NEW ATTACK: 4,000 Bitcoin Stolen OVERNIGHT??? Are You Affected? | EP 1586

0:02A new Bitcoin hack has drained 4,000

0:05Bitcoin overnight worth over 300

0:09million.

0:10And what's suspicious about the timing

0:12of this new exploit is the fact, of

0:15course, that it comes only 5 weeks after

0:17the record-breaking $130 million coldard

0:21hardware wallet exploit. And really,

0:24it's probably more that the Bitcoin

0:26price didn't even flinch on the news.

0:29It's just doing its own thing. But this

0:32is a brand new exploit that broke

0:35yesterday. So, we don't have all the

0:37information yet, but I'll do my best to

0:39try to explain who andor what was

0:42affected and what this means for Bitcoin

0:44moving forward. So, guys, what what's

0:48Sneak always say? Uh, it's never boring

0:50in Bitcoin. Well, hey, this might

0:52actually be the worst bare market ever

0:54in terms of sentiment. I I think that's

0:56confirmed now. and and of course in

0:58terms of the exploits the we haven't re

1:02we didn't really see the capitulation

1:03but it it's been pretty brutal for

1:05everyone involved in Bitcoin. So anyways

1:07what am I talking about? I think this

1:10might have been the first tweet that

1:12really kind of highlighted what happened

1:14and it was erggo BTC and it goes liquid

1:17got got we saw a liquid pegout

1:20transaction of 4,000 or 400 or 4,000 to

1:24420,000 bitcoin and the hacker there was

1:27an op return message and the hacker

1:29basically said we are white hats contact

1:32us on chain so it wasn't at least while

1:36we had this ongoing information

1:38yesterday. It wasn't a, you know, a

1:40hacker, someone attacking and stealing

1:43that Bitcoin. It looked like it was a

1:44white hat, a someone that is essentially

1:47was looking into the code and did this

1:49preemptively so that hackers weren't

1:51able to exploit the code. Now, going

1:54further,

1:56of course, same message. It was a

1:59lightning or sorry liquid network bridge

2:02that was exploited and the timing is

2:05suspicious just in in terms of this

2:08ongoing as everyone's been calling it

2:11token wars or really using AI to exploit

2:14code you know critically

2:18important code and there is a there is

2:21another kind of suspicious timing of all

2:23this so apparently chat GBT launched

2:26chat GBT6 aka Astra a few days ago and

2:31now we see this happening with liquid.

2:34So it looks again we don't have all the

2:36information but it looks like the

2:38hackers were out there you know we had

2:40the infamous red team that were doing

2:43very good response after the cold card

2:45exploit. We also had Bitcoin Loop from

2:48Block doing something very similar. But

2:50it looks as if we are still, as I said

2:53was going to happen, in this phase right

2:56now where everyone is using the latest

2:59AI um you know, agents to check code

3:05here and not just good guys. All right,

3:08so this was a this was a pretty good

3:10example of the good guys doing it.

3:11Though at first it did seem a bit

3:14uncertain whether the coin would

3:16actually return, whether they were

3:17actually white hats, but I do have

3:19updates on all that. So, we are still in

3:20the midst of the quote unquote token

3:22wars where coders, hackers, whether

3:25they're good guys or bad guys, you know,

3:27white hats or actual uh I guess you

3:30would say criminals are using AI to

3:34doublech checkck all of the critical

3:36infrastructure code out there and see if

3:38there's any bugs, any latent bugs. So,

3:41as we keep going further into the, you

3:45know, beginning of the 2030s and as we

3:47start to see AI improve incredibly and

3:50dramatically, I think we are going to

3:52continue to see similar things happen.

3:54Though I guess the silver lining is is

3:56as these AI exploits kind of continue

4:00that the code does become better and as

4:03the newer AI models come out hopefully

4:06the current bugs and exploitable code

4:09has already been fixed. So the newer

4:11code AI agents won't actually be able to

4:14exploit this critical infrastructure

4:15moving forward. So again, it seems like

4:18we are in the midst of a new AI model

4:21coming out and then hackers and coders

4:24using that to doublech check and also

4:26potentially exploit the critical code

4:30not just in Bitcoin. Again, I do want to

4:33emphasize that this isn't just a Bitcoin

4:36problem. As I mentioned last week and I

4:39believe the week before, we are starting

4:40to see that these AI exploits are kind

4:44of uh spreading to other critical

4:48infrastructure. Tradfi obviously the big

4:50story that we saw last week was that

4:52allegedly Chinese statebacked hackers

4:55hacked into the Fed and the DOJ and

4:57there was someone else. So it's not just

4:59a Bitcoin issue, but obviously as we

5:02know Bitcoin is a crit uh bearer asset.

5:05sorry, not critical, a bearer asset. So

5:08if you are able to exploit the coins and

5:10you own that coin and you send it to an

5:12address that you own, there's really

5:14nothing you can do to roll it back. And

5:16that's why we are seeing Bitcoin attack

5:19first because of the

5:23I guess I don't want to say inherent

5:25characteristics of Bitcoin, but because

5:26of the characteristics of Bitcoin that

5:28once you own the keys, once you hold

5:30that Bitcoin, it's your Bitcoin. It it

5:33really goes back to that classic, you

5:35know, uh, possession is 9/10en of the

5:37law. Well, in Bitcoin, it's everything.

5:39If you possess the coin, it's yours.

5:41Yes, there is, of course, a legal route

5:43here and a criminal element of this. And

5:46hopefully, you know, law enforcement is

5:48actually capable of doing their job. Um,

5:50but that's why we're seeing these

5:52exploits happen on Bitcoin. Though, this

5:54is a there is a silver lining here. So

5:57even though it was a little uncertain

5:59whether these were actual white hats,

6:03there is a a happierish ending than we

6:06heard with the cold card exploit. So the

6:09numbers here, this 4,000 Bitcoin that

6:11was exploited by white hats at the time

6:14is about 95% of the liquid network,

6:17which is a layer 2 network um on top of

6:20Bitcoin to transact and of course add

6:22privacy. though this, you know, for the

6:26uh for the Bitcoiners out there, uh it

6:29is another kind of black eye on the on

6:32the face of Blockstream. Though I don't

6:33necessarily want to say, oh, you know,

6:36there's some conspiracy here with

6:37Blockstream, but Blockstream has been in

6:39a lot of the uh more interesting stories

6:43during this bare market. And here we

6:46have another one, though. Again, this

6:48one does end a little happier. But let

6:50me read you this tweet here. It is a

6:52little longer, but this is from uh Cayab

6:54BTC and he does a good it it is a little

6:57bit of a layman kind of breakdown of

7:00what this exploit was. So again, it is a

7:02little technical. I am going to read the

7:03whole thing so that you guys can kind of

7:05understand what happened. So liquid hack

7:07explained

7:09liquid has confidential transactions

7:11that hide the amounts for improved

7:12privacy. a bug in how these transactions

7:14are validated cause inflation of liquid

7:17Bitcoin or LBTC which you see in um some

7:21of the more popular Bitcoin wallets

7:23right now. In particular, you see that

7:25in Aqua. So, if you've been using Aqua,

7:27you will have noticed that there is a

7:30lightning to liquid Bitcoin um

7:35swap. I blanked on the word. Hey, I took

7:37a day off and I'm already blanking on

7:39the words. Um, so that it is in some of

7:42the more popular Bitcoin uh wallets out

7:45there. In particular, the one that

7:47everyone uses is Aqua. Anyways,

7:50um, a bug in how these transactions are

7:52validated cause inflation of LBTC and

7:55allowed hackers to empty the empty the

7:57entire side chain. Liquid nodes don't

7:59see the amounts of a confidential

8:01transaction. So to make sure that the

8:02transaction is still valid and doesn't

8:05cause inflation, nodes check something

8:06called a balance proof and a range

8:09proof. The balance proof establish that

8:11sum of the input that the sum of the

8:13input amounts equal the output amounts.

8:16I.e. that XLBTC going in and XLBTC going

8:19out. But there's a catch. Only relying

8:21on balance proof isn't enough. You also

8:23need the range proof. The range proof

8:25establishes that a hidden amount or a

8:27hidden output amount falls within a

8:29positive range. That means that a valid

8:31output must be at least one LSAT and at

8:34most 2 to the 64 minus one LSAT range

8:38proof. Make sure that you can't mint

8:40negative LBTC. Why is this even

8:42necessary? Remember, the amounts are

8:44hidden and a hidden negative amount

8:45would allow X or positive outputs to

8:47balance against it. Without a range

8:49proof, a transaction could say, I've put

8:51one LBTC in and I'm taking two LBTC

8:54outputs out. one with 4,000 LBTC and one

8:57with negative 399.

9:00Wait, 3,999 LBTC. This is going to cause

9:04a disaster in a little bit. Once the

9:06balance proof, the range proof and other

9:07validations pass, a transaction is

9:09regarded as valid and can pass

9:11consensus. However, because especially

9:14the range proof is computationally

9:15expensive, liquid nodes cache the result

9:18of a successful range proof in memory.

9:20Essentially, the node remembers, I saw

9:23this range proof before and it was

9:24valid. All good. In order to recognize

9:27the same range proof later on, you need

9:29to assign a label to it. This is called

9:31a cash key. This cash key is the actual

9:33cause of the bug. The way this cash key

9:35was constructed allowed two different

9:37transactions to collide on their cash

9:39key. Essentially, one valid transaction

9:42or one LBTC in, one LBTC out had the

9:45same cash key as an invalid transaction.

9:48one LBTC in and 4,000 LBTC out. And

9:52here's the hack. The attacker submitted

9:54the valid transaction first. Liquid

9:56nodes verified this transaction,

9:58successfully created a cash key called

10:00wrecked and stored it in their cash.

10:02Then the attackers carefully crafted a

10:05second invalid transaction with the

10:074,000 Bitcoin going out of liquid that

10:09created the same cash key rat. Instead

10:12of validating the second transaction and

10:14realizing that it printed money out of

10:15thin air, liquid nodes found it in their

10:18cash and said, "Hey, I saw this

10:19transaction before. Everything is fine."

10:21And that caused the inflation. The

10:23attackers then took their 4,000 LBTC and

10:25withdrew 4,000 Bitcoin onto the Bitcoin

10:27base chain. Now, they did kind of

10:30simplify this, but as we see here from

10:33Jakamo, he says, "Look, it's pretty much

10:35good enough to explain what's going on."

10:36Here's Jakamo's tweet. goes your example

10:39of exploit or your example is exploiting

10:42a wrong balance and not rang range. So

10:44maybe improvable there but pretty good

10:46explanation overall. I think some

10:48interesting details lie in when the bug

10:50was first discovered where was it fixed

10:52i.e. years ago in elements but not GDK

10:55or something like that when it was

10:57exploited first was it bolts we don't

10:59know how was it fixed was it fixed

11:02incorrectly again we don't have all the

11:04information yet and how the fix was

11:06disclosed and propagated. So, it looks

11:08as if this is a bug that's been sitting

11:12in liquid code base for a few years.

11:16Again, we are all assuming that they use

11:19a new AI model to exploit this. Um,

11:22obviously, it does seem, again, to kind

11:25of spoil the ending of this, it does

11:27seem as if it was a white hat. And here

11:30is the conversation in regards to

11:33the back and forth between Blockstream

11:36and the white hat via OP Returns. So,

11:39hey, I know OP Returns has been if

11:41you're more if you're more in the uh

11:44technical side of Bitcoin. I know OP

11:46Returns has been one of the biggest

11:47discussions in Bitcoin over the last

11:49year. Well, I guess this version of it,

11:52it's not so much about spam and it's

11:53it's kind of like a happy ending here.

11:55So, let me pull that up. Shouts out to

11:58um Galaxy Research. They tweeted this

12:01and it goes, "Okay, so here's how it

12:02went. Liquid white hats say they'll

12:06return most of the 4,000 Bitcoin once

12:08Liquid Network bug is patched."

12:10Go on. Stupid question. Could you define

12:13what a white hat is for the audience?

12:14>> Well, I I did. Essentially, it's hackers

12:17that are the good guys that are

12:18exploiting the code, but essentially

12:20they're saying, "Look, we're not

12:21stealing this Bitcoin. We're not ste

12:23we're not exploiting the code for

12:25nefarious reasons. Uh we're doing it to

12:28preemptively kind of protect you you

12:31know the coin from a bad hacker. Did was

12:33that was that a good enough lame

12:35explanation of this? Okay, wrong one.

12:38Okay. So then going on it goes the

12:40hackers have been conversing with

12:41Blockstream via OP return messages and

12:43PGP encrypted texts at block 965,822.

12:48Blockstream addresses sent 1,000 sat

12:52with please contact

12:53security@blockstream.com

12:55at block 965,865.

12:59An encrypted message addressed to the

13:01holder's own key with a detached PGP

13:03signature and that signature verifies

13:05against the key published at

13:07blockstream.com/pgp.teex.

13:09So they verified that it was, you know,

13:12the white hackers or white hackers

13:14verified that they were in fact talking

13:16to the Blockstream team. Going further,

13:18block 965,869.

13:21The hacker replied by self- spending

13:23their own balance but sending a thousand

13:25sats to the Federation's PEG wallet and

13:27the text sending most back to the

13:29Federation address. Is that okay? And

13:32then at block 965,875

13:35the answer again a self spend with

13:37thousand sats peeled to the federation

13:39and an op return reading. Please fix the

13:42bug first. The chain is under risk at

13:44latest commit right now. Make sure every

13:46node is patched. then we will transfer

13:48the money back safely after confirming

13:50the fix. Technical details follow uh as

13:53a PGP message encrypted to Blockstream

13:55publish key so only Bloxream can read

13:57it. So interesting back and forth

13:59through OP return. And then actually the

14:02latest update right before we went live

14:04on the show was this that apparently the

14:07white hack hackers returned 3,400

14:10Bitcoin to the Liquid Federation. It

14:12looks like as of now there's still 600

14:15Bitcoin that stayed behind. So maybe the

14:18White Hat hackers are paying themselves,

14:21you know, a bounty fee of 600 Bitcoin

14:24for this, which is what, like $50

14:26million. Yeah. But you also can't make

14:29that assumption because you don't know

14:31what Block uh you don't know what

14:33Blockstream Let me be specific. You

14:35don't know what Blockstream said in that

14:37message.

14:38>> That's true. That is okay. That's that's

14:40>> could have been a that could have been

14:42an agreement that they reached.

14:43>> True. They ain't doing this for free.

14:46Now, I think I think the the the

14:49equation cuz like normally what happens

14:50guys when there's there's these types of

14:52critical bounties that are found

14:55>> they companies pay a lot of money for

14:57them, right? So, I I don't know. And the

15:00and think about the magnitude of this,

15:03right? This basically ended the liquid

15:05experiment, right? Um, dude, dude,

15:11go on. Go on. We We'll discuss go. Um,

15:15so I don't know what the agreed upon,

15:18you know, like, hey, look, we found this

15:20bounty. I don't I don't know what the

15:22the agreed upon bounty fee or rate was,

15:25right? Uh, but at the end of the day,

15:28look, they didn't have to return

15:29anything at all, right? So, you know,

15:32the fact that they're doing this is I

15:35applaud them for that. Now, obviously,

15:37they're going to want to get paid in

15:39some regard.

15:41>> I don't know what that amount is, right?

15:45Um, but again, there are some messages

15:47that were encrypted between the two, so

15:49I'm assuming that that was kind of part

15:51of the uh the negotiation. But again,

15:55I'm speculating here because I don't

15:56know what that message said. Yeah, we we

15:58don't have all the information

15:59>> but but they but they it is expected

16:01it's the norm that there is some type of

16:03fee for finding this type of exploit. I

16:06think the the question is on everybody's

16:07mind is what was that fee uh agreed

16:10upon. So and and this also explains why

16:14they didn't want to communicate over

16:16email.

16:17>> Yeah. because they pushed back on the

16:19email communication cuz initially

16:20Blockstream was like, "Hey, please email

16:22this address." And they were like, "No,

16:24no, no, no. We're going to communicate

16:26via onchain, right?" Uh, which also on a

16:29little bit of a side note, that is so

16:32effing badass, right? So like all Wait,

16:35but Nico, they're they're they're

16:36spamming the Bitcoin network.

16:39So this is so badass because these are

16:42hundreds of millions of dollars that,

16:44you know, are under risk, right? They're

16:46just kind of out there. And this is all

16:50happening, this communication,

16:53this money being returned, this money

16:55being uh excluded, this is all happening

16:58outside of the traditional financial

17:00system, which is really, really cool.

17:02Opti, I'm going to pass it on to you.

17:04>> Okay. Um, well, Nico Nico had to run

17:08off. He's uh we we got a guest coming in

17:10studio right now. Um so

17:14I mean Nico said this ends um liquid

17:19which

17:20I think maybe right now you know in the

17:23fa I think I think if I'm thinking of

17:25this in just a vacuum I would say

17:27probably not but I think considering

17:30that we saw the cold card wallet exploit

17:33and we are still kind of dealing with

17:34that and the community has been pretty

17:37divided in terms of cold card themselves

17:40as a company is Like

17:42should cold card be held responsible?

17:44Should cold card basically wrap up their

17:46services? Like I just saw on Twitter

17:49over the weekend uh and I tried to

17:51unplug this weekend, guys. I I have a

17:52whole rant on Twitter that maybe I'll do

17:54one day this week. Uh just like how how

17:57much better I felt not being on Twitter,

17:59but that that's besides the point. Um,

18:01so I saw on Twitter there was a little

18:02back and forth where I think Cold Card

18:04was saying that they have a lot of

18:07Bitcoin resellers and that they're still

18:08selling cold cards with the updated

18:10firmware. Um, and the community has been

18:13divided on this is like I've seen some

18:16people that I that I consider friends

18:17and that I consider, you know,

18:19relatively smart in terms of code and

18:21hardware and understanding the various

18:24trade-offs and they're like, Cold Card's

18:26probably the most battle tested wallet

18:29at this point. Everyone else is like,

18:31I'm never going to use Cold Card again.

18:33And so we we're still dealing with the

18:35aftermath of that. Obviously, a lot of

18:37people lost their life savings. It's

18:38absolutely horrible.

18:40And so I think as we're still dealing

18:42with the as everyone's been calling it

18:44token wars or AI versus Bitcoin right

18:47now, you know, hackers using AI to

18:49exploit Bitcoin infrastructure, I think

18:52we're still as users, as individuals, as

18:55a community trying to understand how we

18:59feel moving forward after these

19:01exploits. Does this mean that Liquid

19:03will be better off moving in the future?

19:06Or as Nico was kind of saying, does this

19:08mean that no one wants to use liquid

19:10anymore? That that experiment of liquid

19:13failed?

19:15I don't really know. Obviously, like I

19:18never really use liquid. I honestly like

19:21I like the Aqua wallet, but that whole

19:23swap from Lightning into LBTC into

19:26liquid Bitcoin, it like I was like uh at

19:29first it was one of the things that

19:30really made me not want to use the

19:32wallet. And then I used it and I was

19:33like, "Oh man, it's so simple. this this

19:35works magically. And so

19:38what does this mean moving forward?

19:40Obviously to be completely clear and I

19:43think this is a a much needed

19:45clarification that we had to do during

19:47the cold card wallet exploit is that

19:49this h does have this hold on this has

19:52no fundamental effect on Bitcoin the

19:56network as a base chain. This isn't a

19:59Bitcoin exploit. Bitcoin's not broken or

20:01anything like that. This was a layer 2

20:04project with liquid, you know, that

20:06Blockstream created that was exploited.

20:09It looks as if now it's been patched.

20:12Most of the coin has been returned. We

20:14really don't know what's going on with

20:15that last 600 Bitcoin. But again, I

20:19think as we continue to go into this new

20:24AI experiment and how to deal with

20:26critical infrastructure and code, I

20:29think everyone's like, you know, what

20:30what do we do? Are we not using liquid?

20:32It's like the same. I was bringing up

20:34the idea of uh with cold card, you know.

20:36Dude, dude, are people still going to

20:37use cold card or is everyone like I'm

20:39never touching that again.

20:40>> This is going to keep happening. Think

20:42like thank God for that white hat,

20:45right?

20:45>> Oh, without a doubt.

20:46>> Thank God for that white hat because

20:47this could have gone the other way which

20:51would have been catastrophic to say the

20:54least, right? Like think about it. Think

20:56about like the time proxidity time

21:00proximity of these exploits, right? You

21:03had the cold card exploit and then now

21:05you had this exploit coming on the heels

21:08of that. So if you're just like kind of

21:11like a Bitcoin layman, you're not like

21:13into the nitty-gritty or into the

21:15technicalities and you're looking at

21:16this from the outside in, like you're

21:20like, dude, like why shouldn't I just

21:23get the ETF? This is crazy talk. Like

21:26this is insane. Like nothing's protected

21:28anymore.

21:28>> Okay. British British Bitcoin.

21:30>> Should I even should I even should I

21:32even even like should I even use Bitcoin

21:34on chain, right? Um and this is by the

21:37way this is going to continue to

21:39accelerate. These AI models, these LLM

21:42models are going to continue to get

21:44better and they're going to continue to

21:47find vulnerabilities. So what that means

21:50it is on the developers like if you're a

21:55Bitcoin developer, if you're a Bitcoin

21:58hardware uh wallet manufacturer, you

22:00should be stress testing your products

22:03with these engines,

22:06>> the latest engine

22:07>> with the latest engines. You should be

22:09stress testing your code because they're

22:13significantly faster than human review

22:16and they will find exploits as has been

22:19demonstrated over the last month or two.

22:23This is going to continue to happen. And

22:26this is just a foreshadowing of what

22:29will happen with the quantum stuff. When

22:32the quantum stuff gets to a point where

22:35they can essentially brute force a

22:37Bitcoin uh address,

22:41I better hope that first quantum attack

22:45or whatnot comes from a white hat,

22:48right? And remember, the chain is going

22:52to have to like in a way

22:55it's going to have to hard fork in some

22:57type of sense. Like it could be a soft

23:00fork, but what happens to the people

23:02that don't switch to a quantum resistant

23:06Bitcoin address?

23:09What happens to that? And then there's

23:10like the other question which is we

23:14don't know if addresses that haven't

23:18been spent from

23:20are quantum resistant themselves. We

23:23don't know that.

23:25We know that from a technical

23:27perspective the addresses that have been

23:29spent from

23:33are not as quantum resistant. So, we

23:35don't there's a lot of questions here,

23:37but ultimately and this weaves me into

23:40my main point, ladies and gentlemen,

23:44Bitcoin is software. At the end of the

23:47day, it's software. So, if you think

23:51that

23:53it's just as simple as buying the latest

23:57and greatest hardware wallet of your

23:59choosing and then putting that into

24:04a drawer and just riding into the

24:08sunset, you are wrong.

24:12It's going to require you to stay on top

24:16of what is going on.

24:19It's going to require you to figure out

24:24what's going on.

24:26It's going to require you to put in the

24:28time, put in the energy, put in the work

24:31to make sure that your self-custodial

24:34setup is good. And you could use the

24:37same analogy with gold, by the way.

24:40When you take personal responsibility of

24:43your wealth, think about it. Let's say

24:46you get a bunch of gold, that's how you

24:49store your wealth, and you bury it in

24:51the backyard. What if you have gardeners

24:53coming in that day?

24:56What if you move?

24:58What if there's a natural catastrophe?

25:02There's a hurricane. There's an

25:03earthquake.

25:06It takes constant

25:08surveillance or better said constant

25:11awareness

25:13of what that custodial setup looks like

25:16because if not you're going to have to

25:18outsource it to somebody else. And by

25:21the way, the person you're outsourcing

25:22it to, they're using the same tools you

25:25you are.

25:27They're using a two of three multi-IG.

25:29They're using a three of five multi-IG.

25:31They're using the same thing, right? You

25:33know, you could you can make the

25:35argument that there's more sophisticated

25:37setups and they're not really using

25:39hardware wallet. They're using dedicated

25:41devices, etc., etc., but they're all

25:43using the same

25:47Bitcoin

25:52protocol level tools that you can as an

25:56individual. So, it's just a question of

25:59are have you put in the time, right? And

26:02that's why when the cold card exploit

26:04happened, we detourred from our normal

26:09regularly regularly scheduled

26:10programming to give you guys a full dose

26:14of how many different

26:17collaborative custody solutions you can

26:20use. Of course, our favorite is the is

26:22is the it's allin-one, the Bit Key. It

26:25has multi-IG built in. It makes it feel

26:28like you're spending from a single SIG

26:30address. Then there's the collaborative

26:32custody companies like Casa and

26:35Unchained. Then there's the open- source

26:37versions like Lyanna. Then we had Bitv

26:40Vault, not BitVault as in my handle, but

26:42Bitvault as in V A L U T, which uses the

26:46time locks. B V A L T.

26:49>> Thank you. That has the that utilizes

26:52the time locks that are inherently built

26:54in to the Bitcoin protocol.

26:57So again, there are no perfect solutions

27:00here. There are just tradeoffs and you

27:03need to find the right tradeoff for

27:06where you currently are in your Bitcoin

27:08journey.

27:10Because again, if you hold a token

27:13amount of Bitcoin and you have it on a

27:15single signature device, okay, great.

27:18But if you have your life savings in

27:21Bitcoin

27:22and you have it on a single signature

27:24device, the day of infamy, which was

27:27July 30th, proved, at least in my case,

27:32that that model, I know that this is

27:35unpopular. I know I've heard other

27:37people say this, but to me, you cannot

27:40rely on a single point of failure. Full

27:43stop. And you know what the ironic part

27:45is? and and I take a little bit of blame

27:48for this as well is that your favorite

27:51Bitcoin influencer, your favorite

27:53Bitcoiner,

27:56the person who's been advocating for

27:58self-custody, if they have a significant

28:00amount of Bitcoin and if they're a

28:02Bitcoin influencer and they, you know,

28:04there they work in the industry, I'm

28:06assuming, you know, I I sold all my

28:08Bitcoin. I don't have any Bitcoin. I

28:09lost in a voting accident, but I'm

28:11assuming they have a big portion of

28:13their of their net worth in Bitcoin. I

28:15guarantee you they've been using

28:18multi-IG this entire time.

28:21So,

28:23it sucks because

28:27myself and the other creators, we were

28:30so hellbent on pushing people towards

28:32self-custody, but at the same time, we

28:35were not advocating for what we were

28:36doing ourselves,

28:38which is utilizing multi-IG. Multi-IG

28:43protects you from single point of

28:44failure and it actually protects you

28:46from physical attacks as well.

28:50Multi-IG is fantastic. It's really not

28:52that complicated to use, especially if

28:54you use the collaborative custody

28:56services,

28:58but it should be the default if you hold

29:01your life savings in Bitcoin or if you

29:04hold a significant portion of your net

29:05worth in Bitcoin. You should not be

29:08using a single point of failure aka a

29:10single SIG. If it's a again, if it's a

29:13token amount, if you're using using it

29:15for everyday spends and receives, fine,

29:19understandable.

29:21Multisig just adds a little bit more

29:23complexity. But if it's your long-term

29:26cold storage, multisig should be the

29:29default. What do you think, Opti?

29:31>> Um,

29:34no. I I still I'd still say the same

29:35thing. It just it depends on people's

29:37technical levels. Like I I understand

29:39what you're saying, but my main push

29:41back on this whole thing, it was it

29:43wasn't that single sig password pass or

29:46single seed seed phrases were hacked. It

29:48was a faulty entropy from cold card.

29:51Like

29:51>> it it doesn't matter. It was a single

29:53point of failure. But I get that. But

29:56hold on. Hold on. Nico, hold on. what

29:58you're saying or rather maybe it's just

30:00you need to update the way you're saying

30:02it is you're you when you went on that

30:05rant you didn't say it's because of a

30:07single company like you're saying single

30:10sigs themselves have been destroyed as a

30:12as an industry standard but in fact it

30:14was a company that messed up

30:16>> yes but that that rein Thank you for for

30:19saying that

30:19>> it's just clarifying the rhetoric no no

30:21no thank you for clarifying the rhetoric

30:23because it reinforces the rhetoric

30:25>> I agree I agree but the way you're

30:27saying it is implying lying that single

30:28sigs broke, which is not what happened.

30:31>> It's not broke, but the the the thing

30:33that you guys have to wrap your head

30:34around is is like, think about it this

30:37way, just logical common sense, right?

30:40You're relying on a$100 to $200 to $300

30:44device

30:46to store your life savings. That is a

30:49single point of failure. That is what

30:52multi-IG removes, right? But there's

30:55still that's why that's why I caveed my

30:58take with it depends on the people's

31:00technical abilities is that's what that

31:02would be my my biggest like push back.

31:05>> That's why the bit key is fantastic.

31:06>> I agree but because it has it

31:09>> you are trusting bit key.

31:10>> No you're not dude.

31:12>> You are though.

31:12>> No because one key lives on the bit key

31:15one key lives on your phone secure

31:18element and then one bit one key lives

31:21on the block servers. I get that. But

31:23it's still you're trusting a company did

31:26code everything correctly and that's and

31:29that's a trade-off for some people. I'm

31:30not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying

31:31that's a trade-off.

31:32>> This goes back into the conversation of

31:33trade-offs.

31:34>> I I agree. I'm just saying there is

31:36trade-offs to everything is what I'm

31:38saying. But Single Sigs themselves did

31:40not break. No, no, no, no, no, no. They

31:42did. Of course they didn't break on a

31:44protocol level. Of course, 100%. OPI's

31:46100% like on the dot there. But what I'm

31:50trying to say is if you hold a

31:52significant amount of Bitcoin, you

31:54should not have a single point of

31:55failure. I would agree with that

31:57>> because even if you had a cold card and

32:00you were using a cold card as part of

32:02your multisig setup,

32:06>> the exploit did not affect you

32:08whatsoever if you used the cold card

32:10random number generator.

32:11>> Hold up. Someone someone in the chat.

32:13Even if even if you used all cold cards

32:18in your multi-IG setup and you used the

32:20random number generator to create the

32:22seeds of those uh uh uh for those for

32:26for that multi-IG setup, even if that

32:29were the case, you would still not have

32:32been initially affected by this exploit.

32:37So,

32:39it bought you time to move or to update

32:43your setup, which again reinforces my

32:46point. Use multi-IG. Use it. Whether

32:49it's the Bit Key, which I recommend to

32:51my friends and family, or whether it's

32:53your own multi- vendor multi-IG with a

32:57collaborative custody service, or you

32:59can go full tinfoil hat and set up a

33:02sovereign multi-IG solution. Uh, it's

33:05totally up to you. But the point I'm

33:06trying to make, the big point I'm trying

33:08to make is guys, self-custody comes with

33:11personal responsibility. The the cliche

33:14Spider-Man quote, right? Uh, with great

33:17respons uh with great power comes great

33:19responsibility, right? And I think

33:22unfortunately,

33:24and again, there's no way you you can't

33:26go back in time and say, "Oh, this was

33:28inevitably going to happen." No, it

33:30becomes obvious in hindsight, right? But

33:34like think about it for a second. Like

33:36think about it for a second. Was this

33:38obvious in hindsight? Of course it was

33:41obvious in hindsight, right? And I think

33:43the lesson here is no single points of

33:46failure. If you're holding a significant

33:49amount of Bitcoin, if you're going to

33:51use a single SIG with no passphrase,

33:56you better hope that that seed was

34:00generated with enough entropy.

34:03You better hope so. And

34:06my recommendation there is if you're

34:09going to go down the single sig route is

34:12create your own entropy using dice

34:15rolls. And don't just use it a 100

34:17times. Use it two 300 times. Not because

34:21it's going to add more entropy, but just

34:24so that it adds more randomness

34:27to uh to that seed creation or to ensure

34:30that it it adds it has enough randomness

34:33to that seed creation. So yeah, man. I

34:36mean, you you can't you can't go away

34:39from July 30th and say, "Hey, you know

34:41what? We're going to be fine." It's like

34:43when the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor,

34:45it's like it was un it was unimaginable.

34:47America didn't want to go to war after

34:49World War I. Like it was unimaginable

34:52that the United States was going to

34:53enter into World War II. It was so

34:55unpopular. The United States did not

34:57want to enter into World War II. And

34:59then Pearl Harbor happened and then it's

35:02like, oh crap. Like, you know, like not

35:04only do we have to enter into World War

35:06II, we have to make we have to take a

35:09proactive stance and make sure that we

35:11have aircraft carriers all around the

35:13world to make sure that we don't get

35:16attacked again, right? which you can

35:18make an argument was a little bit too

35:20much, right? Um, but again, like it's

35:23not obvious until it happens and it

35:26happened. So, what's the key takeaway

35:28here? What's the lesson here? If you

35:30don't learn your lessons from the past,

35:31you're destined to repeat them. The

35:33lesson is here, don't rely on single

35:35points of failure. My rant is over. Hey.

35:36Yeah. All right. Cool. Um, I I know we

35:40have a guest coming in in 10 minutes,

35:41but there was a pretty good discussion

35:43having happening in the chat about like

35:46what you said in terms of you can't just

35:50like huddle and forget it. It kind of

35:51brought like the idea in my head of

35:54that's like one of the selling points in

35:56Bitcoin. So, I'm wondering do you do we

35:57do the break or just keep it running and

35:59and discuss this?

36:00>> Let's hit the break and then let's

36:01discuss this and then we'll bring the

36:02guest.

36:02>> Okay. Yeah. cuz I I think it's probably

36:04more value to chat about that than doing

36:07that kind of normal person. All right,

36:09here we go.

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37:18Okay. Okay, we're back. So,

37:22uh Nico Nico had to go and uh get the

37:24gas real quick. So, uh, we have someone

37:26in live. Let me I'll I'll pull up the

37:28numbers real quick and then and then

37:29I'll I'll chat about this a little bit

37:31as we get the guest set up here in the

37:33studio. So, currently the Bitcoin price

37:37is 79,130 at 37.3% discount from

37:42all-time high. We are at almost $1.6

37:46trillion market cap. Currently, 1.59

37:49and the block height is 965,225.

37:52Oh, I see um I see some people in the

37:55chat and uh I'm not going to pick on

37:59Chandandy here. Candy I for who it's

38:01messed up. Candy, I think. Um, and she

38:05basically said,

38:07um, look, self custody now with what we

38:10saw with the cold card stuff is either

38:14maybe it's too difficult or maybe you're

38:16just scared of it and you're much more

38:18comfortable going into like an ETF or a

38:21regulated custody. Now, when I saw these

38:25comments in the chat, um it was really

38:27making me think in terms of, you know,

38:31as as all of us, we're all orange

38:33pilling our friends and family. And for

38:35the longest time, it was like a pretty

38:37easy sell. Well, I mean, it's not the

38:40easiest sell because we still argue with

38:41our friends and family about just buying

38:43Bitcoin and holding it. And you know the

38:46once you make the leap though the cell

38:48was always essentially hey look all you

38:50have to do is hold Bitcoin long term and

38:54you're good obviously then the cold card

38:57wallet exploit happened and we all

39:00realize wait that might not actually be

39:02the case that we will in fact have to in

39:06some sense be vigilant. Now, obviously,

39:08not everyone needs to be chronically

39:10online like we are. Not everyone either

39:14has the bandwidth or even the interest

39:16to be following along on the Bitcoin

39:18discussion. They literally just want to

39:19hold something and forget about it. You

39:21know, Bitcoin and show, you just buy it,

39:23hold it, store it, and never really

39:25think about that more than that. Um, now

39:29obviously we are all, as I was saying a

39:31minute ago while Nico ran off for a

39:33moment. It's like we are all I think as

39:35individuals, as Bitcoiners, and as a

39:37community, all still reeling after these

39:40exploits and wondering like, okay, how

39:43how do we think about this? Can can I

39:45even just hold Bitcoin and chill or am I

39:48constantly going to have to update my

39:51cold storage every two years or

39:53something at this point? And obviously,

39:57not to pick on British Hodddle, but he's

40:00been, I think, one of the main people

40:02proposing this idea. Basically,

40:04self-custody is dead. This is why you

40:05need to go buy the ETF. And now, I have

40:08been, I think, very consistent on this

40:10idea for a while that look, I may not

40:13hold ETFs. I may not think that Bitcoin

40:16treasury companies are something that I

40:18want to hold,

40:20but I do see that there is a need for

40:23the market or rather more a want from

40:26the market to use these products. And I

40:29don't think necessarily I know we all

40:32have the classic memes and rhetoric.

40:34It's like not your keys, not your

40:35Bitcoin. I I believe that. I'm totally

40:37about that. But as we see, not everyone,

40:41you know, fits in the same box. There is

40:43no one-sizefits-all here. And I think

40:46that is kind of what I I don't want to

40:49say the beauty of all these products are

40:51or getting Bitcoin exposure, quote

40:53unquote, and I I'm not talking about

40:55paper Bitcoin here, but various vehicles

40:57for people to access Bitcoin and

41:01obviously get the gains, the number go

41:02up aspect of it. Um maybe not so much

41:05the freedom go up aspect of it, but I do

41:09I think start to see that there is a

41:11need for these products. So, look, I say

41:14all that to essentially say, and I and I

41:16wish Nico's here, but we're getting

41:17we're getting our guest prepped to come

41:19on the show here,

41:22and it does kind of hurt me to say this.

41:24I'm not going to lie. So, you know, if I

41:25get clip clipped out of context, it is

41:28what it is. But

41:30I don't think that you should feel any

41:32less of a Bitcoiner per se if you are

41:34holding some of these ETF products or,

41:37you know, have your Bitcoin in a uh

41:40collaborative custody setup. Like, I

41:42know that's blasphemy, but as we see, a

41:45lot of people aren't comfortable holding

41:47their wealth and a lot of people aren't

41:49comfortable being their own banks. A lot

41:50of people aren't technical enough to do

41:51this. Though, personally, I don't think

41:53it's that difficult. there just does

41:55come a certain amount of responsibility

41:57that comes with it. With that being

41:59said, sorry, hair is crazy. With that

42:01being said, I do think as a network we

42:05will be losing out on something if

42:07everyone just goes into these ETF. If

42:09self- custody is in fact dead, which I

42:12don't believe it is, we we are

42:14fundamentally losing

42:17a key ingredient of what makes Bitcoin

42:19Bitcoin. And that's a shame to see that

42:21we are even having these discussions.

42:22Obviously, we're all maturing as an

42:25industry. We're all maturing as

42:26Bitcoiners throughout this whole

42:27process. So, look, do I think there's a

42:30use case for some people to go into the

42:33ETFs? You know, obviously the market

42:35proved that that that is the case. Um,

42:38do I believe self custody is dead? Not

42:40at all. As you can tell, I was pushing

42:41back on Nico. It's like, look, single

42:43SIG uh pass or seed phrases did not

42:46break. It was just a faulty company that

42:48really kind of hurt the narrative around

42:50Bitcoin. Obviously, you don't

42:53necessarily have to go as far as

42:54multi-IG on everything. There is

42:55passphrases on a single sig seed phrase,

42:58which as we all know stop the cold card

43:01exploit from happening.

43:03There's dice rolls, etc., etc., etc.

43:05It's really more about the effort you

43:08put in before um you send all of your

43:11Bitcoin to your seed phrase. Like yes,

43:15you know, a lot of people trusted cold

43:17card for their seed entropy, their seed

43:20generation. It turned out to be faulty,

43:22but the people that put in the extra

43:23steps that did the the dice rolls that

43:26added their own entropy to the seed

43:27phrase were in fact protected from this

43:30flaw. The people that did I would say

43:33complicated passphrases, not just like a

43:35easy passphrase on top of the single

43:37SID, were also protected. people that

43:39did multisig were obviously protected or

43:42further, you know, a little easier,

43:44people that didn't use cold card were

43:45obviously protected from that exploit.

43:48But it did, while that question was

43:50asked in the chat, it did kind of um pop

43:54the question in my head, you know, like

43:55I'm a propagandist. I'm a Bitcoin

43:57propagandist. I think we need more

43:58Bitcoin propagandists because people do

44:00not think about uh facts. I actually

44:03over the weekend and maybe this is not

44:05the time to uh dive into this

44:07conversation but I was thinking about

44:09like the dumbar number but in terms of

44:11information and I think it's just a key

44:14insight into most of humanity like most

44:17people cannot think through a lot of

44:19information. If you flood their brains

44:21with information they're not going to

44:23get any of that. And I noticed that by

44:26just like I I had to take a a mental

44:29health personal day on Friday. I was

44:30like dude I'm burnt out. I I I'm not

44:33going to work today, dude. Like, I'm not

44:35even going to do any work today. And

44:37then I realized just not going on

44:39Twitter was like the best thing I did

44:41for my mental health. I jumped on

44:42Twitter and I could just feel my

44:44cortisol and anxiety spiking and I was

44:46like, "Oh, it's Twitter that's really

44:47messing me up." But anyways, it got me

44:50thinking in the chat

44:53how we push Bitcoin on people.

44:56Obviously, we believe in Bitcoin. We're

44:57Bitcoiners. We believe in number go up.

44:59We believe in freedom go up. But now it

45:03does seem like we need to either update

45:05our propaganda because look

45:08like if you were shilling cold card to

45:10all your friends and family like it

45:12wasn't comfortable going to every person

45:15you've ever talked to and showed a cold

45:16card and be like hey look um actually

45:18you might be exposed and you might have

45:20lost all your bitcoin like that's not

45:22comfortable. A lot of people are like

45:24I'm never going to shill a hardware

45:26wallet ever again. I'm just not going to

45:28do that. Um, I think that's also a

45:30disservice. It's like, look, we have new

45:32products.

45:34Yes, you know, it's a fast evolving

45:36industry and there is latest and

45:39greatest gear and I know a lot of people

45:41in the chat are always like, "Oh, you're

45:43just shilling stuff. You guys, you know,

45:44you guys are just shilled." It's like,

45:46well, look, we want to make sure that

45:48people are protected, that people are

45:50using the latest and greatest. And it's

45:52not necessarily doing like, oh, you need

45:53the

45:55iPhone 17 Pro Max to keep up with the

45:58Joneses. It's like, hey, look, there's

45:59just new products in the industry that I

46:01think you might like, that I think might

46:03be a benefit to you as a Bitcoiner,

46:05whether you are technical or not. But it

46:08does feel as if we can no longer just

46:11say, "Hey, buy Bitcoin,

46:13store it, and chill and forget about

46:15it." Cuz I know I've done that. I I

46:18literally like pretty much actually did

46:20that with that cold card exploit. I

46:22don't know if I've told the chat, but I

46:24use I uh I had an MK2 cold card and I

46:28hadn't updated the firmware in a long

46:30time. Luckily enough, at the time of the

46:33exploit, I didn't really understand the

46:35the entire details of the exploit, but I

46:39uh you know, my seed generation, my

46:41entropy at the time, I wasn't you know,

46:44I'm like, dude, I seed rolling dice like

46:47there's no way I'm going to do that. So,

46:49I did trust cold card with my entropy

46:51for my C generation, but I used an MK2

46:53model before that bug was introduced.

46:56So, I was protected on that front. But I

46:58found it interesting because look, I had

47:00been planning to update this particular

47:03setup cuz again, I think one of the

47:05things that kind of protected me as

47:07well, even if I did, you know, worst

47:09case scenario, get wrecked, I didn't put

47:11all my eggs in one basket. I have coins

47:13split up in different setups for this

47:15kind of very reason. Um, so if I got

47:18wrecked, it wouldn't have, you know,

47:20completely wiped me out. But, uh, at the

47:22time I didn't understand it all. I just

47:25like I I almost slept on it. I was like,

47:28I don't know. I don't think I really

47:29have to do anything. And then finally

47:32the paranoia kicked in and I realized I

47:34hadn't updated this firmware on this MK2

47:37for like,

47:40I don't know, six years or something.

47:43So, I was I was literally that person,

47:45right? Um but now as we see like we are

47:48in this area now with AI and this whole

47:52token wars exploits and then potentially

47:54in the future you know quantum where we

47:57all know there is going to be a Q day a

48:00quantum day where something will happen

48:02and we as a network will have to update.

48:05So, I'm going to be thinking through

48:07this, but you know, Candy in the chat,

48:10it's like, I get it. You know, like,

48:12look, you just want the Bitcoin

48:14exposure. You want to protect your

48:16purchasing power, the store of value

48:17narrative of Bitcoin. I don't

48:19necessarily think that you are any less

48:21of a Bitcoiner if you do go into the

48:23ETFs. Now, I'm not the biggest fan of

48:25the ETFs, but there is a lot to think

48:28about and there is a lot of tradeoffs

48:31that you have to think through in a

48:33personal level.

48:35You know, the other thing I think I did

48:36mention on the show, one of the things

48:37that I that I kind of understood about

48:41myself is when I had to move my uh my

48:44MK2, you know, during this what was it

48:46July 29th exploit,

48:49if I wasn't as technical as I was, I was

48:53going through this process. I was like,

48:55dude, if if I wasn't this technical, I

48:58would have not been able to move my

48:59Bitcoin at all. And I could have just

49:01wrecked myself on just that very idea.

49:04And that's why I honestly am like a huge

49:08fan of the Bit Key. I know a shilling

49:10the product that we're sponsored by, but

49:12it was so easy. I was like, "Yeah, you

49:14know, I kind of like that it's this

49:17easy." And it did make me nervous

49:19because it was so easy. I'm so used to

49:21going through the pain of storing my

49:23Bitcoin that when I used the Bit Key, I

49:25was like, "Yo, I just it doesn't feel

49:28safe.

49:30But it's I think it's a great trade-off

49:33for me. Now, obviously, I'm going to

49:34split my uh setup, so it's not going to

49:38be all in one basket, but again, you do

49:41have to think through this, and this is

49:43part of personal responsibility. There

49:45is no oneizefits-all.

49:47And yes, unfortunately, moving forward,

49:50it is going to be extremely hard to try

49:53to help your friends and family because

49:55they're obviously going to come to you

49:56as it they're obviously going to come,

49:58hey, you're the Bitcoin expert. What

49:59should I do? Now, you don't want to be

50:01like shilling Bitcoin to your friends

50:03and family and then them and then then

50:05stopping at like, "Oh, yeah, but um I'm

50:07not going to tell you how to secure your

50:09Bitcoin because I don't want to be

50:11respons." Like, bro, like come on. If

50:14your like mom or your brother comes to

50:16you, you're you're really gonna be like,

50:17"Luck, but put your life savings a big

50:19one, but I'm not going to tell you a

50:21story." It's like, "No, let's live in

50:23the real world here." Okay, so I I'll be

50:26thinking through this again. Um, back to

50:30the dumbar number of information. I'm

50:32And I might be rambling here, but uh

50:34well, I guess we'll get we'll start

50:36moving. Okay. Um,

50:40I fundamentally in the last week

50:42realized like we need more propaganda

50:44>> in the sense of if you are talking about

50:49something that you like in particular

50:50Bitcoin, it's like you're not going to

50:52win anyone over with facts and figures,

50:53dude. We we know this. The end the Fed

50:56stuff doesn't work. People don't care

50:57about privacy. People don't care about

50:59freedom. They don't care about inflation

51:01and taxes and all that. You know, it's

51:03destroying your purchasing power. It's

51:04like, no, propagandize Bitcoin. get them

51:07emotional tied to it because the facts

51:09and figures don't work with the majority

51:10of people. So, I'm doubling down on

51:12being a propagandist here. Uh, you know,

51:14hate me all you want, but it is it is

51:16what it is. All right, we're we're going

51:17to do our job and continue to get views

51:19and continue to get more people in

51:20Bitcoin. And I will probably expand on

51:23that a little more, but today is not the

51:25day because we got guests in here. So,

51:28the filibuster is done. I'm going to hit

51:31the chat and uh hopefully you guys in

51:33the chat I'm not following along in the

51:35uh discussion here. But

51:39okay, Candi's still she's still crashing

51:42out. She only gave up. I don't know

51:45people other than Bitcoiners I talked to

51:47online or met because Bitcoin online. I

51:49don't know. Oh, I think that's a

51:50different discussion. All right.

51:51Anyways, uh last break and we will be

51:55right back with our boy Eddie in the

51:57studio. So, give us one second as I

52:00shift out. Nico's going to shift in. So,

52:02we'll be right back.

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53:22YO, WE'RE BACK AND uh we got our boy

53:25Eddie in the studio today.

53:29We got our boy Eddie in the studio

53:31today. Uh and we're going to be talking

53:33about a conference that's coming up in

53:37Miami, ladies and gentlemen. First,

53:40Eddie, how you doing?

53:41>> Good, man. Good. Great. It's beautiful

53:43day in uh in good old Miami. It's always

53:46a beautiful day, but sometimes, I'm not

53:48going to lie, it's hot as hell.

53:50>> It is hot.

53:52>> So, ladies and gentlemen, let's jump

53:54straight into it. Uh Eddie, you're

53:56throwing the first Bitcoin conference in

54:00Miami uh the last three years. There

54:04hasn't been a Bitcoin conference here.

54:06Uh could you talk to us a little bit

54:08about that?

54:09>> Yeah. Um thanks. First of all, thanks

54:11for having me. I really appreciate it.

54:13Um yeah, we're calling it the Sovereign

54:15Summit. It is happening uh February 4th

54:18through the 7th uh 2027.

54:22Um yeah, Bitcoin is going to be

54:24definitely a big part of it. Um we're

54:26kind of building it as sovereignty at

54:28every scale um across AI, energy, money,

54:33which is basically Bitcoin, but we we're

54:35trying to basically appeal to a broader

54:37audience beyond just the kind of um core

54:40Bitcoiners and trying to pull in people

54:42from all sorts of other um areas and

54:44industries because there's so much

54:46overlap and and and so much interest in

54:49a lot of those different spaces. Um but

54:52um yeah and and we're also kind of

54:54including a beyond kind of catchall. Um

54:57they're we're trying to get some people

54:58in the wellness and and longevity um

55:01space, but all of it basically being

55:03around um maximizing human potential and

55:07kind of um knowing I like to think that

55:11sovereignty is really about knowing all

55:13your options. Obviously at the base

55:15layer, having control of of your own

55:17privacy, of your own data is is

55:19fundamental, but just like what we're

55:21seeing with cold card, um, you know, I

55:24think I think there isn't a

55:25one-sizefits-all for everyone. And I

55:27think the way things are evolving so

55:29fast, I think there'll be, let's say,

55:31let's give let's use AI as an example. I

55:33think at the core, hopefully down the

55:35line, you know, most people are are

55:37running things locally, but I think

55:39there's still going to be a use for

55:41frontier models for kind of all these

55:42different other big companies as well.

55:44So, the way those things interact, um, I

55:47think is going to be really interesting

55:48and important. Um, but yeah, sovereignty

55:50is about knowing all your options and

55:53basically knowing the trade-offs and

55:55making a decision for yourself. Um, not

55:58everyone, you know, like in the Bitcoin

56:00world necessarily is going to be holding

56:02their own keys and and um, you know,

56:05being self- sovereign in terms of

56:07self-custody, but you try to push that

56:09and then people have to make their own

56:11decision and and do what's best for

56:12them.

56:14>> Absolutely. And the sovereignty

56:15movement, it goes handinhand with

56:17Bitcoin, right? Because it's not only

56:19about sovereignty over your wealth, but

56:22it's o it's sovereignty over your

56:25health. It's sovereignty over your

56:27communications. It's sovereignty over

56:30your jurisdiction, right? So, it's it it

56:33goes into the thesis of as we talk so

56:36much about here on Simply Bitcoin, it's

56:38the sovereign individual thesis, right?

56:40Which is it goes handinhand with the

56:42name of your summit, right, which is the

56:44sovereign summit. So, I'm really excited

56:46for that. What type of programming do

56:49you have in mind? And then we'll get

56:50into the venue.

56:51>> Yeah. So, um it's going to be um

56:54basically two days, two full conference

56:56days and then a before conference day

56:59and after conference day. So, um the

57:02February 4th is the Thursday before the

57:04conference, a day before conference. And

57:06we're going to have a Bitcoin

57:07fundamentals class for basically for

57:09newbies um to learn. And so, how that

57:13kind of plays itself out, we're not

57:14necessarily sure yet, but um it'll be um

57:17an hour and a half basically content for

57:20for beginners. And then that night, um,

57:23we're gonna have a VIP welcome, uh,

57:25reception. I'm sure there's going to be

57:27other side events as we kind of build

57:29this out, but that's this is what it's

57:30basically looking like for now. And then

57:33Friday and Saturday are going to be two

57:34full conference days with um VIP parties

57:39uh on the Friday night and then Saturday

57:41night we're going to have a fun

57:43afterparty and then um on the Sunday a

57:47farewell brunch. That's what that's what

57:48the programming looks like for today.

57:50But I think there's a lot of moving

57:52parts right now and that's that's

57:54subject to change in terms of more

57:55things being added to the to the list.

57:59>> Absolutely. Absolutely excited for it,

58:01man. I I I can't wait. And uh let's talk

58:04a little bit about the venue because

58:05it's going to be hosted. If you are from

58:08Miami, you know this venue. I don't need

58:10to tell you what it is, but it's going

58:12to be hosted at the Fountain Blue Hotel,

58:15which is a fantastic venue. If you've

58:17been to Miami, you've probably heard of

58:18it. It's super nice. It's It's has this

58:21beautiful view of Miami Beach. You can

58:24see the beach. You could see the ocean.

58:25It's It's beautiful. It's absolutely

58:27gorgeous. So, the venue that you picked

58:29is incredible. Could you talk a little

58:31bit about what you have in mind? Where

58:33the stage is going to be? What can you

58:35reveal? What is the inside baseball

58:38here, Eddie? So, um yeah, the venues was

58:42an important choice um for me. Um, I

58:44really did not want to do it in a

58:46traditional um, convention center space.

58:49Um, so, um, yeah, we we from the get-go,

58:53I knew I didn't want to do in a

58:54convention center. Then from there, I

58:56was like, you know, I really wanted to

58:58be in a nice all-in-one kind of resort,

59:01and Fountain Blue was the only one that

59:02really made sense. And so, um, we picked

59:05Fountain Blue, which was, um, you know,

59:07a no-brainer, amazing property, um, on

59:09the beach, um, restaurants and

59:12everything on site. So, the the goal for

59:14the conference is everyone's going to be

59:16on site and hanging out. And if you're

59:18going to have dinner, if you're going to

59:19have uh breakfast, lunch, or dinner,

59:21it's all going to be on site with your

59:22friends uh and partying afterwards uh

59:25with your friends on site. So, um

59:27>> partying at live

59:29>> potentially potentially at live. Cannot

59:31cannot um cannot confirm nor deny that

59:35the afterparty on Saturday might be at

59:37Liv. We don't we don't know yet, but

59:39that's certainly a possibility.

59:40>> Oh, it's going to be lit, ladies and

59:42gentlemen. And it's going to be it's

59:43going to be great. It's going to be a

59:45good time. Good good old Miami time

59:47talking about sovereignty. I absolutely

59:50love it. You touched upon this a little

59:52bit, Eddie. What makes this one

59:54different than all the rest? Obviously,

59:56it being the first big major Bitcoin big

1:00:00Bitcoin and sovereignty conference in

1:00:02Miami in the LA for the last two or

1:00:04three years now. But what what are the

1:00:07what are the all the other differences

1:00:09as well? Because I think for a lot of us

1:00:11Bitcoiners and a lot of us sovereignty

1:00:13maxis, right, you've gone to so many

1:00:15Bitcoin conferences. You've experienced

1:00:17them. Uh what makes this one stand out

1:00:21in particular?

1:00:22>> Um a couple things. One is, you know, we

1:00:25really wanted it to be not too big, not

1:00:27too small, and the right size. And so,

1:00:29um yeah, for us, it's going to the the

1:00:31venue is basically capped at a thousand.

1:00:33And so um uh we're going to have the

1:00:36plan is to have 200 capped 200 VIPs

1:00:40basically 750 uh GA and then uh 50

1:00:43speakers and so we're going to be a

1:00:44thousand total. So um I think it's

1:00:48special to have something that's not too

1:00:49big but

1:00:50>> it's it's it's an exclusive event.

1:00:53>> It's an exclusive event. That's right.

1:00:55Um and it's just the honestly more than

1:00:57that it's it's the right size. you know,

1:00:59when you get when you go to like a big

1:01:00conference, you get lost with the amount

1:01:02of people. Everyone's doing something

1:01:03different. Everything is kind of uh you

1:01:05got to drive somewhere off site. Um for

1:01:07us, it was like we wanted everything on

1:01:09site. We wanted to be the right size,

1:01:11the right vibes. And then the other part

1:01:12of it is uh the time of year we're doing

1:01:14in February, best time of year in Miami.

1:01:17Um everyone else is freezing their their

1:01:19their asses off and and in Miami, you

1:01:22can have uh

1:01:23>> the weather is fantastic in February.

1:01:26There's only like two or three months in

1:01:28Miami where the weather feels really

1:01:29good and it's December, January,

1:01:31February. So, February is a fantastic

1:01:34date for that. Now, I do want to talk

1:01:37about um you know some of the speakers

1:01:39that have been announced. There's much

1:01:40more speakers that are coming, ladies

1:01:42and gentlemen. But so far, you have the

1:01:45Chad Sailor, Michael Sailor, Natalie

1:01:47Bernell, you have Jeff Booth, you have

1:01:49Sam Callahan, and many more speakers

1:01:51that are that you know that you guys

1:01:53know that are going to be confirmed. So,

1:01:55it's going to be incredibly exciting.

1:01:57You want to get your tickets quickly

1:01:59because the prices do go up on Friday,

1:02:01lady, ladies and gentlemen. Don't sleep

1:02:03on it. Why are you going to pay more

1:02:04sats to wait? That's not a good idea. So

1:02:07get your tickets tickets now before the

1:02:09price increases again. This is going to

1:02:11be an incredible Bitcoin sovereignty

1:02:14celebration here hosted in the beautiful

1:02:16beautiful Miami Beach when the weather

1:02:19is going to be nice. So you're not going

1:02:20to want to miss it. Uh it's going to be

1:02:22absolutely fantastic. There's also going

1:02:25to be some side events as well. Eddie,

1:02:27do you want to talk a little bit about

1:02:28those? Yeah. And just really fast in

1:02:30terms of the speakers, um, you know,

1:02:33we're obviously myself, um, and the

1:02:35organizers, uh, Neil being one of them,

1:02:37Neil Jacobs. Um, he, uh, you know,

1:02:41having bit having Bitcoin speakers, um,

1:02:44isn't going to be necessarily too much

1:02:46of a problem, let's say. I think we're

1:02:48going to be we're going to have great

1:02:49speakers on that end, but our goal is

1:02:51really to um to get great speakers that

1:02:55can speak on AI, that can speak on

1:02:57energy beyond just Bitcoin mining. Um so

1:03:00um definitely stay tuned for other big

1:03:02speakers in kind of those industries as

1:03:04well, beyond just the Bitcoin space. Um

1:03:07Yep.

1:03:08>> Absolutely, man. I'm I'm I'm incredibly

1:03:10excited. So the side events, talk to me

1:03:11about

1:03:11>> So the side events. So the side events

1:03:13right now, we basically just have VIP

1:03:15events that that are planned. um except

1:03:17for the afterparty. Everyone's invited

1:03:19to uh VIPs will just get a ticket

1:03:21automatically and there'll be a VIP

1:03:23area. But um yeah, the side events,

1:03:25we're going to have um basically a

1:03:27rooftop party on the Thursday night

1:03:30before um day one. Um that'll be a VIP

1:03:34only um side event um which will be a

1:03:37lot of fun. And then on the Friday night

1:03:40um we're going to be doing an oceanfront

1:03:42VIP night um at their restaurant lot.

1:03:46So, those are the two things that are

1:03:48basically confirmed. The rest is kind of

1:03:50still up up in the air in terms of

1:03:52actual venue TBD. But, um, yeah,

1:03:57everything's going to be on site, so

1:03:58it's going to be easy. Uh, and we also,

1:04:00another thing I should mention is we're

1:04:01getting a special room block rate at the

1:04:03Fountain Blue. And so, for anyone coming

1:04:05from out of town, that'll be guaranteed

1:04:08lowest rate you'll find. And yeah,

1:04:10there's nothing better than just staying

1:04:12on site, partying on site, being all on

1:04:15site, hanging out with your friends, and

1:04:16the networking. The networking with

1:04:18these awesome, awesome, brilliant minded

1:04:21people. Uh because it is such an

1:04:23exclusive event, not that many people

1:04:25are going to be going. It's a thousand

1:04:26people. You guys cap that on purpose.

1:04:28You're going to be able to talk to some

1:04:30of the brightest minds in the space.

1:04:32>> Yeah, absolutely. That's definitely a

1:04:34big part of it. Um, that's also why at a

1:04:37thousand people and and 200 VIPs, you

1:04:39really get to know one another and get

1:04:40to really um, yeah, have fun together

1:04:43and not be overwhelming where you've got

1:04:45to, you know, rush around and meet

1:04:46everyone. So, that's definitely by

1:04:48design. I absolutely love that. I can't

1:04:49wait for it. I have I have the website,

1:04:51by the way, guys, on the ticker right

1:04:53now, the sovereigns.com.

1:04:56Again, get your tickets quickly because

1:04:58the prices will increase and the tickets

1:05:01are capped, ladies and gentlemen. If you

1:05:03don't get your ticket before that

1:05:05thousand people buy their tickets,

1:05:07you're not going to be able to get more

1:05:08tickets. You're not going to be It

1:05:09reminds me of the of of the live kind of

1:05:12a bouncer type of thing, right? You

1:05:14know, where they don't want to let you

1:05:15in because there's no more space in the

1:05:17venue. It's the same type. It's the same

1:05:19type. So, you want to get your tickets

1:05:20now before they sell out. When they sell

1:05:22out, you're not going to be able to get

1:05:23any more. And again, as I said, the

1:05:26prices do increase and you will get an

1:05:28exclusive rate at the Fountain Blue

1:05:30Hotel. Absolutely beautiful. And I'm

1:05:33assuming it's a discounted rate as well,

1:05:35right?

1:05:35>> Yes, it's going to be the low. It should

1:05:36be the lowest advertised rate. Um,

1:05:38absolutely.

1:05:39>> Fantastic. Fantastic. All right,

1:05:41everybody, get your tickets. I'm going

1:05:43to pull up the website one more time.

1:05:45Get your tickets to the Sovereign

1:05:47Summit, February 4th through the 7th,

1:05:512027.

1:05:532027 is going to be a bull market year,

1:05:55baby. Hopefully. Let's see. Hopefully I

1:05:57didn't just jinx it. Uh but uh it's

1:05:59going to be a bull market year. Meet the

1:06:02people sharing shaping AI, energy,

1:06:04money, open systems, and everything they

1:06:08make possible. Own your future. The

1:06:11Sovereign Summit February 4th through

1:06:14the 27th, 2027. Many more speakers to be

1:06:18announced very, very soon. So again, get

1:06:22your tickets quickly. Before we wrap up

1:06:25today's show, I do want to give a very

1:06:28special shout out to Simply Bitcoin

1:06:30sponsors. Uh, all let me pull it up. I'm

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1:07:26want to give a shout out also to Keat.

1:07:30Keat is a peer-to-peer

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1:07:35free. Go to keat.io/simply.

1:07:38What do I mean by peer-to-peer

1:07:39communication? Even with Signal, which

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1:07:46works is you send a message, it goes to

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1:07:51your phone. So, there's an intermediary,

1:07:54and those intermediaries are usually the

1:07:56ones that get co-opted. With Keat, it

1:07:58fundamentally works different. It's

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1:08:03send a message, it goes straight to the

1:08:05person who you're sending a message to.

1:08:08Start private chats and calls with Keat

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1:08:19to get started. All right, everybody.

1:08:21That was today's show. If you guys

1:08:23enjoyed today's show, you know what to

1:08:24do. Smash that like button. Consider

1:08:26subscribing to Simply Bitcoin. And get

1:08:29your tickets to the Sovereign Summit

1:08:32February 4th through the 7th, 2027 in

1:08:36Miami Beach, Florida at the beautiful,

1:08:38beautiful Fountain Blue. Get your

1:08:41tickets before the prices increases. All

1:08:43right, everybody. We'll see you tomorrow

1:08:45for a brand new episode of Simply

1:08:47Bitcoin Live.

1:08:49>> This episode of Simply Bitcoin Live was

1:08:51brought to you by Letin. Don't sell your

1:08:53Bitcoin. Get a Bitcoin back loan at

1:08:55letin.io. IO.