Full transcript
0:00we've come to Buckingham Palace in
0:02highly unusual circumstances normally
0:05we'd be discussing your work your duty
0:08will come on to that but today you've
0:11chosen to speak out for the first time
0:13why have you decided to talk now because
0:18and there is no good time to talk about
0:23mr. Epstein and all things associated
0:27and we've been talking to news night for
0:33about six months about doing something
0:36around the work that I was doing and
0:38unfortunately we've just not been able
0:40to fit it into either your shared your
0:42or my schedule until now and actually
0:46it's a very good opportunity and I'm
0:48delighted to be able to see you today as
0:50you say all of this goes back to your
0:53friendship with Jeffrey Epstein how did
0:56you first become friends how did you
0:58meet well I met through his girlfriend
1:01back in 1999
1:04who and I'd known her since she was at
1:07university in the UK and it would be to
1:11some extent to stretch to say that that
1:13I think where we were close friends
1:16where we were friends because of other
1:18people and I had a lot of opportunity to
1:23go to the United States but I didn't
1:27have much time
1:28with him I suppose I saw him once or
1:31twice a year perhaps maybe maximum of 3
1:33times a year and quite often if I was in
1:37the United States and doing things and
1:38if he wasn't there he would say well why
1:41don't you come and use my eyes I said
1:44that's very kind thank you very much
1:45indeed but it would be it would be a
1:50considerable stretch to say that he was
1:52a very very close friend but he had the
1:54most extraordinary ability to bring
1:58extrordinary people together and that's
2:02the bit that I remember is going to the
2:04dinner parties where you would meet
2:06academics politicians people from the
2:09United Nations I mean it was a it was a
2:11cosmopolitan group
2:13whatever describers as US eminence was
2:17that his appeal then was that what you
2:19because you you were perceived by the
2:21public as being the party Prince was
2:24that something anything that's also a
2:27bit of a stretch I don't know why I've
2:32collected that title because I don't I I
2:36never have really partied I was single
2:40for quite a long time in the early 80s
2:45but then after I got married I was very
2:49happy and I've never really felt the
2:53need to go and party and certainly going
2:57to Jeffrey's was not about partying
3:01absolutely not
3:02you said you weren't very good friends
3:04but would you describe him as a good
3:06friend did you trust him yes I think I
3:10probably did but again I don't go into a
3:18friendship looking for the wrong thing
3:22if you understand what I mean I'm and
3:23I'm an engaging person I want to be able
3:26to engage I want to find out I want to
3:29learn and so but we have to remember
3:34that I was transitioning out of the Navy
3:35at the time and in the transition I
3:39wanted to find out more about what was
3:44going on because in the Navy it's a
3:48pretty isolated business because you're
3:50out at sea the whole time and I was
3:53going to become the Special
3:54Representative for international trade
3:56and investment so I wanted to know more
3:58about what was going on in the
3:59international business world and so that
4:01was another reason for going there and
4:04the opportunities that I had to go to
4:07Wall Street and other places to learn
4:11whilst I was there were were absolutely
4:14vital
4:15he was your guest as well in 2000
4:18Epstein was a guest at Windsor Castle
4:20and at Sandringham he was brought right
4:23into the heart of the world
4:24your invitation but certainly at my
4:28invitation not at the Royal Family's
4:29invitation but remember that it was his
4:33girlfriend that was the key element in
4:37this he was the as it were plus-one to
4:41some extent in my writing thing you
4:43threw a birthday party for Epstein's
4:46girlfriend girl in Maxwell at
4:48Sandringham no it was a shooting weekend
4:52shooting week just a straightforward
4:54straightforward shooting weekend but
4:56during these times that he was a guest
4:59at Windsor Castle at Sandringham the
5:02shooting weekend we now know that he was
5:07and had been procuring young girls for
5:11sex trafficking we now know that at the
5:16time there was no indication to me or
5:20anybody else that that was what he was
5:24doing and certainly when I saw him
5:29either in the United States I know when
5:32I saw him in the United States or when I
5:34was staying in his houses in the United
5:35States there was no indication
5:37absolutely no indication and if there
5:41was you have to remember that at the
5:44time I was patron of the NSPCC .
5:49campaign so I was close up with what was
5:53going on in those time about getting rid
5:57of abuse to children so I knew what was
6:00what what the things were to look for
6:02but I never saw them so you would have
6:04made that connection because you stayed
6:06with him you were a visitor a guest on
6:08many occasions at his homes and nothing
6:11struck you as suspicious during that
6:15whole time just for the record you've
6:18peed on his private plane yes you've
6:21been to stay on his private island yes
6:24you've stayed at his home in Palm Beach
6:27yes you visited Gillen Maxwell's house
6:31in Belgravia in London yes so in 2006 in
6:37may an arrest warrant was issued for
6:40Epstein for sexual assault of a minor
6:42yes in July he was invited to Windsor
6:47Castle - your daughter princess
6:49Beatrice's 18th birthday why would you
6:52do that because I was asking galloon but
6:56even so at the time I don't think I
7:00certainly I wasn't aware when the
7:03invitation was issued what was going on
7:05in the United States and I wasn't aware
7:07until until the media picked up on it
7:09because he never said nothing about it
7:11he never discussed with you the fact
7:13that an arrest warrant had been issued
7:15so he came to that party knowing police
7:19were investigating him whether it was it
7:23police it I don't know see this is the
7:24promise that I release at the time but
7:26I'm afraid he see this is the problem
7:28this is an awful lot of this was going
7:30on in the United States and I wasn't a
7:31party to it and I knew nothing about it
7:33in 2008 he was convicted of soliciting
7:37and procuring a minor for prostitution
7:40he was jailed this is your friend how do
7:44you feel about it
7:45well I ceased contact with him after I
7:49was aware that he was under
7:53investigation and that was later on in
7:55in 2006 and I wasn't in touch with him
8:01again until 2010 so I just it just it
8:06was one of those things that somebody's
8:08going through that sort of thing well
8:09I'm terribly sorry I can't be when he
8:13was serving time there was no call no
8:15letter nothing there he was released in
8:19July within months by December of 2010
8:23you went to stay with him at his New
8:25York mansion why why were you staying
8:28with a convicted sex offender right
8:30I have always ever since this has
8:35happened and since this has become
8:37public knowledge that I was there I've
8:39questioned myself as to why did I go
8:43what was I doing
8:45and was it the right thing to do now I
8:48went there with the
8:50sole purpose of saying to him that
8:52because he had been convicted it was
8:55inappropriate for us to be seen together
8:58and I had a number of people cancel me
9:03in both directions either to go and see
9:06him or not to go to him and I took the
9:09judgment call that because this was
9:12serious and I felt that doing it over
9:19the telephone was the chickens way of
9:22doing it I had to go and see him and
9:24talk to him and I went to see him and I
9:29was doing a number of other things in
9:30New York at the time and we had an
9:33opportunity to go for a walk in the park
9:35and that was the conversation
9:39coincidentally that was photographed
9:42which was when I said to him I said look
9:44because of what has happened I don't
9:47think it is appropriate that we should
9:50remain in contact and by mutual
9:54agreement during that walk in the park
9:56we decided that we would part company
9:58and I left I think it was the next day
10:00and to this day I never had any contact
10:04with him from that day forward what did
10:06he say when you told him that you were
10:08breaking at the friendship he was what I
10:12would describe as understanding he
10:17didn't go into any great depth in the
10:19conversation about what I was doing what
10:21he was doing except to say that that
10:25that he'd accepted - but it was a plea
10:30bargain he'd served his time and he was
10:35carrying on with his life
10:37see what I mean and I said yes but I'm
10:39afraid to say that that that that's as
10:42may be but with all the attendant
10:46scrutiny on me then I don't think is a
10:51wise thing to do who advised you then
10:54that it was a good idea to go and break
10:56up the friendship does that come from
10:57the palace how much that came from so
11:01there were a number of people who
11:03so some people from my staff some people
11:06from friends and family I was talking to
11:09and I took the decision that it was I
11:12had to show leadership and I had to go
11:14and see him and I had to tell him that's
11:16it that was December of 2010 he threw a
11:20party to celebrate his release and you
11:23were invited as a guest of honor
11:25Oh in 2010 that there wasn't certainly
11:29wasn't a party to celebrate his release
11:32in December because it was a small
11:36dinner party there were only eight or
11:38ten of us I think at the dinner if there
11:40was if there was a party then I do
11:42nothing about that you were invited to
11:44that dinner as a guest of honor well I
11:47was there so there was a dinner I think
11:49he was quite as as you might put it but
11:52yeah okay I was there for a point I was
11:54there and did I get I'm just trying to
11:56work this out because you said you went
11:57to break up the relationship and yet you
11:59stayed at that New York mansion several
12:01days I'm wondering how I was doing a
12:04number of other things while I was there
12:05but you were staying at the house it was
12:07convicted sex offender it was a
12:11convenient place to stay there's I mean
12:13I mean I've gone through this in my mind
12:15so many times at the end of the day with
12:21the benefit of all the hindsight that
12:23one could have it was definitely the
12:27wrong thing to do but at the time I felt
12:30it was it was the honorable and right
12:32thing to do and I admit fully that that
12:36that my judgment was probably colored by
12:41my tendency to be too honorable but
12:46that's just the way it is because during
12:48that time those few days witnesses say
12:51they saw many young girls coming and
12:54going at the time there is video footage
12:56of Epstein accompanied by young girls
12:59and you were there staying in his house
13:01catching up with friends I never I mean
13:06if they were then I wasn't a party to
13:11any of that I never saw them I mean you
13:14have to have to understand that that
13:16that his house I described it more as a
13:21as a almost as a railway station if you
13:23know what I mean in the sense that there
13:24were people coming in and out of that
13:26house all the time what they were doing
13:30and why they were there I had nothing to
13:32do with so I am afraid I I can't make
13:37any comments on that because I I really
13:39don't know another guest was Jon
13:42Brockman the literary agent now he
13:45described seeing you there getting a
13:47foot massage from a young Russian woman
13:51did that happen no you're absolutely
13:54sure you can't remember absolutely sure
13:57so Jon Brockman statement is false I
14:00wouldn't I wouldn't I don't know mr.
14:03Brockman so I don't know what he's
14:05talking about but that definitely wasn't
14:07you getting a foot massage from a
14:09Russian girl in Jeffrey Epstein cells
14:11know it might seem a funny way to break
14:16off a friendship afford a house party of
14:19sorts with a dinner
14:21it's an odd way to put is that that's a
14:24very stark way of putting it yes you're
14:27absolutely right
14:29but actually the the the the truth of it
14:33is is that is that I actually only saw
14:36him for about what the part that the
14:41dinner party the walk in the park
14:44and probably passing in the passage so
14:49let's go to that central part which was
14:52snapped friends of yours suggests that
14:54Epstein wanted that photo taken perhaps
14:57he'd even set it up do you worry that
15:01you were being played again new
15:05informations coming out since his
15:09suicide has made us reappraise that walk
15:15in the park we can't find any evidence
15:18or my staff and my people than I can't
15:22find any evidence to suggest that that
15:24was what he was doing I mean you can
15:27look at it in so many different ways the
15:29the fact the fact there is is that
15:32somebody very cleverly took that
15:35photograph it wasn't as far as I were I
15:40remember
15:40nor do my security people remember
15:43anybody being present or close because
15:49there were enough security around I mean
15:52the photographs of the security people
15:54are in the around in the photo so I
15:57could he could have done but I yeah I
16:02guess what I'm asked is do you feel that
16:04you were part of Epstein's public
16:07rehabilitation oh no funny enough I
16:11don't know I mean if if if he was if he
16:17was doing if that photograph was taken
16:19for that with that purpose in mind then
16:22it doesn't it doesn't equate to what
16:26actually happened so why wouldn't you
16:28announce this this breakup when you got
16:31back why wouldn't you publicly explain
16:33what you done did you worry that he had
16:35something that could compromise you know
16:38yeah do you regret that trip yes
16:42do you regret the whole friendship with
16:43Epstein now manat and the reason being
16:50is that that the the people that I met
16:53and the opportunities that I was given
16:57to learn either by him or because of him
17:03were actually very useful he himself not
17:11as it were as close as you might think
17:14we're not went we weren't we weren't
17:15that close so therefore I mean yes I
17:17would go and stay in his house but that
17:19was because of his girlfriend not
17:22because of him was that visit December
17:25of 2010 the only time you saw him after
17:29he was convicted did you see him or
17:31speak to him again 2010 was it that was
17:35it because I went well first of all I
17:38wanted to make sure that that if I was
17:42going to
17:43go and see him I had to make sure that
17:46that that that there was enough time
17:48between his release because it wasn't
17:51something that I was going into in a
17:54hurry but I had to go and see him I had
17:57to go and see him stay with him and stay
18:00in the house I could easily have gone
18:02and stayed somewhere else but the sheer
18:04convenience of being able to get a hold
18:07of the man is I mean he was he was in
18:11and out all over the place so getting
18:13him in one place for a period time to
18:16actually have a long enough conversation
18:18to say look these are the reasons why
18:20I'm not going to and that happened on
18:22the walk July of this year Epstein was
18:25arrested on charges of sex trafficking
18:27and abusing dozens of underage girls
18:30one of Epstein's accusers Virginia
18:33Roberts has made allegations against you
18:36she says she met you in 2001 she says
18:40she dined with you danced with you at
18:42[ __ ] nightclub in London she went on to
18:45have sex with you in a house in
18:47Belgravia belonging to girl and Maxwell
18:50your friend your response I have no
18:53recollection of ever meeting this lady
18:57you don't remember meeting her
19:00she says she met you in 2001 she dined
19:04with you she danced with you you bought
19:08her drinks you're in [ __ ] nightclub in
19:11London and she went on to have sex with
19:14you in a house in Belgravia belonging to
19:18girl in Maxwell didn't happen do you
19:21remember her no I've no recollection of
19:26ever meeting her
19:27I'm almost in fact I'm convinced that I
19:32was never in trance with her there are a
19:35number of things that are wrong with
19:36that story one of which is that is that
19:39I don't know where the bar isn't in
19:42tramps I don't drink I don't think I've
19:49ever bought a drink in trance whenever I
19:52was there
19:53do you remember dancing at [ __ ]
19:56no that couldn't have happened because
20:00the date that there's being suggested I
20:02was at home with the children you know
20:06that you were at home with the children
20:08was it a memorable night on that
20:11particular day that that we now
20:15understand is the date which is the 10th
20:18of March I was at home I was with the
20:22children I'd taken Beatrice to a pizza
20:26express in working for a party at a I
20:29suppose sort of 4:00 or 5:00 in the
20:31afternoon and then because the Duchess
20:34was away we have a simple rule in the in
20:37the family that that when one's away the
20:40other ones there I was on terminal leave
20:42at the time from the Royal Navy so
20:46therefore I was at home why would you
20:47remember that so specifically why would
20:49you remember a a pizza express birthday
20:51and being at home because going to Pizza
20:54Express in Woking is an unusual thing
20:56for me to do a very unusual thing for me
21:00to do I've never been I've only been
21:02through working a couple of times and I
21:04remember it weirdly distinctly but as
21:07soon as somebody reminded me of it I
21:09remember that I have no recollection of
21:13ever meeting or being in the company or
21:18the presence so you're absolutely sure
21:20that you're at home on the 10th of March
21:22she was very specific about that night
21:25she described dancing with you and you
21:28profusely sweating and that she went on
21:32to have possibly there's a slight
21:35problem with with with with with the
21:37sweating because I have a peculiar
21:43medical condition which is that I don't
21:45sweat or I didn't sweat at the time and
21:48that was a machine yes
21:50I didn't sweat at the time because I had
21:55suffered what I would describe as an
21:57overdose of adrenaline in the Falklands
21:59War when I was shot at and I simply it
22:03was it was it was almost impossible for
22:05me to sweat and it's only because I have
22:08done a number of
22:09things in the recent past that I'm
22:12starting to be able to do that again so
22:15I'm afraid to say that there's a medical
22:17condition that says that it didn't do it
22:18so therefore is it possible that you met
22:21Virginia Roberts dined with her danced
22:25with her in [ __ ] had sex with her on
22:27another date no do you remember meeting
22:33her at all do you know you didn't meet
22:36her or do you just not remember no I
22:39have IIIi don't know if I've met her but
22:42no I have no recollection of the meeting
22:44because she was very specific she
22:46described the dance that you had
22:48together in [ __ ]
22:49she described meeting you she was a 17
22:53year old girl meeting a senior member of
22:56the royal family never happened she
23:00provided a photo of the two of you
23:02together yes your arm was around her
23:05waist yes you've seen the photo I've
23:08seen the first girl how do you explain
23:09that I can't because I don't I have no
23:14again I have absolutely no memory of
23:17that photograph ever being taken do you
23:19recognize yourself look it was pretty
23:21difficult not to recognize yourself your
23:24friend suggested that the photo is fake
23:26I think it's from the investigations
23:31that we've done you can't prove whether
23:34or not that photograph is faked or not
23:37because it is a photograph of a
23:40photograph of a photograph so it's very
23:42difficult to be able to to prove it but
23:46I I don't remember that photograph ever
23:49being taken but it's possible that it
23:51was you with you that's me but but
23:54whether that's my hand or whether that's
23:55the position I but I don't I have simply
24:00no recollection of the photograph ever
24:03being taken the world has now seen the
24:05photo that Virginia Roberts provided
24:08taken by Epstein we understand in
24:12Guerlain Maxwell's house here's the
24:14problem I've never seen Epstein with a
24:17camera in my life I think it was
24:19Virginia Roberts camera she said a
24:21little code at one that
24:22she lent to Epstein he took a photo and
24:25your arm I don't remember I don't
24:28remember that photograph ever being
24:32taken I don't remember going upstairs in
24:35the house because that photograph is
24:36taken upstairs and I'm not entirely
24:42convinced that I mean that is that is
24:45what I would describe as me in in that
24:47in that picture but I can't we can't be
24:50certain as to whether or not that's my
24:52hand on her
24:54whatever it is left left side you think
24:58because I have no recollection of that
25:00photograph ever being taken so why would
25:03somebody have put in another hand you
25:05think it is you next to her in the photo
25:07but definitely me that's a picture of me
25:11it's not a picture of I don't believe
25:13it's a picture of me in London because
25:15when I go out to when I go out in London
25:16I wear a suit and the tie that's what I
25:21would describe as those are my traveling
25:23clothes if I'm going to go if I'm going
25:26overseas there's a I've got a plenty of
25:28photographs of me dressed in in those
25:31sorts of that sort of kit but not there
25:34just to clarify so you think that photo
25:36has been faked nobody can prove whether
25:42or not that photograph has been adopted
25:45but I don't recollect that photograph
25:48ever being taken and you don't recollect
25:50having your hand round her waist in girl
25:55in Maxwell's house on any occasion even
25:57if it was a different I'm sorry but if I
26:00as a member the royal family and I have
26:03a photograph taken and I take very very
26:05few photographs I am NOT one to as it
26:10were
26:11hug and public displays of affection are
26:14not something that that I do so that
26:20that's the best explanation I can give
26:22you and then and I'm afraid to say that
26:24that I don't believe that photograph was
26:28taken in the way that has been suggested
26:31why would people not believe that you
26:34were there
26:35I'm sorry why would I'm just trying to
26:38understand there's a photo inside Gillan
26:41Maxwell's house
26:42Golan herself is in the background why
26:46would people not believe that you were
26:49there with her that night how they might
26:55well wish to wish to believe it but
26:56there's a the the photograph is taken
26:58upstairs and I don't think I have a went
27:01upstairs in gallons house was sure that
27:06yeah because the because the because the
27:08dining room and everything was on the
27:09phone that was on the ground floor was
27:12and it was as you came in them as you
27:13came in the hall so I don't remember
27:16ever going up there I'm at a loss to
27:18explain this particular photograph if
27:21the if the original was ever produced
27:24then perhaps we might be able to solve
27:26it but you you can say categorically
27:28that you don't recall meeting Virginia
27:34Roberts
27:35dining with her dancing with her a [ __ ]
27:38you're going on to have sex with her
27:40in a bedroom in a house in Belgravia I
27:43can absolutely categorically tell you it
27:48never happened
27:48do you recall any kind of sexual contact
27:51with Virginia Roberts then not any other
27:54time none whatsoever
27:55because she said in a legal deposition a
27:58legal court document in 2015 she had sex
28:02with you three times
28:03she is not confused about this she said
28:06the first was in London when she was
28:08trafficked to you the second was at
28:11Epstein's mansion in New York that is a
28:16date in April I believe is that correct
28:18she said it was a month or so later yeah
28:20well I think the date that we have for
28:24that shows that I was in Boston or I was
28:31in New York the previous day and I was
28:35at a dinner for the wood band Trust in
28:39New York and then I flew up to Boston
28:41the following day and then on a day that
28:44she says that this that this occurred
28:46she they'd already
28:47left in to go to the island before I got
28:50back from Boston so I don't think that
28:53could have happened at all there was a
28:54witness there Jana Stolberg who says
28:57that you did visit the house in that
28:59month I probably did I don't think I've
29:02been one of the weird things I was
29:04staying with the because of the what I
29:08was doing I was staying with the Consul
29:10General which is further down the street
29:12on fifth so I wasn't I wasn't staying
29:17there I may have visited but I but but
29:19no definitely didn't definitely
29:22definitely no no no activity because in
29:25a legal deposition 2015 she said she had
29:29sex with you three times once in a
29:31London house when she was trafficked to
29:33you in Maxwell's house once in New York
29:37a month or so later at Epstein's mansion
29:39and once on his private island in a
29:42group of seven or eight other girls no
29:49no to all of them absolutely no to all
29:55of it why would she be saying those
29:58things we wonder exactly the same but I
30:04have no idea absolutely no idea she made
30:09these claims in a u.s. deposition mm-hm
30:13are you saying you don't believe her
30:17she's lying that's a very difficult
30:21thing to answer because I'm not in a
30:26position to know what she's trying to
30:33achieve but because I can tell you
30:37categorically I don't remember meeting
30:41her at all I do not remember the
30:45photograph being taken and I've said
30:47consistently and and frequently that we
30:54never had any sort of sexual contact
30:56whatever
30:57she spoke about
30:59to you outside the court in August of
31:02this year she said I quote he knows
31:05exactly what he's done and I hope he
31:08comes clean about it was nothing
31:11so if Virginia Roberts is watching this
31:14interview what is your message to her I
31:19don't have a message for her because I
31:23have to have a thick skin if somebody's
31:26going to make those sorts of allegations
31:28then I'm just going to have a thick skin
31:31and get on with it but they never
31:32happened for the record is there any way
31:35you could have had sex with that young
31:38woman or any young woman trafficked by
31:40Jeffrey Epstein in any of his residences
31:43no and and and without putting too fine
31:50a point on it if you're a man it is a
31:54positive act to have sex with somebody
31:57you have to have to take some sort of
32:01positive action and so therefore if you
32:05try to forget it's very difficult to try
32:09and forget positive action and I do not
32:13remember anything
32:14I can't I've racked my brain and
32:17thinking oh well when the first
32:19delegation is where the allegations came
32:20out originally I went well that's a bit
32:23strange I didn't remember this and then
32:25I've been through it and through it and
32:27through it over and over and over again
32:30and no nothing
32:35Epstein's housekeeper also in a Florida
32:38Court legal deposition said that you
32:40visited the Palm Beach residents around
32:43four times a year you got a daily
32:45massage four times a year that was what
32:47he said in a Florida Court legal
32:49deposition oh I'm just wondering when
32:51you look back now is there a chance that
32:54those massages might have been the
32:56services of someone who was being
32:58sexually exploited or trafficked by
33:01Epstein hmm no I don't think I mean I no
33:08definitely not definitely not and Ivan
33:11definitely did not visit
33:13his palm beach house three or four times
33:16a year absolutely not
33:19how many times would he say visited I in
33:22total probably four times in total
33:28throughout the the time that I knew him
33:30in fact probably that was the that was
33:39the place that that that if you see what
33:41I mean he was in the house more more
33:44there than other in other places that I
33:48was find him but it was usually because
33:51I was going I was going through and on
33:54somewhere else so it was a it was a day
33:56it was it was that was it you said in
33:59your statement from the palace at no
34:02time did I see witness or suspect any
34:06suspicious behavior yeah
34:07Virginia Roberts legal team says you
34:10could not spend time around Epstein and
34:13not know what was going on
34:15you could not spend time around Epstein
34:19and not know what was going on if you
34:25are somebody like me then people behave
34:33in a subtly different way
34:38you wouldn't first of all I'm not
34:41looking for it that's the thing is if
34:43you're looking for it then you might
34:45have suspected now with the benefit of a
34:49huge amount of hindsight the huge amount
34:52of analysis you look back and you go
34:54well was that really the way that it was
34:58or was it was I looking at it the wrong
35:00way but you don't go into these places
35:02you don't go to stay with people looking
35:05for that you couldn't spend time around
35:08him that was what they said you could
35:10not spend time around him and not know
35:16the other aspect of this is that is that
35:19that I live in a in an institution at
35:23Buckingham Palace which has members of
35:26staff walking around
35:26and all the time and I don't wish to
35:30appear grand but there were a lot of
35:33people who were walking around Geoffrey
35:35Epstein's house as far as I was aware
35:38they were staff they were people that
35:41were working for him or doing things I
35:45as it where I interacted with them if he
35:48weren't already to say good morning good
35:49afternoon but I didn't if you see what I
35:53mean interact with them in a way that
35:54was what are you doing here why are you
35:57here what's going on but you'd notice if
35:59there were hundreds of underage girls in
36:02under you but but sorry you wouldn't
36:04notice if there were hundreds of
36:05underage girls in Geoffrey size wasn't
36:08there not when I was there now he may
36:11have changed his behavior patterns in
36:15order for that not to be obvious to me
36:21so I don't I mean I you're asking me to
36:25speculate on things that I just don't
36:27know about you seem utterly convinced
36:30you're telling the truth would you be
36:32willing to testify or give a statement
36:34under oath if you were asked well I'm
36:36like everybody else and I would have to
36:40take all the legal advice that there was
36:45before I was to do that sort of thing
36:48but if push came to shove and the leaked
36:52legal advice was to do so then I would
36:55be duty-bound did you say because you've
36:57said there are many unanswered questions
36:59everyone affected wants closure you
37:01would help to provide that closure if
37:04there was if in the in the right
37:06circumstances yes I would because I
37:08think there's just as much closure for
37:11me as there is for everybody else and
37:14undoubtedly some very strange and
37:20unpleasant activities have been going on
37:24I'm afraid to say that I'm not the
37:27person who can shed light on it for a
37:30number of reasons one of which is that I
37:32wasn't there long enough so if you go in
37:36for a day two days at a time
37:39it's quite easy I'm led to believe for
37:42those sorts of people to hide their
37:44activities for that period of time and
37:46then carry on when you're not there
37:48Virginia Roberts lawyers legal team say
37:51that they've asked for a legal statement
37:54from you there is an act of FBI
37:56investigation now would you be willing
37:58to provide that again I'm bound by what
38:03my legal advice is legal advisors tell
38:07me Epstein was found dead in prison yes
38:11in August of this year what was your
38:14response on hearing that he'd died a
38:16shock some people think that he didn't
38:20take his own life well there again I'm
38:23not want to be able to answer that
38:25question I believe that centers around
38:29something to do was a bone in his neck
38:32as to whether or not if you commit
38:36suicide that bone breaks or something
38:38but I'm afraid I'm not an expert I have
38:43to take what the coroner says and he has
38:48ruled that it was suicide he's dead
38:52his girlfriend Galen Maxwell your old
38:54friend it was victims say complicit in
38:58his behavior that bit I can't help you
39:01with because I have no idea do you think
39:04that she has questions to answer about
39:06her role in this in the same way that I
39:09have questions to answer in the sense of
39:11what was what was I doing and as I say
39:15that that I was there to to my mind be
39:20honorable and say to him look you've
39:22been convicted it would be incompatible
39:26for me to be seen with you unfortunately
39:31somebody was standing around with a
39:33camera at the time and got a photograph
39:35of us it's one of the very few
39:37photographs there are of us but that was
39:40that was the case if there are questions
39:43that ghilane has to answer that's her
39:45problem I'm afraid I'm not in a position
39:48to be able to comment one way or the
39:51other
39:52lost contact with her it was earlier
39:55this year funny enough in this in the
39:56summer in the spring summer about what
39:59but she was here doing some rally so
40:04even though he had by then been arrested
40:07and was facing charges and traffic no no
40:10no this was this was early spring I
40:12think it was long because when was he
40:14arrested July
40:15no he's before July and that was the
40:18last time yeah because you discuss
40:20obscene at all no no actually funnily
40:22enough no not at all there wasn't
40:25nothing to discuss about him because he
40:27wasn't in the news it wasn't you know it
40:29was just we've moved on I want to talk
40:34about moving on arriving Epstein is dead
40:37yes the women are now being heard quite
40:40rightly how do you move on from this
40:45well it's an interesting way of putting
40:47it
40:49I'm carrying on with what I do I have a
40:55number of things that I have been doing
40:57since 2011 they're pretty well organized
41:03pretty successful and so I'm carrying on
41:06and trying to improve those those things
41:08that I'm already doing
41:09I wonder what effect all this has had on
41:12your close family you've got daughters
41:14of your own it has been what I would
41:18describe as a constant saw in the family
41:23we all knew him and I think that if we
41:30have a conversation about it it's we're
41:32all left with the same thing of what on
41:34earth happened why how did how did he
41:39get to where he was what did he do how
41:41did he do it and so it's it's just a
41:46constant sort of Noor I mean this this
41:49first came out in 2011 and it was just
41:56surprised to to all of us
42:01because the
42:02photographs were published at a separate
42:04time to when I was there and there was a
42:07sort of a question right what that's
42:08going on and as a family we discussed it
42:10and then in 2015 when the allegations
42:13were made in the deposition there was a
42:18sort of there was a sort of the in this
42:21is the immediate family not not wider
42:23family the wider family couldn't be more
42:24supportive but the immediate family it
42:28was more soul is about and we all just
42:32we're lost so it's just as the episode
42:37been damaging to the royal family to
42:39Majesty the Queen I don't believe it's
42:42been damaging to the Queen at all has to
42:46me and it's it's been a constant drip if
42:53you see what I mean in the in the in the
42:54in the background that people want to
42:58want to know if I was in a position to
43:02be able to answer all these questions in
43:04a way that gave sensible answers other
43:07than the ones that I've given that that
43:08gave closure that I'd loved it but I'm
43:10afraid I can't I'm just not in a
43:12position to do sit because I'm just as
43:14much in the dark as many people how do
43:17you reconnect with the public then know
43:21exactly what I'm doing which is to use
43:24and to continue to work with pitch to
43:28continue to work with idea and the
43:29things that I believe strongly in I'm
43:32not somebody who does things in
43:33competition with people oddly I do
43:36things in collaboration with people so I
43:38want people to to work together to come
43:41to as it were a solution to a to a
43:45bigger problem and so I got a number of
43:47people working together particularly in
43:49the education field particularly in and
43:51also in in in areas of of government and
43:56what they are doing so that we're
43:57bringing everybody together so that
43:59we're all pushing in the same direction
44:02an idea now does that we've been going
44:06properly now for two years we've got
44:09three and a half million people who've
44:12got a badge we've got half a million
44:15or just over half a million young people
44:17who were using the the service and I'll
44:23try to think what else we've but it's
44:24it's well it's designed for seven to
44:28fourteen year olds in the United Kingdom
44:29and it turns out it's done from five to
44:3395 around the world so where it's being
44:36done in 100 countries now so we were
44:39slightly on the catch-up for this one I
44:41know we have to bring this to you've
44:46faced questions today on a very very raw
44:49subject there has never been an
44:51interview like this before I wonder what
44:54that tells us about the way the royal
44:58family now confronts these difficult
45:01situations has there been a sea change I
45:04think that the the the the problem that
45:08I'm we face in the 21st century is
45:13social media there is a whole range of
45:18things that you you face now that you
45:22didn't face 25 years ago because it was
45:25just the print media and I think that
45:29that that to some extent there is a
45:35there is a thick skin that you have to
45:38have and again I'm not a confrontation
45:43list myself I I would prefer to be able
45:48to as it were resolve things in a way
45:52that is sensible and so choosing to as
45:59it were get out there and talk about
46:02these things it's almost it's almost a
46:04mental health issue to some extent for
46:06me in the sense that it's been nagging
46:09at my mind for a great many years I know
46:14that I made the wrong judgment and I
46:18made the wrong decision but I made the
46:22wrong decision and the wrong judgment I
46:24believe fundamentally for the right
46:26reasons which is to say to somebody I'm
46:28not going to see you again and in fact
46:30from to that day forth I was never in
46:34contact with him
46:36the subsequent allegations are what I
46:43would describe as surprising shocking
46:45and a distraction but that's I mean that
46:52there are all sorts of things that are
46:53on the internet and and out there in the
46:55public domain that we just sort of go
46:57well yeah but I'm afraid this is it just
47:01never happened you've talked about a
47:03thick skin I wonder if you have any
47:05sense now of guilt regret or shame about
47:10any of your behavior in your friendship
47:12with Epstein
47:13as far as mr. Epstein is concerned it
47:15was the wrong decision to go and see him
47:17in 2010 as far as my association with
47:25him was concerned it had some seriously
47:30beneficial outcomes in areas that have
47:35nothing on bet have nothing to do with
47:37with with whatever describes what we're
47:39talking about today on balance could I
47:44have avoided ever meeting him probably
47:47not and that's because of my friendship
47:50with ghilane it was it was it was
47:52inevitable that we would have come
47:54across each other do I regret the fact
47:59that that that he has quite obviously
48:02conducted himself in a manner and
48:05becoming yes I'm becoming he was a sex
48:09offender yeah I'm sorry I'm being polite
48:11I'm in the sense that he was a sex
48:12offender but no was I right in in in
48:17having him as a friend at the time I'm
48:21bearing in mind this was some years
48:22before he was accused of being a sex
48:25offender I think there was anything
48:29wrong then the problem was the fact that
48:32once he had been convicted
48:36I stayed with him and that's that's
48:38that's the bit that that as it were I
48:43kick myself for on a daily basis because
48:45it was not something that was becoming a
48:48remember the royal family and we try and
48:50uphold the highest standards and
48:54practices and I let the side down some
48:57present this interview has been
48:59exceptionally rare you might not speak
49:01on this subject again is there anything
49:03you feel has been left unsaid that you
49:07would like to say now no I don't think
49:11so I think you've probably dragged out
49:13most of the most of what is required and
49:16I'm truly grateful for the opportunity
49:18that you've given me to to be able to
49:21discuss this with you your highness
49:23thank you thank you very much to you