Full transcript
0:00Hey friends, how we doing? Welcome back
0:02to the New Evangelicals. My name is Tim.
0:04I'm the founder of the organization.
0:06Happy Pride Month to all of you out
0:08there. Today I wanted to share my story
0:11of how I went from a non-affirming
0:13position as a conservative Christian to
0:16a Christian who fully embraces the LGBTQ
0:19plus community. Before I do that, heads
0:22up. We do have some new merch I wanted
0:24to share with you. I I usually wear this
0:25shirt, but I've worn it so much it kind
0:27of stinks. Here you go. Here's one of
0:29them. Pretty cool, right? I commit sins
0:31empathy. It's a way to kind of combat
0:33some of the toxic empathy language we're
0:35hearing from our Christian nationalist
0:38friends. I don't know, across the aisle
0:40or something. But anyway, if you want to
0:43look at our merch shop, you can click
0:44the link in the description. There
0:45should be a little hyperlink right below
0:47you showing some t-shirts. Click it out
0:49or click on it. Check it out. See what
0:51you think. So, this is really kind of a
0:54interesting story, right? Because I'm
0:55not sure how you grow up. That's one of
0:57the problems of these digital
0:59relationships. You know me a lot better
1:01than I know you. But I grew up in a very
1:03conservative Christian environment,
1:05homeschooled for nine years, you know,
1:06the whole nine. And um I grew up
1:08believing that being gay or at the time
1:11we said homosexual was wrong. It was
1:13sinful. It was against the Bible. And as
1:16a Christian who wanted to embrace the
1:20teachings of Christianity, I believed it
1:24because at the time I thought that the
1:27only way to be Christian was what my
1:29conservative evangelical tradition was
1:31giving me uh when it came to matters of
1:34salvation or how we understood the
1:35Bible, how we understood certain
1:36cultural war issues. Right? So, as you
1:39would imagine, I grew up incredibly
1:40pro-life and of course anti-gay because,
1:43well, the gays are trying to ruin
1:45America. Now, I was born in ' 88. So, I
1:49was born after the moral majority really
1:51took off and kind of had its heyday, but
1:54I was still swimming in the same waters
1:56that Jerry Fwell kind of poured into the
1:59pool, you know? And so, a lot of my
2:01upbringing, I wouldn't say it was
2:04incredibly like openly hostile. Like I I
2:07didn't grow up underneath preaching that
2:08said the gays are going to hell or or
2:11that kind of almost like Westboro
2:12Baptist Church kind of language, but it
2:14was in the culture. It was more caught
2:16than taught. But just this idea that
2:18homosexuality and the gay agenda is
2:20coming for your kids and it's going to
2:21ruin America. And as Christians, we have
2:23to protect America and protect our
2:26children from this agenda that threatens
2:28to ruin the moral fabric of society. I
2:31think there are a couple reasons why
2:34this is such a compelling view.
2:36for conservative evangelicals,
2:38especially those who grow up in the
2:40church. I think there are a couple
2:41factors playing or um there there are a
2:44couple factors that are working together
2:46here. So, first you have I would argue
2:49most importantly this theology of how
2:51you understand the Bible, right? So,
2:53this term having a biblical worldview,
2:55believing that that that the Bible is
2:57God's inherent and perfect word to you.
3:00Again, it's not said that the Bible was
3:02beamed down from heaven to your lap, but
3:04that's kind of the impression that
3:05you're given. You know, God is the
3:07author of the Bible, and the Bible is uh
3:10basic instructions before leaving earth.
3:13B I BL E. So, you're just taught to put
3:15a lot of trust and authority in this
3:18book or this collection of books. But
3:21most importantly, you're actually taught
3:23that the interpretation your pastor
3:24gives you is what the Bible says, right?
3:28I mean, the Bible's a complicated
3:29collection of texts. There's no way
3:30around it. 66 books, if you're reading
3:32the Protestant Bible, it's not always
3:35consistent. Has really weird parts to
3:37it. So, you trust that your pastors are
3:40preaching or teaching the word of God
3:42and giving you the the view that that
3:44the Bible has. Right? So, a lot of times
3:46you hear pastors say like, "Look, I'm
3:48not giving you my opinion. I'm just
3:50telling you what the Bible clearly
3:51says." So, you have baked into your
3:54evangelical heritage this idea that the
3:57Bible is the word of God. So it carries
3:59the same weight as what God does or
4:02doesn't think about any given issue,
4:04including of course being gay or
4:06homosexuality.
4:07On the other hand, the other force at
4:09work is that right-wing media was always
4:13kind of ingrained in this evangelical
4:15world. Now again, I grew up in like the
4:17late 90s, early 2000s. So for me, it was
4:20Rush Limbaugh, it was Sean Hannity, it
4:22was it was like the first generation of
4:24talk radio hosts, right? and they really
4:26enforced um this worldview that you
4:29know, hey, we can't allow gay marriage
4:31in America. Hey, we can't allow the gays
4:33to take over. I mean, this is just what
4:35I was brought up to believe. It it's not
4:37that it's not that I was taught
4:40inherently you should hate gay people,
4:42but I was taught that they were lesser
4:43than, right? People who are LGBTQ
4:49are just not as human as I am. They're
4:52not worthy of the same rights. they're
4:53probably trying to sleep with me or
4:56they're trying to, you know, they're
4:57they're just sexually depraved. So, all
4:59of this is in my head, right? And at the
5:02same time, I believe in this Jesus
5:05that is loving and that touches the
5:08people in his life who society says are
5:11on the margins and tells us to love our
5:13neighbor as ourselves and to love the
5:16the Lord your God with all your heart,
5:18soul, mind, and strength. And so I start
5:21as I take my faith more seriously, I
5:22start kind of recognizing that my faith
5:25tradition seems to be picking on some
5:28sins over other o over others. So again,
5:31I'm still young. I'm still an
5:32evangelical. But I started realizing
5:34when I was 18, why are we always talking
5:37about the gay people or the gays and not
5:40about greed? Because as I read the Bible
5:42and as I study the Bible, I see a lot of
5:45talk about greed. the greedy won't
5:48inherit the kingdom. Jesus says it's
5:50harder for a rich man to enter the
5:52kingdom than it is for the for a camel
5:54to go through the eye of a needle. He
5:55doesn't say a gay person, he says a rich
5:57person. So, I started thinking to myself
5:59like, why are we elevating and focusing
6:02on one sin over other sins? This was
6:04kind of the beginning of getting me to
6:06think a little bit differently about my
6:07tradition. Now, this takes time, right?
6:09Because again, when you're taught these
6:11things at a very young age, it takes a
6:14lot of work and effort to undo some of
6:16that really harmful theology and just
6:18the perspective that that that this book
6:20that you're reading is a is um as if God
6:25himself wrote the book, right? But
6:27again, this this is the very beginning
6:28very beginning of of this journey for
6:30me. And so from there, you know, I
6:32started I started blogging a little bit.
6:35I I had some amateur blogs. They were
6:37they're horrible to read, okay? They're
6:38like almost uh unreadable at times. I I
6:41had a podcast with two other friends.
6:43Again, completely conservative, but I
6:45would say more moderate at this point,
6:46right? I I I was starting to really pick
6:48up on some of these things that we're
6:50talking about is is bizarre. Uh why are
6:53we always picking on certain people
6:54groups over others that the Bible also
6:57calls out as sin? Like for example, I
6:58thought to myself, why is it okay for a
7:01pastor to say, "If you're gay, you can't
7:04serve." But that same pastor won't check
7:06someone's pocketbook or like, you know,
7:09um, digital wallet to see if they're
7:12being greedy with their money or not,
7:13right? Like, why are we elevating one
7:15thing over another? So, the first major
7:18crack that led me to really start
7:20reconsidering my positions.
7:23You're going to laugh, but it was the
7:24first time I met a gay person in real
7:26life. I know now that sounds wild, like,
7:28wait, what? What are you talking about?
7:30you know, it's it's just very normal to
7:32meet folks who are queer. But at the
7:34time for me, I was in such a bubble that
7:36it was unheard of. And when I was uh I
7:39don't know, 17 or 18, I got my first big
7:41boy job working at Starbucks. I used to
7:43work the overnight shifts there. They
7:45used to have a 24-hour Starbucks in my
7:46area. And um one of my co-workers, his
7:49name was Joey, and I'm allowed to share
7:51the story publicly. Uh that that's his
7:53nickname. And he was gay. He was gay.
7:56And when I first found out, I thought,
7:57"Oh my god, I've been warned. I've been
8:00warned about the gays. This person is
8:02going to try to sleep with me or this
8:04person is super immoral. Probably likes
8:07to just have crazy sex all over the
8:09place. And I don't know. I just had all
8:11these assumptions that were baked into
8:12my psyche about who this person is,
8:14right? There's no way this person cares
8:15about important things and he just wants
8:18to party probably. Maybe drugs are
8:20involved. I don't know. It sounds
8:21terrible to say, but this is just
8:22honestly where I was at the time. But as
8:25we started talking and I got to know
8:27Joey, I realized like, oh, like Joey's
8:29just another human being trying to get
8:31through life. Joey had a partner, a
8:34long-term partner. Uh Joey was not
8:36trying to sleep with me. Shocker alert.
8:38I know. Wild, wild stuff here that Joey
8:41was not trying to sleep with another man
8:43just because I'm a man. Wild stuff. Wild
8:47things to think about. And also, this
8:49person liked um heavy music. This person
8:52liked Rob Zombie. and this person
8:54volunteered.
8:56And then I found out that this person
8:57was an atheist. I was like, "Oh my god,
8:59the double whammy. He's gay and he's an
9:02atheist. What do I do with this?" Right?
9:04But Joey was like the first person that
9:07embodied beliefs that I was always
9:09taught were problematic inherently or a
9:12lifestyle that was inherently
9:13problematic, right? You can't be gay.
9:15That's a bad lifestyle. The gay
9:17lifestyle. Um or an atheist can't have
9:19any kind of moral framework. Yeah. Joey
9:21blew apart that paradigm for me. He was
9:24a great human. He was a great person. He
9:26was a normal person. He also volunteered
9:28more than I did. And this guy was an
9:30atheist and he was gay. And that was the
9:33real beginning of me thinking, maybe I'm
9:36missing something here, right? Maybe I'm
9:38missing something when it comes to how I
9:41view this community. And as I started
9:44meeting new people outside of my church
9:46bubble who were queer, um, my experience
9:50started to really but up against my
9:51theology. Now again, I wanted to clarify
9:53this is was a very long process. And
9:55maybe that's you. Maybe you're someone
9:57where you're like, "Hey, Tim, like I I
10:00get it. I'm there, but I have like these
10:01verses verses in the back of my head I
10:03just can't shake. I understand that.
10:05We're going to get there." Okay, I get
10:06that. But for me at the time, I was so
10:09committed to Jesus and I thought that
10:10that the most important thing was
10:11learning how to love people well. What
10:13what what are the greatest two
10:14commandments? Love the Lord your God
10:16with all your heart, soul, mind, and
10:17strength and love your neighbor as
10:18yourself. And there's no conditions on
10:20neighbor. In fact, when Jesus says that
10:23and one of the teachers of the law
10:25questions symbol, who is my neighbor? He
10:27tells the famous story of the good
10:28Samaritan, right? And the whole point of
10:30the story is that your neighbor is the
10:32person that you least expect. It's your
10:34enemy. It's the person that you think
10:36culturally doesn't belong to your tribe.
10:38So for me, there's no exceptions for who
10:41I'm supposed to love as a Christian,
10:42regardless if I think they're being
10:44sinful or not or if they're gay or not.
10:46So Joey and I started talking and um
10:49even when we both left Starbucks, we
10:51kept in touch over Facebook. And there
10:54were two things that Joey taught me that
10:57really rocked my world. The first one
10:59was around legalizing gay marriage. Now,
11:02as you can imagine, as a good
11:03conservative, I was on Facebook proudly
11:05declaring that we shouldn't legalize gay
11:07marriage. And Joey brought up a good
11:09point. He said, "Listen, I don't get it,
11:10Tim. Like, you listen to all this talk
11:11radio people who talk about freedom,
11:14American freedom, yet for me, I don't
11:16they won't give me that freedom to be
11:17able to marry who I want to marry. Like,
11:18why isn't American freedom American
11:20freedom?" I was like, "No, that is a
11:23good point." You know, like if you're
11:24going to talk about freedom and American
11:26pride and being able to live in a free
11:28country, why are they so staunchly
11:30against someone like my friend being
11:32able to marry his partner to be able to
11:34get the same legal benefits that I would
11:36get marrying my wife? But the other
11:39thing he told me that really rocked my
11:41world. And honestly, I still get choked
11:42up saying this story is we were we were
11:45DMing over Facebook Messenger one day.
11:47And he told me this story of how when he
11:49was 13, he came out to his youth pastor.
11:53He said that he was struggling with his
11:54sexuality to his youth pastor. And his
11:56youth pastor called him an abomination
11:59and told him never to come back to
12:01church.
12:02And that really rocked me. I mean, I I
12:04wept there. The there were tears hitting
12:06my keyboard. I couldn't fathom someone
12:09someone having that kind of church
12:10experience because the church always
12:12worked for me, right? The church was
12:14where I found my belonging. It's where I
12:16found the love of God. It's where I
12:18found community. And to hear someone
12:20tell their story of a youth pastor
12:23calling them an abomination
12:26after they came out to them in
12:27confidence
12:29absolutely rocked my world. It was one
12:32of the first moments where I thought to
12:33myself, uh, maybe something is really
12:36wrong here. As time went on and as I
12:39watched evangelicals continue to beat
12:41that drum, I got more and more aware of
12:44like how selective this particular issue
12:46was with with my own tradition. I didn't
12:48know where it came from. I wasn't aware
12:49of the moral majority yet. I wasn't
12:50aware of like the history of of of this
12:54culture war that Christians, in
12:56particular, white conservative
12:57Christians waged on the gay community
12:59starting back in the 70s and 80s. But I
13:02just knew something felt really a miss.
13:03It didn't feel right. And then after I
13:07quote unquote deconstructed my faith, um
13:09I got to a point where I I started
13:11thinking to myself, I had to renegotiate
13:14some things here. But again, like I
13:16still saw the Bible as very
13:17authoritative. In fact, I remember when
13:19when Rob Bell, for those of you who know
13:20Rob Bell or remember him, he came out
13:22and made a comment about essentially not
13:24thinking that gay marriage was wrong.
13:26And I was waiting for like the proof. I
13:28was like, Rob, give me the biblical
13:30proof text for like how you got there.
13:31Like just use the Bible to prove it,
13:33right? because everything went through
13:34the Bible for me and um and I was so
13:37hungry for like is there a way to think
13:39about these five or six passages that
13:41talk about homosexuality in a different
13:43way and honestly I couldn't find
13:45anything at the time and that made me
13:46feel really intention between like
13:48loving God or loving my neighbor but
13:51eventually I did get there and I want to
13:53kind of give you some of the ways that I
13:56was able to move from this non-affirming
13:58position to a position of radical love
14:01and inclusivity for my queer neighbors.
14:03There were a couple things. First off,
14:06there was a point where I I started with
14:08this. Look,
14:09we debate the Bible all the time, right?
14:12People debate, can people can women be
14:14in leadership? Can they not? Speaking in
14:16tongues, no speaking in tonesues. Why
14:18couldn't we at a minimum debate this
14:20issue? Right? I was learning that maybe
14:22the original language and the word
14:24homosexuality wasn't the one forone
14:26comparison. I was learning more about
14:27the cultural background of the of the
14:30biblical text and the idea that really,
14:32you know, loving samesex relationships
14:34largely didn't exist in the ancient
14:36world. So, I'm thinking, well, maybe
14:38like, you know, maybe we could just
14:39agree to disagree here. Like, maybe we
14:40could just make room for our queer
14:42neighbors, right? So, I started there. I
14:45started thinking about it like that. But
14:47honestly, as I studied the scriptures
14:48more, but most importantly, as I
14:50listened to better scholarship on the
14:52Bible, um I eventually began to to come
14:55around to the belief that I just think
14:57we're plain old wrong on this topic.
14:59Now, I will tell you this. When I
15:00started the New Evangelicals almost four
15:02years ago, my heart was fully affirming,
15:05but I still had these verses in the back
15:07of my head that would pop up that really
15:09made me hesitate to just fully say it
15:11out loud. I was still part of a
15:13conservative church at that time. I was
15:14still drumming um as a volunteer drummer
15:17and when my church gave me an ultimatum
15:19a few months into starting TN so around
15:21April of 2021 to either stop serving as
15:23a drummer or to stop doing this work and
15:25I shook their hand and left that gave me
15:28a lot more freedom to really entertain
15:30maybe I'm missing something when it
15:32comes to the Bible and and this issue
15:34and it was the work of folks like David
15:37Gushy and Angela Parker, Dr. Jennifer
15:39Bird, many others, uh, biblical scholars
15:42who helped me really understand that
15:44this stuff is really complicated and
15:46most likely how we think about the word
15:49homosexual in the Bible. First off, it's
15:51probably a mistransation, but number two
15:54isn't talking about what we're talking
15:56about today has much more to do with
15:58power dynamics and and and and how maybe
16:01the biblical author saw the created
16:02world. And it was through that it was
16:05through that that listening to other
16:07people. And by the way, if you're
16:09curious, I've interviewed almost all of
16:10them on the podcast. You can always go
16:12back through the podcast, the TN
16:13podcast, and find these episodes. But
16:16they really helped me realize that, you
16:18know,
16:20the Bible isn't as clear as I was
16:21taught. These verses that say the word
16:23homosexual probably aren't accurate in
16:26how they translate them. Plus, there's a
16:27whole world of cultural context behind
16:28them. But I will tell you, while that
16:30was helpful in the moment, and I don't
16:32want to out myself as a total heretic
16:34here, the reality is that we negotiate
16:37with the Bible all the time, you know
16:39that one of the biggest points that
16:42slave owners made about the Bible was
16:45that it never condemns slavery. And
16:47that's true, by the way. If you look
16:49through the Bible, it never condemns
16:51slavery. It regulates it. It gives
16:53certain um parameters for certain types
16:56of people. The Apostle Paul tells slaves
16:58to obey their masters. I could easily
17:00see how that proof text could be used
17:03during the era of race-based child
17:05slavery in America to justify to the to
17:07the Christian slave owner why the Bible
17:09endors this position of owning other
17:11humans. Now, thankfully, I'm going to
17:14argue that 99% of us out there would
17:17disagree and would say, "No, we
17:19shouldn't enslave other people, even if
17:22the Bible doesn't explicitly condemn
17:24it."
17:25If the Apostle Paul says, "Slaves slaves
17:28obey your masters." I would say, "No,
17:29slave. You should not obey your master.
17:31You should you should not force yourself
17:33to be subjugated to that enslavement."
17:36Right? I'm already negotiating part of
17:38the Bible. And frankly, it's the same
17:40thing with homosexuality. Even if the
17:42Bible was clear, let's say that the
17:44Bible was clear that in the time it was
17:47written, the author says, "Samesex
17:50loving relationships are condemned." I
17:52would say, "Okay."
17:54And
17:56and I'm not going to allow this text to
17:59dictate, especially to my non-Christian
18:01neighbors, how they are to live.
18:05It's just that simple for me at this
18:06point. And I got there. It took time.
18:09And it doesn't mean that I don't see the
18:10Bible as authoritative. I'm just more
18:12honest about how we all negotiate with
18:15the text. I think one of the biggest
18:17myths of the evangelical Christian
18:19culture that I grew up in is this. We
18:22are Bible believing Christians. We have
18:25a biblical worldview. We believe the
18:28whole Bible. No, you don't. No one does.
18:32No one does. There's a reason we still
18:34eat shellfish. Right now, people who are
18:37in that world would say, "Well, there's
18:38context that tells us what's
18:40prescriptive versus descriptive." I
18:42agree. And guess what? We're all
18:44debating that, too. We're all debating
18:46in the Christian tradition right now in
18:49the in particular. We can even zoom in
18:50closer. the in in the evangelical
18:53Christian tradition, people have the
18:55same set of scriptures and have a
18:59different opinion for every person who
19:01reads it. There are entire denominations
19:04that believe the way you're saved is
19:06that God elected you to be saved. God
19:09predestined you to be saved. There are
19:10entire other denominations that say,
19:12"No, that's not true. We have free
19:13will." And they both appeal to the Bible
19:17for the proof that they're right. There
19:19are people right now that say speaking
19:21in tongues and the laying on of hands to
19:24heal people is for today. And there are
19:26entire denominations that say no, it's
19:28not for today. And they both point at
19:30the Bible. We have to stop believing
19:32that the Bible is monolithic, that it's
19:34univocal, and that it's clear. Cuz it's
19:36really not. It's not. Even on sex,
19:38another argument I discovered that I
19:41found so compelling was that the Bible
19:43has no clear sexual ethic. Polygamy is
19:47not condemned in the Hebrew Bible. Well,
19:49in fact, many times it's regulated.
19:50David had eight wives. No one today
19:53goes, "Well, you can't follow the the
19:55heart of David." They all say, "You want
19:56to have the heart of David, a heart, a
19:58heart after God's own heart, right? Or
20:00man after God's own heart, excuse me."
20:02So, the reality is that the Bible is not
20:05clear on these topics. Just isn't. It
20:07just isn't. Four chapters into the
20:10Bible, Lamech takes two wives, never
20:13condemned. Solomon had wives, multiple
20:16wives, never condemned. I'm just saying
20:19I just found that like as I dove deeper
20:21into the scriptures,
20:23the grip that it had on me of it being
20:25this super clear, objectively true text
20:28to answer all these culture war issues,
20:30it crumbled. It fell apart for me. It
20:33fell apart. And then I realized that
20:34this text was being weaponized as a way
20:37to harm my queer neighbor. I thought to
20:40myself, well, again, if I'm a Jesus
20:41follower and Jesus says in the Gospels
20:44to love God with all your heart, soul,
20:46mind, and strength and to love your
20:47neighbor as yourself, maybe the way I
20:49demonstrate my love for God is how I
20:51love my neighbors, including the ones
20:53that my tradition is currently
20:55marginalizing.
20:57And so that's kind of how I made this
20:58180 from having this position of
21:00non-affirmation of of fighting against
21:03the rights of my queer neighbors to
21:05saying no, I think as a Jesus follower,
21:07I have an obligation to welcome my queer
21:11neighbors. The other thing I will tell
21:12you is that
21:15queer Christians and my queer friends
21:17who aren't Christian in a way saved me.
21:21You know, my friend Joey, he knew where
21:23I stood on these issues. like he he knew
21:25I was nice about it, but I still like
21:26was kind of clear like I don't believe
21:28it's okay. And Joey didn't owe me the
21:32time of day. He could have called me a
21:34bigot and he would have been right. I
21:36didn't know I was one, but he was right.
21:38He could have said, "Get away from me. I
21:40don't want to talk to you." But instead,
21:42he he held space for me and he he asked
21:46me questions that I just couldn't
21:48answer. And he showed me with just his
21:51embodied presence that he was a human
21:53being worthy of love, dignity, and
21:56respect. I mean, it it was it was Joey
21:58that got me to rethink all of this. It
22:00wasn't the Bible. It wasn't the Holy
22:01Spirit initially. It was Joey. We could
22:03say maybe God was working through Joey,
22:05but even then, it was Joey. Joey was the
22:08person that really got me to rethink
22:09these things because he was kind and he
22:12was gracious and he he blew apart my
22:14stereotypes of what it meant to be a gay
22:17person in America.
22:18And I just think that for for me, I'm
22:22really grateful for that. You know, I I
22:24don't think I would have ever been
22:25convinced of changing my mind if I was
22:27just called a bigoted Christian
22:30supremacist online by random
22:33trolls.
22:35I changed my mind because I met people
22:38who forced me to look at my dogma in the
22:41face and then compare that against lived
22:44experience and realize there was a
22:46mismatch and it forced me to choose. Am
22:48I going to disagree with dogma for
22:50dogma's sake or am I going to look at
22:52the lived experience of humans believe
22:54that God is working in the imago day of
22:56everyone and that the spirit is working
22:58through people and that the blessing of
22:59God is starting it started small and
23:01it's working its way out. Right? It's
23:03always inviting new people in. And
23:04that's a theme in scripture, too, right?
23:06First to the Jew, then then to the
23:08Gentile. Paul renegotiates
23:11circumcision in the Bible for Gentile
23:14believers, right? There's this expansion
23:16happening of the blessing of God going
23:18first to the Jew Jew, then to the
23:20Gentile. And I thought I thought about
23:21it here too, like maybe the spirit of
23:23God is welcoming more and more people
23:26into the family of God. So, here I am
23:30several years later. I run the New
23:34Evangelicals. I'm the founder of it. Um,
23:36and we're fiercely committed to
23:39advocating for the rights of our queer
23:40neighbors and to learning from our our
23:42queer friends and learning how their
23:44experience can help shape how we see the
23:47world and learning from queer Christians
23:49and queer theology and queer Christians
23:51who don't believe in queer theology.
23:52Like, I, you know, just learning from
23:54them as people, my trans friends, my my
23:56gay friends, my lesbian friends. And
23:58man, what a beautiful world. What a
24:01beautiful world. I I couldn't imagine
24:04where I where I would be without those
24:06people in my life who have shown me how
24:09just diverse and beautiful
24:12the creator is. Right? This creation
24:15that I believe God made through all
24:16different kinds of means and modes is so
24:19diverse and on such a big huge spectrum.
24:22There's so much to explore. It really
24:24changed my perspective from judgment to
24:26curiosity. I'm just so curious now. I'm
24:29curious. How do you live? How does that
24:30work for you? What are some of the
24:32pitfalls that you found? What are some
24:33of the ways you found human flourishing?
24:35How can I learn from that? How do we
24:36share best practices? Right? So, I just
24:39wanted to get this story out there
24:40during Pride Month because maybe that's
24:42you. Maybe you're someone who you want
24:44to be maybe where I'm at now, but you're
24:46still on that journey. And I can hold
24:48space for that. We at the New
24:49Evangelicals hold space for folks who
24:51are seeking a better path forward in
24:52faith, politics, and culture. That's
24:54what we want to do. And I want you to
24:56know that you're not alone and that I've
24:58been there. And I know that feeling of
25:00of of tension between do I love my
25:04neighbor and accept them for who they
25:05are or do I choose God and then condemn
25:08my neighbor. That's a false binary.
25:11That's a false choice. I would argue
25:13that the best way to love God is to love
25:16your neighbor, all of your neighbor as
25:18well. Hope this was helpful for you.
25:20Would love your thoughts. You can drop
25:21it in the comments or shoot me an email.
25:23Thanks so much for listening. Talk to
25:25you'all later on.