I Was WRONG About WoW Forever!

0:02YOUR BOYS WERE THE FIRST ONES to log in

0:04yesterday. What are you doing?

0:05[laughter]

0:08>> That's basically the excitement of uh

0:10not playing beta right now.

0:11>> No, no, I did play the beta with you and

0:14I have um some different opinions um

0:16from from my original ones.

0:18>> Everybody seems to have different

0:19opinions about WoW Forever and

0:21everybody's going out of their minds

0:23playing it. Dude, I don't remember

0:24Classic when it was released having this

0:26much hype when uh on Twitch, on YouTube,

0:30in the communities, Discords. Everybody

0:32seems to at least be talking about this.

0:34>> Yeah, I feel that even some of the

0:36retail folks are actually looking a

0:39little bit more favor favoristically. Is

0:42that a word? Favorable. unfavorable in

0:45in the direction of uh wall forever

0:47because uh I'm I'm going to get into

0:50this because I really feel that I I have

0:51something uh more brewing regarding this

0:55but it is indeed very very very hypy for

0:59most of the people we know and for the

1:01people we follow and it was like like

1:03listen man yesterday the the actual

1:07Twitch viewership for WoW surpassed the

1:10just chatting so just chatting is like

1:12the biggest, right? Like it it like

1:15involves all the the

1:18people everything. So that like just

1:20watching was at sitting at around 500k

1:23and World of Warcraft was sitting at

1:24around 600K and this is only the beta.

1:27You can just imagine when what what [ __ ]

1:29will go down on no November 4th. But

1:32anyways,

1:36let's talk about what happened. Uh what

1:39it is, what to expect, and probably the

1:42future, I would say, for a lot of the

1:45stuff

1:45>> for a lot of the stuff. Well, first of

1:46all, the the biggest question is cuz

1:48this is what I what we've seen in our

1:50community and online as well. What What

1:53are you supposed to expect from W

1:55forever? Because a lot of people are

1:56treating Wall Forever like W 2.0, which

1:58is not Wall 2.0.

1:59>> Yeah. And also I think a lot of people

2:01kind of confused it initially with the

2:03fact that it's some sort of like retail

2:05version set into a classic.

2:07>> And that's that's also not it. So first

2:10of all the the let's let's get the cat

2:12out of the bag. Wow forever is classic

2:14WoW. It's not retail Wow. It has the

2:17character models of retail. It has some

2:20rigging from retail for if I understand

2:21it correctly.

2:22>> It also brings what it does have for

2:24retail is the enhanced version. A lot of

2:26like quality of life features that you

2:28find in retail. You can have them

2:30optionally activated in wall forever. I

2:32went for that version cuz that's when I

2:34realized when I told you like this is

2:37where the quest is with Gar's head and

2:38you didn't see it on the map but I saw

2:40>> I went I went with classic. That's

2:41interesting because you can see our our

2:42gameplay footage from both of us. I

2:44actually have no idea what the

2:45enhancement the enhanced version does

2:46cuz I thought I had the enhanced when I

2:48looked at my character model being like

2:49the HD version and we're going to talk

2:51about that as well.

2:52>> That's yeah that's a different toggle in

2:54>> itself. So I I I went for the full

2:56classic experience. I wanted to see if I

2:57can classify my my forever as much as

3:00possible. What would that turn into? And

3:03I was not disappointed. Okay, listen.

3:04I'll I'll say from the classic

3:05experience and then we can talk about

3:06enhanced.

3:08>> I went with a classic and I cranked my

3:10my graphic settings to max. Holy [ __ ]

3:14We talked like we've we've had this for

3:15years. Definitive edition coming left

3:17and right. Witcher 3 is already coming

3:19with like a definite definitive edition

3:20on its own. This is World of Warcraft

3:23Classic Definitive Edition. How can

3:25something look so much better with just

3:27a little bit of lightning work, lighting

3:29work, and a little bit of um I don't

3:32even know. It's not texture upresing.

3:33Nothing. Nothing like that.

3:34>> Nothing is up. No, it's it still looks

3:36very much like classic. But I think like

3:38what it what it is is actually like the

3:40the the the rendering of the what what's

3:44it called? The the not the scale, the

3:47the distance, the view distance. Okay.

3:49It's obviously on par with today's

3:51computers. And also the lighting. So

3:53these two combined plus the fox

3:55everywhere.

3:56Yeah. The water. Yeah. So all these

3:58elements make it so that it it looks

4:01100% like you remember it back in the

4:04day cuz backed

4:05>> Yeah. Something in those lines. But it's

4:07really good. I mean, you can see like

4:08the the the care and the attention to

4:11detail to make sure it still feels like

4:13classic but looks and vibes really good.

4:15I think it it it does a great job just

4:17getting you immersed once again into

4:19this beautiful uh pure world of RPGness

4:23that was original. Wow.

4:24>> Goodness. It does. It does. And one one

4:26last thing that I wanted to say about

4:27the classic, even if you do go with

4:29classic, you have to keep in mind that

4:31the UI is definitely upgraded. Um I I'm

4:34going to try to like showcase you guys

4:35from my point of view like how the UI

4:37looked cuz I went through the menu a

4:39couple of times. First of all, you have

4:40edit. Everybody has edit mode. Everybody

4:42has the inbuilt damage meters. You have

4:44cooldown manager. I don't know if we

4:46have boss timers yet, but there's not

4:48much boss timers you have in classic

4:49because there's not many mechanics. Not

4:51much. Yeah.

4:51>> Uh and you have a lot of re a lot of

4:53time to react to things. So, that's

4:54perfectly fine cuz the game play is way

4:56slower. Marian is probably going to talk

4:57more about that. Um but you will have

4:59that because I know there are classic

5:01Andes out there. They're like, "Man, I

5:02want the classic experience." Listen,

5:08that's the thing. There there's classic

5:10wow, there's retail wow, and then

5:11there's forever. which kind of has to be

5:13a little bit of blend of the two because

5:14at the end of the day, whatever your

5:16opinions are and your expectations are,

5:18Blizzard will want to have a version of

5:20WoW for everybody. They're not going to

5:22make another version for the same type

5:24of people so that they can enjoy it

5:26again. That's that's just not

5:28business-wise. That's not a smart

5:29decision. So, that's basically what

5:30forever is. Plus with with its own

5:33different model of horizontal

5:35progression uh constant content updates

5:37over the years where it's not as they

5:39say that they don't want it to be as

5:41seasonal as the other uh other games cuz

5:44even classic and retail are also kind of

5:46seasonal.

5:46>> Yeah, I am a retail Andy. Okay. So, I

5:49was not impressed by by WoW Forever

5:52initially mean I like the trailer and

5:53all of that and the features and

5:55everything but I wasn't really that

5:56drawn into it. And this is why this is

5:59the main reason why I went for the

6:00enhanced version because okay, if I'm

6:02going to give this a try, might as well

6:04get my my retail juices going everywhere

6:06I can. So, you know, you can blame me if

6:08if you want to. I don't really care for

6:10that pure classic experience. I want all

6:12of the quality of lives and also the

6:15immersiveness and probably the slower

6:17paced gameplay. And speaking of that,

6:19um, one of my biggest problems with

6:21classic in general is that I I always

6:24love the more dynamic, fast-paced

6:27combat. Uh, and this this goes back like

6:30even back to the Burning Crusade when I

6:31started cuz like uh arenas were

6:33introduced back then and the the play

6:35style even though it was still slower,

6:37the play style itself in PvP arenas

6:40which was a lot more um agitated, a lot

6:43more dynamic. Okay. And that evolved

6:46through the years. So, I kind of got

6:47used to that very early on.

6:50Now, going into this with flame and

6:52rolling on my paladin and just sitting

6:54there in front of a mob auto attacking,

6:57you know, slapping my seal up every 30

6:59seconds and just sitting there and auto

7:01attacking. Okay, it didn't feel good at

7:04at at first, but you know, you know what

7:06kind of like made it work? Once you

7:08leveled up and you go to your class

7:10trainer and you start getting some

7:11abilities like I got my judgment uh

7:14which is an instant ability and I got my

7:16blessing of might and and devotion and I

7:18started to feel useful when flame was

7:20dying or something like that I was yeah

7:23I was going there to like you know be

7:25close in rage to give him that devotion

7:26or throw some heels

7:28>> with that in mind how good did it feel

7:30when you added an extra ability to your

7:32bars and you went back and did the same

7:33thing

7:33>> that's something that's something you

7:34don't have in retail you don't have it

7:36and it that that kind like made it work.

7:38Granted, everything is on cooldown, so

7:41there's not that much. Even the [ __ ]

7:43that is instant is on cool down,

7:45[laughter]

7:46but uh it it kind of like it kind of

7:48made me forget about this. And like just

7:51seeing the the immense amount of people

7:55even in the pay

7:58like it's like listen, you don't you

8:00only see this in retail in like big

8:02cities or in in vault.

8:04>> That because we have so much sharding on

8:06retail.

8:06>> Yeah. every every content is so so much

8:08in instanced that you feel you're

8:11segmented and I know we know we're just

8:13bidding a dead horse here. I mean this

8:15everybody knows this is retail forever

8:17forever is trying to to fix that. But I

8:20I kind of get this feeling that that uh

8:23retail pushed us into this like

8:25saturation of I don't know, man. Just

8:29the whole go go go go. Um optimize as

8:33much as you can. Uh go for every piece

8:36of uh gear, get showered in a lot of

8:39loot that you don't need. Upgrade

8:41tracks. Yeah. and and it's all it's all

8:44it's all coming to a point where I I

8:46really feel a lot of retail people kind

8:49of like miss just you know chilling out

8:53here's I'm I'm obviously I also like

8:55retail but I'm more of a classic Andy

8:57than Marcelian is and I do have to say

9:00no cuz cuz this is going to be an

9:02constant argument and personally I I

9:04don't find it interesting at all and I

9:06find it very boring. We've had this

9:07conversation for like 20 years now. Um

9:10retail combat is just better. It's

9:11always going to be better. It's way more

9:13fast-paced. It is why World of Warcraft

9:16retail is Yeah. This why we at least I

9:20think that World of Warcraft retail is

9:22alive despite the world, the story, the

9:25progression. I think it's main selling

9:26point is the polished combat.

9:29>> The combat carries the game.

9:30>> Yeah. So, that's never going to go away.

9:32And I don't see myself being able to

9:33play classic 24/7 and never touching

9:35retail. I'll always feel the need of

9:37hopping back on my Outlaw Rogue that you

9:39guys make me play on stream and then

9:41just like going smooth hit after hit

9:43after blast after blast. That's cool.

9:45But that's just a different game. They

9:47cannot replace each other. I feel like

9:49they complement each other. And I I'm

9:51100% that this is what the devs were

9:53going for. Hey, how about if you if

9:55you're tired of just doing that, how

9:57about you do this other thing instead?

9:58And that's kind of what they've been

10:00doing with classic ever since in what

10:022019 when they released it initially and

10:04how they're adding seasonal, how they're

10:06adding the remixes and the plunderstorms

10:08and all that stuff over

10:09>> modes and stuff. Yeah,

10:15>> I feel I feel like at this point um when

10:18when Forever will release, I'm pretty

10:20sure like not only the classic crowd is

10:22going to go in, I'm pretty sure a lot of

10:24the other games crowd would go in,

10:26retail crowd content. It is like this is

10:29the thing right uh it's okay at the

10:31beginning surely it will be the all

10:34rehash content we all know the quests

10:37the the raid but forever promises this

10:41horizontal progression where you would

10:43get a lot more content to do rather than

10:46having a lot more layers to put on

10:48yourself

10:50creep

10:50>> yeah this so you're not going you know

10:52uh up and up and up and up in power

10:55you're going do more and more and more

10:57and more and more So this is this is the

10:58the main thing which I feel is really

11:01exciting because it is this is the

11:04definition of horizontal progression

11:06with new content in the same universe

11:08and also what an MMO is supposed to be

11:10cuz we've lost the feeling of an MMO. I

11:12think that they had an interview with

11:14Game Informer and we've also watched

11:17that yesterday on stream

11:18twitch.tv/Marcellianflame TV/Marcelian

11:19Flame and uh one of the devs said that

11:22the type of content they're going to be

11:23releasing are, let's say, extra leveling

11:25zones for a specific level bracket that

11:27maybe doesn't have that many options for

11:29a lot of the other people. Of course,

11:31we're we're going to have raids. We're

11:32going to have endgame content as well.

11:33That's always going to be a thing,

11:34right? That's fundamentally the the

11:37endame goal. But what you will notice,

11:40and if you've paid attention and if

11:41you've played both games, you'll notice

11:42that there isn't that feeling of

11:44[snorts] FOMO, which is what retail kind

11:46of like

11:47>> it kind of relies on it.

11:48>> Yeah. Relies on it and kind of makes it

11:51feel because it's so seasonal because

11:52things are going away. You feel like,

11:54oh, if I don't do my vault this week,

11:56I'm I'm I'm like 500 hours behind and

11:59I'm missing my rep and then next next

12:01month or like 3 months from now, they're

12:02going to add a new rep and I'm going to

12:04have to start that. And that's fine for,

12:06you know, like dopamine gameplays, like,

12:08man, I just want to have fun. I just

12:09want to don't have to think too much.

12:10You just hop on retail and then you just

12:11go go go. But classic is more

12:13meaningful. Classic, this is what made

12:16people fall in love with her because it

12:17made them attach themselves to their

12:19character's emotions. You spend more

12:21time with it. You you grow your dude a

12:23lot. You you get to know the night

12:26elves, the orcs, the the stranglethorn

12:28veils, the siliths, the whatever. And

12:30they're like, man, I you spend more

12:31time. That's just natural. When you

12:33spend more time with stuff, bad times

12:35and good times, you get attached to

12:36things. And that's what created this

12:38culture and this personality that

12:40Warcraft has thrived on and why it

12:41peaked what 12 million players in Wrath

12:43or whatever it was at the time.

12:46>> You say about you talk about, you know,

12:48stuff that matters. So, I didn't realize

12:50how much I have been uh um wanting

12:56desiring the feel of an RPG within World

12:59of Warcraft

13:00until yesterday when I got an item

13:05>> which was not [laughter]

13:08item was level format.

13:09>> Yeah, it was not even plate. It was some

13:11male item that gave me 33 plus armor.

13:15And dude, the impact of a white item

13:19just and the joy of oh my god, now I can

13:22get to fight two mobs at a time. It was

13:25so this is this is crazy. I like I never

13:29realized how important and satisfying

13:31that is. Not to mention the quest when

13:33we get the weapons like that,

13:35>> dude. Yeah. In the in the in the same

13:37vein, once you g gave me that blessing

13:39of might and I was joking like we were

13:41joking on stream that my white damage

13:42went from like two to three hits on my

13:44daggers cuz I had to melee as a warlock

13:46because they kept attacking me and

13:47pushing back. My spellcasting was taking

13:49way too long and I was running out of

13:50mana. Um because I actually was doing

13:53almost double my my white damage with

13:55that blessing of might. I was I was

13:56actually being able to to fight three

13:58mobs at a time and not die by the time

14:00Marian came back and and and healed me

14:02cuz I died a bunch of times. Uh because

14:04I'm I'm I'm I'm wearing the dress. Okay.

14:07The dress is not proper combat armor.

14:09>> That's also cool. I feel like even our

14:11little experience up until level five or

14:13whatever even that just doing doing a

14:17quest with your homie and you know

14:20complimenting each others like you know

14:22try to tag mobs like go there uh stay

14:24there and get those mobs. Oh my god I'm

14:26dying. Oh my god I'm coming to you to

14:27heal. This is something that is not like

14:31you cannot feel this type of sentiment

14:33in retail. I don't I don't I don't I

14:35don't know how leveling is anymore in

14:36retail to be honest, but I doubt you

14:38have this sort of experience. Not to

14:40mention that a lot of people, you know,

14:42will just go ahead solo in in in forever

14:45and just party up with people they find

14:47around the world and maybe become

14:48friends. And this is another thing.

14:50>> That's how we used that's how

14:51>> this how it used to be. And it was the

14:52the social aspect of it was really cool

14:55like this. And hopefully like a lot of

14:57people will will get into this. So, I'm

15:00actually pretty excited. Initially, I

15:02wasn't, but I'm actually pretty excited

15:03to get back in it and, you know, grind

15:05the levels because I have I I now have

15:08tasted

15:08>> the satisfaction of leveling up, of

15:11getting going to your class trainer,

15:13getting a new ability. I cannot wait to

15:15get to level 10 and open the talents and

15:17see what that are, what those are all

15:18about items.

15:20You complain about swinging your mace

15:22and being boring, but that's part of the

15:24thing that Forever has fixed with. Okay,

15:26I'm okay with it now. Fallen changes

15:28with Holy Strike for instance, stuff

15:29like that. That wasn't

15:30>> that's I'm getting level six. I'm

15:32getting that [ __ ] [laughter] that holy

15:34strike in that and I'm going to love it.

15:36So, it's it's something that um me

15:39again, I'm a retail. I don't I couldn't

15:41give two shits and two [ __ ] about

15:43classic. I'm kind of excited about this

15:45and I really want to like get back into

15:48it and continue the the adventure. I

15:50feel like we're we're embarking on an

15:51adventure in World of Warcraft which I

15:54never thought I would feel again. I

15:55thought like for me World of Warcraft

15:57was always like, "Okay, new season. Bum

15:58bum. Let's choose a male. Let's choose

15:59an all. Get ready. Let's see like the

16:01proper optimization gearing. Uh we're

16:03going to push some mythic ready. We're

16:05going to push some keys. Okay, let's c

16:07let's craft this. Let's upgrade this. Uh

16:09make sure you save this crest." And it's

16:11all go. Fire it up. Make sure rotation

16:13is right. Practice that to target them,

16:15you know, win some guys. Look up look up

16:17some videos. Everything is And I like

16:19[music] that. I like that. It's still

16:21It's still still really fun.

16:23>> But I didn't realize how much I wanted

16:24this part of the game. It's like

16:27>> just going into it and like chill mode,

16:30but very immersive, very convincing,

16:32very satisfying. Okay.

16:34>> When do I take his ass to dead mines and

16:35I'll make him tank. We'll see how chill

16:37mode.

16:37>> Oh, I cannot wait. I'm I'm I'm down for

16:39whatever. I'm down for whatever. But

16:41again, it's not necessarily about the

16:43chill mode. It's about the need, the the

16:46missing of having an actual proper

16:49adventure in this world that we fell in

16:51love with. And so far, up until level

16:54six, five in our case,

16:57>> that what that promise is there. The the

16:59immersion is there, the um the care, the

17:02the satisfaction, the the desire, the

17:06lust to like find out more. And I cannot

17:08even tell you how how happy I am that we

17:11just walking everywhere and just seeing

17:13the the things. And

17:14>> dude, the the first time you get to West

17:16cuz I can I remember I've done this trip

17:18like I when I played back in back in the

17:20day vanilla. I've leveled so many

17:21characters. I barely played Endgame. The

17:23when you get to to Westfall for the

17:25first time and you actually get that

17:26flight both in S flight path in Sin was

17:28like, "Oh my god, the walk here was so I

17:31could just fly to Stormwind. Oh, that's

17:33so You don't get that feeling when you

17:34hop on on your Millennium Falcon in

17:36World of Warcraft,

17:38>> which is cool. I mean, listen, we're not

17:39trashing dragonflying, you know, what

17:42it's called, dynamic, like sky riding,

17:43whatever. It's really cool and we love

17:45it for what it is,

17:47>> but I'm just um excited to like, you

17:50know, and also the fact that there's a

17:52lot of content that awaits us. new

17:54dungeons, you know, excited for the

17:56raid, doing battlegrounds,

17:58>> and I like you talk about items. We

17:59didn't even get to like the cool new

18:01items that they've made, like all sorts

18:03of stats and things.

18:04>> Yeah. So, there's there's a lot to to be

18:06looking for. I don't know what this will

18:08mean in terms of our content. We'll see.

18:10We'll we'll we'll definitely play both

18:12retail and uh and forever. Uh but, you

18:15know, color us.

18:17>> Yeah. Yeah. Like, we have a couple of

18:19ideas already. Expect uh expect forever

18:21content as well. Retail is not going

18:23anywhere. Don't you worry about that.

18:24We'll have more stuff as well.

18:26>> And in the meantime, you can watch this

18:29video.

18:29>> What video?

18:30>> This is a video.

18:30>> Uh, check out this video. Click this

18:32video.

18:32>> It's really nice and we talk about stuff

18:35that's really cool. Warcraft 3 Forsaken

18:38Kingdom because that's also very OG

18:40Warcraft. And you have to watch this.

18:42>> That's why everybody's playing for

18:44Undead Paladins right now.

18:45>> Dude, you have to like if you enjoyed

18:46the story of original Warcraft and

18:48Warcraft, you have to play this. I'm

18:50telling you. It's not necessarily an RTS

18:52more of an RPG, but damn. Click click.