How Jack Selby Got RICH Working With Creators

0:00an incredible income

0:01quarter million

0:01I'll give you my most controversial take

0:03and I'm probably going to get canceled

0:04for saying this.

0:04You dropped out of college with one

0:06semester to go.

0:07I was desperate for just like meaning in

0:08my life. I could probably make a

0:09six-figure business if I was doing

0:11TikTok street interviews.

0:13Nonchalant pod, thank you guys so much

0:15for having me on. We did something on my

0:17podcast a long time ago. We don't do it

0:19anymore. The guest guesses the revenue

0:21that the podcast channel has made. So,

0:23I'm going to guest the the revenue.

0:25AdSense revenue? Yeah, I I have checked

0:27it like I think it was at like a

0:28thousand when I checked it, but that was

0:29a while ago. So, I'm going to say

0:31lifetime earnings on the channel to

0:342,000 2,500 2,500.

0:35check? Let's check. Let's check.

0:38I don't even know.

0:39Well, you guys flew first class over

0:40here. So, you have to be making some

0:42some pretty good money. Brother, we're

0:44not breaking even on those tickets.

0:46We're at $1,400 estimated revenue. Let's

0:50go.

0:50That's just for the last 28 days. Let me

0:52see the

0:52I mean, that's going to be a big

0:53difference when you

0:54lifetime it out. But, we've been doing

0:56this for like 20 days.

0:58Yeah. No way. Uh

1:01All right. $1,475.

1:04There we go. There we go. For the small

1:07percentage of the audience that doesn't

1:08know who you are, you are the host of

1:10one of the top podcasts in the world.

1:13Would that be a fair introduction? I I

1:15mean, I don't know if we're one of the

1:16top podcasts in the world, but we uh we

1:18do okay. Yeah.

1:18Well, I I have read somewhere that to be

1:20in the top 1% you only need like 5,000

1:23downloads per episode. There we go.

1:25We're in the top 1%.

1:26like the top 0.01.

1:27We'll take it. We'll take it. We'll take

1:29it.

1:29like how far you guys away from like I

1:31don't know Joe Rogan or something? Is

1:33that far? How far Wait, was

1:34Like how far away are you from

1:37I mean, dude. That's like That's like a

1:38different world. Joe Rogan, I mean, he

1:40probably on audio gets like my guess is

1:42like 10 million downloads an episode.

1:43somewhere around 11 million per episode.

1:4511 million

1:46See, that I mean, that's insane. So, I

1:48don't think we're anywhere near signing

1:49a hundred million dollar Spotify deal,

1:51but maybe at some point in the future,

1:52you know, if we can get more people like

1:54Be a Haz on, you know, then I think I

1:56think things are going to look good.

1:57yeah. You're getting up there though.

1:58You guys have been growing massively

2:01and we're just curious, is there any

2:02money in this? Is there any money in

2:04podcasting? Like are we going to see

2:05some What's my income potential?

2:07Yeah, are we going to break even? Yeah,

2:08yeah. So there is there is good money in

2:10podcasting. I will say people are

2:12surprised when I tell them how much we

2:14earn because it's not as much as they

2:16would think. Yeah, but for me it's still

2:19an incredible income. Like I pinch

2:20myself every day to you know cuz I just

2:22don't believe that this is my life. Um

2:25but yeah, it's it's it's really good

2:26because you can put multiple ads in

2:28every episode. Like it's kind of

2:29understood in podcasting. A lot of

2:31podcasts put like six sponsorships in

2:33every episode. So obviously the rate

2:35that you can charge is is less than a

2:36standard video, but most of the money is

2:38in sponsorships and also you have the

2:39Google ads, Spotify ads and stuff like

2:42that and it does add up. You're not

2:43comfortable revealing any actual

2:45numbers? I mean I won't reveal what we

2:47earn from sponsorships just because it's

2:49not smart because then the sponsors will

2:51like shop the rate and everything. So

2:53that would be a business unwise

2:55decision, but sure I can

2:56I can show you what we're doing on like

2:58the the YouTube. The YouTube revenue?

3:00Yeah, the YouTubes. All right, so take a

3:01guess how much we made in the past 28

3:03days just from Google

3:05AdSense.

3:07Quarter million? Mhm, brother.

3:10I mean I see the watch, brother.

3:11Oh, just so people know just so people

3:13know things are different now. Things

3:14are very different now in the Ice Coffee

3:16Hour. That's iced out Patek. Got this

3:18iced out Patek. Thank you to Vlad. He

3:20gave this to me as a gift. I mean I'm

3:21just speechless at at how fancy and nice

3:23it is.

3:24I'm sure I'm sure it's nothing. Just so

3:25generous. Approaching a million subs,

3:27you you got to you got to rock something

3:28like that.

3:29Oh, you know it. Okay, so take a guess.

3:3110? 10k? Uh realistic guess, I would say

3:3630,000. 5,000. Okay, so the last 28 days

3:39we did 30 32,000.

3:41Yeah, which is like substantially more

3:43than how much we were making for the

3:44longest time. I mean there were kind of

3:47different steps. Like initially we were

3:48probably making like 700 bucks a month

3:50for a super long time and then it went

3:52up to like a few thousand every month,

3:54like $3,000 a month. We were there for a

3:55very long time. And then we stuck at

3:57about 8 to $10,000. We were there for

4:00like

4:00I don't know, like 1 and 1/2 years. And

4:02now the podcast is about 4 years old,

4:05and uh we recently had a massive boost

4:07in revenue just because I feel like

4:08we've been having more evergreen guests

4:10on the podcast. Um and the views, they

4:12kind of just stack, whereas back in the

4:14day we'd have on people that were more

4:15current current event-based. So, the

4:18podcast would stop getting views after

4:19after some time. And uh yeah, it's just

4:21compounded, and now we're kind of

4:23hovering right around 30 a month. That's

4:25pretty solid, but that's just like the

4:26one uh

4:28source of revenue for the podcast, you

4:29would

4:30Yeah, I mean it's a substantial portion.

4:31Like it's not like, yes, I'm like

4:32nominal, negligible amount that we're

4:34that we're making from that.

4:36Um but yeah. What do you think makes

4:37your podcast so good? Like is it Like

4:40what is What is it about it? Why do you

4:41think it works? Dude, I ask myself that

4:43a lot. And it's so weird because I have

4:45people that come up to me if they like

4:46recognize me or something or other

4:48people they come on our show and they

4:49tell me that Oh, I've been listening to

4:50your show show for such a long time. Big

4:52YouTubers have came up to me and and

4:54said things like, out of all the content

4:55that I that I watch on YouTube, most of

4:57my time is spent watching the Ice Coffee

4:59Hour. And it's people that like I'm huge

5:00fans of. I didn't even know that they

5:01knew I existed. Uh-huh. Which is like

5:03the most humbling thing.

5:04Yeah. Um Yeah, go ahead.

5:06famous now? Do you get recognized a lot

5:08of times?

5:08no. No, no. I'm I am not even close to

5:10being famous.

5:11get recognized? Yeah, I get recognized

5:12and stuff like that. And like now, you

5:14know, I go to the gym, and people at the

5:16gym, like they they know me, like a few

5:17people, like regulars at the gym, so I

5:19see them every time or you know,

5:20different places, but I would not say

5:22I'm even close to being famous. And the

5:24thing that I think sets our podcast

5:26apart would be probably

5:28the relationship that Graham and I have,

5:31I think does make a bit of a difference

5:32because we're so fundamental

5:34fundamentally different in just the way

5:36that we approach life. And I think I

5:38don't know, I think it's probably just

5:39something to do with like the questions

5:41we ask and the flow of the podcast. I

5:42also spend an exorbitant amount of time

5:45in the post-production. Like I am very

5:48careful of what I remove, what I keep in

5:49the podcast, how I structure the

5:51podcast, editing. I try to be good about

5:53audio balancing. That's like kind of

5:55where I'm working right now. But I think

5:56that also has to do something with the

5:58uh success.

5:58You talked about your relationship with

6:00Graham. Can you get into how that even

6:02started?

6:03Sure.

6:04So, I was a huge fan of Graham Stephan.

6:06And I'll give you just like the TLDR

6:09type thing. Um

6:11to explain where I was in my life, I was

6:13going to community college and I was

6:15going to say I had a girlfriend at the

6:16time, but that's totally unrelated.

6:19That didn't have anything to do with

6:21this. I don't know. I'm just trying to

6:22think of like where I was at in my life

6:23at the time. Um

6:25And uh yeah, so I was in college. I was

6:27working as a busser at a restaurant and

6:29I was consuming financial YouTube and uh

6:32I tried like every side hustle you could

6:33possibly imagine. Uh most of them were

6:36unsuccessful. Drop shipping was one. I

6:38think I was watching your videos. Um and

6:40then I just started watching Graham

6:41Stephan and I loved everything he was

6:43saying. It was reinforcing all the

6:44things my dad taught me growing up, so I

6:46know he wasn't just some charlatan.

6:48And then I opened up a Roth IRA because

6:49of him. I did all these actionable

6:51things in my own life. He made a literal

6:53impact on my life. On my financial

6:54future. And then I reached out and I was

6:56like, "This guy is living the life I

6:57want to live." I always had these

6:58questions. I didn't know what I wanted

6:59to do when I was older. Um I couldn't

7:01really see myself working

7:03most of the jobs that like the job fairs

7:06would present. And uh

7:08jobs?

7:08The matrix jobs. So, I wanted to be a

7:10glitch, you know? Yeah, shout out Luke

7:12Belmar.

7:13And uh yeah, he he was like living the

7:15life that I wanted to live.

7:16Right.

7:17Um so, I just reached out persistently

7:18over the course of a few months. And

7:20then honestly, I kind of just lucked

7:21out. Like I was at the top of the inbox

7:23with one of my messages uh when he

7:25needed help drastically with something.

7:27And um yeah, he just hit me up. And then

7:29I worked super super super hard. Like

7:31it's literally my entire life. Like no

7:32regard for my time, no regard for my

7:34sleep, energy, etc. And then he saw that

7:37and he was like, "Okay, like this guy is

7:38in it for the cause, not just cuz he

7:40wants to make a quick buck off me."

7:41Yeah, I was going to ask, how do you

7:42even get in contact with someone like

7:43that? Do you just What's your cold

7:45approach, cold email? So, email was the

7:46most effective for me. I would not

7:48recommend if you want to do like a a

7:50mentorship or mentee-mentor relationship

7:52with somebody you see online, don't

7:53reach out via DM because they get so so

7:56many. So, I would say email probably the

7:59best bet. Go to the YouTube channel, go

8:01to the about page, click on the email,

8:02paste it, and then just like send a

8:05bunch of messages.

8:05a crazy hook like something

8:07Yeah, what did you say? What was the

8:08subject line?

8:09The subject I mean I can whip it out if

8:10you want to see what the subject line

8:11was. I was I was like honestly I was

8:14like borderline like begging. Like

8:15because at this point in my and I'm

8:17fine saying that. I mean I know it's

8:18kind of cringe

8:20um to say like how desperate you were at

8:22this, you know, sometime in your life,

8:23but I was very desperate for just like

8:25meaning in my life. I was desperate for

8:28for something I could really feel proud

8:30of doing. Um and I think I was just

8:32unhappy. Like I didn't see growth in

8:34anywhere in my life. I was working as a

8:35busser, you know, I didn't think

8:37obviously that's not going to go

8:38anywhere. Like sure I could be a server,

8:40but that wasn't what I wanted to do for

8:41the rest of my life. And I didn't see

8:42growth in college. Like I was studying

8:45business administration, which honestly

8:46I'm sorry, but like a lot of people

8:49study business administration, okay?

8:51What are you going to do with it? I

8:52think STEM, if you're going to go to

8:53college, and I'm I'm trying not to just

8:55yap, but like this is something I feel

8:56passionately about. If you're studying

8:58STEM, that's like one thing. Sure,

9:00college is good for you. If you're

9:01studying, you know, be a doctor, be a

9:02lawyer, college is good. Anything else,

9:04honestly reconsider. Bro, but you pulled

9:06a crazy move. I I I want to get to the

9:08email, but you dropped out of college

9:10with one semester to go.

9:12Like that's that's insane.

9:14actually one year to go. I had one year

9:16to go, yeah, but I was I mean I was a

9:18very academic guy. So, like I had really

9:21good grades. I was going to UCSB after

9:23transferring from from community

9:24college. So, like it was unquestionable

9:27that I was going to finish college. Like

9:28there was not a shadow of doubt in my

9:30mind I was going to do college. Everyone

9:31in my

9:32family is a college graduate. I was

9:34going to be the black sheep if I if I

9:35dropped out, but

9:37I thought it was more risky to stay in

9:39college than it was to pursue this thing

9:41that I had at that time been when I

9:43dropped out been working on for like a

9:44year and a half and things are going

9:45really well. I wasn't making enough at

9:47the time to justify it, but we ended up

9:49renegotiating when I decided to drop out

9:51to make it make sense. But it wasn't

9:53like, "Hey, I'm dropping out and then I

9:55might start this business." It was like

9:56I'm you you already had something going

9:58for a little while. Yeah. Okay. So I

10:00already had and and Graham and I we

10:03I was like, "Hey Graham, it's a It was

10:05summer time basically when I was

10:06deciding to drop out." And I was like,

10:08"Graham, I have 1 year left. I'm going

10:10to go back to UCSB. I can continue doing

10:12this on the side, but by that time I had

10:14taken on so much responsibility that the

10:17business probably would not have

10:18functioned if I had left. I don't want

10:20to say that it wouldn't like I was so

10:22important that it wouldn't have gone on

10:24because but Graham had gotten used to me

10:26doing all of the work that I was doing.

10:27We had the podcast going on. We had so

10:29many other responsibilities that it

10:31would have been extremely challenging.

10:33So then we just renegotiated our terms.

10:36Um, it was all percentage based. So it

10:38was all commission. I just had to work

10:40really hard um and earn the business a

10:42lot of money for me to make a lot of

10:43money. And then as soon as we

10:44renegotiated like my income skyrocketed.

10:47Not skyrocketed. That's like so

10:49dramatic, but it went up like a lot. And

10:51the amount of money that I made on these

10:52new terms in the first year was like

10:54$113,000.

10:55How'd you convince him with like the

10:57negotiation?

10:58to. You didn't have to really? No. No.

11:00Like I had Yeah, because

11:02he wanted me on board. So like it was

11:05more so he was trying to convince me to

11:07stay and I was like, "Graham, at this

11:08point I was probably making $3,500 bucks

11:11a month." And I'm like, "Dude, like I

11:12have 1 year left. I'm not going to drop

11:14out for $3,500 a month. I'm sorry." And

11:16then we just renegotiated percentages

11:18and and I was also working a bunch. So

11:22you could even argue that even if I was

11:24not a college graduate, if I wasn't even

11:26in college at the time, $3,500 a month

11:28was probably not the mark fair market

11:31value of my labor

11:32Mhm. Um but yeah, we just renegotiated

11:34and he was happy to and he's always

11:37treated me fairly. But I don't know if

11:38you still wanted to see like The email?

11:40Yeah, I want to see the

11:41So this is horrible. I've never even

11:42thought about the subject line. Um the

11:44subject line was lunch. Lunch? Yeah.

11:47I'm going to screenshot it just for the

11:48for later. Uh there're probably some Oh,

11:51okay. Let me I mean sure, I can

11:52screenshot it. I can I'll send it to

11:54you.

11:54Yeah, just crop it out whatever.

11:55But I'll tell you what to to like remove

11:58from that. Yeah, cuz it's it's pretty

11:59like Pretty desperate, honestly. Yeah.

12:01Wow.

12:01What? Is that is that the move to just

12:03get as desperate as possible?

12:05Probably not. Like in hindsight, if I I

12:07mean it worked for me. So I would say if

12:10you want to do what I did, maybe. But it

12:13to the average person would probably

12:15come off as weird. Graham just so

12:16happens to be like

12:18not average. He's a very like kind of a

12:21weird person, to be frank. So it

12:23probably just appealed to him when I was

12:24like, I will have no regard for my time

12:26or energy. And he was like, all right,

12:27cool.

12:28And it was also kind of a timing thing

12:29cuz you reached out at the perfect

12:31moment where he needed some help. But to

12:33be fair, you reached out a bunch of

12:34times. Mhm. So that so you made that

12:36of times. Yeah, so I mean like I'm not

12:38going to just chalk it completely up to

12:39luck, right? Um there was persistence

12:42involved in everything. But think about

12:43for you guys. Like if you're trying to

12:45be successful, it really has to do with

12:46who you're associated with, right? Like

12:48you obviously have the flooring thing

12:49going on and that's successful and

12:50everything. You have the e-commerce

12:52store and everything, but that's because

12:54of association with Vlad. And now you're

12:55maintaining the store and it's doing

12:56great. And I think there's a lot of

12:58opportunity with this podcast and the

13:00podcast is kind of happening because the

13:01equipment Vlad's initial like star power

13:04and everything. And I think a lot of it

13:05has to do with association. So you got

13:06to get in the right circles. Who is

13:07that? Did you reach out to other people

13:09besides Graham? I did. That's funny.

13:10That's a funny question. I don't know if

13:12I've ever said this. I reached out to

13:14two other people. Who?

13:16One, Ethan Klein. H3H3.

13:18Yeah. That's crazy.

13:20this is crazy. Sneako. Sneako?

13:23Yeah, I reached out

13:23Back then? Yeah. So this is 2019. Yeah,

13:26early 2019 I reached out to Sneako. He

13:28was way smaller. The type of content he

13:29was making completely different. It was

13:31like

13:32self-development, personal growth,

13:34transformation content. It wasn't the

13:36more, you know, type of stuff he's doing

13:37these days like the Matrix pill stuff.

13:40But uh yeah, I was like a huge fan of

13:42his content and he actually got back to

13:43me. He was He said uh I was like I'll

13:45have no regard for my time, no regard

13:46for my energy. I just I love what you're

13:47doing. I want to help. And he was like,

13:49"What's the catch?"

13:51I think that's all he said. So you had

13:53two offers on the table, Grams Stefan

13:55and the Sneako offer?

13:56Well, Sneako passed up on me. Really? He

13:58didn't get back to you after you

13:59No, I said I said there's literally no

14:00catch. Like I will pay for your flight

14:02out here if you want to like record some

14:04content. I'll just film. I'll fly to

14:05you. I'll do whatever. And I just don't

14:07think he bought it. I think he thought

14:09you were trying to get him. He was

14:10trying to get you.

14:10Yeah. Try to finesse you.

14:11Yeah. But I genuinely I just wanted to

14:13help. So Sneako, he missed out. You

14:15know, look at me now, Sneako.

14:16Look at me now. Things are different

14:18now. What about Ethan? Ethan just didn't

14:20respond. He was like massive at the

14:22time. So that was a little ambitious of

14:23me to think he would get back to me, but

14:24yeah.

14:25That would be such a different

14:27trajectory.

14:28Yeah, and I probably wouldn't be super

14:30proud of what I was, you know, yeah.

14:32Like I I

14:34Here's the thing, man. I think what

14:35Ethan does is good. And I can see he's a

14:38genuine being. I don't think he's super

14:40ideologically based. Like I think he's

14:42somewhat of an independent thinker. But

14:45at the same time, he kind of makes a

14:47career out of just like being mean to

14:50people online. And that's not something

14:51that I personally can, you know, feel

14:53super good at the end of the day about

14:55like supporting. Yeah. And I this is not

14:57any like a personal attack against Ethan

14:59or anything. It's just And I know a lot

15:01of people they love that content and

15:02that is their source of joy in the day

15:03when they tune into his live streams and

15:04they like listen to that content. That's

15:07great. If that brings you joy, that's

15:08great. But for me, like I tune into his

15:10content and I just notice myself getting

15:12frustrated over something or in a worse

15:14of a mood. So it's you know, a

15:15reflection of myself, not necessarily

15:16Ethan. I mean, I don't think he would

15:18argue with you on that. Like his content

15:20is a little negative. Yeah, I think I

15:22think he would agree, which is why you

15:23know, he's not like an ideological

15:24thinker. I think he's a fairly

15:25independent thinker. Right. So with with

15:27what you did with Graham, you're like a

15:29huge proponent of working for free,

15:31right?

15:32Mhm. You think it's worth it to take the

15:34internship, take the

15:36work for free up front? 1,000%.

15:39Really?

15:39Yes. And

15:41it's a hard pill to swallow. And for me,

15:44I will say I was so lucky. I was so

15:46lucky. I was living with my parents.

15:47Mhm. I had a job. I was grinding. I was

15:50working so hard. Graham was giving me a

15:53decent amount of work, but I was also

15:54working at a restaurant. I was also a

15:56full-time student. I was juggling all of

15:58these things. So like, yeah, like it

15:59took a lot out of me to do it. Um other

16:02people aren't in such advantageous

16:04situations where maybe they have rent to

16:05pay, they have bills to, you know, to

16:08pay, they have people relying on them

16:09and stuff like that. I didn't have any

16:10of that. So it was easier for me to not

16:12get paid. But

16:15if you want a really hard life to

16:17achieve, Mhm. then you better know that

16:20it's going to be very hard to get there.

16:21You have to make sacrifices. That's just

16:24the name of the game.

16:25Yeah, I think it's even the same way

16:26with uh just regular entrepreneurship.

16:29Not even like working for free for

16:30somebody. With any business that you're

16:32going to get into, you're going to work

16:33for free for like the longest time

16:35before you see anything. So I think

16:36that's

16:37that's something you got to be okay

16:38with.

16:38And somehow saying this is like the

16:40worst thing in the world, but then

16:41people are going to college and paying

16:43That's true.

16:44to get a job for four years. So okay, so

16:46you're telling me it's four years of

16:47their life, right? That's gone. Mhm.

16:50Right? You could say that, you know,

16:51they party, they have fun, they make

16:52connections, etc., etc. You can do all

16:54that outside of college. Um and on top

16:56of that, the financial damage, right? Of

16:59student loans, it's it's hard to compare

17:01that, honestly. When I say, "Oh, work

17:03for free for a year, learn actually in

17:05the field that you want to work in," but

17:07somehow that's more taboo. I don't know.

17:09You talked about um

17:11disregarding your time and like just

17:13really sacrificing everything. Do you

17:14believe in sacrificing your 20s? No. No.

17:17No, no, no. And I wouldn't have done

17:19that.

17:20Honestly.

17:20were saying in the email that you were.

17:22Yeah. I didn't sacrifice my 20s.

17:23just capping. You were trolling. Like,

17:24hey.

17:25No, here people Okay. The bait and

17:28switch?

17:30Here's the thing. I did sacrifice a lot.

17:32I didn't sacrifice my 20s and I never

17:33said I would sacrifice my 20s. I

17:35sacrificed probably

17:382 years of my life. And I would not

17:39consider it sacrificing cuz I was

17:41building towards something. So, it was

17:43still an investment. But I did sacrifice

17:46a good amount of time of free labor. I

17:48sacrificed a good amount of like my

17:49sanity because I was, you know, lacking

17:52sleep during a lot of those times. Not

17:53because of It's not Graham's fault. It's

17:55me taking it stupidly serious and doing

17:57everything that I can.

17:59He was always He's always been great to

18:00me. I don't want to say anything

18:01negative about Graham and this is not me

18:02just like politically posturing or

18:03anything. Like, that's the honest truth.

18:05He treats me amazingly.

18:06Um so, yeah, like I did sacrifice a lot,

18:09but no. I would never sacrifice a decade

18:12of my life. What are you, insane?

18:14Yeah, I don't know. Decade of my life,

18:15the 20s? Like

18:17Okay, to be fair, like 18 to like 22 or

18:19whatever. You know 18 Yeah, sacrifice it

18:21cuz what you're going to sacrifice it in

18:22college anyways. But I've heard Graham

18:24and maybe this is where you guys are

18:25super different, but he's kind of like

18:27pushing this agenda of like you should

18:28sacrifice your 20s to set yourself up

18:30for your 30s. At least I've heard him

18:31say that before.

18:32Okay, well, let's let's break this down.

18:33What does sacrifice mean?

18:34Just like

18:35Like no hanging out with friends. No fun

18:38drinks. No laughing. No fun hangouts.

18:40You just You're focused. Okay, why?

18:43So you could set yourself up for when

18:44you're older. Okay, why do you want to

18:46be set up when you're older? I'm I'm not

18:47saying I

18:48No, I'm just I'm just asking you. I'm

18:49just So that you're in Dubai and you're

18:51just chilling, you know, but your

18:52friends are out there losing their

18:54virginity, doing whatever.

18:55So, you're not with your friends?

18:57If you're like me and

18:58in a different country? That's monk

19:00mode. I don't know.

19:02Yeah, you you got to go monk mode. Okay,

19:04everyone, if you haven't gone monk mode

19:05yet, you got to go monk mode right now.

19:07No, I would not want to sacrifice my

19:0820s. I would sacrifice a couple of

19:10years.

19:11And I did sacrifice a good amount of my

19:12time. There were certain periods of time

19:14in my life where like it was wake up

19:16with the laptop beside my bed, lift it

19:19up, put it on my lap, and that was

19:20early. That was probably, you know,

19:226:30, maybe 6:00, get in my day trades.

19:27Uh and then go through the entire day

19:28just grinding. The only time that I had

19:30not working was maybe like a 30-minute

19:32walk if I could reserve the time, go do

19:33that. I was eating unhealthily, I wasn't

19:35exercising, and I was just working the

19:37entire day. Go to sleep with my laptop

19:39on my bed, wake up, do the exact same

19:41thing the next day. And it didn't make

19:42me happy, and I would say this is

19:43probably the most unhappy that I was in

19:46in my entire life during this period of

19:47time. But at the same time, you can't

19:49say that if you want to achieve

19:51something that's hard, that it will go

19:52without sacrifice. You have to

19:53sacrifice. I just wouldn't sacrifice my

19:5520s. The entirety of your 20s, that's a

19:57decade of your life. Like that is a

19:58significant If you're going to live till

20:0080, what's that, 12% of your life?

20:03It's like about I don't know. Let's just

20:04say 12% of your life. Like that's a

20:06That's not an insignificant amount of

20:08your life. Don't sacrifice that.

20:09Sacrifice a good amount, but let's be

20:11real here. Like the 20s

20:13I mean, your body is capable of doing

20:14things that you can't do when you're

20:16older, so. What would you do if that

20:18didn't work out? Like let's say you do 2

20:21years with Graham, and then things just

20:23aren't working out. I like to think that

20:24I have the mental framework of still

20:27being really positive about it.

20:28Mhm. So, and I think that's everything.

20:30It's like you win some and you learn

20:32some. So, I would have liked to think

20:34that I had learned some. Um but I also

20:37knew myself, and at that point I knew

20:38Graham really well. And I was like, I'm

20:39bullish on this.

20:40Mhm. I had high conviction. And also, we

20:42did make a clause

20:44This is going to like negate everything

20:45I just said. We had a clause in the

20:46contract where it's like if my

20:48percentages didn't bring me up to X

20:50fixed income, it was $90,000 in that

20:53year that um that I would have worked

20:54full-time, three I was a calendar year,

20:56Mhm. um then he would have brought me

20:58up, paid the difference. So, I was kind

21:00of thinking like 90,000 bucks to take a

21:02year a gap year from college, um like

21:04that makes sense, and uh yeah. Yeah, and

21:07at that point you would have had the

21:08experience to land probably something

21:09similar with someone else. Yeah, 100%. I

21:12was like somewhat known in the

21:14community, and Graham spoke really

21:15highly of me, and he would have gave me

21:16references. And at the time, I mean,

21:18still, there are so many financial

21:19YouTubers that like would have probably

21:20hired me, like Andre or Jeremy or, you

21:22know, Ryan Pineda, all those guys, so.

21:24So, you you you were able to get on this

21:26massive platform. Why did you decide not

21:28to start doing your own content? I kind

21:31of wanted to. I mean, I got into the

21:33industry because I wanted to be a

21:34YouTuber as a kid. Um but I

21:37I don't know. I think it's different

21:38when you're

21:40when you're doing something that's like

21:44I like working on other people's things

21:45more. Mhm. I think at the end of the

21:47day. I tried my own content. I was doing

21:49TikTok street interviews. That was kind

21:50of fun. It was

21:52Honestly, it was easy. Like that's the

21:53the lowest-hanging fruit of content that

21:55you can make. I was thinking to myself,

21:57all these people, they're getting like

21:58so many views, they're getting so much

21:59engagement, so much money from this,

22:01brand deals and stuff like that. What

22:02happens if I try it? I tried it, and

22:04like

22:05I think like the third or fourth video I

22:06did just popped off. I just like

22:07transferred my YouTube editing skills to

22:09short-form content, and I just went

22:10above and beyond in the editing. I was

22:12super selective of the content that I

22:13put on TikTok, and they blew up.

22:15And it was easy, and I had brands

22:16reaching out to me, "Oh, we want to

22:17sponsor you, this and that." But I just

22:18It was like soulless content for me.

22:21Like it was like, "Okay, like I'm kind

22:22of just like going up to people asking

22:23them questions." And nothing against the

22:25people that do that. It's entertaining.

22:27It brings people happiness. You can

22:28learn. If you're asking people, "How

22:30much do you make?" and, "You know, how

22:31do you make that money? What What is

22:32your job? What went into that job?" Like

22:34that is content that hopefully can

22:35inspire people to do that exact same

22:36path. It just wasn't for me.

22:39I mean, there's a reason why people

22:40watch that. There's a reason why there's

22:41those videos get views. People People do

22:43enjoy that. And you really actually

22:45popped off. I remember seeing you, it

22:46was like you you got over a million

22:47views on some of those videos. Yeah,

22:48quite a few. Yeah, like it was like

22:51like I was having plenty of people reach

22:52out to me on TikTok that are like, "I've

22:54never seen engagement like this ever

22:56before." Like my percentages of like

22:58view to like was like crazy. The amount

23:01of views that I was getting, the

23:01retention I was getting. A lot of people

23:03reached out to me like, "What is going

23:04on?" Cuz I was coming out of nowhere.

23:06Can you make money with that though?

23:07Yeah, you can make money. I had a couple

23:08of brand deals and stuff like that.

23:09Nothing was crazy because the brand

23:11deals I started taking seriously once I

23:13like I was done on TikTok and then that

23:15email was still active and they were

23:16like continually hitting me up. But by

23:18the end like I hadn't posted in a super

23:19long time so like the rates were, you

23:21know, not like anything like I could

23:22have gotten. But I think I did one for

23:24like,

23:25you know, 700 bucks. Wow.

23:27And that was for for a TikTok? For a

23:29TikTok. Yeah, and that took me I don't

23:32know realistically it was probably 5-6

23:34hours of work and I got like $500 worth

23:35of product. So like that's really good

23:37and I could probably make a six-figure

23:39business if I was doing TikTok street

23:41interviews. I just decided not to. Have

23:42you heard about the new thing where

23:44they'll actually pay you if your videos

23:46are over a minute long? Have you

23:47experimented with that? So we

23:48unfortunately can't do that on the Ice

23:50Coffee Hour because the account was

23:51created in a different country. Oof.

23:54Yeah, so our like we can't make money on

23:56our TikTok and I think it would be a

23:58pretty, you know, pretty solid um

24:01revenue

24:02source if we were doing that but it just

24:04I don't know. Do your

24:05want to restart the entire account. Do

24:07your TikToks get posted from a different

24:09country?

24:10No, they get posted from the United

24:11States. The account was just created in

24:12a different country and the TikTok

24:13support is just not very good. So you

24:15can't like talk to them like, "Yo, like

24:17I told somebody to create an account for

24:18us cuz they wanted to try out short form

24:20for 30 days." By the way, if you wanted

24:21to work for us, that's what it took.

24:23Like people were reaching out every

24:24single day. We want to create short

24:25form. Graham and I were still kind of

24:26iffy about it. I was a little more sold

24:27than he was. And then this guy reached

24:29out and he's like, "I'll do it for free

24:30for 30 days." And I was like, "All

24:31right, let's just see how it works." And

24:32he was in Canada. And he gave me the

24:34login and everything. Then we ended up

24:35paying him, switched to a different

24:36agency that does our short form now and

24:37it's great.

24:38Yeah, with those kind of emails cuz we

24:40started getting a ton of those as well.

24:42The ones that I think we actually

24:43respond to and the ones we consider it's

24:45when they send a clip beforehand. Like

24:48we get the email. Yeah, it's so you can

24:50see the work, you can see the portfolio,

24:52you can see they're dedicated. If you

24:54want to work for Nonchalant Podcast, if

24:56you want to work for the Ice Coffee

24:57Hour, if you want to work for anyone, do

24:58the work beforehand cuz they get reached

25:00out to all of the time. You think that

25:03you might be unique if you're reaching

25:05out saying that you might you know you

25:06want to help in the same way that I was

25:07doing. I thought I was unique. I just

25:09kind of got lucky and I was persistent,

25:11right? And that was also a long time

25:12ago. Things were a little bit different

25:13back then. Um but yeah, do the work up

25:15front and just send them, "Hey, this is

25:16what I got. This is what you can get

25:17with me." Yeah, cuz I mean they can type

25:19out like an elaborate email, but if

25:20someone sends a good clip, like that

25:22does all the talking. Couple clips,

25:24Google Drive with with all these clips.

25:26It's like, "Oh, Somebody went crazy.

25:27They did like a whole Google Drive with

25:29like 10 clips, like Yeah, you're looking

25:31at the clips and you gave them a fair

25:33shot. These people. And all these other

25:35people that reach out with all of these

25:37words without any actual action,

25:39you probably didn't really consider.

25:40Yeah, you got to take action. I want to

25:42know if you guys want to have Andrew

25:43Tate on the podcast. Most definitely.

25:45100%. 100%. You would do that? Why not?

25:48Why don't you try?

25:49You feel like you have to like level up?

25:50I think so. I keep thinking that Max and

25:52TJ just are keep on saying to just reach

25:55out to everyone, but I don't know. I

25:56feel like we want to get I want want to

25:58at least get a few reps in with like the

26:01the guests in my personal network and

26:03then from there I think we'll be a

26:04little more ready to sit down with like

26:07Yeah. Andrew Tate. I think that makes

26:09sense. Like Hormozi would say, you have

26:12to you can't just like force confidence.

26:14You have to give yourself a stack of

26:15undeniable proof that you can do what

26:16you say you want. Something like that.

26:18I'm paraphrasing. Um so yeah, as long as

26:20you feel confident and you have like the

26:21stacks of evidence that you can take it

26:23on, then you won't be anxious. You won't

26:24be nervous and you'll call him. You got

26:26You guys seem like you're big enough to

26:28get Tate on, but you haven't. He

26:30probably doesn't rock with you or you

26:31guys don't rock with him. What's the

26:32issue there? So the the thing about

26:34Andrew Tate is that

26:37I would I would consider having him on.

26:40But I'm also a higher risk taker. Like I

26:42wanted Justin Waller on. That was high

26:44risk. I wanted Fresh and Fit on. That

26:46was me. Graham didn't want that, right?

26:49And I'm very transparent. Like they they

26:50knew that Graham was apprehensive,

26:52Justin Waller knew Graham was

26:53apprehensive.

26:54But, it's not Graham being like a wuss.

26:57It really is not. It's him being smart.

27:00It's him being a shrewd business person.

27:02Like, he has so much more to risk. I

27:04have an insignificant amount of money

27:07relative like an an insignificant amount

27:09of like fame, clout, reputation,

27:11everything. So, obviously, I'm going to

27:13want to go for like these high-risk, you

27:15know, slam dunk plays. And Graham, it

27:17makes sense. So, I can't be upset at him

27:20for having this different perspective of

27:21being a little bit more apprehensive

27:23when it comes to stuff like that. And

27:24it's no like like it's costly. Like

27:26going all the way out to Romania,

27:27traveling with all the gear, several

27:29days. Graham's time is worth a lot more

27:31than than my time is, just to be frank.

27:33So, like I understand why he would be

27:34apprehensive, and I 100% respect that.

27:36And he's just being smart. It's like if

27:38I was Graham, I would consider being in

27:39the same situation.

27:41I'd be so good though. Like I I'd pay to

27:42watch that. Yeah.

27:43You guys can put it behind a paywall.

27:45Yeah, I'd do it.

27:46Yeah, we'll see. We'll see. Yeah, I

27:47mean, I I'd love to. I I don't I don't

27:49think like there's an issue. It's

27:50something that we have talked about like

27:53in a way, are we slightly responsible

27:55for the people that we bring on and the

27:56things that they say? Like it's a bit of

27:58a moral dilemma that I think at least I

27:59have. It's like if they say things that

28:01I really disagree with, but I'm giving

28:04them the platform to say that, is that

28:06still kind of on me? So, it's

28:10it's hard

28:11because I like to think for podcasting,

28:13I'm just a journalist. But, then again,

28:15I hate a lot of journalists because

28:17you're like airing out, paraphrasing,

28:19taking other studies and stuff like

28:20that, and like second-hand information,

28:22you're just saying it as though it's

28:23fact. And like I think that you should

28:25have some culpability for what you put

28:27out just in general. I think that that's

28:28smart. Um so, I don't want to be a

28:30hypocrite and say like like um like no,

28:33we can you know, we can have an on

28:35whoever on the podcast and say whatever

28:36because I I'm very critical of the

28:39journalists that do exactly that. Um so,

28:41it's a really hard line to draw. With

28:43Fresh and Fit, I will say, there were

28:45for things that they said that I just

28:46like fundamentally had an issue with and

28:49I decided to cut it out and that's on

28:51me. If you know, if if you're a fan of

28:52Fresh and Fit and you wanted to hear

28:54like the full unregulated uncut podcast,

28:56I'm sorry. Like that was just something

28:58that I had an issue with. I'm not I'm

28:59not mixing up their words. I'm not

29:01skewing their agenda. I'm not doing any

29:03of that. By removing a certain segment

29:05of the podcast, I was just like this is

29:06not something that I necessarily want

29:08out there. It was um

29:10There were some things I left in that I

29:11was like kind of questionable. Like they

29:12would call women hoes and I I just don't

29:15think that that's like

29:17I don't think if you're if you're trying

29:18to get a message across to as a broad

29:21range of an audience as possible,

29:23don't use words like hoe. Like I just

29:25don't think that like I think it's just

29:26mean. I think it's teaching people the

29:28wrong thing. I think it's super negative

29:30and I'm a big proponent of like

29:31spreading positivity and understanding

29:33people.

29:34Um but I just I wasn't a huge fan of

29:36that. So I think I cut out a couple of

29:37the hoes

29:38um and just random stuff like that. It's

29:39not usually like I I I would never, you

29:42know, rearrange somebody's stance

29:44argument stuff like that.

29:47We got some lashback on uh

29:50calling women females.

29:53That's stupid. I don't like the people I

29:56don't know. People are going to have a

29:57problem with anything. Calling women

29:58female. Okay, what are you supposed to

29:59call them? Dudes? Males? Yeah, I don't

30:01know. It was a it was a little bit like

30:02a lot. And for some reason we just we we

30:05just kept on saying that. Our vocabulary

30:07isn't that great. So we're still working

30:08on that.

30:09learning English.

30:10Yeah. English like a language and

30:11whatnot for all of us. So I do think

30:13that there is something to like not

30:14bending the knee to your audience in

30:16some capacity. Like it or not that's not

30:18even your audience that's going to get

30:19mad at you for saying females. It's like

30:20some random online hate mob.

30:22Um

30:24I don't know, dude. You know, it's

30:25funny. I also um

30:27shout out um

30:29somebody in my own personal life. Like I

30:30I called somebody a female and they like

30:32called me out on it. It was the first

30:33time I ever heard that that was like not

30:34something you should call a woman and I

30:36was like, "What? Is that like not an

30:37okay thing to call a woman?" And she was

30:39like, "No."

30:41And I was just like mind-blown. And then

30:43I asked a bunch of women in my own

30:45personal life. I'm like, "Can you call

30:46women females?" And they're like, "Eh,

30:48it's a little bit disrespectful this and

30:49that." I'm like, "When did this happen?

30:51Like I don't I didn't know that this was

30:53like this 5 years ago. Was it like a

30:55certain day that this happened? Was it a

30:56gradual progress in which like you can't

30:58call women females? I have no idea."

31:01Yeah, but would you call a female female

31:04to her face? Like if you're talking to a

31:06group of

31:07come over here. Yeah, you know, if

31:08you're talking to a group of girls,

31:09would you call them females? Hey

31:11females? Just in general like in

31:13conversation. Cuz I wouldn't know, I

31:14don't talk to girls, but would you?

31:17Would I call

31:19These questions, man. Would I call a

31:21woman

31:22in person a female?

31:24Like would you reference woman? Let's

31:25say you're having a discussion.

31:26I wouldn't talk with a filter.

31:28You know, and if female was the word

31:29that came to my mind, I would say it.

31:31And that's a two-sided uh what do you

31:34call it? Double-edged sword. It's like I

31:35generally don't speak with a filter. It

31:37gets me in a lot of trouble. Some people

31:39appreciate it cuz they know they're not

31:40getting some like weird abstract of

31:42Jack's Jack proxy. So I would say I mean

31:45if they were like, "Hey, don't call me a

31:47female." I'd be like, "I'm so sorry."

31:48And I'd probably end up doing it again

31:50on accident 5 minutes later. And I'd

31:51apologize again, but that's just it.

31:53That's fair. Yeah.

31:55I think I think that really is cuz it's

31:57like

31:58if you're talking about your friend and

32:00it's a girl and you're like

32:02"Hey, this female I was talking to." I

32:03mean that's kind of downplaying who they

32:05are. It's like, "Oh, well this Why why

32:07not just call them your friend?"

32:08It's only downplaying it if you like

32:10mean it to downplay them, I feel like.

32:13You know, I think words are just just a

32:15a proxy for like information. You know

32:17what I mean? And it's like the

32:19information that would include the

32:21surrounding like the meaning behind it,

32:24the feeling behind it. You know what I

32:25mean? And if you're

32:27encapsulating it with like with love and

32:28good intent, then I feel like you're

32:29fine. You know what I mean? If you call

32:31someone a female and they take offense

32:32to that, it's usually a reflection of

32:34themself. People's behavior is usually a

32:35reflection of themself, not necessarily

32:37of your actions to them. Um so I think

32:40it's fine. If they get upset, do them

32:42the respect of, you know, trying to

32:43change your language. Sure. TJ, what do

32:45you think? You talk to women all the

32:47time, I hear. Me? Yeah.

32:49I wouldn't call them a female. You got

32:51to You got to get rizzy with it, you

32:52know what I'm saying? Okay, so so what

32:53do you call them?

32:55Girls. Shorty. Shorty's a nice one.

32:57Shorty? But that's that's a little crazy

32:59though. I'd say girl.

33:01You'd say girl? Or their first But their

33:03first name, yeah. Okay. Yeah, we're not

33:05really sexist like you, you know. I

33:07don't think it's okay.

33:09Yeah, I wouldn't call it sexist. I would

33:11just say uh I would

33:13I would say I'm I'm glitched out. Mhm.

33:15Yeah, I'm not a agent of the Matrix.

33:18Look, it maybe it's super disrespectful.

33:20If so, flame me in the comments. Go

33:22ahead and I'll try to change my

33:23language. Do you have a lot of females

33:25in your life?

33:26Do you have a female in your life? Um

33:30I have plenty of women in my life. I

33:33have a mother, Okay.

33:34you know, uh Five females.

33:37Anne Frank.

33:40Grandma, my mom.

33:43Your mom, his mom. Let's go, Kyle. Let's

33:45go. He's good. Yeah. How's the dating

33:48life? The dating life? Um

33:52Dude, this has been like the biggest

33:54question for me. I've just been trying

33:56to figure it out. Yeah. And uh maybe I'm

33:58doing too much thinking and not enough

34:00acting.

34:01Um but that's I don't know. Maybe my

34:03standards are too high.

34:05Maybe there's a problem with me. I like

34:07to think that there isn't. Uh maybe

34:08there's a problem with Vegas. I don't

34:10know.

34:11Um a lot of the times I'll go on on

34:13dates with people

34:14and maybe I'm not giving them a fair

34:16shot,

34:17but I just don't like them that much.

34:20That's fair. You don't have to like

34:21everybody. Like that.

34:23Like no, no, no, like like I like their

34:24like their character's cool. Like I

34:25respect them and everything. I don't

34:27think that they're a bad person, but

34:28there's not like this

34:30this feeling. You know what I mean? And

34:32maybe I'm like I have this Hollywood

34:34portrayal of how relationships should be

34:36and it's just completely misaligned with

34:38how it is in real life. But that's just

34:40been my experience. It's like I very few

34:41times in my life have I talked to

34:44You're about to say it.

34:48Like

34:49You know what I mean? And had that like

34:51chemistry. That chemistry. Okay. Yeah.

34:54Yeah. I think it's good to have

34:55standards. There's nothing wrong with

34:56having them.

34:56mean that's you're you want somebody

34:58that you can get along with.

35:00Trying to be This is kind of like a you

35:02know a tough conversation to navigate.

35:04Like you know dating women, men, how

35:06they're different, how they're the same,

35:07and everything.

35:08Men.

35:09Men No, I'm just saying like dynamic you

35:11know relationship dynamics and stuff

35:12like that, man. TJ, you have anything to

35:14say about

35:15I had a question though. Do you think

35:17the I still watch is going to

35:20maybe attract the wrong type of females?

35:22No. You don't think so? No, I think this

35:25is attracting exactly who I want to have

35:26a person me. Are you kidding me, bro?

35:29This?

35:30No, 100% man. This is This is going to

35:32be a game changer. Um in fact, I should

35:35probably do like a photo shoot and like

35:36flex this and put it all up on my dating

35:38apps. Tinder specifically, you know.

35:40That's I think that's the way to find

35:42true love.

35:42Yeah, Vlad got a wife with a dissau. I

35:44don't have it on, but You don't have the

35:46dissau on? I don't have it upstairs. You

35:48don't want to flex on me. He's too

35:49intimidated.

35:50You were you were a little nervous,

35:51right? You

35:52in front of You couldn't compete. Now I

35:53get it. I get it. How did you find your

35:54wife? Uh it's a little different cuz it

35:57was like a a day one. Day one female.

35:59female? Day one female, yeah. Beautiful.

36:01Day one female?

36:03What would she think about you calling

36:04her a female? I think she's okay with

36:06it. It's not that deep. Um

36:08I just bro, I think it's so different

36:09cuz we're you so used to just being

36:10like, "Hey dude. Hey bro." It's just so

36:13normal for us to to refer to other men

36:16as men and dudes and bros and you know

36:19what not. And then it's like girls don't

36:21do that, I don't think. Also, I will say

36:23like I grew up with not a sister, didn't

36:26have a sister, didn't have any like

36:28super close, you know, fem- woman

36:31friends.

36:31Same. Super close like woman friends,

36:33you know what I mean? And all of my

36:35friends growing up were dudes. Like

36:37women were kind of this like scary

36:40unknown entity to me. Um I just grew up

36:42with a brother and a dad and a mom. Uh

36:44so I didn't really know how to talk to

36:45women my age or anything. So I feel like

36:46it's kind of

36:48like that could potentially make me, you

36:50know, have some weird like language, a

36:51weird perception of women. I could call

36:52them females and stuff like that. I

36:54don't know. You know what I mean? I do

36:55think though it really helps like grow

36:57up with like a girl neighbor and just

36:59like be friends with her or have a

37:01sister. Like all of that stuff really

37:03will help I think in the dating

37:04marketplace to like just know how to

37:06talk to women.

37:07Mhm. You know, and a lot of guys that

37:08don't have that, they just talk to women

37:09like they're some like alien like

37:10figure. And I definitely suffer from

37:12this. Like I talk to them like If you go

37:13through my texts, I have heard this so

37:15many times, "Jack, it sounds like you're

37:16trying to negotiate like a business

37:18deal." "Jack, it sounds like you're like

37:19talking to me like like a like this

37:21correspondence."

37:22Sure. I mean you could see you could see

37:23any of the texts that I have with any

37:25girl I'm talking to right now if you

37:26want. Give us the craziest one.

37:29Do you think girls are real?

37:34You know what? That's funny you ask

37:35that.

37:36Cuz I've been thinking about this a lot

37:37lately.

37:38They're kind of sus. I don't know.

37:39If women are real. They're like the

37:41birds, you know, the the birds they're

37:42the the bots they're the other bots.

37:44They're not

37:45the government. I think it's um I think

37:48they're agents of the matrix.

37:50I think that they're fake. I think they

37:51had too much red 40. It's a psyop. It's

37:53a psyop. It's all fake.

37:55Yeah. Um so I would be wary of them.

37:57That's why you text the way you do. How

37:59about this? At the end of the podcast,

38:00you guys can go through one of my chats

38:01with women. This is a retention hack,

38:03okay? And in the middle of the podcast,

38:04what we're going to do, most

38:05controversial take. Say it.

38:07I can't, bro. Yeah, they're not real.

38:09Agents of the matrix. Most controversial

38:11take. Say it.

38:13Well, we're getting canceled. Agents

38:15agents of the matrix. You guys will not

38:16say it. I'm a good servant of the

38:18matrix.

38:19My most controversial take.

38:20is it?

38:21This is going in the intro, by the way.

38:23Sure. I'll give you my most

38:24controversial take, and I'm probably

38:26going to get canceled for saying this.

38:28That's for the intro.

38:29Um

38:31Honestly,

38:32we had a good conversation on the Ice

38:34Coffee Hour about this. Not just

38:35shouting out my Everyone thinks like I'm

38:36just like

38:37shouting out my I'm not. I really am

38:39not. Um but we had a good conversation

38:41about like if people are poor, is it

38:44their fault? Mhm. And I think that's a

38:46super controversial take. And I don't

38:48think by and large, 100% of the time,

38:50yes, that it's your fault. But I am a

38:52proponent I am a positive thinker in so

38:54far as like I think people have way more

38:57control over their life than what they

38:59actually think. People think that they

39:00are just a product of their environment,

39:03of the people that they surround

39:04themselves by. They think that they are

39:06all of their past decisions. And I think

39:08no, any time is a great time to change

39:11and be exactly who you want to be. If

39:13you're mad, I genuinely think you can

39:15just stop like that.

39:17Wow. If you're angry, if you're sad over

39:19something, you can literally just be

39:20like, "Okay, I'm just going to brush

39:22this off. I think it's fine." You know

39:24what I mean? Yeah. And there are so many

39:25different mental models that can help

39:26you out with that. Like a lot of the

39:28times you're mad because you think

39:29somebody was malicious to you, they

39:31wanted to hurt you. A lot of the times I

39:32like to think, what is it called? It's

39:34some um mental model. I'll tell you what

39:36it is after the fact, you could just

39:37edit it in. But it's never I think it

39:39Napoleon Bonaparte actually was the

39:41first person that that said this this

39:43that was um never attribute to malice

39:46what could be attributed to

39:48carelessness.

39:49Mhm. Yeah. Carelessness, selfishness,

39:52incompetence, ignorance. A lot of people

39:55are just those things, including myself.

39:57And I don't want when I'm being careless

39:59or ignorant for somebody to think that I

40:01was being malicious, cuz I really am not

40:03a malicious person. Like I want to help

40:04people. And you guys are all the same.

40:05And basically every person viewing this

40:07is exactly the same. Like people aren't

40:09doing things to hurt you.

40:10Yeah, I think at the end of the day it's

40:12like you can disagree with that, but you

40:14also have to think whether adopting this

40:17uh mindset is more beneficial than

40:19adopting the opposite. And I think it's

40:21hard to say that

40:23it's more beneficial for you to adopt a

40:25mindset where you don't think you have

40:27as much control over like your future

40:29and all.

40:29It's harder to adopt that mindset?

40:31think it's as beneficial. Why? Wait,

40:33wait. That you don't have control.

40:35Like the initial thing that you said,

40:36right? That you don't have control. At

40:38the end of the day like I I don't think

40:40that you have 100% control of your life,

40:41right?

40:42course.

40:43But if you think that you have no

40:45control and that everything that happens

40:47you're just a victim I I like that's not

40:49going to get

40:50you anywhere. And it's not a loving

40:51thing to tell people that. Yeah. Like

40:52that's not going to get them where they

40:54want to be. It is like kind of a hateful

40:56thing. It's kind of like pushing them

40:57down. Yeah, you're this way because of

40:59all these things that you can't control.

41:01So, I like to think you point the finger

41:02of responsibility not at everything

41:04else, but at yourself because that's

41:05like also the finger of power. You know,

41:07you're giving the power to yourself.

41:09This is my responsibility to change my

41:10life. It's nobody else's. Nobody's going

41:12to fix my life, only me. And the only

41:13time to start is right now.

41:15Yeah, I'd agree with that. Can you give

41:16us an actual like controversial take

41:18though? That is super controversial.

41:20Like you probably cuz you have a hustle

41:22like audience everyone's like, yeah, I'm

41:23going to take control of my own life.

41:24Everything's going to be cool. Start

41:25drop shipping and move to Dubai. Like

41:26Let's go.

41:30I think that's controversial. I'll give

41:31you some more. I mean there obviously

41:32there are certain things I probably

41:34shouldn't say cuz I'm an agent of the

41:35matrix and matrix. We're all in the

41:37matrix. I'm happy to say it. Like I have

41:39no I'm not uncomfortable saying these

41:41sorts of things. I'm obviously not going

41:42to say anything that's going to cancel

41:43me. Mhm. Um But you do believe in a lot

41:46of things that are going to get you

41:47canceled. Like in your life. Yeah, and

41:49everyone does.

41:51Specifically men.

41:52Like if you

41:53let's be real here.

41:55Say so. Say something crazy. Let's be

41:56real here. Like there are certain things

41:58that you don't say around certain people

42:00and then you break that wall and you say

42:02a certain thing in front of them that

42:03you think they're going to get mad at

42:04you for saying. They're like, huh, yeah,

42:05yeah.

42:07Is that wrong? I mean, should should we

42:09just be honest and just speak our mind?

42:11Yes.

42:13Yes. Be honest.

42:14This isn't a

42:15objective yes. Be honest with yourself

42:17and with the people around you. But you

42:19still wouldn't say everything that you

42:20believe in.

42:20Not publicly. No. No, because I'm I'm

42:22also running a business. So

42:24True. Yeah.

42:24Like let's

42:26You know, like

42:27what good am I if I'm like deplatformed

42:29or whatever that even means. You know

42:30what I mean?

42:31So your honest takes would get you

42:33deplatformed.

42:39Would yours? Yeah.

42:41There you go.

42:42Probably. Probably me, too. If I was

42:43100% honest about all the things that I

42:45believe in.

42:46Yeah.

42:46I don't know about deplatformed, to be

42:48honest, but Yeah, okay. Deplatformed.

42:50People would have an issue. Yeah, I

42:51wouldn't get deplatformed. The more hard

42:52opinion opinions you have, the more you

42:53have people agreeing and disagreeing

42:55with you. Yeah.

42:55Again, it's like Is there any benefit to

42:57you airing those things out? Probably

42:59not. No, cuz what good am I if, you

43:00know, like if I'm if I'm gone? Yeah. So

43:02another controversial opinion. I want I

43:04want to give you one more. One more

43:05juicy controversial opinion.

43:08Um everybody thinks that they have

43:11like mental illnesses.

43:13And I think a lot of them are mental

43:16illness proxies, if that makes sense.

43:19Yeah, I agree. Yeah. So like I, growing

43:22up, I've always thought I had ADHD. Like

43:24as a kid Yeah. As a kid, like I

43:27like I struggled to remember things.

43:28That's like a big thing of ADHD. It's

43:30like I would leave my homework in

43:31certain places. Not on purpose, but I

43:33would just leave it at school and then

43:35have to go and I was friends with the

43:36janitor because every single time that

43:38my mom would pick me up and we're

43:38driving back to my house, she's like,

43:39"Did you remember your homework?" And I

43:40said, "No." She'd have to drive me back,

43:42go talk to Gary the janitor. He'd be

43:44like, "Which class did you leave it in?"

43:45He'd walk me over to the class, open up

43:47the door, and I grab my homework. Um

43:49other random things. Focusing. Struggled

43:51so much with it growing up. And I'm sure

43:53a lot of people watching this relate. Um

43:55or maybe in the past couple of years

43:57you've had struggles with these things.

43:59Um I think

44:00when I say mental illness proxies,

44:03it's because of the environment that we

44:04put ourselves in, which is our

44:06responsibility, realistically. Like you

44:08are responsible for the environment you

44:09put yourself in. If you're spending all

44:11of your time on TikTok, you're spending

44:12all of your time just giving yourself

44:14stimulation in every way possible, then

44:17yeah, like you're going to have focus

44:19problems. You're going to stop

44:21remembering things because your brain is

44:22going to be elsewhere and time is going

44:23to be passing when you're not growing.

44:25You're just probably, if anything,

44:26degrading your brain. So, like, sure,

44:29you're going to have a proxy for mental

44:30illness. And I think this goes across

44:31the board for a lot of different mental

44:33illnesses. And we actually had Dr. K,

44:35who's a Harvard psychiatrist on our

44:36podcast, and he said,

44:38um people say autism rates are going up,

44:40which I think there is data um affirming

44:42that, but a lot of it has to do with

44:45like proxy autism. People have symptoms

44:47of autism without actually having the

44:50fundamental chemical imbalance of autism

44:53because of the way that our environments

44:55are changing and the way that we're

44:56spending our time. Wow.

44:58I don't know about autism and things

44:59like that, but the ADHD thing, I think

45:01is a really big one. I mean, everybody's

45:03getting diagnosed with ADHD ADHD or even

45:05self-diagnosing, and it's like, of

45:08course, I mean, you're on TikTok all

45:09day, and it's like

45:10What did you think was going to happen?

45:11Do you think like a lot of these

45:13perceived mental illnesses can be solved

45:14by just going outside, going to the gym?

45:17Dude, there are so many basic things

45:20that we could be doing to improve our

45:22own lives that people just knock to the

45:23wayside every single day. Going outside,

45:26taking off your shoes and socks, getting

45:28grounded.

45:30Uh just watch some Liver King videos,

45:31guys. That's what you got to do. Now, I

45:33would say, like, you know, don't wake up

45:35and go immediately on your phone. Sleep

45:37with your phone on the other side of

45:38your room or outside of your room. Um

45:40I heard drinking coffee not right after

45:42you wake up is smart. I don't know. I'm

45:44not a scientist. I don't know if that

45:46backs it up. I can just say what's

45:47worked for me in my own personal life.

45:48Don't go on your phone immediately after

45:49you go to bed. Uh or sorry, right after

45:51you wake up. Don't go on your phone

45:53immediately before you go to bed. Don't

45:55spend a bunch of time on TikTok, YouTube

45:56Shorts on your phone.

45:57Try to keep your like screen time under

45:59probably 3 hours a day, which is also

46:01just ridiculous that I even have to say

46:03that. Like 3 hours a day is

46:05it's an eighth of So, like let's say

46:07from 0 to 80, that's 10 years of your

46:09life that you're just going to be on

46:10your phone rather than experiencing what

46:11actually exists. This doesn't exist.

46:13Um

46:15going to the gym, working on your

46:16physical fitness and health,

46:18Mhm.

46:18cardio, not skipping out on cardio,

46:20which is something I personally do I

46:21need to work out work on. Um and having

46:24good relationships. I mean, like being

46:26around people and being social and

46:28having friends that you can count on.

46:29That will drastically improve your way

46:31of life. And also, not having an

46:33ideological perspective. Like don't find

46:35some ideology, find some person online,

46:37some dogmatic person like Tate, like

46:39Justin Waller, like I don't know who's

46:41on the probably like H3H3. Kind Well,

46:43actually I said he was Destiny. Uh

46:45Destiny maybe? He's also pretty

46:47independent. Yeah, yeah. Um I don't

46:49know, just people online and just be

46:50like everything that they say is right.

46:52Mhm. Don't do that cuz

46:54it isn't, you know, think for yourself.

46:56Now, did you ever actually get diagnosed

46:58with ADHD? I did. Yeah. Now, that was

47:00when I was younger. Um I probably was

47:02pretty late to the train anyways. I was

47:03probably like 18 maybe.

47:05Mhm.

47:06Um and then I started taking Adderall

47:08and I was taking it every single day.

47:09Mhm.

47:10Um you you take Adderall? No. Any of you

47:13guys been diagnosed with ADHD? I haven't

47:14been diagnosed.

47:15Do you know a friend with ADHD?

47:16Yeah. Yeah. And do they take Adderall?

47:18Yeah. Do they act differently?

47:20Uh yeah, yeah. No, I have some friends

47:22that took Adderall and then they they

47:23had they got off it and it was a really

47:25bad experience. To get off of it? Were

47:28they addicted?

47:28Yeah. Interesting.

47:30So, I took it every day with increasing

47:34dosages. I went all the way up to 20 mg

47:36of XR per day

47:38um for probably about a year and a half

47:40of my life. And then a very close friend

47:42of mine, say his name his name is Jack

47:44as well. He's the guy I'm going on that

47:45vacation with. Um he was like, "Dude, by

47:48the way, you're kind of hard to be

47:49around when you're on Adderall." Wow.

47:51It's just different. And he said that

47:53and it struck me. I I like, you know,

47:55hearing this from somebody that you know

47:57is in your court at all times, I'm going

48:00to trust him.

48:01I'm 100% going to trust this guy. He is

48:03like my best friend. He's always been

48:05with me since I was four. Mhm. I'm like,

48:07okay. All I needed to hear, and I quit

48:09cold turkey. Wow. How was that?

48:11Yeah, no withdrawals? No. Like, I I also

48:13I do think that there are genetic

48:15genetic dispositions to uh addictive

48:18nature. Um and I don't think I really

48:19have an addictive nature. It's always

48:21been kind of easy for me to just like

48:23quit things. Not that I've tried many

48:24things I would You know, I'd be addicted

48:25to caffeine, maybe. Um but yeah, I

48:28didn't have any withdrawal symptoms. I

48:30literally just I had the pill bottle and

48:31I was like, "Okay, that's an easy

48:32decision." I just never really felt the

48:34urge to get back on it. Um I do still

48:36have the prescription. And now I realize

48:39going completely off of it probably

48:40wasn't a smart idea, too, because I do

48:43have ADHD.

48:45Um so, I do take it maybe once every

48:47Mhm. Two, three weeks. I'm prescribed

48:50for more than I take. I take probably 3

48:52mg when I do take it, just a minute

48:54amount. Um and that's it.

48:57Do you ever miss it? Like, did it help

48:59you lock in and focus? Cuz I hear it's

49:00like a big thing in colleges. You got to

49:02start taking it for exams, all of this.

49:04Yeah, yeah, sure. I mean, everyone It

49:06does help, obviously. Like, it makes you

49:07focus. But here's the weird part.

49:10The time that

49:11in my life when I was taking Adderall, I

49:13don't even remember it. Whoa. I was

49:16disassociating was a big one. A big

49:18problem, I think, is that I had like

49:21acute, not real, like but I think I had

49:23acute uh depression.

49:25And that's why I went to actually go see

49:26a psychiatrist. And then they prescribed

49:29me Adderall, uh cuz they also saw I had

49:31ADHD. And a big symptom of my depression

49:34that I was experiencing was like I was

49:35falling asleep all of the time. And so,

49:37I would go to class, I would come back,

49:38I would sleep on the couch, go to class,

49:40come back, sleep on the couch again.

49:42Mhm. Go back to my final class, come

49:43back, sleep on the couch, and then sleep

49:44throughout the entire night, wake up, go

49:45back to class. I was just sleeping all

49:47of the time. So, they also gave me

49:48Adderall to stay awake throughout the

49:49day.

49:50Um and then I saw it also fixed all

49:52these problems that I had suffered for

49:53from my entire life. So, I was just

49:54like, "Adderall fixes this? More

49:56Adderall. More Adderall. More Adderall."

49:58You know, like I'm getting good results,

50:00so why not take more?

50:01Um, and then I had that, you know,

50:02conversation with my with my friend, and

50:04I just I just quit.

50:06What would you say you were like when

50:07you were on it?

50:10Um, I would say hyper-analytical.

50:14Okay.

50:14Like hyper-analytical. Very, very deep.

50:17Very just like a lot. Like you don't

50:19want to hang out with a friend that all

50:21of the time is just like, "Dude, and

50:22then this, and then this, and then just

50:23like and you're just like, "Dude, can we

50:24just like chill?"

50:26Yeah. Can we just like play Smash or

50:27something like that? Like

50:29why does it have to why does everything

50:30have to be so deep, you know? And and

50:31just like that. And honestly kind of

50:33void of having a personality, honestly.

50:35But I was happy. Like you take it and

50:37you have all these endorphins running

50:38through your body and it makes you feel

50:40good. It makes you want to, you know,

50:42like I remember there was a period of

50:43time

50:44like I hadn't felt this way in such a

50:45long time, and then I took Adderall.

50:47Um, just like sheer bliss throughout my

50:49entire body. I was skateboarding back

50:50from class. I was just listening to

50:52music, and I was just skateboarding. I

50:54was just like, "I feel like tingles all

50:56over my body because I'm just like I

50:57just feel happiness. Like the sun is

51:00feeling extra bright today. Like the the

51:02temperature is perfect.

51:03selling it pretty good.

51:05I don't want to sell it because I

51:06stopped, right? I stopped. Um,

51:11Yeah.

51:12the best day of my life. But I just felt

51:14bliss. But if I look back, hardly

51:16remember anything from when I was taking

51:18Adderall. Honestly, it was just like a

51:20blip in the timeline. Yeah, I don't know

51:21much about it either, but you know, I I

51:23know some have I know some people that

51:25were on it for a long time, you know?

51:28And after they got off of it, it took

51:30them a long time to really get their

51:32like mojo back just to be happy.

51:34Like just really to get yourself to do

51:35something without it,

51:37to feel something without it was really,

51:39really difficult for them. So, it and it

51:41took like

51:42maybe a year or two to to like really

51:44just get back and like enjoy just

51:45walking outside and like enjoy good

51:48getting to work and getting things done.

51:49So that to me sounds like they were kind

51:52of abusing it. Yeah.

51:53In a sense.

51:54were. It was it was like It wasn't a

51:55crutch. It was like something that they

51:57relied on. They were addicted to it.

51:59Yeah. And they weren't being intentional

52:01about it.

52:01I think a lot of people are addicted to

52:03it. I mean with all these prescriptions

52:04it's so easy. I mean you you didn't get

52:06addicted to it which is great, but a lot

52:08of people are. It's so accessible. I

52:10wasn't intentional about it which I

52:11think is like one of the first steps to

52:12addiction. It's like when you're not

52:14thinking about it and it's kind of just

52:15becoming this like subconscious thought.

52:19This thing that it doesn't even occur to

52:20you. Kind of like when with people with

52:21like with vapes. I know a lot of it

52:23actually isn't the nicotine but it's the

52:24oral fixation.

52:26And when you feel like you just need to

52:26have something in your mouth. Like that

52:28is this just like driving factor that's

52:30bringing you to it and I think that's

52:32kind of the same with like Adderall.

52:33It's kind of like the unintentional just

52:34like need to have something in my mouth

52:36starts the addiction and then you become

52:38reliant on the substance itself. Yeah.

52:40Yeah, that's why I I hear people do like

52:41lollipops to quit vape. Lollipops,

52:44chewing gum. Yeah. Is another one. Yeah.

52:47Yeah, I don't think I've ever shared

52:48this publicly, but I feel like if I

52:51went to a doctor

52:53when I was young, I'd probably get

52:54diagnosed with some. Cuz I remember

52:56Some.

52:57I remember listening to

52:58on some sort of spectrum cuz I remember

53:00listening to your podcast and you guys

53:02had someone on and they mentioned that

53:04they were diagnosed with something and

53:05they had this thing where they had to

53:06like

53:07close the door five times. They had to

53:09turn a light switch off and on like five

53:11times.

53:11OCD. OCD? It's probably OCD. Cuz I I

53:14remember growing up I had that where

53:16like I have to do it like I throw a ball

53:18I have to do it a few more times until I

53:19hit the number of members in my family

53:21or like everyone's going to die. I have

53:22to hit hit the switch. Yeah.

53:25That's You've never talked about this

53:26before? I've not like publicly I've

53:28talked about it like

53:29And has that stopped?

53:31Yeah.

53:32That definitely

53:33work on it? Did you pray about it or

53:34something? I don't they just naturally

53:36like as I grew up it stopped. But if I

53:37went to a doctor at that point, like I

53:39probably would have got prescribed to

53:40something. Yeah, you could have

53:42prescribed something and then it like I

53:44think the prescription kind of like

53:46elongates that thing and I think like a

53:47lot of people they take Adderall and

53:49then they get the ADHD proxy when

53:51they're off of Adderall. So it's

53:52probably a good thing that you didn't

53:54get medicated.

53:54I just

53:56thugged it out.

53:56That's crazy. So you thought you

53:57literally thought your family was going

53:59to die.

54:00I don't think

54:01I don't know if I literally thought it

54:02but it's something that I just I had to

54:04do.

54:04a ball against the wall a couple of

54:05times. Wow. Light switches the ball. And

54:08it's crazy cuz I I kind of

54:10self-diagnosed when I was listening to

54:11your podcast. Like you had someone on

54:13that mentioned that I don't remember

54:15that episode. I had so many

54:15conversations.

54:16somebody Oh, it might have been on Joe

54:18Rogan actually. My bad.

54:19But That's a that's a pretty common

54:21thing. It's like Yeah, so it's like Can

54:23you diagnose me real quick?

54:25So uh I am a medical professional.

54:30Immediately 20 mg Adderall a day.

54:33Uh red 40 every single day.

54:36A gallon of tap. Let's go.

54:38I mean that sounds to me like um like

54:42OCD. I recently watched you know Soft

54:44White Underbelly. Yeah, I love it. So

54:45they had on a girl with OCD and she was

54:48talking about all of these things and

54:49it's like very similar to that. So it

54:51sounds like it but it's great it went

54:53away. Like that that gives me a lot of

54:55hope that you know hopefully things just

54:56kind of go away, right?

54:58Uh I should watch that. Yeah, I'll send

55:00I'll send it to you. That's cool though.

55:01I I had no idea. That's such an

55:03interesting thing.

55:03Yeah, that is weird. Have you guys ever

55:04felt that?

55:06Yeah. Like when I was a child I felt

55:07kind of the same thing. So what was

55:09yours? Like if I was like playing

55:10basketball I had to make the last shot

55:12before I went inside, you know? But

55:13that's Oh, that's that's I think that's

55:15a I I cuz I mean every guy for Are you

55:17downplaying his mental uh My my OCD?

55:21What

55:23What would happen if you didn't make

55:24that last shot?

55:25The whole world just would just explode.

55:27Oh, really? No, you're just making that

55:28up in your head. You're kind of like oh,

55:30I 30 seconds left on the clock. I got to

55:31make this. No, it wasn't that tragic but

55:34yeah, no Not too crazy.

55:36Yeah, and I feel like everybody

55:38experiences some levels of it, but if

55:40you get fixated on it, so like

55:42I could claim OCD too. Like whenever I

55:44growing up or even right now, certain

55:46things on my nightstand have to be in a

55:47particular way, you know, set up. And if

55:49it's like my watch is like a little off,

55:51I have to fix it and make sure it's

55:52straight, you know. And it's like, do I

55:53have OCD? Maybe.

55:55Adderall, brother.

55:56You know, so I don't know.

55:58That's interesting. I mean, I had this I

56:00had the same basketball thing. It's like

56:02if I don't make this last shot, like

56:03probably something really bad is going

56:05to happen, but at the very bare minimum,

56:07next time I play basketball, I'm going

56:08to be a lot worse. That's kind of like

56:09my logic with that. I feel like a lot of

56:11a lot of people have that basketball

56:12thing. People, down below in the comment

56:14section, comment if you uh feel like you

56:16have to make the last basketball shot.

56:17It's a crazy conversation, but we might

56:19as well just go with it.

56:20Um speaking about all of this, uh what

56:22do you think about therapy? You know, if

56:24you're going to therapy

56:26and you're talking to these guys and

56:28they tell you that you do have OCD, you

56:29do have ADHD, is it good for everybody

56:32to explore these little things in their

56:35in their life and think get fixated on

56:37them and then try to fix them?

56:39I don't think that you should get

56:40fixated on it. I don't think it's a good

56:41thing to identify with it. Like even for

56:44me, like I don't like like identifying

56:47as somebody who has been afflicted with

56:50ADHD. You know what I mean? I just kind

56:51of think that it's something, right? And

56:53I shouldn't be ignorant of it because it

56:54does have an effect on me, so I should

56:55learn how I can use that to my

56:57advantage.

56:58Um in the same way, I don't think like

57:00if you think that you're suffering from

57:00something, just don't think that you

57:01that's like an infection in you.

57:03Um but I do think it's probably a good

57:05idea to explore it if it's affecting

57:08your life in a net negative way, right?

57:10Like always try to make everything in

57:12your life affect you in a net positive

57:14way. If you have somebody in your life,

57:16like a relationship with somebody in

57:17your life, and you know, like it's good,

57:19but it's also bad, but it's mostly bad,

57:20stop it or fix it. Same thing for, you

57:23know, if you're suffering from maybe

57:24some perceived mental illness, it's

57:26like, okay, net negative, fix it or

57:29yeah, seek help. I did see something

57:31actually, it's really interesting.

57:32Um

57:35Scrolling TikTok mid-pod.

57:39Uh it's it's funny actually, I just got

57:41a text from uh from a girl.

57:43Let's go home, W. Let us help you with

57:45the reply. She texts me, "Hi, it's

57:47Natasha from Insta." And I just forgot

57:49to respond. That was yesterday. And then

57:51she said, "Sorry it took me so long."

57:53You got to be nonchalant. You got to be

57:54All right, let's think of a nonchalant

57:56You lost your chance. Next.

57:58That was my bad. I just I did not smile.

58:00I should have responded. Let me Let me

58:01find this um This might take a second.

58:04El Riz.

58:06Bro, you're in a good spot. The double

58:08text, leave leave her on read. Give it

58:10another day and then be like, "Sorry, I

58:12was super busy. Just lots of business

58:14stuff. I got motion." So, here's a

58:16screenshot I found on therapy. I found

58:18it really interesting and Elon Musk has

58:19to do with this too. So, that's a little

58:21retention thing.

58:22This guy, Matt Van Swoll, posted also

58:24you guys a screenshot. "Super hot take.

58:26The normalization of therapy is becoming

58:28a bad thing for society. I'm seeing more

58:30and more people one, use the fact that

58:32they are in therapy as a get out of jail

58:34free card for awful behavior. Two,

58:37believe everything their therapist says

58:38as gospel truth with no further research

58:41required. Three, equate the act of going

58:43to therapy with the actions of being a

58:45good person."

58:47Now, I'm not saying therapy is bad for

58:49everyone, but I am seeing a trend of

58:51less personal responsibility for bad

58:52behavior and a lot more talk about

58:54therapy as the only solution.

58:57Elon Musk responded to that

58:59with this emoji.

59:01Mm, target emoji. Yeah, bull's eye.

59:04And I do think that that's true. I think

59:05a lot of people think that if they go to

59:07therapy, it's like it does equate you to

59:10you like being a good person and like

59:12solving the problem, which I think it

59:14does contribute to solving the solving

59:15the problem. But you also don't want to

59:17think everything your therapist is

59:19saying is gospel truth and that they can

59:21also like fix your problems. You need to

59:23take responsibility for your problems.

59:25They're just supposed to help bring it

59:27out of you. So, Yeah, what's the

59:28criteria to become a therapist? Well,

59:31as a therapist myself,

59:34I think you have to go to school, I

59:36hope. Uh I have no idea. Is it like a

59:38certification or is it like a four-year

59:39degree? Why don't we find out? That's

59:42TJ. Do you have to TJ, is that you?

59:43Yeah, Jamie, pull it up.

59:45it up. But even if you do have to get

59:47some sort of schooling, at the end of

59:48the day, it's just the person. And like

59:49this person can diagnose you with

59:51something, give you life-altering

59:52medication. So, I feel like at the very

59:54late at the very least you have to go to

59:56a couple before you hop on something

59:57like that.

59:59All right. Uh Jamie in the cut. To

1:00:02become a licensed therapist in Nevada,

1:00:03individuals must complete a graduate

1:00:05degree in counseling or or or a related

1:00:08field, complete supervised clinical

1:00:10hours, and a a pass a licensing exam.

1:00:13Okay. Now, I do wonder if there ways you

1:00:15can like skirt it, like online

1:00:16education, ChatGPT. I don't know.

1:00:19Um I would say like, you know, they

1:00:20should be pretty educated if you're like

1:00:22a licensed therapist. I would say for

1:00:23diagnoses, could be completely wrong,

1:00:25could be sounding like an idiot, but I

1:00:26think you should probably go to a

1:00:27psychiatrist. I there I think there's a

1:00:29difference as far as like the schooling

1:00:31goes with that. Um but I could be wrong.

1:00:34Therapists can't prescribe.

1:00:35Um No, I don't think so. I don't think I

1:00:38think they can refer you. Okay.

1:00:40Yeah, and then with a strong referral to

1:00:41a psychiatrist, that can then prescribe,

1:00:44I think. Yeah. I I agree with what you

1:00:46just read out out loud. I mean, it's

1:00:48I think it can be just like a cop-out,

1:00:50you know? Oh, I'm working on it, you

1:00:52know? I'm going to therapy. And it's

1:00:53like I'm just It's kind of like going to

1:00:55church. Like, "Oh, yeah, I'm working on

1:00:56it. I'm I'm going to church." And you

1:00:57can clock in two hours a week, go to

1:00:59church, but that doesn't mean anything.

1:01:01Mhm. What's Okay, so like how do you how

1:01:03do you fix the problem then?

1:01:04The the therapy problem? Like the mental

1:01:06health problem?

1:01:06Well, well, yeah. How do you how do you

1:01:08fix the mental health issues then?

1:01:10I think it would probably have to do

1:01:11with like

1:01:13the basics, like treating yourself

1:01:14right.

1:01:15The thing is they don't want to do that.

1:01:16Like like they don't want to accept that

1:01:17that's the the the the solution to their

1:01:20problem, you know? Right. Cuz we have a

1:01:22society nowadays that props up victims

1:01:25and the more of a victim you are, the

1:01:27more powerful you are, the more your

1:01:29words should mean, the more people are

1:01:31supposed to like respect you and

1:01:32empathize you and everything and I don't

1:01:33think that's a good idea. I think that

1:01:35you should sure, feel for victims of

1:01:37certain things that are actually real.

1:01:39Like there are victims here and mental

1:01:41illness does make you a victim for sure

1:01:43in some capacity. But A, do you want to

1:01:46see yourself as a victim and B, do you

1:01:48want to make the victims the people like

1:01:50the heroes, the people of power? It's

1:01:52like probably not. Like you want to

1:01:54continue to get closer to the heroes, to

1:01:56the people of power, like the people

1:01:59that are spreading positivity and like

1:02:00you know,

1:02:01I don't know, just

1:02:03not suffering in some capacity.

1:02:05Have you tried the therapy? I have,

1:02:07yeah.

1:02:07Okay. Uh a few different therapies. So I

1:02:10had a therapy through my insurance. I

1:02:11had a therapy Uh I actually went to

1:02:14therapy when I was sleeping all the time

1:02:15cuz I I knew something was wrong with

1:02:16me. I didn't know what it was. Um and I

1:02:19figured it probably had to do with ADHD.

1:02:20My brother has ADHD as well. So I was

1:02:22like, okay, this probably makes sense.

1:02:24Um and then that therapist told me,

1:02:26okay, like that was through the school

1:02:28and she was like, you should go to a

1:02:29like one through your insurance and I

1:02:30was like, okay. Um and then I went

1:02:32through one for my insurance and then

1:02:34she referred me to a psychiatrist and

1:02:36then I was in another uh I had another

1:02:38therapist uh for a little bit of time. I

1:02:40haven't had a therapist for a long time.

1:02:42Like all of my therapy sessions have

1:02:43been like a few months, maybe six max.

1:02:45Um and then I actually I do BetterHelp.

1:02:49No way. Yeah. You're not affiliated with

1:02:52You get high on your own supply? Yeah. I

1:02:54I I I I I I I I I like it. Wow.

1:02:56It's It's good. I mean, it's online, so

1:02:57I just log in. It's super easy. You just

1:02:59like chat with your therapist and you

1:03:00can send messages. Okay.

1:03:02Um do video calls and stuff like that.

1:03:04And if you don't like them, you can

1:03:05switch your therapist Immediately.

1:03:07Can you achieve the same thing just by

1:03:09having some good friends around you and

1:03:11having some time to talk to your friends

1:03:12and family? What if you just thug it

1:03:14out? What do you What do you think about

1:03:15thugging it out? Just ignore it. Just

1:03:17duck it. I mean, I think that there is

1:03:20like

1:03:21peace, like inner peace in being like,

1:03:23"Nah, I don't have those things." Kind

1:03:24of. Yeah, okay. If you truly believe

1:03:27that you do not have those things. If

1:03:28you truly believe that, I do think that

1:03:30that is kind of helping out with that

1:03:32problem. Kind of. Unless if you're like,

1:03:34"Nah, I don't have all these things

1:03:36going on." but you consistently find

1:03:38yourself in the same place. Like, okay,

1:03:40are you better or worse having that

1:03:41belief system? Let's look at this not

1:03:44through an ideological lens. Let's not

1:03:45look through this through like an

1:03:46opinion-based lens. Let's look at the

1:03:48stat sheet. Where's your weight at? You

1:03:50know, where's your muscles at now versus

1:03:53back then? Where's your overall

1:03:54happiness if you're tracking your

1:03:55happiness at now versus then? What about

1:03:57your relationships with your friends,

1:03:58with your family, stuff like that? Your

1:04:00your career, how's that at now before

1:04:03then? And if it hasn't changed at all or

1:04:04if it's gotten worse, then it's like,

1:04:06okay, let's try to look at the problem

1:04:07and just do process of elimination. How

1:04:09can we solve this and try trying out

1:04:10different results? So, you say all of

1:04:12this and you bring up that tweet and how

1:04:13Elon Musk agrees with that, but then on

1:04:16your podcast, I've noticed you'll

1:04:17promote something like BetterHelp. Do

1:04:19you have like an ethical dilemma with

1:04:20that? I do not have an ethical dilemma

1:04:22with that because I've seen good results

1:04:25with BetterHelp. And that's because I

1:04:27think I'm being really intentional about

1:04:28it. I think the whole idea of this tweet

1:04:30is being unintentional about therapy and

1:04:32equating going to therapy about being a

1:04:34good person, and it's not. It's like,

1:04:36okay, you have to be intentional in

1:04:38therapy, like actually thinking about

1:04:40all of the tools that they give you

1:04:41outside of therapy to see a good result.

1:04:43I I think like therapy can be good for

1:04:46sure for a lot of people, but a lot of

1:04:48people it's bad for them because it

1:04:49masks their real problem. So, for me

1:04:52it's working and so I continue to do it

1:04:53and I've had great results so far. So, I

1:04:56would encourage like close friends of

1:04:57mine that I feel like it would make

1:04:58sense for it um to try it out. Yeah.

1:05:02You tried it? I haven't tried it.

1:05:03You've never been in therapy? I've never

1:05:05been in therapy, no. How about you? No.

1:05:08Never. My therapy is like

1:05:11prayer, honestly. Yeah, that's good. And

1:05:13it works for you. Yeah. Right? Yeah, and

1:05:15I mean for me I've I haven't been to

1:05:17like a licensed therapist, but I have

1:05:18like met with like mentors and like

1:05:20people from church. Pastors, yeah. And

1:05:23maybe that's my version of that. Uh but

1:05:25with promoting something like

1:05:26BetterHelp,

1:05:28you're also kind of

1:05:30glorifying and pushing this idea of

1:05:32therapy, right? I see a lot of

1:05:33And I don't mean to put that on you, but

1:05:35I I also see a lot of like TikToks and

1:05:37whatnot. Everybody's glorifying mental

1:05:39illness and glorifying um I think that's

1:05:42different. You think that's different?

1:05:43Glorifying solutions, you know, well,

1:05:47if used appropriately and

1:05:49like and you have the intent, then it is

1:05:52a solution. Like that should help,

1:05:54right? Like talking about your problems

1:05:55and having an expert in that field

1:05:56helping you walk through your emotions.

1:05:58If you got a good therapist, yes, it

1:05:59will help. But it depends with your It

1:06:01depends it's a very nuanced argument,

1:06:03but it depends about your relationship

1:06:05with therapy. If it's a good

1:06:07relationship, keep doing it. But a lot

1:06:09of people, like this tweet, have a bad

1:06:11relationship with therapy.

1:06:13Yeah, I can I can definitely see how it

1:06:14could be a net positive if like you

1:06:16really do need the therapy and you're

1:06:18just nervous about going to a therapist,

1:06:19then What do you think about therapy? Um

1:06:21I do agree with that tweet. I think I

1:06:24think it's a little dangerous to just

1:06:26blindly follow what a therapist tells

1:06:29you. Mhm. To just make that your god and

1:06:32like just blindly follow this uh

1:06:34individual cuz at the end of the day

1:06:35they're just a person. It's the same way

1:06:37that if I had something serious like

1:06:39health-wise, I don't think I would trust

1:06:41a single doctor to tell me like, you

1:06:43know, that I have this or that or place

1:06:45a diagnosis on me cuz they could be

1:06:47wrong. So you kind of got to

1:06:48I agree with that, 100% without a doubt.

1:06:51But that depends on your relationship

1:06:53with therapy. It's not a problem with

1:06:54therapy itself.

1:06:56Cuz you get therapy from different

1:06:57areas, right? But as

1:07:00I I don't know if I'm answering your

1:07:01question, but at the end of the day like

1:07:03I think your therapist really matters.

1:07:05Like who the person is, right? Cuz like

1:07:07you might have had a great experience,

1:07:08but somebody goes to somebody less

1:07:10qualified or somebody that doesn't have

1:07:12as good of intentions and that could

1:07:14ruin your life.

1:07:15But is that a problem with therapy in

1:07:16and of itself, or is that a problem with

1:07:18your relationship with therapy?

1:07:20That's the model

1:07:21therapy model.

1:07:23Yeah, I guess your relationship with

1:07:25therapy is That's a good point, yeah.

1:07:27get therapy in other areas, right? Maybe

1:07:29it's not from a therapist, but it's

1:07:30people kind of acting as a proxy for a

1:07:32therapist, right? And a therapist, you

1:07:34could even argue, "Okay, well, they've

1:07:35studied it. They have all these other

1:07:37clients, all this information, all this

1:07:38data. How can we use this to help out

1:07:40this person?"

1:07:41And so sure, there are bad therapists,

1:07:42100%. And they will they can ruin you,

1:07:45100%. Yeah.

1:07:47Um I don't think that there's a problem

1:07:49with therapy. I think that there's a

1:07:50problem with people's relationships. And

1:07:51I think that these people that probably

1:07:53wrote this tweet would agree, you know?

1:07:55I don't think you should completely

1:07:56ignore your problems, especially if over

1:07:58time you see your problems getting worse

1:08:00and you're in therapy, right? Then it's

1:08:02probably either your therapist, maybe

1:08:04you're using therapy as, you know, as

1:08:06gospel. Maybe you think that that's

1:08:07solving the problem, but it's not. So

1:08:09like re-evaluate, for sure. But if

1:08:11you're struggling with something and you

1:08:12see it get worse and worse and worse and

1:08:13you try all these solutions and they

1:08:14don't get better, then I would recommend

1:08:17therapy. Would you not? I think

1:08:19ultimately, like I you you obviously

1:08:21shouldn't take advice from me cuz not

1:08:22only have I'm not not only am I not

1:08:24qualified, I've also never had personal

1:08:25experience with therapy, but I just

1:08:27think it it is a good idea to try a lot

1:08:29of like natural like health solutions

1:08:32before you resort to therapy and

1:08:34prescription. I 100% I agree with that.

1:08:36it it can be helpful in certain cases,

1:08:38yeah. Because

1:08:40if you're

1:08:41I 100% agree with that. I think a lot of

1:08:43these like proxy mental illnesses can be

1:08:44solved with like the simple things.

1:08:46Getting healthy, going to the gym, being

1:08:48around your social group, the stuff that

1:08:50I mentioned earlier. But if that stuff

1:08:52isn't working, then I don't think like,

1:08:54you know, like if it's not working, then

1:08:55try something else. And I think there's

1:08:56nothing wrong with trying out therapy.

1:08:57I've had great results, so I don't

1:08:59really have a problem recommending it to

1:09:00other people. Um I'm not just being

1:09:02like, you know, a charlatan, like

1:09:05uh, preaching or not practicing what I

1:09:07preach. Like, it you know, it has helped

1:09:09me and made an impact, so, yeah. Mhm,

1:09:11that's fair. Mhm.

1:09:12Yeah, I think the biggest thing big

1:09:14biggest qualm I have with therapy is

1:09:17similar to that of a doctor. Like, if

1:09:19I'm going to a doctor and they're

1:09:20telling me how to be healthy, but

1:09:22they're not healthy themselves. Or if

1:09:23I'm going to like a

1:09:24s- soccer coach and they don't know how

1:09:26to play soccer, it's like, should I

1:09:28listen to them? And how do you know that

1:09:29your therapist is happy and good and

1:09:32well?

1:09:33I would just say being intentional and

1:09:35then looking at your stat sheet and

1:09:36seeing how it changes over time with

1:09:38this

1:09:39you know, solution. Not solution, with

1:09:40this method, with that tool, you know?

1:09:42Is the tool effective or is it not

1:09:43effective? And be intentional about it.

1:09:45So, that's why I think it's not a

1:09:46problem with therapy itself, just with a

1:09:48lot of people's relationships with

1:09:49therapy. And, you know, maybe the

1:09:51culture of therapy. I think that's kind

1:09:53of, you know, sketchy, too. I just know

1:09:55what's worked for me, you know what I

1:09:56mean? So. I feel like you you didn't say

1:09:58anything controversial. Here is a

1:10:00disclosure. Don't listen to everything

1:10:03we say as gospel. We don't have all of

1:10:05the answers. We have only our own

1:10:07personal experiences and maybe some

1:10:09data, but mostly our own personal

1:10:11experiences. Try things out for

1:10:12yourself, think for yourself, and don't

1:10:15find some dogmatic person online that

1:10:16tells you all of these things will make

1:10:18you happy, because maybe it worked for

1:10:20them, but it doesn't work for everybody.

1:10:21If there was a recipe, a solution for

1:10:23everything in life, all the things

1:10:24people are saying online, then everyone

1:10:25would be happy and fine, which isn't the

1:10:27case.

1:10:29I would co-sign on that. Yeah, that's a

1:10:30good way to end the therapy talk. TJ,

1:10:33you co-signing? I'm co-signing.

1:10:34Co-signing.

1:10:35I want to ask TJ a question. What's up?

1:10:38Okay.

1:10:39TJ pod? How do you improve your rizz?

1:10:41Me? Yeah. Repetitions.

1:10:44Repetitions.

1:10:44Go out there, put yourself in that

1:10:45situation. Do it again and again. One

1:10:48out of 10, how's your rizz? Five out of

1:10:5010. When's the last time you talked to a

1:10:51girl? Uh, like 3 years ago.

1:10:54Nah.

1:10:55Nah.

1:10:57Honest answers only. You just don't you

1:10:58you you make it like a a big thing. Like

1:11:00you just talk to a girl, bro. It's

1:11:02That's what I'm saying. It's It's just a

1:11:03girl. It's a human being. It's not like

1:11:05a a ball, bro.

1:11:07You know? But, um An agent in the

1:11:09Matrix, bro. Five out of 10 rizz. If I

1:11:11put 100 shots down,

1:11:1410 sets of 10 reps,

1:11:17and then let's say I hit 2%. 2%

1:11:19conversion rate. I still got two

1:11:21numbers, bro, out of 100. Okay. That's

1:11:23true. That's true. Two two numbers out

1:11:25of 100?

1:11:26That's facts. Two out of 100 is still

1:11:27two. Two is two.

1:11:28I don't think that's It's a numbers

1:11:30game, brother.

1:11:31No. No. No. No, you're staying up, but I

1:11:33just I don't think that's

1:11:35like the conversion rate, you know,

1:11:37would you be happy with a 2% ad

1:11:38conversion rate?

1:11:40I mean, I feel like

1:11:41let's say let's say that's pretty good.

1:11:42Okay, let's say a conversion rate from

1:11:44like on your website to closing. But,

1:11:46they're not on your website, brother.

1:11:47You got to approach them. Yeah, it's

1:11:48cold approach. What do you rate your

1:11:50rizz out of 10?

1:11:53Prob- I mean, if TJ's a five,

1:11:55I'm like a one, bro.

1:11:57What about you? Bro, same. TJ TJ's our

1:11:59our beacon right here. The rizz bastard.

1:12:01Is that really the case? That's why he's

1:12:03here. You going on any dates while

1:12:04you're in Vegas?

1:12:05I don't do that, bro. No? They they come

1:12:07to me. They They come to the crib.

1:12:12No, we're really bad people to ask.

1:12:14Well, you guys are married. Yeah, I'm

1:12:16just again, I'm married to like a day

1:12:17one girl, like out of high school type

1:12:19of thing. So, I don't have

1:12:20you lucked out?

1:12:22I mean, bro, I got some rizz back in the

1:12:23day, but but yeah. But, you haven't

1:12:25exercised that muscle? Yeah, I just

1:12:27haven't exercised it yet.

1:12:28Mhm. So. How long you been married?

1:12:31Uh almost a year now. Coming up on a

1:12:34year.

1:12:34And then you? Six months. Six, seven

1:12:36months. Six, seven months.

1:12:38Does it feel different, the

1:12:39relationship?

1:12:41With the marriage For you it did,

1:12:42because you guys weren't living together

1:12:43beforehand.

1:12:43thing here, though. We're Oh, you

1:12:44weren't living together beforehand?

1:12:45Yeah.

1:12:46Interesting.

1:12:48No prenups?

1:12:50Not not for me.

1:12:51I don't got enough of to have a pre-nup.

1:12:52Just going straight into it, huh? Yeah.

1:12:54That's the crazy one, the the no pre-nup

1:12:56on this guy. I don't know. I

1:12:58I respect it. I'm not going to be I keep

1:13:01using this word, but dogmatic and say

1:13:02like everyone needs a pre-nup. It's

1:13:04probably smart, but if you know, if you

1:13:07feel comfortable not having one and

1:13:08you're

1:13:09you know, you you're a smart person. I

1:13:11don't feel like I need to tell you

1:13:12anything about that. No, I feel like

1:13:15Um for me with a pre-nup question, it's

1:13:19like I don't really care like when I

1:13:21entered into this marriage, like the

1:13:23legal aspect of it and the financial

1:13:25aspect is so minuscule compared to like

1:13:28the covenant we're entering in front of

1:13:29God, like the promise we're making in

1:13:31front of God that like that's a lot more

1:13:34like breaking that covenant is so much

1:13:36more frightening than losing half of my

1:13:37money. That like that's not even really

1:13:40a concern for me and I don't want

1:13:42I'm okay with burning the ships, you

1:13:44know, I I don't want a way out. I want

1:13:46to do everything possible to make this

1:13:48relationship succeed.

1:13:50And I think

1:13:52a pre-nup at the end of the day, like

1:13:54I'm not against it. Don't you know, I'm

1:13:57not giving marriage advice. Don't listen

1:13:58to me on pre-nups, but

1:14:00I think in our case, it would drive a

1:14:02little bit of a wedge. I think it can

1:14:04drive a little bit of a wedge.

1:14:06And this is again, I'm not against

1:14:07pre-nup. If it works for you, that's

1:14:08great.

1:14:09That's interesting. You should listen to

1:14:11our podcast with James Sexton still.

1:14:12I have listened to a lot of his stuff.

1:14:14Cuz he talks we do have extensive

1:14:16conversation about pre-nups.

1:14:17Yeah, I mean he talked about it on the

1:14:19Wide Underbelly as well. I I did my

1:14:20research. I talked to lawyers. I you

1:14:22know, I know the legal ramifications of

1:14:24what I'm doing. It's not like a

1:14:25completely blind like, "Oh, I'm so in

1:14:27love. I'm just going to do this."

1:14:29Mhm.

1:14:29Uh it it was a premeditated decision.

1:14:31I 100% understand like that take that

1:14:34you just said burning the ships. I get

1:14:35it. But would would you get a pre-nup?

1:14:39I probably would.

1:14:41Yeah. Do I think it's for everybody?

1:14:43Mhm.

1:14:44It's not for me to say, you know, it's

1:14:46for the people in the relationship to

1:14:47say.

1:14:48Yeah. But one final thing, I do want to

1:14:50talk about God.

1:14:51Okay.

1:14:51Okay? Cuz you have a very strong

1:14:53relationship with God. You guys Are you

1:14:54religious? Yeah.

1:14:56Have you always been religious?

1:14:58Yeah. Have you ever questioned your

1:14:59faith?

1:15:02Of Yeah. Yeah. It's a good Yeah, it's a

1:15:04good bro. You got to question your faith

1:15:05cuz that only builds up the faith and

1:15:06makes it stronger. Right. Do you

1:15:08question your faith? Yeah, of course. I

1:15:10mean, you

1:15:11does questioning it look like?

1:15:13Uh

1:15:14I mean, just

1:15:15it's just the thoughts you have.

1:15:17Like you got to ask yourself, is God

1:15:19real? Is like Did Jesus walk? Did And

1:15:21what's your response to that?

1:15:24From the evidence that I found, the

1:15:25evidence, the things that I've looked

1:15:26at, from my personal experiences, I

1:15:28think so.

1:15:30So one thing that's I don't know if I

1:15:32could ever be 100% sold on religion. I

1:15:34don't want to bind myself to that, you

1:15:36know,

1:15:37I can never be 100% sold on it. Um

1:15:41even if I wasn't 100% sold on religion,

1:15:44I could see it positively affecting my

1:15:46life and the people around me, which I

1:15:48know isn't the case. That's not the

1:15:49purpose of religion. Um to believe in

1:15:52something greater than yourself.

1:15:54And even if I die and nothing happens

1:15:56and it's just pure blackness, but I had

1:15:58faith and something pulling me towards

1:16:00the light, pulling me towards something

1:16:01that is like good.

1:16:03You know what I mean? During these 85

1:16:04years or however long I'm on the planet.

1:16:06So even if it's wrong, I still think

1:16:08it's a win-win.

1:16:10But what do you lose from just trying it

1:16:12out? Right.

1:16:13What do you lose from reading through

1:16:14the Bible? I mean, there's even on a

1:16:17non-spiritual level, on like a

1:16:18completely physical, secular level,

1:16:20there's a lot of wisdom there. Yeah.

1:16:22Yeah, there's a lot of wisdom, for sure.

1:16:23And you know, obviously like the Bible's

1:16:25very abstract. It's kind of like hard to

1:16:27pull that wisdom out of there sometimes.

1:16:29to read Proverbs. Proverbs. Yeah. Yeah.

1:16:31Okay. I have a Bible. I could read it.

1:16:33Yeah. Proverbs would be a good place to

1:16:34start. For me personally, um

1:16:36like no matter which way you look at it,

1:16:40and I could think of three ways, it

1:16:42always points back to God. You know, if

1:16:43you think about it from, you know, you

1:16:45being

1:16:47super analytical and going outside and

1:16:48thinking about creation, it's like, what

1:16:51makes sense? You know,

1:16:53if you're going to

1:16:54believe in

1:16:55the Big Bang Theory and whatnot, you're

1:16:58that's still a lot of faith to believe

1:16:59in that, you know? And for me, like, the

1:17:01God that create the creator and the

1:17:03creation makes sense. If you think about

1:17:06it from

1:17:09a

1:17:10fear perspective, that also is one way.

1:17:13Like, it's

1:17:14I do fear God, you know, he's

1:17:17almighty, all powerful, and there is

1:17:18some fear there.

1:17:20Um and also from the perspective of

1:17:24like wisdom and happiness. Like, when

1:17:25you look at people that are wise and the

1:17:27people that you want to be like,

1:17:30in my in the cases that I've seen, it

1:17:33they're Christian, you know? Cuz that

1:17:35you see people that are successful

1:17:36financially,

1:17:37um successful with like clout or, you

1:17:39know, success in sports, whatever it is,

1:17:42and

1:17:43I don't see anybody that's oh

1:17:46fully fulfilled

1:17:48um without God.

1:17:50There there's just always something

1:17:51missing. One thing I've picked up on

1:17:53for most of my life is like the happiest

1:17:55people, so like I have I find a

1:17:57concentration of like my idols,

1:17:59barring a couple, um but like I would