Full transcript
0:10Robyn: Perry Klebahn is the Director
0:11of Executive Education at the d.school
0:14and an adjunct faculty professor at Stanford
0:16School of Engineering.
0:18He's a seasoned entrepreneur and a product designer.
0:20But despite his years of running startups and corporations,
0:23Perry's true calling is teaching, which
0:25is why we love to have him.
0:27It's so much fun.
0:28And then also with us today we have Jeremy Utley.
0:31Jeremy is the Director of Executive Education
0:33at the d.school and an adjunct professor at Stanford
0:36School of Engineering.
0:37He's also an outstanding collaborator
0:39and teaches many celebrated courses at Stanford.
0:41Gentlemen, it's always a pleasure.
0:44Thank you for being here with us today, and take it away.
0:48PERRY KLEBAHN: Awesome.
0:49JEREMY UTLEY: Thanks so much, Robyn.
0:50We're thrilled to get to see everyone today.
0:52And we're excited to get started.
0:55This question, what is design thinking and why should I care,
0:58is something that we hear often at Stanford and in the world.
1:01And there's a great thing about design thinking
1:03becoming a popular term, which is that lots of people
1:06are curious about it.
1:07It's somewhat well known.
1:09But there's a downside, which is that all of a sudden
1:11it starts to seem special or inaccessible.
1:15And that's ironic for us because the goal of design thinking
1:19is actually to make the tools and mindsets and ways
1:23of thinking that have helped designers solve problems
1:27available to folks who don't consider themselves
1:29to be designers or maybe even don't consider
1:31themselves to be creative.
1:33So very simply, design thinking is
1:35a way of coming up with ideas and seeing
1:37whether they're any good.
1:39Very simply, and it's meant to be not some specialized thing
1:43that's reserved for the chosen few,
1:46but a set of tools that can help anyone
1:48in any career in any organization in any role
1:51in the organization be more effective at solving
1:54the problems you're tackling there.
1:56Whether those problems look like introducing new products
1:59into the market or crafting a sales pitch
2:02or writing a subject line to an email
2:04or designing an expense reimbursement process,
2:08we see all of those as opportunities
2:12for design thinking or for coming up with ideas
2:14and learning whether they're good ideas.
2:16Very simply just to get started, we
2:18want to start with this quote by Linus Pauling.
2:22He said, "To get a good idea, you need a lot of ideas."
2:25And that's something that very few people really appreciate.
2:30It's said so simply, as only a two time Nobel Prize
2:33winning chemist could say it, but it's actually profound.
2:36What the research indicates is that the single most important
2:41variable that affects how good your ideas are
2:45is how many ideas you have.
2:49And so while many people are really
2:51focused on coming up with better ideas,
2:53the truth is they should be coming up with more ideas.
2:57The way to get to better is actually to generate more.
3:00And what we would say is that design thinking
3:03is an exceptional idea generation methodology
3:06to put it very simply.
3:07It's a great way to come up with a volume of ideas.
3:11And you may be familiar with a process visualization
3:14that we've used and popularized now
3:17about 10 or 15 years ago through a video that Perry and I made.
3:20And we released it on YouTube.
3:21It ended up being viewed, gosh, half a million
3:24or maybe even a million times.
3:26And so this visualization became very popular.
3:28Probably more popular than it should have become.
3:31But it became a way to describe one way to think about what
3:35designers do, which is very simply,
3:37they empathize with people they're trying to design
3:39for-- meaning they try to get to know them and understand
3:42their feelings and emotions, et cetera--
3:44then they define a problem to be solved--
3:47meaning they start with that loose understanding
3:49of human beings and say, what problem really
3:52matters to those people--
3:53and then the IDH or they generate
3:55a bunch of potential solutions.
3:57And through a series of prototyping and testing,
3:59implement and refine and discover whether their ideas
4:03are any good.
4:04And the useful thing about this way of visualizing the process
4:07is it helps us put various tools that designers might use,
4:11that we might recommend that anyone in any role
4:14might consider bringing into their problem solving process,
4:17it helps us put them into buckets.
4:20That's been really great.
4:21The downside of us using this visualization is
4:25a lot of people have taken design thinking
4:28as a recipe of sorts or a formula of sorts.
4:31And they assume that if you empty the powder into the bowl
4:34and then you add water and then you beat it and add an egg,
4:38that all of a sudden a cake is going to come out.
4:40And so it's a little bit misleading,
4:43insofar as it looks like a linear sequence of events
4:46that has a clear beginning and an end point.
4:48It's more a set of mindsets.
4:50And so rather than talking about a fixed process
4:53per se, what we thought would be fun to do
4:55is actually introduce design thinking by way of a story.
4:58Because we have the incredible privilege
5:00of getting to interact with some of the most
5:02innovative individuals and innovative organizations
5:05and even organizations that don't really seem innovative,
5:07but their employees actually are.
5:10And they're doing really cool things.
5:11And we hear a bunch of great stories.
5:13And we feel that we're stewards of those stories.
5:15And we have the opportunity to showcase
5:17how a mindset of a designer leads to breakthroughs
5:21and leads to realizations and meaningful impact
5:25in human being's lives.
5:26So we want to tell the story of our friend
5:28Bill Pacheco who had a very illustrious career,
5:32not only as an engineering leader at Cybex, but also
5:36as a director at Keurig Dr. Pepper.
5:39And he now teaches at Trinity College.
5:42Most importantly though, I like to think
5:44that the most important organization he's involved with
5:47is Perry's nightmare, where he is
5:49my doubles partner in tennis.
5:51And we like to give Perry a hard time on the tennis court.
5:53But Perry, would you like to tell the story of Bill
5:55and his incredible innovations?
5:58PERRY KLEBAHN: Yes, so a pleasure-- just
6:00to clarify on the tennis front, you know, there's
6:04another partner involved.
6:05I have a doubles partner.
6:06Logan may be on the group right now--
6:08Logan Deans and I. And Bill gets a lot of practice
6:13these days because he and his brother play all the time.
6:15So anyway, you know, I'm pretty busy here Bill--
6:19you know, so anyway.
6:21Bill also teaches at BU now as well, so Boston University.
6:25Terrific fellow, and it's such a pleasure.
6:27One of the great things about doing the work we do
6:29is actually being able to, not only
6:32talk about alumni of the programs,
6:34but use these live examples.
6:36And this is something great about the programs
6:38we put together is, it's just terrific with LinkedIn
6:41and hear stories from you all, and see how you're
6:43using the tools we teach.
6:44And it actually drives a lot of the changes.
6:47Bill for example, the story I'm about to share with you,
6:50a lot of the techniques we use in prototyping that one step
6:54Jeremy talked about, have come from the direct work
6:57with Bill Pacheco.
6:58So that we'll tell you about.
7:00So for those of you that--
7:02the two companies mentioned, Keurig is a coffee company.
7:06It has those capsules.
7:07You may, if you've stayed in a hotel or been to an airport
7:11or whatever, their these capsules.
7:13And they have this neat technology.
7:14He did the product design there for a period of time
7:18with the team.
7:18And also earlier in his career, when we met him,
7:21he was working at a company called Cybex.
7:24If you've been on a treadmill machine,
7:26if you've been on an elliptical trainer, a stationary bicycle,
7:30they're one of the major, major suppliers
7:33of equipment like that.
7:34And chances are you've been on something actually
7:36Bill's designed if you've been to a hotel gym
7:39and actually used anything, or a big corporate gym.
7:43So with that, wanted to go and talk a little bit--
7:47so we're going to dive a little bit deeper--
7:49so what we're going to tell is a story
7:51of Bill using design thinking as a way
7:53to sort of bring life to the steps that Jeremy spoke about,
7:59and actually be able to talk to you about what
8:02this looks like in real life.
8:04And I think that's a big component.
8:05What we're passionate about with this program
8:07is we cover all aspects of design thinking--
8:10how you might use it in teams, and how you might use it
8:12in the larger organization, which
8:14is what this story is about.
8:15So here's Cybex.
8:18Cybex is part of a group of competitors making product.
8:22So we're going to talk a little bit about treadmills.
8:25So treadmills, the thing you hop on top of and you run and you
8:29actually use for a workout.
8:31OK, so these are their competitors.
8:34So at the time we sort of click into this,
8:35this is about 10 years ago, probably,
8:39Bill was doing this kind of work.
8:41And these are the competitors.
8:43And like any company, they're sort of
8:46duking it out with these people, fighting for market share.
8:50And Bill having had training in design thinking, went to a gym
8:57and actually used some of the techniques of empathy.
9:00That first stage is you sort of open up your brain,
9:04you observe, you maybe inquire and actually
9:08talk to folks, asking more open ended questions,
9:10but you leave yourself open to inputs--
9:12there's many, many different techniques.
9:14This is a good example of observation.
9:16So what Bill did is he took his notebook, spent a while,
9:19and just stayed and watched.
9:21And what he noticed-- you can tell--
9:23he shared these pictures.
9:24You can see these folks if you just
9:25go in close to your screen.
9:27You'll see these amazing machines that
9:29have all this terrific technology
9:31and these monitors and all this stuff,
9:33people are holding on to all the screens
9:35and holding onto things for dear life.
9:37And he got the sense there's something more going
9:40on here than I'm aware of.
9:45Something we seek to understand in those early stages of design
9:48thinking is understanding emotions of the users.
9:52He didn't measure how long are people
9:55on the treadmill, how much do they talk about it,
9:57it wasn't data collection.
9:59He was really looking at faces.
10:00And what he noticed was the emotion that was fear.
10:04When he noticed was people were afraid on these machines.
10:06And he thought, oh my god, that's super interesting
10:09to understand and use that to launch into design thinking
10:12and begin to understand why they might be feeling fear
10:17and take a sort of a very open perspective to that.
10:21So as he talked to folks and began to understand,
10:25he developed some ideas around basically
10:29changing the structure around these products.
10:33So keep in mind now he's part of an organization, Cybex.
10:36He has a boss.
10:38And this is a category of product
10:40that the assumption was, like many products,
10:43it's pretty much set.
10:45There's a treadmill you run on.
10:47There's a screen.
10:49You know, we've got lots of competitors.
10:50There's much better things, you know, Bill could be working on.
10:54So he sort of did some quick drawings.
10:57He sort of said, I'm going to try
10:58to make a machine that deals with this aspect of fear
11:01and maybe gives people more places to hold onto.
11:04He did some quick prototypes.
11:06He did some quick drawings.
11:08And like we all do, he went to his boss,
11:10and he showed it to him.
11:12And this is the note he got back.
11:14So for those of you who can't read it, it says--
11:16he did this presentation and showed--
11:18there's a picture behind this that's hidden--
11:20but it's a prototype with these PVC pipes
11:23that he sort of built out quickly,
11:24which is a technique of rapid prototyping.
11:26So he's got this insight about fear.
11:28He's done some work to build something.
11:30He's got some ideas, and his boss Ray says,
11:33I'm not a fan of anything in this presentation.
11:36So part of what we see as folks use
11:39these tools and techniques in their organization is they're
11:42new.
11:43And part of what--
11:44Jeremy actually does a component with another collaborator
11:46from Stanford, Justin Farrell, about how
11:50you might think about approaching the organizations.
11:52This was a typical response.
11:54There's nothing to do with treadmills.
11:57Treadmills are a safe business.
11:59His boss wanted him to move on and do something else.
12:04Bill knew he had a great insight.
12:05He knew the end user was afraid.
12:08He knew there needed to be changes.
12:10He could tell there was an opportunity
12:12to sort of pursue this further.
12:14So what he did was he went a step further.
12:16And he actually decided to take a little bit
12:18of extra time, not a huge amount of time,
12:21but built up some really quick prototypes and began to,
12:25sort of, put these extra railings on,
12:27and these things that were, sort of, designed very,
12:29very differently to allow people points of connection
12:33to the machine that weren't about the electronics
12:35and things that were not intended
12:37for that purpose, which is what he saw before.
12:39And he did a really interesting thing--
12:41that is you get to the design process,
12:44he noticed something in empathy--
12:47this idea of fear.
12:48He framed it up and said, I'm going
12:49to build a machine that addresses
12:50these points of stability and these fear points
12:55and what drives that fear.
12:56He ideated, came up with a bunch of ideas--
12:58that was that presentation.
12:59He did one step further.
13:01He said, hey, I'm going to prototype and test.
13:03And that's a great way to validate, to say,
13:06I'm going to put this out there for just a little bit
13:08and see how the user responds to it.
13:11So his idea was to show his boss ultimately
13:14some information from that prototype and test cycle, which
13:17is what we espouse.
13:19So he went out, and he put these really rough prototypes--
13:21they look really polished, but he's literally
13:23welding little bars onto them and making them look good.
13:26He took them to a hotel gym.
13:28And he measured how many people picked the machine
13:31with these new rails and new sort of ergonomics,
13:35how many people picked the existing machine.
13:37There were just side by side.
13:38And he got really good data.
13:39And something we espoused with our students
13:41is how do you actually put something out in the world
13:45and use it to make sure you validate it.
13:48Not only validate the problem--
13:50Jeremy talked about there's sort of two things going on.
13:52He definitely validated by people
13:54picking one or the other.
13:56There's something to the aspect of fear.
13:58They look at that machine and they say, no, no, no.
14:00They want this one.
14:01And then he would talk to people after using it,
14:03and see what their experience was like and get that data.
14:06That data allowed him ultimately to put something into market.
14:10So this was a success financially--
14:14great for the company, great outcome.
14:17But more so, what Bill knew was he was solving
14:20a real human need, which is at the core of what we teach
14:23with design thinking, is too often
14:25we sort of walk through life accepting an existing problem
14:28statement.
14:29A lot of business problems statements
14:30might be around how do we increase revenue
14:32or how do we sell more.
14:34And the reframe that happened with Bill was he learned,
14:36hey for our products, there's this emotion fear.
14:40And I'm going to actually use that to design, and ultimately
14:44design a far better product.
14:45And it's a great outcome and a terrific product.
14:48And if you see it in the marketplace,
14:49you'll know all the back story of where it came from.
14:52But I think a good example of running
14:53through that entire cycle of design.
14:57JEREMY UTLEY: It's an amazing story.
14:58And there's some amazing comments happening in the chat
15:01too.
15:02Someone mentioned-- let's see, Ray said,
15:05wait you're telling me that he took action and made
15:08a prototype even after his boss said he didn't like it.
15:11And what we'd say is there's really
15:12two really important things there
15:14that are worth unpacking just in response to that question,
15:18right, or that realization, right.
15:19Because a lot of us go, my boss said he hates it, so it's done.
15:23But design thinking is really useful.
15:26And it relates to Vivian's point around the pandemic of trust
15:29as well.
15:31Design thinking puts us in such close proximity to the people
15:34that we're designing for or we're trying to innovate for.
15:37And it could be a human being in a gym.
15:39It could also be an employee who's the recipient of an HR
15:43policy, or an employee who's trying to file their expense
15:47reimbursements, or it could be any one of those things, right.
15:51So we don't mean to only limit this way of thinking
15:54to new product introductions.
15:56But the point is using a designer's mindset,
15:59one of the things we advocate is getting
16:01close to the people whose lives you are
16:03hoping to impact by your work.
16:05And what happened for Bill is he got conviction
16:09that people were afraid.
16:11People felt unsafe.
16:12And as he's watching and interacting
16:14with people in gyms, that conviction grew.
16:16There's a need for a perception of safety here that I feel
16:21is a real human need, a real human pain
16:24that deserves to be met.
16:25And we've seen that countless times with many individuals
16:29inside of organizations, the senior management will say--
16:32to our friend Doug Dietz who pioneered an incredible
16:35innovation at GE with a pediatric device--
16:39the senior leadership at the time
16:40said, there's very few pediatric wards in the United States.
16:43Don't waste your time on this.
16:45But just like Bill, Doug had engaged
16:48with the people whose lives he was
16:49trying to improve with design.
16:52And he felt their pain strongly enough
16:55to ignore what his bosses said effectively.
16:58And one of the amazing things about design
17:00is all of a sudden, you can quickly
17:02become the resident expert in the people's lives
17:05who you're hoping to transform with your work efforts.
17:08And so that's the first thing.
17:09The second thing is-- and I think it's also related
17:11to Ray's question about, wait, Bill just push through even
17:14though his boss said no--
17:16what he realized is his boss is reacting to an idea,
17:20but he has no information.
17:21He doesn't understand.
17:23There's no way to contextualize the idea other than according
17:25to his own past history.
17:28And what Bill realized and what's
17:29really magical is part of the design mindset is saying,
17:33really quickly I can actually create data.
17:36Our organizations love data, and we
17:38think about looking up data and looking up research reports.
17:41But what designers are doing-- or what
17:43individuals who don't consider themselves
17:45creative or designers before, but who
17:47are using these tools-- that's who we're calling designers.
17:50What designers do is they're actually finding clever ways
17:54to create new data sets, which help
17:57them make better decisions.
17:58And as Perry mentioned, when Bill
18:00put the couple of prototype units inside of a hotel,
18:04he was able to watch people vote with their feet.
18:07And so even though Ray's got 65 patents in the space,
18:10and even though he thinks it's a bad idea,
18:12he can't deny the fact that when 30 people walked into the gym,
18:1628 of them chose this machine.
18:18Why did they choose it?
18:19That really validated the sense of fear
18:21that Bill had picked up on, right.
18:23And so it's that kind of enlightened trial and error
18:26that we're advocating, where you're really deeply connecting
18:29with the people whose lives you're hoping to change.
18:31And then you're willing humbly to be learning whether you've
18:34got it right or not.
18:35And if Bill had implemented it and it didn't go well,
18:38I think he would have given up the hunt.
18:40Or he would have found a different way
18:41to go about trying to convey a sense of safety.
18:44But the point is not insubordination.
18:47The point is thoughtful care about how
18:49do we impact the people whose lives we are trying to impact.
18:53And how can we help stimulate our own thinking.
18:56As we said at the beginning with this Linus Pauling quote,
19:00we need a lot of ideas.
19:02And there's some research that indicates
19:04that the average corporate brainstorm generates
19:07two ideas, just two.
19:09And so what design thinking does is
19:12it helps teams overcome that tendency
19:15to settle very, very quickly.
19:18But we mentioned before that this way
19:20that we've been describing the design process is a little bit
19:23outdated.
19:24And so what we thought would be fun
19:26to do before we dive into some more of these questions here--
19:28and Perry, maybe you can be looking at the questions
19:30and seeing if there's anything that we
19:31want to start with-- but we thought
19:33it'd be useful to say how we think about describing
19:36the process now.
19:37If it's not these five colorful hexagons,
19:40how do we describe it now?
19:41And what we'd say is very simply design thinking
19:44is made an advance on conventional problem solving.
19:47Where conventional problem solving basically is this--
19:50a boss says implement this solution.
19:52They hand you a grain of sand.
19:54They hand you an idea on a post-it.
19:55Do this, right.
19:56That's it.
19:57And design thinking makes two meaningful advances.
20:00The first advance that we advocate
20:02is we say, hang on, before we converge on one solution, let's
20:06diverge.
20:07And let's generate as many possible ideas or ways
20:10to solve the problem that's been given as possible.
20:14So the first step is diverge before we converge, right.
20:17And that's an enormous advance over implement this solution.
20:20The other significant advance that we
20:22have made in the d.school is that we said,
20:25actually let's recognize that there's
20:27two pieces to any problem solving endeavor.
20:31And we think a lot about problem solving,
20:33but let's stop for a second.
20:34Let's talk about problem finding.
20:36Because really implicit to any solution we're
20:38trying to implement is a problem that we think we want to solve.
20:41And what designers have become very adept at
20:45is being as clear about the problem
20:48they're trying to solve as they are about the solution
20:50that they're advocating.
20:52And just like with the solution, it's also
20:55an opportunity that we diverge, we generate
20:57lots of potential problems and ways
20:59of thinking about the problem or framing, as we might say,
21:02before we converge.
21:03And it's useful to think that there's
21:05these two discrete outputs to a design effort.
21:08Because a lot of times people just think about the answer.
21:11And what we would say is the question
21:13is every bit as important.
21:14John Dewey, the famous American educational reformer said,
21:17"A problem well put is half solved."
21:20And so a lot of the efforts that we spend in the design practice
21:23and that you might spend if you're
21:25doing finance or HR or product development or marketing
21:28or content strategy, a lot of your time
21:31is actually spent framing a problem worth
21:33solving before you ever even undertake the tools to think
21:36about how you'd solve it.
21:37The goal ultimately is to get this high degree of alignment
21:41where you have a high degree of confidence
21:43that the problem that you've identified
21:46and the solution you've imagined overlap.
21:48And everybody's goal is that these things
21:52would overlap perfectly.
21:53It rarely happens that way in the beginning.
21:56More often than not, there's kind of a misfit.
21:58And there's not quite the right way to think about it.
22:04And so teams that get good at design
22:06are constantly assessing both of these things--
22:10the problem that they've articulated
22:11and the solutions they've imagined--
22:13and they're assessing their fit.
22:15And the way they assess their fit is by being clear about not
22:22only what they're working on-- meaning right now we focused
22:25on the problem or we focused on the solution--
22:26but also how they're working--
22:29meaning are we are we generating options
22:31or are we making decisions.
22:33So if you think about those that 2 by 2,
22:36there are four discrete buckets that we
22:39could draw from at any time to help us think about how
22:41we might advance our thinking.
22:43And when we talk about process now,
22:45a lot of times we talk in terms of these buckets
22:47because it's a little bit more useful,
22:48it's a little bit less prescriptive,
22:50it's a little bit less sequential.
22:52And it helps us capture-- the goal is for any team
22:56to be able to be fluent about what kind of activity
23:00do I need to undertake right now to continue to advance
23:03my learning about the problem we're trying to solve
23:05or the way that we're trying to solve it.
23:07And so ultimately, we aren't looking
23:09for robots or automatons who can perfectly
23:12recite chapter and verse on the correct sequence of events, so
23:16much as individuals who have a fluency and a confidence
23:19and a capability around self navigating.
23:22What am I working on right now?
23:24How should I be working?
23:26And what tools would be appropriate
23:28for me to draw upon next?
23:29That's how we like to think about process here.
23:32With that, I'll stop, and maybe, Perry,
23:33have you seen a couple of questions
23:35that we want to dive into?
23:36PERRY KLEBAHN: Absolutely, so Rick White,
23:40in the middle of all this, made a great comment,
23:43and I wanted to go back to it.
23:45So if yours are numbered, it's number 33.
23:48But it's a great comment, Jeremy,
23:50that sort of punctuates something you've been saying.
23:54And I think he wrote it better than you said it.
23:57I've just got to call it out.
23:59There you go.
23:59JEREMY UTLEY: Love it.
24:00Love it.
24:00PERRY KLEBAHN: He said, "Businesses
24:03seem to keep us focused on the product, parentheses, "output".
24:08It seems like you are saying the creative process
24:11needs more inputs."
24:13And I would say, I wish that we had like put that
24:18at the beginning almost like a tenet for designers,
24:22which I very much agree is you're mindful of inputs.
24:25So in the story about Bill, he was mindful about inputs.
24:28He was mindful about going out and getting more content.
24:32He was sort of able to say, if I think about treadmills
24:36or think about the next project I'm going to work on,
24:38have I spent some time in a gym and just observed.
24:43Do I have some ideas about how people are feeling
24:46on some of the-- and he may have gone there on a day
24:49when he noticed somebody on the stationary bicycle.
24:52It would be a different story about a stationary bicycle.
24:55But he was mindful, I need some input.
24:59And as an individual, I know him to be that way now.
25:02He's mindful about his inputs and mindful about them
25:04by spending time.
25:05You know, actually one of the components of the class
25:08is about daily practice, and about techniques for you
25:13as an individual to build being mindful about inputs
25:16into your practice.
25:18But designers are seeking inputs to frame up
25:22interesting new questions.
25:26But Bill found a really interesting problem
25:30because he was mindful of inputs.
25:32And then later on when he said, hey, you
25:34know what my boss needs some other input
25:37to this project, which is some data, some information
25:40from testing to see what happens.
25:43And then there was a question I wanted
25:44to sort of tie-in with this which was fascinating.
25:50So Jonathan Laplante, number 38--
25:52JEREMY UTLEY: Yeah, I'm glad you pointed that one out.
25:54I was hoping for that one too.
25:56PERRY KLEBAHN: "I've tried the design thinking brainstorming
25:58method with a few business partners,
26:00and our issue is usually that we end up
26:03with a list of hundreds of ideas," which is great work,
26:07awesome.
26:09"Some of them, really good, but then
26:11we go back to the opportunity we had before the design
26:14thinking brainstorming session.
26:16Sadly, I find business partners will fall back
26:19on whatever seems like it is the easiest path--
26:23what they know and don't want to--" so it goes on.
26:26But the idea is you're selecting when you use this process.
26:31So Bill sort of, in a way we tell
26:35the magical story of persevering and making it through that
26:37and getting to a very interesting outcome.
26:42What I love, Jonathan, is the honesty.
26:43So thank you for that comment.
26:46One thing that's hard is so many of the problems we face--
26:51and I'm sure all of you face in your personal life
26:53and your professional life--
26:56sort of the problem presupposes this path.
27:00And I think we come in and we say,
27:02oh, design thinking, wander around,
27:04and look at these things, and dream up a new problem.
27:06And the reality is well, that's super fun.
27:10And we did that.
27:11And we generated much idea.
27:12But then you come back in, and we got to get stuff done here.
27:17We're done with the design part.
27:19We've got to select something, got
27:21to move forward with something that
27:23for sure solves this problem.
27:25And we say one of the things we espouse and sort
27:28of if you think about design thinking
27:30is largely we're finding a problem
27:33and then we're solving that problem--
27:36there are two halves of the diagram or, on the screen
27:39right now, the two halves of what's happening there--
27:42we would say on the product side, on the production side,
27:48we espouse really, really rapid prototyping techniques.
27:51So taking an attitude of how can I
27:54spend just a little bit longer or even shorten--
27:58if you're coming up with hundreds of ideas--
27:59hundreds of ideas, Jonathan, I would
28:01say shorten your brainstorming time and lead time right then
28:05and there to build some of the ideas,
28:07to make some really rough prototypes,
28:08to keep alive some of the wilder ideas.
28:12And say, we're going to suspend this sort of decision making,
28:16and we're just going to build out a couple of these
28:18and make them real.
28:19And we teach these very, very fast
28:23and simple low resolution prototyping techniques.
28:26And that's a fabulous skill to go through life with-- is how
28:30do I build a quick prototype.
28:32This is something Robin who-- somebody was asking what was
28:35the name of the person--
28:36Robin's been amazing in building the content of the programs.
28:39That's been the approach we've taken to building the courses--
28:42is how do we do something really, really quick,
28:44to Jeremy's point.
28:45Put it up on YouTube, get some feedback,
28:47and then do another one that's completely different.
28:49And that's the way we approach this.
28:51The question I would be asking, Jonathan,
28:52is how do I do 10 prototypes and do it so quickly and so
28:58efficiently that we can do that in minutes
29:01and get some concepts to be real,
29:03so we can actually have some data to evaluate.
29:05Because I think the thing that's missing
29:07is you can select an idea from that list that's
29:10doable for the business.
29:12But if you had a chance to compare it
29:15to some of the other ideas a little bit as you went further,
29:18you might have some data to move forward with.
29:22JEREMY UTLEY: Yeah, the other thing
29:23I would say there, just on that question, Jonathan, is if you
29:28don't have the opportunity to--
29:31if you don't have the opportunity to create something
29:33in the middle of the interaction,
29:36then another great thing you can do
29:38is you can at least schedule time
29:40for creating something later.
29:42We call that writing a love note to your future self.
29:44Because a lot of times you realize we've got potential
29:47here and we're out of time.
29:49We're about to rush to other meetings.
29:51If there's no ownership, and there's
29:53no sense of when the follow up is,
29:56then there's not going to be a new conversation
29:59unless there's new information.
30:00And a lot of times teams tend to take these decisions down
30:04the road or like, you said, just default to what we already
30:07decided we wanted to do.
30:08And the only way to change that is if someone--
30:12at Amazon they call them single-threaded ownership
30:14or single-threaded leaders--
30:16someone takes responsibility for it.
30:18So it's a great tactic is as a leader say,
30:21who's going to take this and run with this in the next week.
30:23When we meet next week, what are we asking about?
30:26Are we asking about click through rates, open rates?
30:30What do we want to know about, and then commission someone
30:34to actually create that data.
30:35And then the other thing they'd say
30:37is what are they going to stop doing?
30:40You can't give somebody something new without also
30:42kind of drawing back some level of responsibility.
30:45So which two or three standing meetings
30:47do they not need to attend in the next week
30:49so that they can create that data?
30:51A lot of times it's actually-- it's almost like--
30:54I worked in India for a while.
30:56And there's what's known in India as the last mile problem.
30:59It's really difficult to penetrate to the last mile
31:02in rural areas.
31:03And that's where the majority of the population is.
31:06This is a last mile problem when it comes
31:07to operationalizing innovation.
31:10Ownership, what's the next step, what's the outcome.
31:13And a lot of times with nebulous new ideas
31:17it's kind of nobody's job.
31:19And if you allow it to be nobody's job leaving a meeting,
31:22you shouldn't be surprised that nobody does anything, right.
31:24So to flip that script you have to actually assign the work.
31:28And go with enthusiasm.
31:31Whose stoked on it?
31:32Who really wants to see?
31:33Who really wants to explore?
31:35Great, you're going to own it, and we're
31:37so excited to see the data next week in our next team meeting.
31:41PERRY KLEBAHN: Yeah, the other one-- so there's
31:43a bunch in here that follow up.
31:44So, Ray, a quick question that I think
31:47follows up on that, "What method do you suggest
31:49to sort out a lot of ideas?"
31:52So the practical thing we actually teach
31:54is being mindful about selection process.
31:58So as you move from ideation-- you're
31:59generating lots and lots of ideas,
32:01meaning you've found that emotional insight as Bill did.
32:06He framed up a unique challenge.
32:08How do I make people not fearful of their experience
32:12on exercise equipment?
32:14He generated a lot of ideas.
32:15Then you might select.
32:17You might come up with more interesting selection criteria.
32:20You know, recently another associate
32:23of ours, Dr. Katherine Segovia, who
32:26we teach with a lot, who's actually in the program here.
32:29She runs the practice component.
32:32We've been working with this medical company.
32:34And we've been talking to them a lot.
32:37They're generating all kinds of new ideas about this really
32:40interesting medical product.
32:42I can't go into details on it, because it's
32:44all sort of super secret.
32:46And we've talked a lot about this topic
32:48of how do you select ideas.
32:50One selection criteria, if we want
32:52to go back and talk about Rick and Jonathan a little bit,
32:56you might just default to a selection criteria what's
32:59within our budget, what can we do.
33:01We've talked about being more mindful of selecting ideas,
33:03what could dazzle the customer?
33:06What could make the--
33:08in Bill's case-- what would make the customer
33:11feel incredibly safe?
33:12What would make the customer feel
33:14like they could start immediately
33:16on this exercise device?
33:17Those might be some selection criteria to sort through ideas.
33:22And there's no exact selection criteria.
33:26What Jeremy I do a lot in classes is we
33:29might take a group of ideas and select with one selection
33:32criteria.
33:33We might select with what do we think
33:37we could do on a tight budget.
33:39Great, there are a couple of ideas that come to mind.
33:41Then we might take a different color dot or a different color
33:45post-it and sort of put tabs on other ones we might select.
33:48Which one would most likely delight the customer?
33:52Which one would actually deliver a unique experience
33:55versus our competitors?
33:56But the point is we're slicing and dicing
33:59ideas with multiple selection criteria.
34:02And I think too often we move--
34:03as these folks talked about in those early questions--
34:07with a singular one.
34:09Like we've got to have a list of 1 to 100, this is the best,
34:12this is what we're going to start with.
34:14And what we espouse is mix it up.
34:15Try different selection criteria.
34:17And it's almost like you get a mosaic.
34:21Sometimes it looks like a heatmap where
34:22we're selecting with so many different criteria,
34:24and you've got all these different colors that
34:26mean different things on a group of post-its,
34:28that you can actually sort of see potentially
34:31multiple aspects of solutions.
34:33And come up with a--
34:35this is maybe something we can talk about in another question
34:39as well, Jeremy, is this idea of building a portfolio.
34:43Then I think another thing designers
34:46do is they think about having a portfolio of solutions.
34:50Not going to that single solution early on, but saying,
34:54how would I build a group of solutions, how about I select
34:57a bunch of different ideas based on different selection
34:59criteria.
35:00It leaves my options open, and allows
35:02me to have different prototypes out there
35:05generating comparative data and helping me see the path forward
35:10out of vagueness to clarity.
35:12And that's what we always espouse.
35:15We have a class called D leadership.
35:17And I think at different times the teams are working
35:20on two or three problem statements each
35:23with two or three prototypes.
35:26It's a lot of work and a lot of confusion sometimes,
35:29and it gives them a lot of clarity
35:31as to a direction forward if you will--
35:33this idea of building multiple solutions.
35:35And the same thing with having multiple selection criteria.
35:38JEREMY UTLEY: I wanted to go to Ava Dubrova's--
35:42I hope I'm saying that right, Ava--
35:44question or comment.
35:46She said, "Customers don't know what they want.
35:48You can go ahead and ask them."
35:49Right, as Henry Ford said, "If I asked my customers
35:52what they wanted, they would have said a faster horse."
35:54She uses these examples do you need Amazon Prime?
35:57Do you need Facebook?
35:58Do you need Airbnb?
35:59So leaving them to come up with their needs based
36:01on the problems they have doesn't
36:03seem like the most efficient approach.
36:05Ava if whatever you're doing for your employment
36:07doesn't work out, please come and join our team at Stanford.
36:10Because we couldn't agree more.
36:14Human centered design is not customer led design.
36:19It's not taking instructions from the customer, far from it.
36:22And you have to be careful to craft experiments, really,
36:27is what we would say.
36:28It's an experimental mindset that give you
36:30a highly credible data.
36:32And in another one of our sessions--
36:33you may have seen this if you've seen many of our webinars--
36:36but it's worth just repeating very briefly--
36:39just taking this as a case study.
36:42January, 2016, the executive team
36:45of Westfield Mall in downtown San Francisco
36:48is having a emergency meeting because tenants
36:51on their fourth floor are moving out of the fourth floor.
36:54Rents are falling.
36:56And they don't understand what to do.
36:58They've got a problem with foot traffic.
37:01Tenants keep saying not enough people are coming up here.
37:03And despite the beautiful frescoes and panoramic views
37:06of the city, it's not enough to drive foot traffic
37:09to the fourth floor and actually forestall the plummet of rent.
37:13And so they've got a crisis on their hands.
37:15They had a quick brainstorm.
37:17One of the ideas that came out of the brainstorm
37:19was we should put a beer garden on the fourth floor.
37:22Wouldn't that be amazing?
37:24Think about startup founders coming up like Greek gods
37:26onto Mount Olympus and drinking ambrosia.
37:29It'd be wonderful.
37:30So thankfully, they thought we should at least ask people
37:35if they like this idea.
37:37They went down to the lobby, to the first floor,
37:40to the food court, if we built a beer
37:42garden on the fourth floor, gorgeous views, would you come?
37:44Something like 85% people said yes.
37:48And so, Ava, to your chagrin I'm sure,
37:51they spent quite a bit of money to build out this beer garden.
37:55And it won't surprise you I know, Ava,
37:57to realize that months later it was a colossal mishap.
38:02They hardly attracted any more foot traffic
38:05to the fourth floor.
38:06Rents continued to fall.
38:08Tenants continued to move out.
38:10And they were left scratching their heads saying,
38:13what did we do wrong, right.
38:15We brainstormed.
38:16We came up with ideas.
38:17We asked people what they wanted.
38:19And they brought us in to be a part of that post-mortem,
38:22so to speak.
38:23And one of the things that became clear
38:24is they had this great data, right.
38:27They talked to 1,000 people, 850 of them
38:29said yes, if you build it we'll come.
38:31And what we challenged them on was it may be data,
38:34but not all data is created equal.
38:36And you ask people what they like--
38:40I mean, I've been the puppy dog intern before myself saying,
38:44mister, would you sign up for a magazine.
38:46Put me down for a nickel, buddy.
38:49And people say yes, but it's not really an indication
38:51of what they'll do.
38:52And we worked with the team as they
38:54tried to solve the problem in the future saying,
38:57how do we create environments and experiences
39:00and offers that yield more highly credible data.
39:04And one of the simplest ideas that came out
39:05of this discussion, you can hire an hourly worker,
39:10put them at the top of the fourth floor escalator
39:12outside of the elevator bank, put a bunch of curtains
39:15up, right, not do any of the actual remodeling work
39:19or renovation work, give the intern
39:21a pitcher of beer and a cactus so it's a beer garden
39:25technically, and then put signs all over the mall saying
39:28visit our beer garden on the fourth floor.
39:30It's like anytime somebody comes up, intern, pour them a beer.
39:34Great, it's free.
39:35Where's the garden?
39:36Well, we're still working on it, but we're
39:37so glad you're here, right.
39:39Really quickly-- the intern with his third hand
39:41or her third hand is just kind of clicking how many people are
39:44coming up-- really quickly they'd
39:46realize that that value proposition wasn't driving foot
39:48traffic.
39:49And the big question is when people become aware
39:51of an opportunity, do they hit the fourth floor button
39:53on the elevator?
39:55And that's what they should have been measuring.
39:57And because they said, if we did it would you come,
40:00they gave people an opportunity to lie to them.
40:03Customers will lie to you.
40:04Not because they're malicious, but because one, they
40:07can't imagine the truth and two, they
40:09didn't want to tell the poor puppy dog
40:11intern with a clipboard no.
40:13It just doesn't feel good, right.
40:14So you have to design interactions
40:18that give you more highly credible data than survey
40:21information.
40:21So all that say, I just wanted to second
40:24what Dr. Ava Dubrova, professor emeritus mentioned,
40:29don't ask people what they want.
40:30We totally agree.
40:34PERRY KLEBAHN: And then you've also
40:35answered I think a couple other questions, Jeremy,
40:37somebody asked.
40:38"Could you give it an example of design thinking
40:40that doesn't involve engineering?"
40:44I think it was Jessica and then-- which is great.
40:48So now you've given an example that involves beer drinking.
40:51And I'd say somebody else asked, I think it was Valerie.
40:55One of your questions about--
40:58do you have to use this for a product?
41:00And can you use it for a process?
41:02And absolutely, you can use it for a process.
41:05I think that sometimes those examples--
41:07we pick something that's like, oh this is clever.
41:09And a product tends to go, and we can tell a quick story,
41:13and there's an output, and there's
41:14a thing that it all goes into.
41:17Process, we have amazing alumni stories.
41:20I remember one that comes to mind
41:22was an executive for one of our programs in design thinking
41:25that went back to American Express
41:29and redesigned the entire process for helping
41:32folks who get stuck in a big weather event.
41:36He noticed that, hey, one of the things that happens
41:38is all of our processes sort of break down in these big events,
41:41like the recent one Hurricane Ida.
41:43People are delayed, stuck in airports.
41:45We don't have new solutions.
41:47And there's different techniques for it.
41:50We espouse a lot of improvisational activities.
41:54So if we're thinking about a product--
41:56Valerie, you and I are thinking about,
41:58hey, we have a different idea for a process.
42:00What if somebody called in and then they got this,
42:02and then this happened?
42:03We might act it out.
42:04I might act like the customer, and you
42:07might act like the process.
42:08Sounds weird, but I come in and say, hey, I'm Perry.
42:11I'm stuck in the airport.
42:12And then you would respond.
42:13You'd respond.
42:14You know, we'd run through a scenario together.
42:17That would be one prototype.
42:19Then we try a different one.
42:20And we might even do that with then bringing
42:22in an actual outside user.
42:25And act as if it exists, and run somebody through it
42:29with the minimum effort to sort of build anything.
42:33And a lot of times this results in sort
42:35of multiple flow charts.
42:37So we might have a flow chart of one process
42:39and a flow chart of another and a flow chart of another.
42:41And we would sort of be able to compare which ones are faster,
42:44which ones result in outcomes that are favorable,
42:49which ones create new questions.
42:50Yeah, we could again sort of look at those
42:52and evaluate them.
42:54But absolutely, process is a largely--
42:59actually if I think about, so many of the student projects
43:01now we deal with, process is becoming much more
43:04actually what we use it for.
43:06If I think about many, many of the projects
43:09going on in classes at Stanford.
43:15JEREMY UTLEY: I'm just trying to answer a bunch of questions
43:19as much as I can in the chat here.
43:21Looks like one link we shared at one point was broken.
43:25I'm trying to go in and tell people that it's fixed.
43:28PERRY KLEBAHN: I don't recall the questions.
43:30Somebody else was asking a little bit
43:32about how to get teams to do this
43:35and how do you approach teams.
43:37And I would say one of the things--
43:39I'm scanning for the person's name
43:41as I look somewhere else here.
43:43But anyway, so if you could find,
43:47Jeremy, it was earlier on.
43:49But in terms of application in teams,
43:50I think one of the big ideas with David Kelley
43:55and starting the design school is
43:59that students going through our programs
44:03have a consistent approach.
44:05And I think the biggest thing to bringing this
44:07into an organization is we see a lot of times teams
44:12have trouble when one person's ideating while the next person
44:15has built a prototype.
44:17Or somebody is trying to make a decision
44:19and converge while the other person, to Jeremy's point,
44:21is diverging and coming up with new ideas.
44:23And I think teaching a consistent process to teams,
44:27if there's any sort of amazing insight
44:31to what the d.school has done at Stanford
44:33is it's given language to students
44:35to have consistent process.
44:38And it's even a couple of students
44:41even commenting here on the questions.
44:46But I think they could comment as well if you ever
44:49talk to them.
44:49It's like, it's really cool to have
44:51a consistent understanding.
44:52Because Chris, for example, is a student
44:54on there is asked a question, he comes
44:56to a session on Wednesday mornings for this class we do.
45:01And he might be talking to an MBA
45:03student or a different student or something,
45:05but they have a consistent understanding of an approach
45:07and consistent language around it.
45:09So they can even comment on each other's work and dive
45:11in and help each other.
45:13And for teams working, that consistent understanding
45:17of a process is amazingly helpful.
45:20Particularly, think about the kind of work we're working on.
45:22It's uncertain work.
45:24Design is uncertain work.
45:26So in a way it amplifies a lot of emotion.
45:30It amplifies a lot of the challenges
45:32with working with teams.
45:34And consistency of understanding-- we're doing,
45:36we're ideating right now, we're generating ideas,
45:39we'll make a decision at the end of that,
45:41we'll then prototype and test, we'll then
45:43evaluate the data from testing.
45:45It gives teams the ability to work effectively
45:50with a consistent approach to problem solving.
45:52And if there's one sort of tenant with this is we
45:56have seen it really, really effective
45:58if a team has a consistent approach to a problem solving
46:01technique.
46:05JEREMY UTLEY: We have time for more questions do you think,
46:08Perry?
46:08Or should we try to wrap?
46:09Or what do you think?
46:11PERRY KLEBAHN: I'm going to push these--
46:12I just wanted to call up.
46:13We had two folks that ask questions that we
46:16wanted to definitely cover.
46:19Marty-- these are people that submitted early questions.
46:23Marty, I thought this question was
46:25great about a water utilities.
46:29She's in water utilities, and the question
46:32was, "How could I develop a way for people
46:35to use data collaboratively with the goal for them
46:38to adopt and embrace a new way to discontinue
46:41the old practice?"
46:42So she's trying to design.
46:44I take this and I say, wow, Marty.
46:46That's such an interesting problem.
46:48And I'm glad because it follows on the heels of that answer,
46:51like hey, design thinking can be used for process.
46:54This is a process.
46:56And I think what's interesting is
46:58you should approach this as do some of the work
47:01that David did.
47:02I would say design thinking 101 is go out and ask your peers.
47:06Ask them what kind of challenges they're
47:08having getting to decisions in the organization.
47:12What kind of challenges they're having with people's
47:14understanding of data.
47:15What kind of challenges they're having.
47:16How they're feeling about results.
47:18You'll gain some insights, and then frame up your effort,
47:22I think, is to design a new process inside of the company.
47:26So a great example, the sort of a more advanced example,
47:28which I love we're covering.
47:30Use the input from emotion, frame up a different challenge,
47:34and then actively try.
47:35Try running a meeting differently.
47:37Jeremy had mentioned this that a lot of times some of the output
47:40we get is, how do I run this meeting differently.
47:42And that meeting is a chance to design.
47:44And it's a thing that can be designed just
47:47like the treadmill device.
47:49So approach it as how do I gather more input.
47:53You know, I can tell the frustration,
47:56I want to change this old practice.
47:58Well, gather input from employees,
48:00understand their emotional needs,
48:01understand the challenges they're
48:02having, build some problems statements around that,
48:05and then try some prototyping.
48:08And then the other one I wanted to cover--
48:10do you want to cover this one, Jeremy,
48:11such an interesting talk.
48:13JEREMY UTLEY: Go right ahead.
48:15PERRY KLEBAHN: OK, Nare or Nare from Glendale, this
48:19is an interesting product.
48:20I could use it for my COVID times.
48:22It's a sensorized shoe insole that measures your weight.
48:27So Jeremy, at different times of COVID--
48:29let's be honest, Jeremy, we've had some problems
48:31with donuts, both of us at different times.
48:33JEREMY UTLEY: Donut, I've had a few donut
48:35excursions, that's true.
48:36PERRY KLEBAHN: Yeah, yeah, so we want
48:39to provide one stress free metric which
48:41will provide happiness and holistic feedback on how
48:44to increase activity and improve wellness.
48:47Should it be binary?
48:49Am I doing good or not?
48:50Or should it be a more detailed report with all of the metrics?
48:55So I have no idea.
48:59And I think you're asking this because it's the instinct
49:01to have no idea.
49:03And the answer is this would be a fabulous thing,
49:06the previous project as well, as fabulous projects for design
49:10thinking.
49:11I think it'd be so interesting to understand not about
49:15the metric, Nare, that's not-- if you focus, focus, focus,
49:19what's the metric, what's the metric--
49:20but I think what's so interesting is
49:22what do people want to know about their health.
49:25I mean Perry's joking about donuts,
49:26but there's actually something I would love to interview on this
49:30and be interviewed about what are my needs.
49:32What are my concerns about my health on a daily basis?
49:34Particularly in the world we're living in now
49:36where I'm standing in the same square meter
49:39here for the whole day.
49:41How am I feeling about my health?
49:43What are some potential things?
49:47Ask a question, tell me about the last time
49:49you thought about your health while you're
49:51standing in front of a screen, and how do you address it?
49:54Tell me that story.
49:55You could do all kinds of really fun interviews
49:58and get some insights and get some challenges.
50:01And then potentially deliver different types of information
50:05prototypes-- so different types of answers
50:07on metrics and information-- to these individuals.
50:10And get a sense of how they react to them.
50:12And I wouldn't have approached this
50:14as the-- one thing in the question I
50:15think is interesting to call out is looking for an answer.
50:19I think, early on I would look for how do I
50:21create a portfolio of potential dashboards and information.
50:25How do I create dozens that I could show users?
50:28That might be in a mindset to take on
50:30at the very beginning, that I'm not
50:31going to get to that answer.
50:33I'm going to get to a bunch of different potential creative
50:36answers.
50:37Put them in front of users, and I'm going to continue to learn,
50:40and eventually get to a subset that we
50:42want to put out as product.
50:44So then, Jeremy, I think we have just a couple
50:46of minutes to cover that last bit of content.
50:50JEREMY UTLEY: Yeah, I would say the one thing that I
50:52would mention just before--
50:54we've got a couple of slides we want to wrap with.
50:56But one thing that I wanted to mention
50:58it's very important to realize conventional wisdom
51:02is often right and sometimes wrong.
51:05And in many organizations, like you saw it with Ray,
51:08there is a conventional paradigm.
51:10You know 1905 is known as the miracle year.
51:14I don't know if you're aware of this,
51:15but it's when Einstein wrote his groundbreaking
51:18works on relativity.
51:21What's interesting is that in 1900, just five years earlier,
51:26Lord Kelvin had reported to the British Association
51:29for the Advancement of Science there is nothing new to be
51:32discovered in physics now, all that remains
51:35is more and more precise measurement.
51:37And he was the world authority in physics, right.
51:40Which is to say what?
51:42Even the experts, even world renowned experts
51:45are sometimes wrong.
51:47And it takes a little bit of naivete,
51:49it takes a little bit of fresh perspective,
51:51it takes a bit of a beginner's mindset
51:54to challenge convention.
51:57And you shouldn't expect to challenge convention and not
52:00experience resistance.
52:02There's a reason it's convention.
52:03Conventional wisdom is usually right.
52:05But challenging it oftentimes leads
52:07to unexpected breakthroughs.
52:09We've seen it across industries from arts to science
52:14to law, even.
52:16Challenging conventions is a really great way to do it.
52:19But don't expect to be resistance free path.
52:22There will be resistance there.
52:24Just as we wrap, one of the things hopefully
52:26that you identified in all of our answers to these questions
52:31is we don't have the answers.
52:33We are not answer guys.
52:35We are approach guys.
52:37And design thinking itself isn't an answer.
52:39It's an approach.
52:40And what we would say is be thoughtful about your approach.
52:44And we can coach individuals on the approach, but I love--
52:47like Nare's question--
52:49who knows if it should be binary, right.
52:51But what Perry basically advised her is define the outcome
52:55variable, meaning what are you hoping somebody
52:57does, check back again tomorrow, share on social media--
53:01whatever it is, right-- define the outcome variable.
53:04And then do both of those things,
53:05and see which one impacts your outcome variable
53:07in the most desirable way.
53:09Wow, when I make it binary all of a sudden people's engagement
53:12goes through the roof, right.
53:14Or when I give a detailed report it does, right.
53:16But we're advocating an approach.
53:19And the approach that we advocate
53:21is one where we're mindful of the questions that
53:24are driving our action.
53:25A lot of people talk about the miracle year,
53:28it's called the miracle year.
53:31But the-- I'm trying to watch chat and talk at the same time.
53:34I wouldn't recommend it.
53:36I'm like a cow that has multiple stomachs, except with my brain.
53:42And I'm randomly thinking of metaphors while doing this.
53:44My point is design thinking isn't only action.
53:49A lot of people think about design thinking,
53:51they hear a bias towards action.
53:52And it could just be this frivolous random flurry
53:56of activity.
53:57What we advocate is thoughtful, deliberate action,
54:01where we know we're not going to know the answer until we act,
54:04so action is a must.
54:06But what action we take is informed by thoughtful inquiry.
54:09And we call it inquiry driven design.
54:12And I'll just finish by saying, if you think
54:14about what's the question, how do I
54:18know which bucket to draw from.
54:20You've got to be able to answer a couple of questions.
54:23One is what's our big unknown.
54:25And I've got this here.
54:26Unfortunately ON24-- someone mentioned
54:29ON24 need to be redesigned.
54:30That's funny.
54:32But it's a simple wheel where we can say, OK,
54:34what's my big unknown.
54:36Do I not know the problem I'm trying to solve?
54:38OK, good.
54:39Or do I not know the answer to the problem
54:43I've identified, right.
54:44So what's our big unknown, and then what kind of thinking
54:47is going to help us make progress.
54:50So once I say, OK, I'm on the blue, right.
54:52Now, do I need to be making decisions
54:56or do I need to be generating options?
54:59And if I say I need to be making decisions, great.
55:01Then where do I need to be drawing tools from?
55:04Well, I should probably be drawing tools
55:06from that converge on the solution bucket.
55:09Oh, well I know these several tools to converge on solutions.
55:13Here's what's kind of behind those sliders there--
55:16are these questions basically.
55:17But when we talk about the process of design,
55:21we're not just talking about action.
55:24And we're not just talking about a sequence
55:26or a prescription or a recipe.
55:28We're talking about a thoughtful inquiry led approach
55:32to taking action in order to address uncertainty,
55:35both on the solutions that we're imagining side
55:38and also on the problems we are attempting to solve side.
55:42So this is how we think about process.
55:45Hopefully, this has been a demystifying experience
55:47for you.
55:48Our goal is to make these tools and these mindsets
55:51accessible to somebody in product development
55:56and somebody in HR and somebody in accounting, wherever
55:59it is we believe that we can bring more rigor,
56:01more fun, and better problem solving to whatever role
56:06you might play in your organization, whatever industry
56:08your organization might be in.
56:10And we hope the tools we've shared today
56:12just whet your appetite a little bit.
56:14There's no way to go in deeply into the tools,
56:16but that's what the online programs are for.
56:19There's an amazing set of resources and tools
56:22in these programs.
56:23And we're excited to see how you use them,
56:24not only to impact your work, but also to change your life
56:27and to change the world.
56:28We wish you all the best of luck.
56:31PERRY KLEBAHN: And, Jeremy, in your rap
56:32you didn't lose anybody.
56:33682 of you are still here.
56:38So anyway awesome, and we mean what we say.
56:40We are passionate about these tools being out there
56:43and you using them.
56:44And we love hearing from you with hard questions
56:47or these amazing-- some people are sharing,
56:51if you can see all the questions,
56:53sharing how they've used some of these tools.
56:55And we just find that fascinating,
56:57and it keeps us hard at work.
56:58So thank you, and thank all of you for the amazing questions.
57:03We love it.
57:03I wish we could get to all of them.
57:05We've done our best, but thank you so much.
57:09Robyn: Perry and Jeremy, that was great.
57:10And everyone who's here with us today,
57:12the engagement was just so fabulous.
57:16It really felt like a personal one on one conversation.
57:20And I just really love that dynamic.
57:22Also, when you guys submit questions or expand
57:25on something, that gives us great insight
57:27about where we need to go next so the content
57:29that we can produce and answer these.
57:34So that was really helpful.
57:35And thanks so much for joining us today.
57:38And we're going to sign off from Stanford.
57:40Thanks, Perry.
57:41Thanks, Jeremy.
57:42PERRY KLEBAHN: Thank you.
57:43JEREMY UTLEY: Thank you.
57:44Have a great day, everyone.
57:45Robyn: Bye, everybody.