India's Luxury Interior Designer on The Biggest Mistakes Indian Homes Make | Masoom X Sarah Sham

0:00So, you've designed over 150 spaces and

0:04you say something really interesting

0:05that caught my attention is that 80% of

0:08the room and how it looks is decided by

0:11one thing that you do.

0:12>> It's actually lighting. Your ultimate

0:14enemy is the panel light. If you see a

0:16panel light in your house, please for

0:18the love of God, remove it. Anything

0:20that's 3,000 Kelvin, your SA light bulb

0:22for 125 rupees, please just buy it and

0:24just screw it on and change, you know,

0:26that completely. And I have 800 rupee

0:28lights in my house. By the way, I stay

0:30in a rental. I'm not spending 10,000

0:31rupees on a light fitting. First, always

0:34hang curtains from the ceiling. Always.

0:36We have nothing in our country that's

0:38beige. So, why are all our homes

0:39becoming beige with a touch of gold?

0:42Please just kill me now. Like,

0:44>> what do you think a lot of Indian homes

0:46are getting wrong that they could fix

0:48very easily?

0:48>> So, you'll have a big master bedroom,

0:50you'll have a big living room, amazing

0:52dining table, kitchen to 10 on 10. Where

0:55is your di sleeping? who stays with you,

0:57your house help on the floor. If your

0:59back of house sucks, it doesn't matter

1:00how good your front of house look, your

1:02house sucks.

1:03>> What are three 5,000 rupee upgrades that

1:06someone can do to their home that will

1:08make a huge difference?

1:09>> Even a 6ft tall palm you can get for

1:112,500 rupees. I was literally like

1:13Like that's not possible. I'm

1:16building, you know, a 30,000t home and I

1:18come home to my rental. So I myself have

1:21used stickon tiles to patch up the

1:23leakage and it's been fine. Who are

1:25these absolute idiots who would pay

1:2810,000 when you get it for 800 rupees?

1:30>> What do you consider when you're

1:32designing a Monday?

1:33>> It may sound quite unusual that I

1:37>> My guest today designs the kind of homes

1:39most of us only see in magazines, but

1:41that's not why I wanted her here. I

1:43wanted her because she keeps saying

1:45something designers aren't supposed to

1:46say that the difference between a cheapl

1:48looking home and an expensive looking

1:50one has almost nothing to do with money.

1:53She is Sarah Sham, the founder of SRG's

1:56Atalia, and by the end of this episode,

1:58she's going to fix your home and mine.

2:04>> So, you've designed over 150 spaces

2:08>> and you say something really interesting

2:10that caught my attention

2:12>> is that 80% of the room and how it looks

2:16is decided by one thing that you do.

2:18>> Yes, absolutely.

2:19>> What is that?

2:20>> It's actually lighting. um lighting

2:22plays the most crucial role. So in the

2:25early part of my career we used to buy

2:27cheap lighting regular lighting that we

2:29buy from you know local store 800 rupees

2:32a fixture 1,000 rupees a fixture because

2:34I used to see people that was selling

2:35these Italian and German light fittings

2:37or Japanese light fittings or even

2:39there's some Indian brands that do

2:40really high-end fittings and the same

2:42fitting that was 800 rupees is like

2:4310,000 rupees and visually it looks the

2:46same and if you look at the output both

2:48are yellow light so I'd be like who are

2:50these absolute idiots who would pay

2:5310,000

2:54when you get it for 800 rupees but there

2:57is a quality of light that's intangible

3:00and you know on one of my projects we

3:02did end up using the expensive lights

3:04and everything that I designed

3:06automatically looked so much better and

3:09I can't quantify it I can't tell you

3:11that it's because uh you know this color

3:14temperature is correct or the CRI is

3:16correct there's just a feeling which is

3:19inexplicable but but my reds felt deeper

3:22my blues felt not as harsh. My skin

3:25looked better.

3:27>> Really?

3:28>> Absolutely. You know, like I I looked

3:30more uh uh beautiful and pleasant and

3:32softer because the light was so good and

3:36and it's not something that's measurable

3:38or or visually there. So yeah, I think

3:40we focus so much on lighting. And then

3:42after that, I went to Italy, I went to

3:43Germany, I went into the factories, I

3:44understood every part of a light

3:46fitting, you know, why and what. And now

3:48I really can't go back. It's like um you

3:51know um the difference between a

3:53Michelin starred meal and a McDonald's.

3:55That's literally it. Both will serve you

3:57burgers, but the quality of all of it

3:59and how your body processes it is very

4:02different.

4:02>> You make me want to go home and change

4:04like my lighting right now.

4:05>> You use the 800 rupee ones. I'm

4:07surprised.

4:08>> I know. No, I don't know which one I'

4:09I've used to be really honest.

4:11>> It changes everything, you know, and and

4:14even something like, you know, it's

4:15called a cut off angle. So when you look

4:17at a light when it twinkles in your eye

4:19when you go for the higherend lights

4:21they have a very high cut off angle. So

4:24unless you're standing directly under it

4:26it doesn't twinkle in your eye. So for

4:27someone like my husband he hates light

4:30on his head because it twinkles in your

4:32eye and then you know creates shadows on

4:34your face and and I have 800 rupee

4:36lights in my house by the way. I stay in

4:38a rental. I'm not spending 10,000 rupees

4:40on a light fitting. So when that happens

4:42it it it's disturbing. Um, and yeah,

4:45once you have those higherend lights,

4:47none of that really happens along with

4:49many other things.

4:50>> But what is the reason for this? Like

4:52what are they putting in that 10,000

4:54rupee light?

4:55>> Honestly, it's like every single part.

4:58It's it's not one particular material.

5:00It's everything from the reflector to

5:02the chip to the driver uh to the actual

5:05source of light uh to the housing

5:08absolutely everything. And then there's

5:10something called uh you know CRI color

5:12rendering index which is how close it is

5:14to sunlight. So usually your regular

5:16lights will be maybe a 90 CRI or an 87

5:19CRI. Your high-end lights would go to

5:21even a 94 or 95 CRI. Uh 100 means

5:25sunlight. So it's as close to sunlight

5:27as possible. So how beautiful and warm

5:29you look in sunlight. You know how you

5:30always say golden hour and you're bathed

5:32in that golden glow. You can achieve

5:34that with artificial lighting. It's very

5:37hard, but only when you use the really

5:38high-end lighting.

5:39>> Oh, really?

5:40>> Yes.

5:41>> So, what if someone who's watching this

5:43right now is like looking up at their

5:45ceiling and looking at their lights?

5:47>> How do they know what they should

5:48change? Where should they go?

5:50>> So, the first is that your enemy, your

5:52ultimate enemy is the panel light. If

5:55you see a panelite in your house, please

5:57for the love of God, remove it. Okay.

5:59>> What's a panel light?

6:00>> It it's like this big round fitting with

6:03a uniform source of light. So as Indians

6:06we love tube lights because we've all

6:07grown up with tube lights. Okay. Uh some

6:09way or the other especially in tier 2

6:11cities no one has spotlights and all

6:13that. We have a tube light. Tube light

6:15has a color temperature of almost 7,000

6:17Kelvin. So there's a scale of Kelvin.

6:19The lower you go the more yellow it is.

6:21The higher you go on that number the

6:22more blue it is. So 7,000 Kelvin it's

6:24actually blue light. So you have this

6:27very bright blue light everywhere. And

6:30now today because people don't use tube

6:32lights, the replacement is a panel

6:34light. So it's this essentially hospital

6:36lighting that's there in your whole

6:39house and it makes everything feel

6:41colder. Um including you know you see

6:43the pores on your skin much more. Uh

6:45your your skin is all has yellow

6:47undertones as Indians we all have yellow

6:49undertones. It makes your skin look

6:50ashen. Um it all your furniture starts

6:54feeling cheap. Everything looks ugly

6:56under that light. So even if you replace

6:58that with any light that has a color

7:00temperature of 2,700 or 3,000 Kelvin,

7:03you're good. But just the panel light

7:05has to go.

7:06>> So if the panel light goes, you put

7:07spotlights instead.

7:08>> You can put spotlights. Yeah,

7:10absolutely. You can put a track light.

7:11You can put a spotlight. And and you

7:13even the 800 rupee version is going to

7:15be better than the panel light.

7:16>> I know you love our content. I don't

7:18doubt it one bit. But I'd love if you

7:20can prove it to me by hitting the

7:22subscribe button. It's just 3 in away

7:24from your thumb. Hit it and let's build

7:26the largest women content community in

7:29India. Okay. So that's step number one.

7:30>> Step number one.

7:31>> Step two. Someone doesn't have a panel

7:33light but has say spotlights. Yes.

7:35>> Or a tube light.

7:36>> Yes.

7:36>> What should they do?

7:37>> Tube light. Please do tata. Bye-bye. Now

7:39tube light. It the time has come. The

7:41time has gone. Now there are LED tube

7:43lights because people are still not

7:44ready to let go of the tube light.

7:46Please just say bye. It's okay. It's not

7:48that hard of a breakup. Please say bye

7:51to the tube light. Bye. We are done.

7:53technology has advanced so much. We've

7:56advanced so much. Why are we still

7:58hanging on for dear life to that tube

7:59light? Also, a tube light is a uniform

8:02source of lighting. And in a house,

8:04especially, I'm talking about homes. I'm

8:05not talking about a hospital, but in a

8:07home, you need some spots of of lower

8:10light, some spots of higher light.

8:12Having a house that's uniformly bright

8:15everywhere wires you too much. You're

8:17just always like awake and you're always

8:20alert. And there's a really big

8:21psychological impact on this as well.

8:23And we try and explain this to our

8:25clients uh because it's it's really bad

8:28for you actually to be in in tube light.

8:30So an interesting anecdote. I've had

8:32PCOD since I've been 13. I've always had

8:35like irregular periods. And I went to an

8:37endocrinologist and um the first thing

8:40that she told me is after 700 p.m.

8:44switch off all your white light if you

8:46want to solve your PCOD. So I said,

8:48"This is the weirdest uh you know doctor

8:51ever. Who who says that?" So she told me

8:54that essentially the part of your brain

8:56that secretes melatonin is also the part

8:58of your brain that secretes a lot of

9:00your reproductive hormones and melatonin

9:03is only secreted in really low light. So

9:06if you have a tube light uh or white

9:08blue light TV devices and blue light is

9:11also your tube light at home that's

9:13constantly overstimulating you. your

9:15melatonin is not getting correctly

9:17secreted and that actually leads to a

9:19lot of disregulation of the rest of your

9:20hormones as well. So there are

9:22psychological impact, there is physical

9:25impact to your body like it's bad for

9:27your health to live in super bright

9:30>> blue light all day and yet we do it all

9:32the time thanks to the tube light.

9:34>> Wow. Did it work by the way that

9:36>> Oh my god. Wonders. Absolute wonders.

9:39Like I thought I I've been popping pills

9:42like I was on birth control. I've taken

9:44everything single thing ever to fix my

9:46PCOD and honestly cutting out on the

9:51blue light truly helped a lot and I did

9:54take pills as well but from the natural

9:57end of the spectrum you know giving up

9:58certain foods like dairy, sugar and

10:01cutting out on blue light. Oh my god it

10:03world of a difference.

10:04>> Wow that's super interesting.

10:05>> Yep.

10:06>> We live in this world where everyone is

10:08a creator right now right? Everyone

10:10loves to take photos and videos and

10:12>> the easiest place to do that is actually

10:14in your home.

10:15>> Yes.

10:16>> What can they do with their lighting in

10:18their home to actually make that process

10:19easier?

10:20>> I think for creators uh you know

10:22artificial lighting, your ring lighting

10:24is the best because it directionally

10:26comes onto your face.

10:28>> Listen, I have been creating content for

10:3015 years. I've never used a ring light.

10:32>> I know. What? So, what do you use?

10:34>> I always use natural light.

10:36>> There we go.

10:41Every

10:45one of my clients is content creator and

10:48no matter what spaces she had, like she

10:50had an enormous kitchen, but she used to

10:52take a coffee table near her window and

10:55shoot all the content there, you know,

10:57set up a whole stove and everything and

10:59just shove it directly near the window

11:00because natural light there's no

11:02replacement. Yeah.

11:04>> Is there no replacement in natural

11:05light?

11:06>> No. No. It is God-given, nature created,

11:08>> but I've seen like these sun roof lights

11:11or

11:11>> but that that comes from the top, you

11:13know. So, while it's beautiful and we

11:15have it in our office as well. It's

11:17amazing. It by the way syncs up to like

11:19your circadian rhythm as well. So, it

11:21can go from yellow to blue, uh, lighter

11:23to darker based on the time of day. And

11:25it can also be geotagged if you want to

11:27how bright it currently is in that

11:29location. Um, so it's beautiful, but

11:31it's not for content creation because

11:33any light that's overhead will create

11:36shadows on your face.

11:37>> So you need to have a light that's at

11:39face level, you know. So that's why even

11:41when you're in a bathroom, you have a

11:43mirror and then you you can't have like

11:45that. You have to have light on your

11:46face.

11:47>> You can see how much hair is on your

11:49upper lip. You can pluck your eyebrows

11:51correctly. Absolutely. Um, otherwise,

11:52you know, I'm sure it's happened to all

11:54of us where you're in your house, you

11:56think you've groomed yourself correctly.

11:57You go out and you actually see it in

11:59either daylight or really strong light

12:01somewhere else and you're like, "Oh my

12:03god, this is what I really look like."

12:04And you're like, "Oof." Uh, and then,

12:06you know, you have to redo your makeup.

12:08>> Yeah, absolutely. Okay, agreed. I'm

12:11coming back. So, if there's spotlights,

12:12how do they go to a store and get that

12:14changed?

12:15>> Um, it's there hundreds of stores that

12:18are available. There hundreds of online

12:20options that are available. There are

12:22lots of tunable lights that are also

12:24available. Tunable is a very good option

12:26because a lot of people have a phobia of

12:28yellow light. So you can just switch it

12:30to white light in those times of days

12:32where you have an activity where you

12:33want it brighter and then take it down

12:35back down to yellow light.

12:37>> So Sarah, there's this trend right now

12:39of everything being white and minimalist

12:42and modern and beige has like overtaken

12:45our life, which by the way, this set

12:47totally is. But you you and me are

12:49living living the the trend right now.

12:51>> We're living the trend. But but to be

12:52really honest with you that there's a

12:55it's a very deep thought through um

12:58reason for why our set looks like this

13:00and why our podcast looks like this.

13:02>> So it's actually not the base trend at

13:04all that we're picking up on. It's

13:07>> it's

13:07>> it's just that because I've come from

13:10and you know my journey has begun in

13:12fashion. It's very natural for everyone

13:15to relate me to fashion and to when they

13:18look at me, they first look at what I'm

13:19wearing.

13:20>> Correct.

13:20>> It's it's like the psychological thing,

13:22right? It's just what they relate to

13:24when they see or hear Masumi Navala.

13:26>> And when we were when we launched the

13:29podcast and we were diving into

13:30different topics and different

13:32conversations, I think the first thing

13:34that we discussed as a team is how do we

13:37ensure that we can go beyond the border

13:39of fashion and beyond the boundaries of

13:41fashion. So you wanted to delete delete

13:43that aspect completely or mute it.

13:44>> We wanted to mute that aspect. We wanted

13:47to focus on the content

13:49>> so that the conversation can be the

13:52strongest point. The conversation can

13:54actually be the hero heroine of the you

13:58know of the moment

13:59>> because otherwise people are going to be

14:00too busy looking at what we're wearing

14:02or how it's styled and designed because

14:04that's kind of where my my history takes

14:07me back to.

14:08>> And you do have a very colorful sense of

14:10dress. Yeah, I do. I'm like quite

14:12experimental, quite eclectic. So,

14:14>> yeah,

14:14>> I feel like on this platform, we had to

14:17mute that down.

14:19>> So, I do feel like when it comes from a

14:20sense of

14:22>> I don't know, there's some motive behind

14:24it. It makes sense, but I feel like

14:25everyone right now everyone's homes and

14:28offices look like that, right? What

14:30what's your take on this?

14:31>> I hate it. It drives me nuts because I

14:34just like so so similar to what you

14:37said. I have one client for whom we

14:39built a very neutral beige home, but

14:42that's because her life outside is so

14:44colorful and she she herself is, you

14:47know, always dressed in all kinds of

14:49colors and whatever. So in her space, it

14:51was a very wellthoughtout uh, you know,

14:54process. But I do feel like for a lot of

14:57other people, they just lack

15:00personality. like please get out of a

15:02beige bubble. It's very ugly and and we

15:05do a lot of work in Dubai. I know I know

15:07you have a base there as well. Um oh my

15:09god it drives me mad. I feel like

15:11because everyone is from another country

15:13and everyone wants to just fit in that

15:16you forget who you are. You forget your

15:18roots. Um I live in a house with yellow,

15:20green, and red tiles. I love color. I

15:24put it in every part of of my spaces

15:26when I'm allowed to by my clients. I I

15:29wear a lot of color. Not today. Um, and

15:31I

15:31>> didn't have a choice.

15:32>> They have a choice. And I'm very

15:34colorful in general and I know a lot of

15:37people are as well. Look at the country

15:39we live in. Look at our mandr. Look at

15:41our festivals. Look at our streets. Look

15:44at our elephants that get painted in

15:46colors as well in festivals. Look at the

15:48saris. Just look at everything around

15:50you. We have nothing in our country

15:51that's beige. So why are all our homes

15:54becoming beige with a touch of gold?

15:57Please just kill me now. Like I can't

15:59deal with this one more beige home that

16:03looks incipid with no personality and

16:05you know I honestly I just can't deal

16:07with it. It's very boring.

16:09>> Honestly as someone who lives in Dubai

16:11>> Yeah.

16:11>> homes here have so much personality.

16:14>> But why shouldn't they?

16:15>> No. But but that's amazing. You need to

16:16see Dubai homes.

16:17>> I do

16:18>> like Yes, you do. You do so much work in

16:20Dubai. But it's every home looks the

16:23same. Like it literally looks identical.

16:26And and we see, you know, like we we see

16:28have clients and they be like, "Oh my

16:30god, you know, we're doing a house with

16:31so and so designer." I'm like, "Oh,

16:32awesome." And then they show me the page

16:34and not to diss anyone else's work, but

16:37every project looks the same. It's like

16:39there's not even only beast, it's beast

16:41and beast. All is the same. So it's like

16:44where is the creativity? You're just

16:45regurgitating the same design aesthetic

16:47again and again.

16:49>> And why? Who told us we all need to be

16:51the same? Like in India when we do even

16:53two apartments for a brother and a

16:55brother or a brother and sister on the

16:57same floor in the same building both are

16:59totally unrelated but in Dubai you'll

17:00have a 200 villa community where all the

17:03houses look the same.

17:05>> It's very hard for me to process

17:07>> no 100%.

17:08>> Where has the individuality gone? Like

17:11>> we always should stand out. Why do we

17:13all want to suddenly fit in? You know

17:14and our societies have never been like

17:16that. Our culture is not like that. How

17:19does one find what personality to give

17:22their home? Maybe they love the beige

17:23and maybe they love the whites and the

17:25creams and

17:26>> they love that muted palette.

17:28>> Awesome. If you really love it, then

17:30please by all means, you know, but I

17:33feel like a lot of people don't actually

17:34love it. They just don't have enough of

17:36an opinion and they feel like this is

17:38cool and so let's do it, you know. I

17:40feel like even whether it's with

17:41fashion, food, your personality, we all

17:44need to have a voice and we need to to

17:46voice it. Right? The goal is for all of

17:48us to appreciate all kinds of different

17:50people the same way you appreciate

17:52different foods, different spaces,

17:53different cultures. And if we all start

17:56becoming one homogeneous

17:58blob, where's the fun? Like where's the

18:01excitement in life, you know? So, so I

18:03think that's where my issue lies. Um I I

18:06do want us all to to have something

18:08different to say. Otherwise, won't life

18:10be so boring? M everyone wearing beige,

18:13living in beige with a hint of gold. Um,

18:16and just everything is the same. Where

18:19where do all of our personalities go?

18:21You know, it shouldn't be like that. So,

18:23you know, a lot of times people will

18:24show me homes that they feel like are

18:26overdone.

18:28>> I honestly love it because at least

18:30someone tried. At least they put

18:32something out there better than the

18:34beige bubble. If you have a home that's

18:36decorated with 300 extra elements,

18:39kudos. I like you. Good for you. You

18:42tried. You did something. You put

18:44yourself out there. You know, someone

18:45else may think it's ugly. I think it's

18:47amazing. Very good.

18:48>> The beige bubble is what gives me

18:50absolute, you know, as I would like to

18:51say, gabbrat, I just can't deal with it.

18:54Yeah.

18:54>> How does one pick a color for their home

18:57if it's not a muted palette? Like how

18:59does one know whether like this is the

19:02color I want to go for?

19:03>> Sample. Like, you know, that's the

19:05easiest way. Just keep sampling shades.

19:08But I think a lot of this masum has to

19:10just do with having guts. Like if you

19:12want to paint your whole house bright

19:14pink, just do it. Like it's your house.

19:17>> But what if I get tired of it?

19:19>> Repaint. It's fine. Like you don't need

19:21to. Like if you're doing something

19:23that's a bright color, do it in

19:25something that's not a high commitment

19:27item. Paint a wall, buy a rug, get a

19:29cushion cover, do curtains, something

19:31that you can change quite easily.

19:34>> Don't build a whole built-in set of

19:36wardrobes which has like 800 design

19:38elements on it because you will tire of

19:40that. you know that's something you have

19:41to live with for 15 years. So yeah,

19:44>> but you know, I think this is a mindset

19:46shift as well, right? Because

19:48>> even when I was doing my home right now,

19:50it was more like

19:51>> this is something I'm getting done with

19:52and I don't have to think about for the

19:54next 5 years at the minimum.

19:56>> And I think that's how most people think

19:58>> it is.

19:58>> They don't I I think people don't

20:00realize that it's actually low cost to

20:03get things changed. And I I know this

20:05because my mom is like this. She

20:07refurbishes things and corners in the

20:10house like

20:11>> all the time,

20:12>> quarterly. And I find this bizarre

20:16>> because she is the anomaly.

20:18>> But everything has a life. No mas your

20:20wallpaper is not going to last you 10

20:21years. Your wallpaper will last you 5

20:22years. So it's it's a low commitment

20:24item. You have to change it. The

20:26wallpaper will start peeling off the

20:27walls. So at that point, what you'll do?

20:29You'll buy the same wallpaper again or

20:30you'll buy something else.

20:31>> So what is the mindset? Is it is how

20:34should someone look at the space that

20:36they're living in and what the standard

20:39of that space?

20:40>> Everything has a life. Okay. So like if

20:41you're buying a marble has got a 20 year

20:43life. So select a marble that you can

20:45live with for 20 years. If you're

20:47looking at paint, you should repaint

20:49your house at least every 2 to three

20:50years. So it's not a high commitment

20:52item. So you have high commitment items

20:54like your shell structure essentially

20:56and you have low commitment items like

20:57the finishes that come into that shell

20:59structure like which plumbing pipe

21:01you're using whether you're going for

21:03like the highest end plumbing pipe or

21:05the lowest end of it that you have to

21:07make those those are very long-term not

21:09aesthetic but technical decisions and

21:11those you can't change. You can't change

21:13your kitchen. 20 years you can't change

21:15your kitchen. You have to break the

21:16whole thing, remake it. There will be no

21:17food in your house. It'll be an absolute

21:18mess. You can't change your bathrooms.

21:20You can't change your flooring. But a

21:22lot of the other stuff is all

21:23changeable. Your furniture, you can

21:24change your rugs, you can change your

21:26curtains, you can change your wall

21:27finishes, you can change uh your art,

21:29you can change. So change it. No, then

21:31refresh your house. Do it every few

21:33years. The stuff that's high commitment,

21:35be really thoughtful. Keep that neutral

21:37or whatever you feel like you can live

21:38with for long.

21:39>> What's the most common mistake you see

21:41when people are designing their home?

21:43>> Um, I think a lot of people put the

21:46wrong sizes of things. wrong size of

21:48curtains, wrong size of sofa, wrong size

21:50of rug because sense of scale and space.

21:53So, you know, say if you have a a 1,000

21:57square foot space, you can make it feel

22:00like 2,000 square ft by playing into its

22:03strengths or you can make it feel

22:05congested like a 500t home and it really

22:08matters.

22:09>> Can you give me an example of a,000 ft

22:12home and what you could do or what one

22:15could do to make that look bigger?

22:17Absolutely. First, always hang curtains

22:19from the ceiling. Always. Even if you

22:21have a window that's yay small, hang the

22:23curtains from the ceiling and keep it

22:25across because visually your eye tells

22:27you that that full wall is the window.

22:30Even if you can see that the window is

22:32only so small, the curtain is what

22:35frames it. You know, the other one is

22:36rug. A lot of people have like cleaning

22:39phobias, you know. So there'll be a huge

22:41sofa and then there's such a small rug.

22:44But again, your eye tells you that the

22:46size of the rug is the size of your

22:48living room. So you need a rug that's

22:50much larger and your living room will

22:52feel much larger. Uh conversely, sofas,

22:55there'll be a small space. Someone has

22:57placed an extra big sofa that eats up

22:59all the space. You need to have a sofa

23:01where there's enough space even at the

23:02back of the sofa. Don't touch everything

23:05to the walls. Leave some space uh and

23:09and size down on the furniture if you

23:11have to, you know, but that sense of

23:13space makes spaces feel bigger. Mirrors

23:16are your best friend. Add them. And

23:18don't add small mirrors. Again, mirror

23:21the whole wall top to bottom, you know,

23:22so it feels absolutely endless and

23:24opened up. Um lighting, we've gone

23:26through this already. Plants make a

23:29space feel so luxurious, not fake

23:32plants, real plants. Uh seeing a little

23:35bit of that browning on the leaves is

23:37amazing. And again for plants don't get

23:39small scale. Get a 7 foot big plant one

23:43in your living room. You can just see

23:45how it's transformed. So yeah,

23:47>> you know you spoke about mirrors.

23:49>> Yes.

23:49>> A lot of Indians have a lot of qums

23:51about where the mirrors should go and I

23:53think this comes in with the player

23:54Vasu.

23:54>> It does.

23:55>> How do you deal with clients that have

23:57Vasu restrictions? We all our clients

23:59are super into vasu and you know it's so

24:01strange because earlier vasu was like

24:03for a select few of our clients like

24:06maybe I want to say like 15% but now in

24:09this last few years I've seen Hindu

24:12Muslim sik pari all are vasu compliant

24:16which is very strange because it was not

24:18not like that um and I think it's become

24:21like people want to buy like an

24:22insurance policy they just want to make

24:24sure that no one come no auntie comes to

24:27their house Might as I'll get this done.

24:29Like no comes to their house.

24:31>> I adjusted my home.

24:33>> Some vastu compliance.

24:34>> No, 100%. I was like, "Might as well,

24:36might as well get it checked. Might as

24:38well be in the right direction."

24:39>> Yeah. Because later someone comes to

24:41your house and they're like, "Oh my god,

24:42you're going to fall sick or you'll have

24:43the worst luck.

24:45That is the worst feeling."

24:47>> So, I love Vasu, don't get me wrong, but

24:49the part about Vasu that bothers me is

24:51the fear-mongering, you know, and and

24:52some people do that. Like we've dealt

24:54with some vasu consultants who will come

24:56in and tell the homeowners if you live

24:58in this house you'll get cancer and die

25:00you know it's not required to be that

25:02extreme like it's a wonderful science I

25:06respect it immensely um I I absolutely

25:09love it we do all vasu compliant homes

25:12but the fear-mongering aspect of it you

25:14know that part I I don't agree with

25:16fully

25:16>> are mirrors really adding a lot to a

25:19home in terms of a design element

25:21>> absolutely because you know it doubles

25:23the light in a space, it doubles the

25:25feeling of a space. It really doubles

25:28all of it. But in Vasu, people feel like

25:30a mirror is a place where it sucks the

25:32energy out. I understand that. So, a lot

25:34of people say when you open your door,

25:36don't put a mirror right opposite the

25:38door that you open because, you know,

25:39the energy kind of goes out. And when

25:41you're sleeping at night, not to have a

25:42mirror right opposite your bed because,

25:45you know, it traps your soul or

25:46something along those lines. So, those

25:49are individual beliefs. Respect them

25:51fully. Uh we use mirrors a lot in our

25:53spaces. Even in our vasu compliant

25:54homes, there are a lot of areas you can

25:56use mirror.

25:57>> Uh a lot of walls and directions in

25:59which mirrors actually good. So we play

26:01into those and we avoid the areas where

26:03people feel like that could be a not a

26:06good idea.

26:07>> How important do you think our space is

26:09to our mental health?

26:10>> Oh my god, everything. Uh so I'll tell

26:13you my own example. I worked out of my

26:14dad's office for eight years and um we

26:17called it the dungeon lovingly. It was

26:19this uh the bottom part of my dad's shop

26:22and my dad lives in an uh my dad's store

26:24is in this old building like very old

26:26heritage building and that was actually

26:28the staff quarters uh you know kind of

26:31back of house area so it's got no

26:33natural light it's got you know two

26:34bathrooms within the space and there's

26:37just no ventilation at all like it's a

26:40completely closed basement and uh eight

26:43of us worked out of that space for eight

26:44years and it was intense like we just

26:47had one table it It's probably the size

26:49of this room that you and I are sitting

26:50in. Actually, maybe a bit smaller. And

26:52we all just sat there with no

26:54ventilation and no natural light all

26:56day. And I felt like it was fine. I

26:58wasn't paying rent. And I was like, I'm

27:00really grateful to have this space

27:01because it was in South Bombay. And we

27:03all know that's a very expensive

27:05little piece of land that I had uh for

27:08free for so many years. But uh when we

27:11shifted to our new office, the amount of

27:13positivity, productivity, change in

27:16attitude was so dramatic that I was like

27:19I really wondered like what was I doing

27:21for so long? Like why did it take me so

27:23long to get out of the basement? Yeah.

27:25And I think co has taught all of us this

27:28masum. So before co uh men are typically

27:31the people who pay and women are

27:33typically the people that run the

27:34decision-m process. Okay, there are

27:36exceptions to both uh sides of things,

27:38but this is how it typically works. So,

27:40we'd have our female clients who run the

27:42whole design process being like, you

27:44know, telling their husband like, "Hey,

27:45husband, I really want this nice

27:47kitchen." And the husband is saying,

27:49"How useless I'm not spending 30 lakhs

27:51on a kitchen? Absolutely not. Please get

27:52the 10 lakh option." And after co we're

27:56seeing all the husbands that have

27:57changed their tune because they've lived

27:59in these houses which have all the

28:00problems. And now the husbands are the

28:02ones saying, "Please give me the 50 lakh

28:04rupee kitchen. Please give me a one

28:07extra bedroom. Please put the best

28:09materials you can have in the house."

28:11Because they saw firsthand how living in

28:14a space that has issues impacts your

28:16mental health negatively. And all the

28:19things that their wives told them to do

28:20that they didn't do came back to bite

28:23them many times over. So postco there's

28:26been a huge surge in new houses that

28:28people have bought, right? And instead

28:30of buying a three-bedroom, people are

28:31just putting the money in and saying,

28:32"No, we'll do a fourth bedroom."

28:34Everyone is buying one extra bedroom and

28:36that's not gone anywhere. And they're

28:37spending much better because they know

28:40that a space impacts your mental health.

28:42>> Wow, that's so interesting.

28:44>> Yeah, I I'm sure you noticed some of

28:45that as well, right, Maso? Where were

28:47you in lockdown?

28:48>> Of course, I was super super lucky cuz I

28:52was in Europe. I was in Belgium.

28:54>> So, the rules were super different. We

28:57were allowed to be out and about. We

28:58were allowed to be in parks.

29:00>> No way.

29:00>> We had like fresh air. We were allowed

29:02to do walks. So, it was

29:04>> the the rules and regulations, you know,

29:07by the government were very very

29:10>> easygoing. It was just a lot more

29:12control. The environment, the population

29:14is controlled, right? So, you can

29:15control it far better.

29:17>> The hospitals were not so overworked.

29:19So, it was a lot more relaxed,

29:22>> which is why I know that I've had like a

29:24very different experience. But

29:27I get this from my mom, right? I'm

29:28obsessed with how my space looks and

29:30feels and I need to constantly upgrade

29:33it. Like I need to constantly be

29:35upgrading it.

29:36>> And I see the impact of it.

29:38>> I I I completely see the impact of it.

29:41Like when I wake up,

29:42>> I need to wake up in a space that feels

29:45amazing and great even if that's a

29:46temporary space.

29:48>> So even in Dubai, we were in a rental

29:49for about a year till our house got

29:51ready. But I made sure that that rental

29:54gave me like I don't I I felt like it

29:56needs to give me a certain emotion and a

29:59certain feeling and vibe and that is so

30:02important for how you perform at work as

30:05a wife as a mom. Like

30:07>> agreed

30:07>> the energy is set by how your home looks

30:11and I don't think any amount of

30:13journaling or meditation can fix that.

30:15Like I think the energy that is in your

30:18walls is in your walls. So the one thing

30:20that that upsets me the most is clutter.

30:23You know

30:24>> um my space is psychotically clutterfree

30:28because I honestly feel like in a space

30:30if you see clutter it's a busy space is

30:32a busy mind. Uh if you if you've left

30:35you know 800 things out that are not put

30:38in a right place I automatically assume

30:41that's how your brain is as well because

30:42it is a reflection of where you are at.

30:45And when you walk into someone's home

30:46and everything is in the right place,

30:48you know that their brain is I'm sure

30:50there's some science behind this, but

30:52wouldn't you agree on this that like%

30:54you see someone with a very very very

30:56cluttered home and you're like, man,

30:58this person must be super overwhelmed or

31:00juggling 800 thoughts in his or her mind

31:02at the same time and not being able to

31:03put it in the right place, you know. So

31:05even though I have two small kids at

31:07home, we never have kids toys out.

31:10Everything is put back in that place

31:12because it's a mental health thing, you

31:14know. If I have something that's lying

31:16out for more than 24 hours, I get uh

31:20irritated, upset, I can't hack it, like

31:22put it in the right place, and I'm

31:24always just cleaning all of the junk out

31:26because I don't want one extra thing in

31:28my house. Uh I I need the no clutter.

31:31>> Yeah. How does one manage that with kids

31:33though? No clutter cuz it's so tricky.

31:36Your some of your toys, like your

31:38kitchen set is so big, like your little

31:40mini piano is so big, right? Like I'm

31:42literally thinking of my kids' room

31:44right now. But yeah, that's already two

31:46items that are always outside.

31:48>> So you have a little table that they

31:50use. Like there's always some of the

31:52other.

31:52>> My mother used to do this thing when we

31:54were kids and I used to hate it. Okay.

31:56It used to Oh my god. I used to fight

31:58with her so much. And of course, safe to

32:00say, you know, cut to the story, but I'm

32:02doing exactly the same thing now. So

32:04what she used to do is she used to wake

32:05up especially on a rest day of mine like

32:08whatever work Sunday Sunday morning you

32:10know and I you know been working hard at

32:13school all week I was like super nerdy

32:14so like all the sports all the things

32:16everything Saturday all obviously all

32:18out with my friends and one Sunday

32:20morning every six weeks or so she'd wake

32:23up she'd rip open the curtains I hate

32:26waking up like that and then as she's

32:29ripped open the curtains she's banged

32:31open all the cupboards Oh my god.

32:33>> She's taking her hand and she does sweep

32:36and everything is on the floor and she

32:38just starts sorting and oh my god it

32:41used to drive me nuts. Like I was like

32:44how could you do this? This is literally

32:46like torture. First of all, I can't be

32:48woken up like this. Second of all, like

32:50I don't want to clean. Like I really

32:52don't want to clean. But she had a rule.

32:54If you have not used something in 3

32:56months, you have to give it to someone

32:57who will use it. So we were never

32:59allowed to hoard. We couldn't hoard it.

33:01she would do the you know so it's become

33:06so ingrained in me that I have to check

33:08every two months to make sure that

33:11there's even if my kids have not used a

33:12toy for more than 3 months we have like

33:14a whole chain of people that it goes to

33:16to make sure that there's first of all I

33:18don't want them to have too much stuff

33:19and second there should be no clutter in

33:21the house so so yeah I just I remove uh

33:24if it's if they're playing with it I

33:26will keep it if not out

33:28>> who do you give it to

33:30>> we have so many people. First of all,

33:32all of the stuff that we have is passed

33:33on from somebody else. I've hardly

33:35bought things for my kids. I feel like

33:37it's wasteful. For my second one, I

33:39think I bought clothes first time for

33:40her when she was like 2 years old or

33:42something. It's not about having money

33:44or not having money. It's just about

33:46being wasteful. These kids grow very

33:48fast. So we always pass it on to another

33:50new mom who has kids and you know you

33:53have that kind of chain of moms and we

33:55have so many diis that we can that have

33:57kids um other children cousins kids I

34:01mean there's a whole list of people that

34:02we always pass things on to.

34:05>> So the process that I see that everyone

34:07has today mostly is going on Pinterest

34:10saving photos

34:11>> correct

34:12>> putting together a mood board and then

34:13handing it to a contractor or designer

34:14and saying let's do this.

34:16>> Yeah. Do you think there's anything

34:18wrong with that?

34:19>> No.

34:19>> Absolutely fine. I prefer it to people

34:22first of all people trying to use AI to

34:24create their own spaces is is bottom

34:27bottom rung of like worst ways to

34:30explain things. Um because you know I

34:32feel like there's a sense of pride when

34:34you create it as well. So so you put in

34:36all the prompts and then it comes and

34:38you're like oh man actually that's

34:39really good. Like I would make a really

34:40good designer. At least Pinterest did

34:42somebody else's work so you don't have a

34:44sense of ownership. So it's easier for

34:46you to have a separation like Pinterest.

34:48We absolutely we use Pinterest all the

34:50time. We have no issues and it's better

34:52than you saying I want a simple house.

34:55Now what does simple mean? You know

34:57we've had people say I want a simple

34:58house and then they wanted to bathe

35:00everything in gold. But simple hair you

35:02know. So so I don't want these vague

35:04words. I'm most happy with images. I

35:07like this molding. I like this color. I

35:10like this detail that I can understand.

35:11I'm good with that.

35:12>> So you need that visual understanding.

35:14>> Yes. So it actually helps to do that

35:16visual research totally and have photos

35:18and videos to like reference with.

35:20>> Please do because otherwise like the the

35:22they're just using like vague language

35:23like let's use earthy tones and natural

35:26elements or it doesn't mean anything.

35:29>> Yeah.

35:29>> Be specific.

35:30>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I do think that

35:32people building homes today are building

35:35homes that photograph well.

35:37Guilty.

35:40My brief to Ashi was every corner should

35:44be a different vibe. So then when I take

35:46a picture like I have 20 places to take

35:50>> but that's a very you thing m because

35:53you're shooting so much content and you

35:54will be at home shooting content.

35:56>> Yeah that's true. I am I am for me it

35:57was like

35:58>> listen this is like an investment for my

36:01home my office everything. I'm using

36:03that space for so much.

36:05>> But actually most of our clients are

36:06super private. So like you'll see oh

36:08yeah even on our page we'll show the

36:10spaces but you'll never know who my

36:12clients are

36:13>> because they are in that ultra hni

36:16category where I'm legally not even

36:18allowed to say their names. I cannot

36:21even say I have worked for

36:23>> I can't even say. So uh they forget

36:27having their houses being Instagram

36:29friendly. They just want their houses to

36:30be functional look good and it ends

36:33there for us. When we design restaurant

36:35spaces, that becomes a really big

36:37requirement because people want to get

36:39into the space and and that virality is

36:41what people do seek when they're

36:42designing restaurants.

36:44>> But we don't approach it with that lens

36:46of like, you know, let's create like

36:48Instagram like corners. We just feel

36:50like if the space is truly that

36:52beautiful that everything automatically

36:54becomes a good place for a photo, you

36:56know. So yeah, we look at it from a

36:58different lens because if you try and

37:00design corner corner corner corner

37:02corner or this will be the spot where

37:04you can take the photo, I feel like the

37:05whole flow of the design gets lost. So

37:07we don't go down that rabbit hole.

37:10>> I want to now kind of dive into a

37:12segment where we talk about people that

37:14have want to do fixes to their home,

37:16right? So homes that they're living in,

37:18but

37:19>> they want that home to be upgraded. Can

37:22we do that sort of in a live segment so

37:24people can make that happen on a on a

37:27short-term basis, right? Like in the

37:28next few weeks, in the next few months

37:30and that's kind of what I want to dive

37:32into with you, which is um what are

37:35three 5,000 rupee upgrades that someone

37:38can do to their home that will make a

37:40huge difference or more than three?

37:42>> Cushion covers, oh my god, make a world

37:44of a difference. um lamps, you know,

37:47like a really nice bedside table lamp

37:49and a plant like a anka palm, even a six

37:52foot tall arka palm you can get for

37:542,500 rupees. So, those dramatically

37:59upgrade your home. Uh all three I would

38:01do in a heartbeat.

38:02>> So, yeah.

38:03>> Do you have any recommendations for

38:04affordable Indian brands that people can

38:06buy from for their home?

38:07>> Honestly, the best thing to do is just

38:09go into the local markets. Go to a chore

38:11bazar, go to a Jokeshwari market.

38:13Everyone has a local market which

38:15actually has the best highest quality

38:18wood because the what the other

38:21companies are using it's all particle

38:24board or things that don't actually last

38:25a long time. So if you go bargain

38:28shopping in any of those areas and I'm

38:30sure you've been to Chol Bazar. Did you

38:32go for your house?

38:33>> Yes I did.

38:33>> And what did you think?

38:34>> It was amazing

38:35>> wasn't it? Yeah.

38:36>> I mean you had to hunt a lot.

38:38>> Yeah. Yeah. But you can really have some

38:40incredible incredible pieces. But I feel

38:43like the the hack is to go with your

38:45designer.

38:45>> Yes.

38:46>> Like don't go on your own because do not

38:48trust your

38:50>> you know you just get so vulnerable in

38:51that environment and you want to buy

38:52everything. You have to go with someone

38:54who

38:54>> understands what's going to be

38:55longlasting, what's good quality

38:57>> and to edit out because you may like a

38:59100 things but it's not going to go with

39:00the aesthetic of your house. So

39:02>> to to be like no please don't don't

39:03don't do that. Like let's do this

39:05instead. And I I come from a background

39:07where my dad did this his whole life and

39:09continues to do this because he deals

39:10with art, antiques, and furniture. And

39:12so he loves a good bargain. Like he goes

39:14into all the most local markets and and

39:16buys all kinds of things. So I feel like

39:18something that's handmade and that's

39:19truly wellmade is going to be better

39:21than a lot of the online options. And if

39:24not, then you know hundreds of options

39:25out there online.

39:26>> Okay, great. Do you have any favorites?

39:28>> Uh we really love the stuff at Josmo.

39:30It's beautiful. Like uh Anelie is a

39:32friend. She does amazing amazing stuff.

39:35Uh, Gulmo Mohar Lane has lovely options.

39:37I think they're doing a very good job as

39:39well. U, I really like the stuff at Blue

39:41Loft. I'm not sure if you've ever

39:43checked them out. They do really cool

39:45stuff. Essentia Homes is lovely. We use

39:48a lot of Alzog, a lot of Manvi Home.

39:50Some of them do custom furniture. Some

39:52of them have ready pieces, but yeah, we

39:54do a mix of some of those. Oh my god,

39:56there's a brand called Fleck that does

39:58really cute smaller items. Have you used

40:00their stuff?

40:01>> I have.

40:01>> You have? I think they're doing some

40:03really cool pieces. Yeah,

40:04>> they're wonderful.

40:05>> Yeah. Yeah.

40:06>> What do you think a lot of Indian homes

40:08are getting wrong that they could fix

40:10very easily?

40:11>> You know what a lot of Indian homes are

40:13getting wrong is no thinking or planning

40:16about staff quarters, you know. So,

40:18you'll have a big master bedroom, you'll

40:20have a big living room, amazing dining

40:23table, kitchen to 10 on 10. Where is

40:25your uh Didi sleeping? Who stays with

40:27you? Your house help on the floor.

40:29There's no thought, there's no planning.

40:32uh you have upgraded your home, your

40:34life. Why is it that you're not thinking

40:36and these are full-time people that live

40:37with you? You know, a lot of people have

40:39full-time help that live with them. So,

40:42why is there such a lack of planning

40:44there? All the other areas you've

40:47planned very well. Where are you going

40:49to dry your clothes? Uh where are you

40:50going to do your ironing? In so many

40:53houses, so many houses, people are

40:54drying clothes in the guest room. They

40:56have that extendable rack. They have a

40:58fan on and they're drying. Baba, why

41:01don't you think about this? Think no

41:02little better. You know, we all air dry

41:05our clothes. So, where are you going to

41:06do that? We all have a ladder. Where are

41:09you going to put that? I think a lot of

41:10the utility and functionality aspects of

41:12the home are deprioritized for the

41:15aesthetic parts of it. Like, oh, let me

41:17have this beautiful marble inlay

41:19flooring, but my uh uh cook is going to

41:21sleep on the floor of my kitchen. So, I

41:23feel like there's a huge I I take a lot

41:25of issue with that.

41:27>> That's a really really good one.

41:29>> Yeah. And it's everywhere, Masum. Like

41:31honestly, even if you have a two-bedroom

41:32house, you you are going to have a

41:34full-time living person. That's how 80%

41:37of people live in our country. But

41:40there's just zero thought uh process

41:43behind that. And okay, if they're

41:44sleeping on the floor, there's no other

41:46space in the house. I get it. Where are

41:48you going to keep their mattress? Do

41:50they have a space to keep their things?

41:51They are also human beings that deserve

41:53some thought in the house, right? like

41:56it can't just be an afterthought where

41:58you shove them into whatever corner

41:59that's left in the space. So yeah, I

42:02mean and especially in the homes that we

42:03build, we start with understanding the

42:05utility and staff area requirements.

42:09Back of house has to equal front of

42:11house. It has to work as well. If your

42:14back of house sucks, it doesn't matter

42:16how good your front of house looks, your

42:18house sucks because there's no

42:19functionality that's there in the house.

42:21But I do feel like as a woman, and I

42:23know I'm being sexist here, as a woman,

42:26I have a better understanding of that.

42:28I've seen when a back of house is not

42:30planned properly, how a house does not

42:33function and how a house does not run.

42:35And so I'm hyper sensitive to all of

42:37these topics because it's very

42:39important.

42:39>> I love this by the way, but my question

42:41was that what is a problem someone can

42:43fix short term? So I think the one easy

42:46fix that's there to upgrade your bedroom

42:50uh well first is a mattress. Okay. I

42:52think people don't prioritize a really

42:54good mattress. Like I would spend uh uh

42:5810,000 rupees on a piece of furniture

42:59happily but I would spend 1 and a half

43:01lakh rupees on a really good mattress

43:03because the the quality of sleep that

43:06you get is amazing. Now let's assume

43:08that you don't want to spend one and a

43:09half lakh rupees on your mattress.

43:10Please change your bedding. these

43:12printed sheets with the printed blanket

43:14with the printed cushions and all the

43:16prints are in different directions. It

43:18doesn't work. And you know, people have

43:19this impression, I can't use white,

43:21it'll get dirty because you eat in your

43:23bed. You know, you do lots of different

43:25things in in your bed that may not be

43:26considered clean activities. But white

43:28is the easiest. You just have to bleach

43:30it and it's done. Every stain is removed

43:32from white. Your printed bed sheets, you

43:34can't bleach them. So, white is

43:36genuinely the easiest to maintain

43:39because it can be bleached. So, I don't

43:41know why there's such a phobia against

43:43white bedding. Um, I just find it

43:45cleaner. In fact, if there's a dag, I

43:47can see the dag. Then I can send the

43:49sheets for washing. In your printed bed

43:51sheets, you can't see uh where the

43:53stains are.

43:54>> That's true.

43:56>> Hygienic.

43:56>> Do you have any recommendations for

43:58bedding?

43:59>> Oh my god.

43:59>> And does it does it matter what kind of

44:01pillows, blankets are using?

44:03>> So, your pillows you're supposed to

44:04change, I think, every 2 years because

44:06it it has a lot of bacteria and dust and

44:09dirt that goes into it. Uh I only found

44:11out uh found out about this quite

44:13recently, like maybe a few years ago,

44:15and I had pillows that were 20 years old

44:17that I was still hanging on to.

44:20>> Uh you know, it's like got that

44:22particular type of softness. I have no

44:24idea how many bacterias I'm hugging

44:26every night or or have been, but yet

44:28it's kind of hard to say bye to your

44:29pillow, right? Like it's like an

44:30emotional support.

44:31>> 100%. It's a family member.

44:32>> It's it's a family member. Like how do

44:34you say bye? It's pretty heartbreaking

44:36that you do have to break up with your

44:37pillow uh so regularly. What should

44:40someone keep in mind when they're

44:41purchasing like petting like how do you

44:43know what blanket to buy and what pillow

44:45to buy? Like I went into the deepest

44:47dive on this topic. Yeah, I did.

44:49>> And what did you find? It was so

44:51complicated that I have it written down

44:52in my notes on my phone and I do not

44:54remember it. But it was complicated

44:57because I wanted like that fivestar

45:00hotel feel like when I sit on my bed

45:02like that's what I want and I'm not

45:04settling for lesser because

45:06>> I also feel like you know when you live

45:07outside of India

45:09>> you get this have this deep realization

45:12of

45:14>> the quality that you get in India at the

45:17price point that you get in it is

45:19>> next level phenomenal.

45:21So you automatically upgrade everything

45:23in your life because like you you're

45:25like listen I can get a far better

45:27product if I buy it in India at the same

45:30price.

45:31>> So you're automatically upgrading your

45:32choices which is what I did with my

45:34bedding and most of

45:36>> my home is in Dubai but everything in my

45:39home is from India.

45:40>> We tell our Dubai clients this all the

45:42time. We said you'll still spend 100

45:43rupees but what you get for 100 rupees

45:46somewhere else

45:47>> the same 100 rupees you spend in India

45:49you will get much better quality. You'll

45:51get natural fabrics, you'll get natural,

45:53you know, materials%.

45:55>> Yeah. So, I think for bedding, a lot of

45:56people focus on thread count, like

45:58having, you know, thousand thread count

46:00sheets. But from a lot of people that

46:02I've spoken to, that's actually not the

46:03best way forward because a lot of those

46:05sheets are made for much colder climate,

46:07and it doesn't actually keep you as cool

46:10as you should be. So, I think a 600 to

46:12800 thread count is good. Don't go lower

46:15than that because every time you wash

46:16your sheets, then the sheets kind of

46:18start coming apart. So instead of

46:20replacing your sheets ever so often,

46:21you're better off spending money once

46:23and then it's that penny wise pound

46:25foolish thing. It lasts you a bit

46:26better. And I have recently switched to

46:28a silk pillowcase. Do you use one? I got

46:32one. It was like um I think 6,000 rupees

46:35for the pillowcase and I was like this

46:37seems like a royal waste of money. Like

46:40why would you spend that money? Oh my

46:43god, it's made such a difference. Like

46:44my hair is not like all messy in the

46:46morning. I mean, my skin feels better

46:48and my silk pillowcase has gone for wash

46:50and it's not been there for the last 2

46:52three days and I'm just feeling like oh

46:53my god no like when is it coming back

46:54like please can I just have my

46:56pillowcase back?

46:57>> That's a great sleeping hack.

46:58>> It is. It really is you know and like in

47:01because we put all like creams on my

47:03face and my hair is typically blow dried

47:05or whatever. So it it it makes a huge

47:08difference. I think just that one

47:10pillowcase changing and everyone said it

47:12made a huge difference and I'm I was

47:14literally like like that's not

47:16possible and now I've been using it for

47:18like maybe a month and a half and wow

47:19what a difference.

47:20>> Okay. Amazing. Amazing.

47:22>> I'm I'm on that silk pillowcase team. So

47:25I love it.

47:27>> It really does.

47:28>> I also just love how it feels for your

47:29skin.

47:30>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

47:32>> Also it's kind of like

47:34>> I deserve this, right? It's such a like

47:36it's such a treat to yourself

47:38>> and it's nice to have a treat for the

47:39whole night. So it's like you know for a

47:42lot of people it's also about like

47:43little luxuries you know that's why I

47:45was mentioning earlier like even if you

47:46get a really nice lamp like a 5,000

47:48rupee lamp but you look at it every

47:50night before you sleep uh or you have a

47:52really nice blanket or you have a really

47:54nice fragrance in your bathroom. You

47:56don't have to have a 35 lakh rupees

47:58sofa, but you can have little luxuries

48:00that you touch, feel, and experience

48:02every day like your silk pillowcase that

48:05make you feel like you've upgraded your

48:07life, you know, and and that really goes

48:09a long way because a lot of those touch

48:10points, even something like cooking

48:12pans, you know, instead of going for

48:14your regular ones, you have nicer serve

48:16wear, cutlery, crockery, like how you

48:18eat, how you cook, all of those things

48:21that you touch on an everyday basis. If

48:23you upgrade those, it you don't have to

48:25necessarily break and redo your whole

48:27house to feel like you've upgraded your

48:28life.

48:29>> You know, I think a lot of my community

48:32is millennials.

48:34>> And I think all of us are in this phase

48:36where we've had children

48:38>> and whether we're religious or not, we

48:40do feel like this

48:43>> responsibility to make sure that we have

48:46some space for

48:48>> religion or spirituality in our homes.

48:50And I've seen a lot of your content

48:51around mandras

48:53>> which performs really well because

48:54people are very very interested in

48:56mandras and how mand should be designed.

48:58>> Yeah.

48:58>> But I'd love to hear from you you know

49:00what do you consider when you're

49:02designing a mandonder or what is what

49:03should someone really be looking for.

49:05>> So I I'm agnostic by the way. I don't

49:07believe in religion at all. Uh my family

49:09is Muslim. Um and my husband's my

49:11parents are bori. My husband's family is

49:13Sunni. And so it's quite uh uh

49:17it may sound quite unusual that I enjoy

49:20designing mandras especially since I'm

49:22agnostic but I really love it like I

49:25absolutely love designing mandras

49:26because how someone worships is so

49:28personal to them and I like

49:30understanding what that journey and

49:32process is for someone they want to like

49:35you know spend hours in there sitting on

49:36the floor feeling very connected for

49:39other people it's only a two minutes a

49:40day they want it all to be very white

49:42someone wants it very colorful So for me

49:44I like the the human psychology aspect

49:47of it. It's not about how many bhajans

49:49have you sang or or you know how close

49:51are you to God. It's more about

49:53understanding them as a human being and

49:55what really makes them feel at peace and

49:58that's why I love designing mand because

50:00it means something so different to

50:02everyone and I just love that. So for

50:05you to feel at peace it may mean a for

50:08someone else to feel completely at peace

50:09it may be completely the opposite. So

50:11for example in the south a lot of people

50:13want a lot of wood and black in their

50:15mandras like a lot of wood and and black

50:18is a very powerful color but if you go

50:20into Rajasthan in the north you can't

50:22have any black in the mandr you know

50:24black in the mandr is something that

50:25people are like shocked by how could you

50:28put black in the mandr but in the south

50:30there's a lot of black like a lot of the

50:32main idols are all made out of black

50:34stone uh so it's a very powerful and

50:36important color so I just love the the

50:38angle and the aspect of it because once

50:40One says that you know everything has to

50:42be like this. The other says everything

50:44has to be like that. I am fascinated by

50:46it. I I love it. I I think it's it I

50:50just like it. It's cool. And we love

50:52designing mandras. Mandras and kids

50:54rooms. I really enjoy designing.

50:55>> Really?

50:56>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

50:58>> So what should one like let's say like

51:00you know mandras are beautiful and

51:02obviously I think they

51:03>> come out also spectacularly when you

51:06have the space for it.

51:07>> Yes.

51:07>> But let's say there's someone who

51:08doesn't have that much space for it. but

51:10still wants a dedicated area.

51:12>> Yes.

51:12>> What should that look like?

51:14>> Honestly, I feel like you know as per

51:16traditional vasu the mandr was always in

51:18the courtyard of the home like the heart

51:20of the home. So even if you think about

51:22it, place your mandr somewhere where

51:24everyone can be a part of the

51:26celebration. Don't put it away in some

51:28corner because even you know the the

51:30bell of the mandr the sound of puja it's

51:33very powerful or even the sound of one

51:36chant a gatri mantra whatever it is that

51:38that you may be doing during your

51:40religious uh uh time it it should the

51:43energy should be in the whole house.

51:45>> So I think the mistake that people make

51:46is they try and create this off side

51:49corner room which is locked away

51:51somewhere. My my take on it is and again

51:54I'm no mandr expert here is keep it as

51:57connected to everyone. So whichever room

51:59you're in in the house all the good

52:00energy comes to you. Uh so it can even

52:03be something small that you put in one

52:05of the walls of your living room area. A

52:07lot of people have mandras in their

52:08kitchen. Uh it's awesome. You know I

52:10feel like it's food is so important to

52:13us and the energy in food is so

52:15important to us. So I love the idea of a

52:17kitchen and mandr being next to each

52:18other. Um, uh, everyone, like I

52:20mentioned, has different ways of doing

52:22it. But if I didn't have a lot of space,

52:24I would put a mandre in my living room,

52:26like something that opens and closes. So

52:28there's a bit of, you know, you can even

52:29close the mandr off if you're

52:31entertaining in your living room space

52:32and you don't want everyone to see

52:34>> because it's private, right? Like how

52:36how you worship, what's there in your

52:38mandr. It's not for public consumption.

52:40So yeah.

52:40>> What is the one sort of centering moment

52:43when you're designing a kid's room? Like

52:45what does it revolve around? Or is it

52:46the toy storage or is it the how they

52:49sleep?

52:50>> No, no, it's making sure there is open

52:52space. I think that's the biggest

52:54mistake people make when designing kids

52:55rooms is they they cram it with

52:58absolutely everything. But for most of

53:00our kids, they just need space to play,

53:04you know. So if it means going from a

53:06double bed to a single bed and pushing

53:08the single bed against a wall so that

53:10they have space, that is what kids

53:13really value because otherwise that's

53:15how the toys end up in your living room.

53:17That's how everything ends up trailing

53:18out because there's no empty space in

53:21the room. So for me, uh my kids, we live

53:23in like an old style home. Their room is

53:26large, but we've still given them bunk

53:28beds. There's more than enough space for

53:30them to have their own individual bed.

53:31And we've kept a huge open area. And

53:34there's so much space. There can be five

53:36kids doing a playd date there. And so we

53:38really try no matter what the size of

53:39the room is. We do a lot of Bombay

53:41homes. So it's not like every home is,

53:42you know, a sprawling 50,000 foot space.

53:46>> Even if it's a small room, it's empty

53:48space. That's what people forget about

53:50the most. And accessible toy storage. We

53:53love making kids independent. People put

53:56like these heavy cupboard shutters that

53:57you have to open. There has to be a lot

53:59of stuff that kids can access. And then

54:01stuff that your kids can't access

54:03obviously, but there has to be a way

54:05that your child can be independent and

54:07play within that room and take

54:09everything out and have the option to

54:11put it all back uh where it belongs.

54:13>> 100%. No, you're right.

54:14>> Yeah.

54:16>> So, I know you run a super successful

54:19interior and design company, but I also

54:21know that you live in a rented home.

54:23>> Yes, I do.

54:24>> So, where does that thought kind of stem

54:25from?

54:27>> Uh, well, I can't afford a home yet. I'm

54:29in the process of buying a home. Uh so

54:32it'll take a few years to come up, but I

54:34do feel like it's such a huge contrast.

54:37I'm building, you know, a 30,000 foot

54:39home and I come home to my rental. Um so

54:43yeah, and we've rented for the last 10

54:45years since I got married. Um and uh

54:47it's I've never rented before that. Uh I

54:49always stayed with my parents and my

54:51parents always had their own home. So

54:52it's been a new journey for me and it's

54:55been quite challenging uh to understand

54:57how rentals work because it's a very

54:59different thought process.

55:00>> What is the thought process?

55:02>> So you know like in most of the rentals

55:03you go into the bathrooms and kitchens

55:05are just horrible like really bad you

55:08know and and and so that's that's a bit

55:10difficult for me was a bit difficult for

55:12me to initially process because when

55:15it's your own home you're good to put in

55:17a lot of money and redo some of those

55:19big pieces. But when it's a rental, you

55:21do feel like, "But I'm only renting. Why

55:23would I bother with breaking and

55:25remaking a lot of stuff?" So, there have

55:28been a lot of really good rental hacks

55:29that we've accumulated through the years

55:31that have been very helpful. And

55:33honestly, it's really helped me even in

55:35my luxury business because while uh I no

55:38longer have, you know, budget based

55:40clients, I still very much know how to

55:42do things on a budget.

55:44>> Wow, that's lovely. So, let's actually

55:46start with talking about bathrooms and

55:47rentals. How do you hack that?

55:50>> Stick tile on tile. Okay. So, even in my

55:52current space, the bathrooms were the

55:54tiles were really really ugly. So, you

55:57know, if you let's assume you you have

55:58this bathroom and you have this horrible

56:00shower fitting and this one really

56:01rotten looking tap. Uh if you break the

56:04whole bathroom, you have to redo the

56:05waterproofing. It's a very long process.

56:08So, what you can actually do is leave

56:09the back fittings. Um, take tile, any

56:13kind of tile that you like, stick it on

56:15top and change the front fittings so the

56:18back housing all remains the same. And

56:21in literally 2 weeks and at a fraction

56:24of the cost, you can have an all new

56:26bathroom. Is this a long-lasting

56:27solution? Absolutely not. Is it good for

56:29renters? Absolutely. Yes. So, it works

56:32well. I've been renting in my current

56:33house for 5 years. Um, and we've done

56:36exactly this and it's been absolutely

56:38fine.

56:39>> Wow. Yes.

56:39>> That's fab. Yes.

56:41>> What about kitchens and rentals, right?

56:43Because they're always dated and

56:45probably not the aesthetic of what you

56:47want it to look like.

56:48>> The kitchens is really hard. The one

56:50that I would consider is, you know,

56:52maybe replacing the shutters, like keep

56:54the back carcasses and only look at

56:56changing the shutters on the front

56:58because uh you wouldn't want to break

57:00and redo a full kitchen. And the other

57:02one is that there are these stick on

57:04tiles that are there that you can put on

57:05on your backsplash. So, your countertop,

57:07whatever it is, it is. But you can use

57:09stick on tiles and I I live in like a

57:11heritage one graded property. Um it's

57:14it's like a UNESCO world heritage

57:16building because we stay in South Bombay

57:18in one of these old buildings and uh we

57:20have ridiculous leakage. The building is

57:22beautiful. The leakage is oh my god it's

57:25such a traumatizing tub. Every monsoon

57:27there's leakage everywhere. So I myself

57:29have used stick on tiles to patch up the

57:32leakage and it's been fine. It's 2 years

57:34I've had those tiles stick on tiles to

57:37conceal this very bad spot of leakage.

57:40I'm fine with it.

57:41>> Really?

57:42>> Yeah. I'm not going to break and do mu.

57:45Why don't like why would I uh break my

57:47head and I'm living in the house. How

57:48will I manage? I've got two kids. I've

57:50got two dogs. I can't manage this

57:52breaking and redoing while I'm living in

57:54the house. So, I have to find simpler

57:56hacks for it.

57:57>> Oh, of course. Of course. Let's talk

57:58about the bedrooms. What's the best way

58:00to

58:01>> spruce up the bedrooms to make it your

58:03style and vibe?

58:04>> We we thankfully had a completely

58:06unfernished space because we had some

58:08old furniture. So, um we had a chance to

58:12redo all the furniture, but that did

58:14mean a lot of extra headache. But that's

58:15fine. I'm It's my job. So, for me, I'm

58:18very happy to. But we did a really

58:20beautiful texture paint across all the

58:22walls. And I think that that brings a

58:25lot of luxury into it. So, it was

58:27literally just a paint on the walls that

58:28that I think elevated it. Uh, we have

58:31lovely curtains that go all the way from

58:32the top with shears and lots of plants.

58:36So, it really feels like a home, you

58:38know.

58:38>> Yeah.

58:39>> Amazing. Now, if you do you want do you

58:42want to dive into some of the hacks for

58:43rentals?

58:44>> Yeah, absolutely. I mean, first, I feel

58:46like IKEA is your best friend. Like, I

58:48really love we've my main living room

58:50sofas are from IKEA. I have no problems

58:53with IKEA at all. Even as someone that

58:55does luxury homes, sometimes it just

58:58works and you just need uh something

58:59that works for you well for the time

59:02that you're renting. Once I buy my

59:04permanent home, I'm sure I will get

59:06furniture that feels a bit more

59:07permanent and not not transitional. So

59:10that for sure, please switch out all

59:12your light bulbs to yellow light. It's a

59:14very easy hack. You just have to screw

59:16them on, screw them off, and that's also

59:18completely done. Um

59:19>> which is the light bulb that someone

59:21should buy? Any light bulb that is a

59:24yellow light, 2,700 Kelvin, please, if

59:27if you really are not getting 2,700,

59:293,000 Kelvin is also okay. Anything

59:32that's 3,000 Kelvin, your Sada light

59:34bulb for 125 rupees, please just buy it

59:36and just screw it on and change, you

59:38know, that completely. Um, then the

59:40other one that I think really goes far

59:42is one chandelier or decorative light.

59:45So we had some from my previous house

59:48and you know we've just kind of hung a

59:49couple of them lower and it's completely

59:51transformed the space. It's now looking

59:53like palacial and big and earlier I

59:56remember when my dad came to see the

59:57place for the first time he said this is

59:59a bhud bangla you can't live here and he

1:00:01was like freaking out that we were going

1:00:03to take this house but you know some of

1:00:05those elements really help and I have

1:00:08more than like a hundred artworks in my

1:00:10house uh yeah more than 100

1:00:12>> more than 100 yes yes now I started

1:00:15stacking I used I studied art history uh

1:00:17previously and I used to work as an art

1:00:19consultant as one of my many gigs so I

1:00:22still collect art like an absolute

1:00:23psychopath. So, you know, I'm sure I

1:00:24don't know. Are you like this with

1:00:25fashion masum? You see something, you

1:00:27have to buy it.

1:00:28>> Um, no

1:00:29>> bags.

1:00:30>> No, nothing. Nothing. I'm actually not

1:00:32like

1:00:34>> I'm I'm not a crazy consumer.

1:00:35>> Oh, you're not?

1:00:36>> Yeah, cuz I I have so much and I receive

1:00:38so much

1:00:39>> as a part of this job. Like, it is. Talk

1:00:42to me about clutter. We'll talk about

1:00:44that.

1:00:45>> But you receive so much. So I really I

1:00:48know what I want and I'll only get

1:00:50something if I really really want it.

1:00:51>> Okay, got it. So So I'm okay with

1:00:54everything else but when I see art

1:00:55something just takes over my system and

1:00:58like it's literally like you know my

1:00:59fingers start itching to take out my

1:01:01wallet like it's so so now I told my

1:01:04clients like I'm scared of coming out

1:01:05shopping with you because you will not

1:01:07buy something but I am 100% going to buy

1:01:09something and come out. I can't resist

1:01:11like I it's something I just get

1:01:13possessed like some ghost has entered my

1:01:15body and is telling me buy the art buy

1:01:18the art and I'm like but I can't buy any

1:01:19more art I'm done but it's like a like

1:01:22you know some people just get obsessed

1:01:24with jewelry or whatever it is I have

1:01:26that with art so I have more than 100

1:01:28paintings in my house and it has

1:01:30transformed the space because we don't

1:01:32really have any empty walls so it's just

1:01:35filled to the brim with so many

1:01:36different art and everything tells a

1:01:37story. I think this goes back to what we

1:01:39were talking about earlier about having

1:01:40personality.

1:01:42>> I think initially when I was building my

1:01:44spaces, I didn't have a lot of

1:01:45personality. So, I felt quite like meek

1:01:47and timid and I didn't want to do a lot

1:01:48of louder colors and then over time

1:01:50because I've done so many spaces, I

1:01:52found my voice as well, which is why I

1:01:54love uh even if you were living in a

1:01:56rental, just go wild, enjoy, have fun.

1:01:59Uh we all live once, so why shouldn't

1:02:01you? Like why should your life be

1:02:03boring?

1:02:03>> 100%.

1:02:04>> Even if it's a rental.

1:02:05>> Yeah. But yeah, if you have a rental,

1:02:07start investing in art. And the best

1:02:09thing is the art can come with you

1:02:11wherever you go, right? It's not it. And

1:02:14art is the best investment because

1:02:15imagine you see it every day and you

1:02:17derive value from it every day. So why

1:02:20wouldn't you invest in art? Don't invest

1:02:22in breaking the kitchen, please. But

1:02:24invest in art. Like that's that's where

1:02:26I would put my money.

1:02:28>> Amazing. So I know that. So how many

1:02:32projects are you currently running right

1:02:33now? We have about 55 projects going on.

1:02:36>> Wow.

1:02:36>> Yes.

1:02:37>> All over India. But also

1:02:38>> all over the world. Yeah. Because we're

1:02:40doing in Africa. We have some in

1:02:41America. We have one in Europe. Uh we

1:02:43have an office out in Dubai where we're

1:02:45doing a bunch of projects and then

1:02:46across India.

1:02:47>> Incredible. And I'm sure your team is

1:02:49very large.

1:02:50>> Team is large. We're about 60 of us. Um

1:02:52and they are the most capable 60 people

1:02:54I could have ever dreamed of. So yeah.

1:02:56Really?

1:02:57>> Yes. Absolutely. Yeah.

1:02:58>> And along with this you have like a

1:03:00thriving content career.

1:03:03Uh I yeah I mean I guess I was I was

1:03:06about to like say it's not thriving but

1:03:08then I realized I shouldn't be mean to

1:03:09myself. Yes, I enjoy making content and

1:03:12uh it's been fun. Like I think I used to

1:03:14be a news anchor and so uh being in

1:03:17front of the camera is very easy for me

1:03:19and and so content creation came very

1:03:21easily to me and then it just kind of

1:03:23fed into my career. Uh, I know we were

1:03:25having a bit of an offline chat before

1:03:27we started this podcast, but I do

1:03:28completely accept that I would not have

1:03:31the opportunities that I have today had

1:03:33I not had this content creation angle.

1:03:36There are a lot of designers that

1:03:37started their careers at their same time

1:03:38as me or even before. But because I do

1:03:41have a social media presence, I get a

1:03:44lot of opportunities that those same

1:03:45designers don't get. And that doesn't

1:03:46mean it's not because I'm a better

1:03:48designer. It's literally just because of

1:03:49the content piece. I'm acutely aware of

1:03:52it. I'm fully aware and I fully accept

1:03:54it and I'm really grateful for

1:03:56everything that the content creation

1:03:57piece has gotten me.

1:03:59>> That's brilliant and I'm honestly so

1:04:01proud that you've cracked this. And the

1:04:03reason I want to ask you a few questions

1:04:04on this is because so many people are

1:04:07realizing the importance of building and

1:04:10having a personal brand

1:04:11>> now more than ever.

1:04:14>> Um, and it doesn't have to be a content

1:04:18creation business, right? It could be

1:04:20any business that you're running, but

1:04:22content that supports it and probably

1:04:24just intensifies that business and leads

1:04:26to more revenue, more growth, more

1:04:28profitability, all of that. But how did

1:04:31you crack it, right? And how do you

1:04:33crack it? If you're running 55 projects,

1:04:36how do you find the time for content?

1:04:38>> I want to ask you, Basu, before I ask

1:04:41answer this is that you had a personal

1:04:43brand before anyone else knew what

1:04:45personal branding was. What did you do

1:04:47or what is your take on all these people

1:04:49that are now trying to create a personal

1:04:52brand for themselves?

1:04:54>> I think it's phenomenal.

1:04:55>> You love it.

1:04:56>> For me, I feel like listen, I've climbed

1:04:59this mountain and I've had the most

1:05:01incredible view and now I finally get to

1:05:03share that with so many people. Come

1:05:05join me. Yeah, it's it's incredible

1:05:07because

1:05:09>> I think the kind of access opportunity

1:05:12also connection community like there is

1:05:16>> so much you gain when you share what you

1:05:19have with the world.

1:05:20>> Agreed.

1:05:20>> I think what people get confused about

1:05:23is that creating content is a selfish

1:05:26act and I think that's when you lose. As

1:05:29soon as you create content to add to

1:05:31people's lives, you receive in

1:05:34multiffold. And I think that's what that

1:05:36missing link is. What people miss. You

1:05:38cannot build a personal brand selfishly.

1:05:41>> Yeah.

1:05:41>> Your personal brand will only be

1:05:43successful if you have something to give

1:05:44to people and you have something to

1:05:46share that will add value to people's

1:05:48lives. That's the unlock. And I think

1:05:50that's what the secret source is. But

1:05:54>> so so that's where my issue is with with

1:05:56uh when I view other people that because

1:05:59now this personal brand has become a

1:06:00topic. It really wasn't. Now everyone is

1:06:03throwing this word around. Let's build a

1:06:04personal brand. Let's you know but I

1:06:07think this so some part of it I'm like

1:06:09amazing you know we should all have a

1:06:11voice m much like what you said and some

1:06:13part of it I feel like is very crafted

1:06:15and cured and people are forgetting just

1:06:17to be themselves. The goal is just be

1:06:20you and say what you want to say. Don't

1:06:23don't think that I should create a

1:06:25personal brand. So for me that's exactly

1:06:27what I did. I I spoke honestly. I spoke

1:06:30authentically. Um the first video that I

1:06:32did that that is what started this was a

1:06:34video I made six years ago. I was um uh

1:06:377 months 6 months pregnant. Co had hit.

1:06:40Uh it was March 2020 and um I made this

1:06:43video then and it was called 10

1:06:45learnings from 10 mistakes I made. So, I

1:06:47shared all the mistakes I had made. I

1:06:49was like, I'm never going to get a

1:06:51client ever from this because people are

1:06:52going to say she's so dumb. She made so

1:06:54many mistakes. And now she's telling

1:06:55everyone all the mistakes she made. So,

1:06:57like you're saying, it was just me

1:06:59genuinely trying to teach something or

1:07:02give someone information that they would

1:07:03be able to take. And through that, then

1:07:06a lot of those videos, people were like,

1:07:07"Oh my god, wow, these are all the

1:07:09mistakes we shouldn't make." And weirdly

1:07:10enough, master got clients from that

1:07:12because clients are like, "She's able to

1:07:13accept her mistakes. Let's hire her."

1:07:15And then after that I shared I've shared

1:07:17absolutely everything. How to get

1:07:20published in a magazine, how to uh you

1:07:23know hire a contractor, what is there in

1:07:24my legal documents and contracts I've

1:07:26shared hundreds of times. We've shared

1:07:28absolutely everything from vendors to

1:07:31whatever and I'm not sure if you know

1:07:32but we have a community of like 15,000

1:07:34designers that we run which is a a free

1:07:36of cost thing that we do um just to make

1:07:39sure that everyone continues to share

1:07:41information. So personal branding was

1:07:45never the goal. The goal was just to

1:07:47help people and to be me and and through

1:07:49that now a personal brand has gotten

1:07:51created.

1:07:51>> But that's because you're inherently

1:07:53confident.

1:07:53>> Yes.

1:07:54>> For a lot of people the what they need

1:07:58to overcome is the confidence of

1:07:59speaking to the camera.

1:08:01>> And I think for you, you've already

1:08:02unlocked that probably cuz you were a

1:08:04news anchor before.

1:08:06>> But for so many,

1:08:07>> it's a journey, right? Right. And I

1:08:08think at some point the journey you

1:08:10realize that okay it has to be me being

1:08:11fearless and me being authentic.

1:08:13>> But for so many that's step eight and

1:08:15not step one.

1:08:16>> No but the p the path that that that

1:08:18bothers me is that people are doing it

1:08:21for their own gain to create a personal

1:08:23brand that will then eventually lead to

1:08:25something for them. But

1:08:26>> why not? That's like anyone running any

1:08:27business.

1:08:28>> But the point is to do it because you

1:08:30like it because you want to do it. Not

1:08:33not because someone is going to give you

1:08:34something by doing it. You know what I

1:08:36Like I feel like the intention of it has

1:08:38to be correct and then I'm alied.

1:08:41>> I don't know. I I have a bit of a

1:08:42different view on this because for me

1:08:45I've always when I started off like I've

1:08:48always viewed it as a business, right?

1:08:50>> Yes.

1:08:50>> Like any other business in the world,

1:08:53>> profitability

1:08:55can be your first and foremost intent.

1:08:58So if someone is doing it to gain

1:09:00something out of it, that's like why is

1:09:03content why should content be something

1:09:06that is

1:09:09charity or just to give? I'm saying that

1:09:11you can build a successful business by

1:09:12adding value to others. Yes.

1:09:14>> But if your first and foremost intent is

1:09:16to make money from it or to build a

1:09:18business for yourself which is selfish

1:09:20that's okay. That's like any other

1:09:23business. That's like having a business

1:09:24in you know home and furnishings or

1:09:26fashion.

1:09:27>> Yes. or engineering right like it's

1:09:30>> why do people work they put they work to

1:09:32put food on the table

1:09:33>> so so to for my industry when I started

1:09:36no one was creating content in the home

1:09:38space uh quite this way and now over the

1:09:40last few years so many people have

1:09:42started sharing so much information and

1:09:45I it I absolutely love it like for me I

1:09:48think it's the best biggest most amazing

1:09:52thing I'm not saying that I I I have

1:09:54opened the doors for everybody or

1:09:55anything but truly there was no one that

1:09:57was creating content at the time uh the

1:09:59way that I was and now it's very common

1:10:02like everyone is sharing all their

1:10:04information all their hacks how they did

1:10:06this how they did they did that so that

1:10:08part I absolutely love but when someone

1:10:10is trying to craft a personal brand

1:10:13image

1:10:14>> which is inauthentic to who they really

1:10:16are

1:10:17>> that's what I I continue to have a

1:10:19problem with you know like

1:10:21>> or you think it's sometimes too

1:10:22orchestrated

1:10:23>> it's too orchestrated that's what I have

1:10:25a problem with like make the

1:10:27uh you know we we can all completely

1:10:29coexist together. But more than

1:10:31anything, just be authentic. That's the

1:10:33key. There's no there's no other secret

1:10:35source. You know, be authentically you

1:10:38and everything else will follow. That's

1:10:40the only secret source that there is.

1:10:42And that's where some somewhere in this

1:10:45you know, let's create a personal brand

1:10:47for you. Oh, one pillar is this and one

1:10:49pillar is this. In some of that

1:10:51orchestration, some of that authenticity

1:10:53gets becomes a kachumbar. So that's

1:10:55that's my issue because now having a

1:10:57personal brand is so important to so

1:11:00many founders and for some people they

1:11:02hate making content but they have a

1:11:04team.

1:11:04>> Oh my god. But for them I just say I

1:11:06said why you

1:11:07>> I agree. I agree. But then they have

1:11:08these teams that are telling them you

1:11:10need a personal brand because you are a

1:11:11founder of a whatever 200 cr business.

1:11:14So now you create a personal brand. You

1:11:15see these guys and it doesn't feel like

1:11:17they're happy to be there. But because

1:11:19having a personal brand is so important.

1:11:21They're just there like you know soul

1:11:23has left their body but they're just

1:11:25there doing these dancing reels

1:11:27>> to to you know

1:11:29>> of course absolutely

1:11:30>> personal brand so so that's my only

1:11:32issue apart from that I feel like we

1:11:35should all

1:11:36>> fully collaborate coexist share help

1:11:39make lots of money together I'm with you

1:11:42I'm with you fully on that

1:11:43>> how do you logistically manage this like

1:11:45operationally

1:11:47>> how do you manage creating content

1:11:49versus

1:11:50>> running your business and then how do

1:11:51you manage your time?

1:11:52>> My business is my biggest baby. My uh

1:11:56most prized child is my business. I'm

1:11:59most possessive about my business. The

1:12:02content piece I used to do because I

1:12:04liked it. Then it kind of became this

1:12:05beast that I had to feed because you

1:12:07know once it starts then then it I can't

1:12:11just suddenly be like sorry guys not

1:12:12feeling like it today. So the girl who's

1:12:14been creating content for me Shrea love

1:12:16you. Um she's been she's my ex-client

1:12:18and now I'm her client. Uh I did a house

1:12:20for her and now she's been running my

1:12:23social media forever. We will shoot once

1:12:25every now 6 weeks. It used to be two or

1:12:28three months and we'll shoot all our

1:12:30content together. It's completely batch

1:12:32produced. Now people feel like I must be

1:12:35all day uh creating content. Uh but I

1:12:39have a lot of work to do. I have a lot

1:12:42of stuff that's going on. Content

1:12:43creation is not my job. I make zero

1:12:45money off content creation. I'm not a

1:12:47content creator. It's uh it's a

1:12:51extension of my business. Exactly. I do

1:12:54it so that I have a p a public presence

1:12:56that my clients can look to, but under

1:12:59no circumstances will I ever forget that

1:13:01I have clients. I need to service them

1:13:0395% of the time. 5% of the time I'm good

1:13:06to do other things which include social

1:13:08media. So once we shot almost like I

1:13:10think like 45 or 50 deals in one day.

1:13:13Just kept changing outfits.

1:13:14>> Wow.

1:13:15>> Oh my god. I was mentally just so done.

1:13:17I think me and Shria both didn't want to

1:13:19see each other for a long time after

1:13:20that. We both said bye now for two

1:13:22months. You don't call me, you don't

1:13:24message me, you don't do anything.

1:13:25>> And then who's posting it for you?

1:13:27>> I don't do anything, Masum. I'm not It

1:13:29is all Shrea. Uh recently I've revived

1:13:32my or started my personal page, my own

1:13:36page that I enjoy doing because I'm I'm

1:13:38kind of I always used to enjoy creating

1:13:40content before it became this beast

1:13:42which became too hard for me to keep up

1:13:44with. So that I'm more involved with um

1:13:47and that I do only in my free time. I

1:13:49don't have any pressure.

1:13:50>> So would you say that an important piece

1:13:52of this personal branding puzzle is

1:13:54having someone in your team in your

1:13:56corner

1:13:57>> who's pretty much a content

1:14:00>> strategist or a because they're also

1:14:02posting for you on your behalf.

1:14:03>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. I can't do

1:14:05anything without Sha and her team. Like

1:14:08it's just not possible. like I'm I would

1:14:11I spaced out so many times on my content

1:14:13before she was there which is why even

1:14:15though she was my client called her

1:14:17being like hey listen do you have any

1:14:18advice for me and the call ended with me

1:14:20being like dude just do it I can't do

1:14:22this anymore like it's tiring um so yeah

1:14:25and I'm not sure how you do it masum

1:14:28because it's very very taxing and don't

1:14:30you feel like it's like a mental health

1:14:32issue to to check your likes your

1:14:34followers like how do you deal with that

1:14:36>> are you checking yours

1:14:38>> yeah sometimes but Thankfully, because

1:14:39I'm not managing the page all the time,

1:14:41it's not something that that is on my

1:14:43radar. And even like weird comments that

1:14:46come from people, we're getting roasted

1:14:48on YouTube. Like, that's my dream.

1:14:51>> Oh my god, my YouTube is just a like on

1:14:55Instagram, people are like, "Oh my god,

1:14:57Sarah, we love you. You're so nice." And

1:14:59on YouTube, they're like, "You suck.

1:15:01You're the worst designer ever."

1:15:03>> This is YouTube.

1:15:04>> Oh my god, for 80 crores, I could build

1:15:06a house 30 times better than this. is so

1:15:08ugly. Yuck. What is this design? And I'm

1:15:11just like I I read those comments cuz I

1:15:13really don't go into the comments and I

1:15:15was like, "My god, you're so mean."

1:15:17Like, "Why would you say that?" You

1:15:18know?

1:15:18>> So, YouTube is the harshest god

1:15:21>> feedback, but the most loyal people.

1:15:24>> Oh, really? I I need to find some loyal

1:15:26people.

1:15:26>> They will say your design is

1:15:28because that's what they believe in.

1:15:30They follow you and they stick with you.

1:15:31They will defend you to the end of the

1:15:34universe. So, it's it's actually it's

1:15:36amazing. Whereas Instagram is a bit more

1:15:39surface level. People can move on

1:15:41quickly. You're one of their flings that

1:15:42they're addicted to for a little bit.

1:15:44Then they found someone else. YouTube is

1:15:46all about the long

1:15:47>> commitment. But but someone told me that

1:15:49because we recently started our YouTube

1:15:50journey that on Instagram you consume

1:15:52content unknowingly because you know

1:15:54you're just going through the reels and

1:15:55on YouTube you actually search and then

1:15:58you very you have an intention to

1:16:00consume the content. So I feel like

1:16:01especially with the podcast, if there is

1:16:03somebody just think about your life

1:16:06right now and think about my life. If

1:16:08there's someone who has taken an hour

1:16:10and a half of this life and dedicated it

1:16:14to me

1:16:14>> and then they didn't get any value from

1:16:16it,

1:16:17>> I better take the responsibility for

1:16:18that content and that conversation. And

1:16:21if they have something to say,

1:16:23>> that's feedback. That ain't hate. That

1:16:25ain't trolling. Like that's constructive

1:16:28criticism. And I have to figure out like

1:16:31my mental bandwidth and work on my sort

1:16:33of way to deal with it. But

1:16:35>> I need to understand inherently indebted

1:16:38for them for their time that they've

1:16:40given me.

1:16:41>> So there's no changing that. It's also

1:16:43like Instagram, you're watching one

1:16:44minute, you're like in a bad mood. Okay,

1:16:46I'll just like rat this person out.

1:16:47>> Correct.

1:16:48>> But podcast like Spotify, YouTube, all

1:16:51of that. It's like people are so

1:16:53>> I'm new to all of that still. So yeah,

1:16:55>> I'm here. If you need a new film, I'll

1:16:56I'll push you through it.

1:16:59Perfect. Thank you, Sarah. It was such

1:17:01an insightful conversation about a topic

1:17:03that I actually don't know much about.

1:17:06>> So, um,

1:17:06>> thank you for having me. I really

1:17:08enjoyed our chat. I felt like

1:17:09>> it was great. It was actually like

1:17:10chatting with a friend.

1:17:12>> So much to learn. So much to learn.

1:17:14>> And from you as well. Thank you, Masu.

1:17:16>> Thank you. Thanks so so much. Thank you

1:17:18so much for watching or listening all

1:17:20the way through. I'd love for you to hit

1:17:22that subscribe button. It helps this

1:17:24show reach more incredible people like

1:17:26you. and most importantly get closer to

1:17:29our goal to build an incredible

1:17:31community with the Masumi Navala Show.

1:17:34My goals with this show are audacious

1:17:36and you all are the most important part

1:17:38of this journey. I want to create for

1:17:40you. So tell me what you want to hear.

1:17:42What stories could change your life. I

1:17:45read every single comment and your

1:17:46reflections honestly help us shape where

1:17:48this show goes next. I'll see you in the

1:17:51next one.