Sketchplanations with Jono Hey and Oliver Caviglioli - Sketch Your Mind Conference, 2025

0:00Hey, I'm Jolt. Welcome back to the

0:03Sketch Your Mind conference recordings.

0:06We are now at session 12 out of 16. And

0:10this one is a treat. Two fantastic

0:14creators in one session. Jono Haye and

0:18Oliver Kovigli.

0:21If you're new to the series, you'll find

0:23all the resources linked below,

0:25including the big Excalibro whiteboard

0:29where I'm collecting notes from every

0:31session. Both Jono and Oliver have

0:34shared their slides. You'll find the

0:36links in the description on the

0:39whiteboard and on the conference site.

0:42Now, a few words about today's guests.

0:46Jono is the creator of Sketchonations,

0:49his longrunning project that turns

0:52complex ideas into simple, memorable

0:55visuals.

0:57His work has been featured everywhere,

1:00including Bill Gates recommending his

1:03book, Big Ideas, Little Pictures.

1:07He's spent more than a decade refining

1:10how to explain things clearly, one

1:13drawing at a time.

1:16Oliver comes from a background in

1:18teaching and school leadership.

1:21After a pivotal moment at a viz think

1:24conference, he developed a structured

1:27visual language for education, designing

1:30books, how-to guides, posters, and

1:33visual systems used across schools and

1:36organizations.

1:38His work blends design discipline with

1:42deep communication clarity.

1:46This session is wonderfully meta. Jono

1:50opens with a story behind sketch

1:53explanations, how it started, how he

1:56chooses ideas, and what he's learned

1:58from publishing hundreds of

2:01explanations.

2:03While Jono talks, Oliver creates a live

2:07sketch note of the presentation in real

2:10time. In the second half, Oliver walks

2:13us through his sketch, explaining the

2:17thinking, preparation, and structure

2:19that allowed him to capture the talk

2:22live without losing clarity.

2:26At the end of this video, you'll hear

2:28the music I composed for this session.

2:31If you'd like to [music] support my

2:33work, you can get the conference album,

2:36join the next visual thinking workshop,

2:39grab my book, Sketch Your Mind, or try

2:42the Obsidian Excolidral plugin. All the

2:45links are in the description below.

2:49And now, enjoy Jono's story and Oliver's

2:54live sketch noting.

2:58>> Super. Thank you so much, Zelton. Thanks

3:00so much for having me and um for

3:03everybody for joining and as Z mentioned

3:06a little bit of this was like telling

3:08the story of this project that I've been

3:10working on. So there's a bit of

3:12autobiograph autobiographical stuff but

3:14also I wanted to share some of the

3:16lessons that I've I've learned along the

3:17way which um may you may find useful as

3:20you go and just because I thought this

3:22is perhaps the right crowd for it. Um,

3:24if I come over here, this was a

3:27something I used to always do at

3:29conferences. Um, you'll find very

3:31quickly that most of my thoughts are all

3:33in sketches. But, um, I always used to

3:36start every conference with three little

3:39mind maps in the corners. One was

3:40questions, one was people I'd like to

3:42meet, and one was ideas or actions that

3:44I was going to take as a result. So,

3:46maybe that's something you could do um

3:48or try for for this in the remaining

3:50sessions. Um, and there's also the Q&A.

3:54So, um,

3:56I wanted to start with a a a story which

4:00really brought it was kind of an aha

4:02moment to me. So, I did a a PhD uh in UC

4:06Berkeley in the states and I was in the

4:08engineering school, but one of the great

4:10things about doing a PhD there was that

4:11you could take classes across any

4:14department you wanted as long as you had

4:16spare credits to do that. And I took

4:17remember taking classes in the education

4:19department which really fascinating to

4:21me. And the standard way of doing a

4:23class there was you were handed a bunch

4:25of reading. And so you went and did all

4:26this reading and then you came around

4:28and you sat around the table and you

4:30talked about the reading and you talked

4:32for an hour and you thought this was a

4:34really interesting conversation and um

4:36we all thought we were very intelligent

4:38and thinking of all these nuanced and

4:40subtle things. And then I walk out from

4:42these conversations and I'd realize I

4:44couldn't really remember all the

4:46interesting stuff that we'd had in this

4:47conversation. And this was that's

4:50essentially my experience with this

4:51person on the left here, which is these

4:53long conversations. You go, okay, well,

4:55what did I get from that? And and what's

4:57actually going to stick with me? Um, and

5:00I think that's very much the same thing

5:01people experience with books. So my my

5:04two questions um which really underpin

5:07all of this project and this talk is

5:09like have you ever struggled to get your

5:11message across

5:14and then at the same time have you ever

5:16struggled to remember what you learned

5:18from a particularly from a book. I don't

5:20know if you've had this feeling um which

5:22I certainly have which is you read a

5:24book and you're like that was really

5:25interesting what what a lot of cool

5:27stuff I learned. somebody asks you about

5:28the book and you say, "Uh, yeah, it was

5:31it was it was a really interesting book.

5:33You'll have to read it." And you've

5:34forgotten all the stuff that that you

5:36learned. And so, I want to stop that and

5:37I want to remember what I learned and I

5:39want to always get my message across.

5:41And so, that's that's part of what the

5:42genesis of this project. So, if you

5:45don't know it, um,

5:47I'll I'll tell the story of of how I got

5:50there, but this is the project of

5:51sketchmanations.com.

5:53Um it is a a slow individual project of

5:58I call it explaining the world one

5:59sketch at a time. So each one of these

6:01is a small sketch explaining a new idea

6:03and I'm trying to explain it as

6:05succinctly as I can uh using visuals. Um

6:08and it's been going for you know 12 13

6:10years now. Um and there's a lot of them

6:12that you can go check out and we'll talk

6:14a little bit about how I got there

6:16through this talk.

6:19One of the things that I wanted to do

6:21both in this talk but also I think

6:24actually uh underpins how I work with

6:27sketch bonations is this thing about ask

6:29the question at talks. Um here's my my

6:32little cartoon of it is some you know

6:33somebody given a talk and he's talking

6:35about TLA usage and somebody finally

6:38puts up their hand and says what's a TLA

6:41and everybody else actually was thank

6:43goodness somebody's asked that because

6:45they all assume that everybody else

6:46know. First of all, please if you have

6:48questions, don't assume that everybody

6:50else knows it because they probably

6:51don't too and they'll be grateful for a

6:53question. But it's also very much when I

6:55think about what topics I'm going to

6:56cover for sketch ponations, I often

6:58think, well, hang on, if I was curious

7:00about that, if that was interesting or

7:02new to me, maybe it's going to be

7:04curious or interesting to somebody else.

7:05And so that's really um one of the

7:08things that drives what gets in and

7:10what's not. So, for example, here's this

7:11random thing. And actually, a lot of

7:12people found this found this useful. So,

7:15we'll see. So, let's um talk about what

7:17what an example sketch bonation is. This

7:21is probably one of my um most enduringly

7:25popular ones. I don't know if you've

7:26seen it before. It's called the the fun

7:28scale. It came from um well, I learned

7:31it from my brother and he learned it

7:32from a mountain guide. Uh and the aha

7:35moment for me was when he talked about

7:37the fun scale. I was like, "What are you

7:38talking about fun scale? There's only

7:40there's only fun, right? You're either

7:41having fun or you're not having fun." He

7:43says, "Aha, no. There's [snorts] three

7:45types of fun. There's type one fun and

7:47these are things which are fun to do and

7:49fun to remember. So that's things like

7:52going skiing or eating ice cream. You

7:55just want to keep doing these things and

7:57it's lovely to when you think back about

7:58how much time you had doing those.

8:00[snorts] Then you got type two fun. And

8:02these things are interesting because

8:05sometimes they might be something like

8:07climbing a mountain where maybe you had

8:08to get up really early and you got

8:10really exhausted as you were going

8:11through it. um or maybe you were doing a

8:13half training for a half marathon or a

8:15marathon and so they actually often hurt

8:17a bit to do but actually when you think

8:19back on them you have very positive

8:21experiences of that and they're fun in

8:23retrospect. So, that's type two fun. And

8:25those are often the most fulfilling in

8:26the long run. And then you have type

8:28three fun, which I've illustrated here

8:30with um going on a hike and getting

8:33accosted by a bear, which actually

8:35weren't fun at the time. And if you

8:36think back to them, you're like, "Oh my

8:38god, I can't believe we did that. That

8:39was terrible." But they always make a

8:41great story. Anyway, you get the idea

8:44that this this is a this is a sketch. Um

8:47a fairly typical one, I'd say, which I

8:49think is interesting. I was watching

8:50Zult's talk, initial talk, and he really

8:52talked about the it's there's writing

8:55and there's visuals. And people

8:58sometimes talk to say to me, well, you

9:00know, yours are not very visual. And

9:01that's true. I have a lot of words on my

9:03sketches. And um it's really that

9:06combination of words and and drawings

9:08which um which makes it work for me.

9:13So we go back again um my training was

9:16uh engineering and product design. This

9:19is a Anybody Anybody know what this is?

9:26No, that's fair enough. This is a a um

9:29Sorry, I didn't explain TLA. Yeah, TLA

9:31is an in in joke of a threeletter

9:34acronym. Um so, uh this is a CAD drawing

9:38of a roller bearing. This is the sort of

9:39thing you do in engineering design which

9:41is you're trying to take some idea you

9:43have in your head and you're trying to

9:44physicalize it as best you can to

9:46communicate it to others and check that

9:48you can build it and things. Um, and I

9:50would say the best example of this and

9:52my personal hero and I don't know if

9:54it's anybody else's but is is this this

9:56chap um Leonardo da Vinci and I you know

10:01many things I like about Leonardo da

10:02Vinci but clearly you know he was this

10:04amazing polymath where obviously he was

10:06incredible at art but he was also

10:09amazing scientist. These are some of his

10:11anatomy drawings. And he was amazing

10:13engineer and designer. So these, you

10:16know, incredible mechanisms here. And by

10:19all accounts, he was also a musician and

10:20and very athletic and good-looking. So

10:22he was he had all the attributes. Um,

10:25but what I really love about his

10:28notebooks and always inspires me when I

10:30look at them, um, is that it's very much

10:32art for a purpose, which I think is a

10:35lot of the the essence of this

10:36conference is like it's not art for the

10:38sake of art. Here he's exploring his

10:41thinking as he goes. It's kind of you

10:43look at his notebooks and it's like a

10:44like a voyer

10:46view into his mind as he's working

10:49through things. And so he was always my

10:51my hero but but on the other hand he's

10:54an individual. So I was always

10:55fascinated how do you how do you be

10:56creative like Leonardo da Vinci? Clearly

10:58I'm going to combine art and science and

11:00all this stuff and put it together. And

11:02when I was uh researching and thinking

11:05about product design, this was a much

11:07more typical scenario is actually most

11:09things are done in teams. And when

11:12you're working on a problem, each of the

11:14people that you're sat with brings their

11:17own view of things to the table. So you

11:18know, somebody's thinking about here the

11:20electrical engineering, how we're going

11:21to build it, how we what's it going to

11:23look like, the ergonomics, and so on.

11:25And a real classic visual, I don't know

11:27if you've come across before, one of

11:29these ones that I've drawn similar

11:31things, but I wish I'd drawn this one,

11:33um, is this example here. It's from Luke

11:35Barrett and is in a great book, software

11:38book called user story mapping by Jeff

11:39Patton. It starts in the top left where

11:42essentially you got three different

11:43people and they all think that they

11:46agree, but actually what they're

11:48thinking about are different things. And

11:50it's only when you try and make that

11:52that thinking explicit by in this case

11:54putting it on the board that everybody

11:56realizes they actually had different

11:57assumptions and different ideas and

11:59different conceptions of what was going

12:00on. And so it's this sort of visualizing

12:03and making explicit the differences in

12:06our thinking which allows them in the

12:07subsequent panels to get on the same

12:09page. And that's really what I saw so

12:12much and I think often what I'm trying

12:13to I guess fight both in my my day jobs

12:16at work when building products but also

12:18in sketch relations to try and get clear

12:21on concept and so we can all get on the

12:23same page about things.

12:25One of the nicest ways of framing it,

12:28uh, phrasing it that I've seen was from

12:30Larry Keely, who's a IIT professor, and

12:32he calls it cutting cubes out of fog,

12:35which is this sort of blurry start to a

12:38process. And what you're trying to do is

12:39bring structure and and and visualize

12:42this so that we can all interrogate it

12:44and make sense of it.

12:46And I've always been very uh visual in

12:49my job, product design and engineering.

12:51This is us at Jump Associates. And you

12:53can see we're here where you're working

12:54in a team.

12:56What we do routinely was you're trying

12:58to make your thinking visible to

13:00everybody in the team. And so that's

13:02actually me like working on some of the

13:04uh concepts we have. But you can also

13:06see the user research that everybody can

13:08interrogate and there's very little

13:09which is left just uh floating in

13:12people's heads. It's like a job of

13:14getting it out onto the page. Um but I

13:17also practiced it individually. We've

13:19had loads of amazing e amazing talented

13:22people uh during this conference and I

13:24no doubt that many people attending are

13:26exactly the same. This is us from uh our

13:29travels and I use you know visualizing

13:32and mind maps and things for a travel

13:35journal which is also a lovely thing to

13:36do sat with a beer at the end of the day

13:38to reflecting on what were the fun bits

13:40of your day and combining again words

13:42and pictures.

13:45Um and then you know I've had my spare

13:48you know fair share of time also doing

13:51sketch noting so you know book summaries

13:53for example or or summaries of talks and

13:56actually the one on the right is a

13:57sketch bonation I did of some of the

13:59things I learned about about visual

14:01recording and visual recording was very

14:03much not just listen to a talk and and

14:07um and get it down so that you have a

14:09record of it but also during a real time

14:13conversation with many people in the

14:15room. We'd have a big board and somebody

14:17would be working on that structuring and

14:19visualizing the points of the

14:20conversation that people could see

14:21during the discussion and then that

14:23would change the discussion. It would

14:24allow people to to hinge their thoughts

14:26on it. So all of this is is to say that

14:30you know I spent a lot of time in

14:31different facets of making things visual

14:34and I worked as a UX designer uh for a

14:37long time and uh sadly my my drawing

14:41during my day job ended up much more

14:43like this and I don't know if many

14:44people have experienced this where you

14:45might be lots of fluid expressive

14:47drawing in perhaps your personal life

14:49and then your your day job ends up

14:51drawing boxes and arrows and turning it

14:54into software which is essentially boxes

14:56and arrows, which was a bit sad. And so,

15:00um, alongside this sort of visual

15:02journey that I was going on, um, my

15:06sister brought bought me for one

15:08Christmas this book, uh, one sketch a

15:10day, a visual journal. And you know

15:11what? I really recommend it. It's still

15:14possible to buy. So, you can go look

15:15this up online. Um, as you can see, it's

15:18a bit battered because I carried it

15:19around. And it's really super simple.

15:21It's literally just got 365

15:24spaces for a sketch. And I literally set

15:28about for that entire year doing one

15:30little tiny sketch a day in this book.

15:32And you can see that they're not at all

15:36accomplished. Some of them are really

15:37quick. Some of them are a bit long. And

15:39they're not for anybody else. They were

15:41just for me. But it was a really

15:42interesting exercise of both doing

15:44something as a real regular habit. doing

15:46something one a day and actually a

15:48chance to sort of practice my

15:49visualizing which was great but when I

15:52got to the end of this thing I thought

15:53well that's a shame to not be doing some

15:56more of this but also I had this sense

15:59that you know here I was drawing these

16:00visuals but they weren't actually useful

16:02to anybody so I was thinking well how

16:04can I make a useful skill out of this

16:05how can I get better at something so it

16:07came to me that it would be useful to be

16:09able to explain things in sketches and

16:11so my next thing was for the following

16:13year I got these little um uh tiny

16:17little Moleskin storyboard notebooks

16:19which I really like. And you can see

16:20that they're really similar to the

16:22sketch a day uh journal. And uh so

16:26that's a, you know, a real page of them.

16:27And I' I've got a a bunch of them here.

16:29They're beautiful things to to look back

16:30on. And so I set about going, okay,

16:32well, I'll take a new concept each each

16:34day and I'll try and explain that. And

16:36you you can see that I used a very

16:37simple palette, which I still end up

16:39today. So, it's just a few pens I had in

16:42my pocket and uh a a shader essentially,

16:46a Copic marker. And that was that was

16:48actually my constraints. It's got to fit

16:50in this box. It's got to be able to do

16:51one a day and I'm going to just use

16:53these three four colors. How can I make

16:55this work? Um and that was a brilliant

16:57thing to do for a year. And so that got

16:59me started. And as I started posting

17:01these things actually, um I put put a

17:03little website together

17:05um well first of all on Facebook, but

17:07secondly, Tumblr was the cool thing of

17:08the day. So, I started a Tumblr and then

17:10I put a Mailchimp mailing list and

17:11people signed up um for these which was

17:14great and and that was really the

17:16genesis of the the project and the

17:18newsletter as it is today.

17:20Once I got to the end of the year of

17:23doing one a day, which I can tell you is

17:25is quite a challenge. It was lots of

17:27lonely lunches going off by myself to go

17:29do my sketch or even catch up on the

17:31sketch I should have done yesterday. Um,

17:34I switched to first of all to two a week

17:36and that was a disaster because if you

17:37got two a week, you can always do one

17:39tomorrow and there's no specific time

17:41you should be doing one. So eventually I

17:43changed it to one a week and I've been

17:44doing that ever since for the last 12 13

17:47years or so. And I'll give you some I'll

17:49give you some examples of sort of

17:51different types of things I try and

17:53explain and cover and the different

17:54styles I get to experiment with because

17:56I'm doing this every week. Um, and I'm

18:00also trying to share some concepts that

18:01I like because uh the these are fun and

18:03they stick with me. So, here's one

18:05emotional hot potato, which I learned

18:06from a parenting book. Um, this is how

18:09how a bad mood can spread between

18:12people. Um, so obviously in this case, I

18:14went for a little cartoon thing, but I'm

18:15always trying to do it in essentially in

18:17one picture. An emotional hot potato is

18:20somebody has a really bad day at work.

18:22They get a ticking off by the boss. They

18:23come back, they complain to their

18:25spouse, and they're rude to them. And

18:27then the the spouse is grumpy now and is

18:29rude to the kids. And then the the big

18:31kid just kicks around the little kid and

18:33then the kid is rude to the dog and the

18:36dog doesn't know what's going on and

18:37pees on the carpet. And so that's

18:39emotional hot potato which I'm trying to

18:41explain here and and trying to use

18:43things again the simple pallet and how

18:45do I communicate these are the same

18:47people and what you know what props you

18:49can might need to do how can this work

18:50in different languages and things like

18:52that. Another one maybe before more from

18:55my professional life. These are the

18:56sorts of concepts I end up sharing

18:58because they're so useful. They've been

19:00so useful to me. This is one from Paul

19:02Graham. Um he calls it manager schedule,

19:05maker schedule. Um I preferred manager

19:07time maker time. And you probably

19:08recognize this thing which is if you've

19:12been a manager, you spend a lot of time

19:14essentially living by the calendar. And

19:16so there's no question about what you're

19:17going to do next. It's like, okay, well,

19:19what's next on the calendar at 10:30?

19:20I'm meeting this person. Okay, I've got

19:22half an hour to do this. Whereas maker

19:24time is when you you you need that deep

19:26work to focus on something and really

19:29make progress on a project. And

19:30actually, if somebody puts in a 10:30

19:32meeting in the middle of a morning, it

19:34can really mess up much of your day

19:36because you want really wanted to get

19:38deep into this thing. It's the sort of

19:40thing I'd have uh working with engineers

19:42a lot where they'd have one meeting in

19:43their diary all week and miss it.

19:46whereas a manager is making 50 of them,

19:49but it's because they're in they're deep

19:51in maker time. So, these are these are

19:52concepts that I've found useful and I

19:54wanted to explain. And then here's

19:57here's perhaps an example of where I

19:59where it probably work best. This is uh

20:03the curve cut effect. And remarkably,

20:05many people have picked this up. They

20:06put it in books and things like that.

20:08And I think it's still doing its job

20:09today. The curb cut effect is

20:11essentially this idea of when we design

20:13for disabilities, we make things better

20:15for everyone. And so you can see here

20:17what I've tried to do is show that the

20:20drop in the curb between the pavement

20:22and the road, which is essentially to

20:24help the person in the wheelchair

20:26actually has a benefit for all these

20:28other users of the road. The the

20:30delivery man, the person with the push

20:32chair, the people on the bikes, the

20:33skateboard, the elderly, somebody

20:35pulling a suitcase. Um, and then trying

20:38to do this in as simple way as possible

20:41that you can get as much as you can from

20:43the text and I don't have to read an

20:44essay or listen to a podcast before I

20:46before I get the [snorts] essence of

20:47this idea.

20:50And then finally, um, this is obviously

20:52a very different sort of style one, but

20:54sometimes I find there's an idea because

20:58I my book was called Big Ideas, Little

21:00Pictures, but there's an idea that means

21:01a lot to me or that I want to just get

21:03across. And what I'm really trying to do

21:04is inspire and and share a feeling or

21:08share a feeling of me being inspired by

21:10by something. And so then um it's fun to

21:13sort of try and dial up the artwork and

21:14and spend more time on that to to get

21:17across not just a a concept but yeah a

21:22feeling alongside this idea. And so I've

21:24ended up with a number number of these

21:26kind of things.

21:28And you'll probably notice that uh along

21:31the ones I've looked at today, they

21:33really vary enormously. They cover all

21:36sorts of different facets of my lives,

21:38our lives. And you know, one of the

21:39things I believe in very strongly is

21:41that um none of us are one-dimensional.

21:45And yes, we might be, you know, a UX

21:48designer or an author or an engineer in

21:52our day job, but we're also a parent,

21:56uh, a football player, a yoga fanatic,

22:00you know, we have all of these different

22:01sides to us. And I think we can be

22:04interested in all these things. And so

22:06whenever I'm thinking about whether this

22:08makes a good sketch, I think, well, you

22:10know what? I like to be able to, you

22:12know, share this constellation with my

22:14son just as much as I like to share this

22:16management technique with somebody at

22:18work. So, um, for me that that goes in

22:21the pot and that's that's fair game for

22:23a sketch.

22:25Cool. So, I just wanted to come to the

22:27the final bit and then we can um go to

22:29questions and we have uh Oliver's uh

22:31drawing. And I know it's how how on

22:33earth you draw when there's so many

22:34drawings in a in a talk already. But

22:36some of the lessons that have really

22:37helped me as I've come along and built

22:40this project. First one is um as I say I

22:43have sketches for most of these things

22:45is keep at it. And so I really like this

22:47idea from sketch and I read years ago

22:50because enough you can see it's sketch

22:52number 110 enough mole hills make a

22:54mountain which is that if you just chip

22:57away at stuff

22:58>> [snorts]

22:58>> uh bit by bit you actually can

23:01accumulate a real body of work and

23:04obviously in the sketch I talk about the

23:06good side of that and the bad side of

23:07that but literally on the left there is

23:09what kind of happened to me event you

23:10know I kept chipping away from sketch

23:13110 onwards and eventually it made

23:15enough to be in a book. So, but it takes

23:17it takes a long time and it takes some

23:18application. So, keep at it.

23:21Um, the other one I wanted to share was

23:24a reflection about sharing and I I I

23:27often think about this that actually so

23:29much good stuff happens which was

23:31unexpected for me as a benefit of

23:33sharing my work. Um, and I know uh that

23:37I guess this was before I knew about,

23:38you know, Austin Cleon, show your work,

23:40but I often think like sharing often

23:42feels risky for a lot of people, which

23:44is which is true. You know, people might

23:46respond in different ways. Um, but

23:48there's a couple of things that happen.

23:50One is if you put your name on something

23:51and it goes out in public, um, you try

23:55and make it better because your name is

23:57now on this, you're responsible for

23:58that. And then the the other thing that

24:01happens is which I've experienced time

24:03and time again is that you get

24:05unexpected benefits from this. So

24:07somebody that you completely had no um

24:10knowledge of interaction tells you that

24:12they're using these with their students

24:13in your class and you're like oh wow

24:14that's amazing. That would never have

24:16happened if I hadn't shared. So my my

24:17second tip is is to share your work and

24:20you you'll be surprised what happens.

24:22Um, and the last one I saw Dave was here

24:25and actually came from a discussion with

24:27Dave about what's what is this process

24:29that I've been doing and I really liked

24:31it was this sort of gem finding and

24:33polishing metaphor um, which is this

24:37this is the process and I think there's

24:38a lot of value in this for many of us in

24:41different aspects of our life which is

24:44first of all like training yourself to

24:45notice. So now I have to say I'm just

24:47tuned in all the time about oh that

24:49would make a good schedule. Oh, I should

24:50share that. I should add this to the

24:52list. Collecting these, you know,

24:55doesn't matter how you do it. I can be a

24:57simple notes file and then periodically

24:59going through those, sifting them,

25:01processing them and then sharing them.

25:03And it's amazing. Um, if you think about

25:05the amount of different projects which

25:06are actually this really simple process

25:09where it starts with just noticing and

25:11collecting and then there's an aspect of

25:13sort of post-processing and polishing

25:15um, which you know really really makes

25:18something that can be remarkable. So

25:20give it a try. Then just very last last

25:23thoughts. Um Z mentions about Bill

25:27Gates. Well uh I I was reading Bill

25:31Gates's uh book on climate and I was

25:34reading this book and it had very few if

25:36not no images and I was thinking people

25:38needed to understand this stuff. So I

25:40was like I could like set of images and

25:42then I was like maybe I should ask them

25:43permission. And so I got in touch with

25:44their team and said, "Would it be okay

25:46if I did a set of images on this?" And

25:48they said, "Hey, we really like your

25:49images. Kind of missed the boat on the

25:51last book, but we're working on another

25:53one." Um, which turned out to be his

25:55book about um how to prevent the next

25:57pandemic. And you can see if you come

26:00through a bookstore and you flick

26:01through it, you'll find that it was a

26:03really lovely opportunity to be able to

26:05try and share some of the quite dense

26:08information that's in there. some of you

26:09know it's a big it's a big book and go

26:11how can I make this more accessible for

26:14people and so I'm really grateful for

26:16their team to give me a chance to do

26:17that is one explaining the difference

26:19between an outbreak an epidemic and a

26:22pandemic in a visual rather than reading

26:24you know multiple pages

26:27and um as he said when uh [snorts]

26:30therefore when my book came out I I

26:32tried my luck and I sent Bill a copy and

26:34his team and he he was he was kind

26:36enough to say some lovely stuff about

26:38that but it was It all came from sitting

26:40down and reading this book and going,

26:43you know what, people could understand

26:44this better if there was some visuals.

26:46Um, so let's see what happens. And also

26:48there's unexpected benefits.

26:50So my final my very final thought is uh

26:54around sketch 900 I did a bit of

26:56reflection about why I'm doing this and

26:58what motivates me for doing this. And um

27:02this quote I learned from Brenda Olander

27:04who wrote this book if you want to write

27:06was what is the purpose of existence but

27:09to discover truth and beauty and share

27:11it with others.

27:13And I just think there's so much in that

27:15whether we're whether we're writing

27:17whether we're talking whether we're just

27:19sharing stories with friends and family.

27:22Um and it's such a joy to do. And I I

27:25feel like if I think about what the

27:26essence of this project is and what the

27:28essence when you see somebody who's

27:30doing doing great work and and keeps

27:33sharing it, there's this joy in

27:35discovering truth and beauty and sharing

27:37it with others.

27:39So that's all I had to say. That's the

27:42project. Um I hope it was interesting as

27:44a journey. If you got any questions, I

27:46think we got time for that now. and I'd

27:48love to address them because um there's

27:50probably a ton of things that we didn't

27:53talk about.

27:58>> So Jono, you want me to help facilitate

28:00this or you're happy to read them out?

28:03>> It would be great if you're if you're

28:05happy to help facilitate because I

28:07haven't been able to keep up.

28:09>> Okay. So the the first question here is

28:11by Kevin.

28:12>> Yeah. So, did you learn drawing with

28:16that one sketch a day or were you

28:18already drawing before?

28:21>> Yes,

28:22>> because they looked [snorts] quite good

28:24the the drawings you had there.

28:26>> Well, be you you'll see I've just

28:28deliberately showed some some bad

28:30drawing some badish drawings ones here.

28:32But yeah, and no, I did I did and I have

28:35always been interested in drawing. It it

28:38was one of those things where I always

28:41liked art, but I was never the best at

28:45art. I was always good at science and

28:46math and sketch is this lovely way that

28:49I can combine these two things. But I

28:51have always I have always tried to keep

28:54improving my ability to to visualize

28:57things but um not so much so that I'm

29:01making art as I said but really about

29:03like how can I how can I whip something

29:05up so that somebody can understand what

29:08I'm trying to get across as quick as I

29:09can. Um, so I yeah, I have studied

29:11drawing, but I've I never I've never

29:13done any significant training except for

29:16on the job

29:18drawing. And um, you know what? I've

29:21improved a whole lot by doing this for

29:23the for the last 10 years. Um, and you

29:25know, I probably spend a bit more time

29:27on them than now. You know, they I call

29:29them sketches, but I I spend they were

29:31definitely sketches at the beginning,

29:32but I spend more time on them now.

29:34>> Yeah. And there's a sub question which

29:36also resonates with a question I saw in

29:39chat which is about do you draw on paper

29:43or and scan or do you draw on iPad PC

29:49um or redraw on PC? What what's your

29:53approach here?

29:54>> Yeah. Yeah. So um originally as I said I

29:59absolutely drew on paper and I still

30:02love doing that. This is an example in

30:04the camera hopefully you can see of just

30:05you know a random page in in one of

30:08these notebooks. Um there was a time

30:11when I switched and so now um if you can

30:15see that now I do draw on an iPad Pro.

30:18Um and I use the Sketchbook Pro app

30:20primarily. Um

30:24it's sort of a lovehate thing. It

30:25definitely allows me to make things

30:27better but it also means I spend way

30:28more time on them. And you know what? I

30:30sometimes look back at the paper ones

30:32and I think those are better. But uh I

30:35if you saw just really quickly um if I

30:39switch back to this one here, you can

30:41see that you actually see the the

30:44binding in the middle. This is this was

30:46the sort of quality I would get from

30:47scanning my notebook and publishing that

30:49versus um

30:52versus if I work digitally. And

30:53digitally is just so much so much better

30:55and so much you know I'm a I'm able to

30:57to redo it and rework on it. You can

30:59have layers. I can fix things when

31:00people tell me I've done something

31:02wrong. So I think there's sufficient

31:03advantages that I I work digital now.

31:07>> Yeah. So the next question here is by

31:10Daniel and so the question is after all

31:13this time how do you find new ideas to

31:16sketch on sketchations

31:19or how has the process to find what to

31:23draw or how was the process to find what

31:26to draw every week?

31:28>> Yeah. Do you know? Do you know what? I

31:31don't have any problem. Um, but that's

31:35partly because I was perhaps fortunate

31:37enough to stumble upon this ridiculously

31:41large mission and and with my

31:44definitions of being able to work on

31:47things where people are not

31:48one-dimensional. I'm not restricted to

31:50one specific area. So, you know, I I I

31:53literally just have like a notes file

31:55where when I spot stuff, I throw it in.

31:57I also have many people who tell me good

31:59ideas that they've seen uh now. But I

32:02guess I've trained myself so long to

32:04notice enough things that I often I

32:06often think that actually one a week is

32:08just not fast enough and I need to do

32:11things faster. So I add to my list much

32:13faster than I tick them off my list. Um

32:17>> Okay. So you have a list

32:19>> you have a backlog of ideas.

32:22>> Yeah, I have a growing backlog of ideas.

32:24And so it's it's a question of like each

32:26week each you know week is

32:28>> and do you take notes on those backlog

32:30ideas? So so is it just a a verd or an

32:34idea or or as ideas come up do you take

32:38uh notes and develop them over time? So

32:40is it like a a slow cook or boil or or

32:46you pick it up and so this is going to

32:48be this week and you then work on it.

32:50>> Yeah. So there's some par parallelism I

32:53would say that goes on. So on that page

32:56I showed you very briefly on the iPad. I

32:58actually had about 15 sort of sketches

33:00that I'd started but not finished.

33:03I [clears throat] also have one that I'm

33:05sure that I'm going to do this week or

33:07next week. But also as I'm walking

33:09along, I'll often do a discussion with

33:11chat GBT to make sure my research is

33:13correct on these any other future one

33:16which even though I'm not tackling it

33:17now, I'm I can sort of iterate my

33:20thinking of it. Um, and sometimes

33:22there's ones where it was sufficiently

33:23difficult that actually I kind of had it

33:26on the back burner working on bits and

33:27pieces for several weeks or months

33:30before I released it. So um, yeah,

33:33there's there's definitely a process,

33:35but I essentially work on them in in

33:36parallel. Sometimes sometimes you just

33:39have like sometimes something's just

33:41clear and you just got to sit down and

33:42just do it there and then. Um and that's

33:44nice but uh in practice I'm working on

33:47many at a time.

33:50[snorts]

33:50>> So there's a related question on AI. So

33:53I'm going to bring that up. So are you

33:55using EI as an assistant for sketch

33:58plonations? If yes, how? So you

34:00mentioned already wanting to verify

34:02research. [snorts] Any other ways?

34:05>> Yeah. Um [clears throat]

34:06it's a good question and the answer is

34:09yes I am using AI now. Um

34:15but mostly for mostly discussion I think

34:18about it as like an a thought partner.

34:20Um so I don't know uh I don't know what

34:23would be a good example here. So let me

34:26So that's still sharing it is let's um

34:30so

34:31if I go to my if I go to the site now so

34:34I pick one which is a bit more like like

34:36sciency

34:38something like this you know I'm like

34:40okay I think it's really interesting how

34:41a sonic boom how does a sonic boom work

34:43after all actually and so I go you know

34:45I read a bit about it and this would be

34:46the sort of thing where I would probably

34:49have multiple conversations with chat

34:52GPT and actually I use the voice feature

34:54a lot while I'm walking to make sure I

34:57really understand things properly and

34:59then typically my process now and it

35:02never used to be this at all. So two

35:04things one is I often send them to my

35:06brother to go does this make sense or I

35:08try and send him two and say which one

35:10of these is better because that's much

35:11easier to answer. Um but very often now

35:15you chat GPT can be those those first

35:18those first cut things. So, you know, I

35:19say, "Oh, I'm thinking of this way and

35:21this way." And I'll throw those two

35:23images to explain it and go either of

35:26these seem better than the other. And

35:28and and it's quite useful for that. I've

35:30not found it yet that I can throw it in

35:32and it will do as I hope as good a job

35:34as me, but I'm sure it's getting there

35:36very quickly. I've tried the images and

35:38if you actually really want an image

35:39that you specifically want, it's very

35:42difficult to get it. Um, but it's

35:43getting easier. But as a thought

35:45partner, I use it quite a lot and it's

35:47very useful.

35:49Yeah.

35:49>> So, the next one is from Dave Gray. Have

35:52you ever accidentally repeated yourself

35:54and explained the same thing twice?

35:57>> That's a

35:59great question. You know what? I've done

36:00it deliberately, which is um I did it

36:03did it just very recently with this

36:05sketch about paste layers where my my

36:07first one was really messy and straight

36:10from my notebook and then I decided

36:12sorry that it needed a a proper one.

36:15[snorts] Um, but it turns out, yeah, no,

36:17I have I have done this twice. I did it

36:20on this this silly Japanese concept. I

36:22don't know if you know this one.

36:23Chindogu. I think it's Chindogu. There

36:25we go. So, I managed to do um Chindogu

36:30twice without realizing that I'd already

36:33[laughter]

36:34already covered it. Um, so yeah, I'm

36:37getting better now and my search is

36:38better. Uh, and you know, in some ways

36:41in in my mental archive, I I'm keeping

36:47most of these in mind, but every now and

36:49then one one slips through. Good

36:51question.

36:53>> Yeah. And so when you, for example,

36:55looked at Shindoko, was your So if you

36:59compare the two illustrations, what's

37:01your reflection?

37:03>> They're equally good. One is better. The

37:06first one was better. the later one is

37:08better. In what way? So, did you reflect

37:11on that?

37:12>> Yeah, usually my more recent one is

37:16better. Um,

37:18yeah, in my experience, I've I've I've

37:21learned more. I've got more I've got

37:24better at the drawing and I've got

37:25better at thinking about how I'm going

37:27to explain something and I probably

37:28spend more time on it. But,

37:30>> yeah,

37:31>> you know.

37:31>> All right. So, here's an interesting

37:33question from Jerry Mikholski.

37:36Do your ideas connect to form webs of

37:39larger meaning? If yes, do you ever try

37:42to illustrate that?

37:45>> Yeah, [clears throat] I think larger

37:47meaning. I don't know exactly

37:50uh whether that's true, but uh I I

37:55struggle with that a little bit. I

37:57struggle sorry I don't I don't struggle

37:58with it personally, but I struggle with

38:00trying to help other people connect

38:03these. And um I had a different ways of

38:05thinking about it. Originally I kind of

38:07thought about it as

38:09um a a feed. So my initial blog was like

38:14you know here's here's one and then

38:15here's another one and it's just a feed

38:17like a Twitter feed. You know it was my

38:18blog. Um and that's just you know

38:22consecutive ideas and they're kind of

38:24unrelated. And then I thought about it

38:25much more as like a library. So you

38:27build an archive and you go okay I'm

38:28going to go check this section. I'm

38:30going to go check this section. And then

38:31more and more I've been thinking about

38:33it as uh a network and let me

38:39and I don't know if you've come across

38:40metaf's law. So it's not specific for

38:42this um but metaf's law is when you add

38:46new nodes the the essentially the number

38:48of connections increases incredibly

38:50rapidly which makes the network more

38:52valuable. And so more and more I think

38:55about the sketches in this sense that

38:58whenever I'm adding a new one, I'm

38:59adding to this web of connections. And I

39:02I've actually spent more time recently

39:05doing this. Um I mean Epan is not a bad

39:07example, but let me just go back to a a

39:10really recent one.

39:13So [clears throat]

39:16this is a this was a really simple

39:19illusion, visual illusion. But actually,

39:21if I think about it, you know what? I've

39:23got a number of other sketches about

39:25different types of illusions. And then

39:26I've also got different things about

39:28graphic design and how you can do layout

39:31things and the gestalt principles of

39:32design. And I'm trying to draw as many

39:34of those connections for people as I

39:37can. And uh you know, there was the talk

39:41about using the brain software and I was

39:43really jealous of that because it does

39:44such a great job doing this. And my my

39:47organization here is wholly imperfect

39:49for it. Um I sometimes do it with

39:52categories. So if I if I think of a

39:54category um

39:56>> you could actually drop these into the

39:59brain in terms of their

40:02I mean the title you can add the image

40:04and uh I'm sure Jerry would be game uh

40:07to play with you in making that happen.

40:11Yeah, that that would be

40:13>> I'm sorry, Terry. I'm offering on your

40:15behalf, but [laughter]

40:17I'm sure. But unfortunately,

40:20um

40:22our time now for the Q&A is ugly. I I'm

40:25going to bring uh Oliver on screen and

40:29then we'll have a Q&A section at the uh

40:32end as well. What I ask you to do, I

40:36mean that's the the participants

40:37[clears throat]

40:38is when you ask questions for to Oliver

40:42then please add Oliver in the question

40:45so we so I know when I'm facilitating

40:49the Q&A who who it's for. So okay. So,

40:54um I think I'm going to take now Jono

40:56off and bring up the sketch note you

41:00created. Um and Oliver, over to you. So,

41:05hi everyone. I have to say that I

41:08haven't made the sketch note apart from

41:10one recently. I haven't made one for

41:12about four or five years. So, I was

41:14really nervous that I'll be able to

41:16create anything. But don't let that give

41:19you the wrong impression. Every time I

41:22do a sketch note live, I've got no idea

41:25if I'm going to be able to do something.

41:28In fact, today I I recalled a time 15

41:31years ago, I was invited by a government

41:32organization. I won't tell you what

41:34country where they had a conference

41:37about their new curriculum and my sketch

41:40note was going up live on a big screen

41:43by the side. And after an hour or so, I'

41:46I'd written nothing because they talked

41:49nonsense. They were talking just

41:51abstractions from a headteer point of

41:54view. I thought it was just valless

41:56empty air. So, you know, it depends on

41:59how great the person is who speaks. And

42:01of course, Jonos was fantastic. So, I

42:04never know what I'm going to do. I never

42:07know how I'm going to fill the page.

42:09Somehow,

42:11some part of the brain works out. So you

42:15had an hour, no half an hour and somehow

42:18the half an hour bit kind of filled the

42:21page.

42:23This is um A3 paper. So it's really

42:26quite large. A4 opened up into A3.

42:29Sometimes I use a very tiny A6 notebook

42:34and I find it drives me right into the

42:38middle of the paper. Um and I find that

42:41sometimes helps me think. One thing I am

42:45aware of is that so I come from the

42:48hippie era and I notice the hippie era

42:52Tony Bizan mind map organic flowy

42:55dendrites brainy woo style is the

42:59predominant style and I really really

43:01don't like it. I think it doesn't help

43:04and I find and I've been in trouble with

43:06some sketch noters because I've said

43:07they're too visual. So for the person

43:10making a highly visual sketch note

43:13which is politely call it organic by

43:17organic I mean there's no alignment it

43:20doesn't comply to any graphic rules

43:22there's no titles and no hierarchy of of

43:24of information

43:27it's just like organic man for the

43:30person doing it it feels very good

43:33um whether they go back and can

43:37understand

43:38what those depictions denote,

43:42what the concepts were, what the details

43:44were, I question, but I really question

43:48whether that they're useful for anybody

43:50else. So, there's been some people who

43:52tried to introduce it into education and

43:57they're really not successful because

43:58they're not there's no there's no

44:01knowledge there. It's just impression of

44:04the sketch noter

44:06the colors the the visual interpretation

44:10of some interpretation of an

44:12interpretation which is personal. It's

44:14not public. So that's to kind of put

44:17forward my

44:20unpopular against the tide view of what

44:22a sketch notes would be. So with regard

44:24this

44:26I did cheat though I talked to Jono

44:28before it's not cheat it's preparation

44:30but normally when I do live sketch notes

44:32they're for in a conference they're 40

44:34minutes and when I first started uh when

44:36I wanted to make an impression in

44:38teachers social media I said to myself

44:42I'm going to do A5 sketch note

44:46photograph it and I'm going to tweet it

44:49and it's going to arrive in the

44:51participants

44:53phones before the presenter sits down.

44:56So I gave myself an incredible challenge

44:59which I find exciting and I managed all

45:01the time. So for other people they found

45:03it they couldn't understand that a

45:06sketch note could occur

45:09in the moment and be complete before the

45:12presenter sat down. And I don't really

45:16know how I do it [snorts]

45:18although I don't know if this makes any

45:19sense to you. You know, Etcher Sketch,

45:23they were they were around when I was a

45:24kid in the 60s. They're quite popular.

45:26There's like a little screen and you got

45:28two knobs and it moves a bit of you

45:33don't know what I'm talking about, do

45:34you? I can do a perfect drawing somehow

45:37coordinating my left and right fingers

45:39hands. And I have no idea how I do it.

45:41So that's kind of analogy. I don't know

45:43how I do that other than I do know

45:47alignment really helps. So squared or

45:50dotted paper helps. I do know as best

45:53you can to if there's possible to get

45:55some kind of hierarchy. I didn't really

45:57manage it there. Um

46:00I do know you need to know use very

46:03limited color. In fact, I've only used

46:05red once because I didn't really have

46:07enough time to do anything else. Um, and

46:10generally unless you have really really

46:14good lowercase writing

46:16and nearly everybody I know hasn't

46:19especially at speed then uh uppercase

46:22will always be more readable

46:25and then you have to you have to put

46:27words on it. I mean if you know anything

46:30of the um research on dual coding and um

46:35Alan Pivio who his research is probably

46:38the most most thorough

46:42in cognitive science it's the power of

46:45words and images because we have two

46:47processing modes there's like the

46:49language mode linear and the nonlinear

46:52visual mode and so it really just makes

46:55sense to use both of them because with

46:57an image it's such interpretation

47:00You take those words out and I could

47:01have spent more time on the drawings.

47:04But the drawings would have taken too

47:06long. I would have added more detail,

47:09but the reader and even myself later, I

47:11just be guessing. What did I mean by

47:13that? What does it mean? What does it

47:15show? Um, so really I'm really got a

47:19strong argument for

47:21generally more words than pictures. And

47:24if and the pictures this is so rushed

47:27that the pictures aren't really

47:29explanatory

47:30to an extent. I mean the manager versus

47:32the the maker. I've kind of done

47:35something like that before. So that was

47:36in my library. I I I sought to draw a

47:40person split. So you know one way their

47:43their logistics and managing and next

47:45minute it's like a different mind frame.

47:47So I if I had if I did this again which

47:51I'm you know if you want to do I could

47:52do this all over again. a lot neater.

47:54I'd spend more time on the drawings. I'd

47:57kind of accentuate the concept I try to

47:59depict in the moment.

48:02The thing I don't I can't understand

48:03that I do given all I know about limited

48:07working memory is at some stage I take a

48:11risk. I say this is useful. So this this

48:15is a risk because I'm I'm estimating how

48:18long the presentation's going to be. how

48:21long I think this bit has just started.

48:23I mean when you started talking all

48:24about the engineers mind I've read a

48:26book on engineers mind and thinking. So

48:27I thought for me that's a good way of of

48:30capturing it. Um I didn't have time to

48:33put down PhD Southern California. So I

48:35thought engineers mind that would help

48:37me and it would help someone else. And

48:38after I put the word E I thought there's

48:40no time I haven't got space to do the

48:42same big letter for engineers. So I

48:44wrote engineers. Then afterwards, as I

48:46was doing the scene down below, which is

48:47too close, I thought, oh, I could make

48:50that into a bit like a cog

48:53all the time, part of my mind is

48:54thinking, you're missing something,

48:56Oliver. You're missing something. Don't

48:57spend too long on it. So, I'm kind of,

48:59it's really rushed. I'm going in and

49:01out, which used to be very stressful,

49:04but I quite like the thrill of nearly

49:06missing something, half hearing it,

49:08finishing it, thinking that doesn't look

49:09good when it's finished, but I've got to

49:11I've got to listen what comes next. So,

49:13it's a real thrill. In fact,

49:16Jono, I'm going to add it as I'm not

49:18quite sure whether it's type one, two,

49:20or three on the fun scale. I think it's

49:23a I think it's a cognitive level two.

49:29>> Okay. Right. Should I ask?

49:31>> So, so, so maybe we can also move into

49:33questions and and for there's a question

49:36from Hillary. Do you traditionally use

49:39this style of person or were you trying

49:41to emulate Jono's style?

49:44>> No, that was definitely trying to use

49:45the um image that Jono has in his books.

49:49Um here

49:50>> you want me to bring up your your other

49:53picture with your

49:54>> Yes. Show my original ones. I've got a

49:58book. Yeah. I

50:00>> which I did quite a serious study but it

50:03was private.

50:04>> Uh my father was a Tintin fan. Tantan,

50:07you know, he read it in the 20s and so

50:09we've all I love Tintin. I know him

50:11inside out and I was trying to analyze

50:14why his cartoons are so good. Um, I've

50:17got a top secret by the way which I'll

50:19tell you at the end if I remember. But

50:21here I deconstructed all the details,

50:24the clothes, the figure, the volume, and

50:27I just drew this figure which is a

50:29mixture of Don Moyer and the great Dave

50:33Gray. Um, and

50:36I

50:38transmutation I I transmitted like with

50:42sorry with X-ray vision I drew what I

50:45thought was underneath what was the

50:46skeletal um

50:50that's more or less taken from Don

50:51Neuer. Anyway, if you take the other

50:54one, I did this this this afternoon. I

50:56thought after such a long time I didn't

50:58know I'll be able to write anything

50:59down. So I better prepare a bit. So I So

51:02I converted those images into um Jono

51:07style.

51:11So you can see that's from taken

51:13randomly from my my book. You can see

51:17how

51:18I did learn one something really

51:20terrific from Dave Gray and it is to

51:23show dynamism.

51:26Make sure the hips aren't over the feet.

51:29So you have a sense of loss of balance

51:30and toppling over.

51:33The secret I learned which I've never

51:35told anyone so I'm holding my breath

51:37now. The secret of El's Tantaman comics

51:41is in every scene the characters look

51:44each other in the eye. Even if Tintin's

51:47walking away and he hears a sound, he'll

51:49turn around and he'll have eye contact

51:51with the villain hiding behind the

51:53curtain. And it's that eye contact that

51:55makes it live and dynamic and human. So

51:59there you see at the bottom I've got two

52:01examples of a person split. So that one

52:04on the left hand side I think I used at

52:06one stage to show I would have put a

52:09bubble above the middle person thinking

52:11now and then looking back in the past

52:14and then using that information

52:17uh um in terms of projecting or

52:21predicting the future.

52:27Yeah. So that's the answer to that. That

52:29was my conversion.

52:32>> Yeah. Awesome. I'm looking through here

52:34to see and maybe Jonah I'll bring you to

52:36the screen as well and then we can have

52:40we can just look through the

52:42>> Well, can I obviously obviously I'm

52:44dying to ask Jono um did that kind of

52:47capture given it was live. I mean, if I

52:50had an hour or two hours, I'd do

52:52something different. But, you know,

52:54>> it's it's amazing. And I love I love how

52:58easy you make it look to add people to

53:01things because whenever I speak with

53:03people, it's always like adding people

53:05to their drawings, which is the one

53:07which they're they're worried about

53:08doing and they find hard doing, and you

53:10just make it look so easy. Um, and also

53:13I was thinking like, how am I making an

53:16impossible talk for Oliver to to sketch

53:18note? And so that turns out no I'm not.

53:21It's it's amazing to see all those

53:23including where you've sort of

53:24summarized like a a whole area of it

53:27into into some thoughts. So um I'd like

53:29you to send it on afterwards if you can.

53:32Love it.

53:32>> It's good you're well organized. It

53:34makes a big difference when the speaker

53:35is organized.

53:36>> Yeah. By the way, I I discussed with

53:39Oliver up front. So I'm I'm going to be

53:41uploading this image to the events

53:43document section so anyone can download

53:46it.

53:48picked the the drawings darker because I

53:51didn't really It's a little bit light

53:53there. So, I'll go over it. Might even

53:54add some more.

53:56>> Yeah. By the way, it's also interesting.

53:58I I learned the dog Neil from um verbal

54:03to visual. He calls his he has this

54:07video about the brick road approach to

54:09sketch noting which actually looks very

54:11much like this. So he says each sketch

54:14notes should be should each sketch

54:17should contain a single idea each square

54:20and you place these squares on the page.

54:22Any the rectangles can be any size but

54:25when you put the next rectangle it

54:27should touch the previous rectangle and

54:30every rectangle should contain a single

54:33idea and you use image and text to do

54:36it. So this looks very much like dog

54:38nails brick road approach.

54:42>> Just had an idea though. For example, if

54:44you had a column on the right hand side

54:46that was empty and you put a number on

54:48each of these bricks these frames, you

54:51could say number two and number seven

54:53together. What's the what's the meaning

54:56when they are buted together juxtaposed?

55:00So you could then go back and then start

55:01elaborating your thoughts about it.

55:04Yeah, there were also some comments in

55:06the chat in terms of the benefit of

55:10doing this digital. So, creating a

55:12sketch note like this digital is you can

55:15more easily rearrange. So, does that

55:18ever come to mind, Oliver, or you're

55:20actually happy with not being able to

55:22rearrange? for a couple of years I used

55:25Apple Pencil and um the I could never

55:28get anywhere near Dave Gay's facility

55:30with Procreate or I think [snorts] what

55:32what you use or something else. So I use

55:34um some Japanese very very very easy to

55:38use. I hate learning digital stuff. I

55:41find it so tiresome. So I find that

55:43really useful. I enjoyed it. I really

55:46really dislike the lack of friction of

55:49the pen on the glass. And I tried the um

55:52what's that that German company like

55:55paper you put a film of plastic on it so

55:59you add a bit of friction

56:01>> obviously being involved with teaching

56:03handwriting for children I know the

56:05secret of handwriting is pencil on paper

56:09because there's friction and in a school

56:12the worst handwriting scene are by

56:14teachers because they're on a whiteboard

56:17with a whiteboard pen it's all slippery

56:19and their writing is awful.

56:21So you want you want you want friction.

56:24You really need friction. It it

56:26restrains you and gives you feedback. So

56:29I may go back to um sketch noting

56:33digitally. I do enjoy it.

56:37>> Awesome. Uh I mean there's and maybe

56:39let's do one question for Oliver, one

56:42more question for you and then Jono,

56:44maybe one more question uh for you as

56:47well and then we will need to wrap up.

56:49Uh there are two questions at the bottom

56:52that I think are addressed to you Oliver

56:55and they are related. So what is the

56:57magic of the lifetime pressure? What's

57:00happening in your brain hands eyes as

57:03you draw? And there's a next question is

57:07is more life problems gives humans more

57:10idea.

57:13Um

57:16>> I used to really dislike experts who are

57:18unwilling to um share how they create

57:23what they create. If you don't do that,

57:25all you end up doing is saying is

57:27showing off your cleverness, which is

57:30fine, but no one learns much. Having

57:32said that, I'm guilty of it because I

57:34don't really know what's going up there.

57:36I I think I described as best I can the

57:40constant

57:42refocusing of right now and somehow

57:45listening to what's going on and and

57:47being alert to a danger that there's

57:49something important and different going

57:51on then I'll have to leave that for the

57:52time being but I'll make sure that what

57:54I'm working on has got sufficient down

57:57there. So, for example, if there's a

57:58list, um, I'll put, for example,

58:02starting off with questions, people, and

58:04ideas, I put down quue E, P, E, and then

58:07ID. And if I had time, I'll go back and

58:09finish off those words.

58:12>> So, you're making [clears throat] these

58:12minor decisions all the time. You need

58:15to get comfortable with the discomfort

58:18of making questions and they could be

58:20the wrong ones that you made.

58:23>> Yeah. And as you now went back and you

58:26you added black to the figures. So I

58:29think there are different ways of going

58:30back. And

58:32what I've never done which is really

58:34interesting say and I'm not in I'm not

58:36suggesting it. Say you and I have an

58:38hour. We look at it and we look to see

58:40whether it really does although he

58:42thinks oh I've I've captured something

58:44the bit you really wanted to emphasize

58:46you know could we do that differently

58:48different wording? Could we make it a

58:49different color or make it stand out?

58:51What about the links between them or is

58:53it sequential, you know? So, there's

58:55lots of interesting ways that you could

58:56develop it. I guess much like an

58:58architect would sketch something out

59:00first.

59:01>> Sketching ideas out. It's a basis for a

59:04conversation.

59:06>> Yeah. Awesome. And then our final

59:08question, and that's Jono to you. That's

59:10from Stephen Anderson. So, do you ever

59:12feel compelled or pressured internally

59:15so to investigate a topic you're not at

59:19all that excited about? So, question

59:22behind the question, how do you

59:23prioritize from your backlog?

59:27>> Yeah. Um, so I did put a note on that.

59:30There was there's a little bit every now

59:31and then I'm like, you know what, this

59:33this I've not done one on that and it

59:34should be there. I should have one on

59:36that even if I'm not the thing I'm most

59:39excited about doing right now. I

59:41remember doing one of those with Maslo's

59:43hierarchy. I'm like, "Wow, it's mad that

59:44I don't have one on Maslo's hierarchy."

59:46So, I just did one on Maslo's hierarchy.

59:49But there were many more things that I

59:50was actually interested at the time. I

59:52was just like filling in the gaps. But

59:54that [clears throat] said, it was still

59:55it was still worth still worth doing.

59:57I've also done many commissions and I

1:00:00find, you know, what drives me is having

1:00:03that aha moment, that truth and beauty

1:00:06discovery and then trying to share that

1:00:08with others. And so if I'm not getting

1:00:10that, I definitely find that it sort of

1:00:12becomes a bit like work um when I'm do

1:00:14when I'm doing it that way. Uh but yeah,

1:00:18I don't know. That's that that's what I

1:00:19have sometimes. Sometimes mostly it's

1:00:21it's when I feel like there's a gap and

1:00:23I'm like that's crazy. I need to fill

1:00:25that gap, but there's [snorts] other

1:00:27things I'm more excited about doing.

1:00:30>> Awesome.

1:00:33Jono Oliver, this was a blast. It was

1:00:36fantastic. I enjoyed it so much. Uh

1:00:40thank you for joining. Thank you for

1:00:42being here. And for all of you

1:00:44listening,

1:00:46it was also fantastic. So your feedback

1:00:48in the chat, the questions, your

1:00:50engagement is great as well. So um we

1:00:54have one more session today with Nick

1:00:56Suzanis thinking in comics. That's going

1:01:00to be an amazing talk as well. So hope

1:01:03to see you there. And for now we close

1:01:06this session. Thank you.

1:01:08>> Great to meet you both.

1:01:10>> Thanks so much everyone. It's a

1:01:11pleasure.

1:01:16[music]

1:01:22[music and singing]

1:01:24>> John way started the journey.

1:01:27A simple sketch a day.

1:01:30A decade of [singing] ideas

1:01:33to chase the clouds away. Turning big

1:01:37complex thinking

1:01:39into lines so neat. From software

1:01:42through education

1:01:44to concepts you can meet.

1:01:47[music] Well, being science bias, the

1:01:50encyclopedia grows. Little [music]

1:01:54pictures spark the insight.

1:01:57Everyone knows

1:01:59he [music] built this visual world,

1:02:02a simple handdrawn art to communicate

1:02:06with clarity and wisdom for the heart.

1:02:10>> Now the story [music] unfolds a special

1:02:14session to see

1:02:16the power of [music] a drawing [singing]

1:02:19for all the world to be free.

1:02:22Oliver is [music]

1:02:23listening. [singing]

1:02:25His pencil is prepared.

1:02:27>> Visual synthesis of all [music] the

1:02:30wisdom shared.

1:02:32>> Sketchbook

1:02:34by [music]

1:02:36>> decade of drawing the world

1:02:38>> skull hand clity.

1:02:40>> The visual flag unfurl

1:02:45>> explanation. [music]

1:02:47A decade of drawing the world.

1:02:49>> Memory and understanding

1:02:52in every single view. [music]

1:02:56Oliver the head teacher knows how our

1:03:00minds recall. [singing and music]

1:03:02>> Cognitive limits matter. He answers

1:03:05Jono's call.

1:03:07>> The work must be explanatory,

1:03:10not just decoration.

1:03:13visual clarity, alignment and careful

1:03:16segmentation.

1:03:18He avoids the working memory overload

1:03:22and the mental [music] strain guards the

1:03:25white space keeps the focus so the

1:03:27learning can remain

1:03:30alive sketch node master building

1:03:33structures true showing [music] how

1:03:36abstraction helps me and helps you too.

1:03:41Now the lines are all

1:03:42[music and singing] finished, the

1:03:44talking questions done,

1:03:46>> Oliver reveals his drawing.

1:03:49>> Beneath the [music] morning sun, he

1:03:52walks us through his choices, the

1:03:55pedagogical [music and singing]

1:03:56clue, showing how to synthesize and make

1:04:00the meaning new.

1:04:04[music]

1:04:05>> A decade of drawing the world breaks to

1:04:09clarity. The visual flag [music]

1:04:11unfurled her sketch punish

1:04:17>> a decade of drawing the world

1:04:18>> memory and [music] understanding

1:04:21in every single view

1:04:27[music]

1:04:28of drawing the world

1:04:32a visual flag unfur

1:04:35sketch [music]

1:04:39a decade of drawing world

1:04:41>> memory and understanding [music]

1:04:43>> in every single view.

1:04:47Draw to think, don't give up.

1:04:49>> Simple pictures, big conversation

1:04:53style. Say noises. Say noises.