Partnerships that Matter

0:10Welcome to Humanitarian Frontiers on the

0:12Edge.

0:13This is a place to learn about the art

0:14of the possible using technology in some

0:17of the most difficult environments in

0:18the world, [music] assisting people in

0:20their most vulnerable time.

0:22Want to learn more?

0:23Let's dive in.

0:34>> [music]

0:42>> Hi everybody and welcome back to another

0:43episode of Humanitarian Frontiers on the

0:46edge. Today we have got an amazing group

0:49of of of panelists. It's going to be a

0:51fun fun discussion, some friends from

0:53the past and some new friends and we're

0:55really going to talk about partnerships

0:57today. And when we talk about tech and

0:59we talk about utilizing technology,

1:02especially in this sector, um in that we

1:05are not built as organizations as

1:08humanitarian organizations to really

1:10hold our own dev team, to really be able

1:11to um

1:13bring the best and the brightest out of

1:16tech because there are other

1:17organizations that do that and these are

1:18tech companies. And so today I'm really

1:20excited to bring both uh tech

1:23organizations, humanitarian

1:25organizations, um

1:27dual-hatted organizations as well that

1:29work in the development sector too.

1:30And and and have us all together and the

1:33the lucky part about this is they're

1:35already partnering. So what this is

1:36going to really bring out I think today

1:38is is how partnerships work, how they're

1:40cultivated and how they catalyze um

1:44the the potential use of of of

1:45technology in the humanitarian sector.

1:47And so really want to welcome our

1:49guests. My first guest today is Fran

1:51Baker. Fran is with ARM uh and if you

1:54don't know ARM you should because

1:56they're they're they're on the edge uh

1:58when it comes to computing and what's

1:59going on right now today.

2:01We've got Shane O'Connor, the innovation

2:03manager at UNICEF that's here with us

2:05based on the Stockholm and Hoving at the

2:07museum, one of my close friends from a

2:09long long time ago and the head of

2:11innovation at UNHCR. So welcome

2:13everybody.

2:15Thanks Chris. Great to be here. Oh,

2:18lovely. Fran, I want to start with you

2:20and and and just give you a chance to to

2:22talk about what you do at arm and and

2:25your role and and how this plays out in

2:27this partnership discussion we're going

2:28to have today. Yeah, sure. So I am

2:31director of social impact and innovation

2:34at arm and for people that aren't

2:36familiar arm is a semiconductor and

2:38software design company designing the

2:40chips that are powering a lot of our

2:42digital lives. So from small scale

2:44sensors to smartphones to

2:46supercomputers,

2:48we're the industry's highest performing

2:50and most power efficient compute compute

2:52platform and my role leading social

2:54impact and innovation is connecting the

2:56best of what we provide from a

2:58technology perspective our leading

3:01engineering expertise and our funding

3:04mechanisms together to deliver impact.

3:07Amazing. And Shane, at UNICEF innovation

3:11obviously has grown leaps and bounds

3:13over the the last few years. I mean to

3:15see what's happening in New York, to see

3:17what's happening in Stockholm, to see

3:18what's happening in all of your hubs

3:19that you guys have been able to put

3:20around the world. So I'd love to hear

3:22about what your role is and and and what

3:23UNICEF's doing in the innovation space.

3:26Yeah. Um sure. Well,

3:29my role in the office of innovation is I

3:31lead

3:32a relatively small team but hopefully a

3:35pretty fundamental team, the the

3:36frontier tech team. So we underpin a lot

3:39of the work that goes on across the

3:42office of innovation and wider

3:44innovation and and kind of frontier tech

3:47initiatives in UNICEF. So on my team we

3:49have AI experts, data science experts,

3:53blockchain experts,

3:55developers, open source, digital public

3:57goods,

3:58and we kind of provide that sort of

4:01technical knowledge and strategic

4:02support to uh the rest of the

4:05organization. So, that could be from,

4:07you know, providing input to UNICEF's AI

4:10strategy or helping design better

4:13performing models for predicting air

4:14quality.

4:16I love it. That's amazing. Super

4:18amazing, super super spectacular here

4:20that organizations have that capacity

4:22inside them. So, that that's going to be

4:23really special to talk about today.

4:25Olav, my friend, over to you.

4:28Yeah, thanks for inviting me again,

4:30Chris. And uh it's going to be almost 20

4:33years in March with UNHCR.

4:36So, we've grown in this sector.

4:39And I lead a team uh the innovation team

4:43of UNHCR, which

4:45is spread across the world. We have less

4:47than 30 people now, and our role is to

4:51be the engine of innovation for both

4:54refugees and our teams. So, what we do

4:57is we basically um call for ideas,

5:02uh select the best, fund them, and we

5:05fund both refugee-led organizations

5:07directly

5:08and UNHCR teams, and we work

5:12not only in collaboration between UNHCR

5:14teams and refugee-led organizations, but

5:16we

5:17we're very keen on working with

5:19partners. So, ARM is we will talk about

5:22ARM, I think, extensively today.

5:25Uh about FRANI in particular, but also

5:27the ARM team um

5:29from ARM to World Food Program

5:32um

5:33and from the World Bank to ILO. So, kind

5:35of looking at solving complex challenges

5:38not alone, but in partnership with our

5:41clients, refugees, and host populations,

5:44and the people who who all there to

5:46serve them. So, that's a bit the role of

5:48my team.

5:50Um so, we don't think of ourselves as

5:53innovators, but

5:54as people who are helping the rest

5:57innovate.

5:58Amazing. Glad to be here.

5:59>> Amazing. Yeah, great to have you here,

6:00buddy.

6:01So, um

6:03when we look at tech partnerships, I

6:05kind of bucket them in three buckets,

6:07right? The first bucket is your

6:09procurement sales partnership, which

6:11really isn't a partnership. It's more of

6:13a transactional relationship, right? So,

6:15that's kind of bucket one.

6:17Uh the second bucket is um pro bono uh

6:20support. We're going to give you some

6:22some tech time. We're going to give you

6:23some tech and and go go forth and and

6:26try to work it out yourself. And um we

6:29might start charging you after a year or

6:30two, you know, so be prepared. And then

6:33and then the the third one is um

6:36shared value. So, coming with a mindset

6:39that uh we're going to work together.

6:41We're working together for a common

6:42goal.

6:43Uh we think that our tech uh can can

6:46solve a problem that you have and and

6:47we're here to go on that journey with

6:49you. Shared value being we're going to

6:52charge you for it, but you're going to

6:53get a great rate because we know what

6:54you're doing and we still got to pay the

6:56bills, but on the other side, hey, look,

6:59you know, you're going to get the best

7:00support that you can um

7:02when you're when you're doing this. And

7:04and so, those are my three buckets. And

7:06and Fran, maybe you have a fourth, but

7:08um but I would love to hear from you

7:10from an Arm perspective,

7:12um how how do you look at these

7:14partnerships with organizations like

7:16UNHCR and UNICEF? And and how do you

7:18create

7:19that relationship?

7:21Yeah, so I think uh partnerships with

7:24UNHCR and UNICEF are representative of

7:28the journey that we've gone on from

7:29going beyond philanthropy and standard

7:33CSR through to social impact and

7:36innovation over the last decade. So,

7:38UNICEF are actually one of our first

7:41partners that we ever began working with

7:4310 years ago now. So, we've recently

7:45celebrated our 10-year anniversary

7:46working together.

7:48UNHCR represent how we've

7:50um amplified that innovation journey by

7:53working with them for nearly 45 years.

7:56And

7:57really one of the joys that we get is

7:59working with innovation services within

8:01big organizations because they can

8:03really match us in terms of the way that

8:05they think, the speed at which they can

8:07move, the types of innovations they're

8:09coming up with or thinking about in

8:11order to serve the people that are

8:13hardest to reach quite often. So,

8:15we've been building out our social

8:17impacted innovation approach to drive

8:20lasting change, not be a, you know, that

8:23kind of um donor

8:26grantee model,

8:28but connect the things that are unique

8:30and have that additionality from an arm

8:32perspective. So, what can we uniquely

8:34contribute? We know it's in those three

8:36areas: our technology, our funding, and

8:38our people. And we really believe that

8:40by combining those three things, that's

8:42where you have the biggest impact. But,

8:45as we're the private sector organization

8:48in these partnerships, I think it's also

8:50approaching them with deep humility.

8:53So, whilst we are the experts in

8:55particular areas and whilst our

8:56engineers will be the

8:58leading um minds on particular topics,

9:02we defer to our partners to be the

9:04experts in their fields. And I think

9:05it's that unique contribution of

9:07bringing those things together that

9:08really has that shared values and

9:11co-created approach that delivers the

9:13longer-lasting success. And learning

9:16from what doesn't work along the way,

9:17right? Not just assuming that

9:19everything's going to be a perfect

9:20success immediately, nor that it's going

9:23to be something that you do once that's

9:25immediately successful. It might take

9:27time. It might take 10 years, but you're

9:29going to have something longer-lasting,

9:31more impactful that delivers impact

9:34across the board.

9:36Absolutely. No, that's really great. I

9:37mean, I hope that maybe just a question

9:39to you

9:40on on this because

9:42how do you articulate that internally?

9:45You know, and and and this is for all of

9:47our other NGO and and and and and

9:50international organization colleagues

9:51that are out there who struggle on how

9:53to articulate this because they might

9:54just be viewing ARM as the private

9:56sector. So, they've already got some

9:58sort of view on who the private sector

10:00is and what they're doing. And how can

10:02you bridge bring that a little bit of

10:04technical knowledge, bring that

10:05technical knowledge in, be able to speak

10:07on behalf of an organization such as ARM

10:10to to the other folks around the team,

10:12and be able to show them that, "Hey,

10:14this is really about creating good

10:16working together with the private

10:18sector." I mean, cuz I I think there's a

10:19lot of struggles that people have when

10:21we talk about these types of

10:22partnerships.

10:24Yes, Chris, and I think the struggle is

10:27in the

10:28in the three buckets that you mentioned.

10:31And I would say

10:33uh Fran didn't answer that question. I'm

10:35going to answer to say ARM is in a

10:38fourth category.

10:40And for now,

10:42hopefully not in the future,

10:44it when it comes to us on their own in

10:46that fourth category. And I'll

10:48I'll take a moment to explain. So, the

10:50three categories you mentioned including

10:53the shared value, you said, "Well, even

10:56in those shared value, there is a kind

10:58of you use our technology, and you know,

11:01you get discounts in the future." So,

11:03there's there's still a connection

11:05between

11:07the private sector company, the tech

11:08company, and organization in terms of

11:11the organization using that tech

11:13company's technologies. And I think you

11:16and I have spoken about this a few times

11:19in the past about that kind of the

11:21struggle of one

11:24the first category where

11:26companies see us as clients. So, they

11:29sell us products. And then a lot of

11:31times the corporate social

11:32responsibility entry point is just an

11:34entry point for a grow for growing the

11:37business. For sales. Yeah. For sales,

11:39that's the kind of the second category.

11:41And the third one is, well, it's a

11:44sales light.

11:46So, we

11:46it's a bigger and I think what

11:49what was fascinating beyond just getting

11:52to know Fran Rosalie and the team in ARM

11:54is that it was a breath of fresh air to

11:58um

11:59uh

12:00it to know a company that doesn't have

12:03that. So, there is no conversation about

12:07using ARM technologies.

12:09I don't recall ever

12:11having that conversation. And it's more

12:14about um

12:17beyond funding

12:19actually they making decisions together

12:21on which projects are we supporting.

12:23And then [snorts] also getting valuable

12:25time of experts of ARM

12:28just the way Fran described it to be

12:30part of solving the problems that

12:32refugees and our teams are facing. Now,

12:35I think now I'm going to answer your

12:36question.

12:39We haven't faced

12:41um much difficulties translating that

12:45internally. And the reason is because of

12:47the nature of the partnership. Right.

12:50Cuz the nature is in that fourth

12:51category. And because we are

12:54we are very keen on bottom-up

12:56innovation, meaning we are not trying to

12:59force

13:00any external solutions

13:03onto refugee organizations or UNHCR

13:06teams. Actually, they design their

13:08projects.

13:09We select the best, and then we help

13:11them implement what they think is the

13:13solution. So,

13:15that's also a key component. I think the

13:17internal struggle from what I've seen

13:19in-house and in other kind of agencies

13:22is when you

13:23you're sitting in, let's say, in our

13:25case in Geneva, and you come up with a

13:26solution, and then you want to

13:28or you find a solution, or a tech

13:30company comes to you with a solution,

13:31and then you go to Zimbabwe or the DRC

13:35and say, "Hey, we have this.

13:37Do you want it?" Like, we don't have

13:39that at all. We're really agnostic. So,

13:41I think that that is

13:44out of many reasons, that's why our

13:47partnership with ARM is growing

13:50in such a positive way, because we are

13:52there to solve problems,

13:54not favor technologies, um and not push

13:58technologies onto problems or problem

14:01owners, basically. I Yeah, I spoke too

14:03much. Over to you. No, no, no, it's

14:05awesome. And Shane, I mean, you you've

14:07got a tech team

14:09sitting with you, right? And so, now

14:11that relationship's going to be even

14:13more different than what Ovik's engaging

14:14with, right? Because it's It seems to me

14:16that your engagement with ARM probably

14:18is going to look a little bit different.

14:20So, maybe you could talk a a little bit

14:21about how you've engaged, because I

14:23mean, you look at Google. So, we've got

14:25a lot of relation, you know, a lot of

14:26organizations have relationships with

14:28Google. They go through the AI

14:29challenge, etc. Um obviously, Microsoft

14:32and and their tech for good folks have

14:34been

14:35innovating everyone for many years on on

14:37supporting their tools, and and they use

14:39a very different approach. Uh we've got

14:41Twilio, we've got Okta, we've got all

14:44these different organizations that are

14:45out there trying to do things for good.

14:47Um but but since you've got your own

14:49tech team, you're you're kind of unique

14:51uh from many other organizations um in

14:54terms of uh of of of organizations. So,

14:56how's that relationship go for you? And

14:58what are you What are the key factors

15:00that are in this partnership that truly

15:02matter for you?

15:04Yeah, it's actually something I've I

15:05mean, obviously, in preparation for for

15:08this, Chris, I've been thinking about it

15:09a little bit more, but I've been

15:10thinking about it over uh the last

15:13while. So, we're kind of in a moment of

15:14reflection, 10 years

15:17UNICEF and ARM together.

15:19Um like, I am not in the Office of

15:21Innovation for the 10 years,

15:23unfortunately. So, I haven't been part

15:24of the full journey, the full success,

15:27only the last kind of 3 or 4 years or

15:29so.

15:29But, I have reflected over cuz I've had

15:31a lot of chances to work with Fran, with

15:34Rosalie, and Maureen, and and some of

15:36the others like technical people at ARM.

15:40Like, for me, it comes down to like So,

15:42we talk about shared values, but like it

15:44comes down to almost like a people, the

15:46people that are involved. And like

15:49it is not an accident that ARM has

15:51become such a successful company. They

15:53really heavily invest in the best in

15:55class of people, and they I'm sure have

15:57a wonderful HR

15:59um program

16:00that manages to get like all the best

16:02graduates from all around the world, and

16:04people who are driven to solve problems,

16:07and really believe in technology as

16:11being something that can be

16:12transformative for people

16:14uh around the world. You know, I

16:16ideally, I guess, for ARM in their

16:18sphere of work, but that translates very

16:21well to the people on my team and the

16:22people in UNICEF, right? So, the reason

16:24I am where I am at UNICEF is cuz I have

16:27a firm belief in the transformational

16:30potential for technology for uh UNICEF's

16:33work for children around the world. So,

16:35I think there's that kind of We talk

16:37about shared partnership, shared vision,

16:38but there's also that overlap in

16:40personalities. So, you know, our AI team

16:43really believe that, you know, on-device

16:46edge computing can really help with uh

16:50providing, you know, AI learning

16:53uh in Colombia,

16:55um in places where infrastructure is

16:57challenged. And ARM's work in that area,

17:00you know, is is is bleeding edge, is

17:02leading for that. So, there We're trying

17:04to solve the same problems

17:06uh with maybe a slightly different uh

17:08mandate, I suppose. Um So, for me,

17:11that's like really been the

17:14uh exciting part of of of my time uh

17:17working on the partnership with arm is

17:19that we're kind of all the same team

17:22trying to solve problems for for the

17:23betterment of people

17:26um

17:26uh like with technology.

17:29Yeah, I would add to that as well. I

17:31think the the relationship space is so

17:33key. How do you have a good

17:34relationship? It's not an organization

17:36to an organization. It's the individuals

17:38within each of them that are

17:39communicating with each other on a daily

17:41basis whether it's teams or their

17:43personnel directly. And we've been

17:46working together for a number of years.

17:48Organizations change, people come and

17:50go, but the main thing that sustains it

17:53is the relationships you build with each

17:54other and having that shared

17:56understanding of what you're trying to

17:57do. And arm as an organization is fueled

18:01by partnership. So our impact approach

18:03mirrors our commercial approach where

18:05our partnership model is bringing

18:06together the best of each organization.

18:09And so to Hoebig's point,

18:12we look for where challenges surface

18:15organically. So the problem owners are

18:18the people that identify what the what

18:20their needs are and then together we'll

18:23look at not for not just where there's a

18:26role for technology and AI, but firstly

18:29if there's a role for technology and AI.

18:31So I often say

18:33technology is not always the answer, but

18:35when it is, it can be transformative.

18:37And it's in those places that we try and

18:40collaborate and partner with the

18:43innovation services of both UNICEF and

18:45UNHCR to support where we can with them

18:48as their sort of custodians of the

18:51problem owners in particular countries

18:53or regions.

18:55Absolutely. I I you know, it's

18:58it

18:59People come and go. I think you know,

19:01you said that. And and if it's and you

19:03said that too friend and it's it's a

19:04really um

19:06it's hard with partnerships. Go ahead,

19:08Shane. Yeah, but it's so it's like

19:10principles, right? So the people come

19:11and go for sure, but you have

19:12principles. If you look back to the um I

19:15like cuz I did this, if you look back to

19:17the original quote uh from Arm's then

19:20CEO about the the launching of the

19:22partnership with um

19:25uh with UNICEF, it holds true today, you

19:28know? Technology should be used to

19:29create opportunity for all. I mean, full

19:32stop there, and like, you know, that's

19:33that's that's how we work together.

19:35Again, in different tracks, but like

19:37coming towards the same ultimate aim.

19:39So, there's like principles that guide

19:41us, and the office of innovation and the

19:44venture fund that we have has very

19:45strong uh principles around being open

19:48source, you know, not being like forcing

19:51solutions on people. This co-creation.

19:54Um and I would say that like and kind of

19:56Fran alluded to it there as well, like

19:58we would like come with curated uh

20:02problems to be solved. We're not coming

20:04looking, you know, we really want to use

20:06AI cuz it's so hot right now. It would

20:08be great if we could use AI. That's not

20:11it. We're like, we think that we could

20:13use this technology to like, you know,

20:16improve the prediction of hazardous air

20:18quality um in schools. Is this something

20:21that is interesting to you guys? Do you

20:22have something to like add to it? And

20:24invariably uh it's in the same space

20:27that Arm has expertise and interest. So,

20:31yeah, principles are there as well, you

20:32know.

20:33Yeah, yeah. For sure. For sure. I And

20:36Hovig

20:37and Shane, both of you in the UN system,

20:40right? Do you feel

20:42in the UN system that there is is kind

20:44of um

20:47a similar approach

20:49by the other organizations? Or

20:51and you don't have to name names, right?

20:53I But it is is there a similar approach?

20:55Or um you know, because there are

20:58innovation accelerators in other

20:59organizations. There are different ways

21:02Hovig, you got the refugee led, you

21:03know, work that you've been doing, which

21:05is very much bottom up. The some of the

21:08accelerators do a little bit more of

21:09organizations come with tech and then

21:11look to to solve an issue in that way.

21:13But but in terms of

21:15how you guys are are seeing things, is

21:18there something that

21:20you think should be the standard across

21:22the whole UN system in the way that this

21:23is working so that it it can scale and

21:26grow?

21:27These types of partnerships?

21:29I think the the

21:31the challenge is

21:36we we don't have that many

21:40in the tech sector that have the arm

21:43approach. And this is not

21:46I would say that even if we're not on a

21:47call with Fran.

21:49Uh we also say that when we are actually

21:52talking with other tech companies, we

21:54talk about arm with them.

21:56Uh

21:57you kind of the kind of

21:59almost sometimes a shaming moment uh

22:02where like, well, you know, this is the

22:04best practice we have. I think the the

22:06challenge we have is that in

22:09specifically tech innovation

22:12most of the companies we deal with

22:16are about their technologies being used

22:20by us.

22:21Which I think impedes

22:25uh our ability to really

22:28um

22:29maximize the potential of these

22:31companies

22:33and maximize our potential to serve our

22:36clients.

22:37So I think that at least to me, the

22:39biggest struggle I've had with the tech

22:42sector is that it's not about most of

22:45the time co-creation, it's about how we

22:47can use their technologies. And that

22:49limits your If you don't have that many

22:51companies who are willing to actually be

22:53agnostic about the tech and work with

22:55you and put their brains and expertise

22:57towards the best solutions,

23:00you still want to work with all of these

23:02companies, but those partnerships have

23:05their limitations, which then impacts

23:08the you know, impacts the solutions that

23:11are developed. And we have many not not

23:15not going to name companies where there

23:17has been serious investments over a

23:19number of years

23:21of adopting a certain technology because

23:23it was driven by the partner

23:27and millions of dollars invested and

23:29then we have to

23:31change course because that was not the

23:33best choice. It was just because

23:35it was bound together with a

23:36partnership. So I think that's a bit it

23:39it creates a bit of a

23:42off

23:44situation in innovation where

23:47I would say actually the majority of

23:49those tech contributions are going into

23:53maybe not in the right direction.

23:56And

23:57so yeah, so that's I think that creates

23:59a bit of a you I'm not going to touch on

24:01the bottom-up and top-down approaches

24:03because you mentioned it that obviously

24:05is

24:06different approaches within the UN

24:07system, but what I find common is that

24:10kind of

24:12there has been a lot of talk in the last

24:1410 years about

24:16the importance of partnerships with the

24:17private sector,

24:18but the talk hasn't matched the practice

24:22of really truly life-changing,

24:25groundbreaking partnerships. I mean a

24:27question

24:28for me would be on the private sector

24:30partnerships, you know, PPP, whatever we

24:32want to call them,

24:34is that

24:37is that

24:38the expectation setting I don't think

24:40has ever been right. I think that it's

24:43it's that there's always been a lack of

24:45clarity from

24:47the humanitarian side of what they

24:49really want and also from the tech

24:52sector, right? And that kind of goes

24:54into my third bucket again, right, of

24:56shared value of being able to say,

24:58you know, this is what we can offer you,

25:01and this is why we're offering it to

25:03you, and this is our ethos and our

25:04values, and the NGO saying, this is our

25:07ethos and our values, these are the

25:08people that we serve, and this is these

25:10are our guardrails for which we have to

25:11do

25:12uh things. And um I don't know if that

25:15expectation setting has always been

25:17there. And Fran, when you guys started

25:19this initiative at ARM, how

25:22how did you set your How did you set the

25:25ground rules? What were

25:26What were your priorities, you know, on

25:28how you're going to engage and why

25:30you're doing what you're doing and what

25:32you're trying to achieve?

25:34Yeah, it evolved over time. I think as

25:36as you were talking, I was thinking

25:37about how we we won't have always got

25:40things right and with any partners, and

25:43you learn and you evolve and you adapt,

25:45and I think the changing circumstances

25:49impact

25:51looks different on any different on any

25:52given day.

25:54So, for us, it was about

25:57exploring a lot of different options and

25:59then realizing over time that actually

26:02we can uniquely contribute in those

26:04particular ways that I've mentioned

26:06through our technology, through our

26:07funding, and through our people. How do

26:09we make each of those categories best

26:11practice or as close to best practice as

26:13we possibly can. And then

26:16gradually filtering what and how we

26:19engage with programs or particular

26:21themes. So, our themes, for example, are

26:23health, education, climate, and nature.

26:26Um because they cover

26:28a breadth of different areas that we

26:30think are critical, and then it's where

26:32technology and AI can intersect with

26:34those. So, we've looked at this

26:38on an annual basis, as you might expect,

26:40but also iteratively. If a pro-

26:42particular program that we're working on

26:44isn't working, or if there's a global

26:47change that means that that program's no

26:48longer fit for purpose, we adapt. Um and

26:51I think it is back to that humility

26:53point that is we're willing to be led on

26:56what the biggest need is rather than

26:57direct what we think the biggest need is

26:59or that would best serve us. And that's

27:01where I think we've had the been able to

27:03have the greatest impact and been able

27:05to have the um, better practice

27:08activities. And

27:09Shane alluded to an example with UNICEF

27:11earlier, but something that we're we've

27:13been doing in Laos with them on air

27:16quality monitoring. Um,

27:19it always starts with the problem. The

27:20problem being that air quality is one of

27:23the leading causes of death in that

27:24region for under fives. Okay, what could

27:27a solution be? Well, if you don't know

27:29what the issue is, how can you address

27:31it? Perhaps deploying a range of sensors

27:34across the country might help to

27:35identify those better.

27:37For me, that whole program is a

27:39multi-sector partnership led by UNICEF

27:42of a problem that matters to them. And

27:44the genius of it is to put those sensors

27:47in schools because then the measuring in

27:49air quality detection has become or can

27:51become part of

27:54students and young children's AI

27:55literacy skills. So, it's that perfect

27:57intersection of education, health, and

28:00climate and nature. So, for us, that's

28:03AI at the heart of all of those issues.

28:05Bringing together the best of what each

28:07of our organizations can offer.

28:09Sending our engineering talent to see

28:11firsthand what the challenges are being

28:14faced there and how we might contribute

28:15our technical expertise to that

28:17particular problem. And delivering

28:20impact for those communities. So, I

28:22think it's the humility point and always

28:25leading with the problem or being led by

28:28the problem as opposed to individual

28:30organizational

28:31requirements. Absolutely. And Shane, how

28:34do you lead?

28:35Right? Humanitarian organizations aren't

28:37usually trained to lead technology

28:40companies into our problems and and and

28:43so, how how do you take that

28:46for lack of a better word, that control.

28:48And And how do you manage that on on

28:51your side?

28:52Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say control, uh

28:55but uh and it like it it speaks to the

28:58the principle and the approach that that

29:00like we have internally and how we work

29:02with our country office teams. And that

29:04that example that Fran expanded upon

29:06there in Lao, I mean, that's coming from

29:08country office like UNICEF country

29:10office. That that wasn't me sitting uh

29:12you know, in my chair in Stockholm

29:14coming up with that idea. Although I

29:15would love to claim it.

29:17Uh but it wasn't me. I like I'll be

29:19honest, I I see us as like

29:21being more of a team together. So, I I'm

29:24working in service for my country office

29:26program colleagues, right? So, what

29:28they're trying to do, I'm trying to help

29:29them.

29:30I am not the only person that is an uh

29:33so, I'm titled innovation manager in

29:35UNICEF, but there are so many innovators

29:37across all of UNICEF in child

29:39protection, health, education, social

29:42policy. In every country, there's

29:44there's innovators there. So, like part

29:46of my role is to like provide the

29:48support to them to like like have that

29:51innovation come to fruition.

29:53Uh and like to be honest, and again, I'm

29:55I'm you know, I'm coming out the uh

29:58the after the first 6 years of the

29:59partnership with Fran, I think, you

30:01know, she said it it's been a journey as

30:03well. And I would I'm benefiting from

30:06that in terms of now I'm able to work

30:09with Fran and the team there and like

30:11arm

30:12as as a as a kind of a partner as a as a

30:14team member towards solving the

30:16problems.

30:17Uh and that's that's something that I as

30:19Fran was talking, I would I would think

30:20that is like something to highlight

30:22around these types of partnership is

30:25being in it for the long haul as well,

30:26right? So, it wasn't that

30:28oh, after 2 years, we didn't quite get

30:31it right in these 2 years. Let's stop.

30:33Let's go somewhere else. Let's Let's

30:36Let's Let's do. Let's restart. It was

30:38really like doubling down and like

30:41having that kind of long-term

30:43uh strategic vision, which I think again

30:46reflects back to the underpinning

30:48principles probably of ARM and certainly

30:51of Office Innovation as well. But sorry,

30:53just to like get back to the the

30:55original point. Yeah, like not so much

30:56leading, but like, you know, genuinely

30:59co-designing and and like working in a

31:02quite a nice way, I think.

31:04That's that's amazing because when I I

31:06know of many partnerships in a lot of

31:07organizations through my time at

31:08Humanity Link um

31:10where the

31:13there was a shift change in the

31:14technology company. So, they came in one

31:16year and said, "We We really want to

31:18help all the organizations do this."

31:20And then then what happened was

31:21something happened, a whole bunch of

31:23layoffs, a whole bunch of people left,

31:24and the situation changed, the social

31:26impact merged with something else. And

31:29and this is a consistent problem to have

31:31to manage with organizations. And And I

31:33think that that creates reticence

31:35on the organization's behalf on on

31:37engaging in these partnerships, albeit

31:40well beyond all of the other

31:42conversations that are going around with

31:44tech companies related to

31:46different crises around the world and

31:48supplying tech in in these situations.

31:50So, there's also that other kind of

31:51values issue that we deal with. But if

31:54we just stick to the the the thing about

31:55how tech companies are very iterative,

31:58right? And sometimes their their their

32:00leadership changes and and so on and so

32:01forth. So,

32:03hearing this, and this is more just a

32:04reflection, I think, hearing this about

32:06ARM 10 years working together, staying

32:10the course, going through the ups and

32:11downs, and and I think that's something

32:13really important for other tech

32:14companies that are listening and and

32:15tech providers that are listening to

32:17podcast to really grab onto that, right?

32:19This can't be you know, impact is not

32:22seen in 3 months, right?

32:24Impact is seen over a long period of

32:26time

32:27and and and and over a building of a

32:30partnership. So, I think that's a really

32:31important point.

32:32One thing on impact, so we we talked

32:34about Lao a little bit and and you know,

32:36there there there I'm sure lots of other

32:38examples, but

32:40how is there a difference in the way

32:42that the folks at ARM view impact and

32:44then Hovig you yourself and and and

32:47Shane view impact or are you also

32:50designing those

32:51those overarching sustainability impact

32:54goals together? How how are you guys

32:56managing that? Maybe Hovig first over to

32:58you.

33:00I think it's a

33:02thing that impact especially in

33:04innovation, but I would say within the

33:06humanitarian development world,

33:09it's constantly working progress on how

33:12do we

33:13understand articulate the impact of our

33:18of our initiatives.

33:19So I say that's not static, but I think

33:22what works well with with ARM,

33:25there's a few elements to this. One is

33:28that

33:29the

33:30is that we

33:32a few years ago and in parallel to

33:34starting working with ARM, we developed

33:37our bottom-up monitoring and evaluation

33:40um kind of mechanism.

33:42Each project has its own KPIs.

33:45Um we have an M&E and a monitoring and

33:48evaluation plan, work plan, budget.

33:51Kind of the the the the boring parts

33:53maybe, the not so exciting parts of any

33:55project, but really making sure that

33:58every project is driven by its own

34:01declared intentions.

34:04Um is it So that and then we have that

34:06trickles up. So each project then speaks

34:09to a program, the program speaks to the

34:11wider goals of our innovation team. So I

34:14think that that's one. The kind of doing

34:17that homework really has helped. Two, uh

34:21the kind of the partnership on um the

34:25decision-making. So the governance

34:26structure, how do you make the decision

34:29on where the investments are being made?

34:31So each of our projects goes through a

34:34quite a strenuous technical review.

34:36Uh

34:37ARM colleagues are involved there and

34:39all the way to ARM colleagues sitting on

34:41our steering committees and making

34:43decisions on where the investments are

34:44going to go together. And uh the

34:48the the cool thing about this

34:50decision-making process is that again,

34:52it's void of politics.

34:55ARM doesn't come in with

34:57ARM's priorities.

34:59Let's say when these decisions are made,

35:02we don't even have our own priorities.

35:03We say we want to

35:05invest in

35:07quality and impact. We don't want to

35:10make predetermine the the areas that

35:14we're going to invest in. That is

35:16helping us also, I think, um achieve

35:19impact that maybe escapes when you

35:22predetermine

35:24um the areas of investments as well.

35:27These are the strategic priorities of

35:28our organization, so we're going to

35:29invest in this. And so, that's one. And

35:32then the two there's the kind of in our

35:34sector, one of our biggest Achilles

35:36heels is uh a

35:39smart M&E.

35:41Um

35:42especially innovation, I have heard

35:44arguments that well, innovation escapes

35:47M&E. So, we you know, we have a because

35:50it's innovative then

35:52things can't be measured and understood.

35:54Well,

35:55then how do you prove impact? So, I

35:56think that those are those are my

35:58thoughts on how

36:00how being agnostic when you make the

36:03decisions on where do you invest,

36:05the being agnostic and focusing on

36:07quality, I think, helps with impact.

36:11And Fran, how how have you felt about

36:13the impact discussion? Right? Because

36:15you still have a social impact kind of

36:18goal

36:19as as ARM in some way, shape, or form

36:21when you're coming in, right? There's

36:22there's an overarching theme, so to say.

36:24A goal might not to very specific. And

36:26and how do you how do you

36:29when you talk to one of these folks,

36:31yeah, you Shane or Hovig, and and you're

36:33trying to explain this is why we want to

36:34work with you. What what are what are

36:38what are the words that you use, right,

36:40when you when you're engaging with them?

36:41What's what's the way that you're you're

36:43you're introducing yourself as Fran to

36:46them and as on?

36:47Yeah, that's that's different for newer

36:50partners than it is for long-standing

36:51ones cuz a lot of those conversations

36:53are evolving. Um but we actually

36:57undertook a big

36:59>> [snorts]

36:59>> program a few years ago to

37:02make our social impact monitoring and

37:04evaluation

37:05as robust as we can knowing that the

37:09parameters for social impact aren't

37:11necessarily as extensive as for

37:13environmental impact within the world of

37:15the sustainability or sustainability

37:16reporting.

37:18And as part of that, we were we had a

37:21lot of ongoing, I would say debates

37:24rather than conversations about whether

37:27reach is the right measure of impact.

37:29And it was really helpful actually to

37:33get very transparent and candid

37:35conversations with the likes of Hovig

37:37and Shane and others in their

37:39organizations

37:41based on reach not always being that

37:44right measure. And a lot of people want

37:47to a lot of organizations want to have

37:49either

37:50um well, quite often they want to have

37:52this very large number that they're

37:54aiming towards. But if that very large

37:55number is made up of a few people

37:57skimming a blog post, is that impact or

38:00is that just a number? And so we really

38:04critiqued ourselves with our impact

38:07measurement and tried to break it down

38:09in terms of what is what we can directly

38:13attribute to either our funding or any

38:15of our partnership work together versus

38:17what we might have indirectly

38:18contributed to by funding a foundational

38:20piece of work or sending an engineer on

38:23a particular supporting program, for

38:24example. So, we really looked at that

38:29and tried to

38:31address the issues that either

38:33organization might have when reporting

38:35up on their impact measures, because the

38:38driving force for us has always been

38:40doing the right thing, because it's the

38:42right thing to do.

38:43There's another layer of being able to

38:45engage our people and driving that pride

38:48in the work that we do in knowing that

38:49they're working for an organization that

38:50cares about these types of um things,

38:53and then um

38:55how we might catalyze some activities

38:57that then deliver

38:59additional um significant changes. So,

39:02it it is it's often an ongoing

39:04conversation. It's something that we've

39:07reviewed and assessed and tried to

39:10challenge ourselves on more and more,

39:14and quite often it's actually a

39:15combination of the two, like a global

39:17reach and a local depth

39:20perspective. So, I'm giving you the um

39:23example from Laos just now, but then

39:26there's also this overarching cumulative

39:28reach figure that we um

39:31work towards. However,

39:34considering those challenges that we

39:36know that organizations have with that

39:38as a um

39:39metric, so how can we make sure that

39:41we're doing both things and not doing

39:43them weakly, make sure that we're doing

39:45them really, really well. Um

39:47I think another aspect of impact

39:50measurement for us is how we can support

39:52the needs and the goals of

39:55organizations. So, for example, with

39:57UNHCR supporting their localization

39:59commitments, how is the um

40:03organization or management of particular

40:05programs and projects led by

40:08Jane's example, the UNICEF country

40:09office, or Havig's example, refugee-led

40:12innovators.

40:13How can we move that impact to be led by

40:16those particular problem owners

40:19and make that impact be their key

40:21criteria for success metrics. Yeah.

40:25Yeah, absolutely. Shane,

40:26one of the things that always comes up

40:28for for any partner working with

40:30technology and not technology partner,

40:32but any organization working with

40:34technology is the sustainability

40:36question, right? Because we are on

40:38project cycles as as humanitarian

40:40organizations, right? 12-month funding

40:42cycles for the most part. Mostly

40:44innovations are six-month pilot cycles,

40:46right? With the hope that you'll get you

40:47know, six months later you'll get

40:48another funding grant to to do the

40:50second pilot or whatever.

40:52Um a lot of MVPs, a lot of POCs, very

40:56few production level things that are um

40:59sorry, minimum viable products and and

41:01proof of concepts for for for the new

41:03listeners. Um but uh but and and not

41:07many sustainable long-term things. And I

41:09had an organization come to me the other

41:11day and said, "Okay,

41:12the main design challenge with whatever

41:15we build here, it has to be handed over

41:16to the government and be used by them in

41:18the future."

41:20And I was like, "Well, okay." And

41:22that's the most significant challenge.

41:24It's not that we can solve the problem,

41:26right? We can design the tech for you

41:28and everything that's there, but now

41:29handing it over to the government,

41:30integrating with their stack,

41:32integrating and training their staff to

41:34use it, they have to pay for it, they

41:35have to take the accounts. So, from a

41:37sustainability standpoint, Shane, what

41:39are some of the tenets or or some of the

41:43the the the ideas that you guys try to

41:44bring

41:45in when you're designing your tools and

41:47then working with partners as well that

41:48are at a high level of tech, you know,

41:50knowledge and and sophistication. When

41:52we're talking about uh you know,

41:54quantum, we're talking about even AI

41:56itself, and we're talking about edge and

41:58being able to sustain that um and and

42:00and so on.

42:03It's a good question. And like and

42:06like I we're talking earlier about like

42:08impact and how we measure impact. I was

42:10kind of coming to this a little bit

42:11myself, Chris, because

42:13um well, certainly from my work now, but

42:15like previously when I worked at a

42:17country office level, for me, and I

42:20understand numbers, you need to have

42:21numbers to show impact. That that's

42:23fine. But like real impact is kind of

42:27like long-term

42:29uh sustainability, adoption at the like

42:32local, community, country level,

42:34whatever you want to measure it as.

42:35And like, you know, ownership uh by the

42:38the community that it's being hosted in.

42:41That for me is kind of that shows kind

42:43of real long-term impact.

42:46There's no magic bullet, I don't think,

42:48for like guaranteeing that. Like when

42:51whenever I, you know, Fran and I are

42:52talking about like the next project that

42:54we want to work on together, it's not

42:56always in my gift to give an exact place

42:59where we're going to go and do it, and

43:00it certainly it's not always

43:02uh our our gift to give like it's going

43:04to be a scale long-term

43:07um

43:08like

43:09project. But you can, however, like put

43:13some things in place that um at least

43:16set you up

43:17uh as best as possible to take advantage

43:19of those opportunities.

43:21And it's kind of principles again a

43:22little bit.

43:23Um

43:24and one of those uh principles that like

43:27works very well for us in Office of

43:30Innovation and for UNICEF and for our

43:32partnership with ARM is being like open

43:34source, right? So, a lot of the

43:35solutions that we would invest in are uh

43:39open source.

43:40And that really assists It doesn't solve

43:44the the like the problem of

43:46sustainability, but it like kind of

43:48removes a barrier

43:50uh to the solution, the product, the

43:53platform uh being more sustainable in in

43:56given context, right? So, especially in

43:58resource-constrained

44:00contexts.

44:01That would be something that we would do

44:04uh as as a principle.

44:06Also, you know, we're talking about

44:07designing with the user, right? So, like

44:09working with a country office, not me

44:11coming up with cool ideas, you know,

44:13chat GPT could do some amazing stuff,

44:15I'm sure.

44:17Uh but really, could it actually in, you

44:20know, in a in a

44:21in you know, in in Burkina Faso, would

44:23it really be appropriate to start, uh

44:25you know, leveraging the wonderful chat

44:27GPT to uh to solve some of the problems

44:30that UNICEF is working with? Probably

44:32not. Um and that like um that focus, I

44:37think, uh

44:38like can help us help bring us toward

44:41that

44:42uh longer-term impact and

44:44sustainability, which really uh go hand

44:46in hand, I guess. Yeah.

44:48Yeah.

44:49Yeah, go ahead, Fred.

44:50Yeah, and I think on that, it's it's to

44:52do with the

44:54local context, right? So, rather than

44:56saying

44:58um this particular solution's going to

45:00be perfect and match all of the needs

45:02everywhere, it's very unlikely for that

45:04to happen. But if you have sort of a

45:05foundational compute or a foundational

45:08tool, it can be applied a different way

45:11or a different in a different country.

45:13So, I think it's similar to the impact

45:15conversations about whether reach is the

45:18right metric. There's often a push for

45:20scale.

45:21And scaling

45:23what does that mean? Where are we

45:25talking about? In what context? So,

45:27James' comment about Burkina Faso, yes,

45:30you might be able to scale a particular

45:31innovation around the rest of the

45:34country, but will that apply just as

45:36well in Bangladesh? Not so sure. What is

45:39there What are the local requirements?

45:40What are the local needs? And I think

45:42it's deeply understanding those, and it

45:45doesn't mean that every single partner

45:47in that ecosystem needs to deeply

45:49understand those needs, but it does

45:51inform the decisions on what are the

45:53appropriate technologies to use in any

45:55particular environment. Yeah. So, Vic.

45:59Yeah, I uh

46:01just two two three thoughts here. One is

46:04the

46:05in terms of kind of internal struggle,

46:07but also in our ecosystem, I always say

46:11we don't have a romantic relationship

46:13with scale.

46:15But,

46:16I find myself

46:18when I say that specially with certain

46:22senior level colleagues, etc.

46:24It's just

46:25for some is very off-putting because

46:27there is within our ecosystem

46:30this kind of all for the new technology

46:34that is going to save the world.

46:37And there's the free fear of missing

46:38out, and then this attachment to scale.

46:42People want to achieve scale

46:44immediately.

46:45So, don't talk to me about these small

46:47initiatives here and there. Talk to me

46:49about that one thing that's going to

46:50change the world. And I think

46:53our approach, which has been bottom-up,

46:55has constantly had that friction with

46:59Oh, yeah, but this is this is only

47:01applicable to this location. And I say,

47:02well, if it solves the problem for 5,000

47:04people, it's worth while the investment,

47:06period. And scale for me is

47:09if we have multiple projects like that

47:12across the world that are solving

47:14problems where they are,

47:16then that's scale also. It doesn't need

47:18to be that one solution that is

47:21applied. So, I think that that that is a

47:23problem in our ecosystem. There's the

47:25fear of missing out and an attachment to

47:27these few technologies, usually the

47:30latest. So, it used to be what?

47:32Blockchain and crypto. Now it's

47:35generative AI. Now it's agritech. And we

47:37will see in in a few years what will be

47:40the the newest thing on the block, and

47:42then everyone gets it runs after it. So,

47:43I think there's that element of

47:46um that that kind of is disruptive, I

47:49think. Now,

47:51on the issue of sustainability, I I

47:53think that bottom-up approach plus the

47:55partnerships element

47:57is

47:59is key. And we do multi-year. So, we

48:01don't force projects into 6-month cycles

48:04nor yearly cycles. Each project has its

48:06organic timeline. We have the headache

48:09of bringing resources to that project,

48:11not that they have to spend the money in

48:136 months.

48:14So, what you end up having is that we we

48:17have a now a global project on using um

48:20artificial intelligence for improving

48:22refugee status determination.

48:24It's quite a very important part of what

48:27UNHCR does, but we have the patience to

48:31one partner with governments,

48:33partner with experts in the field, and

48:36giving ourselves the time to pilot, to

48:38learn from it, see where we're going to

48:40use AI for, where we're not going to use

48:42AI for. That takes a few years. And when

48:44I say it takes a few years, sometimes

48:47some senior colleagues say, "Well,

48:48that's we don't have that time. We need

48:50the solution tomorrow." So, I think that

48:53the sustainability the answer part of

48:56the answer to sustainability, are you

48:58working

48:59are you solving real problems?

49:02Uh one, are the right people involved?

49:05Are you partnering up correctly with the

49:07right people? And do you have the

49:08patience to go through this go through

49:10this and not force things into 6 months

49:12or 8 months or kind of this synthetic

49:15timelines timelines?

49:17Yeah, absolutely. Shane?

49:20Yeah, as as Toby was talking there, I

49:22mean, I was was still thinking about

49:25like impact, scale, sustainability.

49:28I'm I'm coming back to like France

49:30mentioned it once or twice about

49:32humility that I'm bringing to a

49:34partnership.

49:35Um and to me like all that kind of

49:37circles in around, you know, I'm driving

49:40like a global partnership platform as

49:42well, right? So, that is something

49:44that uh like I'm has been trying to do,

49:46bring other people to the table in the

49:49same sort of principle way as them.

49:51Uh it's going to feed into my wish as

49:53well, but like that's that's something I

49:55think that is like you know, you could

49:58talk shared values as well, but

49:59principles.

50:00With UNICEF at least we have something

50:03that's called AI and play

50:05and that's really like a partnership

50:07platform where we're trying to bring the

50:09best in tech to like

50:13like solve scalable problems for for

50:16children for UNICEF of course, but that

50:18like

50:19approach that ethos that humility I

50:22think is um

50:24>> [clears throat]

50:26>> like certainly something that can help

50:28us all come towards something that is

50:29more scaled sustainable

50:32for four partnerships between tech

50:35tech firms and our ecosystem.

50:39I would say.

50:40Thanks James. You know, this has been

50:42such a rich conversation and I want to

50:44thank you all for for coming on the

50:46podcast this week. And and I we we try

50:49to end you know, because the

50:52idea behind this podcast is what is the

50:53art of the possible. We're not trying to

50:55define next steps. We're not trying to

50:58do anything. We're just trying to

50:59broaden the minds of everyone to think

51:01differently in the way that we do

51:02things. We know that last year was one

51:04of the toughest years for organizations

51:07around the world in trying to assist

51:09people in need that are more than they

51:10have been ever in any time with less

51:13money than we've ever had for for the

51:15last 15 years. So it's it's it's a

51:17really tough time and so bringing out

51:18this art of the possible, what can we

51:20do? What can we think about? I think is

51:22is really the the idea behind it. So we

51:24end with your your wish, your low

51:26hanging fruit. What is that one thing if

51:29you could change today to make things

51:31better for your work in innovating and

51:33and and and using technology

51:35in the humanitarian sector, what would

51:37it be? So Olli, we'll start with you my

51:39friend. What's what's your low hanging

51:40fruit? What's your big wish?

51:42I have two big wishes. One Me too.

51:46>> [laughter]

51:47>> One is that we as organizations who are

51:50working in some of the most difficult

51:52spots in the world to use a word that

51:56Fran used to have the humility to be

51:58really

52:00client-centric and problem-centric. So,

52:03think less about the organization and

52:05more about the people we serve and and

52:07the problems we're trying to solve.

52:10And then on the tech side,

52:12I wish that we have more of

52:14the types of Fran and Arm to work with

52:17so that we can solve these very complex

52:20challenges without

52:22being forced to use certain

52:24technologies.

52:26That's a big call out. That's a big call

52:27out to other technology companies. I

52:29hope that they're listening. And so when

52:31they pick up the phone and they call

52:32you, they know they know what to say.

52:34Shane, over to you, buddy.

52:36Yeah, that's that's that's good, all

52:38right. This this sounds a little bit

52:40like a love-in for Fran and Arm now, but

52:42like that for sure. Genuinely, I would

52:46love to see

52:48more of like-minded people and firms,

52:54companies, leading technology companies

52:57take the the approach that Arm has taken

52:59over the last 10 years.

53:01I think that there has been huge impact

53:03there. I'm not sure what's a low-hanging

53:04fruit, but it's it's definitely a wish.

53:07And I think we're leading by example

53:08there.

53:10And like another one if we're doing two,

53:13I would say like like maybe through that

53:16platform if we can convene this sort of

53:19like

53:21um

53:22community or ecosystem of people who are

53:24focused on solving problems, different

53:27different organizations perhaps, but

53:29ultimately trying to use technology

53:31to improve the lives of people around

53:33the world.

53:34I love it. I love it. Fran, I'm going to

53:36let you okay, so what we have now is a

53:38stocking and something under the tree.

53:40That's what we have now for your for for

53:42our wishes. Uh so

53:44you're stocking and under the tree.

53:46Okay, so my first one is to remember

53:49that innovation is not just these big

53:53massive inventions, but it's novel

53:56solutions, incremental changes

53:59implemented in interesting ways. And

54:02especially in the context that Huvig and

54:04Shane are operating in, that's critical

54:06to know.

54:07Um

54:09and my bigger ticket item is to use your

54:11influence where you are and join us. So,

54:15you've said pick up the phone and call

54:16us, email us, join what we're building,

54:20and I'm very happy to always learn from

54:23others

54:24and think that we could be doing things

54:26in a better way.

54:27Oh, thanks, Fran. Listen, Huvig, Shane,

54:30and Fran, thank you all for joining us

54:32today. It's been a great conversation. I

54:35thank you all for your candor, your

54:38ideas, [music] your thoughts, and uh

54:40yeah, let's see what's next. And listen,

54:42you're all on LinkedIn, your LinkedIn

54:44profiles will be shared

54:46in the podcast. So, if you do want to

54:47reach out to anybody, please do. And

54:49join ARM [music]

54:50and and and all of the different

54:52humanitarian organizations that are

54:53trying to help people around the world

54:55in [music] really highly vulnerable

54:56situations that need assistance today in

54:58a really tough environment. And and

55:00let's [music] partner together for tech.

55:02Thank you all and have a great day.

55:03Thank you.

55:04Thanks, Chris.

55:13Thanks for joining us on Humanitarian

55:15Frontiers on the Edge. If today's

55:17conversation sparked new ideas, new

55:19questions, [music]

55:20or new ways of thinking about what's

55:21possible, then we've done our job.

55:24This podcast is brought to you by

55:25Humanity Link working at the

55:27intersection of technology and humanity

55:29to help deliver aid faster, smarter, and

55:31with greater accountability.

55:33Until next time, stay curious, stay

55:36grounded, and keep pushing the frontier.

55:40>> [music]

55:47[music]