Full transcript
0:01okay so um let's go to the first slide
0:04so what I'm going to talk about today is
0:05my book the five dysfunctions of a team
0:07now this book applies whether you're in
0:08a church or a school or a corporation or
0:11a department within that Corporation any
0:13kind of a sighting where you're working
0:14as a team okay and I've been very
0:16blessed that companies and sports teams
0:18and churches and hospitals have all been
0:20using this so we're going to talk about
0:22teams okay and um so and my books are
0:27fiction most of my books are but today
0:28I'm not going to tell you fiction
0:29stories that you'll find in my book I'm
0:30going to tell you real stories and so
0:32we're just going to go through this I
0:33don't have a ton of time and I have a
0:35lot of good material to cover so we're
0:36going to try to go fast I think it's
0:38good I hope it's good okay so let's talk
0:40about the five dysfunctions of a team
0:41the first dysfunction of a team is the
0:42absence of
0:44trust so I just told you that this stuff
0:46is simple you're hearing this if you're
0:47hearing it for the first time you're
0:49thinking no duh did this guy just say if
0:52you want to build a team you have to
0:53trust each other yeah it's so obvious
0:55isn't it and I realize that and it is
0:58but there's something about trust
1:00most people think about trust in a
1:03different way than I'm talking about it
1:04see most people think of trust as
1:06predictive trust which means you and I
1:07have known each other long enough now to
1:09where if I say something you'll know how
1:11to you'll be able to predict my behavior
1:13or if we're in a meeting or at a team
1:15and you do something I know what I can
1:16expect from you because we can predict
1:18one another's Behavior that's predictive
1:20trust and any group of people that's
1:23known each other for a long period of
1:24time can have predictive trust but
1:26that's not the kind of trust that makes
1:27a team great the kind of trust that
1:29makes a team great great is what I call
1:31vulnerability based
1:33trust vulnerability based trust that's
1:36the kind of trust that comes about when
1:37human beings on a team can and will
1:41genuinely say things to one another like
1:43I don't know the answer I need help I
1:46think I really messed this up you are
1:48much smarter than I am can you teach me
1:50how to be like you or I'm sorry what I
1:52said yesterday was totally out of line
1:54and I I apologize when human beings can
1:56be that emotionally Buck Naked if you
1:58will with each other
2:00not pretending to be something they not
2:02when they can be that vulnerable it
2:04changes the Dynamics on a team
2:06completely it is one of the most
2:08powerful things you can do on a team
2:09because people come and they're open and
2:11they're honest and it changes everything
2:13and one of the best ways we can
2:15understand this is to think about times
2:16we've been on teams that didn't have
2:19that let me tell you a story about one
2:21of those teams I once worked with a
2:22startup company in the San Francisco Bay
2:24area where I live and it was a startup
2:26technology company but it wasn't your
2:28typical garage startup it was a a
2:31startup on steroids if you will I mean
2:33they had a ton of money in the bank
2:34right out of the gate they had a great
2:36product they had handpicked all these
2:38world-class Executives from around the
2:40country from sap and Oracle and
2:42PeopleSoft all these great companies and
2:44they had everything going for them and
2:46everyone said that this company was
2:47going to change the world IPO make a ton
2:51of money and everybody had high
2:54expectations for them well after they
2:56had been in business for a while they
2:59called my little friend firm to do some
3:00work with their executive team and God
3:02bless you and so oh look a bird you know
3:05and
3:07so and so we went to work to to observe
3:10before we started and did a two-day
3:12offsite with his team we went and
3:13observed one of their staff meetings
3:15just to kind of get a read on the team
3:16and we learned two very interesting
3:18things about this team first of all they
3:20weren't doing very well in the market
3:21compared to some of their competitors
3:23and it was very puzzling because they
3:25had so much
3:27promise the second thing we noticed was
3:30that there was this one member of the
3:31team it happened to be a woman it
3:32doesn't matter she was in charge of
3:34marketing and whenever she spoke during
3:36the meeting something strange would
3:38happen she'd Express her opinion and
3:41everyone else would go silent and
3:43there'd be this uncomfortable pause
3:45until they changed the subject and
3:46started again so they would say what
3:47should we do about this competitor and
3:49she'd say well this is what we used to
3:50do at my old company so this is what I
3:51think and they'd be like quiet total
3:54momentum killer until they change the
3:56subject then then people on the team and
3:57I said why do you do that what's going
3:59on there and they said ah because every
4:02time we disagree with her or have a
4:03different opinion she never acknowledges
4:05that we might be right she always
4:07insists that she's correct and defends
4:10herself and we finally just decided why
4:12bother why bother so we thought that was
4:16interesting a couple weeks later we went
4:18and did a two-day off-site meeting with
4:20that executive team so we went offsite
4:23and during the first day of that meeting
4:24we talked about trust and vulnerability
4:27but we also talked about strategy and
4:28tactics in the company and what they
4:30were doing in their business and then
4:31that night we went to dinner at an
4:33Italian restaurant where we had some
4:35wine with dinner which of course is the
4:37great elixir of Truth for most executive
4:41teams many of you found that out last
4:43night probably and so after dinner this
4:47woman had a few too many glasses of
4:49wine and she stood up and I couldn't
4:52write this I promise she stood up raised
4:55her glass and said she had a few too
4:57many glasses said okay we've been
4:59talking about trust today and I just
5:01want to let you know I've been married
5:02for 10 years to my husband now and I
5:04barely learned to trust him this year
5:06and so I'm probably not going to be
5:08trusting you guys anytime soon if ever
5:12cheers and we were like cheers all
5:18right so the CEO and I he and I went
5:21outside and talked about this and we
5:23said okay here's the problem that this
5:24woman has there she has a fundamental
5:26trust
5:27issue and it probably dates back to her
5:29childhood I mean it would seemed pretty
5:31serious and as much as we wanted to go
5:32get you know a
5:34local priest or Minister and Dr Phil I
5:37don't know if you know who Dr Phil is
5:39and and This Woman's mama in for
5:40counseling you know we realized we
5:43couldn't afford to do that we had to
5:44make this team work but we also didn't
5:45want to just fire her we said we got to
5:47work with her and get her to open up to
5:48the team so after a number of months I
5:50worked with her and the CEO worked with
5:52her and it became very clear she was not
5:53going to change her trust issues were
5:55that deep she couldn't be vulnerable so
5:57we the the CEO finally managed her off
5:59the team and out of the company and do
6:02you know the very next meeting that we
6:04had without her there the Dynamics had
6:06changed so much that you would have
6:08thought they had swapped out every
6:10member of that executive team for a new
6:12one because if just one member of a team
6:14and that's the moral of this story if
6:16just one member of a team cannot be
6:18vulnerable it's going to spread like a
6:20disease to the entire team one member
6:22now everybody's going to come at that
6:24differently oh you right oh that's
6:27sorry um sorry
6:31um
6:32[Music]
6:34okay if one member of a team cannot be
6:36vulnerable it's going to spread like a
6:38disease to the entire team so how do we
6:39get our teammates to be vulnerable and
6:41some people are going to come at it in
6:42different ways different personalities
6:43different histories but we got to know
6:45that everybody's willing to be
6:46vulnerable and acknowledge their
6:48weaknesses so how do we do that well the
6:51only way to do it is if the leader goes
6:54first if the leader is the first one to
6:57be vulnerable cuz see if the leader
6:58can't be vulnerable than nobody else is
7:00nobody else will be so let me tell you a
7:02story about that and for those that were
7:03here yesterday this is the story I told
7:04you I wasn't planning on telling it
7:05yesterday but I have to retell it so I
7:08once worked with a CEO who's a famous
7:09guy you've seen his picture on many
7:11national International magazines he's
7:13very famous I worked with him when he
7:14was at a previous company and and to be
7:16quite Frank he was not a great leader
7:19but he was brilliant and intimidating
7:22and famous and so nobody on his team in
7:26this company ever disagreed with him and
7:29the head of Human Resources God blesser
7:31went to this guy and said listen nobody
7:32ever tells you when they disagree you're
7:34not benefiting from the opinions of the
7:35people on the team you have to do
7:37something and they and they agreed to do
7:39360 feedback to get feedback from the
7:42team which is sometimes a good idea
7:43sometimes not well they asked my little
7:46firm to administer this 360 feedback
7:48tool to get feedback from his team so we
7:50did and we collected all the information
7:51from his team members and then we gave
7:53him the results and he proceeded to
7:55share those results with no one and so
7:57finally the head of a to go over the
8:00results with your team they're curious
8:01as to what they learned from what you
8:02learned and he said okay I'll do it at
8:04the next staff meeting and then he
8:07reluctantly begrudgingly allowed me as
8:09an outsider who administered the tool to
8:11observe this meeting and so I sat off to
8:14the side on a little chair that had
8:17wheels on the bottom of it which will
8:18become relevant here in just a
8:21second and he stood up and he said okay
8:23it says here I'm not a very good
8:25listener huh what do you guys think and
8:29they went around that table and said I
8:31think you're a good listener I do too I
8:33think you're a good I don't think you're
8:34a bad listener I I don't have a problem
8:35with that I think you're a fine listener
8:36so do I and I remember cuz I had only
8:39written one book at this point in my
8:40career and I thought I could never put
8:42this in my books nobody would believe
8:44this right so he said okay good good the
8:47next one here says I'm not a very good I
8:48don't give enough feedback or praise huh
8:51I thought I'd gotten better at this what
8:52do you guys
8:53think yeah I think you're great at it I
8:55think you've gotten much better I don't
8:56think there's a problem all the way
8:58around the table
9:00and this is where and I laugh about it
9:02now but I remember this well I was
9:03sitting there on my chair thinking if I
9:05have any Integrity as a consultant this
9:08is where I have to lose a client or put
9:09one in Jeopardy right so I got on my
9:12little chair and I was like eek eek eek
9:15and I remember this well never forget I
9:17rolled up right next to this famous CEO
9:18and I said excuse me um but you guys are
9:21the only people who filled this survey
9:23out so somebody had to write
9:26this very quiet in the room
9:29so the head of marketing poor guy slowly
9:33raised his hand said uh yeah I I think
9:36you could give more I'd like to get more
9:39I mean my team would like to get more
9:40feedback and praise from
9:42you and you know they only hear from you
9:44if they screw up and I think it'd be
9:45nice if you told them if they did
9:47something well so yeah I I think that I
9:50wrote that on my form I can vouch for
9:51that I think you could improve in that
9:53area
9:55silence till the head lawyer goes not me
9:58I think you get plenty of praise said so
9:59do I I don't understand what he's
10:01talking about and they killed the guy
10:02I'm melting I'm
10:05melting now the moral of that story is
10:08this that's the day first of all that
10:10that CEO lost all
10:12credibility secondly it's when he that's
10:14how he sent a message to the team I'm
10:16never going to be vulnerable you guys
10:17shouldn't be either you know eventually
10:19that company spun out of control and and
10:21and went out of business or sold off for
10:23a fraction of its worth you know what
10:24the Wall Street Journal said they had
10:26strategic problems they had some errors
10:29and their product but those were
10:31Downstream symptoms of the real problem
10:34the real problem was that there was no
10:35trust on that team and it started with
10:37the leader who couldn't be
10:39vulnerable now he didn't have to do
10:41anything weird all he had to do is stand
10:43up there and say hey you guys I I know
10:45I've got some issues um I've been I've
10:47heard about this in performance reviews
10:49throughout my career and well my wife
10:51tells me this once a week or so and I
10:54know that I'm not great at it I'll give
10:55it a shot I'll try to get better I don't
10:57know that I'll ever be great but I'm
10:58going to try and I appreciate your
10:59feedback that's all he had to
11:01do but he stood there instead like the
11:03emperor with no clothes with his big old
11:05bottom hanging out like how do I look
11:07guys they're like you look fine
11:10boss and everybody said don't admit
11:12you've got
11:14problems
11:16now some people will say but Pat what
11:18about that old saying don't let them see
11:20a sweat you know how leaders were not
11:22supposed to let people see a
11:24sweat you know the truth is the people
11:27we're that work for us they know when
11:29we're sweating before we do you can't
11:32really hide it and that's why the best
11:34leaders are the ones that go check this
11:38out do you know when you work for
11:40somebody who's honest about their
11:42faults you think you know you're human
11:46and you know your humanity and you know
11:49the issues you have those are the
11:51leaders will walk through walls of fire
11:53for but see you can't trust someone if
11:56they don't know who they are and they're
11:57not comfortable with who they are
11:59because then you have to protect them
12:00from their ego which is why
12:02vulnerability is such a powerful thing
12:05but it's so funny we as Leaders don't
12:06like to Humble ourselves to share in our
12:08Humanity which is all we have we are
12:10called as Leaders to be vulnerable and
12:13when we do other people will trust us
12:16okay now some people will say but you
12:19don't want to be too vulnerable do you
12:21you know the truth is I don't think you
12:23can be too vulnerable I suppose if you
12:26come to work every day and you say hey I
12:27made a mistake made another mistake
12:28don't know what I'm doing there oop
12:29screwed that one up
12:31too I think that's probably a competence
12:34issue not a vulnerability
12:40problem the truth is whatever our issues
12:42are we got to be out there with our team
12:44cuz that's the only way they're going to
12:45trust us and only way we're going to
12:47inspire them to do the same with one
12:49another now I spend a lot of time
12:52talking about trust because it's at the
12:53base of this pyramid because without it
12:56we're not going to overcome the other
12:57four dysfunctions of a team see trust is
12:59so important and if we can build trust
13:01on our teams we have a great chance of
13:03overcoming the others and in fact trust
13:06is what allows us to overcome the next
13:07dysfunction of a team which is the fear
13:09of conflict the fear of conflict I love
13:12talking about this one see the thing is
13:15on teams conflict is a good
13:17thing conflict even in meetings it is
13:21conflict is a good thing now I'm not
13:24talking about mean-spirited
13:25interpersonal conflict I'm talking about
13:27productive ideological conflict around
13:29issues I have an idea what should we do
13:32but see without trust without
13:34vulnerability based trust conflict
13:36becomes politics I'm trying to
13:38manipulate you to
13:40win but with trust conflict is nothing
13:44but the pursuit of Truth or the best
13:47possible
13:48answer when we trust one another we know
13:51that if we're debating something even
13:53passionately then we know it's because
13:54we're just trying to do the right thing
13:57and that's a good thing now now but
13:59before we go further I want to say this
14:00TR conflict is going to look different
14:02from culture to culture company to
14:04company family to family person to
14:07person and that's okay if anybody here
14:08done work in Japan I'm sure there's
14:10somebody show show of hands so you done
14:12work in Japan you know if you were to go
14:13to Japan and you were to sit at a table
14:16with a group of Japanese Executives and
14:18one of them were to say I have an idea
14:20this is what I think we should do and
14:21the other Executives didn't like his
14:22idea what would they
14:24do yes they would nod their head and
14:26they say hi yes hi hi that means I don't
14:28like like your
14:31idea now if they hated the
14:34idea if they loathed the idea you know
14:36what they would do they go like this hi
14:38yes hi hi hi yes they'd suck through
14:41their teeth if you're at a meeting with
14:43a Japanese executive and he or she sucks
14:45through their teeth well I want you to
14:47picture an Italian doing a certain
14:49gesture with their arms as we know that
14:51I won't do here in front of the Cardinal
14:52but it's it's the same
14:56thing and you just have to understand
14:58that that's how they say no way I hate
15:00this in Japan and it's going to look
15:02different in Italy and Israel and and
15:04even in the United States you might know
15:05something about the United States I'll
15:06tell you this I'm sure in Europe it it
15:08happens too but in the United States I
15:09saw a cartoon years ago that depicted
15:11this and it showed a guy on the west
15:12coast in Los Angeles and then he was
15:14with the team and he said to somebody
15:16good morning but the bubble showed what
15:17he was really thinking and in effect it
15:19said screw you and then it showed a guy
15:22in New York City on the next frame and
15:24he said to somebody hey screw you and
15:25the bubble said good morning
15:30and you can apply that to your countries
15:31and continents and I know you know what
15:33it means the truth of the matter is
15:35though whether you're Italian and Irish
15:39like me with conflict or whether you're
15:41Demir about it it doesn't matter
15:43whatever your team you just have to have
15:44a team culture and the key is this you
15:48just have to know that people on your
15:49team are not holding back they're not
15:52calculating the cost of disagreeing
15:55they're not considering the political
15:56ramifications if there's something
15:58important you're talking about and they
15:59disagree they're going to say it again
16:02and
16:04again now as I said I'm Italian and
16:09Irish my wife is neither she never saw
16:12her parents argue growing up but she's a
16:14convert if you know what I
16:17mean and you know how converts are
16:19they're better at things than people
16:20born into them so she has learned to
16:23argue so well and after she and I got
16:27married her little sister married my
16:33roommate so my buddy became my
16:35brother-in-law which was kind of nice
16:38except a year and a half later they got
16:41divorced yeah and and he went to
16:43counseling after the divorce and he came
16:45to me later and he said you know
16:46something Pat I always thought that you
16:48and Laura my wife had a bad marriage
16:50because you guys argue he said now I
16:53realize that we had a bad marriage
16:54because we couldn't
16:56argue which of course is not to say that
16:58theity of your marriage is directly
17:00proportionate to the number of fights
17:01you have but what it is to say is great
17:04relationships are built on the ability
17:06to disagree even passionately at times
17:08and to know that you can recover from
17:10that and it gets better remember for
17:12those of you that are married the first
17:13time you had a fight with your spouse
17:15and you thought oh this is going to be
17:16the shortest marriage in the history of
17:18the world and now later on you can cycle
17:20through a an argument 10 times worse in
17:225 minutes and be done and it's a
17:25beautiful thing and you realize because
17:27you trust each other you when you when
17:29you argue you're usually just trying to
17:30solve a problem and and you forgive one
17:33another and all teams have to learn how
17:35to do that conflict is necessary now
17:39many leaders I talk to many CEOs I work
17:41with will say and and by the way most of
17:43them have very little conflict there's
17:46far less conflict in almost every
17:47organization than there needs to be and
17:50I'll say to them why don't you engage in
17:52Conflict more they say well because I
17:53don't want to see people get their
17:54feelings hurt which is interesting and
17:58ironic because cuz you know what kind of
17:59organizations people get their feelings
18:01hurt in the
18:02worst of all the kind of organizations
18:04in society where is there the worst kind
18:07of hurtful back Channel
18:10conflict you can say it all together 1 2
18:123 church church that's right now I like
18:16to have fun with that when I'm working
18:17with a secular audience because I tell
18:19them that as well and I say and I work
18:20in my local church and I've come to
18:22realize why churches have such bad
18:24conflict it's because they hire mean
18:25people and they're I was like really
18:28where do you go to church I'm like no
18:29it's not that in fact it's the
18:32opposite we go to church I I'm Catholic
18:34we have a parish council meeting which
18:36is a group of volunteers and we'll sit
18:38down around a table to solve problems
18:39and some very nice lady will say I think
18:42we should have a festival of balloons
18:43next week or something and I'm thinking
18:46that's the dumbest thing I've ever
18:49heard but I don't say that to her cuz
18:51I'm
18:54Christian I say oh great idea thank you
18:57for that good okay anybody else great
19:00great meeting everybody thank
19:05you then I go out in the parking lot
19:07with my friend and I say I think she's
19:09an idiot don't
19:14you and at meeting after meeting we go
19:16to we never disagree we start to roll
19:18our eyes whenever she speaks we sigh and
19:20finally one of her friends tells her
19:21that someone thinks she's an idiot now
19:23we've crushed her
19:24spirit but at least we didn't disagree
19:26with her idea ladies and
19:35gentlemen when we fail to disagree with
19:38people around ideas and
19:40issues it ferments into conflict around
19:43them as a
19:44person it builds up and it comes out in
19:47a hurtful way when we think we're
19:49preserving the relationship by not
19:51disagreeing we are actually dooming that
19:54relationship to failure in a hurtful way
19:56later we owe it to one another to
19:58disagree so we have to teach our teams
20:00trust so that they will engage in good
20:02conflict now some CEOs will say I don't
20:04care if people get their feelings hurt
20:05Pat I just don't want to waste a bunch
20:07of time arguing why don't I just make
20:09the decision for them and we'll move on
20:10I'll be their hero and save them three
20:12hours so they can go read email or
20:14something but when we do that when we
20:18when we skip over important
20:22conflict we end up putting ourselves in
20:24a position to encounter the next
20:26dysfunction of a team which is the lack
20:27of commitment the lack of commitment you
20:29see when people don't weigh in on a
20:31subject when there's no disagreement or
20:33conflict when people don't weigh in they
20:37don't buy in to the decision I
20:39fundamentally believe that if people
20:40don't weigh in they don't buy in now
20:42just in case you think I'm arguing for
20:44consensus please know God bless you that
20:46consensus to me is a four-letter
20:49word I don't like consensus if we wait
20:52for consensus in our organizations we
20:54will usually make decisions that are too
20:55late and mutually disagreeable to
20:57everyone
21:00we need to be able to make this we need
21:02to do what Intel that the chip
21:03manufacturer you know the computer chip
21:04manufacturers talks about they have the
21:06same they say disagree and commit what a
21:09beautiful thing we can disagree but then
21:11we can commit to an answer and walk out
21:13of the room together but the only way to
21:15do that is if we as Leaders provoke good
21:18constructive conflict we have to demand
21:20that the people that work for us weigh
21:21in and we have a difficult decision to
21:23make are we going to expand or are we
21:25going to contract are what are we going
21:27to do are we going to build a SAT church
21:29or we going to add on here whatever it
21:31might be and we have to sit down with
21:33our team and say what do you think and
21:34we have to demand that people stand up
21:36and weigh in and then at the end of that
21:38discussion when there's not a natural
21:39consensus and there rarely is if there
21:41is hallelujah thank God we move on but
21:43there's not a natural consensus
21:45consensus that's when we as leaders have
21:46to do what we're paid the medium-sized
21:48bucks to do and that's break the
21:51tie we have to say I think I've heard
21:53from everybody here and I understand why
21:54you want to expand and I want understand
21:56why you want to satellite and I
21:57understand why you want to build here I
21:58understand what you don't want to do
21:59either I get it I get it my job as your
22:01leader now is to break the tie and
22:02here's what we're going to do we're
22:03going to build the satellite and I
22:05realize that you might be right after
22:06all but this is the decision we're going
22:08to make and I need your commitment do
22:09you know that 99 out of a 100 times
22:12those people will support that decision
22:14even if they
22:15disagreed we're not talking about moral
22:17ethical decisions here we're talking
22:18about what's the right thing to do and
22:20when we when people know that they've
22:21been heard not humored but heard and
22:24that their input has been factored into
22:26the decision they can support things
22:28even even if they disagreed and when we
22:30don't have that conflict we are begging
22:33them not to commit are they going to go
22:36what are they going to do if we don't
22:37have the con the conflict and I make the
22:39decision are they going to go sabotage
22:41the new satellite church no I wish they
22:43would because that would be far more
22:45interesting but that only happens on TV
22:48and in the movies in real life it what
22:51happens is far more boring and more
22:54dangerous what they do is they passively
22:56commit they nod their head and smile at
22:59the meeting and then they go back to
23:01their department or their office and
23:02they say I don't know if this is a good
23:04idea and they tell people yeah I'm not
23:06sure this is a good idea and then when
23:08they see an issue they alligator arm
23:10things you know they're like oh let me
23:11help you with that oh no
23:16okay or they see a train wreck about to
23:18happen and instead of jumping out there
23:19and going wait they step back and they
23:21go watch
23:25this and then the leader calls them back
23:27and says what's going on and they said
23:28well I never really thought it was the
23:30right idea in the first place oo that's
23:32painful that's why we have to get that
23:34out on the table up front we have to
23:36demand that people weigh in we have to
23:38demand that conflict so that we can get
23:41real commitment why is it so important
23:43that we get real commitment well that
23:44sounds obvious but the real reason why
23:46there's a practical reason because if we
23:48don't get commitment then we're going to
23:50have the next dysfunction at our
23:52doorstep and that is the avoidance of
23:54accountability God bless you this is the
23:56worst most common problem we have an
23:58online team assessment that teams take
24:00and they get a scorecard back of this
24:01triangle that says green yellow red
24:03which of the ones are good or bad and
24:05this is usually the lowest
24:08score what happens is when people
24:10haven't committed to a decision they're
24:12not going to have the courage to hold
24:13one another accountable for that for the
24:15behavior that goes with it they're not
24:18going to have the courage to hold one
24:20another accountable notice what I said
24:21there I didn't say the leader holding
24:23them accountable I said them holding one
24:25another accountable you see on great
24:27teams accountability
24:29is peer-to-peer
24:31peer pressure in your organization is
24:33the best kind of
24:35accountability you want people turning
24:37to one another what's the opposite of
24:39that is when people see a team member
24:40not supporting something they go oh hey
24:42boss I want to tell you she's not
24:43supporting this don't tell her it was me
24:44that told you but I just want you to
24:45know then the boss is like oh great I
24:47get to go and he goes to that person hey
24:49I understand you're not doing who told
24:50you that well don't worry about who told
24:51you I just want and now they're
24:52wondering who ratted them out and
24:53there's all this politics and the
24:54leaders dragged into it what a great
24:56thing when people turn to one another
24:58and say hey what's what's wrong what's
25:00going on I don't think this is what we
25:02agreed to and give them the benefit of
25:05the doubt to explain what's happening
25:07but call them on it
25:08directly okay now how do we create a
25:13team environment where there's peer
25:15accountability and we as leaders are not
25:16getting dragged into it all the time
25:18well there's an irony to this the only
25:20way to create an environment where
25:22people will hold each other accountable
25:24is if we as leaders are willing
25:26to confront difficult
25:29issues see the irony is if I as a leader
25:32and willing to confront people then
25:34people know well he's going to do it
25:35anyway we might as well do it from each
25:37other for each other but if I as a
25:39leader do not like to hold people
25:40accountable and let me tell you
25:41something I don't I'm bad at this one
25:44this is my problem as a leader I'm I'm
25:46very aware of that I do not like to hold
25:48people accountable you know what that
25:50means my team isn't going to do it why
25:51should they do it Pat's going to let you
25:53off the hook anyway see the irony is by
25:55me not being willing to they're not
25:57going to do it
25:58by the way there's a technical term for
26:00people who don't like to hold their
26:02their folks accountable I don't know if
26:03you've ever studied graduate level
26:05psychology or business but I'm what's
26:07called a
26:09wuss okay and you know what's
26:13funny most of the leaders I work with
26:15are also
26:17wusses most of them don't think so in
26:19fact most CEOs I work with will say well
26:22Pat I don't have a problem with
26:23accountability let's just move right on
26:24to the next thing and I'm like well
26:25that's great to know why do you say that
26:27though and they say well cuz I fire
26:28people all the time I mean I fired a guy
26:30just last week pick someone I'll fire
26:32him right now just to prove it to
26:36you of course firing someone is often
26:39the last Act of cowardice not
26:41accountability sometimes it's necessary
26:43oh I know that but often times it's not
26:46see let me tell you a couple stories I
26:47worked with a CEO once he got hired by a
26:50big company that was kind of struggling
26:52and they they gave him the title of CEO
26:55president and Chief Operating Officer he
26:57had all the big titles a year after
26:59stabilizing this company he went to the
27:00board of directors and he said listen I
27:02don't want to be the president and Chief
27:04Operating Officer anymore I just want to
27:05be the CEO and focus on strategy and
27:07externals I want to hire somebody to run
27:09the day-to-day operations the board said
27:10hey you've earned the right to do that
27:12fine so he went out looking for a new
27:14president and Chief Operating Officer
27:17and while he was out looking one of the
27:19members of his team who I will call Fred
27:23Fred started to tell his peers I'm going
27:26to be the next president it will be me I
27:28remember this and I thought it must be
27:29true I mean who would say that well
27:31people did not like Fred at all on the
27:32executive team he was not liked at all
27:35and people were really concerned that
27:36they were going to have to work for this
27:38guy so finally one member of the
27:40executive team went to the CEO and said
27:41can I ask you a question the CEO said
27:43sure he said did you know that Fred is
27:45telling everybody he's going to be the
27:46next president and the CEO said no I had
27:50no idea that's news to me I had not
27:52heard that and he said okay um next
27:55question is he going to be the next
27:57president the CEO said oh no I would
27:59never do that no he would no there's no
28:01chance no oh good good good okay last
28:03question are you going to tell him to
28:05stop telling everybody
28:07that here's what the CEO said in this
28:09case verbatim but I've heard this from
28:11many leaders over the years the same
28:12kind of answer the CEO said oh I don't
28:14have the time and the energy for
28:16that I don't have the time and the
28:18energy for that I don't know about you
28:21but can you imagine the CEO picking up
28:22the phone hey Fred it's the CEO how you
28:24doing yeah hey you're not going to be
28:25the next president no no you're not n
28:27you're kind of pissing me off that
28:28you're telling everybody that yeah you
28:29should stop buddy yeah if you don't stop
28:31doing that something bad's going to
28:32happen to you okay have a great day
28:36byebye who's tired I'm not tired that
28:39took what 10
28:42seconds I don't have the time and the
28:45energy for
28:47that once it happened to me directly I
28:49was working for the CEO of a company I
28:50was in charge of uh leadership
28:52development and organizational
28:53communication right and I had my annual
28:55budget review with a Chief Financial
28:57Officer and he was an old school kogy
28:59CFO and when we sat down to go through
29:01he said Pat before we get into your
29:02numbers I'd like to tell you that if it
29:04were up to me I'd fire you and your
29:06staff and put the savings to the bottom
29:08line of the company cuz I think what you
29:09do is silly but I'm from California so I
29:12thanked him for sharing you know I
29:14appreciated
29:16that and then I Said Fred I call him all
29:19Fred I Said Fred but these are the CEO's
29:21problems I mean programs and you don't
29:24like them why don't you just go have it
29:25out with him he's your nextd door
29:27neighbor in this big company and why
29:28don't you either convince him that
29:29you're right and put me out of my misery
29:32or let him convince you that he's right
29:33and join get on board he said I'm not
29:35going to talk to him I don't care and I
29:37said then I will fine next day I knocked
29:39on the CEO's door I said hey Fred hates
29:41the stuff I'm doing for you he doesn't
29:44you got to talk to him about it he goes
29:46oh that's just Fred everybody knows
29:47Fred's like that I said well not
29:49everybody knows Fred because this
29:51company was the size of this room and I
29:53said and even if they do know Fred it
29:55still hurts the programs and it makes
29:56the executive team look bad and he said
29:58to me oh Pat I don't have time for that
29:59I got angry customers to deal with I got
30:02lawsuits to worry I got Wall Street I
30:04don't have time for that now what do you
30:06notice about both of those
30:09examples they didn't neither of them
30:12didn't have the time and the energy to
30:14hold people accountable for their
30:15missing their numbers four quarters in a
30:17row cuz all of us even the wussiest of
30:20us leaders will hold somebody
30:21accountable for for quantitative results
30:23that are problematic they didn't have
30:25the time and the energy to hold people
30:26accountable for their
30:28behaviors ladies and gentlemen
30:30behavioral accountability always
30:32precedes the results and we see the
30:34behaviors that we know are going to lead
30:35to problems and yet it's the hardest
30:37thing as a leader to hold somebody
30:38accountable or to confront them about
30:39their behavior because we might be wrong
30:41and it's a little subjective and it
30:42seems judgmental and they might not like
30:44it so we just say I'll just wait and see
30:46how the numbers turn
30:49out instead of having the courage and
30:51it's courage and love to confront them
30:54about the behaviors that they need to
30:55change see I don't like holding people
30:58accountable and I used to think it was
30:59because I cared so much about my
31:01employees that I didn't want them to
31:02feel bad and one day I realized it was
31:04selfishness that kept me from doing that
31:06cuz I didn't want them to blame me for
31:07feeling bad and I didn't want to be
31:09around them when they
31:11did okay you know who taught me the the
31:14Brilliance of and the importance of
31:17accountability my my son Connor he's a
31:20management Guru but he's 15 but don't
31:22think I'm taking management advice from
31:24a 15-year-old a teenager he was seven
31:26when he taught this to me
31:30so Connor's a twin and him and his
31:32brother Matthew got put into
31:34timeout no no Matthew got put into
31:36timeout as I was getting ready to tell
31:38bedtime story so he had to leave the
31:40room and I'm in the bunk bed with Connor
31:41telling him a bedtime story about
31:44halfway through Matthew comes back into
31:45the room and says what are you are you
31:47guys not done yet and I said no we're
31:48halfway through the story and like any
31:50good seven-year-old he says can I stay
31:53for the second half like any dad who's
31:55been around the block before I say sure
31:57come in cuz I'm a
32:01wuss so I start to tell the story my
32:04wife comes in Laura thankfully not a
32:06wuss and she says what's he doing in
32:07here and I'm like well he missed the
32:08first half I thought he could stay for
32:09the site she goes no Matt you're out of
32:11here you're in timeout so Matthew does
32:13the Walk of
32:13[Music]
32:15Shame the emotional guy that I am I feel
32:17really bad for him I feel sad that I put
32:19him through that I turn around Connor my
32:22seven-year-old son looks at me and he
32:24says this and he did Dad if you don't
32:26hold him accountable he's never going to
32:27learn the consequences of his
32:34actions 7 years old lecturing me a
32:37management expert about the need to hold
32:39people accountable here's the truth
32:41though and here's how I learned it if we
32:44love someone and I hope you love the
32:46people that work for you you owe it to
32:49them to hold them accountable even if
32:52they don't love you back for it many
32:55times they are not going to we know this
32:57as parents you know but we get in the
32:59working environment we think I don't
33:00really want to do that we have to love
33:03someone enough talk about Selfless Love
33:05that we will hold them accountable even
33:08if they injure us for that I last I have
33:12to move on here and talk about the last
33:14dysfunction of a team the inattention to
33:17results the reason why we have to hold
33:19people accountable is because if we
33:21don't they're going to think that the
33:23results don't matter cuz see we have to
33:24hold them accountable to results it's
33:26not always Financial results if it's a
33:27church it's saving Souls if it's feeding
33:29people it's the the hungry who get food
33:31and so how do we make sure that people
33:33are focused on results well what else
33:34would they pay attention to if not
33:36results well how about their budget
33:37their Department their career their
33:40status their
33:41ego God bless you now just in case you
33:45don't think people in your organization
33:47are selfish enough to think about
33:49themselves and over the team I want to
33:51tell you a story from the World of
33:52Sports now I don't know how many of you
33:54follow basketball but there's a team
33:55called the Chicago Bulls that you know
33:56Michael Jordan Michael is pretty famous
33:58Michael Jordan used to play for the
34:00Chicago Bulls and after he retired the
34:02second best player on the Bulls was a
34:04guy named Scotty Pippen Scotty Pippen
34:06was one of the best players in the NBA
34:08and they had a great team around him and
34:09a great coach and even after Jordan
34:12retired they said this team could very
34:14well win the championship again and so
34:17they they they made it to the playoffs
34:19and they were playing their hated rival
34:21the New York Knicks and they were on the
34:23sideline tie game 20,000 people in the
34:26arena National Television tie game with
34:30two seconds left in the game the Bulls
34:32called timeout to take the last shot to
34:34win the
34:35game the coach Drew the team over to the
34:37sideline and he said here's what we're
34:39going to do we're going to get the ball
34:40to this guy named Tony kach a European
34:42player who was a really good shooter and
34:44he's going to have the best chance to
34:45make the basket Pippen looked at the
34:48sheet and said no no I should get the
34:50ball I'm the best player and the coach
34:51said no no no see K coach will have a
34:53better chance to have an open shot so
34:55he's going to take it he goes no I get
34:56the ball I'm the best player
34:58and the coach said no you don't get the
35:00ball see K coach is going to get the
35:02ball you're not you're going to be over
35:03here and he the the player said if I
35:05don't get the ball then I'm not going
35:07out on the
35:08court the coach said okay you're in for
35:11Pippen they put him in the best player
35:13sat on the bench the the the fans were
35:15like why is he not in the game and the
35:17announcers were like did he foul out did
35:18he get injured what happened no he
35:20refused to play the team made the shot
35:23won the game but that's irrelevant the
35:25moral of this story is this I wish
35:27everybody in this room all of your
35:29organizations and churches had people
35:31with the courage and Audacity Of Scotty
35:33Pippen who could stand up in front of
35:34everyone and say listen you guys it's
35:35not about the team it's about me cuz
35:37then we'd know who to
35:39fire I mean that' be so nice it's like
35:42thank you for telling me I always
35:45thought that about you but I wasn't sure
35:47but thank
35:48you but they're not going to do that
35:50they're going to go to meetings and nod
35:52and smile and that's why we have to make
35:53sure they're focused on results and the
35:55only way to do that is to hold them
35:56accountable out of love and the only way
35:57way to do that is to make sure that
35:59they're committed the only way to get
36:00that commitment is if they disagree
36:01passionately and the only way to do that
36:03is if they trust each other and are
36:05vulnerable and I've gone a little bit
36:07over my time I'm sorry thank you for
36:09having me here God bless
36:13you sorry about that