Free YouTube Transcribe

Video transcript

Love is a skill, not a feeling | Alain de Botton: Full Interview

Big Think · 10,164 words · 47 min read

Want to search this transcript, jump the video from any line, or download it as TXT, SRT, or VTT?

Open in the transcript tool

Full transcript

0:00My name is Alain de Botton. I'm a philosopher, psychotherapist and founder of the School of

0:05Life. Chapter 1 - Our Destructive Romantic Culture We know in theory that love matters a lot. It's in

0:17every pop song, it's the center of most religions. We sometimes lose sight of what that word actually

0:25means. It's really about connection. And it is one of the most beautiful and one of the most

0:30complicated of all phenomena. Even though we think we've been around on this planet for a long time

0:36trying to figure things out, I'd say we were still at the dawn collectively of making sense of this

0:42phenomenon we call love. And it's no surprise that most people will go to their deathbeds thinking,

0:50not quite sure I figured that side of life out. At least many of us will still be grappling with

0:57some of the complexities of love by the time time runs out on us. The most central kind of

1:03love that people are obsessed about, concerned about, is romantic love. That is the intimate

1:10connection between two human beings who have a sexual contact. It's worth saying that there are

1:16other forms of love. We can love our children, we can love animals, we can love ideas, we can

1:24love tables, chairs, clouds, all sorts of things. We are capable of many forms of love, but I'd say

1:30that when people sing about love and when they cry about love, it tends to be the love of one very

1:38special person we tend to call our soulmate, our partner. It used to be the case that when people

1:44found partners, they would do so according to fairly pragmatic considerations. In most nations

1:50and most parts of the world, for most of history, couples were formed not by the individuals

1:56themselves, but by the wider society, families, the village, the court. There were, if you like,

2:03dynastic marriages. You would get together with somebody because they had a plow and you had an

2:09ox and it seemed like a good match, or you were the Duke of Brabant and they were the Princess

2:14of Naples and that was seen as a wonderful union. So you got together for reasons that were nothing

2:21to do with emotional compatibility. There were a lot of tears, there was sadness, there was

2:26loneliness, but it didn't seem to matter because relationships were seen to be about something

2:31else. There was then a momentous change that occurs in, towards the end of the 18th century,

2:38starting in Britain, France, Germany, parts of Italy, a revolution in feeling that we now know

2:46as romanticism. And one of the central tenets of romanticism is that each individual should

2:52be left to decide on their partner by their own, the movements of their own heart. They

2:58should be left to decide for themselves. It's a beautiful idea, it's a very liberating idea,

3:05it should make a lot of sense. And we have been in the romantic age now for, you know, 200 years,

3:13perhaps shorter, perhaps a little longer, that kind of time period. And let's put it plainly,

3:18it's been a disaster. We're not any appreciably happier now in a romantic culture than we were

3:27in a dynastic culture, where marriages were made for dynastic reasons. Why? Because we have failed

3:34collectively to focus with enough intent on the difficulties that couples will have when they

3:40choose each other according to the movements of their own heart. Look, I think a really

3:45key prejudice of the romantic worldview is that if love is working well, it should be following

3:54instinct. There's been an enormous veneration, it must be worship of instinct. Love is described as

4:00a special feeling, not an asset of ideas, not a sense of rationally observable principles,

4:05but a feeling. You either have the feeling or you don't. You must be guided by your feeling.

4:10There's even a prejudice against language. You know, true lovers shouldn't talk too much. They

4:14should just feel the flattering of their own hearts. That's why music has a huge prestige,

4:20higher than philosophy. When we're in love, we don't want to read philosophical tracks,

4:24we want to hear love songs. That is to do with our sense that emotion should be guiding us,

4:30not reason. Reason is the enemy in the romantic worldview of truly happy relationships. If we

4:37follow reason, that's cold, it may be calculating, it's unromantic. And, you know, there are so many

4:44things that are considered unromantic. And I would love to train our audience. But every

4:50time something seems unromantic, question it. Is it truly unromantic if we define romanticism as

4:58the pursuit of a workable relationship? On that basis, is it unromantic to talk about money?

5:04Is it unromantic to think long and hard about childhood patterns of psychological

5:10development? Is it anti-romantic to spend a lot of time thinking about families and friends and

5:18compatibility at that level? All these things, in my view, belong to a truly adequate way of

5:24surveying whether a couple should be together. But I'm also aware that nowadays these things

5:28are considered very unromantic. To live in a romantic culture means to live in a culture that

5:35has a set of ideas about how good couples should form. They should be formed by instinct, that

5:40everybody has a soulmate, that you'll recognise your soulmate by a special, flattery feeling,

5:45that you shouldn't be asked to account for that feeling. You should simply go for it and marry in

5:50Vegas in two weeks if that's what seizes you. And that you should be able to communicate deeply with

5:57your partner without using language. Through that special medium of the heart, through the silence.

6:02Also that you shouldn't criticise your partner, that true partners should love each other for who

6:09they really are. Which means no desire to grow or change. You just accept someone. Couples in

6:16romantic culture will sometimes complain, "You're trying to change me." And this is seen as really

6:22offensive. It's like, "What? You complain to your friends. My partner's trying to change me." "Oh,

6:27what an awful person. It must be awful. You must get out immediately." If you went to an ancient

6:33Greek, if you went to Athens in 400 BC, and you said to an ancient Greek, "What is love? And where

6:40is the role of criticism?" They would say, "Love is a process of education. It's the education of

6:46emotion." And lovers should of course be able to pick each other up for things that they don't spot

6:53in one another. The whole process should be trying to develop into the best version of themselves,

6:58rather than simply staying stuck in an admiration for who they are today. The whole process should

7:04be dynamic. Become who you could be, not worship who you happen to be right now. All of this sounds

7:10very strange in romantic culture, which is why relationships are so difficult in our time. Let's

7:18remember that a person's life satisfaction is determined by up to around 70% by the

7:27quality of their personal relationships. A Martian hearing that statistic, visiting planet Earth,

7:33would think, "Well, clearly Earthlings, given the enormous role of love, will be spending 70%

7:38of their money and 70% of their educational time working out how on Earth this business

7:42of love works. Is that true?" We spend hardly any time rationally thinking about it. None of

7:49us are made to sit through classes in attachment theory, classes in apology, classes in listening,

7:55classes in communication. No, you know, physics is important, geography is important, don't get

8:00me wrong. But is there no time for this, given its role in our lives? Do we really want to leave this

8:06to chance? And the answer is yes. And why? Because we live in a romantic culture that sees something

8:12adverse in planning and thinking and reflecting too hard on the business of love. It's very

8:20deleterious and it's been a serious problem for humanity. One of the most powerful disseminators

8:25of romantic culture is art. And by art I mean all the leading artistic media. Film, definitely. You

8:33know, if you were learning about love from films, you would be very confused. And that's why many

8:38of us are confused, because films, and I include that television shows and other narrative forms,

8:44these things are hugely misleading. They simply do not show what a real relationship is like. I mean,

8:52probably you can count on one hand that the number of films that have accurately shown love,

8:58I think one of the most accurate representations of love is Richard Linklater's Before Trilogy,

9:02which ended up with Before Midnight. It's a wonderful reckoning really with the real

9:07complexities of love. But you know, most films are not that. Most films are blithe, are superficial,

9:14are not modest enough in showing us what's really going on between couples. It's also

9:18intimidated through music. And music constantly gives us little miniature stories about how love

9:25works. And you know, the music is terrific, but it's not accurate to what's going on. And

9:30it presses the wrong buttons. Poetry, no one really reads poetry nowadays. If they did,

9:36the problem exists in poetry too. So we have so much media around, and yet we're still so

9:43much strangers to ourselves. I would say that the single greatest, most misleading disseminator of

9:48ideas on love is culture and art. The problem is very heavily located there. Chapter 2 - Lessons on

10:00Love from Psychotherapy I think we need to split history into phases. The phase of the dynastic

10:07relationship where people would get together for dynastic and financial and family reasons.

10:13That ended. That's behind us. Then we moved into the Romantic Age, and that caused a lot

10:18of problems and it lasted 250 years or so. We need to draw a line under that. We need to move

10:23towards something that I call the therapeutic age. The age of the therapeutic relationship. What on

10:30earth is a therapeutic relationship? Let me try and explain. A therapeutic relationship begins

10:37with the insights of psychotherapy. Psychotherapy has been with us for 120 years or so. It is the

10:44most sophisticated understanding of how human beings function emotionally. It's based on the

10:50insights of Sigmund Freud and all those who come after him. It is not going away. Some people say,

10:56"Oh, that's... isn't that old hat? Wasn't Freud proved wrong?" Sorry, no, he wasn't. I mean,

11:02of course, many, many areas of Freudian thought are wrong, but the fundamental insight that we

11:06have and unconscious, that how we love as adults was shaped by our childhoods, that there are

11:11defences that we put in place to protect ourselves as children that cause difficulties for us as

11:16adults. This is indisputably true. And that's not going anywhere. All of us are the result of a

11:23very slow and long process of emotional education that took place between the ages of zero and ten.

11:30This is extremely hard to perceive. Most of us are like, "I never went to an emotional education

11:36school. I just grew up, you know, my parents lived in Idaho or Milton Keynes or Frankfurt

11:40or Yokohama." There's no sense that we've learned anything in particular. But my goodness, we have.

11:47All of us reach adulthood having learned very complicated languages of love and relationships.

11:54Languages that tell us whether a human being can be trusted, whether we are worth something,

11:59whether communication is good, what happens when somebody is angry, what happens when we are shy,

12:04what happens when we sulk, how do we tell someone something important? All of these things will have

12:09been imbibed in us. Let me give you a metaphor. Very few of us, I'd say none of us, remember

12:15what it was like to learn language, to learn to speak. And yet, most of us know how to speak.

12:22But it went in invisibly. While we were in the kitchen drawing butter cups or in the garden doing

12:27handstands, all of us will have learned incredibly complex patterns of language, of grammar. We have

12:34learned about the pluperfect. We have learned about the subjunctive without even knowing such

12:38things exist. We have learned tens of thousands of words and all sorts of ways of expressing

12:43ourselves without knowing a thing. I want to say that a similar process goes on at the level of

12:49emotional language. In the same ways we learn a grammatical language, we learn an emotional

12:54language. As I say, a language about trust, about kindness, about communication, about self-worth,

13:00about dialogue, etc. All these things that we take with us into adulthood, we learned,

13:06and we learned from one place in particular, our families of origin, our mother and our father, or

13:13whoever our caregivers happen to be. These people are immensely, immensely important in shaping our

13:20emotional grammar. In the same way as they shaped our linguistic grammar, I mean anyone who's had a

13:26parent with a regional accent of one kind or another will know that that sticks. You will

13:31pick up that regional accent from your parents and you will, in my stick with you, all of your life.

13:35Same thing goes on with, as it were, the regional accents of emotional intelligence. You may speak

13:41a regional accent where every man is extremely frightening, or every woman has a tendency towards

13:47alcoholism, or everyone who is kind is also slightly sadistic, or everyone who you depend

13:53on is also depressed. Now these are all very, very difficult languages to have been exposed to and to

13:59pick up on. Many of us, sadly, have come through childhood with suboptimal language acquisition,

14:06emotional acquisition, if you like, and we take that into adulthood unconsciously. We have no

14:12clue where we've come from, and because we don't know where we've come from, we don't know how to

14:17plot a sensible course. And I'm going to mention something very important, which is attachment

14:22theory. One of the most useful tools for working out why relationships work and why they don't was

14:29formulated by two researchers of near-genus, John Bowlby and Mary Ainsworth, two researchers working

14:35in the United Kingdom in the 1950s. They had been very marked by a phenomenon that took place in

14:42the 40s during the Second World War. In the Second World War, huge numbers of children were separated

14:48from their parents at a young age and were sent to families outside London to escape the German

14:54bombing of British cities. What researchers soon realized was that this was a catastrophe for the

15:01children. The children began to exhibit extremely distressed behavior. They would wet the bed, they

15:07would get very angry, they would not be able to eat. They would be in states of almost cataclysmic

15:13meltdown. Why was this? Materially, they were well looked after. Psychologically, emotionally,

15:19they were bereft. And researchers, this is one of the most moving stories in the history of

15:24the Second World War, researchers realized that if this carried on, this would do more damage for the

15:32next generation than any number of war dead, that the risks of German bombs were actually smaller

15:40than the risks of ruptured emotional attachment. And on that basis, these psychological researchers

15:46wrote to the Ministry of Defence and the Home Office and got the children transferred back into

15:52their homes in the cities of the United Kingdom. And thereby a great tragedy was averted. So that

15:59after the height of the crisis, children were returned to their birth families and looked after

16:04again by their closest figures of attachment. Why are we talking about this? Because this was the

16:09birth of attachment theory. From watching how children were around their close caregivers in

16:15childhood, it was discovered that all of us are, in a sense, tethered to a story that we

16:23first have in childhood around our caregivers. And the researchers in attachment theory began

16:29to divide human beings into categories, highlighting their characteristic ways

16:35of behaving around relationships. To give you a few of the categories, they identified something

16:41that we now know as avoidant attachment. Avoidant attachment is a way of relating to

16:48a troublesome and troubling caregiver who in some ways lets you down. And by the way, caregivers,

16:55it's estimated let down around 50% of children. So around half of the population of any nation

17:03you care to mention has got children wandering around with attachment wounds. It's an important

17:08statistic to bear in mind when you go on a date. You know, 50% chance you've got somebody with an

17:14attachment wound. That's not the end of the story. We can work with attachment wounds,

17:18but we need to know that those attachment wounds are there. That's how we're going to try and solve

17:23the problem by knowing that the problem is there. An avoidantly attached person is somebody who

17:28responds to the insecurities in their relationship with their caregiver by essentially moving away,

17:34by pushing away intimacy. The classic sentence that an avoidantly attached person will say

17:40to their partner after a few beautiful weeks, a few mini breaks, a few lovely times, they'll go,

17:46"This is feeling a bit too intense," and then they will withdraw in some way. They'll start

17:51causing a problem. They'll say, "Oh, I need to spend a weekend with my friends or my mother

17:56really wants to see me." They'll pull away from a relationship because it's getting too intense. And

18:01really what they mean is, "I'm so afraid of love, and the way that I deal with my fear of love is

18:08to pull away." So that is avoidant attachment, and we see it all over the place. Some of your viewers

18:14will be avoidantly attached. Some of your viewers will have recognized this with a partner that they

18:20had. It's not that the avoidantly attached person doesn't want love. They want love. They're just

18:25terrified of it. Why are they terrified of it? Because it didn't go well for them in childhood.

18:32And this is something that we need to really keep in mind. We've got a culture that thinks that

18:36everybody's looking for love. They're not. They're ostensibly looking for love, but they're just as

18:43busy pushing love away when it comes, running away from it, and making sure it doesn't succeed. Why?

18:50Because love is a threat. If you have grown up in an environment where love was not possible, where

18:57relationships between caregivers and children were not safe, you will have defended yourself

19:03against the risks of disappointment. You will have insulated yourself. And then when love comes your

19:09way in adulthood, what you will do against your knowledge, against your conscious knowledge,

19:14is make sure that love does not succeed. You will sabotage your own chances of a successful

19:21relationship. Let me give you a metaphor. Imagine that you've grown up in a prison camp. You

19:26were never fed, or the diet was very meager. You didn't have much food. And then suddenly, one day,

19:33the prison gates are opened, and you get to go to a banquet, and you get to eat anything you

19:38like. And what might be the response? Panic. You might make yourself sick. You might try and eat

19:44the food. You might even kill you, or threaten to kill you, because why? You cannot metabolize

19:50the goodness on offer, because you have learned to function with an emotionally restricted diet,

19:58an emotionally restricted diet where you've made do with very little. And so when there's a lot

20:06suddenly on offer, you panic, and you think this is too intense. You think that somebody who has

20:12been going with almost no food will think it's far too intense to eat a rich chocolate cake.

20:17And sometimes healthy love is like a rich chocolate cake, which we cannot bear. And

20:23some of your viewers will know the phenomenon whereby you offer somebody love. You love them,

20:29you feel that you want to give them a good life, you want to be a good partner to them,

20:33and they sort of accept it, and then suddenly they run away. And if there's a dynamite under it,

20:38this is a very common occurrence. What's going on? It's not that it's too bad,

20:43it's too good. And for some of us who had to get used to very poor relationships, the greatest

20:49threat is not a bad relationship. That's fine. It's a good relationship. And you get patterns,

20:55horrific patterns, where people have had an unstable and violent father, let's say, uncaring

21:03and absent mother, and you think that these people are going to get to adulthood, and they're really

21:09going to make it up for themselves. They're going to find the love they yearn for, and they're going

21:13to make it work. And what happens to them? Maybe a nice lover comes along. Someone kind offers them a

21:20home, as it were, an emotional home. And maybe at the beginning they can bear it. It's easier at the

21:28beginning. But then the problem starts setting in when it really becomes clear that love may work.

21:35That's when the traumatised attachment lover gets their sticks of dynamite out and starts

21:41to blow the foundations of the house up so that they can return to the suffering that feels more

21:47familiar. What you need to understand is that in love we don't look for what will make us happy.

21:53Absolutely not. We look for what feels familiar. For some people, happiness and familiarity are

22:00one. But for many of us, they are not. For many of us, what is most familiar is a sense of not being

22:07loved properly, a sense of not being sure where we stand, a sense that someone may threaten us,

22:12a sense that someone may abandon us. That is our true home. And if that's our true home, we will

22:19be guided with a kind of honing instinct to refine that, which is why you find again and again that

22:26the children of alcoholics do not head for sober partners. They head for people who are struggling

22:32with alcohol. Why the offspring of violent parents do not head for calm and kind partners. They head

22:39for people who are struggling with their temper. Now, what do we do about this? One optimistic

22:46story is to be found in the work of Sigmund Freud, who in many ways everything returns to him. He

22:52observed something which he called the repetition compulsion. He observed that human beings are not

22:57guided by a search for pleasure. They are guided by a search to repeat patterns, a repetition

23:03compulsion often of pain. And he proposed an ingenious and I think optimistic answer to this.

23:10He argued that what many of us are doing when we repeat traumatic experiences, for example,

23:16getting back together with a violent partner or an alcoholic partner, what we're really doing

23:21there is not simply suffering at infinite for no reason. What we're trying to do is to master a

23:28challenge that we couldn't master in childhood and we're trying to master it with the resources of

23:33adulthood. In other words, we're trying to get the alcoholic partner to stop drinking in a way that

23:38we couldn't when we were children. We're trying to get the distance emotionally and communicative

23:44partner to start to talk in the way that our mother or father didn't. We're trying to make

23:49it up in the present. And Freud realized that for many of us we wouldn't find the kind of excitement

23:56that we need until we locate a partner who does suggest that they suffer from the very problem

24:02that our crucial caregiver suffered from. Until we find a little bit of an echo of the original

24:06suffering. But the optimistic story is perhaps we can work with them in the relationship to heal

24:13the pain. It's a very optimistic story. It works sometimes and sometimes we may need to cut our

24:18losses. You know, love is not always about keeping going. Love is also sometimes about knowing that

24:24you are in a pattern and that pattern is driving you to destruction. And when that happens,

24:29it's also important to save, to know how to save yourself from shore destruction. Chapter 3 - The

24:38Playbook for a Successful Relationship First of all, the idea of a playbook sounds strange. The

24:43idea of a playbook that you need to create to get in a relationship sounds really odd. You think,

24:49I don't need a playbook. I just need to head on in there, get a dating app and off I go and a

24:53nice new pair of clothes. But isn't it interesting and wouldn't it be lovely to have a playbook that

24:59would be trying to guide you to acquire the knowledge that you need for love? So the idea

25:06that love is a skill rather than an emotion is a strange one, but I think an absolutely essential

25:12one in the world view that I'm positing. You know, if somebody said, I'm going to climb Mount Everest

25:17or K2, you would say, OK, how have you prepared for this? And you'd be expecting them to show up

25:23with ropes, with training programs, with oxygen, with specially prepared packs of food. You can get

25:29the metaphor. We walk into the mountain of love without sufficient preparation and equipment. And

25:36then we're surprised that we routinely tumble off the mountain and we blame the other person. We say

25:42we didn't match the right person. We haven't found our person. We go back on the dating app and we go

25:48ever further to try and find the right person. Don't get me wrong. Dating apps have their role.

25:53Sometimes we need to scan and see who's out there and find a person who halfway meets us where we

25:59want to be. But once you've found a more or less suitable person, that's when the work begins.

26:05And the work is to turn a stranger into somebody that you can understand and who

26:10can understand you without bottling it, without panicking, without throwing them in the bin,

26:15without saying we can't work this out if after five weeks in a pleasant mini break in Copenhagen

26:21we suddenly have a conflict. No, the point is you need to stay where you are and try and figure it

26:26out. But most people give up too soon. They say we can't possibly do this. And they run for the

26:31hills, go back on the dating app and find the next person with whom they will then try out an

26:36equally unfulfilling attempt to match their heart with strangers. What we need to do is to start to

26:42create right people rather than search for them. And what does that mean to create a right person?

26:48It means to work on yourself psychologically and therapeutically so that you understand your script

26:54from childhood and do not simply play it out onto innocent person after innocent person, that you

27:00take responsibility for the problems that you are bringing into a relationship. At the School

27:06of Life which I founded, an institution that is dedicated to emotional growth and development,

27:11we tell our people that when they honour date with somebody, among the first questions is to

27:16ask people playfully, "How are you crazy?" What does that mean? How are you crazy? Why

27:20is everybody crazy? They're not necessarily crazy. Well, all of us have stuff that we need

27:25to be on top of. And if your person at dinner says to you, "Yeah, I get the question. Yeah,

27:30I've got my crazy. And my crazy is this. My crazy is that. My father, my mother." This is turning

27:36out to be a safe person. If the person goes, "How do you mean I can't possibly answer that question?

27:41That's rude. You think I'm not right or imperfect. Run for the hills. Drop it right there and then."

27:47I'm exaggerating, but this is probably not a person you should be hanging out with because

27:51none of us need or can have perfect partners. But what we can have and must search for and must try

27:58to become is people who know enough about their patterns to be able to warn their prospective

28:06partners of what's going on and take averting action. The beginning of therapeutic relationships

28:12is to know that two people, when entering a couple, are not entering without a lot of history.

28:21It is essential that couples learn as much as possible about that history so that they are

28:28ready for the challenges and perplexities of love. A therapeutic relationship requires that

28:33each partner get on top of their dynamics, that date back to childhood, and are able to discuss

28:40them with relative grace, patience, and insight with their partner so that when problems arise and

28:47they will, they can adopt a therapeutic language. It is therapeutic to say, for example, when there

28:54is a conflict, "I hear your point of view. It may not be mine, but I hear that it's yours." It

29:01is not therapeutic to say, "You're wrong. You're an idiot, and you're just like your mother." Or,

29:06indeed, like your father. This is not therapeutic. I'm kidding, but I'm making a very serious point.

29:11Indeed, we do not tend to talk to each other in therapeutically informed language. We shout,

29:16we scream, we blame, we shape-shift, we don't take responsibility. We do all sorts of things

29:22that doom us in relationships. Then we stand back and we say, "We're surprised. We are a

29:27society that is obsessed with finding the right person without pausing to think, 'How do I become

29:34the right person? How do I work on myself?' Understanding that cannot be done simply,

29:39and this is paradoxical, by being on your own. This is another unbelievable mystery. You can't

29:45understand yourself just by being with yourself. You need other people. Why is that? It's like, why

29:52do you need a mirror to see the back of your head? Because we don't have eyes there. We need someone

29:57to help us to see the things that are really hard for us to see. And psychotherapy gives us

30:03a forum in which we can come, tell the therapist about what's going on in our lives, explain what

30:10happened last Monday, explain what happened when we took that trip to New York or Buffalo, wherever

30:16it is, what happened, and then slowly pattern recognition sets in. The therapist is able to go,

30:22"It's funny. In that last relationship you did this, this new relationship you're doing that,

30:27and you mentioned that your parent did something that sounds kind of similar." So I wonder what's

30:33going on, and then slowly insight comes. We start to put the pieces together. We think, "I'm up to

30:38something. I'm doing something." And that way is liberation. We can start to break the unconscious

30:44stories that we're living. Psychotherapy works with this concept known as "defences" or "defense

30:50mechanisms." In other words, these are tools that our minds adopt to try and shield themselves from

30:57accurate knowledge of their own workings. It's going to sound really odd, like, why don't we

31:01just embrace self-knowledge with open arms? Why do we need to run away from it? The answer is that

31:07knowledge of ourselves is frightening. It's really awful to have to learn certain things. It may make

31:14us very anxious. It may make us so sorrowful. It may panic us, and so we push away unwelcome

31:22information. I think that we still perhaps can't quite bear how complicated we are. You know,

31:28we're very squeamish creatures. We don't like to sit with ourselves. We don't like to sit with our

31:33emotions. Self-knowledge remains an enormously elusive goal. You know, I think it is the most

31:40important goal of life. To understand oneself is literally the meaning of life. The ancient Greeks

31:48knew this, "Know thyself" was the most important command in ancient Greek culture and philosophy.

31:53"Know thyself" - the most important thing you could do. If you said nowadays, you know,

31:58in a conversation with friends or colleagues, "What's your goal? Where are you trying to get

32:02to next year? What are you trying to do?" You know, say, "Know thyself." People would go,

32:06"That's a strange person there. We don't know about this person." It's not an acceptable goal.

32:13We know that it's good to make money. We know that it's good to travel to foreign countries, to learn

32:18how to fry garlic and to learn salsa. It's not particularly esteemed to know yourself. And that's

32:26why we wander around strangers to ourselves and therefore enormously confusing. And let's put it

32:32frankly, dangerous to other people. Because a person who doesn't understand themselves,

32:36you know, if confronted with their behavior will go, "It wasn't me. I didn't do it." Or,

32:41"I can't think." Or, you know, "Ask me tomorrow." They can't account for themselves. They don't know

32:46why they do the stuff they do. They will simply, in a relationship, for example, bail out of a

32:51relationship going, "You know, it's getting too intense." And why? They don't know. They

32:55don't understand what they themselves are doing. Even though, you know, they may have spent five

33:00years learning, you know, Spanish. They may have taken an advanced degree in Japanese. They may be,

33:05you know, very active in all sorts of ways. They may have learned pottery. They may be

33:09holding down a great job in marketing something. But the point is they will not have learned the

33:15really true constituents of emotional functioning because they've been able to get away with it.

33:20And part of the playbook of becoming a better lover is to dial down your defense mechanisms,

33:26to observe them. A typical defense mechanism is to push responsibility onto other people, to say it's

33:32your fault. For example, someone tries to tell you something about yourself. Someone says, "I think

33:37that you, you know, you're a little bit this when that happens." You know, and rather than going,

33:42"Thank you. Let me think about that." You go, "Why are you being rude?" Or, "This is not a good time

33:47for me." Or, "I can't absorb this now." In other words, you push away information that might have

33:52helped you. Not because it's false, but because it's difficult to absorb. And that's often what

33:59happens to us. All of us, all of us are involved in defense mechanisms. All of us can't quite bear

34:05the full truth about ourselves. It helps us to go to psychotherapy. I know that, you know, AIs,

34:11you know, deliver some aspects of therapy. It can be good at points. The good thing about a real

34:17human being is that they are not guided just by you. They've got their own independent judgment.

34:22And also, you're in a relationship with them. And that relationship is part of what heals you,

34:27because the relationship with the therapist is a harbinger of the relationship that you can then

34:33take out into the world, a relationship of trust and mutual understanding. This is something that

34:38AIs not going to be able to replace anytime soon. So we need to understand ourselves. We

34:43need to understand the past. And then we need a certain spirit. One of the things that we need

34:47in that playbook of love is a good sense of humor. That could sound superfluous, like what on earth,

34:51you know, why do we need a sense of humor? Well, a sense of humor is a modesty about our capacity to

34:56understand anything. And if we can signal to our partners that, you know, we're a little stupid.

35:02We don't get it. We don't have all the answers. That is a wonderful emollient. It's a wonderful

35:08lubricant to love, because it just dials down the temperature. If your partner is able to say, "Ah,

35:15I may not have understood this. I may not be getting it. That's brilliant." And if they can

35:19make a little joke too, that's great. You know, if two people can learn to see each other as idiots,

35:24but lovable idiots, that's a beautiful moment in love. It could sound negative. It's not. It's not.

35:30It's the most generous thing you can do. We are two blind people helping each other to find a way

35:37forward. If that's the spirit in which we can enter love, that is a spirit of generosity, a

35:42spirit of mutual forgiveness. Too often we get on our high horses. This is the way it is. I know the

35:47answer. This is what I think. That is not a friend of love. So we need, if you like, a modesty,

35:54a humorous modesty. Let me give you another idea. Another thing that we need in order to make love

36:00work is a certain degree of pessimism. You know, optimism is the enemy of love. If we think that

36:07we will have a perfect love story, a love story with no ruffles in it, with no kinks in it, no,

36:14it's not going to happen. We need to accept that even a really good relationship has constant

36:20moments of crisis. And that's okay. The problem is not crisis. The problem is how do we repair

36:25crises? Can we repair them with forgiveness, with understanding, and most of all with curiosity? Can

36:31we get curious about why we had a bust up? Can we be searching for why our attachment patterns are

36:38not compatible? Can we get interested in why we're difficult to love, and that way will become easier

36:45to love? So pessimism is not an enemy of love. Knowing that there is no such thing as the right

36:52person actually helps you to find a good enough person. You know, a few years ago I wrote an

36:59essay that went viral. I wrote it for the New York Times. It was called "Why You Will Marry The Wrong

37:05Person". Why did that essay go viral? I think it went viral because people all feel... Sorry,

37:12let me correct that. Not all people, but many, many people feel that they have married the wrong

37:17person. And they panic about this and they feel so ashamed. So here's an essay in the New York

37:22Times that says, "Yeah, we're all going to marry the wrong person." And you know what? It's okay.

37:28You don't need to marry the right person. You need to marry a good enough person. You know,

37:33compatibility is not a precondition of love. Compatibility is the fruit of love. If we get

37:41together with someone and we find that there are differences, right? They have one kind

37:46of attachment style. We have another. They like golf. We like tennis. They like the curtains to

37:50be green. We like the curtains to be yellow. Whatever it is. Too often in modern romantic

37:55dating culture, the answer is get out. Just get out. Find someone else. Find someone better. And

38:00that's why all the technological tools are all about putting new people in front of you. Of

38:07course, sometimes you need to find new people. But as much as finding new people, what you need

38:11to do is to learn to live with the people who are in front of you. With the people that you've

38:15found. Many of us have already found a good enough partner. And yet we throw them in the bin because

38:21we are taught by romantic culture that we can always find a perfect person with whom it will

38:27click immediately. And this is such a destructive idea. If you think, you know what? The work starts

38:33here. The work starts when you have a problem. Then you roll up your sleeves and you think,

38:38OK, well, I know that I, you know, broadly think this person is a nice person. Now we're going to

38:42work at making sure that it can work. And so we're going to talk and we're going to take this problem

38:48apart. We're going to become like engineers who've got a malfunctioning machine. We're

38:52going to sort it out. This sounds unromantic, doesn't it? Imagine saying, in order to make

38:58my relationship work every evening, I've talked for an hour in really patient ways. You think,

39:03oh my God, go to Vegas, find someone easier. Well, good luck to you. Maybe you'll find that person.

39:09But for some of us, especially some of us who've come through difficult relationships, difficult

39:12relationships in our past, we may need to go and do that kind of excavation. Maybe that's fine.

39:18I think that a good enough person is someone who will engage with the business of working towards

39:26compatibility. That they won't assume that you are wrong just because there are problems. They

39:31will know how to repair crises. They will know how to be curious. They will know how to listen. They

39:37will know how to be patient. That is compatible with all sorts of problems. Sexual problems,

39:41relational problems, administrative problems. Doesn't matter. You can work through them. So the

39:46wrong person is someone who stonewalls, who always blames you, who blanks out, who says, it's not my

39:52responsibility, or, you know, it was easier with my ex and, you know, why are you so difficult,

39:58etc. These people are trouble because they are refusing the work of love. So it doesn't

40:03matter if you have many, many difficulties. That's okay. The problem is your attitude

40:07to the difficulties. And the solution is an attitude of indulgence, of curiosity,

40:13and of calm consideration of the flaws that unite us all. We are all mad monkeys. And so long as

40:20we've been kind towards the mad monkey and all of us, we'll be okay. One of the real problems, and,

40:26you know, there's simply no solution, but we need to accept that there's a real problem, is how long

40:31it takes to work out who we are as lovers, as people interested in relationships, who we are.

40:40It takes so long, and it takes especially long to try and change our patterns. You know, if we are

40:45somebody who sabotages relationships every time that love comes along, how long is that going to

40:50take to unwind this? Well, it takes insight, but then it takes, as it were, work, true work. And

40:56sometimes people go to therapy for six sessions or 12 sessions, and they go, "I haven't changed.

41:01Therapy doesn't work." And let's come back to my earlier example about language. Imagine that you

41:07decided middle age as an English speaker to pick up Korean or Finnish, and you went to six lessons,

41:14and you tried to learn Finnish and Korean. And by the end of six lessons, you could barely ask for,

41:18you know, barely say your own name or say hello. And then you blamed it on the whole process,

41:22and you said, "I'm not learning this language. It's rubbish." People would say, "You're being

41:26too impatient." And I think that some of the same holds true for rewiring our emotional

41:31language. We can't pick this up in six sessions of 50 minutes. It takes a long time. A pattern

41:36that was laid down over decades is going to take many, many years to figure it out. It's, I mean,

41:43believe me, it's bad news. I wish it weren't so. Can we do anything in the meantime? Yes, of course

41:49we can. We can be learning and walking. We don't have to pause and just sit by the roadside. We can

41:55be starting on the path of relationships. We can start from a relatively young age,

41:59but we need to be doing the work alongside, and we need to be able to at least do the first thing,

42:06which is to say, "I'm learning. I'm a learner." There's a real difference between someone who

42:11goes, "I know it all," and someone who knows that they are still learning. When Socrates, the

42:16ancient Greek philosopher, was asked why he was the wisest person in antiquity, he said, "Because

42:20I know what I don't know." In other words, that the birth of true wisdom is associated with the

42:26knowledge of your ignorance. I think that's the best way we can proceed also in relation to our

42:32love lives. There are lots of questions that we could learn to ask ourselves and our partners in

42:37order to try and find a better relationship. One of them is this. When I get close to you,

42:43how does that feel? To open up a window onto some of the complexities that occur when somebody gets

42:50close. If I love you, what part of you might worry? That's a good question. Does any part of

43:00you worry? Another really useful question is how do I respond when someone is trying to communicate

43:09something to me? Do I stonewall or do I accept? Am I able to pause and think the issue might

43:18be with me? Or do I always have to go, "I can't answer that. It's the other person. You're being

43:23unfair. You're putting me under pressure." What is your level of emotional dexterity? So that's

43:31a good question to be asking yourself as well. Also, one of the really good questions in any

43:37relationship is to say, "How have I annoyed you?" How have I frustrated you? You know,

43:42a lot of what happens between couples is there are things that are bubbling away beneath the surface

43:47that people can't find the courage to say. And because they can't say them, the problem doesn't

43:52improve. The problem gets worse. People can't have sex anymore. A lot of the reason why people can't

43:57have sex has got nothing to do with sex. It's to do with the fact they feel disconnected and angry

44:01and misunderstood. You can't have sex with someone who you feel misunderstood by or you feel furious

44:06with. What helps desire is trust. And the way to build up trust is to communicate, and particularly

44:13communicate, ruptures of trust. If you want to have good sex, don't get a candle, don't go to

44:18a hotel. Start to ask each other, "Have I annoyed you? Is there something I've done that you'd like

44:25to tell me?" And you say this patiently, not in the middle of the night when you're stressed or

44:30maybe you've drunk too much, but when you're calm, when there's a sense of lightness and forgiveness,

44:37use the right moment to ask the right question. We're living in a world where therapeutic language

44:42and insights have spread for the first time far outside the consulting room. There is mass

44:48adoption at a superficial level of therapeutic language. And the area where we find this most

44:54obviously is social media and in particular Instagram, which is enormous, it's an enormous

44:59force in the world, and it has brought up a generation, I'd say, to speak in pseudo or vaguely

45:07therapeutic terms. I don't mean that as an insult. Some of these insights have been fantastic.

45:11People are now able to talk about, let's say, attachment theory, the mention of an avoidant

45:17attachment theory or an anxious attachment theory in many circles now doesn't create the puzzlement

45:21that it was generating 15 years ago. 15 years ago, this was not common knowledge. That was

45:26still in the university, in textbooks and in the consulting room. Now it's out in the world. And

45:30the medium that has changed this, as I say, is social media. What's the problem? I'll tell you

45:35one of the problems. One of the problems is whose fault it is. The tone of a lot of social media

45:43posting blames the problem for the struggles in relationships, fairly and squarely on the partner,

45:49not on yourself. There is an obsession with finding borderline people, narcissistic people,

45:56avoidance, anxious people, out in the world. And of course they exist, but the tone is the problem.

46:02The tone says, get out. These are red flags and everybody that you're meeting, the reason why you

46:09haven't made a relationship work, is because these people are unbalanced psychologically. My answer

46:15is this. If you are looking to find a person with no problems at all, with no psychological

46:21disturbances, good luck to you. If you're looking to find somebody with no red flags, good luck to

46:26you. Everybody has red flags. That's part of what it means to be human. That's the story of Genesis.

46:32The story of Genesis is Adam and Eve had some red flags. That's what it is to be human being,

46:38is somebody with a red flag. So the problem is not the red flag, it's how you deal with it. And this

46:43is what I worry that therapeutic culture on social media doesn't train us to do. It doesn't train

46:48us for patience. It doesn't train us to think we might be the problem. It doesn't ask us to think

46:53what we've brought to the situation. It doesn't create an atmosphere of forgiveness. The reason

46:59is very simple, outrage sells. It's more fun, it feels more spirited. It's punchier to say that ex

47:08of yours, they're the avoidant, they're crazy, they're narcissistic. It sounds better and it

47:13leaves everybody happier. But long term, it's not the solution. Chapter 4. Overcoming status anxiety

47:24and loneliness. You know, we mustn't forget that one of the sources of love that is most important

47:30to us is not just interpersonal romantic love, but the love that you get from other people. Strangers

47:38dependent on your standing in the community, your status. You know, status is a really interesting

47:47feature of everybody's ambitions. You know, why do we work so hard? We work so hard,

47:52not just for material rewards. We work hard in order to gain the esteem, the respect, the regard

47:58of people whose good affections we rely on to feel good about ourselves. If you said to somebody,

48:05you've got a choice, either we'll give you $10 million a year, but every time anyone sees your

48:12face, they'll go, oh my God, I hate that person, they're awful. I despise that person. You could

48:17have that option, or we'll give you a minimum wage, absolute minimum, bare minimum to survive.

48:23But every time anyone sees you, they'll go, oh my God, that person is amazing, it's just great, etc.

48:29We know which one we'd pick. We know that we would pick the love and affection of the stranger and

48:35the respect and esteem of our community, way over simple material rewards. Now, in our culture, the

48:42reason why most of us work so hard and the reason why most of us are so interested in money has

48:46nothing to do with the money. It's just that money is the chief conduit towards the love and respect

48:52that we stand to gain from our communities. If you change the status system and what you get status

48:58for, you will change the incentive structure. There have been periods in history where the

49:02number one thing you needed to do in order to have a high status was to worship God really intently.

49:07And then if you're good at worshiping God, you'd be considered amazing. And then people did that

49:11in droves, and that was considered very, very serious. In other cultures, it was considered

49:15very serious to be a good hunter. So people became more and more good at hunting, and that was what

49:20you did. And that was the root to getting status. Nowadays, how do we know what the status system is

49:26based on? We know it because of a very simple question that any stranger will ask us within

49:31normally 30 seconds of meeting us. What do you do? And according to how you answer that question,

49:35people are either going to be really pleased to see you. "Oh, great! We must hang out." Or they'll

49:39leave you alone by the peanuts and they don't want to know you. We're living in a world of snobs. A

49:45snob is really anyone who takes a small part of you and comes to a global decision of what you're

49:50worth and how much love you're worth. And that is the reality, the brute reality of the way in which

49:57we live in society. We will be judged ruthlessly by our careers, by what is on our business card.

50:02And we will be given love, status love, not romantic love, but status love. Maybe romantic

50:08love too, that's another consideration. But generally status love according to how impressive

50:13we are in the field of careers. It's why we work so hard, it's why we're so panicked about careers,

50:19and it's why there's such despair when careers don't work out. We're losing not just materially,

50:24we're losing our sense of our good name in the eyes of society. It's very brutal. I think older

50:30societies, pre-modern societies, had some built-in safety valves to try and protect people from that

50:40unitary sense that what you are worth is what you do, that you are what you do. It's always

50:46been somewhere there in the system because we are material creatures, we do depend on material

50:50goods, so it's always been there as part of the mix. But other cultures have softened this in

50:55a way that ours no longer does. They've softened it in a number of ways. Firstly through religion,

51:00through the mass adoption of religion. And the interesting thing about religion is generally

51:04the gods that people have worshiped love people, not for what they do but for who they are. They

51:09look inside your soul. And that's a vital defence mechanism. You're giving unto Caesar what Caesar

51:15wants and the rest is up to God. And that gives you a sense of freedom. It's like, well, I may

51:21not be performing so well in my career, but I've got an alternative route to love and affection.

51:27That's a huge defence. The other thing that really protected people was isolation. You know,

51:34we are one of the first societies to be constantly surrounded. 24/7 by other people, we live in vast

51:40cities. Most of the world's population now lives in a city. That wasn't the case until, you know,

51:45a minute ago. This is very new. When you don't live in a city, what do you live surrounded

51:49by? A very important psychological tool called nature. Trees, rivers, forests, grasses, insects,

51:59animals. What on earth has these things got to do with love? Well, what they do is they break that

52:04unitary system where you are worth what another human being defines you as being worth. When

52:10you're surrounded by nature, you're no longer just defined by other humans. You get to live in a more

52:15expansive, a more liberated world where your value is, you know, up to wider forces and that lends

52:23a lot of oxygen and a lot of freedom that we've lost as we've moved towards urban societies and

52:28of course, as we've gone online. Okay, here's another pet idea of mine. You know, religion

52:34disappeared as the guiding force in people's lives around 100 years ago when Nietzsche famously said,

52:41"God is dead." He announced the death of God. Now, you might say, "Hang on a minute, there are lots

52:45and lots of believers." There are. Of course there are. Many societies are still defined by religion.

52:51However, one can propose that in key ways we are no longer living in religious societies. We

52:56are living in modern, secular societies that are based around romantic love, status performance,

53:03material goods, a denial of nature, a cutting off from the natural world, and a cutting off from

53:10any sense of human agency being limited. We believe in human agency being able to determine

53:16everything. Along with that comes a denial, of course, of our own mortality. How would we

53:21start to do something about that? Well, I think we need to look to religions for answers. Religions

53:26have worked it out. I think that we need to steal from religions and to institute in secular culture

53:34many of the maneuvers of the safety valves and genuine insights that religions were brilliant at

53:41delivering. For example, we need to break bread together. All religions bring people, strangers

53:47together to break bread from different communities in order to lessen suspicion. We need to get back

53:54to a tradition of communal dining and of breaking the barriers that separates strangers from one

54:01another. We need also to talk with intelligence and intent about love and about our capacity

54:08and possibility of loving better than we do, of reminding ourselves that we need to make an effort

54:14around love. Buddhism does this, Christianity does this. All the main religions emphasize not just

54:20that love is important, but that love is hard, and we need a little bit of that. Religions also,

54:27almost all of them, have created spaces that are separate from the spaces of commerce, spaces that

54:33are beautiful, spaces that are peaceful, spaces that bring people together to create a different

54:38kind of fellowship, one more guided by a spirit of friendship and kindness and vulnerability.

54:46We need to replace our temples and churches with secular buildings that aren't just going to be

54:50shopping malls and that aren't just going to be car showrooms, but the places that will bring

54:55people together, the most beautiful community centers imaginable still need to be built, and

55:00I'd love to see them built. We think we're alone in being alone, and we think there is shame that

55:06attends to admitting how alone we are. The root out of loneliness is to share your loneliness,

55:13is to dare to believe that the things you are most ashamed of cannot be, structurally they cannot be,

55:19things that exist in your heart alone, that they have to be things that despite the evidence,

55:25the surface evidence of other people's cheerfulness, probably exist in other people.

55:30Other people are also lonely, are also sad, also feel lost, also feel that they've messed up,

55:35also have a hard time in their relationships. The beginning of friendship begins with the

55:40capacity to be vulnerable and to admit to loss and sadness. We think that friendship

55:45is a mutual club for cheerfulness, it's not. True friendship begins with tears, with the

55:50ability to admit to sadness. This is why men in many ways have a harder time than women, forming

55:56deep friendships because men, there's still in many societies a real taboo around male tears.

56:03Men cannot admit to being sad and weak without feeling that they have lost their masculinity.

56:09Extremely unfortunate as a root to friendship because it means that your friendship will need

56:14to be based on posturing and on the recounting of triumph and success. Whereas in fact, of course,

56:20true friendship begins with the revelation of vulnerability and fragility. As ever with a

56:25problem, self-awareness and mutual awareness is the way through. Once we can see the pattern,

56:30we can break the pattern. Once we can see that we're living in a prison defined by a material,

56:36a material status system that many of us don't value, that we are doing this not because we

56:41want to, but because it exists, we can start to find alternatives. I'm not talking about throwing

56:46in your job. I'm talking about evaluating yourself and other people beyond your job.

56:52I'm talking about getting back in touch with nature. I'm talking about getting in touch with

56:56vulnerability and sharing that vulnerability. These are all tools and mechanisms that we can

57:00put in motion to escape an otherwise really oppressive and genuinely loveless environment

57:06in which we're forced to live and can't breathe very easily in. You could define love as the quest

57:13to overcome isolation and understand someone else and find understanding by someone else. It is the

57:22most noble and the most complicated of goals. If anyone can reach the end of their life and say,

57:28"I have loved. I've loved properly. I've understood and been understood. I've helped

57:32and been helped." This is a life well-lived. We don't need to achieve that much that is splendid

57:38in the material world or in the world of insight in the humanities, insight in the sciences. What

57:45we really ultimately need to do to make our time worthwhile is to have built a bridge to another

57:51human and to have opened our heart and have seen theirs with respect and humility and generosity.

57:56That truly ultimately is the definition of a good life. Want to support the channel?

58:06Join the Big Think members community where you get access to videos early, ad free. free.

More from Big Think

Recently added transcripts

Browse the whole transcript library

This transcript was generated from the captions YouTube publishes for this video. Get the transcript of any YouTube video atfreeyoutubetranscribe.com, free, unlimited, no sign-up.