Full transcript
0:09good afternoon thank you both so many of
0:12you coming in from the sunshine and this
0:15is the last of my first year of
0:20stretching music lectures and those
0:23who've been two previous any events will
0:27know that we've traced music in there is
0:30ways its authenticity its analysis its
0:35history the value of recordings last
0:39time we caught up with the business of
0:41the exciting business of how you
0:43progress music from its the spring
0:47library into available a native form for
0:51the performer that for the fine elector
0:53I think it's the one that is most people
0:56would consider the most important part
0:57of the music process the actual
0:59performance and so we have two actual
1:03performers to welcome Emma Kirkland
1:05Jacob Lindbergh
1:12and this is not entirely about
1:14performing it's talking as well about
1:18performance the vicissitudes of being a
1:22performer nowadays and what occupies
1:27intelligent famous performers when faced
1:30with this starting point of picking
1:33music off the library shelf finding a
1:37reference picking it from the music shop
1:39and settling down to decide is it for
1:44you
1:44does it fit your programs what are the
1:46pros and cons of this volume you see in
1:50front of you and we will eventually pass
1:52round a few volumes so you can see what
1:54these particular performers have in
1:56front of them so firstly when you pick
1:59something off the shelf
2:00what do you first look for well if I'm
2:05supposed to be singing it yeah we'll see
2:07I think um is it is it my range are
2:12those words am I going to go to get
2:13those words across because everyone has
2:15an effective speaking range and
2:18sometimes you very often find in the
2:21nature of this music a lot of stuffs for
2:23tenor actually and tenors can sound so
2:26easy and lovely on high notes and
2:28Sopranos they've got a different recipe
2:30for them so I'm always looking for for
2:32finding place things that are
2:33comfortable for me to speak and I double
2:38check if it looks a bit high I check
2:41various things depending on the piece I
2:43mean if it's a piece in several parts I
2:45look at the bass line in case it's got a
2:46funny cliff because if that's got a if
2:48the bass line isn't in the bass clef it
2:50might imply the whole thing should have
2:52been transposed down anyway but if it's
2:54a song of this type where you've got the
2:57loop part and there are different sizes
2:59of lute and so on there are various ways
3:01you could if you still love a song and
3:03you want to be able to do it their
3:04various ways you could reel into the
3:06right pitch for yourself but also double
3:09check what the Edition is who produce
3:12this image of it what were they thinking
3:14how they were they thinking of a piano
3:16part or something I mean just checking
3:18really what the provenance of the
3:21initial
3:21looking at if it is obviously from an
3:25original image then then I have to think
3:29okay that's that's more or less how he's
3:31supposed to look and either I fit it or
3:33I don't so having decided that it does
3:36fit then obviously I check over I mean
3:38if I know the composer already I'm going
3:40to have a sense of how he works and I'm
3:44going to go for the text because the
3:45great glory of the lute is that you can
3:47speak with it and that on the whole the
3:50level of the level of the text is very
3:54high it's it's beautiful
3:56often very beautiful words so and
3:59sometimes you can find out who wrote the
4:00poem there's all that side of things
4:02just just to check but in the end you
4:05you you have to feel if whether you can
4:07live with the song yourself and with it
4:08whether it's whether someone like me
4:10should should be singing it when the
4:11sentiments are appropriate to a woman or
4:14whatever that's with lute songs with
4:16other things obviously with with opera
4:19areas and that kind of thing what is the
4:21scoring who who else is playing is it
4:23just strings is there an oboe there I
4:25mean I love looking for chances to do it
4:28with with other melody instruments to be
4:30honest that's one of my ways that
4:32finding my way through a huge volume of
4:35stuff that I might want to try and sing
4:38will come a little bit later to the to
4:41the trials and joys of making programs
4:45out of this music because one of the
4:48features of earlier and more intimate
4:51music of course it wasn't designed for
4:53concert use we have to invent the format
4:57in which you hear it and whereas the
5:00average symphonic programmer can just
5:04slap a concerto and a symphony together
5:06on the page and say there's your program
5:07or if it's Marlee you just say okay
5:10resurrection symphony that's it the the
5:14early music specialist has to do quite a
5:17mosaic job with a lot of pieces
5:20averaging three minutes in length and
5:23you have to construct and your program
5:25from those but that in a moment
5:27Jakub from the point of view of the lute
5:30do you have a know when you when you
5:32come to look at that
5:34Editions is it a you find a huge
5:36advantage that the loot place from
5:38tablature or most lutenist Schnauzer on
5:42tablature a form of notation not the
5:45same as generation and therefore you can
5:47bypass some of the worst types of
5:51anything that a pianist suffers a lot
5:54from having over edited
5:56eighteenth-century music that's been
5:58adopted by 19th and 20th century editors
6:01we talked about this last time the
6:03lutenist I suspect has a closer a more
6:05direct tie to what the original had we
6:08live in a curious time just now actually
6:10we're very fortunate in my generation to
6:13have so many facsimile editions
6:15available to us so we can quite easily
6:19get hold of the facsimile copies of the
6:23originals and even there one has to be
6:26careful to some extent and often if
6:28there are other sources like manuscripts
6:31of the same pieces it's nice to
6:32double-check that the addition that
6:34they're working from is the best
6:35possible one but now what's happened is
6:38that because of internet and a very big
6:43community of enthusiastic amateur lute
6:47players they are now putting out all
6:48these tablatures on the internet so as a
6:51teacher I often find people have
6:53downloaded these tablatures that that
6:56players of who have not been very clever
6:59have been putting together so in fact
7:03for the younger generations now and now
7:06I think it's a bit dangerous because
7:08these tablatures are coming and they're
7:09often contaminated shall we say but yes
7:15but it the fact that we can play from
7:16the same type of notation that they use
7:18them is wonderful can I just tell the
7:20story I told you yesterday I was in
7:22Ozone a with a playing with a lute
7:25player from Cremona and we were doing a
7:27honey Shakespeare mishmash I sang the
7:29strengths divinsky songs again oh is
7:31that my thing on oops am I supposed to
7:33do no they do it I sang this divinsky
7:37songs and so we had modern wind players
7:40and we had
7:40illusion we had a gambler we had a choir
7:42and it was sort of Shakespeare through
7:44the ages and we had an actor he was
7:49brilliant and he was reading Italian
7:51translations of Shakespeare sonnets and
7:53he turned to Diego and said can you find
7:56me some music is about branches' well I
7:57read this sonnet and he is it ha picked
8:01up his iPad put it on the music stand
8:03and there was all of Dowland oh I'll
8:06have that one you know and would you
8:08like them he played 122 nope not that
8:10one then was it this thing this big had
8:12just the whole library that he could
8:14have played from it was just such a
8:16shock to see me well that of course was
8:20it was the facsimile that was the
8:21original so there was no problem about
8:22authenticity yeah it seemed it seems to
8:26me a little bit then what you're saying
8:27is that at least a lutenist
8:28and maybe potentially almost everybody
8:31can now be their own editor you no
8:34longer have to rely on what a
8:36professional musicologists have decided
8:38to choose amongst variant readings for
8:41you and publish in a volume you can take
8:43the raw material I think at the moment
8:45Luton is to probably are used to do it
8:47yes we're very more people who deal in
8:50medieval music are used to doing that
8:52conductors who deal in historical
8:56performance are getting used to being
8:58their own editor on the whole the the
9:02industrial musicians healthy they'd
9:07stand standard symphonic thinking tends
9:10to sub let the job of editing to
9:13somebody else and the orchestral player
9:15trusts implicitly what is put in front
9:18of them that so there is there a stage
9:20of understanding that has to have been
9:22passed through somebody else you trust
9:25just explained of before we go in into a
9:28little music and the added complication
9:31in your life of having more than one
9:33instrument around emma has one voice
9:36however it you'll describe it on the
9:38program it will remain that voice
9:40throughout the earring but you can
9:42well the lute is impressive the
9:43fascinating is instrument and has a very
9:45long history and there are so many
9:47different types and of course when
9:49choosing a program one has to think
9:51carefully what
9:52one brings along and so I often find
9:56myself deciding to travel with two but
10:00it is complicated and particularly if
10:02you have this very long instrument that
10:04it will hear later the thiol both the
10:07anagram of which is Oh bother because
10:16nowadays the rules with many flight
10:21companies is that anything over 150
10:24centimetres cannot be water seat for
10:26although it might actually fit in there
10:27so we have to check them in now many
10:31loop makers are now making these
10:33instruments in which the upper neck
10:34actually folds and so there are players
10:37who go around with that sort of
10:39instrument I don't and in fact for this
10:41particular lecture my the orbit which is
10:44made by exactly the same instrument
10:46maker as this one I borrowed because my
10:50field is at the moment parked in
10:52Stockholm so I try to avoid to fly with
10:55them but when you do one has to sort out
10:58I have an aluminium case especially made
11:02for it so that I can check it in without
11:03worrying too much
11:04and I designed that after a trip that
11:07Emma and I returned from from what was
11:11it Poland yes and I arrived and the
11:16instrument had been smashed checking it
11:18in and it was just broken right off so
11:21it's dangerous and if I can just play
11:25use one instrument I do but it depends a
11:27bit on the program and one wants variety
11:29and therefore often I like to have two
11:31we've also had fun with humidity helping
11:33or lack of it we went around America
11:37with with Jacobs wondrous Duty hasn't
11:39got here actually which is goes back
11:42because it's it's Benny as original from
11:44late 16th century and other instrument
11:47actually is well yeah that's about you
11:49back and Bailey and you take your
11:52hygrometer and you don't take it out of
11:54the case unless it shows what's
11:55percentage minimum or
11:57or tea really but in sometimes they can
12:00go down to 35 I've played in 35 percent
12:03humidity and it's okay but if it goes
12:04below that I don't take it out of the
12:06case half the concert halls you walk in
12:08there's about 26 they have to boost it
12:11okay on to the devising of a program
12:16from many many small pieces which is I
12:19think in most places left to the
12:21performer you don't have people won't
12:24dictate a program to so much as a squash
12:27or on the whole yeah that's not too much
12:28it's very good and as I say it's a tiny
12:33peices average links three minutes how
12:35to put them together and take for
12:38instance this first group what are the
12:39criteria why why these pieces it was
12:44obvious why a prelude begins and it has
12:46to be a prelude to something yes they're
12:49lucky that Alan has written this
12:51particular prejudice only one he
12:53probably improvised these how to think
12:54it's nice with a little introductory on
12:56the instrument to set the sort of sound
12:59levels and that particular Prelude
13:02finishes on a G major chord which leads
13:04us very nicely into the first of the
13:05songs into Gokul crystal tears which is
13:08one of the most perfect lyrics really
13:11both verses fit beautifully to this
13:13quite intricate setting and you'd think
13:15it was made for the first verse but the
13:17second verse fits beautifully as well
13:20and that's in G minor which about 80% of
13:23lute songs are in G minor meanwhile
13:25oh it's got anything on the C major
13:27chord in sorry mother I beg your pardon
13:31better safe yeah we did it okay we feel
13:33better even away from sheer exhaustion
13:35and then yeah we go to G minor from
13:38shall I see you guys here but that's
13:39interesting it pretty itself because G
13:42minor it suits the loop very beautifully
13:44the way it's tuned everyone we might
13:46think that all minor keys aside keys but
13:49actually you can be quite quite cheerful
13:52in the minor key as well if you're a
13:53lute player it's possible
13:55and then following that's prelude go
13:59crystal tears shall I sue shall I seek
14:01for grace which he has appeared to
14:03melancholy but it's a rather like love
14:05song actually and after that an
14:08instrumental piece proving I suppose
14:11that some recitals don't have to be song
14:13followed by song followed by song I love
14:16to make sure that there's plenty of
14:18solos I like sitting and listening to
14:19them anyway and I think it's a lovely to
14:22have the variety of sound and I think
14:25the the accompanists in this the people
14:27who who work with singers in this field
14:29are fantastic so listen should be heard
14:33[Music]
15:25[Music]
15:47[Music]
16:08so you're drops of
16:11[Music]
16:37[Music]
17:36[Music]
17:54[Music]
18:40[Music]
18:44oh my love me just yet we're not sheep -
18:58this with this met Oh
19:07[Music]
19:18[Music]
19:30[Music]
19:58[Music]
20:33[Music]
20:57[Music]
21:25[Music]
21:35[Music]
22:03[Music]
22:14[Music]
22:45I think it's always surprising how much
22:49skill goes into the constructing of
22:52sequences like that they seem to give
22:55such a perfect picture of complicated
22:57composer his various moods the styles of
23:01the lute and so on and then I know from
23:06experience so many ways such sequences
23:08can go wrong and simply that explanation
23:12of key sequences at the beginning and
23:14even if one is not aware of tonality and
23:18doesn't have perfect pitch you are
23:20always aware of the nastiness of
23:22shifting from one key to a key a
23:26semitone or a tone higher that there's
23:29no grammatical relationship to the key
23:31before simple things like that plus the
23:34nature of the words the framing with
23:36solos I think for a long time the the
23:39world of singing was rather bedeviled by
23:42what Gerald more writes about in his
23:45lovely water biography which he calls am
23:48I too loud the life of an accompanist
23:50and he said when he was young and I
23:53think we can all probably remember
23:55seeing these concert notices you know
23:57so-and-so Elizabeth Schumann soprano at
24:00the piano Gerald moored he was always
24:03very offended by this you know it wasn't
24:05even playing the piano it was so a
24:08program that is designed to show that
24:10Jacob is not merely at the lute but
24:14performing on the lute sets the thing in
24:17a much stronger context of the boy the
24:20voice being one component just to be
24:23technical about the singing aspect for a
24:26minute and when people write approvingly
24:31of the fact that you have found it
24:34single-handed a complete school of
24:36singing and do and do you take that as a
24:41compliment a limitation a correct
24:45observation because now I think we're
24:47quite used to finding not only Emma's
24:50voice everywhere but clones of Emma
24:52everywhere in the early music world that
24:55is a sort of school of production of
24:58thinking of suitability I would hope I
25:00mean I think there were some clones
25:01early on because there were all the
25:04people in charge of caladiums in
25:06particular in American Universities
25:08who'd say to their students please sing
25:11this like Emma Kirkby even when and
25:13people would come to me for coaching
25:14with girls with gorgeous olive
25:17complexions and warm Spanish sounding
25:20voices and they were going and I say
25:22look where do i what I'd be told to sing
25:24like you you know so what you're lucky
25:27before that possessor of a very
25:28beautiful voice is nothing like mine
25:30please use your voice same like me if
25:32you want to approach the words in the
25:34same way but please don't try and change
25:36this your actual sound I think that's
25:39now gone I think there are so many good
25:41new young singers around with it really
25:44individual voices and we can we can
25:47sense that they are using their own
25:49their own sound and that's that's
25:51wonderful I think if you can recognize a
25:55person by their sound if it's within
25:58range of their speaking voice it's often
26:00quite a help with this sort of material
26:02particularly I think the singing it does
26:06come from from speaking and that's how
26:08you get the individual sound of your own
26:11that's going to work for this repertoire
26:12so if there's anything I'd be very
26:15pleased to see more people try it's
26:18really engaging with the words and the
26:20embodying them that's the word I like to
26:22use that it's not just working hard on
26:24diction you know like for the cry poison
26:26sticking your mouth out and all that
26:28doesn't help that that doesn't actually
26:30make it the voice come comfortably at
26:33all you've actually got to have your
26:35whole body it's it is it is a your whole
26:38body is your instrument you've got to
26:39use your core sound and then let the
26:41consonants really have an important role
26:44and that there was a very strong feeling
26:46that lagarto line was so important that
26:49continent shall not be allowed to
26:51interfere you know and you can't say
26:54anything very easily if you try and sing
26:56in that way so you have to try and get
26:58the two things going you do have to have
26:59core sound you have to have your own
27:01sound ringing out strongly and then you
27:03have to challenge it with really
27:05consonants that close
27:06properly therefore they open properly
27:08all that sort of thing it's it's very
27:09very picky you can you can really change
27:13how someone gets singing through a line
27:16by addressing one or two syllables and
27:19it can be quite a liberation sometimes
27:20because actually it's terribly efficient
27:22to use the consonants very physically it
27:25saves an awful lot of air it's like your
27:27fuel and so it's really worth doing do
27:30you find that people can actually read
27:33the words without the music musically
27:37and make sense because I've sometimes
27:38been surprised in coaching sessions in
27:42standard Conservatoire where most of the
27:45singers will be aiming at the operatic
27:47stage and they've gone a lot for range
27:50for vibrato for sheer volume and when
27:54you say stop a minute dear can you just
27:56tell me what the words are of this Aria
27:58you're singing and they're a bit
28:00perplexed and and - - the music they
28:04don't seem sometimes even able to
28:06remember the sequence of the words yes
28:08and certainly not able to declaim them
28:11as though they were poetry which is is
28:13where most of the music starts well the
28:16trouble is where a composer has to put
28:18some repetitions in which is wonderful
28:21in the song it doesn't sound very good
28:22outside the song and so yeah the singer
28:24really has to have a shape the shape of
28:26the poem in their head before they start
28:28see what the composer what was the
28:30program what was the poem that the
28:32composer was approaching what shape was
28:34that before he started and that sounds
28:36very interesting then to see what the
28:37composer has then done and I think I
28:40have actually found exactly like you
28:42that it's incredibly useful and I've
28:45used this this list some asking for the
28:50words to be declaimed and I've said and
28:52sometimes I do have I'm coaching someone
28:54who has really doesn't know what the
28:56words say and has a sense of the poem
28:58but still doesn't know how to speak it
29:00because they think for singing it that
29:03the line is so important and I get them
29:05to say well you're an actress now you
29:06have to decline them go crystal tears
29:09that sort of thing and just speak it but
29:11with a lot of air going through and
29:13sometimes when that works and in
29:15Italian rested evens on especially when
29:18they really engage with that if they've
29:20had quite a lot of vibrato at the
29:21beginning which I have never mentioned
29:23it's gone because actually the way to
29:28get rid of the sort of a grotto that's
29:30annoying
29:30is to have a really good clean release
29:33into a note go not good it's as simple
29:36as that really
29:37let the consonant give you a clean entry
29:39and then you can add the vibrato later
29:41on as an ornament but it's not the first
29:43thing you see first thing you hear sorry
29:46going back to what you said a little bit
29:48earlier you you encourage them to find
29:51their natural voice absolutely rather
29:53than try to assume a persona because
29:55they think this is correct for for early
29:58music when you're faced with lute and
30:01pupils do you still get people arriving
30:04nowadays at the lute through a start in
30:08the guitar because it used it used to be
30:10quite a bugbear of the teaching of
30:12historical plucked instruments that
30:14people came at it from a school
30:18completely separated in tradition yes
30:21that's very normal so they they have to
30:23be taught not to behave like their
30:25natural guitarist selves they have to
30:27make yeah how do you d - D - very well
30:32the way I do I often the he oboe is a
30:35good step towards it because the Theo
30:38BER players for example they used nails
30:40quite often in Italy so therefore the
30:43big difference between playing the lute
30:45in the authentic way is we don't use
30:47fingernails we use the flesh of the
30:50fingertips and that's one of the first
30:52obstacles in a way if a guitarist I had
30:55had to do that same decision myself many
30:58years ago - I cut my nails off and
31:01that's dangerous for a guitarist so by
31:04playing a bit on a thiol bow first where
31:06the nails are okay and they get cooked
31:10then one can go to the finer points
31:13of a loop instead where there touches is
31:16very different and there are a number of
31:18other things that they need to one of
31:22the biggest concepts I think when
31:24changing from guitar to lute is when you
31:27play the guitar a bit like the legato
31:29idea they are taught that all fingers
31:32should sound absolutely equal so they
31:35practice it in that way and they do
31:36scales with but whereas a lute and
31:38playing is wonderful I mean it is
31:40actually taking advantage of the hand we
31:43have the captain of the fingers the
31:44thumb who always takes the strong beat
31:47and then the index which is the short
31:49finger takes the light beat or if you
31:51use alternate with these two this always
31:54the second thing it takes a strong beat
31:55and the light fingertip so there's a
31:57natural link between physical movement
32:00and musical expression and that is
32:02something that intrigues them actually
32:03because it's the opposite of what
32:04they've been taught and some people just
32:07say no this is not for me but others of
32:10course the left hand they've sought it
32:11out in their youth so it's all talked
32:13about the right hand and therefore one
32:15can go ahead much quicker with somebody
32:17who's done the guitar although one has
32:18to do a certain amount of D ki tarah
32:20fication
32:22I think this business of using the
32:24natural facility and differences of the
32:28body applies to too many instrument
32:31sizes being a little bit denied by
32:34traditional Conservatoire because you
32:36practiced a piano like mad to make your
32:384th finger as strong as your second
32:41finger and things like this and it was
32:44never so in in the 17th and 18th
32:46centuries it would it was admitted that
32:48you had good and bad fingers which meant
32:51strong and weak fingers which gave an
32:53automatic inflection to the playing with
32:56ice and just the same as it was assumed
32:58when you play the violin that the down
33:00bow is strong and the up bow the
33:03returned bow is lighter and that gave
33:06the the plasticity to the line that you
33:10played more recent training and
33:13particularly in violinists Russian
33:15training the Juilliard up bow is several
33:18times louder than the Juilliard down
33:20there it's so counter to nature that you
33:24have to really
33:25worked on kids who have learned this guy
33:27to make a virtue of the inequality and
33:31what just while we're on the teachings
33:33that we wanted one other question only
33:35because it was presented to me
33:36interestingly other day a boy came who'd
33:40been criticized for his playing of a
33:42Mozart Sinatra I think in some
33:44competition and he came along and said
33:47after a class is it possible to teach
33:51insight and I said well why what exactly
33:56are you asking he said he was criticized
33:57for playing his Mozart technically
34:00perfectly well but lacking insight and
34:03he wanted to know now where he should go
34:05into Kuhn and although you know one
34:11despairs in a way of being asked the
34:13question what what you think when people
34:16say how can I see into this world of
34:19Elizabeth and Jacobi and music can it be
34:22done by teaching or is it just done done
34:24by osmosis and an interest in the entire
34:28I think that's a real or effective way
34:30obviously is what people have found out
34:32for themselves is always going to go in
34:35deeper yes I feel very sorry for your
34:38your questioner mercifully it's so easy
34:41to say things like that about a
34:42performance isn't it so you say that's
34:44passionate that's commitment and you
34:46just think well how do you how do you
34:48know what's going on inside I mean
34:51especially in the side because that
34:52subtlety isn't it it's very difficult
34:54well he has to communicate something so
34:56if if they are saying you are feeling
34:59more than you are communicate this night
35:01this man a fear but I mean that is
35:03teachable you can teach people to bring
35:05out what is not that the same as you can
35:08teach acting expression when the full
35:11feeling is is in there you can sense but
35:15but it doesn't in fact communicate but I
35:18I just wonder whether insight is
35:21something different from just experience
35:22or climb or it was a sense of experiment
35:26it's quite cruel word to use
35:27a young person isn't in the way but yeah
35:30I mean with it that expression I
35:32remember this is vividly and very very
35:35nice Italian professor used to live in
35:38London when I started and he was so
35:41sympathetic and so nice and so helpful
35:43and I was singing away might want to
35:44Verdi with all the passion I could
35:46muster and he said yes it's going very
35:49nicely huh don't get much feeling yet he
35:55was right because actually it was all in
35:57my head and not in my body so that's
35:59really the point you've just got to get
36:01your whole body and I think with you're
36:03a young man with his was it was it
36:05violin or hit though yeah piano yeah
36:07well I don't know enough about pianos
36:09but I mean in a sense it is going to be
36:13the physical involvement of the body
36:16isn't it somewhere you've got to give
36:17away a bit more and live more
36:20dangerously somewhere but it you
36:21actually it's very happy hard for young
36:23people to live dangerously without
36:24making a mess and they don't want to do
36:26that you know I think historically is
36:28sometimes sometimes and help in that
36:30sort of situation one of one of the
36:33useful cures I think for perhaps being
36:35slightly petrified at the modern
36:37keyboard is that you've been taught
36:40somehow that the instrument you're using
36:43is not exactly appropriate to the
36:45repertoire you're playing and so they're
36:47in a slightly frozen state of not
36:48wanting to overdo the Steinway ground
36:51for fear that the purity police will
36:55come along and complain that they
36:57they've overstepped the mark to go then
37:00and play on an appropriate instrument
37:03where you can really go to its limits
37:05where Mozart in his Sonata uses the very
37:08lowest and the very highest note it's
37:10very good had the only other suggestion
37:13I could make is that he should not only
37:14play experiment a little on on
37:17instruments that were rather closer to
37:19Mozart's intention but also play for a
37:21sort of setting that wasn't quite so
37:24modern concert hall inclined so it's the
37:27problem I'm sure and you both have a
37:30setting up concepts of recitals and
37:33performances in often threatened by
37:36buildings that are too big an audience
37:38of too many thousand
37:40need to project far too many people at
37:42once if he cut down his mozart to the
37:45sound say of a clavichord and played for
37:48three friends then that might produce
37:51insight and i suspect the same study for
37:55the pot for you presumably you have to
37:56turn down jobs that say will you sing a
37:58doubt and roots on unaccompanied in the
38:00Albert Hall yes I did have a lovely
38:04person actually who came and said I know
38:06you're booked to sing in a really
38:08beautiful Hall which is it was some in
38:11Milford and your book scene in our Hall
38:14and it's a lunchtime concert it's
38:16already sold out and I'm under pressure
38:18to move it into the church where you
38:20sang moats up last week the week last
38:23year what do you think I said it's not
38:27going to work he's so glad you said that
38:30he really didn't want to have to do it I
38:33think that there's you you can obviously
38:36you do sometimes have to create your own
38:38your own domestic feeling wherever you
38:40are and try and draw people in but there
38:42is a limit to how far you can go with
38:44that
38:45well this is this is a congenial
38:48capacity sighs so sewing on to the field
38:52again should we just since you've
38:53described the the Oh bother
38:56yes this might be an opportunity to yes
39:06here it is it was invented in Italy and
39:09it was originally taking a base loot the
39:13largest loot and this idea of the
39:16extended neck came later but the main
39:18point about the Theo burr is to do with
39:20it reentrant tuning so the six strings
39:23that you play most of the music on
39:28tuned in a so-called reentrant tuning
39:31the two top strings have been dropped
39:33and octave and then Newham just to scale
39:39down there for the long strings and the
39:43man who invented it was Alessandro
39:46Puccini he he thought now how can I make
39:49a lute sound with stronger base and the
39:52first attempt was he made a very big
39:53instrument like this and he had one
39:56bridge here and another bridge down here
39:59to make the long days and that turned
40:01out to be impossible to play so he came
40:04up with this idea which is impossible to
40:06tune so what should we stop do you want
40:14to do the person do you want to go
40:20straight to them leave into it I think
40:23that's just to learn on there actually
40:24shall cook it right yeah so we're
40:27actually going to start with sort of
40:29what might be the absolute minimum
40:31experiences with you although the first
40:32few bars it's the most amazing bass line
40:35ever Jake it shows you you'll hear how
40:40extraordinary it is this is this is this
40:43is LAN Anna yes this just use kiss
40:48that's the baseline is
40:50[Music]
40:56it's a lullaby it's the Virgin lulling
41:00Jesus to sleep and saying please you
41:05must sleep now and you mustn't cry
41:07because there'll be plenty reason to cry
41:10later it's a lot of irony in its you
41:13know it's it's it's enchanting and in
41:15cred and and bleak and and beautiful
41:18it's also a lullaby it takes a long time
41:21and I'm afraid we have very naughty
41:23leave we're giving you a kind of
41:25impression of it we've made a little
41:26tuck in the middle and actually I think
41:30the thing about lullabies I don't know
41:31if anybody's found this but I was given
41:34a lovely CD of beautiful lullabies by a
41:36young friend and each one was two
41:38minutes long and then there was another
41:40one I said couldn't you put them on a
41:42loop because actually you really want to
41:44get a baby to go so that you have to
41:45repeat things you have to hear the same
41:47thing many many times otherwise they
41:49weren't they'll get woken up by the new
41:50one each time in this case and the the
41:54hypnotic thing is the baseline but it is
41:57it's the proper lullaby and that's
41:59really by the end the baby has fallen
42:02asleep as you will hear and she says
42:04having having mused about what's going
42:09to happen and the fear of things she
42:11then says well at the end now he's
42:13asleep what do I do all I can do is just
42:15watch and and revere him
42:20[Music]
42:41taught me do or die
42:47[Music]
43:20[Music]
43:41there get tossed off me
43:46[Music]
44:14[Music]
44:24[Music]
44:39[Music]
44:48[Music]
45:02[Music]
45:21[Music]
45:47[Music]
45:53ah
46:24you
46:25[Music]
46:56[Music]
47:14[Applause]
47:17the questions you will need a microphone
47:20to speak into which is available
47:22somewhere is the screw yes here comes
47:26right here we had one question yes
47:34that's it how do you go about
47:41ornamentation um I think one learns that
47:46by osmosis as well actually
47:47ornamentation I think it's a singer I
47:51mean that there are treatises one or two
47:54which have page after page how to
47:56ornament a tone how to warn them into
47:58third and you look at all this and your
48:01eyes glaze over and you can have a go at
48:04it but actually I don't know the
48:06cheating thing in the sense is just to
48:07listen and hear what what
48:08instrumentalists do what happens how the
48:10composer's ornamented his own repeats I
48:13don't know it's sort of soaks in I also
48:15find that I mean like with focusing as I
48:17think that melodies today if you sing
48:21them over you you find yourself singing
48:22a melody it starts to change in your in
48:24your subconscious and I find that I wake
48:27up with ornaments sometimes you know I'm
48:29working on a piece and and I just sing
48:32it to I find I'm singing it and I
48:33suddenly realize that there's been a
48:35change I think it's it's very difficult
48:39to know where to start you just have to
48:41jump in and hope for the best
48:42really and listen a lot and just imitate
48:46until until things don't fit super and
48:48also I mean I do think you have to have
48:51a lot of nerve if if you're not prepared
48:54to get egg on your face you probably
48:55never be able to start I had somebody in
49:00a class recently who refused although it
49:03was meant to be training in baroque
49:05ornamentation she refused to take any
49:08risk because she said she was a
49:10perfectionist and she wasn't going to do
49:12anything in case it went wrong so this
49:14is I thought this was absolutely the
49:16wrong way to approach ornamentation that
49:18you you surely go in in for it in a not
49:23too public setting to begin with as you
49:26say
49:27with with the risk of falling flat on
49:29your face frightens this is the toons
49:30isn't it how to how to make amazing toon
49:32where there was something else before
49:34but catchy knee who you know was the
49:361601 was sort of the real first person
49:39to put it all down and show singers and
49:42how to start I mean that there were a
49:44few other things but he's so practical I
49:46mean he's got an ornament for the read
49:48the secret retaking of the breath I mean
49:50how wonderful is that you've got you've
49:52got the long note before the cadence
49:54you're supposed to do something with it
49:55and you're running out of breath anyway
49:58to go oh you know he he begins with how
50:07to ornament a single note you know you
50:09can do the mess Olivo chill you can be
50:11oh oh oh you know oh you can do the S
50:15clemency Oh Neely admitted you vote you
50:17all these different things then he
50:18starts telling you about tunes so I
50:20think in a way to look at the absolute
50:22basic thing first and see how many ways
50:26you could you could feel a note and and
50:28why are you going to ornament that note
50:30well because of what was it saying you
50:32know if it's ice finishing it one way
50:34and if it's flame another so a lot of
50:36anuman tation actually comes from the
50:38words and from speaking the words one
50:40way or another there may be a bit of
50:42clever composition involved and probably
50:44the won't be but it I still think that
50:46all mentation is is much more than just
50:48notes you can read on a page it's it's
50:51it's all sorts of unnoticeable things as
50:53well I think sometimes having having a
50:55sense sort of analytical sense of what
50:58is ornamentation in in the music as
51:00written yeah because not all the little
51:03notes in what you just sang were your
51:05invention hmm they were they were there
51:06but often people think ornaments are
51:09something that are not on the page when
51:13in fact the composer often provides you
51:15with a piece containing ornamental
51:18passage work which can give you a great
51:20period of what more you might do yes
51:23but I quite agree springing from the
51:25words and being ex temporary it's a very
51:28funny situation nowadays in Baroque
51:30music I find if you do a Handel opera
51:33the one thing that requires endless
51:36rehearsal and is liable to go wrong in
51:38every performance will be those cadenza
51:41moments which were in the past
51:43traditionally the places that were done
51:45extemporary
51:46and nowadays because people come along
51:49with their fully written out cadenzas
51:51and and have certain you know requests
51:54that they make of the conductor in the
51:55orchestra to do things not as notated
51:58they take all your Rinna's I have to
52:01make that's my rule of thumb actually if
52:03I baffle the continuer with a cadenza
52:05then I give it up if I can I can deliver
52:09it so they know where I'm going then
52:11that's alright another question from
52:14someone
52:24I know the importance who placed on
52:27engaging the whole body while singing
52:29and also that you've been singing
52:30sitting down I want well a parent
52:34singing a lullaby over a cot wouldn't be
52:36very soothing for either party do we
52:38know historically whether people see
52:40into the lute did sit or stand and I
52:43think both actually probably but the
52:46nice thing about the lute pertick
52:47particularly with wealth and feel this
52:49is a little bit different because it can
52:51be louder and it can go into the
52:53background more while people do
52:55histrionic things as you say the lullaby
52:56was a special case anyway but with with
52:59the ten-course lutes and they in
53:00beautifully composed accompaniments not
53:04not Jacobs version but Darlins version
53:07of something I love to sing on the same
53:10plane as the lute I don't want to be
53:12coming from a different place so I will
53:15always try and get that which means
53:17sometimes if we're in a big church where
53:19I know I've got to stand because
53:20otherwise my face won't be seen and I'd
53:22really don't think I can communicate
53:23without that I was sometimes standing
53:26and beg for a little pedestal podium for
53:30that for the lute player so but then
53:31he's raised up and he's still on the
53:32same level as when I stand so I just I
53:35like to keep that plane level if I can
53:37with this with with the really beautiful
53:41duo and style of the balloon stone
53:45proper when it comes to continue apart
53:47that's a little bit different and the
53:49CEO is such a lovely round sander you
53:52know if you can I could stand in yell
53:55and still in no way over balance with
53:59your boat so there's more freedom there
54:03to demonstrate this but maybe there
54:07affects the fax images of the original
54:09books the people sang from show that the
54:13the format of printing for a Dowlen song
54:18was was for people around a table with
54:20the music facing forward so Jacob and I
54:24would have been sitting this side of the
54:25table and we'd be playing I'd be singing
54:28and he'd be playing from there and then
54:30if you want four-part version lieutenant
54:32would sit here and the bass there and
54:34the
54:34here it's really economical and lovely
54:37for ensemble maybe one more questions
54:43before some final final music thank you
54:59following on your remark about taking
55:04risks I'm going to take a risk actually
55:06in this company of people who are so
55:11great in the earlier music but it does
55:14seem to me that sometimes great
55:19composers like Bach for example
55:21Beethoven particularly Mozart to some
55:25degree were almost writing ahead of
55:28their time and actually might want her
55:33to break broken from the constraints of
55:36the more limited instruments that they
55:39had I'm not suggesting that your
55:41instrument is limited but early pianos
55:45so on so it seems to me that one needs
55:49to be a bit careful about that
55:51complaining about a too schmaltzy
55:55interpretation of some composers because
55:59that's what perhaps they were reaching
56:00for I don't know as we were risking mine
56:04I think I think the risks that we're
56:08asking composers and performers to take
56:11are construed from a performance point
56:13of view probably should stay within the
56:16boundaries of the composers world but
56:18it's true that composers pressed the
56:21envelope and but there's no composer I
56:24know of who ever wrote for a
56:25non-existent instrument for instance so
56:28they they wrote for an instrument or for
56:30voices available to them stretch them to
56:33their limit and when that limit was
56:36reached the maker took his cue and
56:39expanded the instrument mate and they
56:41said great I can now
56:44my piano sonatas bigger and bigger I can
56:46now ask for a voice that fills a larger
56:49and larger perhaps and whether you can
56:51backdate that tendency and say that
56:53before they reach that that state of
56:56having that they were in their
56:59imagination asking for that sorting is
57:02philosophically very difficult to to
57:05support I think and certainly from the
57:08performers point of view unless the
57:11composer has given an adequate
57:13instruction for performance most
57:16composers do do give pretty good
57:18instruction in the the page increasingly
57:20so as music went through 18th 19th
57:24century they told you what what they
57:26wanted as well as what they didn't want
57:28and whether which it one should overstep
57:31those marks and is a very moot point and
57:34comes down often to question of taste
57:36and how far you you feel you know like
57:40American symphony orchestras used to
57:41feel one size fits all my feeling about
57:44music is that one size really fits all
57:46and as Emma was saying to get to the
57:50gist of work it is unique in its
57:54requirements and its instrumentation and
57:56its words if you can capture that and
58:00still give a full performance that that
58:04doesn't seem to be lacking anything I
58:06think that's a considerable achievement
58:08rather than poaching on the territory of
58:11another composer and saying this Dowell
58:14and song doesn't seem to be going very
58:15well let's sing it as though it was
58:17Tchaikovsky and see see whether it
58:20blossoms I think you would probably hit
58:22more minds in that minefield so you
58:26would solve staying within within the
58:31band but it beautifully I think we have
58:33time since we're nearly up to our mark
58:35now losing maybe a closing piece and as
58:37I say this is the last lecture of this
58:40set of six next year we start on a
58:44similar form of programming called what
58:48makes the masterpiece I forget the exact
58:50date when we begin but no doubt it will
58:52all be on the internet and and published
58:55and again because I think this is a very
58:57nice form
58:58of having live musicians on this stage I
59:01will try in the next six lectures to
59:04have at least three topics for which we
59:07can have live illustration and
59:10question-and-answer with performers
59:11which after all is the the business of
59:14music making and for the moment thank
59:17you very much to get up and to Emma for
59:20this final program this year thank you
59:23will do it's very brief but great fun
59:25and it's Purcell playing around with the
59:28ground bass sort of came from Italy so
59:30it's quite a good move from the from the
59:32middle learn and under in a way he's at
59:35the other end of the century of course
59:36and he's famous for his grounds and this
59:39one's it's the Italian cha corner anyway
59:42so it's very cheerful it's a poem by
59:45Abraham Cowley and it's some probably
59:48not suitable for a woman to sing but who
59:49cares
59:50it's someone who has set about seducing
59:53someone and thought he'd made it and
59:55then found that other was getting in the
59:57way so then he thought okay well those
1:00:01things you know that those things are
1:00:04are they they move in daylight those
1:00:12things so why did I try at nighttime
1:00:15maybe I'll get
1:00:17[Music]
1:00:34[Music]
1:00:46[Music]
1:00:48what's this we got old honest at our
1:00:58mitigate but what here it kappa to it hi
1:01:05so this phantom nothing stalking shake
1:01:15my what witchcraft would donate now
1:01:19empty I shall read my
1:01:43tops QUT harder secrecy
1:01:48[Music]
1:02:00[Music]