisol levels at

13:30night because the this low level of

13:32cortisol makes you vulnerable to big

13:35increases in cortisol. It's a little bit

13:36of a detail that I explain in the book,

13:38but

13:39>> I was going to say on this point, is it

13:40just exposing my eyes to the light or

13:42does my body need to be exposed to it?

13:44>> Great point. And one of the protocols in

13:46there, it's not one of the 10 I listed,

13:47is about the importance of getting

13:49sunlight on as much of your skin as

13:50possible as is socially appropriate. Uh,

13:53beautiful work from Glen Jeffy's lab at

13:55University College London. You know, I

13:56can believe this. They do a glucose

13:58tolerance test. So they fast people,

13:59they have them drink a glucose drink.

14:00They measure how fast a blood sugar

14:02rises. And if they shine red light, so

14:06long wavelength is red is long

14:08wavelength light

14:09>> like that. Like that.

14:10>> Yeah. Like this would be medium

14:11wavelength because it's yellow. A red

14:13would be um so this is probably I'm

14:15guessing somewhere between 500 and 600

14:18nanometers of light and red would be

14:20probably somewhere between 580 and 700

14:23and then infrared goes out further you

14:25know into the 800s and thousand. The sun

14:27emits all of those. Okay, so this is

14:29long wavelength light. Okay. So, they

14:31shine a long wavelength light on

14:33people's backs and they do the glucose

14:34tolerance test and and they observe a

14:37more than 25% reduction in the peak and

14:41they also look at the rate of rise of

14:42blood glucose. It's buffering blood

14:44glucose rise which we know is a good

14:45thing.

14:46>> Just to summarize, they shine red light

14:48on someone's back while they have a

14:49glucose shot and their glucose spike is

14:51lower.

14:52>> That's right. And you can do this onto

14:53bare skin or you can do it through a

14:54t-shirt. Turns out that these people's

14:56metabolism rose significantly. Why? How?

15:00Well, long wavelength light can actually

15:03go into and through your body. It can it

15:06gets absorbed and it can go about 8

15:08centimeters into the body. Red light

15:11wavelength light of infrared can pass

15:12all the way through the body. They show

15:14that beautifully in this study. So

15:16that's not good. No, it's fantastic

15:18because along the way it makes

15:20confirmational changes in the way that

15:22your mitochondria handle the electrons.

15:25Basically this long wavelength infrared

15:27light that comes from the sun. It's the

15:29heat that you feel from the sun or from

15:30a long wavelength light device allows is

15:34so amazing. It actually allows your

15:36mitochondria to to function more

15:39effectively, more efficiently. Now, it's

15:41not to say that short wavelength light,

15:43blues and greens and ultraviolet light

15:45are bad. We need ultraviolet light. We

15:47need it on our skin to make vitamin D.

15:49What you want is full spectrum balanced

15:51light, but not so much UV that you get a

15:54sunburn. And you don't want a lot of

15:56shortwavelength light in the absence of

15:58long wavelength light. Best way to do

16:00that, sunlight in the early and later

16:01part of the day because the UV index is

16:03low. You're getting the full spectrum.

16:06Indoor LED lights like this, which we

16:07all spend a lot of time under. There's

16:09now evidence from from Glen Jeffy's lab

16:11and others that it actually may damage

16:13the mitochondria. We talked about

16:15melatonin coming coming from the pineal

16:17gland that makes you sleepy at night.

16:18You also have melatonin in most all of

16:20the cells of your body. And there it

16:22doesn't make you sleepy. serves as an

16:24antioxidant but it's sort of captured

16:26and the way to liberate it is through

16:29long wavelength light. So you have a

16:30protective mechanism that's kicked on

16:32with long wavelength light that protects

16:34you protects you against the oxidative

16:36stress and damage to cells

16:38>> and this has many many positive effects.

16:41So Glenn's lab has done experiments

16:43where they literally take in a light

16:44like this and they have people look at

16:45it like this for one to three minutes a

16:48couple times a week. They look at people

16:50different ages, different eye

16:51conditions. He's a serious vision

16:53scientist, right? He's not he's not a

16:54biohacker. He's not he's has no interest

16:56in commercial products actually,

16:59although sometimes I wish he did. People

17:02over 40 who experience age related

17:04vision loss, we all do a little bit,

17:06experience improvements in vision when

17:08they do this simple thing. And why would

17:10that be? Well, it turns out that your

17:12photo receptors, which absorb light and

17:14convert it into electrical signals that

17:15allow you to see, are the most

17:17mitochondrial rich and metabolically

17:19active cells in your entire body. Now,

17:21biologists love to play this game where

17:23they go, "Your tongue is the most

17:25metabolically active." Then they go,

17:27"No, you're you." Everyone makes a claim

17:28on this. The photo receptors, my

17:30friends, are the most metabolically

17:32active cells in your entire body. So,

17:33they have a ton of mitochondria, and

17:36they need to protect themselves against

17:37the oxidative damage that comes with

17:39generating a bunch of downstream

17:41products from ATP. So, long wavelength

17:44light is what protects us in this. So

17:46you can see significant improvements in

17:47vision for people that view long

17:49wavelength light couple times a week.

17:51But only in people older than 40. And

17:53get this, only in people that do that in

17:56the first 3 hours of their day.

17:58>> What?

17:59>> Yes. Your eyes and your body and brain

18:01are not the same at this first third of

18:04your day versus this middle third of

18:05your day versus the last third of your

18:07day and at night. They're not. Your

18:10sensitivity to bright light causing bad

18:13effects on you after sundown increases.

18:16Not immediately, but it increases

18:18gradually. Your need for bright light in

18:20your eyes in the early part of the of

18:22the day is immense. You need this. You

18:26you want this. And if you miss a day,

18:27get out the next day and view some more

18:29light. You asked, will light to other

18:30parts of the body work? Not for setting

18:33this system in motion, but it's a great

18:35idea to get out two to three times per

18:37week when the UV index is low. you can

18:38just look on your phone what's the UV

18:40index and in general be the early or the

18:42or the later half of your day when the

18:44UV index is lower and to get out and get

18:46some light onto your skin. You don't

18:48have to be naked or in a swimsuit. Great

18:50if you are and that's appropriate, but

18:52you can also just wear a t-shirt because

18:53the long wavelength light will go all

18:55the way through. So Glenn Jeffrey and

18:56Robert Roger Schwelt, he's a physician

18:59who talks about the immense benefits of

19:01getting sunlight onto the skin for

19:05getting over disease for state for

19:07enhancing immune system function and on

19:09and on.

19:10>> Can you because there's going to be a

19:11lot of people right now that are going

19:12to go buy a red light lamp.

19:13>> Not necessary.

19:14>> Not necessary.

19:15>> No. Sunlight. Pink Floyd. Pink Floyd

19:17album.

19:18>> Pass sunlight through a prism. It bends

19:21the light and you see the rainbow. Red,

19:23orange, yellow, green, blue, indigo,

19:24violet. But also in that sunlight is

19:27ultraviolet light, some UVB exposure

19:29each day to the skin, increases

19:31testosterone and estrogen in both women

19:33and men and is important for libido. It

19:36actually reinforces romantic

19:38relationships for reasons other than uh

19:40sexual interactions, um attractiveness,

19:43etc. Strong effects. So sunlight has it

19:45all. What you don't want is to go

19:47outside when there's so much UV that you

19:48get a sunburn. And you don't want to

19:52think that, you know, red light's the

19:54only light you need. You want that

19:55warmth from from the sun. And it gets

19:57better because and notice I'm I'm sort

19:58of like it gets better like a salesman.

20:00I'm selling nature. Okay, I'm telling

20:02you when you go outside and there's a

20:04lot of greenery. Greenery reflects long

20:08wavelength red and infrared light. Throw

20:10on some infrared goggles and you're not

20:12going to do this, but you look and they

20:13all that stuff would be glowing white in

20:15those goggles. Greenery reflects down

20:19infrared light. How do you know it

20:20reflects light? I'm stealing Roger's

20:23words as I say this, but where's the

20:24coolest place to be on a hot day? Under

20:26a tree. Why is that? Because it's

20:28reflecting the heat, the infrared light.

20:30But when you're out in greenery, you're

20:32getting all that long wavelength light,

20:34and it bounces around and it goes

20:36through you. So, get out into nature,

20:37walk outside. If you work and live in a

20:40city, get outside, take off a brimmed

20:42hat because you do want the the sun

20:43getting down onto your onto your face.

20:45People are so terrified about

20:47accelerating aging based on UV, but

20:49we're not talking about baking yourself

20:50in UV light all day. The the health

20:53benefits of this are immense. There's a

20:55Swedish study that actually showed that

20:56the more sunlight people got, the longer

20:58they lived, in fact, smokers who got a

21:01lot of sunlight, this isn't my favorite

21:03study, but um but we have to admit it's

21:05there, lived longers than non-smokers

21:08who didn't get enough sunlight. There

21:09and there are other things too like

21:11exercise, etc., but don't smoke, but get

21:13sunlight. There'll be a lot of night

21:14shift workers listening.

21:16>> I have a section specifically for night

21:17shift workers because

21:20here are the two scariest things. Night

21:23shift workers

21:24live shorter lives. Cancer rates go up.

21:27They're metabolically unhealthy. And

21:30it's very hard to mitigate. But I

21:32provide some tools specifically for

21:33night shift workers and for jet lag, by

21:35the way, because people travel. Here's

21:38the really scary thing. you and I

21:41qualify as night shift workers because

21:43the studies on night shift work, barring

21:45some of the more extreme ones, was most

21:47of them were on how many people after

21:506:00 p.m., right, are on devices getting

21:54artificial LED exposure or doing

21:56activities besides eating and

21:58socializing with their family or in bed.

22:00If you work at night at home, you're

22:02still a night shift worker. You don't

22:03have to work all night to be a night

22:05shift worker. So, we have a generation

22:07of kids that are metabolically sick. And

22:10I don't like to be one of these like

22:11fearmonger people, but here's the cool

22:14thing. I'm going to skip because we're

22:15on to this. I'm going to skip to number

22:17six.

22:18>> Okay.

22:18>> Okay. As the sun is going down, you

22:21don't have to watch the sunset. That

22:23would be cool to watch the sun. Everyone

22:24loves sunsets.

22:25>> But try and get some daylight in your

22:27eyes in the late afternoon or evening.

22:29If you're going to be working indoors

22:31from like after lunch until nightfall,

22:33try and get near a window. Do your best.

22:34Go out on a balcony, take a quick walk

22:36around the building, do what you can to

22:37get some sunlight in your eyes without

22:39sunglasses. When you get some sunlight

22:41in your eyes in the late part of your

22:43day, let's just say in the last third of

22:45your day, and the clock times don't

22:47matter here cuz we all get up and go to

22:48sleep at different times. You buffer

22:51those cells in your eye against the

22:54negative effects of artificial light at

22:56night. This is your Netflix o

22:58inoculation, as I call it. Like you can

23:01be on your computer at 9 or 10 at night

23:03without it damaging your melatonin

23:05levels quite as much, without it

23:06disrupting your blood glucose levels and

23:08your sleep if you get some bright light

23:10in your eyes in the later part of your

23:12day. But there's one population of

23:14people for whom this doesn't work and it

23:16seems to be adolescence. You can't

23:18buffer them against the negative effects

23:20of screen light at night. What happens

23:21if you use screen light at night? You

23:23get big bumps in cortisol and people

23:25say, "Well, I can fall asleep just fine

23:27after being on my iPad or screen." True,

23:30some people don't have as much of a

23:31negative effect from blue light at

23:33night, but the blood glucose effects and

23:36the next morning cortisol effects are

23:39the problem. Remember I said high

23:40cortisol sets you up for low cortisol.

23:42>> Yeah.

23:43>> Low cortisol sets you up for high

23:44cortisol. So you've got a population of

23:47people, kids who have their cortisol is

23:49slightly but significantly higher in the

23:50evening and at night because they're on

23:52devices and the next morning their

23:54cortisol levels are struggling to get

23:56up. M

23:58>> you know this is a tough one because

24:00teens socialize that way and you don't

24:02want to take their phones away and they

24:03cling to their iPads like you know like

24:05my new bulldog strummer clings to a chew

24:08toy you know it's like you can take it

24:10away from them but like they hate you

24:11for it. So I said view daylight cuz you

24:13can't always see the sun but even if

24:15it's overcast just get out for a few

24:16minutes and take a walk your sleep will

24:18be better.

24:18>> I feel like I'm [clears throat] giving a

24:19lecture in class.

24:20>> That's amazing. That's what I want.

24:21>> So we said hydrate sunlight. And then

24:23number three, I know everyone's heard

24:25it, but if you can exercise in the first

24:283 to four hours of your day, you could

24:30do it in the afternoon without problem,

24:32but there's a huge advantage to doing

24:34cardiovascular resistance training in

24:35the first 3 hours of your day.

24:37>> Cardiovascular or resistance training.

24:39>> Yeah. And in the book, I devote an

24:41entire chapter, chapter 2, to exercise.

24:43And I explain what I think personally is

24:45the best way to structure an exercise

24:46program for somebody who doesn't want to

24:48be the most jacked, but wants muscle and

24:50definition and strength. somebody that

24:53doesn't need to run a marathon for a

24:54record time, but wants endurance.

24:56Somebody who wants to be able to sprint

24:58reasonably fast and has middle distance

25:00ability, too. And it's basically

25:02structured. You either lift or do cardio

25:04on alternating days, three days total of

25:06lifting. Warm up reasonably low volume

25:09of work sets, two to three work sets per

25:11exercise, emphasizing compound

25:14movements. So, not a like a preacher

25:16curl or a tricep kickback. Those are

25:18fine, but you're going to get a lot more

25:20bang for your buck if you're doing

25:22pull-ups, rows, dips,

25:24>> multiple muscles at once,

25:25>> multiple joints moving at once as

25:27compound. Um, some hip hinge movement.

25:29So, could be squat, hack squat, some

25:31deadlifts, and I talk about how to get

25:33specific aesthetic effects in there,

25:35too. I mean, I'm by no means an exercise

25:37physiologist, but I've been resistance

25:38training since I was 16. I'm I'm now 50.

25:40I'll be 51 in a month, so I feel great.

25:43cardio at the start if you're doing

25:44resistance training or not at all.

25:46>> I warm up for 5 minutes of cardio and

25:47then resistance train, but I do the

25:49cardio on alternate days. Three days

25:51total of cardio. One day of cardio is

25:53long and slow for about an hour. One is

25:54about 30 minutes at moderate intensity.

25:56One is a short one like I did this

25:58morning. Jumped on the air bike, pedal

26:01easy for a minute, then go all out for

26:0230 seconds, easy for 10, 30, 10, 30, 10,

26:0630, 10, and then you're off the bike.

26:07Basically max heart rate training. Yeah.

26:09>> And the day after leg day, if you do

26:11your legs right, take a rest day.

26:13>> Yeah. But the here's the interesting

26:15thing about exercise. You notice I

26:17didn't say deliberate cold exposure.

26:20>> You [clears throat] want to blow some

26:21minds? I will go toe-to-toe with anybody

26:24on the internet or off the internet.

26:26Deliberate cold exposure does not raise

26:28cortisol.

26:30This much. It's amazing to me that the

26:33same people that are suggesting moderate

26:34to high-intensity exercise are saying

26:36that deliberate cold exposure raises

26:38cortisol. is simply not true. Not true

26:40for women cuz a lot of people said, "Is

26:42your book going to be for women and

26:43men?" I distinguish between data when

26:45there are data showing that it's

26:46different for women and men. I

26:47acknowledge when there's no data in

26:48women and the data are very clear in

26:51women and men, trivial increases in

26:53cortisol, magnificent huge increases in

26:56adrenaline, norepinephrine, and dopamine

26:58from deliberate cold exposure. And that

27:01those so so-called catakolamines are

27:03great to have rolling into your day.

27:04They're the things of alertness and

27:05focus. The appropriate stressor for

27:07cortisol, appropriate meaning the one

27:09that you want, is a psychological

27:10stressor. We know that.

27:12>> Working out with weights for 45 minutes,

27:14taking your sets near to failure, going

27:16for a run for 30 minutes. So, the point

27:19being, if you do this exercise in the

27:22first three hours of your day, you're

27:24getting a big inflection in cortisol.

27:26Again, this is what you want. Now, some

27:29people can't exercise first thing in the

27:30day. They either don't want to or they

27:33can't by way of schedule. And if you go

27:35into exercise in the later part of your

27:37day, that's fine. Your cortisol will

27:38come back down. You can do some long

27:39exhale breathing to slow your heart

27:41rate. Andy Galpin talks about that. Take

27:43a hot shower, which paradoxically lowers

27:46your core body temperature. And then

27:47helps you sleep. When you heat up the

27:49surface of your body,

27:50>> you have a thermostat in your brain

27:51called the medial preoptic area, and it

27:53goes, "Oh, the surface of my body is

27:56warm. I should probably cool my core

27:57body temperature down." And you fall

27:58asleep better. You know, this is like

28:00the the putting socks on effect or the

28:02hot bath effect, right? I assume a

28:04massage or something like that also.

28:05>> Great. You have access to that in the

28:07last hour of your day. Like uh we need

28:09to learn more about your life.

28:10[laughter]

28:11>> My fiance used to be a masseuse for many

28:13years. So she

28:14>> awesome.

28:15>> So when you exercise for a few days

28:18early in the first three hours of your

28:20day, let's say you do that two times.

28:22The next morning you wake up feeling a

28:25little bit more willing to exercise. Did

28:26your willpower change? Well, in some

28:28sense, yes. But what happened was your

28:30cortisol entrainment mechanisms changed.

28:32Your superc kaismatic nucleus all day is

28:35clocking what you're doing. Let's say

28:36you eat like 9, 12, snack at 3 and 6:30.

28:40You have a food anticipatory signal. You

28:42have ghrein is secreted makes you

28:44hungry. We are clocks and the

28:46synchronization of those clocks is very

28:48very important. When you exercise at

28:49roughly the same time of day, early in

28:51the day, you will have more energy to

28:53exercise in the first 15 minutes before

28:55that. You'll notice you kind of start

28:57stirring around. Yes, part of it is

28:58cognitive, but a lot of it actually is

29:01your brain is anticipating

29:04exercises coming. Oh, cool. That's why I

29:06I teach neuro anatomy, so this is fun.

29:09>> I have a a brain here in front of me. It

29:11does open up in case you want to open it

29:12up. But you just reminded me of

29:14something.

29:15>> You reminded me of something that I saw

29:16you talk about, which was the anterior

29:18mid-sulate cortex.

29:20>> And I think you described this as being

29:22one of the most interesting

29:24>> discoveries of neuroscience. So

29:26singulate cortex I mean it's not

29:28directly exposed here but the anterior

29:31mids singulate cortex would sit

29:32somewhere like there this is an amazing

29:36structure right I mean just to remind

29:39people like when we feel some sort of

29:42pressure social pressure physical

29:44pressure that we hate and we decide I'm

29:49going to lean into this like I'm going

29:50to compete or I'm going to push through

29:52this internal or external resistance

29:55neurons in the anterior midsulate cortex

29:57are just firing away and if that area is

29:59stimulated my colleague Joe Parvevesy at

30:02Stanford showed this he's a neurosurgeon

30:04people say I feel like a challenge is

30:06coming on and I'm going to lean into it

30:08this is the brain area of tenacity

30:11and the amazing thing is it has

30:13connections all over the brain with

30:15reward systems etc so it's collecting

30:17information about when it gets activated

30:20what's going on in the world that makes

30:22you feel pressure when you feel like

30:23pushing back when you don't but the Best

30:25part is it is highly subject to

30:27plasticity. People who diet successfully

30:31their anterior mids singulate cortex

30:33gets bigger and more active. People who

30:36embark on a new exercise program adding

30:39some component of exercise. For me it's

30:40mobility work because I've got a little

30:42stiff over the years. I know. So when

30:44you do something that you don't want to

30:47do, that you don't reflexively do, your

30:49anterior midsulate cortex gets bigger

30:51and more willing to engage in

30:53challenging things going forward.

30:54>> Yeah. So that's the key point, which is

30:56that sets you up to be able to do more

30:58challenging things in the future.

31:00>> That's right. Why would you do

31:02deliberate cold exposure? I'll tell you

31:04why. Because your ability to sit calmly

31:08or even not so calmly when your system

31:10is flooded with adrenaline and

31:11norepinephrine and to be able to trigger

31:13that with cold water safely like cold

31:15shower, getting into a cold ice bath,

31:17it's safe as long as it's not so cold.

31:18As long as you're not hyperventilating

31:19beforehand on purpose, that carries over

31:22to your ability to keep your head

31:24straight when other things trigger

31:26adrenaline. You don't get 10 stress

31:28systems, you get one. And stress looks

31:30like your adrenaline goes and it comes

31:33down slowly. This is a hallmark of

31:34stress. Cortisol goes up goes down.

31:37Right? So the Oh, you are prepared, my

31:39friend. My goodness, you should be a

31:41university professor. You want to teach

31:43with me at Stanford? So I came up with a

31:45model for arousal, right? People hear

31:47arousal and they think, "Oh, it's got to

31:48be romantic arousal." It can be, but

31:50arousal is really just how alert or

31:52sleepy you are. So you can be really

31:54sleepy, like in a coma, or you can be in

31:56full-blown panic. Nobody wants that. But

31:58a seesaw is the right analogy here

32:00because we have this thing called the

32:01autonomic nervous system. And the

32:03autonomic nervous system is made up of

32:06two parts, parasympathetic and the

32:09sympathetic nervous system. They're in

32:11different parts of the body. They both

32:13connect to most every organ. But in

32:15general, when you are relaxed, that's

32:18what we call the reflection of

32:20parasympathetic tone going up. When

32:22you're stressed, it's the reflection of

32:24sympathetic tone going up. But as you

32:26get sleepy, your parasympathetic nervous

32:29system starts to dominate a bit. And as

32:31you get really sleepy, it dominates more

32:34when you wake up in the morning. And

32:35then if you do the right things like

32:37hydrate, get sunlight and some exercise,

32:39well then your cortisol goes up and

32:41you're going to be more alert. The

32:43ability to navigate stress of all kinds

32:48depends on your ability to do what I

32:49call is control the tightness of this

32:52hinge. When you train your ability to

32:56think, breathe, stay calm, when your

32:59system is flooded with adrenaline and

33:01that happens later in a way that was

33:03nonvoluntary, something happened that

33:05you didn't want to happen, your brain

33:07immediately flits to the understanding

33:09of that place and you are able to

33:11maintain thoughtfulness. You can know to

33:14not speak. That's often the best thing

33:15you can do. You know to react or not

33:17react. In fact, when you get into a cold

33:20plunge, one of the beautiful things

33:21about cold is that your prefrontal

33:23cortex that's involved in strategy

33:25setting and making meaning out of what's

33:27going on, its activity is greatly

33:30suppressed for the first 20 to 30

33:32seconds. Know this about every stressful

33:35circumstance. In the first 20 to 30

33:37seconds, you are brain damaged. You are

33:40brain damaged. You're you are in that

33:42mode of like you could react physically.

33:44Sometimes that can save your life, but

33:46most times you just don't want to do

33:48anything. Step out of the way of the

33:50car, get away from the aggressor,

33:51whatever. But most times you're best off

33:53not saying a darn thing. And then your

33:56prefrontal cortex slowly starts coming

33:57back online. And then you're back again

33:59cuz you're ruminating, you know? And

34:00>> this is good relationship advice.

34:02>> Very good relationship advice.

34:02[laughter] I wish I had learned it long

34:04ago. Right. Actually, last night I

34:06looked on Twitter and I saw something

34:07that was both perplexing and a little

34:08bit upsetting to me. And I went to sleep

34:10like, I know how to deal with this. Some

34:12long exhale breathing, which will slow

34:13your heart rate. and we'll talk about

34:14that. But I woke up this morning, turns

34:16out it was a complete misunderstanding

34:19and everything was reversed. But last

34:20night I thought about sending a text,

34:23but I thought later at night the

34:25prefrontal cortex is already diminished.

34:27This is why stress feels so much harder

34:29to deal with at night

34:30>> and prefrontal cortex. We should

34:32describe that logic and stuff.

34:34>> So um frontal cortex, so here it's

34:36logical. You have the frontal and motor

34:39areas here. And your prefrontal cortex

34:41is basically a big patch of real estate

34:43behind your forehead that in humans is

34:45greatly expanded compared to in other

34:49mammals. I don't like calling them

34:50lower, but they have less prefrontal

34:52cortex. So, they're more driven by their

34:53impulses. One of the most incredible

34:55things that every child and adult needs

34:58to develop is what's called top- down

34:59inhibition. You feel an impulse, but you

35:03resist the impulse. M

35:05>> in fact the way I've mostly trained my

35:07dog strummer because it works is I

35:10taught him at 9 weeks of age put down a

35:12piece of food of course he goes for it

35:14he loves food and you teach him wait and

35:16he sits there and you teach him to look

35:18at you and then now he I can have him

35:20moving toward a piece of food and I say

35:22wait and his nose can be this far and

35:24he'll just stop. He has great top- down

35:26inhibition. Is it about food? No. Am I

35:28trying to torture him? Of course not.

35:30It's so that if I say wait, he can

35:32suppress his arousal.

35:35>> This is one of the most valuable skills.

35:37And people with frontal damage show an

35:39inability to do that, which is why

35:40sometimes they're violent or they say

35:42inappropriate things. People who are

35:44tired, stressed, drunk, prefrontal

35:47cortex activity is suppressed. Get in a

35:50cold shower. First 20, 30 seconds, it's

35:52kind of fun. You're you're like, here I

35:54am with less of a brain than I had

35:57getting in. And then 30 seconds later

36:00you're like, I can do this.

36:01>> This explains why you do things tired.

36:03>> Don't do things tired. Don't say things

36:05tired. Impulse control is way worse.

36:08>> So when I heard you talk about the

36:09anterior mids singular cortex and that

36:10there was this part of the brain that

36:12was kind of like the willpower or you

36:14described it then as the tenacity

36:15muscle. It completely changed my

36:18relationship with hard things because it

36:20made me realize at some sort of like I

36:22guess some conceptual level that every

36:24hard thing I overcome is better

36:27equipping me like when I you know curl

36:29weights in the gym to do harder things

36:32tomorrow.

36:32>> Yes.

36:32>> When I heard other oh there's like a

36:34neurological I'm making a neurological

36:36investment in my future and then you

36:38talked there about doing voluntary

36:40difficult things like the cold plunge

36:42whatever

36:43>> or learning a new language. It can be

36:45cognitive in nature. It can be learning

36:47to dance if that's stressful for you.

36:49And it can be anything that creates some

36:52resistance for you, internal resistance,

36:55anything of that sort. This is a a

36:57beautiful structure because it's wired

36:58into cognitive capacities and our

37:01ability to build them and challenges

37:02with that to emotional challenges.

37:04>> We're kind of optimizing our lives

37:05towards comfort though, aren't we?

37:07That's like a winning formula is more

37:09comfortable things.

37:11>> I think Jack Dorsey said it best.

37:12There's this great video of him online.

37:14It was it was a small lecture that he

37:16was giving where he said anytime we

37:18exchange ourselves, our money, our time

37:20for convenience, we are almost always

37:22giving up something that's like

37:23fundamentally useful for us

37:25neurologically. And it's okay to do. I

37:28order food on Door Dash cuz there's

37:30great food and I don't have a lot of

37:32time to cook. I'd like to devote my time

37:33to other things. I'm trading for

37:35convenience. But if you're aware of the

37:37trade-off, you're much better off. And

37:40the real question is what you're going

37:42to do with that additional time. While

37:43I'm against, you know, overoptimization

37:46to the point that it pulls you out of

37:47life, like it diminishes life, I am all

37:49for striving and optimization quote

37:52unquote in ways that allow you to lean

37:54into the rest of your life with more

37:55vigor. I think Arthur Brooks says it

37:57best. You know I mean we are wired and

37:59meaning comes from striving and within

38:02striving is some struggle and within

38:04struggle is also the release from

38:06struggle and that's also very uh

38:09satisfying. Here's the overoptimization

38:12thing to me in a nutshell which is

38:15there are people for whom doing two of

38:18the things I described for 5 minutes

38:20each per day will experience a

38:22significant improvement in their mental

38:23and physical health. There are people

38:24for whom they're sort of like junkyard

38:26dogs. They can live on anything. They

38:28have a ton of vigor and they're going be

38:29like, "Yeah, I didn't feel that much

38:30from like drinking some water and

38:31getting sunlight." Cool. I got you.

38:33You're one of those people who can fall

38:34asleep in front of the screen, get up,

38:35and just keep going on a, you know,

38:37sugary muffin and something like great.

38:40>> But everyone can afford to take a look

38:42at what they're doing now and try and

38:44move the needle toward more vigor,

38:47well-being,

38:49happiness, peace by doing certain

38:51things.

38:51>> Do you become more sensitive to the

38:53thing when you stop doing the thing?

38:55>> Depends on the thing. So, for instance,

38:57if people like I talk about nutrition in

39:00there and all we it's one of the cards I

39:02actually cover everything from the all

39:03meat diet to vegan diets to I really go

39:06into the literature so people can choose

39:08but really if you look at what most

39:10people could benefit from doing and you

39:12could do this with vegan or vegetarian

39:14it's a little harder but the best diet

39:15is going to be the following right not

39:18too many calories not too few that's

39:20individual you can calculate that it's

39:22an easy thing to do but I provide a way

39:23to do that you need to get what's what

39:25are high complete protein to calorie

39:28ratio proteins. This is a concept I came

39:31up with because if you look at the

39:32literature, yes, we need the essential

39:33amino acids. So that's a complete

39:35protein, but you can get that from beans

39:38and rice, but to get 30 g of complete

39:43protein from beans and rice, you're

39:44going to consume about four to five

39:45times as many calories as is required if

39:48you get it from a chicken breast.

39:49>> So this is the the factor that's kind of

39:51obvious, but no one ever talks about. So

39:53you want to eat some high complete

39:54protein to calorie ratio protein. So you

39:57know eggs, lean meat, fish and then

39:59everyone knows you need fiber,

40:01>> right? So vegetables and fruits. But

40:03what I will say is that many people who

40:06remove us starches entirely.

40:08>> Mhm. [clears throat]

40:08>> Or remove vegetables entirely will find

40:10that they their autoimmune issues

40:12resolve and there are reasons for that

40:14and we have to acknowledge that. But

40:16most people should be eating some

40:18vegetables and fruit for micronutrients

40:20and fiber. Low sugar fermented food.

40:22very clear Justin Sonnenberg's work from

40:24Stanford very clear lowers the

40:26inflammatome in fact when they had

40:28people eat more fiber for many people

40:31inflammatory markers went up no one

40:33likes to talk about that especially not

40:35the vegans but too much fiber can be

40:38noxious for some people and

40:40pro-inflammatory so low sugar fermented

40:42foods like sauerkraut kimchi beet kvass

40:45is delicious problem is they tend to be

40:47expensive but you can make your own and

40:49there's recipes online to do these

40:50things I don't want to get into the seed

40:53oil debate. Just eat just use olive oil.

40:55It's delicious. It's relatively

40:57inexpensive nowadays to get real olive

40:59oil. Small amounts of butter. Okay. Like

41:02like why are we even debating seed oils?

41:04It's so dumb. It's like the the seed oil

41:06debate is like the fastest way to kill

41:07neurons that I'm aware of. You know,

41:09it's like so dumb. It's like because the

41:11studies are not well done. You're

41:13comparing a processed food diet that

41:15includes seed oils versus or you're

41:16talking clean seed oils versus a high

41:19meat diet with processed meat. It's a

41:20it's a mess. It's like as a scientist,

41:22you just look at this and you go like

41:23this field sucks.

41:25>> Like it someone wants to have a

41:27magnificent career in science. Go into

41:29the field of nutrition and do some

41:31really good studies because the studies

41:34are a little lousy. 90% of them like you

41:37can look at it. You don't even have to

41:38be trained in nutrition. You go there

41:39five different variables here and four

41:41over here. This is like what you would

41:42call a bad experiment.

41:44>> So olive oil the data are great. It's

41:47impressive. And then starches are great

41:50for fueling muscles and glycogen and

41:53brain, but you don't want to overdo

41:55them. And the way that people tend to

41:56overdo starches is by eating starches

41:59combined with a lot of fats. So

42:02sourdough bread is great. Sourdough

42:03bread with butter is even better if you

42:06ask me. Sourdough bread with equal

42:08amounts of butter and bread, you're

42:09starting to get into problems. It's very

42:11hard for people to go from like to

42:13overeat starches unless they have a lot

42:15of fats with them or sugar with them. on

42:17starches. Is there an impact? I think

42:19I've heard you talk about an impact on

42:20your sleep with what you eat late at

42:22night.

42:23>> Many people who don't eat enough

42:24starches find that they have sleep

42:26issues. And there are reasons for this

42:28because we talk about comfort foods.

42:31>> Typically, people think junk foods when

42:33they think comfort foods, but foods that

42:36increase glucose lower cortisol. H,

42:39that's weird. Starches lower cortisol.

42:42And you want your cortisol low at night.

42:44Helps you fall and stay asleep. Now, you

42:46don't want to eat too close to bedtime.

42:47You also don't want to have gnawing

42:49hunger at bedtime. We talked about that.

42:51But here's the interesting thing. What

42:52is cortisol? We I should have mentioned

42:54this earlier. What is cortisol? Is it a

42:56stress hormone? No. It's a hormone

42:58that's released during stress. But

43:01cortisol's job is not to deal with

43:05stress. Cortisol's job is to mobilize

43:07energy in the body. When cortisol goes

43:10up, glucose is mobilized and other

43:12fuels, too. So when you eat starches,

43:15you buffer cortisol.

43:17There's a very clear relationship here.

43:20So people who are not eating enough

43:22starches who then allow themselves that

43:24bowl of rice or a bowl of pasta in their

43:26final meal of the day or a little bit at

43:27lunch and at dinner, maybe even a bowl

43:29of oatmeal breakfast, they feel more

43:32even psychologically. They have more

43:34physical energy. Sometimes people with

43:36chronic stress issues notice they stop

43:38shaking. People with autoimmune issues

43:40sometimes resolve those because your

43:41cortisol is buffered. Mhm.

43:43>> Because your blood glucose is elevated

43:44and so your body isn't tapping into the

43:46survival system to try and mobilize

43:48glucose. So

43:50>> I have this outstanding question that I

43:51have to ask you. It goes back to the

43:52picture that you drew of the graph.

43:54Where is that one? You said high

43:55cortisol in the morning is a good thing.

43:58>> Yep.

43:58>> So what if I pick up my phone first

44:02thing in the morning and I look at my

44:03worst emails

44:04>> in some sense from the perspective of

44:06spiking your cortisol? Like it's a good

44:08thing. But can you do it outside while

44:10getting sunlight? I was wondering if it

44:12matters like how the cortisol comes

44:13because what if I stress myself out in

44:14the morning? I I really

44:16>> doesn't matter. The problem is the

44:17rumination that comes with stress,

44:19right? So, you know, the nice thing

44:21about physical stressors that we control

44:23like a workout or a cold plunge is that

44:27they have an onset and an offset. And

44:29yes, they start faster than they end,

44:31right? You have stress and it kind of

44:33carries over. You ruminate. But

44:34psychological stressors tend to bang

44:37around in our brain a lot and late at

44:39night and they tend to come back. I will

44:40say this, I think 2027 is going to be

44:43the year that we close the coffin on

44:46this cortisol is bad thing.

44:48>> So, how should I think about cort

44:49cortisol? Because right now, I think of

44:50it as the stress hormone.

44:52>> It's to mobilize energy,

44:53>> okay?

44:54>> So, you can use it,

44:55>> okay?

44:55>> And if you're going to sleep at night,

44:56you don't need to mobilize energy so you

44:58can use it. You need to rest and reset

44:59your body.

45:00>> Okay?

45:01>> Cortisol is an energyromoting

45:04hormone. So if I walk up on stage, my

45:06cortisol level, like before I go up on

45:07stage and there's a big audience,

45:08whatever, my cortisol level is going to

45:09go up then.

45:10>> Yeah. If you're stressed about it, maybe

45:12a little bit more, but it's it's it's a

45:13preparation hormone. You're preparing

45:15for adversity, but also great things.

45:17There are these beautiful studies from a

45:19guy named James McGaw and Larry Cahill,

45:21which showed do you know that if you

45:23want somebody to learn something, you

45:24know what you do? You spike their

45:25cortisol before, during, or after that

45:27thing should work. Why not? Trauma does

45:30that and you never forget. All you do is

45:33work on trying to remove the emotional

45:34load of that traumatic thing.

45:36>> Wait, so if does that mean that someone

45:38who's listening to this podcast right

45:39now in the gym

45:41>> is going to have better knowledge recall

45:42of what we talked about than someone

45:43who's listening in bed?

45:44>> Great question. So I have a a chapter

45:46that's all about learning motivation and

45:48plasticity. And we've all heard exercise

45:51makes your brain better. How? Why? Turns

45:55out it's very important to understand.

45:56There are two ways it does it or at

45:58least two. One is it raises your levels

46:00of arousal. Exercise doesn't make you

46:03smarter. Exercise makes you more alert

46:05coming out of the exercise so you can go

46:07learn things because it turns out you

46:08have to be alert to learn things. In

46:10particular, you need adrenaline and

46:12cortisol elevated to learn things. So

46:15when people say, you know, weightlifting

46:17makes is good for your brain. Cardio is

46:19good for your brain. Turns out long slow

46:21cardio, my endurance friends aren't

46:23going to like this. Not that great for

46:25your brain. It's not bad for your brain,

46:26but it's not that great for your brain.

46:28Turns out an intense weightlifting

46:30session or high-intensity interval

46:31training session in the 4 hours after

46:33that you are primed for learning. Why?

46:36You got a lot of stimulatory molecules

46:39in your body and you can focus better.

46:41>> What about if I'm a podcaster and I want

46:42to be able to ask good questions and use

46:44my mouth and my brain uh in that context

46:47not not necessarily just learning but

46:48performance of my sort of cognition.

46:50>> So the performance curve basically is

46:52inverted to you. If you're not alert

46:54enough, you can't do what you need to

46:55do. If you're too alert, you can't do

46:57what you need to do or learn. So, you

46:59want to be at the top of that inverted

47:00U. And a lot of what learning is about

47:03and a lot of what the intermedulate

47:05cortex is about is getting from I don't

47:07want to do it up to the top of that U.

47:10Then it's usually about not getting too

47:11stressed. Now, I learned the best trick

47:14for this, like the two best tricks. And

47:16in fact, that will take us to number

47:18five. You can use any time of of day,

47:20which is use physiological size to

47:22reduce stress fast. Okay. Okay. So, I

47:24have a a chapter on stress mitigation

47:25and it's got essentially two components.

47:27One is how to limit stress in the

47:29moment.

47:30>> Okay.

47:30>> Very very important to know how to limit

47:32stress in the moment. And here,

47:33>> why is it so important?

47:35>> Oh gosh. Because meditation, great

47:37night's sleep, massage,

47:40social relations, being wellfed,

47:42hydrated, all of that helps you buffer

47:44stress. But when something happens and

47:47your heart rate is too high or you're

47:49shaking and you can't organize your

47:50thoughts in the way you want, none of

47:52that helps. you've gone over the line.

47:55You're too far on the arousal spectrum

47:57towards alert.

47:59And it was about 2016 that I realized

48:03I'm going to take a significant portion

48:04of my lab and work on this problem. I

48:06want to find real time tools for

48:08mitigating stress. So I started hanging

48:09around with people from special

48:10operations who sit in ice baths and cold

48:12water. And they don't actually do ice

48:13baths by the way in the SEAL teams. They

48:15spend a lot of time in cold water during

48:16their training. And I started talking to

48:18people in performance fields in

48:19particular neurosurgeons, people who

48:21deal with life or death circumstances

48:23for many, many years and maintain

48:24immense calm. One of my closest

48:26childhood friends, he's you should have

48:28him on this podcast. It's his name is

48:30Dr. Eddie Chang and he's a neurosurgeon

48:32at UCSF. He's the chair of neurosurgery

48:34and he's brought people out of lockin

48:36syndrome to speak through AI. He's also

48:38a bioengineer. He's also been my friend

48:40since we were 7 years old. And we talk

48:42three times a week these days about

48:45science. And I actually visited his

48:46laboratory and got to see him take a

48:48golf ballized tumor out of a guy's

48:49forebrain while the guy was awake.

48:51>> Wow.

48:52>> Eddie is the calmst guy you'll ever

48:55meet. Why? Because a movement of less

48:57than a millimeter in the wrong direction

48:58for him could cost a patient's life.

49:01People have ways to calm down in real

49:03time. So I teamed up with a colleague,

49:05his name is David Spiegel. He's our uh

49:07at that time he was our associate chair

49:08of psychiatry and he studies hypnosis

49:11but clinical hypnosis for smoking

49:13sessation pain management and anxiety

49:15and I should say mainly Malise Yilz

49:19Balban in my lab did the study she built

49:21this stress lab with VR and stress and

49:25that's a whole other thing and then we

49:26did this study where about a hundred or

49:29so subjects were fixed with um trackers

49:31that measured heart rate and heart rate

49:33variability and sleep and people were in

49:36one of four groups. They either

49:38meditated for 5 minutes a day or they

49:40did box breathing. Inhale, hold, exhale,

49:42hold for 5 minutes. Okay?

49:44>> Like 4 seconds each or something.

49:45>> There's a way you can measure it, which

49:46is the carbon dioxide tolerance test.

49:48Like how well you can control an exhale

49:50will tell you a little bit about how

49:52stressed you are. When you're stressed,

49:53you tend to blow off carbon dioxide very

49:55quickly. And when you're less stressed,

49:56it tends to shift towards long exhales

49:58become easier. So one of the groups, and

50:01then I'll say what the mechanism is, did

50:03cyclic hyperventilation.

50:05Some people call this Wimhof breathing,

50:06tumo breathing, pranayyama breathing.

50:09It's big inhales,

50:11passive exhales. Repeat it for five

50:13minutes. [snorts]

50:14[sighs]

50:16Massively spikes adrenaline, which isn't

50:19a bad thing. You're controlling it

50:20anyway. Does not spike cortisol very

50:22much, incidentally.

50:24And when you do those exhales, you're

50:26blowing off a lot of carbon dioxide, so

50:28it shifts your internal state and tends

50:29to make people very alert. or they did

50:32there was a fourth condition where they

50:33did a double inhale long exhale repeat

50:37the so-called physiological sigh. So

50:39Jack Feldman at UCLA and some other

50:41folks in the 30 1930s had observed that

50:46animals and people when they're very

50:48relaxed would do this kind of strange

50:49pattern of breathing where they would go

50:52[sighs]

50:52[gasps]

50:54it's a double inhale long exhale.

50:57Jack's lab discovers there's a brain

50:59area called the parapacial nucleus which

51:01is specifically there to generate this

51:04double inhale exhale pattern in animals

51:06and in humans wild nature doesn't make

51:10mistakes like that okay turns out there

51:12are two breathing centers one is in

51:15called the pre-bot singer complex named

51:16after a bottle of wine [gasps]

51:20pattern of breathing where you inhale

51:21exhale what that you alternate this

51:24other structure the parapacial nucleus

51:26which we all have is involved in anytime

51:28you double up the inhales or exhales.

51:29And it's involved in breathing while you

51:31speak or sing or eat. And it generates

51:34these physiological size which it turns

51:36out get triggered in environments where

51:39there's not enough oxygen or when you

51:41get claustrophobic or when you get very

51:43stressed, carbon dioxide goes up. Your

51:46brain senses that and it triggers the

51:49gas reflex. That double inhale maximally

51:52inflates the millions, hundreds of

51:54millions of little sacks in the lungs.

51:56And then when you exhale, you offload

51:58the greatest amount of carbon dioxide.

52:00So if you just go,

52:02you're not offloading as much carbon

52:03dioxide. But if you [snorts]

52:07[sighs and gasps]

52:08second short inhale

52:10takes these little sacks in your lungs,

52:12which are like balloons at a kids party,

52:14and they're empty, but they're fluid

52:16lined on the so there's some surface

52:18tension inside them. they're sticking

52:20together. So, you go, it's the double

52:23inhale that opens those up and then you

52:25offload the carbon dioxide. Now, that's

52:28great. But the real magic of deliberate

52:30long exhales is that they slow your

52:33heart rate down through a process called

52:35respiratory sinus arrhythmia. This is

52:38like the most important thing for anyone

52:40exed stress, exercise, sleep, and

52:43wellness because the wild thing is we

52:46have this Vegas nerve. Everyone likes

52:48talk about the vagus nerve. It's a

52:50massive nerve bundle that collects

52:52sensory information and chemical

52:54information from the organs of the body

52:56and sends it up to the brain. Cool. And

52:58it's classified as parasympathetic

53:01calming. But you know what's funny?

53:03Neuroscientists when they want to wake

53:05up and a person during an experiment

53:07like a neurosurgery experiment, they

53:09stimulate the vagus. A treatment for for

53:12depression is to stimulate the Vegas.

53:15Guess what that does? makes people more

53:17alert. So, it's a mixed nerve. But the

53:20really cool part about the vagus is that

53:22it's not all ascending.

53:25The 85% of the information is going up

53:27from the body through the vagus. But

53:29there's another pathway too and it goes

53:31down and it goes down to your heart and

53:35it controls the slowing of the heart

53:38rate when you exhale. Heart rate

53:41variability is the slowing of your heart

53:44rate when you exhale.

53:47You want to increase your HRV, do a few

53:49deliberate exhales during the day.

53:52People go, "How do I get my HRV up?"

53:54Well, yeah, you do some V2 max training,

53:56right? Like, you know, obviously you do

53:57some max heart rate training, some HIT

53:59workouts, etc. You really want to

54:01increase your HRV in sleep and while

54:02waking, just do some deliberate exhales

54:04during the day because that's the

54:06parasympathetic, the calming arm of the

54:08Vegas pushing down

54:12on your heart rate. And all of the

54:14groups I described saw benefits, but it

54:16was the people who did these

54:17physiological size that benefited the

54:19most. So then I started exploring, well,

54:22how fast does heart rate slow down with

54:24physiological size? And it turns out you

54:26don't need to do it for 5 minutes. Do it

54:28once. You just go, "Okay, you're feeling

54:29stressed. You're going on stage. You're

54:31waiting for a diagnosis. You're you

54:33don't feel you feel too alert relative

54:35to how you want to feel for whatever

54:37reason, good or bad. You're about to get

54:39married, right? You whatever.

54:41>> You just

54:44[sighs]

54:44[gasps]

54:47until your lungs are empty and it's

54:49immediate."

54:51And I for me that was immensely

54:53gratifying. Yes. Because it's fun to

54:55publish papers. if we publish it and

54:56sell reports and Meliss gets let's the

54:58lion share the credit for that there

55:00were other people on the paper but she

55:01did so much hard work from that and

55:02analysis I was so gratified because I'm

55:05like ah finally like if I didn't sleep

55:07well or if I something stressful even

55:09though I slept well I can calm myself

55:11down like like that

55:13>> I thought real time tools for stress are

55:16what we all need the interesting thing

55:19is that you can also raise your stress

55:21threshold and a lot of the stress

55:23mitigation chapter is also about how to

55:24do that we need to train for discomfort

55:28so that the little things don't feel so

55:30big.

55:30>> Yeah,

55:31>> this is also important in survival

55:32situations, right? You need to be able

55:34to think very clearly about what order

55:37of operations to take, what direction to

55:39escape through. This is not about like

55:42setting yourself to tolerate more pain

55:44and abuse. This is about the exact

55:46opposite. So, this is about safety. This

55:48is about self-p protection. And this is

55:50about noticing when you're when we're

55:52alert but calm. We can notice the subtle

55:55ripples in people around us who needs

55:58[clears throat] our attention who we

55:59really don't like

56:01>> but we never really realized it. You can

56:03notice that stuff.

56:04>> A lot of people they wake up at like 2

56:053:00 a.m. in the morning.

56:06>> Yeah.

56:07>> In the middle of the night and they

56:08don't really know why. They don't know

56:09how to get back to bed. They start

56:10worrying and remuner remunerating.

56:12>> Very very common.

56:13>> Yeah. So what they can use this as a

56:15tool in that moment

56:16>> definitely 10 long long deliberate

56:18exhales. There's also this really crazy

56:20trick that I put in the book has

56:22indirect scientific support. You want it

56:24like best way to fall back asleep. You

56:25want to hear this crazy this is so nuts.

56:27To fall asleep or to fall back asleep,

56:29you need to stop thinking about your

56:31body position. H turns out there's a

56:35direct relationship through a few steps,

56:37but there's a dedicated circuit I should

56:39say between your eyes, their movements,

56:42and your cerebellum, which is involved

56:44in propriception and balance and a

56:46number of other things. We call we call

56:47the cerebellum the mini brain, but it's

56:49this this guy back here. We really get

56:52nerdy. These hyperfoliated loes back

56:54here. Foliators are just folds. It's

56:56just nerd speak for foldy bumpy. It's

56:58involved in balance. It's involved in

57:00learning. It's actually very important

57:02for generating and responding to the

57:04error signals between what you're trying

57:05to do and what you can do. That error

57:08signal turns out to be one of the most

57:10important things for generating learning

57:12to make errors through genuine attempts.

57:14And your cerebellum is critical for

57:15that. It's also involved in timing. So,

57:17you need to kind of turn off your

57:21recognition of your own limbs to fall

57:23asleep. How do you do that? You know

57:25what works with babies? Walk back and

57:27forth at a particular pace. And this was

57:29defined in this Japanese study. And have

57:31people swing the baby back and forth

57:33just gently as they do it. And the baby

57:35falls asleep. Guess what? Parents figure

57:37out the exact cadence with a very small

57:41margin of error through trial and error

57:43to figure out how to get their kid to

57:44sleep. It's like a natural experiment.

57:46It's been looked at in the lab.

57:48>> Turns out when you rock back and forth,

57:51your eyes move. This is a very, very

57:54ancient system that exists in all jawed

57:56animals, including us, that as we move

57:58through space, walking, running,

58:00swimming, whatever. The world is gliding

58:01by, what we call optic flow. You would

58:04see the world blurry. But you have a

58:07compensatory eye movement that

58:09unbeknownst to you because of a

58:11connection between your eyes and these

58:14brain stem areas whose names aren't

58:16important right now and your cerebellum

58:19creates a visual slip error and your

58:21eyes automatically offset that error. So

58:24when I go like this,

58:26the world seems stable. And it turns out

58:29there's a pattern of eye movement that

58:31can shut down the propriceptive circuits

58:33in the cerebellum make you forget your

58:36limb position and it greatly facilitates

58:40the speed at which you fall back asleep.

58:43>> Okay. You're going to close your eyes.

58:45Great. You're going to move your eyes

58:47slowly to one side underneath your

58:49eyelids, then to the other side.

58:51>> Mhm.

58:52>> Then up, then down. Now you're going to

58:55move them counterclockwise in a

58:57circleish

58:59and then clockwise in a circleish. And

59:00now still with your eyes closed, you're

59:02going to kind of point them towards your

59:04nostrils. You're not going to cross your

59:05eyes and you're going to do a long

59:06exhale.

59:09Great. That done two or three times

59:12generally has people waking up the next

59:13morning and like wild. What happens?

59:17What happened is your propriceptive

59:19circuits are shut down. Now, that's kind

59:21of fun to do and you'll see and it costs

59:23nothing and it generally works. Some

59:25people, if they're really, really

59:27stressed, it might not work, but this is

59:28what I do if I wake up in the middle of

59:29the night. I usually go to the bathroom,

59:32get back in bed, do long exhale

59:33breathing, and I do that and I wake up

59:34the next morning. It really works well.

59:37So well, in fact, that there's a company

59:39based on work done from two MIT

59:42scientists. They have a sleep mask that

59:45generates this pattern of eye movements

59:48through a little electrode behind the

59:50ear. It just like and it stimulates the

59:54extraocular muscles in just the right

59:55patterns. And I tried it and you fall

59:57right asleep.

59:58>> You're joking.

59:59>> No.

1:00:00>> And it monitors REM.

1:00:02>> No, you know, we monitor REM through

1:00:03like an eight sleep or a Whoop or some

1:00:05other device through changes in heart

1:00:07rate and breathing. This is direct

1:00:10monitoring of REM.

1:00:12It's wild. And it can control your eye

1:00:16movements to induce more REM if you want

1:00:18more REM. There will be a time very soon

1:00:20like within the next 12 to 14 months

1:00:22when because of devices like the one

1:00:24they and others are making when you're

1:00:26going to be able to say, you know what,

1:00:27I want 2 hours of deep sleep. I want 2

1:00:30hours of REM across a 6-hour night

1:00:33because I can't afford to sleep my

1:00:34ration of eight. And you will be

1:00:36generating those eye movements during

1:00:38sleep in order to facilitate, not force,

1:00:40but facilitate those patterns of sleep.

1:00:44I've spent the last decade building and

1:00:46investing in companies. And so often the

1:00:48conversation around marketing budgets

1:00:49follows the exact same pattern. The

1:00:51budget gets approved, but then the

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1:01:42Keep this to yourself. Terms and

1:01:44conditions apply. I want to speak to the

1:01:46business owners listening and watching

1:01:48right now. I know what it's like to be

1:01:49personally responsible for every

1:01:51decision. I founded my first company at

1:01:5221 years old and honestly the pressure

1:01:55can be immense. It's the kind of mental

1:01:57load that takes its toll below the

1:01:59surface. I recently did some tests

1:02:00through our sponsor function which got

1:02:02me thinking about that invisible impact.

1:02:04I found that I had low levels of

1:02:06omega-3s. I had deficient levels of

1:02:09vitamin D probably because I sit inside

1:02:12this dark room all day. And that has

1:02:14totally changed how I construct my day

1:02:16going forward. I get up in the morning

1:02:17and the first thing I now do is I go for

1:02:19a walk outside in the sunshine. in part

1:02:21to help my vitamin D levels increase,

1:02:22but also because it helps to reset my

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1:02:38functionalth.com/doac

1:02:41to join and use code DOAC25

1:02:44for a $25 credit. Did I hear you say

1:02:47that there's a peptide that can help

1:02:48your REM sleep? Yes, I have no

1:02:50affiliation to to it because um it's

1:02:52called pinealon. I I will tell you in

1:02:54the book I do not talk about hormone

1:02:57therapies, peptides or psychedelics.

1:02:59The book is about what I know for sure.

1:03:02Hormones, peptide therapies and

1:03:03psychedelics are at the front edge right

1:03:06now. I'm very much involved in

1:03:09looking at the research, talking to the

1:03:10people that are doing these things. And

1:03:11yes, I I dabble in these things, right?

1:03:13I'm very interested. I experiment on

1:03:15myself and I'm an adult. I can do that.

1:03:17So, pinealon is very interesting because

1:03:21I found that if I took an itty bitty bit

1:03:24every third night, I tried this

1:03:26experiment for about a month. I got

1:03:28massive amounts of REM sleep that night,

1:03:30but also on subsequent nights. I hosted

1:03:33a Dr. Abud Bakri on my podcast who's in

1:03:36my view is the most knowledgeable

1:03:39physician on the topic of peptides.

1:03:41>> Oh, I saw that episode. It's amazing.

1:03:43>> He's amazing. And I think you guys would

1:03:44have an even better conversation,

1:03:46frankly. But in any event, he tells me

1:03:49that pinealon is potentially involved.

1:03:52There are some data supporting its use

1:03:53for encouraging pinealy health. So the

1:03:57actual health of the pineal pineal

1:03:59gland.

1:03:59>> Yeah. The pineal gland which makes

1:04:00melatonin and it does other things too.

1:04:02So I think pinealon is a great tool to

1:04:04use sporadically. I don't use it

1:04:07regularly. You know as long as we're

1:04:08talking about peptides I do think that

1:04:09there's I mean I'm peptide curious is

1:04:12you know I'm from the Bay Area called

1:04:13peptide [laughter] curious. I have not

1:04:15tried any GLPS yet, but I'm getting

1:04:17curious about very very low dose

1:04:19tepatide or reatrite.

1:04:20>> I'm peptide curious, but I'm scared.

1:04:23>> Yeah,

1:04:23>> I'm scared because I don't You've got to

1:04:25inject most of them, right?

1:04:27>> It's a tiny little thing, you know. Um,

1:04:29>> what's your take on peptides as like a c

1:04:31It's a big category, isn't it? Bloody

1:04:33everything seems to be a peptide these

1:04:34days.

1:04:34>> Here's my opinion. It will be popular

1:04:36with some people, unpopular with others,

1:04:38but

1:04:41obviously as with hormone therapies or

1:04:43anything else or supplements like sleep,

1:04:45hydration, sunlight, exercises,

1:04:47nutrition, like you need all that stuff.

1:04:49The behavioral tools are the foundation.

1:04:51>> Great things can happen when you build

1:04:53on a foundation.

1:04:55Okay, things can happen when you build

1:04:57on non-foundation, but it doesn't last

1:04:58long. But the combination of the two can

1:05:00be pretty awesome, especially if

1:05:01somebody has the means and the interest.

1:05:03So the GLPS

1:05:06>> Mhm.

1:05:07>> which are the weight loss drugs.

1:05:08>> The weight loss drugs. I think Redat

1:05:09True Tide is amazing. It's not just a

1:05:11GLP. It also hits the glucagon and GIP

1:05:13pathway. This is the one that Lily

1:05:15invested. Eli Lily invested hundreds of

1:05:18millions of dollars if not more into

1:05:19researching and it's went through phase

1:05:21three. People lost onethird

1:05:23approximately of their body weight in

1:05:26about a year or so.

1:05:27>> Is that a is that a good thing for

1:05:29everybody?

1:05:29>> No. So what's happening is people are

1:05:32Okay. So the psychedelic

1:05:34community talked about micro doing

1:05:37>> that micro doing phrase has been now

1:05:40incorporated into GLPs and people

1:05:42realized they could bypass a lot of the

1:05:44side effects and the cost by micro doing

1:05:48GLPs. These are anecdotes so I want to

1:05:50be clear and I'm not pushing peptides or

1:05:52selling peptides. I say quite

1:05:54comfortably. I have a friend who's very

1:05:55very skeptical about anything that's not

1:05:57fully FDA approved. I don't want to hear

1:05:59about your biohacking nonsense. this

1:06:01kind of thing, but she has chronic

1:06:02fatigue syndrome. And she talked to me

1:06:04about like what can I do? She's seen all

1:06:06these physicians. Mind you, these are

1:06:07physicians at Stanford. These are

1:06:09physicians at UCSF. Like she's and she's

1:06:11a very smart, nuanced person, but she

1:06:14has a wall there.

1:06:16She's started taking a very low, very

1:06:20low dose of tratide once every 10 days.

1:06:22>> And trite is

1:06:23>> it's one of the GLP drugs. So we could

1:06:25talk about Mjarompic, but it's it's not

1:06:28>> it's not touching GIP or glucagon. It's

1:06:30mainly just increasing levels of of

1:06:33glucagon like peptide which is this

1:06:35thing that suppresses hunger and

1:06:36appetite but also seems to lower

1:06:38inflammation. Yes, there are concerns

1:06:40about vision loss in people who have

1:06:41certain structural abnormalities of the

1:06:43eye. Yes, there are concerns about

1:06:44apathy if people take too much of them.

1:06:46You know, it seems to reduce alcohol

1:06:48craving for people that like alcohol

1:06:50>> and sugar craving more generally. And it

1:06:52can reduce craving for everything if you

1:06:54take enough of it.

1:06:55>> Yeah. Keep in mind these drugs are

1:06:57ramping up levels of GLP a thousandfold

1:06:59or more. Thousandfold or more. The body

1:07:03has never seen this level of of glucagon

1:07:06like peptide in the history of humans.

1:07:08And remember this whole thing was

1:07:10discovered because a smart biologist was

1:07:11studying why helila monsters, these

1:07:14reptiles that I think are ugly, he

1:07:15probably thinks they're beautiful, only

1:07:17have to eat a couple times a year. It's

1:07:19because they make a peptide called

1:07:20extendin which turns out to be

1:07:21homologous to glucagon like peptide one

1:07:24in humans. The reason these reptiles

1:07:26don't have to eat very often is because

1:07:28they always feel satiated. Why? Because

1:07:29they have very high levels of glucagon

1:07:31like peptide circulating. We don't. And

1:07:34it works through two mechanisms. Tells

1:07:37the brain mechanisms for satiety to ramp

1:07:40up their activity. And so your brain is

1:07:41telling you, I don't really want food.

1:07:43And it also makes people feel full,

1:07:44which is the basis of some of the side

1:07:46effects of nausea and other things. So

1:07:48she will tell you, oh my god, my

1:07:50energy's back. My inflammation markers

1:07:52are way lower. I I'm not cured, but I

1:07:55feel so much better. Very, very hard to

1:07:58dispute that kind of experience if

1:08:00you're the patient. We could talk about

1:08:02safety and sourcing and, you know, etc.

1:08:04But anyway, so people are starting to

1:08:07realize they can micro dose stuff, but

1:08:09you won't see randomized control trials

1:08:11that are going to push this kind of

1:08:12notion. You can tell it's terrible for

1:08:14business, right?

1:08:16>> So then there are things like pinealon

1:08:18for sleep, epalon perhaps for DNA

1:08:20repair. I haven't dabbled with that one

1:08:22yet. And then there are the so-called

1:08:24growth hormone secrets. So we're talking

1:08:26about tessamellin, hypermearin, cjc1 uh

1:08:291295. These will promote more growth

1:08:32hormone release and sleep. They will

1:08:35have a negative feedback effect where

1:08:37they're going to shut down some of your

1:08:38own production and people get a bit

1:08:41leaner and they claim their deep sleep

1:08:42is better and it can increase insulin

1:08:45sensitivity. I'll tell you, I've tried

1:08:46serellin. I've tried a few of these

1:08:48other ones. They nuke my REM sleep. They

1:08:51give me a ton of deep sleep. I don't

1:08:53like them. I've tried pineal and I'll

1:08:54take it now and again. I don't do it

1:08:56right now. And BPC is the one that gets

1:08:58everybody talking because body

1:09:00protection compound 157 is made in the

1:09:02gut. People claim, and I do think their

1:09:05claims are accurate, that they feel,

1:09:08notice what I said right there, is they

1:09:09feel as if their recovery from injury

1:09:11was accelerated. And I believe them

1:09:14because I've spent a lot of time with

1:09:15the animal data whether it's an Achilles

1:09:17tendon transsection or nerve regrowth or

1:09:20or tendon or ligament regrowth and

1:09:22vascular. Yes, it does seem to

1:09:24accelerate healing across the board. But

1:09:25the concern is you could vascularize

1:09:27tumors. Now

1:09:29would I take it? No, I don't have an

1:09:30injury right now. I don't have any

1:09:32reason to take it. So I don't think

1:09:34people should say should I take

1:09:35peptides. You should ask what effect in

1:09:37your life are you trying to achieve?

1:09:39Right? And then maybe BPC makes sense.

1:09:42Maybe it doesn't. You're not going to

1:09:44find many clinical trials on it. It has

1:09:46a very very high maybe infinite, you

1:09:49know, LD50, meaning no one has really

1:09:51figured out how much can kill you. But

1:09:53that's not a good kind of way to run

1:09:55your life. And

1:09:57you know, it's somewhere between a drug

1:09:59and a supplement.

1:10:00>> I think this is one of the concerns or

1:10:01one of the conversations I often hear

1:10:03around JLPs at the moment is that

1:10:04they've just not been long around long

1:10:06enough for us to know the side effect

1:10:08profile over a long period of time. Is

1:10:09there any truth to that?

1:10:11Well, do you want to be in the

1:10:13experiment or out of the you want to be

1:10:14in the control group or you want to be

1:10:15in the experimental group? Well, for

1:10:16somebody who has like serious obesity

1:10:18issues, the tepatides and mjaros and

1:10:21ompics and reatride could potentially

1:10:24save their life. Okay. Vision loss is a

1:10:27serious consideration. Although, I'll go

1:10:29on record, you know, vision is my home

1:10:32and I'll just be direct. I don't tap

1:10:35dance at all and I'm not trying to start

1:10:36any battles and David and I can talk

1:10:38about it uh directly. David Sinclair

1:10:40recently went on Rogan and said, you

1:10:42know, the amount of of blindness caused

1:10:43by GLPs has doubled which scared

1:10:46everybody.

1:10:47>> I heard that.

1:10:48>> But there's a structural abnormality in

1:10:49the eye of a subset of people for whom

1:10:51that's true. And it's a great idea to

1:10:53get your eyes scanned. But yeah, so as

1:10:55the ah comes apart.

1:10:56>> Yeah.

1:10:56>> Oh man, this is fun. It's a good thing

1:10:58only come on here every once in a while

1:11:00because I do this I do this all day

1:11:01every day. So you know, light obviously

1:11:03comes in. You got that cornea on the

1:11:05outside of the eye and the lens focuses

1:11:07the the light onto your retina which is

1:11:09this

1:11:10pie crust like structure that lines the

1:11:12back of your eyes. It's an amazing

1:11:14structure you know three cell layers

1:11:16thick catches light absorbs light. The

1:11:20photo receptors turn that into

1:11:22electricity through photo transduction.

1:11:24Amazing. Then that electricity is cast

1:11:27forward to a set of cells that line the

1:11:29inner part of the retina that we call

1:11:31retinal ganglion cells. And then they

1:11:32send their wires, their so-called axons

1:11:34out the optic nerve into your brain.

1:11:36They course along the bottom of the

1:11:38brain and they enter your brain,

1:11:40including your circadian clock. You get

1:11:43vision, you get sleepwake rhythms, you

1:11:46get hormone regulation by light. You get

1:11:48it's just incredible. Well, where they

1:11:50exit the eye is called the optic nerve

1:11:52head. And if the optic nerve head is a

1:11:55nice nicely shaped and sized tube for

1:11:58them to exit, great. Too big, that's not

1:12:00good. But too tight's not good either

1:12:02because those wires get pinched off.

1:12:04This is part of what happens in the

1:12:06disease glaucoma which is the eye

1:12:08pressure goes up and those axons die

1:12:10away. These cells die away and people

1:12:12it's the second leading cause of

1:12:13blindness in the world. So in some

1:12:16people who have a structural

1:12:17abnormality, a structural feature of the

1:12:20optic nerve head here where these these

1:12:22wires leave the eye, it does seem that

1:12:25the GLPS put them at greater risk for

1:12:27causing some cinching off of those of

1:12:30those cells and and there have been

1:12:31cases of blindness. But the thing that

1:12:34wasn't really cool, David, is this. He

1:12:37is developing some very potentially

1:12:40impressive tools to rescue vision in

1:12:42glaucoma, etc. But meanwhile, GLPS are

1:12:45not making many people go blind. Okay?

1:12:48You know, that's about as true as

1:12:49masturbation is making people go blind.

1:12:52I'm not saying you should do either one.

1:12:54That's your personal choice. But the

1:12:56point here is that he scared the

1:12:59daylights out of people, pun intended,

1:13:03telling them that they can make you go

1:13:04blind. But everyone should get this area

1:13:06of their eye image. And it turns out

1:13:08it's very easy. You can go to your

1:13:09opthalmologist or optometrist, ask for

1:13:11an eye pressure test. Usually insurance

1:13:13covers it, but definitely worth paying

1:13:15for.

1:13:16>> That was number five.

1:13:17>> Number five,

1:13:18>> we got into peptides. Yeah.

1:13:19>> Yeah. We've done a question.

1:13:20>> Good thing we're not talking about

1:13:20psychedelics. We'll do that another

1:13:22time. We won't do them another time. Um

1:13:24I don't do psychedelics publicly.

1:13:26>> Listen, I'm open-minded. I did DM. I

1:13:28don't care.

1:13:28>> Not as openminded as you be if we do

1:13:30psychedelics. No.

1:13:31>> True.

1:13:31>> Uh you took you took DMT

1:13:33>> in a far away land where it was very

1:13:35legal cuz you know, I sit here and talk

1:13:37about these things and psychedelics. And

1:13:38I actually did work in a psychedelics

1:13:39company for about a year. But it was

1:13:40deeply deeply fascinating. And I the

1:13:42reason I was compelled by it is the

1:13:44efficacy as it relates to mental health

1:13:46and the studies being done out of London

1:13:48>> around things like, you know, psilocybin

1:13:50and ibeane and

1:13:52>> DMT treatments. And I just thought, wow,

1:13:54you know, it's unbelievable some of the

1:13:55clinical data. I'd love to learn more.

1:13:57So I did a psilocybin and then I did DMT

1:14:00and it was really just

1:14:02>> I've not done DMT.

1:14:03>> You've never done DMT?

1:14:04>> No. No. I've done um clinical um MDMA

1:14:08and psilocybin. I think I'm done with

1:14:10that. Not because I had a negative

1:14:11experience, but I got what I wanted out

1:14:13of it and um I found it to be immensely

1:14:15beneficial.

1:14:17>> The combination of therapy going in,

1:14:19therapy during and therapy coming out of

1:14:21of combination MDMAs psilocybin.

1:14:24>> Do you know what it it's one of the

1:14:25things that made me think a lot about

1:14:27religion?

1:14:28>> Mhm. [clears throat] was having a DMT

1:14:30experience where what I experienced felt

1:14:32indistinguishable from this reality in

1:14:33terms of the vividness and the the

1:14:35realness of it and me just pondering

1:14:37this this concept that a tiny little

1:14:39inhale of smoke could completely change

1:14:42my material reality. So therefore I

1:14:44concluded that my material reality is is

1:14:47literally but I mean tell me if my

1:14:49logic's wrong is a small amount of

1:14:51chemicals being uninterrupted. Does that

1:14:55make logical sense?

1:14:56>> Yeah. So I I think about this way too

1:14:58much. I guess we are going to talk about

1:14:59psychedelics, [laughter] reality and

1:15:00religion. Um couple short statements

1:15:02about this. You're I fascinated by this.

1:15:05I'd love to hear you talk more about it.

1:15:06But here are a couple ways that I think

1:15:08about it in a non um dismissive way.

1:15:12Most all of biology is just

1:15:15compartmentalized chemistry. So whether

1:15:17or not it's the flow of electricity

1:15:19along neural circuits to generate

1:15:21tenacity for instance or learning,

1:15:23you're just guiding chemistry in

1:15:25particular ways. Okay, that's not a way

1:15:26to trivialize it. It's kind of a way to

1:15:28think about it. There are two ways that

1:15:30you can change brain function, behavior,

1:15:33and chemistry. One is mechanical.

1:15:36I can breathe differently. I can get a

1:15:40massage, right? I could poke myself with

1:15:42a knife. Okay? So, there are mechanical

1:15:44forces that change our physiology. And

1:15:47then there are chemical forces,

1:15:48pharmarmacology, things we eat, and

1:15:50chemicals within us, serotonin, etc.

1:15:52That's really it. There's no other

1:15:54thing. In many ways, you're absolutely

1:15:57right. It's compartmentalized chemistry

1:15:59and mechanics and other chemicals are

1:16:01what control that chemistry. And

1:16:04I think organizing one's thoughts

1:16:07sometimes in that way can be helpful

1:16:09because you realize the stress response

1:16:11is really just a bunch of chemicals

1:16:12happening in certain places and so on. I

1:16:15personally am intrigued about the idea

1:16:18of things outside of our conscious

1:16:20understanding in biology that maybe

1:16:23things like DMT give us access to or

1:16:25maybe just prayer gives us access to or

1:16:27faith gives us access to. And it comes

1:16:29from my recognition both as a

1:16:32neuroscientist and just a human who's

1:16:33been alive for 50 years and some change

1:16:36that our biology and psychology, let's

1:16:40mold those together, are

1:16:44extraordinarily good at accomplishing

1:16:46certain things.

1:16:48But there are certain things that are

1:16:50outside the abilities of our psychology

1:16:54and biology. And if we are asking our

1:16:59psychology and biology to satisfy

1:17:02something that our psychology and

1:17:04biology simply cannot satisfy, we're

1:17:07going to miss out on a lot of potential

1:17:08meaning in life. And what I to be very

1:17:11direct about it like at the point where

1:17:12I decide to really embrace the idea of

1:17:15faith of a god, right? That there are

1:17:18powers outside of human understanding

1:17:21that can be very useful.

1:17:24everything got better. It It relieved me

1:17:27of the pressure to control everything

1:17:29internally and externally. And I find it

1:17:32not just intriguing, but absolutely

1:17:35captivating that

1:17:38a force outside of us, some people call

1:17:40it God, the universe, right? Some people

1:17:44might think it's Jesus. Some people

1:17:45might think it's something else might

1:17:48actually hold some power in how we could

1:17:53potentially behave, be better, be

1:17:55Wouldn't it be wonderful if there's this

1:17:56thing planted in us or some of us, which

1:17:59is a question about things outside of us

1:18:02that if we were to embrace

1:18:04could allow us to get to a better place

1:18:06as a species? Why would we think that a

1:18:09a technology like AI would do that? AI

1:18:11is wonderful, but why would we think

1:18:12that it would come from computers?

1:18:14That's of us, right? Why would we think

1:18:16it would come from anything that humans

1:18:18and only humans could do? To me, the

1:18:20embracing the notion of a God and having

1:18:22faith, which by the way is about having

1:18:25doubt, but still doing the the things,

1:18:27the practices, prayer is like to me one

1:18:30of the most liberating and educating

1:18:34thing not just about stuff of God in the

1:18:38universe, but about the human brain.

1:18:40Okay, I've got some questions.

1:18:41>> Yeah, I mean it's like we're not meant

1:18:43to solve this on our own.

1:18:45>> Do you believe in God?

1:18:46>> Absolutely.

1:18:47>> When did God come into your life?

1:18:50>> Very early, but I was very

1:18:54good at suppressing the notion that it

1:18:56was real. Like I would pray in private.

1:19:00I would hide it and um and not just in

1:19:03bad times. And then I think I lived

1:19:06enough and observed enough hardship.

1:19:08We've talked about some of this on a

1:19:09previous podcast. I talk a little bit

1:19:11about that in the book, but but I

1:19:12observed it out there, too, not just in

1:19:14my own life that I I started to realize,

1:19:17especially if you stick your hands in

1:19:19enough brains. And you see my good

1:19:22friend Eddie Chang record from the brain

1:19:24of a awake human and remove a tumor and

1:19:27save that person's life. And you also

1:19:29realize that brain areas are controlling

1:19:31things because when they're stimulated,

1:19:32that person feels and responds in a

1:19:34certain way. You realize that we're not

1:19:36all meat and potatoes in there. there's

1:19:38something

1:19:40else. But I'm not sure that it all comes

1:19:43from us. It's it's sort of hard to

1:19:44explain. The the best way I kind of

1:19:46wriggle out of this is that I I brought

1:19:49my dad on my podcast. My dad and I for

1:19:52many years had a choppy relationship. We

1:19:54have a great relationship now. He's 83

1:19:55years old. He's super vigorous. He loves

1:19:58ideas. He's into quantum, you know,

1:20:01quantum computing. And he he's a

1:20:04theoretical physicist, right? And I

1:20:07asked him to explain quantum mechanics.

1:20:08I go, "Okay, like tell my audience how

1:20:10relativity works." He worked on chaos

1:20:12theory. Okay, tell us how chaos works.

1:20:14And he said, "I'll do that, but you have

1:20:17to understand that one of the most

1:20:18important things about understanding

1:20:20quantum mechanics is that early on you

1:20:23are told and you learn that the human

1:20:26brain can't wrap its head around quantum

1:20:28mechanics with logic, with the with

1:20:30human understanding. You have to rely on

1:20:32the math." And he says anyone who talks

1:20:35about the quantum field who can't show

1:20:36you the math, can't show you the proofs,

1:20:38is lying. He loves it when people are

1:20:40like, "Oh, the quantum this and the

1:20:41quantum that is often is in like the

1:20:43meditative communities, but others too."

1:20:45And he goes, "People throw this word

1:20:46around because very few people actually

1:20:48understand quantum biology. There's gaps

1:20:50in there's some logic, but there's gaps

1:20:52in their logic that the math doesn't

1:20:53line up with.

1:20:54>> And the math doesn't lie." So what he

1:20:57was saying and we were having a

1:20:58discussion about God and he said yeah at

1:21:01some point if you're going to have faith

1:21:02in a higher power God you have to depart

1:21:06this notion that your logical brain can

1:21:08go from A to B to C and boom you're

1:21:10there but in quantum mechanics it's the

1:21:13same thing but on the basis of quantum

1:21:15mechanics you can build stuff you can

1:21:16engineer stuff in the real world like

1:21:18that red light or a rocket

1:21:21>> are you saying but you don't know all of

1:21:23this

1:21:23>> there's no math to prove this thing that

1:21:26I call my the existence of God. There's

1:21:29no math and it's not worth torturing

1:21:32yourself over. What I believe is worth

1:21:34torturing yourself over. And there's

1:21:37also great beauty in there is embracing

1:21:40the practice of prayer, embracing the

1:21:42questions and the like opening the

1:21:44aperture of your beliefs just for a

1:21:46moment going maybe I'm going to just

1:21:47believe in God for 10 seconds.

1:21:49>> See what that's like. And I started to

1:21:51experience beauty and experience um

1:21:54peace around not trying to control

1:21:57things that obviously were not under my

1:21:59control, not just within me, but in

1:22:00other people. And I really started to

1:22:02see what I could only describe as

1:22:04miracles. And by miracles, I mean I

1:22:08would pray for some indication of what

1:22:11the right path might be on something

1:22:13where it wasn't clear to me. And then

1:22:16two or three days later something would

1:22:18happen which would like seem almost

1:22:21completely unrelated and the answer

1:22:22would come in that thing. And then I

1:22:24just locked in. I'm like listen I'm a

1:22:26disciplined guy when I really want to

1:22:28be. I'm going to pray every night before

1:22:30I go to sleep. If I fall asleep I'll get

1:22:32out of bed and pray when I if I wake up

1:22:34in the middle of the night. I've not

1:22:35missed a night in nearly 3 years. I was

1:22:37recently invited up to Stanford to give

1:22:38a talk with Arthur Brooks who's a

1:22:40lifetime Catholic. He's in mass every

1:22:42morning. You know, he and I have very

1:22:43different experiences of God and

1:22:45religion. My family was mixed religion.

1:22:47I got to sit up there and just say,

1:22:48"Listen, I'm gonna tell you that I for

1:22:51sure am the person who's least

1:22:53knowledgeable, least versed in this

1:22:54room. But what I can tell you is my

1:22:56experience with prayer. What I can tell

1:22:58you is what I've observed in myself when

1:23:03I open the aperture for faith. The

1:23:06reason I did that talk is because our

1:23:08former director of neurosciences at

1:23:09Stanford um had written to me and said,

1:23:12'I think you should consider talking to

1:23:13this group. And he did some of the most

1:23:15important experiments in the history of

1:23:17neuroscience linking neuronal activity

1:23:19to perception. He really showed that if

1:23:21you stimulate certain brain areas,

1:23:22people perceive things a certain way

1:23:24regardless of what's happening out in

1:23:25the world. Mhm.

1:23:26>> Like there's a brain area I could

1:23:27trigger right now and I could show you a

1:23:29movie of a bunch of dots moving up and

1:23:32everyone here would be like, "They're

1:23:33moving up." And if I tickled the right

1:23:34neuron in your brain, you'd say,

1:23:36"They're going down." And like that's

1:23:38wild. Then I turn it off and you say,

1:23:39"Oh yeah, of course they're going up."

1:23:41Your understanding of the world is an

1:23:44abstraction

1:23:45that occurs inside your skull on the

1:23:47basis of photons that come in through

1:23:49your eyes, sound waves that hit your

1:23:51ears, mechanical forces that hit your

1:23:53skin, and chemicals that go in your

1:23:55nostrils and in your mouth. And then you

1:23:57create you abstract reality in here.

1:24:01Now, the laws of physics dictate how

1:24:04those things like photons have

1:24:06properties, sound waves have properties,

1:24:08and those are converted. they're

1:24:10transformed into signals. But then you

1:24:12abstract the world with enough

1:24:13accuracies that I can pick up this pen,

1:24:15>> okay, and not miss it, at least for now.

1:24:20So

1:24:21if you understand neuroscience that way,

1:24:24and then you go, we don't see infrared

1:24:26in this room because we don't have the

1:24:28sensors,

1:24:29>> but a pit viper does, does that mean

1:24:31that there's a god? No, not necessarily.

1:24:34That alone doesn't prove that. But what

1:24:37it does prove is that we only have

1:24:38access to the physical events in the

1:24:42world that we have the filters within us

1:24:45to extract which is a kind of

1:24:47mealymouthed way of saying you can't see

1:24:51it cuz you can't see it.

1:24:53>> You don't have the sensors. You can

1:24:54throw on infrared goggles and then you

1:24:56can see it. But that's a technology

1:24:58there. I don't think there will ever be

1:24:59the god goggles. The emotional goggles

1:25:02so to speak come from this thing that we

1:25:03call faith. Faith is the infrared

1:25:07goggles of of human understanding about

1:25:10why we're here. And the the challenge

1:25:12for people is I feel like people come in

1:25:14three categories. They they either at

1:25:16least three. They either would force

1:25:18religion in a bad way so they hate it.

1:25:21They never had access to it in a way

1:25:24that made them gently pulled toward it

1:25:26or you know they were like it was like

1:25:28people knocking on their door. It felt

1:25:30like a disturbance. And I, you know, I'm

1:25:31not against proilitizing if it's done

1:25:33kindly and with, you know, delicately.

1:25:36Or they are absolutely convinced that it

1:25:39can't be, which I look at as sort of a

1:25:41spiritual anorexia. You know, there are

1:25:43regions of the brain that when

1:25:44stimulated, people get a godlike exper

1:25:46the experience of God, not as

1:25:48themselves, but they feel it. You had

1:25:50this idea. And so people have said, "Oh,

1:25:52well then there's a God region of the

1:25:53brain, and it's just a brain region.

1:25:54It's just a brain region. That can't

1:25:56be." But we have brain regions. Arthur

1:26:00says this much more eloquently than I

1:26:01could. There are brain regions for

1:26:03thirst which in the philosophical

1:26:07way again this is coming from him not me

1:26:09would say well that proves the existence

1:26:11of water. The thirst proves the

1:26:14existence of water right. So I have a

1:26:17thirst circuit for gaining understanding

1:26:21of this thing that we call life and

1:26:24whatever comes after it. And in that

1:26:27thirst, I decided to open the aperture

1:26:30to the idea that it's that the thing,

1:26:33the stimulus, the water, the photons,

1:26:36I'm not able to extract that through

1:26:38thought, through my eyes, through my

1:26:41ears.

1:26:43Just like my dad couldn't come to

1:26:45understand quantum mechanics by thinking

1:26:46really hard about it, you have to do the

1:26:48math. And there are gaps in the in my

1:26:50reasoning here. Like it's not a perfect

1:26:52one to one, but also life's just so much

1:26:54better, man. I don't think anxiety

1:26:57sticks in us very long. If we we're

1:26:59feeling anxious, he pray God please like

1:27:01help me remove help me remove this. It's

1:27:03not do this for me. It's help me

1:27:06put energy in me to do the right things

1:27:08today. Put energy in me to serve people.

1:27:11I prayed before I came in here

1:27:13>> on get on my knees before every podcast

1:27:16guest or host and I prayed. I prayed for

1:27:18I just said please help me move my ego

1:27:21out of the room. We all have an ego.

1:27:24help me move my ego out of the room. I I

1:27:26would hope that people could learn

1:27:27useful information that might help them

1:27:28and that they would propagate that

1:27:30information. Please make sure that I

1:27:33maintain humility, maintain like help me

1:27:36help me strive for clarity and I also

1:27:40said and help Stephen and I do something

1:27:43that we're not predicting that would

1:27:44happen but you want us to happen that we

1:27:46don't understand. And maybe that's this

1:27:48part of the conversation, [laughter]

1:27:49right? Like you know, I don't know. And

1:27:52the point is not to know. It's also fun

1:27:54as a scientist who loves mechanisms and

1:27:55cells and circuits and neurom modulators

1:27:57and it's enriching to have a part of

1:27:59life that like I can just

1:28:02explore in like it's I like mysteries

1:28:06like science is about mysteries and it's

1:28:08about solving mysteries but it's also

1:28:09about being in awe of the the mystery

1:28:12and um I'm all in man. I mean I'm

1:28:15different allin than

1:28:18other people talk about being allin and

1:28:20I don't tell people what to do morally.

1:28:22I'm I'm really just trying to navigate

1:28:24my own my own path. But it is uh it's

1:28:28like one of the best things that ever

1:28:29happened to me. It's so liberating and

1:28:32life is still plenty hard. But I love

1:28:34it.

1:28:35>> It seems to be an antidote that a lot of

1:28:37people are reaching for now based on the