Full transcript
0:07today in our discussion of minority
0:11groups we have with us
0:15two guests one is Minister Malcolm X
0:20Shabazz one of the top leaders of the
0:25Nation of Islam or the so-called black
0:28Muslims and we also have mr. Herman
0:32Blake one of the teaching assistants in
0:35the course we will discuss today some of
0:41the the goals and some of the strategies
0:44of the Nation of Islam and I wonder if
0:48mr. Blake might started off by asking
0:51mr. Shabazz a question a minister
0:54Malcolm the thing that I thought might
0:56be good for starting it off is to talk
0:59about one of the most pervasive beliefs
1:01in the general society about the Nation
1:04of Islam and that is that it is an
1:06organization dedicated to the use of
1:08violent means to attain its goals the
1:13question I have is how true is this and
1:18why do you think it persists in society
1:21well the Muslims accepted the religion
1:27of Islam and follow their religious
1:29guidance of the Honorable Elijah
1:30Muhammad have never bombed any churches
1:36have never murdered any little girls as
1:39was done in Birmingham they have never
1:42lynched anybody have never at any time
1:46been guilty of initiating any aggressive
1:49acts of violence during the entire 33
1:54years or more that the Honorable Elijah
1:57Muhammad has been teaching us the charge
2:02of violence against us actually stems
2:04from the guilt complex that exists in
2:08the conscious and subconscious minds of
2:10most white people in this country they
2:13know that they've been violent in their
2:17brutality against Negroes
2:20and they feel that someday the Negro is
2:23going to wake up and try and do unto
2:27them as they have done unto do unto the
2:30whites as the whites have done unto us
2:32we are a violent group we do we are
2:37taught by the Honorable Elijah Muhammad
2:40to be to obey the law to respect
2:43everyone who respects us we're taught to
2:46display courtesy to be polite but we're
2:49also taught that at any time anyone in
2:52any way inflicts or seeks to inflict
2:57violence upon us we are within our
3:00religious rights to retaliate in
3:03self-defense to the maximum degree of
3:07our ability we never initiate any
3:10violence upon anyone but if anyone
3:12attacks us we reserve the right to
3:14defend ourselves
3:15so to accuse us of being violence is
3:18like accusing a man who is being lynched
3:23who is being hung on a tree simply
3:27because he struggles vigorously against
3:29his Lynch ur the victim is accused of
3:33violence but they'll ensure is never
3:35accused of violence and I only point
3:37this out because the various racists
3:41groups that are set up in this country
3:45by whites and who have actually
3:48practiced violence against Blacks for
3:50four hundred years are never associated
3:54or identified or made synonymous with
3:56the term violence but quite speak of
3:59Muslims almost synonymously with
4:01violence whenever Muslims are mentioned
4:04by them
4:04violence is broader but not but it's not
4:08connected with any other group this is a
4:10sort of a propaganda tactic or what I
4:13would call psychological warfare to
4:17in some way make the image of the
4:20Muslims in this country being a violent
4:23image rather than a religious image I'd
4:27like to ask a question in that regard
4:28what's interesting is that members of
4:34the Nation of Islam have not used
4:37violence even when black Americans were
4:41attacked how do you account for this
4:44does this in any way contradict some of
4:48the basic premises of your movement I
4:50don't know how you mean well you
4:52maintain for example that that you will
4:55not or that you should not use violence
4:57unless you are attacked by the white man
5:00and I think we can note in the last
5:03several years certainly dozens and
5:05dozens and dozens of instances in which
5:07Negroes have been attacked killed in
5:12some instances I mean in these
5:13demonstrations and and the bombings for
5:16example recently in Birmingham where
5:17they killed four little Negro girls and
5:19what interests me is the fact is that
5:21the Nation of Islam has not done
5:23anything to retaliate I think you should
5:25be happy important thing is does your
5:30lack of action though contradict any of
5:33your basic I'll explain it you should be
5:35happy that Muslims who follow the
5:38Honorable Elijah Muhammad number one
5:40don't believe in any form of integration
5:43and who will and believe that every
5:46mention of the word integration by
5:49whites whether it be from the mouth of
5:52Kennedy on down to the mouth of the
5:55lowest raggedy-ass white liberal in the
5:58street who is beatnik like involving
6:01himself in these integration efforts if
6:04we believed in it we would integrate and
6:07we would fight anybody who got in our
6:09way
6:10no or made any effort whatsoever to stop
6:13us from integrating if we really
6:15believed that the law of the land the
6:17Supreme Court and other so-called
6:19judicial bodies were for real when they
6:24talked about integration we would
6:25integrate and knowing that the law was
6:28in any effort we made to demonstrate
6:31toward integration why we would know the
6:33law should be on our side if it's the
6:36law of the land if it is the law of the
6:39land then the demonstrators are within
6:40the law and the discriminators are
6:44against the law
6:45but to show you the hypocrisy of the law
6:47when Negroes demonstrate for integration
6:51instead of arresting the discriminators
6:54the law arrests the demonstrators so
6:57this is a foolish move on the part of
6:59Negroes and when you foolishly get
7:02yourself involved with a enemy then
7:05whatever comes upon you that's your
7:07business
7:08as Muslims we believe that separation is
7:13the best way in the only sensible way
7:15not integration and on but on the other
7:18hand when we see our people being
7:20brutalized by white bigots white racists
7:27we think that they are foolish to allow
7:30themselves to be beaten and brutalized
7:32and do nothing whatsoever to protect
7:35themselves they are foolish they're if
7:38they should have the right to defend
7:41themselves against any attack made
7:43against them by anyone if a dog is
7:46biting a black man the black man should
7:48kill the dog whether the dog is a police
7:51dog or hound dog or any kind of dog if
7:54our dog is 6 on a black man when that
7:57black man is doing nothing but trying to
7:59take advantage of what the government
8:02says it's supposed to be is then that
8:03black man should kill that dog or any
8:06two-legged dog who 6 the dog on it
8:09should other black men help that
8:11particular person who was attacked I
8:13think you'll find sir that there will
8:17come a time when black people wake up
8:19and become intellectually independent
8:24enough to think for themselves as other
8:27humans are intellectually independent
8:30enough to think for themselves then the
8:32black man will think like a black man
8:34and he will feel for other black people
8:38and this new thinking and feeling
8:41we'll cause black people to stick
8:43together and then at that point you'll
8:45have a situation where when you attack
8:48one black man you are attacking all
8:50black men and this type of black
8:54thinking will cause all black people to
8:57stick together and this type of thinking
9:00also will bring an end to the brutality
9:02inflicted upon black people by white
9:05people and it is the only thing that
9:07we're bringing into it no federal court
9:10state court or City Court we're bringing
9:13into it is something that the black man
9:15has to bring it into himself Minister
9:19Malcolm let me on the basis of your
9:22tumor remarks ask a double Kong question
9:25one is it then your assertion that the
9:30laws with respect to how Negroes are
9:33supposed to have equal opportunity and
9:35equal rights in this country are not
9:38meaningful or believed by whites and
9:42secondly what it then is your opinion
9:45and attitude toward the civil rights
9:47movement in general and particularly the
9:51Reverend Martin Luther King and his
9:52philosophy of non-violence through
9:54direct action if the white people really
10:00passed meaningful laws it would not be
10:04necessary to pass any more laws there
10:08are already enough laws on the law books
10:11to protect an American citizen you only
10:16need additional laws when you're dealing
10:19with someone who was not regarded as an
10:21American citizen but whites are so
10:24hypocritical they don't want to admit
10:26that this black man is not a citizen so
10:29they classify him as a second-class
10:31citizen too to get around making him a
10:35real citizen if he was a real citizen
10:37you'd need no more laws you need no
10:40civil rights legislation civil rights
10:43that when you have civil rights you have
10:44citizenship it's automatic white people
10:47don't need laws to protect their
10:49citizenship because they're citizens but
10:51they want the they don't want to tell us
10:53we're not sitting
10:54and at the same time they don't want to
10:57pass laws that are meaningful enough to
10:59protect us as if we were citizens and
11:01the Supreme Court desegregation decision
11:03is the best example I know that's a law
11:05from the Supreme Court ten years have
11:08gone by
11:09no no desegregated schools it hasn't
11:12been implemented beyond I think nine
11:14percent in ten years so this just shows
11:16you the hypocrisy of the American white
11:19man they talk out of both sides of them
11:21up and for this reason we who are
11:24Muslims
11:25that is who believe in the religion of
11:27Islam who believe in God we don't
11:29believe that black people will ever get
11:31any laws yet any problem with laws being
11:34passed or new persons being put in
11:37office white liberals being put in
11:39office there is nothing that the white
11:41man will ever do to bring about true
11:44since their citizenship or civil rights
11:50recognition for black people in this
11:51country nothing will they ever do they
11:54will always talk it but they won't
11:55practice it and with the Supreme Court
11:58if the n-double-a-cp can tell me that
12:00they want a desegregation decision for
12:02me ten years ago but yet the schools
12:06haven't been desegregated as I say this
12:08is a victory with no victory it's a
12:11victory that you can talk about but it's
12:13a victory you can't show me so if you
12:15represent the n-double-a-cp and you were
12:17telling me about this great victory you
12:19won for me when I look at you I have to
12:21conclude that either you have been duped
12:24yourself or else you were trying to do
12:26me and in most instance instances where
12:29the civil rights struggle is involved
12:32there is no civil rights leader can
12:34point to me one concrete gain practical
12:38gain that black people have made in the
12:41civil rights field in this country not
12:44only during the past ten years but
12:45during the past 100 years now the other
12:48part was with respect to mr. King and
12:51the nonviolent direct action well I will
12:54let Jimmy Baldwin and John killings and
12:59Lou Lomax the writers answer that
13:03speaking right after these this church
13:06was bombed
13:07in Birmingham Christian Church was
13:09bombed in Birmingham by Christians -
13:11mind you and these four little girls
13:13were murdered John killings and James
13:16Baldwin and Lomax and the Negro writers
13:18and actors had a meeting at the Town
13:20Hall in New York and killin pointed out
13:24concerning these murders of these little
13:26girls said the killings had raised
13:29doubts about the intelligence of the
13:31nonviolent of non-violence in the civil
13:34rights struggle he went on to declare
13:37that he could no longer be asked to love
13:39those who persecuted and killed Negroes
13:42he also and the writer mr. handler who
13:46whose describing this said that killings
13:50it was not clear concerning killers
13:52killings remarks to his audience that he
13:55was breaking with the it was clear
13:56rather to his audience that he was
13:58breaking with the doctrine of the
13:59Reverend Martin Luther King's philosophy
14:03that as Christians Negroes should love
14:05their fellow man in a truly religious
14:07sense now James Baldwin speaking on that
14:10same platform said and I was present
14:11during this entire affair asserted that
14:14the American people shared a collective
14:17guilt for the persecution of Negroes
14:19much as Germans did because of their
14:20silence during the Nazi persecution he
14:23denounced President Kennedy for what he
14:25termed Kennedy's lack of passion in the
14:28civil rights struggle
14:29mr. Baldwin said that there could no
14:31longer be a Republican Party for the
14:32Negro people as long as it listed a
14:35Barry Goldwater nor a democratic party
14:37for the Negro people with a senator
14:39eastland on its roster he asserted that
14:41the federal government acted swiftly and
14:44energetically that unless the federal
14:46government acted swiftly and
14:48energetically future slaughter would
14:50make Birmingham look like a dress
14:51rehearsal right now what do I think
14:54about Kings attitude King's right-hand
14:58man Wyatt Walker at Kings convention
15:02according to the New York Times on
15:03September the 26th said we had quote we
15:07have been duped meaning these persons
15:09involved in a civil rights struggle of
15:11which King is the symbolic leader his
15:14right-hand man says and I quote we have
15:16been duped or have duped ourselves into
15:20believing that
15:21chains have been broken when in truth we
15:23have only been chained more securely
15:25half freedom has in many instances been
15:28worse than no freedom at all why don't
15:31ask me what I think about this struggle
15:33I can tell you what they think about
15:34their struggle and they have and they
15:36are pointing out that it is becoming
15:39more difficult every day for the civil
15:42rights leaders to keep the masses of
15:44black people nonviolent and
15:47long-suffering and patient and keep them
15:50from becoming disenchanted I hope that
15:53answers your question well now there's a
15:55new party which is started on the East
15:57Coast called the freedom now party and
16:00all black organization would you comment
16:05upon this and also upon the possibility
16:08that the Nation of Islam might begin to
16:10turn some of its attention to the
16:12political arena in view of the fact that
16:14it is in the political arena that
16:17Negroes have not been able to in any way
16:19get justice as has been pointed out in
16:22your previous statement I'm not familiar
16:24with the freedom now party I'm not too
16:27familiar with politics period only that
16:29in the sense that white politicians have
16:33usually been very hypocritical where the
16:35so-called Negroes are concerned so I'm a
16:39bit disenchanted with politicians and
16:42politics the Honorable Elijah Muhammad
16:43is a religious man and his teaching is
16:46religious and his solutions are
16:47religious the freedom now party from
16:50what I understand is headed by a man
16:53named a lawyer named Conrad Lin I know
16:56him probably means well before passing
17:00an opinion on what it is he's trying to
17:01do I would like to analyze it and see
17:05who's subsidizing him see who his
17:07friends are especially who his white
17:10friends are and after a careful analysis
17:14if I could conclude that there was no
17:18white support I would be inclined to
17:21have confidence in it but if I saw him
17:23leaning too heavily upon his white
17:25liberal friends for support and I'd be
17:28suspicious of that too the Muslims in my
17:30opinion
17:31represent an all black party and the
17:35Honorable Elijah Muhammad pointed out at
17:37before 10,000 in Philadelphia on
17:40September the 29th at a rally that we
17:44were having that in 1964 the black
17:47people should band together and do
17:49something about electing selecting and
17:52electing representatives black
17:54representatives politically who have the
17:57rights in the the best interests of the
18:03black people at heart and that we should
18:05also unite together and sweep out of
18:07office all of the black political
18:08puppets who are used by the white power
18:11structure to continue white supremacy in
18:13our communities in that regard would you
18:18include congressman Dawson for example
18:21from Chicago and some of the people who
18:23represent him on the Chicago City
18:25Council in which we go in in the area of
18:28acting as a puppet I don't know what mr.
18:31Muhammad's opinion is of congressman
18:33Dawson they both live right there in the
18:35city of Chicago together I don't know
18:37what his opinion is of congressman
18:40Dawson I'm suspicious of any Negro be he
18:44politician be he clergyman or civic
18:48leader who is constantly patted on the
18:49back by quite I have a tendency to lead
18:52toward the Negro politician who is
18:55constantly condemned by the white power
18:57structure this is my thought pattern I'm
18:59giving you an insight of it you don't
19:04mention mr. Lyne and saying you'd like
19:06to know who his white friends are now
19:08I'm wondering if you didn't make a
19:10contradictory statement in Muslim turns
19:12by using white and friend in the same
19:14phrase as I say friend in quotes I say
19:17in other words if a black man cannot
19:20have a white man as a friend he may have
19:22a white man who's friendly but being
19:25friendly and being a friend I think are
19:28two different things
19:29I think there are many whites who act
19:31friendly toward Negroes of Fox X X
19:34friendly toward the land and usually the
19:38Fox is the one who ends up with the lamb
19:40chop on his plate
19:43the wolf doesn't act friendly and
19:45therefore the wolf has more difficulty
19:48in getting the lamb child in his plate
19:51I'd like to point out though that I say
19:54that because it is usually the if you
19:57study the structure of the Negro
19:58community economically politically
20:01civically psychologically and otherwise
20:03it's controlled by the white liberal who
20:06usually poses as the friend of the Negro
20:09who actually differs from the white
20:10conservative and in the same way that
20:13the Fox differs from the wolf their
20:15appetite is the same their motives are
20:18the same it's only their mannerisms and
20:21methods that differ I would agree that
20:26no doubt there's been a large number of
20:29whites who have posed as liberals and as
20:32friends in the Negro and who have time
20:34and again betrayed the Negro on the
20:37other hand I think one could point to a
20:39large number of whites who have
20:41struggled for civil rights
20:44give me more equality and have got
20:46little or nothing out of it other than
20:50quite a few bruises give me an example
20:53well the the large number of white
20:55students who have gone into the South
20:57for example working for snick and other
20:59organizations not working for smick or
21:01other organizations but working for the
21:03white political machines will benefit by
21:07the voting efforts of Negro okay I'll be
21:10more specific I would cite Herbert Hill
21:12for example as as a kind of person who
21:15has championed Negro job rights for
21:17example in New York City and elsewhere
21:20he has fought the political machine
21:22first time I met Herbert Hill personally
21:24was when they were picketing to stop the
21:27working on the Harlem Hospital in Harlem
21:30Negroes for 10 years had to fight the
21:33city to get an annex built on the Harlem
21:37hospital because in Harlem we need a
21:39hospital more so than anything else how
21:41people are sick plus we do a lot of
21:43cutting and shooting of each other
21:44though we profess to be nonviolent and
21:47Herbert Hill brought his forces out and
21:50stopped the working on that st. this is
21:54the first time I ever saw him
21:56then when work was brought to a halt on
21:58a hospital in Harlem the same Negroes
22:01tried to stop the work at the downstate
22:03medical center in Brooklyn which is
22:05predominantly white they were out there
22:07for three months during the summer
22:08couldn't stop anything and I never saw
22:11her but he'll out there one time now
22:13whatever something whenever it takes a
22:16stoppage of something that's going to
22:17affect the white man you find the white
22:20liberal absent but is when it involves
22:24something that primarily will affect the
22:25best interests of black people and black
22:27people only then that white liberal is
22:30President Herbert Hill is the labor
22:31secretary for the n-double-a-cp and if
22:35he was interested in black people he
22:37would prepare a black man with the type
22:39of knowledge and understanding of the
22:41labor troubles involving black people
22:43that would enable a black man to sit in
22:46the same position as secretary of labor
22:48or labor secretary Indian double-a-c-p
22:50I'm suspicious of whites who joined
22:53Negroes and always have to be in the
22:55lead who always have to be the head who
22:57always have to be at the top in Negro
22:59organizations those whites who really
23:01have the interest of blacks at heart let
23:03them give some advice to some Negroes
23:05and stand on the sidelines but don't
23:07join the organization and then get at
23:08the head of it and pose as a friend of
23:10Negroes well I I would defend his
23:16sincerity and his commitment and more
23:19than that I would say that just because
23:20a person is a Negro or a black American
23:23does not mean there's going to struggle
23:25for Negro rights or for jobs for Negroes
23:28or anything else I think that today you
23:30could point to a large number of Negro
23:33leaders who have consistently betrayed
23:34Negroes in a whole host of areas they
23:37aren't really Negro leaders these are
23:38puppets that have been put in front of
23:40the Negro community by white liberals
23:42these are parents that have been put in
23:44front of the Negro community by white
23:46liberals you can't name me a Negro later
23:49who has been Negro leader who has been
23:52bitter who has betrayed Negroes who is
23:54not who has not been endorsed sanctioned
23:57subsidized and supported by the white
24:01liberals Minister Malcolm
24:03I'd like to well I could cite one
24:05example of the congressman Dawson for
24:06example in Chicago and
24:08in Chicago a large number of liberals
24:10locate in the Hyde Park district have
24:11consistently fought Dawson and his
24:13betrayals of the Negro they've also
24:15fought some of the people who represent
24:17Dawson on the Chicago City Council the
24:19only Negro I know who is constantly for
24:21only Negro politician that I know who is
24:22constantly fought by white liberals is
24:24Adam Clayton Powell and they called him
24:27a racist because he speaks so bluntly on
24:30the race issue but I'm not as I said not
24:33too familiar with Dawson and his work
24:36let me let me return to the Nation of
24:39Islam force a minister by raising a
24:42question which struck me as a result of
24:45reading some of Baldwin's work namely
24:47the fire next time Baldwin pointed out
24:50that in Harlem for many years he had
24:51passed the street corners in the soap
24:53boxes and heard people speaking from
24:55these platforms who were known as black
24:57nationalists and nobody was listening
24:59and he said all of a sudden he realized
25:02that people were beginning to listen to
25:05the Muslim speakers on the street
25:07corners in Harlem the message
25:10essentially was the same but was that
25:14now many many people were listening to
25:16what this message was and you pointed
25:18out that the Nation of Islam has been in
25:21the picture for about 33 years what is
25:25it in your judgment that has caused this
25:28tremendous amount of support that the
25:30Nation of Islam has garnered in the
25:32Negro community in say the last 10 years
25:34when you put a seed in the soil it
25:39remains beneath the soil until the
25:41season changes and when the season
25:44change is that the seasonal change
25:47automatically brings about rather
25:49atmospheric conditions ring about a
25:51seasonal change that makes that seed
25:54come up or crop grow in its appointed
25:58time and all over this world today God
26:02himself has brought about political and
26:05changes a political atmosphere
26:08sociological social atmosphere economic
26:13atmosphere these economic conditions
26:15these political conditions and social
26:17conditions combine to bring about a
26:21raishin that is making black people in
26:24America more receptive their mind more
26:27fertile to the state of truth that the
26:31Honorable Elijah Muhammad has been
26:32planting for 30-some years and this is
26:35springing up today and causing our
26:37people to see and understand now what
26:38they couldn't see and understand before
26:40what is the nature of the situation
26:42which is making black people more
26:44receptive the well you take the in the
26:48past say 15 years how the nations have
26:52emerged Dok nations have emerged in in
26:54Africa prior to ten years ago most
26:57Negros associated identified Africa with
27:00a savage jungle length place and
27:03whenever you mentioned the word African
27:05in their minds I they could see the
27:07image of a someone running around with a
27:09spear with no language you'd say I'll go
27:12Bugaboo or Bwana or something and who'd
27:15be in a jungle running from Lions or
27:17chasing Lions but then when after the
27:21war when the United Nations were set up
27:23in New York City
27:24black people began to look at men like
27:28Tom Mboya
27:29they began to look at men like on the
27:31chroma they began to see men like
27:33Lumumba they began to see men like NASA
27:36they began to see these below ah in a
27:40sick way who could exchange
27:43intellectually with whites on an
27:45international level in a political form
27:47and hold their own this made the black
27:50people in this country realize that what
27:52the Honorable Elijah Muhammad had been
27:54teaching all the time actually had
27:56substance and they began to turn it over
27:59in their mind and see that what he was
28:01saying had more weight to it than what
28:03these other Negroes were saying and they
28:05began to identify themselves with the
28:07black world and the black struggle more
28:10closely than they identified themselves
28:12with this so-called white world let me
28:15ask you a question with respect to a
28:19statement which Sen udimm quotes as
28:22being on a bulletin board in the
28:24university of Islam in Chicago by the
28:26Honorable Elijah Muhammad according to
28:30Sen mr. Muhammad's state up you mighty
28:34race you can accomplish what you willed
28:38build your future on these foundations
28:42freedom justice and equality what is the
28:49definition of freedom justice and
28:52equality for the black man and where and
28:56when is it to be attained well take
28:59equality first the Honorable Elijah
29:01Muhammad doesn't teach us to associate
29:04equality with whites equality has
29:07nothing to do with whites we want we
29:09don't want to be equal with the white
29:11man he's not the criteria or yardstick
29:14by which equality is measured he's not
29:17in a position to tell us we are equal
29:19it's not his range it's not his to do
29:23equality we want equality we had
29:26equality before the white man was
29:28created we had that we had equality
29:30before the white man came into existence
29:32and we want equality whether the white
29:35man is on this earth or not equality
29:37means the opportunity to develop all of
29:41our dormant potential all all of our
29:44dormant capability and in in developing
29:48this dormant capability the rate and the
29:52ability to stand on this earth on some
29:54land of our own and bring about a
29:58civilization and a society and we will
30:00in which we will be completely
30:02independent complete freedom to take
30:07care of the needs to take care of the
30:10wants and the lakes and the dislikes of
30:13our people to establish our own nation
30:16our own society our own heaven our own
30:19future this is what we mean by freedom
30:21by equality and justice means as you sow
30:26so shall you reap if you do wrong you'll
30:28get wrong in return and if you do right
30:31you'll get right in return when you're
30:33in your own nation in your own land
30:35you're in a position to get justice but
30:38when you're in another man's country you
30:40know another man's land under another
30:42man's flag and under another man's
30:45government and
30:46another man's court system you have to
30:49look to that other man for justice and
30:51you'll never get it and Negroes in this
30:53country probably are authorities on that
30:55to what extent does this formulation
30:58approach that expounded by Zionists they
31:02for example many scientists Zionists
31:04maintained they could never expect
31:06justice in the Czarist courts and and
31:10the courts found in other countries in
31:11Eastern Europe and so on and they
31:13decided that would be wise to establish
31:15a separate state in Israel and in and
31:18all of the world powers got together the
31:20white world powers I should say got
31:21together and helped all of these white
31:23Jews to establish a separate state in
31:26the heart of dark-skinned people's
31:29territory and if white people can get
31:33together and let other White's help
31:36other lights to establish an independent
31:40nation right in the midst of docs in
31:43people and then we see we don't see
31:46where white people should be so much
31:48against the Honorable Elijah Muhammad
31:50solution not of a setting up an
31:52independent doc nation in a white
31:54people's property but he's asking the
31:57opportunity to set up an independent
31:59nation in our own on our own continent
32:01let us leave America and go back home
32:03among our own people on our own land and
32:06set up our own independent society but
32:08all he says is that this government
32:09which made us slaves should supply the
32:12transportation for us to get back home
32:13and give us all of the machinery and the
32:15tools necessary for us till the soil and
32:18establish our own agricultural system to
32:21feed and clothe our people our own
32:22economy and in some way become an
32:25independent people among our own people
32:26on our own continent this is intelligent
32:29and Zionists should never criticize us
32:31you say then that the United States is
32:34not the black man's country definitely
32:35no not black man's law no I American
32:39laws are not the black man's law
32:40although the laws here in America were
32:42made white by white people for the
32:44benefit of white people the Constitution
32:47was written by whites for the benefit of
32:49white it was never written for the
32:51benefit of blacks and when you read the
32:53Constitution I think in article 1
32:55section article 1 section 2 or section 1
32:58article 1 someone
32:59and it's in the Constitution it says
33:01that that classifies black people as
33:03three-fifths of a man three-fifths of a
33:06man subhuman less than a human being it
33:09relegate sus to the level of cattle hogs
33:11chickens cows a commodity that could be
33:15bought and sold at the will of the
33:17master no it was written by whites for
33:20the benefit of whites and to the
33:22detriment of blanks and when our black
33:25man stands up talking about his
33:26constitutional rights he's out of his
33:28mind
33:29I'm innocent Malcolm in our textbook
33:31which the students have read supposedly
33:35there is a statement which is a
33:37quotation from Sen and essentially that
33:39from Lincoln to the effect that the
33:46Nation of Islam does not have a great
33:48deal of support in the Negro community
33:51in this country by and large and a
33:53recent national poll of American Negroes
33:57found that leaders and rank-and-file
34:00according to their statistics supported
34:02the Reverend Martin Luther King
34:05somewhere over 90 percent whereas the
34:08support unfavorable rating that they
34:10gave Minister Muhammad was less than 20%
34:13and somewhere around forty five percent
34:16of them gave an unfavorable rating to
34:18mr. Muhammad what would your response be
34:21in terms of Baldwin's statement that
34:24this is a growing thing and the kinds of
34:28evidence that we have that there isn't
34:30much to it
34:31well that that statement I made just
34:34made concerning the Constitution is
34:35article 1 section 2 in the Constitution
34:38where it classifies us as chattel
34:40Baldwin did point out that mr. Muhammad
34:42has the only grassroot support and is
34:45the only one whose whole the following
34:47operates all functions on the mass
34:49vehicle and I think Baldwin told dr.
34:51Kenneth Clark that Martin Luther King is
34:54at the end of his rope now concerning
34:57the poll taken by Newsweek magazine I
34:59think you said that this was the leaders
35:01who said that who went with King and
35:04against mr. Mohammed around 90 percent I
35:07just told you a little while ago these
35:08leaders that they call leaders this
35:10included Lena Horne
35:12this included Dick Gregory and this
35:14included comedians comics trumpet
35:16players baseball players show me in the
35:19white community where a comedian is a
35:21white leader show me in the white
35:23community where our singer is a white
35:25leader or a dancer or a trumpet player
35:27is a white leader
35:28these aren't leaders these are puppets
35:30and clowns that have been set up over
35:33the white community and are over the
35:35black community by the white community
35:37and have been made celebrities and
35:39usually say exactly what they know that
35:42the white man wants to hear and it is an
35:45honor actually that they endorsed dr.
35:48Martin Luther King and were against the
35:53Honorable Elijah Muhammad that's
35:54actually an honor now when you say that
35:56they also in the same Newsweek poll
35:59magazine they I think the pollster said
36:01that he went into the Negro community
36:02and asked about the Muslims and many
36:07Negroes only asked that will I never
36:09heard of the Muslims who are they you
36:11know this is rank-and-file words oh yeah
36:12now and when they got down to the
36:13rank-and-file this was the answers that
36:15they got this is the equivalent the
36:18situation in Kenya during the Mau Mau
36:21uprising when many frightened whites in
36:25Kenya Africa would go among the Africans
36:28and ask them what about the Mau Mau and
36:31the African was there I never heard of
36:33them and the same white man who would
36:35ask the African this question and very
36:36naively believed what the African said
36:39when he went to bed that night he would
36:41lose his head and usually the one who
36:42took his head was the same African who
36:44told him that afternoon he had never
36:46heard of the Mau Mau except in the
36:49Newsweek poll they used Negro
36:51interviewers you'll find that oftimes
36:54Negroes are as much on guard around
36:58Negro interviewers who usually represent
37:00the bourgeois element of Negroes as they
37:04are on guard around whites usually
37:07Negroes know that when this bourgeois
37:09Negro walks through the door he is not
37:11doing something that he's initiated
37:13himself but he's involved in something
37:15in which the white man is the absolute
37:17author of and has sent him to the Negro
37:19community
37:20some information and when they give that
37:22Negro some information usually they give
37:24him the information that they want the
37:26white want him to take back to the white
37:28man because that's who is going to take
37:29it back to our time is just about up
37:34Minister Malcolm and perhaps you could
37:37summarize and conclude by giving us in
37:40your opinion in the opinion of mr.
37:42Elijah Muhammad what would be the ideal
37:46solution to the racial problem in the
37:50United States today well on Thursday
37:52October the 3rd the New York Tribune in
37:54an editorial pointed out in Boston on an
37:58article called the Civil Rights iceberg
37:59they pointed out how Kennedy had
38:02realized that beneath the water the
38:05civil rights whole problem was political
38:08suicide because in his own hometown the
38:11head of the Board of Education a woman
38:13named mrs. Hicks was running against the
38:16n-double-a-cp philosophy and she swept
38:19aside all other opposition the whole
38:21white community supported her in
38:23opposition to the n-double-a-cp s desire
38:26for integrated schools integrated
38:27housing and otherwise so I say that to
38:29say this that even the Jewish Committee
38:31community which is supposed to be pro
38:33liberal when against the n-double-a-cp
38:35whites are against integration in
38:38practice but therefore it in principle
38:41so the only solution is separation and
38:43the Honorable Elijah Muhammad says that
38:45this can be brought about simply by
38:47letting our people be exposed to the
38:49truth about ourselves about the white
38:52men about our history and our condition
38:54in this country and once we are exposed
38:56to the complete truth there's things
38:58about things as they actually exist in
39:00this country the masses of black people
39:02will choose complete separation from
39:04this entire system political system
39:06economic system social system and
39:08whatever other aspect or description you
39:10are adjective you want to attach to it
39:13let us go back home to our own people
39:15live among our own kind and solve our
39:17own problems ourselves and if the white
39:18man doesn't want us to go back to our
39:20own people and live in our own country
39:22then since we can't get along together
39:24in peace on this country with white
39:26people let a separate part of this
39:27continent migrate to that separate
39:29territory let the government give us
39:31everything we need to establish our own
39:34independent economic system in society
39:36and thereby will be able to solve our
39:39own problems ourselves and prove that we
39:40are human beings and a part of the human
39:42family and can do for ourselves what
39:44other humans have done for themselves
39:45men will be able to stop blaming the
39:48white man for what he has done and stop
39:50begging the white man to solve our
39:52problems we'll be able to solve our
39:53problems ourselves thank you very much
39:56that's it