Feminist vs Anti Feminist Women | PART 1

0:00This conversation [music] is often

0:01reduced to labels. In this episode of

0:04The Bridge, feminist and anti-feminist

0:06women sit face to face to explore

0:08[music] where their beliefs about

0:10womanhood, equality, and freedom align

0:13and where they don't. I'm your host, Dr.

0:16Michelle Da. Welcome [music] to The

0:19Bridge.

0:29Welcome ladies. Thank [music] you for

0:31being here today. Why don't you just go

0:32ahead and introduce yourselves?

0:34>> Um, hi, my name is Kyla Turner and uh I

0:37am a feminist.

0:39>> Hi, my name is Anne. Uh, I'm a feminist.

0:42>> I'm Bella. I'm a feminist.

0:44>> I'm Cesy. I'm a feminist. I'm Chelsea

0:46Gods. I'm a feminist.

0:48>> I'm Matrix and I'm anti-feminist.

0:51I'm Jada and I'm an anti-feminist. I'm

0:54Savannah and I'm anti-feminist.

0:56>> Hello everyone, I'm Maggie. I do not

0:58identify as a feminist. Hi, I'm Carmen

1:01JC and I am an anti-feminist.

1:04>> Thank you ladies. And the first prompt

1:05is women have more privileges today than

1:09men.

1:12Okay, anyone can anyone who feels

1:14strongly can speak. I think women in

1:17many ways have more privileges, but they

1:18also have more oppressions. And I think

1:19both of these things have to be weighed

1:20in when you're talking about like

1:22people's um social power, right? It's

1:24really important to understand that

1:25women face significant oppressions,

1:27significant issues. And so while some of

1:29the privileges that we can identify like

1:31courts tend to be more lenient to them,

1:32for example, there's um if there's a

1:35situation, for example, of of custody,

1:37women are going to be favored in that

1:38situation, they also have less choice

1:40with their bodies, right? They have uh

1:42issues where with hiring if they try to

1:44negotiate they'll be seen as costic and

1:46negative because there are kind of our

1:48stereotypical presumptions of how women

1:49have to be and these things impact women

1:53significantly which is why I would say

1:55they have less political power overall

1:57as well.

1:57>> Well, just one of those things was not

1:59true in regards to custody decisions in

2:02this country. In fact, men are more

2:04likely to receive custody of their

2:06children if they ask for it. If men seek

2:08custody in a court in the United States

2:10of America, statistically they are 90%

2:13likely to receive more custody or

2:15possibly even exactly what they were

2:17asking for. Uh I would just say that

2:19women are not more likely to receive

2:20custody of children in court. Men are

2:22women just are the ones who more receive

2:24custody in court.

2:25>> It's true. It's only four only 4% of men

2:28fight for custody of their children. And

2:30when they do, it's successful 90% of the

2:32time. So that would tell me that court

2:34actually favors men. I understand that

2:36there's like kind of this anecdote that

2:38family court does in fact favor women,

2:40but it just so happens that women are

2:42more likely to want custody of their

2:44children and that's where that mythology

2:46comes from.

2:46>> I would disagree. Um, you mentioned that

2:50men get custody when they ask for it and

2:55that presumes that women don't have to

2:58ask for it. Why doesn't it begin equal

3:02and men not having to ask for custody if

3:06they are actually full parents just like

3:10the mom?

3:10>> Sure. That's a great question. I think

3:12it's really important that we have a

3:13conversation that our laws are written

3:15by men. Our courts are ruled by men. So

3:18if you have some concern about what a

3:20court presumes, well, that's a

3:21conversation to have with men, too.

3:22They're the ones who wrote the laws.

3:24>> I saw you shaking your head. I I just

3:26know that I my dad got custody of me

3:29because he asked for it and it's just

3:31it's an personal experience. It's not

3:34everything, but

3:34>> Sorry. Go ahead.

3:35>> I completely agree that like all the

3:36laws that we have, we can vote now, but

3:38we're still in a system that was

3:39designed by men. So, a lot of the issues

3:41that we have that men have are because

3:44the decisions that they made.

3:45>> But why would you start out assuming

3:4750/50 like that both parents want the

3:49kid? Because in a lot of cases, like men

3:51just aren't asking. So wouldn't you want

3:52to make the assumption that like the

3:54parent who pursues custody is the one

3:56who one feels empowered to and two wants

3:59to cuz I agree like there is a system

4:01set up where men probably don't feel

4:03empowered to ask for custody of their

4:05children but I think that they should

4:07first of all but it there is a problem

4:09like you can't just say oh it's fully

4:10the court system's fault. I think there

4:12is a culture that encourages young men

4:15to just say, "Oh, well, well, that's a

4:18woman's job. That's, you know, not my

4:20job. Not, you know, the if the woman

4:22wants the kid, she can have the kid."

4:23And I don't know why a court would

4:25assume that a father just wants to be a

4:27father.

4:28>> I was going to say, so wouldn't that

4:30culture that would put that on men be a

4:33result of feminism? Because men would

4:35probably prefer to have the women in

4:37their household and also women are the

4:40ones that are more likely to engage in

4:42divorce. So men want to stay with these

4:44women.

4:44>> Engage in divorce.

4:45>> Yeah.

4:46>> Like start divorce.

4:48>> Trying to say.

4:49>> Yeah. And men are the ones that actually

4:54stay because they want their family

4:56together. it is women that actually

4:58disrupt the family and then they get

5:00upset with the results of a disrupted

5:02family

5:03>> or they just want to keep the woman so

5:05that she's running the household. I

5:06don't know if it's necessarily they I I

5:08don't know men can't function as well

5:10without women as women can without a

5:12man. So I feel like when he hears

5:14divorce is on the table it's going to

5:16disrupt his life a lot more and I feel

5:19like that's really what they're thinking

5:20about.

5:20>> We also so women do initiate divorce

5:23more. The issue is that they also

5:24initiate couples therapy. They also

5:26initiate seeking every single other

5:28alternative before divorce at a

5:30basically the same rates as we see with

5:32divorce rates, right? So yes, women are

5:34divorcing. The issue is that like men

5:36accepting a loveless marriage with

5:38children who are miserable isn't isn't

5:41like this thing that we should hold up

5:43and go see isn't this better? It's like

5:44actually all of this is unhealthy,

5:46right? It's unhealthy that men have been

5:48socialized in such a way that they don't

5:49think of themselves as fathers first,

5:51that they aren't asking for it, right?

5:52Whereas in this way, this is where women

5:54have been taught of in for both good and

5:57bad that you are a mom, right? And I

5:58think we default to that which is

6:00harmful to women. But we have to

6:01acknowledge that like women are seeking

6:03offramps in these relationships where

6:06divorce happens. And the same issues

6:07that they say for divorce are happening

6:09over and over and over again. And this

6:10is a this is a systemic issue. It's not

6:12just women want to get out of their

6:14marriages. It's that women won't

6:16tolerate a loveless empty marriage,

6:18which is not even good for children. So

6:20a loveless empty marriage, what is how

6:22does the system contribute to what

6:24happens in your marriage?

6:25>> Well, the way that we raise our boys,

6:27right, for example, is we teach them

6:29that your emotions are bad. So think

6:31about the way that we raise young boys.

6:32The most common way that young boys

6:33express their feelings. It's called

6:35externalizing. We see this in clinical

6:36data. The way that boys express their

6:38feelings, we teach them the only emotion

6:40you're allowed to have as a boy is

6:41anger. That's the only one allowed. But

6:42if you have anger, go to your room.

6:44Nobody wants to look at you or deal with

6:45you. And so what we've done is we've

6:47taught men that their feelings aren't

6:49okay. That if they have them, they're

6:51isolated and weak for having them. And

6:53so the only alternative for them is

6:55anger or anhidonia, a complete like

6:57emptiness and vacuousness. And so in

6:59this way, this is how society's

7:00contributing to this because the

7:01presumptions we place onto our children

7:03that set a course and script for them

7:05that destroys their relationships. And

7:07men are reporting this. They're lonely,

7:09they have less friends, and their

7:10marriages don't work out. Men are saying

7:12this, not just women.

7:13>> Really?

7:13>> Well, women do say it, you know. So I I

7:16mean I don't I don't understand why it's

7:18always like the men the men because the

7:20men aren't emotional because the men

7:22aren't this like the women are the ones

7:23that want to leave. So

7:24>> the women want to leave and maybe we

7:26should ask them why because men are

7:28responsible for 90% of the violent crime

7:30in the US. Like we always talk about

7:32women and what we should be doing. I

7:34really can't I I we I talk about

7:36feminism a lot and I get so sick of it

7:37because I don't know why we're not

7:38talking about men. We're always focusing

7:39on women and what we're we should be

7:40doing and what we shouldn't be doing.

7:41What is with men? They're responsible

7:44for 95% of domestic violence, 93% of

7:46sexual assaults and pedophilia, 88% of

7:48homicides, 85% serial killings, 98% of

7:51mass shootings. Could I go on? 77% of

7:54assaults. They are responsible for so

7:56much. And then we sit here and want to

7:57make women feel bad for wanting to leave

7:59that man. I don't know why we always are

8:01focusing on women all the time.

8:02>> Well, because their solution is always

8:03to leave. It's never just

8:04>> not always. Sometimes they want to have

8:06therapy and the man doesn't want to do

8:07that.

8:07>> Yeah. Therapy is such BS because you go

8:09to a couple's therapist and they say,

8:10"Oh, yeah. You should leave your

8:11husband.

8:13solution. Yes, that is that is couples

8:14that the solution. No, and I will not.

8:16So, you're just making assumptions.

8:17>> I have heard so many stories. I I've

8:19seen it. I've seen it online therapist.

8:22>> Yeah. If you have a marriage and couples

8:23counselor and they are just recommending

8:25divorce, which is not true. I've gone to

8:27marriage counseling and they didn't

8:28recommend divorce. If they're doing that

8:30off the hop, that would be unethical.

8:32You can actually report them for that.

8:33They're trained for more than this. A

8:35marriage counselor got trained to see

8:38marriages be happy, right? the the thing

8:40that they want is a fixed rectified

8:43marriage. Sometimes that can happen for

8:45a number of reasons. However, the idea

8:47that marriage counselors are just

8:48telling women to divorce husbands is so

8:51far from any of the literature that

8:52reports on this, so far from the ethics

8:55these people are trained on is basically

8:56taking an entire field of care workers

8:58and saying you actually just want to

9:00destroy the thing that you care for,

9:01which is just it's just not true.

9:03>> Okay, I need to ask a question to both

9:05sides. So ladies on this side, do you

9:08believe that the gender gap pay is still

9:12real?

9:12>> No, it's not. That's been debunked so

9:14many times.

9:15>> Okay.

9:17And ladies on this side, I'm sorry. I

9:19want to hear from you on this side.

9:21>> I think it's real. If you just look at

9:23statistics, a lot of people say like,

9:25"Oh, well, women are just choosing

9:26different jobs." And it's like we're

9:27raised to idealize different jobs. But

9:30even then, it's like women, if you have

9:32a child, you're now also working and you

9:35have a child, you're not going to work

9:36as much. So, it's like that's to blame.

9:38The the gender pay gap is huge. And the

9:40whole I think it's like 75 cents on the

9:42dollar is just for white women. It's

9:44less for Hispanic women. It's less for

9:45black women. Like the it it changes.

9:48It's very rare.

9:48>> But you think that they're choosing like

9:50hospitality jobs because they were

9:52raised that way or because women just

9:53naturally like those jobs?

9:55>> Well, like let's say like nursing.

9:56Nursing used to be a male only

9:57profession. They wouldn't let women work

9:59on women's bodies at all. Became more

10:01female dominated and now men don't even

10:04want to be in that profession. So then

10:05they lowered the pay because it's a

10:06woman's job. Same thing with teaching.

10:08It used to be just a male only job. We

10:09wouldn't let women teach. Women got into

10:12it. Suddenly the pay drops for it. Well,

10:14and not to mention in addition to things

10:16like the gender pay gap, we also now see

10:18that women majority professions are

10:21being attacked education wise as the

10:24Trump administration just made it so

10:26that you can't consider nursing a

10:28professional degree. Aiology is no

10:30longer a professional degree. Yeah. And

10:31though and making it harder for you to

10:32get student loans because they've maxed

10:34out how much you can get in student

10:35loans. And all of these affect women

10:37more than it affects men. Well, if

10:39you're a chiropractor, great job. That's

10:40still a professional degree because

10:42that's a job that most men would seek.

10:44But if you're going to be a nurse, well,

10:45that's a job most women would seek. Now,

10:47you don't get to have a loan for the

10:49amount that you need. That's an example

10:50of a gender pay gap. That's an example

10:52of

10:53>> like what happens when you're taking

10:55opportunity away from women and women

10:57not making as much or being given as

10:58much in a loan or whatever.

11:00>> Do you do you on this side feel that you

11:03can support women and not identify with

11:05the feminist movement?

11:07>> Not to feel like pants.

11:09My mom went to school. My mom went to

11:12school. And when until middle school,

11:14she had to wear a skirt every single

11:15day. That is one generation. That is my

11:17mother. If you're wearing pants, you get

11:19to wear those in public because people

11:21like my mother were part of the feminist

11:24movement.

11:25>> I I respectfully disagree here, right?

11:27So like I worked in an addiction center

11:29that was an addiction counselor formerly

11:31was for women. It was a Christian

11:32center, right? What you'll often see is

11:34that some of the most like dominant

11:35nonprofits for women are often religious

11:38in nature and that tends to lean towards

11:39like the right side. Most of the people

11:41that I worked with didn't identify as

11:42feminists. They obviously helped women.

11:44I also obviously disagreed with them on

11:46a lot of stuff. I think that when women

11:48dislike feminism, it's because they have

11:50issues with specific feminists or they

11:53in my mind have like some misin, right?

11:55But like of course you can be like a

11:57person who cares about women and not

11:58identify as a label. Uh I would just say

12:01come to my side like uh you probably do

12:03agree fundamentally with my presumptions

12:06about uh what feminism should be for and

12:08what it is.

12:09>> Anyone have anything to say about that

12:11on this side

12:11>> as far as being a feminist and

12:13supporting women?

12:15>> I don't think the feminist movement

12:16supports women at all. I think it

12:18actually harms them. It's told us that

12:19sexual exploitation is empowering and

12:21that we should kill our offspring if

12:23it's an inconvenience to our life and

12:25that marriage and family are not

12:26important anymore. I mean, it's

12:27completely destroyed everything that's

12:28been unique about womanhood.

12:30>> So, the alternative is like, "Let me get

12:32my ass beat, take my Xanax, and raise

12:34these kids when I don't want to." Like,

12:35what's the alternative for women who

12:36don't aren't happy at home? Like, that's

12:38what I don't

12:39>> Women are pill popping more now than

12:41they were in the 50s. They're more

12:42depressed than they were. Yes. Yes. This

12:44is completely

12:45>> And men are four times Women Yes. two

12:47times more likely to be on

12:48anti-depressants than men. Men are four

12:49times more likely to kill themselves.

12:50>> Why do you think that we're more likely

12:52to be on anti-depressants?

12:54>> Uh, capitalism, the way the world is,

12:55the economy. I'll tell you right now,

12:56the economy controls the mood of the

12:58country. The mood of the country sucks

13:00because the economy, capitalism is the

13:02actual enemy here, not feminism.

13:04Feminism was just a human rights

13:06movement like the civil rights movement.

13:08Black people should have equal rights.

13:09What's the difference between a woman

13:10and a black person?

13:12>> I just it's just a matter of no, you

13:15want equal rights as a human because you

13:17should have them. I should have them

13:19too, right? It was just a human rights

13:21movement. It was focused on the gender

13:23and then we focused on the race and we

13:25all came up. I don't know why everyone

13:26can't come up together.

13:27>> Yeah. I feel like there's a huge

13:29misnomer on what feminism is. Feminism

13:31is not me telling you to go abort your

13:34force your for your firstborn son. I

13:37don't care what you do with your body.

13:38Feminism is you have the opportunity to

13:40do what you want because of you have a

13:42bank card because of feminism. You get

13:43to wear pants because of feminism. You

13:45get to have a job because of feminism.

13:46You get to get out of the house if you

13:48want to because of feminism. This is not

13:49about like trying to control your life.

13:51There is more room for people who are

13:53anti-feminists in the world of feminists

13:55than there is in for people like me in

13:57your world. I don't care if a person

13:59wants to go have children their whole

14:01life and that's what they want to do.

14:03Most of my friends are stay-at-home

14:04moms. Many of my extremely liberal

14:07friends are stay-at-home mothers. And do

14:08you think I denigrate their decision to

14:10sacrifice their life for their children?

14:12Absolutely not. I'm a mother myself. But

14:14I also want to have the opportunity to

14:16work if I want to because for me that's

14:18where I find happiness. There is space

14:21for you in our movement, but there is no

14:24space for us in yours. We're inclusive.

14:27Feminism is not telling you what to do

14:29with your life. Feminism is letting you

14:31get married. Do whatever you want with

14:32your life.

14:33>> Sorry. I [laughter] agree though. I

14:35agree. Do whatever you want with your

14:36life. Feminism is letting you do what

14:37you want with your life. And I don't

14:38want to tell you not to get married when

14:40you're 19 and pop out seven kids if

14:42that's a thing that's going to be happy

14:43for you. But I want to offer people the

14:45opportunity that they can also do

14:47something else if that's what makes them

14:49happy.

14:49>> So I did I did get a sense that someone

14:53on this side felt like this side was

14:55feeling or or was speaking in a way that

14:57felt racist. Can you speak to that?

14:59>> So when you said what's the diff what

15:02something about the difference between

15:03women and black people

15:05>> as far as human rights?

15:06>> Can I speak or you going to keep cutting

15:07me off?

15:08>> Yeah, go for it.

15:08>> Right. Thank you. Um, that's like one of

15:12my main issues with feminism is like

15:14even Susan B. Anthony like she she

15:17compared white women to the black man

15:19and she felt a way that black men got

15:22the right to vote before white women and

15:24that's like also something that I don't

15:26agree with because white women think

15:28they're superior to black men. You know

15:30why why do you need the right to vote

15:32before our men? That's the question I

15:35ask.

15:35>> I'm saying everyone should have it at

15:36the same time when it happened. And I'm

15:39saying everyone is a human.

15:40>> It it was just your age or your gender.

15:43This is the thing. I feel like you

15:44should be able to live your life the way

15:46you want. That's the feminist movement.

15:47>> But why did you have to bring up black

15:49people? That's what I'm trying to say.

15:51I'm comparing performative, babe.

15:53>> Okay. I'm comparing human rights

15:55movements. Black people exist. Women

15:57exist. You don't have to speak on it.

15:59Both of them. Don't speak on it.

16:00>> Should Why? It's a human rights

16:01movement. That's what we're talking

16:02about.

16:02>> It's not productive. It's I'm telling

16:04you to talk about human rights movement

16:06and compare the two when they're just

16:08about equalizing things for people so we

16:10can all come up.

16:10>> I'm letting you know that it's

16:12offensive. I'm telling you that it's

16:13offensive.

16:13>> It's offensive for me to say that women

16:15should have the same rights as black

16:17people.

16:17>> Yep. It is.

16:18>> It's offensive for me to say that all

16:20humans should have the same rights as

16:21everyone.

16:22>> That we should all said there's a

16:23difference between everyone.

16:25>> Right now I'm saying everyone I don't

16:27give

16:28>> sorry what your skin color is, what's

16:30between your legs. I don't care about

16:31any of that. I want everyone to be able

16:33to make the decisions they want for

16:35themselves and have the same rights. I

16:37don't want you to have any less rights

16:38than me. I don't want this guy to have

16:40any less rights than me or more.

16:42Everyone should be even.

16:43>> That's up for me to say.

16:45>> Can I just ask I'm just curious what's

16:47racist about the statement that I want

16:49women to have the same rights as black

16:51people. I'm just Because you said that's

16:52racist. I'm just curious what's racist.

16:53>> Well, because first of all, you guys

16:55classify women as second sex, right? You

16:57guys think women, this comes from the

17:00feminist movement. We look at women and

17:03we say, "Oh, we're treated as

17:05secondclass citizens. We're treated less

17:07than men." And so it is, it's a little

17:10bit dehumanizing to say, for one, you

17:12want to fight for women to have better

17:13rights. And then to look at black

17:15people, which isn't just black women,

17:17that's black men, our men. That we need

17:19to be, you know, we expect our men to be

17:20strong, you know, and for you to say,

17:22"Oh, well, women deserve the same

17:24rights. Black people should get the same

17:25rights as women." It's there's this

17:28culture in black culture where we our

17:31men are constantly emasculated, right?

17:33So, I'm very very like one I mean my

17:35husband's a black man, so I'm very

17:37intentional about how we speak about our

17:38black men and I don't like that.

17:40>> I was talking about just black.

17:42>> But but you need to be mindful, okay?

17:43Since you're a liberal and that's what

17:44y'all are about, you need to be mindful.

17:45And I didn't say anything racist.

17:48>> I didn't say anything like that at all.

17:49You're misconrue. No, you are getting my

17:52twisted.

17:52>> Thank you for Did Did she answer your

17:54question about what offended her? I now

17:56feel like I like and I'm I'm not trying

17:58to be

17:58>> I know you're trying to actually

17:59understand

18:01of the conversation offended her and I

18:03think it wasn't you. She said something.

18:05>> No, no, no. I understand it wasn't me.

18:07I'm trying to understand. You said the

18:08statement, I want women to have the same

18:10rights as black people. I'm trying to

18:11understand what's racist about that. I

18:14think

18:14>> because you wouldn't say that about a

18:16white man when

18:17>> it's the men part I think that got added

18:19to

18:20>> you don't have to say women and black

18:21people and then not speak on like black

18:25like what about the black men you know

18:26what I mean like I don't understand why

18:28you do that. Can you can someone speak

18:30to this? Like I'm not crazy. Did anyone

18:32else did any other ladies on the set

18:34feel that same way about that statement?

18:36>> I think she's just kind of referring to

18:39like women should have the same rights

18:40as everybody. Why do you have to single

18:42out black people or black men?

18:44>> The reason I see black men have the same

18:46rights as everybody right now and women

18:48have the same rights as everyone. We're

18:49equal right now. So, how far do feminism

18:52have to go before you guys see that

18:54we're equal?

18:55>> But you want to some I'm not talking

18:57about you guys because I don't know

18:58where you stand as far as anti-feminism.

19:00There are people that are working

19:01actively working to take our rights away

19:04so that we are backsliding into time.

19:06>> That's like what abortion

19:1019th. [laughter]

19:10Yeah. Getting rid of the women's right

19:12to vote.

19:12>> The 19th is never going to be repealed.

19:14I think people are trolling. Never say

19:15never. But she's right. I meant everyone

19:17should have the same rights. And I only

19:19brought up black people because of the

19:21civil rights movement happening around

19:23the same time. These were human rights

19:24movements. We all tried to come up

19:26together, which I love. And I think we

19:28all should have the same rights. I don't

19:30think that's a

19:31>> equal. Yeah. I I don't think you had ill

19:34intent. I don't think you had ill

19:35intent. I'm just like, we need to be

19:36careful about how we speak when we're

19:39bringing in black people cuz we're

19:40always constantly attaching every civil

19:43rights kind of movement to black

19:46identity. Like we're always the LGBT

19:48everything. It's always connected to

19:49black people. And so I'm just like, no.

19:51That's what I'm saying is no. I don't

19:53think that you were trying to be like

19:54evil about it. But I'm just saying be

19:56careful because y'all have a tendency to

19:58always group black people into every

20:00single thing and it's just not always

20:01the time to speak on it. I have noticed

20:03that feminists and myself included in

20:05this tend to get uncomfortable with

20:07conversations about race. We don't know

20:08how to talk about race very well. And

20:11even just this whole debacle that just

20:12happened was just kind of like affirming

20:14of that of like we need to get better at

20:15it cuz

20:16>> Thank you. That's what I'm saying. Like

20:18just don't bring it up.

20:19>> Hi loves. It's me again, Dr. Michelle

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22:18will bless you as much as they have

22:20blessed me. The next prompt is, "No

22:22career will give women as much joy and

22:25fulfillment as raising children."

22:29Okay. Okay.

22:32Oh, maybe someone who hasn't spoken. I

22:34mean, I'm a Christian, so I as much you

22:37guys know all your statistics and

22:39everything about things, it's more that

22:41it conflicts with my Christian belief so

22:42much, right? So, I believe that we're

22:45here to reproduce. Um, that's one of the

22:48things in the Bible, the first thing

22:49about men and women is that they were

22:50brought together and then it was to be

22:52fruitful and multiply. So I think one of

22:54the most valuable things we can do as

22:56women in society is to uh continue

22:59reproducing and grow up the raise raise

23:02the next generation. So that's really

23:04important. And then I'm kind of seeing

23:06how this generation is being raised in a

23:11lot of single mother households and

23:13stuff. And so I really want to

23:14prioritize bringing back the nuclear

23:17family men in the homes and us in

23:19traditional roles. And that's my belief.

23:22So I said yes, but it's with a huge

23:24caveat, which is that both genders

23:27report greater life satisfaction when

23:30they have children. Like children's good

23:31for everyone. And this idea that we're

23:33lumping it to women is part of my

23:34problem with this, right? So do women

23:37experience like greater life

23:38satisfaction? Yes. So do men. Except who

23:40do we expect to be home? Women. We're

23:42we're like penalizing men and women. For

23:45example, if a woman wants to have a

23:46career, it feels like your side is

23:49saying, "Well, that wouldn't be good."

23:50Okay. she's also going to get life

23:51satisfaction from her career. In fact,

23:53you there's a lot of acute happiness

23:54that often comes attached to a career.

23:56And the issue is that like men and women

23:59should have the agency to choose both of

24:00these things because they should both

24:02have access to it. Right? There isn't a

24:03reason why we should tell men have to

24:06stay home. You must stay at work. You

24:08won't get a relationship with your

24:09children. You get a relationship with

24:10your kids for 6 hours a day. I don't

24:12think that that's better. Right?

24:13Speaking of the capitalism, I think if

24:15you look at models that have like

24:1632-hour work weeks, you have greater

24:18happiness amongst men men, women, and

24:20children because both parents are home

24:22with their children. And frankly, if a

24:24woman wants to not have a child, that's

24:26fine. That's her prerogative to do,

24:28right? You can still have great life

24:29satisfaction and happiness from not

24:31having a child.

24:32>> I just want to say one thing cuz she

24:33brought up capitalism. The nuclear

24:35family unit. I love the idea. Honestly,

24:37my dad was a stay-at-home dad for a

24:38while, then my mom was. They like

24:40switched on and off a little bit, which

24:41I loved having my dad at home. I thought

24:42it was dope and I think it would be

24:44awesome if we could have a parent in the

24:46household. But the reality is feminism

24:48stopped that. It was capitalism. 1950s

24:50nuclear family unit existed because we

24:52were taxing the rich at 90%. We don't

24:54tax them anymore. Amazon and Tesla, they

24:56paid zero dollars in taxes. So I wish

24:59you could all be your trades that you

25:01want to be. I just don't know if your

25:03man will be able to afford the house to

25:05put you in the kitchen. You know what

25:06I'm saying? like we have to really focus

25:08on the capitalism part of it because if

25:10you want to be able to have a woman at

25:13home with your kids, you have to be able

25:14to afford to do that. And a lot of

25:16people right now can't afford to even if

25:17they want to. So before attacking

25:19feminism, we should be eating the rich.

25:22We should be attacking billionaires and

25:23taking back the tax money so that you

25:25can have your nuclear nuclear family

25:27unit.

25:27>> I wanted to speak on this one. Could you

25:29repeat the prompt for me, please?

25:31>> Yes. No career would give women as much

25:33joy and fulfillment as raising children.

25:36Okay. So, I'm probably the oldest one

25:39here. Just turned 50 last month. So, as

25:42a golden girl who um has raised boys, um

25:46I'm a boy mom who um was a

25:51professional woman and that cost me my

25:54marriage, thinking that the career was

25:57more important than the family. And so

26:00my position is from learning from the

26:03mistakes that I made to help younger

26:07women make decisions that they will be

26:10happy with when they're my age. And you

26:12brought up the word acute. There's

26:15nothing wrong with working. And I do

26:16want to say we are not expecting the man

26:20exclusively works and the woman is

26:22exclusively home. Both of my parents

26:25worked and took time. You know, you you

26:27work it out for your family with your

26:29husband. That's all that matters. It

26:31doesn't

26:31>> have the nuclear family unit.

26:33>> Nuclear family means mom, dad, sister,

26:35brother or whatever it is. It doesn't

26:37mean only dad works and only mom is in

26:39the kitchen. Generations ago, mom may

26:42have side businesses, do other things,

26:44you know, sew, you know, bake, whatever

26:46it is, you do what's best for the

26:47family. All I'm saying as a woman with

26:50lived experience who has been an

26:52executive, who has had the big bonuses

26:54and all of that, I promise you having a

26:56son that is a Marine, working with my

26:59ex-husband to raise two boys that we are

27:01very proud of, one that's going to the

27:03Air Force, nothing will give you that

27:06fulfillment than being a mother. I'm

27:08telling you now, the acute um the acute

27:12uh accomplishments are great, but legacy

27:15trumps everything. Well, this is this is

27:16the important thing of like fourth wave

27:18feminism especially is we want women to

27:20have agency to choose.

27:21>> Absolutely.

27:21>> And if you want to choose raising your

27:23kids, that's awesome. And if you want to

27:25choose a career, that's fine. I want

27:28even women to choose choices that might

27:30be worse than the long because agency

27:31and choice is so you want to talk about

27:34biblical. God gave us the ability to

27:36choose,

27:36>> right? If you think that this is that

27:39this is feminism is maximizing the

27:42capacity for women to choose, including

27:44what you might view as wrong, right?

27:47Because the the problem is that if you

27:49limit women's ability to choose, all you

27:51do is you just make good behavior the

27:54necessity of survival. That's not noble.

27:56That's not anything that we strive for.

27:58Choice is fundamental to feminism

28:01because it means you get to choose good

28:03or bad. But if you're good because you

28:05just have to be, that isn't meaningful.

28:07So, we want you guys to have kids. We

28:08want us to have kids. We just want women

28:10to be able to choose. And there is

28:11increasingly pressure to pressure women.

28:13We want to talk about the waging and

28:15earnings gap. The earning gap exists for

28:17two reasons. One of the biggest reasons

28:19is because women will choose professions

28:22and have plateau careers during

28:24motherhood. That's the main reason that

28:26women earn less. The second reason is

28:27because they tend to work less hours.

28:29Again, because typically they choose to

28:31stay home with children. And I'm not

28:33saying career is all of this stuff, but

28:34if you want to like get comprehensive

28:36here and you want to talk about

28:37happiness and meaning and choice, what

28:39we're also doing to women, which is

28:41saying you get to choose a career, but

28:43you're kind of a bad woman if you choose

28:45career over your children. We're not

28:46doing that to men. Men are choosing

28:48their careers over their children every

28:50day because we've told men that their

28:52value is tied to the GDP output that

28:54they provide for their family. I think

28:56that's just as anti-biblical. Don't talk

28:58about biblical. It's not the nuclear

28:59family that's biblical. It's

29:00intergenerational families and villages.

29:02And what we're telling men is leave your

29:04kids, have nothing else, work every day

29:07of your life so that when you're 50 and

29:08retire, your kids don't know you and

29:10they resent you. That's what we're

29:11telling people to do right now. As a

29:12feminist, I'm saying no. Both should

29:15choose. Everyone should choose,

29:17including men and including women. I

29:19would argue that men get satisfaction

29:20from providing. I think that is their

29:22ultimate instinct. And I'm not saying

29:24working themselves to death. I mean,

29:25unfortunately, like the I think the

29:2740-hour work week is stupid. I think

29:28entrepreneurship is great for for men

29:30because they can decide kind of what to

29:32do with their time. But I think

29:33innately, and my husband can attest to

29:35this, men want to provide for their

29:37family and women tend to like to nurture

29:40their family. They tend to like to be

29:41with the kids more. So that's why

29:43they're choosing more part-time jobs.

29:45They're choosing maybe running a

29:46business. They're choosing paying

29:47hobbies. That is why that they do that.

29:49And I would also argue that women are

29:51not being pressured to stay home. I

29:53think women are being pressured right

29:54now in society to choose career over

29:57family and over marriage.

29:58>> Well, this is completely unrelated since

30:00we're not going to be um ping ponging

30:02back and forth now. [laughter]

30:04Uh for an example, so just so you guys

30:06know, I was raised in a very traditional

30:09Christian religion. I was raised Mormon

30:11and from the age of birth until 18 years

30:14old, I was told that the thing that was

30:16going to make me the very happiest was

30:18having a family. uh that is something

30:20that is told to you in these kind of

30:22patriarchal religions is that the thing

30:24that is going to fulfill you is having a

30:26family. The thing that is going to

30:27fulfill you is taking care of a man's

30:29needs. The thing that's going to fulfill

30:30you is having a husband. And the reality

30:32is every person on the planet has some

30:36general idea about what's going to make

30:37them happy. And I refuse to believe that

30:40having children is going to be the

30:42ultimate goal for every woman on this

30:43planet or every man on this planet. And

30:46I think that the idea of putting people

30:49into small boxes and saying women are

30:51women. Therefore, the thing that's going

30:53to make you happiest is popping a baby

30:55out of your baby hole, I think is

30:56dangerous because I was raised in a

30:58culture that told me that what was going

31:00to make me happiest was having a baby

31:01and popping it out of my baby hole. This

31:04last summer, I went to a Mormon event,

31:07which is kind of unusual for me because

31:08I've been out of the church for a really

31:10long time now. And I was having a

31:12conversation with a woman who she had

31:13gotten married when she was 20, had done

31:15everything traditional. She was a trad

31:17wife, you know, worked with, had her

31:19kids, her husband worked, she stayed at

31:21home. We're having a conversation and

31:23our kids are jumping on the

31:24together. And she looks over at me and

31:25she's like, "Don't you just hate our

31:26children?" And I was like, "Excuse me,

31:28what?" She's like, "Oh yeah, my sister

31:29and I talk about all the time how awful

31:32being a mom is. Don't you just hate it?"

31:34I don't hate being a mom. You know why I

31:36don't hate being a mom? Because I chose

31:38to be a mother. Because the first time I

31:40had children, I was 30 years old. The

31:42first time I had a child, and I'm proud

31:43to be a mom. I'm proud of everyone who

31:45chooses to be a mom. I don't want

31:46everyone to choose that. But this woman

31:48who I was talking to had a hatred of

31:50motherhood. And her hatred of motherhood

31:52came from a place where she wasn't given

31:54another choice. The reason why she

31:56resented what her life had become was

31:58because she had been told from birth

32:00that the only thing she was to become

32:02was to be a mother. Not me. I I was

32:05whatever I wanted to be. And I chose to

32:07be a mom because that was a joy that I

32:09chose for myself. But I want you to know

32:11that I find children to be joyful. But

32:13not everyone does. And teaching every

32:15woman or every man that what's going to

32:17fulfill them in their life is children I

32:19actually think is harmful because what

32:21happens when it turns out you have a kid

32:22and it doesn't fulfill you. Well then

32:24you're a mom hanging out with me

32:26watching our kids jump on a trampoline

32:28thinking to yourself, I really hate

32:29being a mother and I would like to avoid

32:32that because I think that there is joy

32:33in children. I think there is joy in

32:34that. but it's not for everyone and I

32:36don't want to teach every woman or every

32:38man that that's how we should be.

32:41>> The same could be said about feminism,

32:43right? So, like kind of what she was

32:44saying, I almost lost my marriage from

32:46prioritizing a career and I had gained

32:49very masculine traits. Like I was just I

32:52wasn't serving my family. I wasn't

32:54paying attention to my family's needs. I

32:56wasn't prioritizing have having a child.

32:58I'm going now into my 30s and finally at

33:00a position where I'm like I'm all in to

33:03serve my home the past year. So I wasted

33:06all this time chasing after a career and

33:09once again almost ended up a divorced

33:11woman.

33:11>> But that has nothing to do with

33:12feminism, right? Because feminism

33:14allowed her the opportunity to have a

33:15career and the opportunity to have a

33:17child and she chose what was best for

33:19her. And she may feel that that's what

33:20ended her marriage, but I don't believe

33:22that that's what ended her marriage

33:23because her husband was involved in that

33:24too. There were two people in your

33:26marriage. you know, he could have

33:27probably been involved. If he felt that

33:29that was a problem, then maybe that's a

33:30conversation that could have been worked

33:31out. But I don't believe feminism is why

33:33your marriage ended. I don't believe

33:35that for one second. You're allowed to

33:37have kids in feminism. You're allowed to

33:39raise a family in feminism. You're

33:40allowed to. Of course, you are. I have

33:42kids.

33:42>> It's like um what when you It's about

33:45children. It's about serving others.

33:47It's it's about serving your home.

33:49Feminism is very just it's me. It's

33:51about uh prioritizing my needs, my

33:54happiness, right? It's about going and

33:56getting things done that will fulfill me

33:58like a job and a career.

34:00>> I was just wondering like you're saying

34:02feminism pushed me to get a job, right?

34:05Like or do you think it might be more of

34:07the system that we have? We need money

34:09to survive.

34:10>> I think that pushed you more to getting

34:12a job than having equal rights.

34:15>> Um,

34:16>> did you need to get the job?

34:18>> I don't want to interrogate your guys'

34:19lives. Like you guys get to make the

34:20choices that you guys want to make. The

34:22problem is when you take your story and

34:24you tell other people that that has to

34:25be their story, right? So when you say I

34:28regret it because I that's fine. That's

34:31fine that that's your story. What do you

34:32guys think is the number regret one

34:34regret of men who are dying in hospice?

34:37>> Not spending enough time with their

34:38children.

34:38>> Why don't [clears throat] they?

34:39>> Because they sacrifice.

34:41>> Because they're expected to provide men.

34:43>> So if both are staying home though,

34:45who's going to provide? It's

34:46>> the issue is that both can provide.

34:47That's what almost all families are

34:48doing. So if both of them are gone, then

34:50daycare is raising the children.

34:52>> Well, that's an unfortunate issue that

34:53we could go back to capitalism. We can

34:54talk about issues as far as like

34:56providing UBI or providing free

34:58healthcare or allowing villages to raise

35:00children. I'm with you on these things.

35:02But the idea is what you're trying to do

35:03is saying men must provide and you are

35:06dooming men and women to the same lives

35:08that they have reported saying I'm

35:10miserable. So many women for example,

35:12there is do you guys know about the gray

35:14divorce rates? So divorce rates amongst

35:17boomer parents is exploding because all

35:20those women and men stayed in a marriage

35:22because they had to raise their kids.

35:23And what you see is high levels of

35:25regret, particularly from the women.

35:27What I want is a world where people get

35:29to understand that they can just sort

35:31the relationship anyway they want. If

35:32the man thinks it's better for him to be

35:34out 60% of the time and she's home for

35:36the rest of the time, that's fine if

35:38they want to make that choice. The

35:39problem is you're prescribing it to men

35:41and I'm not going to do that. You're

35:43prescribing it to women. I'm not going

35:44to do that.

35:45>> What did I prescribe?

35:46>> You're telling them that a man should be

35:48a provider and that a woman should be

35:49>> I know. I said that they get innate

35:50fulfillment from that.

35:51>> It's a prescription. It's saying it's

35:52fundamental to who you are.

35:54>> So, what is your solution? Because if

35:55the man's [laughter] not providing and

35:57the woman's not providing,

35:58>> who's who's going to

36:00>> We can talk about economics if you want.

36:01>> We're not going to talk about it right

36:02now. [laughter]

36:06>> And the next prompt is the sexual

36:08revolution has devalued women and made

36:11them infinitely less happy.

36:15Yes. Yes. Yes. No. No. Maybe. Okay.

36:17Whoever feels strongly about it can

36:18speak.

36:19>> I think that this term

36:22calling it a sexual revolution is quite

36:25strange and it distorts history. If you

36:27look at the history of like the way that

36:29people engaged in sex. It really has not

36:32quite changed much. The only thing that

36:34we've seen change for the most part is

36:36the rise in social media and the rise of

36:38seeking out sexual relationships through

36:40that. Because you can go back through

36:42history and look at like the Greeks and

36:43the Romans, they were very openly

36:45sexual. People were having sex in

36:46public. Like it was not a private thing.

36:48It never was. And it really only became

36:51like this private thing when you look at

36:54like the rise of like industrialism in

36:57the United States. And you see sex

36:59become like commodified and it became

37:01like a a dirty thing with also the rise

37:04of you know like religion and um

37:07Protestantism in the US also kind of

37:09demonized it and it became a weapon used

37:11against women. And I think that we've

37:13seen the pendulum go from like being

37:16hypersexual in the past where sex wasn't

37:18like a commodified thing or it wasn't a

37:22um demonized thing to kind of going

37:25through this period of like demonizing

37:27people for exploring their sexuality or

37:29things like that. And now we've kind of

37:30come back out the other side where some

37:32people abuse it, some people don't. And

37:34I think that you have to have

37:35moderation. I've said this before, like

37:38I as far as devaluing women, I think

37:40that the the problem with devaluing

37:42women who are open about their sexuality

37:44or commodify their own sexuality and

37:46take control over it is a problem with

37:48patriarchy and I think it's a problem

37:50with misogyny. I don't think it's a

37:51feminism problem. Well, I would say that

37:54when you like put yourself out there to

37:57be over overtly sexual and you you don't

38:00give men anything to work for. So, you

38:03lessen your value. So if you want women

38:04to be valuable, then having a lot of sex

38:06with men, being just out there not

38:10caring about how you present yourself,

38:13that is not going to make you happy.

38:16You're actually sadder now. You're not

38:19happy. But and I think that, you know,

38:21women tend like all species, one thing

38:24we know is that we're here to be with

38:26each other. You can try to look at it

38:28like we're not we're not equal. We we

38:30provide equal value. And men can do

38:33things that women simply can't. You have

38:35like you

38:37>> can ask what

38:39what can men do that we can't?

38:41>> I mean men build everything. We don't.

38:43Men protect us. They fight wars. We

38:45don't.

38:45>> What do they protect us from? Other men.

38:47>> No. Women Women have always

38:50have built so many things.

38:52>> So many things.

38:53>> But in the world like

38:55>> women also weren't allowed to

38:56>> the buildings, the architecture. Men do

38:58all of that. Men are the geniuses. is

39:00way more male geniuses that are are

39:02female genius.

39:03>> That doesn't answer the question though.

39:04The question was what can they do? Not

39:06what have they done.

39:07>> Well, she's answering the question a

39:09little bit, but you're saying like

39:10they're more men geniuses. They stopped

39:11us from reading. They stopped us from

39:13going to school.

39:14>> Okay.

39:14>> The first black woman wasn't allowed to

39:17practice law. She got her law degree,

39:18but she wasn't allowed to even practice

39:20and be a lawyer. They stopped us.

39:21>> But that's not what modern feminism is

39:23about. That we have surpassed that

39:25already. You guys can read, you guys can

39:27vote, you can do everything you want to

39:28do. And you keep making issues. This is

39:30why you always talking about the

39:32patriarchy and capitalism. You feed it.

39:35Okay. Why do you think that you are a

39:37feminist in the first place? They wanted

39:39you to work. That's what they wanted you

39:41to do. They wanted two people in a

39:43household to work versus one, right? But

39:45you hate the you hate capitalism, but

39:48you serve it. You rather serve

39:49[clears throat] capitalism than serve

39:51your man. The man that was put here to

39:53protect you. Whether make enough

39:55[laughter] money so that you don't have

39:56to work. This is my thing. These are, if

39:58we're talking about family units, these

39:59are two people. They get to decide what

40:01happens in their unit. And reality is

40:03some men are not going to be able to

40:05provide all that they can. Talk about

40:07pressure. I feel like feminism was good

40:09for men because it kind of relieved them

40:10of a little bit of pressure.

40:11>> Lifted everybody up.

40:12>> Yeah. But it's made men so much more

40:14depressed than ever. It's made them

40:16weaker.

40:16>> I think they just don't like the fact

40:17that now they see, oh, women can be as

40:19good as us because now that we're

40:20allowed

40:22to do

40:25why don't why do you have to be? cuz we

40:26live in their world. And I'm saying

40:27because we live in this world with them

40:29where they are suppressing us. Their bar

40:32is up here. If our bar gets lifted, so

40:34does theirs. Our bar is lifted, so does

40:36theirs.

40:37>> Why do women need to be less than men?

40:39>> Yeah.

40:39>> Women are not less less than men.

40:41They're different from men. We provide

40:43equal being equal value, but we're

40:45different. You can't It's no way that if

40:48you got a man that's your age, your

40:50height, whatever, he's going and you

40:51race him, you're not going to beat him.

40:54More times than not, they're going to

40:56dust you, which lets you know that you

40:58are not equal to them. Not in that way.

41:01You're not equal. They're stronger. They

41:03have more logic. You're more emotional.

41:05It it's it's just it's just to speak to

41:07the emotions. If I could maybe chime in

41:09here, right? The idea that like men are

41:11less emotional than women. It's like,

41:12well, what's the number one cause of

41:15crime? Do you guys know like the actual

41:16precision factors?

41:17>> Poverty.

41:18>> It's it's actually impulsivity, right?

41:21ADHD is one of the largest uh things

41:24that is in prison, right? ADHD,

41:25impulsivity, right? And drinking, right?

41:28Men are highly addictive. They're

41:31suiciding at a higher rate than women

41:32are. The idea that men aren't emotional

41:34is again the type of prescriptive

41:36perpetuation that is bad for men.

41:38>> And there's an emotion

41:39>> that's bad for men and it's bad for

41:41women. Men are emotional, right? Women

41:44are emotional in different ways. You're

41:45right. If you talk to, for example, a

41:47trans woman who's gone on estrogen, for

41:49example, a lot of negative emotions

41:50begin to emerge, more specifically like

41:52sadness. The issue is that we all act

41:54like logic devoid of emotion is wisdom.

41:57But that there's there's not even a

41:59historical precedent for this. If you

42:01look back to like some of the original

42:02writers of wisdom, you talk about the

42:03Spartans or the Athenians, they loved

42:06their feelings. These Spartan men were

42:08so passionate about one another and the

42:10things that they fought for that they

42:11openly sought. That's what original

42:13stoicism is. It's an acknowledgement of

42:16the feelings and a drive for action

42:19through it. You take away a rat's

42:20ability to feel emotion, it starves to

42:22death in like a week. Because emotion

42:24drives all of us. Men are more or less

42:27emotional. We're all emotional. The

42:28issue is that yeah, they have

42:30testosterone. They're always going to

42:31lift things heavier than I am. That's

42:33why they're disproportionately

42:34represented in labor fields. But the

42:35issue is that a technology has balanced

42:38those things. And b the idea that men

42:41are just better. Men just by and large

42:43because of X and Y have a little bit

42:44more dimmorphism at the ends. They might

42:46like perform really high here. They're

42:48also disproportionately represented in

42:50some of the most disabled individuals,

42:52some of the most addicted individuals,

42:54some of the most homeless individuals,

42:55right? And so this idea that we're like

42:57subserve putting like women below men

42:59because like we tend to be kind of I

43:01would argue more balanced creatures I

43:03think is disserving both of us.

43:05>> I don't think that's we're not putting

43:07women under men. Yeah, we always like I

43:09was talking about this earlier where

43:11we're always constantly like obsessing

43:13over this hierarchy

43:15>> on I hear it from feminists a lot where

43:18it's like oh well men aren't better like

43:20you know women are under like the book

43:22the second sex like this hasn't come

43:25from women who are happy being mothers

43:27and anti or anti-feminist

43:29anti-suffragettes they're not saying

43:31that it's always the feminists that are

43:33saying this so I'm just like why are

43:35y'all so obsessed with trying to be men

43:36like why can't you just be good women

43:39and enjoy the roles that we're supposed

43:41to play, which is mother,

43:42>> a mother, because a man can't fill the

43:44mother role. That's why. So, I I just

43:47don't understand what the problem is and

43:49why you guys are trying to be men. So,

43:51>> is that the only trying to be men?

43:52>> Wait, no. Is that the only role we play

43:54though as mom? That's it.

43:55>> No, I just threw a role like, you know

43:56what I mean? I just threw a role out

43:57there that man cannot fill.

43:59>> I think I'm the most masculine one here.

44:01I'm not trying to be a man. I'm just

44:04more questioning like what it is. What

44:05is being a woman? like what is that

44:07going to look like for me? And it's not

44:09that I think that I'm better than men.

44:10It's just like even just saying like men

44:12are more logical. It's like I think men

44:14have been taught that their emotions are

44:15logic. They're not then it's not that

44:17they're more logical. They're not better

44:18decision makers. They're not the ones

44:19running our households. It's women that

44:20are running the households, you know.

44:22>> Um I would see if you see households

44:25that are led by women and versus single

44:28households that are led by men.

44:30>> Men do a better job raising children by

44:31themselves. You don't get to

44:33>> single households led by women are

44:35creating Yians that are in the black

44:38community. Women do that. Okay. Men

44:41provide structure. They they provide

44:43discipline and that's within the woman

44:45too.

44:45>> So men sound like great mothers.

44:47>> Is anyone on this side passionate about

44:49this particular prompt and would like to

44:51speak on it? I did I wanted to say

44:53something with respect to the lesbian

44:55because I can't identify but I think the

44:57flaw with feminism is the expectation

45:01that we are supposed to be the same at

45:04all. I think we understand and we

45:07appreciate we are not better or worse.

45:10We are not equal. We are equal valued

45:12but we're very different. And I think

45:14there's a natural biology

45:16that often gets overlooked. Especially

45:19if you've raised boys, you will see from

45:22the womb, they are just different. And I

45:24think when we try to put them together

45:26and say anything you can do, I can do

45:29better. We're setting ourselves up for s

45:31uh up for failure. And you made a

45:34comment earlier about women are better

45:36in every way than men. And the question

45:38that I would have is

45:41>> I'm I'm sorry. You said something about

45:42>> I didn't say anything close to that. I

45:44agree with you that I think the sex is

45:46no I honestly the men versus women sex

45:48thing I think it's silly I think these

45:50traits human traits are human traits

45:51some were nurtured more in this person

45:53some were nurtured like my dad being a

45:55stay-at-home dad he was much better

45:56mother than my mother was I am so sorry

45:58mom if you see this but he was he just

46:01was he was a better mom than she was and

46:04sometimes that's the case forget the

46:07gender role stuff and like these are all

46:09human traits you either are a gentle

46:11nurturing organized person who wants to

46:12take care of a kid or You're not. And

46:14that doesn't go manw woman that goes

46:16person.

46:16>> And I I will say not every woman is a

46:19mother. Not every woman should be a

46:20mother.

46:21>> And not everyone. Right.

46:22>> But I would just say this, find me the

46:24society of women that are doing it by

46:26themselves.

46:27>> I would love that.

46:28>> Exactly. It doesn't exist.

46:30>> Why though?

46:31>> Because we are not able to sustain it.

46:33We live in a safe civil society because

46:37the men have made an agreement amongst

46:39themselves to not blow it all up.