Full transcript
0:00Welcome to the Gen Gap, where
0:02time-tested leadership meets the demands
0:04of a new generation. I'm Moren
0:06Fitzgerald, your host, bringing candid
0:08conversations with industry
0:10heavyweights. Together, we unpack how
0:12they are rethinking talent, culture, and
0:14leadership in the face of generational
0:17transition, AI disruption, and the rise
0:19of personal brand dominance. Today's
0:22guest is Dan Lagen, CEO and CIO of
0:26Congress Asset Management. With a career
0:28spanning over three decades at the firm,
0:30Dan has helped shape the strategic
0:32direction, investment philosophy, and
0:34cultural evolution, guiding Congress
0:36from a small team to a nationally
0:37recognized asset manager. Dan shares how
0:40bold decisions from spinning off
0:41divisions to acquisitions reshaped the
0:43firm's culture and positioned it for
0:45long-term growth. Before stepping into
0:47leadership, Dan began his career as an
0:49auditor at Price Waterhouse and as a CFA
0:52charter holder. Dan shares his
0:54perspective on leadership, legacy, and
0:55navigating change. It is a pleasure to
0:58welcome Dan to the show.
1:05>> Dan, thank you so much for being here
1:07today.
1:08>> Hi, Moren. My pleasure. I I appreciate
1:10you having me.
1:11>> Well, let's dive right in. Uh, what is
1:14the boldest leadership move you've made
1:17and how did it reshape your team or
1:19culture?
1:20So there's really been two very bold
1:22moves I think that we made over the last
1:24say 15 years that forced a change in
1:27culture. One was we closed a a part of
1:33our business which was a trust company
1:35which is very
1:37a very precise thing that you have to do
1:39and has a lot of regulations and so
1:41forth. And what we did is we took the
1:43head of that division or the head of
1:46that part of our business, the trust
1:47company, and set him off on his own. And
1:50we incentivized him, even though we
1:52still own it, to grow that business. And
1:54he was very successful in doing that.
1:56And over the years earned his way to
2:00owning the majority of it. And that
2:02changed our culture because it opened up
2:05a whole new or I should say hyper
2:10put into hyperrowth our high net worth
2:12part of our business. So going direct to
2:14clients with help which helped uh
2:18diversify us away from just the
2:19institutional business and other
2:21distribution channels that we had. So it
2:23was really good for us for a a great
2:27number of years. And then the second one
2:30was in 2017,
2:32we bought a company that uh had very
2:36similar to ours but much smaller and
2:38that had a mutual fund which we were
2:41trying to start. We were trying to start
2:43a small cap growth mutual fund. They had
2:46one and we they also had a large cap
2:49growth fund which we had. So it was very
2:51strategic. uh they they were in a
2:53position where they needed to partner
2:55with someone and the way we saw it as
2:58was it got us two or three things. It
3:01got us some people that we needed and it
3:03got us further in the large cap growth
3:06space and the small cap growth space. So
3:08it was a it was a transformative
3:09acquisition and we still have two of the
3:12people that came over with that
3:13acquisition here with us now and they're
3:15instrumental in our investment process.
3:19>> Wow, that's excellent. and what are some
3:22of the the most pressing challenges that
3:24you're facing when it comes to retaining
3:27and engaging your younger employees?
3:30>> So, I I think this is probably not
3:32unique to us. We have a challenge in
3:37that we've grown quite a bit. So, we've
3:38doubled in the last five years as far as
3:40our assets go. And so, we've had to hire
3:43people and bring them in, as you might
3:44imagine, to help
3:46>> develop the staff and and serve our
3:49clients. And I I would say it's getting
3:53the culture ingrained with our people.
3:57And there's two sets of people as I look
3:59at that. There's people we hired during
4:01COVID who during the co era who are are
4:05used to working from home. And then now
4:07we have a three-day at work in the
4:10office, but you pick the three days and
4:13we encourage more, but it's typically
4:14three and it's not everyone at the same
4:16time. And so getting people to accept
4:19that is one thing, but also getting them
4:21to see the culture is another thing
4:22because they're not used to being in the
4:24office. And then there's people we've
4:26hired since then who will be in the
4:28office more. They'll be in four days a
4:31week or sometimes five, but we don't
4:33have everyone here at one time. So the
4:35informal
4:37water cooler talk, spontaneous lunches,
4:42spontaneous outings don't happen. they
4:44don't happen as frequently and they're
4:46not as easy. And so understanding people
4:49who have been here a while and newer
4:51people, it it's more difficult to get
4:54the flow of communication going and just
4:57the the understanding of what we're
4:59trying to accomplish. So that's that's a
5:01real struggle which we try to do with
5:03some formal things but also try to do
5:04with informal things.
5:07So that is the tough thing is you can
5:09bring people to work but are they
5:10actually
5:12working as if they would at home or are
5:14they walking around and meeting people
5:15and trying to kind of get some learnings
5:18done?
5:19>> Yes. I I would say one of the things
5:21that
5:23is always kind of different to me is is
5:26wearing headphones in the office or
5:28wearing earbuds in the office because it
5:30just to me it's like where's the hello?
5:33Hello, how are you? You know, you don't
5:34know if you're disturbing something.
5:36Yeah.
5:38And so what is a moment of generational
5:40tension that made you rethink how you
5:43lead?
5:46>> So as we've grown, we've had to do a few
5:50things. And about a year ago, we were
5:52looking at bringing in some outside
5:54resources, some people that could help
5:56us serve clients better with skill sets
5:59that we didn't have. And this is an
6:02unstated tension. No one ever said
6:04anything, but me and a few of my
6:06management team, we started looking at
6:08what we had and what we were trying to
6:11the needs we were trying to fill for.
6:13And we we stopped and we all took a
6:15break and just looked at it and said,
6:16"We have some people here who are
6:19mid-career or younger career who have
6:21these skill sets that we're looking for
6:23or can develop them." So we went through
6:25a wave of of promotions
6:28uh to recognize what these younger folks
6:32talent level is and what we think they
6:34can grow into rather than hiring from
6:37the outside and either way would have
6:38been I think disruptive but the
6:40promotion was disruptive too because not
6:42everyone understood why we were doing
6:44it. So it's a lot of communicating of
6:46why we need to make these changes now
6:50because of what we want the company to
6:52be in five years, seven years and 10
6:54years. So we need to do these things in
6:56advance.
6:57So that was that created some tension uh
7:01both with people who had been here a
7:04while and and people who had not. But I
7:06think it's worked out pretty well.
7:08So in that scenario, the people that
7:10were offered opportunities probably
7:12appreciated it, but others that were not
7:14offered were concerned about it. Or was
7:16it the more senior people that thought
7:18that there should be that sort of
7:20maintain that hierarchy?
7:22>> Well, it it it changed the workflow a
7:26little bit. So it's not so much the
7:28hierarchy, but we were re redefining
7:32certain people's roles and taking some
7:34things from them and giving them to
7:35others and encouraging these others to
7:38be more vocal and to learn more and to
7:41do more. And yeah, some people look at
7:44that and and might see it as a threat or
7:45might not understand why we are thinking
7:48like that. But the whole the whole
7:50reason we were and are is because the
7:53next five, seven, ten years, we need to
7:54have the next leg of people to come in
7:57and and take over and ensure consistency
8:00and sustainability for our clients.
8:04>> And so you're touching upon some folks
8:06that had the skill set but maybe needed
8:09some growth. Um, how are how are you
8:11managing their training and and making
8:14sure they're getting to where you need
8:15them to get to? Yeah, it's a good
8:16question because we don't have huge
8:19training programs here. We're we have
8:21about 70 employees now, but we've never
8:23had big training programs. So, it's very
8:26much sitting down and a lot of
8:28communicating about what we're trying to
8:30do and what we need to do. One thing
8:32that's very helpful in that is that
8:35technology is so much different now than
8:36it was five or 10 years ago that we all
8:40have to learn the technology or the
8:42software that we're using to manage
8:44portfolios or do research and they can
8:47pick that up quicker than I can or
8:50others can. So, it's very helpful from
8:52that perspective to help bring them
8:54along in the training process. But it's
8:56really a lot of communication. It's if
8:59there's certain
9:01skills that they need, maybe speaking
9:03skills and so forth, we can bring in a
9:05speaking coach, a speech coach or
9:06something like that. So, it's very
9:08pointed on what we're trying to do.
9:12>> So, let's take a step back and I'd love
9:14to hear about your career journey and
9:15how you ended up as CIO of Congress
9:17Asset Management.
9:19>> Yeah. So, it goes back a long way. So,
9:23uh my father started Congress Asset
9:25Management in 1985. So, I first heard
9:28about it when I was a sophomore in
9:29college. I was in the basement of our
9:32house and we were playing pool and he
9:33said, "Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna leave."
9:35He was at a a big mutual fund house and
9:38start my own company and so forth. So,
9:40you finished school. We'll see what we
9:42do. So, he started his own company and
9:45Congress asset with a partner and I
9:48ended up eventually after two years in
9:50public accounting starting here. here. I
9:52did not come right out of college and
9:53back then we had four or five employees.
9:56So I started reconciling. This is when
9:59we would paper reconcile accounts mainly
10:02institutional accounts but all accounts
10:03that we had and I was very good at
10:05reconciling because I was an accounting
10:07major and accountant by trade. So I
10:09could reconcile all the accounts at
10:11month end paper reconcile and do
10:13operations. And then
10:16during that time I also got my MBA and
10:18we expanded somewhat and we needed
10:21research. So I was in the research area
10:23and then as we grew out and hired other
10:25people and increased our distribution
10:28channels was kind of a natural
10:30progression to be portfolio manager and
10:33then to be president and then chief
10:35investment officer. So it was really
10:38very natural and and
10:42took a long time but it was it just felt
10:44very seamless.
10:47So you're touching upon going from you
10:49know five employees to 70 over that time
10:53you naturally get further away from
10:56maybe some of the younger generation. H
10:58how are you building trust across the
11:00entire team? So trust I think no matter
11:04it's a younger generation or older
11:06generation is all about honesty and
11:08hopefully transparency as transparent as
11:10one can be. But I have found that it
11:14it's much better to just be very frank
11:16and candid in all things and and
11:20sometimes that can be a struggle because
11:21sometimes if people need improvement on
11:24something it's hard to tell them that at
11:25least it is for me is necessary but it's
11:27really very much being honesty honesty
11:29and transparency and saying this is
11:31where we want to be. This is how I
11:34envision us getting there. Whether it
11:36can work or not is another thing.
11:39And do you have um sort of a cadence of
11:42meetings or off-sites where you
11:44communicate what's going on at the firm?
11:47>> We have a cadence of meetings uh
11:50regularly on a weekly basis at certain
11:53different levels. So a companywide
11:55meeting which is generally fast or quick
11:58and then we have some other we have
12:00regularly regular investment meetings uh
12:03and we have others. We did have a big
12:05comp uh investment group offsite last
12:09February March time frame which was
12:10three days which was very good. That's
12:12the first time we've done that in a
12:14while. But we do have a pretty regular
12:16cadence of trying to bring together the
12:19heads of certain department as well so
12:21that the communication level between
12:24everybody can can flow freely.
12:29And have you had to unlearn something
12:31that you thought was foundational to
12:33being a good leader?
12:36>> Yeah. So, I think leadership comes in so
12:38many different forms and the leadership
12:40skills everyone has and talents is so
12:42different. So, I don't know that I've
12:45had to unlearn things specifically, but
12:47I've definitely had to learn
12:50how to deal
12:53with situations differently, whether
12:55because the size of the company we are
12:57or the people I'm dealing with or
13:00basically my own development. So, how I
13:02deal with things has changed over the
13:05years based on a lot of that. What what
13:07is our what are we trying to accomplish?
13:09What's involved? how big is we how big
13:12is the issue and how much do I know so
13:15the further I am the the away from
13:18something the more other people have to
13:20be involved so whether especially on
13:22technology say I I don't have a
13:25technology background so understanding
13:27what we need to do and so forth really
13:29has to draw in other people so uh that's
13:34all caused changes in how I have to
13:37think about leadership and what I have
13:39to do to get us to the next level.
13:42>> And so how has that changed over time
13:46your leadership style or has it?
13:49>> Oh, it definitely has. I I am uh
13:53more collaborative
13:55on many things. Uh but I have found that
13:59I also have to be more defi decisive on
14:01certain things and be much clearer and
14:05not leave things for others
14:08interpretation. And that can happen and
14:11in fact it does happen more than I'd
14:13like even now but I know it when it
14:16happens I'm like ah I made a mistake I
14:18shouldn't have done that I should have I
14:19I have to be clearer on that and that is
14:22something uh that has changed I I don't
14:24think I would have taken those
14:27as strong approaches 10 years ago or
14:30even seven years ago
14:32>> and do you have a support system in the
14:35company that you can you know as use as
14:37sounding boards for when you're trying
14:38to make decisions or do you feel kind of
14:41all the decisions are coming up to you?
14:43>> No, we have a I think we have a pretty
14:44good sounding board uh system. We have a
14:46lot of experienced people. Uh I have two
14:49of my brothers who work with me. So, uh
14:52they are involved in in any big decision
14:55we have. So, that's always good. But I
14:57also bring in people that have been here
14:59a long time or even people who are just
15:02versed in a situation that I think I
15:05need help on. So I got here in 1989 as I
15:09mentioned but what one Greg O'Keefe has
15:11been here since 1986 or late 1985 so
15:15he's got great institutional knowledge
15:17and we have a lot of other people who
15:19have experience both in Congress asset
15:22and outside Congress asset and having
15:25been here for so long and my prior
15:28experience being in a public accounting
15:30firm it's very helpful to get insight
15:34and and input from people who have
15:37worked at other investment management
15:38companies because they understand the
15:40flow maybe a little bit differently than
15:43I do. So I use that group mainly senior
15:46people quite a bit to bounce ideas off
15:49of.
15:51>> And so as you look into the future um
15:55where are you focused from a business
15:57markets employee perspective? What are
16:00what are the kind of strategic u goals?
16:04So our our big push right now is we have
16:08seven equity products that we distribute
16:10and we have a number of fixed income
16:12products. So we have a pretty good
16:14product suite as as I like to say and we
16:16have a pretty good distribution network.
16:18So we're not tied to one distribution
16:20network here or there. So our push right
16:23now or at least my goals over the next
16:27three or four years is to make sure that
16:30our investment process itself is
16:33repeatable and sustainable and it has
16:35been for 40 years but the market changes
16:38our tools change right so what we use to
16:40make decision changes and the markets
16:43themselves change so we're in a very
16:46unique time period right now with big
16:48tech as as everyone knows just charging
16:51ahead artificial articial intelligence,
16:53software as a service, all these things.
16:55And we have to stay adaptable to these
16:58things. And so what I am trying to
17:01accomplish or we're trying to accomplish
17:03is making sure that we stay true to
17:07where got us to where we are, which I
17:08call an established growth philosophy,
17:11but also adaptable enough to meet where
17:14our clients want us to be. And that is
17:17that is really when you get right down
17:19to the the recipe there, the baking, it
17:22it's the investment process and making
17:24sure our committee structure is solid
17:27and strong and has enough uh support
17:31both from the chair of each committee to
17:34all the analysts that support it that in
17:36the next five, seven, 10 years, we're
17:38still delivering what our clients expect
17:40us to deliver.
17:42>> Okay.
17:44So, switching gears a little bit, um,
17:47what piece of advice would you give
17:48yourself at the start of your career?
17:51>> So, it's interesting, as I mentioned, I
17:53started as a a public accountant and I
17:56got out of college and I knew how to
17:58work. That wasn't an issue, but I was
18:00very uncomfortable as as a public
18:02accountant, as an auditor back then. You
18:06are going over people's books and you're
18:08asking them questions. And so I would be
18:11sent to ask people questions and I'd be
18:13sent to ask an account an internal
18:16accountant at a company why they made a
18:18certain entry or what this meant. And
18:21and then I' I'd write all this up. At
18:23the time it was on your working papers.
18:25You write it in pencil. And my senior
18:27who was my superior would review it. And
18:29he'd always write things like why or
18:32what is this about? So it got me
18:34thinking, okay, you have to ask the why.
18:36And I think
18:39I didn't do that enough earlier in my
18:41career. And it it is so necessary both
18:43early in your career to understand the
18:45why you're doing something. And even
18:47now, even now I can be susceptible as as
18:50others can be to uh a response of of why
18:53something happened. Why did this trade
18:55not settle or why did this happen? And
18:57you get an answer like okay and they say
18:59wait a second that doesn't make sense.
19:01Why? That doesn't tell me the why
19:02something happened. And so I think
19:05understanding that all gets to
19:07understanding
19:10why you're doing what you're doing.
19:12understanding the reason that you're
19:15undertaking a certain role or a certain
19:18process or a procedure rather than just
19:21doing it because things change and
19:23things are changing all the time and
19:25there's always usually better ways to do
19:27things and so not understanding why
19:30we're doing something I think is very
19:32very important. So I think from early on
19:36I I learned how to do that in the
19:38auditing stage, but I think it's very
19:40important in all stages of of my
19:43business career.
19:45>> That's great advice because I do think
19:47um particularly if you're a younger
19:49employee, you may be intimidated to ask
19:51the question, but you're at the place in
19:52your career where you should be asking
19:54as many questions and learning as much
19:55as you can at that point so that you can
19:58continue to progress. So that's really
20:00good advice.
20:01>> Yeah, I think you're right. And I think
20:03it's understanding even if you have
20:05experience, you come into a company, you
20:06can offer
20:09alternative ways of looking at things if
20:11you understand the re the reason we do
20:14something the way we do.
20:17>> Well, that leads me to my final
20:18question. What legacy would you like to
20:21leave as a leader in the industry?
20:24Well, we've been around for 40 years and
20:26I think our reputation is pretty good as
20:28a as as a money manager as as delivering
20:32what
20:33we say we're going to deliver for our
20:36clients. So, as I look at the next 10 to
20:3920 years, I would like us to build on
20:42that and to broaden that and strengthen
20:46what our reputation is and say, "Okay,
20:48Congress asset manages for the long
20:50term. this is what they look to do and
20:53this has been their experience. They're
20:55responsive. They understand what we
20:57need. Uh they they understand how to get
21:00us what we need and they're there when
21:02there's questions or or we need help. So
21:05I would like our reputation really to
21:08expand and improve and hopefully we can
21:11do that as we grow the business. So
21:13we're we're you know about 23 billion in
21:16assets under management. But it's not so
21:18much the assets under management. It's
21:19the doing what the clients expect that
21:22matters. And if we can continue to do
21:24what we've done for a number of years as
21:28forces array against us, whether it's
21:30technology or market or what have you,
21:33then I think we will be successful out
21:365, 10, 20 years, which is what I would
21:38like to see.
21:41Well, Dan, thank you so much for being
21:42on today. I really appreciate your time.
21:45>> Well, my pleasure, Marine. Thank you
21:46very much.