⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ TRAUMATHERAPIE: Komplette FLOATING-SITZUNG 1 mit Gopal Norbert Klein (+ Wissen & Hintergründe)

0:25Alright , welcome to Floating . Perhaps

0:29some of you are interested in where the

0:32word " Floating " even comes from . Well ,

0:35for one , " Floating " has the A to Z in

0:38it . I think that's pretty cool . And

0:41secondly , the term simply emerged from

0:44the idea that we are here to complete

0:47encounter and communication . This means

0:52it’s about moving toward one another ,

0:54but not as a task . So , I think "

0:57floating " fits quite well . " Floating "

0:59means , in German , uh , to hover or to

1:01drift . So , we drift toward one another .

1:03We approach each other , but without

1:05turning it into a fight , a struggle , or

1:06a tone . So , that is a bit of the

1:09background of the , uh , of the word "

1:11floating . " Lo , um , it doesn't just lead

1:17to us getting in touch and having fewer

1:20problems in contact and relationships ,

1:24but it also has a completely different

1:27dimension . Because when we , when the

1:31autonomic nervous system reaches a

1:33deeper state of relaxation through us

1:36experiencing more safety in contact and

1:39relationships , then it also leads to ,

1:41like , a , um , like access to meditation

1:44and spirituality . So this work here is

1:47not just trauma work , but it is also an

1:50interface to spirituality , to

1:52meditation , because ultimately , I can

1:54only meditate if I can find peace , but

1:57as long as these attachment conflicts

1:59aren't resolved , our system can never

2:02find peace . We can artificially do

2:05something to force it into a bit of

2:07calm , but ultimately , it can only find

2:10peace in the depths when the organism

2:12classifies life or the environment as

2:15safe , provided there is actually no

2:17danger present . So that’s why it’s

2:21much more than it might look like at

2:23the beginning . Um , it simply opens

2:26doors and gateways in all sorts of

2:28directions . Good , so let's get started .

2:34Uh , who has the session ticket ? All

2:37right . Good , then the process now would

2:39be for you to say in two or three

2:40sentences what it’s about , why you

2:42are here , what you would like to

2:44resolve , how the suffering manifests in

2:46your life , and then we'll begin . Okay .

2:50Um , for me , it’s that , uh , when I get

2:53in touch with people and have the

2:55feeling of having said something wrong

2:58or done something wrong , that I then ,

3:00afterward , um , uh , get annoyed about it

3:03, very annoyed . And it goes so far that

3:07, over a long period , I keep putting

3:10myself into that situation , re-enacting

3:13it , and trying to mentally change it to

3:16bring it back into a harmonious state ,

3:19and that sometimes stretches out over a

3:22long time .

3:24Exactly .

3:24Okay . Um , and what is it that you

3:26suffer from ? Well , the suffering is

3:28just this this constant these constant

3:30thoughts . I constantly enter that

3:33emotion , judge myself for certain

3:35statements I've made or certain things

3:37I've done , and uh , which , let's say , to

3:40an outsider might not necessarily be

3:42anything terrible , but

3:44yes , you know , those are a lot of

3:46narratives and stories now . Try saying

3:48in one word what you suffer from .

3:50Shame . Yes , exactly . Good , then tell me

3:55, intuitively and without overthinking

3:58it , who in this room has the most to do

4:02with that ? Okay , will you participate ?

4:20Great , so the process now is that the

4:22three of us will stand in the middle ,

4:24you watch and listen , and we work in

4:26the center . And um , it's an advantage

4:29for you to just be present for the work

4:32and uh , engage with it , because you

4:34will see that something happens inside

4:36you . From the outside , it looks

4:39unspectacular , but it touches the

4:41deepest levels of experience . Um , and

4:44that's why a lot can happen inside you

4:46just by watching . Good , then let's do

4:49that . And uh , exactly , I would ask you

4:53to stand here and you stand there , so

4:56you have a bit of distance for now . Yes

4:59, maybe move a bit more that way , in

5:01that direction , exactly , so it's a bit

5:03diagonal . Then we have the maximum

5:06possible spectrum here . Okay , then the

5:09first step now is for you , when you

5:11look at her , to say what you imagine ,

5:13what the threat from her is , what she

5:16is doing right now . Um , that she that

5:24she um is thinking something bad about

5:26me . That's the first thought that comes

5:29to mind .

5:30Yes , although you wouldn't even notice

5:32that ,

5:33right ?

5:34And the second is that you cannot

5:35threaten anyone just by thinking . Hm .

5:38No one has ever been hurt or even

5:39killed by someone else thinking badly

5:41of them .

5:42So there must be more thoughts that

5:45pose a real danger to you .

5:50Then the thought comes that she that

5:51she comes toward me and makes herself

5:55look big . Hm .

6:00What do you mean by making herself look

6:01big ? I mean , she can't change her

6:03physical size .

6:03Yeah . Yes . So , if I show you like this

6:07now

6:08exactly , she raises her arms over me

6:10and uh screams at me . Mhm .

6:12Mhm . Then throws me to the ground .

6:28Is there anything else , or is it

6:30that she might knock you unconscious ?

6:35Okay . And is that the end of the scene

6:40or does something happen after ? And

6:43then she walks away .

6:44Okay . So she approaches you , in summary

6:48, knocks you unconscious , and then

6:50walks away .

6:51Yes .

6:51Okay . Yes , those are thoughts that can

6:53cause suffering and generate symptoms .

6:55Yes , that's enough .

6:56Yes ,

6:57that is the movie you seem to be living

6:59in . Yes , it only exists in your head

7:01right now , because nothing is happening

7:03out here .

7:04You can ask her if she intends to do

7:05that .

7:07Do you intend to approach me , throw me

7:10to the ground , and hurt me , knock me

7:13unconscious ?

7:15Yes , and then something else happens

7:17and then walk away ?

7:18No , I do not intend to do that .

7:21Ask everything together again .

7:22Okay . Do you intend to approach me ,

7:25throw me to the ground , beat me up ?

7:28knock me unconscious , and then walk

7:30away .

7:32No , I don't want to do that .

7:47Just say the next thoughts , right ?

7:49Because obviously it's not sinking in

7:50with you .

7:53Um um are you lying to me , are you

7:58lying to me ?

8:00No , I am not .

8:09What about her appearance tells you

8:10that it's really the way you imagine it

8:12?

8:13Hm . Her look . And what is the look like

8:18? Look so it feels

8:22not what it feels like , what she looks

8:24like . Okay . The big eyes as if .

8:26No , no , we don't need " as if . " We only

8:28need a description of what you see . The

8:29pure things are

8:30the big eyes .

8:31Big eyes , anything else .

8:36Mhm . The mouth .

8:38The mouth .

8:39What about the mouth ? H

8:45the shape or what is the shape like ?

8:48What shape do you see there ? Shape

8:52um uh the corners of her mouth . The

8:56corners of her mouth .

8:57What about the corners of her mouth ?

8:59Well , the shape of the corners of her

9:00mouth .

9:01Yes , and what is the shape ? the Yes , so

9:11in the sha , so what the shape is .

9:13Yes , what is it then ?

9:14Mm . So , if I say now , it's not

9:16intimidating ,

9:17right ? What do you see ? What do you see

9:19exactly ? What do they look like ?

9:21As if she were about to start screaming

9:23. As if . No , not " as if . " It is about

9:26the pure sensory impressions . So , and

9:28there we see right now that it is

9:30apparently already difficult for you .

9:32to say anything at all about what you

9:34see there , right ?

9:35Yes .

9:36Yes .

9:38Such wide eyes and what , how do the

9:40corners of the mouth look compared to

9:43other faces ? What exactly do you see ,

9:46the pure sensory impressions ? How can

9:49the corners of the mouth be ? There are

9:53only two possibilities . Either up , down

9:55, or neutral , or

9:57Oh , I see , okay . Exactly . Yes , the

9:59corners of the mouth are slightly

10:00turned down . The slightly turned down

10:02corners of the mouth .

10:03The slightly turned down corners of the

10:05mouth and the wide eyes .

10:06Yes ,

10:06anything else ?

10:12Maybe the fact that she's looking at

10:14you directly , right ?

10:15Yes , exactly that too . So , the fact

10:18that she's looking at me .

10:19Okay , anything else ? That she's

10:22standing there so still .

10:23Okay . Body is standing motionless .

10:26Yes , body is motionless . Yes . And no ,

10:28good .

10:29That's it .

10:30So the wide eyes , that she's looking

10:31directly at you , the slightly

10:32downturned corners of the mouth , and

10:34that she's standing there motionless .

10:36That allegedly proves to you that it is

10:38indeed the way you imagine it to be .

10:40Yes ,

10:41then you ask her if that's all ; the

10:43point is to query the story in your

10:46head , what was wired in as a child , to

10:48see if it's true . So , you could ask ,

10:51does your motionless posture , your

10:53slightly downturned corners of the

10:54mouth , your wide eyes , the fact that

10:57you're looking at me , does that mean

10:59that you are about to , and so on and so

11:01forth .

11:01Mhm . Okay . Does it mean that when you

11:07stand there , stand there so still , look

11:10at me with your wide eyes , stand before

11:13me with your slightly angled-down mouth

11:16, does it mean that you'll attack me ,

11:22knock me to the ground , yell at me and

11:24knock me unconscious and then leave ?

11:27No.

11:35Yes , I feel relaxation .

11:38Mhm .

11:43Yes , I perceived it acoustically .

11:49Um ,

11:50at least , right ?

11:51Yes ,

11:51there are people for whom the hearing

11:53shuts down . They don't even hear it

11:54acoustically , right ? It can go that far

11:56.

11:56Mhm .

11:57Yes . If it were actually the way you

12:00imagine it .

12:02Mhm .

12:02Why would she do that ? She would have

12:04to be , you know , she would be

12:06practically a criminal , right , a

12:07violent offender . Why would she do that

12:10?

12:13What is going on with her ? Like , what

12:14is going on inside her ? What would her

12:17life circumstances be in your

12:18imagination ? I just had the thought um ,

12:23that she

12:24No , no , it's about her now .

12:25Oh , okay .

12:27Look , if someone is a criminal , right ,

12:29there must be a reason for it . I mean ,

12:31nobody just becomes a violent criminal

12:33out of nowhere . There has to be a

12:34reason .

12:35Yeah ,

12:36so , do you have any idea why , what is

12:38her situation that leads her to become

12:41a violent offender , in your mind ? Um ,

12:45she is needy for needy and

12:54so is someone who is needy , do they , do

12:57they become a violent offender ?

13:00Well , someone who strongly

13:02someone who wants closeness and

13:05strongly h good question ,

13:09right ? It’s about taking apart all

13:11that stuff that’s twisted in your

13:12head bit by bit , because you're

13:14starting to notice that something is

13:15off .

13:16Yes ,

13:17if someone is needy , I can say , " Hey , I

13:19need an ice cream or I feel sad . " How

13:22do you connect that , that neediness

13:24leads to violence ?

13:26Mhm .

13:27So , there are more thoughts about her ,

13:29right ?

13:29Yes . Yes . Yes .

13:32Mhm . The thought occurred to me , um ,

13:36that she wants to make me dependent ,

13:38yes , that she that she uh yeah , I'll

13:45just say it like this , yeah , even to ,

13:47it sounds like she wants to make me a

13:49slave .

13:51Yes , okay . But that still doesn't quite

13:53explain the act of violence . I mean ,

13:56you know ,

13:56okay ,

13:57how , how do you get to violence ? I mean

14:00, you know , if someone wants a slave ,

14:01it doesn't necessarily mean they'll

14:03become a violent offender .

14:05Mhm .

14:08Well , there’s intimidation happening

14:09beforehand , right ? Like in the form of

14:12intimidation .

14:14How do you explain that you are facing

14:16a violent offender ?

14:18Mm .

14:18We are talking about an act of violence

14:20. When you get knocked unconscious ,

14:22we're talking about a crime .

14:23Yes . Yes . Yes .

14:25Mhm . That must have a reason . So , just

14:28out of neediness or a desire for power .

14:31That alone doesn't make someone a

14:33criminal .

14:34Mhm . Ah yeah , I get it , um , that I then

14:41provide for her , that I am , so to speak

14:44, brought into dependency so that I

14:48then provide for her and , uh , almost

14:51serve her . Yeah , so something like that

14:54Yes , but that is still not an

14:56explanation . Now you are talking about

14:58how — see , you just don't want to go

14:59there . Mm .

15:01Right , you're saying we have a violent

15:03offender here , right ? And you just

15:04don't want to tell me , um , how you

15:06explain to yourself why she is that way

15:08, right ?

15:10You just don't want to .

15:11Okay .

15:16If someone knocks another person

15:18unconscious ,

15:18mm ,

15:19Then there must be a reason for it . Or

15:21do you see people everywhere knocking

15:22others unconscious ?

15:23No. No.

15:24Yes . So there must be a reason for it .

15:27Yes .

15:29Hm . That's the reason , right ? You can't

15:38figure it out right now because you're

15:39suppressing all of that yourself ,

15:41aren't you ? That's completely obvious .

15:43Mhm . Yes .

15:46If someone commits an act of violence ,

15:49they must be full of rage , hate , and

15:51aggression ,

15:53do you understand ? And that is exactly

15:55what you are clearly suppressing and

15:57denying within yourself . So you can't

16:00even imagine why someone would become

16:02violent , right ? That , you know , you

16:05couldn't figure that out on your own .

16:06You can't explain it to yourself at all

16:08because you block it all out . For you ,

16:10it doesn't exist , right ? For you , there

16:12is no aggression or rage , except as a

16:15projection and then as a result . Yes .

16:24If someone beats another person half to

16:26death , they must feel total hatred for

16:27them , otherwise they wouldn't do it .

16:31Now , that's hard for you to grasp . Hard

16:34to grasp , because you act as if you

16:35don't have that yourself . It's your own

16:37rage that you're projecting into it .

16:49Does that make sense to you ? Take your

17:02time . No problem .

17:04We have all the time in the world .

17:16Makes sense . Yes , absolutely . No ,

17:24that's attachment protection , so to

17:25speak , right ? You deny it within

17:27yourself in order to survive , right ?

17:30And then you have to project it , and

17:32then you think others are violent ,

17:33right ?

17:39Yes .

17:40Do you need a tissue ? Should I get a

17:42tissue ? Does anyone here have a tissue ?

17:46I don't have one either right now . We

17:47need to . Yes ,

17:49here comes one .

17:51Thank you . Yes , okay . Good . Do you have

18:33a problem with what happened here ?

18:35No.

18:36Mhm . So , it doesn't bother you in the

18:39sense that you feel you need to run

18:40away or get aggressive . No , I feel

18:43moved .

18:44Mm . Okay . From your perspective , what

18:51threat does he pose ?

18:56Because you look , um , very , you know ,

18:58you don't look relaxed ; you look like

18:59someone who is shooting someone down

19:01with their eyes , right ?

19:03Or wanting to keep them under control

19:04at all costs . That's why I'm asking

19:06what you imagine the threat from him is

19:07. M that he will cling to me .

19:14What do you mean by that specifically ?

19:17That I won't be able to maintain my

19:18boundaries .

19:19Those are all general statements .

19:20Nobody knows what you mean by that .

19:22What is the actual physical threat from

19:24him on an action level ? What do you

19:25imagine he's doing right now ?

19:28He's manipulating me .

19:30How exactly ?

19:36And why ? Well , he says that he needs me

19:57and I react to it , even though I

19:59hardly understand anymore . Can you

20:00speak a little louder , please ?

20:02He says that he needs me .

20:05And what is the manipulation now ? That

20:12I can't set boundaries is within me .

20:17But you not being able to set

20:18boundaries has nothing to do with

20:20manipulation . Do you know what

20:24manipulation is ?

20:27Yes , that one ...

20:28when he expresses a need , it's not

20:30manipulation .

20:30Mhm .

20:32That is him communicating .

20:33Mhm . Manipulation is when I'm asked to

20:40do something I might not actually want

20:43to do .

20:46That's not manipulation either , is it ?

20:48You don't really know what manipulation

20:50is ,

20:51do you ? You think a situation where you

20:55can't set boundaries is manipulation .

20:59That's not manipulation ; what you're

21:00describing is an attack , right ? It's an

21:03attack scenario where you feel you

21:04can't set boundaries . Manipulation is

21:06something completely different .

21:07Mhm .

21:12Manipulation is when he plays something

21:14for you that isn't the truth , so that

21:16you do something he wants .

21:19That is manipulation . Okay .

21:29Mhm .

21:34So , what exactly is threatening you

21:35from him right now ?

21:37Um , I would say there's no threat from

21:39him at the moment .

21:40Yes . Yes , of course , there's also an

21:43adult part that knows nothing is

21:45happening here right now , but it's

21:47about the part that was never voiced

21:50and that subconsciously imagines that

21:52something is happening . It was just

21:55voiced , though , right ?

21:57But we don't have to do this . I can

21:59feel your whole ... I can feel your anger

22:01now , your total hatred that you've

22:03suppressed , it's coming at me like a

22:04wave , and we don't have to do this .

22:07It's not your session . You can just

22:09consider if you still want to work on

22:11something , otherwise we'll continue

22:12here , okay ? I mean , I sense massive

22:14hatred . Massive , really intense . Yes .

22:18And that has to do with setting

22:20boundaries , right ? Which didn't work

22:22back then .

22:24Now you're staring him down , like a

22:26predator . But the question is , why ?

22:29What are you doing right now ? Is he

22:42coming towards you now ?

22:43No. And why do you need to stare him

22:45down then ? I mean , you can do it if you

22:46want , but I'm just asking .

22:47Why do you have to tie him up and stare

22:49him down when he's just standing there

22:50doing nothing ? That would be the

22:52question .

22:53That belongs to the setting here for me

22:54. Making contact . Maybe it's my way of

22:57making contact .

22:57That's not contact , is it ? That is a

22:59mixture of being stunned and mental

23:02energetic control .

23:03Mhm . Because I'm projecting that the

23:06other person poses a danger to me .

23:09What's happening in the nervous system

23:10isn't contact , is it ? That is a state

23:12of high-level threat .

23:14Mhm .

23:15Or do you feel relaxed now in this

23:17exchange with an open heart and so on ?

23:18Maybe I'm wrong . Yes .

23:19No. No , that's right .

23:21So , hence my question , why go into

23:23high-level combat mode when he's

23:25standing here and not doing anything at

23:27the moment ? What do you gain from that ?

23:37What do you imagine happens if you look

23:39away for a second ? What does he do if

23:41you look away for a moment ?

23:45Nothing . But I lose control .

23:47Yes , exactly . Exactly ,

23:48right ? If you lose control , what is he

23:50allegedly going to do then ?

23:53Probably nothing .

23:54Well , now I'm starting to feel like I'm

23:56being teased , right ? No , now you're

23:58playing the game with me , right ?

23:59Instead of saying directly , Gopal , I'm

24:01furious , leave me alone , right ? Now the

24:03games begin , right ? Now you are

24:05manipulating me . That's all no problem .

24:09You can try to put me off now . That

24:10doesn't bother me at all . Here , the

24:12offer is really to tell the truth and

24:14look at what is really going on here ,

24:16right ? And if you say you have to keep

24:18control , well , we only need to keep

24:20control if something is threatening us ;

24:21otherwise , there's no reason to keep

24:23control .

24:23I think I feel anger and hate .

24:26Aha . So. Well , what do you imagine ?

24:27What happens when you look away ? What

24:29does he do then , supposedly ?

24:33Attack .

24:34What exactly ? He comes towards me and

24:41knocks me over , pushes me painfully to

24:43the ground .

24:45I can barely understand you . Can you

24:47speak loud and clear , because otherwise

24:48I won't catch what you want to say . He

24:50comes towards me , pushes me painfully

24:52over , and I'm lying on the ground .

24:54Okay . And does anything happen then , or

24:57is that the end of the story ?

24:59Yes , then he walks away .

25:02Okay , then why don't you ask him if he

25:06plans to do that , then you'll find out .

25:08Mm . Do you plan to come toward me , push

25:12me over painfully so that I'm alone on

25:14the ground , and then turn away and walk

25:17off ? No , I have absolutely no such

25:19intention . There’s no way to reach

25:31you , is there ? You are so obsessed with

25:34this idea that this overwhelming force

25:37is about to strike . You’re so caught

25:39up in that , and these days it consists

25:41only of thoughts about your

25:42surroundings , about other people , right

25:43? And that — well , I can’t take that

25:46away from you , and I don’t even want

25:47to . The only thing I can do in this

25:50work here is help you figure out what

25:53this idea is really about and clarify

25:55it with your surroundings . Whether

25:58there’s a real threat , what you do

26:01with that information — I have no , uh ,

26:03I have no influence over that , and

26:05that’s up to you , isn’t it ? You can

26:08push everyone away for the rest of your

26:10life , you know . Every single person ,

26:12you can do that . That’s fine by me .

26:16Yes , no problem there either . You can

26:18reject everything that happens here . Um

26:20, that is perfectly fine . It just has

26:23consequences , though , different ones .

26:28If he intended to do that , why would he

26:30do it in your imagination ? That’s

26:45just from the world of your thoughts .

26:47We are only in your world of thoughts .

26:48Nowhere else . You are dreaming . You are

26:51, you are in a deep trance of constant

26:53mortal danger .

26:54Mhm . I suspect

26:57yes

26:58anger and hatred ,

27:00that he is full of anger and hatred

27:01toward you .

27:02Why ? Unresolved aggression .

27:09So he , he is full of rage and hatred

27:11due to past experiences . And what is

27:13the trigger ? Like , how do you

27:14supposedly make him activate that ?

27:21By leaving ? Yes , but when you leave ,

27:25you are — you mean that when you become

27:27independent from him , so to speak ,

27:29okay ,

27:31then ask him : " When I start to be

27:33independent , when I start to live , does

27:35that put you into such a frenzy that

27:38you attack me ? " You could ask that , for

27:40example . " When I start to live

27:44independently , does that put you into

27:47such a frenzy that you — " I can't ...

27:52So , we’ll do this again completely ,

27:54and please ask as an adult woman ,

27:56without holding back the flow of energy

27:58, clearly and distinctly , what you want

28:00to find out , because if anything

28:02happens here , I will intervene . This

28:05place is safe , but if you suppress it

28:06and distort it and put the brakes on ,

28:08then it just doesn’t really work . I

28:10need the approach again , because it

28:12slipped away again .

28:13No problem . So , your idea is , that all

28:19people and he are full of rage and hate

28:22and will attack you . And you explain it

28:25to yourself in your head that if you

28:27turn away , if you start to exist , if

28:29you develop independence , if you stop

28:31being symbiotically fused with him and

28:33start being independent , creating

28:35distance , that he will then lose it and

28:38attack you .

28:39Mhm . So you could ask , if I move toward

28:43independence , if I have a life of my

28:45own independent of you , will you get so

28:48angry that you attack me ?

28:50Mhm .

28:54If I move toward independence , if I

28:57live my own life , will you angrily

29:00attack me ?

29:02No , I would actually be happy about it .

29:04Mhm . That means you don't even need her

29:08to survive .

29:08No , I don't need to .

29:09Aha . Do you have a life of your own ?

29:11Own bank account , own friends , own job ,

29:13maybe even your own apartment ?

29:14I have my own account , my own money , my

29:17own family , everything .

29:20Do you feel as lost inside as a small ,

29:22helpless child , that you have to latch

29:23onto her like a lifebuoy ?

29:25No , I don't intend to .

29:27I don't have to , either .

29:28You don't have to at all .

29:29Nope .

29:30Interesting . That means her

29:37independence doesn't trigger any rage

29:40in you at all .

29:41No , absolutely not .

29:42Mhm . If she says , I feel rage and hate ,

29:45is that a problem then ?

29:46That's perfectly fine with me . That's

29:48actually , that even calmed me down . So ,

29:51there was

29:53an inner calmness

29:54Mhm .

29:55that entered my body . Okay , if you want

30:01, you can , because I see that it's not

30:03fully sinking in , a little bit , but not

30:04completely , right ? You live in your —

30:06do you notice how you live in your

30:07trance of thoughts . Completely in a

30:09trance , it's like being under

30:11anesthesia , right ? What's happening out

30:13here , it — it's not really reaching you

30:14, is it ?

30:16So , you can try it out , right ? We'll

30:20just do a shift in perspective , uh , and

30:22you take a look , because via the

30:24information level it's hard to reach

30:26your system , because it's so under fear

30:28and , uh , yes , in that state , that you

30:30... for example , you could step out of

30:32the circle and go over to the

30:34windowsill there , to the first curtain ,

30:36so that you physically create distance

30:38and simply see for yourself as an

30:40experiment , checking if he then loses

30:42it and attacks you , because that is

30:44what you believe .

30:46Mhm . Right , you could do that .

30:48I would do that now .

30:54All right , and now you check if what

30:55you imagine is happening .

31:00It's not happening .

31:01Mhm . How is it there ? Does anything

31:03change ?

31:05Sure . Good .

31:07Is it better than there , or different ,

31:09or the same ?

31:12Maybe a little bit better .

31:13Okay .

31:14Mhm . How is it for you ? Better , easier ,

31:18light . It’s , um , more alienating ;

31:23yeah , the closeness was better for me

31:26than this distance now . Yes .

31:29However , that has nothing to do with

31:31closeness on a relational level ,

31:33because you haven't lost contact with

31:35her . M , yeah . No , then it stayed the

31:38same , on that level . Yes .

31:39Or can you no longer hear her ?

31:41No , no , I can hear her . Good . So the

31:44contact isn't broken at all ?

31:45No , it's not broken . No.

31:46Mhm . What does that look like now ?

31:50Um , when you realize that you are still

31:52in contact with her , can exchange ideas

31:54, regardless of the physical distance .

31:57Yes , if it’s good for her , then , um ,

31:59it’s completely fine with me that she

32:02...

32:02And if it's not good for her , what

32:04happens then ?

32:04Oh , I see . Yes . Uh . Yes , then I would

32:10perhaps , yeah , I would have a problem

32:11with that . Yes . Ah .

32:13You have to explain that to me , because

32:14those are all just thoughts , right ? Why

32:15would you have a problem as a grown man

32:18if it’s not good for her ?

32:20Yes , because , um , the projection in the

32:23sense that I think it’s my fault . Yes

32:25.

32:26Yes . And go on .

32:28Yes . Effect . Yes . What happens then ?

32:30Even if it were your fault , what would

32:32she do then ? Yes , leave me . Yes .

32:39So your idea is : if she creates

32:41distance , then she feels bad , and

32:42it’s supposedly your fault , and

32:44that’s why she breaks up .

32:46Yes , that’s ...

32:48That is , of course , a wild notion ,

32:50right ? Because you are an adult , she is

32:53an adult ,

32:55no one needs anyone , she can do what

32:57she wants . And then you'd have to

32:59explain to me again why it’s your

33:01fault that she feels bad when she moves

33:03away .

33:13That is your own perception .

33:14Yes , yes , yes , yes . This ... Um ... Yes ,

33:22something like being left alone comes

33:24up .

33:26That means you are leaving her alone if

33:27she moves away ?

33:29No , she is leaving me . She is leav —

33:31And then I am alone .

33:33Yes .

33:34And why does she feel bad then , and you

33:35are to blame ?

33:37Well , that's another good question . Yes

33:38,

33:39you're feeling bad , aren't you ? Yes ,

33:47and why exactly do you feel bad when

33:49she leaves ? Why , actually ?

33:52Yes , things are getting better . That's

33:57tricky . Yes ,

33:59you know , you just have to look at what

34:01you're imagining . You said ,

34:04she leaves and you feel bad . Then she

34:06feels bad because it's your fault and

34:08she leaves . You know , that's totally

34:10complicated and doesn't make any sense

34:12at first .

34:13But in your head , it's a coherent story

34:16.

34:16Yes . Yes , exactly .

34:17One that makes sense in any case .

34:19Yes . Yes . Yes . For the , for the first

34:21year .

34:22Uh , but it is , I mean , we need the

34:24whole story , otherwise we won't

34:26understand how it makes sense , because

34:28right now it doesn't . Yes .

34:30Yes . Then it could be that I'm still

34:35thinking I'm in some kind of dependency

34:39, some emotional dependency . Yes ,

34:44could be , but what I still don't

34:46understand is why

34:49you are to blame if she leaves and then

34:51she feels bad .

34:51Oh God ,

34:52you said that yourself .

34:53Yes , yes , yes , yes . Why are you to

34:59blame if she leaves and then she feels

35:00bad ?

35:04Yes ,

35:06because you might think she needs you .

35:12Yes , I had the thought because I think

35:15I did something wrong , that I somehow

35:18hurt her in some way . So , that means

35:22your story is : when you start to exist

35:24and break out of the symbiosis , then

35:26she leaves because she needs a

35:28symbiosis . Then she feels bad and you

35:31are supposedly to blame because you

35:32moved out of the symbiosis , and as a

35:34result , she leaves and breaks up and

35:36you are alone and die .

35:37Well , that's the story , that's the

35:39story you're living in .

35:40Exactly . Yes ,

35:42that's what you experienced as a child .

35:44No. I feel sadness . H ,

35:53so it's important first that we have

35:54this story on the table , right ?

35:56Yes . Yes .

35:57And that you check if what I've

35:59summarized is correct .

36:00Yes . Yes . That , that makes sense .

36:07So , you imagine that she needs a

36:10symbiosis . At some point , you don't

36:12want that anymore . Yes . Yes ,

36:15then you will move away . But that

36:17doesn't work , because you think that if

36:19you move away , she will feel bad , and

36:21since she can't handle that , her only

36:23emergency solution is to separate from

36:25you , and as a child , you would then be

36:27dead on the attachment level . And then ,

36:30of course , you have a huge mess and

36:31confusion , where there is no solution .

36:33Absolutely . True .

36:35Yes , as a child , there was no solution

36:36either . Yes .

36:40How is that for you when you hear it

36:42like that ? Does anything happen there ?

36:45There's a bit of fog in between ,

36:47mentally speaking . Mm .

36:49And what is the threat when you hear

36:51this , allegedly ? Because fog means

36:52self-numbing .

36:53Well , I follow it and I try to trace it

36:56, but it doesn't really land deeply

36:59with me .

37:01Mhm . It's also a bit complicated .

37:03Yes . But at the core , if you break it

37:07down to the core , it simply means that

37:10if you start to live , then you are dead

37:12. That is the core . If I live , I'm dead

37:16, right ? Because if I move towards

37:17independence , then however complicated

37:18it is , in the end , there's a break in

37:20attachment , and then you are dead .

37:21Yes . So that means , in your brain , it's

37:24structured : either I don't live , and

37:26through that I get a relationship or

37:28something like a relationship , or I

37:30break away to live , but then I die too ,

37:32because then I have no attachment .

37:34Yes ,

37:36that is the conflict .

37:37Yes ,

37:38that , yes , I can fully understand that .

37:42So the only question you would need to

37:44ask is , right ? Her , if I — or even

37:48simpler — do you need a symbiotic

37:50merger with me , and if I step out of it

37:52, um , do you collapse or do you

37:53separate , right ? Do you need a

37:57symbiotic relationship with me ? And if

38:00I step out of that , then — excuse me —

38:03yeah , then whatever , then you walk away

38:05or

38:05then you walk away ,

38:06you feel bad , right ?

38:07Or or do you feel bad ? Exactly .

38:09No , I don't need that .

38:11Isn't it actually more pleasant for you

38:12if there is more distance , because you

38:14feel safer then ? So it's actually

38:16exactly 180 degrees , right ? For you ,

38:18it's easier at first if he does his own

38:20thing , right ? And becomes independent .

38:22Mhm .

38:23Exactly .

38:24Mhm .

38:25That means you would also — for you , it

38:26would be easier to be in contact with

38:28him if he does his own thing and

38:29doesn't want anything from you at all ,

38:31right ?

38:31Yes .

38:32Yes .

38:33Interesting , right ?

38:34Yes . To hear it like that again , in any

38:37case .

38:38Yes . And at its core , it simply means

38:40your idea is , when I say that I feel

38:43anger and hate . Yes , do you then walk

38:46away ? That is the only question , bottom

38:50line .

38:53When I say that I feel anger and hate ,

38:55do you then walk away ?

38:56No.

39:04Yes . Okay . Okay . That is possible .

39:15Mhm .

39:16Mhm . Yes . So , essentially , it's just

39:23about realizing that today you can do

39:25your own thing . Yes , you don't have to

39:27orient yourself toward others . You can

39:29express anger and hate . You can set

39:31boundaries . You can say what you want

39:33and don't want . And today , that doesn't

39:35necessarily lead to a break in

39:37connection , but on the contrary , it

39:39leads to contact with the world . Yes .

39:42Yes .

39:43And your attempt to connect through

39:45symbiosis and self-erasure will fail in

39:47any case , because that's impossible —

39:49because then you are gone .

39:50Yes .

39:52And that is something no adult wants .

39:54They don't want a symbiotic counterpart

39:57, right ? You know , that is the level of

39:59a mother and infant . They are one .

40:01Yes .

40:02We can't do that as adults .

40:05Mhm .

40:06And that needs to — that needs to get

40:08into your brain somehow , that you can

40:10set boundaries today and that that is

40:11actually the contact .

40:13Your setting of boundaries is the

40:15contact . When you say , no , that doesn't

40:17work for me . That is how you make

40:19contact , how you solve your problem .

40:21Yes .

40:22And that has to do with anger and

40:24aggression .

40:24Yes . And with the fact that you allow

40:29yourself to exist . Exactly .

40:34Yes .

40:35Exactly . Yes .

40:39So , you could even try this out

40:41physically now . Unfortunately , we don't

40:43have enough space , but if you can , you

40:44can do it somewhere later . For example ,

40:46as an exercise , when you are in a room ,

40:49just walk out and say , I have to go ,

40:51right ? Yes .

40:52And then you see if the world ends . Yes

40:54. Important , I would really do it . Keep

40:57learning it : setting boundaries , saying

40:59no , I want something else , that doesn't

41:00work for me ; when you're sitting in a

41:02train compartment , just get up and

41:03change compartments .

41:05Always this moving away , feel free to

41:07act it out , yes , and see if the whole

41:08world collapses .

41:10Yes , yes , yes . Okay ,

41:15and then later see , where are there

41:17conflicts , where is there friction ,

41:19right ?

41:20For example , here , what kind of

41:21conflict could you start with me right

41:22now ? What do you not agree with ?

41:26No , everything is great .

41:27That's just not true . Not everything is

41:29great . Not everything is ever great .

41:30That's your illusion . You say

41:32everything is great to survive .

41:35Not everything is ever great .

41:39That's not true .

41:40Mhm .

41:42Because , you know , I could take

41:43advantage of you to no end right now . I

41:45could say , for example , fine , then pay

41:47me double , I'll send you another

41:48invoice . € 5,000 for the hour , is

41:51everything still great then ?

41:55Nah , then it wouldn't be anymore .

41:57Then it wouldn't be anymore . But it’s

41:58already not everything , I understand or

42:01think I understand .

42:03Where could one start to pick a fight

42:05with me ? Where does it stick for you ?

42:09What isn't " all great " for you here

42:10right now ? Hm . What isn't great for me

42:22here ? For me here , that is the question

42:25. Yes , for example , do you think it's

42:29great that you have to pay money so

42:30that someone helps you in your

42:31desperate need ? Do you think that's

42:33great ?

42:35No.

42:36So , not everything is great then .

42:37Mm . Yes ,

42:38it's about taking a look , because with

42:40that , you erase yourself , right ?

42:42Yes .

42:43Everything is great , and I don't exist .

42:45That's clear , it's the same thing .

42:46Mhm . With that , you deny yourself .

42:49Yes ,

42:49you're basically saying , I don't exist .

42:50You can do whatever you want with me .

42:53And it's safe here , so you can

42:55carefully take a look here , if you want

42:57, at what isn't great for you .

43:00Mhm .

43:01Right here with me .

43:02Yes ,

43:03well ,

43:04well , not great for me here is my

43:08problems or my my concern .

43:11You are the problem . That's just

43:13wonderful . Then go ahead and take a

43:14hammer and bash your skull in every day

43:16. Mhm .

43:16How would that be ?

43:18Mm

43:19when something isn't great , it refers

43:21to the environment .

43:22Yes . Well ,

43:24and those are things that are

43:25absolutely incomprehensible to you . Yes

43:27.

43:27Yes . Yes .

43:28When you suffer ,

43:30Mhm .

43:31then it's the environment's fault , not

43:33yours . The evil , dangerous thing is on

43:36the outside . If you're being eaten by a

43:37lion , it's on the outside . Yes , that's

43:44crazy now . I heard you . It never fully

43:48got through 100 % .

43:50That's why I asked how you can start a

43:51conflict with me , and now you've

43:53started a conflict with yourself ,

43:55haven't you ? So it's about looking at

43:57what you don't agree with here , not

43:59with whom , what you don't agree with

44:01yourself about .

44:03Mm .

44:03You have a conflict with your

44:04environment , but not with yourself ,

44:06understand ? The problems are external ,

44:08they have nothing to do with you .

44:10Mm . If someone scratches your car , do

44:16you start self-reflecting on what your

44:18inner problem is ?

44:19Yes , something like that . Exactly ,

44:20that you aren't centered enough , that

44:22you aren't mindful enough , right ? And

44:25then the next level would be , uh , them

44:27beating you up , until you're in the ER

44:30and lying there bleeding on the

44:32stretcher , and you're still asking what

44:34isn't spiritual enough here , or how

44:37does that work ?

44:40Actually ? Uh , those thoughts creep in .

44:43Yes .

44:43Yes . You're destroying yourself with

44:45that , right ?

44:46So. And that is self-destruction , right

44:48? And here it is safe , here you have

44:50the chance to really look at what the

44:52truth is , namely with things you are in

44:54conflict with , here with things , with

44:59which you are not in agreement ,

45:02for example , also in regards to her .

45:04Mhm .

45:06But you don't have to . I'm just making

45:07suggestions . You can also say , no ,

45:08that's enough . I am in agreement with

45:10everything . You can do whatever you

45:12want with me . That's also okay with me .

45:14No , no , I , uh , I'm trying , trying in

45:21regards to her , what my problem is . Now

45:24, the question again is ,

45:26you've already forgotten everything

45:27again . Everything is one and good .

45:29Everything is super , there is no

45:30problem . I don't exist , right ? But the

45:33problem is that I can then do whatever

45:35I want with you . I can exploit you ,

45:37manipulate you , however I want . That's

45:40the problem with that . Yes , but you can

45:41maintain the feeling that everything is

45:44fine . I am connected , everything is

45:46okay . I might be destroyed , but I have

45:48a sort of pseudo-connection .

45:52Mhm . Well , it sounds familiar , you know

46:01? There are people who are programmed

46:02the exact opposite way ; they start

46:04conflicts everywhere . The first thing

46:05they see is what isn't right here . Yes ,

46:08they start complaining that I'm not

46:09friendly enough , that I'm rude , too

46:11direct , too loud , uh , and , right , they

46:13start complaining here about the setup

46:14and about the money , right ? They are

46:17programmed exactly the opposite .

46:20Yes . Well ,

46:22we don't have to do that . I'll do that ,

46:23we still have a few minutes . You have

46:25the opportunity to take a look at where

46:27there are conflicts and , if you want ,

46:29work up the courage to bring them up .

46:31Um , but as I said , you don't have to .

46:33Mhm . Hm , I understand , I understand

46:52what you mean . Well , I actually notice

46:56that I just don't reach that , that ,

46:59that point .

47:00That's wonderful . Then everything stays

47:01as it is . You suffer and your life is

47:03done for . Mm . Perfect . Are we finished ?

47:11And I have my money .

47:13Mm .

47:20Yes . What I don't like is that I get

47:22stared at like this .

47:24Aha . Okay . That's something . That's

47:27something , right ? That refers to the

47:28outside now .

47:29Mm .

47:30You don't like being stared at like

47:32that , right ? So , it's something new for

47:35you to actually say that . And now you

47:37can see if everything falls apart ,

47:39everyone freaks out and runs away , or

47:41comes at you . Just observe ,

47:44if that happens .

47:48No ,

47:49no ,

47:50no .

47:51Interesting , isn't it ?

47:52Mhm . Right , now you're getting into the

48:05game with something that's true , right ?

48:07Now we're basically , for the first time

48:08, addressing something that concerns

48:10you , namely that this is a problem for

48:11you , that you don't like it , that it

48:12doesn't do you any good , yes ,

48:14right ? Before you were still saying

48:16everything was great .

48:16Yes ,

48:17but everything is not great , as we now

48:19know .

48:19Mhm .

48:22Is there anything else ? Mm . Yes , the

48:34lack of fresh air in here .

48:36Mhm .

48:37It's really still

48:39yes ,

48:40slightly unpleasant .

48:41Mhm .

48:42Yes .

48:43Yes .

48:44Another point .

48:45Mhm . Good . Those are now — just now we

48:48were on the relationship level , now we

48:49are dealing with , so to speak , external

48:51circumstances , which is always a bit

48:52further away from the relationship

48:54level , and it would be closer if you

48:55were to look at , for example , what

48:57bothers you about me . Mm .

49:01And the first thing that's about is , in

49:02principle , the distance . Yes , so um

49:05maybe I am too close or too far away .

49:08So , that would be , on

49:10this level , the first thing it's about .

49:12Yes . Yes , I understand . I understand .

49:15Can I — was that it ? Yes . Or I try to

49:18really feel , like , how that is .

49:25You don't have a feeling for it . So you

49:32don't have a feeling as to whether

49:33that's too close or too far away , or ?

49:35No , that — I , I would just try it . Yes ,

49:38hold on . Wait a minute , wait a minute .

49:39I haven't learned anything about you at

49:41all yet . What is it you want to try now

49:43? uh just to establish some distance ,

49:45just to see , you know , whether you're

49:48too close or too far . I can't tell

49:51right now from the current situation .

49:54Okay , it's quite simple . I'm just going

49:55to come closer now , okay ? Is it still

49:57far ,

49:58right ? Definitely too close .

49:59Definitely too close . What could you

50:01say to that ?

50:02Please move back a little bit .

50:03Okay . How far ?

50:04Yeah , a little bit more . Like this . Yes

50:08. Like this . Like this . Good . How does

50:10that feel ? Yeah , much better ,

50:12right ?

50:13Comfortable .

50:13That , that works for today . That's just

50:15normal interaction between adults .

50:17Something is happening here that isn't

50:18good . I communicate it and the other

50:20person reacts to it . I see . Is the body

50:25breathing through it ?

50:30Yes , I understand .

50:34And uh for me , that's not burdensome at

50:36all , but rather something pleasant ,

50:37because I'm learning something about

50:38you , right ?

50:38Yes . Mhm . Shall we try it again ?

50:48No , I think that's fine .

50:49Aha ,

50:50thank you .

50:51Okay , so that means uh my suggestion to

50:54try it again , you say ? No , that's

50:57enough . I don't want to try that again .

50:59Great .

51:00Mm .

51:01How is that ?

51:02Feels good .

51:04Very good .

51:05Yes .

51:06Mhm . Yes . Is there even a problem

51:08anymore now ? No , I think it feels , now ,

51:11right at this moment everything is

51:13great , isn't it ? Yes , now

51:20so I feel relieved . Yes .

51:22Yes .

51:23And I would like to sit back down . Yes .

51:28Or just breathe some fresh air again .

51:30Good . Should we wrap up the session now

51:32?

51:32I think so .

51:34Wonderful . Is that okay for you too ?

51:36Yes ,

51:36good . Thank you very much . Thank you ,

51:38thank you . Okay . Yes , thank you all for

51:52being here , for your support ,

51:54especially those of you who were

51:55sitting on the outside . Here in the

51:58middle , it essentially always feels

51:59like a matter of life and death ,

52:01doesn't it ? From the outside , it might

52:03look funny sometimes , or bizarre , or

52:05completely incomprehensible . But for

52:08the nervous system , it is a matter of

52:09life and death here . That is the

52:11question the nervous system wants to

52:13answer for itself . Constantly , right ?

52:15Am I still in mortal danger ? And we

52:17just can't manage that on our own

52:19because we lack context . And that is

52:22exactly what is possible here . We

52:25didn't do years of therapy , but we

52:27brought two systems more or less into

52:29contact in this short time , and then

52:32something happens that can no longer be

52:35undone . Yes , maybe one more thing in

52:39closing , um , just to clarify . The level

52:44of connection we establish , that we

52:46manage to create , whether through

52:47therapy or not , we don't lose that

52:49again . Yes , that doesn't mean the

52:52symptoms or the suffering are

52:54completely gone , but the nervous system

52:56has experienced that more connection is

52:58possible than it has ever known since

53:00birth . And this is like a ray of light

53:04shining in . The subconscious will

53:07always orient itself toward that . Even

53:10if our head says later , " Oh , that was

53:12just a session anyway , " and if the head

53:13tries to ruin it all again — and it

53:15will , right ? Or it will at least try to

53:17, but it still registered in the

53:19subconscious . The subconscious knows

53:21that this much connection is possible .

53:24And if this much connection is possible

53:26, then my story that no connection is

53:28possible cannot be true . That means

53:31with every tiny step , yes , this story

53:34in the head is stripped of its power

53:36more and more , until we have replaced

53:39the story with connection to the world .

53:43Yes , that is what remains at the end .

53:46It may be that it still haunts us , yes ,

53:48that " they are leaving me " or " they are

53:50attacking me , " but there is no longer

53:52any identification with it . We simply

53:54don't believe it anymore because we are

53:56in direct interaction . And when we are

53:59not in that interaction , this story

54:01fills the void , and eventually the

54:04story stops , too . Yes , because it gets

54:07so little fuel , it stops blathering on

54:10with its four thoughts . The other

54:13person is attacking me , leaving me ,

54:14ignoring me , or manipulating me . At

54:16some point , you can't even stand to

54:17hear that blathering anymore , right ?

54:19Always the same story with every person

54:21. Always the same story . I am being

54:23abandoned , I am being abandoned , the

54:24other is leaving , they are attacking me

54:25. Always the same story . And we don't

54:27notice that it's always the same story

54:28with every person . Always , always the

54:30same . So. But when we are in connection

54:34, we experience : Ah , they need this

54:35much distance , they are like this , they

54:37are like that . It is very multifaceted ,

54:40complex , perhaps it resembles the whole

54:43, and so on . But it is never the way

54:46this machine makes it up , never , right ?

54:49And with that , the issue is resolved .

54:52Alright , so thank you very much . Get

54:55home safely .