Full transcript
0:00Amen. Uh you may be seated. Thank you
0:03for standing.
0:05I know there are people trickling in. Um
0:07and that is totally fine. But we're
0:09going to get started so we can manage
0:11the time well.
0:15I will teach this through and we'll have
0:18a short break around uh 12:15 and then
0:22I'll I'll try to finish this this lesson
0:24up as well. At the very end of this
0:26lesson, I would love to uh take some
0:28questions as well. This is kind of one
0:30of those lessons where if if you have
0:33questions, I want to be able to answer
0:34them. I may not have the exact answer,
0:36but I will try my dead level best. And
0:39then I think that questions will also
0:41help people who will watch this later.
0:43Um or your question may help somebody in
0:45the room. So, as I'm teaching today, if
0:47you have a question, just just write it
0:48down and and hold it and and we'll get
0:51to it. Um just a little bit of
0:55background before I I start this lesson.
0:57And I I don't in any way um
1:02try to or uh it is not my desire to try
1:06to validate what I'm going to uh teach
1:09to you today, but I want to uh just give
1:12you a little background of where I'm
1:14coming from on this lesson.
1:17In 2012, me and my wife moved to from
1:22North Carolina in the States to a city
1:25called Loganville, right outside of
1:26Atlanta, Georgia. And we started a
1:29church. We started with about four or
1:32five uh people outside of me and my
1:35wife. Several of those people left after
1:38our first Easter service. They came for
1:39a season to help us and then they went
1:41back to their home church uh which was a
1:43great help. When we moved to Loganville,
1:46we knew no people in the city of
1:50Loganville. We had no connections, no
1:52friends, no family. We had three small
1:55children. And it was um an amazing time,
1:59but it was also a very difficult time. I
2:02had an anticipation of what God would do
2:05uh at at our church. And I had a thought
2:08process of how we would build that
2:10church. And my thought process and the
2:14way of my thinking was solely based
2:17around everything that I had seen in my
2:20lifetime about building church. I come
2:23from a great church. My father pastors a
2:26great church in a little town called
2:28Spring Lake, North Carolina, where I was
2:30raised most of my most of my life in
2:32Spring Lake and raised in that church
2:35for pretty much my entire life. And I
2:37watched that church grow exponentially.
2:40It was a military church right outside
2:41of the military compound called Fort
2:43Bragg. And because of that, that church
2:46had, you know, it would swell and it
2:48would shrink. We would we would grow to
2:50300 and then it would drop to, you know,
2:53150 almost overnight because of the
2:55shifting of military personnel. I have
2:57many, many friends all over the world
2:59that I watched them come into church. We
3:02baptized them, won them to the Lord,
3:04taught them Bible studies, trained them
3:06up, and then the military would send
3:08them to another country, another state,
3:10and uh if you've ever been involved in a
3:13military type church, you understand
3:14this. Uh sustained growth is just not
3:18something that happens at a uh military
3:21type church because the military moves
3:24people around on an average between two
3:26to five years all the time. So people
3:28come and people go and but my father
3:32always we were always a revival church.
3:34We were always baptizing people. We're
3:36always teaching Bible studies. We're
3:38always in a in some kind of revival. We
3:41always had people coming in and and
3:43going out. And so I grew up with this
3:47anticipation. And when I moved to
3:49Loganville, Georgia, I had an
3:51anticipation of what church growth
3:52looked like, how we would grow a church,
3:54what we would do. And very quickly the
3:57Lord began to shift some of my thinking
3:59and some of the processes uh about
4:02church growth and what church growth
4:03looked like. And again we started with a
4:06very small group of people. Our very
4:07first full service was about 20 uh 18 to
4:1120 people. And right now uh the next
4:15Sunday is our 13-year anniversary
4:18service. And our average attendance is
4:20between 850 and 950 on on a Sunday. Now,
4:25thank you so much uh uh
4:29you know, thank you so much for
4:30rejoicing with us. I say that not to try
4:33to point anything out or boast of in any
4:35kind of way. Uh but I say that just so
4:38you understand that we we have been
4:40through a season of church growth and it
4:42has been exciting, but it has been also
4:44very difficult
4:46to grow in such a way very quickly.
4:48There have been many moments in our
4:51church that we have realized that we are
4:53outnumbered.
4:54We're outnumbered. The new people
4:57outweigh the older people. Uh you know
5:00the the new people outweigh the
5:02established people. And so um several
5:06years ago I began to
5:09uh people began to ask me okay what are
5:12you doing? You know what's happening?
5:14And so I went to several conferences and
5:16taught about church growth and kind of
5:18what we're doing at Truth Chapel. Some
5:19different things that are happening. But
5:21today I want to give you uh just a
5:23system that I believe will help with
5:26church growth. It's very simple and I do
5:29not believe that these are all the steps
5:30to church growth. I do not believe that
5:32this is the the ultimate ultimate, but I
5:35do believe that these three principles
5:37will work anywhere and everywhere. and
5:40and and I agree that uh a suburb of
5:44Atlanta, Georgia is very different than
5:47a suburb of Sydney, Australia.
5:50It's very very different. And so what
5:53works at one place may not work at
5:55another place. But this is not
5:56necessarily about what works. This is
5:58principles. This is not just, hey, you
6:00do this and it's going to happen. This
6:02is a principle. And I believe you can
6:03learn and grow and glean from every
6:06principle. And I will back it all up
6:08with the word of God. So first of all,
6:11let me just say this. The reality is
6:12that church growth does not happen by
6:15accident
6:17because church growth is more than
6:19numerical. Uh you can you can have an
6:22influx of people, you can uh call in an
6:24evangelist, you can do a a big event,
6:26you can you know give away toys and food
6:29and you can get a crowd,
6:31>> right?
6:32>> But a crowd is not growth,
6:34>> right? and and you can even have a a
6:38great event where people get Holy Ghost,
6:40get baptized, and have all these great
6:42things happen. But that isn't growth
6:43either. That's an exciting event, and
6:46it's it's good, and we need those
6:48things. But sustained growth has to be
6:52separated in reality from just a moment
6:55of growth.
6:57Because uh I evangelized for six years
7:01and I still travel quite a bit.
7:03Obviously, I'm here today. Um, and what
7:06I have noticed is, especially in my
7:08early years of evangelizing, is I would
7:10visit a church, they would bring me in
7:12to do a Holy Ghost rally, a block party,
7:15whatever it may be, and that church
7:16would have 150 people, and we'd do a big
7:18weekend, and we'd give away bikes, and
7:21we would baptize people in the park, and
7:23we'd pray a hundred people through to
7:24through the Holy Ghost, and we'd have
7:26great revival. I would go back the next
7:28year for the same event, and it was 150
7:31people. Right.
7:34>> And then we would, you know, spend a
7:36bunch of money. They'd pay me a bunch of
7:38money. We'd sing. I'd get teams
7:39together. We'd baptize people. We'd get
7:41Bible studies. We'd get connection
7:42cards. And we'd give away stuff. And
7:44we'd have a great event. And then I
7:46would come back the next year be 150
7:48people.
7:51And so that is event driven church. It's
7:53not growth. be, you know, because there
7:56was the people that I would see get
7:58baptized, the people that I would see
7:59get the Holy Ghost, the people that I
8:01would see get included in these moments
8:04from year to year, they were not there.
8:08>> Just the same people doing the same
8:10thing. Very very excited to repeat
8:13everything that they were doing, you
8:16know, and and and it was just such an
8:17excitement. And I do believe this that
8:20we have become enamored with a number
8:23and and because we're so infatuated with
8:25a number, it's like, man, we had this
8:27many people and we had this many and we
8:30had this many people get the Holy Ghost.
8:31This many and and it's exciting and we
8:34all have a great time and we slap hands
8:36and we're like, man, we did so good. But
8:38if me and you were in the woods and we
8:40saw a baby about to be eaten by wolves
8:42and we saved the baby, we shued the
8:46wolves away and we grabbed the baby and
8:47said, "Man, we we we did a great thing.
8:49We saved this baby and we're just so
8:51excited that we saved the baby." And
8:53then we took the baby and we set it up
8:55on a branch of a tree and just left and
8:58was like, "Man,
9:00man, we're so good. We really saved that
9:03baby." the the wolfs may not eat the
9:06baby, but the baby's not going to
9:08survive,
9:10>> right? Because when when we talk about
9:13church growth, there has to be a system
9:15of disciplehip,
9:17>> inclusion,
9:19we have to find a way to get people
9:20assimilated.
9:22And we do really good at the events, but
9:26we struggle with the retention.
9:29And this is something that the Lord has
9:31dealt with me about at Truth Chapel and
9:34creating a way to make sure that every
9:38event we do, we have wins and losses. We
9:41have goals and things that we want to
9:43achieve. But the ultimate thing is how
9:45do we keep people around
9:48long enough to see real true change in
9:52their life and disciplehip in them?
9:55moving them from a visitor to an
9:59attendee to a member to a fully
10:03functioning minister in the church, a
10:05volunteer on some level. And so today I
10:08want to talk about the three S's of
10:11church growth. Three S's of church
10:13growth. And I just want to give them to
10:15you very quickly. Spirit,
10:19space, and systems.
10:23Spirit is the breath of growth.
10:28Space is the capacity for growth.
10:32And systems are the framework for
10:34growth. And so
10:38I'll just say this in the onset is that
10:401 Corinthians 3 and 6 tells us that Paul
10:45planted,
10:47Apollos watered,
10:50but God gave the increase. So God will
10:54give an increase but there must be
10:57planting and watering before the
10:59increase.
11:00God did not give the increase and then
11:02Paul watered the increase and and
11:04Apollos, you know, did his thing with
11:06the increase and these people, but it's
11:09it's we they did something first and
11:12then God gave an increase at the end of
11:15that thing that they did. God wants to
11:17team up with you,
11:20>> but he's not going to do it all himself.
11:22But he but God will team up with you if
11:25if you have a plan and a process. Let me
11:27say this about God. God is very
11:30detailed.
11:31>> God does not shoot from the hip and he's
11:34not making this up as he goes. God is a
11:37God of organization
11:39and he loves a good plan. And I'll prove
11:42this to you. When the Bible talks about
11:44hell, the Bible says this. When hell has
11:48really no dimensions outside of this
11:50statement in the word of God, hell hath
11:52enlarged herself without measure. So
11:56hell has no defining borders. It's just
11:59no measure. But when you talk about
12:01heaven, 1500 miles high, 1500 miles
12:06wide, 12 foundations, and each
12:08foundation is the name of an apostle. 12
12:10gates. Each gate is a singular pearl.
12:12Are you seeing a pattern here? Hell has
12:15no measurements. Heaven specific
12:18measurements.
12:19>> Specific. 1500 miles high, 1500 miles
12:22wide. Specific. Because God is specific.
12:26When he tells Noah, "No, I want you to
12:28build an ark. Build me a boat for the
12:30saving of humanity." He doesn't say,
12:32"Just build me a big box." But he gives
12:33him details on how to build it, what to
12:36build it out of, pitch it on the inside,
12:37pitch it on the outside, one door, one
12:39window, these kind of animals, this many
12:42animals, this process, this is how it
12:44goes.
12:46And you see that all through the word of
12:47God. Even from Genesis, even from
12:50Genesis chapter 1, God is creating and
12:53everything he creates is in process of
12:56what he will create next.
12:58>> When God makes something on day one,
13:00it's so that what he makes on day two
13:02can be provided by what he made on day
13:03one. And what he makes on day three is
13:06provided by what he made on day two and
13:07day one. And what he makes on day four
13:09is provision for what happens on day
13:11three, day two, day one. God create and
13:13by the time God gets to the end and he
13:15makes man, the whole world is prepared
13:18for man to dwell here.
13:21>> God is a God of process. And then we
13:24say, "Lord, we want church growth
13:27with no details.
13:29Lord, just give us growth." But God
13:31wants to team up with you and the plan
13:34that you have in place. And so these are
13:37three areas that leaders must focus on
13:41for growth. spirit, space and systems.
13:45And I will begin today with the very
13:47first one. The spirit, the breath
13:51of growth.
13:53The spiritual atmosphere of a church is
13:57its greatest calling card.
14:01>> And no system can outweigh spirit.
14:05>> If the spirit is right, people will
14:07come.
14:09>> Yes.
14:10>> Amen. That's why we have great churches
14:12that are that have great supernatural
14:14moves of God and they don't even have to
14:17do outreach. People just show up.
14:19>> People just visit. They they they hear
14:21about it from a friend. They they they
14:23they see it on, you know, Instagram,
14:26whatever it may be, and they want to be
14:27a part of something that is real. We
14:29cannot be silent about the spirit that
14:32we have in our churches. We need
14:35supernatural Holy Ghost experience every
14:40single time we come together.
14:44We We need to sing till something
14:46happens. We need to preach till
14:48something happens. Whatever you preach,
14:50you will get. If you preach miracles,
14:51you're going to get miracles. If you
14:53preach Holy Ghost, going to get Holy
14:54Ghost. If you preach tithing, you're
14:56going to have tithers. If you
14:58>> Amen.
14:59>> Amen.
14:59>> If you preach ministry, you're going to
15:01have ministry. Whatever you preach,
15:03you're going to get.
15:05>> And we cannot be ashamed that we have
15:08something in our churches that churches
15:10in our area do not have.
15:13>> They do not have it. They are getting a
15:15TED talk on a Sunday about how they can
15:19make their lives better by being a
15:22better person.
15:25And our churches should not be preaching
15:28behavior modification.
15:30We do not preach behavior modification.
15:33We preach transformation.
15:36>> Amen. God is not trying to make you a
15:40better you. God want God wants to make
15:42you a new you.
15:44>> Not a better version of you. No,
15:46transformed. All things have passed
15:47away. Behold, all things have become
15:49new. It's a new you. It's not a better
15:52version of you.
15:54>> A new life, a new walk, a new talk, a a
15:57new way of living, a new way of
15:58orchestrating your life. This is what we
16:00must be preaching. This the spirit of a
16:03church is really where the rubber meets
16:06the road.
16:08Yes. Our spirit in our services. Uh
16:12creating space for the Holy Ghost to
16:15move. Desiring the Lord to do something
16:18unexplainable. Yes, you need to have a
16:20service flow. Yes, you need to have a
16:22service plan. God loves a good plan and
16:25he will interrupt your plan.
16:28Somebody said, "Well, Pastor Chavis,
16:29could you teach a lesson on how to get
16:31outside the box?" I said, "Absolutely. I
16:32would love to teach a message on how to
16:34get your services out of the box."
16:36Lesson number one, get a box.
16:44>> How in the world can you say, "Lord,
16:45help us get outside of our box." If you
16:47don't have a box, you have no defined
16:49borders here. Matter of fact, you're
16:51already outside the box. You're so far
16:53outside the box that God doesn't even
16:55know how to get you back in one.
16:57But if you'll get a box, God will get
16:59you get outside the box. If you'll have
17:01a plan, God will help you with that
17:03plan.
17:05>> We pray every Sunday morning at Truth
17:07Chapel, Lord, we have planned this week.
17:08We have prepared. We have created a
17:10system of this service, but Lord, we are
17:13giving it all over to you and whatever
17:15you want to do, we're totally fine with
17:17it. Mess up our plan. We We have a plan
17:20to sing three songs, but if we only get
17:22to one, totally fine. I've been praying
17:25and seeking and studying and and getting
17:27my ser sermon ready, but if I don't make
17:29it to my sermon, totally fine. This is
17:32your service. It's not ours. This is
17:34what you want to do. If you want to move
17:37in this place and wreck us all, you have
17:40total freedom to do that.
17:42But we didn't show up five minutes
17:44before service and th willy-nilly throw
17:46it all together
17:48>> because I don't want God to move in
17:50spite of me. I want him to team up with
17:53me.
17:55>> Amen.
17:56>> And and I've been in a lot of services
17:57where God moved
18:00in spite of us. Like it was
18:03>> we we we just threw this thing together
18:05and God decided to move because God's
18:07going to have his way.
18:09>> But I've also been a part of things that
18:11God teamed up with us. And God honored
18:15our preparation with his presence.
18:19God honors the prepared and not only the
18:23spirit of the Holy Ghost and the spirit
18:26of supernatural miracles, signs and
18:28wonders, but a system and a spirit of
18:31love and inclusivity and unity in the
18:34church. This is what Jesus would tell
18:36his disciples. They will know
18:39that you are mine when they see how you
18:43love one another. That is a culture that
18:47you have to develop in your church.
18:49Unity is not normative.
18:54>> I'll say it one more time. Unity is not
18:56normative.
18:58Unity takes time. Unity has to be fought
19:02for. We have to fight for unity. We have
19:06to preach unity. We have to remind
19:08people about unity. We have to have
19:10unity services and uni unity teaching.
19:13Unity is something that we fight to
19:16have,
19:17>> especially
19:19if it's a a building like this building
19:21today where you have diversity of
19:23cultures, ethnicities, colors,
19:26backgrounds, age, demographics.
19:30>> We are not the same today.
19:32>> How you were raised is completely
19:34different than how I was raised. Where
19:36you're from is far removed from where
19:38I'm from. But we are still in one
19:41church, under one body, under one
19:43spirit. And the spirit that we cultivate
19:47is a spirit of unity. It doesn't matter
19:49where you're from. I'm a Christian
19:51first.
19:53>> Doesn't matter what my political stance
19:55is. It does not come before my walk with
19:58God and my belief in the word of God. I
20:00am biblical before I am anything else.
20:05And that spirit when people walk into a
20:07room where that spirit is moving,
20:10they will want to be a part of that.
20:12They will desire to be a part of that.
20:14The supernatural spirit of the
20:16miraculous dimension that only God can
20:19bring to a church. This is the edge that
20:23we have over every church in our
20:26community. We have the Holy Ghost.
20:30>> We preach the Holy Ghost. We believe in
20:33the moving of the spirit. We believe
20:36that God can still raise the dead, open
20:38the blinded eyes. We believe that God
20:41can change the drug addict. We believe
20:43that God can put marriages back together
20:46in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye.
20:49We believe that God can heal the lame
20:51and save the sick. We still believe
20:54that.
20:56Several years ago, we did a um a
21:00promotion in our city and it was very
21:02simple. I just sat behind my desk and we
21:04shot a video and we promoted it. Spent
21:06several thousand dollars to promote this
21:08this video across all of our social
21:11media platforms and we we we pushed it.
21:13And the video was simple. And the video
21:15said, um, if you're looking for a church
21:19that still believes in the power of the
21:21Holy Ghost, that still believes that God
21:24can do miracles, signs, and wonders, if
21:27you're looking for a church where the
21:29spirit of God is moving every single
21:31service, Truth Chapel is your church.
21:34That's right.
21:35>> And you would, it would blow your mind
21:37how many people responded to that ad
21:39that we put out and came to our church
21:42and said, "We've been looking for a
21:43church that still believes in this. I
21:45love my church that I'm at, but they
21:47don't talk about this anymore.
21:51It's just a self-help program. It's, you
21:52know, four steps to being a better you.
21:5612 12 steps, you know, to, you know,
21:58make your marriage better. It's always
22:01it's just there's all practicality which
22:03I love but no spirituality.
22:06>> Amen. But we need orthodoxy and
22:08orthopraxy together. When Paul writes in
22:11the New Testament, he writes in two
22:12different ways. He writes in orthodoxy
22:14and orthopraxy. Right doctrine, right
22:16practice, right believing and right
22:19behavior. He writes in practicality and
22:22spirituality. Paul begins by saying this
22:25is what we believe. He ends by saying
22:28this is how we behave. There is a
22:30spiritual application and a practical
22:32application. And we are living in a
22:34church world that only wants to preach
22:36the practical application as if that can
22:39help you. It's great. It's wonderful.
22:41Let's let's do that. But without the
22:43spiritual, the practical cannot be it
22:47can't even work. You need God to change
22:49your life. You need God to come off
22:51drugs. You need God to put your marriage
22:54back together. You need God. You have to
22:56have the spirit of the Lord at work in
22:59your church.
23:01>> And so growth begins in the spirit. And
23:05there is no strategy that can replace
23:08the presence of God.
23:11>> There's no program.
23:14There's you can go to a million church
23:17growth programs. You can get on Chad GPT
23:21and download every single solitary
23:24church growth procedure that there ever
23:26existed. But if God ain't in it,
23:29>> it's not going to work.
23:31>> You can get a crowd.
23:33>> But will you have a church?
23:36>> Yeah.
23:38The practical application of this is
23:40that our leaders must be spiritfilled,
23:43prayerful, and we must cultivate hunger.
23:49Let me say that again. As leaders, we
23:53must be the ones that cultivate hunger.
23:58>> Hunger is cultivated by the leadership.
24:01If you are not hungry for a move of God,
24:04what makes you think your church is
24:06going to be hungry for a move of God?
24:07>> Yes. If you are not designing strategy
24:11and programs that are developing
24:13spiritual intuition in your church, then
24:17how's it going to happen?
24:19Who's calling the prayer meeting? Who's
24:22asking the church to fast? Who's
24:24preaching and teaching on spiritual
24:26hunger?
24:28We are the ones who develop hunger among
24:32the people.
24:34>> We develop that hunger. We promote that
24:37hunger. If you get up and you just let
24:40people do what they're going to do,
24:42they're not going to be hungry,
24:44>> but you develop hunger. It's like coming
24:46in the house and you may not even be
24:48thinking about food, but mama's in the
24:50kitchen cooking and you get a whiff of
24:53something. I don't know if you guys have
24:55ever smelled southern bacon cooking,
24:58but it is
25:00dectable.
25:02It is life-changing.
25:04it it'll make whatever you've been
25:06thinking about, you stop thinking about
25:08it.
25:09And by the time it is served,
25:13you're ready.
25:15And many of us have experienced this,
25:16not even being hungry, but walking into
25:18a restaurant and getting a smell of
25:21something that's cooking and being like,
25:22man, you know, I wasn't even hungry, but
25:24I could eat. Because that is the
25:27cultivation of hunger. And if your
25:30church can't smell something cooking
25:32>> that the chef has been working on, you
25:36can't cultivate hunger.
25:38>> And so if we're going to have the spirit
25:40of God moving in our churches, we have
25:42to have the spirit of God moving in us.
25:44>> Are you praying? Are you seeking? What
25:46do you got cooking?
25:48Amen. What What are you in the kitchen
25:51working up so that the church will get
25:53something before you ever reach the pull
25:55pit? There's something in the atmosphere
25:57that is moving. There is a a sense of
26:00something that say, you know what, I
26:01wasn't even thinking about this. I I
26:02I've had a long day at work and this
26:04week was awful. But when I came in the
26:06house of the Lord, there was something
26:07moving. And you know what? I just want
26:08to see a move of God.
26:12Amen. And pastors and leaders, it's okay
26:14just to stop everything and say, you
26:16know what? We're going to pray.
26:18>> You know what? We're going to You know
26:19what? We we have a plan, but I feel the
26:21Holy Ghost moving. Your church needs to
26:24understand that there is a diet of the
26:26spiritual that they can tap into.
26:30And when that happens in a church,
26:34the doors will open
26:35>> and people will come because people are
26:39desiring
26:41something real.
26:44>> Yes, we are desire the the world is
26:47desiring something that they can feel.
26:51We've all experienced this. People come
26:53to our church and they say, "You know
26:54what? I don't really understand
26:55everything that's going on here, but
26:56man, I feel something.
26:58>> I've never felt this before.
27:01>> I've been in church my whole life and
27:02I've never felt this. I' I've been a
27:06part of this denomination or that
27:07denomination or these group of people,
27:09but I've never felt what I feel." That's
27:13the spirit.
27:14>> And the Bible says that the spirit will
27:17draw. Yes.
27:19>> And so if the spirit's moving at your
27:21church, it'll draw people. It will draw
27:24they they may not even know. Our our
27:27church building is right off a four-lane
27:29highway and it's two lanes going this
27:31way, two lanes coming that way. And
27:33every few Sundays, we will have a person
27:36in our first-time guest reception where
27:39I meet every first-time guest after
27:41every service that we have who will say,
27:44"I was just driving by
27:48and I felt to just come and see what's
27:50going on here. I was just driving by and
27:54you know what the word was for me today.
27:58I've been looking for a church.
28:01I'm a part of a church over here, but
28:03I've been looking for a church that
28:05still preaches the Bible,
28:08>> that still believes in miracles, signs,
28:10and wonders.
28:12There is a group of people in your city
28:15right now. And the only thing that makes
28:19you different than every church around
28:22you is that you still believe the Holy
28:25Ghost is moving.
28:26>> That's it. If you want to get into that
28:29world where you're trying to compete
28:31with these churches that have unlimited
28:33resources,
28:36thousands of people every Sunday, and
28:38you're going to try to get in there and
28:40compete with them, good luck.
28:45I'm not trying to compete with anybody.
28:47What I'm trying to do is have a church
28:49that's full of the spirit and the spirit
28:52is moving consistently.
28:56We do not have regular church.
29:01Let me say that again.
29:04My team would stand here today on this
29:06pull pit and
29:08amen me. Every service I tell them,
29:13this is not regular church. This camp
29:16meeting. Well, Pastor Chavis, this is a
29:18regular Sunday. Nope. It's camp meeting.
29:21>> We are going to lose our minds today.
29:24We are going to have church today. God
29:26is going to move today. The end times
29:30are upon us. We cannot afford to have a
29:33regular old regular old church service,
29:36sing our three songs, take up an
29:38offering, let the preacher preach, and
29:40go on home. No. Somebody's got to be
29:43changed today. Somebody's got to be made
29:45new today. Somebody's got to feel
29:47something today that they've never felt
29:49before. And we have to cultivate that
29:52spirit.
29:54>> Yes. God has never accidentally showed
29:57up anywhere.
29:59>> There are two words that do not exist in
30:02the vocabulary of God and that is oops
30:05and wow.
30:10Yeah. Cuz you ain't never going to
30:12surprise God. Right?
30:15>> He's never shown up anywhere
30:16accidentally. If his manifest glory
30:21shows up at your church, it'll be
30:23because you invited it to show up.
30:26>> There was a place prepared with prayer
30:30and fasting and willingness to say,
30:32"Lord, whatever you want to do in this
30:36church service, do it. Lord, this is
30:38your house. This is your church service.
30:40We give it to you. It is all yours.
30:45Yes.
30:46>> If you're not hungry,
30:48how do you expect your congregation to
30:50be hungry? Number two,
30:54space.
30:55Space is the capacity for growth.
31:01The physical
31:03and mental capacity to hold and serve
31:08more people. Let me deal with the
31:10physical first.
31:13There used to be a rule that the rule
31:16was 8020.
31:18And the 8020 rule meant that once your
31:22church reached about 80% capacity, you
31:26are going to lose about 20%
31:29over a period of time because people do
31:32not like coming to a packed church. Let
31:36me help you with this. Saints of God,
31:40established people of God, they love
31:43coming to a packed church
31:46>> because it is exciting.
31:48>> We're all crammed in there and we're
31:50losing our minds together and it just
31:52feels so good.
31:55>> Can I get an amen?
31:57it.
31:57>> Listen, this building will probably be
31:59packed tonight and it's going to there's
32:01going to be an excitement and an energy
32:04that only a crowd can bring. And we're
32:07going to be piled in here and people are
32:10going to be standing side by side. And
32:12for us that love it, we're going to love
32:14it. But if a brand new person comes to
32:18your church next Sunday
32:21and they can't find a place to park and
32:24they got to stand next to 17 people that
32:27they've never met in their life,
32:32they're not coming back.
32:36Now, let me just talk about the physical
32:39portion of space.
32:42This is not spiritual.
32:46So, there's no way to pray,
32:49seek God, or fast for more space.
32:54If it's a spirit issue, man, let's fast.
32:56Let's pray. If it's a spirit issue, man,
32:58let's seek God. Let's let's, you know,
33:00we we need God to move in the spirit.
33:03But I I've never read anybody praying
33:05for their 20,000 foot building and the
33:09next morning it'd be 30,000 foot.
33:13I've never seen nobody go in their
33:14auditorium and lay hands on the walls
33:15and say, "Lord, expand this building."
33:19>> And then the next Sunday you came and
33:21there was another 150 seats because this
33:24is not a this is not a spiritual warfare
33:26issue. This is a creativity issue.
33:30We have to become more creative with our
33:33space.
33:35We have to get in our minds that we as
33:39saints are church people who are church
33:42people. We have a tendency to love it
33:46being crowded. But the new person has no
33:50way
33:52to understand what that feels like.
33:55Maybe one day they'll get there. But
33:58their first Sunday there, their first
34:00month of coming, they're going to be
34:02wondering, "Where is their space for me?
34:07My kids are crammed in the Sunday school
34:08classes. I'm waiting in line to use the
34:11restroom. There's no toilet paper
34:15cuz you don't have a toilet paper pastor
34:16yet.
34:19There's no parking spaces. I got to
34:20drive around two or three times. had to
34:22park two football fields away or rugby
34:25fields away, whatever it is. H had to
34:28park so far away. Had to walk in the
34:31rain to get to the church. And you know,
34:34I really want to be here, but I don't
34:36really feel like I'm really needed. And
34:39so people will fluctuate.
34:42They'll fluctuate.
34:44When I sat down with my team before we
34:47went to two services at Truth Chapel, uh
34:51I have a lot of um you know
34:53wellestablished people in my church and
34:56when I started talking about two
34:57services uh they were not happy. you
35:00know, they they they were not on board
35:02that, you know, they they had questions
35:05and they had responses to my desire to
35:08go to two service and their responses
35:09were stuff like this, like, well, what
35:12about the unity of the church?
35:15You know, I'm, you know, what if I never
35:17see my friends, you know, and you know,
35:18what if we pick different services and
35:20and you know what, oh, you know, I I
35:22just want us all to be together. You
35:23know, we're the body of Christ. We need
35:25to all be together.
35:27All valid points.
35:31But it wasn't helping us to have these
35:34issues.
35:36And so I just said, I said, "You know
35:38what? In order to go to two services,
35:41you are going to have to become
35:42uncomfortable.
35:45You're going to have to become
35:46uncomfortable because we have a space
35:48issue. And we can double our space and
35:52not spend a dime.
35:56All we have to do is grow our teams.
36:01This was a big one
36:03>> because I don't know if you know this or
36:04not, the church is full of gatekeepers
36:10>> who want to keep their team their team.
36:14And they don't want to give anybody else
36:16any kind of leadership ability to take
36:18away from their leadership ability.
36:21>> And you know, they got their little
36:22crew, their little click, and that's who
36:24they're going to use. And that's what
36:25it's going to be. But I said, "No, the
36:27greeters are going to have to double.
36:29The ushers are going to have to double.
36:31The parking team's going to have to
36:32double. The praise team's going to have
36:34to double. We're going to have to double
36:36in size in our volunteer."
36:39>> No.
36:41Well, well, well, well, well, well. What
36:43happens if so and so feels like they're
36:46not being used as much anymore? Well,
36:49then so and so can serve two services in
36:51a row.
36:53They can be what we call at Truth Chapel
36:55a super server.
36:58When we finally went to two services, I
37:00talked them into it. Went to two
37:01services. I I it took me six months to
37:05get the team to understand and grow the
37:07teams and develop new people and put new
37:09leaders in place. And we finally went to
37:11two services. For the first month, there
37:13was no growth. We actually dipped in our
37:16Sunday service attendance. And there
37:18were people going
37:21I mean I don't want to say I told you
37:23so.
37:26But I told him I said listen this is
37:28brand new.
37:31Let's see what happens. Cuz I had
37:33already showed him the numbers and the
37:34numbers were our building set 300
37:37comfortable and we were running up on an
37:39average of about 3:15 to 325 on Sundays.
37:42So most of my team never took a seat on
37:44Sunday. They stood for all Sunday
37:47service and we were crampacked and we
37:50had terrible trouble with our parking.
37:54Cops were caught on us a numerous number
37:57of times because we were parked in front
37:59of somebody's building or somebody's
38:01parking lot and they were mad and the
38:02cops show up. Hey man, I you know I just
38:04want to talk to the pastor. Yeah, we
38:06need to move these cars right here. And
38:08we have been dealing with this for
38:10several years. And so when we went to
38:13two services that spread that out a
38:16little bit and it it it opened up some
38:18new channels and but I showed our team I
38:21said listen we're running a we're
38:22averaging when we have a big service
38:24we'll have like 310 and then the next
38:27Sunday we'll have 250
38:30and then the next Sunday 275 and the
38:32next Sunday 300 and then the next Sunday
38:35200 flat and then 225 and then 250. I
38:38said, "Why do you think the numbers are
38:40so crazy?" Because people are coming and
38:43there's nowhere for them to park.
38:44There's nowhere for them to sit. And so
38:47they they're picking their Sundays that
38:49they come because they don't want to
38:51deal with this every Sunday. So we went
38:53to two services. We dipped for about a
38:55month and a half. And then we started
38:57growing and growing and growing. when we
39:00started averaging around 450 in that
39:03building without spending a dime,
39:06without spending any money, 450
39:09averaging in that building. I sat the
39:12team down and said, "How y'all feel
39:14about three services?"
39:18And they said, "We'll fire you." I said,
39:21"Well, you can't fire me, but I I I I
39:23see what you're saying."
39:27Thank God during that time, another
39:29property opened up for us and God
39:31allowed us to buy our own piece of
39:34property of a building that set 500. And
39:38so the church was excited. I'm telling
39:40you, people were pumped up. We It took
39:42us a long time. It happened during CO.
39:44We finally moved in in 2021. Finally got
39:46in the building. The only problem was is
39:49during CO, we were barely meeting. We
39:51were having three services during CO so
39:52we could meet the standards. uh you
39:54know, make sure we weren't getting in
39:55trouble with anybody. And the problem
39:57was is during COVID, we grew.
40:01So when we finally all come back
40:03together in the room that said 500,
40:05we're packed.
40:08And the first Sunday, the the first
40:10staff meeting after our first Sunday in
40:12the new building, I said, "How you guys
40:13feel about going to two services?"
40:16And a couple people wanted to fight me
40:19physically,
40:22but you know, they didn't say it out
40:23loud. But I could just see it in their
40:24eyes want to fight me.
40:27So we went a year like that. Packed out.
40:30Just packed to the gill. Space pro. Kids
40:34in Sunday schools packed out. Parking
40:36lot full. Parking people on the ball
40:38field. Parking people in the grass,
40:39which is great if the weather's fine,
40:40but if it's raining, people are walking
40:42through the mud. It's a big issue. We
40:43bought golf carts and we're trying to
40:45get people in and get get people out and
40:47our teams are stressed out. And so I
40:49finally said, "Listen, guys, let me show
40:51you the numbers. Can I show you the
40:52numbers again? We We'll have a service
40:55of about 550.
40:57Then we have a service of 400 and then
40:59425, 450, 500, 395,
41:05450. I said, "Guys, we we are growing
41:09and we're not stewarding our growth."
41:12>> Well, Pastor Davis, this is so fun.
41:14We're all together. We're all here in
41:16the room. What do we need to do? I said,
41:17"Listen, souls are more important than
41:22your comfort level.
41:25>> This city is more important than your
41:28comfort level." Because space, let me
41:29just help you. Space is a problem of
41:33comfortability.
41:35>> Well, I just don't know if our church
41:37could do that. I don't know if our team
41:38would do that. I just don't It's just
41:40not our culture. That's okay. Cultures
41:42can change.
41:44>> Hallelujah.
41:46So I said, I tell you what, at the
41:49beginning of 2023,
41:52let's have a month of two services
41:55and just see what the Lord will do. They
41:57agreed to one month.
42:00Our first service, our average went up
42:03from 500 to 600. The first service we
42:07grew by a hundred people. Of course, my
42:10team said that. They said, "Oh, Pastor
42:11Chavis, we grew by a hundred people in
42:14one week." I said, "We didn't grow.
42:17These people have already been here."
42:18>> They say, "Men been coming."
42:20>> Right.
42:22>> Yeah. So now 2025, our average service
42:26in a building that seats 500, our
42:28average attendance is between 850 and
42:30950. We're packed out two services in a
42:33row. And I got my team and I'm saying,
42:36"How y'all feel about three services?
42:38[Applause]
42:40And the only thing we're doing is
42:42utilizing space. We have a great spirit
42:45in our church. It's a spirit of
42:46miracles, signs, and wonders. It's a
42:48spirit of the Holy Ghost. It's a spirit
42:50of culture unity. It's a culture. It is
42:53a culture of inclusivity. It's a great
42:57community. We have all of that covered.
42:59But we have to deal with the space
43:01issue. And the three service issue is
43:04moving beyond the physicality of the
43:06building, but now it's moving into the
43:08spiritual of the people's hearts that
43:12want to create space for new people.
43:15>> You have to give your seat up.
43:17>> You may have to come to a service that
43:18you don't want to come to. You may have
43:20to change, you know, the service that
43:22you attend. Well, this is my service.
43:24No, it's not. It's a service. It's not
43:26your service.
43:28>> This is how I operate. No, we got to
43:30have to move around a little bit. I
43:31understand. Well, Pastor Chavis, you
43:33know, how are we going to get more
43:34people involved? We got to stop being
43:36gatekeepers, create positions. Well,
43:39right now, if I added 10 new people to
43:41my team, I don't know what they would
43:42do. That's fine. Just let them be on the
43:44team. Put them on the schedule. Let them
43:46just stand.
43:48Well, they don't have anything to do.
43:49They don't know that.
43:53>> They don't know they have nothing to do.
43:55Make up a job.
43:57>> Just make Why? Because we're creating
43:58space
43:59>> now. how we're creating space not just
44:01in the physical way, but we're creating
44:03space in the spiritual way. Because if
44:06you don't create space in your mind
44:08first, you don't create space in your
44:10spirit first, who cares how much space
44:12you have in the room.
44:13>> Cuz I know churches that have a lot of
44:15great space, physical space, but they
44:17have no spiritual space for people.
44:21>> Space is more than just the physical. It
44:24is also the spiritual. We are creating
44:28and developing ways to grow our church
44:32outside of the mindset of what it looked
44:36like in the past. Space is not just a
44:39spiritual battle. It's a creativity
44:41battle, but it al also a spiritual
44:43battle. And leaders must see space not
44:46as a limitation, but as an opportunity
44:50>> to innovate.
44:52What could you do right now at your
44:54church innovatively that could help you
44:57with your space? And I'm going to close
44:59with this. We're going to take a short
45:00break and we're going to get back to
45:01this very quickly.
45:03I was just at a recently at at a friend
45:05of mine's church and I I was there for
45:07an event. I was actually there for a
45:08funeral and I I I walked in and me and
45:11my family were there and we're looking
45:13around. Great great building. I was
45:15talking to uh one of the leaders at the
45:16church and he said, "Yeah, man. Sundays
45:18are packed. you know, we seat 350 and
45:20we're, you know, we're averaging 300,
45:22you know, to 325 and we're packed. And
45:24he said, but let me show you this. He
45:25said, you know, we're knocking out this
45:26wall and come on back here. Let me show
45:28you this. And he took me back to and
45:29man, they've spent hundreds of thousands
45:31on this brand new lobby. It's all, man,
45:33I'm telling you, when I tell you this
45:34church is topnotch, they are topn
45:36everything is spectacular. It looks so
45:39good. And he he walked me back in the
45:41building and I said, "Well, how far back
45:43is the sanctuary going to go?" And he
45:44said, "Well, we're knocking this wall
45:46out and we're moving the wall." This is
45:47a true story. He said, "We're moving the
45:49wall uh to come here. We're moving the
45:52wall to right here."
45:56I said, "One, two, three, four, five,
45:59six." I said, "You're moving the wall
46:01six paces?" He said, "Yeah." I said,
46:04"So, you've done all this work to move
46:06this wall back six p?" He said, "Yeah,
46:08we're going to get a hundred more
46:09seats."
46:12My mind is rolling.
46:14I say, "Man, that's I said, how much all
46:17it's going to cost you?" Oh man, out the
46:19door turn key. We're going to spend
46:21about $800,000.
46:25My spirit said,
46:27"For six paces,
46:31number one, your whole church is in
46:33disarray because of this massive
46:34construction process that's been taken
46:36over a year now.
46:38You've done all this work. You've moved
46:39all this stuff around. For six paces of
46:42space, you're going to get a hundred
46:44more seats." Well, guess what? Your
46:45church is already a hundred more. You
46:47just don't know it yet. The first Sunday
46:48that you have when you get this all
46:50done, grand opening, you're going to cut
46:51the ribbon and it's going to be full and
46:53you're going to be wondering why did we
46:55just do all that work for nothing.
46:57>> Those hundred people are literally
46:59already there. No one new is coming.
47:01Just the regular people going to come
47:02and going to fill the building up and
47:04you're going to be excited and not
47:05realizing that is a $800,000 ticket
47:08attached to that little bit of space.
47:12And I said, man, I said, I tell you
47:14what, I can tell you how you can get 350
47:18seats next Sunday for zero dollars.
47:23He said, man, are you serious? I said,
47:26absolutely, bro. Next Sunday, 350 brand
47:30new seats, not spend a dime. He said,
47:34I'd love to hear that. I said, have two
47:36services.
47:39That's it. He said, "Oh." He said, "Oh,
47:42oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. I see what
47:44you're saying." He said, "Oh, that
47:45wouldn't work here. Our people aren't
47:47like that."
47:50Well,
47:52that that's a tough mountain to climb.
47:55>> Our people aren't like that. And most of
47:58us will not operate in the space with
48:02initiative and with creativity because
48:04we're scared that our people aren't like
48:07that.
48:10And it's okay if your people don't like
48:12it. It's fine. They will get used to it.
48:18>> Let them see the church grow. Let them
48:21see new families coming in. Let them see
48:23the outpouring of the Holy Ghost in a
48:25new and fresh way. Listen, as leaders,
48:28we have to be okay stretching our
48:31saints. Right?
48:33>> If we sit back and wait for them, they
48:37will never stretch themselves.
48:39>> They need leaders who are brave enough
48:41to say, "Hey guys, we've been doing it
48:42this way for the last 20 years, but
48:43tomorrow we're doing it another way."
48:45Well, I don't know if I like that.
48:46That's okay. You don't have to like it.
48:48Just get on board. Get behind the
48:50vision. I don't need nobody shooting no
48:52streamers and throwing a party. You may
48:54not like it, but it's okay. Just get on
48:56board. You don't have to like it to obey
48:58it.
49:00Just get on board. get behind the vision
49:02and let's see what God will do in our
49:04churches when we stretch our saints.
49:08Amen. Pastor, I don't know how much time
49:11I have. I I think we're done at 1:00,
49:13correct?
49:15>> Okay, just a few minutes at that. We're
49:17going to take a very very short break. I
49:19know all of you just had tea and coffee
49:20and drink. So, we're going to take five
49:22is five minutes good. Take a short five
49:24minute break. We're going to come back.
49:25I'm going to finish this and take some Q
49:27and A. Amen. God bless you. take take a
49:30few minutes. Um I see some people
49:32already moving around so I know some
49:34people had to go. Amen. God bless you.