Reddit Goldmine Framework | Everything You Need to Build a ₹100 Crore Company

0:00There's a new show that we are starting

0:01undercover billionaires.

0:03>> Okay.

0:03>> If I tell you in 3 months you have to

0:05build 100 cr business.

0:06>> Sure.

0:07>> And you only have 10,000 rupees to begin

0:09with. What would you do?

0:10>> Every Diwala knows key you make me

0:1320,000. There is no other framework. I'm

0:15telling you boss.

0:17>> The kind of scale that you've achieved

0:18in a country like India doing a business

0:20as unglamorous as shipping and and

0:23warehousing etc.

0:24>> We used to be called cart rocket back

0:26then. We identified a gap that Indian

0:29merchants don't have a way to go online.

0:31>> When did you realize just being a

0:33Shopify like platform is not enough.

0:36>> See Shopify worked in the US because

0:38they solve the problem of I can't hire a

0:40developer. So that limits your time.

0:42They made it super simple.

0:44>> If you were building Shiprocket 2.0

0:47today for all of these students who want

0:48to build for India, build for BAT, where

0:50can they play a role?

0:52>> Fewer online brands, we are seeing micro

0:54niches coming up. Cash on delivery was

0:56invented by Flipkart, right? Rightly so.

0:59They ushered in e-commerce into India

1:01with cash on delivery, but it's actually

1:03a product that was built for instilling

1:05trust. It is not a supply chain product

1:08at all. Right? So, the D2C brand is now

1:10effectively trying to compete with the

1:12infrastructure that of Amazon. This is

1:15not the way India should get built.

1:21>> [applause]

1:23>> It's uh it's mostly for Sah not for me.

1:26Um but Sah thank you so much for your

1:29time today. I'm very very excited for

1:30this conversation. Um just before this I

1:33was just asking the students uh you know

1:35what context they have of ship rocket

1:36and they all said all the the messages

1:38that they get the SMSs that they get

1:40with the ship rocket on it. But you know

1:43honestly um you know the kind of scale

1:47that you've achieved in a country like

1:48India doing a business as unglamorous as

1:51as shipping and and warehousing etc. Uh

1:54it's truly incredible. So today I want

1:56to ask you lots of questions but I want

1:58to focus more on the 0ero to one of ship

2:01rocket. I think a lot of people have

2:02heard your scaleup story and 1500 crores

2:05in revenue and all of that and that's

2:06great but I want to focus on the 0 to1

2:09because a lot of the students here are

2:10in that exact zero point

2:13>> right they're just getting started so

2:15can you take me back what 15 years ago

2:18now

2:18>> 14 yeah

2:19>> 14 years ago what was day zero like what

2:22is the first memory you have of ship

2:24rocket

2:25>> see I think the first memory it was not

2:28called ship rocket

2:29>> we've been through two pivots Right. Uh

2:32both times almost died. Uh resolved to

2:36never die and we didn't after that.

2:39>> We used to be called Cart Rocket back

2:40then.

2:41>> Cart

2:42>> because we identified a gap that Indian

2:45merchants don't have a way to go online.

2:47Shopify

2:4914 15 16 years ago were super early. No

2:52integrations just a web store builder.

2:55So we said India doesn't have one. You

2:56know, literally I had a mama call me

2:59saying that I want to sell my shoes

3:00online. Like I said, well, why is there

3:02no Shopify kind of equivalent in India

3:04and that thought just stuck? Uh and

3:07that's how we that's how the idea kind

3:09of came and I used to be a coder. I I

3:11built websites when I was uh like 12 in

3:14school super early and monetized my

3:16first website in grade 11. So I was like

3:18one of those internet guys early. So I I

3:21stayed in touch with the whole online

3:23website universe. And then when Shopify

3:25happened in the US, I just thought like

3:27this was the moment to do it. Of course,

3:29we were very wrong, right? because uh

3:31the Indian market was super different

3:33like people didn't want to pay and uh

3:35this was a time people said why should I

3:36go online and the Korea guys would laugh

3:38at us like nobody will do cash on

3:40delivery stuff like that right so that

3:42was 2011 12 um but 0 to1 was hard man I

3:46mean I think it's not easy to to commit

3:48and uh that is what I think at least I

3:51got right that I waited till I could

3:53commit because it requires that like

3:55that's the only thing it really needs to

3:57be honest right the rest then you just

3:59figure out like everything else is a lie

4:01You know, you you made it sound so

4:02simple, but let me double click. The

4:05biggest problem that a lot of students

4:06face is how do you validate the idea,

4:09>> right? And and you spoke a little bit

4:10about valid validating your idea. So,

4:12you were obviously inspired by Shopify

4:14in the beginning.

4:15>> Uh but you also said that you were so

4:17wrong. What was that?

4:18>> Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. I So, I'll go deeper

4:20into that. I think uh so by the way

4:22before cart rocket or you know today's

4:24ship rocket came about uh Gotham and I

4:27spent a couple of years just thinking

4:29through a bunch of other stuff right we

4:30first wanted to do e-waste recycling to

4:32validate we went to sort of uh you know

4:35parts of Delhi that I didn't know

4:36existed where people would burn CDROMs

4:39with hand to take out the precious

4:42metals in them which now by the way

4:44after the government passed a regulation

4:46few years ago has become a booming

4:48industry right so 16 18 years ago go uh

4:50we were trying to validate on the ground

4:53first of all and two I think one thing

4:55is very clear that I learned later I

4:57wish I had known earlier look for the

4:59complaints you know you've got to look

5:01for what customers are complaining about

5:04not what you like right I mean at least

5:06not entirely what you want to do because

5:08it's not really the best way to launch a

5:10product uh you can do it in a domain

5:12that you like and personally in fact I

5:15would encourage that you do it in a

5:16domain that you are passionate about

5:18I'll give an example like if I wanted to

5:20launch a D2C like startup today uh for

5:23myself, right? I would do it in music

5:26for example because I'm a guitarist and

5:28I know from living abroad that there

5:31just isn't enough accessories. You

5:33cannot buy enough straps or picks and

5:36you know capos and this is not enough

5:37stuff in India. You have like 10, right?

5:40Just because there isn't like it's not

5:42something solving it.

5:43>> Even guitars and every guitarist I speak

5:45to says the same thing.

5:46>> So I know it's a problem and I know

5:48people are complaining. I know it's it's

5:49a it's a wide gap, right? Um so I think

5:52I think validation is extremely

5:54important uh before you go off on you

5:57know your your journey to build

5:58something because you know the what's

6:00happened is over the years and

6:02especially now right the cost of

6:04building has become nothing because the

6:06barrier has become the the floor has

6:08become lower you know anybody can start

6:10now it's the easiest time to start which

6:13actually creates a lot of noise on the

6:14top of the funnel right

6:16>> you're seeing almost an interse

6:17intersection set of what you're

6:19passionate about and where the

6:20complaints lie. Yes. Yes. And that

6:22that's how you find if you look at every

6:24D2C brand that's doing well in India or

6:26anywhere, it's always been about that

6:28personal problem or something that the

6:31founders were passionate about, at least

6:32the ones that lasted, right? Simply

6:35flipping products with ad arbitrage is

6:37okay. I mean it's good to kind of test

6:38out the market but it won't sustain

6:41because ultimately you know it's like

6:42you need consumers who willing who are

6:45willing to pay high margins for the

6:47value you've added in emotional connects

6:50or in actual physical value right uh and

6:53are willing to repeat with you it's very

6:55simple as long as you got those two

6:56things going like it'll work and for

6:58that you need to be able to innovate on

7:00the product

7:01>> so how did you do your early validation

7:05>> for for for cart rocket or ship We

7:07didn't and that's why I'm I'm sharing

7:09that like it's and and maybe like we did

7:11right it took us a long time. We did it

7:13by just doing it like we went and

7:14started selling from day one. So that's

7:16>> what was the first version?

7:18>> Um it was actually nothing. It was uh

7:21Magento which was open source and we

7:23just called it Cart Rocket and we told

7:27customers we had it and we just uh sold.

7:30>> So for people who don't know what

7:31Magento is,

7:31>> but it's an open-source e-commerce

7:34website builder. So you kind of upload

7:36your products, you put your catalog, you

7:38attach your payment gateway and you set

7:40up your website kind of like Shopify but

7:42you host you could host it. So we didn't

7:44have any product on day one. So we built

7:46a website and we put Magento which

7:48Indian customers had like had no idea

7:50what what it was and we basically went

7:52to big enterprise customers who we could

7:54like I I would go with Gotham and Gotham

7:56would sell and I would just pretend like

7:58we had a team and then I would just do

7:59the work, right? uh and we got the

8:02revenues like that doing like agency

8:04work right and that told us that hey

8:06this guy wants this he's asking about

8:08these features they all care about

8:09marketing but they have no traffic but

8:10who cares they're willing to pay for it

8:12so we got that understanding and that's

8:14when we hired our first engineer who we

8:17funded from doing this like like weird

8:20agency work for a year and then that got

8:22us to two engineers and so on cuz we

8:24didn't know we could raise capital like

8:25we didn't

8:26>> who was who was your first customer you

8:27remember

8:27>> uh it was so two three customers in the

8:30same patch, right?

8:31>> One was my mama, right, which was Global

8:33Light Sport. They were starting a D2C

8:36brand and whatever. So, they they were

8:37like they were also super early, right?

8:39They now run Firebolt, by the way, the

8:41the the the watch brand or whatever,

8:43right? So, it became pretty big later.

8:45But, um the second one was a very unique

8:47one called Thaiart. Uh you know, who

8:50again they were doing this sort of ties

8:52for men, right? Like a niche.

8:54>> And then we had Damilano, right? because

8:58super progressive like he wanted like

9:00tablets in his stores like super super

9:01progressive like I want everything so

9:03like classic you know like for me like a

9:05dream like oh great I got a customer

9:07who's willing to pay for like my

9:08research uh and that's how that's how we

9:10went like one by one and you know over

9:12time we started understanding the use

9:14cases and um as we kind of scaled to the

9:17thousand merchant mark we realized that

9:20we had built a bunch of beautiful

9:21websites and great UX and amazing

9:24conversion and zero traffic Right.

9:26>> So how do you bring traffic? We tried to

9:27integrate to Jungli at that time. You

9:29guys won't know this but Jungli used to

9:30be the earliest version of Amazon in

9:32India and Jungli was a aggregator price

9:35comparison right and Amazon bought them

9:38and became Amazon India. They were a

9:39partner. We could throw traffic to these

9:41guys through there. We tried doing

9:43affiliate partnerships with the V

9:44commissions of the world. So we were

9:45really trying to solve this kind of

9:47merchant first problem until we realized

9:50that you know we were fighting the wrong

9:51battle by trying to convince customers

9:53to buy subscriptions or pay monthly and

9:56you know that whole Shopify business

9:57model just collapsed like

9:58>> you're going too fast no no

10:00>> right didn't work slow [laughter]

10:03>> um all of these things that you

10:04mentioned are questions in of themselves

10:05right and we can double click on all of

10:07them

10:08>> so initially you started essentially as

10:10a layer on top of Magento

10:12>> that's right

10:12>> selling an open-source software as if it

10:14were your Right.

10:15>> I mean for for 6 months 8 months we did

10:17that

10:18>> but we built our own in the meantime and

10:19then migrated the first 8 n customers.

10:22Right.

10:22>> But then when did you realize that just

10:25being a Shopify like platform is not

10:27enough and you have to do more.

10:29>> So actually it was not it came in waves

10:32right there was no one like oh one day

10:34we woke up and you said nra. It was not

10:36like that right?

10:37>> Uh there were two three problems. one,

10:39we realized that see Shopify worked in

10:41the US because they solved the problem

10:43of I can't hire a developer to use

10:46Magento

10:47>> or opensource whatever products right

10:50um and I I I don't know how to design

10:53like I don't know how to do this so it's

10:54very difficult so that limits your TAM

10:56correct what Shopify solved was they

10:58made it super simple

10:59>> it was like a consumer-like interface on

11:01a B2B SAS product I like oh now 10 times

11:05more people can actually do this right

11:06so we took that insight and we took it

11:08back to India without realizing that in

11:10India people can pay a developer right

11:12so they don't actually care about the

11:14fact that it became super simple only we

11:16cared about it

11:17>> because because you had the US

11:18>> well we were building the websites for

11:20them because they didn't want to do it

11:21so the DIY helped us have high gross

11:23margins

11:24>> right so it was a service like a

11:26software not the other way around which

11:27continues to be the case so that was the

11:29first learning second learning was

11:31Shopify went on to connect the FedEx

11:33DHLs of the world the credit payments of

11:35the world and and that became another

11:37big dam because now you know the next

11:39set of people could easily they didn't

11:40have to go looking for anything they

11:42could go tap tap tap and they could go

11:43online then they built the pause system

11:46so that the restaurant owner down the

11:47line and that's how Shopify went right

11:49they kept making it simpler and simpler

11:51layer by layer to get more and more

11:52customers but when we tried to do the

11:54same thing in India we realized that

11:55there was nothing to plug on

11:57>> right I couldn't wire on demand I

11:59couldn't wire on logistics there was

12:00nothing there right and I couldn't wire

12:02on payments either payment gateways used

12:04to charge a lack as a onetime setup fees

12:06>> in India

12:07>> in India one lakh rupees to set up

12:10>> the build desk and that time

12:12>> yeah I mean all of the guys right it was

12:13just the market it was like the

12:15enterprise market or whatever they were

12:16super audits or whatever so I think I

12:19think from there like to to say okay

12:21well we want to do this but nothing's

12:23really working so I think we we

12:25somewhere started realizing that you

12:26know we're fighting this battle on too

12:28many fronts right we've got the early

12:29adopters but the business stopped

12:31scaling like we were losing as many

12:32customers we were adding right largely

12:35because customers were churning not

12:36because of us they we're not getting any

12:37demand, right? So, we said, okay, demand

12:39seems to be the biggest thing to solve.

12:42And that got us to kind of saying, okay,

12:44let's try to build this on mobile. Let's

12:46remove the SAS. Let's try to make it

12:48more self-service. So, that became Cart

12:50Rocket Studio, which ultimately became

12:52Craftly, right, which was our 2-year

12:54kind of pivot where we said,

12:56>> we'll get everybody online, right, and

12:59create this shop kind of Etsy style

13:02model, right? And really get the sellers

13:04to go and connect with the consumers. We

13:06built a ad layer on top of that.

13:08Correct. Connecting Facebook.

13:10>> But ultimately, you know, the merchants

13:12didn't want to pay for the demand

13:13either,

13:14>> right? That was the learning.

13:15>> That is that is surprising.

13:16>> Well, they wanted to pay when they got

13:18it.

13:18>> Uh they don't want to pay up front.

13:20>> So, it became like we want to pay

13:22commissions. I said, well, if you're

13:23going to pay commissions and I can't run

13:25ads for you, right? Then

13:26>> then it's just a marketplace.

13:28>> Uh and that's not what we really wanted

13:30to build. like we wanted to build the

13:32components of commerce which is what we

13:34have constantly kind of stuck to because

13:36we believe that that is the future in

13:38the next 10 years right um so so I think

13:40that but what happened was when we did

13:42that and we took control of the demand

13:44our thought process our team etc our

13:46mindset completely changed because you

13:48know now every RTO would pay us it was

13:51not like we were a service provider to

13:54the brand and we were getting beaten on

13:56the head because of doing a bad job now

13:59it was my P&L right every time I don't

14:01deliver I don't get paid correct so RTO

14:04became a huge like problem for us oh

14:06this doesn't work you know

14:07everything's coming back what's

14:09happening right so pin code intelligence

14:10the address in all of that stuff started

14:12with craftly because we had to optimize

14:14the funnel

14:15>> as well as the logistics side right so

14:17we tried working with tons of logistics

14:19partners newer ones we working with

14:20super early ones picker used to be one

14:22of them right they used to do pickups

14:24for us right

14:26>> um and then we then we started realizing

14:28that this is broken too right and this

14:30is why no one's able to do commerce in

14:31India because now this works. So we had

14:33to build and fix a lot of the plumbing

14:35there for ourselves with Craftly till

14:38the point we realized that you know I

14:40think the plumbing itself has value

14:42>> because customers are asking for it

14:44right and that's obviously what got us

14:45to

14:46>> the next next and the next

14:48>> uh yeah and now we'll see

14:50>> no but you know I I feel like shiprocket

14:52and a bunch of companies from that your

14:54era they've actually built India's

14:56entire e-commerce stack yeah

14:58>> right India exists the e-commerce in

15:00India exists because of because of all

15:01the work that you guys have

15:02And my question is has all the work been

15:06done and do you think e-commerce in

15:08India at least as a rails already exists

15:10now as good as it did probably in the US

15:12or does in the US?

15:14>> Yeah. So two two parts to two answer

15:17like two lenses to that question right

15:19one is I don't think the work is near

15:21done at all right uh we are what 8 9% uh

15:25digital penetration into retail right US

15:28is 20

15:29>> so 8 9%

15:30>> so total 1 trillion 1 trillion is India

15:32retail broadly out of that about 80 90

15:35billion

15:35>> is online

15:36>> yeah 70 to 100 billion

15:38>> including quick commerce etc everything

15:39>> yeah round up 80 90 billion I'm saying

15:4189% is e-commerce right China is is 40

15:4545%.

15:46>> E-commerce.

15:47>> Yeah. Why is that? And US is 24%. 25%.

15:50Right. Because one, we are soon going to

15:52hit our 4,000 5,000 you know famed per

15:56capita GDP mark which is like when

15:58discretionary spending is supposed to

16:00like inflect and digital consumption,

16:03digital commerce is supposed to inflect.

16:04So that's going to happen like in 2,

16:06three, four years, right? Four, five

16:07years depending on what you follow,

16:09right? So that is one big one to kind of

16:11watch out. And then secondly,

16:12>> so when when the income So right now

16:14we're at 3,000,

16:16>> right? So we're at $3,000 per capita

16:19>> as you get to 5,000 what starts to

16:21happen as a country?

16:22>> So basically a bunch of trends at least

16:24from China and again I I'm not the

16:26expert on this but from reading and

16:28whatever we are also observing somewhat

16:30I think we are so here's a simple way to

16:32think about it right when there's more

16:33money per capita uh few things change.

16:36One, your priorities change in terms of

16:38what you're going to spend on. Two, if

16:40you today you buy a 2,000 shirt,

16:43>> you're not going to buy four of them,

16:44right? If you have four times the money,

16:46you're going to buy a 4,000 shirt. And

16:48then you kind of so premiumization

16:49happens. And three, the discretionary

16:52spend starts to in in a I think in a

16:54country like India, it will happen in

16:56categories that don't exist anywhere

16:58because our reg so India is actually not

17:00one India, right? We have CAT A, CAD B,

17:03CAT C, CAD D consumers. Then you've got

17:05tier 1, tier 2, tier three clusters.

17:07Then you've got regionals, you've got

17:08languages. So there is so many

17:10microindas.

17:11>> Let's break this down a little bit more.

17:12Sure.

17:12>> So how many indas are there?

17:14>> Yeah, I think there are 10,000 indas if

17:15you ask, right? And that is the reality

17:17of what I believe uh firmly. It's not

17:20something that serves my Yes, it serves

17:21my uh democratization uh kind of

17:24mission. But but I believe that because

17:26I think that like if you think of the

17:27next 10 years right and we go deeper

17:29into this what happens when e-commerce

17:31wants to kind of grow from this 9% to

17:34whatever right let's say it becomes a

17:36trillion dollars uh 25% share of our

17:38total retail of 4 trillion in 15 years

17:41now for this trillion dollars to happen

17:43where is it where is the 900 billion

17:45going to come from

17:46>> like the marketplaces offer you one way

17:49of doing this but really if you think

17:51about it India is 10,000 micro markets

17:54You cannot make them into one chain and

17:56then like I don't think you can

17:58consolidate them because they are all

17:59heterogeneous. they are not you know

18:01there's all kind

18:01>> unlike the US or China

18:02>> unlike the US or China

18:03>> which is very homogeneous

18:04>> but China also I think to some extent

18:06their supply chain got built because of

18:08world consumption right and that supply

18:11chain gave them such an advantage that

18:12you know you it's it's very dense right

18:15with very very good supply chain that

18:17they didn't have to pay for

18:18>> to some extent right India has India has

18:21its own thing right India's India first

18:23we've got our WhatsApp kind of channel

18:24as a huge way to uh communicate engage

18:27and so on we've got sort of vernacular

18:29things happening We've got voice as a

18:31huge one that's coming with AI, right?

18:33And we've got small businesses who are

18:35literally a third of our GDP, largest

18:37employer in India, right? And a half of

18:40our exports. So the small business is

18:43the backbone of the economy. And we

18:45believe that giving the tools to them to

18:48participate, right? Like the big guys is

18:50the way that the next thing happens,

18:52right? And if you look at Tao in China

18:54or or WeChat and CUDA in China, to some

18:57extent they've done that, right? where

18:58they've kind of built a platform and

18:59said, "Look, this is a demand social

19:01platform or a demand platform, but you

19:03are buying the escrow and the payments

19:05and the shipping and the ads, right? You

19:07buy it from us and then you run your

19:09business the way you want it

19:10>> because ingenuity the ingenuity in the

19:12story and the authenticity in what

19:14you're building is is with the builder,

19:15with the business owner,

19:17>> right? I I don't think that's going to

19:18go away.

19:20>> So, if you were building Shiprocket 2.0

19:23today which I'm sure you are in some way

19:26or the other um but let's say for all of

19:29these students who want to build for

19:30India build for Bhat

19:32from that 90 billion to that 1 trillion

19:35journey where can they play a role what

19:36are some of the ideas that they can work

19:38on today so I think look uh like I we

19:41already had some conversation on the

19:42future right the future looks like

19:44people with buying premium goods right I

19:47think premiumization is a trend in our

19:50platform we're seeing already like AOVs

19:52of 4,000 5,000 very very common right uh

19:56pure online brands we are seeing micro

19:58niches coming up regional snacks right

20:01uh artal uh uh uh home things right so

20:05like tech bags which is your you know

20:08when you're traveling you want to put

20:09your chargers and all that tech I don't

20:12know what it's called like tech

20:13accessories for travel so there's so

20:15many niches that you can pick up as a as

20:17a you know everyday user that you're

20:19personally experiencing or you kind of

20:22scrape Reddit using Claude and you see

20:24that people are complaining, there's a

20:25subreddit there. Uh you look at the

20:27comments on LinkedIn or and by the way,

20:29you can you should use tools now, right?

20:31I literally have a couple of prompts I

20:33use uh that kind of go and scrape out

20:35everything from the internet and they'll

20:37give you a very structured analysis on

20:39what the gap is exactly what the

20:41customer is saying. So you can really

20:42start to think that is this a problem,

20:44you know, worth going after and and and

20:46I think all of those micro niches that

20:48exist as problems will get solved,

20:50right? So like I think that there is the

20:53like I think regional snacks with the

20:55authenticity of that region to come out

20:59is a huge market if you ask me because I

21:00just feel that with the right branding

21:03right packaging right when you when you

21:04take a like a chucki from I don't know

21:07I'm just saying it's not there yet like

21:08why is it not there I'll tell you one

21:10small story my brother in fact my

21:12grandfather used to run this mithai

21:13dukan in jalander we're just talking

21:16about mithai uh I think you you also

21:18have a mithai business

21:19>> from one store, one store, maybe 20,000

21:23square foot store. Uh, Mithai Dugan.

21:27Guess how much revenue he does from one

21:30store.

21:31>> And this is in Jalander, which is maybe

21:32tier 2.5.

21:33>> Sure. Sure. Sure.

21:34>> We do have an airport now. So maybe tier

21:362

21:40business

21:41>> almost 100 crores.

21:42>> Crazy.

21:43>> Selling 120 SKUs of different kinds of

21:46majorly Punjabi and Bengali mitai.

21:48>> That's still true today. That's

21:50>> it is today I'm telling you FYI 26

21:52number got [laughter] it

21:54>> from one store and you know there's

21:56always a line outside and it's because

21:57that authenticity authenticity and what

22:00percentage of that 100 cr is motur ladu

22:04>> 50%. Well, not that much but like one/3

22:07one/3

22:07>> oneird

22:08>> but that's what I'm saying now there's a

22:10brand right like in in Chani chalk there

22:13is this I forget the name Kari right

22:15>> correct now they they've got a following

22:17right people who kind of want to buy

22:18there buy that you can buy it on blinket

22:20or on Amazon but I'm saying ultimately

22:22when the tools for fulfillment and trust

22:25for online transactions become akin or

22:28better to everything else I see no

22:31reason why a brand will not want to have

22:33a direct relationship Because see the

22:35realization is simple, right? The closer

22:37you are to your customer, the better it

22:39is.

22:39>> It's very simple, correct? And DTC or

22:44other forms of kind of reaching your

22:45customers more directly are possible

22:47now. And that's the real transformation

22:49happening on the brand mindset side,

22:50right? While of course platforms like us

22:52do our jobs,

22:54>> right? And one of the problems that my

22:55brother is facing is that he'd love to

22:57ship his products across the country,

22:59but that cold chain and and the specific

23:01shipping that his products require,

23:03>> it just doesn't exist.

23:05>> Correct. And and like I think so cold

23:08for example, right, is a is is a great

23:10one to to digitize over a period of

23:12time, right? If you think about

23:13logistics, uh not maybe not like the

23:15biggest priority for us, but I'm saying

23:17for like for example jewelry

23:19>> for relax, right? We we recently

23:21integrated with somebody who does it. So

23:23over time as demand from different

23:26pockets starts to emerge right from tier

23:282 from businessmen from traders from

23:30manufacturers who are going to want to

23:32use the tools of the future to be able

23:34to reach the consumers of the future

23:36they will want to be able to do it in

23:38this way right is is our belief so I

23:40think everybody sitting in this room my

23:43like simple like two three-pointer

23:45suggestion is to go look for like you

23:47can literally use data there is no need

23:49to guess today

23:50>> search

23:50>> and search man you can you can go into

23:52like I Hope everyone here is using at

23:54least some LLM as a co-pilot if not if

23:57for life if not more uh if not as like

24:00you know I use open claw I use agents I

24:02use a bunch of I don't know about

24:03you guys but hopefully at least as a

24:05co-pilot right and if you are within

24:08that you can be like you can really get

24:10uh a lot of insight on on you know like

24:13trust me it's an unfair advantage almost

24:15because you're literally able to go into

24:17social media scraping into Reddit into

24:19Google search and and get a clear answer

24:21on say Okay, this category this

24:23Shiprocket by the way has something

24:25called Shiprocket trends. You can use

24:26that too. that gives you data on our

24:28billions of data points on what's

24:30actually shipping where what are the

24:32trends you know pet categories which

24:33cities what is the RTO rate what are the

24:35return rates like you can really do a

24:37good job of first planning right then

24:40test your product by going into looking

24:42at complaints because if you don't have

24:43complaints like India or any market I

24:46think you can't sell vitamins right it's

24:48just impossible you have to sell a

24:50painkiller which is a pull that I want

24:53this I see the ad this is my problem and

24:55the more niche you go the better it I

24:57find for people who are just starting.

24:58>> Does everybody know the concept of

25:00vitamins and painkillers?

25:02>> Explain quickly.

25:03>> So, basically it's simple, right? Like

25:05if you have a toothache, right? And uh

25:09I'm the only chemist open, right?

25:13Depending on the intensity of your

25:14toothache, I can charge you whatever I

25:16want because you because it's like it's

25:18messing with your head. You can't think

25:20straight, right? It's a pain and you

25:21will pay anything for it, right? If

25:23there's more two chemists then okay some

25:26game theory whatever right whatever is

25:28the right price five chemist but I will

25:30pay immediately to the nearest one

25:32because I have a pain vitamins on the

25:34other hand you have to sell me right you

25:36got to tell me it's good for you it will

25:37do this to you it'll make your hair

25:38better whatever it is right and that's a

25:40push product so whenever you're trying

25:42to think of a new product you the deeper

25:44the pain the the better it is even if

25:45it's only 10 customers it's okay at

25:47least you will understand that you know

25:48what customers are willing to pay for

25:50because finding that problem just

25:53because you have it is not good enough.

25:55You need to find at least a small

25:57community of people who are facing the

25:59same problem and the depth of the

26:01problem right cuz you know you talk to

26:03your friends G if I do this would you

26:04take it I'll take it but that's not the

26:07research right the research is that what

26:09are they complaining about that's why I

26:10keep telling people what are c customers

26:12complaining about right pick the big

26:14FMCG brands look at their pages there

26:16tons of complaints right we love to

26:18complain as Indians on on on social

26:20media that's all we do right in the

26:21complaints there's rich data sitting out

26:23there to scrape from Twitter Instagram

26:26just go and like you know

26:28>> build a tool around this actually just

26:29to share and I was just thinking it's a

26:31good idea to for your drop shipping

26:33class too right absolutely

26:34>> just to build a tool

26:35>> there's this company called Moxy

26:37>> yeah yeah right right across the street

26:39from here

26:40>> and uh they are making shampoo for curly

26:43hair

26:44>> like and when I met her for the first

26:46time the couple actually and like market

26:50like you know is this really that deep

26:52etc etc I was not sure but today it's

26:54one of the fastest is growing D2C brands

26:56reached 100 crores in less than a year.

26:59>> Yeah.

26:59>> In less than a year of launch, right?

27:01It's just very specific micro niche as

27:03you pointed out

27:04>> and I'm saying you're calling that

27:05micro. I would tell you that you split

27:07that into 100 more. Like for example,

27:09there's hair types are different in

27:11India for eastern men versus southern

27:14men, right? And like there's so much you

27:16can do. We can just go regional and say,

27:17you know, this is for you.

27:18>> Yeah. There 20 kinds of curly hair.

27:20>> Yes.

27:20>> Men, women.

27:21>> And then there's Indian climates, right?

27:22some place humid some places some I

27:24think the whole like like beauty BPC is

27:27the biggest category right in in D2C

27:29already and it's became it grew in front

27:31of my eyes right in like 6 7 8 years but

27:34within that I still don't see the like

27:36there is a next level cut of the

27:38regional right then for certain Indian

27:42specific skin types then you can do age

27:44like there's so much you can go into all

27:46you have to keep in mind is right now it

27:48all seems small because of the 3,000

27:50mark right the 3,000 becomes 15,000

27:5313,000 one day like we cannot think of

27:54that today. So we have to be patient

27:56right we got to find our little grid sit

27:59in that innovate there

28:00>> be authentic and then just spend the

28:02time like it's not a lot 3 4 years maybe

28:04right you'll start to see decent revenue

28:06and they stuck there because you have to

28:08believe that you know see you have to

28:09bet on India growing

28:10>> right you you have to bet that India is

28:12going to like just like do amazingly

28:14well right and then when you think of

28:16that and you think of a future like that

28:18everything starts to seem not small

28:20right it starts to seem very big

28:22>> you know but you would have solved so

28:24many problems as ship rocket to make

28:26that future possible like I remember uh

28:29I was I was hearing that you know in

28:31India you don't have definitive physical

28:33addresses

28:35>> right and I'm sure you would have solved

28:36that problem somehow right so what are

28:38some of these structural systemic

28:40problems in India that you have solved

28:43or that are yet to be solved for that

28:45one trillion dream to be achieved see

28:48e-commerce is largely made up of three

28:51pillars there is the demand generation

28:54traffic, discovery, how do how do I tell

28:57customers about my brand? There is the

29:00uh trust and checkout layer, which is

29:03the payments. I think I'm calling it

29:04trust for a reason because

29:06>> middle of the funnel.

29:06>> Yeah. It's like that's kind of where you

29:08decide that you trust the product, you

29:10trust the brand, and you trust the

29:12delivery that it'll come to me. Right.

29:14It's very important. Have you think

29:15about that? And then there is the

29:17post-order fulfillment experience which

29:20is different from offline. A lot of

29:21people forget that, right? Because in

29:23offline you're at the counter.

29:25>> It's done, right? You give the goods,

29:27you're done. Here you paid the money,

29:30right? And now you're like in this half

29:33an hour to 4 day kind of window where

29:37you know how do you make it seamless? If

29:38there's delays, how do you apologize?

29:40And you know, lot of people

29:41underestimate the post-order experience

29:43because see in e-commerce that is the

29:45experience to your customer. That's how

29:47they're going to feel, right? And it's

29:49very important to get that. It's not

29:50some printing press style logistics

29:52where like you know like in B2B anybody

29:54who's from like family business once

29:56you've sold it this is a cost item.

29:58Logistics is a cost item to say yeah

30:00cheapest though correct cuz there is no

30:02experience involved.

30:04>> This is not the case in e-commerce

30:05right? Spend that extra 10 rupees for

30:07the right carrier to get a better

30:08experience because you're building your

30:10business right and you want the customer

30:12to come back

30:13>> hopefully right that's how you're

30:14building. So, so on those three pillars

30:17I think if you start like breaking them

30:19up like let's talk about the first

30:21pillar we talked about discovery demand

30:23today there are two large platforms who

30:26dominate pretty much the entire uh

30:29digital marketing

30:30>> so out of the 90 billion how much is

30:31Amazon and flipkart

30:32>> uh so direct commerce today is about 15

30:35billion right 15 to 20 billion so about

30:3720% 15% right the rest is the

30:39marketplaces right and what I'm saying

30:41is in the demand generation side social

30:44media platform forms are a are a great

30:46way to uh kind of reach your audience

30:48because they allow you to target them in

30:50a certain way. But then again, the data

30:52or the insight or the commerce graph

30:55around who to target is not there,

30:57>> right? Amazon and marketplaces have it

31:00because they're a closed loop ecosystem.

31:02They track everything from the visitor

31:03to the funnel to the last mile.

31:06>> But in open loop commerce, which is what

31:09we are playing in, how do you do it?

31:11Right? Some of the data will be locked

31:12in the payment gateway. Some of it will

31:14be with Shopify, some of it is in

31:15Facebook and Google ad panel, some of it

31:18is with chip rocket and some of it is

31:19with maybe something else, right? So how

31:21do you how do you do the end to end?

31:22Right? That infrastructure is not there,

31:25right? So the so the D2C brand is now

31:27effectively trying to compete with the

31:29infrastructure the digital and and the

31:31physical infrastructure of that of

31:33Amazon and that is what at least we are

31:35trying to bridge to say you know no this

31:36is not like the way India should get

31:38built you know India should get built on

31:40their own legs where there is

31:42infrastructure which is for everyone

31:44right and everyone should be able to use

31:46it for the way they want to use it

31:48essentially and it I think that the way

31:50the Indian business sort of community

31:53runs this is the right way to build

31:55because I just don't think that you'll

31:57be able to like lift and shift them into

31:59I don't think behavior change happens in

32:00India easily simple right and I and I

32:03just don't think that our motivations

32:04are I'll give an example right we built

32:05a fulfillment center network

32:07>> after building shiprocket like we got to

32:09kind of building quick deliveries right

32:11I mean two-day deliveries uh four five

32:13years ago now it seems like slow but uh

32:16two two-day delivery and you know we we

32:18said every every merchant will want to

32:20give their stuff to us because we can do

32:21it cheaper per unit we have better

32:23tie-ups we more aggregation and we can

32:25do a better job with technology, right?

32:28Most merchants said no. Why? Because

32:30they are sitting on the space they own.

32:32>> Yeah.

32:32>> They own the space, right? So like look,

32:35I pay zero for this and it's my staff.

32:37Like

32:38>> how do you beat zero? Are you getting my

32:41point?

32:41>> That's my So

32:42>> exactly right. There is lot of there's a

32:45lot of this stuff that I feel that the

32:47businesses know how to deal with best

32:49rather than trying to change their

32:50business model. You're better off trying

32:52to get them into this fray of now AI or

32:56commerce and intelligence. I think

32:58intelligence for India available at

33:00scale so people can use it to do their

33:02things is is not there right the

33:03integrations that need to be there for

33:05this to seamlessly work are still three

33:08four on 10 right which is kind of what

33:09we've been working on for a decade and

33:11we will take one more decade uh to to to

33:13finish this off that's how much work is

33:15spending

33:15>> we spoke about shiprocket trends as as a

33:18potential product or you know

33:21>> what are some of those trends um that

33:23you're seeing that you're excited about

33:26>> yeah lots of I think first tier two is

33:28exploding like it's just like every year

33:30I'm seeing

33:31>> tier two is define tier

33:32>> non- top eight cities

33:34>> non- top eight cities

33:35>> so non- top eight metro cities what do

33:37you call them is tier two for us and

33:39then within tier 2 if you split further

33:41tier three then tier three growing

33:42faster than tier two growing faster than

33:44tier one right

33:44>> so tier three is growing faster than

33:46tier two

33:46>> well in like with the right denominator

33:48right small denominator but growth is

33:50faster correct cities that I've never

33:52heard of will show up in charts key oh

33:54deliveries got stuck here like okay

33:56where is this and why is this

33:58significant why is it 1% of our total

34:00and because it's it's it's it's people

34:02are ordering from there right India post

34:04is our partner that's unlocked sort of a

34:06next set of pin codes where again we are

34:08seeing orders coming in so really that

34:10whole $3,000 $2,000 going to $3,000

34:15>> is getting yeah is getting people to

34:17order for the first time right uh from a

34:19cat perspective and the AOVs in some of

34:22the smaller cities are like unimaginable

34:24people think tier 2 to AOV will be

34:26But there is cat A, CAT B, CAT C

34:29consumer everywhere, right?

34:31>> So like ship rockets platform AOV is

34:32around 1,500 rupees, correct? And tier 2

34:35is 65%. So do the math, right? The point

34:38is that

34:39>> we get tons of orders from from like

34:41from tier 2 which are very high AOV.

34:44>> So that's again a trend that you know

34:46I'm finding people not building for are

34:47okay. Regional high AOV

34:50is is like you pick up any region you

34:52want and there's like 100 ideas right

34:54after this video. Tier three India let's

34:56say I don't know Patan quote

34:58>> what would be the average order value

35:00there

35:01>> I

35:02>> just just let's just just throw a number

35:03>> I my guess would be it'll be either at

35:06my platform average or or slightly more

35:08>> is my guess

35:09>> cuz it's Punjab is

35:10>> and anybody can open right now you guys

35:12can open shiprocket trends like

35:13literally trends or shiprocket log in

35:14and ask the question and see if you get

35:16the answer I could be wrong but I don't

35:18think it'll be like 500 like I don't

35:20think it'll be 700 for sure it'll be

35:22like thousand plus for sure right that's

35:23my Yes.

35:24>> So, so I'm saying that there's a lot of

35:26opportunity there, right? Each of those

35:28things they're selling. Who's really

35:30targeting only them? No one.

35:32>> So, you pick up a tan code, you see

35:33what's happening there, you see the

35:35other sort of affiliated categories, go

35:37to Reddit, go to Twitter, go to

35:38Instagram and pick something there and

35:40then go and do validation, right? Go and

35:42check are do our customers truly like in

35:45pain,

35:45>> right? So the moment you kind of put

35:48that kind of lens every category will

35:49seem quite big to you because you can

35:52build build then a community around you

35:53can build a ton of things around it and

35:55this has been the evolution by the way

35:57of D2C in the last 10 years as I've seen

35:59it right it's just happening at big

36:01blocks now it's going to happen at small

36:03blocks then micro blocks and it's going

36:04to keep like keep innovating

36:06>> you know so let's talk about the first

36:09pillar right which is the acquisition of

36:10the customer the discovery

36:12>> now Google and Facebook are smart

36:14companies

36:14>> right to say the least Sure.

36:16>> And they know how much they can charge

36:18you for that click

36:19>> and they will push you to that limit.

36:21>> Right.

36:22>> To the extent that your margin is going

36:23to eventually get eaten up by them.

36:26>> So how do you fight Google Facebook?

36:28>> How do you avoid the tax?

36:29>> How do you avoid the Google Facebook

36:30tax?

36:31>> Yeah. So uh I

36:32>> anybody understood that question?

36:34>> Yeah.

36:34>> So typically algorithms are designed to

36:36kind of give you an ROAS which doesn't

36:40kill you but doesn't make you rich,

36:42right? uh and it's their business model

36:45like this the way it works right um I

36:47think first of all like I don't think

36:48relying on paid media is the right way

36:51and I know this is not popular belief

36:53because people want to do performance

36:54marketing and and I know you have to do

36:55it but I think for the right product

36:57first of all you will have a lot of

36:58organic pull you have to think of

37:00marketing as burst right you get the

37:02customer then let the customer buy then

37:04you get more customers let them buy now

37:06I know this is like just textbook and

37:07very ideal in reality but at least

37:11northstar that is what you need to be

37:12going for that will keep you a little

37:14bit sane on uh not constantly bleeding

37:16through your contribution margin right

37:18secondly I think as I was saying earlier

37:20the intelligence graph around retail

37:22shopping is something that you know is

37:24missing in India right we obviously

37:27built some of this right we we've

37:28started to build through our one-click

37:30checkout system right where we process

37:32now a third of our volume right over

37:3510,000 websites and uh billions of

37:39cookies actually right we are starting

37:41to observe in our closed first party

37:43network uh trends which which can help

37:45inform uh D2C brands of running better

37:48ads. super early so I'm not able to uh

37:50there's not a product yet right but I'm

37:52telling you a sign of you know things to

37:54come where like we've got signals

37:56there's a bunch of companies who have

37:57signals and these signals alone can can

38:00help you kind of you know really make

38:01the right decisions on I'll give us a

38:03very simple example right so when you

38:05run your brands the moment you start

38:07getting orders the thing that people

38:09really should be tracking is your ROAS

38:11your return on ad spend on delivered

38:14orders

38:15>> because with cash on delivery right I

38:17don't know if you guys know this but

38:19when you start this it's like it is a

38:21big pain right and you will be writing

38:23comments to me at that time about these

38:25NDR orders right and we can talk about

38:27cash we should talk about cash on

38:28delivery and RTO is a huge part of like

38:30what we try to solve and uh but but but

38:32coming back right I think so the point

38:34is the net delivered order signal is not

38:36there with Google or with meta we have

38:38it right

38:39>> so it's not talking to

38:40>> no so when you run your brand how do you

38:42close that marketing loop how are you

38:44telling Facebook that look this actually

38:47is a bad customer. Please don't show

38:49this ad to them again.

38:50>> Well, just because he bought for the

38:51first time doesn't mean

38:53>> customer and maybe they didn't buy at

38:54all, right? Maybe it actually maybe

38:56they're a ser serial returner because we

38:58see that data too on the platform. We

38:59have like a

39:00>> are there people who are

39:01>> 100% we have there's buyer fraud at at

39:03super like high levels, right?

39:05>> What percentage of fraud exists in

39:07India?

39:07>> See fraud comes in different sizes,

39:09right? So for example, they can be

39:12there's no buyer skin in the game,

39:13right? When you let's talk about cood

39:14like when you do when you do cash on

39:16delivery there is no skin you're like

39:17okay I want this order that's it press a

39:19button

39:20>> and then you want somebody to magically

39:21show up if it's a day late you can say I

39:24don't want it

39:25>> right now during this journey there can

39:27be several things that can go wrong for

39:28example you mentioned address earlier

39:31>> India addresses can come like behind big

39:33tree right yeah and and and you know

39:35what makes it harder sometimes they

39:37deliver [laughter] in my in my database

39:39so I'm like

39:42you know Why it's happening? That's just

39:44a landmark. The guy goes there. He calls

39:47him there.

39:48>> I'm standing here. Come fast. Right. And

39:50then they kind of do the last mile

39:51themselves. Right. There's no center.

39:53That's cuz he doesn't have an address or

39:55it's not formal. Correct. So So it's a

39:58difficult problem, right? To to map

40:00this. But the point is you can do a lot

40:02like we have over a billion addresses,

40:04right? where we can tell that you know

40:07if you missed out like a tower number or

40:09something

40:10>> before it's going to get returned to you

40:12we can tell you right at the point of

40:13check out saying no no no this is this

40:14is your address please fill it correctly

40:17>> we prof profile consumers on on return

40:19behavior right so there would be

40:21consumers if they have a 8 on 10 return

40:23rate something's wrong right that person

40:25is not really genuine

40:26>> they're not genuine we track IP

40:28addresses you know we track like if you

40:30have why are you ordering to a unique

40:32address every time right if it's the

40:34same guy ordering the same. So we we do

40:36a bunch of these checks on checkout. So

40:38they we block bad buyers, right? In some

40:40ways. Uh but it's a huge problem because

40:42buyer intent is something which is like

40:44you can't change it. We see people

40:45ordering the same thing on three

40:46different websites in the same day and

40:48we know that they're just playing

40:49fastest linger first to wait for who

40:51delivers first, right? So that's how

40:53brands get kind of screwed later because

40:56they just like, you know, they don't

40:57know what's happening.

40:58>> Is it still 30% RTO? like

40:59>> yeah yeah yeah

41:00>> it is basically

41:01>> on the cood base it'll be 20 20 20 to 30

41:0420 to 30%. Overall of course cash on

41:06delivery is now about half right so

41:08blended you're making 15

41:10>> even with UPI it's not fully gone

41:12>> because metros is UPI is higher and then

41:14see the problem with cash on delivery is

41:16cash on delivery was invented by

41:18flipkart rightly so they ushered in

41:21e-commerce into India with cash on

41:23delivery but it's actually a product

41:25that was built for instilling trust

41:27>> it is not a supply chain product at all

41:29right it's a product for doing trust to

41:32say look I understand you don't trust to

41:34pay me online, somebody will show up,

41:36right? And then you you're used to the

41:38counter experience of giving money and

41:40getting the product. So, you'll get it,

41:42right? Now, what's inside the product,

41:43you still that's still a risk, but at

41:45least you know it's coming, right? And I

41:46got to pay when it comes. Now, the

41:49innovation here is like ultimately this

41:51is a trust problem. It's not a

41:52fulfillment problem. That's why I said

41:54e-commerce, you have discovery, trust

41:56and fulfillment. All three need to get

41:58sorted for India to usher in sort of,

42:00you know, this open commerce. And I'm

42:02saying right now we're working very

42:04deeply on trust and fulfillment. To give

42:06an example, we have something where we

42:08are saying look don't use cash on

42:10delivery. Use something we've built

42:11called pay after deliver prey. Right?

42:14Pay at delivery is a UPI mandate

42:16>> that you give at the point of checkout.

42:18So there's no cash but there is no UPI

42:20either, right? And then that's a prepaid

42:23order into the supply chain. You know

42:24what the RT on prepaid orders is?

42:27>> Much lower.

42:28>> Guess anybody?

42:29>> 1 2%.

42:30>> Yeah. like 1% less than 1% right so

42:33clearly there is a intent and like

42:35everyone's intent downstream because

42:37it's a fuzzy logic right everyone from

42:39the hub manager delivery boy consumer

42:41it's all fuzzy oh he said this he said

42:43that while we try to kind of tame that

42:45with our workflows and WhatsApp and AI

42:47and whatnot the point is if you go to

42:49the root cause it's a trust problem

42:51right so if somebody could give you

42:52trust at the point of check out saying

42:53hey I'm taking accountability I'm only

42:56taking a mandate if it delivers debit

42:58you doesn't deliver I won't debit you

42:59something as simple as that can solve

43:01this problem right so I think we are

43:02heavily focused on going upstream into

43:04solving that problem right because until

43:07trust is solved for openloop kind of

43:10commerce it's not going to take off in a

43:11big way right that's why we got into

43:13sort of you know partnering with

43:15fulfillment center companies to have

43:17sort of you know be able to look at the

43:18goods or be able to look certify the

43:19goods at some point saying look it's

43:20fulfilled by us you know it's it's

43:22coming soon or it's coming now we have

43:23dark stores where we're doing

43:24partnerships to kind of have so I think

43:26trust is extremely important right and

43:28the marketplaces win there because They

43:30become a walled garden and they own it.

43:32>> They own the trust and but they own the

43:34consumer too. Right? So as a business

43:36you're just renting demand. You're not

43:37getting customers.

43:38>> You won't get that data. You won't get

43:39anything. Right? So to build your own

43:42business you need same level of trust

43:44and fulfillment but still be able to do

43:46it on

43:47>> your business model essentially.

43:49>> Understood. Now I want to shift gears a

43:52little bit. Okay. Uh there's a new show

43:54that we are starting.

43:56>> Um it's part of the student experience.

43:58Uh it's inspired from a show in the US

44:00called uh uh Undercover Billionaires.

44:03>> Okay.

44:03>> Okay. So what what they do is that they

44:05take a billionaire and they put him in a

44:07city where nobody knows him for 3

44:08months.

44:09>> Okay.

44:09>> And he's only allowed to bring in $100.

44:12>> Nice.

44:13>> They get $100 and a car. Okay. And in 3

44:16months the goal is to build a million

44:19dollar valuation business

44:22as a billionaire. That's it. And you

44:24have nothing.

44:25>> Only $100. Okay. Okay. So I'm going to

44:26put you in that situation for a second.

44:28I'm not actually taking 3 months away

44:30from your life. But over the next 5 10

44:32minutes if you are in that situation and

44:34suddenly you're put in the middle of I

44:36don't know again let's use Patan quote.

44:37>> Sure.

44:38>> Right. And if I tell you in 3 months you

44:40have to build sahil a 100 cr business.

44:44>> Sure.

44:44>> Right.

44:45>> What would I do?

44:46>> What would you do? And you only have

44:4710,000 rupees to begin with.

44:49>> But can I do anything I want?

44:50>> You can do anything you want.

44:52>> Yes. So see I'm a I'm a techie at heart.

44:55Right. So I I wouldn't go into uh

44:57building a product based business

44:58because that's not my

44:59>> that's fine

45:00>> first thing right uh I think the 10,000

45:04would do I have a house too or

45:06>> no

45:07>> you have a car you can sleep in the car

45:09>> okay but food so we

45:11>> food so first one month you have to

45:12figure out

45:12>> there's no money basically right so the

45:14first one month I got to basically sell

45:16myself right uh in some way which means

45:19that I need the money to just survive

45:21>> correct

45:22>> uh so what can I do Right? I can do a

45:25bunch of stuff, right? I can consult or

45:26I can go

45:27>> work for somebody, right? Uh while

45:30building my idea or something to get

45:31that 100 cr and I have 3 months. So I

45:34got to first figure out my sort of mass

45:36low pyramid. Everyone's an MBA here,

45:37right? The the the rotan situation. But

45:41beyond that, I think look, I am a firm

45:43believer of finding the problem first,

45:46right? So until I you know even if it

45:48takes me 3 months just to do that I will

45:51want to go to the depth of that because

45:53if I solve it even on the last breath

45:56right

45:57>> that customer will pay me the next day

45:59correct and I think that to me like if I

46:02was doing something with AI for example

46:04uh what can scale let's say you want to

46:06do 100 crores in revenue uh let's say

46:08you think of a B2B solution I mean

46:10that's more natural to me so you need

46:135,000 rupees from I don't

46:1710 crores a month. So you need uh

46:19>> uh 20,000 customers, right, to pay you

46:225,000.

46:23>> Okay, maybe 10,000 paying you 10,000 is

46:25a is a better it's more.

46:26>> So you basically are thinking. So guys,

46:29think about what he just thought, right?

46:30What he just said is that to get to 100

46:32crores valuation, you need to get to 10

46:34crores.

46:35>> 100 crore revenue.

46:36>> Oh, I was saying 10 100 crore value. But

46:37>> okay, so 10 crore revenue, you have to

46:39do 1 cr a month.

46:40>> Yeah. So you have to do 1 cr a month.

46:41>> So thou so so thou then I would do 2,000

46:43customers paying me 5,000. So if 5,000

46:46rupees 2,000 customers that'll get you

46:48>> like a cr a month

46:49>> to a cr a month. Okay. So that's the

46:51matrix that you're looking at.

46:52>> Now 2,000 businesses why will they make

46:54me 5,000 right is the question and we

46:56are all want to be like come from

46:58business want to do business and so on.

46:59Every dial knows key you make me 20,000

47:02you take 5,000. It's very simple.

47:05There is no other framework. I'm telling

47:06you boss

47:10right? I mean and if you can't do that

47:12then there's no value. Then you're doing

47:14vitamin sales, right? Medical,

47:18right? You tell the guy, I can grow your

47:20business.

47:24What do you have? Right? So, I think I

47:26think you got to think about that,

47:27right? With AI today, I can use my

47:30laptop and my Wi-Fi. Hopefully, I have

47:32that. Uh, you sold your car to get a

47:35laptop. Sorry, I didn't have a laptop.

47:48I don't care about the car, but I have a

47:49laptop, right? And uh I think I would

47:53literally find the 5,000 businesses uh

47:56>> 2,000 businesses.

47:57>> So I Okay, you have to

47:59>> Yeah. I do two three things, right? So I

48:01look at So okay, here's what I would do,

48:03right? I would first figure out without

48:06looking at the number of businesses keep

48:07problem let's say digital marketing

48:09right this what's coming to my mind as

48:11we speak right everybody I think needs a

48:13voice receptionist okay every dental

48:16every store okay with AI right and AI

48:19voice I can build something in 5 hours

48:22for any of these businesses and by the

48:24time on I'm on my 10th business it would

48:26have like the next thousand will most

48:28likely happen self-service right

48:30>> and then by that time I'll have enough

48:31money to hire a team right So, and what

48:34is this? Now, let's break this down.

48:35Let's say I can either extract 1,000

48:37rupees from 10,000 people, I can extract

48:405,000 from 2,000 people, or I can

48:42extract 10,000 from 1,000. I I've got

48:44those options, right?

48:46>> The answer will not depend on how many

48:48businesses there are. The answer will

48:49depend on what value can I deliver

48:51first.

48:51>> That is my OKAD to then go and ask for

48:54the money. Right? So doing a virtual AI

48:58receptionist that screens your leads,

49:00you can add your catalog. So 24/7 it can

49:04answer questions, right? It can take it

49:05can screen your just dial in India leads

49:07for you.

49:08>> Maybe do an outbound saying who the hell

49:10are you? Right? I might even cuz I hear

49:11there's lots of junk and stuff. So it

49:12can really become like a cool assistant

49:14for you. It is screening qualified

49:16leads. It is answering your customers

49:1724/7. Brands will like that, right? A

49:20shop owner will like that. And it knows

49:21your catalog. It can do a little bit of

49:23pre-sales, right?

49:24product and so on. uh I think is easily

49:28like if a store owner right easily

49:31they'll pay me 5,000 bucks for this

49:32right now whether I do it per call per

49:34lead per that I have to figure that out

49:36too largely I would sell it only as

49:38outcomes so that my barrier to sell is

49:40zero

49:41>> that's my other learning with that look

49:42you don't pay me anything

49:45big right yes do it

49:48>> so no upfront cost

49:49>> no and then I'll get 2,000 customers

49:51like this right because everybody will

49:53want it because the product will be

49:54hopefully good enough uh and if I'm able

49:57to blend 2 to 4,000 a month then I'll

49:59figure out how to get the next set of

50:00SMMES because to get the SMMES itself

50:03you can now just use AI like I would

50:05just

50:05>> but but you know nobody knows who you

50:07are

50:07>> how is he going to let you inside his

50:09office

50:09>> he's not I'm just going to digitally get

50:10them that was our biggest learning with

50:12Shiprocket right so we are a total of

50:141500 people and we're 10 buildings away

50:16from here right that's all of that's

50:18that's it we don't own you're asset

50:20light I'm asset light too I own nothing

50:22>> correct I don't even see the packets

50:24>> uh that go through that that that kind

50:26of go through the network. So, so I

50:27wouldn't need to meet them at all. Like

50:29I would simply for example, right, you

50:31can today scrape local business

50:34listings, right? Using claude, you can

50:36run an automated uh marketing loop,

50:39right? Entirely to say, okay,

50:41personalize the email, write a WhatsApp

50:42message, tailor it to, you know, their

50:44social media. What are they saying? You

50:46can kind of get that and start

50:48bombarding maybe like 100,000 or

50:50whatever 10,000 businesses uh overall.

50:53Let's say you went after one niche is

50:54what I would recommend. dental clinic,

50:56whoever has high margins, right? Go

50:58after them because they they'll want the

51:00fancy stuff, not after the guy who has

51:02no margins, right?

51:05>> You could I'm just saying in your in

51:07your consideration set, find the one

51:08with the better margins, right? Because

51:10why make your life difficult to begin

51:11with and and then and then

51:13hyperpersonalize their problem statement

51:15to go,

51:18right? And you go and meet these two

51:20three doctors and pain what can I solve

51:23for you? Right? Their words are very

51:25important because when you run your

51:26WhatsApp marketing, unless you're using

51:28their words, they will not respond. Same

51:30goes for consumer by the way. When you

51:31do your Reddit research and all that,

51:34use the pain. See, when you sell, right?

51:36Here's a mistake people make. People go

51:38and sell that I have this, I have that.

51:40What you need to sell is what is it for

51:42you? Correct? It will solve this problem

51:44for you. Are you facing this problem?

51:46It'll solve it for you. That's it's a

51:48very simple hack. But and even in my

51:50company often we kind of end up

51:51forgetting this, right? uh and the

51:53problem framing has got to be in the

51:55customer's voice, right? And now there

51:57are tools to like accurately do it at a

52:00per product level.

52:01>> You can just like run scrapers or

52:03>> what bunch of things, right? So, so I

52:05would do that, right? I would

52:06personalize it. I would send out bulk

52:07outreaches. I would give them a

52:09self-service loop to sign up, you know,

52:11pull your business name, set up your

52:13reception, whatever, set up your virtual

52:15assistant or whatever, right?

52:16receptionist to take calls and and and

52:18yeah, I mean I'm sure I would get like

52:20a,000 2,000 customers to sign up in the

52:22first month and then the ones who are

52:24slightly bigger businesses I would show

52:26up and say

52:28and let me solve your 10 other problems

52:30with AI. So I would I would get to ac

52:32like in 90 days or or 120 days maybe uh

52:35without the car and phone I think

52:40>> but but this is I mean yeah this is what

52:42this is what I would do. Does

52:42>> it work?

52:44Um

52:45yeah, no that thanks for sharing that.

52:47Sure. Sorry. No, it makes a lot of

52:49sense. It make I was thinking in a

52:50completely different direction. I was

52:52thinking I'll start like a pizza joint.

52:54Uh but this one sounds better [laughter]

52:56for sure you know. So how do you think

53:00about

53:02uh you know the trust part the second

53:03pillar how you know India is a trust

53:07deficit society right? Uh how have you

53:10seen good brands build trust with the

53:12customer especially when you can't see

53:13the customer and meet the customer? I

53:15think it's um so trust comes in like I

53:18said there are two levels of trust there

53:19is trust in the brand or whatever brand

53:22product and fulfillment right because

53:24you need to know that it'll come to me

53:26uh think about this way right a lot of

53:28the large brands who sell on fashion

53:30marketplaces like think of Nike right or

53:33Ba right B is a customer now Ba has a

53:36pretty decent D2C business right when

53:39you buy Ba on a myntra or Amazon or

53:43anywhere Right?

53:45>> You're not deriving the trust of Ba from

53:47that marketplace, right? You're not

53:49going there for that. You know BA,

53:51you're not discovering BA there for

53:52sure. Right?

53:54>> So why are you buying it there?

53:56>> Because you know it will come

53:58>> on this and this date and you know that

54:00something happens I can return it. God

54:02knows if I do it on you know no offense

54:04to any E2C brand directly God knows what

54:07happen right. That is the essential

54:09problem right in the in the fulfillment

54:11side in the brand side how do I even

54:14know for the first time when I see it

54:16should I order it

54:17>> that is the sort of top of the mind

54:19conversion right uh and in that case I

54:22think the brands who've done it well are

54:23founders who are obsessed with their

54:26customer not product

54:28you should not get obsessed with your

54:30product ever right you have to be

54:32obsessed with the customer or the deeper

54:34thing way to think about is get obsessed

54:35with the problem

54:37>> then you can We all creator prneur

54:39everything whatever right you guys are

54:41very good at this

54:41>> so like and then you you kind of you're

54:44brand you're passionate about that

54:47problem

54:48>> then people say are authentic story I

54:51want to you know people the new age genz

54:53buyers also want to not buy mass-

54:56prodduced like chapa like they want to

54:59attach themselves to a cause and a story

55:01and and it's hyperpersonalized their

55:03lives are hyperpersonalized man so the

55:05product should also be right so so I I

55:07think that is the way uh yeah I mean I

55:10would think about that way.

55:12>> Um

55:12>> now so you're basically saying

55:14founderdriven authentic brands. Yeah, I

55:16think comes from and they see they

55:18examples like I think about Vun and

55:20Guzzle like the biggest story in T2C. uh

55:23we've seen them scale from super early

55:24days to you know and they become a mega

55:26brand and they were super passionate

55:28right about like firsthand experience

55:30for kids that's how they started like

55:32organic uh you know products for kids

55:34that was the initial kind of use case

55:36because they themselves were were were

55:38facing it right um and then they

55:40expanded obviously into a bunch of other

55:42categories over time but I think they

55:44were so obsessed with that problem that

55:45they you become the spokesperson for

55:47that problem now however small that

55:48niche is it doesn't matter but you need

55:50to be able to feel strongly about it,

55:53right? And I think you need to you need

55:56to really love your customer. You cannot

55:57hate your customer and build a business.

55:59Now, I I know it sounds trivial, but

56:02sometimes I've seen people I think how

56:04do you not know about the customer? That

56:05means you you can't build it because

56:07somebody else built it.

56:09>> You have to build for the customer type

56:11you like and love. I lovememes. I love

56:14spending time with them, right? I'm a

56:15business guy. They have like I love it,

56:16right? And that's why I'm able to think

56:18like them and I have empathy for them

56:20and I want to follow them and I want to

56:21learn everything about them. So it's

56:22automatic. So if you like your customer

56:24segment or your TG automatically you're

56:26going to kind of become like experts in

56:29that TG

56:30>> and then you will know the problem

56:31sharply and then you can build the

56:33authentic brand and build the trust. So

56:35I think it you know I I wish I could

56:37tell you are you put the sticker and do

56:39these three things.

56:40>> Sure. And you look it up like but the re

56:42reality of the the soul of that is this

56:44like it has to be that craft of the

56:46founder I am going to own this right

56:49like I know I like this company Nuke a

56:50lot right they build electronic products

56:52which which I love because I think

56:53they're like they've just taken that uh

56:56premium feel to to like you know the

56:59wire and there's like little details I

57:00care about it right and maybe I'm just

57:02maybe I'm one of few like maybe it's a

57:04it's a super early category or whatever

57:06but I love it and they'll never have to

57:08market to me again right

57:09>> you know I I was meeting the Shark Tank

57:10people.

57:11>> Yeah.

57:11>> And they were telling me that, you know,

57:13one of the reasons founders want to go

57:14on Shark Tank is of course for, you

57:17know, the the initial spike that you get

57:18in the traffic, but more than anything

57:20else, they sell more than a non Shark

57:24Tank.

57:24>> Yeah.

57:25>> Uh brand because the customer has seen

57:27the founder.

57:28>> Yeah.

57:29>> Right. And because they can relate to

57:30the founder and they've seen the eyes

57:32and the authenticity and the honesty in

57:34the eyes or dishonesty, whatever that

57:36they make their judgments and the story,

57:38right? It's like simple like think of

57:39the old days where we look at actors on

57:41TV and then like derive trust right it's

57:44the same thing like today because

57:46consumers are willing to look at you as

57:48the founder as the act as the as the

57:50actor in this case

57:51>> as the chief saleserson

57:52>> yeah because you're so passionate about

57:53that one niche you're constantly talking

57:55about it right you've got micro

57:56influencers talking about it now you've

57:58got the following of that community

58:00talking about it with you right so you

58:01are they look look at you right for for

58:03this little thing now within this thing

58:05you obviously can solve multiple

58:07problems for you can build a community,

58:09you can build products, you can build an

58:10ecosystem and wait it out,

58:13>> you know that's that's what I'm trying

58:14to say and then you'll build a lasting

58:15sort of brand with unit economics where

58:17something will scale

58:18>> otherwise it's like just trying

58:20>> I mean we have seen this in masters

58:21union um almost now 75% of our students

58:28uh or of applications come through our

58:30YouTube and Instagram channel. Oh wow.

58:3275%.

58:33>> 75%. It's probably more. I'm getting

58:34this probably a little bit less.

58:36Probably closer to 80%.

58:37>> That's crazy.

58:38>> Is through Instagram. So our Instagram

58:39we have across all of our channels maybe

58:41a million followers and it's all English

58:43speaking channels. So that's obviously

58:44premium and niche.

58:45>> Yeah.

58:46>> And then on YouTube probably across all

58:48of our channels another million million

58:49and a half followers.

58:50>> People like you have sign up forms there

58:52or how do you

58:52>> No. So people discover content like they

58:54would discover content like this.

58:55They're like okay what is this? Why are

58:56there sitting behind? Is it a college?

58:58is

58:59>> by the way the mast's union name does

59:00not have the word college school

59:02university institute academy in it

59:06>> right right at the beginning I was told

59:07it's completely wrong you should put in

59:09the name what you are actually you're

59:11not a union in any way

59:12>> sure

59:13>> we said no no no we will not because you

59:14know we'll see what we become over a

59:16period of time now from next week we

59:17will have the word university uh we

59:19we're doing a launch but till now it's

59:22it's just this sense of trust that they

59:24have in the content

59:25>> see I think like think about what you've

59:27built at with masters union you've built

59:29a platform where you were passionate

59:31about experiential learning

59:33>> that's it I mean think about it right

59:34it's one statement saying look I don't

59:36think India has good experiential

59:39learning platforms and I'm going to go

59:41solve it

59:42>> right and and that's has your vision

59:45changed no like you're just doing

59:47multiple variants of it you're trying

59:49and hacking multiple things together and

59:50it's working so the point is like you

59:52you got to commit to that one problem

59:54and like that's how things happen that's

59:55that's how products get born that's how

59:57new niches and categories come into

59:58existence and it'll come from your

1:00:00conviction. There's no other way. No

1:00:01data can make you do it.

1:00:03>> You know, I always thought for a long

1:00:05time um that ship rocket is around

1:00:08shipping.

1:00:09>> Yeah.

1:00:09>> Because of the name, you know, it's only

1:00:11when I discovered it much later and when

1:00:13my students started to use it and they

1:00:15talk about it, then I understood that

1:00:16it's a full value chain, right?

1:00:18>> Uh and SAS more than anything else, I

1:00:20actually thought that you compete with

1:00:21like a shadow fax or you know in my mind

1:00:23was just that. Well, now let's talk

1:00:25about the third pillar which is the

1:00:26fulfillment and we've spoken about a

1:00:28little bit but um you know how have you

1:00:33seen India's sort of fulfillment journey

1:00:35of the last 10 years and what are your

1:00:37hopes for the next 10 years? I mean the

1:00:39the gur behind the big tree will stay

1:00:42>> I don't think that's changing but what

1:00:43are as a satellite imagery what is

1:00:45happening next?

1:00:46>> Yes. So I think uh you can break

1:00:49logistics into information flow and

1:00:51goods flow right because both are both

1:00:54have to go hand in hand in at least in

1:00:56digital logistics or any logistics for

1:00:58that matter right the old school way was

1:01:00maybe a phone call or some way right now

1:01:02it's obviously trackers and you know IoT

1:01:06whatever and again that's also now been

1:01:085 years 10 years so so I think there's

1:01:10there's two three things happening one

1:01:11the physical structure infrastructure in

1:01:13India is expanding right at a massive

1:01:15pace right we've all seen in the

1:01:16highways and we all know it's happening

1:01:18that's going to add tremendous value

1:01:19because it's it's really going to make

1:01:21it easy. Um so that is a key one if you

1:01:24ask me like over a long period of time I

1:01:27think the fact that demand is growing

1:01:29for digital consumption a lot more use

1:01:32cases hyper local this that bunch of

1:01:34ways of fulfilling orders are coming up

1:01:36supply chains are transforming by

1:01:38putting goods closer to the edge as much

1:01:41as possible. So the B2B side or the PT I

1:01:44mean the backend side of supply chain is

1:01:47also changing because the old models of

1:01:49you know hub and spoke but well how big

1:01:51of a hub and how far off a spoke are are

1:01:54being rethought right in many ways

1:01:56whether it's the quick commerce of the

1:01:58world or even the rapid you know 4 hour

1:01:598 hour kind of things are changing right

1:02:01so in this kind of scenario um I think

1:02:05that you know logistics is is going to

1:02:07be extremely important right because

1:02:09there will be again like 10 Indas at the

1:02:11same time and there will be first to

1:02:14commerce there will be people buying on

1:02:15mishow who've never bought right they

1:02:17got to figure that out uh you've got

1:02:19India post like really trying to become

1:02:21digitized you know we're working with

1:02:22them very closely to now say okay well

1:02:24why we have one lakh 50,000 post offices

1:02:26right we have a floating even today with

1:02:29the largest post office network in the

1:02:31world

1:02:32>> you believe it largest post office

1:02:33>> and they're all staffed they're all

1:02:35working

1:02:36>> and they don't churn the delivery

1:02:39>> postmen right so so

1:02:40>> so they really

1:02:42So there's a lot of things you can do.

1:02:44So the point is that it's transforming

1:02:45in a way where the information flow I

1:02:47think continues to work and then get

1:02:49choked work and then get choked right.

1:02:51So what is the job of ship rocket? We're

1:02:52simply taking your data flows from your

1:02:55orders and everywhere else using a bunch

1:02:57of AI and decision making on you know

1:02:59which orders will likely return result

1:03:01in an RTO if you use courier A or where

1:03:04is the pickup pipeline itself choked so

1:03:06don't use this guy cuz he won't show up

1:03:08right things like that. And we also

1:03:09stitch together. We can use a hyper

1:03:11local guy to do a pickup because I know

1:03:13it's not working right now with couer a

1:03:15and then inject it to their hub. So

1:03:16that's but essentially we're only doing

1:03:18decision- making and integrating people

1:03:20who do the work right by doing this we

1:03:22have digitized logistics for brands

1:03:24where we're saying look you don't have

1:03:25to worry about this for you. It's an API

1:03:28or a MCP call or a web platform or an

1:03:30app whatever the whatever way you want

1:03:32to use it. Um and we'll take care of

1:03:34digitizing these guys where you know

1:03:36today we have obviously our rider apps.

1:03:38We've got trucks, we've got FTL, we've

1:03:40got crossber, we just moved a container

1:03:42last quarter, right? So because for us

1:03:44it doesn't matter essentially an API,

1:03:46>> right? We're simply but the thing is all

1:03:48of these logistics sort of

1:03:50infrastructure outfits, right? Um the

1:03:53digitization and the communication at

1:03:57it's there's still a ton of work there,

1:03:58right? For example, if a brand tells us

1:04:00that, hey, don't do the pickup today, do

1:04:02it tomorrow. Okay, I can pass it through

1:04:04the API, but it's not going to happen,

1:04:06right? So because the last mile of the

1:04:08instruction itself doesn't happen right

1:04:10and then again see logistics with one

1:04:12one thing that you know people I think

1:04:14often miss is that it is a 90% SLA

1:04:16business everywhere in the world right

1:04:19we as Indians

1:04:20>> explain 90% SLA

1:04:21>> see if you run tech you talk about 69s

1:04:23right which means at 99.9999

1:04:27uptime or service availability or

1:04:29whatever right logistics is a 90% SLA

1:04:32business which means I can I can only

1:04:33deliver 90%. because there's natural

1:04:35calamities, there's like floods and

1:04:37>> you're saying globally it's 90%.

1:04:39>> I'm not sure but I'm saying in India

1:04:40it's not

1:04:41>> I tell my customers that look I we're

1:04:43going to screw up in 10%. Like it's

1:04:44going to happen because like we can't

1:04:45control it.

1:04:46>> It's beyond our control, right? It's

1:04:48beyond our control and it's going to

1:04:49happen. So you need to be prepared for

1:04:51it.

1:04:53>> I mean yes like if you think about RTO

1:04:55like the economics on that are it's

1:04:56super bad.

1:04:58>> Literally I've seen businesses shut down

1:04:59because we couldn't fix it because you

1:05:01know

1:05:01>> it's the biggest problem in our drop

1:05:02shipping. It's huge, right? And and RTO

1:05:05is like you two-way two-way freight.

1:05:07Your your your stuff is out there for

1:05:08like 7 8 days. There's uncertainty in

1:05:11your cash plan. It's it's really bad,

1:05:13>> right? Um so I think so I think it it

1:05:15becomes important to anyway. Yeah. So

1:05:18>> but like are we seeing like drone

1:05:19deliveries and and all that?

1:05:20>> Yeah. So I think I think from that

1:05:21perspective we've done some of that. We

1:05:23we've done trials too, right? We have

1:05:24some warehouses operating. We're doing

1:05:26drone deliveries in Gorgo. Uh it

1:05:28started. Yeah. Yeah. We did it a couple

1:05:29of years ago and I think it's right now

1:05:31for because there's a lot of regulation

1:05:33right it's for medical grade stuff I

1:05:35just don't think the economics right now

1:05:37work for last mile delivery as such uh

1:05:40but I think what is changing is uh edge

1:05:44fulfillment is going to become big which

1:05:46means that more and more people will

1:05:48start to put stuff near the end customer

1:05:51>> because it think of like the telco

1:05:52towers right where you have

1:05:54>> like one city covered and then you need

1:05:56to have the network right now this is

1:05:59being done by the quick commerce

1:06:00marketplaces but I'm saying like in the

1:06:02long run whether it's a B2B T2C

1:06:04fulfillment it's just it's just so much

1:06:06more efficient that I think it'll start

1:06:08to happen everywhere right is is is one

1:06:10of the things that I think will change

1:06:11in logistics and

1:06:13>> and that'll be very specific to India

1:06:14it's not elsewhere right

1:06:15>> I don't think so we recently had people

1:06:17from uh like a Brazilian

1:06:20>> one of the largest marketplaces visit

1:06:22India uh they were meeting blinket and

1:06:24us and a bunch of companies to learn

1:06:26that you know how the hell are we able

1:06:27to do quick commerce and make money like

1:06:29it's a very India like unique kind of

1:06:32kind of

1:06:33>> I was in the US last week there's

1:06:34nothing there

1:06:35>> it's crazy man you you order a sandwich

1:06:36for $10 and you pay $15 for delivery

1:06:39>> then the guy asks for tip [laughter]

1:06:41>> and it comes late my hunger is gone like

1:06:43it comes late too so I think we are

1:06:45really spoiled

1:06:46>> Uber Eats is not bad

1:06:47>> yeah yeah that sounds okay but then the

1:06:50quality is hit miss so I think the the

1:06:51the thing is that you know we are very

1:06:54very spoiled as consumers think about it

1:06:56right which is

1:06:57that there are business models that can

1:06:59be win-winwin uh and create value and

1:07:02and that is where India I think is is

1:07:03headed. You're going to see a lot of

1:07:05India first. I think India first is is

1:07:07definitely uh for me like I and look at

1:07:10look at all the brands that have done

1:07:12well. How many of them are like a you

1:07:14know at least a direct copy paste of

1:07:16anything global? None. I I can't see one

1:07:18I say oh this is exactly this cuz you

1:07:20cannot

1:07:21>> it may have started off as that like

1:07:22Zomato may have started off as Yel.

1:07:24>> I started as Shopify. you started

1:07:25Shopify and then you became

1:07:26>> that's okay. I'm saying look it's great

1:07:27to take inspiration and kick something

1:07:29off but but really you know bhat is is

1:07:32is where where the next you know thing

1:07:34is I it's obvious it's everywhere and

1:07:37what what I'm encouraging people to do

1:07:38is to is to you know there are so many

1:07:40tools which are there and you can just

1:07:42you can just go build for all this right

1:07:44it's there are so many playbooks that is

1:07:46it's very simp you don't need anything

1:07:47now you need claude and

1:07:48>> like a laptop like that's all you need

1:07:50>> you know on that note I want to open it

1:07:52up to questions from the audience guys

1:07:54uh I know you guys had a lot of

1:07:55questions so please Shoot. Uh, raise

1:07:57your hand. I will look at you. Yeah, go

1:07:59ahead and wait for the mic.

1:08:01>> So I like how sir was mentioning that

1:08:04brands that come short time have a more

1:08:07chance to you know get sales because

1:08:10like you say in Hindi

1:08:13but uh the surplus of knowledge that we

1:08:18have in the kind of world we living

1:08:21right now. I just want to ask that like

1:08:23if there's like a young person like me

1:08:26who is trying to open a new brand

1:08:28something what should be the three

1:08:30pointers that can not be missed which

1:08:34are generic across businesses what would

1:08:37be those three pointers

1:08:39>> see I would uh like I said completely

1:08:42focus on the problem right without

1:08:45defining that problem I wouldn't even

1:08:47move to the next one because that's what

1:08:50you're solving So having a sharper

1:08:52understanding of you know like literally

1:08:54being able to imagine the customer what

1:08:57is the problem right the second is they

1:08:59their willingness to pay which means

1:09:01that you may think this is great and

1:09:03they may say it's a problem but are they

1:09:05willing to pay for it right and then the

1:09:07third is do you have unit economics in

1:09:09this in this thinking because you know

1:09:12you could have a big problem customer

1:09:15might be willing to pay for it but it

1:09:18doesn't make money right so it'll fail

1:09:20on the third test. So all three you ask

1:09:22three right

1:09:24>> and any business to be honest it's just

1:09:25a simple framework right you can apply

1:09:27this because if you don't uh uh uh if

1:09:31you don't get the problem right on the

1:09:32other hand I think the other two are

1:09:33useless a lot of times people move on

1:09:35too quickly from one and then like it

1:09:38doesn't scale or doesn't sustain look

1:09:40I'm saying that you have to be iterative

1:09:42for sure right there is no question

1:09:43about it but the framework to try and

1:09:45test is this right because see if it's a

1:09:47problem then you'll find people who are

1:09:49willing to pay and then you have to be

1:09:50able to deliver the solution in a cost

1:09:52that makes you money. Simple, right? But

1:09:54the trial and error piece is super real

1:09:56and don't get wedded to your you know

1:09:58that oh I have this brilliant idea I'm

1:10:00going to spend one year and you know

1:10:02lacks of money on it and then you test

1:10:03it and you're like it's a bad thing

1:10:05right so that's why I said don't get

1:10:07wedded to your product get wedded to the

1:10:09problem then what happens is you can try

1:10:11multiple products right you might pivot

1:10:13into 10 things and thank you and still

1:10:15get success at some point but if you

1:10:18keep kind of staying stuck to your

1:10:21product then you waste all your money

1:10:22trying to market something that doesn't

1:10:24work essentially and by that time you

1:10:26give I've seen it happen a lot right

1:10:28that's why I'm telling you that if you

1:10:30spend the time right and I can tell you

1:10:32there are there are thousand niches

1:10:33right now right and there will be 10,000

1:10:35in the next 5 years that you can go and

1:10:37build for

1:10:39>> go ahead behind you

1:10:41>> hi sir

1:10:41>> hey

1:10:42>> sir uh I have two questions

1:10:43>> sure

1:10:44>> from what you have seen like in long run

1:10:46for bhat who would you personally think

1:10:49would grow exponentially tech startup

1:10:51business or a strong product

1:10:53manufacturing business

1:10:54>> both

1:10:55>> like if you had to choose

1:10:59>> this is being recorded so I can't say

1:11:01anything but uh I would I think both

1:11:04have such a big promise right because

1:11:06see uh with tech what happens is this

1:11:10whole next half a billion users are

1:11:12going to come online right voice is

1:11:15becoming a big one to reach them

1:11:17unstructured data to becoming usable all

1:11:20of these things are happening now so and

1:11:22the and the disposable income is also

1:11:24rising now. So next like 3 6 9 years

1:11:27let's say in three milestones you know I

1:11:29think the access to the next audience is

1:11:33a bigger dream and goal right and that

1:11:36is why I would bend towards tech but if

1:11:38you are manufacturing here's what I

1:11:40think I think India will become a bigger

1:11:44manufacturing hub and an exporter for

1:11:47two three reasons because I think for

1:11:48the same reason I I explained earlier

1:11:50consumption will grow I don't think we

1:11:52want to be a rising net import country.

1:11:55I don't think that is how the policy is.

1:11:56I don't think that is where as a nation

1:11:58we want to be either. I do think that uh

1:12:01you know there will be categories where

1:12:03India will start to build very very

1:12:06large scale manufacturing capabilities

1:12:09and will be a net exporter because I

1:12:11think with the world econ like the way

1:12:13things are moving I just feel that that

1:12:16direction becomes has been for some time

1:12:19and it'll become more and more right in

1:12:20the coming like toys for example already

1:12:22we are seeing a lot of it is now getting

1:12:24domestically manufactured right we have

1:12:25a customer who basically pivoted the

1:12:27whole thing and and built a factory

1:12:29essentially Right? So, so there's lots

1:12:30of these examples that are going on now.

1:12:32Why? Because see the simple consumption

1:12:35is growing. Right? Either you can be on

1:12:37the side saying I am going to help

1:12:39bridge the consumption to the product or

1:12:42you can say no I'm going to make the

1:12:44product to and hence both are both are

1:12:47equally exciting depending on what your

1:12:49skill set is. For me, my skill set is

1:12:51technology. So obviously I I am biased

1:12:54to that, right? But my technology works

1:12:57if other people make products. Right? So

1:12:59that is why I want everyone to also take

1:13:02away that please manufacture because if

1:13:04everybody sells then there will be

1:13:06nothing left to sell.

1:13:07>> One is needed for the other to exist. I

1:13:08think the

1:13:09>> I think manufacturing is important

1:13:11right? Everyone wants to trade but it's

1:13:13important to manufacture at some point.

1:13:15>> I think depends on what your skill set

1:13:16is.

1:13:17>> Yeah. It boils down to what you want to

1:13:18do. Both are exciting.

1:13:20>> I have one more question like similar to

1:13:22so I have my own startup of import and

1:13:24export. So it's just started 2 years

1:13:26ago.

1:13:26>> Okay.

1:13:27>> So like which sector would you

1:13:28personally bet on to build a high growth

1:13:30export business like coming years.

1:13:35>> See it can be anything what the demand

1:13:37indicates right and what you can make or

1:13:39source. I know that's a very very uh uh

1:13:42uh frameworkish answer because see okay

1:13:45I can tell you what I'm seeing right I'm

1:13:47seeing u gemstones and jewelry

1:13:50handiccraft some of these things pick up

1:13:52right but I'm also seeing things like

1:13:55peanut butter which are not even native

1:13:58to India being sold because people are

1:14:00hacking keywords around non-GMO organic

1:14:02blah blah blah and they are able to make

1:14:05it and land it there in a price where it

1:14:07sells so so I'm saying that's just pure

1:14:09arbitrage correct Right? There will be

1:14:11opportunities like that. But really, you

1:14:13know, what is India known for from an

1:14:15export perspective, right? Is what

1:14:18consumers will look for. Now, whether

1:14:20it's yoga or health or you know, I think

1:14:21the ayurvedic side, I think we we don't

1:14:24have enough on the Ayurvedic side

1:14:26packaging that is suitable for for uh

1:14:30global buyers and I just think that

1:14:32that's a huge category there. You go to

1:14:33amazon.com right or I herbs a lot of

1:14:36these it's a huge market now. We should

1:14:37just do like India should be dominating

1:14:39that.

1:14:40>> India should be on all of those shelves

1:14:41because we make that stuff for 5,000

1:14:43years,

1:14:43>> right? But we're not there

1:14:44>> and there is

1:14:45>> and we are selling the extracts by the

1:14:46we are the ones who are selling the

1:14:48extracts. some of you guys maybe right

1:14:50who are doing the manufacturing but we

1:14:53are not capturing the the more meat of

1:14:55the value right so so yes uh yeah sorry

1:15:00hopefully that that gives you some idea

1:15:01I don't think there is a certain

1:15:02category I would say go and bet on

1:15:04because you have to do research there

1:15:06but ultimately where demand is heading

1:15:08globally and what can be done in India

1:15:10you'll find the arbitrage and now there

1:15:13is also tariffs so you got you got to

1:15:15watch uh you got to think about that too

1:15:17>> sure thank Thank you.

1:15:18>> Most welcome. Go ahead.

1:15:20>> Uh your company started 14 years back

1:15:22and you turned a volunteer now.

1:15:25>> So as an entrepreneur it took you 14 15

1:15:28years and you were losing. So what kind

1:15:32of courage gave you that uh to hold on

1:15:36business to be patient for 15 years for

1:15:39a for business is about making money

1:15:41right. So to be in laws for 15 years and

1:15:45continuing that so that courage and

1:15:48second question was that in your website

1:15:51it was mentioned in 2020 your business

1:15:53turned down by uh 95%. Still you were

1:15:57running it and you posited that time. So

1:16:01how you uh managed that times when your

1:16:05revenue was down 95%.

1:16:07>> He's a he's a CA by the way.

1:16:08>> Yeah.

1:16:08>> So he's good job. [laughter]

1:16:11So look uh thank you for the question. I

1:16:14mean to be honest uh we were profitable

1:16:17the first year we started then we raised

1:16:20money and invested in hiring a sales

1:16:22team. So we started losing money cuz the

1:16:24sales team would sell after 6 months or

1:16:27whatever. Um and then obviously we went

1:16:30towards platform building. So again

1:16:32started spending money on engineering.

1:16:34When we pivoted into ship rocket in 2017

1:16:36it took us only 2 and 1/2 years. We

1:16:38became fat positive, right? So the

1:16:40company made money in 2020, right? We've

1:16:43given out investor exits worth hundreds

1:16:45of million of dollars, right? One of the

1:16:46only companies who've given money back

1:16:48while being private and after 2020, we

1:16:51were we basically wanted to build the OS

1:16:53for India. So we painted a bigger bet.

1:16:56So we kept catching back to

1:16:57profitability. 15 years say we kept

1:17:00losing money. Customer got company got

1:17:02opened with a customer check. Correct.

1:17:04Day one that was the first check into

1:17:06the company. made money then invested

1:17:08money came to the next step cycle made

1:17:10money then invested money and now in

1:17:132020 we said look we don't want to do

1:17:15just shipping because problem span from

1:17:19visitor to delivery right let us build

1:17:22the checkout let us build our ads and

1:17:23let us build the whole stack and we will

1:17:25again take an investment right and then

1:17:28we'll make money so I think it is a

1:17:30matter of the scope right the courage

1:17:32comes honestly from just survival when

1:17:34you have to make payroll trust Trust me,

1:17:40you will get the courage to find a way

1:17:42to make the money because that to me

1:17:43honestly and many founders will reflect

1:17:45that is where you get that courage. You

1:17:47cannot let your team down, right?

1:17:49Hopefully [laughter]

1:17:50>> and I think that is where you'll get get

1:17:52that right.

1:17:53>> And we'll take one last question.

1:17:56>> Go ahead.

1:17:56>> So I have two questions. Sure. Uh one

1:17:59when mentioned earlier that I do have

1:18:02mine business so they have shelf life

1:18:05problem. there problem with the you know

1:18:07environment that they're shipped in.

1:18:09Sometimes it happens that the customer

1:18:11receives the item and it's already you

1:18:13know spoiled. So how can we solve that

1:18:16problem as a seller and as a uh shipping

1:18:20chain that you have how can we help

1:18:22customers get the correct item one and

1:18:25second with all the quick commerce

1:18:27coming up like Brinkit and Zeppto and

1:18:30all of that we say this course is PGB

1:18:32Bharat. How do we help our local Kirana

1:18:35in a way that because they have been the

1:18:38support of Indian household until this

1:18:40came up? So they are all dying to be

1:18:43honest. Since you said we're all

1:18:45customers, we're spoiled now that you

1:18:46know we get everything in 10 minutes.

1:18:48How do we solve these kind of problems

1:18:51that are actually related?

1:18:53>> That's a great question. Uh great

1:18:55question. Um

1:18:58audi don't have the answer to the first

1:18:59one to be honest. I don't know because

1:19:01it is the answer lies in packaging and

1:19:04in supply chain right what I mean by

1:19:07that is it'll really boil down to which

1:19:09product what shelf life I have seen

1:19:11brands do a great job at packaging in

1:19:14certain ways or storage in certain ways

1:19:18for example if you said

1:19:21I'll do Delhi Bombay Bangalore Chennai

1:19:23suppose right um and suppose your your

1:19:27mai can the specific one we're talking

1:19:29about can last 48

1:19:31without any problem right and still has

1:19:32another 2 days off then consumption time

1:19:35man right or let's say 24 let's say

1:19:37let's you want it to be there in 24

1:19:39hours right now del if you try to send

1:19:42from north to Bangalore correct

1:19:47but 10%

1:19:52GM loss sales loss customer da right to

1:19:56and d to whom right so the point is

1:20:00ultimately either you bake it in but you

1:20:02know the problem with bake it in baking

1:20:03it in is the economics may work but the

1:20:05customer is pissed

1:20:07>> right the customer is very unhappy and

1:20:08that makes brands very unhappy ultimate

1:20:10it's not the money only right the guy

1:20:12wanted the damn thing they didn't get it

1:20:14>> so for example they I get so many of

1:20:16these escalations root I personally have

1:20:18to go and say please make it happen

1:20:20personal

1:20:23let's fix it right so I think packaging

1:20:26and then supply chain key planning We'll

1:20:29have to decide that until the cold

1:20:31ecosystem is not able to get

1:20:32democratized right for the food this

1:20:34thing how do you get it digitally

1:20:36consolidated and you know you have a ptl

1:20:38load how do you make sure everything all

1:20:41the links work right um and it'll come

1:20:44I'm just saying it's a matter of time

1:20:45right my friend runs an ice cream brand

1:20:47same problem right he's think boss how

1:20:48why can't I use your stuff uh I'm just

1:20:51like there's just not enough of you guys

1:20:52yet where we go and solve the cold

1:20:55supply chain card digitization

1:20:57fractionization call it what you like

1:20:58right so so I don't have an answer

1:21:01unfortunately which can help you

1:21:02directly um I'm happy to circle back

1:21:04though I can ask my team members cuz we

1:21:06do work with a lot of the mitai brands

1:21:08right so I'll I'll look back and if you

1:21:10want like can we get get back to you but

1:21:13on the uh on the other side I so I'm

1:21:15very passionate about uh digitizing

1:21:17everybody right and if India has 6 cr 7

1:21:21cr businesses then like 4 cr of them are

1:21:24kiranas right they are genuinely the

1:21:26retailers of India and They know how to

1:21:28manage credit. They know how to kind of

1:21:31talk to your household. They do demand

1:21:32planning. They do purchase ordering.

1:21:35They do stockkeeping. They do uh

1:21:37everything right. All your business

1:21:38functions and they can do it better than

1:21:40a lot of us in this room. So they are

1:21:41very sharp businessmen. See I used to

1:21:43I've interned at Walmart and my strong

1:21:45belief is that like you know I used to

1:21:47think about this a lot India big and you

1:21:51know cuz because Walmart may all those

1:21:54shopkeepers became employees of Walmart.

1:21:56How hard is that? Right? Um and I then I

1:21:59didn't see it happen in India at

1:22:00[clears throat] all cuz it's just

1:22:01there's not the culture to drive like

1:22:03far from the city. It's not there. It's

1:22:04not happening. Right? And instead what's

1:22:06happened is we've got quick commerce

1:22:08which is essentially it's a kirana with

1:22:11much better logistics and demand. Right?

1:22:14That's what it is. So if you can give

1:22:16trust and fulfillment to your favorite

1:22:19kirana, they already have demand. They

1:22:21have customers. You just need to get the

1:22:23loop going. Right? So I would do that. I

1:22:25would give them the toolkit to say boss

1:22:27you can do this now correct it's your

1:22:29customer you will have to evolve now you

1:22:31don't want to evolve then that's on you

1:22:33right but if the toolkit exists and you

1:22:35are willing to evolve I I see no reason

1:22:38why that customer can't have their own

1:22:39especially in tier 2 and three right

1:22:42because I think they're the sort of

1:22:43social

1:22:45I don't know the network is is a little

1:22:46bit stronger than the bigger cities

1:22:48>> sah on that note thank you so much for

1:22:50this time we really really appreciate

1:22:53the you know generally speaking I tell

1:22:55at the beginning of every podcast when

1:22:57it's on YouTube that you should watch it

1:22:58on 1.5x

1:23:00>> or 1.25x,

1:23:01>> right? But this one, please watch it at

1:23:030.75x. [laughter]

1:23:04You have to go really slow because

1:23:06there's so much packed into this and uh

1:23:09you know and you'll have to keep Claude

1:23:11open on the side to decode all the

1:23:13jargon that he threw at you guys. Okay.

1:23:15So, [laughter]

1:23:16>> sorry about that.

1:23:16>> No, no, but this was it was generally

1:23:17very awesome. Thank you, S.

1:23:19>> And we need to do a version two of this

1:23:21because there's so many more questions

1:23:22that I have not asked.

1:23:23>> Lovely. You know, lovely being here and

1:23:24lovely talking to you guys and