Full transcript
0:00She's [clears throat] responded by
0:01saying, "Excuse my language, but this is
0:04what these texts say,"Fuck off. I don't
0:06want help. I want to [ __ ] not be
0:08here. The help I want is for someone to
0:10just kill me. And she says, "I give up.
0:13I can never win." He goes, "What
0:15happened?" She goes, "I was born. That's
0:17what happened." These aren't things
0:19blowing off steam.
0:21>> Sean, you're if you're talking to us,
0:23you're muted.
0:26>> No, Judge. I actually just got kind of
0:28got I actually went to court for a
0:30motion because the other council was in
0:32court. So we uh
0:35>> Okay. Uh Mr. Garcia, can you hear me?
0:44>> Doesn't look
0:45>> Oh, okay. Good. All right. Looks like
0:48we've got everyone back on Garcia versus
0:50Garcia. I have read the uh
0:55uh ADR specialists
0:58uh report.
1:05>> Was there any more you wanted to add,
1:06Mr. Kelly?
1:07>> Um yes, your honor. There's there's a a
1:10few things. Um,
1:13as you can see clearly outlined, the
1:15consiliator had concerns with uh
1:18defendant mother's uh recent suicidal
1:21tendencies or mental health or anger
1:23issues. Um, her verbal and physical
1:27aggression towards the plane that's
1:28occurred with the children present. And
1:31it's interesting,
1:34it's interesting that uh this morning um
1:39it's made to sound like none of those
1:40things are really an issue or really did
1:42occur, but as the court had reviewed the
1:45report, [snorts]
1:46she acknowledges these things to Miss
1:48Harsh. She didn't Miss Harsh didn't pull
1:51these out of thin air. Um she
1:53acknowledged that she harasses dad. He's
1:56since this response was filed your
1:58honor. My clients got over 40 text
2:00messages from mom um of varying degrees.
2:05Um some of them indicated that she now
2:08knows where he's working making bail
2:10threats about his work uh causing
2:13trouble at work uh to where he had end
2:15up ultimately blocking her from that uh
2:18further communication. She acknowledged
2:21to miss harshly threatened to punch him
2:22in the face. I've seen her anger
2:24firsthand when she came to pick up her
2:26summons and complaint from my office.
2:28She went on and on and was yelling and
2:31swearing and Mr. Garcia had to be back
2:34backed away from her because it looked
2:35like she was going to assault him at
2:37that point in time. If she's going to do
2:38that in my lobby, what do you think
2:41she's going to do when other people are
2:42not around? Um, she has acknowledged
2:46that uh she's acknowledged that she's
2:49vandalized his his automobile. I believe
2:53one of the kids was in the car when she
2:54did that. Um, then she said she's going
2:57to start dating his girlfriend's ex. And
2:59I know Mr. Carol represented to the
3:01court this morning. Oh, they're just
3:03friends. Well, Mr. Garcia shared with me
3:06this morning uh apparently a profile
3:10pick of these two um from October
3:15showing they're in a relationship. And
3:17then he provided a text message just
3:19from December 10th indicating they broke
3:22up but they got back together because
3:24she couldn't stand to be away from the
3:26guy.
3:28It's troubling that you would go out and
3:29search out your ex's current girlfriend
3:32to start dating their spouse. That's
3:34that's disturbing to me, your honor. Um,
3:37and then you then you throw in the text
3:39messages which were not from 2019. They
3:42were from just this last year. And these
3:43things have happened more than once.
3:45She's actually verbally said these
3:47things to my client as early as this
3:49summer. I I you can't ignore when she
3:52says to him and he's and if you read the
3:55text messages, I'm sure the court had
3:57already done so uh before. There's no
4:00antagonism going on from from Mr.
4:02Garcia. He's not baiting her. He's not
4:04name calling. He's not making light of
4:07the situation. He's trying to assist her
4:09to get through this. In doing that,
4:12she's [clears throat] responded by
4:13saying, "Excuse my language, but this is
4:16what these texts say. [ __ ] off. I don't
4:18want help. I want to [ __ ] not be
4:20here. The help I want is for someone to
4:23just kill me." And he's going on to say,
4:25you know, you need to get help. You need
4:27to get some assistance. Um, then she had
4:30an issue with apparently getting a user
4:33ID and he said, 'What's going on? And
4:35she says, 'I give up. I can never win.'
4:37He goes, "What happened?" She goes, "I
4:39was born. That's what happened. These
4:41aren't things blowing off steam. This is
4:43pretty concerning." And he's asking her,
4:46"Is there something I can do to help
4:47you?" She says, "Hit me head on with
4:50your car and make sure I'm gone. I need
4:52you."
4:52>> Mr. Mr. Kelly, I did read that. Uh,
4:55okay. I wasn't able to tell uh I don't
4:59recall seeing a date on it. Uh do we
5:02have any verification anywhere as to
5:05when those were sent?
5:07>> I would um I would request Mr. Garcia to
5:11respond to that question, your honor,
5:12because he provided me these these text
5:15messages. I believe they were from
5:16earlier this year.
5:18Buckle up, guys, because this case opens
5:21with some seriously disturbing messages
5:23that immediately raise the stakes. The
5:26attorney is presenting texts where the
5:28mother allegedly talks about wanting to
5:30die and feeling like she can never win.
5:33What makes this especially significant
5:35is that these statements are being
5:36discussed in the context of an ongoing
5:39custody dispute. Before the court even
5:41gets into parenting time, the judge is
5:44being confronted with allegations
5:46involving emotional instability,
5:48threats, and potentially dangerous
5:50behavior.
5:51>> Mr.
5:56>> Yeah, I can I can look right now.
6:05>> There was an instance on December 14th
6:08of 2019. one one on January 28th of 2020
6:13and then one on March 2nd of 2020.
6:19I the one I'm most interested in is the
6:21date of the text messages that are
6:24attached to Mr. Kelly's filing.
6:29Those are all with with those. The uh
6:35hit me with the car is on December 14,9
6:39and then the I want to die die is from
6:4212820.
6:47>> Thank you.
6:52>> Uh Mr. Kelly.
6:55>> Yes, your honor. And continuing on, I
7:00I I find it um I find it pretty
7:03disturbing as is as Mr. Carol says, is
7:06she a threat of harm to the kids? I
7:09don't know. Um um our exparte motion
7:13wasn't about um changing parenting time.
7:17Her expparte motion was more about at
7:19that point in time her leaving to go to
7:21New York with the children unplanned and
7:23us having contact with her family in New
7:26York. We had no idea she was coming. So
7:29we we we have more concerns with her
7:33mental health and what she's going to do
7:34to herself because you have a
7:35nine-year-old, a four-year-old, and a
7:372-year-old would be completely
7:39defenseless and utterly scarred if
7:41something were to occur in her in her
7:43care uh and custody. if something as
7:45simple as as not being able to get a an
7:49email link uh sets her off or coming to
7:52pick up a summon and complaint sets her
7:54off. Um it's concerning what could
7:56happen. Um it's interesting if she
7:59doesn't have these issues that she's
8:01apparently recently enrolled herself in
8:03counseling and and aggression
8:04intervention
8:06uh which is part of the consiliator's
8:08recommendation. I I think your honor if
8:10you're faced with these same type of
8:12factual scenario in a child abuse and
8:14neglect case with the agency requesting
8:17u those t same type of recommendations
8:20along with a psychological evaluation
8:22which I think would uh be beneficial for
8:26this court to know a is she uh what her
8:29current diagnosis is because she has
8:31told my client she's bipolar.
8:34um also to determine if she's a deta
8:38she's a danger to herself, if she's a
8:40danger to to others, and what would be a
8:42recommended treatment. I think that
8:44would be very beneficial considering the
8:46ages of these children uh for this court
8:48to take into consideration in making a
8:50determination moving forward as it
8:52relates to any type of a parenting time
8:55schedule that she would have. So, I
8:57would simply request the court to
8:59continue the order that's currently in
9:00place. um get that psychological
9:03evaluation completed by mom with those
9:05certain questions answered as I just
9:07referenced. I think we need to get an
9:09update from her counselor. What is she
9:11telling her counselor? What are they
9:12actually working on? Um if you're going
9:15in because you're going through a
9:16divorce, that's not really the issues
9:18that I think the court would be
9:20concerned with. Um I think that's all
9:22information I think the court would need
9:24to have uh before changing anything um
9:27in this particular case. Thank you,
9:30>> Judge. if I may briefly respond.
9:32>> Just just a second before you do. So So
9:37Mr. Kelly, the the one thing I'm having
9:39trouble
9:40uh understanding is if
9:44uh based on what she heard from the
9:47parties, the ADR specialist believed
9:50that the mother was a danger to the
9:52children.
9:54Why did she give her any parenting time
9:55at all? Your honor, I read it as the ADR
9:59specialist was more concerned that the
10:01the mother was a danger to herself. I
10:04don't I didn't I mean, if the court can
10:05point out in the consiliator's rationale
10:08where she felt she was a threat of harm
10:10to the children, um I must have missed
10:13that. I did not see that. I took it more
10:15of a her concerning her concerns had to
10:18do with her behavior directed towards
10:21dad. uh but also the statement she made
10:24about her own mental health and mental
10:26well-being and harming herself. Um I
10:28don't I didn't read in the consiliator's
10:30report anything that she was a threat of
10:32harm directly to the children. Our
10:35concern is is her doing something to
10:38herself with the children present if she
10:40has one of these episodes. Again, that's
10:43why I was requesting a psychological
10:45evaluation so we can see exactly what is
10:47going on and her level of of of
10:50functioning uh to determine if if
10:52something further needs to happen from
10:54the court.
10:56>> Who's who's going to pay for a
10:57psychological evaluation?
11:00>> I would submit that that would be mom's
11:02expense.
11:06>> Mr.
11:07Um, judge, I I I I think I agree on the
11:10same line of thought that the court was.
11:12If if this gentleman was worried about
11:15mom's safety with the children or even
11:17mom hurting herself, why didn't they
11:19file an objection to the report
11:20themselves, the the most recent
11:23circumstances we have with any of these
11:25texts, according to Mr. Garcia's own
11:28testimony, is March, that's seven months
11:30ago. from March all the way through
11:33October, they were exercising a 223
11:36schedule. Where's the more recent stuff?
11:38Where's something to suggest that it's
11:41that she was ever going to do it other
11:42than, like I said, blowing off steam?
11:45What we don't have, and now that I hear
11:47it, the way he describes it, where's all
11:49the phone calls where he might have been
11:50talking to her, goating her into making
11:52these texts? We don't have that. But I
11:55do know Mr. Garcia did attempt to hang
11:59himself in 2017 and a hospital was
12:02involved and he was transported by an
12:04ambulance. We're not trying to take away
12:05his parenting time because we're hope
12:07he's under control but we know he's
12:08drinking to excess. So there's
12:11conditions of that. Why would we get
12:13into anger management? Because it's
12:15already in order, judge. The order
12:17specifically says that we have to do it
12:18within so many days.
12:20>> My client's not afraid of education. She
12:22has no problem getting into those kind
12:24of classes. I don't know what the
12:26circumstances are. I I rarely ever, in
12:29fact, I never have clients on the other
12:32side of the divorce, come to my office
12:34to pick up paperwork because they
12:36probably don't even know why they're
12:37there entirely. They may have been told
12:40something entirely different about, hey,
12:41come to this attorney's office, meet me
12:43about something. And and that to me can
12:46never be a good situation, and I don't
12:48want it in my office. Perhaps Mr. Kelly
12:50has good luck with that. I don't know.
12:52But I think that's a little you're going
12:54to surprise her with a divorce. Um I
12:57don't know that that's the best way to
12:58go, let alone one that had an exparte
13:01motion attached to it, which which would
13:04have made it much more frightening to
13:06begin with. So I don't know what
13:07happened there. That's not in their
13:08pleadings. You know, they added that
13:10today. Uh she does see a counselor
13:14because again, it's part of the court
13:15order and she's addressing this. Whoever
13:18the person was in March, where's the
13:20evidence that that's continued at all to
13:22this day? Nowhere. Uh what we do know is
13:26we have nothing involving the kids being
13:28a problem. If the court wants a
13:30psychological order that they each get a
13:32psychological evaluation, clearly Mr.
13:34Garcia has got some kind of problems
13:36going on because he attempted it once
13:38and he's drinking to excess that he's
13:40losing his job. I mean, a job that he
13:43was making 60% more than he is now,
13:46maybe 70%. Uh, I would suggest that
13:49there's still some things going on
13:50between these parties that we in the way
13:52they interact with each other that's
13:54probably not the most healthy. Um, but
13:56that's how they interact. The kids are,
13:59from all I've seen are doing fine. They
14:02love mom. They love dad. They should see
14:04them equally. Uh, and if they don't see
14:06them equally, my mom should at least
14:08have the midweeks because she's not a
14:10danger to these kids. I don't believe
14:12her to be a danger to herself. We've
14:14given you a letter attached from the
14:15doctor she even works with who is also
14:18the doctor that prescribes her
14:19medication. So if we had an issue, we
14:22would see it there. She doesn't have
14:24bipolar. This is Jere Mr. Garcia
14:27unfortunately making allegations without
14:29any foundation. Uh does she have PTSD?
14:32She does have PTSD. Many of our US
14:34Marines do. I bet you Mr. Garcia has it
14:37too. U so judge I think that it needs to
14:39be changed. And going back to the idea
14:42of support, um the support would need to
14:44be changed correctly, too. How they
14:47ordered it when they were exercising
14:5050/50 that she pay the same amount that
14:52she would be if she wasn't, I don't
14:54know. I think they did it retroactive
14:56because the court recall when I brought
14:58the motion for holidays. I wanted to at
15:00least start getting support paid because
15:02they were exercising 50/50 at that time.
15:05And the court said, "I what I'll do is
15:07I'll just make the support retroactive
15:09to August 1st." Well, problem is they
15:12did 50/50 all the way through almost the
15:14entire month of October, but the front
15:16of the court made her pay as if it's the
15:19parenting time she has now all the way
15:21back to August 1st, which that doesn't
15:23make sense. They were doing 50/50 all
15:24the way up through the time of the
15:26consiliator's recommendation. So, again,
15:28either two midweeks in addition to what
15:31she has or go back to 223. I don't we
15:34don't fear any psychological evaluation.
15:36In fact, I'd be kind of interested in
15:38having one on Mr. Garcia. I don't know
15:40that these folks have that kind of
15:41money. Uh now that Mr. Garcia's, you
15:43know, he's making 60% less than he was.
15:46My client barely makes 30 grand a year.
15:48I think that's about what his income is.
15:50Thank you, Judge.
15:51>> All right, guys. Things escalate quickly
15:53as the attorney starts laying out a much
15:56broader pattern of alleged behavior
15:58rather than focusing on one isolated
16:00incident. He mentions dozens of
16:02messages, threats involving the father's
16:04workplace, alleged aggression, and
16:06claims that she vandalized his vehicle.
16:09Then the argument takes another dramatic
16:11turn when he brings up her alleged
16:13relationship with someone connected to
16:15the father's current girlfriend. But the
16:17biggest issue is still the messages
16:19suggesting self harm because the
16:21attorney argues these are not simply
16:24angry words exchanged during a difficult
16:26divorce.
16:27>> Briefly, your honor, um Mr. Carcy did
16:30not attempt suicide. I don't know where
16:32Mr. Carol's getting that because he had
16:35an ambulance ride. Uh that did not
16:37occur. Um instead he was actually
16:39talking uh with Miss Garcia about uh the
16:43concerns that was going on in his life.
16:44And again that was three years ago and
16:46he has since got help. He's stable. He
16:48doesn't have any issues. In regards to
16:50Dr. Van Wagnen, he is a doctor of
16:53internal medicine. He is not a a mental
16:55health professional. he cannot be
16:57prescribing her psychotropic medications
17:00um because he is a doctor of internal
17:03medicine. She would have to get those
17:04from someone else. The letter that was
17:07attached is that letter from him that
17:10doctor who is not trained in the mental
17:12health field. So I think that should be
17:14given little to no weight whatsoever. Uh
17:17your honor, you've seen the text
17:18messages what they are. It's
17:20disappointing that they're being
17:22completely minimized, but at the same
17:24time, it's must be concerning enough for
17:27her to get into counseling. If you're
17:29filing objections to these
17:30recommendations that you don't agree
17:32with them, I don't know why on earth you
17:34would start complying with the
17:35recommendations. Um, [clears throat]
17:37unless there is an underlying issue
17:38there. Thank you, Judge.
17:40>> Judge, the recommendation is an order.
17:42It's already in order. You already
17:43signed it. I have to comply with it. So,
17:45we do. The medication she takes is
17:47Xanax. Her doctor can prescribe Xanax.
17:49judge. That's not a psychotrophic
17:50medication. Take a look at the text. The
17:53the the medication that Jeremy tells her
17:55to take. Take a Xanax just like you did.
17:58That's why they were prescribed to you
17:59in California. Um Xanax is not psych
18:03psychotrophic. That's in the Maybe Mr.
18:05Kelly didn't see that. That's what's in
18:07the text. That's the medication. That's
18:09not psychotrophic medication. That's for
18:11people suffering from depression,
18:13anxiety. Uh there's unfortunately a lot
18:15of people prescribe Xanax um for that
18:18exact reason. Um so there's no
18:21psychotrophic medication. She's not on
18:23that kind of prescription.
18:26All right. So uh I step back and take a
18:30look at this situation. As I read
18:32through the uh consiliators
18:37uh analysis,
18:39I see a highly emotionally charged
18:45relationship
18:48with a lot of emotion after the end of
18:50the relationship.
18:52Uh there's uh uh
18:57ample reason to be concerned about both
19:01parents
19:03uh uh given many of the allegations that
19:06are in here.
19:08But the parents
19:10who knew about all of this stuff
19:16voluntarily
19:18entered into an equal parenting time
19:21arrangement.
19:26Where where was the concern
19:30when that was ongoing?
19:34It's only when it becomes a matter of
19:36litigation
19:39uh that
19:41that now all of a sudden these are very
19:44serious concerns. [snorts]
19:48Certainly the the text that was attached
19:52to Mr. Kelly's response was concerning.
19:55It was concerning to the court when I
19:57read it, but I had no idea
20:00when it was sent. Now I find out it was
20:02nearly a year ago
20:04and in the interim since it was sent,
20:07Mr. Garcia voluntarily
20:10engaged in a equal parenting time
20:13arrangement.
20:15Um, and and it looks pretty clear that
20:19at the time Amy Harsh made her
20:22recommendation, there was an established
20:24custodial environment with both parents.
20:28what she did was effectively to destroy
20:32that established custodial environment
20:34with the mother.
20:36Not that there aren't valid concerns
20:38here, but there are valid concerns both
20:40ways.
20:42Um, these parties probably can't afford
20:44psychals. I don't know what they cost,
20:46but I'm thinking they're probably in the
20:49neighbor of 1,500 bucks a piece. I'm not
20:52going to saddle them with that. Uh I do
20:54have concerns on both part uh uh but uh
21:01clearly they didn't have concerns about
21:03the other parent when they were doing
21:06their voluntary split.
21:09So uh what I am going to do I'm going to
21:13order a return to the parenting time
21:15schedule that they were observing
21:17voluntarily before this order entered.
21:21Uh,
21:23I'm going to order child support
21:25recalculated based upon that
21:27arrangement. I'm going to order
21:29appointment of an LG. I think Mr.
21:32Hotchkus is probably a good candidate in
21:35this case. Would either of you disagree?
21:38>> I have no objection to objection.
21:39>> No objection to Mr. H. Hot. Hotkiss.
21:41>> And uh, as soon as Mr. H.
21:44has a recommendation for the court. If
21:47that recommendation is for a different
21:49custody arrangement,
21:51uh uh we will reschedu this matter. I
21:55will conduct an evidentiary hearing and
21:57won't you make you wait till your trial?
21:59Uh uh clearly there's only one child I
22:03believe that's old enough for him to
22:04really interview.
22:06Uh that's Aiden. Is that right?
22:08>> Yes. The other two are too young so
22:10that's pointless. But, you know, Aiden's
22:12got a point of view in here. I'd like
22:14I'd like uh that point of view to be
22:17expressed independently to Mr. Hoskus
22:20and he'll get a chance to interview both
22:22the parties and if if indeed his
22:25recommendation is for something other,
22:27I'm not going to wait for a trial. Uh
22:29we'll we'll address that right away.
22:32>> Thank you, Judge.
22:34>> Carol, you submit that order?
22:35>> I shall.
22:36>> All right. Thank you. And let me say to
22:39both of the parties, I realize there's
22:43been a lot of emotion here. I get that.
22:47The sooner you guys that, and I don't
22:51put greater or lesser blame with either
22:54one of you, as soon as you can get past
22:57that, you need to. Your kids do not
23:00benefit from being around highly
23:04[snorts]
23:05emotionally charged conversations and
23:08exchanges between the two of you. They
23:10just don't. I'm assuming I don't even
23:13know. Are they doing uh uh council the
23:16uh
23:18um
23:20uh parenting? I forget what it's called
23:22now. Uh
23:24the
23:25>> parenting.
23:27>> Pardon?
23:28>> Did you mean the nurturing parenting or
23:29the parenting?
23:30>> No, no, the thing the friend of the
23:31court did. I'm sure they're not doing
23:33that.
23:33>> Oh, they're not. Yeah, they're not I
23:35think this I don't even remember if they
23:37ever this schedule, but the smile
23:38program.
23:39>> Smile. Thank you.
23:41>> Yeah.
23:41>> Uh there is a uh the
23:47a program that's available for online.
23:50Um,
23:52uh, it does cost you something. Um,
23:56uh, and I'm trying to remember the name
23:59of that. It's on my desk. So, I normally
24:01just grab for it and say, I want you to
24:03attend this. I want both parties to
24:06enroll.
24:06>> High conflict solutions.
24:08>> Yes. I want both parties to include
24:13uh, Mr. Carol, do you have access to the
24:15web information for that program? If you
24:17if you do you have the site there, Mike?
24:19Do you have the site?
24:23>> I got the pamphlet the judge provided
24:25me. It's called high conflicts sol high
24:28conflict solutions all one
24:32glumpto together.com.
24:34>> Okay.
24:35>> And then you just click sign up now and
24:37follow the onscreen instructions.
24:41>> Include that in the order. I want both
24:43parents to enroll. I want them to
24:46complete it. Uh the program will
24:48generate a certificate of your
24:49completion. Once you've done that, I
24:52want you to furnish it to your lawyer uh
24:54who in turn uh uh needs to forward it to
24:57the court as well as the other council.
24:59I want you both to engage in this and I
25:02want you to do it for the sake of your
25:04children. It's very informative. It will
25:08tell you things about what divorce and
25:10separation does to kids that uh you
25:13probably haven't even thought of. It's
25:16really hard on them. Really, really
25:18hard. And anything you can do to
25:21minimize that is going to be good for
25:22your kids. So, I hope you take that to
25:24heart. But I definitely want you uh to
25:28participate in that.
25:29>> Thank you.
25:30>> Carol, you'll submit that order.
25:32>> I will.
25:33>> All right. Buckle up, guys, because
25:35after hearing both sides argue over the
25:37allegations, the judge finally steps
25:40back and looks at the bigger picture.
25:42Rather than immediately accepting one
25:44side's characterization, the judge
25:46describes the relationship as highly
25:48emotionally charged and says there are
25:51reasons for concern involving both
25:53parents. That observation is important
25:55because it shifts the focus away from a
25:58one-sided accusation and toward the
26:00overall family dynamic. Then comes the
26:02key point.