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Col. Macgregor: Israel Went After the Wrong Enemy — And Walked Into a Trap

Bilanka -71c° · 7,713 words · 36 min read

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0:00Um and Trump did post today asking for a

0:02complete ceasefire on all fronts

0:04including Lebanon, Hezbollah, and

0:06Israel. So Trump posted that I think two

0:08hours ago. So instead of talking about

0:10the shift in the rhetoric, Colonel, I

0:12want to ask you about this particular um

0:16the wild card in this and that's Israel.

0:19So let's start there. We're already

0:20seeing that being an obstacle. I'd love

0:22to get your thoughts on u on whether

0:24Trump will be able to to reign in

0:27Netanyahu.

0:29Well, it appears that the Israeli

0:32leadership and its billionaire

0:34supporters in the United States who were

0:36instrumental in putting Trump into the

0:39White House have decided to turn current

0:43events into a test uh of Jewish power.

0:46And what I mean by that is that this is

0:48a test of just how much power they

0:50wield, how far they can go, and what

0:53they can achieve. I think that's a

0:55mistake because I think their power and

0:57influence

0:59it's already disproportionate to what it

1:02ought to be, if it ought to be at all.

1:05But I think they've achieved enough in

1:08terms of uh

1:11enticing us into this war and then

1:14ultimately hurling us into the teeth of

1:16the enemy for them. I think they should

1:19take a different approach, but uh

1:21obviously I hold the minority opinion. I

1:23think they're going to try very hard to

1:26bully President Trump back into

1:29attacking Iran. I think that's where

1:33we're headed. Saw the report by CNN

1:36today. Um, let me try to find it. But

1:39essentially says that there it is.

1:41Netanyahu is reportedly lobbying to

1:43shape the final US agreement, US Iran

1:45agreement, including by pressuring Trump

1:47through allies and intermediaries in

1:49Washington. Netanyahu has mobilized

1:51pro-Israeli senators and media allies,

1:54which by the way, I don't know how these

1:56guys are not registered as foreign

1:59agents and not facing legal scrutiny for

2:01this,

2:02>> but let's skip that. That's another

2:04story. And media allies in an effort to

2:06influence the negotiations and secure

2:08changes to the terms of a final deal

2:09with Iran. Netanyahu reportedly believes

2:12a final agreement will be reached, but

2:14remains concerned that Iran will not

2:15uphold his commitment. separately.

2:16Netanyahu said on Lebanon, "We will

2:19restore security to the north. That

2:20requires keeping the security zone in

2:22southern Lebanon and not leaving as long

2:24as Israel's security needs require it."

2:27In other words, Netanyahu is uh is

2:30rallying all the supporters and the

2:32influence he has in the US to try to

2:34pressure Trump. So, my question to you,

2:36do you think it is enough or do you

2:38think Trump has what it takes to not bow

2:40to that pressure?

2:42I wish I could give you a resounding uh

2:45yes as an answer that he can withstand

2:47the pressure. I think so.

2:51I think he and the Iranians have

2:54collectively reached the point where

2:56they see no point in any further war

2:59between us. I think that's really what

3:01you're hearing from President Trump.

3:03Now, I have to go back a few years. In

3:05my short interactions with him,

3:09he conveyed the impression to me of two

3:12things. Number one, he did not want a

3:14war with Iran. I mean, be perfectly

3:16frank about that. He didn't see the need

3:18for it. He was confident that some sort

3:21of arrangement could be reached. In

3:23other words, a deal could be struck.

3:26Secondly, Donald Trump conveyed to me

3:29the impression that this was not

3:30somebody who wanted to go to war with

3:32anyone.

3:34that was really not his predisposition

3:36at all and that he was genuinely focused

3:39on the United States.

3:41So when he came back into the political

3:43arena, [clears throat] most of what he

3:45said in his runup to the presidency

3:49was consistent with what I had heard

3:51from him in private. Then he went

3:54through this transformation. The

3:55transformation really began with

3:56Ukraine. He could have ended that war

3:59very very quickly if he had decided to

4:02do what made sense which was to tell

4:03Zilinski no cut him off and say we will

4:07no longer support you. We want you to

4:09come to uh reality with Russia. You

4:14can't live in a state of perpetual

4:15hostility to Russia. So please sit down

4:17with the Russians. He didn't do that. In

4:21fact, the opposite occurred

4:22[clears throat]

4:22and he began repeating the sort of

4:25nonsense statements about Ukraine and

4:28Russia that were common in the neocon

4:30circles. So that disturbed me and uh

4:34that was the end of any further

4:35conversation that I had be with the

4:37president about foreign relations. That

4:40was April of 2022.

4:43And then he started to move increasingly

4:45into this state of belligerance.

4:48Now, I I thought

4:50at the beginning of the collision with

4:52Iran

4:54that when when he announced that he had

4:56sent the B2 bombers in for this

4:58beautiful attack and all this kind of

5:00nonsense and it was beautiful and

5:02perfect and wonderful and he then

5:04declared the war is over. You know,

5:07we've destroyed it. It's over. I think

5:09he was telling you what he wanted it to

5:11be. I think he was being truthful in so

5:14far as saying, "I want this thing over,

5:18>> but he couldn't do it." And I think he

5:21was overwhelmed by Netanyahu and his

5:24supporters in the United States. You

5:26know, when you're dealing with people

5:28that are very, very wealthy, powerful

5:31figures in your society, and you have to

5:34be concerned about what they could do

5:36against you. It's not just what can they

5:38do for you, but what can they also do

5:40against you. I think he took all of that

5:42into account and he said, "All right, I

5:45will give this a shot." And I think he

5:47talked to his inner circle and his inner

5:49circle for the most part was supportive.

5:51I think one or two said, "Well, you

5:52know, I don't know. I think this could

5:54be tough." I think Vance was one of

5:56them, but if boss, if that's what you

5:58want to do, I'm with you. You know,

6:01that's always the the excuse at the end,

6:03you know. So, I went into this and he

6:06concluded, I think pretty quickly, this

6:09is not going well. this is not going

6:11where I want it to go. He became very

6:13concerned about the financial markets.

6:16He sees himself as rising or falling in

6:19the polls and as president in terms of

6:22how the stock market is doing, how the

6:24financial position is developing for the

6:26United States, whether or not the

6:28economy is strong. And he's talked about

6:30that and talked about it and convinced

6:32everybody that everything is great, the

6:34economy is strong, and oh, by the way,

6:36this war is going to end soon. It's

6:38going to end soon. it's going to end

6:40soon. We heard that 39 40 times.

6:43I finally discovered that the only way

6:45he could end it is to end it. He

6:48couldn't talk his way out of it. There

6:50was no alternative to that and there was

6:52not going to be a military solution. And

6:54the notion of using a nuclear weapon, I

6:56again, my impression from him wants

6:59nothing to do with it. So that was off

7:02the table. But he still has a problem.

7:04The problem is called what do I do with

7:06the Israelis? How do I present this?

7:09What do I tell them? And I'm sure he had

7:11some very, very difficult conversations

7:13with Netanyahu.

7:15And I'm also sure he's made it clear

7:17what he doesn't want them to do, which

7:18is he doesn't want them to to go nuclear

7:21under any circumstances.

7:24Now, he's in a in a great position in

7:27one sense. He has demonstrated to the

7:29American people that he indeed is a man

7:31of courage. If you don't think it takes

7:34a great deal of courage for a president

7:35of the United States to stand up and

7:37say, "Whoops, I'm stopping.

7:41This has not worked. We're doing

7:43something else." Now, that may not sound

7:45like an apology to you. But let me tell

7:48you something. That's an apology. That's

7:51a statement of fact. And he's made it

7:54one clear. It doesn't matter how many

7:55times I bomb these people, it's not

7:56going to work. You want me to go back

7:58and bomb? Forget it. It's a waste of

8:00time. Now, that's the businessman

8:02talking. You know, I either walk away

8:05from the table or I cut a deal. One of

8:08the two has to happen. If I walk, all

8:10hell breaks loose. Who knows where it

8:12goes? Who knows what will happen? So,

8:14I've got to bring this to closure. And I

8:17think that's really what he's trying to

8:19do. Now, keep in mind, all we have is

8:21anou.

8:22And that is really a rough framework.

8:24It's got lots of good points in it. And

8:26a [clears throat] lot of those points

8:28are very comfortable for President

8:30Trump. And I'm what I'm saying is, for

8:32instance, it says we will not meddle in

8:35your internal affairs. Well, that has

8:37always been Donald Trump's private

8:39assessment of what we ought not to do.

8:42This is a man that said, "We've been too

8:44involved in too many other people's

8:45problems and countries." He also feels

8:48strongly that most of our forces should

8:49return home. The Cold War really is

8:52over. We don't need to be in all of

8:55these places. So this is this is the the

8:57Donald Trump from an instinctual gut

9:00check. That's the way he is. And I think

9:03he then was probably shown I can't prove

9:06it, but I think he was probably shown

9:08a lot of information that he had not

9:10seen. And that information included

9:13atrocious acts by the Israelis against

9:17people in Gaza, in Lebanon, around the

9:20world, across the Middle East. And I

9:22think he finally said, "This this has

9:23got to stop." Now, I don't think he'll

9:26ever come out and say exactly what I

9:28just did, but you got a glimpse of it

9:30when he said, "Why do you have to

9:32destroy an an entire apartment building

9:35full of people when there's only one

9:36person in there you're trying to

9:37eliminate?"

9:38>> Yeah.

9:39>> Well, that that's the tip of a very

9:41large iceberg. And when I heard that and

9:44several people I know, we all went,

9:47"When did you finally wake up?" You

9:49know?

9:49>> Yeah. Exactly. Exactly. Congratulations.

9:52Give that man a cutie doll. You won.

9:55Good. Good job. So, a lot of people are

9:57now, I don't know if you've heard this

9:58yet, but you will, are calling for his

10:00resignation

10:02because he lost a war. Well, here's a

10:06big flash of the obvious. We've lost

10:08wars before. We have. We've never had

10:11this perfect victory streak. No great

10:14power ever does. But you have to have

10:17the common sense to understand what you

10:19can and cannot accomplish. And when it

10:21doesn't work, you have to cut your

10:23losses and move on. I think he

10:25understands that. I think that's what

10:26he's trying to do. But now he has new

10:29problems at home. Huge problems. And he

10:31and remember who owns the media? Who

10:34dominates the financial markets? Who

10:37who's out there that could really hurt

10:39him? Who could support his opponents?

10:41And remember, you have all these

10:42senators and congressmen. This is sort

10:44of a convention of hypocrites who are

10:48now throwing rocks at him, saying, "Oh,

10:50you, you know, you must support Israel.

10:52Oh, by the way, send the check to this

10:54PO box." Uh, they're out there. They

10:58want to keep getting their money. So,

10:59they're going to go down at least to

11:01this point with the good ship Israel if

11:03it's necessary as far as they're

11:05concerned. In reality, what they should

11:08be saying, and I hope that President

11:10Trump will say this, is BB,

11:14we gave it our best shot. It didn't

11:16work. The number one priority right now

11:20is not greater Israel. The number one

11:23priority is the preservation of the

11:26Israeli state, the survival of the

11:29Israeli people. That's where we need to

11:31focus now. See, nobody wants to go

11:34there. But that's exactly where we are.

11:36We have in fact reached that point. Now,

11:38why do I say that? Because anyone who

11:41has any appreciation for the nature of

11:43international relations, which is like

11:45the Pacific Ocean. It's huge. It's

11:48always changing. There are storms that

11:50come and go. It's never permanent. But

11:52it's very easy to see where the storm is

11:54headed right now. The two powers that

11:57are going to emerge from this war and

12:00will dominate the Middle East for

12:02decades to come, maybe lawyer longer.

12:05One is Iran. There's no question about

12:07that. And the other is Turkey.

12:11>> They are not the same. They are very

12:13different people, very different states

12:15with very different histories. And I

12:17spent many years of my life visiting

12:19Israel back and forth. And I tried to

12:22tell them on more than one occasion,

12:23you're you're barking up the wrong tree,

12:26as we say. Your existential threat is

12:29not Iran.

12:31Iran, Persian civilization, the Persian

12:34world, and Persian culture. Those things

12:36aren't your enemy.

12:38You've got a real problem further north

12:40and to the east, and that's called the

12:43Turks. They're very different. This is a

12:45resolutely marshall people. People of

12:48great courage who are innately inclined

12:53to fight. These are natural soldiers. I

12:56mean, I've seen them and I had the good

12:59good fortune to work with the Turks. I

13:01think the world of them militarily. They

13:03are great people, but you do not want to

13:05go to war with them.

13:08In Iran, you're dealing with someone who

13:10is rational. Whether they like to think

13:12so or not in Israel, they are. They will

13:16coexist with you. You can talk to them

13:20and do business. But if you provoke the

13:22Turks, it's a fight to the finish. I

13:25don't think President Trump wants to be

13:27involved in that. And I don't want to be

13:30involved in that. And the Turks are

13:32certainly

13:33not looking for the fight at this point.

13:36But if you don't think they're ready to

13:37go, you're making a very, very serious

13:40mistake. And who dominated the the

13:42Arabian Peninsula, who dominated the

13:45Levant, who dominated all the way to

13:47Egypt and into North Africa for

13:49centuries? We know who. Now, do they

13:53want to do that again? That's something

13:54that's beyond my knowledge. I I can't

13:57comment on that. What I'm trying to get

13:59people to understand in the West, forget

14:02NATO. That's dead on arrival. It's It's

14:05a dead man walking proposition. It's

14:08meaningless. that's going to go away

14:10along at some point with this thing

14:12called the EU. The Turks are on the

14:14rise. The Iranians are on the rise.

14:17India, despite all of its problems, is

14:19rising and it's got some serious

14:21problems right now as a result of the

14:23Persian Gulf closure. China is rising.

14:26Russia is rising. These are the great

14:29nations, the great powers, the great

14:31peoples of the ancient and medieval

14:34worlds. In other words, if I were to, if

14:36you and I stepped into the time machine

14:38and went back to the year, 150, what

14:40would we find? We'd find little Europe

14:43up here, a group of states killing each

14:45other. And no one else gives a damn

14:47because it doesn't matter. And

14:50everything else in the world on a

14:52different track. And it took 1492,

14:56Christopher Columbus, the discovery of

14:58the Western Hemisphere to change all of

14:59that because it changed the terms of

15:02trade. It opened up wealth to Europe

15:04that it otherwise wouldn't have.

15:06Technology came online and the Europeans

15:09grasped for it. Had a knack for it, had

15:11a talent for it and developed it faster,

15:14better than everybody else. Well, that

15:17technology has proliferated. Things have

15:19changed. Other people in other parts of

15:21the world now can do everything we can

15:23do. So, the world is changing and we

15:26have not wanted to change with it. What

15:29this war demonstrates is we must change.

15:33The world where we could sail in or fly

15:35in and bully people in submission is

15:38gone.

15:40What the Iranians have done, the Swedes

15:42could do. Hell, you know, the people in

15:45Nicaragua could do it. It's a matter of

15:48linking space-based and terrestrial uh

15:52persistent surveillance, intelligence

15:54surveillance, reconnaissance with all

15:56sorts of standoff attack weapons,

16:01ballistic missiles,

16:03unmanned systems of all kinds, cruise

16:05missiles, you name it. It's called ISR-

16:09strike. It's a complex that is built up.

16:14Israel can build that very very quickly

16:17and it will sit there and be impregnable

16:19for all intents and purposes once it has

16:21it. And that's true for everybody who

16:23invests in it. This is a different

16:25world. So you can't just run around and

16:27and push in the front door, march in

16:30with a few troops and tanks and tell

16:32everybody to get in line. It's over. It

16:34needs to be over. That was not

16:36necessarily a good world, Mario. And I

16:40think that's bound up with what's

16:41happened in the Persian Gulf. In other

16:43words, this is about more than the

16:45United States and Iran. It's about more

16:48than Iran and Israel. It's about

16:50fundamental change all over the planet.

16:53I think it can be good, but there are

16:56people out out there right now in the

16:58United States and they want to stop it.

17:00They want to reset it to the to

17:03backwards.

17:04You know, that's the problem. Oh, no.

17:06The answer is go back in and bomb some

17:09more. The answer is do more damage, kill

17:12more people. This can't be allowed to

17:15happen. You know, when the Romans lost a

17:18major battle to the Germanic tribes in 9

17:20AD,

17:22they turned around and said, you know, I

17:24don't think we need to cross the Rine

17:26anymore. We've come far enough. And they

17:30backed off. When the Romans lost uh

17:33armies to the Persians,

17:36they turned around and said, "Well, I

17:38guess we've come far enough and we they

17:40backed off." In other words, they set

17:42limits. We have to have limits, too. And

17:45I think limits could be a good thing.

17:47>> So, the the Iran war could be the the

17:50Suez Canal crisis for um for the US,

17:54similar to what the UK and France had

17:56back then in the ' 50s. uh except that

17:58uh Britain was a great power because of

18:01its empire.

18:03Uh what do you have in the British

18:05Isles? I mean, I like the girls, but I

18:08mean, there's not much there. Okay. I

18:11mean, how do you get rich in the British

18:13Isles? Fish for herring. Uh what are you

18:16what are you going to do? Uh

18:18[clears throat] they built an empire.

18:20The genius, the British genius was thing

18:23was simply the Bank of England. It was

18:25the fleet. all of these things. They

18:28lost all of it because they had no

18:30empire. If if you've been to the United

18:33States, you see the United States from

18:35the Atlantic to the Pacific is our

18:37empire. We don't need anything else. We

18:40don't need to be anywhere else. And see,

18:43that's something Donald Trump has always

18:46understood.

18:48>> That's an interesting point. Fish for

18:50Harry. [laughter]

18:51I'm going to use that.

18:53>> Hey, listen. I like Harry. My friends in

18:54Nor will be angry with me, but I like

18:56that. [laughter]

18:58>> Um, just on the before we go back to uh

19:01I wrote a note on somewhere the the

19:03about Trump just waking up now when it

19:04comes to Israel. I want to go back to

19:06that. One quick question on Turkey. I

19:08did see they they've announced um I knew

19:10I saw it. I just checked it now. They've

19:11announced a fifth generation fighter jet

19:13this year. They've announced they've

19:15they've um announced a few drones

19:17they've developed as well. How how

19:19effective or how powerful is their

19:21military at the moment?

19:24I would rate it in the [clears throat]

19:26certainly in the top five in the world.

19:28>> Okay. Well,

19:29>> and remember that it's a mistake to look

19:32exclusively at uh technology and and

19:35firepower. Those things are immensely

19:37important. You have to look at the human

19:38material.

19:40>> The Turk is very tough soldier.

19:43You know, you you talk about the

19:44Koreans, whether it's North or South,

19:46the Korean is a very tough soldier.

19:49>> You start stacking up these various

19:51peoples next to each other. go back and

19:53look at their history for hundreds of

19:54years. You know, you're dealing with

19:56different kinds of people. And some

19:58people make excellent soldiers. Not

20:00everybody does. That's one of the

20:02reasons many people like me were happy

20:04to see the draft go away because you

20:06were bringing in too many people that

20:08were never going to be good soldiers

20:09anyway. It was better to have the people

20:10that wanted to be soldiers. And the

20:13Turks, they have a song they sing at

20:15every funeral for a for a Turkish

20:17soldier. Every Turk is a soldier is what

20:20it's called.

20:21I'm just seeing

20:23I spent a lot of time in Turkey, by the

20:25way. About a year, maybe a year and a

20:27half, maybe two years of my life in

20:28Turkey. So, I know the place well. Um,

20:31you said something at the beginning, you

20:33said Trump, so when you saw the

20:35statements he made about Israel, you

20:37know, and not every time you shoot down

20:39two drones, you have to to to to level a

20:41building. And you were shocked and

20:43you're like, he just woke up. Is it

20:45possible he woke up about the atrocities

20:48happening in the region, what Israel is

20:49doing a while ago, but he only now he

20:53felt the necessity or the guts to speak

20:55out, whether it's out of necessity

20:57because he has to get out of the Iran

20:59war before the petroleum reserves uh

21:01empty out and the economy begins to have

21:03serious problems. So out of necessity or

21:06just kind of had enough for some other

21:09reason, political reason on why he kind

21:12of made that flip, him, JD Vance and all

21:14the others. Even Senator Graham praised

21:16the MOU, but I think that's more

21:18strategic than anything. I don't think

21:19it means much.

21:21>> I stopped listening to him a long time

21:22ago. [laughter]

21:23>> I don't blame you.

21:24>> Senator Kennedy from Louisiana,

21:27uh, I thought was entertaining. I I

21:29don't consider him to be an especially

21:31brilliant foreign anal foreign policy

21:33analyst but he said uh let's give peace

21:37a chance. What I think people have

21:39figured out is look this is a waste of

21:42time. You know we we were in the wrong

21:44place at the wrong time with the wrong

21:46force structure fighting the wrong war

21:49with the wrong people. Didn't make any

21:51difference what we did. We were not

21:52going to be successful. Uh I think we

21:55were harming ourselves. I think the our

21:57financial system is already very

22:00fragile. You know, there are two views

22:02of this. I was listening to somebody who

22:03said, well, there's this this facade,

22:06the economic facade based on the

22:08financialization of our economy. And

22:10then you look at the real economy. In

22:12other words, what do we produce, who

22:13works, who doesn't, and so forth. The

22:15real economy is on life support. The

22:18financialized economy is the casino

22:20called the stock market.

22:22>> Uh that looks great. I think President

22:25Trump got a glimpse of that. I think

22:27people said, "Don't you realize what's

22:30happened to our friends? Look at the

22:32impact of this on Japan, on Malaysia, on

22:35Indonesia, on Vietnam. Look at all of

22:37these people that are suffering. You

22:39know, if we don't stop this, this is

22:41going to get a lot worse." I I don't

22:43know if it was you or someone else who

22:44asked me a few weeks ago, "What happens

22:47if we restart this war?" I said, "Well,

22:49then it'll be 5 to 10 years before we

22:51recover from it in any way, shape, or

22:53form." But I said if we can stop at this

22:55point, in other words, don't restart it,

22:58then we're looking at two or three

22:59years. But of course, it'll never go

23:01back to the way it was. And see, the big

23:03problem the neocons have who who dream

23:05of this world that will only be safe

23:09when US forces occupy all of it. Okay,

23:12that's their that's their dream, which

23:14is really harnessed to make the world

23:16safe for Israel. Okay, got to understand

23:19that. That's the underlying theme.

23:22The truth is [clears throat] the world

23:24doesn't need us. We don't need to be in

23:26all those places. It's a waste of money.

23:28We can do much better without it and we

23:30can go back to doing business. That's

23:32that's what I think Donald Trump

23:33understands. But I think he was shown

23:35the bill in human terms as well as

23:38financial terms and he recognized this

23:41bill is too high. We can't pay it. I'm

23:44not saying the man doesn't have a heart

23:45and there is not even a shred of uh

23:48human compassion in him. I I think there

23:51is, but I think he's also very much a

23:53realist. You can't be in business as

23:55long as he was and not have some

23:57appreciation for knowing when to cut

24:00your losses and go.

24:02>> He sent that the bill he got that he

24:04thought was too high. I think he sent it

24:06to the Gulf right now. They're they're

24:09coughing up most of the bill

24:10unfortunately for them. Well, the the

24:12problem there is uh and I hope that he

24:15gets the support he wants financially,

24:17but we're not going back. You know, it's

24:20just not going to go back to the way it

24:22was for the very simple reason that this

24:25change in technology and warfare makes

24:27it impossible for us to protect them.

24:30That's the real lesson. Whether you're

24:32in China, Taiwan, Korea, doesn't matter

24:35where you are, we can't protect other

24:37people from these kinds of threats.

24:41We saw that with the US bases in the

24:43region. That was a perfect example.

24:46Warfare has changed and strategy needs

24:48to adapt.

24:49>> Exactly. And by the way, assuming that

24:52if the world doesn't have Americans

24:54running all over, it is going to be a

24:56bad place, I think, is a big mistake.

24:59You know, I have a lot of friends that

25:00say, "Don't you understand what you're

25:02talking about? You know, this is the

25:03end." I said, "Well, what happened for

25:06the 5,000 years before we showed up?"

25:09you know, we we have to get get back to

25:12understanding we're part of the world.

25:14We don't exist apart from the rest of it

25:16and the rest of it doesn't exist apart

25:18from us. But

25:20>> whatever.

25:22>> Um, okay. I have an interesting theory

25:25that I've been thinking about for the

25:26last week or so is um if Israel tries to

25:29sabotage the deal by continuing to

25:32strike Lebanon, whether now or in a few

25:34weeks or even in a few months, Iran

25:36retaliates as they have before and Trump

25:38decides to do what he did two weeks ago

25:40and say, "Hey, I have nothing to do with

25:41it, Israel. I'm not going to get get

25:43involved, not even defensively, not not

25:45even intercept Iranian missiles if that

25:47happens." Um first, is it a possibility?

25:50Second, do you think Israel would get

25:52into a war with Iran without American

25:54support?

25:56>> I think I think [clears throat] what you

25:58describe is uh almost already happening.

26:01I mean, the Israelis are shelling uh

26:03from artillery positions

26:06parts of southern Lebanon. I think it's

26:09almost a certainty that they will launch

26:11attacks against whatever they describe

26:13as being Hisbel positions. Hisbah for

26:16them represents what they think is an

26:18existential threat. And the only way

26:20they know how to deal with that is with

26:23force.

26:25They need us uh to assist them with that

26:28operation. They need our munitions. They

26:31need our missiles. They need all sorts

26:33of things, our intelligence, everything

26:35that you can think of.

26:38Will Donald Trump say what you just did?

26:40I think he's going to say, "Look, I've

26:43told you to stop. You need to stop. If

26:46you stop, we can make the world a better

26:48place. if you won't stop, I I can't

26:50support you.

26:52Then Netanyahu gets on the phone and

26:55electrifies the circuits all over

26:58Washington DC, all the think tanks and

27:01all the agents and all the House members

27:04and senators who are on the payroll and

27:06says, "Damn it, go into that man and

27:09tell him that if if he doesn't support

27:11us, you're going to impeach him." Tell

27:13him if he doesn't support us, he's not

27:16going to last in office. I mean, that's

27:18the kind of thing that you're going to

27:19see happen. And we're going to find out

27:22the answer to your question. I mean,

27:24I'll be frank with you at this point. I

27:26am genuinely concerned about the

27:27president's safety more than I ever have

27:29been before.

27:31>> I've been hearing this a lot. We were

27:33talking about Tucker. Tucker told me

27:35that. Marjgerie Taylor Green said that

27:37to me yesterday. Joe Kent said that to

27:39me. Um, Anna Kasparian said that to me

27:41today. And that's just in the last week.

27:44And I've been thinking about it as well.

27:46and and I started doing a deep dive um

27:48talking to people about the Butler

27:50assassination attempt. It's it is wild

27:53how many bizarre things that unanswered

27:56questions still exist there. But yeah,

27:58Joe Kent says it openly. He believes the

28:00president is under juress and he said

28:01that he's been saying that for months.

28:04Um but I agree with you that

28:06wow it's just a difficult thing to

28:08imagine, isn't it? Now there

28:11unfortunately it is and I lived through

28:12President Kennedy's assassination so I

28:14know exactly what it's like. Uh I think

28:18[clears throat]

28:20[sighs and gasps] I I think there are

28:21those around the president who are

28:23sensitive to this. No doubt. And they

28:24will do everything in their power to

28:26protect him. I'm sure of that. But if I

28:28were he, I would check everything. I

28:30would uh think seriously about

28:32appointing new people.

28:34uh he's got to step back and and look

28:36back on the kind of support and advice

28:38he's received from the people around

28:40him. If he received the kind of advice

28:43which I think he's generally gotten is,

28:45"Yeah, boss, go do it. Yeah, boss, we're

28:48with you." This kind of nonsense, those

28:50people are useless. Now, would he listen

28:52to somebody who told him something he

28:54didn't want to hear? I don't know. I

28:56mean, that's hard to know. People in

28:58power usually don't like people to

29:00contradict them. That's because they

29:02think they are in power because they

29:04knew everything. But we know from

29:06history nobody knows everything and you

29:08have to listen to people. Would he

29:11listen to others? We'll see. But I think

29:13he needs to think about new

29:15appointments. It's very important. The

29:17other thing is [clears throat] people

29:19are calling for his resignation in many

29:21cases and I don't think he should resign

29:24until he has brought this to a to an

29:26end. He has to close out this chapter of

29:30American history. That's something he

29:32must do. Uh for him to resign at this

29:35point is ridiculous. He's been at the at

29:38the beginning of this. He should be

29:40there at the end of it. And he should be

29:42the one to steer us out of this mess

29:44once and for all. Now, after that, if

29:47people are calling for his resignation,

29:49that's legitimate. That's obviously a

29:52decision he has to make. But right now,

29:54I don't support that. Right now, my

29:57greatest fear is not the resignation at

29:59this point. It's it's the assassination.

30:03I have no special intelligence, no

30:05special information of any kind to

30:08support that concern. It's just the way

30:11I feel about it. [sighs]

30:16H

30:16>> how um by the way, I didn't know you

30:19were 16 years old when John F. Kennedy

30:21was assassinated. Do you remember that

30:23that time? Well,

30:24>> I wasn't 16 years old. Uh that's 1963. I

30:28was 10.

30:30>> Oh, it was a quick chat GPT check during

30:33the interview. You were

30:34>> ah artificial intelligence. You can't

30:36depend on it.

30:37>> I tried I tried I tried to seem smart

30:39and pretend that I'm good with math. Um

30:42but can you can I just I want to I want

30:44to find out more why you're so

30:45concerned.

30:47Just I don't know how to ask it, but

30:50what exactly how would it work behind

30:52the scenes? I understand how the

30:53pressure campaign would work. All the

30:55pundits that support Israel would start

30:57criticizing Trump. You got members of of

30:59Congress starts to threaten threaten to

31:01impeach him, speak negatively about him.

31:04The media starts to criticize him. Those

31:06I understand. How do you think it could

31:08escalate to something more sinister? How

31:11would that work? And I'm asking you to

31:12speculate here.

31:14>> Well, uh, you could start various

31:16criminal investigations into all sorts

31:18of activities that involve members of

31:20his family.

31:22uh those could be launched quickly.

31:25Congress can do that. I'm not saying

31:28he's guilty of anything. I'm simply

31:29saying there are a lot of things that

31:30have been going on and his personal

31:32wealth has grown uh astronomically since

31:35he became president. Whereas during the

31:37first term, as I recollect, he lost

31:40money. Uh during this term, he's

31:43increased his wealth dramatically. And

31:44of course, some of that wealth is really

31:46really belongs to his children who have

31:49been involved in all all sorts of

31:50interesting deals. He's got people

31:52around him who are habitual dealmakers

31:55when it comes to self-enrichment.

31:58These things are problematic and they

32:01can be exploited in unsaavory ways. And

32:05then finally, you have the Epstein

32:07files. And remember, he told someone, I

32:10can't remember who said it was, it could

32:11have been Pam Bomb Bondi. She wasn't

32:13very uh careful about opening her mouth

32:16on more than one occasion. And I think

32:18she said that he had told her, you know,

32:20a lot of these people in this are my

32:22friends involved in this Epstein file.

32:25And uh that was the excuse that was

32:28given for why he wasn't anxious to

32:31release all of it unredacted.

32:34That could become that could once again

32:36move back into center stage. So there

32:38are a lot of bad things that can be done

32:41in that sense. And those things then

32:44lead to

32:47people that make stupid decisions that

32:49decide that well it's time for him to be

32:51removed.

32:53And sometimes that's calculated and

32:55orchestrated. And sometimes it's the

32:57wandering buffoon you never expected

33:00that shows up. That happened uh to FDR.

33:03He was in Chicago. a man came out of

33:05nowhere, tried to shoot him, blame the

33:07depression on him, and instead shot the

33:10mayor of Chicago, Mayor Surerach. I

33:13mean, you just don't know. There are all

33:15sorts of strange things that can happen,

33:17and people are always in the hunt uh for

33:20someone to blame for whatever it is that

33:23they don't have or haven't achieved.

33:27One thing that was fascinated that I um

33:30that Joe Kent was telling me in our

33:31latest uh conversation is about how the

33:35system works or how the beast works is

33:38and and actually Anna Kasparian was

33:39telling me about it today and she

33:41reminded me of that conversation.

33:42>> Anna Kasparian, you talked to Anna

33:45Kasparian.

33:47>> Well, yeah, you're know her well.

33:49>> No, she she

33:51>> I get a big charge out of Anna. I think

33:53she's very lovely. She's she's a a

33:56bubble of energy. Now, I've chatted to

33:57her a few times, but we were talking

33:59today and we were talking about this

34:01topic. It's something that's really been

34:03eating up my mind for a while. A and um

34:05so what she was explaining is how how

34:09she she was a journalist was explaining

34:10her. Oh, it's actually pretty

34:12fascinating. uh Colonel, she was saying

34:14in Sentcom, she said, "Mari, the head of

34:16Sentcom, the commander of Sentcom

34:18doesn't have as much agency as you'd

34:20expect cuz of how big it is and you've

34:22got all these different departments etc.

34:24and they might act without the

34:26authorization of their commander and

34:28it's and and Joe Ken told me the same

34:30thing in other departments and he's like

34:32Mar you'd be surprised on how the the

34:34elected officials the leaders of these

34:36various organizations

34:39they don't have as much power or

34:40influence or knowledge or decision-m as

34:43you'd expect and that also applies

34:45obviously to the president doesn't have

34:46as much a agency as you'd expect you

34:48know where I'm coming from it's like the

34:50the system you've got all these I don't

34:53know I'm not good at describing it, but

34:55you've just got all these different

34:56individuals within that system that

34:58don't always or don't always report to

34:59who's meant to be boss. Um and now how

35:03that fits into what I'm saying here is

35:05um just the nature of the beast that

35:08this war and I know it's been happening

35:10for a few years but this will kind of

35:11further exposed

35:14um

35:16how yeah how little agency the president

35:18has and how many people have too much

35:21influence within this American system.

35:24One that you're very critical of is the

35:26Israeli lobby and Israeli influence and

35:28Netanyahu's influence. But it's

35:30something that I'm, you know, finding

35:32out more and more about in the last

35:34couple of years. And it's uh it is

35:36worrying. It's very very concerning to

35:38see this.

35:39>> Well, you also have the pharmaceutical

35:41industries,

35:42>> military-industrial complex,

35:44>> you know, the agricultural lobby is is

35:47enormous. And all of these things

35:49operate as breaks on policym. They can

35:52they can let something go through or

35:54they can stop it dead in its tracks. But

35:56there's something even more important.

35:58You know, you've got the Senate that has

36:00to confirm people. How many lobbyists

36:03does it take to go to a senator and say,

36:05"We don't like that man."

36:08And you say, "Well, why? What's wrong

36:09with him?" "Well, we don't like him. He

36:11doesn't support us. So, if you want to

36:13continue to have support from us, you

36:14better not vote for him."

36:15[clears throat]

36:16Or, "We don't like that lady. We don't

36:18like that woman."

36:20Uh so you you the probability of getting

36:24very many really highc caliber people of

36:28character and intelligence into key

36:31positions is low.

36:35Now can that change? Of course it can

36:37change. When does it change? It changes

36:39in times of national emergency.

36:43People that you never heard of rise up

36:45in wartime.

36:47Everybody says, "Well, what where where

36:49was that general for 25 years? Why

36:52hadn't everybody ever heard of him?"

36:53Because nobody liked him. Nobody wanted

36:55him. He was a retired colonel. They were

36:58starting to boot him out the door and

36:59the 30 years were coming up and all of a

37:01sudden the war broke out and they

37:02decided they needed him. You have the

37:04same thing in the banking industry. You

37:07go into every industry, you have this

37:09preference for someone they call a safe

37:11pair of hands. Well, we we like him. Uh,

37:15he's not going to change anything.

37:18He keeps the money flowing. Is he going

37:20to support our program? Do you

37:22understand what I'm saying? That's why

37:24we elect people and then we expect

37:26miracles. And every president has about

37:29a year, maybe if he's lucky, 18 months.

37:34And in that time space, if he's smart,

37:37he can accomplish maybe three things on

37:39a list of 10. and then he loses steam

37:44because he's got to start running for

37:45reelection. And if they don't think he's

37:47going to get reelected, well, they don't

37:49care about him anymore.

37:51Now, this this is not unique to

37:53republics. I know we talk about this,

37:55you know, about republics. This is a

37:57weakness of democracy, but

37:59>> yeah,

38:00>> if you study authoritarian states, you

38:02see this sort of thing all the time.

38:04When you go to a totalitarian state like

38:07Russia uh or China, it's different.

38:11uh you know when you have someone like

38:13Stalin who presides over you and before

38:16World War II is probably responsible for

38:18the deaths of maybe 25 or 30 million

38:21people on his own and he has the power

38:24of life and death over anyone. Uh he has

38:28a lot of power. He can get a lot done if

38:31he decides I want this tank. I want this

38:34aircraft. I want this bridge. I want

38:36this dam. I want this highway. It

38:38happens.

38:40But otherwise, no matter who you are,

38:43you have real constraints and and that's

38:45by design. We like that. We we didn't

38:48like the uh authoritarian rule of George

38:51III, although in retrospect, I would

38:53argue it was pretty modest, but

38:55nevertheless, the people at the time had

38:57fed were fed up with it. And a lot of

38:59people didn't like being taxed. If they

39:01looked at the taxes today, the people

39:03that ran the revolution then would

39:05probably look at us and say, "You're

39:06crazy." You know what? Whatever. But but

39:09I I just think the this is the nature of

39:11most political systems. The people that

39:14do well in them are people who can wheel

39:16and deal, who can compromise. And that's

39:18very distasteful to someone with

39:19principles, but it's unavoidable if you

39:21want to get something done.

39:24And on the um the the example that Anna

39:28gave me, she was referencing a

39:29journalist about even within Sentcom,

39:32you know, people like Brad Cooper don't

39:34have as much agency as you'd expect. Is

39:37it really that bloated or that's an

39:40overexaggeration?

39:41>> Well, first of all, you're now you're

39:43getting into something that I've written

39:44books about and that is the problem with

39:46the service bureaucracy and service

39:48chiefs. If you are in a regional unified

39:51command, as Bradley Cooper is, who are

39:53you dependent upon for your forces?

39:56You're dependent upon the Navy, the Air

39:58Force, the Army, and the Marine Corps.

40:00They give you what they want to send

40:02you.

40:04You don't necessarily get everything you

40:06ask for.

40:08There are always limited quantities and

40:11they decide how much you will or won't

40:13get. And if you can't get what you want,

40:15you go over them. And that means you go

40:18to the president and you say, "Mr.

40:20President, you're the

40:20commander-in-chief. I need this. This is

40:22vital." Well, the president can make

40:24that happen.

40:26And then you alienate the service chiefs

40:29who will hate you forever and will work

40:31hard to harm you in any way they can. I

40:33mean, this is the nature of the beast.

40:35And remember, all of the people that

40:36hold all of those positions, they were

40:39confirmed by the Senate.

40:42And the Senate doesn't like anybody

40:43who's prepared to do anything. They want

40:46people who are going to sit there and

40:48say, "Yes, sir. I agree with you. I'm

40:51going to go along."

40:55Uh, Colonel, uh, pleasure to speak to

40:57you again. I I, uh, which book do you

40:59recommend that talks about these things

41:01in in the most most in depth. I think

41:03the last one I put out is really worth

41:06reading, you know, uh, margin of

41:08victory, five battles that change the

41:11face of war, modern warfare, because in

41:14the, uh, certainly in the concluding

41:16chapter and in the beginning, I I go

41:19over these these problems that are very

41:21significant and try to make the point

41:23that that sometimes we just have

41:25unrealistic expectations of what anybody

41:28can do in government on the average day.

41:31And we tend to focus on well look what

41:32Marshall did. But Marshall Marshall came

41:36to power at the outset of a war and he

41:38received an executive order from the

41:40president of the United States that gave

41:42him virtual authority over the entire

41:44war department. So he could do pretty

41:46much what he wanted. Now he didn't do

41:49everything he wanted. He was a smart man

41:51and he kept people informed and he

41:53talked to people. He didn't blindside

41:54them. You know, you have to be smart

41:56about how you do these things. the more

41:59power you have, the less often you want

42:02to have to use it. Does that make sense?

42:04>> Yeah. Yeah.

42:04>> And he was very smart about that. But uh

42:07no, I think margin of victory would

42:09interest people. And it goes through a

42:10series of battles in different parts of

42:12the world at different times in the 20th

42:14century. And you lots of examples in

42:17there of where people tried to do what

42:18made sense, but they just couldn't. And

42:21they were prisoners of other people's

42:22decisions. There's no question about it.

42:25>> History rhymes.

42:29Colonel, always a pleasure. Thank you so

42:30much for your time.

42:31>> Thank you. By the way, my Substack's got

42:33a big piece coming out next week that's

42:35going to discuss a lot of these things

42:36about the tectonic shift in in the

42:39continental plates of power in the

42:41international system. And we'll talk

42:43about

42:43>> what we started talking about.

42:45>> Yeah, that's uh McGregor warrior

42:48diplomacy substack. And it's going to

42:50talk about yes, we have lost significant

42:53influence and power and why this has

42:56happened. And yes, Iran has won the war.

42:59They control the straight. We don't. And

43:02they are invincible. They can be,

43:06what's the right word? Humbled, but not

43:08broken.

43:10And so,

43:10>> when's that piece coming out? That'll be

43:12out probably uh Sunday or

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