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0:12A lot of us growing up were not exposed to the Arabic language. And this left us at a very significant disadvantage because we could not truly connect with Allah's words within the Quran. Because in order for you to fully understand the Quran to the best of your ability, you must be able to understand it. If this is a struggle that you personally have
0:33dealt with, and I personally have dealt as well, then I have something perfect for you. The Kalam app is an app in which you can use to learn Arabic in order for you to understand the Quran, have conversations, be able to properly study Islam, and everything in between. Go ahead and head over to the Kama.
0:54>> Do you know what Messiah means? >> The anointed one. >> Okay. Anointed one. Chosen one, right? >> Yes. >> Chosen for. What? What was he chosen for? >> Oh, chosen for specific messianic duties. >> Chosen for. Okay. So, now you said he is the Messiah. He is the chosen one, right? So, when we obviously you have to
1:16uh stick to your Quran and I have to stick to my Bible. So your the Quran does the Quran not mention Jesus more than Muhammad >> by name does that wait does that prove does that prove a point? >> It does prove a point. >> Yeah. Sure. And what does that prove? >> Does it
1:37>> wait what does that prove? >> Yes. Does it? It's it's it's going to lead up to >> Wait, hold on. What is What does that prove though? >> I answer the question. [laughter] >> Wait, I'm I'm asking. Yeah. Wait, hold on. Hold on. So, >> does the Quran not mention Jesus more by than Muhammad >> by name or like are we considering
1:57alluding to the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him as well? What are what are we referring to? >> No, it's just that it's the question is just as clear as it is. Just mentioning the name. >> Oh, mentioning by name. >> Yes. >> That's no problem. Even if that were the case, that's no problem. >> Yes. Yes or no?
2:15>> Wait, I'm saying even if that was the case, there's no problem. But does it not? Yes. >> Wait, I'm I'm saying even if that's the case, no problem. Same with Moses, by the way. >> Okay. >> Same with Moses. Same. Does that make a point, though? >> It it does. >> Okay. But Moses was mentioned more than
2:32Jesus in the Quran. >> Okay. >> Is there a problem? >> But there's differences in the reason the mentioning, you know, this the the facts. >> Well, what's the difference? >> What's what was spoken about Jesus and what was spoken about Moses? What's the difference? >> There's there's a lot of differences. How how how
2:52>> it's actually saying that Jesus is the Messiah. Jesus is anointed one. >> Sure. Moses spoke to Wait, Moses spoke to Moses spoke to God directly. Did Jesus in the Quran? >> Did Jesus what? >> Did Jesus speak to God directly like Moses did in the Quran? >> And when you mean directly, what do you mean? Face to face or just speaking to
3:10him directly? >> I mean, I I don't believe face to face. And you don't believe face to face either. So >> I do. The Bible says Moses spoke to God face to face. >> So why did God turn his back? So why did God turn his back to Moses? >> Why did he why did he turn his back?
3:27>> Yeah. God turned his back to Moses. Moses did not speak to God face to face literally. >> So So what what does it mean when it when they when it says they spoke face to face? Face to face means they spoke without an intermediary and without Moses either being in a sleeplike state or getting revelation. That's all face
3:45to face means. It doesn't mean literally face to face >> because God turned his back to Moses in the Bible. >> It he Yes, he turned his back. He turned his back. But he what he meant what he meant was >> so did so did Jesus speak to God face to face like that like Moses did? >> No. But there's
4:02>> So who who has a higher status, Moses or Jesus then? No, that does that doesn't that doesn't give Moses status. >> Wait, yeah, Moses had the Wait, Moses was blessed with being able to speak to God quote unquote face to face as per the definition that we just gave. Jesus didn't. >> Okay, now what? And that's in the Now
4:21what? >> Okay. Does the Okay, so the does the Bible mention that Jesus uh he aparted from his glory to come on earth and die for everyone's sins? that that's you know he even if he didn't talk speak to uh God face to face he Moses didn't dis Moses didn't apart from the glory from coming from heaven and coming down to
4:40earth and fulfilling the the >> but Jesus wait but Jesus never makes those claims >> um the prophets do >> like >> Isaiah >> Isaiah >> so so okay so do you believe Okaya in the prophet Isaiah.
5:01>> Sure. Show me. >> You do? >> Sure. Show Show me where Isaiah says that Jesus came down from heaven. >> Where it says he Okay. Um Isaiah, give me one second. It's right here. >> No, we're not. >> I'm going to I'm I'm gonna uh I'm gonna prove it to you right now
5:23where he was because I don't want to give you the false uh false chapter. So, I like to be accurate. >> It's okay, bro. >> But >> it's, if I'm not mistaken, it's Isaiah 54. I'm gonna clarify that right now for you. >> No worries, man. >> It says he it says he he he he he uh let
5:45me let me let me get it here. I just want to be I just want to be accurate in my words. I don't want to say no nothing false. But what uh it it's see trying to prove Christianity off of one. >> It's okay. We we we don't we don't need to stay on just one passage. You know, I
6:05just asked where. I just asked where, but it's okay. We don't have to go into the specifics. We can break it down like this. So, what was the point that you were making when you asked me if Jesus was mentioned more? >> Isaiah 53. No, I was just stating the fact that Isaiah 53 mentioned more. >> All right. Yeah. Yeah. Isaiah 53. So,
6:21what what does Isaiah 53 say? That that Jesus came down from heaven? >> I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to give it to you right now. I'm going to give it to you right now. Who is this speaking of? Do you do you Okay. Do you acknowledge that they were speaking about Jesus here? >> No. It's speaking about the righteous
6:37remnant of Israel. >> Okay. And who is the righteous one? The chosen one. >> No, no. The the righteous ones. The righteous remnant is not one person. It's multiple people within Israel. But an example can be made of Jeremiah for example. >> Okay. So Isaiah 53, you're saying that wasn't there? We're not speaking about Jesus. >> No.
6:55>> Okay. So, so can you can you read it? >> Yes. >> Okay. >> Who has believed our message? Yeah. And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? He grew up before him like a tender chute and like a root out of dry ground. He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him. He was despised and
7:14rejected by mankind. A man of suffering, familiar with pain, like one from whom people hide their faces. He was despised and we held him in low esteem. Surely he took up our pain and bore our suffering. Yet we consider >> Can we stop there? >> Can we stop there? You said it's speaking about multiple. When it says
7:32he, >> yes, >> when it says he, >> yes, the children of Israel as a whole are addressed as he within the Bible as well. Do you want to see the verse that has that says that? >> Continue. We'll we'll continue. No, no, [laughter] no, no, no, no, no. I'm not I'm not I'm not I'm not agreeing to
7:47that. I'm just saying continue because it's going to continue to [laughter] it's going to continue to reveal hill. You can I mean you can laugh but you're assuming that I'm I you know like you have the correct answer but continue 53 and then we'll touch that topic. All right, bro. All right, I got you, man. Surely he
8:08>> Hey, bro. Yeah, we considered him punished by God, but he was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our iniquities. >> Okay. So, who was pierced on the cross? It was it all is >> Wait, where does it say cross? Where does it say cross? >> He was pierced. Pierced. >> Sure. >> For our transgression transgressions.
8:27Sorry. >> Sure. And and what what does that mean? Pierced. >> Okay. >> Yeah. He Israel as a whole is mentioned as he as well. Do you have a problem with that? >> Is that is that your translation? Is that >> No, no, no. That's not a translation. That's the Bible using that language multiple times referring to the entirety
8:45of the children of Israel. No, I'm not translating this verse like that. I'm just using the Bible to interpret the Bible. >> You're Is that I'm sorry. Is that your interpretation? >> What >> is that your interpretation of Isaiah 53? >> Yeah. I believe that Isaiah 53 is about the righteous run of Israel. Yes. And I can give you examples.
9:04>> Okay. You said you believe. >> Yes. And I can prove it as well. >> Okay. That Okay, continue. I I I that's >> You don't You don't want me to prove it? >> Well, we didn't finish reading Isaiah 53, so let's finish that and then we can Yeah, >> sure, man. He was pierced for our transgressions. He was crushed for our
9:21iniquities. The punishment that brought us peace was on him. And by his wounds, we are healed. We all, like sheep, have gone astray. Each of us has turned to our own way. And the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us. He was oppressed and afflicted, yet he did not open his
9:41mouth. He was led like a lamb led to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its sheerers is silent, so he did not open his mouth. By oppression and judgment he was taken away, yet who of his generation uh protested, >> for he was cut off from the land of the
10:04living. who for the transgressions of my people he was punished. >> Okay. So, Okay. So, you're saying it's talking about Israel? >> Yes. The righteous remnant of Israel. >> Okay. And he was taken off the land of the living. So, so Israel, Israel was taken out of the land of the living. >> The righteous remnant of Israel was
10:25taken out of the land of the living. And an example of the righteous remnant of Israel is the servant Jeremiah. That's an example of the righteous remnant of Israel. The righteous individuals within the wait hold on be quiet. The righteous individuals within Israel were held accountable for the iniquities of the
10:45unrighteous. For example, in the book of Jeremiah, it explicitly says that Jeremiah was like a lamb led to the slaughter and they tried to cut him off from the land of the living. The same exact imagery, the same exact wording that's used in Isaiah 53 is ascribed to Jeremiah who is a righteous servant of Israel, making him the righteous
11:05remnant. It's as simple as that. Jeremiah in the book of Lamentations 5:7 explicitly says, and he's the writer here. He's the one writing the book of Lamentations, he says that our forefathers have sinned and we bear the iniquity. Same exact language in Isaiah 53. Refute it. Well, it describes here
11:27our transgressions were put upon him. There's only one person that was able to fulfill that and that was Christ. >> No, no, no. Lamentations 5:7 Jeremiah says that he fulfills it. >> That who fulfills it? >> Lamentations 5:7 Jeremiah is the writer. He is speaking he's speaking about his
11:47forefathers and he says that our forefathers have sinned and we bear the iniquities. >> Okay. And and those >> that's Jeremiah speaking. So is that is that not the same language that's used in Isaiah 53 that our iniquities were laid on him? >> On who? >> On the righteous remnants of Israel, Jeremiah and other individuals.
12:09>> It's it's speaking. Listen, it's speaking singular. >> I agree. I agree. He and you know what's interesting? The Bible refers to the entirety of Israel, which are multiple people, as he as well. Do you want to see the verse? >> That's that's that's not true. >> Okay. Do you want [laughter] me to show you?
12:29>> I mean, if you want to take a a text out of context. >> No, no, no. I'm not going to take it out of context, man. >> Okay. >> Hey, bro. I'm I'm not going to take anything out of context. You ready? >> Are you ready to read? >> Yes. I'm listening. Let's read, man. Here we go.
12:50>> Okay. >> Uh, no. No, not okay. We're going to read first. >> Okay. Go ahead. Go ahead. >> All right. Let's get it. >> Where you at? Lamentations. >> No. Well, we were at Lamentations. Now, we're going to go. It's in Isaiah, I believe. Let's grab it. >> Isaiah. >> Hold on. Let's close out Isaiah 53. So,
13:11let's go elsewhere. All right, let's go to Isaiah 43 and let's go to verse 10. And we're not going to just skip over the context. We're going to read a verse before and a verse after. All the nations gathered together. This is plural. And the people's assembles assemble. Which of
13:34their gods foretold this and proclaimed to us the former things? Let them bring in their witnesses to prove they are right so that others may hear and say it is true. So this is plural. This is all of the tribes of Israel, right? Plural. You are my witnesses declares the Lord. And my servant whom I have chosen. God is referring to
13:56all 12 tribes of Israel in the singular as one servant. >> That's possible. That's possible. Refute it. No, listen. That's possible. But that doesn't mean everywhere in the Bible where it says he, he's talking. >> Wait, prove that. Prove that's not the context in Isaiah 53. Prove it. >> No, no, listen. I said that is possible.
14:17>> No, I agree. I agree. It is possible. Sometimes Israel is referred to in the plur. I agree with you. Hold on. Listen to what I'm going to say. In some places, Israel is referred to in the singular. In others, he's they're referred to in the plural. In this verse, they are referred to in both the singular and the plural. Prove in Isaiah
14:3353, it's not referring to the righteous remnant of Israel. Prove it. >> Prove it's about Jesus. Show me one part of Isaiah 53 that doesn't fit Jeremiah. I'll give you that challenge. One part. >> Okay. Let let let me let me prove a point here where it says he was led by a a a
14:53>> like a lamb led to the slaughter. >> Okay. Yes. Okay. The like a lamb. All right. Correct. >> Yeah. Wait, hold on. And that doesn't Wait, that doesn't fit Jeremiah. No, I I'm not saying it doesn't fit. >> Wait, but I'm telling you No, no. I But I remember what I asked you. I asked you, prove to me that it is specifically
15:13Jesus. Give me something that applies to Jesus and nobody else. >> Okay. So, this is specifically talking about Jesus. See, at the end of the day, listen, that's that's what you're saying. Just because that's what you believe. >> No, no, no. I'm I'm not, bro. Put beliefs to the side. put beliefs to the side. I'm asking you to use the text and
15:36prove it. >> Listen, [laughter] listen. I I clearly said, right? I clearly said I You said Isaiah 43 is talking about Israel, right? Singular and
15:56>> plural, right? >> Plural, right? Okay. Okay. But I I clearly said >> and remember and remember before I brought you the verse and I told you there are verses where Israel is referred to in the singular. You said I was lying. You said that's not true. Then I brought you the verse, you concede immediately. >> No, you said no. Listen, we can if this
16:14had rewind, we can rewind. You said in the Bible everywhere where it says he is talking about Israel. >> No, I didn't. >> Yes, you did. >> Wait, I wait. I said that every time the Bible says he, it's referring to Israel in the singular. Yes, you did. >> No, I didn't. You're a liar. >> Yes, you did.
16:30>> You are a liar. Did I say that, guys? Did I say that every single time Israel is mentioned? It's in the Guys, did I say that? >> Yes, you did. >> Oh, they're all calling you a liar, man. But it's okay. I want you to fulfill my request. >> Okay. >> I want you to fulfill my request, man.
16:46Calling me a liar. Bring me one verse in Isaiah 53 that is only applicable to Jesus. One verse. >> Okay. So, this this here's here's the here's the point. Here's the point. >> No, no, no. Listen, you're gonna Bro, brother, remember, this is my life, and I' i'm trying to be as respectful as I
17:06can to you, but in order for us to have a productive conversation, Wait one moment. >> In order for us to have a productive conversation, >> you're going to need to engage with what I'm saying. >> So, can you please show me one verse in Isaiah 53 that is applicable to Jesus and only Jesus? One. >> Okay.
17:26When it says, "For the transgressions of my people, he was stricken." When it says, "He is not talking." >> Wait, let's go one by one. Let's go one by one. That's the one you want to use. Is that your choice? >> Yes. If the servant is Israel, then then
17:47who are my people? Who sins the servant suffer? >> That's a good question. I answered that question. You know what's interesting? I answered that question. That's a really good question. If the servant is Israel, then who is the people? That's a great question. The answer to that question is that that there's a reason why I I didn't say Israel as a whole. I said the
18:03righteous remnant of Israel. The righteous individuals within Israel are being held accountable for the transgressions of the unrighteous. So, some people are bearing the iniquities of other people. There's no contradiction in that. Do you see the point that's being made? The righteous ones are being punished for the sins of
18:26the unrighteous ones. And Lamentations 5:7 explicitly says that where Jeremiah writes that our forefathers have sinned and we bear the iniquities. There's no contradiction in that, my friend. >> That's your that's your way of basically interpreting this. But that's
18:48not what it's saying. I understand, brother, but the point that's being made. >> Wait, but one moment. The point that's being made is you keep saying it's speaking about Jesus. It's speaking about Jesus. You haven't brought me one verse that applies to Jesus and only Jesus. You haven't brought me a single one. >> Yes, I I'm Well, I'm trying to. And you
19:10>> But it's not It's not working cuz I keep refuting you with the Bible, man. >> I'm just interpreting Bible with Bible, bro. >> Finish. One sentence is not allowing me to. No, no, no. I said, "Give me the argument." No, no. You, it wasn't one sentence. I said, "You can give me the verse. You can." And then you asked a
19:25question to which I answered the question. Now, if you want to move away from this verse, we can you can bring another verse if you want. Or if you want to continue with this verse, we can continue with this verse. >> Well, that is like I said, uh, you're not allowing me to bring what I need to
19:39bring. You know, you can say, >> you can you can go ahead. That's fine. >> Okay. So, what this is this is what we're this is what we're discussing. You're saying Isaiah 53 is talking about Israel and you explained that they are there are righteous people that are taking on the their transgressions when
19:59that's not what it's trying to say that take basically righteous people taking on I I don't know if you want to call it injust people's transgressions when that verse is saying that Jesus came and he took on our transgressions and what let me explain Because if he didn't come and die on a cross, we would not have access
20:20to enter to the gates of heaven. But since he made that ultimate sacrifice, because in the Old Testament, the rituals that were made or the sacrifices, should I say, they were presented lambs with no defects, right? To what? The high priests every year would present a sacrifice for what? For
20:41the sins of the people. And then the Bible explains clearly that he says what did he says? I do not want sacrifice. I want obedience. Right? So what happens? Jesus says he has to fulfill that ultimate sacrifice which is the lamb without defects because he didn't have any sin which that's the reason why God
21:02sent him in form of man to fulfill that ultimate sacrifice as a lamb without defects. And that's what Isaiah 53 is mentioning about his the transgressions of us sinning. He took him on the cross. And guess what? Through Jesus, now we have access because what the veil when when Jesus died, it clearly says that
21:24the temple broke in half because no longer >> Okay, I'm going to I'm [laughter] going to have to I'm going to have to cut you off cuz you've you've now you're straying away from the point. >> No, no. You said you was going to let Hold on. You You've been talking uninterrupted for 2 minutes. No, no, no,
21:38no. It's because you've been talking. No, it's because you've been talking uninterrupted for 2 minutes and you didn't answer my question. >> That's why I'm cutting you off. >> That is answering that question. >> No, what was my question? >> You said where is it talking about Israel or 50 the versions?
21:58>> No, I didn't. [laughter] So, how could you answer a question that you don't even remember? You don't even remember what I asked and you're claiming to answer the question. >> I'm See, I'm I'm bringing my my >> But I I know. And you're allowed to present arguments. I have no problem with that, my friend. You are allowed to
22:18present arguments, but just as I directly engage with what you say, I request of you that you directly engage with what I say. [laughter] >> So, let me ask you. Okay. So, so then I'll repeat my So, then so this is what I'm going to have to do then. Since you're since you're engaging, then this is what I'm going to have to make you
22:34do. Show me one verse where it's specifically talking about Jesus. Only Jesus. Doesn't apply to anybody else. >> Isaiah 53. Show me. >> Where? Isaiah 53. >> Yes. One verse that only applies to Jesus. If I can bring you a verse that shows it applies to others. >> Conceded. >> Well, I clearly said that Isaiah 53 is
22:54completely talking about Jesus when he died on the cross. >> Prove it. >> It says he. You're saying >> Yeah. Israel. Israel is referred to as he. Israel is referred to as he as well. >> That's That's what you're saying. But >> No, but the Bible No, that's not what I'm saying. That's what the Bible says. >> Where does the Bible says
23:10>> Isaiah 43 refers to Israel as the singular. Isaiah Sorry, Isaiah 43. >> We're talking You're talking about Isaiah 43. I'm talking about 53. That's >> Yeah. Well, I'm saying that in other instances, in other instances, Israel as a whole, as a multiple is referred to in the singular. No problem with that. So, no, that doesn't only apply to No,
23:27that's what the Bible says. Isaiah 43:10. >> So, you just So, okay. Okay. So, you just clarify that. So, what makes you think that 53 is talking about Israel as a complete whole as a people? And >> no, I I didn't say as I didn't say as a complete. No, I didn't say as a complete whole. Remember, I said the righteous
23:42remnant of Israel. The righteous individuals within Israel are the ones that are bearing the punishment for the transgressions and for the iniquities of the individuals that are unrighteous and sinners and straying away from God's path. That's the point that's being made here. Lamentations 5:7 substantiates that. Jeremiah 11 substantiates that. Every single verse in Isaiah 53 can be
24:00applied to the righteous remnant of Israel. Every single verse that's applied, every single verse that's mentioned in Isaiah 53 can be uh referred to is in the book of Jeremiah. Jeremiah can fit every single description in Isaiah 53. And I want you to prove me wrong. The point that's being made here is that there is no explicit verse that only specifies that
24:20it's about Jesus. So verse 9. Yeah. What does verse 9 say? >> Okay. Can you read it? >> Isaiah 53:9. Yeah. Gotcha. >> Go ahead. Let's see, man. >> He was assigned a grave with the wicked and with the rich in his death. >> Stop right there. >> Yeah. >> You said it's talking about Israel as a
24:39whole. >> The righteous remnant of Israel. Yes. Being buried with the wicked remnants of Israel. It says he was what? Assigned what? >> A grave with the wicked. So he was buried. So he was buried with the individuals that were wicked. >> Okay. So Israel was buried. That's what you're saying. >> Not the whole of Israel. The righteous
24:55remnants of Israel. Are you not understanding the point that I'm making? I can break it down simpler for you. [laughter] >> That makes no sense. >> Okay. What's the Wait, I understand. Wait, no. No. I understand that it makes no sense to you. >> I understand that it doesn't make any sense to you. I can make it a little bit
25:10more simple for you. >> Oh, wait. Yeah. Yeah. The the righteous remnant of Israel were buried. Yeah. The righteous individuals of Israel that were held accountable for the transgressions of the individuals who were not righteous were buried. What's the contradiction in that? >> Uh, that it's talking about Jesus. You're saying it's talking about Israel. >> Prove it's only about Jesus.
25:32>> Prove Okay. Prove it's only about Israel. >> Whoa. >> Why aren't you answering my questions? >> Wait, wait, wait, wait. Why? Why aren't you answering my questions? You You can't answer my question with a question. >> I did. >> I can't. Wait, you can't answer my question with a question. >> But why? Because it's your Cuz this is
25:49>> because I need you. Because I need No, no, no. It's It's not because it's my platform. It's because it's dishonest. You're being dishonest. When I ask you a question and instead of you answering the question, you hit me with another question. That's being dishonest. >> The first time I I hit you with another question. Okay. But I
26:03>> So don't So don't be dishonest. Verse 9 does not Wait. So verse 9 Wait, verse 9 only applies to Jesus. >> No, no, the whole I'm just saying it's it's >> But okay, then you didn't answer. So you didn't answer my question because I said give me a verse where it's only about Jesus. What I'm trying to say is, all right,
26:24this is what I'm trying to say. 53 is speaking about Jesus's death. >> Prove it. It's not talking about Israel as a whole. >> Prove it. Prove it. I never said it was Israel as a whole. You keep strawing me. I said prove it's about Jesus. >> Okay. So, this is this this this is where it comes in. Who was sent for our
26:45transgressions? Who was sent to die for our sins? >> Wait, who says that this person was sent? Wait, where does Isaiah 53 say he was sent? >> Well, I'm not saying Isaiah 53 says that, but >> Okay, so don't so don't lie and don't lie and say who was sent because Isaiah 53 doesn't mention somebody being sent.
27:04>> Well, I'm at That's I'm >> Yeah, you're adding that. So, don't add stuff. Quote the verse for what it says. >> Okay. So, so let's go back to John 3:16, right? Listen listen. It says what? For God so loved the world >> that he gave his only begotten son. >> Okay. Okay. >> Yeah. >> What is that saying? He He gave so
27:23>> Wait, hold on. What does that What does that have to do with Isaiah 53? Prove it's about Jesus, man. >> It's clearly saying God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten. >> I said Isaiah 53. What does this have to do with Isaiah 53? >> Okay, here it goes. He gave up his son to die in form of man, which that's what
27:40it's claiming. And >> I I that No, no, no, no. Where does Isaiah 53 say that God is going to send his son to die in the form of man? Isaiah 53 doesn't say that either. You're adding stuff to the verse again. >> Okay. Well, it's talking about the transgressions he carried >> Lamentations 5:7. The righteous remnant
27:55of Israel bore the transgressions of the people as well. >> Okay. So, in seven when it says um he didn't open his mouth >> and did Jesus Wait, Jesus Wait, Jesus didn't open his mouth? >> No, he didn't. >> Jesus didn't wait. Jesus Jesus didn't open his mouth when he was being crucified. Well, listen. Not what what
28:14do you mean? What? Listen. What he means is defend himself. He didn't defend himself. >> Wait. No. No. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Whoa. Really? Jesus never defended himself? Wait. Jesus never refuted the children of Israel when they accused him of blasphemy. He never defended himself against their accusations. >> Well, what I mean is he didn't defend himself. He could have did he could have
28:35did whatever. >> He did defend himself. He did defend himself. In the Bible, he refutes the he refutes the children of Israel over and over again when they accuse him of blasphemy. He did. >> Listen, what I mean is what I mean is when he was on the cross, when he was being smacked, when he was being
28:52>> Wait, no, the verse does not specify when he was on the cross. It just says he did not open his mouth. >> Okay. Okay. So, let let me ask you this. What does seven says when it says Can you read seven? We read seven. >> Isaiah 53:7. Amen. Let's get it. Oo, I I wanted to get to this. I wanted
29:09to get to this. I I'm so excited for this. Pastor Pastor, I love this verse. I love this verse. He was oppressed and afflicted. Yet, he did not open his mouth. He was like a lamb led to the slaughter >> and as a sheep before its sheerers is silent. He did not open his mouth. So, he was like a lamb led to the slaughter.
29:28Right. He was oppressed and afflicted and he was like a lamb led to the slaughter. This is about Jesus. >> Led to the slaughter. Yeah, it's about Jesus. >> Yes, it is. The book of Jeremiah 11 18-9 say that this is about Jeremiah >> who was slaughtered. >> Oh wait, did you just hear what I said? The book of Jeremiah 11 verses 18-19
29:46Jeremiah is given this exact same imagery that he was like a lamb led to the slaughter. >> And is it a prophecy or not? >> No, it's about Jeremiah. Jeremiah is speaking in the first person about himself. >> It's so it's not a prophecy. >> No, not a prophecy. It's about Jeremiah. [laughter] >> What What makes you say that? Jeremiah.
30:05Jeremiah 11 18-19. Because the Lord revealed their plot to me, I knew it. For at that time, he showed me what they were doing. >> Can Can you repeat that? Can you repeat that? >> Because Yeah. 11 18-9. It says, "The Lord all Wait, hold on. Look at this. Because the Lord revealed
30:25their plot to me, I knew it. For at that time, he showed me what they were doing. I had been like a gentle lamb led to the slaughter. I did not realize what they plotted against me, saying, "Let us destroy the tree and its fruit. Let us cut him off from the land of the living." It sounds a lot like Isaiah 53,
30:47right? A lot like Isaiah 53. >> Okay. And why were they saying that? >> Wait, and that's about Jeremiah, right? This is Jeremiah speaking about himself, right? >> Yes. Yeah. Go. >> Okay. So, so Okay. So, Jere No, no, no, no, no. It's Jeremiah speaking about himself. >> Wow. >> Jeremiah is they were plotting against Jeremiah. Remember? So, wait, hold on
31:09one moment. So, you agree they were plotting against Jeremiah, correct? >> Yes. >> And you agree that Jeremiah applies the title of being like a lamb led to the slaughter to himself, right? >> No. So what's Jeremiah saying here when he says I had been like a gentle lamb led to the slaughter. What's he saying here man? That's not about himself. He's
31:31not saying I was like a gentle lamb led to the slaughter. >> Yes, it is. >> Okay. So why'd you just say no? >> You said see you you're not you're not allow you're not [laughter] allowing me you're not allowing me to speak.
31:52This doesn't this doesn't mean that [laughter] >> brother what what are we pastor what are we doing man what are we doing [laughter] >> no no listen >> pastor WE WE GOT TO BE MORE honest bro we got pastor we got to be more honest bro [laughter] >> no no no I listen I am BEING HONEST LISTEN I I misunderstood I misunder
32:14it's okay don't worry it's okay don't worry >> so okay so my thing is that you're saying that just because he he announced the same words from 53. They they both mean he's speaking about him in in Isaiah 53. >> No, no, no. That that's that's not the point that I was making. I said the point that I made is that I asked you to
32:33give me a verse that only applies to Jesus. You said verse 7. Verse 7 explicitly also applies to Jeremiah because Jeremiah sorry applies the same exact titilage to himself. So you failed the challenge yet again. I asked you give me a verse that explicitly only applies to Jesus and you gave me a verse
32:54that also applies to Jeremiah. Amen. >> I didn't say I I wasn't singling out 1 verse 7. I was trying to clarify where it says he was taken to the slaughter which talking about when he's taken to the cross. >> Yeah, but why can't but but it's it's you need to prove that it's about that. But but you need to you need to prove
33:09that it's about the crucifixion because I can just say this is applying to Jeremiah 11 18-19. >> But that's what you're that's what you're saying. No, that that's just me interpreting the Wait, hold on. But watch this. But watch this, pastor. But watch this, pastor. That's just me interpreting the Old Testament with the Old Testament. You are interpreting the
33:28Old Testament with the false presupposition that Isaiah 53 is about Jesus. All I'm doing is interpreting Bible with Bible. You're interpreting Bible with your own personal beliefs. That's what's happening here. So, if anything, I'm being more genuine to the text
33:52>> for you. All right. Isaiah 7, right? >> Oh, so no more Isaiah 53. Okay, we go to Isaiah 7. Isaiah 7:14. >> Well, you can't Listen, this is the point. >> It's It's okay. It's It's okay. No, don't don't worry. Don't don't worry. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. It's fine. Isaiah 7:14, right? >> You can't expect me to explain 53
34:08without bringing any other verses. So, you That's what you >> No, I agree. I I agree. Bring other verses. Isaiah Isaiah 7:14. I I already gave you the verse. You don't need to check if it's 14. I have it in front of me, man. Therefore, the Lord himself will give you a sign. The virgin will conceive and give birth to a
34:25son, and he shall be called Emanuel. Or sorry, she shall call him Emanuel. >> I quoted it almost like the New Testament. >> What does Emanuel mean? >> Emanuel. Uh, what does Emanuel mean? Uh, God is with us. >> Okay. God is with us. Was Jesus ever called Emanuel in the New Testament?
34:45>> Why would why would they call him Emanuel? >> Because because Isaiah 7:14 says that she will call him Emanuel, meaning Mary would call Jesus Emanuel. Is there any verse where Jesus is called Emanuel by Mary? >> No. >> Okay. So then this isn't about Jesus because the verse says that the woman who gives birth to him will call him
35:04Emanuel. So then this isn't about Jesus because Mary never calls Jesus Emanuel. That that doesn't that doesn't mean that. Do you understand the translation? Emanuel, God with us. >> Yeah. No. Emanuel is a name that has a meaning. Just like Zachariah means Yahweh. Wait, hold on. Just like like Emmanuel means God is with us. Zachariah
35:25means Yahweh remembers. All of these names have meanings, right? >> Where does the Bible state that Mary spoke? >> What? What are you talking about? Where does the Bible state that that Mary spoke? >> Wait, does does Mary never speak in the Bible? >> No, I'm saying where where does it say that where she has spoken? Where?
35:45>> Oh, the verse Isaiah 7:14 says that the virgin will conceive in and give birth to a son and she will call him Emanuel. So the virgin, which you believe is Mary, will call him Emanuel. Give me one verse in the New Testament where Mary calls Jesus Emanuel. I just told you there is any. But
36:06>> exactly. So, so since there is none, Jesus does not fulfill Isaiah 7:14. It's not about Jesus because the prophecy according to you, since it's a prophecy, we can refute that it's a prophecy when we go to the next chapter. >> So, who was the born born of a virgin? >> Oh, I I don't even believe that this
36:19actually means virgin. The Hebrew word just means young woman. And in some context, it literally in some context young woman, virgin, prostitute in some context. So Mary so Mary now Mary's not the father the mother of Jesus now >> Mary is the mother of Jesus but Mary is not being spoken about in Isaiah 7:14
36:40>> and where who's it speaking about? >> That's a good question. We can go to the next chapter because the next chapter actually answers that question. Let's go to Isaiah 8. Wait, no. No. Well, again, we're going to interpret the Old Testament with the Old Testament. Look at this. You Wait, you want to know who Emanuel is?
36:54>> I want people to I WANT THE PEOPLE >> NO, I I I Yeah, I want the people to listen, too. You want to know who Emanuel is? The next chapter tells us. >> It says God. >> The next chapter. Wait, hold on. Emmanuel. And the next chapter tells us who Emanuel is. In Isaiah 8 verse 8, it
37:10says it will overflow all of its channels, run over all its banks, and sweep on into Judah. >> I'm sorry. Isaiah what? >> Isaiah 8 verse 8. >> Okay. Isaiah 8:8 says, "And sweep on into Judah, swirling over it, passing through it, and reaching up to the neck.
37:31Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land, Emmanuel." So, who is being spoken about in Isaiah 8:8? Do you want to take a look at the context, pastor, and tell me? >> I mean, you tell me. You say, >> "Wait, no, no, wait. You're you're the pastor. I want you to tell me who who is
37:51being spoken about here. >> No, but you're >> Who is your land? Wait, hold on. Who is your land? >> Interpretation. >> Wait, hold on. Who is your land? Wait, no, no, no. It's not the interpretation. I just read the verse. I just read the verse. So, tell me what's it about. >> No, but you're bringing the
38:04interpretation. Um, >> wait. I didn't I didn't interpret anything. I I didn't interpret anything. I'm I'm telling you. I gave you the verse. Now, I want you to interpret it for me since you're a pastor. Isaiah 8:8 says, "Its outspread wings will cover the breadth of your land, Emmanuel." Who is Emanuel here?
38:28Let me respond to a sex. Hello. Who's Emanuel >> in Isaiah 88? Who is being addressed as Emanuel? I'm >> I'm reading that now. >> No worries. Okay.
39:06It's talking about the I believe the imperial of uh uh Assyria. Correct. >> So So who's being addressed as Emanuel here when it says your land Emmanuel?
39:39If if you if you want, I can I can tell you. Hello.
40:00Hello. Um, >> you sir, are you looking up? You there? >> Oh, no. I I I was waiting for you to
40:23answer. I'm texting somebody, [laughter] bro. >> Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Okay. >> I'm I'm texting somebody. Are you Are I told you to answer? So, >> Okay. I just >> I [laughter] thought you were getting the answer for me. >> I just answered. It's talking about It's talking about a divine title. It's talking about Wait. So, so Isaiah 88 is a prophecy.
40:40>> No, no, no. What I'm saying is it's it's talking about a divine title. >> I didn't ask you. I said when it No, no. When it says your land, Emmanuel, who who's land, whose land? Who's Emanuel here in Isaiah 88? I want I need you to tell me, pastor. I I I would love to give you the
41:02answers, but you know, since you're a pastor, I would expect that you know the Bible better than me. >> No, no, no. Listen, I just told you it's a prophetic sign, JUST LIKE YOU. >> WAIT, SHOW WAIT, SO Isaiah 88 is a prophecy? >> I didn't say that. I said it's a prophetic sign. >> I did. Wait, I didn't ask you that. I
41:19asked, "Is Isaiah A8 a prophecy?" >> It it it was. >> So Isaiah Aa is a prophetic. It's a prophecy. >> Okay. You know, I'll I'll break it down easier for you. In Isaiah 8 at wait in
41:42Isaiah 8:8 at the beginning it says the Lord said to me this is the very first verse the Lord said to me >> I don't use I don't use tragedy BT by the way for all you follow for all you watching. >> Sure sure mate. All right that's for sure man. All right so in Isaiah 88 the
41:57very first verse says the Lord said to me take a large scroll and write on it with an ordinary pen. So who who who is the Lord said to me? Who is me here? Isaiah. Correct. >> Okay. >> I'm asking you. >> Wait. No. No. I'm Why are you asking me
42:19if it's right? I'm not the pastor. You're the pastor. >> Brother. Brother. You're the pastor. >> Brother. No. I'm not explaining myself. I'm reading the Bible and I'm asking you questions about the Bible. Pastor, don't ask me questions about the Bible. This is your book, bro. >> This is I'm not leading a Bible study here. I'm just talking, bro. But in
42:37order for you in order for you to have a debate, you how are you how are you basically how are you able to falsify Christianity? How are you what what what what gives you that um you know that certainty? >> I'm sorry. What did you say?
42:57>> What gives you what gives you that certainty that that Christianity is false? >> Oh, wait. So So now you want to tell I want you want me to tell you why Christianity is false? Okay, I'll tell you why. I I'll tell you why. I'm gonna I'mma hit you with something. I'mma hit you with something. So, you said that blemish. Wait, whoa,
43:14whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You asked me a question, so I'm going to answer the question. You said that Jesus was the blemishless lamb that was sacrificed for the sins of mankind because he was sinless. >> Exactly. >> What if I told you that the Bible says that Jesus lied? >> Is lying a sin? >> Jesus did. Is lying a sin, pastor?
43:36>> Jesus lied. [laughter] >> Is lying a sin, pastor? What if I showed you a verse that says Jesus lied? Man, >> show me this verse. >> All right, pastor. Let's get to it. So, in the book of Matthew, in the book of Matthew, let's go to chapter 26, >> verses 29-30. >> We're we're we're going to take you to
43:57Bible study, pastor. You ready? >> Hey. Hey, listen, man. You You can try. You can try. Oh, I'm I'm not going to try, brother. I I don't need to try. We're just reading. >> Uh, now Jesus is a liar. >> No, no, no, no. My Jesus isn't a liar. Your book slanders him and calls him a liar. That's the distinction. In the
44:15book of Matthew 28, sorry, chapter 6 28-30, it says, this is Jesus at the last supper, right? He's sitting with the 12 disciples, correct? At the last supper. What? >> 26:es 28-30. Wait, wait. You said Matthew 6. >> No, no, no. Matthew 26.
44:38>> Oh. Oh, I'm sorry. >> Chapter Yeah. Chapter 26:es 28-30. It says, this is Jesus sitting with the 12 disciples, right? And this is at the last supper. And it says, "This is my blood of the covenant which is poured out for the many for the forgiveness of sins." >> So, he raises his Wait, hold on. I'm in
44:59the middle of speaking. He raises his cup and he says, "This is my blood of the covenant." What's in the cup? >> Wine. >> Exactly. And he says, "I tell you, I will not drink of the fruit of the vine from now until that day when I drink it
45:19new with you in my father's kingdom." What's the fruit of the vine? What does wine come from? grapes. >> Okay, so the fruit of the vine is grapes. Jesus says that he will not drink from the fruit of the vine from now, meaning the last supper up until
45:39when he's in his father's kingdom in heaven. Correct. >> That's what you're saying. I'm I mean, go ahead. I'm asking the point across. I don't I don't know where you're trying to get to. >> No, it's okay. I'm asking is that what Jesus is that what Jesus is saying in these verses? He's saying that he will not drink from the fruit of the vine
45:56from now until he's in heaven with the disciples. That's what it says here. But let's let's see what's the interpret your interpretation and I'll tell you mine. >> Okay. So Jesus says that he will not drink from the fruit of the vine from now until he's in heaven. Do you agree with my interpretation? >> That's what it says. I don't agree with
46:14your interpretation because >> but I haven't but I haven't given you an Wait, but I haven't given you an interpretation. I just read. I'm not interpreting yet. >> Now >> you just asked But you asked me. >> Yeah. Yeah. Do Do you agree so far? I I agree with what it says, but I don't agree with what you're going to your
46:30interpretation. Why? >> How How do you know? Wait, how do you know that? I don't You don't agree with my interpretation when I haven't even given you an interpretation yet? >> No, I'm saying I'm not going to agree because you're saying, do you agree that he's saying that he's not going to drink from this? >> You understand what I'm saying?
46:45>> No, I don't. I'm asking you is does is Jesus saying I will not drink from the fruit of the vine meaning grapes from now until I'm in heaven with the 12. Is that what he's saying? >> That that's what it says >> exactly. Now let's go to the book of John. Remember he's not going to drink
47:01from the fruit of the vine. Right. From now until he's in heaven with the 12. >> Okay. John what? >> John I think it's John 19. Let's check. >> Okay. John. >> Yeah I'm I was right. It is John 19. It's been a while since I ran this argument. Let's start from verse 26 and let's go all the way to 20. I don't know
47:18like 28 or 29. >> Okay. John >> John 19. >> Okay. >> And you don't care what translation, right? >> Um >> or do you prefer a specific translation? What's up? >> Go ahead. I mean >> Oh, you don't mind? Okay, it's fine. We'll just do whatever pops up then.
47:40Hope you don't mind NIV, brother, because it seems like that's what's going to have to be. >> It reads, yeah, John 19 26 26- 29. It reads, >> "When Jesus saw his mother there, and the disciple," so this is the crucifixion. Remember this is the crucifixion event. "And the disciple whom he loved standing nearby, he said
48:03to her,"Woman, here is your son." And to the disciple, here is your mother. From that time on, this disciple took her into the home. Into his home, sorry. Later, knowing that everything had now been finished, and so that the scripture would be fulfilled, Jesus said, "I am thirsty." A jar of
48:24wine vinegar was there. So they soaked a sponge in it, put the sponge on a stock of highop, and lifted it to Jesus's lips. And after he received it, let's go to verse 30. And after he received it, he said, "It is finished." And he bowed his
48:45head and gave up his spirit. Jesus says he's not going to drink from the fruit of the vine, meaning grapes. Wine vinegar is from the fruit of the vine. Meaning Jesus, according to the Bible, lied and drank from the fruit of the vine before he entered heaven with the 12 disciples.
49:07That's your That's your interpretation. >> Refute it. Yeah. >> That he drank wine. >> No, he drank No, no, no. He drank from the fruit of the vine. >> No, no, no. When he That wasn't my interpretation. I said he drank from the fruit of the vine. Meaning he drank from grapes. >> And he said he was not going to drink
49:22from the fruit of the vine. >> But it's they didn't give him wine. They gave him vinegar. >> It doesn't matter. He said he's not going to He didn't say I'm not going to drink wine. He said I'm not going to drink from the fruit of the vine. Meaning grapes. You're misinterpreting it. You're That's >> I'm not I'm not misinterpreting it. I'm
49:39reading Jesus verbatim. He says, "I will No, no, no, no, no, no. I'm not misinterpreting anything. I'm going to read the verse again. I will not drink from the fruit of the vine from now until that day when I drink it a new with you in my father's kingdom." He doesn't say, "I'm not going to drink from wine." He said, "I'm not going to
49:58drink from the fruit of the vine, which is grapes." So Jesus is saying, "I will not drink anything which comes from the fruit of the vine from now until I'm in my father's kingdom, which is heaven with you." Jesus drinks from the fruit of the vine in John 19. Man, there's no getting away from it. >> That's not That's
50:15I mean, if you want to consider him that him a liar, >> no, I I don't consider him a liar. No, no, no. I don't I don't consider him a liar. Wait, no, no, no. I I don't consider him a liar. The Bible says it. >> I don't believe the Bible when it says Jesus is a liar. I don't believe Jesus
50:29did this. So, so is Okay. I don't want to I don't want to >> So, are you going to answer? Wait, are are you going to answer? Jesus says he's not Okay. So, so then tell me what it means. Jesus says he's not going to drink from the fruit. Wait, hold on. Jesus says he's not going to drink from
50:47the fruit of the vine. >> The fruit of the vine is grapes. Does wine vinegar come from grapes? >> Wine vinegar. >> Yes. Does wine vinegar come from grapes? [laughter] Answer the question. Does wine vinegar come from the fruit of the vine? Man,
51:10>> uh, does it? I don't know. You tell me. Does >> The answer is yes. Wine vinegar comes from grapes, brother. >> That's a prophecy fulfilled. That's a >> Yeah, it's from the book of Psalms. Yes, it's from the book of Psalms. >> It's a prophecy fulfilled. >> Yes, it's from the book of Psalms. Wait. Yeah, I agree. It's It's from Wait, I
51:27agree. It's from the book of Psalms. It doesn't change the fact that he promised that he wasn't going to drink from the fruit of the vine. He goes against it, which means he's a liar. >> Okay. Okay. So, let's go back to Matthew. Do you know? >> No. No. No. No. No. No. No. I I You're not going to interpret it. You're going
51:40to read the verse from Adam. Does he say he's not going to drink from the fruit of the vine? >> This Did he say that in Matthew? [clears throat] You're saying? >> Yes. Does Jesus say, "I will not drink from the fruit of the vine from now until I'm with you in my father's kingdom." >> Yes. He clearly says that.
51:54>> What's the fruit of the vine? [laughter] Stop laughing. Answer the question. What's the fruit of the vine? >> You're you're misinterp >> I'm not misinterpreting anything. I'm asking you what the verse says. What's the fruit of the vine? [laughter] >> Grapes. >> Okay. So Jesus says you will not drink from grapes. Does wine vinegar come from
52:09grapes? >> Uh um if that's if that's what you know that's what you're saying. [laughter] >> Does wine vinegar come from grapes? Stop nervously laughing and answer the question. >> No, it's not. It's not nervously laughing. >> Yeah, it is nervous laughter. Does wine vinegar come from the fruit of the vine? >> Hey, listen. So, that's what I said. I
52:29said you said yes. >> I'm not I'm not asking you what I said. I'm asking you what is true. Does wine vinegar come from the fruit of the vine? >> I don't know what vinegar they they they gave them. I wasn't there. >> Okay. >> I'm not >> Okay. So, I'll tell you the Greek I'll Okay, then I'll teach you. So, the Greek
52:48word here is okos. Oxos comes from wine and wine comes from grapes. Meaning yes, in John 19, the wine vinegar came from the fruit of the vine. Simple as that.
53:13Pastor, where are you?