The CRAZIEST Prince Andrew Interview: The Moment The Lies COLLAPSED

0:00just asking the same thing so let me get

0:01this straight he's like cool

0:04unbelievable

0:05listen I think she gets there and she

0:07gets somewhere in the end though I mean

0:09she doesn't necessarily get up yeah

0:11fashion there's so many places in here I

0:13wanted to see the pre confession we'll

0:14talk about it I'm sure but I want to see

0:16the pre confession and that pre

0:17confessions right there in an

0:18interrogation room of course this is a

0:20prince not a perpetrators chase ease

0:25chase I joined I joined you today nice

0:42so I guess we good to go

0:44yeah you could chase oh yeah I'm sky

0:53rasmalai language expert and analysts

0:54that trained law enforcement in the

0:56military and interrogation and body

0:57language

0:57I'm chase Hughes I teach interrogation

1:00body language did 20 years in the US

1:01military and now I'm a trial consultant

1:03and I train government and private

1:05sectors and persuasion influence

1:06I'm Greg Hartley I spent most of my

1:08early life as an army interrogator

1:10interrogation trainer and resistance to

1:12interrogation trainer I've written 10

1:14books on byte language and behavior and

1:15I mostly spend my time in corporate

1:18America and Wall Street I'm ma Bowden

1:21I'm an expert in human behavior and body

1:22language helping people all over the

1:24world stand out win trust gain

1:25credibility including some of members of

1:28the British aristocracy

1:29it's excellent there well today we're

1:32gonna be talking about Prince Andrew and

1:34his body language during his interview

1:35as we go through this remember we call

1:38him like we see him we're not leaning to

1:39one side politically or the other side

1:41if we're from one country or another

1:44country we're not going to lead toward

1:45that toward either side we calm like we

1:47see him so that's what's going on so

1:49let's start off with the first question

1:51see you today as you say all of this

1:55goes back to your friendship with

1:57Jeffrey Epstein how did you first become

2:00friends how did you meet well I met

2:03through his girlfriend back in 1999

2:06who

2:07and I'd known her since she was at

2:10university in the UK and it would be to

2:14some extent to stretch to say that that

2:17as well we were close friends we were

2:20friends because of other people and I

2:23had a lot of opportunity to go to the

2:27United States but I didn't have much

2:30time with him I suppose I saw him once

2:34or twice a year perhaps maybe massive

2:35over three times a year and quite often

2:39if I was in the United States and doing

2:41things and if he wasn't there he would

2:43say well why don't you come and use my

2:45eysies so I said that's very kind thank

2:48you very much indeed

2:50but it would be it would be a

2:53considerable stretch to say that he was

2:55a very very close friend but he had the

2:57most extraordinary ability to bring

3:02extraordinary people together and that's

3:05the bit that I remember is going to the

3:07dinner parties where you would meet

3:09academics politicians people from the

3:12United Nations I mean it was a it was a

3:13a cosmopolitan group of whatever

3:16described as as US eminence all right

3:20who wants to go first

3:21great yes I'll jump on to things and

3:24then we may bleed into three number one

3:26you it would be a stretch to

3:29characterize us as close friends evolves

3:31too it would be a considerable stretch

3:33to characterize us as very very close

3:36friends hmm that's an interesting

3:39distancing from the situation number one

3:41here's one of those and chase will both

3:43be on this one from different angles

3:45this is one of those points where he's

3:47nodding very rapidly yes about being a

3:49friend and then suddenly preparing

3:52because he knows what's coming

3:53pushing his tongue out of his mouth and

3:55this is not a grooming move as much you

3:58know cleaning your mouth has almost

4:00distasteful pushing his tongue out of

4:02course his routine is a little bit of

4:04that but watching from here that first

4:06start and you'll see as he progresses

4:08through this fighter flights going to

4:10start hitting him and you'll get new

4:11coastal fatigue and all that and we'll

4:13talk about it as it shows up but those

4:14two things are my first to chase pretty

4:16good

4:18a lot here so just focus on a couple of

4:21things we have this lip compression the

4:25moment that the person's name is

4:27memorized they're mentioned we see the

4:30lips squeezed together which typically

4:31means withheld opinions or something's

4:33kind of being withheld and we're also

4:36getting a little bit of a baseline here

4:37because we're starting out the video and

4:39you know Greg talks a lot about baseline

4:42so we're looking he's accessing a

4:44genuine memory and he looks over to his

4:46left so we're kind of just starting to

4:49get this little baseline behavior and

4:51when he says United States he's using

4:53this hand he's gesturing that direction

4:55when he's going to America so these are

4:57important little things to pay attention

4:59to for the rest of the interview and one

5:01thing you'll notice when you have an HD

5:04video it's really really cool the artery

5:08underneath the knee causes the foot to

5:11bounce with the heartbeat so what we'll

5:13do I'll throw it in the comments here

5:15I'll throw his heartbeat throughout the

5:17entire interview which I have spent time

5:18calculating in the comments of the video

5:22chase it's a beautiful thing because

5:24I've been watching it the entire video

5:26myself watching his pulse right it's a

5:28beautiful thing that's right that's well

5:30as way today and I was gonna goose it

5:31with that but Chandler let him sit that

5:35way in full camera view like mark your

5:38people are like yeah well let me tell

5:41you let me tell you about this his

5:44handlers have abandoned him at this

5:45point and here's how I think we can tell

5:49that just look at his tie his tie is

5:52askew a handler would have never have

5:55let that go so let's look at the bigger

5:57context that we have here we're in the

6:00Royal Palace

6:01that's not his house that's his mother's

6:03house it's the seat of the crown of

6:04England it's a place of high authority

6:07where he's trying to get extreme

6:10compliance from this interviewer and

6:12he's trying to do it by striking or as

6:16you walk into that room you just need to

6:17look at the China collection at the back

6:19you've got priceless paintings all

6:21around you he's basically saying you

6:23will comply because look at the

6:25authority that rests here Maitlis to

6:30counter this has shown

6:32in a military-style jacket knowing I

6:35think so there are no accidents here

6:37there are conscious and unconscious

6:39choices she's shown up in a military

6:42jacket hoping for some compliance around

6:44that that he'll see the braids you'll

6:47see the military style and although he's

6:49a vice admiral himself

6:50there will be an element of compliance

6:53to the idea of military and rank signals

6:57essentially though of course we don't

6:59expect that he thinks she holds any rank

7:01however in the UK she would be one of

7:04the top interviewers in hard news so

7:08she's a strong contender here so I just

7:10want to lay that out and just you know

7:12let you know I think he's been abandoned

7:15at this point he's on his own

7:18because handlers would have come in and

7:19they'd have adjusted that time I just

7:21want to make two other points about this

7:23Greg the the the stretch we actually see

7:28him do a descriptor of that stretch and

7:32it is he doesn't make it a huge stretch

7:35he makes it a little bit of a stretch

7:37but later on in the interview we're

7:39gonna see him do a stretch again and

7:42we're gonna see his hands clasped

7:44together and he won't describe a stretch

7:47so it's a good a good chance for a

7:49baseline on that and I just want to put

7:52one more thing down he says that's the

7:54bit that I remember and that stresses on

7:57I and I think at this point your pot

7:59point at the start Scott he's just laid

8:01down his complete strategy which is I

8:04remember this and I'm not going to

8:07remember other stuff so he's he's

8:11already gone his here's my strategy I'm

8:14gonna forget stuff yeah yeah and I think

8:17that's the way it's laid out you can

8:19tell he's been hanging with some

8:19high-end lawyers because that's the

8:22perfect setup for that whole thing right

8:24out of the gate he says when she says I

8:27know how to draw me to her he says I met

8:28he doesn't say I met him he doesn't say

8:31say we met he says I met and that

8:34distances him from him from word one

8:37from the right out of the gate

8:38I met at and then you just got how it's

8:41done we're talking about that foot

8:44sticking out as well and it's really

8:45important you

8:45for the heart for the heartbeat but he's

8:48using it as a barrier as well so I'll be

8:50pointing those out as we go through

8:51because as he gets at some points you

8:52see go dank as he tries to

8:55subconsciously block what's coming at

8:58him it's it's this is and these angles

9:01they've done this are perfect and

9:02they're not just honing in on her like

9:04we saw the megyn kelly thing it's not

9:06about megyn kelly and it's not about

9:08this interviewer it's about the

9:09interviewee so this is a this is gonna

9:11be a it's gonna be a great learning

9:13exercise for the person who wants to

9:15learn about body language all of this

9:18goes back to your friendship with

9:20Jeffrey Epstein how did you first become

9:23friends how did you meet well I met

9:26through his girlfriend back in 1999

9:29who and I'd known her since she was at

9:33university in the UK and it would be to

9:37some extent to stretch to say that that

9:39as well we were close friends remember

9:42we were friends because of other people

9:45and I had a lot of opportunity to go to

9:50the United States but I didn't have much

9:53time with him I suppose I saw him once

9:57or twice a year perhaps maybe massive

9:58over three times a year and quite often

10:01if I was in the United States and doing

10:04things and if he wasn't there he would

10:06say well why don't you come and use my

10:08house I said that's very kind thank you

10:11very much indeed but it would be it

10:14would be a considerable stretch to say

10:18that he was a very very close friend but

10:19he had the most extraordinary ability to

10:23bring extra TP to gether and that's the

10:28bit that I remember is going to the

10:30dinner parties where you would meet

10:32academics politicians people from the

10:35United Nations I mean it was a it was a

10:36is what a cosmopolitan group of whatever

10:39describers as US eminence of grace go

10:44the next was a it was a a cosmopolitan

10:47group of whatever describers as US

10:50eminence was that his appeal then was

10:54that what you because you you were

10:56perceived by the public as being the

10:57party Prince

10:59was that something innocence that's also

11:02a bit of a stretch I don't know why I've

11:07collected that title because I don't I I

11:11never have really parted I was single

11:16for quite a long time in the early

11:19eighties but then after I got married I

11:23was very happy and and I've never really

11:28felt the need to go in party and

11:30certainly going to Jefferies was not

11:35about partying absolutely not all right

11:38well here's what I'm seeing right around

11:40the gate on that one when he shakes his

11:43head no like saying yes that's the a

11:45perhaps that right there the first

11:46question and then he says I've never

11:50felt the need to party and you see the

11:52classic half shrug that goes into that

11:55again about his foot

11:59it's not about partying that's when his

12:02foot goes up for the first time we see

12:03that that that blockage go up then you

12:06see we see his limbic system kicking in

12:08because he's starting to dawn on where

12:09he's starting to feel just a little bit

12:10of heat at that point his nostrils flare

12:12a little bit and his eyes closed and his

12:15eyes closed all the way actually and

12:16when he's finished giving this statement

12:18you can as he's doing this he's rubbing

12:20his fingers like in the fashion of okay

12:23there's one down of a cop in accomplish

12:25wet in other words when you get when you

12:26see that so he gives that a sigh of

12:29relief as he's going through ah got

12:31through that one that went well and

12:32chase you're right when he's looking

12:34over to our right that's when he's

12:36recalling what he's heard now you know

12:38my feelings on I accessing you can

12:41correct you but uh you know what are you

12:45gonna do that's where he's going for

12:46remembering things anyway that's where

12:47his eyes that's where his eyes head so

12:49what do you see mark

12:51yeah so so nice baseline there on on

12:56that was his appeal yeah so he does

13:00upward inflection on that I think he's

13:04jumping there on this gift of compliance

13:08yeah and and we're gonna see this later

13:11on and I think what we're gonna see is

13:13the interviewer cleverly use that signal

13:17of I just one to then move in for the

13:21attack because she knows at this point

13:24she's got him optimistic about this so

13:26that was his appeal yeah and up his

13:29voice goes and he jumps on this gift

13:32he's got a compliant at that point now

13:34we see at this point that second that's

13:36a bit of a stretch but instead of doing

13:39the descriptor he's now clasped together

13:42my guess would be is that means that

13:46it's it's a different it's a different

13:49stretch from the first stretch in fact

13:51it's not a stretch else he would have

13:54described it I believe in in some way oh

13:58he sees blink rate go up and I'm sure

14:01chase will we'll talk about that I think

14:06we hear the the name of Jeffrey used in

14:11just-just-just Jeffrey not Epstein

14:13Jeffrey and the tonality of it seems to

14:17feel quite friendly now so let me leave

14:22it let me leave it that okay chase

14:24pretty good we see a lot in this we're

14:27gonna see a lot in all these yeah but we

14:30we got a really good baseline here about

14:32how he has truthful conversations he's

14:35talking about when he was younger and

14:38when he was married he makes about 50%

14:41eye contact so when we were talking to a

14:44person

14:45anytime you talked to a person we asked

14:46him a few questions that that are

14:48general that they have no reason to lie

14:51to and we see that when he's being

14:53truthful

14:53he looks off to the side and he makes

14:55less eye contact so he tends to make a

14:58ton like a hundred percent just about of

15:01eye contact when he's trying to be a

15:03little bit deceptive

15:05we'd also have another thing here this

15:07is the first he mentions Geoffrey's name

15:10in a very friendly way but it's also the

15:12only time you will ever hear it and this

15:16is in our field this is something we

15:18call psychological distancing or

15:20severity softening where we don't say

15:23the person's name I did not have sex

15:25with that woman phrases like that Greg

15:30what do you got yeah a few things one

15:31he's redefining party if you notice it's

15:34his stress word in the entire thing what

15:36he defines his party and what you define

15:38as party I would guarantee would be

15:40different and his idea of partying is

15:43probably back to your your tiger thing

15:45they might be clowns involved but this

15:47is one of those times that he's

15:49redefining that word if you listen to

15:51the stress he does something I call

15:53sacred space he's closed up and he

15:55starts to mill his hands that's an

15:57adapter and a barrier what you're doing

15:59in the reason I call it sacred space is

16:01you're taking control giving yourself a

16:03new place giving yourself a room and

16:04then making familiar the unfamiliar and

16:07it is a comforting move but also a

16:09blocking move to give yourself some room

16:11he drops his chin yes his chin down his

16:14brow up his eyes are closed and his

16:16respiration increases and you'll notice

16:18he's drifted when he opens his eyes he's

16:20drifting down to left down to the left

16:22is a different place than directly left

16:24when a person's accessing memory

16:25typically on their left and now this is

16:27where Scott I do believe in eye movement

16:30I do think it's powerful

16:31you need the baseline someone but if I

16:33ask you to calculate 15% of 980 and you

16:37try it you're gonna find an internal

16:39conversation about math going on your

16:41head and your eyes are gonna drift

16:42slightly down into your left in most

16:43people

16:44now your baseline each person and figure

16:45it out but over and over and over when

16:48he's walking through a minefield you see

16:49that activity that down left is he's

16:52thinking about what to say next and

16:54walking through it I agree with you a

16:56hundred percent mark that in the case of

16:59him going yeah he just felt a bite on

17:03the line and he's gonna let her run with

17:04it and he's teasing her to get her to go

17:06this is a great start down the tunnel

17:09she understands what's happening

17:11he doesn't think she does and the last

17:13thing I'll leave you at you can see the

17:14flirt in him here you can certainly see

17:17the flirt when he makes eye

17:18contact and he turns his head but still

17:20keeps eye contact and then draws that

17:23pulling taffy move

17:24that's the flirt right that's the draw

17:26you into my space and make it

17:28remembering that he is after all a real

17:31Prince not a fairytale Prince right

17:34excellent anybody else yeah I mean what

17:37yeah one thing I would have put on this

17:38is is is in the business of lying you

17:43can't be lazy about it if you can a lie

17:45you've really got to have a good

17:48understanding of what evidence is out

17:50there when it comes to you know I'm not

17:52really anybody who really parted just

17:56just there's too much evidence that

17:58that's not accurate and so everything

18:04from now on has been diminished for him

18:07because we have an image of Andrew in

18:11our head and he's suggesting that we're

18:16not right well this is this is kind of a

18:18gaslighting tactic he's going no reality

18:22isn't as you've seen it for the last

18:24several decades well that's gonna be

18:27hard for the for public opinion to

18:30stomach was a it was a a cosmopolitan

18:33group of whatever described as as US

18:37eminence was that his appeal then was

18:41that what you because you you were

18:43perceived by the public as being the

18:44party Prince was that something

18:46innocence that's also a bit of a stretch

18:50I don't know why I've collected that

18:55title because I don't like I never have

18:58really partied I was single for quite a

19:03long time in the early eighties but then

19:08after I got married I was very happy and

19:12and and I've never really felt the need

19:15to go and party and certainly going to

19:20Jeffrey's was not about partying

19:23absolutely not

19:24thank you anybody else

19:27very good absolutely not

19:30you said you weren't very good friends

19:32but would you describe him as a good

19:34friend did you trust him

19:37yes I think I probably did but again

19:41maybe I don't go into a friendship

19:47looking for the wrong thing if you

19:50understand what I mean I'm an engaging

19:52person

19:53I want to be able to engage I want to

19:56find out I want to learn and so but you

20:01have to remember that I was

20:02transitioning out of the Navy at the

20:04time and in the transition I wanted to

20:08find out more about what was going on

20:12because in the Navy it's a pretty

20:16isolated business because you're out at

20:18sea the whole time and I was going to

20:21become the Special Representative for

20:23international trade and investment so I

20:25wanted to know more about what was going

20:27on in the international business world

20:28and so that was another reason for going

20:31there and the opportunities that I had

20:34to go to Wall Street and other places to

20:37learn whilst I was there were were

20:41absolutely vital all right mark you go

20:44first yeah so what I want to hit on here

20:47is just how he's trying to control this

20:49using Authority and I think what I've

20:52heard Greg and chase talk about kind of

20:54reading out the the resume and and this

20:59idea of or so he starts with if you

21:02understand what I mean so it's pretty

21:05condescending so he's trying to get

21:07compliance by going if you don't join in

21:10with this train of thought my guess is

21:13is you're probably not smart enough to

21:15really understand this because you have

21:18to remember so there's a real

21:20instruction there you have to remember

21:23because it's vital

21:25so he's laying down really clear words

21:29of compliance and then he goes into

21:30because in the Navy

21:32Wall Street he's reading out this resume

21:37of why you would

21:39three with him right now and and many

21:42people might think well isn't that just

21:44kind of verbal tactics well for me it is

21:46nonverbal tactics because he's trying to

21:48create an atmosphere around himself

21:54something that will cause a sense of

21:57authority around him and gain compliance

22:02excellent Greg yeah so we're close on

22:05this one mark

22:06I call him Moses come down from the

22:08mountain he's a life of service he's

22:10done all these things for you

22:11Navy more than one time with a heavy

22:13influence this I needed to learn new

22:16things so I could even be a better

22:18servant to the British people I mean it

22:20that whole life of services here I think

22:23she lets him off the hook a little bit

22:25he feels that lack of pressure and he

22:27starts to be who he really is and to

22:30talk more normally I don't see a whole

22:31lot of deception here to you the same

22:34thing exactly I see he's building this

22:36aura around himself and he's Moses come

22:38down from the mountain exactly chase

22:40what do you get I think he secretly

22:43reveals a lot during this and he said he

22:48starts off by saying I don't go into a

22:51friendship looking for the wrong thing

22:54which may indicate why did you become

22:59friends with this person and he is

23:02feeling persecuted because of because of

23:05that so that's his first first line of

23:08defense is to say that and we noticed

23:12there's a little more distancing there's

23:13no pronouns when he refers to Epstein

23:16here and throughout the statement you

23:19know he's talking about the naval career

23:21there's a little bit of a shoulder shrug

23:23and we start to see a repetitive pattern

23:26that you'll see throughout the entire

23:27video when he needs some reassurance

23:29which he does a lot throughout this

23:32interview you'll see a big eyebrow flash

23:35and makes my contact a big eyebrow flash

23:37and make sure that he gets that he's

23:42kind of communicating uncertainty to

23:44make sure the other person nods and she

23:47does very frequently to help him

23:49keep moving along okay keep it short I'm

23:53seeing a lot of truth here so I'm not

23:55even there are some things are iffy but

23:57still I think there's more truth

23:59indicators than anything in this part

24:01degree building I do think he's being

24:04honest about one thing

24:05this guy Epstein the only reason that he

24:08had the power he had is because he had

24:10the ability to coordinate all these

24:12meetings and I do believe that there's

24:14real value in that to Andrew now and

24:17chase to your point when he said I don't

24:19seek out bad things doesn't mean bad

24:22things didn't come as a part of it

24:24that's a different discussion so I think

24:27sometimes when you're in when you're

24:28interviewing people they inadvertently

24:30give you all the building blocks and you

24:32have to figure out how it all goes

24:33together but I do think that all these

24:35celebrities and all of these wealthy and

24:38powerful people didn't go to Epstein

24:40because he was Epstein but because we

24:42could connect him with he's LinkedIn

24:44right yeah yeah and that's what gives

24:47him their what to say that so hey I was

24:49going everybody else is doing it I'm

24:51gonna - and there's a reason I'm doing

24:52it because I need to for business sir

24:55program

24:56absolutely not you said you weren't very

24:58good friends but would you describe him

25:01as a good friend did you trust him yes I

25:06think I probably did but again I mean I

25:11don't go into a friendship looking for

25:16the wrong thing if you understand what I

25:18mean I'm an engaging person I want to be

25:21able to engage I want to find out I want

25:24to learn and so we have to remember that

25:29I was transitioning out of the Navy at

25:31the time and in the transition I wanted

25:36to find out more about what was going on

25:40because in the Navy it's a pretty

25:43isolated business because you're out at

25:45sea the whole time and I was going to

25:49become the Special Representative for

25:50international trade and investment so I

25:53wanted to know more about what was going

25:54on in the international business world

25:56and so that was another reason for going

25:58there and the opportunities that I had

26:02to go to Wall Street and other places to

26:04learn whilst I was there were were

26:09absolutely vital

26:11very good yep right there were

26:16absolutely vital

26:18he was your guest as well in 2000

26:21Epstein was a guest at Windsor Castle

26:23and at Sandringham he was brought right

26:26into the heart of the royal family at

26:27your invitation but certainly at my

26:30invitation not at the Royal Family's

26:32invitation but remember that it was his

26:36girlfriend that was the key element in

26:40this he was the as it were plus-one to

26:43some extent in that in that so I think

26:46ray yeah Bradley in that one he's really

26:48important to him to shut down that that

26:50whole bit about he came into there you

26:52know into the bowels of the of the royal

26:55family so he had to get hit he starts in

26:58on that earlier with that but stuff

27:01great witty yeah yeah so a couple of

27:03things right off he does something that

27:05Trump is very good at its that

27:08condescending pause and slow and over

27:11pronounced for example when I asked why

27:14he called it a Chinese virus he said he

27:16says because it's from China this is the

27:19same exact move and this is by Prince

27:22Andrew putting him side by side with

27:23Trump and you'll see the same body

27:24language that slow pitch across the

27:27teeth that condescending look at the

27:29same time and he's parsing facts this is

27:32one of those places where if I can take

27:34some of your facts apart then your story

27:36has no value and we've all done this in

27:38an interrogation room or in a body

27:40language session where a guy starts to

27:42say well I didn't kill four people I

27:44killed two people so your story's broken

27:47no matter how ludicrous it is you start

27:49taking the story apart by taking the

27:51underpinnings out of it and then he

27:53starts this whole plus one he's trying

27:55to get back to some kind of normal and

27:57I'll leave it at that

27:58Jason I think he's looking for

28:01confirmation from the other person again

28:03there's a couple of confirmation glances

28:05and this just happens when a person

28:06makes a statement and then looks up in

28:08the middle of it or right afterwards to

28:10make sure you bought it but most of its

28:13truthful I think he's trying to redirect

28:15narrative and we're setting up for the

28:17for the he wasn't my friend she was

28:20excellent mark what do you get yeah so

28:24that jump on the on the invite to - I

28:29think Sandringham may it may have been

28:31and saying that it was him not the royal

28:35family not the Queen and so it's really

28:38important for him at this point

28:40not to involve the monarch once that

28:44happens he's potentially as good as dead

28:48so he's he's and and clearly I would say

28:53from that he is not supported at this

28:56point he has no support from the monarch

28:59if there was support he would be saying

29:01it was it was a royal event and then it

29:04would be unquestionable but at this

29:07point it really is a case of another

29:11example I think of he's out on his own

29:13right now so he's he's surrendering his

29:16immunity of sorts almost and in that way

29:18and that then could explain some of this

29:20cascading of body languages starting to

29:22occur right after this mark I mean I'm

29:24just asking you please don't you know

29:26I've put that in Scott I just because I

29:27don't know anything about royal family

29:29really yeah yeah so the royal family has

29:32it has a history of having to save

29:34itself every now and again it has to

29:37save itself and keep the UK as a

29:39constitutional monarchy which means that

29:42the monarch has power but not really

29:44right and and this would be a great

29:47example of him really understanding that

29:49there's no way that he can involve the

29:53monarch and yet at the same time he's

29:57borrowed his mum's house think I don't

30:04think she knows were absolutely vital

30:08he was your guest as well in 2000

30:11Epstein was the guest at Windsor Castle

30:13and at Sandringham he was brought right

30:16into the heart of the royal family at

30:17your invitation but certainly at my

30:20invitation not at the Royal Family's

30:22invitation

30:23but remember that it was his girlfriend

30:28that was the key element in this he was

30:32the as it were plus one to some extent

30:34in that in there very good there were

30:41were absolutely vital

30:43he was your guests as well in two

30:45thousand Eckstein was a guest at Windsor

30:48Castle and at Sandringham he was brought

30:50right into the heart of the royal family

30:52at your invitation but certainly at my

30:55invitation not at the Royal Family's

30:57invitation but remember that it was his

31:01girlfriend that was the key element in

31:05this he was the as it were plus-one to

31:08some extent in that in there this is my

31:11favorite one am i right in thinking

31:13through a birthday party for Epstein's

31:16girlfriend girl in Maxwell at

31:18Sandringham no it was a shooting weekend

31:22a shooting weekend straight forward

31:23straight forward shooting weekend but

31:26during these times that he was a guest

31:28at Windsor Castle at Sandringham the

31:32shooting weekend we now know that he was

31:37and had been procuring young girls for

31:41sex trafficking we now know that at the

31:46time there was no indication to me or

31:50anybody else that that was what he was

31:54doing alright

31:57that's my favorite one it's it's just

31:59like a Ricky Gervais bit I mean I've

32:01seen that a thousand times on everything

32:03he's ever done he does that one bit

32:05right there

32:05he's comically bracing himself for that

32:08whole thing he goes into everything

32:10moves and he gets ready

32:12he literally braces himself for that

32:13thing to happen you see his foot go up

32:16as a barrier when he's talking about

32:17that his hands of course clasp to

32:20because everything's gonna uh here we go

32:22cuz I don't think he knows how to quite

32:23and he's got an answer but that's not

32:26the answer he was gonna use because he's

32:28guys rehearsed stuff that he was shown

32:30or rehearsed and practice and told to

32:32say but

32:33don't think that's what he's doing there

32:34and his eyebrows are up for that request

32:36of approval greg's all he's talking

32:38about

32:38so he's waiting to he's sort of saying

32:41you believe it do you believe it so Greg

32:43what do you get yes so you hit most of

32:45them but that preparation for defense

32:47he's looking up right he's ramping

32:49himself embracing he breaks eye contact

32:51to come back you come back as a warrior

32:53coming back at her no indication to me

32:56the longest vowel in the entire

32:58conversation is me

33:00emphasizing me and then he says or

33:03anybody else he quickly fills in with a

33:04little at the end asking for approval

33:06his brow is up and then there's a

33:11there's a follow-on I don't know if ur

33:12gonna cover it Scott if we do cut this

33:13piece but then he says and if there was

33:16and if there was okay mark were you good

33:22yeah so let's see whether we cover that

33:24if there was but there's a huge swallow

33:26gesture there on that and then a that a

33:30bunch of resume don't go into let me go

33:36let me go back a little bit which is

33:38that no so it was just just a shooting

33:44weekend you know a straightforward

33:46shooting shooting we check we came to

33:49mat know that comes before it is what

33:52we've called condescension because it is

33:53literally with a dissent condescend it's

33:56with a dissent and this idea of going

34:00from high to low and showing I'm high

34:04status and you're low status it's there

34:07again to get compliance from the

34:10interviewer you know luckily she's she's

34:14or not luckily she's done a lot of work

34:16on being too good for him so it's not

34:20she's not complying with it at this

34:22point I'll hold back on on some other

34:25ideas because I think hopefully we'll

34:26have some follow-ons please pretty yet

34:29right here we have a large inhale right

34:32into the chest there's a postural shift

34:35there's digital flexion which just means

34:37the fingers are squeezing in towards the

34:39hands and we have a temporary gaze

34:40aversion which is when we're making eye

34:43contact with somebody they asked me a

34:45question and

34:46do this right before I answer which are

34:48all deceptive markers but those things

34:51need to kind of combine together like

34:52Legos to for us to say that's probably

34:55deception but they came together pretty

34:58damn well and this one yep and one of

35:00the fact if you're looking at somebody

35:02breathing if you watch a human sleeping

35:04their belly will go up and down not

35:07their chest relaxed people and he's been

35:09on camera all the time and we shouldn't

35:11explain away the nervousness from the

35:12cameras relaxed people breathe in their

35:15abdomen and stress people breathe into

35:18their chest and it's pretty easy to see

35:20in any conversation we see this big

35:22breath in the chest later in the

35:24conversation when he gets more

35:25comfortable it goes right into the

35:26abdomen excellent very good yeah one

35:31last thing as we're watching him

35:32throughout this entire thing chase I

35:34love the fact you pick up on that chest

35:36rising as you're watching this thing any

35:38time his back is turned or anytime he's

35:40in an oblique watch his respiration

35:43increasing because it gets pretty damn

35:45fast moving over the next few minutes

35:47yeah because I we're gonna talk about

35:50his pulse rate here in a few minutes

35:53chase but at one point I think I'm

35:55clocking around I know it's it's 90 up

35:5790 around the seventh question right

35:59there I could be wrong about that

36:01because I kept looking and looking and

36:02looking but me and he's he's burning

36:04through through some of that heart rate

36:06wise and I think exactly at 13 minutes

36:10he is a hundred and three okay yeah and

36:13I think I think we're coming at this

36:16point to a moment of a first real score

36:19where there's a real turnaround for me

36:21in the in the interview and the

36:23interviewer interrogator really scores

36:26of triumph aspect immersion thing you

36:28threw a birthday party for Epstein's

36:31girlfriend girl in Maxwell at

36:32Sandringham no it was a shooting weekend

36:36a shooting week just a straightforward

36:38straightforward shooting weekend but

36:41during these times that he was a guest

36:43at Windsor Castle at Sandringham the

36:46shooting weekend do we now know that he

36:51was and had been procuring young girls

36:55for sex trafficking

36:58we now know that at the time there was

37:02no indication to me or anybody else that

37:06that was what he was doing okay you had

37:13to remember that at the time I was

37:16patron of the NSPCC s full-stop campaign

37:19so I was close up with what was going on

37:23in those time about getting rid of abuse

37:28to children so I knew what was what what

37:31the things were to look for but I never

37:33saw them so you would have made that

37:34connection because you stayed with him

37:36you were a visitor a guest on many

37:38occasions at his homes and nothing

37:41struck you as suspicious during that

37:44whole time just for the record all right

37:49chase what do you got we see a lot here

37:52and in this video we see him start to

37:57develop his narrative and we see a

38:00little more lip licking behavior which

38:02we call hygienic gestures we see the

38:05stroking of the hands back and forth and

38:07this is a pacifying gesture I think it's

38:11meant to calm him down a little bit he

38:13knows the questions are getting a little

38:15bit more difficult and you'll typically

38:16see him do this for the rest of the

38:17interview after he answers a difficult

38:20question to kind of calm himself back

38:22down and you'll see his hands and feet

38:24go crazy and further a body part is from

38:26the head the harder it is to control

38:28when you've got adrenaline flowing

38:29through you so his foot is in a great

38:31spot for an interrogator to watch that

38:35happen excellent Greg what do you get

38:38yeah so a couple of things he does

38:40steepling you know this thing where you

38:42put your hands up this way oh never

38:44anybody who's ever watched the Simpsons

38:45mr. burns is like excellent you know

38:47it's an authority figure it's also a

38:50compromising thing because your hands

38:52rotate as you're feeling more and more

38:54compromised as I want to agree with you

38:57my fans will do that and then even

38:58you'll see people's hands upside down as

39:00they feel compromised I have a great

39:02picture mark of tony blair staying in

39:04front of Condoleezza Rice with his hands

39:05down like yeah really bad idea so it's a

39:09it's a gimme if you're a body language

39:10guy then in persons

39:11it's doing this I love it because I can

39:13watch your hands rotate as I get control

39:15it's a wonderful tool and you can see

39:18him also grinding his fingertips to your

39:21point chase he's starting to adapt

39:22trying to get comfortable rub he's

39:25trying to contain that body language in

39:26his fingertips

39:27somebody's coached him to pay attention

39:29he there's also he says in here I he

39:34takes holy ground again I was the saint

39:37looking out for children who being

39:39abused and later in the same interview

39:42says well I wouldn't have noticed

39:44anything like that because I wouldn't

39:46have suspected it well come on you can't

39:49have it both ways so I think he steps

39:51into a bear trap here that she uses

39:52against him later it's a resume

39:54statement yes it is and later when he

39:57says I would not notice it he's

40:00discounting his resume which is

40:03beautiful yeah mark yeah so let's just

40:07just dig into that resume statement

40:08because I think it's really important

40:10for people to understand what he's

40:12talking about there the National Society

40:14for the Prevention of Cruelty to

40:16Children and he's saying well you you

40:20have to remember so I knew he uses this

40:22a lot he uses ideas like well it's funny

40:25or you know you need to understand or

40:28you have to remember you have to

40:31remember at that time I was the patron

40:33of the NSPCC so that he was the father

40:37of it

40:39he's saying there is absolutely no way

40:43that I can ever be involved in anything

40:46like that because I've taken a patron

40:50such herb you know position and of

40:52course we know that's not factual

40:55and in fact Britain has a history of

40:59people hiding in plain sight and using

41:03these institutions and and founding them

41:06and certainly supporting them in order

41:09that they can look you know clean so as

41:14as a public we're not really buying it

41:18it's a foolish move of his and it

41:21doesn't make any sense and I think

41:24because of all

41:25of those things we know he's not

41:27connected with his audience at the

41:29moment he has no help at the moment I

41:32think I think Greg to your point he's

41:34going back to coaching that he's had he

41:36may be going back to resistance to

41:39interrogation that he may have had as a

41:42helicopter pilot my guess is he would

41:44certainly have had that he's keeping

41:46himself very tucked in very still but

41:49he's using some he's making some classic

41:52errors of how not to perform in this

41:57kind of situation and I believe it's

41:59because he has no help at this point

42:02he's on his own he has no advice and

42:05he's not taking any advice do you work

42:09resistance to interrogation has its

42:11place and the person who knows what

42:13they're doing and I won't point out what

42:14they're doing certainly has some tools I

42:17will say that the one thing he does very

42:19well throughout this thing is he is a

42:21master of stammering for a fact he it's

42:25his pattern

42:26it's how he controls a conversation he

42:27sets up the next sentence Scott you and

42:29I talk move it about this you have some

42:31more insight on that piece and I think

42:32you could add that in here yes so what's

42:34bugging me here is we're seeing him

42:35explain that he's the guy in charge or

42:38he's one of the main guys understands

42:39what this is what it is when when when

42:42people are trafficking children and he

42:45says he knows what these things are to

42:46look for however he doesn't see him and

42:49I think as trainers we know what those

42:51things are and we be able to point him

42:52out instantly as soon as we saw

42:54something like that you have to remember

42:55that at the time I was patron of the

42:59NSPCC s full-stop campaign so I was

43:02close up with what was going on in those

43:07time about getting rid of abuse to

43:10children so I knew what was what what

43:12the things were to look for but I never

43:14saw them so you would have made that

43:16connection because you stayed with him

43:18you were a visitor a guest on many

43:20occasions at his homes and nothing

43:23struck him as suspicious

43:25during that whole time anybody got

43:29anything else not good goodbye

43:34just for the record you've been on his

43:37private plane yes you've been to stay on

43:40his private island yes you've stayed at

43:43his home in Palm Beach yes you visited

43:47Galen Maxwell's house in Belgravia in

43:50London yes all right what do you got

43:54chase

43:55so to Greg's point one thing when we

43:58look at a movement what I called for

44:01just me personally I call it home where

44:04is someone's home when we asked him a

44:06question of what happened certain day

44:09there his home is to our right somewhere

44:12near the middle area and when we ask

44:15somebody a geographical location and we

44:18asked him to imagine visual things or

44:20geography they typically look another

44:22direction so we get another sense of

44:23that here when we asked him where it was

44:26and he was making sure so his to his up

44:29and left is a little geographical area

44:32and maybe all we're doing is just kind

44:35of collecting some data points here

44:36but we see that completely accurate

44:41instantaneous yeah yep yep and during

44:45those there's some i blocking going on

44:47and we kind of close our eyes during

44:49some we're recalling something emotional

44:51or recalling something that we really

44:52don't want to do but right at the end

44:54when they're talking about the house in

44:56London you see him say yes followed by

45:00an immediate eye flutter behavior

45:02afterwards which I think shows that

45:05something happened there and if I'm the

45:07interviewer that's the moment that I

45:10pushed the shovel into the dirt I'm

45:11gonna start digging the moment that I

45:14see that I flutter because it was one

45:16behavior one behavior one behavior and

45:18then we see a flutter in response to the

45:20other one okay I'm like I'm gonna add

45:23something to that because I think

45:25there's something really important going

45:27on here with the third question there

45:29when he says yes to that the the first

45:32time first question she asked him he

45:34said he closed his eyes two times and

45:35we've talked before about and chase you

45:38call it the when the lands closes really

45:40quickly because you're waiting to look

45:42at something really quick so you're yeah

45:44the shutter speed your eyes Jesus

45:46relaxed that first one yeah

45:47things cool he's got two blanks there

45:49the second question for all right a

45:51little bit more I'm the third one he

45:54only goes to two but there's so much

45:55going on in that third thing something's

45:58up

45:58something has happened at that house

46:00something's going on there because

46:01here's what here's what we see

46:03when she asked that the first one yes

46:06his lips pursed a little bit he's like

46:08yeah here we go she's gonna nail me for

46:10being at these places that's

46:11understandable and then when he gets to

46:13the third one when he talks about the

46:16the home in or is it Palm Beach the

46:20right side of his upper lip goes up a

46:22little bit

46:22like is in contempt or disdain or

46:24whatever we see that go that and his

46:26cheek as well we see that we'll get into

46:28micro-expressions for me that we're not

46:30really doing that because these things

46:31are so big so let's but let's let's dial

46:33down on some of this stuff and I think

46:37something either bad happened there

46:39something's not right there it's the

46:41only place where when he answers these

46:43his eyebrows go up he looks for that I

46:46don't know if he's looking for approval

46:47or what's going on there Greg you have

46:49to look you have to you have to see that

46:51again

46:51but there's something on there it's the

46:53only time we see that the bottom parts

46:55of the whites of his eyes is eyes open

46:57so wide we can see those that's the only

46:59time we see that he's running something

47:01something in there has happened because

47:03we're seeing that that almost Pam's laws

47:08were padlocked reaction to that to that

47:11question when that word comes up he's

47:13like bang something happens there very

47:14quickly that he may be ready for that I

47:17can't tell but that's the only time as

47:20the eyebrows lift that high and it's and

47:23it's his longest delay before he answers

47:25all the other ones are just like the

47:27rhythm is right there is loping but when

47:29he hits that one there's a there's a

47:31slight just a little longer of a pause

47:33before he before he answers so I would

47:36say something's up there either he had a

47:38bad experience there or it was afraid

47:40he's gonna get busted there or

47:41something's up in that situation I don't

47:43know what it is maybe we'll find out

47:44later on but I would I would try to

47:47remember that the the the Palm Beach

47:50house because I think something's up

47:52there I think something's up there mark

47:54what do you got yeah so let's just look

47:56at the tonality of of those yeses

47:59because they're a good baseline if we

48:01we take away everything that we're

48:02seeing he goes yes yes yes all the

48:09tonality czar the same around that a

48:12great baseline for us to to judge these

48:17telling the truth they're very different

48:19from what we heard before yeah yeah yeah

48:22very different now absolutely we see on

48:26that third one those eyes dart across

48:29and there all of us there again will

48:31there summon up there well I think there

48:34are two things up number one is we're

48:36gonna find out there's a photograph

48:37first heart okay there's a picture taken

48:41in that place but there's summing up as

48:45well because he already has his argument

48:49for that he already has his argument for

48:52that and he gave away his argument at

48:53the start which is that I do remember

48:58but other stuff

48:59he just doesn't recall he doesn't

49:03remember and so I think that dart across

49:06is number one about ah yeah that's

49:08that's the place with the photograph and

49:11I've got my solution I've got my way out

49:15of that one I don't remember it and then

49:18we're gonna go into a whole bunch of

49:20stuff around the idea that if you can't

49:22prove that a photograph isn't fake it

49:27could be me this one is preparation

49:35right this is a naval officer and

49:37royalty he's prepared for this that yes

49:40yes yes these are facts I think you are

49:44starting to see real fight or flight

49:45here he does a math grooming move if you

49:48notice this what he pushes its tongue

49:50there's a reason you're doing that

49:52protein builds up in your mouth from

49:54stress and mucous membranes start to

49:57decay fairly quickly without blood flow

49:59and the things dry up and then a little

50:01bit of mucus comes in and the next thing

50:02you know you got the stringy garbage

50:04producing in your mouth and yourself

50:06groom I've seen that thousands of times

50:09in sere I would see protein buildup in

50:12the corners your mouth you get white

50:14protein caked up and

50:15your mouth because the level of stress

50:16that's a really bad indicator that a

50:18person is in fight-or-flight that you'll

50:20probably never see in your life but here

50:23you're seeing it in a very wealthy

50:26person who is under high stress from a

50:28different cause that internal mouth

50:30group grooming is because he's dry in

50:32the mouth you may not have protein

50:33breakdown yet but he's certainly a

50:35mucous membrane but he's certainly

50:36feeling the effects of fight or flight

50:39number one I think the quick glance is

50:42because he's prepared very well to

50:44answer yes I did this yes I did this yes

50:46I did this and I think to your guy's

50:48point he has a plan for how he is going

50:50to unfold this story and this is one of

50:53those old moments I don't want to jump

50:55ahead that far I think he has a plan and

50:57so you see that movement otherwise you

50:59guys have covered everything except

51:01respiration is ramping rapidly now fight

51:05or flight you see the nostrils flaring

51:07see the skin getting lighter and the

51:09best part of this whole thing is he's

51:11aging as you watch him his face is

51:13looking older by the minute so that by

51:15the end of this and guys were seven

51:17minutes in and you're seeing his eyes

51:19bagging his face sagging all of those

51:22things that you expect from a president

51:25who goes through this but not in seven

51:28minutes you're seeing a difference in

51:29his face the stress is there just for

51:34the record you've been on his private

51:36plane yes you've been to stay on his

51:39private island yes you've stayed at his

51:42home in Palm Beach yes you visited Galen

51:46Maxwell's house in Belgravia in London

51:49yes no here we go here in London yes

51:55so in 2006 in May an arrest warrant was

52:00issued for Epstein for sexual assault of

52:03a minor yes

52:04in July he was invited to Windsor Castle

52:07to your daughter Princess Beatrice's

52:1018th birthday why would you do that

52:13because I was asking Guerlain but even

52:17so at the time I don't think I certainly

52:22I wasn't aware when the invitation was

52:25issued what was going on in the United

52:27States and I

52:28to where until until the media picked up

52:30with me because he never said anything

52:31about it

52:32alright now this is the part where it's

52:35easy to say what his pulse rate is from

52:37looking at that that foot sticking out

52:39there you know so chase well we start

52:41with you so that artery is pushing the

52:44foot and little jerks and you can see it

52:46this luckily we've got HD video of his

52:49feet so if you if I think his foot was

52:53on camera for seven seconds his foot

52:56went about eight or nine times and I did

52:59nine divided by whatever times I saw it

53:04and then multiply that by 60 and we got

53:06a pulse rate so if we saw X number of

53:08things in 12 seconds 12 divided by six

53:11or whatever is whatever and then we'll

53:14multiply that by 16 that'll give me the

53:16heart rate but what we're seeing here is

53:20we see more severity softening here and

53:25severity softening for for you watching

53:28it's this is so one of the most common

53:32things when we do an interrogation for

53:35somebody that's guilty they don't want

53:36to say murder they'll say hurt they

53:38don't want to say steal they'll say take

53:40they don't want to say rape though

53:42they'll say have sex with so we'll

53:45soften the severity of everything and

53:47it's so so deep here that he doesn't say

53:51when I found out about the sex ring he

53:54just says when I found out about what

53:56was happening in America so this is this

54:00is a big deal to look for in the in the

54:03next few videos okay Greg what do you

54:06got yeah his blunt race through the roof

54:09watch his tie and you can see his pulse

54:12pounding it's almost like a little

54:14signal there you can see he's ramped up

54:17he hits the whole moment here for sure

54:19he seemed rolling his eyes and then he

54:23he goes to his stammering defense words

54:26he goes back to the idea friend it was

54:30my friend

54:31it was Golan it wasn't him and you know

54:33I don't care who it was

54:35if tomorrow Scott I found out that your

54:38best friend was a was a child trafficker

54:40I'd say Scott

54:41you're welcome your child trafficking

54:43friend can stay home you know that kind

54:45of thing but he's got an excuse for this

54:47if you watch him you'll see that moment

54:50when he realizes that this is going to

54:52be a problem he's poised for a fighter

54:53flight all this stuff starts to ramp up

54:54he goes back to his defense words he

54:56stumbles any person and he starts to

54:58pursed his lips are the things that I

55:00noticed in it agree with you 100% that

55:03softening worms that blame [ __ ] people

55:07blame share they go to softening words

55:09they try to get away from the act right

55:11right and I had a deception on that okay

55:18mark what do you get

55:19I just want to mark out one thing to

55:22Greg's earlier point on the words arrest

55:26warrant from the interviewer you get a

55:29push of the tongue inside the mouth here

55:35so you know there's that moment there of

55:38you've now been friends with somebody

55:42who definitely has an arrest warrant so

55:45there is crime going on you are you're

55:48friends with somebody who needs

55:50arresting for something criminal my

55:54guess would be in fact my knowledge

55:56would be is you don't get a warrant

55:57unless there's really good evidence so

56:01the moment you've got an arrest warrant

56:02for a crime of that nature it's pretty

56:06good you know pretty good that something

56:09went on okay

56:10and I would add one more thing which

56:12again is this authority idea is that

56:16they both pronounced Gail n jizz length

56:21differently differently and it's very

56:25marked how to say you don't know how to

56:29pronounce my friend's name you don't

56:34you're not part of this group this group

56:37is a little bit higher than you and you

56:39don't know how to even use the right

56:42words somebody who didn't want

56:46compliance and was looking for

56:49relationship would most likely just join

56:52in on the name being pronounced slightly

56:55wrong

56:55you know they from their point of view

56:58he's very clear about letting the

57:00interviewer know that she keeps

57:02pronouncing in his mind his friend's

57:04name incorrectly she's not part of the

57:07same society here in London yes so in

57:132006 in May an arrest warrant was issued

57:16for Epstein for sexual assault of a

57:19minor yes in July he was invited to

57:23Windsor Castle to your daughter Princess

57:26Beatrice's 18th birthday why would you

57:29do that because I was asking d'Alene

57:31but even so at the time I don't think I

57:37certainly I wasn't aware when the

57:40invitation was issued what was going on

57:42in the United States and I wasn't aware

57:44until until the media picked up on it

57:46because he never said anything about it

57:48anybody else want to have you think I

57:49want to add to this for II get out of

57:52here just just stay tuned because if you

57:56thought that was pretty bad his worries

57:59a lot worse

58:04[Music]