השקעות למתחילים: אופטימיזציית מס בהשקעה במניות

0:01The most important subject , which is

0:03about saving money . How do you operate

0:07in terms of smart taxation on stocks ?

0:09I’ll say it right now , not the most

0:11interesting broadcast , but one of the

0:13most important . You are welcome to join

0:15us . Everything about capital market

0:18taxation and how to reduce it .

0:21Investing for beginners . Avner Stepak

0:24and Omer Avinovich help with the first

0:26steps in the world of investing . Okay ,

0:33so today we will talk about a super

0:35important topic . I truly recommend

0:38taking this broadcast we’re doing now

0:40and even listening to it twice . And

0:43it’s not only important for high

0:45amounts . I will tell the person today :

0:47I’ll give a quick demonstration for

0:50someone with 100,000 shekels , and

0:51you’ll realize that for a person with

0:54100,000 shekels , these tips can save

0:56hundreds of thousands of shekels over a

0:58lifetime . Anyone who has more —

1:00sometimes it's millions , sometimes it's

1:03tens of millions . And to understand how

1:05important this is , I will give a small

1:07demonstration for someone with 100,000

1:10shekels at age 18 : let's take a

1:12conservative assumption that every year

1:14that same person buys stocks , sells all

1:16their stocks , swaps their portfolio ,

1:18and therefore makes the same form of

1:20stock returns at 10 % per year . Only

1:23every year , that 25 % is deducted from

1:25them . A tax . Let's take it to

1:31retirement . Meaning , over ah . 47 years ,

1:36for that same person in terms of return

1:39, how do I do the calculation that you

1:41can do yourselves ? You multiply by

1:441.075 . To the power of 47 . And you get

1:52a million , 3 million shekels , which is

1:54very nice . Those same 100,000 shekels

1:57turned into 3 million shekels . If I

2:00take that same number , exactly the same

2:03thing , only instead of saying 7.5 % per

2:06year , meaning I won't multiply it by

2:091.075 , I will multiply it by 1.1 , the

2:1210 % , and pay tax at the end . Meaning we

2:15won't pay every year but will act with

2:17tax deferral . Then we will get instead

2:20of 3 million shekels . 8.8 . Million

2:24shekels . That’s a difference of 5.8

2:27million shekels . From that 8.8 million

2:31shekels we need to deduct 25 % tax . So we

2:34will deduct 2 . Ah , 2.2 % tax . And then we

2:40will get a difference of more than

2:41double the money . Now , for most people

2:44listening to this podcast , for most of

2:47them , I say at least half the listeners

2:49here and now , 3 million shekels is not

2:51a little money . And that’s when you

2:54started with 100,000 shekels . I tell

2:56you , I did this calculation with people

2:58, it comes out to many millions and

3:00tens of millions . Of course , those who

3:02are young have less money . But those

3:05who are older — cheer up , you have more

3:07money , but you have fewer years to live

3:09, so it balances out , so it’s the

3:11same in that regard . And the State of

3:15Israel is a very , very , very friendly

3:18country in terms of taxation for those

3:20who work smart , and very unfriendly for

3:22those who don't work smart . So what we

3:26will do over the next 20 minutes , we

3:28will provide all the tips on how to do

3:30it smartly . Why do I recommend doing

3:33this ? Listening to this podcast twice .

3:36I’m telling you , I speak with , and

3:38high-level clients from the market have

3:40arrived , the most senior you can

3:42imagine in the market here . Ah , people

3:44from high-tech , people who have been

3:46following the podcast for just half a

3:48year , and also those who have been

3:50following the podcast and YouTube for

3:52five years . There are few people ,

3:57almost individuals , who have managed to

3:59do what I will say today ; even though

4:01it is quite clear analytically what

4:03needs to be done , few people actually

4:05do it , and therefore . A : It is

4:10recommended to come for planning in

4:12order to do it , and B. It is

4:13recommended to hear this twice in order

4:15to increase the chance that you will do

4:17some of it on your own . So let's begin :

4:21Why is the State of Israel such a tax

4:24paradise ? Let’s go back to the 80s .

4:29Back then we had inflation of hundreds

4:31of percent per year , meaning a bit like

4:33what is happening in Iran . You start

4:36the month , say a loaf of bread cost 10

4:38NIS , at the end of the month a loaf

4:41cost 13 NIS , the next month it cost 16

4:44NIS , at the end of the year it already

4:46cost 30 NIS , meaning there was 100 %

4:49inflation . As a result , they said wait ,

4:51how do you tax such a thing ? And

4:54therefore it was determined that in the

4:56State of Israel , taxation is real

4:58taxation . What does that mean ? If you

5:01earned , you had 100 NIS , you earned 10

5:04NIS , and the inflation was 4 NIS , you

5:06won't pay tax on the entire 10 NIS , you

5:09will pay only on the 6 NIS , on this gap

5:12, adjusted for inflation , but , and here

5:15is a big but , a terrible but . It does

5:19not apply to dollar investments , and

5:21that means if you earned , you invested

5:23100 dollars , you earned 10 dollars , and

5:26the inflation was in that same period

5:28say 10 % . You won't ... you will still pay

5:34tax from the first shekel on the entire

5:3610 dollars , and therefore Israel is

5:38less encouraging of dollar investments

5:40and less friendly . But we are the State

5:45of the Jews and the wisdom of the Jews ,

5:47it is known like in the Gemara , we are

5:49smart , and every problem has a solution

5:51. So let’s talk about a solution for

5:57those who have dollar investments , but

5:59before we talk about the solution ,

6:00another problem : the State of Israel is

6:03a country that needs money . Okay ? By

6:07the way , it does it well , it takes

6:09money , there is a low deficit here , and

6:11that is a good thing , and so on . And

6:16like in many places in the world , there

6:18is also a " mis-kara , " a wealth tax , or

6:21some refer to it as a surtax . Meaning ,

6:25for anyone who has an income above

6:28721,000 shekels , they don't pay like

6:30what I said , 25 % real tax if it is on

6:33shekel investments — shekel investments

6:36meaning a mutual fund , a training fund

6:38beyond the ceiling , an Israeli stock ,

6:41an Israeli index — they won't pay 25 %

6:43inflation-adjusted , they will pay 30 %

6:46inflation-adjusted or 30 % from the first

6:49shekel if we are in a dollar investment

6:51. Meaning , meaning I invested in Amazon

6:55100 dollars , Amazon went from 100

6:57dollars to 200 dollars , and hello to

6:59Avner , the direct one from the Harvard

7:02program somewhere or there , all there

7:04in Boston . Let me set the background

7:07and I’ll be with you right away . Yes .

7:10That ... so . Wait .

7:15Ah , I know .

7:19Okay .

7:20Okay , let’s continue .

7:22Hello to Avner who joined us from

7:24somewhere from . Harvard or some fancy

7:28academic concept .

7:29Ah , we’ll reach you in a moment , just

7:31in the middle of the explanation . So ,

7:33the same thing , we explained the surtax

7:35.

7:3630 % on the real profit , or 30 % from the

7:38first shekel if it’s a dollar-based

7:41investment . Now , some say , " Okay ,

7:43you're giving an example here of Nvidia

7:46, it was 100 and now it's worth 200. " I

7:48want to give you an improvement : two

7:51clients , two clients started with a

7:53million-shekel portfolio — both ... you

7:56have two clients , not " two " [ feminine ] ,

7:58you know , but two [ masculine ] .

8:01I was waiting , I said , " You're on the

8:03Arvad show and I want you to feel smart

8:05. " I said , " Let's make a mistake at the

8:07beginning , I'll let you be so smart ,

8:09you understand ? Here . "

8:11Nice .

8:11Alright , let's move on .

8:13Anyway , nice . Both started with a

8:16portfolio of a million-something

8:17shekels , pretty similar , and both

8:19reached the 14-15 million range . Now ,

8:21in situations like this , it’s always

8:24a time effect — you've had the

8:26portfolio for a long time , okay ? But

8:28it’s always related , when something

8:30like this happens , to some stock that

8:32made many , many multiples on the money .

8:36In this case , both of them bought

8:39Nvidia back in the day , who knows when ,

8:41and there’s nothing to do ; when a

8:43stock does 20 or 30 times your money ,

8:46even if you invested 200,000 shekels ,

8:48it turns into 6 million , okay ? Of

8:51course , there were other companies . One

8:54difference between the clients : one did

8:56it inside a tax-deferred platform . Both

9:00realized Nvidia was half their

9:02portfolio — one did it in a

9:03tax-deferred platform and one didn't .

9:06The one who did it in a tax-deferred

9:08platform — we'll talk in a moment about

9:10what a tax-deferred platform is — had

9:12zero tax at the sale . The one who did

9:14it in a dollar-based platform not only

9:17paid 30 % tax ( because it's all subject

9:19to surtax , meaning he didn't pay 25 %

9:21from the first shekel , he paid 30 % ) ,

9:24and they didn't deduct inflation , but

9:26worse than that : the dollar also

9:28dropped during that period , and they

9:30don't deduct the dollar's decline .

9:34Meaning , let’s say , let’s say the

9:36person made 5 million shekels on a

9:38200,000 shekel investment — because

9:41those are the numbers , I know it sounds

9:43wild , but it just made imaginary

9:45numbers ( doesn't happen often in life ,

9:47it just needs to happen once ) . So , the

9:525 million he earned , let's say in

9:54dollars — let's say it was two million

9:57dollars — but in shekels it’s only 5

9:59million shekels because the dollar also

10:01fell . Anyway , astronomical gaps in

10:05their wealth , because one had zero tax

10:08and one had 30 % tax , and they didn't

10:10deduct inflation and didn't deduct the

10:13dollar's devaluation . Meaning , the

10:16actual bite was much more than 30 % ,

10:18because in shekel terms let's say he

10:20earned only a certain X , and I

10:22understood , the shekel profit was much ,

10:24much lower than the dollar profit held

10:27in dollars until the end . Therefore , in

10:30the State of Israel , there are all

10:32kinds of options for tax-deferred

10:34platforms that not only defer the tax ,

10:36they also allow you to pay on the real

10:38profit and not on the nominal profit .

10:41The dollar-based one , and it splits —

10:43the investing public is divided into

10:46two : one , those who say " I don't know

10:48how to pick the winning stock " ( by the

10:50way , that’s the vast majority , and

10:52rightly so ) . Okay , chasing stocks —

10:54that was indeed a cool and full story I

10:57told , but let’s put it this way : for

10:59every such story , there are also many

11:01other stories that are less good . And

11:03they say : I will manage the money with

11:05the institutional investors . So here

11:07are some highly recommended

11:09tax-deferral platforms : first , the

11:11investment provident fund — an

11:13excellent product , limited to 80,000 ,

11:16with 25 % tax on real gains after

11:18inflation . And the big bonus is that I

11:22know that a person aged 30 , 35 , or 40

11:24when they deposit into an investment

11:27provident fund gives it almost zero

11:29probability , but the years pass and the

11:31profit grows and grows and grows , and

11:34at age 60 , if you take the money as an

11:36annuity , you can withdraw the money at

11:390 % tax . Now , that sounds like a big

11:45benefit to him , but let’s take this

11:47benefit so you understand the numbers :

11:49just on 80,000 shekels that you

11:51deposited once at age 20 , so the 80,000

11:53shekels at age 20 — after all , we said

11:55in stocks in recent years they doubled

11:58the money every five years , but let’s

12:00assume they double the money every

12:02seven years according to the historical

12:04average , that’s the average . This

12:09means that at the person's age of 27 ,

12:12the 80,000 shekels are 160 , at the

12:15person's age of 35 , the 160 are 320 , at

12:19the person's age of 42 , the 320 are 640

12:22, at the age — where were we ? Because

12:27every seven years you double the money .

12:29You know what ? Times 2 every seven

12:30years you double the money . At what age

12:32were we ? 3 , 42 , 49 , the 640 becomes 1

12:37million 280 . At age 640 , 1 million 280 ?

12:45Yes , I was right . At age 40 , 56 we are

12:48already at 2.5 million . At the age of

12:52... no , we said 49 . At age 56 We are

12:57over 2.5 million . At age 62 we are

13:00already over 5 million . At age 60 we

13:03are already reaching those amounts .

13:05At age 120 we are billionaires , moving

13:07on .

13:08Uh , and now as time goes by you say :

13:10wait , a large tax has already

13:11accumulated , if I cash out all the

13:13money I’ll also pay a high-income tax

13:15. And maybe you won't take that money

13:17out , and you will decide to take that

13:19money as an annuity , because as an

13:21annuity everything is completely exempt

13:22. That is one way , and anyone who is a

13:25licensed dealer , or exempt dealer , can

13:27take the training fund and not just

13:29deposit 20,000 at the end of the year .

13:33You can deposit beyond the ceiling , you

13:35can deposit 100 , 50,000 , a million . The

13:38largest deposit that was made with me

13:40was several tens of millions into a

13:41training fund beyond the ceiling . There

13:43is no limit . And the best plan of all ,

13:47there is a program called Amendment 190

13:49. Listen carefully , even those for whom

13:53this is not relevant , it might be very

13:55relevant to mom and dad , because your

13:57mom and dad are over the age of 60 .

14:00This is a program that will usually be

14:02relevant from age 50 or 55 , unless you

14:04really have a lot of money , and then it

14:06is from a younger age too , because

14:08there is one drawback to the program :

14:10the money is not liquid until age 60 .

14:13But why this drawback ? Amendment 190 is

14:16the best program because you pay 25 % tax

14:19overall . You pay a 15 % nominal tax ,

14:21correct , not inflation-adjusted , but it

14:25is still a 15 % tax . You can switch

14:27tracks , switch institutions , switch

14:29plans , you can do whatever you want ,

14:31and it is not a taxable event . Let's

14:33return for a moment to the beginning ,

14:35the story about stocks abroad . Think

14:38about that Nvidia , or that Amazon , or

14:41that Google : whoever buys it personally

14:44will pay 25 % or 35 % or 30 % with the surtax

14:51– tax at source , with no way to

14:53account for the dollar . Those same

14:56stocks in general , we said , there are

14:58plans at the institutions where you can

15:01choose the track : dollar S & P , shekel ,

15:03shekel Nasdaq , general track – everyone

15:05in the track that suits them . But there

15:09is also an additional plan called [ IRA ]

15:11where you can actually choose the

15:13stocks yourself , and you could buy that

15:15Google , Meta , Amazon , Nvidia , the

15:17Nasdaq index , the S & P index , which is

15:20the holy of holies of the ... I don't

15:22know , high-tech of various kinds ,

15:24although if you sanctify the S & P so

15:26much – it made only half the return of

15:28the Nasdaq , so that's also a point to

15:31think about . But the exact same stocks ,

15:34when you have them , you have zero tax ,

15:37and when you withdraw the money , you

15:39have 15 % tax . For those who have parents

15:41already 60 years of age . Actually , at

15:43age 60 you are already exempt , assuming

15:45you are age 60 and have a pension of

15:47105,000 NIS , and then there are many

15:49parents for whom this is very strange .

15:51They buy stocks in a portfolio when

15:53they could buy stocks in Amendment 190 ,

15:55which is also a portfolio at the bank .

15:57Think , you have a portfolio at Meitav

16:00Dash , one with tax at source , or at

16:02Meitav Dash without tax at source .

16:06Usually in the current , and when you

16:08withdraw 15 % , or a portfolio at Leumi

16:10with tax at source , or at Leumi through

16:13Amendment 190 , then it's the same – you

16:16have no tax at all on buying and

16:18selling . And when you withdraw the

16:20money , it's only 15 % tax , provided you

16:23have two conditions combined : one , that

16:26you don't have ... uh , let's say you are

16:28age 60 and have a pension of 5,000 NIS .

16:32I will pass the floor in a moment to

16:33Avner , but I just want , can I say the

16:35following thing ? A moment before , in

16:37the world of investments , it's what to

16:40invest in . But what I want to say in

16:42this broadcast is that it's no less

16:44important which platform to invest

16:46through . Where does this Sudoku become

16:48complex ? I see it with us . You say ,

16:53wait , I have one platform , the worst is

16:55when they take tax at source , that's

16:57the worst , but I have one platform

16:59where I pay 25 % , correct , it's

17:01inflation-linked like in a study fund

17:04beyond the ceiling for someone who is

17:06self-employed , there is an option for a

17:08platform where perhaps we pay zero tax ,

17:11an investment provident fund or

17:13Amendment 190 , and where is it worth

17:15putting things with the highest return ,

17:17more to where we will pay zero tax or

17:20little tax ?

17:22To where you pay the least tax . Okay ,

17:24now I also feel smart , I corrected

17:27Avner the genius .

17:28Oh boy , oh boy , straight from ... some

17:31kind of university lecture hall . So I

17:35say , you have to match what you invest

17:37in and which platform you choose to

17:38invest through . Those who do it right ,

17:43I tell you , I’ve seen differences of

17:45millions of shekels on the same

17:46investments . Now , who is this for ? For

17:49whom is this most important ? Even more

17:51so . It's important to everyone , but

17:53there are some for whom it's a must .

17:55Who are the folks for whom it's even

17:57more important ? Hi-tech workers with

18:00RSUs . Why is it so important for

18:03hi-tech workers with RSUs ? The State of

18:06Israel has been good to you ; it told

18:08you , " It's on me . " When you received

18:12your vested shares — that is , the

18:13moment the shares are yours and you can

18:15sell them and do whatever you want — I

18:17don't tax you like the United States ,

18:19Ireland , or Europeans do . I only tax

18:23you when you sell the stock , which is a

18:25benefit Israelis have that doesn't

18:26exist abroad . Abroad , usually , the

18:30moment you receive the shares , you're

18:32hit with tax , so you have to sell them .

18:36However , because of this , many Israelis

18:38— you can argue whether it's justified

18:40or not , it obviously depends on the

18:42company — decide not to sell the shares

18:44, and the shares grow and grow and grow

18:46, and these are people who , by

18:47definition , will be in a high tax

18:49bracket when they sell . But wait , what

18:53then ? If you took care to manage your

18:55taxes properly yesterday — meaning ,

18:57you’re listening to this podcast ,

18:59you’re doing exactly what I say

19:01immediately , and you’re working with

19:02tax-deferred platforms . Meaning those

19:05that defer tax so that when you buy and

19:07sell there or change tracks , it’s not

19:09a taxable event . So let's say I

19:12profited , I made a million shekels in a

19:14tax-deferred platform ; for income tax

19:16purposes , it’s as if I earned zero .

19:19Why ? Because everything that happens

19:21inside the world of tax deferral is

19:23irrelevant . Okay ? It's not a taxable

19:27event . And then , if you want to sell

19:29your RSUs , those same shares you

19:31received ( and it doesn't matter if you

19:33work at Google , Amazon , or any other

19:35company ) , you could sell 721,000

19:37shekels worth without having to pay

19:39that excess tax ( high-bracket tax ) . So ,

19:42if you aren't working at all , then on

19:45that , on the full 721 ; and if you do

19:47have an income , there's a 3 % and 5 %

19:49excess tax ( that’s not our main topic

19:52, but it’s good to know — 1,721,000

19:54shekels of annual income ) , you will pay

19:57an extra 5 % on the excess amount .

19:59Meaning , the 3 % excess tax plus another

20:022 % . 721 , that's what it will save you .

20:05But if you aren't working at all or

20:07you're between jobs and you're selling ,

20:09you can literally sell 721,000 shekels

20:11without paying that 5 % . In other words ,

20:13for hi-tech workers , it’s not just

20:15tax-deferred instruments — that is , tax

20:17deferral — it’s not just real

20:19taxation instead of nominal ( if it’s

20:20a study fund ) , it’s not just

20:22tax-exempt ( if it’s Amendment 190 ) ;

20:27It additionally allows them to sell

20:28those same RSUs without the excess tax .

20:33Therefore , for high-tech workers or

20:34people who hold shares or companies ,

20:36who today , according to the law , anyone

20:38who owns a company must distribute a

20:40dividend to themselves , these are

20:42people , because a law was passed that

20:44anyone who owns a company has 6 percent

20:46of a dividend they must distribute .

20:48People like Avner are an example , ah no

20:50, Avner , you are a large company .

20:52Not really , yes , I am forced to pull

20:54out a dividend even when I don't want

20:56to , yes , because of that .

20:58Okay , that too , so .

21:02So these are people for whom tax

21:04deferral is even more important ,

21:06because this dividend is actually

21:08income , and then if they work with tax

21:10deferral , at least 721,000 shekels out

21:13of this dividend will not be subject to

21:15surplus tax , which is an advantage ; if

21:17you didn't work with tax deferral , the

21:20entire dividend would probably be taxed

21:22with surplus tax . Meaning , business

21:27owners , people from high-tech , things

21:29like that , it's even more important for

21:31them to be careful about the worlds of

21:33tax deferral . And the State of Israel

21:36is kind and generous and allows for

21:38multiple and different platforms , also

21:40for the self-employed , also for this .

21:44And and because of that , all those who

21:46are complaining now , because they

21:48taught us to say : " Ah , the State of

21:50Israel is cruel . " Wow , the State of

21:53Israel is good for high-tech people !

21:56There is no tax on wealth , we don't

21:58have inheritance taxes here , there is

22:00no tax on a first apartment . It is

22:01possible to work on platforms with tax

22:03deferral . You just have to be smart and

22:07do it . And I tell you , in our planning

22:10meetings — even when you listen to this

22:13episode — usually I invite you to come

22:15to us . Even until you come and do it

22:17with someone specifically , many times

22:19it simply doesn't happen . It surprises

22:21me anew , but that is the reality . Avner

22:23, where are you ? Where are you

22:25broadcasting from ? Tell everyone .

22:28I am in a CEO course at Harvard , really

22:30in Boston at the university , I returned

22:32to boot camp , student dorms behind me ,

22:35can you believe it ? So yes , actually

22:38it's fun here .

22:39Give us an insight already from the

22:41course , it's very intensive , I know , I

22:43know , they study from morning to night ,

22:45six days a week , no discounts , only on

22:47Sunday they don't study , and even then

22:50you have to study everything you have

22:52for the next week , but ah , it's fine .

22:54One that you want to share already .

22:56Wow , that's not for now , let's do that

22:58maybe , let me think , in the next

23:00episode , so to speak , something else ,

23:02something else that is important , but I

23:04have a lot to say about taxes .

23:06You arrived in all the pension worlds ,

23:08tricks and shticks for high-tech people

23:10or just people who want to defer taxes ,

23:12tax-deferral tools like investment

23:14provident funds and so on . I want to

23:16talk for a moment about the basics of

23:18people who just buy stocks or index

23:20funds through tracking funds like that ,

23:22and they have an account at the bank or

23:24an account at Meitav Dash or anywhere

23:26else . And I want to mention , actually ,

23:28the basic principles of taxation . We

23:30talked about the fact that there is a

23:32tax , in 90 - something percent of the

23:34products the tax is 25 percent on your

23:36real profit . You bought a Check Point

23:39stock on the stock market , you made

23:41money , you sold it , you paid a tax of a

23:43quarter of the real profit , meaning for

23:45.

23:46Wait , wait , if it's an Israeli-American

23:48stock , it's 25 percent nominal , meaning

23:50.

23:52We are talking about an Israeli stock

23:53here , let’s say for simplicity that

23:55you bought Bank Hapoalim .

23:58You earned 8 % per year for three years .

24:02You have to pay tax . How much tax ? A

24:04quarter of the real profit . Let's do a

24:06simple calculation : suppose in a

24:08certain year you sold that stock and

24:10you are in profit , and you held it for

24:12exactly a year . You made an 8 % profit on

24:14the stock — the nominal rate , as it's

24:16called , before adjusting for inflation .

24:18But in those 12 months that you held

24:21Bank Leumi — I mean Bank Hapoalim ,

24:23sorry — inflation rose by 3 % . Meaning ,

24:27for tax purposes , your profit isn't the

24:298 % nominal , but 5 % , which is the real

24:32profit — 8 minus 3 for inflation . And

24:35you need to pay a quarter of that 5 % ,

24:38which is 1.25 % . What are you left with

24:40in your hand ? 6.75 % . 6.75 % , which is

24:45the 8 % gross you made minus the tax . It

24:50turns out effectively that what we call

24:53a 25 % real tax is roughly 15 % — it's not

24:55exact , it depends on inflation , of

24:57course , on your profit . Basically you

25:01made eight , you stayed with 6.75 , okay ?

25:04Now , in principle , any losses you have

25:07— and again , when I say profits and

25:09losses , we are not talking about on

25:11paper ( you didn't buy a stock that

25:13dropped 90 % but you didn't sell ) — these

25:15are realized losses . Remember that for

25:18income tax , both for profits and losses

25:20, all the accounting is based on

25:22profits and losses that were actually

25:24realized . Okay , for that matter , and I

25:27will say one more thing : the accounting

25:29is indeed within a calendar year , which

25:31is the automatic calculation the bank

25:33or the brokerage firm like Meitav Trade

25:35will do for you . But theoretically , if

25:39you are in a situation where you paid

25:41excess tax , the accumulated losses you

25:43have for tax purposes , this tax shield

25:45goes with you to the next year and

25:46beyond , and there is always the option ,

25:49if the amount is significant to you , to

25:51go to the tax authority proactively and

25:53receive a refund . I will give a

25:57practical example : wait , we are in 2026

26:00, but this is true every year , you are

26:02now ... in all the months from January to

26:04September you earned 70,000 shekels

26:07realized . Okay ? You might have a profit

26:12of 200,000 in your portfolio , but

26:1470,000 of it is actually from stocks

26:16you sold during this year . And then

26:20suddenly in the last months of the year

26:21there are heavy losses , and I see a lot

26:23of what remains in your portfolio . Many

26:26of them recorded a loss , okay ? A

26:29historical loss , not just in those

26:31three months but since you bought them .

26:34Okay , and now you will sell that same

26:36stock that lost value , let's say you

26:38are down 50,000 shekels on it . I

26:40deliberately want to give relatively

26:42dramatic examples . Okay , on the 70,000

26:44you already paid tax . The bank or trade

26:47firm already collected from you in

26:49April , May , June , and on all the sales ,

26:51you already paid tax . At the end of

26:55that calendar year you have losses . In

26:57principle , if we were to look at the

26:58whole year together , it could be that

27:00you pay tax only on 20,000 shekels

27:02profit , right ? Because you earned 70

27:05realized , and lost 50 realized . Okay ,

27:08so you're left with a net profit of

27:09only 20 , but the profits came before

27:11the loss ; the profits were already

27:13taxed , and now you have a loss . In such

27:16a situation , you can proactively go to

27:18the tax authority at the beginning of

27:20next year , at the start of '27 , and say

27:22: " Guys , you taxed me this year on 50

27:24or 70 thousand in profit , even though I

27:27actually only earned 20 ; refund the

27:29excess tax to me . " That is an option .

27:32Another option is simply to say : " Okay ,

27:34the tax shield is these losses I had in

27:36... "

27:37You carry it over automatically in a

27:39master account ; it’s an eternal , it's

27:41not ...

27:43But my recommendation is , often if you

27:45have a large loss in some stock , sell

27:47it before all the profitable papers you

27:50have .

27:52Buy it back .

27:53Yes .

27:54And then when you sell , first of all ,

27:55you'll feel good because you won't see

27:57it in the red anymore , and then you'll

27:59receive ... ...

28:00In retrospect , the question is whether

28:02I want to buy them back or not . If the

28:05answer is — look , this is a trick that ,

28:07psychologically , is not bad . When you

28:11see a security at a loss , you don't

28:12want to sell it because you don't want

28:14to realize the loss .

28:16Until it returns to the principal .

28:17This tax , right now , is often a reason

28:19why it's not a good security . This tax

28:22is essentially your way to emotionally

28:24justify to yourself why you are selling

28:25it now . Now , if you sell it and you

28:28feel in your gut : " Wow , I need to buy

28:30this , " then it's probably a good buy .

28:33But often you'll feel : " So I sold it ,

28:34fine , let's not buy it back , " and

28:36you've done yourself a double favor . We

28:38need to .

28:39We are already towards the end , so I

28:41want to say two last things .

28:43One , as I said , forget the psychology

28:45behind it for a moment . Essentially ,

28:49you have stocks at a significant loss ;

28:51you can sell them and buy them back .

28:53True , it involves a small , negligible

28:55commission , but you are basically

28:57resetting the tax basis , locking in the

28:59loss for tax purposes so you can offset

29:01it later against profits that were made

29:04or will be made going forward . And two ,

29:07you are now starting the tax only from

29:09the lower level , but again , until you

29:12sell the stock the second time , you

29:14obviously won't pay on it . Second issue

29:17, do you go to the tax authority or not

29:19? Again , it's just a function of the

29:22size of your profit . Because if it's

29:25significant , you might say : " I don't

29:27want to wait for the future when I can

29:30offset the excess tax they collected

29:32from me ; I want it now , a few months

29:34into '27 . " If it's not significant ,

29:37don't bother with the tax authority ;

29:39it's not worth it . You don't lose

29:41anything by it ; your tax balances

29:43continue with you . And Yoav , not now ,

29:45Irit is writing here that you don't

29:47need to go to the tax authority unless

29:49you are investing in more than one bank

29:51; the bank itself constantly offsets

29:53losses against profits throughout the

29:55year . But it's the same question again :

29:57if you had a profit earlier , the bank

29:58already offset it , I don't know if it

30:00can refund it or not . Honestly , that's

30:01a good question that needs checking . I

30:03mean Avner , if the bank sold something

30:05at a profit and already transferred the

30:07money to the tax authority , does the

30:09bank automatically refund it when you

30:11sell at a loss ?

30:13No , no , I was saying if , if in the

30:15first eight months , for example , you

30:17had tax and then a loss occurred .

30:21Your only way is either to carry the

30:23loss forward or to the tax authority ,

30:25right . And yes , you can sell and buy a

30:29day later ; it's hard for the tax

30:31authority to claim it's a fictitious

30:33transaction . Again , if you did it in

30:35the exact same second , then maybe ,

30:36second after second , perhaps yes .

30:38I also haven't seen him claim , like

30:40anyone else , this thing , this one . In

30:42general , we need to wrap up , but listen

30:45carefully : for those who join us at "

30:47Mashki'anim , " today we will talk about

30:49how it happens that even though

30:51interest rates keep rising in the

30:53United States — at least the long-term

30:55rates , which makes debt more expensive

30:57and everything — the market keeps going

30:59up . And does it have the potential to

31:02keep rising , or will the party come to

31:03an end ? So you are welcome to join us ,

31:06we have to move on .

31:07And I'll just say to Tzvika Arnik who

31:09asked us about offsets for the disabled

31:11, I left you a private message , respond

31:13to it , you'll see it in the chat , ah ,

31:15and we'll answer you separately . It

31:17doesn't justify a podcast , let's call

31:19it that , but definitely for the

31:21disabled , you should know there are

31:23more tax benefits , and now we're moving

31:25on .

31:25Okay .