Intimitatea în cuplu după copil: cum vă reconectați | Cristian Necula

0:00The previous relationship no longer

0:02exists . It's clearly dead .

0:03What destroys intimacy more in a child ?

0:06You didn't do it , you didn't go , you

0:07didn't want to , I told you so and so ,

0:09it's like you're hitting something in

0:10me , it's like I already feel like

0:12defending myself the moment I start the

0:13discussion like that . There's a world

0:15of difference between physical sex and

0:17emotional sex . Obviously , I find it

0:19very hard to believe that people don't

0:21find 10 minutes to dwell on the

0:23solutions that you most often find the

0:25moment you take a step outside . First

0:27of all , there has to be love . How do I

0:29feel today ? What happened today ? What

0:31would I want from you ? What seems

0:32normal to me ? What did I like when you

0:34did something ? I feel like you're next

0:36to me , not that you're moving away from

0:37me . Welcome back , my dears , to a new

0:45edition of the Growing Up podcast . I am

0:47Ramona Păuleanu , as always your host ,

0:50and today I propose that we open the

0:52door wide , but very wide , and discuss a

0:54topic that is only spoken about in

0:56whispers , in whispers , in whispers , in

0:59whispers and possibly between best

1:01friends , because that's how it should

1:03be : about intimacy in a couple . Have I

1:05caught your attention , right ? Allow me

1:10to believe that most women when they

1:12become mothers forget to be women and

1:14become , I can't say just mothers

1:16because it is one of the most important

1:18roles in our lives , but they become

1:20mothers and that's about it . This

1:24translates into a deep chasm that is

1:29dug between the two life partners or

1:31between the two spouses and we end up

1:33living in the house with , at best , the

1:39roommate and , at worst , the enemy ,

1:41unless the two cases come together like

1:44this , because they do not coexist

1:46perfectly together . And my question was

1:54when you become a mother you lose your

2:00sensuality , you lose your desire under

2:06a pile of diapers and laundry . You are

2:09too overwhelmed by the fact that you

2:15have become shelter , food , a 24/7

2:17police officer to see the greatest

2:19dangers that can lurk for your child

2:25and especially if this is permanent or

2:27if as it came and goes . I cannot answer

2:33these questions alone , so I invited

2:36Cristian Necula , who is sexuality , to

2:38join me . I really like these French

2:44words , coach , English , engineer at the

2:50base , theologian , yes . And I will ask

2:56you to answer these questions because I

2:58understand that you are more talking

3:03about this intimate part or in short ,

3:05digging a little inside ourselves and

3:07you are not here to teach us sexual

3:09techniques , right ? That is what it is

3:13about .

3:13Exactly . Welcome first of all and thank

3:16you for agreeing to be with us .

3:18I thank you and I'm really glad to be

3:20here that I'm absolutely convinced that

3:22we're going to discuss some wonderful

3:24things

3:24and not in whispers , right ? And not

3:26between best friends just like between

3:28women . Let's

3:29hope not . Yes . That's right .

3:31Tell me please , first of all , it's a

3:33job , a calling , a leaning that I didn't

3:35know about . I mean , I didn't know it

3:37existed . I've heard of coaching , but

3:40in other aspects of life , like , life in

3:42general or

3:43in the profession ,

3:44coach , because it's full of coaches .

3:46Coach , yes , fitness coach .

3:48Exactly .

3:48But what exactly do you coach on this

3:50side of intimacy and sexuality ? When

3:53When should we come to you when what

3:55I've already said happens to us ?

3:58Ideally it would be a little earlier ,

4:00just like any process that you want me

4:02to start , don't go when it hurts . That

4:04wouldn't be appropriate . It's kind of

4:06like that here too . It's , I think it's

4:10a combination of factors , as you said ,

4:12it's a combination . In fact , it's not

4:14just a job in itself or just a calling .

4:17It's a combination of things that at

4:19some point bring you here . When you go

4:22into this consulting area and you want

4:24to go into the depths of the problems

4:25or the things you're discussing , about

4:27which you're discussing with the person

4:29in front of you , you have to

4:31have a calling . Otherwise it doesn't

4:34really work . if you're not there at the

4:36heart of the problem , right ?

4:40And then to answer your question

4:41directly , yes , ideally it would be for

4:43people to come a little earlier when

4:45they feel something is starting to

4:47creak . Not after it's creaking really

4:51badly and maybe starting to break ,

4:54because often it's a bit late , but when

4:56the creaking starts to be so slight

4:57that you can hear it , as you said , then

4:59we should go to someone and try to find

5:01answers for ourselves .

5:03Ok . Come on , tell me what I told you .

5:08It happens , I don't know , in a few

5:10cases women who give birth and forget

5:12to be women and become mothers .

5:16Couples who are no longer , in fact

5:18couples are those who are roommates and

5:20forget over the months , over the years

5:22to have any physical closeness . I mean ,

5:24I'm talking about

5:25science fiction or

5:26in any form . They are not

5:28known to you either .

5:29Very known . Look , I don't have an exact

5:32figure . I could say that it passes half

5:35for sure . It's interesting . We can see

5:38if there is a statistic here . I don't

5:40think so .

5:40Yes , there is definitely something .

5:42There is a statistic that says yes .

5:44There is a statistic when you end up

5:45getting divorced , which is related to

5:46this thing . Yes , yes , yes . That two of

5:48them couples end up getting divorced

5:50after the child is born .

5:52But not somewhere around there .

5:53That's why I say . Yes . So we pass half .

5:57So it's

5:59very , very common . It's very It's

6:04something that happens so often because

6:07changing roles , as you said earlier , is

6:09something natural . It's normal . Another

6:11person appears in the couple , another

6:13person appears , something else appears

6:15that actually grabs the attention , that

6:17changes the dynamic , that changes lives

6:20completely . That means a child , that

6:22means a new person , a new life in the

6:24couple . And no , from two there were

6:26three or maybe even more . Obviously

6:29everything is new and complex and you

6:31don't even know where to start most of

6:32the time .

6:33Hm . And at the heart of this whole

6:38experience , in this whole exploration

6:40of something new and a new place is

6:42communication . I know it sounds so

6:47cliché , but it really is the only

6:50magic pill if you want . You know

6:52everyone is looking for all kinds of

6:53recipes and quick things and if we

6:55could do something like that in a few

6:56seconds to change it would be

6:57absolutely wonderful . But there is no

6:59pill of this or something , I don't know

7:01, I don't know what ritual or some

7:02fantastic recipe . There

7:04is no such thing as no

7:05sex life .

7:07Yes , it's called communication . And to

7:12come to you and talk like I've never

7:13done before or to touch some points in

7:15me or to get some answers out of me

7:17that might hurt . I think that's worse .

7:22You know it's like sports . I don't

7:24really want to do sports , because I

7:25might get a fever , I'm sore , it's an

7:27effort , I'd rather sit , you know ?

7:29Obviously it's easier to sit than to do

7:31sports , right ? But when do you think a

7:33couple manages to sit down at a table

7:38and talk after the baby is born ? I mean

7:40, I think some months are chaos . I mean

7:43, we could let those months pass and

7:45then there's

7:46a deadline when you're like , wait a

7:48minute , let's talk about us too ,

7:50because that's

7:50it , we've brought him a little bit

7:52afloat . He's been six months . I don't

7:54know , I have no idea . I've

7:56definitely

7:56kept him alive up to this point .

7:58Yes . And it is and that is the duty . It

8:01is natural for it to happen like this .

8:03Now you know how it is , this period

8:05will not be the same for people because

8:07for all people , because every couple

8:09has a different dynamic . Maybe what

8:11means two months for me and my partner

8:13does not mean the same for you and your

8:15partner and so on .

8:19But I find it so hard to believe that

8:21in a couple if someone wants this , this

8:24hard conversation , you can't find 10

8:26minutes to talk . Not three more . At

8:29least we start the conversation today .

8:31Look , I want to talk about something .

8:33Let's sit for five minutes when the

8:34baby is in bed . I know you are tired . I

8:36am tired and you are tired .

8:38Five minutes . It is impossible . There

8:40is no way . It is impossible not to find

8:41five or 10 minutes . Do

8:42you think the mother is in the mood for

8:44something like this ? Who is the one who

8:45would initiate this conversation or who

8:47I think is the man ? No ,

8:48both of us . No , you can't really say

8:52that only one should start a discussion

8:54because I can't

8:56believe that only one could think about

8:58this discussion . I think that mothers ,

9:00at least for a period of time

9:02overwhelmed by I told you by everyone

9:05Yes .

9:06and the biological factors absolutely

9:08still don't even come

9:11or think about such a thing . You know ,

9:13up to a point when they start to think .

9:16If this period is longer or shorter ,

9:18that's it in the end . But at a certain

9:20point

9:21what does the desire do ? Does it die or

9:24does it sleep a little ? I think

9:27sleeping is a more correct word . Desire

9:29can't die , because it's very strange ,

9:31right ? Think about it this way , if we

9:33were to look from the outside and say

9:35that a child practically appears in

9:37life , in our life and at the same time

9:39the desire dies . It doesn't really make

9:41sense , does it ? This sentence , this

9:43phrase , seems to be based on nothing .

9:46But the role changes are what fuel this

9:48mourning , this death , let's say . So ,

9:53when I changed roles and I'm not who I

9:55was before , I don't know what happens

9:57because everything is new . No matter

9:59how much someone tells you , you never

10:01expect it . That's not actually the

10:02final answer . You're not prepared , you

10:05don't expect it to be so complex , so

10:07hard , so long , so x .

10:10It's when the role has changed , then

10:12your mind is no longer on this thing

10:14for that period , week , month , however

10:17long it lasts . But at some point you

10:21get used to the new role , the new

10:23dynamic and you can find a little

10:25resource . I'm not saying it's easy and

10:29I'm not saying it's going to happen the

10:31second week or the third month , by any

10:33means , but it's almost impossible not

10:35to find time at some point . Even if ,

10:39even if we say that you have the

10:41impression that in this whole dynamic

10:43you have to be absolutely everywhere

10:45and the five extra minutes of sleep

10:47would save humanity from , I don't know ,

10:50a tired person in any way . It would

10:53save you in that story and you and your

10:55partner , so the couple , right ? Well ,

10:57wait a minute , you were talking just

10:58now . I'm making some connections and

11:02that we should talk and that a period

11:03of mourning . I mean , wait a minute ,

11:05what have we lost or what is this

11:08mourning for ? There is such

11:13a very important element here when

11:14partners start a new path . The previous

11:18relationship no longer exists . It has

11:20clearly died . The two of them are no

11:22longer just two . From now on , there are

11:24three . Because that's natural . There is

11:26no other option . I mean , we can go back

11:28to some pieces of what we were before ,

11:30but we will never be the same again . We

11:32can tend to be very close or we can

11:34even be a better version . But let's not

11:37stay anchored in the two people who

11:39were in a certain way , in a dynamic

11:40that no longer exists . As long as

11:42there's an extra person , it no longer

11:44exists . And then I notice this in

11:48conversations with people very often ,

11:50they very easily return to the previous

11:52version that no longer exists . It's not

11:55over , the chapter is closed , the

11:56catalog is effectively closed and the

11:58so-and-so class is over , don't go

11:59through it anymore , don't go through it

12:01anymore because you have no reason to

12:02go through it anymore , you know ? It's

12:04kind of like that . So it's important to

12:07somehow make peace with that story .

12:10We're not there anymore , but let's see

12:12what we can be , maybe even better than

12:14what we had initially . Maybe we can

12:17even be a more beautiful , more

12:19interesting , more dynamic couple , more

12:21like they want .

12:22I think it digs the most at the

12:23foundation of the couple .

12:29If we had to think of a single word ,

12:31when you say can refer to what ? What

12:33hurts the most or what should

12:36destroy the intimacy in a couple the

12:38most ? Let's take them one by one

12:42because there are several more aspects

12:44that I want to touch on . Uncommunicated

12:48expectations , I have , I like to say

12:50this quite often , because

12:52uncommunicated expectations are the

12:54displayed premeditations , let's say .

13:02You know , when there are premeditated

13:04disappointments , excuse me , it's the

13:06exact moment when I don't tell you what

13:08I want from you , what expectations I

13:10have from you ,

13:12a disappointment is automatically

13:14created there . Because the chances of

13:16you falling exactly at the moment I

13:18want are very small . and , from the

13:23roles , the expectations in the role

13:25that they have , that each one has in

13:27their part , together with a

13:28communication that is slightly

13:30defective most of the time and we have

13:32to admit that we end up in these

13:34moments .

13:35slightly much defective .

13:37Maybe I was more subtle like that , yes ?

13:39Let's say slightly defective . We reach

13:42the point where we are very

13:43disappointed that things are not as we

13:45imagined ,

13:47but without naming them .

13:48Well , that's what happens . No , I don't

13:50know exactly . I mean , I know roughly

13:52how I would have liked them to be , but

13:54I didn't tell you , nor do I want to do

13:56them .

13:57Obviously , no . You didn't do it , you

13:59don't verbalize it , and somehow I do

14:01nothing but put frustrations in a big

14:03bag like this and carry it with me

14:05everywhere . And that's how the

14:07discussions in the couple appear ,

14:09that's how the moments when I feel the

14:11need to detach myself from you appear .

14:14That's how these lenses and

14:16perspectives that we put on the other

14:18person appear , that they're not enough ,

14:20that they've changed , that they weren't

14:22there the way I wanted them to be , that

14:24they're no longer what I thought they

14:26could be , and so on , under the same

14:28umbrella . So , as I was saying at the

14:33beginning , communication is the most

14:35important point that I would like to

14:39tattoo here somewhere , right ? Let's

14:41tattoo it , let's write it in stone , if

14:43possible ,

14:44because not everyone knows how to

14:48communicate and it's perfect , natural

14:50and normal . It's not wrong not to know .

14:52It's more wrong not to want to give an

14:54example of

14:56Well , look , let's go with the classic ,

14:58right ? What do you sit down at the

15:00table and say what ? Well ,

15:04I feel like we've drifted apart and I

15:06see that we don't have our moments

15:08anymore or what ? We don't have sex

15:10anymore or what ? I'll

15:12tell you straight . Look , there are real

15:14cases in the office . If someone , if a

15:17partner , says this , the other one will

15:19come and say : " Well , but you don't want

15:21to ? Well , but I told you and you didn't

15:23. Well , I thought you understood when I

15:26first told you this . " Again , this is a

15:28very important thing , so , let's go back

15:30to the immediate . There is already a

15:33dynamic that is like dynamite . I can't

15:36wait to get into this story and feed

15:38off of it because I'm frustrated , I

15:40don't know how to tell you , I feel

15:41terrible , I feel like you're not

15:43helping me , I feel like you don't

15:45understand me . And more than that ,

15:47let's go back to what you were saying

15:48initially , I have the impression that

15:50I'm the only one or the only one going

15:51through something like this . And there

15:55are two edges here . First of all , no

15:57mother is the only one going through

15:59something like this . Let's be serious ,

16:01you realize that look , right now there

16:03are about 2 billion mothers . For you to

16:05think that you are the only one going

16:07through something out of 2 billion is

16:12psychotherapy , like let's not give it a

16:14bad label , but actually thinking that

16:16you're the only one going through

16:18something bad means that you're not

16:19connected to life .

16:21Most people go through the same thing .

16:23It's just

16:24something natural . Almost everyone goes

16:26through the same thing , less or more or

16:28if the intensity is different , you go

16:30through it anyway .

16:36On the other hand , when we somehow

16:38normalize this story by comparison , it

16:40feeds the other area that we want here .

16:45I mean , we feel bad . What does it mean

16:47if I feel bad ? I get to the point where

16:49I talk to you too , I talk to X and X

16:51says the same thing . Well , it's the

16:53same story for me . For two months , the

16:55guys have been talking to each other

16:57and saying : " Well , I haven't had sex

16:58with my girlfriend for I don't know how

17:00long . I haven't had sex with my wife

17:02for six months , for me for eight and so

17:04on .

17:04Having these examples ,

17:06exactly . Yes . Well , we are somehow

17:09normalizing by comparison this whole

17:11story . So if maybe it's better for him

17:12than for me six , for him eight , you

17:14know ? I still have two , maybe I can do

17:16something , maybe who knows , you know ?

17:18and you think like this , well , there's

17:19still a glimmer of hope as if there

17:21were . But that's not natural either .

17:23You know you get to that point where

17:25you say if it's happening everywhere ,

17:26what should I do about it ? Well , maybe

17:28it's normal , but it's not normal as

17:30long as it doesn't feed you , because

17:32that's what it's about in the end , not

17:34about aligning with some kind of trend

17:36from this collective , like , where we

17:37clearly say that this is how it's done

17:39or this is not done . Obviously we also

17:41have some directions , that we know

17:43roughly how the earth has been

17:45functioning for some years now , but the

17:47desires are not the same . The emotional

17:49is not exactly the same for all people .

17:52And then , going over this resignation ,

17:54I would say that there's nothing you

17:56can do about it because it's something

17:58very harmful to say that you actually

18:00don't have what to do . I find it very

18:03hard to believe that there are no

18:05solutions . I would say that there are

18:06not many things that you can't find a

18:08solution to , you know ? except for a

18:10death . That's harder , but otherwise

18:12there has to be a solution somehow , we

18:15have to find it together , otherwise we

18:17know where we're going . I mean , we're

18:19right on the edge of the abyss , as you

18:21said initially , of the abyss and what

18:22do we do ? Do I push you , don't I push

18:24you ? You know , that's where we end up .

18:27So didn't you

18:31say not to start the discussion like

18:33that , that's how we don't

18:34start and how do you start it if it's

18:36not like that ? It's necessary for the

18:38other , for each partner somehow , for

18:40each side to come to the other first . I

18:43mean , I don't have to wait for you , but

18:44I would like to come to you . No matter

18:47how hard it is , no matter how complex

18:49it is , it's the formula that helps you .

18:51Because , the moment I come and tell you

18:53as you said : you didn't do n , you went ,

18:55you didn't want to you , I said and

18:56still a denial , and somehow it's like a

18:58... as if you're hitting something

19:00inside me , as if I already feel like

19:01defending myself the moment I start the

19:03discussion like that , right ? Obviously

19:05I don't really feel like aligning

19:07myself with your discussion .

19:10And then let me be here for you . Let me

19:12understand you . Let me understand your

19:14desire . Let me understand where you are

19:16. Because maybe I don't realize it .

19:18Especially a man , at least in the first

19:20months when it's the most complex and

19:21difficult . I would like to know where

19:23you are and what you are and what's

19:24happening to you at this moment . Not to

19:26have expectations , because it's very

19:27easy to have expectations from you . And

19:29then here's a gesture like that that I

19:31use very often . It's better if I come

19:33to you with my hands and offer you

19:35things , but you have to tell me what to

19:36put here . Tell me what you need . Tell

19:39me how I could be there for you . Tell

19:41me what I can do physically . There are

19:43some things I can't do . Look at how it

19:45is to care for a child in the first

19:46months . There is no way . A man cannot

19:49replace the care that a mother has .

19:51That's the process , that's the dynamics

19:53of the moment . There are some months

19:55when you don't really have anything to

19:56do .

19:56Yes . After this story passes or even

19:59during this period I could do something

20:01else for you . I could make things

20:03easier for you . I could simply be

20:05closer . Maybe just if I listen to you

20:07and tell me all the nonsense or

20:08everything that goes through your head

20:10at that moment , maybe that's enough .

20:12Yes .

20:13And many times it really is enough . I

20:15mean you tell me all your moods , all

20:17your emotions , all your feelings , all

20:19your thoughts from black and white and

20:21from top to bottom , as you want . You

20:24know what the thought led me to

20:26regarding what you said so far

20:31that first of all there must be love . I

20:34mean it's most important that there be

20:36love . Because if you have managed to

20:39turn yourself into an enemy in a few

20:41months and the same thing happens this ,

20:43I think it's

20:44not that all is lost , that maybe all is

20:46not lost , but it's much more difficult .

20:49Almost everything . That's right . That

20:51this is the limit I was talking about

20:52earlier , that if you don't take a

20:54little time , when you start to get

20:56embarrassed , then you should somehow

20:57think that we need to do something . The

21:00moment I see that things are not ok ,

21:02once or twice , I should communicate

21:04them . these unfounded expectations , as

21:07I was saying earlier , that they are

21:09really just premeditated

21:11disappointments ,

21:13do nothing but build a worse version of

21:15myself , which takes me to a point where

21:17I will actually see your flaws and it

21:19will be worse and worse . Something that

21:22I really would like people to

21:24understand and not do this . Actually

21:25when it hurts the least , when something

21:27is strange , let's talk , I don't like

21:29that we are in this strange discussion ,

21:30it seems to me that actually it's not

21:32the normal dynamic . Let me tell you

21:34again what you were referring to . Maybe

21:35I didn't understand it right , maybe I

21:37want to understand it better . Let me

21:39tell you again . Let me do this thing

21:41again . Show me again , explain it to me

21:43again . There's something else here and

21:46I want to point out like this in this

21:48thread with a lot of people and men and

21:54women I've discussed the things they

21:56expect from the other and my question

21:58is natural by the way , are you really

22:00sure he knows ? Well , but I told him

22:06this Well , but I told him once or twice

22:08it's You have the impression so it

22:10should be like a kind of I don't know ,

22:12a general rule of life , you know ? As

22:14long as I told you once , you're not

22:15allowed to deviate from something like

22:17that . What

22:18sentence and you didn't understand

22:19a kind of sentence like that . Yes , it

22:21seems so so serious . There are so many

22:23things that people generally forget and

22:25don't forget on purpose . I just maybe

22:27had a bad timing , maybe I didn't give

22:29it the same importance ,

22:31maybe I didn't give it the same

22:33importance ,

22:33right ? Or maybe for me what you say in

22:35this story doesn't have the same

22:37meaning . Look , I'll give you another

22:39example that I give very often , so I

22:41think it's fantastic . A lady came in

22:45discussing a problem like this about

22:46how she can't get along with her

22:48husband anymore because he doesn't

22:50listen to her . Ok . What does it mean

22:52that he doesn't listen to you ? Well , I

22:54tell him that I'm hungry and he brings

22:56me chocolate . Here are the details of

23:01the problem . Let's think about who is

23:03who and who is the culprit . You know

23:04how we like to find a culprit somehow ?

23:06Who is to blame in this story here ? As

23:08long as he came up with something , it

23:09means he's listening to you . He didn't

23:11come up with what you wanted . Maybe he

23:13started from you wrong . Maybe he didn't

23:15ask the question properly either . You

23:16know ? Let's see what's happening here .

23:18In fact , it's a communication that

23:20works on two levels . You know how ?

23:22There are two planes that shouldn't

23:23touch , one above and one below , but

23:25they both go ,

23:26right ?

23:26Yes . It's

23:27kind of like that here . As long as we

23:29don't have exactly the same direction ,

23:31what does food mean , what does hunger

23:32mean , do you hear me , don't you hear me

23:34, it's clear , it's not clear , the

23:36chances of something like this

23:37happening are extraordinarily high . And

23:39that happens very often . It's about

23:40clear communication . How do you want me

23:43to be next to you ? Hold me in your arms

23:45, kiss my forehead , pull my hair , take

23:47me here , take me from here , stay next

23:49to me . You're saying some things now .

23:51How can we talk about How can we talk

23:53about something like this ? Because we

23:56are still the children of people raised

23:58in communism and in Seriously now you

24:00want to communicate , meaning we're not

24:02capable of saying that I'm sad

24:06that you're ashamed . You can't tell me

24:08do you hear pull my hair or what's

24:09wrong with you , Neică ? What's wrong

24:11with you , father ?

24:12Neică . Yes , exactly . Yes , yes , yes .

24:15Nenea exactly as I say . I mean

24:16seriously what you're saying is

24:18complicated . Well , doing the same thing

24:20, nothing will change . And it's simple

24:23if you think about it , right ? To tell

24:25the man very clearly , almost like a

24:27child what he has to do . It's not hard

24:29at all . We're just not used to this

24:31story . That's something very

24:34But tell me who's more men or women ? S

24:39very curious . Yes . Women and it's

24:43natural because they have the patience

24:45segment so the patience tank is smaller

24:47. Patience and tolerance .

24:50What do you mean patience is smaller ?

24:52So that's where

24:53women come in women would like to solve

24:55a problem faster and it's better . The

24:58man has a longer tolerance

25:00or maybe I'll give you another example

25:02now . He finds this intimacy elsewhere

25:08and the mother finds the love she needs

25:10and everything she needs emotionally

25:12speaking elsewhere .

25:17M

25:18I mean the mother

25:20finds in the child

25:21H

25:22and the father I don't know where finds

25:24. Well , don't get me wrong , I'm not

25:27saying you're

25:28cheating or But

25:31it's good to say this because there are

25:33two aspects here . Probably in Actually

25:35not probably , certainly in some cases

25:37there is this situation that you're

25:39talking about . Yes , I find myself

25:41elsewhere . And then I resigned myself a

25:43little to the story at home . I

25:46normalized what I was saying , what I

25:48was telling earlier . These are things ,

25:50that's how they are , you can't do

25:51anything about it . and I normalized

25:53life , but I find my happiness elsewhere

25:55. Maybe this is also a variant and we

25:58know that it exists . On the other hand ,

26:02at home , let's say as you said , there

26:04is this I don't know how to how to give

26:10it I would like to give it a stronger

26:11title like that . It's a It's a

26:16different channeling of human needs

26:18because at the same time the child is

26:20the one who replaces the mother's needs

26:22most of the time . I mean we're talking

26:28about

26:28or comes to meet her needs .

26:30Ã Yes , it's there and then it's

26:33natural that you have love is there ,

26:35you don't have to tell him anything .

26:37there is control , you have status , you

26:39have belonging , you have practically

26:40everything in one person . You know why

26:42not focus on this story when everything

26:44is working well , especially if things

26:46are already creaking with the husband .

26:48It's hard to fix , most of the time it's

26:50hard to fix , you know ? And then where

26:52it's already working and it's ok and

26:53the child is small there , I'm barely

26:55modeling , as if I would go there more

26:58carefully . I probably wouldn't , that's

27:01what most mothers say . I would go more

27:03into this story . it nourishes me better

27:04what's happening here . But yes ,

27:06obviously it nourishes you better ,

27:08because no , it's natural for it to

27:10happen like that . But there's a very

27:12dangerous edge on the other side . It's

27:17a sickly relationship in which the

27:19mother changes , practically replaces

27:21her needs that she can get from the

27:23outside , as is natural by the way , and ,

27:25she only gets them from the child . It

27:29becomes a relationship that is not ,

27:31it's not healthy at all , because the

27:33father already , slowly , slowly , begins

27:35to disappear from that story and then

27:37she is with her status and her mission .

27:40Basically , there is only one mission to

27:42be a mother , which is not recommended

27:44at all .

27:44I think neither for her , nor for the

27:46woman , nor for the child .

27:47Yes ,

27:48first of all for the child . You know

27:51that in the end the purpose of parents

27:52is one and clear and as simple as

27:54possible to be an example for your

27:56children . You raised him , I mean , you

28:00made him and you have to be the purest

28:02example possible , as you can at that

28:04moment for him . Making this story like

28:08this or , I mean , feeding this story

28:09that I was talking about earlier , is in

28:11no way a good example because he sees a

28:13completely different dynamic from what

28:15it is in reality . The moment he leaves

28:17the house he encounters dragons ,

28:19monsters , what do you want , a world

28:21that is totally hostile , right ? And we

28:24have another very important aspect here

28:26. the role of the father . The moment I

28:32feed my needs as a mother from this

28:34whole story that is very important to

28:36me at hand , the role of the father

28:38begins to be increasingly diminished .

28:42Which is , again , equally as dangerous

28:45because there is no I mean , the world

28:47is made of men and women and then each

28:49one has their role very clearly and

28:51very precisely . You can't replace the

28:56role of a man in a healthy relationship

28:58, in a healthy dynamic , with absolutely

29:00nothing . There are a few cases , but I

29:05don't want to put them as variants

29:07because there are always

29:08particularities and being very small

29:10percentages , we don't go there . First

29:12we go to what is general and then we

29:14see if in fact , I mean , there is also

29:16this tendency of man to say , yes , but

29:18maybe I am part of an exception . No ,

29:20let's not be part of the exception

29:22first and we'll see later . The role of

29:28the father is ultra important in this

29:30story and if it is not understood by

29:31the mother , she will come up with some

29:33variants that are super sick later . You

29:38can't replace the role of the father

29:39with anything . What do you replace it

29:41with ? With status , with masculinity ,

29:44with what ? with a very masculine woman

29:48who again shows comes with a pretty bad

29:50model in front of the child , it's not

29:52healthy .

29:54But on the other hand , the father

29:55shouldn't confuse his role now only

29:57with that of a provider . I mean ,

29:59the mother takes care of the child and

30:01I bring money into the house because I

30:03don't think that's

30:04in any way . We're going back

30:06in the past .

30:07We're not very far . I mean , yes , there

30:10are some fundamental things , but there

30:12are some percentages somehow for each .

30:14I have to do that up to a point . I have

30:16to be there . I have a duty . I have to

30:18be empathetic with the child . Not that

30:20I have to be in my feminine energy to

30:21take him in my arms . I can't tell him

30:23to pee from 4:00 to 6:00 . That's it . No

30:25, there's no such thing . It can't be

30:27like that . Especially when the child is

30:29small . I mean , no matter how much order

30:31and discipline you want as a man and as

30:33a male , let's say , in the family , you

30:34don't have to you also play on that

30:36dynamic . How strange it is now that

30:39lately I only hear that the mother is

30:43the one with the discipline and the

30:44father is the

30:46party . That's how I

30:47see it . I mean because they are the

30:49ones missing the most from home , you

30:51know ? And when I'm with the children

30:52it's

30:54a joy and a holiday like that and the

30:56mother is doing this and that and the

30:57program . That's it . I hear that around

31:00me

31:02and but that's correct to an obvious

31:04point that the child needs to see both

31:05options . I mean it's the father's is

31:08essential . Yeah .

31:11Yeah . And it's also to emphasize it

31:13here . I mean there shouldn't be no

31:15option to replace it because there's no

31:17longer a male figure there . Because the

31:19father really disappeared for x reasons

31:21.

31:22Either he's gone , or he disappeared , or

31:25something happens . That's another

31:28aspect . She should somehow be replaced

31:30with other family members or close

31:32members . I mean there are always some

31:34male figures . But from the start , for

31:38you as a mother to consider that you

31:40can manage without a male figure is

31:42like a sentence . That's right . If You

31:50allow me , it's not It seems like it's

31:52the end when you say give me some clear

31:54exercises or some ways in which you can

31:56reconnect ,

31:58but give them to me , please , because

32:00I'm out of patience and then we'll

32:02discuss other aspects . So please tell

32:05me , please , what are some simple

32:07exercises or you know , you

32:09have to have a lot of time for them ,

32:10this time , you know , is a cause , that

32:12is , everyone says I don't have time for

32:14something like that . I mean , it's

32:16even simpler to

32:17put the baby to bed , wash the baby , put

32:18the baby to bed , feed him and so on .

32:20I'm tired . What time do I have ? Why do

32:22I have time ? You know how it is in

32:27general in life , it's not about the big

32:29things , it's about the little things

32:31that really change the overall picture .

32:34No , it doesn't mean that from now on or

32:36the man who looks at us and listens to

32:38us here and says , okay , I know what I

32:39have to do , changes his life completely

32:41. At 90 ° everything changes , we

32:43renovate the house . The military is

32:45taken down from the attic and so on , in

32:47no way . It's about small gestures that

32:50changes everything . but in general and

32:56outside of this context of family ,

32:59mother , father , child , etc. , people

33:01need very very little encouragement ,

33:04very little support . They don't need

33:07very much . Just knowing that you're

33:09here for me is something that most of

33:11the time changes everything . It changes

33:13the whole evening , it changes the

33:15dynamics of the moment . But it takes

33:18some vulnerability , it takes openness ,

33:21honesty , everything that intimacy means

33:26in the end . Let me come and tell you

33:29for you , no matter what happens , I want

33:31to make this work . The first point I

33:35would put on the table is awareness of

33:37the situation . Let's see what has

33:39changed . I realize that it has changed .

33:41Look , we're talking , we're at the table

33:43, the baby has gone to bed right now .

33:45Let's discuss what you think has

33:47changed , because I don't want to sound

33:49strange , but we're not exactly the same

33:51as we were before . You feel the same

33:53way too . You can't say no . Obviously

33:55you're not going to say yes .

33:56Well , What ? If a scandal breaks out of

33:59this , tell me what does that mean ? What

34:01do you mean , it's not the same anymore ?

34:04It

34:04can't be . It's impossible . There's

34:07someone from the state . Let's see if

34:09we're okay here . Look , I'm telling you

34:11that 80 % is okay , but 20 % or the

34:13percentages don't even matter , it's

34:15like I'm missing something . Let's call

34:18this desire . Let's call it lack , let's

34:21call it the problem itself . Look what I

34:23think is happening here . You say it , I

34:25say it .

34:27But don't you think gestures would work

34:28better than words ? In some cases ,

34:31certainly , but if I don't know exactly

34:34what you need , I might ... Look at the

34:36dynamics , what I was talking about

34:38earlier : I come , I hug you , but maybe

34:40you need some words at that moment or

34:42maybe you just don't need me to hug you

34:44, or maybe you're so tired and really

34:48want to go to bed , let's say , that a

34:50kissing or hugging so hard it's like ...

34:53you don't really want this thing then ,

34:55because you're tired , not that you

34:56don't like it that much . He can simply

34:59say , um , you stay with the baby for an

35:00hour and leave me with these hugs . I

35:02mean I need something else , not

35:04Obviously , obviously . I mean in the

35:06moment

35:06Yes . See better you say .

35:08In the moment when I know what you need

35:10, I know how to be there for you and

35:11vice versa . The expectations I was

35:15talking about earlier are exactly these

35:17in which I believe that if you're okay

35:19and you go to bed with the baby or who

35:21knows what you're doing , it means it's

35:23good , that you say otherwise , right ?

35:25Especially since men work a little

35:27simpler . As long as you haven't told me

35:29, it means you don't want to or that

35:30it's good or that it's ok . With women ,

35:32the process is a little more complex .

35:38Let's name them , let's put them on the

35:40table , let's sit for 10 minutes and

35:41let's somehow propose to we make this

35:43thing work better . Already the moment

35:46we have a direction there is a tension

35:48that no longer feels the same in the

35:50body . It means that this man is next to

35:52me , it means that he wants evolution .

35:53It means that he wants to fix , solve or

35:56do better . Maybe not everything is

35:58fixable . Not everything is actually

35:59terrible in a relationship . How the

36:01child appeared , that's it , it's crime

36:03and punishment .

36:04There are just new dynamics that people

36:06don't know how to think about , like

36:07when you go to a new job . The first six

36:09months you have the impression that

36:10what you did is totally different from

36:12what it was before . You don't feel like

36:14you're

36:14an impostor . What am I doing here ? Or

36:16that

36:16you're an impostor . You feel totally

36:18inadequate in this story . Those people

36:19do anything in three minutes and you

36:21feel like you're the ultimate sucker . I

36:22mean , gee , but why don't I understand ?

36:24No. And then at work no one comments on

36:26this story , they just say , ok , I'll

36:29learn , it'll be ok . On the other hand ,

36:31in a relationship the expectations are

36:33from a completely different area , right

36:35?

36:35Yes .

36:35Well , is that natural ? It's not natural

36:38, let's be serious . So once you put

36:43them on the table and name them , you

36:45try to put them on the table as clearly

36:47as possible for both of you . Let's see

36:50what needs to be done . What does it

36:52mean to you that you don't have time ,

36:53what can I do for you in this story ? Do

36:55you want me to do something ? There are

36:56things that I can't do , but also things

36:58that I can do . Or if you feel like you

37:00need a little rest , maybe I can do

37:02something extra on top of everything I

37:04was doing until then . And just the idea

37:06itself that I'm coming to help you and

37:08I'm like this with my hands towards you

37:10, you know ? Just this gesture . Let's

37:12Let's Let's try to do something . Not to

37:13be on guard in any way , because this

37:15story is not about being on guard . Let

37:17me be there for you as much as I can .

37:22I'm absolutely sure and I guarantee

37:24that it already leaves the tension of a

37:26potential conflict or a heated

37:28discussion .

37:30You know what ? Why do I think men and

37:34women still hit each other in couples ?

37:38Mothers , fathers ? What else have I read

37:42about this courtesan syndrome or

37:44Madonna syndrome .

37:46Hm .

37:47You know what I mean , right ?

37:49Yes . The

37:52changes that take place in women's

37:54bodies .

37:55Yes . self-esteem that probably drops

38:00the extra pounds , the fact that you no

38:02longer want to be seen as you were , the

38:04fact that your body has turned into a

38:06food source for someone else . I mean ,

38:10you know , I'm Let me

38:11give you such a really cool insight

38:13here because it's

38:14Yes

38:16in a I don't have a fixed percentage

38:18here , but it's a very high percentage .

38:23If you ask a woman how she feels in her

38:25new body , the answers are probably nine

38:27out of 10 terrible , because it seems to

38:29her that it's not what it was before

38:31and that it's awful , not that it's

38:33simply a body that has gone through a

38:35natural transformation . If among men

38:39it's

38:39not natural if you look at Instagram

38:41where everyone is 20.

38:42Well , we don't look . Why do we look at

38:44Instagram ? That's what you see the bad

38:46report . It

38:47hits you . You know that it says that

38:49I'm not capable .

38:52Yes , but we know that it's a There are

38:54profiles made for this . It has nothing

38:56to do with reality . No.

38:58Yes . Come on , come on , let's get back

39:00to That . So how do you feel terrible

39:02like this ,

39:02if we ask men , it's by no means the

39:04same percentage . There's probably one

39:07in 10 who will say , but maybe I don't

39:09particularly like it and one maybe a

39:11little more picky or maybe something

39:13was very important to him . But in most

39:17cases this story only happens in

39:19women's heads . The fact that there is a

39:22scar , the fact that the body shapes are

39:25a little different because they are not

39:27always from single to double or

39:28something like that , that is , they are

39:30not such fantastic deformations . Plus ,

39:33this thing is somehow a loop . I mean ,

39:36yes , at first things are more deformed ,

39:38then they return to normal in many

39:40cases .

39:41Hm . But we start from the idea that you

39:44should know how to plant a tree , I

39:46expect it to bear fruit in two days .

39:49It's kind of like that here . What do we

39:51expect ? Let's go back to what it was

39:53before in a day or two or so I got out

39:55of the hospital and ready to be as

39:57fresh and vibrant as I was 15 years ago

39:59. It's impossible . I mean , we both

40:02enter this story knowing that it is

40:04natural for something to happen , for a

40:06change to happen . Moreover , the

40:09awareness that most of the time the

40:11problem is not with the man and it is

40:13in the woman's head should kind of

40:14change the dynamic between them a

40:16little . Why don't they ask girls in

40:20this case or women ? Why don't they ask

40:22you , do you think it's ok or not ?

40:24Honest or not ? Because if I don't

40:25answer you honestly , in the end it's my

40:27problem that I should have been honest

40:28with you , that this means being a

40:30couple , right ? But at least you know ,

40:32at least you know what's happening

40:33because otherwise everything remains

40:35here in an imaginary area .

40:38Okay . Or maybe you don't need proof if

40:42you see that there's the same closeness

40:44or the same Here ,

40:45look , if there's the same closeness ,

40:46then things are actually ok , that no

40:48one approaches you if they don't like

40:50it , right ? And now coming back to the

40:52exercises , that I still want something

40:54else from you . Ok , let's talk , let's

40:56talk . Give me examples of other

41:00exercises in which let's teach me to

41:02awaken a little that desire or

41:04sensuality or pleasure or whatever I

41:06call it , femininity or how these things

41:08awaken .

41:12First we take out what you throw away

41:14on that pile of

41:16diapers or laundry like that . And what

41:18do you find there ? What ? Where do you

41:20have to dig ?

41:22First of all we talk about what hurts

41:24or what we don't like at the moment

41:25because somehow we start from a clean

41:27base . We know where we're starting from

41:30, we're okay , I know what we have , I

41:32know what I have to do , I know what we

41:34both have to do and things are already

41:35much healthier . We can build on this

41:37story . Two , I would say that the time

41:41allocated like on the calendar is and

41:43is absolutely magical . The moment the

41:48two of us establish that we have a

41:50ritual , that it's about sitting for

41:52five minutes over coffee , that we do

41:54what we used to do , that I want to show

41:56you that I'm connecting with you again ,

41:57not that I'm getting into that routine

41:59of lists and debts and , effectively , a

42:05to do list with things that someone has

42:07to check off that day . That's what the

42:09dynamic looks like after that . We sit

42:10down at the table and don't talk about

42:12bills and kindergartens and

42:13a few minutes . I'm absolutely convinced

42:15that everyone finds time . Let's talk

42:17about the two of us . How are you ,

42:19what's going on , sit next to me , let's

42:21have coffee , let's continue to be in

42:23this story because we both realize that

42:25it's a different dynamic . Not just me

42:27or just you , it's obvious . So this time

42:30allocated now at this time I want to

42:31drink coffee together , I want to try to

42:33watch something together , I want to

42:35talk about something . The most

42:37important thing is to actually sit with

42:39nothing behind me , just talk . How am I

42:40feeling today ? What happened today ,

42:42what I would like from you , what seems

42:44normal to me , what I liked when you did

42:45something . Another super important

42:47thing , the moment someone does

42:49something good , no matter how banal and

42:51simple it is , it's good for your

42:52partner to say to themselves : I liked

42:54that you came to me and helped me right

42:56when I needed it . I liked that you came

42:58and that you closed the door slowly . I

43:00liked that you made the bed in the

43:01morning , that you did things that maybe

43:03you wouldn't have done before . The

43:05little things are the little details .

43:07Well , again we go back to that story

43:09that you want to talk about what we

43:11haven't talked about before .

43:12Yes .

43:13You know , you want to You want to take

43:15out the magic pill now ,

43:17to talk about feelings .

43:19Yes . Does it seem complicated to you if

43:21we were to take it like this just to

43:22start talking ? I know it's not in the

43:24sense that

43:25Yes , it's complicated . Yes , but let's

43:27put it , let's put it in perspective .

43:29What do you gain versus what do you

43:30lose ? You can lose everything . That's

43:32true . Yes ,

43:33you can gain everything . It's

43:34complicated . It's complicated . I

43:36maintain the opinion , but that you have

43:39benefits , the biggest real benefits ,

43:41yes , I agree .

43:42Exactly . So by doing nothing , clearly

43:45nothing will change . I mean , these

43:47expectations do nothing but build other

43:49expectations . And then the more time

43:51passes , the deeper this wound gets and

43:53then we end up with divorce . Because

43:56there are times when you say or do some

43:59things that you can't undo , no matter

44:01how easy it is to heal that story ,

44:03scars remain . There's nothing you can

44:05do about it .

44:06Well , but why do two out of three

44:08couples end up getting divorced after

44:09the baby comes ? Well , this baby is

44:12Hm .

44:13The baby is the problem . The baby is

44:18a longer discussion , but you know we

44:19have to go back a little to the other

44:21generations . I mean , before the baby ,

44:24they should have a clear couple

44:26discussion . What are we doing , what are

44:28we , are we ready , is it okay to want

44:30this baby , yes or no ? We are , we want

44:32to take the step , can you be by my side

44:34, are you trying to be by my side , are

44:37you doing your best , yes , right ? We

44:39already know what's going on . Nobody

44:41speaks at the very beginning

44:43precisely because this does nothing but

44:45frame our future . That means that I

44:49basically give my consent and I am here

44:51next to you because I want to do as

44:53much as I can , that in the end there

44:54are limits to each person , but as much

44:56as I can I do this and I am next to you

44:58and I want to see if I can do more .

45:01That is what the discussion before

45:03means . Let's Let's try to make this

45:05story , not just on an imaginative level

45:08, because having a child like this is

45:09very nice , it's very ok , you know ,

45:11there are so many cases in which the

45:12father comes , plays with the child for

45:14five minutes and leaves , right ?

45:16Yes .

45:16Or something similar . Yes , there are a

45:18lot of stories .

45:19It's at the level of concept , at the

45:21level of image , at the level of status

45:23it's very beautiful . You know how as I

45:25was saying earlier that there are

45:27families who say yes very nice we have

45:29children . So children are a joy , you

45:31know ? They are like that , they are a

45:33miracle . God , wonderful . The father

45:35doesn't really stay at home . The mother

45:38probably does everything and the

45:39children are somehow a less natural

45:41result of their dynamic . Yes , we had

45:44children , because we had to have

45:46children . Something like that . And you

45:49basically fill the void that you have

45:51in your story by telling yourself that

45:52they are a real joy and they are

45:54Ok . And if you take that away , there is

45:56nothing left between the two of them .

45:58That's about it . There is not I don't

46:00know if there is nothing left , but

46:01there is something that is a void there

46:03that pays with some

46:04ambiguities , with all kinds of residue

46:06there in this story that needs to be

46:08cleaned up .

46:09Tell me something else . Only in couples

46:11where children appear do these things

46:12happen . What happens on your planet ? I

46:15don't know that you don't have children

46:16. No ,

46:17I do . I don't have children .

46:18Ok . On your planet what happens in a

46:20relationship ? The same or

46:21almost the same , except there are no

46:23children .

46:24Only milk and honey and debauchery and

46:26No , no . Think about it , yes , the

46:29dynamics of a couple who has a child

46:32are totally different . You can't

46:34compare . But the way the two talk is

46:36identical . The expectations are the

46:39same . The same type of disappointment

46:42occurs in a couple with children and in

46:44a couple without children . So the flow

46:46itself is identical . If I don't tell

46:49you what expectations I have from you ,

46:51that there is another child or not ,

46:53it's the same thing . You won't do that

46:55or you will do that . So whether it's a

47:00couple with a child or a couple without

47:02children , as long as people don't speak

47:04as clearly as possible for both of them

47:06, as much as they can at that moment ,

47:08they're just creating problems for

47:09themselves . It seems paradoxical , not

47:15so strange . I'm

47:16not telling you . So it's better that

47:18most of the time you think that if I

47:20don't tell you , you don't know , let it

47:22go , it'll go away on its own , you know ?

47:23Let it go , you know ? Especially like

47:25you said about grandparents , that's

47:27what they used to say and let it go ,

47:29we'll see , more , more . Wait .

47:31You hear , but you were telling me that

47:33most of them are from , how should I

47:35call them , clients

47:37clients ? Clients are women .

47:39Yes .

47:40So your clients are

47:43mostly women .

47:44Why do men come ?

47:46From women's mouths ,

47:47right ? Maybe there are a few more cases

47:51where let me come and see what it's

47:53about , let me come with you , let me try

47:55to do something , although I don't

47:57really believe in this story , but I

47:59hope things are still aligned like this

48:01.

48:03The same reason behind it . Everything

48:07this part of intimacy means needs

48:09emotional support . If emotionally

48:13you're not good at intimacy , you can't

48:15be . No , there isn't . It's impossible to

48:18be good at intimacy with someone if

48:20emotionally you haven't put yourself in

48:22the order you need .

48:24Hm .

48:24And then men feel the same thing at

48:26some point . I don't understand what to

48:29do , I don't understand how to put the

48:31problem here , I don't know why I'm in

48:33the same flow , I don't realize why I

48:35feel a certain way , I don't realize why

48:37I can't attract a certain pattern that ,

48:39however , I think I like , and what I

48:41attract is completely different . The

48:45same , pretty much the same type of

48:47questions , let's say , or situations or ,

48:49I wouldn't necessarily want to say

48:51problems , because I can't say they are

48:53problems . It's a situation that needs

48:55clarity and clarification .

48:56Hm . That's

48:58kind of what men come for .

49:00And should people ever expect anything

49:01else from you ? I mean , to learn , I

49:03don't know , to be

49:06seductive , sensual , to be an expert in

49:08sex or Oh , you know , no one asked me ,

49:10but at the same time I didn't even say

49:12that I do something like that and then

49:14it probably means that the message is

49:16very clear and that's very good . But

49:19between physical sex and emotional sex

49:21there is a world of difference ,

49:23obviously . Another almost paradoxical

49:31thing about this story is that it seems

49:33easier to go to what is physical and

49:35what is purely mechanical and carnal

49:37sex , let's say , by giving in to the

49:39emotional side .

49:42Well , yes , it seems a little simpler ,

49:45right ? Yes , simpler that much , but in

49:47fact sex is exactly the emotion that a

49:49person is looking for when they connect

49:51with someone . It's a different level of

49:53depth . It's a different It's a

49:56different type of connection . That's

49:59what everyone is looking for . But maybe

50:00it's hard to name exactly what we're

50:02looking for , because at the same time

50:04let's put the problem this way . How

50:07many times do people simply meet to

50:09have sex just so it can be done and

50:10that's it . If you give them the option ,

50:14do you want it to be something simple

50:16mechanical and with less experience or

50:18a deep and deeper experience ? I think

50:21almost no one will choose the first

50:22option . So in you somehow almost no one

50:26, yes , a very small percentage . So in

50:31you somehow there is this desire

50:32because actually behind you you want to

50:34feed that emotion . That's why you want

50:37to connect on a deeper level with the

50:38other person . You know , falling in love

50:40does that too . It takes you to a zone

50:42of this where you are absolutely on

50:44clouds and

50:44Yes , yes , yes . It's yes .

50:46What has he gone through . Well ,

50:48everyone would want that , right ?

50:50forever in love

50:51or maybe not forever in love , but the

50:53emotion there , that depth . You know

50:55that then you actually have the

50:57impression that you have him that you

50:58have even hung God by the little finger

51:00like that and that I don't know , there

51:01can't be anything more beautiful at

51:02that moment , right ?

51:03Yes , yes , yes . That's

51:06where we should go . Instead , we somehow

51:08end up confusing the stories here . You

51:11know that by making the first option

51:13simpler , you know , between the simpler

51:15guides , you have closed absolutely

51:17every door to the connection and to the

51:19depth of emotions that you are actually

51:21looking for .

51:26What do you tell your clients and if

51:29you tell them differently if they are

51:31women ? Beyond communication . That's

51:33what I understand . It's the

51:34basis So it's the basis from which we

51:36start . If the man doesn't know , doesn't

51:38know how to communicate in a couple ,

51:40it's almost impossible to solve

51:42something . In addition to , well , in

51:44addition to the first condition somehow

51:45being wanting to change something ,

51:47because if you don't want to change

51:48anything and you just expect it to

51:50change by itself ,

51:51but they all have a common denominator

51:52or something that caught your attention

51:54, well

51:55hm , they

51:56all say the same thing and nobody knows

51:58.

52:00Yes , ok . these with the commune , yes ,

52:03that's the problem , but beyond this

52:05thing that

52:06caught your attention ? What did you

52:09Look here is Yes , I think I think this

52:15would be the most sensitive point or

52:16subject somehow . The

52:19expectations that people have . expect

52:26things to be a certain way and the

52:27tolerance for frustration tolerance is

52:29something that is decreasing at an

52:31alarming rate . You feel like it's a

52:36generation gone by . That's how it feels

52:39. Yeah .

52:41You feel like I guess you know stories

52:43too . I'll give you some real examples ,

52:48somehow , that if a relationship went

52:50wrong or you met someone who wasn't was

52:53relatively okay , but in the end it

52:54ended you feel like that's it , there's

52:57no one left for you on this earth and ,

52:59at the same time , you better give up ,

53:01you resigned yourself , things are okay ,

53:03which is a monstrous aberration that

53:05has nothing to do with reality . Let's

53:10be serious and it doesn't mean that

53:11absolutely everything we do is good for

53:13us from the start . We learn to be in

53:15relationships . No matter how good you

53:17are in a relationship now , there will

53:19always be a better version of you later

53:20. And that's something that people have

53:23a hard time understanding . You know ,

53:25there's this desire , the desire for

53:27evolution is great , but it's very

53:29difficult for me to leave my comfort

53:31zone , because the comfort zone means

53:33making changes that may hurt a little ,

53:35that put me in a vulnerable zone , that

53:38require effort , like absolutely any new

53:40thing you learn in your life . And here

53:43it's just about another level , a better

53:46stage of you , in a more evolved stage ,

53:48let's say . And what did he tell a

53:51couple to never do for the good ?

53:55Not to keep quiet is the most important

53:57thing . It's very

53:59Look , for example , this is often talked

54:04about again in families with children .

54:06The way you sleep most often

54:09the father sleeps on one side , the

54:11mother sleeps with a child or without .

54:13The mother sleeps on the other side

54:15with a child .

54:16Hm .

54:16Without It doesn't exist . So with a

54:18child , the father , with a child or

54:19without , it depends on how long I've

54:21been in the family . And that's kind of

54:22it . It's the beginning of the end here .

54:26Do you

54:26think it's the beginning of the end ? Do

54:28you think that sleeping together , just

54:30sleeping , says something about you

54:32whether you are a couple , that talk of

54:34success or not ?

54:38It depends a lot on the factors in your

54:40dynamic . I use this word because it is

54:43very much the only one that somehow

54:45encompasses everything that happens in

54:47a relationship . The dynamics in the

54:49relationship are also about

54:50communication and the way they do

54:52things , exactly as you said , and the

54:54way each person sleeps with the child ,

54:56etc. If it is something specific , if it

54:58is a specific episode , it is natural ,

54:59it is normal . But in the evolution of a

55:01child , parents should not sleep with

55:03their children for a very long time . It

55:05is not healthy . I mean , they need a

55:09dose of independence as early as

55:11possible . That is determined by each

55:13couple somehow . But a psychologist will

55:15probably say much more clearly about

55:17what age you should calm down from this

55:19sleeping with the children forever .

55:21It is okay if you have We are not

55:23talking about something concrete or I

55:25do not want , well , at what age should I

55:26get the child out of bed . This is not

55:28about that . It's

55:30just that sleeping separately

55:32can say about you : " Sir , are you ready ?

55:34So you have a little more time and your

55:36relationship is over or is it a

55:38combination of factors or is it I mean

55:40Well , that's why

55:41I was saying about sleeping that if

55:43it's if we know that we're sleeping

55:44separately for six months , it's ok . We

55:46have predictability , we know that in

55:48six months we'll go back to our place ,

55:49but six months is a period that needs

55:51to be established and talked about .

55:52Yes . Exactly . We know that in six

55:54months we have to stay with the kids

55:56for six months . Ok . But we both know ,

55:58we're both in the same story . Because

56:00if one starts sleeping with the kid and

56:02the other doesn't , where do I meet you ?

56:04Where do we still have our moments ?

56:07Where do we still have the touches that

56:09seem trivial initially , but are exactly

56:11the glue that practically holds your

56:13relationship together ? And if it's

56:16something punctual and established

56:18together , perfectly fine . If it's

56:21something that goes on like this and

56:23it's self-evident , again we go back to

56:25the same story that we were talking

56:26about earlier . Self-evidently not does

56:29nothing but create frustrations . Of

56:32course it's good when the two of us

56:33have established what self-evident

56:35means . If we haven't established it's a

56:37gateway to frustrations immediately and

56:39directly . So it's not the sleeping

56:43itself , not necessarily sleeping

56:44separately that's the one that's

56:46bothering if the two of you know that

56:48you're doing this thing on time . If not

56:50, yes , obviously if you don't connect

56:52even in bed , this story slowly starts

56:55to creak . It's kind of hard to be as

56:57good , but still for 25 years we've been

56:59sleeping separately .

57:00Low chances . Do

57:02you think there's something that women ,

57:04mothers or women don't want to tell men

57:06and men don't want to tell women ?

57:09Definitely .

57:10What exactly ? Well , think about it , if

57:16she doesn't feel good at the moment and

57:18doesn't want , no , she simply doesn't

57:20want to be close to her husband , she

57:22might think that if she tells him that

57:23she doesn't want to , he'll feel like

57:25it's some kind of rejection and then

57:27she doesn't tell him directly because

57:29it hurts and I don't want to hurt him .

57:34Well , I'll leave it like this for a

57:36little longer . It's like a very small

57:38dose of poison , you know ? It still

57:40kills you somehow , but it's hard to do

57:41that over time . It's kind of like that

57:43here . If I don't tell him that this is

57:45what I feel right now , be by my side ,

57:47help me get through this story . Let's

57:49see if I can understand myself better .

57:51But if I leave it like this , I'm only

57:53creating more confusion . Anything I

57:56don't say , no matter what it is , is

57:58only creating more confusion . If I know

58:00that you're going through a period , we

58:02both know what's going on . If only I

58:04know that I'm going through a period ,

58:06you don't know what's going on . So it's

58:09mandatory that we keep talking .

58:11So this is a discussion of how much

58:13have we talked so far ? 45 minutes . How

58:16much do we have ? How much do we have ?

58:18We have

58:1957 minutes

58:21that could have been reduced to five

58:23minutes . Which could have been reduced

58:25to five minutes that I'm kidding now .

58:27Yes , but I'll keep going anyway . Anyway

58:29, so this is what I understood from

58:31this whole discussion ,

58:34that without exception and I realize

58:36this , you realize that on every podcast

58:38I also find

58:39myself personally wondering what

58:41mistakes I make or where I could do

58:43better and I realize , yes , how little

58:45we end up communicating as a couple and

58:46especially when we are

58:51daily assaulted by organizational

58:53problems , you know , with the children

58:55to

58:58take to the educational institution , to

59:01pick up , optional , non-optional , money ,

59:03bills , clothes ,

59:07food , all the things and you manage to

59:08end up not talking at all at the end of

59:10the day . Think

59:13apart from these things ,

59:14out of so many hours a day , yes , if we

59:17subtract how many there should be

59:19without eight sleeps , in the most

59:21serious way , but it's not eight sleeps .

59:23Without 8t there are about 16 hours , 14

59:26, 12 , I don't know . There are many

59:28hours in which we can do , we can do

59:29something and anyway at home we see

59:31each other in a dynamic , maybe a little

59:33in the morning , maybe after lunch ,

59:35maybe in the evening . I find it very

59:37hard to believe that people can't find

59:3910 minutes to talk and 10 minutes every

59:41day means 70 minutes a week . Huge

59:44compared to nothing . No.

59:46And do you think that from those 10

59:47minutes you end up spending more time ?

59:49Obviously . Yes .

59:50Because I want to end up . that you're

59:52next to me . Yes , I feel that you're

59:53next to me . Not that you're moving away

59:55from me . I feel that you want me to go

59:57back to the role of your boyfriend , not

59:59the father who just , I don't know ,

1:00:01carries water up , changes your tire on

1:00:03the car . Another thing is I don't think

1:00:05you should parent with the father too ,

1:00:06meaning to scold him with that voice

1:00:08you use with a child .

1:00:09You can let go a little more , but he

1:00:11can also say : " I don't think he's the

1:00:13most appropriate don today . Once or

1:00:15twice , if this story is repeated , it

1:00:17means that we have a little to discuss

1:00:19there too . But even so , even the 10

1:00:21minutes and I'm really talking about 10

1:00:23minutes , it's always about the fact

1:00:25that 10 minutes is a little bit . It's

1:00:27impossible not to find 10 minutes in a

1:00:29day . I find it very hard to believe . I

1:00:32really don't think that someone hasn't

1:00:33found 10 minutes together to be able to

1:00:35sit and discuss something .

1:00:37Cristian , you gave me , I think you gave

1:00:39me , an idea now . Pay attention , I'm

1:00:41launching a challenge and an exercise .

1:00:43I thank you very much for this

1:00:44discussion and seriously , so I've come

1:00:46up with an extraordinary idea now , I

1:00:48say , which I'm going to put into

1:00:50practice . Call your husband or wife now

1:00:52and ask them something completely

1:00:54unexpected .

1:00:55Hm .

1:00:57How are you feeling ? What did you like

1:01:00the most about today ? You know , I was

1:01:02thinking about the two of us when we

1:01:04were in our time , okay , do you remember

1:01:06that So I think it would be a moment of

1:01:09I guarantee you that

1:01:10If you can't , you can't talk about

1:01:12these things anymore , to make a phone

1:01:14call like that , out of nowhere , asking

1:01:17something completely and utterly out of

1:01:20the ordinary , you know ? For those of us

1:01:22now , I think it would be sensational to

1:01:24open a discussion , to , to launch a

1:01:26challenge and a discussion . I guarantee

1:01:29you and I put both hands on the fire

1:01:31that the person who receives the call

1:01:32will be pleasantly surprised every time

1:01:34and not so happy that the husband

1:01:36called . It really touches something in

1:01:40you when someone tells you , someone

1:01:42very close to you asks you this

1:01:44question : How are you feeling ? I want

1:01:46to know who you are , what you are now ,

1:01:48what's happening to you right now ?

1:01:50But tell me why does someone from the

1:01:52outside have to come in to tell you

1:01:53what to do ? You don't know that it's

1:01:57about your couple , it's about the

1:01:58person you know . Yes , you know yourself

1:02:01. Why does someone like you have to

1:02:03come , for example , to tell you what to

1:02:04do ?

1:02:07Most of the time , people from the

1:02:08outside , meaning the outside

1:02:10perspective , doesn't come with a recipe

1:02:12, look what you have to do or , well ,

1:02:14this would be the ideal case .

1:02:15Hm .

1:02:18In a couple , the moment is hot . You

1:02:21have the hot perspectives . You and your

1:02:24husband are in a problem . There's

1:02:27something that's not working properly .

1:02:28You're arguing . It's not right what's

1:02:30happening there . So it's hot . You're at

1:02:33the heart of the problem .

1:02:36Most of the time , you find the

1:02:37solutions when you take a step outside .

1:02:40Sometimes it's almost impossible to say

1:02:42: " Okay , we're really screwed right now

1:02:44, we're arguing , I'm going to go

1:02:45outside just to think about I don't

1:02:47know what solution we have . It's almost

1:02:49impossible . Even if you do , sometimes

1:02:51your mind is so focused and glued to

1:02:53that story that it's almost impossible

1:02:55for you to get out of it , well , I'm

1:02:57right , period . I mean , this is not what

1:02:59we're talking about . We're

1:03:00not talking about this story anymore .

1:03:02Obviously . So this is the warm

1:03:03perspective that all people have . Every

1:03:05couple has this thing . Hey , when you go

1:03:07to someone outside , whether they're a

1:03:10therapist , a psychotherapist , a coach ,

1:03:12a priest , a counselor , any person who

1:03:14basically

1:03:17comes in a little bit with their cold

1:03:18perspective on you this time , they see

1:03:20it differently . It's a third

1:03:24opinion in your whole story , because

1:03:26the two of you have at least one

1:03:27opinion each , right ? at least .

1:03:30But you need another neutral opinion

1:03:32from the outside that can somehow glue

1:03:37both versions of your story together

1:03:39and bring , most of the time , that's

1:03:41their role , bring the best option for

1:03:43both of them on the table .

1:03:45Hm . That's why people need to go to

1:03:48someone , to seek counseling , to seek

1:03:50answers , but not for , sorry , but not

1:03:53for their option , for one option and

1:03:55that's it , for the option that is best

1:03:57for them . That makes a cold perspective

1:04:00,

1:04:01to reach that compromise that I think

1:04:03is

1:04:03not necessarily a compromise , to

1:04:05somehow reach an agreement . Look what I

1:04:07can do for you and what you can do for

1:04:09me . You know that's how it should be ,

1:04:10that's what the energy should be . No ,

1:04:12not the other way around . He didn't ask

1:04:14me to do anything . First I want to do

1:04:16things for you . If you do this for me

1:04:18too , then it's perfect .

1:04:20Not the truth that from the inside you

1:04:21often don't see anymore , you don't see

1:04:23the solution or the path .

1:04:24Event is almost impossible . And when

1:04:26it's hot , hot , hot then it's almost

1:04:28impossible . You're in a defensive ,

1:04:30you're in a

1:04:31But friends aren't always the solution

1:04:33because they'll take your side . It

1:04:34depends on whose friend it is .

1:04:36Yes . And no one knows what's going on

1:04:38in your soul and in the soul of your

1:04:40partner , in the soul of your husband .

1:04:43No one knows exactly except the two of

1:04:45you . And then you go outside to your

1:04:47friends in vain because everyone has

1:04:48their own version of the relationship .

1:04:50Exactly . the file of speech if you've

1:04:52heard the other version maybe you've

1:04:54changed your mind . It's

1:04:55more in the normalization that I was

1:04:57talking about .

1:05:00Thank you once again for coming and for

1:05:02teaching us so many precious things and

1:05:04I hope that this will be such a moment

1:05:06of awakening for you too , that it's not

1:05:08okay to think that it's okay if many

1:05:09people around you are having this

1:05:11happen and that you should win your

1:05:13partner back through little things .

1:05:19Even a five-minute conversation , ask

1:05:21them a question that they wouldn't

1:05:23expect and that isn't related to bills ,

1:05:25children , kindergartens , schools and so

1:05:28on and maybe you can light the spark .

1:05:32I'm excited , very excited about this

1:05:34podcast from which I learned a lot of

1:05:36interesting things , including for my

1:05:38relationship . I'm waiting for you with

1:05:43comments , to tell us what you went

1:05:45through with the birth of the child in

1:05:47the relationship with the couple : if

1:05:49you broke up , why you broke up , if you

1:05:51somehow managed to get back together ,

1:05:53if you were on the verge of breaking up

1:05:55and managed to tell us how you did it .

1:05:58Don't forget to subscribe to stay up to

1:06:00date with all the podcasts we do here .

1:06:03Thank you for following us and see you

1:06:05next time . Bye bye . Yeah .