Full transcript
0:00Letting go is very meaningful when you
0:01don't want it. Okay? And and like I say,
0:04it's not renunciation outside. It's
0:07saying I have an ego, but I don't have
0:09to buy into it. I have to own it. I'm a
0:12witness conscious. And I see that
0:14there's these things in here. They come
0:17up naturally, don't they? They have a
0:19way of finding you.
0:25N sing.
0:53In this episode of Insights at the Edge,
0:56I [music] am with Michael Singer, a
0:59friend, beloved wisdom teacher, founder
1:03of The Temple of the Universe, and the
1:06author of four books which in my opinion
1:10are all to be considered spiritual
1:13classics. Books you go back to again and
1:16again that stand the test of time.
1:20Approximately 20 years ago, the
1:22untethered soul was published, followed
1:25by the surrender experiment, which was
1:29autobiographical in nature, followed in
1:342022 by a book called Living Untethered.
1:38So now we're seeing an untethered
1:42series. And then earlier this year, the
1:46third book you could say in the
1:48Untethered Soul series, Wisdom
1:51Untethered, the time for questions. I
1:55have to say, even though I wonder if
1:57it's just because it's the book I'm
1:58reading right now, Wisdom Untethered
2:02might be my favorite of all of the books
2:05because it's so practical,
2:08so immediately applicable to the
2:12questions in our lives. And that's what
2:14we're going to be talking about. In the
2:17creation of Wisdom Untethered,
2:20Michael along with his team, they
2:23gathered 1,200 questions. People wrote
2:26in questions to Michael Singer about the
2:29issues that were raised in his previous
2:32books. They asked him questions when he
2:35gave talks at the Temple of the
2:36Universe. They distilled these 1,200
2:40questions into 200 terrific and
2:44essential questions. and put them into
2:47different categories. Michael, I'm
2:49almost ready to bring you on. I just
2:50want to give people a sense of how
2:52incredible this book is. So, there are
2:55chapters on ego and self-concept,
2:58desires and preferences, dealing with
3:00fear, engaging with the world,
3:03relationships, and more. The subtitle, A
3:07Time for Questions, and this is our time
3:09for questions. Michael Singer, welcome.
3:13>> Hi, Tammy.
3:15Hi. Hi. Hi.
3:16>> Hi. Hi. Hi.
3:19>> Here at the very beginning, you say
3:22right at the start of the book, in the
3:24preface,
3:26ultimately life is asking you a single
3:31question. Even though there are 200
3:32questions in the book, a single
3:34question. Are you willing to let go?
3:39Let's start there. Why you say it could
3:42be distilled into this one question?
3:46>> No, it really explains my entire path. I
3:51started off back in 71 or so dropping
3:54out and meditating six hours a day and
3:57just I'm getting out. Okay. And what
3:59life did to me was to say, yes, it's
4:03good and you should try to get out, but
4:06you should also find out why you're not.
4:08What's the anchor? what's holding you
4:10down because otherwise you're stretching
4:12yourself to try and go up but there's
4:14something holding you down and that's
4:17where I learned to let go. I learned
4:20people misunderstand some of the
4:21teachings uh especially in the strange
4:24experiment that letting go means outside
4:26don't deal with anything don't argue
4:28with anybody I mean don't disagree with
4:30anybody don't have a political view
4:32right letting go is something you do
4:34inside and has some it's it's a form of
4:36meditation think it's a walking
4:38meditation it's constant okay and what
4:41happens is you walk through life and not
4:44everything fits if you haven't noticed
4:46right things happen that cause fear to
4:48come up, things happen that cause desire
4:50to come up. Things happen that cause
4:52insecurity to come up. Things happen
4:54that you feel defensive and so on. And
4:56it took a long time with me to to get to
4:58the point where I realized that is where
5:01it's at. Where it's at is saying if this
5:03stuff comes up, you don't want it in
5:06there. It's been in there. Well, we'll
5:08we'll have plenty of time to talk about
5:10it throughout this hour, but it's been
5:11in there a long time. That doesn't give
5:13it a reason or excuse to say, "I want it
5:16in there." You don't want it in there.
5:18it's causing all this trouble. Why are
5:19you defensive? Right? Because you got
5:21hurt previously or because you know
5:23people said things you didn't defend
5:25yourself and you were sorry later.
5:27Instead, you [clears throat] get to the
5:28point where you say, "I don't want it in
5:31there. I I love myself. I love
5:34everybody, [snorts] but I don't need
5:35that garbage in there from my past. So,
5:37when it comes up, are you willing to let
5:40it go?" And I've learned that that's the
5:43entire path. If you are willing to let
5:45it go even to the very very deep levels,
5:48right? Letting go is very meaningful
5:50when you don't want to. Okay? And like I
5:53say, it's not renunciation outside. It's
5:55saying I have an ego, but I don't have
5:58to buy into it. I have to own it. I'm a
6:01a witness conscious. And I see that
6:03there's these things in here. They come
6:05up naturally, don't they? They have a
6:08way of finding you. And what you find is
6:10if you're willing to let them go,
6:13I'll do it quickly. All this shock
6:15starts flowing inside where there used
6:17to be fears and anxieties or jealousies
6:19or insecurities, right? And needs and
6:21wants and so on. Now all of a sudden
6:24there's less of that and to whatever
6:26degree there's less of that and
6:28literally one to one. Whatever degree
6:30there's less of that stuff in there. You
6:32start feeling this beautiful upward flow
6:35shi energy pouring up inside of you
6:37until you finally reach the point you
6:39say I'm gonna let go of what every
6:41single thing that comes up to the best
6:43of my ability you will not be perfect
6:45believe me right but if it comes up I'm
6:48going to take the position I don't need
6:50this in here then don't deal with it you
6:51don't not deal with things but first you
6:53let go so that's what letting go means
6:57>> you mentioned as you were talking about
6:59this path of letting go that early in
7:02your life. You wanted to quote unquote
7:04get out and then you discovered this
7:07[clears throat] art. And
7:09>> one of the misunderstandings I think of
7:12your work that you address right early
7:15on in wisdom untethered is is this
7:19approach that you teach a type of
7:22spiritual bypassing let's get out or
7:25not? And you're very clear that it's not
7:28spiritual bypassing. So can you explain
7:30that? Yeah. Is is literally the
7:33opposite. Spiritual bypassing means what
7:36are you bypassing? That what came up
7:38that was difficult? What came up that
7:40was uncomfortable? I don't want to deal
7:42with that. So, I'll have a spiritual
7:43ego. I'll I'll serve. I'll I'll do
7:45anything I can do. I'll wear white
7:47clothes. I don't want to pick anybody.
7:49I'll I'll do things that look spiritual.
7:53Well, really what's going on inside is
7:55anything but that. That to me is what's
7:58meant by spiritual bypassing. All right.
8:00If when it comes up you're willing to
8:03address it. Not address it mean fix it.
8:06You don't have to fix it. You have to
8:08let it go. That's very different. So
8:10you're not avoiding it. And the way I
8:12tell it ultimately I think the clearest
8:14is you don't go down to it.
8:18You let it come up to you. And that's
8:20very deep. It will come up to you unless
8:23you push it away. So it's not bypassing.
8:26It's inviting it to come up and letting
8:29it pass through. All right? So, it's
8:31it's literally lifting you. You're not
8:33bypassing it. And all the down all the
8:35stuff down there, it's called
8:36transmutation of energy. Every single
8:39thing that's down there, no matter how
8:40dark it is, no matter when it happened,
8:42no how long it's been in there, is
8:44capable of turning into light as you let
8:46it go. But you don't do that. It happens
8:49naturally as you let go. All right. Uh
8:52Yander once said, which I really like.
8:55He said darkness is the absence of
8:58light. It's not a bad thing. It's the
9:01absence of light. So if you're willing
9:03to let go, really let go, then what's
9:06underneath it all is God is shocking. So
9:10I'm glad people talk about spiritual
9:11bypassing because some people do that.
9:13This is the opposite. This is welcoming
9:15it to come up and relax through it so
9:19that it can make its way completely
9:20through and not be bypassed.
9:23So to to get a little bit more precise,
9:26often when you talk about what it is
9:28that we're letting come up, you describe
9:31this using language from the yogic
9:34tradition as our samscaras
9:38have been triggered by XYC event and
9:41that's what's coming up. So explain
9:43samscaras particularly for people who
9:45are hearing that word for the first
9:47time. Well, [clears throat] actually
9:49fortunately it was very easy because of
9:51modern psychology and psychology
9:53altogether. Like I love Freud, okay? He
9:56was not an enlightened spiritual being
9:57in any way, shape or form. But he
10:00brought to the surface that you know
10:02what you shove stuff down in there.
10:05That's a score. It's not a memory.
10:08Memories come and go. You can have
10:09memory. You can bring it back. It
10:11doesn't do anything. It's fine. You
10:12should remember things. They do. They
10:14they pass through and then you can bring
10:15them back. Some scar is one that didn't
10:17pass through that basically it came in
10:20and you couldn't handle it. It disturbs
10:22you so much that you you in there you
10:25have will in there you pushed it away.
10:28Okay. And so that's what a subsca is is
10:30a pattern that was a pattern in life
10:33that happened. If it didn't happen don't
10:35worry about it but it obviously
10:36happened. It's called reality and it
10:38didn't make it through you. Everything
10:40will make it through you if you let it
10:42if you let go. So you didn't let go. So
10:45now you store this stuff inside and
10:47that's where all the negativity comes
10:48from. That's where all the darkness
10:50comes from. That's you know it it
10:52literally those blockages that you shove
10:54down there are blocking the light. So to
10:56sit there and have all the blockages and
10:58then reach for the light that's it's
10:59wonderful by all means do everything you
11:01can but let if you let go of the
11:03blockages it naturally comes into it
11:07turns into light. So basically that is
11:11what some is not a difficult concept. is
11:13basically something that came in. How do
11:15you know? You know, you you be dill. It
11:18didn't come in, right? It came into your
11:20inside. Happened outside. Happened
11:23inside too, but happened outside. Let's
11:25say somebody said something, somebody
11:26did something, somebody didn't say
11:27something, didn't do something. It it
11:30came in and it hit you wrong. And what
11:33do you do? You attempt to protect
11:34yourself from it. It's not even a thing.
11:37It's just energy at that point. It comes
11:39in and it's energy inside. If you
11:42protect yourself from it, what you're
11:43doing is resisting the energy and it
11:45will stay blocked in there. What I teach
11:47is it circles around itself. Energy
11:50energy has to keep moving. Well, the way
11:52that energy can move and stand still is
11:55in a circle. That's why the circle is
11:56such a important uh shape in our
12:00universe, planets, this that and
12:01everything. All right? Is because energy
12:04can stay in one place and still be
12:06moving. But you don't want that energy
12:09in there. I always ask people, did you
12:11like that experience you had when you
12:13were five or 10 or 15 or 20 and
12:15different things happened? No. Then why
12:17did you choose to keep it? Right? It's
12:19already over, right? I mean, you're gone
12:22and everything's over from your
12:24childhood. Why did you decide that
12:26because I don't like it, I'll keep it.
12:28So a samscara is something you kept. You
12:32pushed it away, which I understand
12:34things are difficult to deal with. But
12:36you'll see it through this talk that the
12:38essence of all my teachings are you can
12:40learn to be more open. You can learn to
12:43deal with it. You can learn to let it
12:44go. You don't know how to. Now the
12:46natural impulse is to push it away to
12:49protect yourself and and try to create
12:51an environment outside which doesn't hit
12:53yourself. Eventually you'll catch on.
12:56Come and get it. You want a piece of me?
12:59Take it because I don't want it. I don't
13:00want that stuff in there. So that's what
13:02a sanscara is. And that's what the path
13:05of of purification. Pure real
13:07purification doesn't mean no swear.
13:09Purification means you don't have all
13:10that stuff in there.
13:12>> One of the 23 chapters is on samscaros
13:16is dedicated to that. And one of the
13:18things you write in that chapter since
13:20they were generally stored with pain
13:23they'll come back with pain. Yeah,
13:26>> you have to be willing to handle the
13:28disturbance they create out create
13:31without pushing them back down. So, I
13:34think this is a really important point,
13:37Michael, because when I read your
13:38opening question in the preface, are you
13:40willing to let go? I scribbled to
13:43myself, yes, but it sounds painful.
13:48This is going to be painful. And
13:51actually, it is. I mean, let's I mean,
13:53yes.
13:58You know what child birth is painful but
14:01people goes back for second thirds and
14:03fourths for more. Okay. Why? Because the
14:06benefits of
14:09putting up with dealing with
14:11surrendering relaxing in the face of the
14:14pain is worth what you gain. You don't
14:18want that stuff down there. You have to
14:21We'll talk about this more as we talk.
14:22What What do I do if I have it down
14:24there? You have to protect yourself from
14:25it. How? By hanging out with certain
14:28people that you don't think will
14:29challenge you. By being only with people
14:31that that are friendly and never dealing
14:33with people that hurt you before. You
14:35won't move about moving to Arizona
14:38because there are rattlesnakes and I
14:39once saw a snake and I I've been scared
14:41of them ever since. It patterns your
14:43entire life. It will decide who you
14:46marry and who you don't marry. No, no,
14:48no. My uncle talked to me like that and
14:50I don't. Right. It's like you start
14:53making every decision based on what
14:55protects you from yourself. The deep
14:58understanding. All right? That's what
14:59you're doing. You're protecting yourself
15:00from yourself. You're protecting
15:01yourself from life. Life's going on
15:03everywhere. It's all over the place.
15:04Doesn't bother you. All that bothers you
15:06is the little piece that comes in to
15:08you. All right? I think it's hilarious.
15:10But you don't like it, look to the left,
15:11look to the right, look up, look down,
15:14right? But the point is it's happening
15:16everywhere and it's going to hit your
15:18stuff. All right. Move out to the woods.
15:20I moved out through the woods to
15:22meditate in solitude like a year and a
15:24half, right? And I I I'm embarrassed to
15:26say it, right? I mean, it's really way
15:28back in the woods, right? And I'm trying
15:30to meditate. There's a dog barking. It
15:32bothered me as much as somebody
15:34criticizing me, right? What are you
15:35doing with that dog in the distance?
15:37It's like, you're not going to get away
15:38from yourself. Okay? If you have
15:41preferences and fears and desires and
15:43they're going to get stimulated either
15:45internally or externally, you get to the
15:48point where you understand it is the one
15:51of the great saints once told me is a
15:53pain that ends all pain. If you are
15:56willing to the question becomes not is
15:58it painful of course it's painful it was
16:00stored with pain that cycle of energy
16:03that I talked about you blocked pain you
16:05block that disturbing experience so of
16:08course it's going to come back that a
16:10lot of times somebody says something and
16:12you start crying right oh don't talk
16:14like that I told you not to talk like
16:16that all right well it's not how you
16:19want to be you want to sit there and say
16:21that in me it's pain waiting to happen
16:24that pain do you want the pain that's
16:26waiting to happen or the pain that
16:28you're learning to let go of so it's not
16:30in there for the rest of your life. I
16:32know what I choose. All right? And and
16:34so do a lot of other people. That's why
16:35they like the different books. All
16:37right? Because it finally addresses the
16:39fact that of course it's going to be
16:41painful. It was stored with pain. What
16:43do they say when you lift the weights?
16:45No pain, no gain. Okay? You're not
16:48trying to get into pain. You're not
16:50putting yourself in a situation that you
16:51know will be painful. Don't worry. Life
16:53will do that for you. is perfectly
16:55willing. You don't have to worry about
16:57doing it. What you what you deal with is
16:59am I willing when it comes up and my
17:02tendency inside is to push it away. Just
17:06ask, do I want this in there for the
17:08rest of my life? All right? I don't care
17:10how big it is, right? It does not have
17:13to be. And that's that's the main point
17:15people ask me. What about really really
17:16terrible things that happen to people,
17:18right? Don't they have to stay in there
17:20and just cope with them? Absolutely not.
17:23Anything that's in there is in there
17:26because your will is holding it in
17:28there. Either subconsciously or
17:29consciously. All right? That's all Freud
17:31stuff. Denial, repression, suppression.
17:34That's all. I couldn't handle it, so I
17:36pushed it away. I understand. Of course,
17:38we deal with each other with tremendous
17:40compassion. And understand, especially
17:42if you walk this path, you'll learn to
17:43be compassionate for others, right? Even
17:45if they're not anything like you, right?
17:47They had their experiences that cause
17:49issues. Well, you had yours that cause
17:50issues. And so, you stop judging
17:52altogether. And you just sit there and
17:54say when it comes up, do I want to keep
17:56it in there? Of course, I don't want to
17:57keep it in there. And then the other
17:59side, like I said, is when you're
18:00willing to let go. And you start to see
18:02what happens when you let go. Instead of
18:05the pain being down there, the fear of
18:06the pain, there's all this shocking.
18:08There's all this God. There's all this
18:10light that comes pouring up inside all
18:12the time. Okay? It's because your
18:14natural state of being. Well, why was it
18:16that way before? Because you held all
18:18that stuff in there. So you get to the
18:21point where you realize I don't want it
18:23in there. And I don't think anybody
18:25does. If I ask you, you had trouble with
18:27your mother, trouble with your father,
18:28trouble with your sister, right? Do you
18:30want that to bother you for the rest of
18:32your life? You're saying, "No, but it
18:34does. And I don't want to have to deal
18:35with it." Well, that's spiritual
18:36bypassing. Okay? It's not spiritual
18:39bypassing. You're you're pushing life
18:41away outside so you don't have to push
18:43it away inside. You just yoga and the
18:46deep spiritual practices are about
18:50I am open to going through what I need
18:53to go through what Ramach used to say
18:56use it to go to God use it to go to God
19:00okay and that's what you start realizing
19:02and God can be whatever you want it to
19:04be right but part of it is love and
19:06ecstasy and joy and such and all right
19:08you start realizing that is what's in
19:10there and then then you you're willing
19:13to go through this and let it Oh, but I
19:16don't know what to say. You get you play
19:18volleyball and and you block you block a
19:20shot, a spike. Well, you may get a black
19:23and blue mark on your on your hand. Oh,
19:25I'm never going to play again. Of
19:26course, you're going to play again. You
19:28enjoy the sport. You enjoy the
19:29challenge. Not to mention football
19:31players, right? So, you just stop being
19:34a baby and realize I'm not going to live
19:37in my life because I can't handle
19:39things. I'm I'm open to saying, okay,
19:41some things as they're cleansing,
19:43especially cleansing things, some things
19:45as they're cleansing are going to bring
19:47back memories and thoughts and feelings
19:50that are not comfortable. They weren't
19:51comfortable to start with, so they're
19:53surely not going to be comfortable now.
19:55Good.
19:57And I and we will go deeper into this as
19:59to what I've learned is the right
20:01attitude of how to deal with that stuff
20:03in there. Okay. Someone asks what's the
20:08approach you take to releasing samscaras
20:11and you say naturop being a naturopath
20:15in most things is the path that you take
20:18being a naturopath. What did you mean by
20:20that?
20:21>> That that means don't worry life will
20:23take care of your [laughter]
20:26to me life is a guru every moment of
20:29every day
20:31right things are happening. Earth is a
20:34happening place. Okay? No matter where
20:36you go on any spot on this amazing
20:39planet, there's something happening. Can
20:42you handle it? And that's what my path
20:46has evolved into for me. All right? And
20:49apparently for a lot of others, which is
20:52of course I can handle it. It's just an
20:54experience. It comes and it goes. But
20:56what if I can't handle it? Then work on
20:59learning to hand. That's my big thing.
21:01You can't play the piano when you first
21:03sit down. Well, we might as well quit.
21:05You can't play Beethoven or Chicowski.
21:07All right. You You can't play a sport.
21:09Go pick up a tennis racket first time.
21:12That ball's going to the net. I quit.
21:14No, you don't do that. You have this
21:16thing called learning, don't you? Right.
21:18We all learn. We learn how by practice.
21:21That's how you do this path. You
21:23understand life is going to do its
21:25thing. Okay? If it bothers you, that's
21:28because it hits something inside of you.
21:30Are you willing to learn to let go? It
21:34takes time. It takes practice. You start
21:36with small things. I tell everybody,
21:38start with the weather. The weather is
21:40your guru. The weather is a great
21:42teacher. Why? Because you can't handle
21:44it. Can't handle it's windy, blows your
21:46hair. Can't handle that it's hot. You're
21:48going to sweat. Can't handle it's cold.
21:49You shiver, right? And you complain
21:52about suddenly you have no control,
21:54right? And you get to the point where
21:56you say, "Why can't I handle the
21:58weather? What's the matter with me?" and
22:00you start saying,"I want to be able to
22:02handle the weather." Not I want to be
22:04able to complain about it and let it
22:05bother me. That doesn't [clears throat]
22:06do any good. And the other one I use all
22:08the time. People tell me I always use
22:09the same examples. Yes, I do because
22:11they're good examples. All right. The
22:13driver in front of you. Tammy, you ever
22:15been behind a driver in front of you?
22:17Don't use your blinkers. They put their
22:18brakes on all the time. They're driving
22:1950 miles hour below the speed limit.
22:22Question to all of you. Do you ever talk
22:23to them? Guess what? They don't hear
22:25you. But you're bothering yourself about
22:29absolutely nothing. You're sitting a
22:30little planet sp nowhere. And you you
22:33are not dealing with the fact that if
22:35you bother yourself about the weather,
22:37you bother yourself about the car in
22:38front of you, you're going to bother
22:40yourself about the fact someone didn't
22:41say hello. Or bother yourself about when
22:43you tell them, "Oh, I love you so much.
22:45I can handle that." And they say, "Yeah,
22:46I love you, too." I don't like the tone.
22:50It's like you could be bothered by
22:52everything. Instead, you start with the
22:55small stuff like the weather and the car
22:56in front of you. Why is that small?
22:59Because the costbenefit anal businessman
23:01the costbenefit analysis 100% cost
23:04you're bothered and zero benefit. Didn't
23:06do any good for anybody. Well, that's
23:08not a good business business decision.
23:10And so you sit there and say, "From now
23:12on, I'm going to come into life every
23:14morning, wake up, meditate, do what you
23:17need to do, but at least wake up and
23:19say,"I am going to go through this day
23:22without getting bothered by stupid
23:25little things." Okay? And you practice
23:28and you won't do good, but then you sit
23:30down at night and you say, "Is there
23:32stuff that I could have let go of that I
23:34didn't? Am I willing to let go now?" And
23:37you start practicing. It's called
23:38practice. You practice being open. You
23:41practice letting go. You practice not
23:43shoving. Literally what you say first in
23:45the morning is I got all the stuff in
23:47here. I ain't put nowhere in today.
23:49[laughter] I know I got enough trouble
23:51getting the stuff. Have you noticed they
23:53put the stuff down there? It's hard to
23:54get out. All right. But if you don't
23:56complain about it and you don't push it
23:58down, it doesn't have to stay down. It
24:00will pass right through. And so you
24:01start practicing letting go. You
24:04practice with small stuff. And
24:06eventually though I'm not gonna brag
24:07because my teacher once told me anything
24:09you say you could do when you get
24:10challenged. So I don't do anything.
24:14>> But I wanna I want to talk more here
24:15about the practice because in wisdom
24:18untethered you offer lots of actually
24:21very specific
24:23practice suggestions that I found so
24:25helpful. [clears throat]
24:26One of them is this notion of falling
24:29behind.
24:32>> And I I'm wondering if you can explain
24:34that more. What do you mean? You're
24:35falling behind the pain that you're
24:39experiencing [clears throat]
24:40the disturbance.
24:41>> You're falling behind the resistance to
24:43the pain. You're in there. You want to
24:46call it witness consciousness. Call
24:47whatever you want. Maybe you've never
24:49heard the witness conscious. You're
24:50still in there noticing your thoughts.
24:51Believe me. All right. Everybody's in
24:53there. Okay. Do you notice that you push
24:57things away?
24:59Yes. Okay.
25:02Balling behind means the energy that's
25:06coming up is disturbing. I'm not saying
25:09it's not disturbing. You wouldn't be
25:11talking about it disturbing. It's
25:13disturbing you. Okay. Are you willing to
25:16relax? Like in yoga when you go into a
25:19posture as they tell you [clears throat]
25:21relax into it. All right. So here it
25:24starts to come up. You tend to resist.
25:27Are you willing to relax and fall behind
25:30the tendency to resist? That's one of
25:32the techniques. All right? And it really
25:34is the essence of spirituality. You
25:36understand? When all said and done,
25:38you're doing that if you're going
25:39anywhere. All right? Otherwise, you're
25:40going to stay down here fighting with
25:42yourself. And so, it comes up and you
25:44look at it and you just I don't know
25:47when you push it away, you are
25:49resisting. Resistance is an act of
25:53pushing away. All right? Tensing. You
25:56can't resist without tensing. All right?
25:58If you relax, you can't tense. you've
26:01relaxed. You don't want to sit there and
26:03stare at it. Like I said before, it's
26:06not that you have to you can if you
26:07people teach you different things.
26:08They're all fine with me. But if you
26:11don't have to go down into it, you if
26:13you can let it come up to you as a much
26:15higher path if you're willing to let it
26:18come up to you and let it pass through,
26:20it's going to go out over time. If you
26:22go down and get all involved with it, a
26:24lot of times it gets worse before it
26:26gets better. But all one thing I want to
26:28get straight. There are lots of
26:29techniques and I honor all of them.
26:31Okay? I really I really do. I just want
26:34you to grow. I just want you to work on
26:36a regular basis to free yourself from
26:39yourself. And that's what's going on.
26:41All right? But in the past, I'm talking
26:43about
26:44if you can fall behind the energy,
26:48right? There's a place behind the
26:50energy. But the one deeper in living
26:52untethered was let's say you can't. I've
26:56certainly went through times in my early
26:57path where the pain, the thing was very
27:01disturbing, right? And it was causing
27:03all kinds of trouble and I couldn't get
27:05behind it. And I learned that if I lie
27:08down,
27:10stretch my arms out to the side, lift my
27:13chest up, all right, and let the energy
27:18flow over me instead of me getting
27:20behind it. welcome it to just flow like
27:24be getting in the water and the water
27:26can flow over you. So you don't have to
27:29fight the energy. There's lots of
27:30different techniques
27:32where what you don't want to do is push
27:34the energy back down. I don't know what
27:35to say. If you push it back down, it's
27:37going to stay there. Right? So if you
27:38can fall behind it, that's very high.
27:40That has every opportunity to come up
27:42and release. Not the first time. There's
27:46not a technique like a drug, right? That
27:48the first time you try to relax, it
27:49goes, it's gone, right? Some things are
27:51deep. They will take multiple time. You
27:53don't learn a piano in one sitting,
27:55right? Or tennis. Well, this is
27:58something you practice. And the better
27:59more you practice, the better you get,
28:01right? But that's another technique. The
28:03technique of lying down. And I said
28:05shake your chest out. It's slightly
28:06different. Lie down and fall to the
28:08floor. Let your body just fall and let
28:11that disturbing energy pass over you.
28:15Lift the chest up is when I say offer it
28:17to God. Offer it to mother. Right there
28:19it is. Here, you take it. I I don't want
28:21to fight it. I don't want to own it.
28:24Here, you take it. And you just keep
28:26offering it up. There's There's lots of
28:27ways to work with the energy. And the
28:29worst way is to suppress it.
28:32>> I want to just highlight one word that
28:34you used, offering, because you talk
28:37about how you can take it in your hands,
28:40like cup this disturbance, and actually
28:45offer it up to the divine.
28:48>> Yeah. I thought that was extraordinarily
28:49powerful, like a prayer almost when you
28:53when you don't know what to do with this
28:56painful
28:58phenomena inside.
29:01>> Tell you a secret,
29:02>> please. [clears throat]
29:03>> You give flowers.
29:04>> We flowers on the altar with God,
29:06whatever it is, right? I guarantee you
29:10he would rather have you give him that
29:13than a flower. You're giving what's
29:15keeping you from him or her. Understand?
29:19And that's what you're doing. You're
29:20offering something really meaningful.
29:23What did Christ say? You must die to be
29:25reborn. That is what that is. It's the
29:28willingness to die of the personal
29:30garbage that you have and be reborn as
29:33spiritual.
29:35One of the questions that was asked in
29:37wisdom untethered is I'm doing these
29:39practices. I'm working with releasing
29:42some scars. not suppressing. But they
29:44keep coming back. They keep coming back.
29:46They keep coming back. Michael, help me.
29:48They keep coming back.
29:52If they write me, if I were to answer
29:54that, you know what I say?
29:56>> I would
29:58>> I would pernob to them and say, "Thank
30:01you for sharing your deep growth because
30:03that is what's supposed to be happening.
30:06When you pick up that tennis racket,
30:09there'll be balls every time. I still
30:11wasn't doing that. Or somehow they hit
30:13it back. I can't get it back. What's
30:14wrong with me? There's nothing wrong
30:16with you. You're a process of learning
30:19and you have the right to learn. In
30:21fact, somebody once said to me back in
30:22the 70s,
30:24excuse me, Earth is a place that souls
30:26are sent to evolve. I'll repeat that.
30:28Earth, that little planet, is a place
30:31that souls are sent to evolve. That's
30:33how you evolve. You get better at tennis
30:36by practicing. You don't sit there and
30:38say, "God, I keep hitting to the net."
30:40Good. Good. Because someday you'll learn
30:42to turn your wrist. You'll learn to pay
30:44more attention and you'll be better.
30:46Practice doesn't mean perfect. That's a
30:48perfect master, right? But practice, you
30:50get there's no way when you practice a
30:53sport or an instrument, you don't get
30:54better. You may not be a concert penis,
30:57but you're going to get better. So
30:58that's my answer. If someone says it
31:00keeps coming back, good. That means it's
31:02real. That means it's really in there.
31:04That means you really want to let that
31:05thing go. So just take any opportunity
31:07you have and don't thing is no shame, no
31:10blame, you don't judge yourself, you
31:12don't say I should have done better. If
31:14you do the best you can at this path and
31:17you know what that means? It means every
31:19day um I'm not staring. I'm just here.
31:23You're not out there stressing. There's
31:24no anxiety. There's no stressing.
31:26There's no place to go. It's all about
31:29can you handle life? Can you let the
31:31reality of life come in and pass through
31:33you? It's going to take practice. And
31:36then you think you're done. You're not
31:38done. [laughter] There'll be more. Don't
31:40worry. All right. But you welcome that.
31:42And you ask me, "What do I do?" I have
31:44learned to take the attitude
31:47I not only is not tolerating that stuff.
31:50I welcome it coming up. I throw it a
31:52party. All right? That you please come
31:55on up. And then I'll tell you, I'll be
31:58embarrassed to say it because it's only
31:59over the last five years or more that I
32:02look down there and I start crying. I
32:05started apologizing to it as a part of
32:09the energy of my psyche that I shoved
32:11them into a closet like locking a kid up
32:14because they misbehaved. All right? And
32:16I look at it and I say, "I am so sorry
32:18that I was not clear enough and evolved
32:20enough to handle you when this all
32:23happened. I want to help you." All
32:25right, come take my hand. I take it to
32:28God. I will reach up. So that's your
32:30active process of welcoming it. You
32:32worship it. Why would you not worship
32:35that which you know keeps you from God
32:37the closest you're getting to God while
32:39you're not enlightened, right? Is
32:42dealing with that stuff. That's because
32:44it's blocking you. All right. Don't get
32:46me going.
32:47>> Well, no. This is so powerful because I
32:50think a lot of times when buried,
32:52painful memories, traumas, inherited
32:56wounds come up, we think we've done
32:58something wrong. We think there's
33:00something wrong. We're off the path.
33:02Look what's wrong with me. At my age,
33:04I'm still having these things surface.
33:08And you're offering a completely
33:11opposite. It's such an important
33:13perspective, Michael, to say, "Thank
33:16you. I welcome you. this you are the
33:19agent of my growth.
33:22>> You you said it better than I could.
33:24That that is the I've been at this what
33:2652 55 years. Now you're talking about
33:30what I've learned over all those years.
33:32All right? Is you pushed it down there.
33:36Don't feel guilty about it. Right? We
33:39weren't involved enough. We weren't
33:40clear enough. Weren't ready to deal with
33:42things, especially as children, right?
33:44But they don't have to be the formative
33:46years. meaning they formed your ego,
33:49right? They did and you made it through
33:51hopefully reasonably, whatever. Now it's
33:54time to wake up. Now it's time to
33:57evolve. Now it's time to say, "I don't
33:59need that stuff down there." Right? And
34:01I truly am sorry that we all did all
34:04kinds of things, right? But how here you
34:08you you're in fifth grade math and you
34:10failed. You failed the test. You thought
34:12you got them all right. You studied as
34:14hard as you could and you got you got
34:15five out of 10 wrong. All right. And you
34:18you got held back. Let's say that. Right
34:21now you got your PhD in ma in advanced
34:24mathematics. Should you feel guilty
34:26because what happened in your third
34:28grade? No. That's ridiculous. You should
34:31thank the third grader who got half of
34:33them wrong because that third grader
34:35went to the teacher and learned
34:37something they didn't know before. You
34:39wouldn't have got half wrong if you knew
34:40it. He's not ashamed. It's not a shame
34:42to have a coach to teach you how to do
34:44something right. So basically that this
34:47attitude that we're supposed to be
34:49perfect that's ridiculous. What you're
34:51supposed to be doing is practice makes
34:53perfect. And so you're working your way
34:55through yourself. And if you do that the
34:57best only thing that's ever asked of you
35:00is the best of your ability. All right?
35:03And then what happens when it comes back
35:05if if it has some teaching for you, you
35:08welcome it. You don't say I did my best
35:10and look what happened. is I did my
35:11best. Now I can learn to do better
35:13because I learned where it didn't work.
35:15And you just keep growing and growing.
35:17You never look back.
35:19>> One of the things that moved me the most
35:21about many of the answers to the
35:24questions in wisdom untethered is people
35:26would share the real struggles going on
35:29in their life, the deep pains and their
35:31inability
35:33to let them go and like I'm doing this
35:36wrong and this is happening and maybe
35:38I'm misunderstanding. And each time you
35:41had that attitude when someone shared
35:44with a lot of feeling their struggle,
35:47you bowed to them and you thanked them.
35:50You thanked them for telling the truth
35:53about their experience and wanting to
35:55work with it and being sincere. Being
35:58sincere about what they were going
35:59through. You know, Michael, that moved
36:01me as much as the rest of the answer
36:05was your response to people of
36:08acknowledging
36:09their spiritual work.
36:12>> Okay. So, let's one of my
36:16teachings that that because I keep
36:18growing, right, is you know, psychology,
36:21which I respect very much, right? It's
36:24it's not it can be spiritual and at
36:25least spirituality, right? it's a
36:27stepping stone and so on. But I have
36:29respect for people that are studying the
36:31mind instead of the emotions and so on,
36:33right? But what I have learned and we
36:36all should learn it and I stress it a
36:38lot in my talks, right? Is psychology
36:41says man, women
36:44is the sum of his learned experiences.
36:47Man is the sum of his learned
36:49experiences. Go look at them in the
36:50psychology books, right? And they're not
36:52wrong, but it's not true. I am the
36:54consciousness that my psyche that I
36:57pulled around myself is the some of my
37:00learned experiences. If you're bothered
37:02by something, somebody next to you
37:03doesn't even know why you're why you
37:04bothered by that. I'm not bothered by
37:06that. Right? How could you say that? I
37:08would never have said that. You had
37:10different experiences. Everybody had
37:12different experiences. Right? But yours
37:15are not more special than anybody
37:16else's. You understand that? Everybody
37:18had experiences all through their life
37:20in China and Russia and here and there
37:22and Iran and everywhere, right? Every
37:26single person there's 8.3 billion of us,
37:29right? Not to mention the ones that came
37:30before, right? Everyone, every moment of
37:34their life had an experience and it was
37:37different than everybody else's
37:38experiences. So why would anybody be
37:41like you? All right. And you get to the
37:43point where you realize you have
37:45compassion. That's to me that's the pud
37:47compassion. You have an understanding is
37:49so deep that you don't judge anybody.
37:52You don't fault anybody. If somebody
37:54walks up to you and says something
37:56really really mean to you, right? It's
37:58the some of their learn experiences.
38:00They they know they had a bad experience
38:01five minutes ago or five years ago or
38:03you remind them of somebody that
38:05bothered them in high in high school
38:06that bullied them. You follow me?
38:08There's a reason they're being the way
38:10they're being. It doesn't mean you don't
38:12deal with it. But it does mean that you
38:14don't resist it. You honor it. You
38:16respect it. You respect. This is why
38:18that's for that person. Master used to
38:20say that. Right. Right. A lot of people
38:22say it. Right. Before you walk before
38:24you criticize somebody else, walk a mile
38:26in their shoes. All right. Say, "But by
38:29grace, there goes there goes myself."
38:31That's an enlightened master. Guess
38:32what? It's true. All right. We all
38:35psychologically, ego- wise, mentally,
38:38emotionally are the summer learned
38:40experiences. If you question that,
38:42imagine the worst experience you ever
38:44had. Imagine it didn't happen. How would
38:45that have changed your life? Well, you
38:47know it would change it totally. That's
38:49because you're this what you're carrying
38:50around and there's a semi-learned
38:51experiences. So, you get to the point
38:53where you stop judging people. You stop
38:55expecting things, right? People say, "I
38:58got disappointed." You can't get
38:59disappointed if you didn't appoint. Now
39:01that doesn't mean they don't deal with
39:03things. First you let go. First you get
39:06clarity inside. Then you come out and
39:08you see what you can do to help. Not
39:10help you deal. Apologize. Can you say it
39:14to me? Apologize. Make me feel better.
39:16Apologize. No. No. No. No. That's for
39:20you. That's not helping the situation.
39:22That's senator saying, "I got bothered
39:24by what you did." All right. Get past
39:27that first. Right? and then look outside
39:29and see how you can help how you can
39:31help raise everybody not just you and so
39:34that's how I got where I get right is
39:38just the understanding that hey we are
39:41all different and that's why we all have
39:44different viewpoints right you want to
39:46change my viewpoint change my life
39:49[laughter] I can't believe you think
39:50like that okay go back and change what
39:52my uncle did what my grandmother did
39:54what the high school teacher did you
39:55follow me because that's why you are the
39:57way that's why you're psyched Not you.
39:59You're the consciousness watching all
40:00this. I hope you're back there enough.
40:02All right, but you whether you are or
40:04not, you still are. You know you're
40:05getting upset. You know you got have
40:07thoughts and emotions, right? You're you
40:09are the witness, right? But you're
40:11pulled down into what you're looking at.
40:13And so you don't you're not able to stay
40:15in that seat. But that's how that level
40:17of compassion and understanding and true
40:20worship and respect for another human
40:22being comes from is looking and
40:24realizing they're just like me. They
40:27seem different, but they are the sum of
40:29their learned experiences.
40:31>> One of the early chapters has a series
40:34of questions on witness consciousness,
40:36which you'd mentioned. And one of the
40:38things you point out, and it's
40:40something, you know, I've never really
40:41thought about it till you pointed it
40:42out. And so that's like, wow, this is
40:44kind of obvious, Tammy, but you never
40:45thought about it is that there are
40:48layers in the mind. Some of the
40:51questions were like, wait a second, how
40:52is the mind witnessing the mind? Isn't
40:54that the mind? and you were like let's
40:57talk about the layers. So can you share
40:59a little more about that?
41:03>> Obviously there are layers of emotions
41:05but but let's just start with what's
41:07going on.
41:09Okay.
41:13Consciousness created the universe.
41:16Someday you'll realize that. People
41:17realize that like but they're down to
41:19the quantum field. You know I like
41:20teaching that stuff. All right. They're
41:22down to there are no atoms. There are no
41:24atoms. They're made of electron protons.
41:26Then there are electron neutron protons,
41:28not atoms. Well, they're not electrons
41:30or protons, right? There are subatomic
41:34particles, quarks, lepttons, bzons. You
41:36get down to quantum physics, but that's
41:38what's really there. You understand?
41:40It's like if you have ice, water, and
41:43steam, right? They are the same thing.
41:47They're just vibrating at different
41:48rates. Well, that's what's going on with
41:50every single thing you interact with.
41:52It's down there. And then they think
41:53science has got down to there aren't
41:55even particles. There's just wavelets
41:57wavelets hitting each other in the
41:59quantum field. Well, the yogis
42:01understand those are vitis wavelets of
42:04of divine mind of consciousness. All
42:07right. So you start off with there's
42:09just consciousness. But I'll make it
42:12very quick. Right? Consciousness
42:15pays attention to the creation it made.
42:18Out of out of the kind of consciousness
42:20came the wavelets created everything and
42:23the consciousness is experiencing it.
42:24You have this beautiful dance of God
42:26creating creation and experiencing and
42:29dancing with the creation he created.
42:31Oh, what's wrong? I don't know. That's a
42:33Gordon. That's maybe Adam and Eve were
42:34there. I I don't know. I'm not a
42:35biblical person. All right. But then
42:38something went wrong. All right. I talk
42:40about as the original sin which I could
42:42never describe. That's too much. But
42:44what happened is that even consciousness
42:47that's experiencing everything the same
42:49grass snake doesn't mean it's not a
42:51snake. The vibration is different than a
42:53than a butterfly. Fine. It comes in you
42:56experience it. You'll pick it up. You
42:58experience it and it passes through and
43:00you keep the dance of creation takes
43:01place. Well, at some point something
43:04came in that was so strong that it
43:07distracted the evenness of the
43:10consciousness to focus. And that's the
43:13key word to focus on that vibration. The
43:17moment that creates duality, you now
43:20have created something separate from
43:22everything else because you focused on
43:24it. And so now you focused on it and now
43:27it fall happens from there. Now that
43:29thing determines something else. Whether
43:31you like things, whether you don't like
43:32things, all of that goes down into that
43:35kind of a situation scenario. And
43:37eventually you get to the point where
43:39you're lost. You're just sucked so much
43:41into the experience you had that you
43:43couldn't handle that you built this
43:45self-concept which isn't you. It's a
43:48concept of self. You built a
43:49self-concept and your consciousness
43:51divine. We go back to the question you
43:54asked. It is consciousness. It is God
43:56consciousness that is looking at your
43:58thoughts. It's just so focused on them
44:01that it can't get away from them. It got
44:04I use the word distracted. It got so
44:07distracted that that consciousness now
44:10is focusing on your thoughts, your
44:12emotions, your feelings and the world
44:14coming into your senses and everyone's
44:17running around their divine God getting
44:19caught in themselves and again it's what
44:22Christ meant by die to be reborn. Okay.
44:24So that's the starting position is that
44:27you are consciousness. Everybody is w
44:30everybody knows they have thoughts. Why
44:32are we calling that witness
44:32consciousness? The difference is are you
44:35aware that you're aware that you're
44:38aware that there are thoughts are you
44:41sucked into it so much right they don't
44:44even want to talk about it right don't
44:46tell me right [laughter] it's adorable
44:48so that's how I see witness
44:50consciousness we are all in it we are
44:52all se in fact right I know people say
44:56you know use it to go to God right I've
45:00started to say use it to not leave
45:03You're already there. You're already
45:05fully enlightened. You're the highest
45:06being ever walked off the face of the
45:07earth. You understand that, right? But
45:10you're being distracted by these silly
45:13little things that your mind and your
45:15emotions which how'd you pick them up?
45:17It's a summary of your learned
45:18experiences. You held on to the ones
45:20that bothered you a lot and you held on
45:22to some of the ones you liked a lot too
45:24and they're causing trouble because you
45:26want to happen again. All right? You
45:27judge everything against them. So then
45:29basically you just call it clinging.
45:32You're clinging to that which disturbs
45:34you. Clinging to that which you hope
45:36happens again. But I don't I don't to
45:37bother with that cuz 8 million times
45:40more that disturb you than the ones that
45:42really blew you away across across your
45:44life. So you built this thing inside of
45:46you and now you can't get out. But you
45:49can get out. Everybody's capable of
45:51getting out no matter what. But you have
45:53to be willing to let go of what you're
45:55staring at. That there I'm glad we
45:57talked about it. That's the entire
45:59journey down and back up.
46:03>> And the back up which you describe this
46:06rising you reference it as shockti.
46:10>> Yeah.
46:10>> Now that is the yogic term for it.
46:14That's naturally like right now sitting
46:17here with me are you feeling a shockti
46:20upflow as we're talking? I I don't like
46:24to talk about I it's never stopped from
46:26the moment I woke up as if God touched
46:28me and just
46:30what
46:33>> so I like that as if God touched me. I
46:35like that Michael finish with
46:37>> I remember what happened one my first
46:39meditations I sat down and I read the
46:42you read the story experiment right my
46:45life has never ever gone back from that
46:47moment
46:49and completely changed the entire rest
46:51of my life every minute everything am I
46:53perfect no way in any shape or form
46:56right am I better than I used to be yeah
46:58I am glad you know me now but so
47:02basically you you you just I wanted to
47:04go back there. I It was the most
47:06beautiful experience I ever had. And I
47:07never never let it go. I just sat there
47:10and said and I used to fight to keep it
47:12and I learned not to do that, right? I
47:14learned that no, there's a reason you're
47:16being p I'm more interested and you go
47:18into a deep meditation which is
47:20wonderful. You all should meditate. It's
47:21wonderful wonderful yoga said believe me
47:24I better watch it because my gurus
47:26meditate right but I'm interested and
47:28you go into a deep meditation. How long
47:30does it take before you can pull back
47:32down? How long does it take you say? Why
47:34is somebody calling me? Why is that
47:35happening? Oh my god, I forgot about
47:36this. And all of a sudden, boop, right?
47:38Why are you being pulled back down? It's
47:40really beautiful up there. Because you
47:43have this stuff in there and it
47:45distracts your consciousness. So that's
47:47why the path that I've learned to walk
47:49is I'm not going to fight to go up. I'm
47:52going to let go of what's holding me
47:54down. If there's an anchor keep me from
47:55sailing, I'm not going to keep blowing
47:57wind in the sails and doing everything I
47:59can to try and keep moving, right? I'm
48:02picking that anchor up so I don't have
48:03to struggle anymore. And that becomes
48:05your path. And it works. It works
48:06because then the energy that can go up
48:08isn't being pulled back down. And
48:11eventually, yes. Wait, you asked me a
48:13question. I don't like to talk about my
48:15state. I am nowhere. I nothing. That's
48:17why I I make sure I pay respect to the
48:20great perfect masters because I ain't
48:22one. And it's just beautiful to
48:25understand. We all got a ways to go,
48:27right? But I don't measure it. I just be
48:30grateful for whatever experiences I have
48:32and and and what I've learned that over
48:35time is and I don't I don't even like to
48:38say he he taught me to serve. That's
48:41ridiculous. I'd say who's a he and who
48:43are you and what's service? Just because
48:45you let go of yourself. What happens is
48:48service happens. You're not busy taking
48:51care of yourself anymore. You don't need
48:53to be taken care of. You're fine. The
48:55energy is feeding you. Right? I'm a nice
48:57Jewish yogi, but the teacher of Christ,
49:00which I don't study them, right? But
49:03they keep coming back to me. Right? He
49:05said, "Man does not live by bread alone,
49:07but by every word that leaveth the mouth
49:09of God." Well, what does that mean? I
49:11know what that means. You can get off on
49:14what's happening from outside if you get
49:16what you want. It feels really good,
49:17right? But there's this energy inside.
49:19You want call spirit shocki. Call
49:21whatever you want. There's this energy.
49:23There's this energy inside. It's really
49:26there. And when you stop blocking it and
49:28come in harmony with it, you wouldn't
49:30trade.
49:32All right. You wouldn't trade the
49:34outside any experience for what can
49:36naturally go on inside of you when
49:38you're not blocked anymore.
49:40Okay.
49:41>> I I'm not going to uh obviously press
49:43you to describe your inner experience
49:45right now. However, I do think this one
49:47thing's important, which is when you
49:51reference the upward flow. I think for
49:54people who have never had that or maybe
49:56had little glimpses, they're unclear
49:58like is that is that shockti flowing in
50:01me? Like what is it? What does it feel
50:03like? Oh, I think that's it. And I know
50:05in my own life when I started to feel
50:09this sort of inner rising river in front
50:12of the spine. I had wished that I had
50:15heard more about it and then afterwards
50:17I wanted to talk to people but I was a
50:19little bit afraid like you know you
50:20really want to talk about that Tammy
50:22that you know there's a sense of a
50:23geyser coming up. So I think it's
50:26helpful for people to have a reference
50:28point for what that is. So if you could
50:31talk to that.
50:32>> Okay. When people ask me questions, I I
50:35I always I I tell everybody, right? You
50:38can sit and listen, but when you walk
50:40away, don't even remember a single
50:41thing. I said, "All right, because I
50:43just don't approach it the same as
50:44everybody else, right? It is not true.
50:46They've not felt the shock." It's not
50:48It's absolutely not true. Okay, you are
50:52having a child and you're holding it for
50:55the first time. How do you feel?
50:58Oh, it's one of those magic moments,
51:00isn't it? All right. You're in love with
51:02somebody and for the first time they
51:04come up to you and say, "I've been
51:07embarrassed to tell you, but ever since
51:08kindergarten, I think you walk on water,
51:10right? I just love you so much. How you
51:12doing?" You're feeling shocked. Do you
51:15understand that? Okay. And as you feel
51:18an upward rise, don't you? You feel the
51:19heart open, don't you? You people can
51:21have all kinds of deep experiences,
51:24right? and a sunset.
51:28Ever turn the corner and by surprise,
51:30you're not looking for anything. There's
51:32all those majestic colors and you go
51:34bye-bye. You understand it? And you use
51:36words like it like this. It touched me
51:39to the depth of my being. Anything ever
51:42touched the depth of your being? I felt
51:44like I was in the presence of God. It's
51:46a rare experience. Music can do it to
51:48you. You understand? You can sit there
51:50and just melt completely. That is
51:53shakti.
51:54Period. Okay, that is shockti. But it's
51:59conditional. It's conditioned on things
52:01happening the way that match your psyche
52:04that turned you on turn somebody else
52:06off. That which turned you on yesterday
52:07turned you off today. Five minutes
52:09later, somebody will tell you one thing
52:11about somebody you used to love them.
52:13Now you don't want to talk to them ever
52:14again. You following the sum of your
52:16learned experiences. So that's what's
52:18happening is you've blocked the shocki.
52:20If you know it's there, there's this
52:22tremendous potential for joy inside. All
52:25right? So that's all I'm talking about
52:27is stop blocking it. If you stop
52:29blocking it, it it then a bird sings and
52:32you feel all the shock to come up. All
52:34right? Then so anything everything. All
52:37right? I always tell the story as
52:38follows, right? You're standing with a
52:40bunch of friends, right? Maybe in
52:41college, whatever it is, right? And
52:43somebody starts to walk across the
52:44street just talking. You got everybody's
52:46talking together. And somebody starts to
52:48walk across the street and you start to
52:49blush. You say, "Oh my god, she's going
52:51to come up. She she such I don't know
52:54why she has such respect for me. Wait,
52:56do you see?" All right. What do you see
52:58what she has to say? And the person
52:59walks up here or she and says, "Oh my
53:01god, there you are. I love you so much.
53:03You're so beautiful." They're talking to
53:05you, right? Okay. You let it go. Five
53:08minutes later, somebody else starts to
53:10walk up from the distance, who hates
53:12your guts, who has nothing nice to say
53:14about you, dishes you for every single
53:16person they meet. All right? And you say
53:18to your friends, "Oh my god, here here
53:20she comes." Right? She hates my guts.
53:22Wait, do you see? Wait, do you see what
53:24she's got to say? And she walks up
53:27and dumps all over you. Right? And you
53:29feel the same ecstasy from both.
53:32Understand that you did enclose one iota
53:36because the energy that came in you
53:37thought was adorable. Right? I had a
53:39spiritual teacher once tell me, all
53:41right, very very high lady, a lot of
53:43respect for her. She's passed some years
53:45ago, right? She she would never talk
53:47personal. It was very very sincere yogi
53:50yogini. And she leaned over to me once
53:52and she said, "Miki,"
53:54I said, "Yes." She says, "Don't you just
53:56love when they yell at you? There's so
53:58much energy." She channeled the freaking
54:01energy. People be yelling at her. All
54:04right. So, the point of the matter is we
54:07have experienced shocki. We just block
54:09it. We made it conditional. Things have
54:12to be exactly, and I mean exactly the
54:15way we want for us to open at all. All
54:18right. And how about the heart chakra?
54:21Has your heart ever opened? Can you keep
54:23it open all the time? Huh? Is it open
54:26just as much? They call puppy love,
54:28right? No. No. It's love, right? The
54:30trouble is as you start to go through
54:32experiences together and have problems
54:34and fighters, then it's so hard hard to
54:36keep it up. You said it goes through the
54:37kids. No. No. If you don't want the
54:40chakra to stop flowing, you can have
54:43that love unconditionally all the time
54:45there. Now I'm talking about chakras,
54:47right? And it can go up the spine and it
54:49can go to the third eye and can do all
54:51these things. So I just took issue that
54:53people say I don't know what the shock
54:55feel and I left out because I'm not I
54:57don't want to talk I never talk about
54:58it. One of those lower centers I forgot
55:00what number it was and you know what I'm
55:02talking about. A little bit of shocki
55:04there eh right? People have felt shakti.
55:07People have felt energy. It's all the
55:10same energy. The question is at what
55:12level is it expressing itself and how
55:14much are you willing to let it get past
55:16your psyche?
55:18Fair enough.
55:20>> Fair enough. And very good and very
55:21helpful. So I'm reading wisdom
55:24untethered and I am feeling the shocki
55:28through my system and then I get to a
55:31chapter that's on preferences. one of
55:35the sections and this is kind of funny.
55:38It's and I thought I don't like this
55:39chapter. I don't like this chapter. And
55:42I thought, oh, that's your preference,
55:43Jamie. You don't like this chapter. So,
55:45I kept reading the book. I'm like, I'm
55:46going to skip it. And then I thought,
55:47you should go back. You should go back.
55:49What's going on? Like, I started to get
55:52suspicious of myself. And then I read
55:55there's a relationship between your
55:57fears
55:58and your preferences. And I thought,
56:01yeah, that makes sense.
56:03you know, meet my preferences. I love my
56:05preferences. I mean, I know exactly the
56:08kind of tea I like. I have a special
56:09brand. I know exactly the kind of my
56:12favorite gelato. And I could go on and
56:15on, not just food and and drink
56:16preferences, all kinds. So, how are my
56:20preferences related to fears? And how do
56:24I relate to them intelligently on the
56:27path you're teaching?
56:29>> So, let's start this way. Of course you
56:31have preferences. Why? Because you're
56:33the summar experiences. Understand that
56:36there's some you like a tea that
56:38somebody else spits out. Why? I don't I
56:41don't know. You know, put it all
56:43together. I don't care. The point is be
56:45it biological, be it taste buds, be it
56:47an experience. Maybe maybe you had that
56:49tea with somebody once and it really hit
56:52you right. And so, right, it's just
56:53basically the sum of your learned
56:54experiences including your body as part
56:56of your learned experiences, right?
56:58Okay. I'm about denying that there's DNA
57:01and different stuff, right? That's part
57:03of your learned experience. You're in
57:04there living with that and living with
57:07the psyche and living with all kinds of
57:09experiences. All right? So, you will
57:11naturally be drawn toward or like
57:14something because you've had experiences
57:16with it, right? You see somebody you
57:18haven't seen for years that you you
57:20love, you're going to open. You love
57:22that experience, right? You see
57:24somebody, you can't stand them and they
57:26show up, right? you have a bad
57:28experience. So it's it's your
57:30preferences are the summary of learned
57:31experiences. That's what they are. Is
57:33there anything wrong with them? Of
57:35course not. There's nothing wrong with
57:36them. Is there anything wrong with
57:38saying I can't be okay unless I'm
57:41getting what I want, which is what
57:42everybody's saying, right? And they're
57:44not just saying, "Wait, they are all
57:46right. All right. Give me what I want.
57:48I'll be blowing my ear. I'll fall
57:50anywhere. Criticize me. I'm out of
57:51here." Right? If you get your
57:54preferences, it opens you. Fair enough.
57:58If you get what you want, it opens you.
58:00I who can deny that, right? If you get
58:02what you don't want, it closes you. All
58:05right? So, we extrapolate that into now
58:09I must devote my life to getting what I
58:12want and avoiding what I don't want. I
58:15have to choose what job I want and
58:17what's going to turn me on and etc. What
58:19I have passion about, what and blah blah
58:21blah. What do I want to do? What do I
58:22not want to do? Who do I like? Who do I
58:24not like? And and you just basically you
58:26project your preferences out into the
58:29world and say, "Be my way." You see a
58:33lot of that nowadays, don't you? Be my
58:35way. I want you to be my way. There
58:36can't be any other way. Be my way. All
58:38right? And you eventually get to the
58:40point where you realize, are these
58:42things of benefit or a problem? Because
58:44they're causing a lot of stress. If I
58:46don't get my preferences, I'm not so
58:48happy. If I get what I don't want, oh,
58:50forget it. And you're out there
58:52struggling with the world. All right?
58:55And you get to the point eventually
58:57where you realize that I getting getting
59:00late. Buddhist teachings are exactly
59:03there. The Buddhist said all life is
59:05suffering. It doesn't mean you broke
59:07your arm every day or so on. But rich
59:09people are suffering. Believe me, read
59:10the papers. [laughter]
59:12The billionaires are suffering probably
59:13more than anybody else. Suing each
59:14other, having all kinds of problems,
59:16right? And all kinds of people suffer.
59:18They suffer. Old people, young people,
59:20rich people, women, men, everybody is
59:23struggling. All right? And the Buddha is
59:26brilliant. His noble truths are
59:28phenomenal. His second noble truth is
59:31the cause of suffering is preference.
59:34It's it's usually uh translated as
59:36desire. The cause of suffering is
59:37desire. But in the west, we think of
59:39desire passion, lust, greed. All right?
59:42No, no, no.
59:45A desire is something you have because
59:47of a preference. There's no way that you
59:49create a desire unless you prefer
59:51something. And that's deeper. Seeing it
59:53as the the cause of suffering is
59:55preference because it is. If you don't
59:58care about anything about that a
1:00:00particular thing, right? Then here
1:00:02here's two T's. You like a book to say.
1:00:04Which one do you want? I don't care.
1:00:06Right.
1:00:06>> Right. And and I just need to I need to
1:00:08add this in because I realize we don't
1:00:10have a lot of time and I think this is
1:00:11important because I gave the examples of
1:00:14things that are very innocuous and not
1:00:16important but I'm imagining the person
1:00:18who says you know I have a preference
1:00:20for not having this illness
1:00:23>> you know I mean something serious.
1:00:26>> Yeah. Yes. If you have a preference for
1:00:28not having the illness you have the
1:00:30illness you're going to suffer. You'll
1:00:31suffer because of the illness and you'll
1:00:33suffer because you don't want to have
1:00:34it. We're talking deep now. Right. Is it
1:00:37possible that I have the illness and I I
1:00:40deal with it? I welcome it. This is
1:00:41what's happening in my life. This is
1:00:43what's happening. I have this illness,
1:00:44right? I I want to grow from it. I want
1:00:47to learn from it. I'm not saying I'm
1:00:50going to resist it. That's what happens
1:00:52when you have preferences. You resist
1:00:53certain things and cling to other
1:00:55things. But I don't teach to get rid of
1:00:57your preferences. We'll do it quick.
1:00:59Right? I had somebody once come to me.
1:01:01Very wealthy person from California came
1:01:03and visited. All right. And they they
1:01:05were very deep. I was very surprised and
1:01:07they said to me right when they left
1:01:10same you said to you I I like my
1:01:12preferences and I remember I wrote
1:01:14because you know the Thursday patriarch
1:01:16said the great way is not difficult for
1:01:17those who have no preferences right and
1:01:19so I I I the third day patriarch came
1:01:22down and gave me a special dispensation
1:01:24right that I get to change his famous
1:01:26quote to the great way is not difficult
1:01:30for those who prefer everything I'll
1:01:33repeat it the great way is Not difficult
1:01:36for those who prefer everything. That's
1:01:38the same as having no preferences. And I
1:01:41like that much better. Right? Just
1:01:43welcome and prefer life. Prefer every
1:01:47experience. Prefer every every single
1:01:50thing that happens. And then the great
1:01:51way is over. Enlightenment will take
1:01:54place because you're not separating what
1:01:56you like, what you dislike. All right.
1:01:58You made me go very deep.
1:02:00>> I appreciate it. And I do have one more
1:02:03question I have to ask you because it's
1:02:06really the question of our time. And I
1:02:09think some people would say, are you
1:02:11willing to let go? Are you willing to
1:02:14surrender and to accept during a time
1:02:18when passivity in the face of injustice
1:02:23is unacceptable for people of
1:02:25conscience? So I'm sure this is a
1:02:27question, Michael, that you get in many
1:02:30different forms. You address it in
1:02:32wisdom untethered. Can you give us the
1:02:35pith of that now?
1:02:36>> Yeah, it it's very straightforward. If
1:02:39it's bothering you,
1:02:42let's do it this way. Let's say you sit
1:02:43there and say, "I can't handle this. I
1:02:45can't handle this. I can't handle the
1:02:47injustice. I can't handle things." Well,
1:02:49if you can't handle it, you're the wrong
1:02:51person. If you're driving by a car
1:02:53accident, you say, "I can't handle the
1:02:55sight of blood." Well, just keep on
1:02:56driving, baby, because you're not going
1:02:57to help anybody. So if you can't
1:02:59literally can't handle it inside, you
1:03:02can't deal with it outside. All right?
1:03:04What because you're trying to do is
1:03:05change it so you be okay. It's first of
1:03:08all, you're trying to change it so that
1:03:10doesn't bother you. That's not helping.
1:03:12All right? Helping is okay. It's
1:03:15reality. Sorry, it's just reality.
1:03:18That's what it is. All right? Can I
1:03:20handle it? Of course, I can handle it.
1:03:22If I really want to, I want you to.
1:03:24Okay. Now, what? Okay. I let go. That's
1:03:27letting go. I let go. Now what? Nobody's
1:03:29asking to be passive. Of course, life is
1:03:31an interactive sport, right? You now
1:03:34come down with clarity because it's not
1:03:37about you anymore. You have clarity and
1:03:39you look and say, "How can I help?" You
1:03:42know, passive march, protest, do
1:03:44whatever you want, right? But do with
1:03:45love. Do with understanding that
1:03:47everyone else is a sum of their learned
1:03:49experiences. Can you understand that
1:03:51now? How can you help? How can you
1:03:53actually help the situation instead of
1:03:55becoming another opposing force? All
1:03:59right, so there there's the answer is no
1:04:02one's telling you to be passive. We're
1:04:04saying don't be ego-driven. You're
1:04:05complaining everybody else is ego
1:04:07driven. Don't you be ego-driven because
1:04:09it doesn't fit what you want. Can you be
1:04:11open enough the non-dual enough to o be
1:04:14open enough? And then by all means, for
1:04:16God's sakes, you have a responsibility.
1:04:18You're God dancing in his creation. All
1:04:20right? So dance, right? But don't dance
1:04:23in your name. Don't dance because you
1:04:25can't handle it. That's that's how I
1:04:27teach it.
1:04:30>> In wisdom untethered, as I mentioned, 23
1:04:33chapters, 200 questions, we've probably
1:04:36covered I don't know if I was trying to
1:04:38think of a number in my head, less than
1:04:4010% of all of the different topics that
1:04:44you touch on in the book. Towards the
1:04:46end you say in spirituality the most
1:04:50important thing is your motive.
1:04:53>> Yeah.
1:04:54>> Let's end by talking about that. What is
1:04:57the motive that you think will best
1:05:01support our spiritual growth?
1:05:04>> That's all we've talked about all night.
1:05:07The motive is I'm in here. I'm
1:05:10conscious.
1:05:12It ain't so good in here.
1:05:14>> [laughter]
1:05:14>> which is why I'm out there struggling
1:05:16with all the different things we talk
1:05:17about. All right. My motive,
1:05:21right, is to let go of whatever's stuck
1:05:25inside of me so that the natural flow
1:05:28can go up and you become a servant of
1:05:31God. Not my motive is not to become a
1:05:33servant of God. No, no. That I don't
1:05:35want you telling me you know what God
1:05:36wants. No, no, no. Your motive is to let
1:05:39go of what's keeping you from the higher
1:05:41state, right? and then the rest will
1:05:44take care of itself. All right? So I
1:05:46don't like the motive say I want I want
1:05:47to go to God. I want to this. I want
1:05:49that. I want to All right. I just I see
1:05:52this stuff in here. You do. We all do.
1:05:55All right. My motive and my intention
1:05:57every moment is to let go of what's
1:05:59holding me down and then let the rest
1:06:01take place naturally by itself. That's
1:06:04the best I can say.
1:06:06>> Been talking with Michael Singer this
1:06:08year. Wisdom untethered was released.
1:06:12the time for questions. It's a book you
1:06:15can sit with, read one question and its
1:06:18answer, apply it, start working with it.
1:06:21Sit for sit for a few moments and keep
1:06:24it right near [music] you. I love this
1:06:27book, Michael. Thank you so much for the
1:06:29work you and [music] your team did to
1:06:31put it together.
1:06:32>> Thank you, Jeffy.