BRAIN HEALTH EXPERT: Change Your Brain, Change Your Life | Dr. Daniel Amen X Rich Roll Podcast

0:02the message in our society is wrong

0:04you're not stuck with the brain you have

0:06you can make it better and I can prove

0:09it meet Dr Daniel aan a celebrity

0:12psychiatrist a brain health expert and a

0:1412-time New York Times bestselling

0:16author so if I'm right and I am you need

0:20brain Envy you need to love your brain

0:25the mission is to end mental illness by

0:28creating a solution in brain health

0:31today we discuss all things brain health

0:33dementia Alzheimer's and ADHD and debunk

0:37a few MTH along the way come on we need

0:39to get into the 21st century

0:41psychiatrists are the only medical

0:44doctors who virtually never look at the

0:47organ they treat think about that if you

0:50want to keep your brain healthy or

0:52rescue it you have to prevent or treat

0:56the 11 major risk factors that steal

0:59your

1:05[Music]

1:08mind today's episode is brought to you

1:11by the awesome organizations that make

1:13this show

1:15[Music]

1:18possible well Dr Aon it's a pleasure to

1:20meet you thank you for making your way

1:22on a very rainy day here in Los Angeles

1:24to spend time with me I'm looking

1:26forward to discussing all things brain

1:29health

1:30optimizing brain health Focus memory

1:32cognition preventing things like

1:34cognitive decline dementia

1:37Alzheimer's I'm interested in the

1:39mutability of the brain and brain health

1:42and we're going to talk about your new

1:43book also of course raising mentally

1:45strong kids I'm a parent of four kids

1:47this is very interesting to me um but I

1:49think the two primary motivating things

1:51that that made me most excited about

1:53sitting down with you today is first a

1:57little over a year ago I was diagnosed

1:59with 88 HD which came as quite a

2:01surprise many questions for you about

2:04this it was not something that I thought

2:06would be something I would be associated

2:09with the second is that my mother is

2:12currently in the throws of dementia

2:15obviously a quite devastating situation

2:18as you know all too well and so I want

2:20to learn as much as I can uh about how

2:22to help her how to help my dad as you

2:24also might imagine uh is in a very

2:26challenging situation and of course to

2:28do everything I can to avoid a similar

2:32Peril for myself and as much as that

2:35might sound like I'm trying to make this

2:36about me I'm actually not maybe a little

2:39bit with the ADHD part but when you

2:41consider the statistics on dementia and

2:43Alzheimer's it really is about all of us

2:46isn't it I kind of looked up some

2:49statistics about an hour ago and it's

2:51quite devastating the extent to which

2:55these diseases of dementia are are kind

2:57of taking over and grow growing at

3:00alarming rates in 2023 6.7 million

3:04Americans over 65 have Alzheimer's which

3:07is like one in N 55 million around the

3:10globe 2third of these people are women

3:13which is fascinating and it's very much

3:15on the rise I saw some statistics like

3:18by 2060 the CDC predicts a Sevenfold

3:21increase and globally from 55 million to

3:25139 Million by

3:272050 so this is a problem that is going

3:31to leave very few people

3:33untouched no question I mean if you're

3:35blessed to live to 85 you have a one in

3:39two chance of being diagnosed with

3:42dementia one in two one in two which

3:46means it's either you or your partner

3:49and that's horrifying but what most

3:52people don't know

3:56is you can have an impact on that

4:00and since

4:022005 I wrote a book with my friend Rod

4:05Shankle called preventing

4:07Alzheimer's and I updated it in 2017

4:11with memory rescue and the big idea is

4:14if you want to keep your brain healthy

4:17or rescue it you have to prevent or

4:20treat the 11 major risk factors that

4:23steal your mind and you talked about

4:26your mom having it the pneumonic that

4:28we'll talk about is called called bright

4:30minds and the g in bright Minds is

4:34genetics but we don't think about it

4:37properly oh well I'm overweight because

4:40my family's overweight or I have

4:41hypertension because it runs in my

4:43family or I have diabetes because it

4:45runs in my family or have Alzheimer's

4:47disease or I'm vulnerable to it and

4:48there's nothing I can do about it and

4:50that's a lie genes increase your

4:55vulnerability and they teach you what

4:58you should be doing doing so for example

5:01I have six children three of them are

5:04adopted two of my nieces we adopted

5:06because their parents couldn't stop with

5:09drugs and alcohol and it was a disaster

5:11for these kids and I tell my

5:15nieces if you never drink or do drugs

5:18you're never going to have a problem but

5:21if you do it could be serious you need

5:24to be on an alcohol drug prevention

5:27program every day mm of your life I have

5:31obesity and heart disease in my family

5:33I'm going to be 70 this year I'm not

5:35overweight and I don't have heart

5:36disease because I'm on an obesity heart

5:39disease prevention program every day of

5:43my life so if you have it in your family

5:46as soon as you know you should be

5:49serious about preventing these 11 major

5:53risk factors I want to get into all

5:55those strategies uh but let's talk a

5:57little bit about what's driving this

6:00what is causing this I mean I would

6:01imagine a portion of the spike that

6:05we're seeing this increase in incidents

6:07is related to the fact that people are

6:08living long and baby boomers are aging

6:10up but also I suspect that lifestyle

6:14habits are contributing to this as well

6:17with the increase in type 2 diabetes

6:20obesity hypertension and the like so

6:23what's causing cognitive decline are

6:27seriously unhealthy

6:30lifestyle and undisciplined Minds did

6:34you know depression doubles the risk of

6:37Alzheimer's in women and quadruples it

6:41in men what is the relationship between

6:43depression and dementia so many people

6:46think if you're an older person and you

6:49get depressed it's actually a

6:53precursor to dementia they're both brain

6:56diseases or brain problems if if you

6:59will and it's critical and the m in

7:04bright mind's mental health stuff so I

7:07get so excited about this

7:09because what I came to realize I started

7:12looking at the brain in

7:141991 and we've looked at over

7:18250,000 scans but early on I came to

7:22realize you're not stuck with the brain

7:26you have you can make it better and I

7:28can prove it

7:30and so if I look at your brain and then

7:33you have a car accident your brain's

7:35going to be worse if I look at your

7:37brain and then you go on a drug Bender

7:40your brain is going to be worse if I

7:42look at your brain and then you all of a

7:43sudden you stop sleeping or you go

7:45through a divorce odds are your brain's

7:48going to change in a negative way but I

7:50also did the big NFL study when the NFL

7:53was sort of line they had a problem with

7:55traumatic brain injury in football 80%

7:58of my players got better I could see the

8:01damage but when they go on a

8:03brainhealthy program 80% their brains

8:06looked better anywhere from 2 to 6

8:09months later that's exciting I was a

8:12consultant on the movie concussion and

8:15and I was sort of bummed because the

8:16movie is's sort of a downer um you know

8:18is is that the Will Smith one the Smith

8:21yeah I remember that and it's like

8:23where's the hope and the message on

8:27football Dementia or CTE chronic

8:30traumatic and sell Phil apathy the

8:32message in our society is wrong it's

8:34like oh you have this it's chronic

8:37progressive

8:39untreatable and so players don't come

8:41and get help because they feel hopeless

8:44it's like no get help early probably

8:47while you're still playing so that you

8:49can begin to reverse the damage it's the

8:53big exciting lesson over the last 30

8:56years in Neuroscience neuroplasticity

8:59you're not stuck with the brain you have

9:01you can make it better there's an area

9:03of the brain called the hippocampus why

9:06I collect seahorses it's Greek for

9:08seahorse it's shaped like a

9:10seahorse every day you are making 700

9:14new stem cells in the hippocampus or I

9:17think of them as baby seahorses your

9:20behavior is going to grow them or it's

9:23going to shrink them and so if you're

9:27vulnerable to dementia that's the area

9:29that gets hit early in dementia and you

9:34want to love those seahorses nourish

9:37them feed them teach them rather than

9:41get them drunk or stoned or shrivel them

9:44your main protocol in evaluating

9:47people's brains is this imaging

9:49technology called spec right so can you

9:52describe what that is so can I tell the

9:55priest story just to put it in context

9:58so when I was a Vietnam was still going

10:01on and the government had a draft and I

10:04became an infantry medic where my love

10:06of medicine was born but about a year

10:08into it I didn't like being shot at it

10:11just not for me it's for some people

10:13it's not for me so I got retrained as an

10:15x-ray technician and developed a passion

10:18for medical imaging as our professors

10:20used to say how do you know unless you

10:22look and then 1979 I'm a secondy year

10:26medical student I just get married and

10:29and 2 months later my wife tried to kill

10:32herself horrified and I take her to see

10:35a wonderful psychiatrist and I come to

10:37realize if he helps her it won't just

10:40help her it'll help me it'll help our

10:42children our grandchildren as they would

10:45be shaped by someone who's happier and

10:47more stable so 45 years ago I fell in

10:50love with Psychiatry and I've loved it

10:53everyday since but I fell in love with

10:55the only medical specialty that never

10:57looks at the organ it treats and I knew

11:01it was wrong and I knew it would change

11:04I just had no idea itd be part of it

11:071991 I'm now a psychiatrist for about a

11:10decade and I went to a lecture at my

11:12local hospital on brain spec Imaging

11:15single Photon emission computed

11:18tomography it's a nuclear medicine study

11:20that looks at blood flow and activity it

11:23looks at how your brain works and it

11:26basically shows us three things healthy

11:28AC AC ity too little activity or too

11:33much how is it doing that what is the

11:36process by which that's revealing itself

11:38so again it's a nuclear medicine study

11:40so what we do is we take a radio

11:43pharmaceutical so you take a radio

11:45isotope we take one we use is called

11:48technum and technum has self-esteem

11:51problems it doesn't like being who it is

11:54and it changes shape and when it changes

11:58shape it produces a photon or a little

12:00packet of light that we can measure so

12:03we combine

12:05technici with hmpao a medicine that's

12:08easily taken up by cells in the brain

12:11combine them inject them into your arm

12:14and it's called a first pass extraction

12:17so 70% of it is taken up in your brain

12:21in that first pass so within about 2

12:24minutes and then so it's the hardest

12:26part of the procedure little tiny needle

12:28and to a vein in your arm inject the

12:31medicine it lights up your brain and

12:34then we can measure it have you lay on a

12:36camera table it's not claustrophobic

12:39it's not like an MRI uh people lay on

12:42the camera the camera heads come around

12:45your head in about 15 minutes and we get

12:48about 10 million counts or 10 million

12:52times that little piece of light hits

12:55the crystals in the camera and then we

12:58re constructed and it looks like a brain

13:01and we then can see in your brain which

13:06areas are most active which areas are

13:09healthy which areas are sleepy compare

13:12it to our massive database and my

13:168-year-old grandson can look at a scan

13:18and go healthy or not and it's so

13:22helpful to look and off camera we talked

13:27about controversy so I started looking

13:29at the brain I'm like a little kid so

13:32excited and we never make a diagnosis

13:35from a scan so that's really important

13:37we make a diagnosis like all doctors

13:39with all of the information take

13:42detailed history if you came to see us

13:44you'd fill out about an hour's worth of

13:45paperwork talked to our historian for a

13:47couple of hours I mean we really get to

13:49know you and then we would test your

13:52brain we do a computerized neuros pych

13:54assessment and we would scan your brain

13:58and

13:59when you put that puzzle together it's

14:03so powerful the first patient I ever

14:06scanned so I went from the lecture on

14:08brains speec Imaging given by the head

14:10of the hospital where I worked into sy's

14:14room and I didn't met her I just met her

14:17she tried to kill herself the night

14:18before and as I was talking to her I'm

14:21thinking she has adult ADD impulsive

14:24suicide attempt after a fight with her

14:27husband that she caused I Q of 144 but

14:31never finished College when I go tell me

14:33how you studied she said well I really

14:35never did unless it was the night before

14:36the test I put on a pot of coffee stay

14:38up all night and do the test she an

14:40eight-year-old son that had add so in my

14:43mind I'm feeling pretty confident about

14:45this but when I broach the subject with

14:47her she's like oh adults can't have ADD

14:50and I'm thinking I'm the doctor she was

14:52resistant I said well why don't we look

14:54at your brain and I had been doing a

14:57study called quantitating EEG up to that

15:00point so I knew I needed to do it twice

15:03once it rested once while she did a

15:06concentration task and then after I got

15:09the results a couple of days later I'm

15:11in her hospital room she has a table I

15:15put the scans on the table she had a

15:18healthy brain at rest and when she tried

15:21to concentrate her frontal loes and her

15:24cerebellum which we'll talk about

15:26dropped it was so clear what does that

15:29tell you the harder she tries the worse

15:31it gets it's a classic is what I was

15:35predicting I would see cuz that's what I

15:37saw in quantitative EEG and when I

15:41showed her the scans and explained them

15:43to her she starts to cry and she said

15:46you mean this is not my

15:48fault and I'm like you know people have

15:52ADD it's sort of like people who need

15:54glasses they're not dumb crazy or stupid

15:57you know people wear glasses I wear

15:59glasses to drive we're not dumb crazy or

16:01stupid our eyeballs are shaped funny and

16:03we wear glasses so we can focus people

16:06have ADD aren't dumb crazy or stupid

16:09their frontal loes and cerebellum often

16:12turn off when they should turn on so

16:17medicine or supplements or other

16:19strategies we talk about so you can

16:21focus I could see with the image that

16:23her shame melted away and her compliance

16:28went up

16:29and she took the medicine her

16:31relationships were better she ended up

16:33she was underemployed as many add people

16:36are finished College got a better job

16:39and uh was in touch with her for about

16:4110 years so this was sort of an inciting

16:44incident that allowed you to see the

16:47benefits of using this as a diagnostic

16:50tool this imaging technology yes yeah I

16:54like it when my patients get better so I

16:57went into psychiatry and it was totally

17:00personal for me and I loved it but I was

17:05already getting

17:07criticism from it it's like oh we don't

17:09do this it's not standard it's not what

17:12we do but

17:141992 all day seminar at the American

17:18Psychiatric association brand spect

17:20Imaging and child psychiatry because I'm

17:22also a child psychiatrist I'm so excited

17:25because I'm meeting colleagues who do it

17:28and in 199 93 I teach with that group so

17:32I'm like all in on the technology but it

17:36was 1993 lots of push back from the

17:39American Psychiatric

17:41association because it doesn't fit the

17:45current diagnostic Paradigm MH it's like

17:50stop giving people the diagnosis of

17:52depression depression is a symptom

17:54cluster it shouldn't be a diagnosis sort

17:57of like chest pain is a

18:01symptom it's not a diagnosis right if

18:04you have chest pain it doesn't tell you

18:07what's causing it and it doesn't tell

18:09you what to do for it right right it's

18:12just IND disa to look deeper and use

18:14other diagnostic tools to confirm right

18:16you know what's happening but that was

18:1820 years ago is there a sense that the

18:20medical establishment has changed its

18:22tune because if you look at your

18:23Wikipedia page it's like a it's like a

18:26diet tribe on you know the lack of some

18:28scientific efficacy with respect to this

18:32Imaging techn I don't know what to do

18:33about Wikipedia um

18:372016 January I've published 80 studies

18:40people go he's never published his work

18:42it's like dude do you read discovered

18:44magazine listed our research as one of

18:46the top 100 stories in science for 2015

18:50I was pretty excited about that 2021 the

18:53Canadian Association of nuclear

18:55medicine wrote procedure guidelines on

18:58spe basically as if I wrote them and

19:02five of the 10 authors had been my

19:05students at some point had 10,000

19:09medical and mental health professionals

19:10referred to our 11 clinics and

19:14250,000 scans that You' reviewed so

19:17that's people from 155 it's a massive

19:20data set what are some of the general

19:22trends that you see like what can you

19:24extract from that giant data set that

19:26speaks to bra brain health the

19:29mutability of brain health and the types

19:32of conditions that you see most

19:34consistently in the patients that end up

19:36in your clinics well can I can I stay

19:37with the controversy just a little bit

19:39longer because it really irritates me

19:44the people criticize me say oh he's only

19:47do it for money oh you can't see these

19:50things in the scans even though they're

19:51not experts but what's the

19:54alternative I mean i' said it earlier

19:56psychiatrists are the only medical

19:59doctors who virtually never look at the

20:02organ they treat think about that and

20:05obviously if you have a brain

20:06dysfunction that's going to dictate a

20:10you know mental health outcome well if

20:13we agree that your brain controls

20:16everything you do right how you think

20:18how you feel how you act how you get

20:20along with other

20:22people and when it works right you tend

20:25to work right and when it's troubled

20:27you're more likely to have trouble in

20:29your life if your brain the moment by

20:32moment function of your brain creates

20:35your

20:36mind then why wouldn't you assess the

20:42organ that you're you're working on and

20:46so just a little more history 1993 I

20:49start to get anxious because I have two

20:52big flaws I've worked on them a lot but

20:56I like people to like me

20:59and you can't change a medical specialty

21:02if you're anxious about what people

21:05think of you

21:07and I hate

21:09conflict I'm a middle child you and I

21:11both I hate conflict and I like people

21:13to like me and all that changed in 1995

21:17so I spent from 1993 to

21:201995 just anxious because I knew I had

21:24to do this right there's not a choice

21:26once you look you can't UNL

21:30and 1995 I get a call late one night

21:33from my sister-in-law Sherry who told me

21:36my nine-year-old nephew Andrew had

21:38attacked a little girl on the baseball

21:40field for no particular reason and I'm

21:43like what and she said Danny he's

21:47different he's mean he doesn't smile

21:49anymore I went into his room today and

21:52found two pictures he had drawn one of

21:54them he was hanging from a tree the

21:57other picture he was was shooting other

21:59children so if you think about it he's

22:01Coline or Sandy Hook or Parkland Florida

22:05waiting to happen and I'm like I want to

22:07see him tomorrow and they lived eight

22:09hours from me so they brought him to me

22:11I'm like buddy what's going on and he's

22:14like Uncle Danny I'm just mad all the

22:16time like is anybody hurting you no is

22:19anybody teasing you no is anybody

22:21touching you in places that shouldn't be

22:23touching you no and 9 99 child

22:29psychiatrists out of a thousand would

22:31put him on medicine and therapy and

22:35because of my experience I already

22:36scanned a thousand people at that point

22:38I'm like he's got a left temporal Lo

22:40problem and so I'm like I held his hand

22:44while he held his teddy bear and got

22:46scanned and he was missing the function

22:49of his left temporal Lo I'd never seen

22:51it I've seen it aund times since then

22:54turned out he had a cyst the size of a

22:56golf ball occupied the space of his left

22:59temporal lobe and I told his

23:00pediatrician I said you find somebody to

23:02take it out cuz he wasn't in my

23:04neighborhood and he talked to three

23:06neurologists all of them said they

23:07wouldn't touch the cyst until he had

23:10real symptoms at which point I lost my

23:13mind and I start screaming at the

23:15pediatrician of a homicidal suicidal

23:18child who attacks people for no reason

23:21what do you mean real symptoms and he

23:23got anxious and he said I think they

23:25mean like seizures or he loses

23:26Consciousness I'm like ser ious and in

23:29my head I'm like neurologist neurologist

23:32neurosurgeons neurosurgeons will do

23:34stuff so I called UCLA talked to the

23:37head of the Pediatric nurse surgery

23:39Department J loera and he said Dr Ammon

23:43when these cysts are symptomatic we

23:45drain them he's obviously symptomatic

23:48and after the surgery I got two calls

23:50one from my sister-in-law who said the

23:52surgery went really well and when Andrew

23:54woke up he smiled at her she said

23:59Danny he's not smiled for a year and

24:04then I got a call from Dr Lazer who said

24:06oh my God Dr Ammon that cyst was so

24:09aggressive that put so much pressure on

24:12Andrew's brain that thin the bone over

24:15his left temporal LOE so his skull had

24:18been thinned he said if he would have

24:20been hit in the head with the basketball

24:21would have killed him instantly either

24:24way would have been dead in six months

24:26that's an amazing story what's so

24:28interesting is the idea that our

24:32personalities are not static that

24:36something a Miss with the brain could

24:38completely change a person's outlook on

24:41life how they show up in the world the

24:43thoughts that they're entertaining and

24:45with in the case of that example like a

24:47simple proced not a simple procedure but

24:49a a procedure could completely change

24:53that good or bad right it can go way but

24:57after

24:59Andrew and you know it's now 30 years

25:02later 29 years later Andrew's married

25:06has two children has his own business I

25:09mean he's normal and it was that moment

25:14I lost my anxiety and my need for you to

25:17like me that's When The War Began to try

25:21to

25:22change Psychiatry to become let's like

25:25come on we need to get into the 21st

25:27century and

25:291979 when I told my dad I wanted to be a

25:31psychiatrist he asked me why I didn't

25:33want to be a real doctor yeah he wasn't

25:34happy about it why I wanted to be a nut

25:36doctor and hang out with nuts all day

25:39long but that he just was just

25:42reflecting what society believes that

25:46you're weak if you have a mental health

25:48problems you're bad if you have uh

25:51behavioral problem and the images

25:55clearly taught me free will is not zero

25:58or 100 that Free Will is gray and I

26:01ended up testifying in some death

26:03penalty cases and um so if I'm right and

26:07I am that means 40,000 psychiatrists and

26:12hundreds of thousands family practice

26:15doctors OBGYN internist that they're

26:18practicing witchcraft by making

26:22diagnosis based on symptom clusters with

26:25no biological data last year 3 37

26:29million prescriptions for

26:31anti-depressants that's insane what's

26:34happening in our society is just tragic

26:38and we need a different way and the

26:40mission I have in my life is crazy but

26:44the mission is to end mental illness by

26:48creating a revolution in brain health

26:51which is why I'm so excited about Bring

26:53It's a bold statement it's a great

26:55Mission I love it um I think ancar what

26:58you just shared is there's a lot of

27:00misnomers when it comes to mental health

27:02like language is important and the words

27:04that we associate with some of the

27:06things that that people experience are

27:08perhaps not in the best interest of

27:11healing and and Welfare can you talk a

27:14little bit about that like the idea of

27:15just talking about disease in general

27:18with respect to mental health so of the

27:21337 million prescriptions written for

27:24anti-depressants virtually no one was

27:26talked to about their diet

27:29about their sleep habits about if they

27:32turn on the news first thing in the

27:35morning I love the idea of getting my

27:38patients excited about making their

27:41brains better rather than you have

27:44borderline personality disorder and

27:48you're probably not going to get better

27:49but here are the things to do or you're

27:51by poar you're going to need to take

27:53this medication for the rest of your

27:56life um in Justin Bieber's docu series

28:00seasons and he came to me diagnosed with

28:04bipolar disorder on lithium I scanned

28:07him that's not what he had but can you

28:09imagine being 23 and people saying you

28:15have a mental illness you're always

28:16going to have this mental illness you

28:18need to be on this medicine for the rest

28:20of your life that's insane with no

28:25biological data or one of my favorite

28:28stories is Adriana who I just dearly L

28:32normal 16-year-old beautiful goes to

28:35euse they think it's a magic moment when

28:38they're surrounded by six deer 10 days

28:41later she becomes aggressive she starts

28:44to hallucinate she's paranoid she's

28:46hospitalized given a diagnosis of

28:49schizophrenia and after three

28:52hospitalizations multiple medications

28:54the family spent

28:56$100,000 Adrian is a

28:58she comes to our Clinic she's one of our

29:01doctors her brain's on fire why is her

29:03brain on fire U you know we see

29:06inflammation turned out she had Lyme

29:08disease on an

29:11antibiotic within a year she's normal

29:13she graduated from Pepperdine she's got

29:16a master's degree from the University of

29:18London she's

29:21normal I think infectious disease and

29:24talk about covid because it's part of it

29:26is a major C of psychiatric problems and

29:30nobody knows about it because people

29:31aren't looking at the brain and so you

29:35ask me you know what sort of the big

29:36lessons I've learned mild traumatic

29:38brain injuries a major cause of

29:40psychiatric illness and nobody knows it

29:42because they don't walk one of my

29:45friends was mountain biking and had an

29:50accident he fell broke his helmet didn't

29:54lose

29:55Consciousness never had an anxiety

29:58disorder panic attack depression never

30:00in his whole life he's in his 50s all of

30:02a sudden he's having panic attacks

30:04doctor put him on Prozac and Xanax very

30:08common combination and for the wrong

30:10brain it's big trouble he's he became

30:13suicidal he saw me on TV and I came to

30:17see him had a dent in the left front

30:20side of his brain his left frontal lobe

30:22his left temporal lobe I'm like do I

30:25have a brain injury no are you sure what

30:29I found is you got to ask people

30:31multiple times do you ever have a brain

30:33when I see it on the scan I'll generally

30:35find it ever fall out of a tree off a

30:38fence dive into a shallow pool car

30:41accident con cussion plane Sports he's

30:43like oh my God two weeks before I had my

30:45first panic attack I had a mountain

30:47biking accident and I broke the helmet I

30:50didn't think anything of it because I

30:51didn't lose Consciousness Consciousness

30:54is a brain stem phenomenon

30:58so you can really do damage to your

31:01brain and not lose Consciousness because

31:03you don't damage your brain St yeah yeah

31:07Phineas Gage the famous case in

31:10Neurosurgical history was a railroad

31:14construction worker in 1848 and his job

31:17was in explosions he'd explode out the

31:19rock so they could lay the railroad

31:21tracks and one day there was an accident

31:24that happened his 3ot tamping iron he

31:27was tamping

31:28down the fuse and sand and gunpowder and

31:32he dropped the rod caused a spark then

31:35an explosion it went through a missile

31:37underneath his left cheekbone took out

31:41the left front side of his brain landed

31:4330 yards away and he looked to his

31:45friend and said did you see that and

31:48then he looked to another friend did you

31:50see that he didn't lose Consciousness

31:53but obviously it damaged his brain

31:55changed his personality

31:58was conscientious and a man of good

32:00character before that and then he got

32:04fired cuz he couldn't stop swearing and

32:06he didn't show up and he had these crazy

32:08ideas and was a stage coach driver and

32:10then moved to where all these people

32:12move which is

32:16California every athlete I know is going

32:18to tell you that having the right gear

32:20is key to Performance if what you're

32:24wearing is poorly crafted it's just

32:25going to put distance between you and

32:28those goals you've set you owe it to

32:30yourself to invest in the best and the

32:32best is on I'm obsessed with the cloud

32:35Ultra great on the trails and I just got

32:38the new NextGen Cloud Stratus 3 for the

32:40road I'm loving those but an also has

32:43this incredible line of lightweight high

32:45performance apparel that it's just

32:47beyond anything I've previously dawned

32:50it's like this second to none Second

32:52Skin I love to rock the sweat wicking

32:54Ultra te and the ultra shorts which have

32:57this pocket right at the base of the

32:59spine that perfectly anchors your phone

33:01no jiggle I'm just so proud to partner

33:03with an and I love their vision for the

33:06future where their gear is engineered

33:09for

33:10circularity so check out their amazing

33:12lineup of super comfortable sleek and

33:15durable pieces for yourself at

33:21on.com in the case of somebody who

33:23suffered a a CTE some kind of brain

33:26injury or in the case of someone like

33:28Justin Bieber who's being diagnosed with

33:31bipolar disorder I mean not for nothing

33:34like how about just the fact that he's

33:36so young and so famous and so wealthy

33:39like how do you not have some kind of

33:41dysfunction being so young with a young

33:43brain trying to navigate that type of

33:46world but I guess yeah they almost

33:47killed that boy he was pretty out of

33:50control for a while and he seems to be

33:52great now that's all I know I don't know

33:54him personally and if you read his mom's

33:57book I mean public knowledge he grew up

34:00with a lot of uncertainty and Trauma and

34:04anxiety

34:06her parents didn't want her to have

34:08Justin and she ended up going in the

34:11Salvation Army home from wedm mothers oh

34:15wow there's a lot so there's some

34:17childhood trauma stuff there childhood

34:19trauma and then you think early Fame

34:23which is one of the worst things for

34:26brain because you wear wear out your

34:28pleasure centers in the brain all of

34:32that excitement and then unlimited money

34:36with very poor Supervision in a brain

34:39that doesn't finish developing until 25

34:42I mean just see sort of yeah it's a

34:45recipe for kind of dysfunction and you

34:47know one of my other sort of patients I

34:50dearly love Miley Cyrus got the Grammy

34:53this year for song of the

34:55year makes me emotional because the

34:57song's really about love and loving

35:00yourself but it was a show for a

35:03long time she's been on a journey she

35:06she's been on a journey I'm just so

35:08proud of her because she's in charge of

35:12her life rather than fame's in charge or

35:16drugs are in charge or other people are

35:20in charge I mean you know I work really

35:22hard with my patients for them to become

35:24good

35:24CEOs of their life but you have to take

35:27care of the Executive Center in your

35:30life which is your prefrontal cortex

35:32largest in humans and any other animal

35:35by far if you damage it with head trauma

35:38drugs alcohol bad food not sleeping

35:41social media it's not a good

35:44prescription what are some of the

35:46Topline most important lifestyle

35:48protocols or interventions that you

35:51recommend when your patients come

35:53through and you see something lighting

35:55up or not lighting up in these scans and

35:58and realize that there's work that can

36:00be done to course correct so it depends

36:04on your brain I mean you know there are

36:06things everybody should do like love

36:09your brain and I horrified myself I

36:12don't know I guess about 10 years ago

36:13when I went brain health is three things

36:16brain Envy got to care about it nobody

36:19cares about their brain why because you

36:22can't see it don't see it you can see

36:24the wrinkles in your skin or the fat

36:26around your belly and can do something

36:28when you're unhappy with it I also think

36:30we're just not taught to care for it

36:32it's not something that we think about

36:35we know we should eat better and all the

36:37like and we know we can learn things

36:38with our brain but there isn't a broad

36:41sense that we can improve our brain

36:44health through certain lifestyle choices

36:47that we're making immediately your

36:49brain's worse if you're drinking alcohol

36:53or if you're smoking pot immediately

36:56your brain's worse it if you don't

36:59prioritize sleep if you eat crappy food

37:02you know going back to these 11 major

37:04risk factors but it's three things brain

37:07Envy so when I started 1991 I scanned

37:11everybody I knew I'm like so excited and

37:14I scanned my mom she was 60 she had a

37:18beautiful brain which really reflected

37:22her life she has seven children 54

37:26grandchildren great grandchildren she

37:28knows everybody still 92 she knows

37:31everybody's name she knows what's going

37:34on in their lives and she's just someone

37:39that she brings people to her I scanned

37:42myself a week later and it wasn't nearly

37:45as good as my 60-year-old mother and

37:48that just irritated me but I played

37:51football in high school I had menitis

37:53twice as a young Soldier bad for the

37:55brain and I had bad habits you know I've

37:58never drank I never

38:00smoked but I wasn't sleeping I thought I

38:02was special like I could get by on four

38:05hours of sleep and I'm not special I'm

38:07stupid because sleep is critical I was

38:10overweight I was I didn't care I'm a

38:12double board certified psychiatrist top

38:15Neuroscience student in medical school

38:16and I don't care about my own brain I

38:18saw it and I cared I have Envy I want my

38:22mom's brain and so I always say Freud

38:24was wrong penis envy is not the cause

38:27anybody's problem you need brain Envy

38:30you need to love your brain and that's

38:34where brain heal starts it's like oh I

38:37have this organ that creates me let me

38:42love it and then avoid things that hurt

38:44it just got to know the list and do

38:47things that help it and again you just

38:49have to know the list and if we do the

38:51bright Minds it says what to avoid and

38:53what to do MH yeah those 11 sort of

38:56principles right that are buil built

38:57into that acronym yeah and they're

39:00everywhere in my head like be for

39:02examples for blood flow low blood flow

39:05is the number one brain Imaging

39:07predictor of Alzheimer's disease so if

39:10you have it in your family and I scan

39:12you we're going to look I mean Spa is a

39:16study that looks at blood flow and

39:19mitochondrial activity 49% of the Tracer

39:22is taken up in the mitochondria so we're

39:25going to look at blood flow and

39:28energy and if it's low we're going to go

39:33why you know head traumas drugs alcohol

39:37caffeine nicotine not sleeping having

39:40high blood pressure being overweight and

39:43we're going to Target the reasons why

39:46it's

39:47low and then we're going to do exercise

39:51increases blood flow I love exercise

39:54Ginko is one of my favorite supplements

39:57because the Best Brands I ever see have

39:59taken genko oregano cayenne pepper

40:04beets increase blood flow so know your

40:08risk factor and then know what to do and

40:10the trick with exercise is coordination

40:15exercises people who play Rocket Sports

40:17live longer than everybody else this is

40:21a replicated study on like 990,000

40:24people because what coordination does is

40:28it activates your

40:30cerebellum little brain 10% of the

40:33brain's volume in the back it's half the

40:36brain's neurons and if you activate that

40:39it turns on the rest of your brain so

40:43I'm a huge fan of table tennis and

40:46pickle ball and Tennis it's bad news for

40:49me I'm very athletic but when it comes

40:52to anything involving I hand

40:54coordination I'm terrible at it and so

40:56I've avoided it my whole life but that's

40:58good news for you if you can get over

40:59yourself there's more more to be gained

41:01right yeah get a really good pingpong

41:04coach and don't judge yourself just go

41:08and

41:09learn to be good and don't have to beat

41:12people if you spend a half an hour twice

41:16a week it'll have a major impact on your

41:19ability to think because you got to get

41:22your eyes hands and feet all working

41:24together while you think about the spin

41:26on the I think of it as aerobic chess I

41:29have this thing which I think might be

41:32fairly common which is this idea that

41:36perhaps I'm past the point of no return

41:39so let me explain I was a competitive

41:42swimmer growing up so between the ages

41:45of like 14 and

41:4721 I was training you know four to five

41:51hours a day waking up at 4:30 in the

41:53morning and walking around overtrained

41:55like a zombie

41:57so I wasn't getting good sleep I never

41:59felt rested I always felt fatigued

42:02during that period of time alcohol

42:05became quite the thing around age 18 and

42:09from 18 to 31 a progression into

42:12alcoholism and during that period of

42:14time you know maybe getting one good

42:16night of sleep while the rest of the

42:19nights were blackouts or recovering from

42:23blackouts I get sober at 31 but from 31

42:26to 40 I transfer a lot of that addictive

42:30energy into my lifestyle choices so I

42:32was basically

42:34sedentary and subsisting on hot dogs

42:39french fries Pizza McDonald's Jack in

42:43the Box while not exercising at around

42:4640 I have a come to Jesus moment I Chang

42:49My Lifestyle habits and and many things

42:52about my life and I'm a much healthier

42:54person now I'm eat a plant-based diet

42:56I'm very fit and active I'm engaged

43:00mentally through the process of doing

43:02this podcast and other things that I do

43:04uh and my life is good but I can't shake

43:06this sense that I have done so much

43:09damage over the course of my lifetime

43:13that no matter how many good things I do

43:15now that at some point I'm not going to

43:18be able to overcome that damage it's

43:20going to catch up to me and so what's

43:23the point in doubling down and really

43:26investing in in all of the things that

43:28you're saying and I I I think on some

43:29level that might be common people are

43:31thinking well I've treated myself

43:33terribly I think that song has been sung

43:36so you know mutability is your whole

43:38thing like we can't but is there a

43:42period at which I mean I would suspect

43:45it's more difficult than it is for

43:46others but what would you tell someone

43:49like myself or someone who's of a

43:52similar mindset or a similar type past

43:55history well one we should look right

43:58how do you know unless you look and so

44:00many people go oh no I don't want to

44:02know yeah I'm scared I'm a little I'm a

44:04little scared if you knew a train was

44:06going to hit you wouldn't you at least

44:08try to get out of the way as long as

44:11there was a possibility to get out of

44:12the way of course if I couldn't get out

44:13of the way just let it hit me and I'm

44:15none the wiser so I do a show actually I

44:18want you to be on it scan my brain on

44:20YouTube and Instagram and one of my

44:24favorite guys try gloss 2002 World

44:28Series MVP played third base for the

44:30Angels love him

44:32dearly drinking way too much for

44:37concussions depressed suicidal I mean he

44:40was in a dark place didn't think there

44:42was any hope and I got him to do my show

44:45I don't know how that happened his brain

44:47was awful like

44:50awful but he did what I asked him to do

44:53and his wife uh an who I dearly love she

44:57was a good partner he stopped drinking

45:01he ate better exercised took the

45:04supplements lost 15 lbs in two months

45:08and I'm like let's look again cuz I

45:10could just tell he was better spray

45:13significantly better in a two month

45:15period two months and then I scanned him

45:1716 months later how old is he

45:2047 now and you know there were ups and

45:23downs right when you're an alcoholic it

45:25does you just don't stop I mean some

45:27people do but you know there was some

45:30bumps for us but you know we're in the

45:34fight together and 16 months later his

45:38brain is so good and I know five years

45:42from now if he continues on and he has

45:45brain Envy his brain's going to be

45:47freaking normal you have a

45:50choice but if you don't

45:53know if you don't look you don't know

45:56and why would you ever be in that

45:58position I want to know which is why you

46:02know every couple years I'll get a whole

46:03body scan because if trouble's coming I

46:07want to get it early I don't want to

46:10wait until

46:13late so many of the lifestyle illnesses

46:17that we're seeing now are tracked to

46:19chronic inflammation so what are some of

46:22the things that we can do to ameliorate

46:24that that have implications in terms of

46:27brain health so in bright Minds the

46:29first eye is inflammation and some

46:33surprising things it's like

46:3698% of us have low levels of omega-3

46:39fatty acids if you're not taking an

46:41omega-3 supplement or focused on eating

46:45low mercury High omega-3 fish that's a

46:49problem because low omega-3 increases

46:54inflammation if you're not bit obsessed

46:57with your gums and your teeth if you

47:00have gum disease you more likely to have

47:02brain disease and heart disease and like

47:05I didn't really just to drill down on

47:06that a little bit it's always amazing to

47:08me that that doesn't get enough

47:11bandwidth in terms of our overall health

47:14because I know I've had peronal disease

47:17and gum problems my whole life and I was

47:20educated early about the implications of

47:23not treating that well because that

47:26tends to lead to

47:27artherosclerotic issues and brain health

47:30obviously it's a circulatory situation

47:33it has to have implications in terms of

47:35brain health absolutely because your

47:37brain is 2% of your body's weight but

47:40uses 20% of the blood flow in your body

47:4420% of the oxygen in your body goes to

47:49your brain and if you have gum disease

47:52infections in your gums perodontal

47:55issues abscess and the like how does

47:58that translate into circulatory issues

48:01like what is you have a higher risk of

48:03Alzheimer's disease so it increases

48:08inflammation which you know many people

48:11think is the mother of all illness I

48:14don't know about that but I don't want

48:17to have inflammation and for a long time

48:19I didn't really care about my own gums

48:22until study after study gum disease

48:26heart disease thumb disease brain

48:28disease like no got to take care of like

48:31so become a flossing fool in terms of

48:34blood work what should people be paying

48:36attention to I mean you mentioned

48:38Omega-3s but if someone's doing a blood

48:40panel and they get the results what are

48:42some things that would jump out to you

48:45so if we look at some of the important

48:47numbers for bright Minds like blood

48:49pressure would be for blood flow

48:52retirement and aging you don't want high

48:54iron levels iron iron accelerates aging

49:00you you don't want low iron because

49:01that'll make you not sleep and be

49:03anxious and I tend to accumulate iron so

49:07I go donate blood twice a year and that

49:09seems to help good for other people good

49:11for me for inflammation you want to know

49:14your C-reactive protein for genetics you

49:17probably should know your apoe4 Gene

49:20type I'm a 2 three is that the gene

49:23that's connected

49:25Tois Earth situation where he double or

49:30whatever yeah yeah yeah he's a

49:33e44 which means he has a tenfold risk

49:37but a tenfold risk means about

49:4025% and so it just means be serious and

49:44exercise the kind of exercise you're

49:46doing decreases the risk if you have one

49:50or two E4 genes for head traumas is the

49:54number of head traumas you have toxins

49:56how's your liver function so liver

49:59function tests mental health it's your

50:01Ace score adverse childhood experiences

50:050 to 10 how many do you have my wife

50:09wrote a book called The Relentless

50:10courage of a scared child she's an eight

50:13out of 10 my nieces who I adopted are

50:15both nines I mean if you have four or

50:19more it increases your risk of seven of

50:22the top 10 leading causes of death if

50:24you have six or more you die 20 years

50:27early now my nieces and my wife aren't

50:30dying 20 years early because there are

50:32things you can do to extract the past

50:36trauma which is super important the

50:39second eye is immunity and infection so

50:42know your vitamin D level and get it

50:46above 40 people who are above 40 have

50:50half the risk of cancer of those who are

50:53under 20 and when I first tested mine

50:56when I sort of figured this out 20 years

50:58ago I was 17 I'm like how am I 17 cuz I

51:03exercise but I exercise at night because

51:05I'm working during the day and I realize

51:09I need more sun and I need to supplement

51:12to have a healthy level not too much but

51:15a healthy level and then n is neuro

51:18hormones get them tested every year

51:20we're living in a society where low

51:24testosterone levels are r rampant in

51:28young males and I've just never seen

51:30anything quite like it what is

51:32contributing to that head trauma and

51:35toxins are more young males having head

51:38trauma than they used to be well with

51:41football and soccer and skateboarding

51:45maybe the other thing is toxins on their

51:49body the products you put on their body

51:52so I have all my patients download the

51:53app think dirty and scan all of your

51:56personal products to see ewg thing like

51:59it it's it's similar to it so for

52:02example I used to shave with barbasol 50

52:05years and on a scale of zero is live

52:08long 10 is kill you early it's a nine

52:11and now I shave with something called

52:13kiss my face which is a two it's insane

52:16the extent to

52:18which uh there are so many chemicals in

52:21our

52:22everyday products that we're unaware of

52:24and the lack of regulation on this I've

52:27had plenty of guests in the past come on

52:29to talk about Ken Cook from ewg my

52:32friend Darren oen wrote a book called

52:33fatal conveniences and you read it it's

52:36very solution oriented but it's quite an

52:38eyeopener to realize so disturbing the

52:41amount of uh toxicity in our personal

52:44care products and things that we sort of

52:46take for granted and assume are safe and

52:48what happened during covid it's all of a

52:51sudden these toxic hand sanitizers that

52:55have parabens and and fragrance that are

52:58just bad for you people are lathering

53:02themselves their children with this

53:05stuff which is why I'm a fan of Earth

53:08friendly products because they make

53:09these cleaning products that I have no

53:12interest in them except I love them you

53:14need to be thoughtful you know what you

53:17clean your clothes with what deodorant

53:20you use what sunscreen you use read the

53:25label and like oh well I can't

53:27understand it then you need to like

53:30understand or get ewg or think dirty and

53:34just scan it and it'll tell you good for

53:37your brain and body or bad for it and

53:41people go oh but that's so expensive I'm

53:44like no being sick is expensive this is

53:47just about love why would you put

53:50something on your body or your child's

53:52body that is poison get your hormon

53:56checked and then your hemoglobin A1c

54:00obviously and your BMI they're very

54:03important numbers to know 72% of

54:07Americans are overweight 42% are obese

54:11it's the biggest brain drain in the

54:12history of the world I published three

54:15studies that say as your weight goes up

54:18the size and function of your brain goes

54:21down and I learned that

54:24connection 2009 Cyrus rajie from the

54:27University of Pittsburgh published MRI

54:29study that if you're overweight you have

54:344% less volume in your brain and your

54:37brain looks eight years older than

54:40healthy people if you're obese you have

54:438% less volume in your brain and your

54:47brain looks 16 years older and I have a

54:51normal database of scans but we never I

54:54mean we ask them about weight but we

54:55never use that as an exclusion criteria

54:58healthy weight versus overweight or

55:00obese significantly less blood flow then

55:03I did an NFL stady healthy weight NFL

55:07players versus overweight NFL players

55:10love frontal L function and I'm like oh

55:13no and can you talk about it without

55:16somebody being mad at you so I've had

55:18lots of people mad at me but it's just

55:20science right I'm just making the

55:23connection if you are overweight of

55:26these 11 risk factors you have seven of

55:29them wow because it decreases blood flow

55:32promotes aging increases inflammation

55:36changes healthy testosterone into

55:38unhealthy cancer promoting forms of

55:41estrogen and you got to get serious now

55:44being underweight is bad for your brain

55:47being overweight is bad for your brain

55:50you mentioned the importance of loving

55:51your brain and I would

55:54imagine showing your patient

55:57these images these scans helps to create

56:00that connection because you see what's

56:03actually happening and perhaps that

56:06opens the door to loving your brain a

56:08little bit more I think a lot about what

56:11the difference is between people who are

56:13able to absorb

56:15information and then make a change in

56:17their life versus people who absorb the

56:20same information and either choose not

56:22to or struggle to make that change or

56:25struggle to make that change last or

56:29sustain because if you have low

56:32self-esteem if you are somebody who is

56:35of a negative disposition or just see

56:38the world through the lens of lack as

56:40opposed to opportunity those people I

56:44would suspect are more difficult cases

56:46in terms of trying to get them excited

56:50about the possibility if you don't love

56:53yourself it's pretty hard to in invest

56:56in get that person to invest in

56:59healthier lifestyle habits it's

57:01absolutely so there is a it's a mental

57:03health thing as much as it is a rational

57:05logical information thing no question

57:10and there are many people who had Early

57:15Childhood trauma for example who

57:19developed real rage about what happened

57:23but then guilt about the rage because I

57:26still have to be with these people they

57:27still house me and feed me and so it

57:30goes

57:32unconscious they start attacking

57:35themselves and I'm

57:38bad it's hard for me if I believe at my

57:41core I'm

57:43bad to do the right things out of love

57:47cuz you don't love yourself MH and that

57:52is a brain problem because trauma gets

57:55stuck in your brain but it's also a

57:58psychological problem I think of all my

58:00patients in four big circles it's what's

58:02the biology which is brain health why we

58:04got to look at your brain and those

58:06important numbers we talked

58:08about how's your psychological Health

58:12right it's it's your mind what's the

58:13quality of your thoughts the level of

58:16the trauma you have uh what's the

58:19chatter in your head there's also a

58:22Social Circle what's going on in your

58:24life now with your kids with your spouts

58:26with work and there's a spiritual Circle

58:29so why that do you care you know what is

58:32your deepest sense of meaning and

58:34purpose and so in my mind when I

58:36evaluate my patients all four circles

58:39all the time I want to have an exercise

58:42called the onepage miracle I want you to

58:44know what do you want relationships work

58:48money physical emotional spiritual what

58:51do you want let's define it so you can

58:53look at it on a regular basis are you're

58:56noticing what you like about the other

58:58people in your life more than what you

59:00don't and whenever you feel sad mad

59:02nervous or out of control write down

59:04what you're thinking and I have this

59:06great process thinking in honest

59:10accurate ways so I'm not a huge fan of

59:13positive thinking I'm a fan of accurate

59:16thinking with a positive spin that'd be

59:19worth chatting about and then I'm going

59:21get your brain healthy so if I give you

59:23these strategies and you don't do it

59:27I want to bond with you so you come back

59:29and trust me and then I want to work on

59:32you know perhaps the past trauma I love

59:34a therapy called the MDR specific

59:37psychological treatment for trauma

59:39stands for eye movement desensitization

59:43and reprocessing and I love another one

59:45called istdp intensive short-term

59:48dynamic therapy and the foundation of

59:52that therapy is people really struggling

59:55they like won't do the things they could

59:58do to be healthy it's attachment

1:00:02problems that led to rage and then guilt

1:00:05about the rage and self attack it's like

1:00:09they're living that I did something

1:00:12wrong even though everybody's done

1:00:16things wrong and you know most people

1:00:18forgive themselves they're living with

1:00:21this self attack and that takes

1:00:24sometimes intense therapy but doesn't

1:00:26have to be long that's why they call it

1:00:28intensive short-term Dynamic

1:00:30Psychotherapy and you've had success

1:00:31with that great success with that yes

1:00:33yeah it's so interesting I mean because

1:00:34you can show that person as not as many

1:00:37scans as you want but until you untie

1:00:39that knot and get to the root of what's

1:00:41driving that you know disposition that's

1:00:44preventing them from making changes it

1:00:46it's not going to matter I've never seen

1:00:48anything as powerful as showing somebody

1:00:50their brain like with addiction when I

1:00:53first started ordering scans I was the

1:00:55director of dual diagnosis unit so a

1:00:57psychiatric hospital unit that takes

1:00:59care of substance abusers their brains

1:01:01were so bad and I was like here's a

1:01:05healthy brain here's your brain your

1:01:07brain controls everything you do which

1:01:09brain do you want I mean I think anybody

1:01:12with an addiction should get their brain

1:01:13scanned and I came up with I wrote a

1:01:16book with David Smith called unchain

1:01:20your brain breaking the addictions that

1:01:21steal your life and like giving

1:01:24everybody proacs and say

1:01:26right there many different ways to get

1:01:28depressed give everybody a 12-step

1:01:31programs a bit insane because they're

1:01:33impulsive addicts they're compulsive

1:01:35addicts they're impulsive compulsive

1:01:38addicts they're sad addicts or head

1:01:40trauma addicts it's like no the type you

1:01:43had and if somebody diagnosed you with

1:01:45ADD which we will talk about well that's

1:01:48our impulsive addicts group it's like

1:01:51you want to do the right things but you

1:01:52just don't have enough of a break to

1:01:56stop and that could go with low frontal

1:02:00lobe activity or compulsive addicts they

1:02:04just get the same thought in their head

1:02:06over and over again and sometimes

1:02:07clinically it's hard to tell the

1:02:09difference because they go I'm impulsive

1:02:12but what they really mean is they're

1:02:13compulsive they get a thought the

1:02:16impulsive person gets a thought and does

1:02:18it without thinking the compulsive

1:02:21person gets thought over and over again

1:02:23and has to do it and so one is a

1:02:26dopamine intervention the other is a

1:02:28serotonin

1:02:30intervention and how would you know

1:02:32unless you really looked

1:02:35interesting hey everybody today's

1:02:37episode is brought to you by seed gut

1:02:40health I talk about it all the time on

1:02:42the podcast you know it's important if

1:02:44you've even listened to a few of my

1:02:45podcasts I think I've maybe devoted I

1:02:47don't know a dozen two dozen episodes to

1:02:49the microbiome you got to take care of

1:02:51your gut health if you want to have

1:02:53Optimal Health how do you do that well

1:02:55you're nutrition your lifestyle habits

1:02:57sleep all of these things play into that

1:03:00but it's also important to find a really

1:03:01good Prebiotic and probiotic how do you

1:03:04do that well there's a lot of nonsense

1:03:07out there so you got to follow the

1:03:08science and the best evidence-based

1:03:11product that I found out there is seeds

1:03:13ds01 daily symbiotic I've been taking it

1:03:16for I don't know over 3 years at this

1:03:18point every single day there's just a

1:03:20tremendous amount of science behind this

1:03:22product I urge you to check it out and

1:03:24right now it's a great time to do that

1:03:25because you can get 25% off your first

1:03:27month of seeds ds01 daily symbiotic hit

1:03:31the link in the description below to

1:03:33visit seed.com roll and use code Rich

1:03:38roll2 get on

1:03:40[Music]

1:03:42it a little over a year ago I did a

1:03:46week-long

1:03:48intensive therapeutic process that was

1:03:51intended to be trauma oriented childhood

1:03:54trauma oriented and it was was it was

1:03:56incredible and over the course of that

1:03:58week I spent time with a wide variety of

1:04:02psychiatrists and at the end of that

1:04:04week there was a consensus among all of

1:04:07these psychiatrists that I had

1:04:10ADHD as I said at the beginning that was

1:04:13news to me uh because I had always

1:04:16thought of this as a condition

1:04:18associated with hyperactivity I was not

1:04:20a hyperactive kid I didn't feel like I

1:04:23had any of the symptomology that at

1:04:25least at least in my mind was associated

1:04:27with that condition but through the

1:04:30process of of being diagnosed and and

1:04:33kind of working through it I've

1:04:34developed a whole new perspective on

1:04:36this and I realized the extent to which

1:04:38I developed coping strategies to deal

1:04:41with this that allowed me to kind of

1:04:43overcome that

1:04:45predisposition I would have never known

1:04:48I just didn't think that I was you know

1:04:50that person swimming Al treated yeah

1:04:53that's how I did it I would just exhaust

1:04:55myself through exercise and then I could

1:04:57calm down and sit so I didn't have that

1:04:59experience of not being able to focus

1:05:02because the exercise gave me a different

1:05:05Baseline so can I talk about the five

1:05:07homework symptoms of ADD and you tell me

1:05:10which ones you have I mean there more

1:05:12the diagnostic criteria includes 18 but

1:05:15I think of one it's short attention span

1:05:18but not for everything it's short

1:05:20attention span for regular routine

1:05:23everyday things schoolwork homework

1:05:26paperwork chores for things that are new

1:05:30novel highly

1:05:33stimulating or frightening people with

1:05:36ADD can pay attention just fine because

1:05:38they have their own intrinsic dopamine

1:05:42love is a drug especially new love is a

1:05:46dopamine drug so if you love your

1:05:48teacher we going to want to please them

1:05:50and so you do fine in that class but

1:05:54your atten span is erratic and that's

1:05:59what fools people because they're like

1:06:01no I'm interest I heard President George

1:06:04W bush say this and he said no I did

1:06:07well in the classes I was interested in

1:06:09and I'm like not another add President

1:06:12right we just came off of Bill Clinton

1:06:15who clearly had impulse control issues

1:06:18so does that resonate with you sure the

1:06:21things that I'm interested in I can be

1:06:24completely obsessed by the things I'm

1:06:26not interested in uh are more

1:06:29challenging but to me that just isn't

1:06:31that everybody and I think in reflecting

1:06:34on that like I've made some pretty big

1:06:36life decisions about career in the past

1:06:38where I was choosing a career path that

1:06:42that really wasn't what I should have

1:06:43been doing and I have a huge capacity

1:06:46for persevering and determination and I

1:06:50could force myself to you know do the

1:06:53work that I wasn't interested in um but

1:06:55it becomes very exhausting and I I was a

1:06:59lawyer for a long time and I have many

1:07:01memories of being in the law firm and

1:07:03trying to force myself to write these

1:07:04briefs and motions and do Discovery and

1:07:07all the stuff that you do as a litigator

1:07:09and looking around and and realizing

1:07:12that my colleagues seem much more

1:07:13interested in this than me and I just

1:07:16thought everybody was suffering through

1:07:18this in the same way that I was rather

1:07:20than the truth which was I was this

1:07:24round Peg trying to Jam myself into a

1:07:26square hole Yeah that you didn't love it

1:07:28and if you have add one of the things I

1:07:31tell all my ADD patients is find

1:07:34something you love that you can make

1:07:37money at right I mean too often people

1:07:39oh find things you love that you're then

1:07:42dependent on other people that's

1:07:44prescription for misery the second

1:07:46symptom is distractability you see too

1:07:49much you feel too much you sense too

1:07:53much it's like the world comes at you

1:07:56quickly and so you want to sit down and

1:07:59read a book but then you get distracted

1:08:03by the email or by your phone or because

1:08:05you're hungry or something but also

1:08:08isn't that everybody no my best friend

1:08:11in medical school had add and I loved

1:08:15him dearly he graduated top of our class

1:08:18I was second he was first but he was my

1:08:20partner so I was proud of him and just

1:08:24so distru Ed and it was funny to sort of

1:08:28watch it I don't feel like I'm a

1:08:30distracted person but I do feel like I

1:08:33need to be doing one thing at a time and

1:08:35as long as I just have this one thing

1:08:37that I'm doing like I'm okay I can focus

1:08:39I can even when I don't feel like like

1:08:42doing it I can kind of overcome that

1:08:43override it and do it where I get into

1:08:46trouble is when I wake up and now my

1:08:48life is very full there's lots of things

1:08:50happening and I start to think about all

1:08:51the things that I have to do and it

1:08:53becomes very overwhelming very quickly

1:08:55and I get stressed and anxious and that

1:08:58gets translated into just being an

1:09:00aggravated person and you know being

1:09:02unpleasant to be around but it left to

1:09:05my own devices if I can just I like to

1:09:06go all in on one thing disappear

1:09:10complete it and then I'm open for the

1:09:12next thing the third one is

1:09:15organization it's hard for people who

1:09:18have ADD Organization for time and space

1:09:22now I think there's seven different

1:09:24types of ADD say What's the difference

1:09:26between ADD ADHD what are we talking

1:09:29about well I think there's seven types

1:09:32that's what I learned from Iman but add

1:09:35attention deficit disorder was a name

1:09:38given to this thing it used to be called

1:09:40minimal brain dysfunction before then by

1:09:43the American Psychiatric association

1:09:45with dsm3 Diagnostic and statistical

1:09:48manual 1980 that's what I trained on

1:09:511987 for God knows what reason they

1:09:54changed the name to ADHD so it used to

1:09:58be add with hyperactivity or add without

1:10:03hyperactivity and they Chang the name to

1:10:06ADHD to sort of lump everybody together

1:10:09the problem is half the people who have

1:10:11this disorder are never

1:10:14hyperactive and so it was very confusing

1:10:17and then 1994 they changed the name

1:10:19again to

1:10:21ad/hd highlighting half the people have

1:10:25this are never hyperactive so you know

1:10:27the names are not scientific let's just

1:10:30be super clear about this there's no

1:10:33biology to this a group of psychiatrists

1:10:37get together and they vote based on what

1:10:40they think the best evidence is and

1:10:43often it's sort of silly like we lost

1:10:46Aspergers this time everybody now

1:10:49whether you're Elon Musk and high

1:10:51functioning autistic gets the same

1:10:54diagnosis as someone who's in a

1:10:56Developmental Center that can never live

1:10:58independently I mean it's just bizarre

1:11:01when I first started Imaging I'm like oh

1:11:05it's not one thing based on Imaging and

1:11:07if we look at your brain I'll be able to

1:11:09tell you so type one is classic ADHD

1:11:15short attention span distractability

1:11:19disorganized for time and space we

1:11:21didn't talk much about that one but your

1:11:23room your desk your book bag trouble

1:11:27with

1:11:28organization and you might I'm not that

1:11:30guy if anything I'm

1:11:32OCD so you might be type three we'll get

1:11:35to that people with ADD tend to be late

1:11:39or just right on time because they

1:11:41actually don't start getting ready to go

1:11:42until oh my God I'm late that's not me

1:11:45either okay I'm generally timely this is

1:11:47why like I want to go and get a brain

1:11:49brain I'm not convinced that I have so

1:11:51one sort of two not that much uhhuh the

1:11:56not being able to multitask is very male

1:11:58brain thing as opposed to an add thing

1:12:02disorganization for is procrastination

1:12:05you put things off put things off put

1:12:07things off I do that until you're mad or

1:12:09somebody else is mad at you and then

1:12:12five is impulse control you say things

1:12:15you probably shouldn't say or do things

1:12:19probably shouldn't do and it's like the

1:12:22break in your brain is vulnerable and I

1:12:27think those are the five things and if

1:12:28you have three out of five you probably

1:12:30do have it and it sounds like for you

1:12:32somebody should look at your brain right

1:12:34and what would you see was it the

1:12:35interrupting at

1:12:37the conference you went to or at the

1:12:39treatment you went to where all the

1:12:41psychiatrist says you have add the

1:12:44interrupting what do you mean like were

1:12:46you interrupting people in conversations

1:12:48or no I don't think so why were they say

1:12:51it wasn't that am I interrupting you now

1:12:54is that why you're saying that I get

1:12:56accused of that on the podcast

1:12:58interrupting people too much if I was

1:13:00interrupting they didn't tell me that I

1:13:02was and if I was doing it I was probably

1:13:06not consciously aware of doing it so why

1:13:08do they want to drug you what did they

1:13:11see that they went you have ADHD

1:13:15probably related to to addiction issues

1:13:19perhaps I don't know or coping

1:13:21mechanisms that I've developed to focus

1:13:24or

1:13:25the way in which I can use excessive

1:13:28exercise to calm myself down I'm not

1:13:32sure well we'll look at it MH and it's

1:13:35like how do we know unless we look right

1:13:37it's like right one of the things I what

1:13:39would you see in a brain scan of a brain

1:13:43with ADHD versus a healthy brain so

1:13:47often healthy at rest and drops with

1:13:51concentration especially in your

1:13:54prefrontal cortex front third of your

1:13:56brain an area called the basil ganglia

1:13:58where dopamine works and your cerebellum

1:14:02so healthy at rest drops when you

1:14:06concentrate we need to fix up and you

1:14:09can fix it with exercise you can fix it

1:14:11with certain stimulating supplements and

1:14:14sometimes medication can be incredibly

1:14:18helpful but the problem is what I saw

1:14:21because I'm a child psychiatrist and an

1:14:23adult psychiatrist part of half the

1:14:26patients we have at Aman clinics have

1:14:28ADD of one form or another and what I

1:14:31found there's classic short attention

1:14:33span distractability

1:14:36hyperactivity impulse control issues

1:14:39there's inattentive add never really

1:14:42hyperactive or terribly impulsive but

1:14:44trouble performing trouble with Focus I

1:14:48have a child with both of those types

1:14:51type three is overfocused add the

1:14:54problem is not that you can't pay

1:14:56attention it's you can't shift your

1:14:59attention you end up to get stuck on

1:15:02things and because you're organized that

1:15:06tends to be the one exception is type

1:15:11three but these people also tend to be

1:15:14argumentative oppositional if things

1:15:16don't go their way they get upset and uh

1:15:20they can hold on to grudges and their

1:15:24addiction of choice tends to be things

1:15:26that calm their brain down whether it's

1:15:29alcohol or marijuana MH type four is

1:15:33limbic add their emotional brain works

1:15:36too hard and they tend to see the world

1:15:38through dark glasses they have the a

1:15:41Hallmark add traits plus sort of mild

1:15:44depression type five is temporal low add

1:15:47often from a head injury one or both of

1:15:50their temporal loes hurt so mood

1:15:52instability irritability temp

1:15:55stuff six I'm famous for it's made it to

1:15:59movies it's called The Ring of Fire

1:16:01where the brain is not low in activity

1:16:04it's high in activity it's working way

1:16:07too hard often due to inflammation and

1:16:11type seven is anxious add and it's their

1:16:14level of anxiety that gets some places

1:16:16on time but they have to work so much

1:16:18harder than their colleagues and all of

1:16:21these are rooted in genetics some is RO

1:16:25in trauma but add is very genetic right

1:16:30it's so genetic that if I see an ADHD

1:16:33child and I don't see it at all in their

1:16:35mom side or their dad's side I'm looking

1:16:38at the kid to see if he looks like their

1:16:40parents I mean it's literally that

1:16:42really genetic yeah interesting yeah I

1:16:46don't know if I could identify it in my

1:16:49in my family tree I mean I'm not

1:16:51qualified to but it can also be caused

1:16:54by a

1:16:55concussion and so you know if you come

1:16:58to see me one of the things we're going

1:16:59to ask you five or six seven 10 times

1:17:02have you ever had a brain injury have

1:17:04you ever fallen out of a tree off a

1:17:06fence dove into a shallow pool have you

1:17:08ever had a concussion playing sports a

1:17:11car accident I look forward to getting

1:17:14my brain scanned it'll be super

1:17:16interesting you'll have me right we can

1:17:18do this I'm so excited yeah good let's

1:17:21talk about raising mentally strong kids

1:17:24I AP oliz you just handed me this book I

1:17:26haven't read it yet so perhaps you can

1:17:29kind of give us the thesis like why did

1:17:31you write this book and what is it that

1:17:32you're trying to say here so children

1:17:37are at the

1:17:39worst in recorded history as far as

1:17:42mental health problems the levels of

1:17:45anxiety depression

1:17:47ADHD self-harming behaviors is out of

1:17:52control brand new study 54 % of teenage

1:17:55girls report being persistently sad 32%

1:18:00have thought of killing themselves 24%

1:18:03have planned to kill themselves and 133%

1:18:07have tried to kill themselves schools

1:18:10are

1:18:12overwhelmed by the incidence of kids on

1:18:16medication and the kids suffering with

1:18:19panic attacks and other mental health

1:18:23problems

1:18:24it's awful what's happening

1:18:28and what I learned really early in my

1:18:32career is the most effective

1:18:35intervention to raise mentally healthy

1:18:38kids is parenting strategies and the

1:18:42first one obviously if you want mentally

1:18:44healthy children you have to be mentally

1:18:46strong yourself I talk about how

1:18:49important that is and then there's this

1:18:52system that I become attached to that I

1:18:56just think is so effective and I wrote

1:18:59the book with my friend Dr Charles Fay

1:19:01who's the president of the love and

1:19:04logic Institute and that program is

1:19:07actually very important to me personally

1:19:09because when we brought that into our

1:19:13home it just became so much happier and

1:19:17so in the book we

1:19:19mixed

1:19:20neuroscience and the program I've been

1:19:22using for years with love and logic so

1:19:27we combine these two programs to really

1:19:31do what we think of is the latest

1:19:34Innovations in parenting every parent

1:19:38wants mentally strong kids we want our

1:19:40kids to be confident kind responsible

1:19:43all of these things and obviously kids

1:19:46in it how you're behaving that's much

1:19:49more important than what's coming out of

1:19:50your mouth if your if your behavior

1:19:52doesn't match you know what you're

1:19:53saying they're paying attention to the

1:19:56behavior much more than the words um but

1:19:59where you know where are even the best

1:20:02intentions going wrong I mean the

1:20:04statistics that you you quoted are

1:20:06devastating there's a lot of things

1:20:08contributing to that of course but where

1:20:12is it where we think we're doing the

1:20:14right thing and perhaps we're misguided

1:20:16we're rescuing children way too much

1:20:19we're solving their problems because of

1:20:22our low self-esteem and OB guilty of

1:20:25this I think for the first three and and

1:20:28I love all my children and if you don't

1:20:31feel really great about yourself you get

1:20:35self-esteem by doing for your children

1:20:38when they could do for themselves and

1:20:40then what you do is you create

1:20:42incompetent people so when a child comes

1:20:46to you and says I'm

1:20:48bored too often parents then scramble to

1:20:52get them the latest video game or take

1:20:54take them

1:20:55someplace rather than just give them the

1:20:58problem back MH oh I wonder what you're

1:21:00going to do about that and then be

1:21:04loving enough to not fix it so my wife

1:21:10and Chloe or 20-year-old when she was

1:21:13six seven they'd have these monster

1:21:16homework battles and I'm a child

1:21:19psychiatrist and I look at tana and go

1:21:22you've done second grade get out of this

1:21:26fight she listen to me so but three of

1:21:29her friends recommended parenting with

1:21:31love and logic and that's the

1:21:32foundational principle let kids solve

1:21:35their own problems I mean be a good

1:21:37coach be a resource don't solve it and

1:21:41so when Tana really understood it she

1:21:44announced to Chloe sweetheart I've done

1:21:47second grade I'm never ever again going

1:21:50to ask you to do your homework it's on

1:21:52you and if if you don't do it you just

1:21:56have to be okay with the

1:21:57consequences and Khloe had a fit and

1:22:00said I never said I was going to do my

1:22:01homework I'm just not going to do it now

1:22:03stormed off came back 20 minutes later

1:22:06she's now a junior a Chapman no one's

1:22:09ever asked her to do her homework again

1:22:12and she had a 4.2 out of high school

1:22:14she's responsible she competent and can

1:22:17solve her own problems we go

1:22:22wrong when we steal their self-esteem by

1:22:25solving their problems so for example

1:22:29Chloe knew it if she forgot her homework

1:22:31nobody's bringing it to her if she

1:22:33forgot her sweater in a cold day

1:22:35nobody's bringing it to her um if she

1:22:37forgot her lunch it takes 24 hours to

1:22:41starve nobody's bringing it to her and

1:22:44she only forgot those things like twice

1:22:48and now she doesn't forget anything you

1:22:50learn the lesson yeah you become

1:22:52self-directed you develop that

1:22:55self-efficacy that will serve you later

1:22:57in life self-esteem comes from

1:22:59performing esteemable acts on behalf of

1:23:02yourself and if you're always rushing in

1:23:04to solve the problem or rescue you're

1:23:08depriving your child of the opportunity

1:23:10to learn those things right it's a

1:23:12short-term gain long-term pain situation

1:23:16and I think a lot of time crunched

1:23:17parents are like okay let me just solve

1:23:19the problem because I just you know I

1:23:21have other things to do and I can fix

1:23:22this rather than allow the child to

1:23:25scramble and mess up and figure it out

1:23:27on their own because sometimes that's

1:23:30not convenient right and it's also not

1:23:32gold directed so principle number one is

1:23:35know what you want what kind of parent

1:23:37do you want to be and what kind of child

1:23:39do you want to raise ask yourself that

1:23:43question ask the other parent that

1:23:46question kind of parents do we want to

1:23:48be and what kind of child do we want to

1:23:50raise because then your behavior stems

1:23:55from whatever mission statement you

1:23:57create and then the second thing is

1:23:59attachment it's bonding and that

1:24:02requires two things time actual physical

1:24:06time and listening parents talk way too

1:24:10much and we have all this great

1:24:12knowledge and all these great

1:24:14experiences we just want to pour it into

1:24:16their little heads and they tune us out

1:24:19if you do active listening with them

1:24:23they'll

1:24:24be so close to you but if you tell them

1:24:27how to think and you interrupt

1:24:30them it's very bad for the relationship

1:24:33for the attachment and then I have an

1:24:35exercise in the book that's just gold I

1:24:38mean it works it's worked every time I

1:24:40think parents who actually do it the way

1:24:42I ask is 20 minutes a day with the kid

1:24:46do something with them they want to do

1:24:48and during that time no commands no

1:24:51questions no direction and and when I

1:24:55first figured it out and then I just saw

1:24:57it work and it worked and it

1:25:00worked my literary agent uh at the time

1:25:03Carl he called me up and he said I'm

1:25:07having trouble with my 2-year-old so he

1:25:09had a child later in life and Lara was

1:25:11too and she's like she never wants

1:25:13anything to do with me and I'm like

1:25:16you're ignoring her like what do you

1:25:18mean I'm like do this and I told him

1:25:20special time 20 minutes a day do

1:25:23something with her that she wants to do

1:25:25which means basically sit on the floor

1:25:27and play with her blocks and no

1:25:30questions no commands no directions and

1:25:33he's like that won't work uh he tended

1:25:35to be oppositional and I'm like oh great

1:25:38you represent an idiot I said you need

1:25:41to do this I'm going to call you in

1:25:43three weeks get the party started and

1:25:45three weeks later I called him up and

1:25:48I'm like hey Carl it's Daniel Daniel she

1:25:51won't leave me alone all she wants to do

1:25:53is be with me i s I walk in the door she

1:25:55grabs my leg she wants her

1:25:58time right because isn't that what we

1:26:02all wanted I mean unless our parent was

1:26:06awful we all wanted their

1:26:09attention

1:26:11and you know I'm one of seven so you

1:26:14know my mother had to be judicious about

1:26:17how she did but because my dad was never

1:26:19home we didn't have a relationship and

1:26:231972

1:26:24turned 18 He told me if I voted for

1:26:26movern the country would go to hell

1:26:29and because we didn't have a

1:26:31relationship I voted for McGovern and

1:26:33the country went to hell but it had

1:26:35nothing to do with McGovern it was

1:26:36because of Nixon and Watergate and I

1:26:39like having influence with my kids but

1:26:42there's no influence without

1:26:45connection there's different kinds of

1:26:47attachment also I think that's very wise

1:26:51and it's also very straightforward and

1:26:53doable like

1:26:54invest your time in your children be

1:26:56interested in what they're interested in

1:26:58uh when they tell you something Don't

1:27:00lecture them or tell them why they're

1:27:02wrong just say tell me more and be on

1:27:05their level where they don't feel judged

1:27:09or like you're going to you know

1:27:12basically explain something to them

1:27:14right I think that's great advice on the

1:27:17opposite end of the spectrum from

1:27:18someone like your father is the very in

1:27:21mesed parent that's a different kind of

1:27:23attachment disorder where they're overly

1:27:26invested in in their child's well-being

1:27:30and the child becomes a vehicle for

1:27:32their own self-esteem right so they're

1:27:34projecting all of this emotional baggage

1:27:37on their child and the child then is

1:27:40shouldering this

1:27:42responsibility to make their parent feel

1:27:45okay and whether that projection is

1:27:47ambition or their own insecurities or

1:27:50their own dreams that were never

1:27:52realized the child on an conscious level

1:27:55is is subsuming all of that and that you

1:27:58know becomes problematic no question I

1:28:01like to think of good parents like good

1:28:05coaches and I've been blessed to work

1:28:08with some amazing coaches

1:28:12and good

1:28:14coaches notice what you do right and

1:28:17they

1:28:18teach bad coaches notice what you do

1:28:22wrong and focus on on it and in the book

1:28:27there's a whole section on why I collect

1:28:30Penguins so I have like 2,000 Penguins

1:28:34it's a little weird not real live

1:28:36Penguins no penguin pens cups dolls tie

1:28:41I have a penguin Weather Vein a penguin

1:28:43vacuum it's bizarre but my oldest child

1:28:48Anton who I adopted he was hard for me

1:28:51was argumentative oppositional things go

1:28:54his way got upset and I talked to my

1:28:57supervisor and she said you need more

1:29:02one-on-one time with him and I took him

1:29:05to a place called Sea Life Park which is

1:29:06in Hawaii it's on aahu it's sort of like

1:29:09SeaWorld they had sea animal shows and

1:29:12we had a great day whale show sea lion

1:29:15show Dolphin Show and at the end of the

1:29:18day I took him to the fat Freddy show he

1:29:20was a humbled penguin chubby but he's a

1:29:24amazing he climbed like a 20 foot diving

1:29:28board went to the end would bounce and

1:29:30jump in the water bowled with his nose

1:29:33counted with his flippers jumped through

1:29:35a fire and at the end of the show the

1:29:37trainer asked him to go get something he

1:29:40went and got it and he brought it right

1:29:41back and time Stood Still for me because

1:29:44in my head I'm like damn I asked my kid

1:29:47to get something and he wants to have a

1:29:49discussion for like 20 minutes and then

1:29:51he doesn't want to do it and I knew knew

1:29:54my son was smarter than the Penguin and

1:29:57I realized I was the problem and so I

1:30:00went up to the trainer

1:30:02afterwards and I'm like how'd you get

1:30:04Freddy to do all these really cool

1:30:05things and she said unlike parents

1:30:08whenever Freddy does anything like what

1:30:11I want him to do I notice him I give him

1:30:14a hug and I give him a fish and the

1:30:17light went on in my head that when my

1:30:20son did like things I really liked I

1:30:23wasn't paying attention but when he

1:30:25didn't I gave him a lot of attention cuz

1:30:27I didn't want to raise bad kids and I

1:30:31collect Penguins as a way to remind

1:30:34myself every day I'm shaping the people

1:30:37around me by what I pay attention that's

1:30:40interesting yeah so it's like this this

1:30:42totem to bring you back to that place

1:30:44that's cool you mentioned the Peril that

1:30:47so many teenage girls are experiencing

1:30:51currently when a young person reaches a

1:30:53certain c age it's natural for them to

1:30:57differentiate and sometimes if not often

1:31:01the communication suffers with the

1:31:03parent as a result because the kid is no

1:31:06longer interested in hanging out with

1:31:07the parent as much they got their own

1:31:09thing they want to shut the door to

1:31:11their bedroom and do their thing and and

1:31:13and not be bothered um so with this rise

1:31:17in mental health issues that young

1:31:20people are experiencing what is the

1:31:23counsel to the parent parent who is in

1:31:25the middle of that situation where it's

1:31:28more challenging to connect and

1:31:30communicate with their young teen

1:31:32because that person you know they're not

1:31:35in the same place as when the kid was an

1:31:36adolescent but also knowing there are

1:31:39all these threats out there and you know

1:31:41the risks are much higher in terms of

1:31:44the mental health conditions that we're

1:31:45seeing now so there's so many things we

1:31:48talk about in the book attachment

1:31:51protects and you need to supervise your

1:31:56kids until their brain develops I mean

1:32:00you really need to understand normal

1:32:03development your prefrontal cortex so

1:32:07the front third of your brain largest in

1:32:09humans and any other animal by far is

1:32:12not fully melinated until you're about

1:32:1625 and so we think of 18-year-olds as

1:32:20adults it's ridiculous from a

1:32:22neuroscience standpoint

1:32:24and the insurance industry actually knew

1:32:27this way before neuroscientists knew it

1:32:30when do your insurance rates change when

1:32:32you're 25 they go down significantly

1:32:36because you make better decisions

1:32:39because you have more melinated frontal

1:32:42loes and uh myelinization is really

1:32:46important so when you're born there's

1:32:49not much of it going on in your brain

1:32:51about 2 months the back of your brain

1:32:53brain becomes melinated and you see

1:32:56better which is why when you smile at a

1:32:58newborn they don't smile back but when

1:33:00they're about 8 weeks old you smile at

1:33:02them they totally begin to connect with

1:33:05you so mization think of a copper wire

1:33:08or a neuron a brain

1:33:10cell mization is it gets wrapped with a

1:33:13white fatty substance sort of like

1:33:16insulation on a copper wire and that

1:33:19neuron Works 10 to 100 times faster

1:33:24and so your prefrontal cortex the most

1:33:28human thoughtful part of you is not

1:33:30fully melinated till you're about 25 and

1:33:34so it's undergoing wild development from

1:33:3914 to 25 yet that's when many parents

1:33:42abdicate their role and they like send

1:33:46kids off even though they're really not

1:33:49mature enough to go hang out with a

1:33:51bunch of other unmated br

1:33:54that join sororities and fraternities

1:33:57and all sorts of bad things happen to

1:34:00kids then I think we need to have

1:34:04Supervision in a way not that's

1:34:07intrusive but it's like I'm watching I

1:34:10want to know where you are I want to

1:34:12know when you're coming home and kids

1:34:14hate it but you know what they hate it

1:34:16more if you don't do it because that

1:34:18means you don't care what's the counsel

1:34:21for the parent who's struggling to

1:34:24bridge that communication gap with the

1:34:26teenager who's like leave me alone I

1:34:28don't want to talk to you or how was

1:34:30your day fine you know the the sort of

1:34:32Naval gazing you know that kind of

1:34:34occurs around that

1:34:36age yeah I think just try to be in their

1:34:38space as much as you can and be a good

1:34:41listener there's always two words to

1:34:44default to firm and kind if you really

1:34:48understand the resarch we talk about

1:34:49this in raising mentally strong kids

1:34:53it's parents who are firm and loving do

1:34:58way better than parents who are loving

1:35:01and permissive so permissiveness raises

1:35:05the most unhealthy children whether

1:35:08you're loving and permissive or hostile

1:35:10and permissive permissiveness is not

1:35:12good it's good to have boundaries and

1:35:15rules and kids should have chores and

1:35:20the problem is and I would love for

1:35:22people to write down statement I only do

1:35:25nice things for people who treat me with

1:35:27respect and too often children will be

1:35:30very disrespectful and then the parents

1:35:31will go out of their way to give them

1:35:33things because of their own guilt I do

1:35:37nice things for people who treat me with

1:35:39respect and I'm always nudging to have

1:35:43that time and even if they reject you I

1:35:46just keep coming back but don't bend

1:35:50over and do all these nice things for

1:35:52people who are rude to you that's not

1:35:55good what is your counsel around devices

1:36:00clearly some portion probably a large

1:36:03portion of the depression the suicidal

1:36:07ideation Etc that's on the rise

1:36:10particularly with teenage girls is a

1:36:12result of on some level social media the

1:36:15comparison that takes place the

1:36:17247 um access to what your peer group is

1:36:21doing at all times the bullying and

1:36:24criticism that occurs there parents I

1:36:27think are often confounded and confused

1:36:30about how to kind of manage that like

1:36:33the selfish absorption I mean what

1:36:35social media leads to is a toxic level

1:36:38of its about me and my council is

1:36:42delayed as long as you can I mean like I

1:36:46would hold out as long as you could and

1:36:49then supervise it and if you're paying

1:36:52for it it

1:36:54like you know you can have this make

1:36:57sure there are

1:36:58parental um security things on it

1:37:01because having eight-year-old boys

1:37:03exposed to pornography is a very bad

1:37:06thing for the developing brain talk

1:37:08about wearing out your pleasure centers

1:37:11um so you need parental devices delay it

1:37:15and then if they have it it's like you

1:37:18only can keep this if I have access to

1:37:23it

1:37:24so I think it's really important to have

1:37:28supervision you have to be their frontal

1:37:30loes until theirs develop because

1:37:33there's dangerous things out on the web

1:37:36you get it as long as it's not a problem

1:37:40like those kids who play video games

1:37:41that'll have a fit when you tell them to

1:37:43stop the video game needs to go away I

1:37:46mean it like needs to go away because

1:37:49you're the parent that's your role I

1:37:52I've sent way too many children to video

1:37:55game addiction programs I don't like

1:37:57that and they're like oh but his friends

1:37:59are doing it oh it's like you can do it

1:38:02as long as it's not creating a problem

1:38:05and I think you should limit it because

1:38:08the vices and social media and video

1:38:10games they dump dopamine they were

1:38:13purposefully created to addict you they

1:38:17use the same principles that Las Vegas

1:38:19uses to win money in gambling which is

1:38:23intermittent reinforcement we're not

1:38:25going to reinforce you all the time

1:38:26we're going to do it every so often and

1:38:29it dumps dopamine so what is that mean

1:38:32so you have two pleasure centers in your

1:38:34brain they're called the nucleus

1:38:35succumbent part of the basil ganglia and

1:38:39when you get excited about something it

1:38:40produces a little bit of dop and and

1:38:42pushes on the pleasure Center but the

1:38:45more you push on it the harder you push

1:38:48on it think about these violent video

1:38:50games pretty soon the uh nucleus

1:38:54accumbent becomes numb and you need more

1:38:58and more to get the same effect so you

1:39:01had an addiction right you struggled

1:39:03with an addiction toward the end of the

1:39:05addiction you were not getting the out

1:39:07OFA that you did in the beginning right

1:39:11because your pleasure centers had been

1:39:14worn out were wearing them out earlier

1:39:18than ever before and I think that's one

1:39:20of the big reasons for the escalating

1:39:24incidents of depression well the social

1:39:27media sites are similarly designed

1:39:30similarly designed they're

1:39:32scientifically devised to addict in the

1:39:34same way that a slot machine or or a

1:39:37video game is designed and mind share

1:39:42that's what they want that becomes

1:39:43tricky when you have a 16y old or an 18y

1:39:47old and part of being a member of their

1:39:51cohort or their tribe is being

1:39:54conversent on these platforms and being

1:39:57in communication on these devices so

1:40:00it's not as easy as saying I'm taking

1:40:02your phone away because that's the same

1:40:04as saying you're being kicked out of

1:40:06your community yeah but you have to be

1:40:08careful I mean you have to be willing to

1:40:11do that in order to show love which is

1:40:16super Vision if a parent is seeing their

1:40:19child sink into a depressive state what

1:40:23is the advice that you would give well

1:40:26the first thing is do not put them on an

1:40:29anti-depressant uh that's not the first

1:40:32thing to do now it may be the seventh or

1:40:33eighth thing to do but the first thing

1:40:37is to sort of evaluate their lifestyle

1:40:41too often children are taking their

1:40:43devices to bed and they're not sleeping

1:40:46and so I think it's a really good family

1:40:49habit for everybody including the

1:40:51parents to put their devices away or for

1:40:54you to take your kids I had one patient

1:40:58recently that got a new phone had an

1:41:02iPad and was up till 2:00 3:00 4:00 and

1:41:08he wasn't doing well in school it's like

1:41:09yeah sleep propri people don't do well

1:41:12in school so

1:41:14supervising technology I think is is

1:41:19critical I teach a high school course

1:41:21called brand Thrive by 25 we've done it

1:41:24for 15 years it's been like on seven

1:41:27different countries all 50 states we

1:41:30teach kids to love and care for their

1:41:32brains and what I found is the going

1:41:36idea about teenagers is parents have

1:41:39lost influence and their friends are

1:41:41more important and they won't listen is

1:41:44wrong if you are bonded to them they

1:41:47listen you have to explain it to them

1:41:50and give them reasons why why these

1:41:55companies use neuroscientists to addict

1:41:59your brains and steal your mind these

1:42:03vaping companies they are making money

1:42:08off of your early death so you have to

1:42:11educate them and get them

1:42:14angry at what I call the evil ruler

1:42:19right if I was an evil ruler and I

1:42:20wanted to create mental illness what

1:42:23would I do I'd create vaping devices and

1:42:26go this is a healthy form of smoking or

1:42:30I'd make them think marijuana's

1:42:32innocuous clearly it isn't or I'd give

1:42:36them a device that's clearly addictive

1:42:38and has all sorts of side effects and go

1:42:42well have fun with this and other people

1:42:44of your age are doing it so it's

1:42:45probably okay when you educate them like

1:42:50my 20-year-old she knows the time day

1:42:53that she's on her social media sites and

1:42:56she limits it and now she's doing this

1:42:58thing is how much sleep can I get right

1:43:02and she finds I do better with n and a

1:43:04half hours than I do with eight hours I

1:43:06was like well how smart is that that

1:43:08she's tracking it right so she uses

1:43:10devices oring to track it and it's

1:43:15because she understands it so rather

1:43:18than do this don't do that that's not

1:43:21helpful it's relation ship and then this

1:43:25is your brain how can you take care of

1:43:28your brain and that's what we do with

1:43:30brain thve by 25 it's very clever

1:43:33creating this narrative where there's

1:43:35sort of an evil Overlord you know kind

1:43:37of connect emotionally you know with

1:43:40healthy habits because you know young

1:43:43people and I would put myself in this

1:43:45category when I was young I mean there

1:43:47is a sense of invincibility like I can

1:43:48just do whatever I want and you can you

1:43:50can get away with things when you're

1:43:52young so it's harder to do that math

1:43:54especially when the brain isn't as

1:43:56developed like I want to eat what I want

1:43:58to eat and I want to like you know

1:43:59satisfy my urges when they crop up and

1:44:03doesn't matter if my parents tell me

1:44:04otherwise like I'm still going to do it

1:44:07and there's a process of like learning

1:44:09for themselves like well over time it's

1:44:12like well this isn't working anymore

1:44:14sometimes that takes longer than you

1:44:16know for certain habits than other

1:44:17habits um but I think that idea of like

1:44:21connecting with them on a story level

1:44:24where it's like oh I understand like

1:44:26it's we're in a competition and there's

1:44:28a battle against these people that want

1:44:29to keep me down is a really interesting

1:44:33cool way actually Florida used that

1:44:36strategy they'd

1:44:38spent hundreds of millions of dollars on

1:44:41campaigns to help kids stop smoking and

1:44:43none of it worked until they used that

1:44:47strategy let me tell you how the tobacco

1:44:50company's making money off of making you

1:44:53sick and getting them angry so

1:44:57activating the Rage which I thought was

1:45:00brilliant and when I wrote my book the

1:45:02end of mental illness I'm like here 62

1:45:05evil ruler strategies and you can just

1:45:08see like Girl Scouts selling Girl Scout

1:45:10cookies I mean the the big evil ruler

1:45:13strategy there was one girl in San Diego

1:45:16who set up outside a pot dispensary and

1:45:21sold like 300 box in 3 hours more people

1:45:25had like a marketing genius but you know

1:45:28giving these very unhealthy sugar Laden

1:45:31things that increases the risk of

1:45:32diabetes right but selling it to people

1:45:34who are high and have the munchies too

1:45:36is like not a not a bad idea

1:45:39entrepreneurship perspective we got to

1:45:42kind of wind this down but maybe you can

1:45:44leave us with a few more thoughts on not

1:45:47just the importance of caring for our

1:45:49brains but a few more practices to think

1:45:52about out that we could incorporate into

1:45:55our lives so I worked with BJ fog

1:45:58fors tiny habits so he and I work

1:46:02together and here are some of the tiny

1:46:05habits for brain health start every day

1:46:08with today is going to be a great day

1:46:11push your brain to look for what's right

1:46:14rather than what's wrong as you go

1:46:17through the day this is our big mother

1:46:19tiny habit go is this good for for your

1:46:23brain or bad for it so I used to do that

1:46:25with Chloe uh we played a game we called

1:46:27it Khloe's game I'm like blueberries

1:46:31good for your brain or bad for it two

1:46:33thumbs up

1:46:35avocados two thumbs up God's butter

1:46:38hitting a soccer ball with your head oh

1:46:41no th thumbs down your brain is soft

1:46:43your skull is hard play the game with

1:46:46them whatever they're going to do good

1:46:49for your brain or bad for it I mean ask

1:46:51yourself is this good for my brain or

1:46:53bad for you just have to know the

1:46:55science my favorite tiny habit it's

1:46:58actually not so tiny but it's so good

1:47:00when you go to bed at night um I say

1:47:03prayer and then I go well went well

1:47:06today and it's not like just writing

1:47:09down three things you're grateful for I

1:47:11go hour by hour looking for what I liked

1:47:16about the day what made me happy even

1:47:18the tiniest things like we have this

1:47:22Health Challenge or home with my

1:47:23mother-in-law it's public

1:47:25knowledge and just walking up the stairs

1:47:29I grabb my wife's

1:47:31hand and that made the highlight real

1:47:33because it was just this really tender

1:47:35moment in a hard time um if you do that

1:47:39the research shows your level of

1:47:42happiness will increase in just 3 weeks

1:47:46and when you go to pick something to eat

1:47:48or to drink ask yourself do I love it

1:47:52and does it love love me back you're in

1:47:54a relationship with food and with the

1:47:57things you consume do I it's like oh but

1:48:00I love wine but does it love you back uh

1:48:04we didn't talk about alcohol but it

1:48:06doesn't love you back right it damages

1:48:09the microbiome in your mouth and in your

1:48:11gut it' be a bad thing beautiful I love

1:48:15that practice it's similar to a

1:48:17gratitude practice but the paying

1:48:19attention to the little things that

1:48:21happen every day and those little things

1:48:24then becoming the big things that drive

1:48:26happiness I did that the night my dad

1:48:29died three and a half years ago one of

1:48:31the worst days of my

1:48:34life and I'm like really we're going to

1:48:36do this tonight but this is a very

1:48:38important Point your brain is

1:48:40lazy what you do what you teach it to do

1:48:44is what it's just going to do

1:48:46automatically so because I've done that

1:48:49for a decade even on an awful day day I

1:48:54found these three moments that were just

1:48:56so tender and beautiful that put me to

1:48:59sleep and it didn't mean I didn't grieve

1:49:01I still do but it means I'm managing my

1:49:06mind rather than letting it manage

1:49:09itself do you think that a fundamentally

1:49:13negative or pessimistic person can

1:49:15transform themselves into an an optimist

1:49:19I don't know about an optimist but they

1:49:20certainly can transform themselves to to

1:49:22be more of a

1:49:24realist which is why I love Byron

1:49:27Katie's work I don't know if you ever

1:49:28had her on she's aw I but I'm familiar

1:49:31with her work she's awesome and it's

1:49:35about what's true and too many

1:49:40people have the negative side of what's

1:49:43true and completely ignore the positive

1:49:46side of what's true like my wife never

1:49:49listens to me I've had that thought

1:49:51write it down and then go is that true

1:49:54is it absolutely true how does that

1:49:55thought make me feel awful how would I

1:49:57be without the thought I'd be just fine

1:50:00then take the original thought and turn

1:50:02it to the opposite she does listen to me

1:50:07and in fact she does not all the time

1:50:09but if I'm focused on what's wrong I'm

1:50:11going to feel wrong if I'm focused on

1:50:15what's right I'm going to be so much

1:50:16happier this thing got like 12 million

1:50:19views on Instagram I have the rule of 12

1:50:24which is if I'm going to do something

1:50:25important film a public television

1:50:27special write a book go on a trip

1:50:31happens stuff is going to go wrong just

1:50:34own it I don't get mad till the 13th

1:50:37thing has gone wrong cuz a mentally

1:50:41strong person can roll with things not

1:50:45roll

1:50:46over but they can roll with whatever

1:50:49comes your way not roll over because I

1:50:51don't want people taking advant

1:50:52advantage of you but learning that

1:50:56mental flexibility and that comes with

1:50:59practice part of it is not

1:51:01self-identifying with your thoughts and

1:51:04understanding that just because you're

1:51:05thinking something doesn't mean it has

1:51:06to be part and parcel of your identity

1:51:09nor that you need to act on it one of

1:51:11the strategies I love is give your mind

1:51:13a name I named my mind after my pet

1:51:16raccoon when I was 16 I literally had a

1:51:19pet raccoon loved her she loved me but

1:51:22she was a troublemaker she'd like ate

1:51:25all the fish out of my sister's aquarium

1:51:28tpd my mom's bathroom leave raccoon poo

1:51:31in my shoes raccoon in the house Claws

1:51:33and all and rabies and all that kind of

1:51:35stuff I loved her but she was a

1:51:38troublemaker that's my mind but that's

1:51:42that's what raccoons are that's what

1:51:43they do they have 200 different sounds I

1:51:46mean it's just like my mind and now when

1:51:49my mind is bothering me I'm like

1:51:53I should put you in the

1:51:54cage or what I do now because initially

1:51:57I would like just metaphorically put my

1:52:00mind in the cage and ignore her and now

1:52:02what I do is I flip her me over because

1:52:05I used to do that and tickle her and

1:52:07raccoons they have 200 different sounds

1:52:09and I'm like oh I bet I can get you to

1:52:11purr just so I can

1:52:14separate from my

1:52:17mind and be in

1:52:20control it's not the thought you you

1:52:22have that make you suffer it's the

1:52:24thoughts you attach to right it's the

1:52:27attachment and the attachment to

1:52:28expectations and outcomes but if you can

1:52:31uncouple that it allows more space to

1:52:35respond rather than to react and to be

1:52:38in a more neutral frame of mind about

1:52:40whatever is happening and I have to

1:52:42treat

1:52:43me like I would want other people to

1:52:45treat me so many of my patients when I

1:52:48first see them if they treated their

1:52:51friends the way they treated themselves

1:52:53they would have no friends they're so

1:52:56mean but sort of like a good coach am I

1:53:01noticing what's right and am I learning

1:53:04I treat public knowledge Alicia Newman

1:53:06who I dearly love she's uh Canadian pole

1:53:10Walter she's going to be in her second

1:53:12Olympics last year she was the world

1:53:14indoor champion and she's so hard on

1:53:18herself when we first met and we've come

1:53:21to we win or we learn we win or we learn

1:53:26and that's what I want all my patients

1:53:28to do they have a good day you win if

1:53:31not we

1:53:32learn I think that's a good place to

1:53:35land the plane for today thank you for

1:53:37coming and sharing with me today I

1:53:40appreciate it and I look forward to

1:53:42visiting your clinic and having my brain

1:53:44looked at and we'll see yeah add or not

1:53:48who knows who knows what it is I am a

1:53:50little scared though no don't be scared

1:53:53so so many people go oh I'm scared and

1:53:56I'm like whatever we

1:53:58see is good news because you have what

1:54:02you have and if it's awesome because

1:54:06you've done so many awesome things we

1:54:09celebrate and if it's not we

1:54:12rehabilitate and now is the time how old

1:54:16are you 57 yeah Now's the Time to get

1:54:19the party started it's not when you're

1:54:2177

1:54:23and you're dropping names and forgetting

1:54:26appointments and people are trying to

1:54:28take your keys from you the most loving

1:54:32thing you can do for your

1:54:35children is to work on having a healthy

1:54:39brain cheers to

1:54:42that thank you you're welcome

1:54:44[Music]

1:54:49peace that's it for today thank you for

1:54:51listening

1:54:52I truly hope you enjoyed the

1:54:54conversation to learn more about today's

1:54:56guest including links and resources

1:54:59related to everything discussed today

1:55:02visit the episode page at Rich roll.com

1:55:04where you can find the entire podcast

1:55:07archive as well as podcast merch my

1:55:11books Finding Ultra voicing change in

1:55:13the plant power way as well as the plant

1:55:16power meal planner at meals. roll.com if

1:55:20you'd like to support the podcast the

1:55:22easiest and most impactful thing you can

1:55:25do is to subscribe to the show on Apple

1:55:27podcast on Spotify and on YouTube and

1:55:31leave a review and or comment supporting

1:55:34the sponsors who support the show is

1:55:36also important and appreciated and

1:55:39sharing the show or your favorite

1:55:40episode with friends or on social media

1:55:42is of course awesome and very helpful

1:55:45and finally for podcast updates special

1:55:48offers on books the meal planner and

1:55:50other subjects please subscribe to our

1:55:52newsletter which you can find on the

1:55:54footer of any page at Rich roll.com

1:55:57Today's show was produced and engineered

1:56:00by Jason Cameo with additional audio

1:56:02engineering by Kale Curtis the video

1:56:05edition of the podcast was created by

1:56:07Blake Curtis with assistance by our

1:56:09creative director Dan Drake portraits by

1:56:12Davy Greenberg graphic and social media

1:56:15assets courtesy of Daniel CIS thank you

1:56:18Georgia Wy for copywriting and website

1:56:20management and of course our theme music

1:56:23was created by Tyler Patt Traer Patt and

1:56:26Harry matis appreciate the love love the

1:56:29support see you back here soon peace

1:56:33plance namaste

1:56:38[Music]

1:56:40[Applause]

1:56:41[Music]