Çilingir Sofrası 18 / Upanişad, Yoga, Samsara, Mokşa, Nirvana (with English subtitles)

0:00"Çilingir Sofrası 18 / Upanishad, Yoga, Samsara, Moksha, Nirvana" translated by Prof. Dr. Nükhet Kardam

0:03Let’s talk about the Upanishads.

0:06Upanishads are the texts of ancient Indian Wisdom.

0:14We talked about Vedanta before.

0:20These are sacred texts.

0:21Serhan: timeless knowledge

0:23According to the Upanishads, and especially in the late Vedanta texts,

0:29the multiplicity we observe around us

0:35in the external world is brought together

0:38by a unifying consciousness which is called Yoga.

0:46This is called Tevhid in Arabic. Yoga in Sanskrit and in Greek, it is called Symbolon

0:53They are all about uniting differences or multiplicities.

0:56Come together right now! There was a song like that.

1:11Serhan: I remember that song, maybe we will play that sometime later.

1:21In the unifying consciousness,

1:24the multiplicity or multiple sense perceptions disappear and

1:31we come to Vahdet (unity). We read this in the Upanishads

1:36This was told many years ago, in prehistoric times.

1:43So what does this mean?

1:46We are not just talking about uniting,

1:50but also the disappearance of multiplicity in the unifying consciousness

1:54Just like when we put sugar in our tea.

1:56You look for sugar, it is not there, it has melted in the tea. And the tea is now sweeter.

2:01Exactly like this.

2:02So it is said that when this happens,

2:05what appears is the ‘nafs’ who ‘tastes’.

2:08It is the 'nafs' who is doing the tasting.

2:12That’s why I talked about ‘tasting’ in the previous sohbet.

2:15Tasting is the experience of oneself.

2:19Let’s say you are playing your guitar, it is the guitar’s experience.

2:25Or you are playing the saz, piano or saxophone

2:29It is the instrument’s experience.

2:32The music you play is the experience of the phenomenon we call ‘music’.

2:38You are not there.

2:40How will you experience yourself then?

2:42The answer is you will experience yourself through the tasting of your soul.

2:49It is said that

2:52if the multiplicity that we see in the world

2:55is dissolved in the unifying consciousness (yoga)

3:02and disappears

3:04If it melts and dissolves,

3:14then you taste it in your own soul

3:18and become aware of yourself.

3:20The word ‘nafs’ is, of course, not used in the Upanishads, they use a word in Sanskrit

3:29If we say it in a different way,

3:31The nafs disappears in the

3:33eternal, unchangeable unity,

3:41in other words we are talking about Vahdet.

3:43Now this is a very interesting view

3:47which incorporates all gnostic teachings, in Sufism, in philosophy.

3:54As you see these teachings are in the Upanishads.

3:57These teachings are in Indian wisdom.

4:00We think that these teachings belong in Mesopotamia or Anatolia,

4:06or in the Arabian deserts.

4:11Look, these teachings are in Indian wisdom.

4:15I am not making it up.

4:17You can go read about it.

4:24It is only possible to reach this state of unconditional unity by

4:32emptying oneself,

4:33anything in oneself,

4:34anything belonging to oneself.

4:36emptying oneself, anything in oneself, anything belonging to oneself.

4:44Serhan: Emptying one’s self, of anything belonging to oneself,

4:49Anything in oneself

4:52by emptying all of that It is possible to reach Reality.

4:57Serhan: What is reached?

4:59Reality. What is reached when you empty yourself is the Reality, to reach ‘zero’.

5:05Serhan: So emptying oneself of everything of self.

5:08Reality is always there. Yes, that’s what Reality is.

5:13Serhan: Can we say that when we think we have reached Reality while we are still

5:18In our selves, is not Reality? .

5:22Serhan: So it is our conjecture, our suppositions. It is what we have previously accumulated.

5:28Let’s say I am 40 or 41 years old, and I assume what I have

5:34Accumulated so far is Reality. But it is not.

5:38Serhan: So I must forget all of that.

5:43You had spoken about a time other than ‘kronos’, what was that?

5:49What goes beyond ‘kronos’ is ‘kairos’.

5:52So once I pass into ‘kairos’, whether I am 41 years old

5:57or not Is no longer important. All is gone.

6:01Sinan: Neither are your various identities.

6:04Serhan: I am then devoid of my name, my art, my identity as a musician.

6:07All my identities are thrown away, everything related to this world.

6:13Sinan: Come to me naked, it is said.

6:16Serhan: I am still not able to explain what I am trying to explain right now.

6:29Is that right? I still couldn’t explain it.

6:34Yes, let alone explaining it, you have to live it,

6:39to experience it

6:41Serhan: So I couldn’t explain the experience.

6:45We can’t explain it, it is wordless, that’s why it is called mystical experience.

6:49We said it can’t be explained. It can’t be explained as a positive experience.

6:59Serhan: What does that mean?

7:01It can’t be explained in a positive fashion, by giving examples or by a method.

7:09But it can be explained...

7:11in a negative way.

7:14So you might ask how is that possible?

7:18As you know this concept exists in Tasavvuf (Sufism).

7:21So when we say it exists in Tasavvuf (Sufism), you would say okay.

7:25"Selbi Sıfatlar" (God’s attributes)

7:30As you know there are three sets in ‘tesbih’ (rosary beads)

7:32We can talk about the equivalent in Tasavvuf (Sufism) of the Upanishads’ understanding of Reality.

7:37Some people think I am exulting Tasavvuf when I talk.

7:42But that’s not true at all.

7:43I am trying to explain how we can recognize the same truths in other cultures

7:48by showing the correspondences in our own culture.

7:55So here is the equivalence in our culture.

7:59So let’s assume that we have completed our prayers (namaz).

8:07After we finished, we picked up our ‘tesbih’ (rosary).

8:1033, 33 and 33; there are 99 beads.

8:18We count the first 33 beads, we say ‘Subhanallah’

8:24The second 33 beads, we say ‘Alhamdullilah’,

8:30and the last 33 we say ‘Allahu Ekber’.

8:33So now we are finished.

8:35If you look at the rosary, you will see that

8:40there is an ‘imame’ (a longer piece at the end of tesbih) there.

8:42That’s not just a place to hold the rosary beads.

8:45Make a circle out of the rosary beads.

8:48Once we come to the ‘imame’,

8:51we leave the circle.

8:53Exit.

8:58You are leaving the circle.

9:02That is called ‘Samsara’ in Hinduism.

9:05Samsara is the life and death cycle.

9:11Moksha is the freedom from the eternal cycle of life, death and rebirth.

9:14Buddha who reached Moksha and Nirvana exited this eternal cycle and was no longer dependent on it.

9:19In Western philosophy, Samsara is ‘Determination’.

9:29Moksha is Freedom,

9:31Nirvana is reaching point zero.

9:33We call it Fana Fillah, leaving the circle.

9:38This means that you are no longer dependent on the cycle of life, death and rebirth,

9:42on this determination, on a cause and effect cycle.

9:46That is the station you have reached.

9:49Serhan: The station of timelessness

9:52Yes and placelessness.

9:59Anyone who claims this station has been ridiculed,

10:02such as Al Hallaj Mansour,

10:04such as Bruno

10:07They say, come on,

10:10let us set you on fire and you will see!

10:12They said this to Jesus.

10:14Let’s crucify you and see what happens!

10:17What happened to ‘exit’?

10:19What is Jesus’ response?

10:24He says: Dear God,

10:25They don’t know.

10:28They don’t know.

10:30I forgave them, please forgive them too!

10:34They think they have killed me.

10:38I was born for this day. I don’t die.

10:41The Qur’an says, people assume they have crucified Jesus.

10:46How do Muslims understand this event?

10:48They say that Jesus was abducted and instead people crucified someone who looked like him.

10:53So God is a fake?

10:55So angels will abduct Jesus and put a look alike in his place?

11:09Serhan: Why would God need to do such things?

11:11Is this a joke?

11:15Jesus says:

11:20those who are born of bodies are bodies. Those who are born of spirits are spirits.

11:23Jesus says, God’s kingdom will be inherited by spirits,

11:30not bodies.

11:32I am not a body,

11:35therefore you can’t say you killed me.

11:38I was entrusted with this body.

11:41You can kill my body, but

11:42you can’t kill me.

11:46Spirits do not die.

11:48Serhan: I was just thinking the same thing.

11:56Are you going to play something?

11:58Yes

12:07Our Çilingir Sofrası is slowly turning into a table of crazies.

12:18You were going to play Indian music but you fooled me.

12:22I couldn’t take you to India!

12:26Serhan: I can’t really separate Indian music from our music.

12:34That is called intelligence.

12:36They are ‘like that’. Remember that anecdote?

12:44But look, there is a progression of Indian, Persian, Arabic and

12:51then Ottoman music.

12:53Indian music is ‘free’ but when we get to

12:55Persian music, we see some discipline,

13:06When we come to Arabs, there is more discipline in their music

13:09Finally Ottoman music is the most disciplined.

13:11That is classical Ottoman music.

13:12Sinan: So there are four different stages.

13:14Ottomans are the only ones that have ‘classical music’.

13:16There is no classical music in Arab music.

13:17No classical music in Pers.

13:21We will talk about the meaning of ‘classic’ later.

13:31Music is universal, but has a different language based on different cultures it comes from.

13:38I just wish we had an Indian ‘tabla’ here.

13:41Can, are you going to help us here?

13:53Serhan Yasdıman is performing “Erenler’in Sohbeti Ele Gelesi Değil”

17:12Serhan Yasdıman is performing “Erenler’in Sohbeti Ele Gelesi Değil”

17:36Thank you.

17:40Sinan: Serhan just improvised and he makes new compositions on the spot.

17:55So obviously it is not about what you wear on your body, on your head.

18:01What is it then?

18:02“Amelsiz didar olmaz” (words in the song)

18:05Serhan: What is ‘didar’?

18:07Didar means seeing ‘Cemal’ (Beauty) What that means is that in order to see beauty, one needs experience.

18:15I can try to understand it with my mind, or I can read about it in books.

18:20No, it doesn’t work, the veil cannot be lifted that way. It can only be lifted with experience.

18:25"Çilingir Sofrası 18 / Upanishad, Yoga, Samsara, Moksha, Nirvana" translated by Prof. Dr. Nükhet Kardam