Full transcript
0:00[Music]
0:08welcome back everyone you're watching we
0:10heart therapy the special series ent
0:12talk I'm your host dr. Annabel Bugatti
0:15licensed Marriage and Family Therapist
0:16and certified EMT supervisor and
0:19therapist here in Fabulous Las Vegas
0:21Nevada
0:22we have a very exciting guest today we
0:24have Kenny stander fir he is the asou
0:28likes to call the EFT cowboy he is the
0:31EFT trainer in Tennessee he's founder of
0:35the Tennessee Center for EFT he also has
0:38a clinical practice on music row in
0:41Nashville and he's an adjunct professor
0:44sometimes at the university out there in
0:47Tennessee and he just does phenomenal
0:49work and we're very excited to happen to
0:52our show and today we're going to be
0:54talking about attachment needs and
0:57emotions and how to explain these to
1:00with jars or the type of clients that
1:03have led very independent lives and
1:06they're very happy even though they are
1:07in marriages and don't understand why
1:10their spouse wants more contact and why
1:13this is a big deal so Thank You Kenny
1:17for being on our show glad to be here so
1:21if you could start us off maybe could we
1:23talk about the nature of attachment
1:26needs and what those are a little bit
1:29more specifically yeah I mean you know
1:32there the basic basic basic attachment
1:35needs or comfort reassurance connection
1:39closeness care those are the ones that
1:42really are the foundation at the
1:44foundation of who we all are there's
1:46also the the emotions to those core
1:51emotions that are really related in many
1:54ways connected to those attachment and
1:59needs and longings that we're having
2:01that there's you know they're ones that
2:03we usually typically refer to your sad
2:05angry fear shame joy and surprise and so
2:12yeah
2:13it really is at the center of the core
2:16of who we are and and we we come into
2:20this world with those it's interesting
2:22to me to think about even babies now we
2:27know that they already in many times in
2:30the last trimester they've already can
2:32recognize mom's voice they can recognize
2:35dad's voice they even can recognize
2:38mom's preference for food and so it
2:42really happens very very early and then
2:46of course the first thing that happens
2:48when a child is born is it's brought up
2:51real close to mom's face right she's
2:55it's held and cuddled so from the very
2:57beginning there's the comfort and the
2:59reassurance and all those things that we
3:02all need and of course that starts out
3:04in a in a very big way that I mean
3:06they're very dependent on us for that
3:09very hard and for a child to
3:12self-regulate right so it's impossible
3:15for a baby to self-regulate and that's a
3:17process that kind of develops over time
3:21you know and then it takes us to
3:24adulthood always we know I think things
3:30so much Jeff Simpsons works long-term
3:32for studies and stuff we know that
3:34attachment style or coping strategy
3:37which I prefer using that we develop
3:40happens very early in life and has a lot
3:43to do with our early caretakers for sure
3:45it's sort of the blueprint for how we do
3:48relationships but to me the unbelievable
3:53part of that or the neat part of that is
3:55is that even though it's a blueprint the
3:58ink never dries we can have other other
4:02relationships can shape us and move us
4:06you know to more maybe toward more
4:09secure places or sometimes maybe more so
4:12insecure places but it's just
4:15interesting to me that how how doesn't
4:17take but just a few people really
4:21reaching out in meeting those core
4:25attachment needs for comfort
4:27connection and reassurance to really
4:29change who we are and that's a pretty
4:34significant thing I think so I think
4:36that was very beautifully said I love
4:37how you said that attachment is you know
4:41our blueprint or early attachment but
4:43the ink never dries that's that's so
4:46perfect that's so beautiful and I also
4:48love how you mention that babies in the
4:51womb can also detect the sound of Brahms
4:54voice which I'm sort of connecting to I
4:57know some of the neuro scientific
5:01research that's come out talked about
5:03how porosity in our voice is the only
5:06unambiguous cue of safety so I wonder if
5:09because that's maybe the first thing
5:11that's that's developed in human beings
5:14is that audible detection in people's
5:17voice for safety room were were picking
5:20that up so it makes sense why that would
5:23be still so salient even in adults and
5:27see what's important is if our early
5:30attachment relationships are blueprint
5:33so you know let's talk about the type of
5:36clients who you know their parents
5:39worked a lot when they were little kids
5:41and they were left on their own not
5:44necessarily in a neglectful way but in a
5:47like and maybe it could be considered
5:49neglect but a more you know entertain
5:52yourselves go out and play with your
5:54friends and the neighborhood kids and
5:56they learned just to entertain
5:58themselves and and you know they didn't
6:01spend a lot of time at home and then
6:03they also maybe got jobs I have a lot of
6:05clients particularly I find this common
6:08in male clients but it may not be gender
6:09specific but you know they might have
6:12started getting jobs at like twelve
6:14thirteen you know washing neighbors cars
6:17or you know loading at the docks or
6:20whatever I mean there's and so with them
6:23going to work so early I find that as
6:26adults they're still really thrust
6:29themselves into working a lot in their
6:32marriages they're always keeping busy
6:35they have a hard time just kind of
6:37relaxing and they're they don't describe
6:40having
6:41barring any needs for closeness and why
6:45their partners get so emotional what's
6:48the big deal you know if you just give
6:51me sex every now and then I'm fine you
6:54know they say that they don't have many
6:55needs and sometimes they'll even say
6:57they don't have any needs and that feels
7:00like a curveball if you're saying you
7:02don't have any needs which I know isn't
7:04true but how he you know talk about this
7:09in a language that's gonna help that
7:12client understand yeah I'm out I can
7:15relate to that I think we all can you
7:17work with clients I mean I've I've heard
7:19it it can be so simple as where do you
7:21want to eat you know where do you want
7:22to eat out you know I don't worry where
7:24do you want to eat out well know where
7:27do you want to eat out well I don't
7:29matter just tell me where you want to
7:30eat out to me of course we can all get
7:34in that one okay but but for a
7:37withdrawal they really really really are
7:39more aware of whether or not aware of
7:42their needs well for the first thing we
7:44don't know what we feel we really don't
7:47know what we need so it really starts
7:49there so if I grew up in a household or
7:53a situation where if I hurt you know
7:58emotionally physically experience pain
8:01or whatever and I don't know one really
8:03responds to that to my call for help I
8:07learned very inmate maybe even might be
8:10dangerous for me too in some settings to
8:12be vulnerable and to let somebody in on
8:15the fact that I'm hurt whether and
8:18especially an emotional pain I mean come
8:20in from I'm having a bad day at school
8:21you know you just kind of go to your
8:23room instead of going and turn into
8:25somebody so I mean so you
8:27I think the activity and we look at the
8:30strange situation the more avoidant
8:33children they turn to activities they
8:35turn to play it's a way of
8:38self-regulating really are just a
8:40distraction to me a distraction of what
8:44we really need it to core foundation of
8:47who we are and you know it's like why go
8:51to the well to get water up the web at
8:53the water boil
8:54so if I have these emotions that come up
8:59is a young person in a big person's
9:02world and the people around me don't
9:04really respond to me in any way or might
9:07even chastise me dismiss it or it may
9:10hurt worse that it sort of drops flat no
9:12one responds to me than it is to hurt
9:14it's just it's easier to have and it
9:17makes sense really that you would forget
9:20guess your emotional survival you'd have
9:22to come up with coping strategies to
9:24where you just suck it up and deal with
9:26it on your own tough it out yeah very
9:30much so
9:31so how do you begin to even have that
9:34conversation with somebody who's built
9:37these strategies as to why this is
9:39important for or necessary in their
9:43relationship well I mean it depends on
9:47the person obviously I can think of a
9:49client I just had in an intensive here
9:52just day before yesterday who very very
9:56successful incredibly successful in all
10:00areas of their life but in his wife's
10:04eyes he's you know really has failed
10:07them I failed her and the kids in so
10:09many ways
10:11and he would he would say that he didn't
10:15you know know what he was me when he
10:19couldn't feel but he it was just such an
10:21uncomfortable thing and he had always
10:23thought his way out of feeling and which
10:26made him very successful I'm sure but
10:30the problem is of course he couldn't
10:33connect with his wife around that so to
10:36me the beautiful thing about working
10:39with couples is that her pain is she
10:44communicated her pain of not feeling
10:49heard at times or the big thing was not
10:52feeling cherished for her or him even
10:54being curious about her she had
10:57difficulty understanding why he wasn't
10:59curious about her like she is about him
11:01like how was your day and what was
11:02things going how did your meeting go she
11:04said I'm very involved in him
11:05but there was no cheat he never really
11:08kind of
11:08turn to her and with any kind of
11:10curiosity yeah it was a real painful
11:14thing for her you know
11:15yeah I see this come up a lot like
11:17clients again who you know they they
11:20describe themselves very simple and
11:22their needs and their emotions and they
11:24come home from a long day at the office
11:26and they just want to turn on the
11:27football game and on why they don't want
11:29to talk to anybody you know want to talk
11:32to their wives or their kids they just
11:34you know if I leave me alone yeah yeah I
11:38mean and some of that I think there's
11:40some culture to you know that supports
11:43that you know in a big way and I grew up
11:47in very you know in rural Texas and grew
11:50up around agriculture or that was a real
11:55interest of mine anyway from very early
11:57on and I mean you know it's a hard life
11:59people who work out have to work off you
12:03know
12:03depend on the land to make their living
12:05where they wherever that is in the world
12:07it's a hard life there's a lot of
12:10barrels involved and there's a lot on
12:13the line I spent six and a half years in
12:17West Africa they didn't get rain didn't
12:19make a crop you know I mean there are
12:21lives in the life you know the lives of
12:23their children depended on man so
12:25there's a lot of stress around that so
12:28there was a real I mean you had to be on
12:32your game and yet had the intentional
12:35and it's hot and it's painful but you
12:39have to be able to cut that off and do
12:41what you have to do you know work long
12:43days or whatever because your life
12:46depends on it then I know that's changed
12:49some in our cultures this mechanization
12:51but I think think that this the culture
12:54there's still culture that's still there
12:56much so and I love how you talk about
12:59that survival living off the land it's
13:01like they're working so hard they don't
13:03have a lot of bandwidth to think about
13:07anything else not a lot of interaction
13:11other than you know just what they have
13:13at home and there are a lot of times and
13:15my world was that we're out doing
13:17independently doing chores and
13:19accomplishing things and
13:22was really you know that was really
13:24looked up to so yeah that's a part of it
13:29and then we you know you can move into
13:31like I would did a lot of work with the
13:33military George and not work a lot with
13:35those guys and I mean they're they're
13:40not only avoidant but they're trained to
13:43be avoided Wow it's not a natural thing
13:46to run into gunfire that's right so you
13:50know that's you touches so I guess
13:53you're asking your question how do you
13:55work with those those kind of people I'd
13:58say the first thing is even with the the
14:01military guys is allow the wife of their
14:05spouse partner whatever to be the the
14:07evocative stimuli so that they will
14:12really be moved at these at these
14:15foundational levels and these core
14:17attachment longings and needs right come
14:21online because they're the one they love
14:25can move them in ways that we could
14:27never move them so I think that's the
14:30first thing I try to do is to try to
14:33really sometimes we want to sort of you
14:37know like whoa I don't want to do that
14:39and you know turn this loose and she may
14:44get you know she or he or whatever the
14:46more the pursuer the one who's really
14:48more of the blaming criticizing one
14:51don't want to really open that up but
14:53it's in those key movements that they're
14:55they cannot not feel yeah will not be
14:58able to be access it for any length of
15:01time they may not be able to name it
15:03because no one helped them find language
15:05for it when they were little yeah and
15:08smile but that's the that's what that's
15:11the advantage of working in a couple
15:14relationship
15:18yes so I love how you said basically you
15:23use the partner as the stimuli which is
15:27so helpful it's like you work with them
15:30by working with their partner and I love
15:33how you said there's no way that they
15:35can't not feel in that I mean they're
15:38they're gonna probably try they're gonna
15:40work really hard but the more that you
15:41can access them through their spouse and
15:44help them find language because again
15:47perhaps nobody ever taught them the
15:49words or how to put words to it you know
15:53that's gonna be a process that you know
15:56you go through and what about when you
15:59talk about getting into stage 2 and
16:03you're trying to help them bond and and
16:06you run up against those you know maybe
16:08they are they're able to tolerate their
16:11partner's emotions a little bit more and
16:14have a little bit more understanding and
16:16maybe they're willing to show up for
16:18their partner's needs but again in terms
16:19of their own they're not really termed
16:22tuned into their appetite or craving for
16:26attachment right yeah that's the ring
16:29gauging which our engagement is reengage
16:32in with self sometimes we get that
16:35confused I mean it translates into re
16:37engaging with other but that's yet to me
16:41to me that's the important part that's I
16:44mean we're already it's almost like a
16:46like we we're very for me with physical
16:48muscle groups that we go and exercise
16:50and work there's emotional muscle groups
16:53and stage one is surreal you know it's
16:57it's an opportunity for us to really
16:59help them begin to exercise those
17:01emotions we I don't you know I don't
17:04think it we we have to help them find
17:06language for it words for it too a lot
17:09of people have problems with that but if
17:10we don't they won't have it and we do it
17:12in a in a tentative way and we you know
17:16we offer it up and I did that to you
17:20this last week again with one of my
17:22clients and they were real quick too and
17:24I really appreciate that to the best end
17:27they would really really really quick to
17:29correct me no it's not that
17:31it's this right and so within 10 minutes
17:34later you know I think I think I
17:37suggested it was sad you know and anyway
17:42about they said note wasn't that and
17:45then about five minutes later then they
17:47said it's sad and I'm thinking well
17:50imagine we just talked about this five
17:52minutes ago
17:54what's with the lag time here but they
17:57weren't there yet so that's a really
18:00good thing right that they say no it's
18:02not that it's this and then they work
18:04through it and then they find it their
18:05self they find that that word I think
18:09that's an important part of the
18:10evocative stimuli and giving ourselves
18:13permission to be sit with them walk
18:15around their experience and help them
18:17find that language and I think the big
18:21thing with my military guys I focus on
18:24is that emotion is a process that takes
18:29the heat off a little bit if we're if
18:32it's we're just sitting there trying to
18:33find a were a feeling word I personally
18:38don't think there's a lot about you and
18:39just finding that word it's the process
18:41of emotion
18:42it's the cue it's the first appraisal
18:46physical arousal the second a price on
18:48action tendency we help them connect all
18:51that and they can find that I my
18:54experience has been that there will be
18:56an emotion that will unfold for them
18:58that will come up to describe that
19:01emotional state and if it doesn't it
19:03will permeate the room and I can use
19:05myself to suggest maybe or offer that
19:10emotion up and it's typically they can
19:14find it that way yeah you'll you'll be
19:17working with the emotion that comes
19:18alive in the room and just sort of
19:20conjecture around what yeah yeah and I
19:23think you said something really
19:24important about which re-engagement how
19:27it can really be three engagement with
19:30the self which results in re engagement
19:33with their partner as well and can you
19:36maybe give some strategies or ideas of
19:40language that you might use when you are
19:44leading off the process of which
19:47re-engagement here with drivers again
19:49the ones that say like I'm good on my
19:51needs as long as my wife is fine and
19:54buddy's happy again I'm fine there you
19:57know and you ask them to go inside
19:59they're like there's just not much
20:00happening like I'm seriously just fine
20:04yeah well by the time they get to stage
20:072 they've had some extras they've had
20:09some practice there but again well
20:14another big piece I get is I don't know
20:17I train horses I mean for a fun I'm not
20:21a professional trainer but we have a
20:23saying you know you set the horse up for
20:25success and you reward the slightest
20:28trial and I think that's so true working
20:32with what roars we set them up for
20:33success we don't ask them to go to the
20:36deepest darkest place waterway we just
20:38meet them where they're at and we
20:40reflect and help them to expand that and
20:42then that then and then typically
20:45something else perhaps will will kind of
20:47come out of that but we validate
20:51validate validate any any attempt they
20:54make anything that they offer us and it
20:57needs to be authentic I mean we needs to
21:00be real but the more I work with the
21:01drawers and by the way I'm I'm gonna
21:03throw her in recovery so I can I can
21:08like that all this this conversation
21:10pretty well yeah I mean it's just the
21:14more I work with with drawers and more I
21:17see that they really mean it's it's
21:19there we have to believe it's there and
21:22we have to also believe and be convinced
21:26and really buy into the idea that they
21:29had no other options that this is about
21:33that by default we all do something and
21:36this is what they do and I think when
21:39we're working with them the challenges
21:41here is just that we can get frustrated
21:45right and think they're being difficult
21:48or you know not compliant and then also
21:51if you have a the more pursuing partner
21:54who's using all the language in the
21:57emotional words it
21:58we want to grab onto because after all
22:01that's what we're looking for
22:02I'm it's easier to you know I think made
22:05me lose our alliance and with that with
22:08which are or lose our ability to I find
22:10empathy and connect with them but I
22:15think I think validation is really
22:18really huge the biggest thing and in
22:23working course you don't know of course
22:25that would be harder for you no one
22:27really helped you find words for that
22:30you know in the past or and I what kind
22:34of comes to mind is in this places we're
22:36asking them to make a shift from
22:37individual coping to relational coping
22:42even though they may be fine doing it on
22:44their own the ideas to build more
22:46connection with their partner and if
22:49they can involve partner and their
22:51soothing and get it together and that's
22:54going to help strengthen the
22:55relationship so you know in some ways
22:58we're going to talk to them about how
23:00this will you know on behalf of their
23:02marriage will they allow themselves to
23:06to it bring this part of themselves in
23:09contact with their partner yeah right I
23:12mean there's a fear of accessing right
23:16for some of us and particularly with
23:18what roars of fear by accessing emotion
23:20that's a difficult process no one kind
23:23of take the elevator down though and
23:25connecting the dots what do I tell
23:27myself what am I feeling how do I find a
23:29word that describes that or given image
23:31or whatever that looks like then it's a
23:33whole nother thing to then I ask you to
23:37share that right express it so accessing
23:40it and in expressing it and sometimes
23:43that when you want one thing if you if
23:47you can't access it very easy it's
23:49probably because you no one's really
23:50been accessible to you right and so then
23:53we're asking them to express it to other
23:56and so what is the expectation well
23:59history think no one's gonna be there
24:02for me when that happens so in at
24:05various levels but I always kind of
24:07think about that when I'm working with
24:08my client like okay with the real of
24:10withdrawal or someone is really really
24:12drone and it has an avoidant strategy
24:15like you know what I mean what what do
24:17they is it more difficult and
24:20challenging for them to access and find
24:22a language for what they're doing or is
24:24it it sits around the Bunner ability of
24:29expressing it in this setting or is it
24:32expressing to other might be kind of
24:35slicing that a little thinner and my
24:38little light goes on when you're saying
24:39that and can you tell me what you would
24:41say to this when a client says I just
24:43there's just not anything going on there
24:46I'm seriously just fine and happy and
24:48it's like you're wanting me to access
24:50something that's not there
24:52mm-hmm and I would say I hear you I hear
24:57you but you fell in love with her right
24:59you fell in love with her you felt that
25:02and you're here because you wanted to
25:05feel that again and yes it's hard to
25:09find language for it but you know it's
25:12very important for you to find language
25:14for what what's going on with you sort
25:16of operating with half half the
25:18information you need to get around in
25:20life you know and this is really what
25:22she's longing for here by the way as
25:24well right so that's what we're gonna
25:25work on okay so what's it like right now
25:28it's I talked to you about this so what
25:31happens sometimes if we get if we ask
25:34the same question too many times or come
25:36at it from we just assume the role of
25:39the pursuer
25:40now we're nagging we're poking we're
25:43prying and I've been caught caught it
25:46this before after I had a clamp one time
25:48say Kenny I think you're fishing for
25:52something and I'm not sure I know what
25:54it is
25:54right so I was only in his mind I was on
25:57the fishing fishing expedition I was
26:00trying to find and what is he as I put
26:02draw or what is he telling me
26:04I'll placate tell me give me multiple
26:08choice I'll pick something okay anything
26:11but get get away from under this
26:15uncomfortable place of not knowing the
26:18way huh where did you go from there with
26:22him I
26:23said I said I hear you I said you know
26:26what I said I I am I said I have a few
26:30exactly what I said but probably
26:32something to effect yeah I'm moving way
26:35too fast I'm moving way too fast and you
26:40know this isn't about me trying to poke
26:42and cry by the way and that's not what
26:44that isn't going to help you that's not
26:45why we're here
26:46my goal is just to kind of walk around
26:49with you in this and help help you find
26:51language for it and that's what I'm
26:54trying to do but if I ever and thanks
26:56for telling me that because I never want
26:58you to feel like I'm trying to fish for
27:00something or Trond up you know coach you
27:03into coming up with some word to
27:05describe what you're going what you're
27:07going with
27:07and then I turned them probably if I
27:09don't know what I did exactly don't
27:11remember but I probably would turn the
27:12conversation back to her and then ask
27:15her what was it's like for her right now
27:17in this right now and what's happening
27:19for her it's kind of sit with that and
27:21maybe give him a rest or maybe she would
27:23have a some comment on what just
27:25happened and maybe that would have well
27:27taken something in him but you know I
27:30mean he's just saying on the I'm
27:33drowning here you're holding my head
27:35underwater I don't know when I'm coming
27:36up for breath I only get when I'll catch
27:38my next breath so we just let him up you
27:41know and in that I did move too fast
27:43obviously I was lost my team met with
27:46him I was I had crossed over into
27:48pushing and so I again I think creating
27:53safety is huge we have to feel safe
27:56enough to feel I think that happens
27:59validation normalizing not pathologizing
28:03they already feel like most wood drawers
28:05feel like you know there's something
28:08wrong with them anyway that's so well
28:10and we want to reinforce yeah right yeah
28:17so what you're saying
28:18Kenny is that you know when they start
28:22to give that I love how you said you
28:24know the withdraw position might be if
28:26we start to poke or join the side of the
28:28pursuer and we're after something we're
28:31trying to get more and you know the
28:35client is saying you know feel like
28:37you're trying to
28:37get something for me to stop there which
28:39I have heard yeah you know just to be
28:43able to back up and and maybe you know
28:47validate what what's happening and maybe
28:51be a little more clear about what our
28:53focus is I love how you says my goal is
28:55not to you know try to poke you and
28:58thank you for telling me you know I'm
29:01really just trying to walk around with
29:02you and this you know just making that
29:04process really explicit and then you
29:06said you might you know again go back to
29:09their partner and kind of use them as
29:12the stimulus again
29:13I'm guessing ya might do that mmm yeah
29:18you know so I mean oh yeah hardly yeah
29:21that made that might naturally evolve if
29:24it doesn't then you know just sort of
29:27give a personal break get some breathing
29:29room but I think the hard thing about
29:32with jars and avoiders is that we see
29:36them as maybe being avoidant of
29:38attachment and I know that's not true I
29:41mean obviously they got married for a
29:43reason you know a better angle own when
29:46they could have if that was obviously
29:47such a better more ideal choice so
29:50helping them tap into the reasons why
29:53they got married why they got together
29:56why they wanted connection that
29:58avoidance isn't an avoidance of
30:00attachment it's avoidance of pain it's
30:04avoidance of emotion it's a coping
30:05strategy am I getting that yeah
30:08absolutely and in their world when they
30:12feel stress they again they come from
30:15that individual coping model where
30:18they've never learned so to self-soothe
30:21with other people maybe not necessarily
30:23they weren't all of them weren't
30:25necessarily given negative signs around
30:27it it's just they grew up like you said
30:29in a culture and I find this a lot in
30:32the in the world farm communities is
30:34that you know everybody's just busy on
30:37the farm you know nobody's got time for
30:41extra social connection during today
30:43it's just get the business done you know
30:46they go out to play and you know with
30:49the neighbor kids no one's really
30:50getting around
30:51being about emotion so it's not that
30:52they haven't gotten bad messages it just
30:55maybe I know messages about let's get
30:58together and talk about it it's more we
31:00got to keep going we got to keep
31:02surviving so just find a way to reel out
31:06boo and deal with it so they were just
31:08kind of taught a self-regulating
31:12strategy and even the science is clear
31:15if we can co regulate it's gonna lighten
31:17the load and I think a lot of people
31:20have this belief that that Co
31:23regulations somehow means like
31:25codependency which is not a form secure
31:28attachment by the way and you know
31:33they're thinking oh somehow this means I
31:35like it's a threat to my independence
31:37and LC connection should not be a threat
31:41to your independence they know they
31:43could theoretically go hand-in-hand the
31:45two sides of the same attachment coin
31:47right yes yeah yeah that's where it
31:50throws our culture on it's here in
31:54America North America right in is that
31:57you know we're all about autonomy and
31:58independence and I think the message out
32:01there is very strong that you know but
32:04that's something we we have to do by
32:06ourselves but and then you try to tell
32:09somebody that you know it's actually on
32:11the backside of psychic connection and
32:13that that can that trips a lot of a lot
32:16of folks up cuz but it is I mean I got
32:20and I've got you know we've all been
32:24around children had children grandkids
32:26or whatever and you know they'll hang on
32:29your pants like and they'll run off you
32:31know and it'll maybe in the store or
32:34something and they don't get very far
32:35and they realize how far they've got
32:36away and they'll turn around and run
32:38back right so there's that safe base but
32:40we don't ever outgrow that we need to
32:43know we have a safe base now they need
32:45to physically come back but we can do
32:47that in our heads and our hearts and
32:49being all the way across the world from
32:51someone but we know we have that safe
32:53base and we know we can reach them and
32:56and so you know that's a that's a that's
32:59a hard sell
33:02I think more in America now than ever
33:10that we actually were on you know to be
33:14in connection so yeah I think you're
33:18right the North American culture is very
33:20much do it on your own you know meeting
33:22is bad being dependent on others is bad
33:25but really our species would not survive
33:29if we couldn't depend on each other you
33:31know we need that cooperation among each
33:35other to be able to survive yeah I can I
33:39can give you an example in my own life
33:40and I'd love very loving parents but it
33:43was it was very much the culture of the
33:45time and I think some of the community I
33:47grew up in like when I was old enough to
33:49like walk to the front door of the
33:52doctor's office with my my sister who's
33:54two years younger me I mean we go in and
33:57we get our shots we come out sit on the
34:01car wipe someone pick us up you know and
34:03we got to get our shots go for school
34:04that feels like that sounds like hard
34:07but the most horrible things you care
34:09because while I messed up but it sounds
34:12like the most horrible thing you could
34:14do to a child but but back then in that
34:18in that culture war I grew up it was
34:20like you've got to you got to be tough
34:22you've got to be independent and you
34:25know no no time for tears and you know
34:29and things have shifted and change
34:31culture is always changing
34:32there wasn't anything deviant behind you
34:35that was just that was just the thought
34:37of the time I mean the same thing with
34:40you know if the baby cries that I'm
34:42crying you know they you know it's all
34:44about independence and so I think a lot
34:48of it is you know steeped in culture and
34:51what's valued and but I think there's
34:54some lot of positive things there's a
34:56really good example of that in in a
34:59movie I don't know if you guys have seen
35:01Meet the Parents but they did a sequel
35:05to that Meet the Fockers and I'm gonna
35:08flash over parenting over the grandbaby
35:10and you know it was a Robert De Niro you
35:14know is that like ex-cia very like we
35:17use the Ferber method we let him cry it
35:19out and then
35:22you know you have what's the actor's
35:24name Dustin Hoffman and he's like we use
35:27the method that's the last name
35:29I'm not sure the method we hug
35:32and kiss that little prince you know so
35:35this is two very different parenting
35:37stress yeah yeah and with so what mean
35:42we can see were avoided this attachment
35:45and by the way there's some you know
35:47George talks about this a lot tunes such
35:51trains shared trainings with him but he
35:54talks about it a lot to about you know
35:56have an appreciation for what they bring
35:58into the world as well
36:00avoidance um if I'm flying I hope I
36:04would prefer my pilot be on the boy
36:07didn't sign of things and can compare at
36:08least get good at compartmentalizing is
36:11that I wouldn't feel very much comfort
36:13if he said you know I've had a real
36:14rough night last night I didn't sleep me
36:17and the wife got you know got in a fight
36:19and and the baby's got colic but you
36:23know hey I'm doing the best I can to
36:24stay awake here and I hope to get y'all
36:26to the other side I don't want to know
36:28that and that's Eddie I just want to
36:32know your dick and do your job you know
36:34having just said tell me what you know
36:36buddy
36:36so I mean compartmentalization it serves
36:39a big purpose that it's problematic when
36:43we cannot cut it you know we we sort of
36:46cut our emotions up but when we can't
36:48cut them back down that's that's little
36:50problem flexibility and and I know you
36:54know with the military population too
36:56they also talk about I know the joke was
36:58the military doesn't issue emotions and
37:02I know if you had to have an emotion
37:05pick anger and particularly in war or
37:09battle situations you know always pick
37:11anger over fear because fear will shut
37:14you down and can paralyze you and that's
37:18not safe for war situations but you know
37:22flood your body with certain chemicals
37:24adrenaline to help mobilize you to fight
37:27so it keeps you safe and then you know
37:29with a lot of soldiers a lot of one of
37:32the only emotions they can't identify
37:33what there's a lot
37:34anger sure yeah hoping that flexibility
37:39so so is there any Germany suggestions
37:42of language or maybe metaphors words
37:46that we can use that can help because
37:48obviously you know with the rural
37:50community and I think a lot of us have
37:52these guys I mean though I have clients
37:55that moved to Las Vegas a lot of them
37:56grew up on farms in Indiana or you know
38:00just various parts of the US I know we
38:02have a lot of Tears in Canada and
38:05there's still a lot of rural farming
38:06communities up there and they don't
38:08really identify it with the warm fuzzy
38:10language you know which some EMT
38:13trainers are beautiful at but what kind
38:15of language could we use that might more
38:18appropriately or better relate to
38:20clients in this well I tell you when I
38:23give and I know you can give this in my
38:25trainings a man I have an old I had a no
38:27farm truck I just I sold it years ago
38:30but I'd had it for oh my gosh one yeah
38:34hey you here's a thing here's old and
38:38it's who I could go at night and turn
38:41the key on
38:42in every check engine light was on you
38:44could like read a book it was such a
38:46mess but that check engine light what
38:49does it tell us it tells us -
38:51something's right not right under the
38:52hood so we can drive keep driving it and
38:56if it starts making noise we turn the
38:58radio up louder if it starts you know if
39:03the lights check engine light to bother
39:05us we could put a piece of tape over and
39:07then I mean if we starts all starts
39:10burning or whatever we can roll the
39:11window down
39:12but eventually I mean it's telling us
39:14something it's important information
39:16look under the hood and and so subsets
39:19gonna go bad if we don't do so that's
39:22that's the kind of maybe the kind of
39:26image I would give maybe that would be
39:30helpful or I've found that helpful I
39:32think with using it back engine why and
39:38how and yeah then the other pieces you
39:41know no one ever held the hood up for
39:45you yeah we look inside to see
39:48what's going on that's why we're here
39:51you know that's what's done well you
39:55check that you thought oh yeah yeah what
39:59a job we can do buy or sell and that's
40:02why we're here and that's why you guys
40:04are working on this okay and then we
40:05just kind of roll back inside yeah it's
40:08not that you can't do it alone but it's
40:10a lot easier you know when you have an
40:13extra set of hands right right and we
40:16know it's so much less stressful and and
40:18takes eighty percent less energy or
40:21something to have someone Co regulate
40:23you then just try to solve it on your
40:25own yeah I often use that you know
40:28because you know when your body douses
40:31you with all those stress hormones it's
40:33hard on your heart it's hard on you know
40:36different organs within your body and so
40:38when you can Co regulate it lightens
40:40that load and it just it's good for your
40:43body you know it's good for your heart
40:46yeah absolutely that's wonderful
40:50oh that's a great idea of language thank
40:53you so much you know I think it's good
40:55to have different metaphors that we can
40:57adapt for different clients and I
40:59definitely think that's a really good
41:01metaphor that's useful so thank you so
41:03much for sharing that with us so just to
41:06kind of summarize you know we talked
41:09about how you know there are with jars
41:12or avoidance that get these you know
41:15patterns from childhood where they're
41:18taught self-regulation tough it out you
41:21know just get through maybe they've had
41:25some trauma that's been negative
41:27experiences or they've just had no
41:29experiences that have said you know work
41:31it out with someone else but their
41:34avoidance isn't of is enough attachment
41:37it's of paints of emotions and you know
41:41a lot of folks have grown up at cultures
41:43or environments that have nurtured that
41:46reinforced state like military or again
41:49you know certain types of American
41:52living or world living on rural
41:54agricultural places but I love how you
41:58said you know work with the partner
42:01an emotional stimuli always in the ante
42:05model work with what comes alive in the
42:07room help them if they struggle with the
42:10language don't pathologize you know just
42:13be with them make the process really
42:15clear and validate you said really heavy
42:19on validation for ya nobody's ever
42:22helped you with this nobody has ever
42:23given you a language and that makes
42:26sense right
42:27and when we get to bonding in stage two
42:31sort of the same thing as you know using
42:34their partner as a stimuli but also
42:37helping them to re-engage with
42:38themselves which helps them re-engage
42:41with their partner want helping them
42:44tune into their appetite for connection
42:47which has probably never really been on
42:49the menu before you know they're letting
42:53them know hey this is a new item and in
42:55fact your marriage can benefit greatly
42:57by doing this and we're helping them
43:00shift from self-regulation to two
43:03co-regulation or relational soothing and
43:07you had a lovely metaphor about the
43:10check engine light you know using you
43:12know if you've got car mechanic she's
43:14cut you know your your farm guys you
43:18know using that you got a tractor you've
43:20got a truck or whatever got that check
43:22engine light that comes on you know if
43:24you keep writing and I know my dad was a
43:26mechanic and he actually taught me that
43:28do not ride in your car with that check
43:31engine light something that cause way
43:33more damage so you need to get that
43:35checked out so yeah tune into that and
43:39be aware of that yeah modern music thank
43:44you so much Kenny for being with us now
43:45you're in Tennessee do you have a
43:47website
43:48do you have trainings you published
43:50anything yes we have a EFT Tennessee you
43:56can go to EFT Tennessee dot-com dot or
44:00whatever get us that way MFI marriage
44:04Family Institute you can get it the same
44:07way and I yeah of course tonight I
44:12co-authored a book Craig for connection
44:14was sued
44:15so we have that and that again is really
44:19linked us in with the military they've
44:20kind of made that their book at least on
44:23the chaplain side so we've been doing a
44:26lot of work around it and we have video
44:28tapes and training manuals and
44:31everything else that goes goes with that
44:33I am in the middle of writing a book
44:35finishing a book and I've been trying to
44:38finish it for over a year
44:44it's it is going to be like a 40 day
44:47follow-up from a homie tighter a crepe
44:50four connections so that when a couple
44:52leaves that experience they'll have
44:54something to sort of attachment Rick
44:57Julis it and with and carry on you know
45:03be able to maintain some momentum there
45:05so so that's that's coming on and I mean
45:08we have all my trainings are on my
45:10website and and I'll fill nice if
45:14website so perfect and I will put a link
45:18to your guys's websites both the MFI and
45:23the Tennessee EFT on the description for
45:26this video in on youtube and also a link
45:31to creative for connections that
45:34available for purchase on Amazon it is
45:37but I also sell them I sell out that I
45:40sell the homie tight trainers manuals
45:43I mean facilitator guide in the videos
45:45that Sims for the North American
45:49distributor of those products the book
45:52itself is on Amazon and it's my probably
45:55might be even easier to get that but if
45:58this the facilitator guides for the
46:01others and the videotapes that go with
46:03it it's it's all on my website as well
46:05so perfect perfect we'll make sure that
46:08we put that up that you guys can find it
46:10and can people email you through your
46:13website yes you're fit if you guys are
46:19curious and you want to attend a
46:20training that Kenny offers here he's on
46:23the East Coast and if you like to invite
46:25him to do a training in your area
46:28just go ahead and send him an email I'm
46:30sure he'd be more than willing to work
46:32out a schedule and a plan and you know
46:36sleep especially if it's a good fishing
46:39where there's good all right my
46:44priorities in this season in my life
46:46good maybe we should get an e of t train
46:50you're going in Alaska then yeah I'd go
46:52there yeah well thank you again so much
46:57Kenny for being on our episode today we
46:59really appreciate you taking the time to
47:02be with us well thank you smile honor
47:04thank you and thank you so much to our
47:07visitors make sure that you hit
47:10subscribe because more episodes are on
47:13the way
47:15[Music]