Full transcript
0:01It's 12:02 . Do you know that I am
0:04saying the time a lot today ? Because
0:05the other day my brother told me that
0:06it was really good when the radio told
0:07you the time all the time . I said , " Oh ,
0:08right , actually , because there are
0:09people who walk around and don't listen
0:10to the time . " So , that's why I'm going
0:12to tell you all day . And we're going to
0:14talk about a really interesting topic
0:15right now . I was reviewing the latest
0:17Academ survey the other day that talks
0:19about poverty . There were a lot of
0:20aspects that caught my attention . For
0:22example , poverty continues to outrage
0:24us . We still feel it , it still makes us
0:26angry , but we're really doing something
0:28, we're understanding how the
0:30phenomenon of poverty is experienced in
0:32our country . If it doesn't affect us
0:34very closely or ourselves , then it's
0:36like it doesn't exist . We want to
0:37discuss part of it right now with the
0:39president of the Foundation for
0:40Overcoming Poverty , Rodrigo Jordán .
0:42How are you , Rodrigo ?
0:43Hello . Hello . Thank you . Thank you . No ,
0:45delighted . An honor . Kind . Like a
0:46privilege ,
0:47Rodrigo . Well , clearly there is a 52 %
0:49according to this study they did with
0:51CADEM that says there is helplessness
0:53for not being able to do anything and
0:55an indignation of 41 % among the
0:57respondents . We really can't do
0:59anything . Let's
1:01see , what happens is that , uh , that's a
1:03question that talks about an emotion ,
1:06right ? That it's a new question in this
1:08type of surveys related to poverty . So ,
1:10what emotion does this amount evoke ? We
1:14can already put the figures aside , but
1:16the figures are surprising . So , it
1:17generates these two big emotions . One
1:19is helplessness . I , me , poor , me ,
1:21middle class , screwed , not necessarily
1:24poor , I can't do much , right ? This
1:27depends on the government , it depends ,
1:29I'm going to say something very
1:31interesting , but the second emotion ,
1:33and this is very interesting , is anger ,
1:35indignation , right ? With society as a
1:38whole ,
1:39with a system ,
1:40with a system . So , this is interesting
1:42because the survey also asks , how many
1:45people do you think are poor in Chile ?
1:48And he asks 1,000 people who are not
1:50necessarily poor , in other words , very
1:52varied .
1:53Between 4 and 5 million is what people
1:55respond , the vast majority . And that
1:58impressively coincides with the figures
2:01from the Ministry of Social Development
2:03based on the CASEN survey . It depends ,
2:06I don't know if it's because of that
2:08multidimensionality or because of
2:09income , but we're talking about between
2:114 and 5 million people living in
2:12poverty ,
2:13almost a quarter of the population .
2:14Well , one in four , one in five is poor
2:17in Chile . So , the situation is quite
2:19dramatic . So , if you take this
2:22indignation , and this is a calculation
2:24that I do when I drive , I don't have
2:27much else to do but think , but if there
2:30are 4,000 people , and I'm taking the
2:32low figure , 1 % of 4,000 people is 40,000
2:35,
2:360.1 % is 4,000 and if you take that 0.1 %
2:42who for various reasons are not able to
2:46manage that emotion , they break bus
2:49stops . Do you get it ? So , there is a
2:52connection
2:54with that indignation , with the
2:56outburst , with all this disaster , many
2:58times when of course we all disagree ,
3:01nobody wants violence , but one can
3:03understand it . That's what I mean . It's
3:05not that one agrees , but one can
3:07understand it . I mean , if there
3:08are 4 million poor people , the 0.1 % who
3:12express that indignation
3:15with violence ,
3:17I insist , I don't want to justify it ,
3:18but I understand it , I can't explain it
3:20. Not everyone is poor . Let's remember
3:22that unfortunately , a lot of people
3:23also infiltrate the demonstrations .
3:25Okay , but but , but , I mean ,
3:26if I , a poor person , am angry , I see it
3:28, I clearly follow it .
3:30Sure , sure . You mentioned in your
3:32sentence , Rodrigo , a little while ago ,
3:34about people , for example , about the
3:36number of people who are not suddenly
3:38in poverty , they don't become poor , but
3:40they are in permanent economic hardship
3:42.
3:42Well , the survey asks that and it's
3:44very interesting because it asks and
3:46generates two answers . One is visible
3:49material poverty . No , I don't have
3:52adequate housing , I can't make ends
3:54meet , I don't have ... It's okay , right ?
3:57And it's a poverty that you can
3:59identify because you see it . But we
4:01also talk about what we call invisible
4:04poverty , which has to do with if
4:07something happens to me , who will
4:10protect me ? There's no safety net ,
4:13there's no social security in health ,
4:14in education , in whatever . Security
4:17issues , right ? And so that whole
4:21feeling , right ? It doesn't just affect
4:25poverty , which is these 4 million
4:27people , but at least the lower middle
4:30class , right ? So this feeling of
4:33helplessness , of rage can be even
4:37greater . For example , people feel that
4:43they are treated unequally , in terms of
4:47access to justice , you know ? So , these
4:50are forms of poverty that are less
4:52material , that don't mean you can't
4:54make ends meet , which is still very
4:56relevant , but this also appears as what
4:58is called invisible poverty . We are
5:00talking with Rodrigo Jordán , president
5:02of the Foundation for Overcoming
5:04Poverty , about a very interesting
5:05survey conducted in conjunction with
5:07CADEM that talks about poverty in our
5:08country and how we deal with it . I was
5:10looking at more results , Rodrigo . It
5:12says here that citizens associate
5:13poverty mainly with experiences of
5:15material and economic precariousness ,
5:16which was what you were explaining . 64 %
5:18associate it with not having enough to
5:20cover basic needs such as food , basic
5:22services , and connectivity . That's just
5:24to give you a figure . So , I find it
5:25interesting that the perception of
5:28poverty , which obviously goes beyond
5:30income , right ? Which is related today ,
5:32I imagine , to the issue of unemployment
5:34, also to these macro figures , gives me
5:36the feeling that it has many
5:38perspectives . Is there a single
5:39determining factor ? What does it mean
5:41to be poor in Chile today ? That's what
5:44we work on , and I had the honor of
5:46chairing a committee . There is no
5:48single variable that defines you as
5:50poor . In the past , it was like that ,
5:51right ? In the past , it was defined
5:53solely by income . If you had a certain
5:55income that was enough to meet your
5:57basic needs . But following the example
5:59of other countries and international
6:02studies , multidimensional poverty was
6:04established in Chile 12 or 13 years ago
6:06. What does this mean ? That you are
6:09poor in different dimensions : health ,
6:12housing , work , etc. , right ? So you can
6:17be non-poor in terms of income , because
6:20you may have the income , but your
6:21children do not have access to
6:23education , you do not have adequate
6:25housing . I think , I don't know , the
6:28artisanal fishermen south of Tocopilla
6:30may have the income , but they do not
6:32have access to these other things . So ,
6:35we talk about this multidimensional
6:37poverty . Why ? Because before , to
6:40address poverty , vouchers were made ,
6:42right ? And income was added . But today
6:45you can challenge the different
6:47ministries , if it is health , education ,
6:49or housing , you can challenge those
6:51ministries to ensure that there are no
6:53public policies to address this gap ,
6:55right ? The gap , which is no longer just
6:58the income gap , but the employment gap ,
7:00the health gap , the work gap , etc.
7:03Because , well , we also understand that
7:05there are many non-governmental
7:07organizations , NGOs , and foundations ,
7:09that work precisely on many of these
7:11dimensions , right ?, that have to do with
7:13poverty . And that work is greatly
7:14appreciated . And there are
7:15public-private alliances that Cristian
7:17and I always say : " Welcome . " Sometimes
7:19one demonizes them , but no ; it is
7:21welcome that these alliances arise and
7:22everything . And , on the other hand ,
7:24there is the role of the State , right ?
7:26Well , in the different governments of
7:27recent years , well you have been
7:29working on this for a long time ,
7:30Rodrigo , things are being done well ,
7:32resources are being spent well . The
7:33other day we spoke with the chaplain of
7:35the Hogar de Cristo and he mentioned to
7:36us , for example , the issue of the
7:37elderly . They said , " Sure , these days
7:39we're seeing all the news and headlines
7:40about old people , but where are these
7:42people going , for example ? "
7:44Well , there's a huge debate about
7:47public policies . I mean , there are
7:49several things that one wants to say .
7:51Uh , this study was done by a series of
7:53organizations called the Alliance for
7:55Communication and Poverty , right ? So ,
7:57it's not just the Poverty Relief
7:58Foundation , there's América Solidaria ,
8:01there's Trespor , there's Colunga ,
8:02there's , well , there are several
8:04organizations . Uh , our case , for
8:07example , in the country service , these
8:10are young professionals who go to live
8:13for a year or two in really
8:15marginalized regions or municipalities .
8:19I mean , I'm talking about San Fabián
8:21de Ablico , San Gregorio , Cotpa , where
8:23many people don't even know where they
8:26are . Uh , they're there because the
8:28State doesn't reach them , right ? And I
8:31say the State , right ? The government
8:33doesn't reach out , it doesn't reach out
8:34with its public policies , and neither
8:36does private companies . So , these
8:38foundations fulfill roles that neither
8:41private companies nor the State reach
8:44out to . In fact , there is a study , and
8:47you could invite me , by Ignacio Raza , a
8:49professor at the Catholic University ,
8:52who just published the impact that
8:54foundations and civil society have on
8:56problems and who they reach . And all
8:59these foundations reach more than 6
9:01million people with services that , in
9:03partnership with the State , in
9:05partnership with private companies , I'm
9:08not ruling it out , if they were alone
9:10they wouldn't reach out . So the work
9:13that this third sector does is very
9:15relevant , it's extremely relevant .
9:19Within the study of the survey , right ?
9:21And the question in general . Let me
9:23tell you . What is your perspective , or
9:27how might we interpret the elements
9:30that help us move toward overcoming
9:32poverty , achieving greater employment ,
9:35education , and everything else , let's
9:38say , such as security ? There are
9:40elements that have a very powerful
9:42percentage in the answers that I would
9:44like us to share ,
9:45right ? Without a doubt ,
9:47the cost of living ,
9:48right ? There are no salaries , salaries
9:51in Chile are low , right ? Let's see ,
9:54it's super interesting because they ask
9:56people , right ? Who is responsible for
9:58solving all this ?
9:59Sure , sure . That's
10:00the answer . So , the State , without a
10:02doubt , the State in all its
10:04manifestations as a State , not only the
10:06central State of the Palacio de la
10:08Moneda ,
10:09but all the ministries , the regional
10:10ministries , the governorships today are
10:12becoming very important because the
10:14governorships are elected , they have
10:16their own budget , they have work in the
10:18regions , the municipalities . In other
10:20words , where does a person living in
10:22poverty turn to for their situation ?
10:24It's to the municipality , no , not the
10:26ministry , they turn to the municipality
10:28. So , the State in all its
10:30manifestations ,
10:31private enterprise also says so , I
10:34think the State is at 80 % , private
10:36enterprise is at 50 % , but how ? By
10:39paying better salaries , uh , not paying
10:41in 30 , 60 , 90 days , but paying ; I mean ,
10:44there are roles for ... But one thing
10:46that surprised me , surprised me in a
10:49good way : those responsible for this
10:52are also the parliamentarians . Of
10:54course .
10:54And this is super impressive
10:56because people realize the mistrust
10:58that exists ,
10:59right ? But they realize that there are
11:01laws that will allow this . Look , when
11:04you have economic growth , and everyone
11:06agrees on economic growth , not all
11:09economic growth overcomes poverty , that
11:11is very clear , right ? There are actions
11:15by the State that have to redefine ,
11:17readjust , reestablish , redirect those
11:20resources to solve poverty . Growth
11:23alone , and there is a lot of
11:24international evidence , does not
11:26overcome poverty . So , there is work to
11:29do with economic growth , but also
11:30redirection , and that's where the whole
11:32issue of taxes comes in , etc. , or
11:34financing , as I was saying , of these
11:35foundations , where the state , due to
11:37its structure , doesn't reach . Yes . So ,
11:40the way these people look when they say
11:43, " There is no low wages , today there
11:45is unemployment , unemployment , "
11:48Minister Quiruos said , " I hope that the
11:51only social policy is full employment . "
11:53" Okay , hopefully we will have better
11:55employment , but that is not enough . One
11:57needs to redirect , right ?, contributions
12:00to definitely health , education ,
12:01housing , etc. Now there is a scourge
12:03that is inevitable and that is also
12:05recorded in this survey , which has to
12:08do with the presence of organized crime
12:10in drug trafficking in vulnerable
12:12sectors , where children are exploited ,
12:14for example ; where families are
12:16intervened , where many times they have
12:18to lock themselves away and not go out
12:20because , effectively , they are , uh ,
12:22tremendously suffocated by everything
12:24that is happening . Uh , they feel it as
12:26a present indicator also because it
12:28limits life , right ?
12:29Without a doubt . Without a doubt . Let's
12:31see , the issue of security , uh ,
12:34especially affects the less affluent
12:38marginal neighborhoods with less , right
12:42? And why ? Because since the State does
12:46not arrive , since the private company
12:48does not arrive , right ? Who arrives
12:50first ?
12:51Of course ,
12:51the drug traffickers , right ? And be
12:53careful with this because one of the
12:55straits that we were talking about at
12:58the beginning has to do with With this
13:00thing that they told me when I was a
13:02kid that if I studied and got out of
13:04work I would get out of poverty , that I
13:06would be successful there . Nowadays ,
13:10young people who live in this situation
13:12don't believe that story . I'm not
13:14saying it's true , but they don't
13:16believe it . It's
13:17much harder than
13:18much harder to get in . So , go ahead ,
13:20I'm going to work my ass off studying .
13:22No matter how much I study , I'll have a
13:24lousy salary since the pay is low , so
13:27I'm getting into drug trafficking . I
13:30get into drug trafficking and drug
13:31trafficking is there .
13:33Drug trafficking has a story too and
13:34that's super dangerous . There's
13:36not just an economic story , there's
13:38almost a story of status ,
13:40but also of belonging . You belong to
13:43something . Yes . So , I remember , for
13:45example , I'm no longer in the community
13:47of solidarity actions , which is another
13:49of the organizations that is in the
13:51communication and poverty alliance .
13:52I was president of the community when
13:54the fires in Viña and Valparaíso came
13:55, right ? Do you remember ?
13:57Yes , yes .
13:57Uh , the first ones to arrive were the
13:59drug traffickers . The first ones to
14:00arrive , long before the State , long
14:02before the foundations , long before the
14:03private companies . I'll solve your
14:05problem , ma'am . So , we have a very ,
14:08very serious issue , very , very serious
14:10and people perceive it , they realize it
14:12, but it has this double meaning . I
14:16don't want to have links with the drug
14:17traffickers , of
14:18course .
14:19But my son , gosh , let him progress ,
14:21maybe he thinks that with the drug
14:24traffickers he's going to get ahead .
14:27He's going to get ahead ,
14:27yes . And it's not that he's a child who
14:29wasn't well raised , what's not the
14:30criticism that you always have within
14:32the family ,
14:32right ? Because that child , I insist ,
14:34says : " Damn , I'm going to work my ass
14:36off studying , I'm going to work my ass
14:37off and I'm not necessarily going to be
14:39successful , I'm going to get out of
14:40poverty ; no , I don't believe that story
14:42anymore . To have the same opportunities
14:44when applying for a job , I may not even
14:47have all the conditions , but
14:48meritocracy is a bit overlooked , right ?
14:51"
14:51Meritocracy has lost value in Chile ,
14:53without a doubt . That's when when one
14:56effectively talks about the need for
14:58state policies , public policies , that
15:00we as a society have to change , that
15:02there is a cultural issue , we are doing
15:04well , we are on the right track .
15:06Rodrigo ,
15:08I think that the responsibility for
15:11overcoming poverty is everyone's
15:13responsibility . Ah , as the survey says ,
15:16uh , it is not the State's in all its
15:18versions , it is the parliamentarians ' ,
15:20which I find very relevant , it is the
15:22private sector's , etc. , it is
15:24everyone's , it is us , each one of us .
15:27So , if we do not understand that having
15:30four or five million people living in
15:33poverty is something that needs to be
15:37resolved urgently ? Because let me
15:40digress , those people then do not allow
15:42, and the survey says so , they do not
15:44allow for a healthy , fair society , etc.
15:47The people say so . Well ,
15:50poverty is an obstacle to the social
15:52and economic development of the country
15:54. The people say so , right ? So ,
15:56also because it is inherited , sorry , it
15:57is inherits poverty , rage is inherited ,
15:59everything is inherited . So , if we do
16:00not understand that overcoming the
16:03poverty of these four or five million
16:05people is a role for everyone , we are
16:08putting the deepest stability of our
16:10society at risk and therefore it is
16:13everyone's responsibility to do so . I
16:15am concerned , so now I will reiterate ,
16:17Sandra , I am concerned that it is not
16:19part of the discussion , right ? Why ?
16:22Because historically we have had an
16:24impressive decrease in poverty , I mean ,
16:27one of the examples on the planet ,
16:29right ? At the beginning of the last
16:32century , in 1998 , 2000 and the first
16:34years of this century , it was
16:36impressive . We went from 38 to 40 %
16:39poverty to figures of 15 , 16. So the
16:42discussion lost its presence , this
16:45thing is already being solved and it
16:48will solve itself . But what happened ?
16:50Starting around 2010 , 2012 , with the
16:53pandemic , we remained stagnant and we
16:55continue in that poverty in two of
16:58these 4,000 people . I believe , and this
17:01is what we are seeing throughout this
17:03organization , that we need to talk
17:04about poverty again . The problem is
17:07that poverty is complex , as we said
17:09before , it has dimensions of education ,
17:11health , etc. So , it is not just
17:14multicausal , multivariate . Exactly .
17:16Listen , a very short pause because an
17:18earthquake was recorded . We did not
17:20feel it here in the study , but
17:21according to what they told us , we felt
17:24nothing .
17:24No , that was not the case either .
17:25According to Senapred , uh , it reports
17:26that it is in the Valparaíso region .
17:28Yes . So , monitoring began and
17:30seismology reports that an earthquake
17:32was preliminarily recorded at 12:15 .
17:35Magnitude 5.5 , it says , at 45.64 km
17:40northwest of Quintero . That would have
17:44been located there . The depth is 30 km .
17:46That seems to me to be what may be
17:48making them felt stronger or more
17:49noticeable , because in the north there
17:51were several yesterday as well that
17:53were shallow , they were not as deep . So
17:55that is why it is here that it is . Here
17:56in Santiago , I said that it was also
17:58felt here . So we are going to be on the
18:01lookout for Pred to monitor to see if
18:02there is any type of extra risk or if
18:04there are any consequences , above all ,
18:05which we hope there are not . That is
18:07the preliminary information . We are
18:09still here in the studio with Rodrigo
18:11Jordán , president of the Super
18:12Foundation in Vicuña from Friday to
18:14Saturday night , and to see if over
18:16there ... Yes , by Punte Choro . It was
18:18that way . And , furthermore , looking a
18:20little bit at the overall picture ,
18:22let's say , of the study , the numbers ,
18:24the figure , the response ... uh , I wanted
18:26to highlight a point ( I don't know if
18:28you share it here at the table ) which
18:30is that in the responses of the
18:32respondents there is quite a bit of
18:34depth , let's say , I mean , there is a
18:36doubt .
18:36Without a doubt . Do you know why I tell
18:37you this ? Because many times the
18:39discussion , sometimes political , also
18:41in the media , I understand that people
18:44think that it simplifies concepts ,
18:46right ? I mean , like this versus that ,
18:48polarizes this versus that and the
18:50solution is this . It seems that in
18:53people's responses , let's say , there is
18:55much more depth to their perspective .
18:57Without a doubt . I believe that much
18:59discussion is conducted on the surface
19:02of black and white , yes or no . But all
19:06of these problems , and especially the
19:08issue of poverty , are multifactorial ;
19:10they have different expressions , so it
19:12is a more complex issue . However , all
19:14of the problems we face as a country
19:15are complex . The issue of development ,
19:18the conservation of our natural
19:20resources , the issue of security , is
19:22not just a matter of digging a ditch ;
19:25it has a series of components . All of
19:28the problems are much more complex , and
19:30I have the impression from this survey ,
19:32but from others and from my work with
19:34people , that people are much more
19:36intellectually capable , knowledgeable
19:39about information , etc. What is
19:41concerning may be related to this —
19:43let's talk about poverty again —
19:46something Ignacio said the other day , I
19:49heard it , the disconnect , right ? And
19:51this is , I'm going to repeat it because
19:54many people say it , the disconnect
19:56between elites , right ? Political and
19:58business elites , what really matters is
20:00that there is a lack of streets , right ?
20:02It is very impressive . For example , in
20:04Vicuña , when I was in Vicuña , I was
20:06with the mayor , a right-wing mayor . For
20:08mayors , especially in places like
20:11Vicuña , like Paiuano , being right-wing
20:15or left-wing is not so relevant . Much
20:17more relevant is the relationship you
20:19have with the actions in your own
20:20community , in your own territory .
20:22If you are from there , if people know
20:25you , it's familiar . So , at this fair in
20:27Vicuña , which is a cultural event
20:30featuring books and various authors , it
20:33is a matter that is quite extraordinary
20:36. I was telling the mayor , I find it
20:38impressive . Once a month in Vicuña
20:41they have some kind of film activity ,
20:45reading , etc. It is really impressive .
20:49So that is the action that makes you
20:51say , " Wow , it has nothing to do with
20:53poverty . " It has to do with poverty
20:55because you bring culture to people who
20:57perhaps have much more difficult access
21:00to it than they do . So , there is
21:02another dimension there . Yes . Where it
21:04is very interesting ,
21:05Rodrigo Jordán , but when there is no
21:08real appreciation by these power elites
21:11, authorities in different areas ,
21:14different governments , different colors
21:17, that in effect sports , culture , art
21:20are values , are even profitable , it is
21:23very difficult . Of course , because the
21:26profitability of projects is measured
21:28in economic benefit and not necessarily
21:31social , which is much more difficult to
21:33measure , right ?
21:34But that is one of the dimensions .
21:36We have country service programs at the
21:39foundation , programs that have to do
21:41with culture , for example , camelids in
21:43the north , right ? There is a whole job ,
21:46isn't that right ?, with llamas , etc. ,
21:49where an entire economic benefit has
21:51been structured from a cultural
21:54connection that people have with the
21:56territory and with its history . So , if
21:59one allows That happens , overcoming
22:03poverty is not only verified in terms
22:05of income , but in all these other
22:07dimensions .
22:08Indeed , as a society it is also
22:10important that we talk about poverty ,
22:12because as we said at the beginning : it
22:14is one thing to be outraged , another
22:15thing to be angry , uh , to feel that
22:17perhaps there are many dimensions . But
22:19there are also things that we can do ,
22:21there are things that we can demand
22:22from the authorities , there are things
22:24that we can do as part of the solution ,
22:25right ? Well , without a doubt . Let me
22:29tell you another anecdote about that .
22:31When the pandemic hit , since I work in
22:33this field , many people , many
22:35businessmen approached me to say , " What
22:37are we going to do now ? " Because there
22:39is a willingness . Yes , the spirit of
22:41solidarity exists in Chile , but they
22:44did not approach me . So they said to me
22:46, " What are we going to do ? " I said , "
22:47Don't do anything . Go to the
22:49municipality of El Bosque and sit there
22:52one morning and see what happens there .
22:56Listen to what happens there , because
23:00there is a certain danger among those
23:04of us who live in the elite of having ,
23:08I call it , an unconscious arrogance ,
23:11right ? Since I studied , since I had the
23:15resources , since I had the
23:16opportunities , I know and you don't
23:18know , you didn't have the opportunity .
23:20So , I'm going to teach you . I'm
23:22exaggerating the point , but because
23:24this is completely unconscious . But it
23:26is unconscious . It is unconscious . It's
23:28not that I don't ,
23:29no . The country services of our
23:33foundation go through a training
23:35process . In fact , we are doing it now .
23:40I'm going to go back to the fishermen
23:41of Tocopilla . The fishermen of
23:43Tocopilla have incredible knowledge ,
23:45right ? That allows them to survive ,
23:47maintain themselves , etc. So , when you
23:50connect with the territory , you don't
23:53connect only from the point of view of
23:55mercy or solidarity , but you understand
23:58what values there are in that territory
24:00. And therefore , it is not that those
24:03of us who come from abroad , the
24:05professionals in the country service
24:07and those who work there , are the same ,
24:09but rather that we are symmetrical , we
24:10are different , we have different
24:12histories , different cultures . I could
24:14tell you something about mountaineering
24:17, but it is completely different , but
24:19we are symmetrical , our knowledge is
24:21equally valuable and by working
24:23together , and that is why this
24:25partnership that you mentioned , Sandra ,
24:27of the private sector , the state , and
24:29foundations , generates very powerful
24:32knowledge at that work table , right ?
24:34That none of them would have on their
24:36own . So , in that collaboration with
24:38even people who are suffering from
24:41poverty , you can build a much more
24:43solid future , much more supportive ,
24:47fairer , more ... Look , excuse me for
24:50getting into this , but this is exactly
24:53what happens to me on expeditions .
24:57Expedition members who come from
24:59completely different cultures ,
25:01completely different educations ,
25:03different economic situations ,
25:05different family traditions , etc. , but
25:07they put aside all that history for
25:10this common goal of reaching a summit .
25:12Yes . And therefore , more than just good
25:15climbers , they are also good people who
25:18are willing to work together . The same
25:20thing happens at the foundation . The
25:22board is made up of people who have
25:24different visions , different political ,
25:27social , and economic perspectives , but
25:30they leave that dogma behind , they
25:32leave it behind and put themselves at
25:34the service of overcoming poverty .
25:37How complex this issue is . Indeed , when
25:39suddenly , in addition , this same study
25:41is supported , unless we are close to it
25:43or have experienced it ourselves , we do
25:45not pay much attention to it , right ?
25:47But I agree , but the number of people
25:49who say they have been close to poverty
25:51is impressive . 60 and something , 67 % say
25:54, something like that I think , 67 % say ,
25:58maybe I have not experienced it , but I
25:59have lived it up close , right ? And I
26:01have had contact with poverty . I insist
26:03, this issue , to my taste , perhaps I am
26:06biased , is the greatest urgency that
26:08Chile has . I have no doubt about that .
26:12Okay , let's look at the priorities , the
26:14work that is actually being done . This
26:16issue of megaforms that is being
26:17proposed , Rodrigo , do you see that it
26:19can effectively benefit the people who
26:21have the most or the least ? I mean , it
26:23depends , because if there are
26:24corrections , like for example : watch
26:26out for the People's Party , because the
26:29People's Party , at least in its title ,
26:31has something of this . I mean , they
26:33want to serve the people , the
26:35individuals , uh ... they are looking at
26:38things like , uh , SMEs , etc. , right ?
26:41Small businesses , etc. All of that ...
26:43look at what the government did when it
26:45raised fuel prices , there is this whole
26:47debate among economists about whether
26:49or not the MEPCO was used , one of the
26:51things they did was subsidize kerosene .
26:55So , that is a concrete action to
26:57overcome poverty . It is a small one , I
26:59am not saying that it will overcome it ,
27:01but it is a concrete action . I take
27:03into consideration in my public policy
27:05those who are having a really hard time
27:08, right ? And winter is coming . So we
27:10are going to subsidize paraffin wax ,
27:12right ? Which is the fuel that is used
27:14at home . If these types of actions
27:17are present in this mega-format , well ,
27:20they are welcome .
27:21Well , we all have to generate that
27:23empathy , that knowledge , that desire to
27:25understand and comprehend , right ? To
27:27effectively seek solutions . In fact ,
27:28there is a meeting this week , right ? We
27:29can tell you about it . Very big . Yes ,
27:31very big . Three Porí , together with
27:34others , is generating a great meeting
27:36on poverty . Three Porí is an
27:38organization that has generated these
27:40tremendous meetings on unlikely pairs
27:42and this week it is going to generate ,
27:45together with all these other
27:46organizations , uh , again the community ,
27:49the Colunga Foundation , etc. , a meeting
27:51on ... Let's talk about poverty again .
27:54Well , then , let's also keep an eye on
27:56it and see what can emerge from that
27:58meeting . Rodrigo Jornán , president of
28:00the Foundation for Overcoming Poverty .
28:01Thank you very much for being with us .
28:02It's a pleasure . Thank you very much .
28:04Ça .