Full transcript
0:00[Music]
0:03have we got questions today steve what
0:05how are we what are you thinking what's
0:07in your mind well
0:08what's on my mind is what you've been
0:10talking about uh sir
0:11which is uh being a bit
0:15vulnerable letting your little soft
0:17underbelly show
0:18in a relationship okay can you
0:22i don't want to see your soft little
0:23underbelly on this podcast today
0:26right well that speak for yourself well
0:28look
0:30i was wondering about this you you took
0:33an answer
0:34on a recent video from jessica talking
0:36about her difficulty
0:38and using passive aggressive behavior
0:42uh as a kind of weapon or as a defense
0:45mechanism
0:46um when people talk about they struggle
0:49to be vulnerable i was trying to think
0:51what that
0:52means because we don't really mean when
0:56you
0:56are being vulnerable you don't mean
0:58early on you want to reveal
1:00every pertinent fear and
1:03phobia and worry and inner insecurity
1:07you
1:07have to someone what is it you want to
1:10reveal
1:11at the beginning or or when you're
1:13dating someone is it just that you think
1:15you are putting on a pose
1:17and you want to drop the pose with
1:19someone
1:20and i guess for some people they find it
1:22hard to ever drop the pose
1:24and that's why they're always being the
1:26witty one
1:27the cutting sarcastic one that sort of
1:30thing
1:31but do you think it's like people just
1:33need one don't want to lose control
1:36yeah yes yes they don't want to lose
1:40control and by the way that can go in
1:41two directions it can be by never
1:43revealing anything about yourself
1:45or you get that person who is
1:47self-deprecating
1:49in a really brash way where they always
1:52voice their insecurities and they always
1:54talk about
1:55every part of themselves and whatever
1:57and it's like a kind of
1:58in a way it's its own defense mechanism
2:00isn't it i'm gonna
2:02i'm gonna tell you everything about me
2:03and if you don't like
2:05me for me then screw you you know this
2:08is me
2:09and i think that is also a sort of
2:13god it's a it's a really aggressive form
2:15of vulnerability
2:17where you're preempting any way that you
2:20could be rejected by them by
2:23either rejecting yourself first or
2:24wearing it really brashly like
2:27you well if you can't handle me then
2:28that's on you like i'm gonna just be me
2:30and i'm gonna tell you everything about
2:32me and
2:33that's up to you if you can handle it
2:34handle it or not and it's like well
2:37you don't need to say everything all the
2:40time
2:40like the you know they're like i speak
2:42my mind i speak my mind
2:44and you know how annoying the person is
2:46who says i speak my mind
2:48right well not every thought you have is
2:50something that needs to be said
2:52or is useful to the rest of us yeah that
2:54person's never
2:55the the most charming one in the room
2:58or the most interesting one to talk to
3:01part of great conversation is knowing is
3:04is being
3:05discerning about what to say and what
3:08not to say
3:09it you know you may say vulnerability
3:12may say
3:13to maybe saying to someone i was a
3:15little nervous
3:16coming on a date you know i haven't been
3:18on a a date in uh
3:20in a minute but it may not be saying
3:24i i for the last three hours
3:27i kept changing dresses because i felt
3:30like i looked overweight in every single
3:32one of them
3:33like that's not right
3:36yeah that's a good example yeah what is
3:39that then that
3:40that is vulnerability that second one
3:42but it's
3:43it's a kind of um
3:46oh is it an overexposure it's a bit of
3:49an
3:50it's a bit of an over share in a way
3:53you know there are things that are
3:55appropriate for a first date isn't
3:57therapy
3:58then they're not being paid yeah yeah
4:01it's supposed to be fun it's supposed to
4:02you're supposed to have a good time
4:04and you have to ask yourself it's like
4:06those guys remember the guys on the
4:07montreal episode of anthony bourdain
4:09parts unknown
4:10where the guy who he has dinner with in
4:12montreal
4:13he says he literally sees being
4:16he sees hosting as an art but he also
4:19sees being a guest at someone else's
4:21dinner party as an art
4:23and he will come with stories prepared
4:26whether he's the guest or the host at a
4:28dinner party because he believes in the
4:30art of being a great guest of being a
4:32great
4:33host and bourdain kind of laughs because
4:35he's like wait you prepare stories and
4:37he's like
4:37yes absolutely i do because
4:41it's my job to go and be a great person
4:43to spend time with
4:45and you know you may or may not go that
4:47far on a date but
4:48there's something to that there's
4:50something to understanding that part of
4:52our responsibility on a date i'm not
4:53saying it's not both people's
4:55responsibility but
4:56being yourself doesn't mean not
4:59working to be an entertaining person to
5:01spend company to spend time in in your
5:03company
5:04you can be yourself and try
5:07and and being entertaining is not
5:10wearing every one of your emotional
5:12wounds
5:13on your sleeve or that's not funny
5:16it's not like it's not entertaining
5:20going on the date and revealing all
5:21these ways you think you're a total
5:23mess and what you'd say to your
5:25therapist it's like
5:26you've picked the exact wrong context
5:28it's not that oh they can't handle me
5:31it's that they're thinking why why in
5:34this moment when we're supposed to be
5:35having fun
5:36and getting to know each other am i
5:38getting revealed
5:40traumas or revealed you know her deepest
5:42insecurities it's like it's
5:44inappropriate right so it is yeah
5:46there is a timing issue that's why i
5:48think some people do think
5:49so what i can't i can't really be myself
5:51and it's like no it's
5:53there's always a timing and a strategic
5:56time
5:56to be your weaker self yeah
6:00exactly and to and look we reveal our
6:03wounds in all sorts of ways sometimes
6:05it's not by saying
6:06i have this deep dark insecurity that
6:08i'm not enough
6:09sometimes it's like you know
6:12the great one is like where someone's
6:14like telling a story and and so i was
6:16like oh so you went to antigua who did
6:18you go with
6:19and they're like oh i went with my
6:20ex-husband but the less said about him
6:22the better
6:23and you're like okay oh they get that
6:26but that's a story for another time yeah
6:29okay like
6:32what what's someone supposed to do with
6:35that like you know the
6:36the snarky comment made about someone or
6:38the gossipy comment made about someone
6:40or
6:40you know i remember i remember years ago
6:42being on a date with someone who
6:44who like just spoke with such venom
6:46still about their ex and i just remember
6:48thinking
6:49why are you telling me this this isn't
6:51this is not date conversation
6:53like you may have a problem with your ex
6:55but don't you know
6:56like this isn't the time to bring venom
6:59towards someone else this is the wrong
7:01audience
7:02like know your audience your job on a
7:04date is to bring the best of you
7:06it's not like take me as i am well
7:10is that fair like if you took you if
7:12you're having a shitty day
7:14and that means take me as i am means
7:17take me
7:18as a shitty person today because i'm
7:20having a bad time
7:21don't that's not fair to the other
7:23person don't go on the date yeah
7:25don't go on the date that's more fair to
7:27the other person because they've given
7:29up their time and energy
7:30to be with you tonight like that's not
7:33respecting someone else's time and
7:35energy
7:36is to is to bring that to them it's not
7:38i'm just being myself
7:40you know and i've said this to you
7:41before steve i don't just make a video
7:43and go well you know if i'm
7:45if i'm feeling really negative today the
7:47audience is going to get that me because
7:48that's just
7:49i want to be me no they expect better
7:52from me today
7:54they if i'm going to get on and make a
7:55video then i have a responsibility
7:58to to bring an energy that that is
8:01good for people not an energy that
8:03brings everybody else down
8:06yeah there's like authenticity but
8:09there's also
8:10if it's in a relationship it's like
8:11being also a good partner or a good
8:13company to the other person or being
8:16you know it has to be that give and take
8:19and yeah in like if someone came to a
8:21party
8:22someone comes to a party and starts like
8:24unloading
8:25all this stuff you think we're at a
8:26party like this isn't the time yeah
8:29you know this is a party this isn't the
8:30time to i remember you know i remember
8:32being uh
8:33jameson took me to uh i think it was for
8:36my birthday one year you took me to a
8:37sam harris talk
8:39in la and we were in the audience to in
8:42a sam harris event
8:44and i remember at the end of the event
8:45this guy saw me
8:47and he came over and he was like matthew
8:50hussey and
8:50and and i said yeah and he said oh good
8:53to see you he said
8:54it's a quick question like i'm curious
8:57like what
8:58qualifies you to do what you do
9:02do you remember this and i just thought
9:06what
9:10old charmer
9:13and by the way he wasn't saying it in
9:15like a vicious way or anything he was
9:17like asking it as a
9:18like a gen almost like a genuine
9:20question did he go sorry sorry matthew
9:22hussey just one one thing
9:24where do you get off who who do you
9:27think you
9:28are this one i just want to ask
9:32but like how is that the right room for
9:35that question
9:36this isn't 60 minutes like
9:39i'm not piers morgan well i'm at an
9:42event me and jamison are having some
9:44friend time on a night out
9:45like why would you ask how is this your
9:48question your first question
9:50that you asked me is this not hello mate
9:52i've seen your videos
9:53just you know that i mean honestly the
9:56things people say where they don't read
9:58the room like this is
10:00this is what's called for in this moment
10:02like it's
10:04fascinating to me and it's
10:07how little sometimes people are
10:09preoccupied with being charming
10:13how little they are preoccupied with
10:15coming across well or just
10:17coming across as a nice person a kind
10:20person
10:21you know how many people don't think
10:22it's their job on a first date to show
10:24up and give someone really warm energy
10:26in the first five minutes
10:27how many people think it's someone
10:28else's job to come along and impress
10:30them
10:30well i'm going to see if i like you
10:32first what
10:34someone came out to see you you don't
10:36have to go on another date with them but
10:37you're there
10:39you're there so give them your best
10:41energy
10:43and it's the same thing when someone
10:44goes on a date and they it's always like
10:46you're you're
10:47immediately assuming bad intentions
10:50instead of just going you know what i'm
10:52gonna assume the best intentions
10:54right now just for this moment i'm gonna
10:56you know hear what someone does for a
10:58living i'm gonna get curious about them
11:00i'm gonna
11:01see what they're all about i'm just
11:03gonna listen and be
11:05impressed with some things about them i
11:07don't have to act impressed with things
11:08i'm not but i'm just gonna like
11:10give them the benefit of the doubt as a
11:11human being because when we do that
11:14people warm to us they become their best
11:17around us and we may decide at the end
11:19of it i think i didn't like the vibe i
11:21got from that person
11:22i don't want to see them again we may
11:24decide that but for the time we're with
11:26them
11:26unless they do something unless they do
11:30something obviously disrespectful
11:32obviously egregious assume the best of
11:35that person
11:36as how assume the best intentions assume
11:39the best
11:40the best traits because you want to have
11:42a nice time and people tend to
11:44rise to the occasion around people that
11:46actually see them in a positive
11:48light yeah yeah and uh
11:52i think with the vulnerability thing
11:54it's always that thing of
11:55you know you talk a lot about unique
11:57pairings i think you can
11:58that can get popped in at some point or
12:01it will come naturally there might be a
12:03point where you'll say something a
12:05little more vulnerable or a little more
12:06honest
12:07and but if that's interspersed with you
12:09also being
12:11self-confident in other ways being
12:13self-assured being
12:14you know you know who you are in other
12:16ways and you don't think well i'm a
12:18complete mess you're like no
12:19i've got all these things these things
12:21that are great and these things i
12:22love about myself then it it's all in
12:25context and it doesn't feel
12:26like such a big thing and you can always
12:28decide right if they react badly when
12:31you show
12:31one tiny [ __ ] in your armor and they
12:34suddenly are like
12:36super like um uninterested or they judge
12:40you
12:40then you can be like okay that tells me
12:42something about this person you'll
12:44you'll find that out
12:46but you'll know you'll know that person
12:48who doesn't value vulnerability because
12:49they won't be vulnerable themselves
12:51right
12:53you'll literally you'll see a lack of
12:54humanity in that person you'll see
12:56someone who
12:58is you know everything they do on a date
13:00is perfect and they never can laugh at
13:02themselves
13:03they take themselves very seriously
13:05they're always talking about all of the
13:07impressive things about themselves but
13:08there's never any like
13:10that human warmth that
13:13you know uh that person who you can
13:15relate to it's the same thing isn't it
13:17when it whether it's a politician or a
13:19celebrity or whoever
13:20when we talk about oh you know he's sort
13:23of he's a sort of politician or the sort
13:25of celebrity or the sort of whatever
13:26that you'd want to grab a beer with
13:28what we're saying is that's someone who
13:30feels like a human being
13:32yeah that's someone who feels like i
13:34could actually
13:35you know relate to them relate there's
13:38some soul in there that actually has
13:40you know experienced some things and
13:43that's what vulnerability is
13:45and i'm i have to say this because i
13:47steve i just feel like this is a good
13:48a good moment to say it we have a
13:50comment here from
13:52kd and i'm not i'm not having to go kd
13:55w star but you said are you okay
13:59seem a little off steve you have no idea
14:02how many
14:03of those kinds of comments i get in
14:04general of
14:06people who will watch me in a video and
14:09they'll be like
14:10are you all right you seem really sad
14:12lately or you seem a bit off or you seem
14:14a bit
14:15i've seen them i've seen the comments
14:17you've seen them
14:18i'm i always think that's an interesting
14:20filter too
14:22because i am lit i am being me
14:26like when people say you seem off i
14:28always think you must not have watched
14:30enough of my videos
14:32because this is literally me this is who
14:34i am i'm not being
14:36i don't i'm not someone else with
14:37jameson after the camera goes off i am
14:40exactly me a you know a me that puts in
14:44a little bit of effort you know i don't
14:46always put in this much effort with
14:47jameson
14:48true but but this is me
14:52and it it's always interesting to me
14:54when someone says like you seem sad
14:56you seem a little off matt why are you
14:58so you know
14:59this lately i'm like you mean
15:02three-dimensional
15:04you mean i have different sides like
15:07that's
15:08i know who i'm going to connect with on
15:10a deep level because that's the person
15:12who's always like
15:13i love your authenticity i love your
15:16vulnerability i love that you just
15:18you are who you are like that's the
15:20person i go oh there's a human
15:21connection there
15:22no everyone's going to feel that with
15:24you when you're vulnerable you know some
15:26person you're going to be on a date with
15:27you'll be
15:28vulnerable and someone will be like oh
15:31well that's a
15:32you know that you'll say something about
15:34that you feel about life in general and
15:35they'll be like well that's kind of a
15:36depressing
15:37way of looking yeah
15:41yeah and you're like well yeah maybe we
15:42just have a different outlook on life
15:44like i'm not the mr happy happy happy
15:46everywhere i go person that's not who i
15:48am
15:49i i have a deep dark existential
15:52edge to me alongside it literally sits
15:55alongside
15:56the part of me that thinks life is the
15:58most magical and beautiful
15:59thing there could possibly be they sit
16:02right next to each other
16:04at my nihilism and my romance and part
16:07of vulnerability is accepting there is
16:08pain in life and i have experienced it
16:11that's it's part of the honesty of it
16:14but natasha this is funny natasha says
16:18but you're not answering are you okay
16:21that's a good point are you how have i
16:24not answered that
16:26i but listen but i i just i really i
16:29want to zone in on this because i think
16:31it's so important
16:32it's what are we expecting of people
16:35these days
16:36if the answer to the question am i okay
16:39is
16:39in many ways i'm the best i've ever been
16:44i'm wiser than i've ever been steve i
16:47feel more
16:48aware of myself and the world and my
16:50connection to myself than i've ever been
16:53i feel more driven and excited about our
16:56purpose than i've ever been
16:58but i also am in a constant kind of
17:03working with my emotions working with
17:07you know sadness here or an anxiety here
17:10or
17:11a worry here about the future that makes
17:13me realize i'm too far in the future and
17:14not in the present
17:16um worrying that i'm not doing enough
17:18worrying that
17:19you know am i doing the right thing
17:21worrying about
17:22a piece of content that just went out
17:23and thinking i could have been better
17:25worrying that my family are halfway
17:27across the world and i'm i love them to
17:29pieces and they are my world and i'm not
17:32with them every day and and and
17:34sometimes suffering from the guilt of
17:35that and do i should i even be in la
17:37right now should i be
17:38back home in london even though i'm
17:40happier in america should i be with my
17:42family because i'm actually happiest
17:44when i'm with my family god that prone
17:46it presents a conundrum doesn't it i'm
17:47building this life in america but
17:49ultimately i know that i
17:50want to be around the people i love the
17:52most in the world that's
17:54you know my and by the way that's ten
17:57percent of what i'm feeling
17:58so the answer to am i okay is a complex
18:01one i don't feel like we're allowing
18:03enough complexity in people these days i
18:05feel like we want these sort of
18:07self-help
18:08robots walking around that we can't even
18:11steve by the way i think you're we're
18:13about this meeting's about to end in one
18:15minute isn't it do you need to restart
18:16it
18:17i i think i do this hasn't happened for
18:19a while uh
18:21oh dear zoom screwed us um
18:25anyway while you're while you're coming
18:27back i'll finish this point you can you
18:29jump off steve and come back
18:30i'll keep talking for a minute okay but
18:33i feel like we have gotten into this
18:36place in life that really
18:37freaks me out where i'm like what what
18:40is it we're expecting
18:42now what sort of stepford wife
18:47automaton
18:48[Music]
18:50manufactured synthetic version of
18:53positivity are we looking for
18:56that doesn't allow for us to
18:59have this kind of complexity that means
19:02that
19:02if i make a more solemn point about
19:04something or if i get a little deeper
19:07about something or if i talk with a more
19:08melancholy
19:10side of me that it must mean that i'm
19:12not okay
19:13i suppose in a way i'm always okay and
19:16i'm always
19:16not okay that that both of those things
19:20is it don't both of those things exist
19:22in you
19:24i'm i we're gonna die that i'm not okay
19:26with that
19:28like that's something i'm not okay with
19:30my family's gonna die
19:31i'm not okay with this truth
19:35it doesn't bring me joy it doesn't bring
19:37me happiness
19:40i i am both okay and not okay
19:43at the same time i don't know
19:47why we think that life is supposed to be
19:50a different way
19:51than that i mean my god we see on
19:54instagram where all these people talk
19:56about how one
19:57how their peak performance and living at
19:59their highest level and
20:02you know i think that what must that do
20:04for people who
20:05just right now are focused on hanging on
20:08for dear life
20:09and they're just like i'm just you know
20:11what my life's about right now trying to
20:12get by
20:14i'm trying to get by peak performance
20:17what on earth is that right now
20:20how many people are just trying to get
20:22by i'm just trying
20:23i'm just trying to do my best and get by
20:25i'm struggling
20:27how many people are just trying to get
20:29by right now
20:31and yet we pinpoint it when someone
20:34doesn't seem
20:34optimally happy who the [ __ ] is
20:36optimally happy
20:39who like i don't know them i don't know
20:42them i see them
20:43on social media when i'm with people in
20:47person
20:48i don't see them most of the time i see
20:51people who sometimes are
20:52giddy in love that's different that's
20:55like a drug field high
20:56i see someone who just got off stage at
20:59an event and they're
21:00high on adrenaline that's a drug high
21:04this idea that you know someone shows a
21:07range of emotion
21:08and a complexity and we go it's like a
21:11mum
21:12who is like sees their kid as having a
21:14dark thought and says oh what's wrong
21:16dear do you want a sandwich
21:19and you're like mom i don't the sandwich
21:20isn't gonna fix the fact i'm gonna die
21:30have you seen the crown there's just a
21:32brilliant moment where margaret
21:33the queen's sister is who who has much
21:36more of a sort of
21:38complex no the queen is very complex but
21:41margaret has a sort of more vulnerable
21:43open complexity to her and the queen and
21:46margaret are sitting there and
21:47margaret's trying to explain to the
21:48queen that
21:49you know someone else they love isn't
21:52happy and the queen says well i think
21:54you know
21:55they could take a brisk walk that always
21:56helps me
21:58because the queen's got this view this
22:00sort of very
22:01shut down view of emotions that well a
22:04brisk walk normally helps
22:06and margaret's like well a brisk walk
22:08doesn't always do it for the rest of us
22:11you know and i i think that about life
22:13it's like you can't or we can't always
22:15shrug everything off by
22:16you know you just need to do your
22:18gratitude exercise this morning
22:20and you'll be all right well okay some
22:22problems are bigger than a 10 minute
22:23gratitude exercise you know so
22:28i think we have to allow for a little
22:30more complexity than
22:32than we'd allow for in so much of what
22:35we do
22:36jameson i've realized we didn't even go
22:37back on the meeting with steve has he
22:39sent us a new
22:40link um no well i will cut this in and
22:43out for the podcast
22:44so we'll have a good time jameson you've
22:47got my audio so you can cut that in
22:49with all the audio i just did you've
22:50still got okay
22:52great well we'll just add in we'll just
22:54we'll just add in we're gonna edit in
22:56some
22:56in posts some noises of you agreeing
22:59okay with whatever i say we'll take some
23:01snippets of you agreeing and we'll just
23:02cut those in
23:04that was an amazing point so i
23:07guess can we get a couple can we get a
23:08couple more bits like that great point
23:11um uh one one final thing we'll see if
23:13we have time to cut this in but
23:15do you think there is a male female
23:18distinction
23:18in men worry about vulnerability because
23:22they think it will
23:23turn off their partner and women sort of
23:26worry about being vulnerable because
23:28they think
23:29it will make him feel like she's high
23:31maintenance or
23:33difficult or you know that sort of thing
23:36or do you think there's two different
23:37kinds of fears i don't believe that i
23:40think that
23:41both sexes can believe that if they
23:44if they're vulnerable they're going to
23:45come across as high maintenance but both
23:47can
23:47also equally worry that if they show
23:50themselves to be
23:51fallible if they show their confidence
23:54to
23:54uh have holes in it then
23:58that's gonna make someone else think
24:01that they're less attractive or less
24:02together which
24:04as we found out steve on this live is
24:06not an unfounded idea
24:10that the moment right you do talk more
24:12honestly
24:13or show more of yourself there will
24:15always be people
24:17who don't hold space for that
24:20but what i would argue is that you must
24:24be vulnerable
24:25because it's only by being vulnerable
24:28that you're able to truly find who's
24:30right for you
24:32if you're not vulnerable you will never
24:34find that person because you'll never
24:36learn who can truly hold space for
24:38for who you are you'll always just be
24:41with someone who is with a
24:43representative you'll be with someone
24:46else who is dating a representative of
24:49you
24:50but not the real person they'll be
24:52dating the delegate
24:54and we have to be in a relationship
24:56where the person we're with
24:58is dating the real person not the
25:01representative
25:02you'll never know if they're attracted
25:04to the real person
25:05unless you get vulnerable and my god who
25:07wants to spend the rest of their life
25:09worried that the moment someone finds
25:11out who they really are
25:12uh they'll suddenly decide to move on to
25:16the next representative they meet and
25:19who wants to date a delegate
25:20not me baby so
25:23let's you've always and you've always
25:25said that steve i always stopped by that
25:28i've been consistent um well
25:31thanks everyone thanks matt um
25:34i uh what are you gonna call this
25:37podcast
25:38i'll do my title magic we'll figure out
25:40a name for it um
25:42old underbelly steve's underbelly um
25:45why don't we call it that why don't we
25:47call it steve's soft underbelly
25:49yeah maybe i'll have a thing um
25:53so uh all right well it's been good
25:57steve can i just say steve
25:59one of my favorite things about this
26:00podcast is that you and i
26:03aren't always good at especially because
26:06the time difference between la and
26:07london we're not always good at picking
26:08up the phone to each other
26:10not on a daily basis anyway and the
26:12podcast
26:14gives me time where you and i can just
26:15spend some time together and
26:17have some fun that's one of my favorite
26:18things about it
26:20thanks man that's sweet and vulnerable
26:22of you to say
26:24well i love you brother and i miss you i
26:27love you
26:29all right having that mushy stuff i'll
26:31see you later everyone
26:33cheers boy all right catch you later
26:46[Music]
26:54you