The Power of Collective Leadership: Insights from Lance Little 🏆

0:00you were a born leader or is that

0:01something you had to learn step by step

0:03or a mix of it wow Kristoff that's a

0:05tough question out of the blocks um how

0:07did you go about that agile

0:08transformation today everybody speaks

0:10about I think it's important to to

0:13understand that rash as an organization

0:15I I we're over I think we're 127 years

0:18old now um and uh to so to last that

0:23long at at all generations of the

0:26organization over that time there has to

0:29have been shifts what is collective

0:31leadership for you how do you define

0:33that because it's it's a very

0:35interesting powerful term not sure I'd

0:37get a definition right I mean it's very

0:39simplistic level it's saying it's it's a

0:41move away from an old school

0:45hierarchical model that might put in in

0:48in my case you know Lance at the top of

0:50the ape pyramid hi this is Kristoff um

0:54and it's my great pleasure to welcome

0:56you all to the podcast learning from

0:59leaders and today we have a great leader

1:02here with us in herges wheel in the TX

1:05office it's Lance little Lance thank you

1:07so much for taking the time for being

1:09with us I know how extremely busy you

1:11are it's absolute pleasure Kristoff I'm

1:13looking forward to the conversation so

1:15yeah thanks for having me and we just

1:17met a couple of weeks ago in Singapore

1:18and you Shar with me your extraordinary

1:21leadership journey and your recent

1:22achievements in Collective leadership to

1:25introduce you here to our viewers you're

1:27obviously the managing director uh of

1:30Rush diagnostics in Asia Pacific um of

1:33course a part of the world which is

1:36moving so strongly forward in general

1:38but also in in your work um um almost

1:42half of the population in that region

1:44spanning from China Japan in the north

1:48all the way to India um they our largest

1:51nations in in the world in terms of

1:53population Pakistan and of course

1:55Australia and New Zealand where you are

1:57born so looking forward to that

2:00discussion and uh well you you hold

2:02responsible for more than 6,000 people

2:05now uh you are a great leader we will

2:07talk a little bit more about that in a

2:09couple of minutes now I was wondering um

2:12if we would now ask your parents was it

2:14obvious from the beginning from the

2:16early day the the small lands in in a

2:19school or at home that you you were a

2:21born leader or is that something you had

2:23to learn step by step or a mix of it wow

2:25Kristoff that's a tough question out of

2:27the blocks um I I would say no I my own

2:31perception I I I don't know what they

2:32would have said but um no I don't think

2:35so as as a as a child I would say I was

2:38just sort of vanilla if you like or or

2:41just go with the flow um I don't think

2:43there was anything particularly

2:46extraordinary uh about my journey I was

2:48very fortunate I grew up in an

2:50environment in New Zealand where you

2:52life is good um you know as a as a as a

2:55school boy you know school for example

2:57is something that's it's an inconvenient

2:59reality between you know fishing and

3:02playing sport so I think one of the

3:05things that that I would say about my my

3:08upbringing and the gift that perhaps my

3:11parents gave me is less about driving a

3:15journey through

3:17life um but more

3:20about never believing there were

3:24barriers and if I reflect on my career I

3:27think one that's that's one of the

3:29foundation elements that have sort of

3:31allowed me to do some very unusual

3:33things through through my uh through my

3:35life and and of course my career Journey

3:37which is sort of a bit of a foundation

3:39to the way I think and operate um but no

3:41I don't think that my parents saw

3:43leadership in me um maybe they did I'm

3:46not sure but but perhaps it did manifest

3:49start to manifest itself a little bit um

3:52on the sports field from from some

3:53coaches who who sort of saw something in

3:56me and and and gave me additional

3:58responsibility in the early years and

4:00obviously till today you're very

4:02sportive yes stayed with me yes well

4:05great thing your your parents passed on

4:06to you that I did that there's there are

4:08no limits and and you can really um kind

4:11of manifest your dreams that that's

4:13wonderful I wouldn't say that was an

4:15active articulation either but in in in

4:18reflection and retrospect on on on your

4:20life as you do as you get older you I

4:22realized that um the concept of barriers

4:25to doing things was never something that

4:28I thought about

4:30um to the extent that you know my early

4:32life as when I was still training in in

4:35Biochemistry we had a young family I was

4:38I I was 23 my daughter was born we

4:40needed a place to live um so we built a

4:43house now I was not a builder um but

4:46again this this perhaps naivity of uh

4:51not living with oh well I can't do that

4:54because that takes a certain skill set

4:55well no it's somebody can build houses

4:58why can't I sort of think um and I think

5:00that sort of manifested itself a lot

5:02through my career as well um you know

5:05perhaps being comfortable doing things

5:09that others may not yeah and then maybe

5:13that then if you think about that

5:16perhaps creates a leader somebody

5:19standing out perhaps from the group or

5:21taking a different pathway from the

5:23group that others may choose to follow

5:25um absolutely so yeah that's a sort of a

5:28retrospective um LS on it I would none

5:31of that was planned at the time or

5:33anything like that definitely already

5:34your story now has an influence on me

5:36and makes me think what were my

5:38limitations right you did not know that

5:40you were not able to build a house and

5:42and therefore you build it right and

5:44passing that on to the people you're

5:46responsible for is is definitely great

5:48and you have built something

5:50extraordinary now in Asia Pacific for R

5:52were there later on maybe important

5:54stepping stones for you oh without doubt

5:57yeah you know influences I I was very

6:00fortunate when I uh when I joined rash

6:03in 1995 so I've been with the company a

6:05long time and um you know I had a had a

6:10great general manager in in in by the

6:13name of gram Watt and he he's still a a

6:16good mate of mine and um uh and I still

6:18see Graham as a mentor but what he did

6:22which I've never forgotten the lesson is

6:25he gave me opportunities to expand my

6:27experience set so that when perhaps the

6:31next job came up or a particular moment

6:33in time when they asked me to go to

6:35Thailand as general manager

6:37um he'd been building me up so the Gap

6:40was manageable from the role I had then

6:42up to my first general management role

6:44and I've always in hindsight appreciated

6:47that opportunity that Graham gave to

6:50expand my experience set and and set me

6:53up for whatever the next thing may be

6:56and that's something that I encourage

6:57all of my leaders in the organization to

6:59do for teams also yeah um so yeah

7:02there's moments along the way and and

7:04people that have influenced for sure so

7:06from that child you once were uh to the

7:08leader you are today you evolved so fast

7:10and the world is also evolving so fast

7:12today many believe the world has never

7:14changed as fast as it does today and and

7:17there's the point to be made right back

7:20in 1920 the average lifespan of an

7:21organization was some whatever 67 years

7:25now we are down to 15 years uh It is

7:28believed that about 90% of all data ever

7:31created on this planet was created just

7:33in the last two years yes and yet maybe

7:36it would be fair to say probably the

7:38world will never ever change as slow as

7:39it is today true yeah and and I think

7:43Rush early on saw that coming that now

7:47uh even in the farma industry even in in

7:50in Diagnostics um the game is changing

7:53and and and you have engaged in an agile

7:54transformation very successfully right

7:57at the end of the day Rush was the

7:58company which created during the corona

8:00crisis the first Corona test I mean

8:03that's that's that's testimony to it um

8:05can you take us a little bit to that

8:07what led to that conclusion and how did

8:09you go about that agile transformation

8:11today everybody speaks about I think

8:13it's important to to understand that

8:15rash is an organization I I we're over I

8:18think we're 127 years old now um and uh

8:23to so to last that long at at all

8:27generations of the organization over

8:29that time time there has to have been

8:31shifts and a willingness to shift and

8:33change as a future Direction moves and

8:36um you're right I think um especially

8:40within Health Care uh there's a McKenzie

8:43study that talks about um in 1950 it

8:47took 50 years to double the amount of

8:50healthc care

8:51information today it's 72 days right so

8:55yes um you and and this is the world

8:57we're operating in I think the Edo

9:00transformation or or or the shift that

9:03we've taken over the last number of

9:04years across rash and particularly in

9:06rash Diagnostics has been one where we

9:09acknowledge that no longer can you be a

9:12static organization and if you want to

9:14change you you change the shape of the

9:17house to become a different shaped house

9:18but it's a house and it's static the

9:21evolution that we've been through is

9:22very much around Shifting the mindset to

9:25be able to create an organization that

9:28has structure and an operating model

9:31that is relevant for the moment but with

9:33the

9:34fluidity not chaos but with the fluidity

9:37to allow us to shift and move as this

9:40healthc care environment and indeed the

9:42world around us uh shifts and move so um

9:47we can we can look and see what's around

9:49the corner and and move towards that

9:51rather than wait until it sort of right

9:53here on our labs and and this is

9:56something we're still working through in

9:58all honesty uh

9:59and then with agile itself I think the

10:02way I view view it agile was a tool set

10:05and it's a tool set that's that took us

10:08a bit to work through um but it's now

10:10something that sits beside us and as we

10:12want to pick up these tools and utilize

10:14them um then that helps us to evolve in

10:17a

10:18day-to-day um leadership way um but also

10:22to deal with the challenges that the

10:23Health Care System uh needs us to deal

10:25with so um it's it's a little bit in the

10:28DNA of rash that we do keep evolving

10:31accepting the fact that that's not easy

10:33for people um we as human beings really

10:37don't like change very few of us do um

10:41and an organization is a collection of

10:43human beings so um but I think this this

10:48understanding over the last number of

10:49years within rash um as uh has really

10:53sort of embedded and helped us grow

10:56actually to to I think an organization

10:58that is well position for whatever will

11:01appear as we move around the next Bend

11:03in the road with TX I had the pleasure

11:05to work with leaders at R had the

11:08pleasure how we first met to work with

11:10you back in the day in Australia and um

11:13for me it is truly inspirational

11:15actually see um that level of

11:19um sincerity I think in in the way Ros

11:22goes about in that transformational

11:25Journey because as you're saying right

11:26everybody likes to talk about changing

11:28the organization but can I change yes um

11:33and how do I change my mindset and how

11:35do we change our culture and and I think

11:37that comes down to some basic human

11:39Elements which like I said before an

11:42organization is at it fundamentally a

11:45group of individuals so if we want to

11:48move and shift the thinking across an

11:49organization we have to move and shift

11:51our own thinking it can't be something

11:53that yes I think it's a great idea and

11:55you should go and do it no um we've got

11:58to start by looking in the mirror and I

12:01believe and my own learnings along the

12:03way we have to step away from um our own

12:07sort of self-developed ego that says

12:10I've been successful in all of the

12:12things I've done to get here and

12:14therefore I

12:15know what everybody else needs to do

12:18yeah well no you've got to be humble

12:20enough to look in the mirror and look

12:21back at yourself and go what is it that

12:24I need to do to become a better version

12:27of myself tomorrow than what I was

12:28yesterday

12:29I think that's where it really starts um

12:32and you know across an organization as

12:34large as rash that's not an easy thing

12:36to do and I would say we're all still on

12:38a journey myself included of course yeah

12:41and I mean that includes also um

12:44acknowledging that I wasn't perfect

12:47yesterday and and and in a world which

12:50is so competitive that's that's not easy

12:52we all want to project that image which

12:55is so perfect yes um now what I also

12:58find particularly interesting is that I

13:00think Rush has given enough freedom for

13:03different leaders to express their way

13:06of living our child in in in in their

13:09own unique style and way and you have

13:11taken it to a level which I think is

13:12also unique um in our recent discussion

13:16in Singapore you shared that you felt a

13:18couple of years ago that you need to

13:20change to what you would call Collective

13:22leadership you wanted to kind of really

13:24share your responsibility between I

13:26think almost 30 of your of your most

13:29senior leaders so what is collective

13:31leadership for you how do you define

13:33that because it's it's a very

13:36interesting powerful ter not sure I'd

13:38get a definition right I mean it's very

13:40simplistic level it's saying it's it's a

13:42move away from an old school

13:46hierarchical model that might put in in

13:49in my case you know Lance at the top of

13:51the ape pyramid and everybody else doing

13:54their their bit within it but but but

13:56I'm in in the command and control seat

13:59right and the way I described it to my

14:01team is is well no that that's not the

14:03case now actually what what we're going

14:05to do is is I'm stepping down from the

14:07top of the pyramid and I'm going to the

14:09bottom and we're chopping the top off

14:11the pyramid so it's not a peak anymore

14:13it's a flat top which means I'm exposing

14:16many more of my leaders to the Dynamics

14:19of the world so they can grow in other

14:21words I'm getting out of the way to

14:23allow them to

14:25grow um and you know should they fall

14:28off and I'm there to catch them and put

14:30them back so it's it's it's a it's a

14:32very very different Dynamic to an old

14:35school command and control yet I'm not

14:40absolved of that responsibility or that

14:42guardianship of the APAC Rush

14:46diagnostics business our 6,000 plus

14:49people um in the organization I still

14:52have all of the responsibility and the

14:54accountability for that yet the the

14:58collective leadership move means that I

15:01expect but I also allow many other

15:05leaders of my own leaders to take the

15:09Reigns and and move the train forward if

15:13you like um I I have to say that's not

15:16an easy personal shift for me it was a a

15:20growth process that that took me a

15:22couple of years to go through and I'm

15:23still working through it it's very

15:25courageous because I think in the more

15:28successful I would assume you are in

15:30that process there more likely it could

15:32be that people would find out well we

15:33can do without LS um and therefore we

15:36are doing very well um because they

15:39might not be noticing that you're

15:40actually holding their back which you

15:42constantly doing yes um did you

15:44experience that that these kind of

15:48traces of of of concerns both at my

15:51level and also with my immediate team as

15:53well because um at my own personal

15:57level you know we again I come back to

16:00what we talked about before about our

16:01ego drives us a lot and and I'm a very

16:04competitive individual yeah people who

16:06know me know me no know that I am very

16:08competitive and I like the challenge and

16:10I like the

16:11achievement

16:13um however what you're doing is you're

16:15actively stepping away from being the

16:17first person across the Finish Line the

16:19team might have propelled you there but

16:21no you're not going to be the first

16:22person across the Finish Line um others

16:25will be and you need to be comfortable

16:27as a leader to go go to take the the

16:32personal um value of that experience

16:36lying in the fact that that's fantastic

16:39to see

16:40others winning or succeeding or however

16:43you want to Define that um and maybe you

16:48had some contribution to it but it's not

16:51about being in in the front yeah but

16:54it's always about being there to support

16:56never ever it's not about absolving say

16:59you guys do what you need to do no not

17:02at all it's about establishing the guard

17:04rails and and making sure that everybody

17:07knows that you've got their back and

17:09you'll guide and help it's not about

17:11stepping away and letting the train run

17:13off on its own and then from an

17:15organizational perspective my own

17:16leaders I remember um when I started on

17:19this realized I had to shift my

17:21leadership style to allow others others

17:23to grow and and move into this

17:25Collective leadership frame it I wrote a

17:28letter to my team explaining this is the

17:30journey I think I need to go on so help

17:34me um and it was not easy and a lot of

17:38people struggled to see which Lance was

17:41going to turn up is it the Lance that

17:44will take on their problems and and be

17:46so-called Lance the fixer or is it Lance

17:50the shaper cuz they used to Lance the

17:51fixer and then they get Lou the shaper

17:53and they walk out

17:55going that's not what I

17:57wanted um

17:59um and that took a lot of time and I I

18:02had some great conversations feedback

18:04from from one of one of my uh one of my

18:06team in the moment actually and he came

18:08up to me in a coffee breakout at a

18:10meeting and he said to me ah I want the

18:12old LS back you know so that transition

18:15is is not necessarily an easy one um and

18:18you doubt yourself as a leader in those

18:21moments cuz you start to think well am I

18:24adding value here yeah yeah am I adding

18:27value here but now as I come through it

18:29and I really want to articulate make it

18:30really clear I'm still on this journey I

18:33haven't worked it all out at all but you

18:36do see others stepping into the space

18:38and growing because they have the space

18:41and the license and the support and I

18:43think that's magical you sat down you

18:45wrote the

18:46letter what what a beautiful situation

18:50um and I was

18:51wondering what brought you to that point

18:54that you're going

18:54to decide I'm changing my leadership

18:57style um I also know the direction of

19:01this change and I'm sitting down writing

19:03a letter was it to a coaching process

19:06was it something that you were

19:07encouraged by the organization how did

19:09that evolve in yourself a few things I

19:11would say it was a moment in time as

19:13well I had

19:15been been in the company for a long time

19:18and had a number of General management

19:19roles across different countries and

19:21then in 2012 became head of Asia

19:25Pacific and you know after doing that

19:27for a number of years you then start to

19:29wonder well um am I still adding value

19:33you know you you you you run a narrative

19:35and a model and a style and and I

19:38started thinking about I guess

19:41challenging myself on what value am I

19:44adding now um we've got many people who

19:47know how to drive a business who know

19:48how to how to deliver for our patients

19:50and our customers and am I just one more

19:53voice in the mix or is there a new space

19:56that will help the organization move

19:58forward and it was a lot about what you

20:00touched on at the very beginning the

20:02scope of the asia-pacific region we've

20:04got half the world's population roughly

20:07and so many you got millions of people

20:09who don't get access to health care so

20:11with that as the backdrop it then became

20:14well what can I

20:16do as a leader of Asia Pacific to make

20:19sure that the future for rash

20:21Diagnostics has a strong APAC

20:24environment and that was really what it

20:26was all about so um

20:29how can I make sure that I take whatever

20:30learning I've gained over the years and

20:33embed that in the

20:35system such that at some point in time

20:39hopefully not soon but at some point in

20:41time I'm going fishing yeah right and uh

20:44the system is strong the leaders in APAC

20:47the Next Generation we we have a

20:48philosophy within APAC um we we talk

20:51about plant trees we may never sit under

20:54so we're empowered to do something today

20:56that will not necessarily serve me today

20:59but will serve the the the system and

21:01the team at at a later date so was these

21:04sorts of elements along with some

21:07coaching from uh from Paul burn who I

21:09think you you know Paul and and

21:12triggering some thoughts and um I

21:14realized that for me to add value to the

21:18organization and step into a different

21:20level I had to change my narrative and

21:24my reason for for creating value that's

21:28fine fascinating and I believe one

21:30objective of collective leadership is to

21:32use also that that Collective wisdom

21:34right to really Empower everyone and and

21:36I firmly believe that that what really

21:38creates magic in a in a team is is that

21:41that energy that Consciousness which is

21:44created um yes and in one way or the

21:47other I think the the whole is more than

21:50than the the sum of the parts right in

21:52both in good or the bad way I think we

21:54all have experienced situations where we

21:56enter a room people don't want us to

21:57feel what was going going on but we

21:59sense there was a conflict or we enter

22:01in into a room and we sense what a great

22:04energy I want to stay there I want to be

22:06part of that right

22:08um now if let's say our viewers and

22:14listeners feel inspired I'm quite sure

22:16they are and they would like to bring

22:18that Collective leadership into their

22:19teams they will sit down they will write

22:22the

22:23letter and what step careful what step

22:26two and three I mean because it's a it's

22:28a process which involves as you said

22:30changing the mindset people who have

22:32been rewarded for a certain type of

22:34behavior of year after year they have

22:36been promoted for leading in a certain

22:38way and now they receive a letter uh

22:41which informs them I'm going to as a

22:43lance I'm going to lead differently and

22:46probably I'm going to expect you also to

22:47lead differently how did you take it

22:49Forward again Christopher I'm be very

22:51honest I'm not saying it was all planned

22:53right um you know uh hindsight is 2020

22:56as we say I think there was a few things

22:58things that we had done that

23:01enabled what we have today to work

23:06um I

23:09think one of the things is

23:12organizations naturally tend to be very

23:14comfortable in talking about the

23:17mechanics of a business or or whatever

23:19it is it's it's the usual you know

23:21business plans marketing plans targets

23:25execution one half of the whole

23:29I think for me when I think about

23:31leadership in a general sense I break it

23:33very simply down by definition a leader

23:36is somebody who's a going in a direction

23:39and B by definition has people following

23:44them if there's no one following they're

23:46not a leader they're an individual

23:48walking down down a pathway so with that

23:51in mind I've always been a big believer

23:53for my own self as GE if I've got a

23:55leader are they going in a direction

23:57that that resonates with me that I want

24:00to be part

24:01of and are they a

24:04person who I'm

24:08comfortable with or I feel I can learn

24:10from or they have a value set I can

24:11connect with so for us we went through

24:14um a process of creating what we call um

24:18Apex Spirit which is a a set of

24:20characteristics that define us right

24:22across that big asia-pacific region and

24:25that anchors us today even still we did

24:27this many years ago and it's really in

24:28our DNA of the way we think but what it

24:31did do was it opened up the opportunity

24:33to have the other half of the

24:34conversation which is what I call the

24:36human piece and that's not to be

24:39personal or get into people's business

24:41or or or or anything like that but it is

24:43an understanding that the people in our

24:45organization are a complete package and

24:48their delivery or the roles they're

24:50responsible for in the workplace is is

24:53intimately connected with themselves as

24:56a whole so I think this this is one

24:58thing that then allows us to build

25:01trust so I've had a team that's that's

25:04that's regularly being

25:07reshaped but in a in a way in which

25:10things are built on not extracted and

25:13plugged in um so so thing things and

25:16people are are built on and it's an

25:18evolutionary process the point is a lot

25:20of the people in my leadership team

25:21we've worked together for a long time so

25:23I think one of the things that we were

25:25for fortuitous in was there was a lot of

25:27trust

25:29as a I think that's one I think the

25:32other piece is being willing and it's

25:34related to the human piece being willing

25:37to have those honest conversations in

25:38the room so I'll give you a great

25:40example um you know you you want to

25:44create an environment in your

25:45organization where you're leveraging the

25:47diversity in the

25:49room and so that you get good outcomes

25:51so you want people

25:54contributing and you know a lot of

25:56organizations will say right there's a

25:57rule set on how we will debate we'll

26:01we'll openly debate for example now in

26:03my world and it's not exclusive to Asia

26:06Pacific but I know there are cultures

26:08and individuals where that will not

26:10happen yeah so we had a discussion

26:13around this in my Collective leadership

26:15team of

26:1734 where we said well what do we want to

26:20achieve here we want to create an

26:22environment where no we don't want

26:25everybody talking at the same level

26:27where we have to force people

26:29up to the most vocal individual in the

26:32room because you you have variations but

26:35what we work very hard on is to create

26:37an honest open conversation that allows

26:39for an environment when we come together

26:41where we know and

26:43acknowledge you might be more vocal than

26:46I

26:47am but we work very hard as a collective

26:50all of us to make sure that the quieter

26:54individuals are good with the direction

26:56of the conversation that might mean the

26:58person sitting next next to us so you

27:01might say to me just quietly Lance are

27:04you good with this discussion and I may

27:06be very fine I'm not saying anything

27:09because I'm a quieter character but so

27:11long as the system allows for the

27:13quieter person who's very often got the

27:17the the gold that you're looking for

27:19when they do want to participate they

27:21are comfortable participating but we're

27:23not forcing everybody up so I use that

27:25as an example of how we're acknowledg

27:28ing the human behavior and the

27:30differences in singular individuals

27:33those differences are driven by

27:35character and culture and and and many

27:37different things but trying to create

27:39this organization when we are all in the

27:41room and we do a lot of time working in

27:42small groups where there is some time

27:46spent

27:49constantly sharpening the sore if you

27:51like on making sure our system works

27:54yeah uh and I think that's very very

27:57important and I think the other element

28:00is the initial conversation we had so

28:03you know when we set this up um we I

28:06talked a lot about guard rails and not

28:09rules yeah we're all adults let's let's

28:13not treat adults like children right

28:15these are my senior leaders across the

28:17region and so we're all adults they're

28:19all running businesses in their own

28:23right create the guard rails allow the

28:26teams the space to flex and move within

28:28that but there are guard rails so like I

28:31said before it's not creating chaos

28:34guard rails and then by sort of

28:35definition guard rails provide a place

28:39where everybody's heading in a Direction

28:41so what is that direction yeah and very

28:44clearly what did I mean

28:47by handing the keys to the car over

28:49which is kind of what I did and we

28:51talked about that the beginning I said

28:53guys it's like as a parent it's my car

28:56but I'm trusting you to drive it I still

28:58I'm still responsible for it if

29:00something happens the police are coming

29:01to me but I'm trusting you to drive it

29:04so the conversation we had was a very

29:06deliberate one and um you I spoke to to

29:09my 34 and and and the conversation we

29:12had was for example as a as a parent

29:14your children get to a point where they

29:16they've got their driver's license but

29:17they may not have a car so you you

29:19entrust the keys to the

29:21car um with the team it's still my car

29:26if something happens the police are

29:27coming to me but I

29:29trust that you guys will be able to

29:32drive the car and in truth you've then

29:35got 34 people instead of one so it has

29:39to be better it has to be more effective

29:42but we very specifically set it up that

29:44way and we we actually workshopped this

29:45over three days the first when we pulled

29:47this team together under this construct

29:50we spent three days designing how it

29:52would

29:54work

29:55and uh no content in the three days we

29:59did not get into business discussions we

30:01spent time creating a model that would

30:04we

30:05believed that would allow this to work

30:09and even to the extent where the trust

30:10in the room was on day three the team

30:15said actually Lance the next

30:17conversation is better without

30:19you can you please

30:21leave and I said yes of course if the if

30:24the outcome requires me to leave

30:26fantastic no problems at all

30:28W so like I said the trust was there but

30:31we're constantly building it and

30:33evolving it as we go the trust really as

30:36the basis for these discussions I mean

30:39it is because I I think and when I say

30:43trust it's people getting to know each

30:44other I I can look you in the eye and I

30:46can and and I and I know where you stand

30:49on something it's it's more than the

30:52mechanics of what you do it's who you

30:56are yeah and I think bringing that forth

30:59to allow trust to exist in in a in a

31:01very human honest way that's the

31:04foundation by which you can move forward

31:06I love the image of of you kind of

31:08handing over the keys uh and the car

31:11which you still own and where you still

31:13pay the insurance you're accountable for

31:16nobody's crashed it so that's good

31:17exactly and I was thinking of yes as as

31:21a young adult my father also handed over

31:23the keys to me I took very well care yet

31:25once I came back with a scratch it was

31:27not my mistake uh but there was a

31:29scratch it never is it never is of

31:31course and it it didn't feel very good

31:33to admit to it right so what happened to

31:36your car the guys are doing a great job

31:38with it I I really have to say I think

31:41what we're seeing is an

31:44unlocking of pace actually so we run

31:49this

31:50model whereby we take an agile approach

31:53yes I've got the wisdom of my 34 who

31:56represent all of my soon 6,600 people so

32:01none of my 6,600 people across the ape

32:04region are in the shadow they are all

32:06represented at my enabling team but of

32:09course that's a big team and the way we

32:11you can't make decisions with that many

32:14people in a room absolutely not so

32:16that's where the agile model comes in

32:18where we where we take um we take a

32:22topic and the first question we ask is

32:24is the topic right for this team and

32:26only this team to solve if it's too

32:29tactical we push it back into the system

32:31we go no we're not taking that on but if

32:34it's at the right strategic level and as

32:36part of our governance responsibilities

32:38for example we take that on we create a

32:40small team around it and they go and

32:43solve they come back and they get

32:45feedback and then when they when they

32:47bring their final final um model back

32:50into the group we ask One Singular

32:52question all of all 34 is there any

32:55reason why this can't be adopted and

32:57it's very important specific use of

33:00language we're not getting into a

33:02discussion to say well you painted it

33:04blue I would have painted it red no

33:06that's irrelevant is there any reason

33:08why this model cannot be

33:10adopted so far it's been great work and

33:14the answer is yes so you have multiple

33:18work product teams operating within the

33:20leadership team on an ongoing basis and

33:23we're getting many more things done than

33:26everything flowing up through the old

33:28pyramid structure so it's mobilizing

33:31people in an organized way to solve the

33:34right backlog problems that we as a as

33:36an enabling team uh have to deal with on

33:39a regular basis so so far yeah it's

33:43we're all kind of looking at each other

33:44a little bit and going wow this model's

33:47working and it's a bit of fun yeah yeah

33:49and I can feel that I can feel that VIP

33:51and I know it is successful I mean

33:53people at rush are talking about it as a

33:55as a best practice and in the same time

33:57leadership uh is something intangible in

34:00many ways and we are always looking for

34:02kpis to measure impact have we been able

34:05to kind of look at some Matrix or have

34:07you been able to study impact uh at

34:09least to a certain degree I would be

34:11honest and say no we're not measuring

34:13that yet I think that might evolve uh as

34:17time goes on but what I would say is is

34:20is there there's been key elements that

34:22would have taken us years to move

34:24forward that we've moved forward in a in

34:26a matter of months yeah

34:28um things like developing our our young

34:31in career talent for example small teams

34:34been working the right people around the

34:36table with our Global colleagues who are

34:38very supportive of of the various

34:40initiatives that we have and we're

34:43getting Solutions we're getting outcome

34:44we're getting traction that we haven't

34:47been able to in the past so I see that

34:49is an indicator for example of success I

34:51think the other one is the role my ape

34:55leaders now play on the global stage

34:59in other words it's not Lance speaking

35:01for

35:02APAC it's my leaders bringing their

35:06experience which is phenomenal into the

35:09broader Rush organization which is

35:12hugely valuable for the organization as

35:14a whole because we're unlocking talent

35:16and and knowledge and experience that's

35:18there but we're giving them a a license

35:21to participate and culturally that's a

35:25often a a big challenge to get past

35:28yeah yeah so early indications there's

35:30some real real shining lights that I

35:32look at and go yeah this is this is

35:34exciting we're getting some wins on the

35:36board and I would assume that that

35:38surely then also increases the

35:39engagement right of of of of your people

35:42yes yeah we could never have run this

35:45model I want to be clear you could never

35:47have run this model without adopting in

35:50our case some fundamental agile tools to

35:53make the model work you can't suggest in

35:56an old management style approach to have

35:5834 people in the room no so I think it's

36:01important that we understand that that

36:04to allow this model that we're running

36:06to work we've had to adopt

36:09tools that we never had 10 years

36:12ago and only with those tools can this

36:15can can this operate truly impressive um

36:20so maybe what would you say are maybe

36:23your one or two key Lessons Learned From

36:26that Journey which is still ongoing um I

36:28I get that but maybe um just as you have

36:32a balcony moment that we're sitting here

36:33in Switzerland reflecting on it there's

36:36a lot of learnings and we've touched on

36:38a few of the elements I think also being

36:41honest that the journey we went on is an

36:45experiment and I framed it as an

36:46experiment um to an extent it still is

36:50um we're still learning we're still

36:51learning how to make it work but that

36:54then sets an expectation of everybody in

36:56the experiment so are we expecting

36:58Perfection on day three no we're

37:02not but creating the environment where

37:05in the spirit of collective leadership

37:07we all own the success of the experiment

37:10or the outcomes of the experiment so if

37:12something's not working well you can fix

37:15it or or you can have a conversation and

37:18and and bring the solution to the table

37:20it's

37:21empowering but I think a really

37:23important piece is setting the

37:24expectation if people come in and expect

37:26to drop into into a model and have it

37:30very structured and and rigid and a

37:32clear output at the end they'll they'll

37:34be

37:35disappointed they have to be comfortable

37:37working through the process and learning

37:39along the way and then changing our

37:41behaviors along the way on the basis of

37:43what we learn I think that's very

37:45important I'm sure many of our viewers

37:47and listeners they will say well this is

37:49truly inspiring um I would like to model

37:52uh uh or or or find my own way of of of

37:55living what what L is is living

37:57and doing and you know from from outside

38:00I think many of times these leadership

38:01Journeys they look very linear right um

38:04and and it's basically moving from one

38:06success to the other but then again when

38:09we look closer it's much more at least

38:11to me about how we deal with the

38:13setbacks um we are both sports fans I

38:16believe you you're doing a lot of sports

38:18I'm watching a lot of sports T but you

38:21know I followed for example closely the

38:23career of the great Roger Federer right

38:26here in Switzerland we all adire him now

38:28um statistics would say he lost about 46

38:31to 47 of all points he ever played on

38:33the tennis field right so wait a moment

38:37uh he won so many matches but he had to

38:39deal with losing almost every second

38:41Point yes um yeah and and the way he

38:44dealt with it obviously was was amazing

38:46right and helped him to be who he was

38:49amongst of course other other gifts yeah

38:51so I wanted to ask were the moments

38:54where you kind of really um fell down

38:56where you fell maybe that's it um and

39:00and and what made you go through that

39:02what helped you to be resilient I think

39:04we touch a little bit on our own

39:05characters as well and uh in this and in

39:08in my case what I've learned over the

39:10years I'm I'm very in fact when I say

39:13over the years in the in a few in the

39:15recent years I I've realized something

39:17about my character which is I'm very

39:19comfortable and in many ways look

39:22towards doing things that others may not

39:25have I talked about building a house

39:28when I was 23 years old for example um

39:32many people thought I was absolutely

39:34crazy as general manager of rash

39:36Diagnostics in New Zealand um going to

39:39India why would you do that um

39:42challenges a big thing for me and being

39:45comfortable if something hasn't been

39:47done before then okay we'll find the

39:50pathway uh create the pathway so I know

39:53that's a motivator for

39:55me um and and I guess with that as the

39:57sort of backdrop then okay could you

40:01could could could you utilize the

40:02richness of my team the people around me

40:05I have tremendous faith and trust in the

40:07people around me to create a new

40:11governance or enabling team model so

40:14there was courage in that with the with

40:16the people around me um yes the the

40:19journey and the

40:21setbacks

40:23I very much look at and it sounds cliche

40:28um but okay got that

40:30wrong what do I

40:33learn and do it differently next

40:36time and I wouldn't even go as far as to

40:39say do it right next time I say do it

40:40differently next time and maybe you get

40:42it wrong a second time but okay try it a

40:45third way so so in the spirit you you

40:49have in order to do that I think you've

40:50got to step away from my younger mindset

40:53of I have to win every time to a mindset

40:56that say is I have to learn to be to be

40:59better on the journey

41:01yeah um I still like to win yeah of

41:05course um that's in my makeup and in my

41:07character so I'm not stepping away from

41:08that but in a way in a sense it's a it's

41:11a richer way to allow hopefully us to

41:14win in the future yeah yeah and that's

41:17what I would call a growth mindset

41:18really right um which is that something

41:22you you have trained yourself into or is

41:24that would you say you had that I've

41:26learned yeah I I i' I've learned as a

41:28more senior leader um because I was very

41:31driven by here's here's what I've been

41:33able to do here's my achievements um

41:35Drive success win the game win the

41:38battle whatever it is win the race um

41:41and in doing so yeah good validation um

41:46so it's a hard thing to step away from

41:48and in a sense you've got to reframe the

41:51driver to be successful however you

41:53define success but reframe that to one

41:56that says is learn yeah which is

41:59different to train so I played a lot of

42:02sport when when I was younger and and um

42:06still try and stay relatively fit

42:09um and a big part of that was you knew

42:13the

42:14game

42:16train hit hit thousands of shots

42:18whatever it is to to hone that skill to

42:22be able to play the game better yeah

42:25whereas I think this journey is about

42:29seeking input you know how to play the

42:31game but seeking input to learn how to

42:33play the game differently to be better M

42:37and I think that sometimes our egos trip

42:40us up absolutely and that's something I

42:42think that mindset allows us this growth

42:45mindset allows us to uh to remain

42:48playful uh in these moments which are so

42:51important because yes we want to win yes

42:53um but just because um it is so

42:56important that we so much pressure on

42:58winning right now we tighten up and then

43:00obviously we not the best version of

43:01ourselves and look there are times right

43:03when sometimes you go actually we don't

43:05have the this piece is so critical no I

43:08am going to be all over this with the

43:10team and we're all going to make sure

43:11that that happens without a mistake we

43:15have to be

43:16honest you know there are times like

43:18that and I think as a leader in

43:20empowering your people there's also a a

43:24skill in knowing you know what the learn

43:27learning for that individual is more

43:29important than the outcome because we

43:31can always bring it back in and go again

43:33yeah um and I think that's an important

43:36part of leadership for people to to

43:38think about and in in their own

43:40leadership Journeys and how they manage

43:41their teams absolutely and maybe to stay

43:43with with with Roger feder you know when

43:45he started to lose uh even the big games

43:48where he had a time where he was almost

43:49invincible and he started losing against

43:51Nadal and jovic and even after losing

43:53for example Wimbledon after five sets it

43:57was cruel he used to say in press

43:59conferences and the Swiss media de had a

44:02big debate afterwards has he lost his

44:04his Cutting Edge you know he just used

44:06to say yes I'm I'm I'm really

44:08disappointed I'm sad I'm upset and then

44:11came usually a very interesting sentence

44:14that was difficult to understand he used

44:16to say but I learned a lot I gained a

44:18lot of data yeah so and and and then the

44:22media was many times writing and saying

44:25you know he has lost it he he he has

44:27lost his competitive ede yes but I think

44:30he had that growth mindset yeah um and

44:33cultivated that and that made him so

44:35great for such a long time yeah to build

44:37on that if I reflect you asked me

44:39earlier on sort of who's been

44:40influential or or who have I learned

44:42from what's really interesting is the

44:45gift for me in this Collective

44:47leadership journey is also I see my

44:53team doing things that I'm learning from

44:58as well so you're unlocking locking this

45:01this creativity and this excellence and

45:03allowing people to to to create their

45:06own Pathways to Solutions of of the

45:08problems we have to deal with and I go

45:11wow that's that's a really cool way to

45:13deal with that so again it's almost a

45:16continuous loop because we learn from

45:17those around me and a lot of the

45:19learning I get on a daily basis now is

45:21is from my team um in observing how

45:25they're operating yeah yeah even if we

45:27have a very positive mindset or a growth

45:30mindset um when we are tired when we are

45:32exhausted when we haven't eaten or slept

45:35it's difficult it's difficult to be the

45:37best version of ourself and you do all

45:39of that right you you you you travel

45:41across time zones Asia Pacific is huge

45:44and then you have to come to Switzerland

45:46obviously um you have backtack meetings

45:49I don't know how you manage your

45:51diet and and in the same time whenever I

45:54meet you you fresh I mean of course you

45:56must be tired sometimes but you have a

45:58certain level of high energy you're

46:00you're fit physically

46:02mentally what are your secrets to to to

46:05the success to manage yourself not your

46:086,600 people but yourself myself I don't

46:11know my guys might tell me I'm not

46:12always full of energy or in a positive

46:14mindset but um the

46:18the I I think the thing is acknowledge

46:21that we're all individual um for me I I

46:24do train I I commit 3 hours of a week to

46:28the gym um uh strength and conditioning

46:31training and that's a very important

46:33thing at two levels one is from the

46:36health perspective but I mentioned

46:38earlier on I'm a competitive individual

46:40now I I I don't play sport anymore

46:42competitively but that allows me to um

46:46to have a uh an environment where I can

46:49indulge that competitiveness even if

46:51it's against

46:52myself so and did we hit our numbers I

46:55work with a trainer did hit our numbers

46:57are we are we on the journey that that I

46:59want us to go on so that's an

47:02outlet and it's important I think to

47:04have an outlet um my children are grown

47:07up and my grandchildren are in New

47:08Zealand and and I'm in Singapore and and

47:11so um I also have time I mean we're at

47:15different phases in our lives we've got

47:17young families where you don't have that

47:18luxury so um I don't think there's one

47:21recipe uh but I think understanding what

47:25fills your cup versus what drains your

47:28cup and and Co was a great example and

47:31and my wife reminded me of this and uh

47:34we in Diagnostics in rash of course were

47:36at the white hot Center of covid uh you

47:39mentioned it earlier on and you know

47:41very difficult trying to as as we were

47:44the guys were were ramping up production

47:46doing incredible things um and the world

47:49screaming for more tests and and there

47:51was a period of time where it was very

47:52very difficult that kept us very very

47:54focused but of course for me me my wife

47:57reminded me as I was getting frustrated

48:00in year two um around the fact that my

48:05energy comes from being with my teams

48:07and my people and our customers yeah

48:09that fills my cup without being being

48:13able to travel in Co of course Asia was

48:15shut down yeah I was not getting that

48:18yeah um and so somebody pointed that out

48:22to me and it was very true um and often

48:25the the most honest feedback get us from

48:27our spouses and um uh she articulated

48:31that through and that made me acutely

48:33aware of actually that's very true so I

48:36I now know what fills my cup and what

48:38drains my cup and making sure that I'm

48:41aware of that so yes I travel a lot um

48:45but the beauty is when I land I get that

48:48energy from the teams um you know and

48:52and the conversations that that I have

48:54but I do need time for myself my own and

48:57that manifests itself on a on a weekly

48:59basis which is three training sessions a

49:02week um and when I my truly happy place

49:07as my team knows well is uh when I'm

49:09back in New Zealand um family's there

49:12which is which is fantastic and uh I'm

49:15on the boat catching some fish that's

49:17actually my happiest place so w and I

49:19can literally feel I can you excited

49:22feel it I can see it I've never been to

49:25New Zealand it's one of the places uh

49:28you know here in Switzerland we all when

49:30we young we talk about Australia New

49:31Zealand I have not been there well on

49:33behalf of touris and New Zealand I

49:35encourage you to

49:36go but I had the pleasure once to to to

49:39go fishing actually for for for two

49:41months with with my best friend at that

49:43time after when I was about 20 uh in

49:47Finland that was it was amazing

49:49experience so I can relate to two months

49:50fishing that that would be heaven for me

49:52I like that a lot yeah it was it was

49:55great surely something for the mind all

49:56right being in the present moment is so

49:59vitally important maybe just being with

50:01that one activity of yes of nothing

50:06happening right now yes yeah I I I find

50:09and probably many of us are like this is

50:12is when we're in the busyness of of the

50:14dayto day the week to week the month to

50:15month reflection is often quite

50:18difficult um and I I have a couple of

50:21small routines that I have um we uh

50:27uh again learned through through

50:30leadership training and and just a f

50:33minute Habit in the morning when I get

50:34up and uh have a cup of coffee and I'm

50:36on my own I I just do it an internal

50:39sense check of how am I today because I

50:42learned that how I show up in the office

50:45yeah or in

50:46meetings if I've had a bad night's sleep

50:49and I'm grumpy well then that so it's

50:51just a pause to go it's really how am I

50:55today and then is that how I need to be

50:57yeah so it's a that's a that's an every

51:01morning Dynamic and then the other thing

51:03that I try and do at the end of every

51:05week as I I mentioned we have

51:07a um uh a descriptor of how we and APAC

51:13like to behave yeah um it's known as

51:15APAC spirit and um I try and regularly

51:19reflect back on how I have have I met

51:22those so again it's a look in the mirror

51:24so this was a commitment to the team

51:27and have I lived that commitment in the

51:29last week and you kind of reflect back

51:30and go well in that meeting I did pretty

51:33well but in the other one no I didn't do

51:34so well so it's constantly trying to

51:36hold yourself to a an improvement

51:40process become a better version of

51:41ourselves as we say yeah yeah you're

51:44sitting there 5 minutes in the morning

51:46uh to really be with yourself being

51:48present and and and and I think that

51:51that aspect of um pausing yes um in that

51:57constant attempt to run and run faster

51:59is so vitally important we can call it

52:02being mindful being present I wouldn't

52:04go as far as to say I'm clever enough to

52:06reshape my head space in that five

52:09minutes but it's acknowledging and

52:11knowing be careful Lance you're a bit

52:14reactive today yeah yeah yeah so and

52:17then that's sort of front of Mind as you

52:19enter into into the space and don't get

52:21it right A lot of the time but um I

52:24actually found that quite a a powerful

52:26tool um yeah moments of self awareness

52:31yes even acknowledging that I might be

52:34reactive today already I mean I'm on the

52:36balcony and so

52:38yes I can intervene potentially yeah

52:41yeah we started with that notion of you

52:44being the young L and and and and what

52:46your parents would have told or thought

52:49about you and I was thinking to close

52:52with with the idea of what would you

52:54advise your

52:57self if you would meet yourself maybe at

52:59the age of 20 um and we would think that

53:04with that experience that you have

53:05gained you could advise yourself at that

53:08age so that maybe certain mistakes you

53:10don't need to do you could learn more

53:13directly or of course for us here we can

53:16learn from from you in terms of how to

53:18be One's best version yes there's

53:21there's a temptation to go and and want

53:24to advise in the form of a race all of

53:27the errors and and I wouldn't say that

53:30because again with the knowledge and

53:32that I have now then those were were

53:34learning and shaping opportunities so in

53:37that sense I wouldn't I would make the

53:39same mistakes again or let my younger

53:41self make those mistakes however what I

53:44would say and and maybe this is

53:46something of growing up in New Zealand

53:48which is a a not a small country but a

53:51small population um far far away from

53:54the rest of the world I I would

53:57encourage myself to have a bigger view

54:00of the world as a 20year old because

54:04that's the gift that that I really

54:05treasure in my in my journey with rash

54:08over the years and and operating across

54:10many different cultures in the APAC

54:12environment it's just broadened my view

54:14of the world tremendously and I see that

54:16as as I'm extremely grateful for that

54:19personally and um uh so so that might be

54:23my advice the world is a very big place

54:25be curious

54:26to the 20y old lines uh and then go and

54:29make all the mistakes that that that you

54:31can so wow thanks a lot for that and I

54:35think u i I can feel that you're living

54:38life with that Curiosity um and you have

54:41been so curious to Endeavor into a new

54:44uh leadership Journey Collective

54:45leadership Journey thank you so much for

54:47for sharing uh your curiosity and your

54:50insights with us pleas um I was curious

54:53how this discussion will evolve me too I

54:56didn't know where we going to go I'm I'm

54:58very very happy thank thanks a lot

54:59thanks CH really appreciate the

55:01opportunity appr thank you thank you

55:02very happy you joined as always uh if

55:05you feel subscribed to the channel stay

55:07tuned and all the best