The Man That Makes Millionaires: Turn $0 to $10k With This Step By Step Formula! Alex Hormozi

0:00if you want to make more money you might

0:02want to consider doing this so number

0:03one is hold that thought for just a

0:05second because the thing that comes

0:07before that is this grow of yours oh God

0:10this is the entrepreneur life cycle and

0:12there are six stages now the vast

0:13majority of people get stuck on stage

0:15three and I've made some of the biggest

0:16career mistakes at this point and you

0:18end up living the same 6 months for 20

0:19straight years suffering until you learn

0:22how to break free from it I want to go

0:23through the whole thing this is going to

0:25be awesome Alex horos is the master of

0:28business strategy an autist in tring

0:30companies into the millions and a

0:31leading voice in how to craft your way

0:33to success he's an entrepreneurial

0:35Powerhouse whether you're starting out

0:36or want to go from 1 million to 10

0:38million there are certain behaviors and

0:39actions that will increase the

0:40likelihood of success that we're going

0:41to go through but here's the really hard

0:43truth that a lot of people don't like

0:44talking about entrepreneurs must be

0:46willing to make impossible choices have

0:48the courage to be willing to be wrong

0:49have Shame by failing at things in front

0:51of people whose opinions they care about

0:53and that fear keeps people stuck in a

0:55job and a life they don't want for years

0:57and that was my path I had a white

0:58collar job condo overlooking the city

1:00everything's according to plan and I

1:02remember thinking like I didn't want to

1:04be alive cuz I was so afraid but once

1:07you get over the fear it unleashes this

1:09whole new realm of possibility of being

1:11able to do what you want and that is

1:13when you can learn the real game of

1:14Entrepreneurship such as knowing that

1:16business ideas typically come from one

1:17of three piece and you only need one of

1:19those three and then there's the four RS

1:20for customer success how to learn new

1:22skills quickly how to stand out in a

1:24competitive market the winning strategy

1:25for 2025 and so much more so where

1:28should I start

1:31I have been forced into a bet with my

1:34team we're about to hit 10 million

1:35subscribers on YouTube which is our

1:37biggest Milestone ever thanks to all of

1:38you and we want to have a massive party

1:40for the people that have worked on this

1:42show for years behind the scenes so they

1:44said to me Steve for every new

1:46subscriber we get in the next 30 days

1:47can $1 be given to our celebration fund

1:52for the entire team and I've agreed to

1:54the bet so if you want to say thank you

1:55to the team behind the scenes at D of

1:57here all you've got to do is hit the

1:58Subscribe button actually this is the

2:00first time I'm going to tell you not to

2:02subscribe because it might end up

2:04costing me an

2:07[Applause]

2:12[Music]

2:18awful Alex if someone's just clicked on

2:21this conversation and they're

2:22considering listening for the next

2:24couple of hours based on everything that

2:26you do for the millions of entrepreneurs

2:28that follow you that read your books can

2:31you tell me exactly why you believe they

2:33should stay and listen and who should

2:35stay and listen at

2:37acquisition. we scale

2:40businesses the content that I generate

2:42that we put out conversations like this

2:45helps people who are going from Z to one

2:47just getting off the ground to helping

2:49people go from 1 million to 10 million

2:51um to helping the entrepreneurs going

2:53from 10 to 100 either get there or exit

2:56along the way and there are Frameworks

2:59that cross all three of those that I

3:02consider both deep and wide um that help

3:05any business navigate whatever strategic

3:07decision is in front of them to get The

3:09Highest Potential return for their time

3:11and so if you're listening or watching

3:14then if one of those Frameworks applies

3:17immediately to your business and allows

3:18you to pull five years forward in your

3:20career I would say that's a pretty good

3:22return on time for the people that are

3:24at zero yeah what is it that they're

3:26typically coming to you to help them

3:29with so if you were one of them yeah

3:31what is it that they want from Alex hzi

3:34I think it's um there's what they think

3:37they want and what they actually need um

3:39which are two different things and so I

3:42think what they think they want is uh

3:45some tactic that's going to immediately

3:47help them start a business um what they

3:51typically actually need is um the

3:55courage to be willing to be wrong and to

3:59be willing to have Shame by failing at

4:03things in front of people whose opinions

4:06they care about and I think that's like

4:08if I re rewind the clock for me it was

4:11probably one of the hardest things that

4:12I had to get over and so I think that's

4:14why maybe my message resonates with a

4:15lot of people is because it was so hard

4:17for me um to get over and what's

4:19interesting is basically anybody who's

4:21listening the harder it is for you to

4:23break free of whatever kind of mental

4:25prison you've made for yourself whether

4:27that's real or just in in your head

4:30the more compelling your story will be

4:32when you break through it um because it

4:34will resonate with even more people uh

4:37for the people that it was easy that

4:39their story doesn't have doesn't have a

4:40lot like I was immediately an

4:42entrepreneur like I wasn't like that I

4:43had a job when I was in high school I

4:45had a job immediately out of college

4:46some people were like I was selling

4:48lemonade out of the back of my you know

4:49thing when I was 13 I didn't do any of

4:51that like I School failed me I actually

4:53was pretty good at school uh I didn't

4:55have any of those issues you know what I

4:56mean and so I had a pretty clear career

4:58path and so I had many would consider

5:00like I had a real opportunity cost so I

5:03had a white collar job and I had uh a

5:05GMAT score above Harvard's mid score and

5:08so I had a a really clear path of what

5:10my life would could look like in the

5:12next 20 30 years and it was fairly well

5:14defined like I'll go to Harvard or

5:16Stanford or one of the top Business

5:18Schools and then I will either go back

5:19into management consulting or I'll go

5:20into Investment Banking and then

5:21eventually end up in private Equity um

5:23and that would be the path right and

5:25then all the flowers would be set at my

5:27feet and you know everyone would say we

5:29approve of you you're an excellent

5:31person but when I saw the people who

5:32were 20 years ahead of me I really

5:35didn't want their life and then it

5:36started making me look at my life and I

5:38was like I don't even know if I really

5:38want my life um and so the the big

5:42decisions that I've made in my life

5:44unfortunately um have almost always come

5:46at the at the the doorstep of a parent

5:50death um and I think maybe in some ways

5:52that makes me a coward uh for having

5:55needed death to make decisions and so

5:59operational realizing that has been

6:01something that has helped me move faster

6:03to make decisions that I know I need to

6:05make but don't and so like the first big

6:08kind of like what felt like a death

6:10decision was um I was a consultant 22 is

6:14years old I had a paid for you know

6:16condo that I bought uh overlooking the

6:18city and I remember thinking like I

6:21really hope I don't wake up tomorrow and

6:24that and I don't mean that to be

6:26melodramatic it just I just for a period

6:28of time I just always just like hooped

6:30every night I was like I just really up

6:31I don't wake up tomorrow like I just

6:32don't want to do this and what was

6:35difficult about that was that at that

6:36time was when my father was most proud

6:38of me uh because I was doing everything

6:41that was according to plan you know he

6:43could talk like his son who graduated in

6:45three years from Vanderbilt had the had

6:47the good job like everything was we're

6:48following the plan um and it was upon

6:54realizing that my ultimate expression of

6:57living out his dream was me feeling like

7:00I didn't want to be alive and so in and

7:03it took me time to get to that point to

7:06even articulate that because obviously

7:07you never want to kind of like admit

7:08failure of like I have really messed

7:11something up here um but I was living my

7:14life to win someone else's game and when

7:17I realized that I realized that one of

7:20our dreams had to die either his or mine

7:23and when I realized that his dream must

7:27die in order for mine to live was a a

7:30statement that I kind of crystallized

7:32when I was at that point in my life like

7:34I had to keep repeating that like his

7:35dream has to die in order for mine to

7:36live and so to put this in perspective

7:39of like how afraid of my father's

7:41judgment I was I left the state and

7:44drove across the country halfway through

7:45before calling him to tell him that I

7:46was gone and so I I bring this up

7:49because I don't try I'm not trying to be

7:50dramatic here but I'm saying that if you

7:52feel a lot of pressure I get it like I

7:54tried to leave the job that I was at to

7:56pursue just literally anything that

7:58wasn't that just I wanted to start a

8:00business at some point I didn't know how

8:02I was going to do it I just knew that

8:03what I was doing was not the path I

8:04wanted to be on and everybody around me

8:07wanted me to be on that path and so I

8:09went to go be like hey I'm thinking

8:11about doing something else and you know

8:12it would always be that ah you know

8:14don't later later like everything's good

8:16later you know and um I remember when I

8:18called my dad and I told him that he

8:21said understand why don't you come like

8:23come home well uh well I didn't tell him

8:25that I was I was gone yet like I said

8:27hey I want you know I want to go pursue

8:28this Fitness thing

8:30um he said cool come over for lunch

8:31we'll talk about it you know and and he

8:33and I was like I'm I'm already gone and

8:36then obviously his tone changed a lot um

8:39and um and you know our relationship

8:40struggled for you know years after that

8:42and I I also bring that up because

8:45sometimes there's this illusion that

8:47like you know you get on the on the

8:49Oscar stage or whatever it is and you're

8:50like hey I just want to think you know

8:51my mom my dad my friends for always

8:53supporting me and um I can't say that

8:57and I wish I could and you might not not

8:59be able to say that either and I also

9:01don't think that's a reason not to do it

9:04and so um we did struggle for years

9:06after that to kind of like because I was

9:08basically living as what was once his

9:10prodical son uh goes and takes a minimum

9:13wage job as a personal trainer at a gym

9:15uh like you know cleaning floors and

9:17stuff to learn just to learn the gym

9:19business um but that was ultimately like

9:21how I broke free literally you know

9:23physically uh leaving the area and you

9:26know mentally but I think that I had to

9:28accept that

9:30there was a there was a timeline where

9:31my father would never talk to me again

9:33and I had to be okay with that um to

9:35pursue what I wanted and I think that

9:37when you ask the original question what

9:38are the people from 0 to one really

9:39looking for I read tons of business

9:42books at that time but I couldn't use

9:44any of them because I was so afraid and

9:47what's crazy is that like I think about

9:48it now in retrospect and it's like it's

9:51crazy how large the perceived monsters

9:54can appear and Leila has this quote that

9:57I love but it's um is a mile wide an

10:00inch deep and so you look at it it looks

10:03like this ocean and then you take the

10:04first step and you realize you don't

10:05drown because it's like oh there's

10:06ground underneath of this right there's

10:08other people who are more on my path and

10:11the friends you lose you gain new

10:12friends right and so um that

10:16fear was the hardest decision that I've

10:19had to overcome in my entrepreneural

10:20career and I think of all the of all the

10:22the split paths in my life that was the

10:25one that if I had many timelines or many

10:27universes that existed that was is

10:29probably the one that is the most likely

10:30that I would not have parted from so I

10:33think in like 90% of universes that Alex

10:35rosi exists I'm just a consultant

10:37somewhere and so um I would encourage

10:40you if you do feel that you're not going

10:42to die like you won't die and you might

10:46just

10:47live it's so interesting because I think

10:50everything you've said is just

10:51absolutely spot on but you're right in

10:53way you say that if you'd asked an

10:55audience member listening now why they

10:57haven't started yet they would say fear

11:00they would say I haven't got the X I

11:02haven't got the Y but actually it is

11:03such an emotional thing and we don't

11:05talk about that enough because

11:06uncertainty is humans seem to be

11:08allergic to uncertainty and they'd

11:10rather the certain misery of their

11:11current situation typically than

11:14uncertainty and I think um and I and I

11:17used what I consider a very non-p

11:19palatable word of coward purposefully

11:22because no one wants to say they're

11:24afraid because if you say you're afraid

11:26then it means you're a coward and I

11:28think that it only means coward if you

11:30don't if you allow that fear to change

11:34your behavior in an aversive way as in

11:37it not towards what you want and so you

11:41know the inverse of that many people

11:42have heard it Courage is not acting um

11:44without fear but despite fear um and I

11:46think that um when you

11:49act when you allow fear to change your

11:53behavior the wrong way that is when you

11:55can give yourself that title of coward

11:57and I think that that is a title that I

11:59feared my whole life and that label is

12:02almost I'm more afraid of that label

12:04than the label of failure I'd rather be

12:07a failure than a

12:08coward is there a framework for knowing

12:10when to

12:12quit so I think there's the there's like

12:15the math behind it and the math I think

12:16is pretty straightforward so like when

12:18do you quit your business I like you've

12:21saved up three to six months of personal

12:23savings number one number two is that

12:25you have started something because

12:27nowadays in the digital age you can

12:28begin a business on the side that can

12:30generate income and that income um in

12:34the small amount of time that you're not

12:35working uh replaces or at least matches

12:38the existing income you have from your

12:40your current job and you've been able to

12:41do that or demonstrate that income for

12:44like 3 to six months if you do that

12:46that's a very like math way of

12:47approaching it that also is basically

12:49never the reason that people aren't

12:51quitting their job right like that's a

12:53really s like I have I have I have

12:54backlog I've matched my current income

12:57with my part-time work and if I just put

12:59my full-time work I would probably make

13:00more very reasonable but never actually

13:03the reason that people don't do it I was

13:05I was thinking about the two sort of

13:07reasons why someone might quit something

13:09or feel like they want to quit and one

13:10of them is clearly because it's hard and

13:12that's obviously not reason enough to

13:13quit and then there's another one which

13:14you are speaking to there which is it's

13:16not moving me towards a meaningful goal

13:19irrespective of how hard it is like a

13:20marathon you're raising money for a

13:22charity you care about it's hard but you

13:24don't quit yeah and then there's maybe

13:26if you're running a marathon for no

13:27apparent reason you know there was no

13:29charity there was no one watching there

13:31was no like Fitness benefit then that's

13:33a good I guess moment to consider

13:35quitting um my story mimics yours in a

13:38way that I didn't realize I didn't

13:40realize you went through a similar thing

13:41in terms of call the parents

13:43disownership yeah um no real great

13:46option to to flee to but feeling like

13:49the current path that would have led me

13:51to be I don't know business management

13:52student was significantly worse on

13:55balance than taking the risk but I think

13:59maybe a point of Distinction is it

14:00didn't I was so naive that it didn't

14:01feel like a risk yeah so what's really

14:05interesting about that is um the

14:07guarantee and so a lot of times we don't

14:10we don't look at what I call the don't

14:11which is like the the alternate path and

14:14so if I had played out my existing path

14:17I had a guarantee of outcome I didn't

14:19want it was just out a

14:21delay whereas here there's a chance that

14:25I can make it and so one of the final

14:28kind of framework for making the

14:29decision was guaranteed bad chance at

14:33good and I was like well I might as well

14:36take a chance and I I strongly um

14:41encourage thinking about uh playing it

14:44out and so what I mean by that is like I

14:46think

14:47fear exists in the vague not in the

14:51specific and so when you say I'm GNA

14:54quit my job and then what if this

14:56doesn't work I'm GNA failure tons of

14:58fear

14:59if I say I'm going to quit my job and

15:02then I'm going to try and start a

15:04business and if the business doesn't

15:06work I'll probably have a compelling

15:08story that I could tell for business

15:10school if I wanted to to show that I had

15:12some entrepreneurial slant in the

15:14meantime I could use that experience

15:15plus my job experience to probably get

15:17another or maybe even better job in the

15:19meantime and match or or supersede my

15:22existing income and the actual loss

15:24would be maybe the savings that I had

15:26saved up but if I'm younger or I haven't

15:28made as much money as I want then that's

15:30never been the amount of money that

15:31would be material anyways on the grand

15:33scheme of what I would like to make um

15:35and in terms of living situation I will

15:37worst case go back to my parents house

15:40with my tail between my legs or sleep at

15:43a friend's couch because I have enough

15:45people that would be willing to put me

15:46up in a garage if I had to and so it's

15:48like okay so my actual worst case

15:50scenario is just like I have a cool

15:52story and maybe some shame that I is

15:55self-inflicted cuz it's not like no one

15:57else cares really but it's

15:58self-inflicted shame

15:59and maybe a detour or a different story

16:01that I have to tell later on in my

16:04career not as much fear there right but

16:07like the first one like I'll fail

16:08everyone will hate me and I'll die the

16:11first one sounded like it was written by

16:13your like amigdala like the Fierce and

16:15the second one was pure like prefrontal

16:16cortex it was all logic yeah and I'm

16:18wondering you know as you're going into

16:19that decision obviously fear is going to

16:21lead it so of course you're going to go

16:22for option one where you just think

16:23about the downside maybe there's a

16:25practice that allows you to get into

16:27your prefrontal cortex into logic and I

16:29think that's I actually so I think you

16:30nailed it and said it way better than I

16:33did but I think that's I think going

16:34from vague to specific basically

16:37disengages your mdala because it's it

16:40can't reason the logic chain of

16:42causation and causality of what's going

16:43to happen next in a chain of events and

16:46so when you get into the specific of it

16:48all of a sudden you're like okay I'm not

16:51going to be homeless and then shamed and

16:53die um I might live in inferior living

16:57conditions for a short period which by

16:59the way when you're later on in your

17:00life you'll look back and think of as

17:02the good old days cuz I can't believe I

17:03was couch surfing I was pursuing my

17:05dreams right it's it's only like in the

17:07moment that it feels bad when you look

17:09back like even I I find this hilarious

17:11like like how long after you do

17:13something embarrassing is it

17:14funny right like at at some point for

17:17almost all of us with enough time the

17:19shameful experience becomes funny and so

17:22if it is going to become funny

17:23eventually it might as well become funny

17:25now yeah and so it's just like pulling

17:26the time Horizon up but all of that

17:28prefrontal cortex decision making and so

17:31um no but I think that's exact like I

17:33think that that nailed it because when I

17:34thought about this this decision

17:36obviously I had my very you know

17:37emotional statement around like his

17:39dream has to die for mine to live yes

17:41also logic downside risk here I'll have

17:44a story and I can always get my job

17:47back okay and if I can't get that job

17:49back I'll will have other ones that will

17:51be available fine and if I have a

17:53downgrading and some people think that

17:54I'm not as successful as then okay I'll

17:57not stop though and so I think that that

17:59that demystifies a lot of the fears I

18:01think that applies not just for

18:02entrepreneurial fears I think applies

18:03for any fear like I'm going to talk like

18:05I can't tell this person this bad news

18:06all right let's play it out I say

18:08something and then they're going to kill

18:09me probably not so what's going to

18:11happen I'll say these words and then

18:14there they they they'll flip the table

18:16they'll they'll flick me off they'll

18:18maybe just feel hurt and maybe they'll

18:20cry maybe they'll shout okay okay if

18:23they shouted at me what do I do like and

18:24you just kind of play it out and you're

18:25like okay I think I have like most of

18:26these conditions prepared for and then

18:30all of a sudden you can like have those

18:31things what you also said is that in the

18:34face of guaranteed misery any option is

18:36better yeah like it's real you get to

18:39live once yeah so like why would

18:41guaranteed misery be better than any

18:43available option it's delay discounting

18:46that's what's crazy is delay discounting

18:47happens both ways like um so like you

18:50set your alarm for 5:00 a.m. at night

18:52and you're like I'm going to wake up at

18:545: but that's because you're delaying

18:56the pain of waking up and when it's

18:58immediate when I have to quit the job

19:00like I'll quit my job tomorrow for 20

19:02years and so it's just like we always we

19:04we we delay the fact that we're going to

19:06be miserable into the present uh to like

19:09a like we we massively discount what a

19:11whole lifetime of misery would be amen

19:14when you're thinking about what to

19:16pursue so say you've left the job you've

19:18quit the thing when you're thinking

19:19about what to

19:20pursue how much of that is a

19:24decision derived from self-awareness

19:27because you know they'll someone will

19:28look at you now and be like Oh No Alex

19:30did this so I'm going to start a

19:32acquisition. comom you know or they'll

19:34say um I want to I saw Steve Jobs did

19:37that thing with the computers I'm going

19:38to start Apple yeah right or Elon I'm

19:40going to do the spaceships how much do

19:42you have to know thyself to know what to

19:44pursue man this is a really good

19:46question so um there's a tweet that I

19:48love by Andrew Wilkinson which is um

19:51every entrepreneur ever colon here's the

19:54winning number for my lottery ticket and

19:56so it's like every entrepreneur will say

19:59here's the winning lottery ticket but

20:01it's like that game already that drawing

20:04already happened ah okay yeah right and

20:06so like you can't cash that ticket in

20:07it's already done and so people say the

20:10word first principles no one really

20:11knows what it means uh I mean some

20:13people do but the I think far more

20:15people say it than know what it means

20:17and so basically there are foundational

20:19truths of business that that exist and

20:23the conditions of the environment will

20:24change and so you have to apply those

20:27truths to whatever the current condition

20:29is and so that's what I try and tease

20:30out with the books and the stuff that I

20:32that I put out in content but at the end

20:34of the day you have an input of time

20:36like zooming all the way out if the goal

20:38assuming that your goal is to make money

20:40okay like and this is just a purely

20:42economic business goal then you have

20:45time which is the primary currency that

20:47you trade it and you make dollars over a

20:48period of time and so I tend to reject

20:51the idea of like never you know never

20:52trade time for dollars or anything like

20:54that because everyone trades time for

20:56dollars it's just some of us are more

20:57efficient at it than others but even

21:00exchanges that occur that just are not

21:01denominated in time still occur over

21:03time and so uh you have this

21:07foundational unit of time which you're

21:08going to give in what we're seeking is

21:11the highest return on that time and so

21:14there you know within a business context

21:16there's kind of three levels of uh

21:18things that have to occur in business

21:19you have to you know attract attention

21:21you have to convert attention then you

21:22have to deliver something uh for that

21:23attention and in each of those things

21:25you want as much leverage as possible so

21:27you want as little time as possible

21:29required to get the most output and so I

21:32have built acquisition. comom on

21:33basically two primary thesis uh which

21:35are in the logo which is this is a full

21:39Crum for leverage for people that can't

21:40see it's like a triangle yeah so it's

21:42like a triangle or the Illuminati

21:44because that always gets brought up um

21:46right so we've got the full Crum for

21:48leverage and then inside of it you have

21:50supply and demand and I see those as the

21:52two foundational principles of business

21:54and so which is you need supply and

21:56demand to have a business and then

21:58leverage to get as much out of it as you

22:00possibly can and so um when you're

22:03looking at the assets that you have

22:05assets can also be skills resources what

22:07you have available to you now if you

22:08have nothing then all you have is your

22:10brain your hands and the time that you

22:12have that you can put towards learning

22:13something which is why I'm a big fan of

22:15skill acquisition as one of the the

22:17primary things that you can do is

22:18educating yourself and not formally

22:20educating but informally or

22:22alternatively educating yourself on

22:24super tactical things uh once you get

22:26over the fear then you start asking okay

22:28okay how do I let people know about my

22:29stuff and what do I let them know right

22:32and so you have to have something to

22:34sell which is the offer and ideally you

22:36want the offer to have as much leverage

22:37as possible like so if you sold software

22:39or you sold media those are things that

22:40you can U cut once sell sell a thousand

22:44times um if you have a conversion

22:47mechanism it's like you can have it be

22:48automated like a check out page or some

22:50sort of video sales letter or something

22:52like that where people just buy without

22:54a phone salesperson if you add a phone

22:55salesp person there's less leverage not

22:56to say this wrong but you you want to

22:59have the highest leverage opportunity

23:00and then from a um from the

23:02deliverability expect uh perspective um

23:06I kind of talked about deliverability

23:07first but uh from the advertising

23:09perspective uh if you reach out to

23:11people one-onone that's lower leverage

23:13than being able to make one piece of

23:14content that a million people see right

23:16and so over time you go from low

23:17leverage to high leverage uh where you

23:19have the same inputs but you just get

23:21significantly more for your output and

23:23that fundamentally is like if we're

23:24reasoning up from first principles how

23:26do I get the said differently the

23:28question someone I think is really

23:29asking is how do I get the most for what

23:31I put in and you have to reason within

23:34your current context of your skills and

23:36your resources and your assets in order

23:38to derive that solution for you so if

23:41someone walks up to you in the street

23:42and they say Alex what idea should I

23:43pursue I've just quit my job yeah right

23:46so I would say um business idea is

23:49typically come from one of three PS so

23:50it comes from a pain that you're

23:52currently experiencing a past profession

23:54so the thing that you just quit or some

23:56of the jobs that you just quit or a

23:57passion MH so it's something that you're

23:59inherently interested in that you would

24:00spend your time doing

24:02anyways uh some skill that you learned

24:04while you were in the workforce which by

24:05the way is one of the most proven ways

24:07of making money because the economy has

24:09already showed you that people are

24:10willing to exchange money for that for

24:12that specific job and so uh in the world

24:15of gig economies and solar preneurs

24:17every business can be dismantled into

24:18just jobs being done and all of those

24:21jobs can be fractionalized so anybody

24:23like we look at any business you've got

24:25sales you've got you've got marketing

24:27you've got customer uccess you've got

24:29you've got customer support if you want

24:30to differentiate that you've got product

24:31you've got design you've got web pages

24:33there's you know there's so many

24:34different components to a business you

24:36just need to learn one of them and then

24:37it's like boom you have a skill that you

24:39can trade for money that you don't have

24:40anybody else to report to um and then

24:43pain is usually I think um in some ways

24:47um sometimes one of the biggest drivers

24:49it's like you had an eating allergy and

24:52you couldn't find pancakes that dealt

24:57with your specific eating all and you

24:59bet that there's a decent amount of

25:00other people with that allergy that also

25:01like pancakes and so then you make

25:03pancakes that that are delicious and

25:05amazing that also cater to people with

25:07that food allergy and then all of a

25:08sudden like you have a business based on

25:09pain and why why does that matter what

25:12the Pain part um I what leverage and

25:14Advantage does it give you for the next

25:16five years I think that deep knowledge

25:19of the prospect is Paramount or very

25:22important for creating exceptional

25:24products and you can either do that by

25:26doing a ton and ton of research or by

25:29being the Prospect and there's a certain

25:31amount of like visceral feel that you'll

25:35know like if someone wants to make a

25:36nose product for breathing I have tried

25:39every product since I was in eth grade

25:40so it's been 20 plus years 30 whatever a

25:43lot of years um that since then and I've

25:45tried everything and so I know the pros

25:47and cons of every product that exists on

25:49the market and I can tell because and

25:51I've done it's not like oh I tried it

25:52for a day it's like I'll try things for

25:54a month at a time and so I have so much

25:56time exposure to this problem that I

25:58have a lot of nuance in my opinion on

26:00what's wrong with the solutions so I can

26:02formulate a way better hypothesis on how

26:04to fix it and that hypothesis would will

26:06be for an investor so much more

26:08compelling because you lead with a story

26:10as opposed to logic I met the guy who uh

26:13invested in Regal Cinemas which is the

26:15probably the biggest chain in the US um

26:18and it was when it was there was guy had

26:20just one theater and it became now

26:21obviously Co has disrupted that business

26:23but you know for 20 you know years

26:24whatever they they crushed and he said

26:27it was so weird to say that oh Cinemas

26:29are going to make a comeback because

26:30they'd kind of been on a downturn or

26:31something like that during the time that

26:33he was making the investment and he said

26:35the reason I decided to invest in it was

26:36because this guy knew everything about

26:38the business down to how much the cost

26:39of Colonel of popcorn was and he just

26:42knew it so like the back of his hand

26:44that he was like this guy can't fail

26:45like he just knows too much about this

26:47business to not have it work and so he

26:49investing in you know making gazillion

26:50dollars and so but I think that that

26:53deep understanding and if you look at

26:55all of these the passion things you'll

26:57have deep understanding because you're

26:58spending spending all of your

26:58discretionary time pursuing this passion

27:01the pain you have a deep understanding

27:03of the of the problem and the prospects

27:05going through it because you've

27:06experienced it probably for years now

27:08the professional one I would say is a

27:10bit of a shortcut um because if you're

27:12quitting the job because you don't like

27:15it and then you say I'm now going to do

27:16this for myself well you're

27:21okay um I mean well the the the one the

27:24one proven point about that is that that

27:26one is proven to work from an economic

27:27perspective

27:28you will be able to make money doing

27:29that because you already have made money

27:31doing it these other two are less proven

27:33but sometimes have a significantly more

27:34upside when you were talking about the

27:36breathing example with your nose it's

27:38funny because if you had sat down and

27:39said to me Steve I've made these like

27:40breathing nose strips um they are better

27:42they're 20% more durable they expand

27:44your nostrils by 20% it is multiples

27:48less compelling than you telling me that

27:50story you just said about being a kid

27:52having breathing problems trying to

27:53solve this problem for yourself and it's

27:55funny cuz that that story you told

27:57versus the sort of rational logical

27:59approach or the benefits approach is

28:01your marketing campaign for the next

28:04five years on Tik Tok and Instagram it's

28:06I had a problem I solved it I tried

28:08everything and solved it for myself

28:09there's almost like nothing more

28:10compelling and believable no we see that

28:12in Dragon's Den it we'll be sat there

28:14listening to these pictures all day then

28:15someone will come in and say I had ADHD

28:18I tried Energy Products they all made me

28:20crash so I went out and solved this

28:22problem for myself and we're on edge cuz

28:24we almost can't argue with it yeah at

28:26that point you know yeah so basic has

28:28this great framework where he talks

28:29about missionaries and mercenaries and

28:31so it's kind of like you have the guy

28:33who says okay I looked at market trends

28:35and this is a growing category and you

28:37know I surveyed people and this was the

28:40you know the result that came back and

28:42so I believe that if we time this

28:43product right uh at this point in the

28:45market we'll achieve huge you know a

28:47mass adoption blah blah blah blah and

28:50it's like loging your way through and to

28:52be fair some people do you know do make

28:54it work but the missionaries are the

28:56ones that end up making the most money

28:57because is like they do it sure for the

29:01money cuz the business has to have some

29:02economic engine behind it but really

29:04because they viscerally experienced this

29:06problem and don't want anyone else to

29:07solve to deal with that problem either

29:08and so like if I were to tell that story

29:10like you were saying like when I was in

29:12eth grade it was the first year that I I

29:14started really noticing I couldn't

29:15breathe at night and so I learned how to

29:17fall asleep with my hand on my face like

29:18this so that my nostril would so I could

29:21fall asleep in my hand with because you

29:22there's no actually other because you

29:23can't hold your because you fall asleep

29:25right and so if I fall asleep with my

29:27hand like this right like like I'm on

29:29the couch and I fall asleep like that it

29:31keeps my nostril open and I can fall

29:33asleep and it doesn't move and so that's

29:35how I learned how to sleep for years uh

29:38before founding like just like simple

29:40nasal strips and things like that but

29:41there's tons of problems with with those

29:43solutions that exist right now that I

29:44won't get into but um maybe someday I'll

29:47make a nasal product I think I mean

29:49literally just

29:51delivered [ __ ] I can tell you if you

29:53put if you put every product in front of

29:55me that exists right now I can tell you

29:56what's wrong with it cuz I've tried I've

29:57tried literally all of them not like I'm

29:59pretty obsessive and so like I've tried

30:01all of them missing opportunity here

30:03I've tried I've tried the ones from

30:04Europe I've tried the like not just us

30:06like I've tried I've tried every product

30:07that exists on Amazon I've tried all the

30:10ones from foreign countries every every

30:11fan or follower who sends me a product

30:13that is a nasal company that's new um I

30:16will try the product I still do um and

30:19there has yet there's there's yet to be

30:21one that has truly solved it I mean you

30:23should I

30:25mean but I I think in some ways uh so

30:28this is actually a really good meta uh

30:29concept here which is that um if you

30:32want to be compelling a demonstration or

30:35a model is always more compelling than

30:37anything else and

30:39so me even going through that entire

30:41narrative right is taking everyone else

30:45who's been listening to this on some

30:46Journey it's like if you want to make a

30:47compelling pitch for a business it's

30:50like we pretty much just kind of went

30:51through one um and so that's that's

30:55really what it comes down to you're like

30:56well what do I do with my business it's

30:57like

30:58create your Narrative of why you're even

31:00doing this and if you can explain to

31:03somebody why why they should care about

31:04this problem or more specifically why

31:06you care about this

31:08problem I'll tell you this more

31:10investors will like I might be like I

31:11don't care about kitchen utensils but

31:13this girl certainly does and I'm sure

31:15there's other women who do too and what

31:17everyone wants to see is Obsession and

31:19unfortunately in like some of the world

31:22I know more in the UK than the US now

31:24like that kind of perspective of like

31:27just being all in obsessed with stuff

31:28has almost been like um bastard or like

31:31you know been um

31:32chastised and I but the people who are

31:35obsessed with the ones who changed the

31:36world at least changed their world and

31:40um and I think that so a very close

31:42friend of mine um did all the uh Olympic

31:45teams um nutrition and supplementation

31:48stuff for uh a country overseas and he

31:51said you know the difference between

31:52Champions and everyone else and I was

31:53like what he said everyone always looks

31:55at them and says what do champions have

31:58that I don't have and he said it's they

32:01have it backwards he said it's what do

32:04Champions not have that I have it's what

32:07do they lack and it's an off button they

32:10just don't stop and so in dealing with

32:13the gold medals he's like they just

32:14never stop they just can't stop

32:16everything in their life is geared

32:17towards one goal and so finding that

32:21thing and they approach everything in

32:23their life that way and I think that

32:26that level of obsession of around like

32:29everything that you touch on a daily

32:30basis is required for really getting to

32:33where you want to

32:35go so interesting because as we spoke

32:37there about the reason why the story was

32:41so much more compelling it was back to

32:43the amigdala it was back to emotion

32:46right and it's funny because we we said

32:47a second ago that when someone's

32:48thinking about quitting a job they're

32:49like SE in their amigdala humans run

32:51mostly on their amydala so when we think

32:53about pitching we should really be

32:55aiming at the same part of the brain

32:57which is what you did when you showed me

32:58that you were sleeping as a kid with

32:59your hand stretching across your face I

33:01immediately felt sorry for you felt

33:03sympathy and I immediately believed that

33:04if anyone's going to solve this problem

33:06it is this [ __ ] guy who's been

33:07through that pain I've had two surgeries

33:09both of them didn't really work like I

33:11mean like i' I've got the story my

33:12girlfriend's the same what really two

33:14surgeries but she's coming up to her

33:16third one now we've tried all the nose

33:17drips I saw you wearing one I bought

33:19that one for her yeah um and so there's

33:22a lot of people watching right now and

33:23there's something going on with these

33:24bloody [ __ ] like noses yeah people

33:26shouldn't like yeah we're doing

33:28something I I feel like I may it popular

33:29some of the N Stuff yeah but D making it

33:33cool pain profession passion yeah

33:36ideally you have all three if you have

33:38all three then you're I mean my God

33:40you're set like if you if basically pain

33:42created an obsession and for some reason

33:44you also were doing something like that

33:45in your work like I feel like the

33:46likelihood that you don't succeed is

33:48almost nothing you only need one of

33:50those three you just pick one like if

33:51you just had one pain that you had that

33:53you wanted to overcome or one passion

33:55that you were just inherently interested

33:57cuz sometimes passion has nothing to

33:58like you might just be really into model

33:59cars it's okay well there's a lot of

34:01businesses that you can build around

34:02model cars it's like you can you can

34:04manufacture model cars uh you can have

34:06services around model cars making them

34:07faster because some people race model

34:08cars you can uh be a collector and start

34:10flipping model cars like you can just

34:12make media around how to build them and

34:14then have a media company around like

34:16there's so many different components of

34:17any Obsession or interest that you can

34:19make I I was talking to um on one of the

34:21future episodes of uh mosy tank uh

34:24that's coming out we have a guy who's um

34:26he loves Dungeons and Dragons so he's an

34:27it he's an IT guy and just loves

34:31Dungeons and Dragons and he was like I

34:33just want this to make enough money that

34:35I don't have to do ID

34:37anymore and but it was so pure you know

34:39what I mean and so I was like we're

34:40going to help you do this and so we kind

34:42of walk through the business plan for it

34:43but like is he going to be a billionaire

34:45no but I also don't think that's his

34:47goal and so I think being really clear

34:49on what you want um is important so if

34:51you're like I want to be the richest

34:53person in the world I think it's a

34:54terrible goal but if you want that great

34:56well you have to have a multi-trillion

34:58dollar idea because now because by the

35:01time that occurs there's already multi-

35:03trillion dollar companies now so you got

35:05to be looking at like Deca trillion

35:06dollar opportunity and so believe it or

35:09not basically the bigger the goal the

35:10narrow the scope of the path to get

35:12there if you're like I want to make $10

35:14million like you can literally do that

35:16in almost any business you want to make

35:18$100 million probably still almost any

35:20business you can do it on a long enough

35:22time rise and you can do it a trillion

35:23or decad trillion it's going to be some

35:25sort of tech it's probably going to have

35:27some sort of AI

35:28like and so you get basically the bigger

35:30the goal is the narrower the scope of of

35:32how to get there but the vast majority

35:33of people were like I want to be the

35:34richest man in the world it's just

35:35because they don't know how to like

35:36really think through it and be like all

35:38right well after like a hundred there's

35:39really nothing you can't do except buy

35:42more big things but like in terms of

35:44your actual consumption maybe even 20 is

35:46like you can only eat at restaurants

35:47that go so expensive you can only stay

35:49at the best hotels you can only drive

35:50the nicest cars you can do that with

35:51about 25

35:52million what do you think the cheat code

35:54is then so I've got my idea what do you

35:55think the cheat code is in 2025

35:58to win at the game of attention like

36:02there's got to be some new rules here

36:03because we've got AI we've got new

36:04platforms we've got New

36:06Media you know I'm give you a

36:09hypothetical business idea I'm going to

36:11be a personal trainer okay and I pick

36:13that because everyone can do it and it's

36:14it's a saturated industry if I'm if I'm

36:16a personal trainer in the

36:182025 how should I be thinking about

36:21building attention mhm so I'll tell you

36:24what I wouldn't do first which is I

36:26don't think I try and out science the

36:28science people uh because like unless

36:30you have some PhD there is a PhD guy

36:32who's already jacked who's making

36:34content and so he's more knowledgeable

36:36and more Jack than you so you're not

36:38going to win there and so I think in the

36:40game of attention it's trying to find

36:42what is unique right and so how do you

36:44how do you quote stand out when

36:46everyone's loud and this is going to

36:48sound trite but your fingerprint is

36:52unique literally from a biological

36:54perspective but so is your life and your

36:56experiences and so there's there's real

36:59Alpha or or benefit to be had above

37:02normal level of effort by leaning into

37:05you and so what makes every person

37:08unique is what makes their content

37:10unique and so trying to be like oh I

37:12want to make content like Alex is

37:14probably not the best way to do it

37:15because you're not going to beat me at

37:16being me but you'll beat me at being you

37:19and so it's basically your flavor of

37:21media so like for me it's like you know

37:23what is you know my brand to to to to

37:25model this it's like well I have

37:26elements of flly philosophy that are in

37:28my brand well do I need that no but

37:30that's like kind of me um I obviously

37:32talk a ton about business marketing and

37:33sales promotion conversion those are all

37:35things that I spend a lot of time

37:36thinking about and so a lot of my

37:38content about that um Fitness is a

37:40component of my life and so there's

37:41light sprinkling of Fitness uh in my

37:43content also I come from a background of

37:45Fitness um with the the with gym launch

37:47and and the companies that I owned

37:48before that and so that would make sense

37:51that and I've my wife Lea and so that

37:53sprinkled in and so like those are

37:54basically the components of My Life um

37:56and so that's what kind of shines

37:57through in my content I consume a ton of

37:59comedy and so sometimes you'll see some

38:00dry humor and dark humor that that

38:01shines through um but that's me now you

38:04have all of those little buckets of you

38:07and not only are those buckets unique

38:09but also the proportions of those

38:11buckets will be different and so maybe

38:12your philosophy is way bigger or maybe

38:14Fitness part is way bigger but I think

38:16what makes the truly unique personal

38:17trainer or Fitness brand is leaning

38:20into people being interested in you for

38:23being you and then being like by the way

38:27I have Fitness stuff if you want to buy

38:29it from me and I think the key part is

38:33the vast majority of products and

38:34services are commone tized there you're

38:36not you're probably not going to be

38:37significantly better than other trainers

38:40just being real you probably aren't but

38:43you will be different than them and we

38:46want to lean on I I want to buy Fitness

38:49from somebody and so I might as well buy

38:51from her or I might as well buy it from

38:52him so you're taking basically this

38:54audience that would buy from anyone but

38:57your brand premium gets them to want to

38:59buy it from you we think about Prime for

39:01example with the drink the drink company

39:03like it's a it's a drink that there's

39:06other products that already exist in the

39:07marketplace that satisfy the same thing

39:09as Prime but if you are agnostic to that

39:12brand and you have brand Affinity with

39:13that that Creator then you're like well

39:16then if I have two things that are

39:18basically equal and I just like this guy

39:19better I'm just going to as long as the

39:21prices are comparable I'll just vote

39:23with my dollars here and so I think that

39:25if you're a personal trainer in 2025

39:28um it's going to be longterm it's going

39:31to be building the content short term

39:33it's going to be Outreach to people that

39:35you know and making a compelling offer

39:37to get people to try to work with you

39:39this overarching point you said there

39:40about being yourself as I was thinking

39:42about it I was thinking gosh do you know

39:44what the thing that all of my favorite

39:46creators and the Really successful

39:47creators have in common is they all have

39:50and I use these words intentionally the

39:52courage to be themselves yeah because I

39:56tell you what when I was starting out as

39:57a content creator and I looked back I

39:58was showing one of my team members the

39:59other day the things I used to post it

40:01was like everything happens for a reason

40:03it was cringe cliche fluff and it took

40:06me several years to almost relax into

40:09just realizing that the game here was to

40:11get to the point where I could be myself

40:12on the internet and actually that was

40:14the most high value because of you know

40:16of what you said it's the uniquest part

40:17of me but the courage to be yourself and

40:21it's it's it is the winning strategy for

40:242025 and it's I think um it's leaning

40:27into it and the thing is is that

40:29everything in you wants to not do that

40:30I'm not really sure why um but I was

40:33having a conversation with Ila I want to

40:34say two nights ago or three nights ago

40:37um I got a bunch of flack for uh some X

40:40poost that I made and she just looked at

40:42me and she was like never dilute

40:46yourself because I was like maybe I was

40:48like maybe I shouldn't talk about this

40:49stuff like maybe I should just like you

40:51know I'll just lean off and she was like

40:53never dilute yourself like there are so

40:56many more people people who need that

40:59message than people who are hating that

41:02message and she was like and if you're

41:03actually going to make a difference in a

41:06lot of people's lives there's going to

41:07be an equal and opposing force of people

41:09who want to reject that and she's like

41:12this just comes with the territory of

41:14like how big of an impact you want to

41:15have and it was just such a great you

41:17know wife talking to husband you know

41:19conversation um that I guess for me at

41:21the end of the day I'm like as long as

41:22she thinks I'm cool like you know I I'll

41:25keep doing it but um but yeah it's just

41:28uh because the diluted down version all

41:31all of a sudden becomes everyone else's

41:33stuff well you said a second ago you're

41:35not sure why that is but by very

41:39definition of it being unique that that

41:41means that there is no blueprint yeah

41:43there is no person that's come before

41:45you and proven that it works so the

41:48courage of being yourself there's only

41:49one Steven Bartlett so if I'm truly

41:51myself it's never been done before that

41:53means that the risks are unknown the

41:54upside is also unknown yeah but so again

41:56going back to to our our hate of

41:58uncertainty it makes much more sense for

42:00me to try and copy you because I can see

42:03a blueprint there than to run the risk

42:05of being yourself and you are someone

42:07have to say who is running the risk of

42:09being yourself and actually as someone

42:11who's observing you now I know who you

42:13are and I now know who you're not and

42:16it's important for me as someone that

42:17follows your work yeah that actually I

42:20see consistency because I've established

42:22Alex os's values yeah and anything that

42:24diverts from that is actually less

42:26valuable because you say it's more like

42:28everyone else and the things I've had

42:29before but it's also it wouldn't feel

42:30true anymore yeah and um and this is

42:34something that even as a Creator myself

42:36I I have to fall back on is my audience

42:38know who I am now For Better or For

42:40Worse yeah they're not going to learn

42:42anything new yeah you know what's really

42:44interesting is navigating the gray and

42:46so there are contradictory ideals and

42:51this is what I kind of come back to when

42:52I'm when I'm like worried about these

42:53types of things which is like you've got

42:55mercy and you've got

42:58Justice they are somehow opposed and

43:01they are both ideals so how can we

43:04believe in Justice and also believe in

43:05Mercy at the same time and so and I mean

43:09there's you can have variety and

43:10consistency like there there's there

43:12there's tons of examples of this right

43:15um and so we have these diametrically

43:17opposed ideals which means that if you

43:19ever say by the way I'm a little bit

43:21more of a Justice guy like I understand

43:24they had a hard time but at some point

43:26you got to take your own personal

43:27accountability so like no you're not

43:28going to get out of the speeding ticket

43:29you're going to get like that's what's

43:31just on the other hand it's like hey

43:33single mom uh gets pulled over uh for

43:35driving too fast you know what maybe we

43:38let her off today both of those stories

43:40fair but you're going to get attacked by

43:43the other side that has an ideal that

43:46all humans try to strive for and it will

43:48feel terrible because they are right and

43:51so what and so I think that like

43:54understanding that that conflict will

43:56always exist between two apparent ideals

43:58that and this is fun this is

44:00foundationally what politics is right is

44:03that there are two apparent ideals that

44:04bet all of us I would say 99% of people

44:07would say justice is good Mercy is good

44:09variety is good consistency is good

44:11right respecting values is good so is

44:14innovating and doing new things how can

44:16we have both of these contradictory

44:18ideas and at the same time like navigate

44:19that without conflict you can't because

44:22how much becomes the question and so I

44:24think that your thumbprint as a Creator

44:26is that when someone presents a

44:29scenario and says does Alex choose Mercy

44:32or Justice in the scenario that your

44:34audience says gets it right and so I

44:37think about um branding in general as

44:40basically a mosaic that you get to

44:42create and so like each piece of content

44:43is a little tile that has a single color

44:45on it and if you just see one piece of

44:47short content of of Steven Bartlett you

44:50you don't really have an idea who Steven

44:51Marlett is but if you see a thousand of

44:53them all of a sudden you zoom out and

44:54you get to see the whole picture and I

44:56think that that the the colors that are

44:58in those mosaics and the and the

44:59proportion of how many yellows how many

45:02Reds how many greens and where are they

45:04is what ultimately creates the brand and

45:06so um because people want to try and

45:08turn this into okay so I make one post

45:10about family I make one post about

45:12finances I make one post about whatever

45:14right it's like I don't think that's how

45:16it works I think you just be you and

45:19then those proportions will naturally

45:21shake out and also over time you will

45:24change and so it also makes sense that

45:26your brand will change and was I had to

45:29recile which likeit I don't know if I

45:31agree as with some of the things that I

45:32said years ago the thing is in the

45:34digital world like my first podcast was

45:362017 July of 2017

45:39wow episode 8 is called stop

45:44branding I have changed my views on

45:47branding to be clear yeah but that first

45:50podcast is 90 days from when I lost

45:52everything MH and so the entire the

45:55entire like horm Journey if you want to

45:57call that from zero to billion is

46:00actually documented 90 days from zero

46:03it's all there and so you can see how my

46:05my my views on business have changed and

46:07like what I was thinking about at every

46:09kind of portion of my life and so I had

46:11to just be okay with the idea that like

46:14I will change my mind because I will get

46:17new information because let's take the

46:18alternative stance if I get new

46:19information do I just keep parting what

46:21you did before this is also an issue

46:22with politics right is that like he's

46:24flippy floppy it's like so they're not

46:26allowed to learn

46:27yeah you've been in politics like you

46:29haven't learned anything like no stances

46:32Chang like I feel like we should be able

46:33to do that obviously Brands don't work

46:35that way so it has to be gradual over

46:37time which I think if you were always

46:39you at all times it will be gradual over

46:41time yeah I don't know I think a lot of

46:44the time we end up over focusing on

46:46unreasonable people which is a war we

46:48can never win anyway because you say

46:50that to me I think so I think it was

46:52like I had this uh this guy therapist on

46:53my podcast who I then spoke to after the

46:55podcast and he basically broke it down

46:57to me he was like there's 20% of people

46:59that just absolutely love everything you

47:00will ever do like you could say anything

47:02you change they're [ __ ] they're just

47:03super fans there's 80% of people that

47:05are actually like he said there 60% of

47:07people that are really reasonable they

47:09don't speak yeah they just watch they're

47:11like reasonable and there's 20% of

47:13people with no matter what the [ __ ] you

47:14do they're going to be he is like don't

47:16spend your life focusing on the the 20%

47:19the quiet majority the 60% they don't

47:21tweet they don't they just chill and

47:23then the 20% you know they your

47:25evangelists but you know I find myself

47:27falling into the Trap of the so what's

47:29interesting about the 20% is that like

47:31um I was thinking about this today the

47:33your so no matter who you are you're

47:36going to be disliked period because no

47:38one's liked by everyone so we just have

47:40like let's if we can accept that as a

47:41premise right no one's going to be like

47:43for everyone you might as well be

47:44disliked for being you than being

47:45somebody else amen am at the most basic

47:48level you the being disliked is a fixed

47:53cost and and I think to to to to take

47:56the opposite pers perspective I think it

47:57is far better to be disliked for being

47:59who you are than loved for someone

48:00you're not yeah and one one of the great

48:04entrepreneurs I interviewed on the

48:05podcast said to me when it comes to

48:06marketing and branding and this sort of

48:07attention conversation we're having she

48:10said to me that in order to reach your

48:1380% you have to piss off your 20% or at

48:16least be willing to piss off your 20% it

48:18was Jane warang who's the founder of

48:19demica global Beauty um brand with I

48:22think hundreds of thousands of people

48:24and she sat and said to get to your 80%

48:26you have to be willing to piss off no

48:28actually [ __ ] she said to get to your

48:3020% you have to be willing to piss off

48:32the

48:3280% and from a branding perspective it

48:35makes so much sense because when you

48:37stand for something clearly which you do

48:40you inadvertently stand against a you

48:42have to if you draw a line there's

48:44there's there's a side on either side

48:46and you have to say like I'm on this

48:47side did you see that Nike ad dude I was

48:50just going to say that I was just going

48:52to say that yeah the William defo ad

48:54yeah like what's yours is mine and

48:55what's mine is mine yeah just like it

48:57was actually the first time that I'd

48:59seen something from Nike in a long time

49:00that I was like this is what built this

49:02brand and I think they have they had

49:05lost their way for a while yeah uh with

49:07like the wokeism and all that stuff and

49:08I think it's like Nike means Victory

49:11which means people have to lose yeah and

49:14they were willing to say that for the

49:15first time ever right I posted it on my

49:16LinkedIn and it was 50/50 yeah I'd say

49:19it was actually more like 80% of people

49:21were either neutral or pissed off and 20

49:24yeah and 20% of people were like that is

49:27me I am a Nike person and for me when I

49:29saw that I thought I want to buy some

49:30Nike shorts yeah it was I mean it was

49:32the first time I actually felt like I

49:33had positive brand Affinity towards the

49:34brand in a long time how important in

49:36this game of building and starting is

49:39people

49:41oh very a hiring question I'll tell you

49:45why I asked this question because when I

49:46look at my portfolio early stage first

49:48Founders never seem to understand the

49:50importance of hiring in people yeah and

49:53I bang my head against the wall trying

49:54to convince them that actually the game

49:56they're playing is in the company group

49:59of people yeah so I would I'll start

50:02with one thing and then I'll answer the

50:03question so I was talking to um a mentor

50:05of mine and he said when I was in my 20s

50:07it was all about the destination he said

50:09when I got to my 30s I realized it was

50:11all about the journey he said when I was

50:13in my 40s I realized it was about the

50:14company and I was like I can't wait till

50:16you're in your

50:1750s the next one right but I thought

50:19that was such a great like such a

50:20profound shift in terms of how he

50:22thought about his business success cuz

50:23he was like I don't need to be a you

50:25know a Deca billionaire he's like I'm

50:27I'm cool where I'm at um and now I just

50:30want to do it with people that I like

50:32and so to the question about um people

50:38overall I believe that the potential of

50:41an organization is directly correlated

50:44with the aggregate intellectual

50:46horsepower of everyone contained within

50:49it and so if you are the smartest person

50:53in the business then and you can do

50:56every everyone's job better than

50:57everyone in your company then it means

50:59that the limit of the business is purely

51:01based on one person's horsepower and one

51:02person's life

51:05experiences and that will be the cap and

51:07basically it doesn't matter how smart

51:09you are you can't live a 100 lifetimes

51:12like you can learn quickly sure there's

51:13some people who can learn faster than

51:14others but you're not going to be able

51:15to live a thousand lifetimes and

51:18so as a business grows more expertise is

51:22required and I think the easiest liit

51:24test for this is if you look at the

51:25richest people in the World almost none

51:27of them Own 100% of their business so

51:29number one most of them don't even own

51:3150 like most of them are small

51:33percentages Jensen WIS at 4% for NVIDIA

51:36basos is at seven or 9% for for Amazon

51:39uh I think elon's at 20 for Tesla like

51:41small percentages and it's because it

51:43takes a lot of horses to take a chariot

51:46to the Moon right and so basically as

51:50you put in more intellectual horsepower

51:53the potential peak of the business goes

51:56so much so much higher so much faster

51:59Keith rabois from um he's one of the

52:01original PayPal Mafia guys has a really

52:02good analogy for this and he talks about

52:04it in terms of barrels and ammunition

52:06and he says so as soon as you get some

52:09product Market fit the business starts

52:11to grow and you say okay we need to

52:12start shipping things faster and this

52:14works the same with a Services business

52:15a physical products business software

52:17business the concept's the same and said

52:19so what happens is you then hire a lot

52:20of people and you assume that your

52:23throughput is going to increase

52:24proportionally so we have 10 people we

52:25hire 50 we should 5xr output and then

52:27you quickly realize that that is not the

52:29case and so what happens is uh there are

52:32people who are rate limiters for or or

52:34and organization and those are the

52:36barrels so think about like a civil war

52:37Barrel you know Old Cannon and you've

52:39got these cannonballs next to it he said

52:40most people are ammunition and so you

52:42bring more ammunition but you're still

52:44going to be limited by the one barrel

52:46capacity of how how many shots can get

52:48taken by the barrel and so you need to

52:50find more barrels so you have to go from

52:52one barrel to two barrels two barrels to

52:54three barrels and that becomes an

52:55increase in capacity or throughput for

52:57the organization and there are very few

52:59of those in a different um I can't

53:02remember the law but it's some

53:03organizational uh law but uh the square

53:06root of the number of people in a

53:07company generate 50% of the work so you

53:10have 100 people in an organization 10

53:11people are responsible for 50% of the

53:13value that's created facts right anybody

53:16who's been in like you're like of like

53:18preach and so the thing is is I think

53:21the real game of Entrepreneurship is

53:23that your standards rise over time and

53:26it's unfortunate because we we hear

53:29things that other entrepreneurs tell us

53:30it's all about the people stupid and

53:31then you're like sure but look at my and

53:33it's like no you're not hearing it and I

53:36don't know there are some I think

53:37Williamson talks about this how there's

53:38like some lessons that for some reason

53:40it's like we have to learn for ourselves

53:43I still believe that that it's like we

53:44can operationalize this at a lower level

53:46so that we don't have to learn it for

53:47ourselves but like I'm convinced I

53:49haven't figured it out yet but um so

53:52every entrepreneur can can can can

53:54resonate with this which is every

53:56business that I've started I've gotten

53:58to the success of the business Prior Way

54:01faster and I kind of liken it to a video

54:04game where it's like you beat level one

54:07and then you know you get to level two

54:09and it's like you spend months trying to

54:10beat this boss and you finally figure

54:11how to beat the boss and it's like great

54:13and you spend another three months

54:14getting beating Boss 3 and let's say you

54:16start the game over with a new character

54:18it's like you just zoom through level

54:19one two and three and then you get to

54:20level four and you're like shoot now I

54:21got to spend time it's like virgin land

54:23like I don't know how to beat this yet

54:24and so I think that that happens for

54:27archetype finding for skill and talent

54:29within an organization and so say that

54:32again so if you have functions across an

54:35organization there are people who are

54:36going to drive results within that

54:38function and the first time you hire a

54:40salesperson for example you don't know

54:42what you're looking for and so you just

54:44hire a human who says they can sell and

54:46maybe they can maybe they can't and then

54:49you cycle you try to train them that

54:50doesn't work does work whatever and then

54:52finally you let's say you cycle through

54:53three sales guys and finally you find a

54:54killer and then you have this

54:56recognition you're like okay that's what

54:58I'm looking for and then all of a sudden

54:59you try and approximate that person or

55:01that archetype as as much as you can and

55:04so when you start your second company

55:05you're like oh I can quickly staff up

55:07sales because I know what I'm looking

55:08for but then you're like shoot I've

55:10never really nailed sales manager yet

55:12and so then you cycle through you start

55:13you start whacking away at the boss and

55:15then you have to end up firing the boss

55:17at level because you're like oh God this

55:18didn't work and then six months are gone

55:20because you had to find them recruit

55:21them hire them train them and then find

55:22out they sucked and then start over

55:24again and maybe it takes 18 months to

55:25really find the right sales manager and

55:27then you're like okay I know what that

55:29looks like but I still don't have a

55:31director of marketing what does that

55:32look like and so it's basically

55:34developing this pattern recognition

55:36across all functions of the business so

55:38you that you know what exceptional looks

55:39like and then over time what happens is

55:42as a business grows your ability to

55:44attract Talent increases and so then

55:47your standards also grow and then you

55:49find out that there's even more Nuance

55:50to this which is that there's a director

55:52of sales at a $1 to10 million level

55:54which is a different looking person

55:56from10 to100 million level and it

55:58continues to go all the way up and so

56:01it's basically building this repertoire

56:03of identifying patterns and what if you

56:07talk to I would say more experienced

56:09entrepreneurs now they don't talk about

56:10building businesses it's like assembling

56:12them you just assemble the pieces and

56:14you just know that this is how it's all

56:16going to flow together and that

56:19fundamentally is basically what I try

56:21and decode within the content that I

56:22have so that it's like here's a pattern

56:24for how you recognize this here's a

56:25pattern for how you recog ize this so

56:27that you can just move faster through

56:29the levels um to get to where you want

56:30to go and so to loop back to the

56:33original question which is how important

56:34are people in an organization people are

56:37the organization and so if you ever want

56:39to build Enterprise Value it's building

56:41the collective consciousness of the

56:43organization the skills and how they

56:44collaborate together towards a specific

56:46outcome and so knowing how to staff that

56:49up is the

56:51job I think the reason why first-time

56:53Founders feel like they have to learn

56:55this lesson themselves is because

56:57everything you've just said is an

56:57unknown unknown like they don't even

56:59know that they don't know it so they

57:00stumbl they hire the sales guy because

57:02they were their friend from high school

57:03and then [ __ ] and then they go

57:05through the pain and I say this because

57:07I'm so unbelievably passionate about it

57:09I went through the same BS I hired my

57:11friend who worked at Prada to be art

57:12account I hired a guy I met at a rap

57:14battle to be my marketing director who

57:16who was literally playing video games

57:18for a living at 30 years old um and I

57:20went through this whole thing and then

57:22at maybe three four years into my first

57:24business I accidentally hired someone

57:27great like through no intention of

57:29myself accidentally I saw the net impact

57:31they had and I thought oh my God over

57:33the coming years I learned that the game

57:34the fundamental game here is as you said

57:37assembling the best group of

57:38people how if I'm a firsttime Founder

57:42can I put a system in place to to make

57:47sure that even though I don't know what

57:48a good salesperson looks like yeah even

57:50though I don't know what an ex good

57:52person looks like I still attract them

57:54to my company

57:57the simplest way of doing it so the

57:59simplest way of attracting somebody to

58:02your business when you don't know how to

58:04do the job or know who to look for is to

58:07unfortunately do the job yourself and

58:10then once you can break down the job we

58:12follow 3DS which is um document

58:15demonstrate duplicate that's how we

58:16train anybody so first you have to

58:18document everything that you do to

58:20successfully do the job and that's

58:22step-by step into a checklist then you

58:25demonstrate so you do do this checklist

58:26in front of the person that you're

58:27trying to bring on then they duplicate

58:30they do the checklist in front of you

58:32what's interesting about that three-step

58:33process is that you'll often find when

58:36you try to demonstrate following the

58:37checklist you don't follow your

58:38checklist and so then you have to adjust

58:40the checklist until you actually follow

58:41the checklist and then when you can

58:43consistently follow that checklist and

58:44get the output then you can have them do

58:46that checklist and so I think this is

58:48why bootstrap Founders uh I think often

58:51times will find they they tend to know

58:54more about more things because they had

58:56to learn them in order to teach them now

58:59what's really interesting about what you

59:00said about accidentally finding that

59:02that star at 3 or four years in is that

59:04I think that happens to almost everyone

59:06well hopefully it the people who end up

59:07making it it happens to almost everyone

59:09um because then you realize oh my God

59:11like if I had four of these people like

59:13we could change the world right say

59:15something as well the other Epiphany

59:17Revelation I had was the star hired

59:20Stars yeah right and so I think of her

59:23name's casy leison of the 10 people she

59:25then hired nine of them became the best

59:26people in my company and also I'm not

59:28going to say his name but someone else

59:29in my business a c player yeah of the 10

59:33people he hired yeah he and everyone he

59:35hired was F so one of the it's so as you

59:39go up in the organization with hires the

59:41risk and reward goes up and so that's

59:43something that a lot of people don't

59:44like talking about but I will um which

59:47is if you hire somebody and let's say

59:50that they're not a cultural fit maybe

59:51they have the skills uh or they are a

59:53cultural fit and they don't have the

59:54skill fit and they're a leader

59:56what you find often and it sucks is that

59:59everyone it's almost like it's like a

1:00:01tree that has an entirely rotten Branch

1:00:03it's like you end up having to scoop out

1:00:05three4 of what was underneath because

1:00:08you realize that they were ineffective

1:00:10or they just were against the actual

1:00:11mission of the business and it's it's

1:00:13harrowing and it's horrible but I try to

1:00:17give this analogy um to my team because

1:00:19we've had to do it in every business we

1:00:21like it happens it's just part of

1:00:22business

1:00:24is if somebody goes to the bar and

1:00:28you're at the club and somebody racks up

1:00:31you know just ordering shots for

1:00:32everybody shots shot shot shot shot

1:00:33shots and then that guy dips that guy

1:00:36leaves we all have to pay the bill in

1:00:39the moment when we pay the bill when we

1:00:41scoop out the Deadwood when we scoop out

1:00:43the rot from the organization it feels

1:00:46horrible but that pain isn't because the

1:00:49scooping out the rot is bad it's because

1:00:52we planted it on bad ground or because

1:00:54that guy ordered all these shop but

1:00:56couldn't afford it and I have a

1:00:57different analogy because I really want

1:00:58to drive this home because I think it's

1:00:59important is that in the in the

1:01:01relationship world if one spouse tells

1:01:05the other spouse hey I cheated on you I

1:01:08had an affair that moment is incredibly

1:01:11painful for both parties and so what it

1:01:13makes you think is oh this was wrong to

1:01:16tell the truth but it's not wrong to

1:01:19tell the truth what's wrong was cheating

1:01:21when you tell the truth is when you make

1:01:23it right and so the pain that you often

1:01:25have to to encounter in organization

1:01:27feels wrong but is right because that

1:01:31was you're you're writing a wrong and

1:01:33that's where the pain occurs and that's

1:01:35why so many businesses stay stuck is

1:01:36because they have this affair they have

1:01:39this person and they're unwilling to

1:01:40have that hard conversation or multiple

1:01:42in order to make it right and they stay

1:01:44stuck for

1:01:45years this is

1:01:47another quality of really successful

1:01:49Founders that I've noticed which is what

1:01:51you just said is the ability to have the

1:01:52hard conversation sooner and in my first

1:01:55um in my Folia where there's firsttime

1:01:56Founders they're coming to me and in our

1:02:00like uh monthly meeting saying God

1:02:02there's this guy who's running the Ecom

1:02:04Division and he's so bad and I'm having

1:02:06to do the job for him what do I do about

1:02:07it Steve what do you

1:02:10think but then they come back to me two

1:02:12weeks later and they're like he's still

1:02:13there yeah right A year later and you're

1:02:15like it's still John you know you're

1:02:16like what are we talking about here I

1:02:18remember asking him when at such meeting

1:02:20uh does JN know that you're unhappy with

1:02:22him oh yeah

1:02:23no so there this quiet dis

1:02:26faction which I think is a virus right

1:02:29right and what what no one wants to

1:02:30discuss is the fact that everyone else

1:02:32knows John sucks amen and that that

1:02:34becomes the minimum standard for what is

1:02:36acceptable for excellence in the

1:02:38organization and so I think like so if

1:02:41brand is what your reputation is

1:02:43externally I think culture is kind of

1:02:44what reputation is internally and so I

1:02:47Define culture operationalized because I

1:02:48think culture is a very fluffy word what

1:02:50does that mean right it's the rules that

1:02:51govern reinforcement within organization

1:02:53what do we reward what do we punish and

1:02:55so the thing is is that there's

1:02:57realistically there's like people have

1:02:59values because they're bundled terms

1:03:01that lad up many behaviors if I said

1:03:05Rolls-Royce probably would have some

1:03:07value that's quality over speed probably

1:03:09right and so they would have that but

1:03:11somebody would have to say like what

1:03:12does that mean right well we hope that

1:03:15we use this as a decision-making filter

1:03:17for how it affects behaviors on every

1:03:20situation so that when you're in the

1:03:22should I go fast or should I make it

1:03:24right you make it right and there are

1:03:26other organizations kind of like the

1:03:27speed uh justice and mercy speed and

1:03:29quality both of them are important and

1:03:32sometimes they sit diametrically opposed

1:03:34and so it's like we have to say where do

1:03:35we sit in the gray so that we can

1:03:37duplicate decision-making across the

1:03:38organization so that we can maintain the

1:03:40culture and so culture uh you know lless

1:03:44this is a lot but culture I think this

1:03:45is a drer quote actually U culture

1:03:47Trump's strategy like twice week and

1:03:50every day on Sunday if you have a

1:03:51mediocre strategy but an unbelievable

1:03:53culture you will crush somebody who has

1:03:54a great strategy and a terrible culture

1:03:56because culture Lads up to Performance

1:03:58and execution and almost every business

1:03:59is limited by execution not strategy

1:04:01most business strategies isn't that

1:04:02complicated like let's do a really good

1:04:04job so good that people tell their

1:04:05friends about us and as long as we have

1:04:07enough gross margin we'll make money

1:04:08it's not that hard right it's just that

1:04:10the doing it is the hard part and so so

1:04:13when we have these uh they are the

1:04:15spoken and unspoken roles mostly

1:04:17unspoken if someone shows up 3 minutes

1:04:19late to a meeting and there's 10 people

1:04:20in the meeting and it's supposed to be a

1:04:21marketing meeting and I'm there if I

1:04:23don't say anything I have now said we

1:04:27have an unspoken rule that if someone

1:04:28shows up 3 minutes slate to a meeting

1:04:29it's okay I've I've reinforced that rule

1:04:32now if I I've reinforce it by not

1:04:34punishing the behavior or at least

1:04:35calling it out um on the flip side if

1:04:38someone comes in and I berate them

1:04:40that's also a way of changing Behavior

1:04:42maybe not the right way to do it um but

1:04:45I could then like what do you do in that

1:04:47situation someone shows up 3 minutes

1:04:48late um first off you would probably

1:04:54sideline with that person be like hey

1:04:56I don't know if you realized that you

1:04:57were 3 minutes late what happened and

1:05:00they're like I was on a client call um

1:05:02it went late I'm really sorry or I was

1:05:05on a sales call for me in my

1:05:07organization clients in sales like will

1:05:09take priority so if you have a meeting

1:05:11and you're on a sale and you're about to

1:05:12close it close the sale right but if you

1:05:15were just doing nothing and we have this

1:05:18meeting then this is the priority and so

1:05:20the next time we hop on I'll be like hey

1:05:22guys I just want to address something

1:05:23John was late he was late because of

1:05:25aale call or when I dm' him right as he

1:05:28got on late I would say hey make sure

1:05:29you say that and be like hey guys sorry

1:05:31I was late I was on a sales call and

1:05:32then I would say that's fine you're good

1:05:35to go always go make money yeah and then

1:05:37I'm reinforcing the right thing yeah

1:05:39right and so I think we're very big on

1:05:41rapid feedback um in the moment because

1:05:44that's how you train Behavior so if you

1:05:45look

1:05:46at if so there's tons of studies on this

1:05:48but basically if you want to train a dog

1:05:50right um and you want it to sit if you

1:05:53have it sit and then immediately give a

1:05:55biscuit it learns really quickly if you

1:05:58have it sit and then wait 10 seconds

1:06:01before you give a biscuit it takes like

1:06:02three times as many repetitions for it

1:06:04to learn that the that the sitting gets

1:06:06the biscuit if you wait more than a

1:06:08minute it never learns really it just

1:06:10you can see the learning curve the

1:06:11amount of repetitions just skyrockets

1:06:13until eventually there is no amount but

1:06:15here's where it gets crazy that biscuit

1:06:17is still reinforcing something just not

1:06:19sitting it's reinforcing the thing that

1:06:22just came before it so if we want people

1:06:24to do something we have to change in the

1:06:25moment and so when we train and I think

1:06:27that we're we're a training organization

1:06:29we're very good at training whatever

1:06:31skills um is engineering ways to give

1:06:36many feedback loops in a short period of

1:06:38time around uh specific skills so I use

1:06:41sales because it's one that everyone

1:06:42understands if you're training a script

1:06:45with someone at the if you if you let

1:06:48someone read through a script and then

1:06:49at the end you say Hey you know here

1:06:51here's the things you could have done

1:06:52better blah this is how 95% of people

1:06:54train it's also doesn't work mhm we set

1:06:57the premise with you're going to read

1:06:58through the script and in the first 30

1:07:00minutes we might get through a third of

1:07:01it and I'm going to probably stop you

1:07:03like 30 times and if that happens it

1:07:05means we're doing it right so we set the

1:07:06premise that I'm going to interrupt you

1:07:07a bunch of times and as soon as you say

1:07:09the first line I'm going be like stop

1:07:11say it again say it like this go again

1:07:14and then they're like okay and they say

1:07:15it and I'm like awesome job do it again

1:07:17awesome job do it again so I reinforce

1:07:20it as many times I can okay go to the

1:07:21second sentence right now do first and

1:07:23second right do second and third right

1:07:24and you keep working working your way

1:07:25through until eventually they just say

1:07:27like a whistle they can sing it because

1:07:28they've also had so many repetitions and

1:07:30so many feedback loops that they're like

1:07:31this is what it sounds like when it's

1:07:33right and I think that the vast vast

1:07:35majority of organizations have no idea

1:07:37how to train and their entire training

1:07:40their their way of getting Talent is

1:07:42just uh let's hire 10 and we'll just see

1:07:45who works out rather than being able to

1:07:46take someone and level them up and I

1:07:48think that the ability to train is one

1:07:50of the largest Alphas that exist in

1:07:52organizations because if you can buy

1:07:54Talent at at B skill and get them to A+

1:07:57then you net the Delta and profit

1:08:00between what you had to attract and pay

1:08:01the person to come and what they perform

1:08:03at if you have to use a picking strategy

1:08:05then you have to pay for ex for current

1:08:07market rate of the skill and so you

1:08:09actually eat into margin because you

1:08:11don't know how to train there are

1:08:13advantages to speed and sometimes it

1:08:14still makes sense to bring in the talent

1:08:16because maybe the training requires so

1:08:18much time that it's not worth it and so

1:08:21from a hiring perspective because I we

1:08:22were just talking this is the theme we

1:08:25always want to hire for the smallest

1:08:26skilled deficiency and so in low skilled

1:08:29labor for example if we have a cupcake

1:08:31uh Bakery and I need somebody to work

1:08:33the counter that is pretty low skilled

1:08:36labor and so if there's a number of

1:08:39skills that are required being able to

1:08:40be on time smile be nice those things

1:08:43are bundled terms that have many skills

1:08:45underneath of them right whereas

1:08:48teaching someone how to use the register

1:08:49might take like 30 minutes and so it

1:08:52makes sense to hire for attitude and

1:08:54then train aptitude when you have low

1:08:56skilled

1:08:57labor when you have really high skilled

1:09:00labor I can't teach someone 10 years of

1:09:03being a CFO for m&a just just an extreme

1:09:06example right and so in that instance we

1:09:10still hire for the smallest skilled

1:09:11deficiency but I can probably teach

1:09:14someone to be nice under these

1:09:15circumstances faster than I can teach

1:09:18them to be a CFO if they have everything

1:09:20that I want here obviously you would

1:09:21want both but the world is imp perfect

1:09:23and so we just try to hire for the

1:09:24smallest SK Gap and attitude is a series

1:09:28of skills and so instead instead of

1:09:30thinking of things as an attitude and

1:09:31aptitude just think of everything as

1:09:32skills and then we hire always for the

1:09:34smallest efficiency mhm the thing that's

1:09:37easiest to train up yeah okay one of the

1:09:39things that's so Central to that is we

1:09:41were saying about giving people feedback

1:09:44and I wrote down most companies and most

1:09:46entrepreneurs and Founders are scared to

1:09:48give Petty feedback oh because if like I

1:09:52might notice you're making a slight

1:09:54error yeah but if feels Petty to point

1:09:56that out it feels like I'm some kind of

1:09:58rude dictator yeah why is that so

1:10:02important and how do you create an

1:10:03environment I'm totally good with that

1:10:05yeah I a lot of people aren't I I have

1:10:06lots of managers on my teams and they

1:10:08don't want to offend people their

1:10:09Central focus is too much on being nice

1:10:11and it's dude kind not nice it's one of

1:10:14our one of our one of our cultural you

1:10:16know I wouldn't say it's not the one on

1:10:18the site but things that are repeated

1:10:19internally all the time K not nice is

1:10:21one of the big ones which is that you're

1:10:23actually being unkind to someone by not

1:10:26maximizing the likely that they succeed

1:10:27in their

1:10:28role and people don't lose jobs because

1:10:31typically because of one thing it's

1:10:32usually a hundred small things and so if

1:10:34we can immediately fix those hundred

1:10:36Small Things most people want to do a

1:10:38good job and most people want to succeed

1:10:40and most people want to move up and we

1:10:42can maximize the likelihood that those

1:10:43things occur if we help them

1:10:46and this is where the culture is there

1:10:49if on that first day like I said we say

1:10:51we're going to work through the script

1:10:52and we're only going to get through a

1:10:53third of it I'm going to stop you 30

1:10:54times to correct you we've already kind

1:10:55of set the expectations of how things go

1:10:58here like we will fix things and we will

1:11:00fix them fast and it's understanding the

1:11:02difference and I we teach our teams this

1:11:04is what is the difference between an

1:11:05insult and criticism so criticism is a

1:11:09discrepancy between actual and desired

1:11:11so you were supposed to be on time and

1:11:13this week you were late twice and so

1:11:15that is

1:11:16discrepancy and you're lazy is the

1:11:18insult and so the Judgment that's

1:11:21associated with the discrepancy is

1:11:23insulting someone pointing out the

1:11:24discrepancy is purely criticism and

1:11:26that's objective and so if you want to

1:11:28improve the team remove insults focus on

1:11:31criticism and tell them what to do

1:11:32instead and so the easiest way to think

1:11:34through this I think is stop start keep

1:11:38so I'll tell you a real story so we had

1:11:41um we had a we had a a director level so

1:11:44a relatively High person um in the

1:11:46organization who was having um behavior

1:11:49issues uh oh said differently everyone

1:11:52thinks you're a

1:11:53dick and so so he ended up making his

1:11:56rounds of the executive team uh and

1:11:59having a sit down with all of them

1:12:01because he was really proficient at the

1:12:02scale he's high performer like good at

1:12:03what he does just no one liked him and

1:12:05so um he talks to four different

1:12:08Executives and the behavior didn't

1:12:09change and so he finally came to to my

1:12:12office and he was like a little bit

1:12:13worried and he was and he was like am I

1:12:15going to get fired and I was like no HR

1:12:17will fire you if you're going to get

1:12:17fired you're not going to meet with me

1:12:19what are we talking about um but when we

1:12:21sat down I said Okay I want to be clear

1:12:25I want to decrease the likelihood that

1:12:26people call you a dick in the future I

1:12:27was said does that sound like an

1:12:29agreeable goal and he said yeah I don't

1:12:31I want that I was like okay good I also

1:12:33don't care if you are a dick I just care

1:12:35that everyone else thinks you are and so

1:12:38I just want to minimize likely that I

1:12:39get drawn into this ever again

1:12:42so the reasons that they are calling you

1:12:44a dick we need to dive into that because

1:12:46every other conversation you'd had with

1:12:48you know some of the leaders was just

1:12:49like hey man stop being a dick and the

1:12:51thing is is what do you do with that

1:12:53nothing you just get insulted

1:12:55and then you have nothing to do and so

1:12:57instead it's like okay when you cut

1:13:00people off when they

1:13:02talk stop start keep doing do this

1:13:06instead shut up so when someone else is

1:13:09talking wait until they finish and if

1:13:11you're not sure ask if they're done it's

1:13:13like

1:13:14okay when uh you give unsolicited advice

1:13:19on how they should run their Department

1:13:21don't or ask if they want it if if they

1:13:25say no don't say anything and so we

1:13:28identified three or four behaviors that

1:13:29he was doing and I said just do this

1:13:32instead and literally the next week

1:13:34people were like what happened to him

1:13:35he's like a new man and the thing is is

1:13:37that he wasn't a dick he just didn't

1:13:39know how to behave and so if you want to

1:13:42teach teaching has to come from

1:13:44conditions and a behavior and so if

1:13:46you're trying to get someone to be

1:13:48different you have to give them the

1:13:49conditions under which they need to

1:13:50change so when someone says this if this

1:13:52occurs there's a condition and then this

1:13:54is you need to do and so the vast

1:13:56majority of training that exists does

1:13:58none of that it's just people shouting

1:14:00at each other insulting them and saying

1:14:02hey you need to level up you need to you

1:14:04need to get you know you need to

1:14:05increase your performance what does that

1:14:07mean and so I think one of the easiest

1:14:10ways to identify the actual Behavior

1:14:12because that's actually the tough part

1:14:13is like why do I think he's a dick why

1:14:15do I think she's lazy because I want to

1:14:18insult them but that's not so how do I

1:14:20help her it's like okay why am I

1:14:22describing her this way okay so when I

1:14:24slack she she tends to be slow in her

1:14:26response so sometimes it takes an hour

1:14:28sometimes three hours I'm like okay so

1:14:29I'm going to gather that data and be

1:14:30like okay so when I talk to her I'm like

1:14:32I'm going to have this this branch of

1:14:33data the next thing is when I get stuff

1:14:36uh you know projects from her they are

1:14:39incomplete I feel like they're not all

1:14:41the way fleshed out I'm like okay that's

1:14:43a second second bucket um the next one

1:14:45is that when she shows up on Zoom she

1:14:48looks disheveled I'm like okay so now

1:14:50when I talk to Sandy I'm not going to

1:14:53say hey Sandy you look lazy need you to

1:14:55level up a little bit here otherwise

1:14:57we're going to have issues and have to

1:14:58put you on a pip performance Improvement

1:14:59plan right instead of saying that just

1:15:02put her on the performance Improvement

1:15:03plan without saying it's performance

1:15:04Improvement plan and just

1:15:06say when you show up on calls change

1:15:10your background to like the the standard

1:15:11company setting so we don't see your

1:15:13bedroom right and and make sure that

1:15:15from the waist up you look professional

1:15:17and what do why I mean by look

1:15:19professional have a collared shirt and

1:15:21put your hair back okay now some people

1:15:23like how does that work at in woke

1:15:25politics no idea deal with it in your

1:15:26country but like you should have a

1:15:28culture where you can say stuff like

1:15:29that the second thing is that right now

1:15:31I need you to turn on slack

1:15:32notifications and I need you to respond

1:15:34within within 10 minutes okay during

1:15:36work hours after work hours fine but you

1:15:39know 9 to5 you have to respond within 10

1:15:41minutes do you think you can do that yes

1:15:42and so the end goal here is like I will

1:15:44get everyone to stop calling you

1:15:46lazy and this is how we do it it's

1:15:48interesting because it goes back to

1:15:49something you were saying earlier where

1:15:50you were saying specifics versus vague

1:15:52yeah prefrontal cortex versus amigdala

1:15:54like insult is amigdala totally can't do

1:15:56anything with that but if you make it

1:15:58specific then action is more likely to

1:16:01occur and useful action is more likely

1:16:03to occur um on on this point of a person

1:16:05who's listening now who's an

1:16:06entrepreneur they've got a business yeah

1:16:08and they're thinking about making those

1:16:09first hires I want you to throw a

1:16:11proposition at you to see what you

1:16:12thought of this one of the things that I

1:16:14think can help you not [ __ ] up in the

1:16:16hiring process especially early is if

1:16:18you just live it with the permanent

1:16:20assumption that you are bad at hiring so

1:16:22I live with the permanent assumption

1:16:24that I'm bad at hiring because I've got

1:16:25biases there's things I don't know about

1:16:27certain things Etc and when you start

1:16:29with that assumption that you are really

1:16:31really bad at hiring you try and

1:16:33decentralize the decision- making so one

1:16:35thing I say a lot to Startup Founders is

1:16:38if you're hiring a salesperson create an

1:16:40interview process where there's five

1:16:41people and one of them might be you and

1:16:44the other four are the best salesp

1:16:46people you've ever encountered in your

1:16:47life like who sold you your house yeah

1:16:49and ask them ask them to be part of the

1:16:52interview process how does that sit with

1:16:54you I think it sits great and I think

1:16:56that the amount of references that you

1:16:58go for is proportional to the importance

1:17:00of the role okay so say I'm the

1:17:02co-founder of school um when he so he

1:17:04was a non-technical Founder who school

1:17:06what is school sorry oh so school's uh

1:17:07school.com is uh a platform for building

1:17:09communities right now it's online but we

1:17:11have an inperson component so that

1:17:12people can meet online then meet in

1:17:13person it's awesome and so that's the

1:17:16only investment that I've publicly uh

1:17:19Associated myself with outside of

1:17:20acquisition. comom so it's a very big

1:17:22deal it's something I believe in a lot

1:17:23because it's education it's where

1:17:25education and media meet

1:17:27um Sam is the is the is the founder of

1:17:30school and he is not Technical and so he

1:17:34knew that to build an exceptional

1:17:35software product you need worldclass

1:17:37talent and so he interviewed 600

1:17:42developers to find Daniel who' become

1:17:45the CTO of school and he asked everybody

1:17:49to know who the best coders were and

1:17:51then he talked to all those people and

1:17:53then he asked them who the best coder

1:17:54they knew was and he talked to those

1:17:56people and then he asked them who they

1:17:57thought the best coder they knew was and

1:18:00eventually like Daniel's name came up as

1:18:02like god tier he's like if you can ever

1:18:04get this guy he'd be amazing and so he

1:18:07ended up finding a way in to find Daniel

1:18:10and then he ended up becoming a

1:18:12co-founder of school as well and what's

1:18:15interesting about that process is that

1:18:17it actually Lads into uh rapid learning

1:18:22and so when I was a consultant you I was

1:18:2422 years old

1:18:25and I would go and have to give

1:18:27presentations to fourstar generals right

1:18:29about about weapon systems that I knew

1:18:31nothing about cuz I was you know

1:18:33chugging beers like 12 months earlier

1:18:35right um and so how do you sound

1:18:37intelligent in front of somebody who has

1:18:3930 years more experience than you do and

1:18:43so this is the Consulting process for

1:18:44Rapid

1:18:45learning first is you find five experts

1:18:49so you ask the one person you're like

1:18:51hey tell me the five people you know who

1:18:53are the best at this thing and then you

1:18:54ask them who are the five people you

1:18:55know who are who are who also know a ton

1:18:58about this thing and for each of the

1:18:59interviews you take all of their their

1:19:01information down of like what do you

1:19:02think about this what do you think about

1:19:03this what do you think this and what

1:19:04happens you start mapping kind of like

1:19:06the E the information ecosystem and the

1:19:08reason you talk to experts first is that

1:19:09there's no lack of information like you

1:19:11can Google whatever you want the problem

1:19:12is there's too much and so the filter

1:19:14becomes where the highest point of

1:19:15Leverage is and so experts have spent

1:19:17years filtering out for what's important

1:19:19and so then you basically rapidly

1:19:21consume the most filtered information

1:19:23and then you reor organize the

1:19:25information and so this is what a

1:19:26typical analyst will do as a consultant

1:19:28is like I would so for the space and

1:19:29cyber project that I did I we had 600

1:19:32pages of notes from all the interviews

1:19:33that we did first step is you

1:19:35recategorize all all the newes by

1:19:37category so it goes from raw notes to

1:19:39categorized notes then from there you

1:19:41distill and consolidate notes into what

1:19:43are the what are the TR truths or the

1:19:47the most distilled beliefs that we have

1:19:49about these particular in this case

1:19:50weapon systems but it could be whatever

1:19:53and then from there you're able to

1:19:55generate your inferences for what the

1:19:57what it looks like when it's right what

1:19:59the problems are what potential

1:20:00Solutions might be and then that's

1:20:02fundamentally how you say this is what

1:20:04we need to do next that's if you're

1:20:05trying to learn something but in talking

1:20:07to all those people it actually works

1:20:09the same way because the interview

1:20:10process the higher up the talent is the

1:20:13more I would encourage entrepreneurs to

1:20:14use it as a learning process as a

1:20:16consultant and so I present somebody who

1:20:19wants to come in for this role the

1:20:20actual problems of the business for

1:20:23which they would have control over and

1:20:24say how would you solve these and so

1:20:26then they tell me all the things that

1:20:27they would be considering and what

1:20:28they're thinking about and then I'll ask

1:20:30the next guy what he thinks and what he

1:20:31thinks and what he thinks or she thinks

1:20:33and then all of a sudden one I get free

1:20:34consulting which is amazing but secondly

1:20:36you can tell by how the quality and

1:20:39quantity of metrics that someone tracks

1:20:42how good they are at a particular scale

1:20:44and so this is fundamentally what

1:20:45separates beginners from experts and so

1:20:48beginners typically have binary thinking

1:20:49in terms of outcomes either it worked or

1:20:51it didn't work an expert for example for

1:20:53a marketing campaign

1:20:55isn't going to say oh marketing doesn't

1:20:57work or ads don't work they're going to

1:20:58say this particular campaign didn't work

1:21:01because our click-through rate was too

1:21:02low or because it was sending traffic

1:21:04that wasn't qualified and we weren't

1:21:05converting enough on the page or we

1:21:06didn't have enough people who were

1:21:08taking the second step in our four steps

1:21:10and like they can break down any part of

1:21:12those any part of that Continuum if I'm

1:21:14interviewing a salesperson and the

1:21:16person says and I say okay how are you

1:21:19going to affect these metrics what

1:21:21behaviors are are you going to do so to

1:21:23the same degree about vague versus

1:21:24spefic specific if they give me vague

1:21:26things back I'm going to dial in and say

1:21:27no what are you going to do that's going

1:21:29to change that and by the way this is a

1:21:31wonderful way to teach in the

1:21:32organization how what they do makes a

1:21:34business money and so if you have like a

1:21:36customer support rep for example and you

1:21:38say Hey how do you make our company

1:21:41money if they can't explain it to you

1:21:43they probably aren't doing it and it

1:21:46sounds as simple as it is but if someone

1:21:47says well you know I answer customers

1:21:50questions and it's like how does that

1:21:51make us money now if they're able to say

1:21:54when I answer customers questions I

1:21:56increase the likely that they refer

1:21:58other customers and I increase the

1:21:59likelihood that they stay and continue

1:22:00to pay for us so I help us get new

1:22:02customers by delivering an amazing

1:22:04experience and I get the customers that

1:22:05we have to continue to pay us and if it

1:22:08makes sense I recommend other products

1:22:09and services that we have that I can

1:22:11introduce them to sales guys who can

1:22:12explain that so we generate even more

1:22:14revenue from them I'd be like one if you

1:22:16can articulate that you're probably not

1:22:17just a front like us you're probably a

1:22:20director right and so that level of

1:22:22nuance the specificity is what shows

1:22:25expertise and so when I look for and I'm

1:22:28interviewing uh for candidates I first I

1:22:31I want to gather this once information

1:22:32as I can I want to drain as much

1:22:34knowledge as possible but I'm also

1:22:36really looking for the quality and

1:22:37quantity of metrics they track and

1:22:39behaviors that they do to influence

1:22:41those metrics so in the hypothetical

1:22:44problem that let's say we're trying to

1:22:45solve uh we have low clickthrough rates

1:22:46I'd be like okay this is the problem we

1:22:48have how would you approach changing it

1:22:51right and then that actually gets me to

1:22:53understand what they would do in the

1:22:55organization because it's very easy to

1:22:56say uh you know I'm going to come in and

1:22:58let's say a sales director I'm going to

1:22:59come in and I'm going to I'm going to

1:23:00improve the the sales team I'm like okay

1:23:02cool what are you going to do you know

1:23:03I'm going to coach the guys up I'm like

1:23:04okay what does that mean and so just

1:23:06continuing to ask what does that mean

1:23:08how do you do that until they're like

1:23:10okay well I'm going to meet with the

1:23:12guys every single morning and we're

1:23:13going to do role play all right how do

1:23:15you role playay well we're going to

1:23:16start with the script and we're like the

1:23:18more detailed they get the more I

1:23:20believe they can do it because they've

1:23:21actually explained what actions they

1:23:23will take if someone can't dial into

1:23:25actions then it's very unlikely that

1:23:27they're going to take them and so what I

1:23:29just outlined is basically Three core

1:23:31things so one is the quality and

1:23:32quantity of metrics that they track the

1:23:34second is the behaviors that they're

1:23:36going to do to influence those metrics

1:23:37and then lading up to Third how do those

1:23:40metrics and these behaviors influence

1:23:41the revenue in the business if they can

1:23:43explain that clearly you have a

1:23:45winner all of that

1:23:48is requires them to know if the person's

1:23:52not

1:23:52bullshitting and also to know like what

1:23:54metrics matter right cuz someone could

1:23:56sit in an interview if for my firsttime

1:23:57founder say a bunch of big complicated

1:23:59words it sounds good I hire them and

1:24:02that's really what I'm trying to

1:24:03mitigate here is how do I not let a

1:24:04[ __ ] a pass me so assume I know

1:24:07nothing let's start there what do you

1:24:10think customer service

1:24:12means and

1:24:14so if someone really has expertise so

1:24:17Richard fan was famous this the

1:24:18physicist which is if you can't explain

1:24:20it to a child then you don't understand

1:24:21it well enough and so if they do confuse

1:24:24you it means that they don't understand

1:24:25it or they're doing it purposefully

1:24:27neither of which are good scenarios you

1:24:30said something during during that

1:24:32explanation you said you were talking

1:24:34about your like your founding partner at

1:24:36school and you said that he was pursuing

1:24:38a CTO and he said if we can get this guy

1:24:42he'd be amazing yeah so many

1:24:43entrepreneurs that are starting in

1:24:45business have that thought sometimes

1:24:47they think if I could just get that guy

1:24:49from that amazing company to come join

1:24:51our garage where we're building this new

1:24:53startup it would change our

1:24:55fortunes but how how do I get a truly

1:24:58exceptional person who is being paid

1:25:01[ __ ] tons of money who has a comfortable

1:25:03job who has security to come join me in

1:25:05my

1:25:07bedroom well I think there's there's the

1:25:09soft and the hard side right so the hard

1:25:11side is the is compensation maybe you

1:25:14don't have as much cash so it's like

1:25:15you're going to have you know a few

1:25:17levers at your disposal so you have what

1:25:19do you pay them in cash what's their

1:25:21upside if there's Equity or shares that

1:25:22you're going to give them this is

1:25:23obviously if it's soft software business

1:25:24you can and I'm you know it's probably

1:25:26worth segmenting this so if you're not

1:25:28in a software company which is probably

1:25:29the vast majority of people listening to

1:25:31this there are four elements within

1:25:34Equity that that that exist you have

1:25:37control so who gets to call the shots

1:25:39you have risk what happens if everything

1:25:41goes wrong who's liable you have profits

1:25:45which is the cash flow of the business

1:25:46who gets distributions and then

1:25:48basically sale or Enterprise Value when

1:25:51we sell or if we sell who gets to

1:25:53participate in that upside those are

1:25:54kind of the four elements of equity now

1:25:56the thing is is that you can obviously

1:25:58Grant shares or you can give stock in a

1:26:01company that's one way of doing it but

1:26:03you can also basically contract around

1:26:05any of these things now most of the

1:26:07times they don't want the risk and they

1:26:09probably won't get the control uh if

1:26:11it's your company so you really just

1:26:12have profit and you have uh and you have

1:26:14upside in terms of uh a sale and so you

1:26:18can contract these things and there's

1:26:20lots of structur so I'm not going to get

1:26:21into legal around this um but asking

1:26:23somebody what do want sometimes it's

1:26:25just a very powerful way of beginning

1:26:27this and my favorite question for these

1:26:28types of scenarios is asking what would

1:26:31it

1:26:32take so when you have this guy it's like

1:26:34man it would be amazing like how do I

1:26:35sell this guy I just ask him what would

1:26:37sell you so I say what would it take

1:26:40because I don't know he'll tell me and I

1:26:43love that frame because it assumes

1:26:46yes it assumes you're going to come so

1:26:48what would it take how so many of the

1:26:52books that you you write and so much of

1:26:54the content you make centers on this

1:26:55idea of sales yeah and it is a sale

1:26:58isn't it totally and I I always think

1:27:00about the Steve Jobs quote where he met

1:27:02with was it John Scully who was working

1:27:04at like Pepsi and he said do you want to

1:27:05consider continue selling sugar water

1:27:07for the rest of your life who you want

1:27:08to come change the world yeah um how

1:27:10does that sort of emotional

1:27:12psychological element of this self

1:27:13factor into it persuading someone

1:27:15exceptional to come and join your

1:27:16mission I think it's the amigdala story

1:27:18that we started with the nasal strip

1:27:20thing which now has actually reared its

1:27:21nose multiple times poked its nose in a

1:27:23few times here but I think that pitch

1:27:25that you're giving to a potential

1:27:27co-founder or potential early hire who's

1:27:29going to be a leader is the same more or

1:27:31less that you'd give to an investor it's

1:27:33almost the same pitch except instead of

1:27:35investing Capital they're investing time

1:27:36they're investing their life they're

1:27:37investing their expertise but

1:27:39fundamentally you're asking for

1:27:40investment I'm just asking

1:27:42you there's also this weird question

1:27:45which I've I've actually never asked

1:27:46anybody but Founders often struggle with

1:27:50do I hire naivity because that's going

1:27:53to probably create new solutions to Old

1:27:55problems like the young Scrappy kid that

1:27:57gets Tik Tok or do I hire experience

1:28:01which is going to be more expensive more

1:28:02conventional and safe and I see some

1:28:04companies lean too far either way

1:28:07yeah I have actually fairly strong

1:28:10opinions on this oh great so I actually

1:28:12think it's um and I was talking to the

1:28:14CEO of butcher boox about this

1:28:15particular thing um last

1:28:17week I think it's a barbell strategy

1:28:20where you have people on either ends and

1:28:22very little in the middle interesting so

1:28:25I love lots of young hungry people who

1:28:28are here for growth and want to learn

1:28:30and are ready to work long hours and

1:28:32just go all

1:28:34in and the people at the call it the L

1:28:37the back half of their career that are

1:28:40here that they they've made enough money

1:28:42they know they can get a job wherever

1:28:43they feel like it you're not doing them

1:28:46a favor by giving them a job and they're

1:28:48not what I a term I hate which is

1:28:50careerists they're not obsessed with

1:28:52their title they're not obsessed

1:28:54obsessed with their career path what

1:28:55their promotion plan is going to be they

1:28:57basically have a litmus test which is

1:28:59like I have to have make about this to

1:29:00get to come in and do this with you but

1:29:02they actually just really love the work

1:29:05and so these people are learning so the

1:29:07young people are learning and and

1:29:09overcompensating with tons of hours and

1:29:11Reps and these people are bringing their

1:29:13experience to the game and creating

1:29:15significantly more leverage with

1:29:16strategy the people in the middle are

1:29:18the ones that tend to be the pain in the

1:29:20ass for everybody and I don't think and

1:29:22be clear here I don't think this is