CCC 4

0:05So even though the CCC was very well

0:09intended and structured to help people

0:13who needed it to demonstrate they could

0:16become good Americans.

0:18It did also have its critics and certain

0:22weaknesses.

0:24For instance, a number of people said

0:28that the Civilian Conservation Corps was

0:30too socialist. They just said straight

0:33out, it's not the federal government's

0:35job to create work. And they argued that

0:39programs like the CCC would have the

0:42opposite effect of what it intended.

0:44That it wouldn't create

0:47Americans who wanted to work. That in

0:50fact it would make people too dependent

0:54on the government that uh people would

0:57get lazier if they expected the

0:59government to help them out. Other

1:02people in a very similar vein said that

1:04the CCC was unfair that it was unfair

1:08competition in a local economy. Right?

1:11So a lot of people said local farmers

1:15who needed labor, local factory owners,

1:18local grocery store owners, etc., etc.,

1:20etc., would find the pool of available

1:24men spped up by the CCC. and so they

1:28wouldn't be able to stay in business

1:29because they couldn't get the labor they

1:31needed to operate. Um, unions often also

1:36said the CCC was unfair. Right? What

1:39what a lot of unions argued when they

1:42said that that the CCC was unfair was

1:45that, you know, unions exist to advocate

1:48for workers

1:50uh by representing all the workers in

1:55their industry or in their geographic

1:57area. And the way that unions typically

2:01attracted people into their ranks to pay

2:04dues uh and to join their organizations

2:07was by governing who learned the skills

2:11you needed to work in a particular

2:14industry. So unions sort of governed who

2:18could learn to be a woodworker, who

2:20could learn to be a steel worker, so on

2:22and so forth. And so what they're

2:25arguing is if the government comes in

2:27and begins teaching people how to use

2:30tools and how to work

2:33that they will lose the ability to

2:34attract members into their unions. And

2:37this will undercut their power. It'll

2:39keep them from building voting blocks

2:42which made them a political power. it'll

2:45undercut their ability to

2:48um collectively bargain with employers

2:51to advocate for their union members. So,

2:54unions didn't necessarily love the CCC

2:58to start with. Um the location of camps

3:02was a sticking point particularly

3:04because the camps were segregated,

3:07right? People who were black that found

3:10CCC camps did not live in white camps

3:13and work with white folks. They lived in

3:15segregated camps.

3:18In the south, there were a lot of white

3:20communities that didn't want these black

3:22camps near them, right? They saw them as

3:25dangerous. said, you know, one of the

3:27tactics that white supremists tended to

3:30try and use to prevent challenges to

3:32their control was by deeducating or

3:36decentralizing

3:38black population. So, keeping them from

3:40learning together, interacting together,

3:43and figuring out how they could work

3:45together. It was a threat to white

3:47supremacy. So, a lot of southern towns

3:50didn't like the fact that these black

3:53camps were near them. they saw it as as

3:55dangerous to them. And then finally, a

3:58lot of people saw the work as

4:00embarrassing. You know, as I mentioned

4:01earlier, there was this narrative that

4:04the only people who would take these

4:05kinds of jobs were people who are

4:07basically shiftless or unhirable,

4:10who deserve to be poor. That was still a

4:13stigma that Americans were working

4:14through at the time. And so there was

4:16this sense that if you took this

4:18government job, it was going to be an

4:20embarrassment that the people would see

4:22you as lazy. in that having worked in a

4:25CCC camp wouldn't make you more

4:28employable in the long run. It might

4:29make you less employable to some people.

4:33Now, even with these criticisms,

4:37the response from volunteers was

4:39overwhelmingly positive. Right?

4:42Initially, the program was supposed to

4:44have a 7-month experimental conservation

4:48program, but by 1934,

4:51there were 350,000

4:53enroles. There's a tremendous response.

4:56Like, young men want this work. They

4:59want to take it on. They want the the

5:01opportunity. And we know because of the

5:04work that journalists of the 30s did and

5:08that government officials 30s did that

5:10historians have this sort of treasure

5:12trove of responses interviews where the

5:17young men are talking about you know why

5:21they're volunteering to go into the CCC.

5:24Like this first person right says there

5:27were no jobs of a regular nature. But by

5:30regular nature what he means is like

5:31steady work. There wasn't regular work,

5:34so he couldn't find a regular paycheck,

5:37right? There were no jobs of a regular

5:39nature. Also, it was a chance to send my

5:42mother $25 each month. So, this guy is

5:45saying, "I wanted a job with steady pay.

5:48I wanted to be a dependable person

5:50because I wanted my mom to be taken care

5:53of, right? So, why am I taking this job?

5:56I want to demonstrate I'm a good guy. I

5:58want to demonstrate I'm a good man, a

6:00good American.

6:02A second interviewee said, "Times were

6:04very tough. My father was not making

6:07enough money to make ends meet, so I

6:09joined the three C's to help the

6:10family." Again, this idea of like a good

6:13family member, right? This person isn't

6:16lazy. He's he's the opposite of lazy,

6:19right? He's been working. He's been

6:21wanting to help. His family needs his

6:23help and he wants to contribute. So, he

6:25joined so that he would be an asset to

6:28his family. And then a third of one just

6:29saying plainly there weren't jobs in

6:32these small towns. So I joined the CCC.

6:35So one of those fears about the CCC

6:39being unfair competition for labors

6:42proves to be unfounded because one of

6:44the things people is are saying is is

6:47there are no jobs to get hence there is

6:49no competition for labor. So what a lot

6:52of the volunteers are saying here like

6:54it sort of undercuts the fears about the

6:57CCC. These guys are saying we want to

7:00work, right? We don't want to depend on

7:03other people. We can't find work and so

7:07I'm willing to do this work to get

7:09started in life.

7:12So

7:14a lot of the employee employees were

7:18from rural communities. Initially this

7:20was supposed to be a like urban program

7:24but if we were going to say like kind of

7:26big trends we see in CCC employment uh

7:29one of the things we would see here is

7:31that like 55% of enrolles were from

7:34rural communities which tells us that

7:36people in the country were demonstrating

7:39more at least equal need to people in

7:42the city if not a little they were a

7:44little worse off. So they have been

7:45worse to be a young man in rural America

7:49during these years than in urban

7:50America. Hence more of them joining the

7:53CCC. A majority of these workers were

7:56not farm kids, right? Uh so a lot of

8:00these kids, they aren't people who grow

8:02up in situations where and we've all

8:04heard these old stories about well yeah

8:06the depression was on but we were so

8:08poor we didn't notice and we had enough

8:11food because we were farmers. But a lot

8:13of these kids, they weren't from foreign

8:15families, right? Uh in terms of like

8:19level of education, right? Uh very few

8:22of them were illiterate. Um

8:25more than a third of them, 38%

8:28had basically an eighth grade education,

8:31which in those days meant like you had

8:33an elementary education. 48% of them did

8:36not complete high school, right? Only

8:3911% were high school graduates. So the

8:42vast majority you like 89% of the the

8:46young men who get involved in this are

8:48people who really can't compete for

8:52middle class white collar jobs because

8:54they don't even forget a college

8:56education they don't even have a high

8:57school education and that's not even not

9:00necessarily their fault by the way

9:02particularly in rural America where we

9:04know a lot of these people are coming

9:06from small towns often struggled to keep

9:10schools running to provide people with

9:12good educations. Families often chose to

9:15pull their kids out of school at an

9:18early age because their labor was more

9:20important than a high school diploma.

9:22You know, if your family was struggling

9:23to make ends meet and there were no good

9:27jobs to get, why would you leave your

9:3015-year-old son in school to get a

9:32degree that's going to mean nothing when

9:34you could have him working to make

9:36money? So most of the kids who are

9:38taking this these jobs again they're

9:41they're remember they're getting

9:42educational opportunities in these

9:44camps. So they're getting a chance to

9:46improve themselves in ways they couldn't

9:49otherwise.

9:50And then 70% of the enrolles were

9:53malnourished or poorly clothed. So these

9:55were these were people who demonstrated

9:58a tremendous amount of need. These were

10:02people who desperately needed some sort

10:06of help.

10:15The CCC's

10:17attraction and success spawned other

10:21imitators. For instance,

10:25the so-cal the Federal Emergency Relief

10:27Association camps were meant for women.

10:31These were sometimes referred to as she

10:34she she camps because of all the women

10:37who were who were in these things. And a

10:39lot of those women are getting white

10:41collar education. So they're learning to

10:45type. They're learning to take

10:46dictation. They're learning to file.

10:49They're basically learning how to do

10:51basic secretarial work that could get

10:54them entrylevel white collar jobs in

10:58small towns as the economy begins to uh

11:01to come back. This was a this shei camps

11:04were something that FDR's wife Eleanor

11:07Roosevelt, the first lady, really pushed

11:09for. She saw the success of the CCC

11:12camps and she tended to advocate for

11:15women's economic rights and political

11:17rights. So she built off of the success

11:20to get the Federal Emergency Relief

11:22Association camps established. There

11:25were also veterans programs. So men who

11:28were basically World War I vets who were

11:30maybe in their 30s uh found some sort of

11:34emergency work through conservation work

11:37on occasion. Um and then also the

11:40federal government as part of its uh

11:42so-called Indian New Deal uh established

11:46the Indian Emergency Conservation Work

11:48Division or the IECW

11:52uh which um took young uh heads of

11:57households off of reservations

12:01uh and got them conservation work around

12:04the upper Midwest. Right? So the CCC

12:08proved so adept at doing what it was

12:11supposed to do. Providing an education

12:13for people who need it, providing work

12:15training that people needed that it was

12:17replicated to help other people who were

12:21in a tremendous amount of need. The CCC

12:25proved so successful that it eventually

12:29was folded into the Works Progress

12:32Administration or the WPA

12:36uh which created permanent federal jobs

12:39starting in 1936.

12:42The conservation work for young men

12:45continued until 1942

12:48when the need for military personnel

12:52superseded the need to put people into

12:55conservation camp work. Over its

12:58lifetime, the CCC would eventually

13:01enroll over three million young men

13:04among its numbers. So, it was a wildly

13:07popular and successful program that

13:10demonstrated some important ideas about

13:13what people wanted from the federal

13:15government.