How to Get Good at Small Talk, and Even Enjoy It

0:00MATT ABRAHAMS: Small talk, I think, is actually a misnomer.

0:02We refer to small talk as any chit-chat or just conversation

0:06that we don't put a lot of import on.

0:08When, in fact, small talk is a wonderful way of connecting,

0:12bonding, learning, growing.

0:15And what makes it so challenging is the fact

0:18that we can't have a script.

0:20We have to just go with what's happening in the moment.

0:23We often think that it is a test for us.

0:27It's like a tennis match, where I've got to lob something over

0:29to the person or people I'm talking to,

0:32and I hope it lands and goes well.

0:34I think a better way to look at small talk

0:36is like that game of hacky sack--

0:38that little beanbag where everybody is trying

0:40to keep it up all at the same time

0:42and never have it hit the ground.

0:44If you envision your job as collaborating with others

0:47to keep the conversation moving rather than a hot potato tennis

0:50match, where I just need to get it back to the other person,

0:53it can really change, one, how it flows,

0:57and two, the experience from your perspective.

1:00All of a sudden, it's something that's enjoyable

1:02rather than something that's scary.

1:04[MUSIC PLAYING]

1:06When you first get into a small talk situation,

1:08I think we need to establish appropriate goals.

1:11Rachel Greenwald, a matchmaker and an academic,

1:15has this wonderful saying.

1:16Your goal is to be interested, not interesting.

1:20A lot of us go into these situations

1:23thinking that we need to be really fascinating,

1:26engaging, and interesting, when, in fact, we just

1:29need to be present and be interested in the conversation

1:33that's happening.

1:33It also helps reduce the anxiety many of us feel.

1:37We feel like we are being judged.

1:40And the reality is you are being judged.

1:42You can reduce the intensity of that spotlight

1:46we feel by putting your attention on the other.

1:49[MUSIC PLAYING]

1:53Many of us have this desire as soon

1:56as something spontaneous happens and we

1:58have to respond to do it as quickly as possible.

2:01We have this sense that speed to respond in somehow

2:05is associated with competence.

2:07But really, what reflects best on your competence

2:10is an appropriate response.

2:12And appropriateness can take a little bit of time.

2:15We have all said something we didn't

2:17mean to say because it wasn't clear,

2:19or it wasn't appropriate.

2:20Pausing helps reduce that likelihood.

2:23So here are some things you can do to help slow yourself down.

2:26Paraphrasing is wonderful.

2:27Why?

2:28Not just because you are repeating

2:31the gist of what somebody said to make sure

2:33you're clearly going to respond to what's asked

2:35or what's needed, but paraphrasing

2:38forces you to slow down and listen more carefully.

2:42Paraphrase isn't what a five-year-old does who

2:44parrots back what you've said.

2:46It's a distillation of what the other person said.

2:49And when you paraphrase it, you do several things.

2:52One, you validate the other person because you're saying I

2:55heard you.

2:56You're not necessarily agreeing.

2:57Paraphrasing doesn't mean agreement.

2:58It just means this is what I heard.

3:00And it validates the content.

3:02So you validate the person, but the content-- the person

3:04can say, no, no, no, no.

3:05What I really meant was this.

3:06So it helps with fidelity.

3:09Most of us listen just enough to get the gist of what somebody's

3:14saying, and then we immediately start judging, rehearsing,

3:17and responding.

3:18When I paraphrase, I have to listen super intently.

3:21I have to listen to understand what's the bottom line of what

3:24you're saying?

3:25That slows me down.

3:27And by slowing my own thoughts down and then paraphrasing

3:31them, I buy myself some time to really think.

3:34[MUSIC PLAYING]

3:36There's always something to say.

3:38You can always ask a question.

3:39My mother-in-law was amazing at small talk.

3:43She had a black belt in small talk.

3:45And her superpower was a simple phrase.

3:48She would pause for a moment, and she would say,

3:50tell me more.

3:51If you are ever in a situation, a communication,

3:54conversation where you don't know what to say,

3:57most of the time you could simply say, tell me more,

4:00or give me some more detail, or what did you

4:02mean about that point?

4:04And just by giving the person an opportunity to speak again,

4:07that gives you time to find what you might want

4:10to say and to connect to it.

4:11CREW: Tell me more.

4:13When you say, tell me more have to act inquisitively.

4:16If you just say, tell me more, it's not--

4:18but if you say tell me-- yeah.

4:20Tell me more.

4:21Tell me more about that.

4:22Yeah.

4:22[MUSIC PLAYING]

4:26Mistakes are normal and natural in communication.

4:29We make them all the time.

4:31Spontaneous communication is about

4:33connection, not perfection.

4:35You know, in film and TV, directors will ask their actors

4:42to have multiple takes.

4:44A take is just another shot at doing the same thing.

4:47So an actor might say something in one way very passionately,

4:51or they might say it in another way more--

4:53being more curious.

4:55Those are all different takes.

4:57So I'd like people to reframe a mistake as a missed take.

5:02What you did wasn't wrong.

5:04There might be another way to do it, and we can try it again.

5:07[MUSIC PLAYING]

5:11Many of us, when we feel very uncomfortable

5:13in spontaneous speaking situations, we go on too long.

5:17We're discovering what we're thinking as we're thinking it.

5:19So we just take people on the journey of our thought process

5:22as we're speaking, and we keep going on and on and on.

5:25It's almost a defensive technique,

5:27where if I just throw out a lot of stuff,

5:29that maybe something will stick and people will think,

5:33oh, that person's smart or they know

5:35what they're talking about.

5:36Concision is almost always better in communication.

5:41My mother has this wonderful saying.

5:43I know she didn't create it, but it's tell me the time,

5:47don't build me the clock.

5:49Many of us are clock-builders in these spontaneous speaking

5:52situations.

5:53And we have to remind ourselves when we start speaking just

5:57tell the time.

5:58I know the irony that I'm talking about concision,

6:01and I was not concise in that answer.

6:06One of the best ways to be concise and clear

6:09is to leverage structure.

6:11Structure is not a listing of ideas.

6:13It's not bullet points.

6:14Structure is a logical connection of your points.

6:18It's like a recipe or a map.

6:20Now, this sounds ironic, right?

6:22We're talking about being spontaneous,

6:23and here I am saying structure is the key to spontaneity.

6:26But we see this in our life in many other facets.

6:30If you enjoy jazz music, jazz music

6:32isn't just random playing.

6:35Jazz music follows particular structures, chord progressions,

6:39connections of notes.

6:40So we can leverage structure to help our communication be

6:44tighter and clearer.

6:46One of my favorite structures of all time,

6:49because it's so useful in so many different situations,

6:51is three simple questions.

6:53What?

6:54So what?

6:55Now what?

6:56The what is your idea, your product, your service,

6:58your belief.

6:59The so what is why is it important to the person

7:02or people you're talking to?

7:03And then now what is what comes next.

7:05Maybe I'm going to show you something, take your questions,

7:08set up another appointment.

7:10When it comes to small talk, this is a magical tool.

7:14Imagine you're at a corporate mixer, and you're going in,

7:16and there are people in the company that you have not yet

7:19met.

7:19So if I'm engaging you in conversation I can say, hey,

7:22what brings you here?

7:23That's the what.

7:24When you answer, I can say, oh, why is that important,

7:26or why do you find that interesting?

7:27That's the so what.

7:28And then after that, I can ask a question like, oh, so what

7:31more are you going to do, or what are you going to do next,

7:33or do you want to join me and go over here?

7:35So I've got the now what is a question.

7:37As with anything that you're trying to learn,

7:39you have to practice it.

7:41When you read something or listen to a podcast,

7:44pause it, stop your reading, think what was it about,

7:48why is it important to me, and how can I use it?

7:50By drilling it, it becomes more natural.

7:54When we're in small talk situations,

7:56we often initiate with trite, very common phrases.

8:02How are you?

8:03What brings you here?

8:04What do you do?

8:05These are simple, reflexive ways to get

8:08started, but they actually don't take you very far.

8:11I am a big fan of initiating through questions,

8:16but through questions that connect

8:18to the particular context and environment that I'm in.

8:21Just the other day, I was in a situation for small talk.

8:24And the very first thing I did, I came up

8:25to somebody I didn't know and I said, this is amazing to me.

8:28There are more people in this room wearing blue shirts than I

8:31think I've seen in a long time.

8:33And the person said, you know what?

8:34You're right.

8:35That's really interesting.

8:36And all of a sudden the conversation

8:37was off and running.

8:38All I did was notice something in the environment.

8:41Initiating with something that piques somebody's curiosity,

8:45something that might be highlighting something that's

8:47not known or commonly discussed in the moment,

8:50can really invite people in versus hi, how are you?

8:54And they say, fine.

8:55Well, now I'm back to where I started,

8:57and it's even more awkward, right?

8:58[MUSIC PLAYING]

9:01Perhaps more challenging than initiating

9:04small talk is getting out of small talk.

9:06Many of us rely on biology.

9:09Oh, I'm thirsty.

9:09I'm going to go get a drink.

9:10I'm hungry, or I need to go to the bathroom.

9:12Biology is not necessarily the best exit

9:15for these circumstances.

9:16I love an approach I learned from Rachel Greenwald.

9:19It's called the white flag approach.

9:21If you know anything about auto racing,

9:24prior to the last lap, the final lap,

9:26they wave a white flag to signal to all the drivers

9:29that the race is ending.

9:30As you're drawing near to the end of the conversation

9:33either because you need to leave, or you want to leave,

9:36or the conversation has sort of run its course,

9:38you signal that.

9:39You say, I need to go in a moment, but--

9:42and this is where you ask one last question,

9:45provide one last bit of feedback.

9:46So you continue the conversation on for a little bit.

9:50So it might sound something like this.

9:51I need to get going because there's some friends over there

9:54I need to meet.

9:54But before I go, I want to just a little bit more

9:57about that trip you were telling me about to Hawaii.

10:00And together, you can draw the conversation to an end

10:03rather than you abruptly saying, oh,

10:05I need to go to the bathroom.

10:06Or, wow, that looks like good food over there.

10:08It's just a much better, cleaner way

10:11to end a small talk conversation.

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