Çilingir Sofrası 25 / Romantik ve Klasik Sanat (with english subtitles)

0:00Çilingir Sofrası 25 / Romanticism & Classical Art ***Translated by Prof.Dr.Nükhet Kardam***

0:05Sinan: Answering back and forth

0:15Sinan: One is asking and the other is answering, isn't that right?

0:18Of course, there is a back and forth in all music forms

0:24But in Indian music, they are talking, conversing with each other

0:30One instrument represents the masculine,

0:33the other the feminine

0:37There is a feminine aspect here,

0:42like a wave

0:46This music doesn't have edges,

0:50it is like domes

0:52and soft like sand dunes,

0:54Serhan: Yes, it is soft, flowing

0:55Sinan: changing

0:58Sand (Sand Dunes)

1:00Now, this music emerged in India

1:06If you want to understand a culture, take a look at its music

1:09and also its poetry To understand this process you would need to listen to each type of music one after another

1:14Tagore says: To understand the culture of a society, look at their music

1:22and poetry.

1:26In Iran this music becomes differentiated and becomes more disciplined, whereas in Indian music, there is a lot of improvisation

1:41Then once it arrives in the Arabian Peninsula

1:45This time, Arab music is a mixture

1:48of the discipline of Iranian music and the improvisation and freedom of Indian music

1:53We are now in the desert, there are rhythms now

1:58There is tabla in Indian music which provides rhythm too

2:02Serhan: we can hear the tabla now

2:05But once we have the darbuka, the rhythms become more pronounced, there is a difference

2:18When music forms move to Europe,

2:22we see that they have edges, they are not round

2:27When we look at European architecture,

2:31we see that it also has edges

2:33Whereas eastern architecture is oval, it has domes

2:38For instance, look at our mosques,

2:41it has domes

2:43The dome represents the cosmos

2:47but at the same time it represents a woman's breast, it is feminine

2:52The breast is the first locus of nurturing

2:58The eastern architecture has subconsciously caught this attraction to the mother

3:04Whereas when we go to Europe, we see cathedrals

3:09They go straight up, they are pointed, such as the one in Cologne, Germany

3:13I went there and tried to look up to the top from the entrance, and ended up on my back

3:18When you stand at the door and look up, you can't even see the very top

3:24You have to stand back a little in order to see the top The top is pointed, high like a tower

3:31But when you see Hagia Sophia for instance, it is spread out, it has domes

3:38Why?

3:41Because it symbolizes Mary, mother of Jesus

3:50And the cathedral in Cologne represents Jesus, Jesus has gotten rid of his weight and has ascended

3:58And once he has reached the top, he is no longer a material being

4:05So what is being manifested is the ascension of Jesus

4:09How can you show this in architecture? By creating a bigger mass at the bottom

4:13And slowly the mass becomes smaller and smaller and turns into a dot

4:21Turning to Mary, what is symbolized by the dome is

4:25Motherhood, compassion

4:27And it is down on the ground

4:31Sinan: Like Kibele

4:35Jesus ascended, while Mary descended

4:39Why are we talking about music?

4:43Because in world culture

4:45symbols are manifested through art

4:48This is the way the essence of a culture manifests

4:53or externalizes itself

4:57As such, people of faith are artists

5:00Or artists are people of faith

5:02Hegel says:

5:04In ancient Greece, the classical art was sculpture

5:09But sculptors did not reveal themselves

5:14When you see a Greek sculpture depicting a god or goddess

5:18or a sculpture of an human,

5:20we don't know who created it

5:22Because the artist created it as worship Perhaps we know the names of a few of the artists

5:32But in general we don't know who created the sculptures Because the artist has created them anonymously

5:36He or she is not interested in fame and fortune but in manifesting his/her faith

5:45If you put your signature on it, you want to show yourself, you are marketing your product

5:49You are Andy Warhol

5:50You are doing it to make money

5:52You might even sell canned food to me

5:55or you might take a photo of Marlon Brando on a motorcycle

5:57And you can become famous

6:00You might say, this is modern art, I want to say this or that with my art

6:03That's fine,

6:05but it is not classical art.

6:07You are not bad.

6:08What you are doing is questioning things, that's fine

6:13But classical art does not question,

6:15classical art externalizes the artist's faith (Iman)

6:18Hegel says that contemporary artists can create even more perfect sculptures

6:26But they are not classical sculptures

6:28You can make a statue that is exactly the same as classical statues

6:31They do this in Italy

6:33I went and saw this.

6:36You can order a sculpture just like the original

6:41but it is not classical art

6:46How come it is not the same?

6:49Because the original was creative.

6:52The original was not a copy, the artist did not look at a copy and make it.

6:55it happened in the moment, the artist externalized what appeared in his imagination

6:59Serhan: It was like a "Doğuş"

7:01Yes, Serhan said it!

7:08The artist is like a mother, she is in love with her baby. She steps aside.

7:13She is not in love with herself

7:15If she is in love with herself, then she is not an artist

7:22There is the ego there

7:26But can we limit art to classical art?

7:28No.

7:29We talked about what we call classical art,

7:31identical with itself

7:34There is also romantic art

7:35Where feelings are externalized, are manifested

7:40There is symbolic art,

7:43where you will hide the essence

7:44But show it outside

7:46Indian art is like that

7:48Indıan art is not a classical art.

7:53What does it mean?

7:55So the artist himself is a human being right?

7:59A human being can recreate nature,

8:08but how about exploring oneself?

8:09You can explore the stars, alright.

8:11Nature,

8:12Nature, rivers,

8:13Nature, rivers, mountains.

8:15Socrates says, know thyself

8:19know thyself

8:22The first way humans have externalized themselves was by creating their bodies as sculptures, as an art form

8:29Bodies have been created as sculptures

8:34As a sculpture without connecting or comparing it to anything else and directly showing the body

8:45is classical art Classical art is when an artist creates his/her body

8:49After the body comes the feelings, First a human being's body is manifested,

8:53then his/her feelings,

8:55Then thoughts

8:57and then actions.

9:06When we turn to Indian art

9:09Perhaps Can can help us here

9:12There we have a god called Ganesha

9:22It is a very good example of Indian art

9:28We see a person there but yet not a person

9:32Why? The face looks like an elephant

9:34Sinan: Has many arms

9:35Has a snake in his hand

9:39Sinan: full of symbols

9:43We see animal shapes there that cover up the human form

9:47That's what symbolic art is

9:50If we can decipher each of these symbols, then we can understand the human being hidden behind them

9:57Because the the human being's instincts are shown as animals

10:00Humans have the characteristics of snakes or scorpions

10:07Of foxes, of sheep

10:12It is like La Fontaine's tales

10:15Rumi's Mesnevi is full of such tales

10:18So when human beings' instincts are being represented by different animals,

10:23When there is a representation, we are not talking about classic art.

10:27There is duality and it is not classical art

10:30When there is duality, it is symbolic art It is not itself, but it symbolizes something else

10:37For example, I might say strong as an elephant,

10:42Brave as a lion

10:46Cunning like a fox

10:51These are symbols

10:54When we see a Greek sculpture of a god as an anthropomorphic human body

11:02As a naked man or woman, eyes are expressionless

11:05Therefore there is no personality, there is just a statue, a silent stance

11:10The body is naked, there is no other manifestation

11:16It is what it is

11:19So why does the statue depict a god or goddess when we actually see a human body?

11:22A human being has feelings, thoughts, relationships, likes and dislikes

11:30If all of these are removed, what we have is those statues

11:34So you see, what we call God is really the abstract human being

11:40In Sufism, it is said that

11:47God is in love with you.

11:49You are looking for God,

11:50actually God is looking for you

11:53He created the human being out of love

11:58That means the artist must know how God manifests in himself/herself

12:06If the artist can watch himself/herself in what s/he creates

12:10That means he or she has discovered God

12:12"Men arefe nefsehu fekad arefe rabbehu" (Who knows himself knows his Lord)

12:15This is what "Know thyself" (Gnothi seauton) means

12:20You can know yourself in your own creativity

12:23Just like how God has created this world in order to be known

12:27The artist finds God in him/herself

12:30God's revelation turns into the artist's inspiration That inspiration manifests

12:35or externalizes in many different forms and images

12:38in music, in cinema, theater, sculpture, or a performance

12:47Now Indian Art is symbolic art

12:50Its music, its performing arts are also like that

12:56They use masks

12:59Hide behind those masks

13:04They don't manifest those masks as actors

13:07They use those masks like Demons

13:09Look at their theaters

13:11For instance the masks may symbolize evil in this world or happiness

13:17Greek theater is the same

13:19You see masks that smile and those that cry

13:23tragedy and comedy

13:25Right? Comedy; All is well, I am smiling

13:30I have friends like that.

13:33They say: my health is good, I have enough money

13:38All is well

13:43I talk with them and they say, don't you think it is all God's will Metin Bey?

13:50Isn't it true that we see God's manifestation everywhere?

13:52They have read a couple of books on Sufism

13:55I say, is that right?

13:58He has seen God's beautiful manifestation (Cemal)

14:00How about the manifestation of God's majesty (Celal)?

14:02What would you do then?

14:10He doesn't understand,

14:12after some time passed,

14:17This person had cancer

14:23He is in the last stages, he started to complain

14:27How could Allah do this to me?

14:33I have always helped others, how can this be?

14:38So when God's majesty manifested, he started to refute God

14:41When one is in love with God, that love doesn't disappear when one encounters difficulties

14:45Sinan: what happened to acceptance (Riza)?

14:47Therefore, without love of God, one can't say he or she believes in God,

14:53it is a lie.

14:55Suppose, you asked your father gave you everything, and I just took it

15:04Suppose you asked to be talented and you were given the ability to play the guitar or sing

15:09That's fine, you may have all those,

15:12but the question is: do you love your father or do you love all the things that your father gave you?

15:17One murshid said:

15:22Those who go Haj, they go to see the Kaaba

15:26When we go, we ask

15:27Where is the owner?

15:30Çilingir Sofrası 25 / Romanticism & Classical Art

15:32Çilingir Sofrası 25 / Romanticism & Classical Art ***Translated by Prof.Dr.Nükhet Kardam***