Çilingir Sofrası 22 / Hint İrfanı - Brahma (with english subtitles)

0:00Çilingir Sofrası 22 / Hinduism, Brahma ***Translated by Prof.Dr.Nükhet Kardam***

0:01When the individual soul that we read about in the Upanishads

0:06melts (this is a good term) within the Limitless and the Endless.

0:15In other words, the notion that the human being becoming one with the Brahma,

0:20this is not just the basis of not Hinduism

0:24but all spiritual paths around the world

0:31We found it in India but think it is only there

0:34No, it is the basis of all spiritual paths or gnostic traditions, whether it is Greek, Jewish, Sufi or others

0:45They just manifest differently in different cultures and times in history

0:50The colors are different but what lies underneath, batin (hidden) is the same.

0:58We are conversing here to demonstrate the diversity of spiritual paths and at the same time underlying their similarity.

1:04We are not here to compliment, applaud Hinduism but to open up ourselves to the Universal

1:10What the Qur’an says: “God's is the east and the west: and wherever you turn, there is God's countenance” 2:115 will be realized.

1:17It is not about saying that you turned your face to India to see God’s face without realizing it

1:25or about turning to Egypt to see God’s face there

1:29It is not enough to say I heard about it

1:30But I don’t know; that doesn’t work

1:32You might have read about it (ilm-al Yakin) but you haven’t seen it (Ayn’el Yakin)

1:35You have seen it but you are not yourself that (hakka’l Yakin).

1:38If you were, you would say you are neither from Egypt or Greece, but both from Egypt and Greece

1:43Sinan: Ah Mevlana (Celaleddin Rumi)!

1:48The people of wisdom, gnostics

1:54If we turned to Mevlana, everything would start melting by themselves

2:02Yes

2:06We said there are three imperatives.

2:09Timeless,

2:10placeless

2:11and the third imperative is ‘La Kuyut’

2:14This means limitless

2:18How can something be limitless?

2:25If it is placeless and timeless.

2:27When there is a time and place, everything is limited

2:31And being limited and having an end is Reality

2:38To be endless is Truth

2:42The difference between Truth and Reality

2:45is that Truth is endless whereas Reality is limited and has an end.

2:51God is not real but is the Truth

2:54He is the reason for all reality

3:02Serhan: So God is beyond reality

3:04No, not beyond.

3:06Look, what does God do?

3:07Says ‘Kun’ (Be) and creation takes place.

3:10Who is the Creator? God

3:16God is the Creator of Reality.

3:18If we said God is Reality, we assign limitation and an end to God

3:22But He creates Reality. He is the Truth.

3:25Truth is endless and unlimited

3:29Serhan: So what creates Reality is Truth

3:31Yes, exactly, bravo

3:38So we see that in the Upanishads and the wisdom of Vedanta

3:43it is suggested that the individual soul will be relieved of all worldly pain

3:49and live in peace within the Universal Self or Spirit

3:53This is what is being suggested in the Upanishads

4:00So what is supposed to happen?

4:07To be relieved of worldly pain.

4:12But this is misunderstood

4:14We think that magically we will be healthy, rich and famous

4:22No,

4:24look at people in India,

4:25they are a society that is suffering.

4:28But look at their faces

4:29Sinan: They are smiling

4:30My wife and I were watching a video the other day

4:34Was it Bangladesh? No, not there.

4:38What is that place that has high mountains?

4:40Sinan: Himalayas, Nepal

4:42There was an earthquake in Nepal which destroyed everything

4:46We had an earthquake here (in Turkiye), and we were crying and thought we were completely destroyed

4:52There was an earthquake in Nepal, you can go to youtube and watch it

4:58And see that the people were all smiling

5:01Nobody seemed devastated

5:05Sinan: Acceptance How amazing!

5:09Dervishes say, Allah gives and Allah takes away

5:20We think we are always owed something and therefore we are at a loss

5:27Everytime we lose, we think we are in pain

5:32This teaching says, the teaching that leads to Atman and Brahman,

5:37that everything is Hakk

5:39In fact, pain itself is a teaching

5:43Just like what Mevlana said. One day he got sick

5:47So they called the doctors.

5:49The doctors said that he had a fever and recommended some medicine

5:56They said, please let us give you this medicine

5:59He said no.

6:01Doctors asked why and his response was:

6:04This illness prevented a graver illness in me.

6:10How can an illness relieve another ilness? We don’t understand.

6:15This illness removed my arrogance

6:21Allow me to keep it

6:23a bit longer as my guest

6:25It told me how helpless we are, taught me to be a human being

6:35We are arrogant, we think we own everything

6:39And then we lose what we have. Then what?

6:42Sinan: Exactly

6:43If you own it, then protect it.

6:45But it is gone!

6:46It turns out that our own thoughts create our pain.

6:51So these spiritual paths, paths of wisdom do not magically give us

6:54more wealth or other worldy goods

6:57Just the opposite

7:01What do Sufis say?

7:03We accept both God’s Cemal (beauty) and Celal (majesty)!

7:07Can we accept the pain, the difficulties that come our way, as well as gifts?

7:11How can we do that? We can say it outloud

7:15I have heard it from many people.

7:21But once they are sick, they start complaining

7:23So what happened? It sounds good to say it

7:29That’s arrogance, it is to get people to like you but you cannot do it in truth

7:35If you can, that means you have reached Atman and Brahman

7:38If you keep saying it just for the sake of approval, you may also suffer the consequences

7:44Sinan: There was a man whose eighteen year old son died

7:50Sinan: and he could no longer say dear God I accept the pain that may come my way.

7:55Sinan: He was devastated

7:57Yes, about making claims.

8:01There is a story. They asked a gnostic, a Sufi teacher, if he could define Sufism

8:05in one word

8:06He said sure

8:08The person who asked wondered: I have been reading so many books

8:13about Sufism, it is such a rich tradition and he says he can define it one word!

8:18The teacher’s answer was: Sufism is giving up any claims

8:24Don’t claim anything!

8:28But when we look at our own lives

8:30Sinan: This is not about being pessimistic

8:33No, look, pessimism is about not knowing what to do But making no claims is using your own will.

8:40Serhan: Whatever I was claiming, I accept that I no longer own it

8:46Yes, by that acceptance, you are accepting yourself

8:54Sinan: That requires sincerity

8:55Serhan: I was making claims and now I believe that I will no longer do that

9:00Bravo, believing is believing in God in yourself.

9:05You can’t believe in God somewhere else.

9:08You are not believing in yourself but you are believing in God who gave yourself to you

9:17I am certain that even if I had nothing, I still exist

9:24Cogito ergo sum

9:25Serhan: I exist even if I had nothing

9:27It is not ‘if I had nothing’

9:28It doesn’t matter whether I have nothing or not.

9:37I might think that I no longer exist if my reputation is ruined, or if I lost my position or my money

9:44But I am not any of those things

9:47When I reach ‘zero’, in fact I am not reaching zero

9:50That is when I exist

9:53Cogito Ergo Sum means the awareness of this.

9:55Descartes said it

9:57Both Descartes and the gnostics of India say the same thing. Why?

10:01Because it comes from the same place.

10:04Serhan: I think we need to define ‘I’ very carefully here.

10:08Sinan: I saw somewhere that here was a man who had a supermarket chain in the earthquake area (in Turkiye)

10:12Sinan: And his son was very picky about food

10:15Sinan: and now they live in a tent. One day they found their tea kettle by their tent

10:20and it felt like they found gold!

10:23S›nan: He was showing the tea kettle made of aluminum

10:28Sinan: And saying now we are enjoying our tea so much

10:32Yes, ownership, if what you own is going to be spent in service to God

10:38then there is no problem with having wealth or position

10:44Look at our prophet who was also the head of state

10:50The point is using what you have in service to people

10:56Let’s even give a more mundane example.

10:59Suppose you are sitting at home by yourself, you are doing well economically, you have what you need

11:04Wouldn’t you get bored after a while

11:06and hope that your parents, your siblings or friends came over

11:11so you could chat and have some tea together?

11:14Isn’t that right?

11:16It doesn’t have to be family, it could be close friends, people you love or people in need.

11:28So now your table might turn into Halil Ibrahim’s table

11:32Cilingir Sofrasi could open up a whole ‘sohbet’ on many ‘tables’, the table of Hakk.

11:45So Universal Self (Kulli Nafs) Nafs means self, self as it is

11:53It means me, I

11:57They ask what does nafs mean in Arabic? It means me, myself

12:01Serhan: Nafs has been understood in a negative way up to now.

12:05That is nafs-i emmare (commanding self)

12:07Serhan: It is understood that way in Islamic literature

12:12No, that’s not true

12:14The gnostics talk about seven levels of the nafs.

12:19But people have chosen the lowest nafs which is nafs-i emmare

12:24which is under the control of instincts, that’s why it is looked down upon

12:29But there is the nafs-i levvame (blaming self) which is the nafs that turns to repentance (Tavba)

12:35and is engaged in self-criticism, self-reflection. That’s when one becomes a human being

12:40Facing one self, asking oneself: is what I am doing right?

12:45Serhan: so conscience

12:48Yes, when our conscience wakes up, then we look down on our nafs-i emmare

12:54We then realize that we have been cursing others, oppressing them, stealing from them

13:00As soon as you have realized these, then you are in repentance (tavba).

13:05The Qur’an says: repent and get close

13:09Where should I get close?

13:11To myself

13:14whatever you did up to now was about rejecting yourself

13:21Sinan: There is an ilahi: Istafurullah

13:50The next level of the nafs is nafs-i mulhimme (Inspired Nafs), where we are inspired.

13:55That’s the level of artists

13:58and saints

13:59evliya's

14:01Sinan: The danger increases.

14:03There is danger there.

14:04Words come out of you that you haven’t heard from anyone

14:12Serhan: That means I am somebody

14:14You start saying: wow, Look at me, my solo is even better than McLaughlin!

14:20I am good, After a while, ‘I am good’ turns into arrogance

14:23It is assumed that artists have big egos

14:27There is support for that

14:31Sinan: it is deemed natural

14:32What you are doing is you are building walls around you

14:38Sinan: you are comfortable inside

14:40No, that’s not comfort, you end up all alone

14:44You are punished with loneliness

14:47You did it yourself. I am untouchable, I am great!

14:53Everyone respects you.

14:55If no one can say to you: Hey, how are you doing?

14:57Do you exist?

14:58Sinan: You ended up alone

15:05Some people ask me: is it okay to be arrogant?

15:07And I say, sure go ahead.

15:09You will see what it is like when you are left all alone.

15:13You will run to people.

15:16There is no need to give advice to anyone.

15:19It is all in life, everything has consequences

15:34If you do good, it will be returned to you,

15:38if you do bad things, it will also be returned to you

15:41So that means I am the one doing all of this.

15:46If I do good, what will I get in return?

15:50The guaranteur is God

15:55God says, if you do good deeds, they will surely be returned to you.

15:58If you believe, you are in peace.

16:00If you don’t, you are always in doubt

16:04Those in doubt are constantly wondering, will I get anything in return?

16:14You don’t know whether you will get something inreturn now or tomorrow

16:18Sinan: God is timeless

16:20Sinan: Can we go beyond the seven levels of Nafs? That’s really beautiful

16:25Let’s not go there yet! That’s later.

16:41Let’s end this sohbet by pointing out that the Universal Self is Brahma and that it has four characteristics.

16:48Let’s not tire out Serhan, he is already busy, working.

16:55Serhan: Istafurullah, I am fine

17:00Let’s get his approval so he doesn't run away.

17:02Sinan: let’s continue, he is saying yes

17:05So Brahma has four characteristics.

17:08It is unconditional, devoid of attachment,

17:14It is absolute, unconditional, has no relation with anything.

17:18Placeless and timeless

17:21Who? The Universal Self (Kulli Nafs)

17:23Brahma

17:24What does it mean? How are we supposed to understand this?

17:27So we go to the Greeks, Greeks were into philosophy and explored concepts.

17:32In Indian wisdom, there is straightforward acceptance of Brahma.

17:38But Greeks asked further questions.

17:42Serhan: Let’s clarify it, make it more visible

17:46A good example of Greek philosphers is Parmenides

17:51What does Parmenides say?

17:53He says there is existence and there is nothingness

17:58What does this mean?

17:59Existence is unconditional existence just like in Brahma

18:04Good, but we can’t understand it. Should we just believe this?

18:08Are you a prophet and asking us to believe?

18:12How can I believe in something I don’t know?

18:16So Parmenides says, look, existence is unconditional means

18:20that it is limitless, endless, devoid of attachment, just like in Brahma

18:28cannot be known.

18:31But how can I say yes do something I don’t know?

18:36A judgment requires knowledge.

18:40How do I know that what you are saying is right?

18:44Can’t you explain this in a way that we can understand?

18:48I can, through geometry

18:52Parmenides says let’s look at all geometrical shapes, triangles, squares and others.

19:00Out of all of these, what is the most comprehensive shape?

19:07It is the sphere

19:10So is there any geometric shape that incorporates the sphere?

19:18Serhan: Another sphere

19:20That means the sphere cannot be incorporated into any other shape and is limitless and endless

19:26It can incorporate all geometric shapes, but it, itself, cannot be incorporated into something else.

19:30So existence is like the sphere

19:33Sinan: That’s an expert definition

19:35So in this way, Parmenides has defined the limitless and the endless.

19:41We will continue in our next sohbet.

19:46Çilingir Sofrası 22 / Hinduism, Brahma ***Translated by Prof.Dr.Nükhet Kardam***