The Money Making Expert: The 7,11,4 Hack That Turns $1 Into $10K Per Month! Daniel Priestley

0:00In order to be successful, you need to

0:01know that people have a small number of

0:03slots in their brain for who they

0:05remember. So, you've got to get into

0:06people's head. And in order to do that,

0:08you need to know two things. The first

0:09one is 7-11-4, which we'll talk about.

0:12And the second thing is that your brain

0:13is extremely good at deleting messages.

0:15But there's five things that will not be

0:17deleted by the brain. And the last two

0:18are the ones that are most useful. So,

0:20the first one is six.

0:21I wish I knew this stuff at the start of

0:23my career. Daniel Priestley is the

0:24money-making expert and serial

0:26entrepreneur who's built several

0:27multi-million-dollar businesses from

0:29nothing and has mentored over 3,500

0:31businesses with the same frameworks for

0:33career success that you're about to

0:34learn. The problem that we have now is

0:36that we live in a digital world, but all

0:38of society is built for the industrial

0:39revolution system, which means that

0:41we're playing by an old set of rules and

0:42going through a schooling system that is

0:44preparing them for a world that no

0:45longer exists. So, people feel like that

0:47there are no opportunities, there are no

0:48safe jobs anymore, feeling like you're

0:50in competition with AI, and that leaves

0:52a whole generation of people feeling

0:54absolutely wiped out before they've even

0:55started.

0:56So, what are the new set of skills

0:57people need to know to set them up in

0:58this digital world? Well, there's

1:00actually a step-by-step approach to

1:01doing that, including building a

1:02personal brand. Okay, let's pause there.

1:04Why does that matter? Cuz that's the key

1:05to capital, talent, customers. And it's

1:08not about becoming an influencer with

1:09millions of followers. But if you're

1:11seen as a key person of influence,

1:12that's enough to make seven figures. And

1:14is that where your five P's come in?

1:16Yeah, and I'll take you through all of

1:17those. And then there's the

1:18entrepreneurial pyramid, which opens you

1:20up to this whole other world of

1:21opportunities as well as side hustles

1:23and the two types of opportunities that

1:25everyone needs to know about. I want to

1:27go through all of that.

1:28Let's do it.

1:32This has always blown my mind a little

1:33bit. 53% of you that listen to this show

1:36regularly haven't yet subscribed to this

1:38show. So, could I ask you for a favor

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1:49everything in my power, me and my team,

1:51to make sure that this show is better

1:52for you every single week. We'll listen

1:54to your feedback, we'll find the guests

1:56that you want me to speak to, and we'll

1:58continue to do what we do. Thank you so

1:59much.

2:03Daniel Priestley.

2:05How'd you

2:07define and describe what it is that you

2:09do with your content, with your work, um

2:12and through all of these books that

2:13you've published? What is the summary of

2:15what you do and who you do it for?

2:17So, I have a massive passion for

2:19entrepreneurship. About 20 years ago, I

2:21started seeing a massive trend uh about

2:24entrepreneurs who could stand out, scale

2:26up, and make a positive impact in the

2:27world through business.

2:29Um I have built multiple businesses over

2:31the last 20 years, and I'm just uh

2:33fascinated by the predictable stages

2:35that people go through in order to build

2:37successful businesses. Um as I've been

2:40growing my businesses, I've been writing

2:41about it in my books, um mostly to

2:43document what I'm learning myself. Um

2:46and I also built a community of

2:47entrepreneurs who wanted to uh

2:49essentially make the most of the times

2:51that we're in.

2:52So, what's happening at the moment is

2:53we're going through massive amounts of

2:55change. It's very similar to the

2:56agricultural age, when it was replaced

2:59by the industrial age, and there were

3:00new economic rules that didn't apply to

3:03the agricultural age, but did apply to

3:05the industrial age. So, the agricultural

3:07age was the feudal system, and the

3:08industrial age was the capitalist

3:10system. What's happening is the

3:11industrial age is fast being replaced by

3:13the digital age.

3:15And as we go through this massive

3:16change, we're seeing new rules and new

3:19economic rules that apply. So, give an

3:21example. In the industrial age, people

3:24had to to become successful, people had

3:27to gain skills, and then get a job and

3:30find an employer who would uh employ

3:32them for those skills.

3:33As we go into the digital age, what

3:35works is to build a personal brand based

3:37on your unique intellectual property,

3:39and then to position that brand next to

3:41a scalable digital uh elegant business

3:44model. And those who are doing that, and

3:46those who have figured that out, are

3:47doing incredibly well and succeeding at

3:49speed. And there's actually a

3:51step-by-step approach for doing that. I

3:53want to go through all of that. I am I

3:54was running in Cape Town. Look at me

3:56plugging my running brand that's lasted

3:57for 5 days. Um I was running in Cape

4:00Town and a young couple came up to me at

4:02the end of my run when I'd stopped uh

4:03running at underneath this tree and they

4:06came to me it was about the 2nd or 3rd

4:08of January. They said um "Steve, we love

4:10your content. We've been listening to

4:11Diary of a CEO for a while." And they

4:12looked at each other and you could see

4:13that they were really stressed and they

4:14said, "We're just trying to figure out

4:16how to start a business and what we

4:18should be doing." And I could see in

4:19their face that they'd been mulling it

4:21for a long, long time. There was this

4:23like they're very, very young. I'd say

4:24they were like 21 years old and they

4:26were saying like, "What do we do?" And

4:28actually at that time I said, "You need

4:29to need to listen to an episode I did

4:30with Daniel Priestley." But I also knew

4:32you were coming on so I said, "And I'm

4:33recording with him shortly so make sure

4:34you listen to that." So through the lens

4:36of that 21-year-old, you've detailed

4:38that their world has now changed.

4:39They're living in this digital world.

4:42Where would you advise those two to

4:45start if they want to capitalize on the

4:47opportunity that's presented itself?

4:48Okay, so I'll slow down for a minute.

4:50What's happening at the moment is people

4:52in that situation they're feeling

4:54incredibly invisible um that they don't

4:57matter. They feel stuck that there are

5:00no opportunities. You can't buy a house,

5:02you can't get a career, uh there are no

5:04safe jobs anymore, um AI's disrupting

5:07everything um and they feel detached

5:09from meaning and purpose. And that

5:11leaves a whole generation of young

5:12people feeling absolutely wiped out

5:14before they've even started. It doesn't

5:17actually exclusively apply just to

5:18people in their 20s. I know people in

5:20their 40s, 50s, I know entrepreneurs who

5:22have traditional businesses who feel

5:24that way. So it's worth acknowledging

5:27that it's a widespread phenomenon.

5:29Everywhere in the world people feeling

5:30invisible, feeling the pain of like not

5:32being able to connect with the right

5:34people um and feeling stuck and feeling

5:36detached from meaning. So what we need

5:38to do is address that be- because what's

5:40happening is you're playing by an old

5:42set of rules and that's normal because

5:44the school system told you an old set of

5:46rules cuz it was based in the industrial

5:47age, and we have to start by learning

5:49the new set of rules.

5:51So, if I was advising 21-year-olds in

5:53particular,

5:54the first thing that you want to do is

5:55called an entrepreneur apprenticeship.

5:57Uh an entrepreneur apprenticeship is

5:59where you go and work in a small team of

6:02less than 12 people where you have

6:04direct contact with an entrepreneur, and

6:06in particular, you're looking for an

6:08entrepreneur who has somewhat of a

6:09personal brand. So, they have, let's

6:11say, 5,000 to 50,000 uh followers on

6:14social media. And they've got an elegant

6:16business model that inspires you. It

6:18doesn't necessarily have to be exactly

6:19what you want to do in the future, but

6:22you need to learn the new rules. So, you

6:23need to learn how is that person

6:25building their personal brand, and how

6:26are they building their business so that

6:28it can scale. How do they communicate

6:30with people anywhere in the world? How

6:32do they sell to people anywhere in the

6:33world? So, those are some of the key

6:34things that you have to do. You do not

6:36want to become an entrepreneur straight

6:37away. It's too big a shift. You need to

6:40be a number two. I was a number two. I

6:41had a mentor. I worked for an amazing

6:44guy for 2 years. Uh we went from zero to

6:466 million in a year, and from zero

6:48people to 60 people in 1 year. So, I got

6:51the entrepreneur apprenticeship first,

6:53and that's where you want to start. And

6:54then, once you do that, you can do side

6:56hustles, and then begin the

6:57entrepreneurial journey on your own.

7:00But how do you know if it's for you? How

7:01do you know if you're cut out for it?

7:03So, at the moment, what's happening is

7:05that the rules are changing so fast that

7:07you uh it's not like anyone's cut out

7:09for it, right? So, there is no sure

7:12feeling where you go, "Oh, I'm really

7:13cut out for this because it's giving me

7:15clear signals." During times of

7:16disruption, the signals get uh jammed.

7:19So, what's happening is people are going

7:22through a schooling system that is

7:24preparing them for a world that no

7:25longer exists.

7:26So, we go through 12 years of school,

7:28and it's saying, "Oh, you know, here's

7:30how you get ready for an employer."

7:31Well, there are no employers. And here's

7:32how you get ready for a career. There's

7:33no such thing as careers anymore. Um and

7:35here's how you get ready for a job. Oh,

7:37by the way, that job can easily be done

7:39by AI already. So, all of this is

7:41happening, and that means that people

7:43are feeling this void, and they're

7:44saying, "Well, I don't feel ready for

7:45anything." That's because you had 12

7:47years of training for a world that

7:48doesn't exist anymore. So, what we have

7:50to do is say,

7:52"All right, let's look at the world that

7:54is emerging, and let's position

7:56ourselves for that world, and reskill

7:58ourselves, and reposition ourselves for

7:59that world."

8:00When you were talking about that

8:01entrepreneurial apprenticeship, it

8:03sounded like a new form of education, a

8:06new form of university. Are there any

8:09other ways, if we're talking about that

8:10preparation phase, where you're getting

8:11ready, are there any other ways you

8:13would advise someone to rapidly excel

8:16their knowledge and skills in

8:18preparation to become an entrepreneur?

8:20Um is it books? Is it Do I sit on chat

8:23GPT? What worked for you? Books are

8:24great. YouTube channels are great. I

8:26didn't have any of that. Um you know,

8:28believe it or not, even books were hard

8:30to come by when I was a teenager. Um you

8:32know, you had to kind of order business

8:33books in, or you had to go to a big book

8:35store that had a business book section.

8:38Um we didn't have Amazon, and we

8:39certainly, you know, anything like a

8:40podcast, you actually paid for cassette

8:42tapes and CDs, and they were $1,000.

8:44They were really expensive just to

8:46listen to some business content. Believe

8:48it or not, that was a thing. Um

8:50and all of it's for free now, online.

8:53However,

8:54there's you can't learn to ride a bike

8:57uh through books and videos. You have to

8:59get on the bike. So, the best thing to

9:01do is to work for someone who's building

9:03a business, and if you can't do that,

9:05become a co-founder with someone who's

9:06got more experience than you. Um and if

9:09you can't do that, then you need to do

9:10some small side hustles. A side hustle

9:12is an open and shut business case. So,

9:14within 90 days, you're going to start

9:16something and finish something all

9:18within within 90 days. You're not going

9:19to get yourself into a long-term thing.

9:21You're just going to start something,

9:23see how it goes, and it ends in 90 days.

9:25When I was a teenager, I did nightclub

9:27parties. So, the nightclub party had a

9:30time where we would agree with the club

9:32that we were going to uh have the venue.

9:34Then we had a promotion phase, then we

9:36run the party, and then that was it. At

9:38the end of the night, we split the

9:39money, and that was the finish. And it

9:42all happened very quickly. And you get

9:44the learning experience, but you don't

9:46have the ongoing

9:48connection to the business. I also sold

9:50roses door-to-door. So, on Valentine's

9:53Day, I bought

9:54a few hundred roses, we dressed up in

9:56tuxedos, and we went door-to-door

9:57selling Valentine's Day roses. And that

10:00probably lasted 3 weeks from the time we

10:02came up with the idea to the time we

10:04found a supplier, bought the roses, went

10:06door-to-door,

10:07and made our sales, and then it was all

10:09finished at the end of Valentine's Day.

10:11So, these are called side hustles, and

10:12the important point is that they're not

10:14ongoing ventures. They're just open and

10:17shut, and then you can reflect, you can

10:18then sort of see what worked, what

10:20didn't work, and then see if you want to

10:21continue after that. Something else that

10:24I I don't think I've ever heard many

10:26entrepreneurs or founders talk about

10:28when they're giving advice on that

10:29preparation learning phase is the

10:31importance of writing.

10:34Yeah. It's not had a profound impact on

10:36me.

10:37Um my the rate in which I learned

10:40was having a practice.

10:42stage in your journey did you write? So,

10:44I made a commitment to myself when I was

10:4624 to write a tweet every day. Okay. And

10:51I would screenshot it and post on

10:52Instagram. Now, this was maybe the

10:55single biggest hack in my life that I've

10:57never really talked about because of the

10:59all of the downstream consequences that

11:01occurred.

11:02Downstream consequence number one, got 2

11:03million followers on Instagram by

11:05posting these quotes of ideas that I had

11:07every day. So, every day at 7:00 p.m. my

11:09girlfriend knew at the time she goes,

11:10he's going to go off for an hour and

11:11think of something to say.

11:12Um downstream consequence number two is

11:15it taught me how to communicate ideas in

11:17a concise high-impact way, and kind of

11:19what people respond to.

11:21And I'd say number three is it generally

11:23meant that if I went through my day and

11:25something had happened,

11:27it gave me a moment to condense that

11:29down into wisdom,

11:31a piece of truth. So, that day

11:34I learned something and

11:36um without that practice, those

11:38learnings kind of would have passed you

11:39by.

11:41So, what you're describing is actually

11:42beyond just writing, it's publishing. Um

11:45and publishing means to make public, to

11:47put something into the public domain.

11:48So, yeah, there's journaling which you

11:50keep private, but then there's making

11:52something public. Um and when you have

11:54when you do this, you have to think

11:55about how would this be a value to

11:57others? Um so, you're thinking, you

11:59know, entrepreneurs have to be thinking

12:00about how would this be a value to

12:02others. You're putting it into the

12:03public domain, so you're getting

12:04feedback as to whether this is a good

12:06idea or a bad idea or okay idea. Um so,

12:10yeah, uh publishing doesn't have to be

12:12tweeting, it doesn't have to be um

12:14writing a book. Publishing is video,

12:17audio. Um it can be long-form content,

12:19it can be short content. Uh you could do

12:21shorts, you could do tweets, right? All

12:24of that is publishing. The the essence

12:25of publishing is that you're taking your

12:27ideas and sharing it publicly, putting

12:29it in the public domain. That is a very

12:31rapid way to get started. Um interesting

12:35fact on this, that out of the billion

12:38people who use LinkedIn,

12:40only 3% are publishing regularly and

12:42less than 1% publish weekly. So, you

12:46think that you're in competition with a

12:47billion people on LinkedIn.

12:4999% of people are just there to kind of

12:51lurk and watch what other people are

12:52doing. Only 1% of people are competing.

12:551% of people are creating the content on

12:57that platform. Um when it comes to

12:59YouTube, there's 2.7 billion users of

13:02YouTube, but only 4% of people have a an

13:05account and only a fraction of those

13:07accounts are active. So, it's a tiny

13:09percentage of the world's population

13:11that are creating something. Most people

13:12are consuming. So, one thing that you're

13:15describing is the move from being a

13:17consumer to a creator. And entrepreneurs

13:19have to make that move.

13:21How have you

13:23accelerated your learning? Because

13:24you're someone that is able to

13:26give out lots of different ideas from

13:28lots of different reference points. And

13:29there must be some kind of underlying

13:30framework you're using to like learn,

13:32process, and publish, which now presents

13:35you, which is part of the reason you get

13:37invited onto the all these podcasts now,

13:38and people are paying you to speak at

13:40their events, etc. What was that

13:42framework for you?

13:43So, my background was I used to have an

13:46agency, and we used to run all these

13:47different events, and we used to have to

13:50put stuff onto people's seats when we

13:52were running events, and I had to kind

13:53of write stuff all the time like quick

13:55reports and all of that. So, I got in

13:56the habit of writing. I saw the power of

13:58writing.

13:59Um in 2009, the entire world tipped on

14:02its head um after the global financial

14:04crisis, and I was completely disrupted.

14:07Uh I went from

14:09millions of revenue down to a few

14:10hundred thousand of revenue. I lost 90%

14:12of my revenue in 1 year. Um it was mass-

14:14It was I remember one Christmas party,

14:1617, 18 people at a Christmas party, the

14:18following year was three. Um it was

14:20morbid.

14:22So, during that time where the global

14:24financial crisis had such a deep impact,

14:27I began writing about what is it that I

14:30know to be true? What is it that like I

14:32don't know much because I've just had

14:33the rug pulled out from under me. What

14:35is it I do know to be true? What are the

14:36most uh

14:38strong truths that I could share? And I

14:40ended up writing the book called Key

14:41Person of Influence in 2009, and it came

14:44out in 2010.

14:45And what I felt very confident about was

14:47this idea that the future was going to

14:51see a shift from business and

14:52institutional brands to personal brands.

14:54That we would see the decline of big

14:57faceless companies and the rise of uh

15:00individuals whose personal brands were

15:02bigger than the institutions. Um and it

15:05was pretty radical idea at the time, but

15:06I felt pretty confident about it. And

15:08the more I wrote about it, the more I

15:09felt this was where the world was

15:11heading. Um if we look today, we can see

15:13Brian Cox, Professor Brian Cox, has more

15:15followers than CERN. Um we can see

15:18Richard Branson has orders of magnitude

15:20more followers than Virgin. Uh we can

15:22see Elon's got more followers than NASA.

15:25Uh we can see, you know, Trump is way

15:27more powerful than the Republican Party.

15:30So, the the essentially the personal

15:32brand has just gone woosh ahead. Um but

15:36I was I I started that process very

15:38murky that I didn't quite know what it

15:40was. It was a feeling or a sense. And by

15:42the time I'd gone through the publishing

15:44process of writing, uh I was clear.

15:47And the macro factors that brought that

15:49about?

15:50What are those underlying shifts that

15:52happened that meant we went from the

15:54logo to the person?

15:57Let's zoom out 300 years. So, the the

15:59agricultural age

16:01uh was essentially the economic system

16:03was called feudalism. And there was

16:05lords and kings and queens. And then

16:06there was serfs and people who served

16:08the land. Then technology changed

16:10things. You can imagine what it must

16:11have been like when 300 people were on a

16:14farm, and then they saw three people on

16:16a tractor.

16:17And then that tractor went

16:20and went and did the job of hundreds of

16:21people with three people on it. And it's

16:24like, "Oh my goodness, what are we all

16:25going to do?"

16:26Um how are we all going to live our

16:28lives anymore, right? And then they

16:29would have said, "Well, what are going

16:30to be the jobs? Like, everyone works in

16:32farming." And it's like, "Well, there's

16:34going to be this whole new system. There

16:35will be a completely new economic system

16:37called the industrial system, and it's

16:40going to replace everything."

16:41So, back in the agricultural age,

16:44uh if you were a lord, right? And if you

16:46were rich, if you were successful, you

16:47had vast tracts of agricultural land.

16:50But as soon as the industrial age kicked

16:52in, you didn't even need land. You only

16:54needed a tiny amount of land to put a

16:55factory on. What mattered is that you

16:57had the ability to organize labor and

16:59machinery. And if you could organize a

17:01factory, that was way more economically

17:03productive than a huge hundreds of

17:05acres. So, the whole economic system got

17:08tipped on its head. And suddenly it

17:09didn't matter if you were a duke, it

17:10mattered if you were an industrialist,

17:12if you were a capitalist. So, this whole

17:14new system took over. We had 200 years

17:16of innovation, and it went through

17:17multiple waves. But, the important thing

17:20to know is that it's technology that

17:21changed things, right? It's always a

17:23technology shift, right? The the the

17:25fundamentals of the economy are dictated

17:27by the technology that we have available

17:29to us.

17:30So, what happened around the 2000s to

17:342020

17:35is we had these general-purpose

17:37technologies that just got introduced as

17:39though they were nothing. You know,

17:41suddenly everyone can publish a video

17:43online. Suddenly, everyone can write a

17:45blog. Suddenly, everyone can tweet.

17:47Everyone can form a community on

17:48Facebook. Uh there's this device that

17:51you put in your pocket that is better

17:53than a uh traditional camera studio that

17:55the BBC would have had. So, the the

17:58power was just rapidly swinging from

18:00institutions to individuals. I'm sitting

18:02there going, "Wait a second, an

18:04individual has got all the things that a

18:06multinational corporation has access to,

18:09but they don't have the bureaucracy,

18:10right? They don't have the the weight on

18:12their shoulders. They don't make slow

18:13decisions. They can make fast

18:14decisions." So, as I witnessed this

18:16technology being introduced, I said,

18:19"The way this is going is it's going to

18:20take all the power of big businesses and

18:22institutions and just give that to

18:23individuals."

18:25That's exactly what happened.

18:26And it I mean, if there was ever a year

18:28where that's been more in focus with

18:29this election cycle and what we've seen

18:31with Trump and going on Rogan and Kamala

18:35going on Alex Cooper in the media lens.

18:37That That's what cost the election. So,

18:40that's a big trend. Um

18:42US presidential elections have always

18:44predicted major trends. So, Franklin

18:46Roosevelt in the '30s, he did the

18:49national radio campaign. JFK in the '60s

18:53did the televised campaign. Obama in

18:552008 did the social media campaign. Each

18:58of those campaigns changed the game.

19:01Trump in 2016 did a hyper-personalized

19:04digital data-driven campaign, uh

19:06famously with Cambridge Analytica. And

19:08that actually gave birth to data

19:10analytics and hyper-personalization.

19:12And then something big happened in 2024.

19:16And what happened is that Trump broke

19:17the mold on campaigning and he started

19:19going on all these major podcasts.

19:22And if we actually crunch the numbers,

19:25Trump did something like 40 hours worth

19:28of watch time.

19:29And it got 124 million views.

19:33And Kamala did, I think it was 7 hours.

19:36Just in the long form? Yeah, just on the

19:38long form. She did 7 hours total and it

19:42only got a few million views.

19:44And one of her podcasts only last 7

19:46minutes.

19:47Now, what she did is she approached it

19:49like a McKinsey consultant, which is she

19:51turned up and she said, "Here's the

19:52script, here's the questions.

19:54Ask me these questions and then I'm out

19:56of here." And it was very much the kind

19:58of professional corporate approach.

20:01Trump rocks up onto comedian's podcast

20:04and says, "Yeah, ask me anything." And

20:05then he just goes on a big rant and it

20:07goes for 3 hours.

20:09Now, what's actually happening is is

20:10quite predictable.

20:12In a world of short videos and in a

20:14world of AI and in a world of confusion

20:16and disruption

20:18and and where everyone's throwing

20:21punches at each other saying, "You're

20:22misinformation, you're misinformation."

20:24You've seen some of this, right? Going

20:25on, right? Misinformation,

20:27misinformation.

20:28What's actually going on is that people

20:30say, "Hey, enough's enough. I want to

20:31see a long-form piece of content and

20:33make my own mind up. I don't want anyone

20:35to tell me what's misinformation. I'm

20:37smart enough. I want to see if this

20:39Trump guy is a crazy guy. I want to be

20:41able to see him, you know, for 2 or 3

20:44hours and I'll make my own mind up on

20:45that because everyone's saying so many

20:47different things and I know that there's

20:48all this confusion. I want the long-form

20:51piece of content."

20:52So, 2024

20:54began the long-form unscripted era,

20:56right? So, now where we are with

20:58marketing is you've got to drop the

20:59script and you've got to do long-form

21:01content. And here's my prediction.

21:04The prediction is is we're going to see

21:05the biggest CEOs in the world clamoring

21:08to get onto this podcast and other

21:09podcasts like it. They're all going to

21:11be wanting desperately to build their

21:13personal brand because they know that

21:15the long-form unscripted podcast is the

21:17only way to hire talented people, the

21:20only way to get loyal customers, the

21:22only way to keep investors happy. It's

21:24going to be the key to the entire

21:25shooting match is that the CEO of a big

21:28company has to become human and they

21:30have to be unscripted.

21:33And what advice would you give them

21:34because you consult for a lot of people?

21:35They come to you for advice whether it's

21:36the biggest influencers of the world or

21:37CEOs. If

21:39if you were giving them advice on how to

21:41achieve that goal, what would you say?

21:43Well, I I mostly talk to entrepreneurs

21:46and I mostly care about entrepreneurs.

21:48And the advice I give to entrepreneurs

21:49is work your way up the podcast pyramid.

21:52Um so, there's literally thousands and

21:54thousands of podcasts that get a few

21:56thousand views. Just go on those. Go on

21:59lots of them. Um if you do a good job,

22:01you'll eventually be invited onto a

22:02slightly bigger one and you'll

22:03eventually be invited onto a slightly

22:05bigger one again. And there's this

22:06pyramid of, you know, there's there's a

22:08few podcasts as big as yours, but

22:10there's thousands of podcasts in every

22:12single niche and vertical where anyone

22:15can go on and you know, talk about who

22:17they are and what they do.

22:18So, for any entrepreneur, my challenge

22:20to them, the ones that I'm working with,

22:22is an absolute minimum I want them to

22:24create 10 to 20 hours of watch time in

22:27the year ahead. So, I want people to go

22:30on 10 podcasts that last for 2 hours or

22:331 to 2 hours and I want them talking

22:35through their business story, their

22:36origin, their mission, their vision,

22:39you know, how they got started, the

22:40types of people they employ, the types

22:41of customer problems they solve, the

22:43outcomes they deliver. All of that, put

22:45it all into a podcast, get good at that

22:47format.

22:48You

22:49publish in lots of ways, right? You

22:51publish written form, you publish in

22:53video. Is there anything at all that's

22:56if there was one single thing that's

22:58helped you become better at speaking or

23:00communicating ideas

23:02and you can't say, "No, I'll take away

23:04the restraints." What would you say it

23:05is? Frameworks. Frameworks. What does

23:08that mean?

23:09So, you need communication frameworks.

23:11So, if I'm introducing myself

23:14to someone, I use something called name,

23:16same, fame, aim, and a game.

23:18So, we can break that down.

23:21What is my name and my business name?

23:23What is What is it that I'm the same as

23:26that you already understand?

23:28Let's pause there. What is Why does that

23:30matter? When people are storing

23:32information, they need to open a folder,

23:34and they want to open a folder that's

23:35very easy to label. So, they don't want

23:38to open a folder that says like I'm an

23:40energetic healer that works with

23:42transmutational objects that that

23:44transcend time space and blah blah blah.

23:47They want to go, "Oh, you know, you're a

23:49life coach. Okay, great. I understand

23:50that." Or you're a vet. Okay, cool.

23:52You're a consultant. You're You know,

23:54you're a software company. Got it. So,

23:56it's like just the most basic thing that

23:58I can then hang everything on that. Mhm.

24:00Cuz I already understand it.

24:02So, name, same, fame. So, fame is like

24:05what makes you interesting? What makes

24:06you fascinating? What big brands have

24:08you worked with? What interesting

24:09projects have you landed? So, anything

24:12that would make you stand out. Any big

24:13numbers, any awards, any big names, any

24:17of that would be your fame.

24:19So, name, same, fame. Aim. What are you

24:23working on in the next 90 days?

24:25Mhm. And then game. What is your bigger

24:27vision? What do you want to achieve in

24:28the next three to six years?

24:30I think a lot of people aren't even

24:31clear on that.

24:32A lot of people aren't, and that's why

24:33the framework's powerful, cuz it forces

24:35you to get clear on it. If you then get

24:37clear on it, you can introduce yourself

24:39with power and authority. You can do the

24:41beginning of a podcast. You can be on a

24:43stage. Just introducing yourself at a

24:45networking function. Believe it or not,

24:47you can cram all of that into 30

24:49seconds. Mhm.

24:52And so, going back to this point of

24:53preparation. Right, so one of the big

24:55things that is going to give me a

24:56significant competitive advantage if I'm

24:58building a business is personal

25:00branding.

25:01What else do you think someone like me

25:04at the start of my career needs to

25:05understand about the game of personal

25:06branding? Is there are there any

25:08particular platforms I should be aiming

25:10at? A particular upload cadence? A

25:13particular type of content? Here's what

25:15you need to know.

25:17You need to know that humans have a

25:19limited ability to remember names and

25:21faces. They only have a small number of

25:23slots in their brain for who they

25:25remember. And the number is about 1,500

25:28in total.

25:30Um and it's about 150 that you can kind

25:32of remember well. And these are called

25:34Dunbar's numbers. And Dunbar's numbers

25:36basically said you've got a few slots

25:37for your family and then some more slots

25:39for friends, then you've got your

25:40acquaintances right out to 1,500 people

25:42that you can easily put a name and a

25:44face to.

25:46In order to for you to be successful,

25:47you've got to get into people's head.

25:49They have to kind of know who you are.

25:51Um in order to do that, they have to

25:53spend time with you. They have to have

25:56rep uh repetition with you and they have

25:57to see you in multiple contexts. So, the

26:00research says 7 11 4.

26:027 hours, 11 interactions on four

26:04platforms. Per?

26:06In order for you to remember me. Okay.

26:08Total. Okay. So, for example,

26:11you and I, we've now connected a few

26:13times. Um so, we have probably clocked

26:15up maybe 7 hours together. Mhm. Now,

26:17what that means is that uh if I bumped

26:21into you at a conference, even if I was

26:22on one side of the room and you were on

26:23the other side of the room, you'd say,

26:24"Oh, there's Daniel." Your brain would

26:26immediately go, "Oh, there's Daniel.

26:27I'll walk over. I'll say hello." Because

26:28we've spent enough time together. Um

26:31now, there's this phenomenon called

26:33parasocial relationships. Parasocial

26:35relationships are basically one-sided

26:37relationships. It it's how we feel

26:39towards famous people.

26:41So, we think that we know George

26:44Clooney. We think that we know Angelina

26:46Jolie. We don't. It's a parasocial

26:47relationship. That person we've spent

26:50time with them through their movies,

26:52through their media appearances, and

26:54therefore, because they've clocked up 7

26:5611 4 with us,

26:58we then feel that we know them.

27:00Is this making sense?

27:01Makes perfect sense.

27:02Yeah, so what we have to do is build

27:03parasocial relationships at scale.

27:05So, what we have to do is put out enough

27:07stuff where anyone can spend 7 hours, 11

27:10interactions for on four platforms.

27:13So,

27:14when I work with entrepreneurs, here's

27:16one of the questions I always ask. I

27:17say, "If I was to block out tomorrow,

27:20and I'm going to take all day to watch,

27:22read, or listen to everything that

27:24you've got available online,

27:26and uh I'm looking for things that are

27:27on message that tell me about who you

27:29are, who you serve, what it is that you

27:31do,

27:32can I spend all day going through your

27:34online environment and just fill the

27:36entire day?"

27:37And most people say no.

27:39And then, occasionally, some people say,

27:41"Yes." And they say, "Yeah, actually you

27:42can. I've been on a few podcasts. I've

27:44got an audiobook that I released. I've

27:46got some videos on YouTube. I've got

27:48some posts on LinkedIn. You could go

27:49through all of that." Those are the ones

27:51that are scaling really fast, because

27:53they've put in the work to be scalable.

27:56They can build a parasocial relationship

27:58like that.

27:59And if we drill down into the art of

28:01building a parasocial relationship,

28:03Mhm.

28:04because it's funny, at the start of the

28:05conversation you said that these are the

28:06new rules in business in the world

28:09because of these macro changes. But at

28:11some point, the new rules become the old

28:13rules again,

28:14Mhm. when everyone listens to this

28:15podcast. And you kind of see it at the

28:17moment on LinkedIn. LinkedIn is a

28:19um

28:20a long stream of professional personal

28:23brand builders, whereas 5 years ago, it

28:25wasn't the case the case.

28:26But but the but the numbers are still

28:28only 1% of people are doing it. 99% of

28:31people aren't posting weekly. So, we're

28:32still early.

28:33We're still way early. But is there is

28:35there a

28:36a framework for

28:38creating some kind of differentiation

28:40amongst

28:42a noisy crowd? Because

28:44Yeah. So, the the differentiation So, a

28:46lot of people ask me about

28:47differentiation. So let's talk about

28:49what makes you different. And to you to

28:50talk about this, let's go through a

28:52scenario. And the scenario is that

28:54you're walking down the street and

28:56you're walking down Oxford Street and

28:57it's thousands of people, really busy

28:59street.

29:00And as you're walking down, your brain

29:03has this limbic system that just deletes

29:05people. So you just kind of see people

29:08as blobs not to hit and you just kind of

29:10walk. And if I stop you at the end of

29:11the street and I say, "How many people

29:13do you remember seeing?" you'll go,

29:15"None. I don't remember seeing anyone in

29:16particular." If I said describe some of

29:19the people, what they were wearing, "I

29:20can't remember anything."

29:22So your brain is extremely good at

29:23deleting messages and this is what's

29:25happening in our marketplaces. People

29:27just delete everything.

29:29Here's what doesn't get deleted. So

29:30there's there's five things that will

29:32not be deleted by the brain. The first

29:34one is scary. So if something is scary,

29:37we pay attention to it. This is why the

29:39news has been so successful for many

29:41many years because they say if it

29:43bleeds, it leads. If it's scary, if it's

29:45horrible, people will watch it. Let's

29:47find the the worst possible things that

29:49happened today. Let's blow them up and

29:51put them in everyone's house so that

29:52they spend time watching uh watching the

29:54news.

29:55So so be a scary person.

29:56scary, right?

29:58Uh the next one is be strange. So if you

30:01saw someone walking down the street uh

30:03dressed as a giant hot dog, you'd say,

30:05"Oh, I remember the guy who was dressed

30:06as a giant hot dog." cuz it's so

30:07strange. Peacocking. Yeah. Well,

30:09peacocking, yeah. Uh you could try Yeah,

30:11exactly. You could wear that big kind of

30:13hat that you've got in the cupboard that

30:15uh that we don't talk about.

30:16Mhm. Uh and then the next one's sexy.

30:19So So we've got strange, we've got

30:22scary, we've got sexy. Now these are

30:24three things that most businesses don't

30:26want to be. So most businesses can't

30:28stand out and sexy, even if they wanted

30:30to be that, most people can't pull that

30:32one off anyway.

30:33Um so only a few lucky people get to do

30:35that one.

30:36Um but actually the last two are the

30:38ones that are most useful.

30:39And that is providing free value, so

30:41free things.

30:43Anyone who gives free value away is

30:45immediately stand out.

30:47Okay, we've got to make sure that it is

30:49value.

30:49It's got to be value. Because everyone

30:50thinks what they're doing is value.

30:52Totally. It's got to be something that

30:53people would have otherwise paid for.

30:55Um and it has to be beautifully

30:56packaged. So, if I hand you a piece of

30:59jewelry in a plastic bag, you're going

31:01to think, "Oh, it's fake or it's, you

31:03know, stolen or it's, you know, not real

31:04or something like that. It's cheap."

31:06Right? If I hand it to you in a

31:07beautiful box and it's beautifully

31:08wrapped, you're going to say, "Oh,

31:09that's a very thoughtful gift." Mhm. So,

31:11it's the way that it's packaged and it's

31:12also, you know, that it's actually

31:14something that people would otherwise

31:15pay for. So, providing free value,

31:19um and also being familiar, which is

31:21clocking up the 7-11-4. So, free and

31:24familiar are the two things that anyone

31:26can apply.

31:28So, look at Let's look at you, for

31:29example. You spend tens of thousands of

31:31pounds producing episodes of this show

31:33and you just make it freely available on

31:36um

31:37YouTube. I wish that's how much I spent.

31:39Well, each each show, right?

31:41Um

31:43So, you're putting all this energy and

31:45effort in and you're putting high

31:46production value. You're going to the

31:48expense of getting all these great

31:49guests. All of this stuff's going on and

31:51then you're making it free for so many

31:53people. You're including people in

31:55conversations that they normally

31:56wouldn't have access to. So, you have

31:58clocked up enormous amounts of standout

32:01value for people because you've been

32:04consistent, so 7-11-4. People have spent

32:067 hours, 11 interactions, four locations

32:08with you. Um and also you've done free

32:11value. So, you've given a lot for free.

32:14So, um essentially, those are the two um

32:17and you're also strange. So,

32:19So, with those three things, you've been

32:22able to uh succeed massively.

32:23We do have scary conversations as well.

32:25I have to be honest. We did the nuclear

32:26bomb conversation, right? And happy sexy

32:28millionaire, so you've got that as well.

32:29Yeah, sexy is what I'm Thank you so much

32:31for that, Daniel. You've got all five

32:32going on.

32:33It but when you were saying this, So

32:35actually thinking of this as a a

32:36marketing framework for brands as well.

32:38I was thinking of that kid that I met on

32:40the in the promenade in Cape Town with

32:42the couple and I was thinking if they

32:43were starting out with an idea today in

32:45a very saturated environment like Oxford

32:47Street in London,

32:49pulling in on some of these actually

32:50gives you such an unfair advantage to

32:53get to get going. And I I I know this

32:54myself because when I was 18,

32:58one of the things that I realized in

32:59hindsight was working for me was I

33:00looked a bit strange. I had this big

33:03which some people will find photos of,

33:04this big hat that I used to wear and I

33:06would wear it everywhere. I wore it

33:07because my hair was But it became

33:09this like this distinctive thing that at

33:12conferences, at events, on my LinkedIn,

33:14it became part of my brand. That's why I

33:16interjected with the word peacocking

33:17because looking slightly different in

33:20some way does actually It does work.

33:22Yeah, it cuts cuts through the noise.

33:24The other thing too, let's go to your

33:26friends the 21-year-olds in Cape Town.

33:30One of the first things we can do for

33:31free is we can

33:34um productize what's called the demo

33:37and the customer needs analysis. So

33:39let's get really tactical here.

33:42Um

33:43when it comes to what most people do to

33:45launch a business, they make a real

33:48focus on the supply of what they do. So

33:50if they let's say they want to do a

33:52drinks business,

33:53they're going to like talk to bottling

33:55companies and they're going to talk to,

33:56you know, how much do I have to spend

33:58buying the fruit to put in the tea and

34:00do all that sort of stuff. They're

34:01thinking about the supply of what they

34:03do.

34:03Um if they're going to launch a

34:04consulting company, they're thinking

34:06about, oh, do I have the right MBA

34:07qualifications and all of this stuff is

34:09the supply side of what they do.

34:11What we want to do when we launch

34:12anything is we want to test the demand

34:14of what we do. So testing demand, the

34:16best way to do this

34:18is uh one of the best ways to do this is

34:21to productize the demo and a customer

34:23needs analysis. Mhm. So that is where we

34:25go around and we sell a presentation

34:28that might be 15 minutes to for hour

34:31where we present what it is that we can

34:32do and how it works and the principles

34:34of how it works and then we collect

34:37enough data to identify whether you've

34:39got the need for that product. So, it's

34:40called a customer needs analysis. So,

34:42the demo and the customer needs analysis

34:44you can package that up so it feels like

34:47a product. It feels like something free

34:48of value.

34:50So, give me an example then using I'm

34:51going to launch a a new coffee. Yeah.

34:53And it's the the the point of difference

34:55with my coffee is

34:56it is going to be good for your libido.

34:59Fantastic. So,

35:00uh let's imagine that we're going to

35:02sell that through retailers. Yeah. And

35:04the real customer is not the end user,

35:06it's the retailer who's going to stock

35:07it. So, what I would do is I would say

35:10we've got a new coffee brand coming and

35:12it's all about coffee for libido

35:13boosting.

35:15Um and what we want to do is we want to

35:17present to you the data, the research as

35:19to how this coffee works and why it

35:21works and all of that sort of stuff. We

35:22want to show you the branding, we want

35:24to show you like what this is going to

35:25look like. And then also what we want to

35:27do is set up a customer needs analysis

35:30where we collect the data from several

35:31of your locations to find out in advance

35:34whether people would sample this

35:35product, whether they'd buy this

35:36product, how much they'd spend.

35:38Um so, we will at our expense do the

35:40clip boarding or we'll do the um wait

35:42list campaign um or we will uh collect

35:45the data uh through um

35:48a you know, a coming soon promotion. So,

35:50essentially what we're going to do is

35:51we're going to present the data and

35:53we're going to do the customer needs

35:55analysis or present the demo, the

35:56customer needs analysis and that's all

35:58going to be packaged up as our first

35:59thing. Now, mind you, we may have no

36:01coffee at this point. We may actually

36:03have no physical product, but big

36:05retailers, they move slow anyway. Even

36:07if you had product, they wouldn't buy it

36:08today. So, they're going to say, "Oh,

36:10that's fantastic. That's what we'd like

36:11to do. We want to collect the data and

36:13we want to see the demo and see the

36:14research."

36:15So, by packaging that up as a first

36:17step, uh you're actually providing

36:20initial value. Do you know one of the

36:21things that I don't think I've ever

36:22talked about that I think um

36:23entrepreneurs and people that are

36:25founding companies should really

36:26consider

36:27is

36:29if you're thinking about let's say

36:30writing a book,

36:32instead of writing the book and then

36:34hoping it does well,

36:35Mhm. what you should do is you should

36:37take the book idea you have

36:39and then run it as a Facebook ad.

36:42Run 100 different titles. Um and when

36:45people click on that Facebook ad, they

36:46hit a waiting list.

36:47Yes. Now, in that whole process, what

36:49you've just done there is you figured

36:50out the exact percentage of people that

36:52will click on um 100 different ideas.

36:55So, for my upcoming book, one of the

36:57things that I did and some people

36:58listening to this now would have seen

36:59the ads, is I ran 70 book titles.

37:02Mhm. Beautiful. So, 70 books like this

37:05would have popped up in your feed and

37:06people have clicked on them and they've

37:07said, "I want I would like that book."

37:08They put their email address in or

37:09something like that. And now I have this

37:11data and I can tell from the top of my

37:12head Which is the most successful?

37:1415% of people clicked a certain one and

37:16the worst performing one was clicked by

37:190.3% of people. And I could have

37:23written a book um about that 0.3. And my

37:25math isn't exceptional, but the variance

37:27between a 0.3% conversion and a 15%

37:29conversion is like what's that? 1,500%

37:32or something crazy?

37:34Um and all and it was and it would cost

37:36me 200 quid to run the test. Yeah, um

37:39that's the beauty of Facebook ads. You

37:41know, you can do a set I mean, at any

37:42given time we've got hundreds of

37:43different variations of ads running and

37:45they it's like, you know, it's basically

37:47the Hunger Games for which ad performs

37:49better.

37:50Um and people don't do this sort of

37:52stuff and this is how professionals like

37:54yourself launch businesses. So, um with

37:57anything that I'm launching, whether

37:58it's a book or a product or a new

38:00business, we're going to run a set of

38:02Facebook ads, probably 10, 20, 30

38:04different variations. When you click on

38:06the link, it says, "This product's no

38:07longer available in your area." Or this

38:09product is not yet available in your

38:11area. Um but you can join the waiting

38:13list. Click here to join the waiting

38:14list. Now, once people click to join the

38:16waiting list,

38:18uh that's where we ask about five or six

38:20key questions. So, there's this thing

38:23inside people's head called the

38:24situational model. And the situational

38:26model is where am I now, where do I want

38:28to be, what's in my way, and what do I

38:30perceive as the path of least

38:32resistance. So, all the questions that

38:34we ask uh

38:36tell me about who you are today, which

38:38best describes your current situation.

38:40Tell me about where you want to be,

38:41which best describes the outcome that

38:43you're looking for from this product or

38:44service.

38:46Uh

38:46what's in the way, which best describes

38:49the reason you've not been able to get

38:50that outcome in the past. Mhm. And what

38:53are you currently considering

38:55as an option for getting that outcome?

38:58Right? So, those are the key four key

38:59questions. Then we might ask some price

39:01questions.

39:02Uh what price do you feel would be a

39:05fair price to pay?

39:06What price do you think would be so

39:08cheap that it would make you question

39:10the quality? What price would be so

39:12expensive um that you would no longer be

39:15able to afford this?

39:16So, we'll ask a few pricing questions.

39:18So, we don't just get people to join a

39:20waiting list.

39:21Sure. We're saying we want to understand

39:22the situational model. Because here's

39:25the interesting thing, especially with

39:26other products, not necessarily books,

39:28but with other products, sometimes you

39:30get a lower click-through rate,

39:31sometimes you get um what appears to be

39:34cheaper marketing,

39:35but attracts the wrong person. Yeah. And

39:37then sometimes you get a poorer

39:39performing marketing campaign. So, this

39:41one might produce leads at £10 a lead,

39:43this one might produce leads at £20 a

39:45lead, but this one might be attracting

39:47students who are broke, and this one

39:49might be attracting chief executive

39:51officers who are on 500 grand a year.

39:53I'd rather pay £20 for that client than

39:56£10 for that client. So, by getting the

39:59situational model, uh we can actually

40:01then understand which is the best

40:03campaign. Is there anything else that's

40:05really sort of pertinent to testing if

40:06my idea has legs? And I want to just add

40:09an element to this, which is we're not

40:11just talking here about the first idea,

40:13we're talking about every product you

40:15you release in the future.

40:16every business. Even your marketing

40:18campaigns and everything you do.

40:19Yeah. The The world is moving so fast

40:21that if you're an existing business

40:22listening to this, let's say you're a

40:24big business, you do tens of millions of

40:25profit, you're going to be pivoting into

40:27new products, new markets, new

40:28territories. You're going to be um

40:31trying to attract different age

40:32demographics. You're going to be you

40:34know, all of that sort of stuff.

40:36This is one of the rules of the current

40:37economy is about data and testing.

40:40You've got to be really fast with how

40:42fast you can prototype and test and get

40:44the data. Um so we love intro events

40:47where you just simply do an introduction

40:49event on Zoom uh to talk to customers.

40:53Um so we're introducing you to this new

40:55coffee. Um what do you think? Uh come

40:57and join the introduction event. We're

40:58going to share with you some research.

41:00We're going to have a a guest speaker

41:02who you've already heard of, right? So

41:04that would be an introduction event. Um

41:05I'm a big fan of discussion groups.

41:07Discussion groups are awesome for

41:08testing a an idea. So let's say um

41:13it's a discussion group. You know, let's

41:15say you're doing a a new brand of coffee

41:17and it's for Sex coffee. Sex coffee,

41:20right? Sexy sexy coffee. Um so yeah,

41:23we're going to do the sexy coffee

41:24discussion group, right? And it's

41:25basically we're launching a new product

41:27um and it's all about uh bringing sexy

41:30back to coffee. Um and if you love

41:32having coffee and you want uh want to

41:35be part of this new brand that we're

41:36launching, join the discussion group.

41:38Discussion groups are pretty wild. So

41:40I'll give you two examples of discussion

41:42groups. One of our clients um Gabriella

41:44Rosa, she uh ran a clinic.

41:47Um and it was a fertility clinic and it

41:48was about natural fertility

41:49breakthroughs. Um and what she did is

41:51she had a physical clinic that was run

41:53in a traditional way. She wanted to go

41:54and be more digital. So she launched an

41:56online discussion group where she said,

41:58"This is a discussion group for people

42:00who want uh fertility breakthroughs."

42:0223,000 people joined the discussion

42:04group, all right? And it was super

42:06active and she never had to worry about

42:08customers ever again and she built her

42:09business then globally. Uh from there

42:11she wrote a book and she changed her

42:12business. She went from a physical

42:14location to a digital business, um but

42:16it it started with a discussion group.

42:18Um another guy, one of our clients, Max,

42:21he sold a business, not for a crazy

42:24amounts of money, but a decent sale, and

42:26he decided he wanted to um spend time

42:28with people who had

42:30uh family offices. And family offices

42:32have hundreds of millions of dollars to

42:34invest, and they're like basically the

42:35family office of multi-billionaires and

42:37things.

42:38He reached out on LinkedIn,

42:40and he said, "I'm launching a WhatsApp

42:42group for people who run a multi-family

42:44office or a family office. If you'd like

42:46to join, uh it's limited to 400 people.

42:48If you'd like to join, fill in the

42:50application form to be part of our

42:51WhatsApp group for family office." So,

42:53he ended up with 400 people who have

42:55collectively over 10 billion to invest.

42:57And he built himself a a a group of

42:59people who are some of the most

43:00successful investors in the world and

43:02some of the biggest checkbooks in the

43:03world. Um so, it just started with a

43:05WhatsApp group. So, um a discussion

43:07group is just a super easy way to launch

43:09anything. Um and it costs nothing to set

43:12up a discussion group on WhatsApp, on

43:14Facebook, on LinkedIn.

43:16Um so, those are some of the some of the

43:18best ways. And then, the final one that

43:19I love is called an assessment. So, a

43:22quiz or an assessment. And this is

43:23basically

43:24where essentially you turn the customer

43:27needs analysis into an assessment, and

43:29people fill in questions to find out uh

43:32if they would like the thing. So, for

43:34example, I noticed on one of your

43:37uh what which one? Huel, right? Sorry. I

43:39noticed on Huel that

43:41you have a quiz.

43:42Um and the quiz is which Huel is right

43:45for you? Um and if you click that

43:47button, you answer a series of

43:49questions, and it tells you which

43:50product would be the best product for

43:52you to uh for you to take. I noticed

43:54that Whoop didn't have it, right? So, I

43:55actually created one for you. But

43:57anyway,

43:57you. uh I'll give it to you later. Um

44:00but basically, if you wanted to uh

44:03launch a product like Whoop, you you do

44:05an assessment, which is how well do you

44:07know your health and fitness? You know,

44:09um do you are you tracking your sleep?

44:11Are you doing this? Are you doing that?

44:12So, by launching the assessment first,

44:14while you've got the product in

44:15development, you could get 10,000 people

44:18who filled in the assessment. Now, if

44:20they've come up with a score that is

44:22like, "Oh, I only know my health and

44:23fitness 22%. I need to get that up to

44:26over 80%. I need a product that helps me

44:28to do that."

44:29So, that assessment is essentially

44:31diagnosing a need. You're helping the

44:33customer diagnose a need. Yeah. That

44:35maybe they weren't clear on.

44:36Yeah. So, this is customer needs

44:37analysis. Smart businesses often sell

44:41the needs analysis before they sell the

44:42product. Especially with anything that's

44:45especially anything that is complex.

44:48But, it goes beyond that because most

44:50customers now feel a sense of clutter in

44:52their lives. We've gone from feeling 100

44:55years ago, we felt that we had lots and

44:56lots of things that we wanted or needed,

44:58and we had unmet needs.

45:00Most people feel the opposite today. We

45:02feel that we have too many books and we

45:04haven't read them. We have too much

45:06entertainment, we haven't watched it. We

45:07have too many clothes and they're

45:09cluttering up our wardrobes. Our houses

45:11are full of stuff. Mhm. So, people feel

45:13such clutter that they only want things

45:15that are hyper-personalized to the thing

45:17they actually need.

45:19Um because otherwise, they feel, you

45:21know, that it's going to be another

45:23thing that they're not using.

45:25So, by selling a customer needs

45:26analysis, when people see that it's a

45:27perfect fit, then they want to buy. In

45:30my last book, The Driver of Success: 33

45:32Laws, I talk about um the idea that

45:34friction can create value. Mhm. And I

45:36give examples of where someone has added

45:38friction to the customer process and

45:40it's resulted in more people buying. And

45:42one of the studies I talk about is where

45:44they took two groups of people, they

45:46exposed one of them to a survey in order

45:48to enter a discussion group.

45:50Mhm. Right? So, they had to go through

45:51this survey process to get in. And they

45:53let the second group straight into the

45:54discussion group.

45:55Yeah. And then they asked both groups

45:58to rate how valuable and enjoyable they

46:01found the discussion group to be. Now,

46:02the group that had had to go through a

46:04survey to get in

46:05Yeah. reported that the discussion group

46:07was like really interesting, etc., etc.

46:09And the group that had been let straight

46:11in reported that it was boring. And it

46:13was an intentionally boring group. The

46:14stuff So, they made an intentionally

46:16boring group.

46:17But just because you made someone go

46:18through a process to get in, people

46:20reported that it was more valuable

46:22than otherwise, which says something

46:23about our psychology.

46:24does create value. Um demand and supply

46:26tension is the ultimate test of value.

46:29Um

46:30you know, it's horrible to say

46:32and I I hate this being true, but there

46:34is no such thing as objective value.

46:36Nothing is objectively valuable.

46:38Everything is subjective. Why is a

46:40Bitcoin worth what a Bitcoin is? Because

46:42there's more buyers than sellers.

46:43There's demand and supply tension. Why

46:45is water free? Because it's freely

46:47available. There's no friction.

46:49Why do we never stop and think about how

46:51incredible it is that we have Google

46:52Maps?

46:54And like we go like, "Oh my goodness,

46:56someone spent a billion dollars sending

46:59satellites up so that I can have maps on

47:00my phone for free." Like no one's

47:02weeping tears of joy for Google Maps,

47:04and we should be. Mhm. Because he you

47:06know, someone spent a billion dollars on

47:08our behalf, so we've got free maps on

47:09our phone, but there's no friction

47:11around it. Mhm. Now, if they suddenly

47:12said, "We're taking it away," we'd hit

47:14the roof. Yeah. And if they said it's 10

47:16bucks a month, we'd pay 10 bucks a

47:17month. Mhm. Um so, friction creates

47:21value. Um demand and supply tension

47:24creates value. Now, the very difficult

47:26thing that we have in the world right

47:27now is that in a digital environment

47:30there's no natural tension. Right? So, a

47:33hundred million people can watch a video

47:34in a week and you know, it transcends

47:37time, space, wear and tear. There's no

47:39barriers. Nothing There's nothing that

47:41stops it.

47:42The money accumulates around those

47:44tension points.

47:45So, the successful businesses, they know

47:47how to use the digital environment to

47:48drive up demand and manufacture desire

47:51and manufacture demand. And then they

47:52have choke points in their business or

47:54tension points in their business where

47:56demand and supply tension is rife, and

47:59those are the places where they

48:00monetize. Mhm. Um something that's

48:02really interesting about monetization

48:04that's happening at the moment is that

48:06all the money is moving up to the top

48:0710%, right? So, as as we go through this

48:10big transition,

48:12the affluence is all up in the top 10%.

48:14So, we did some research into this.

48:16The top 1% of people in your audience,

48:19in everyone's audience, whether you're a

48:21you know, LinkedIn account or whether

48:23you've got millions of followers,

48:25top 1% have got a total of 15% of the

48:27budget

48:29available to spend.

48:30The next 9% have got 45% of the budget

48:34available to spend. So, in the top 10%

48:36there is 60% of the available budget.

48:39And then the bottom 90% collectively

48:42have 40%.

48:45So, what happens is that the new

48:47business model that's emerging is that

48:49you give free value to the bottom 90%

48:51and you don't ask anything in return,

48:53but you monetize the top 10%, and you

48:55find things that are very special, very

48:57rare, special experiences, special

48:59products, limited editions, um

49:01communities, uh

49:03special access.

49:04The top 10% have got all the money, so

49:06you just give free value to 90% of

49:08people, and you only create products and

49:10services for the top 10%. That's very

49:11much a new business model at the moment.

49:13And the 90% are driving your content,

49:16your business, your product to the top

49:1910% through their engagement, their

49:20sharing, etc. Well, it's a fractal. It

49:23doesn't matter what you do, the top 1%

49:25will even if

49:26even if you only did something for

49:27billionaires, the top 1% of billionaires

49:29have got 15% of the total budget, and

49:32the and the bottom 90% of billionaires

49:34have actually only got 40% of the

49:36budget. If you take the Forbes list,

49:38it's still those numbers still apply. Um

49:41the key is is that you well, actually

49:43what you want to do is the opposite. You

49:45don't want to get dragged down into the

49:4790% because the 90% are the noisiest,

49:50they're the loudest. So, if you ask

49:53everyone how much should I charge, the

49:56average answer is going to be $500.

49:58But, if you ask the top 1% how much

50:00should I charge, the average answer is

50:01going to be $15 to $20,000.

50:03So, you have to be very, very careful

50:06not to create a product that gets

50:07dragged down towards the 90% cuz the 90%

50:10don't have the budget to pay the top

50:12money. You're far better off

50:15having a way of um

50:17uh

50:18a way of segmenting that top 10% so that

50:21you can actually pick up the signal from

50:23them and not the noise from everybody

50:25else. Are there any other frameworks

50:27that you would use in that early stage

50:29where you're trying to figure out if

50:30your idea has traction or even from a

50:35sort of motivation psychology

50:37perspective

50:39if it's worth pursuing this thing for

50:41the next 10 years of your life.

50:43Because we talk a lot about okay, if

50:44someone's clicked on it, someone there's

50:45demand and interest, but the journey of

50:47an entrepreneur is an emotional one. And

50:49as you often say, there's you go through

50:50hell and high water, ups and downs as an

50:52entrepreneur. So, there's an element of

50:54this which is like figuring out what you

50:56want to commit your life to. Mhm. Well,

50:58we call this the entrepreneur sweet

50:59spot. And the entrepreneur sweet spot is

51:01a Venn diagram. And you're trying to

51:03balance between your passion, Yeah. the

51:06problem and the value of the problem

51:07that you solve, and how much people are

51:09willing to pay for that. So, passion,

51:11problem, payment.

51:12Uh so, ultimately

51:15things that we're highly passionate

51:16about,

51:17that's great, but that only ticks one

51:19box. And if you're passionate about

51:21something, but you're not solving a

51:22problem for others and they're not

51:23willing to pay you for it, you're going

51:25to feel very unrewarded, you're going to

51:26feel

51:27um disconnected, maybe you feel even

51:29unethical uh about that.

51:32Uh a lot of people in corporate jobs,

51:34they solve a problem and they get paid

51:35well, but they're not passionate about

51:37it. And what they tend to do is throw

51:38the baby out with the bathwater, and

51:40they go and pursue being a yoga

51:42instructor from being a corporate

51:44lawyer, and then they wonder why they

51:45got no money cuz they just kind of threw

51:47away the thing that they're very good at

51:49and the thing that they get paid for and

51:50just exchange it. So, what we have to do

51:52is actually try and capture all three

51:55by making some compromises. And the

51:57compromises are I'm not going to go to

51:59the thing that is the extreme of

52:01passion, and I'm not going to go to the

52:02thing that's the extreme of financial

52:04rewards. I'm not going to go to the

52:05extreme of my intellectual property and

52:08my problem-solving abilities. I'm going

52:10to find something that is in the middle

52:11that ticks all of those boxes. So, I'm

52:13I'm getting a good blend. While

52:15understanding that I'm There's going to

52:16be a trade-off. There's going to be some

52:17shadow on the

52:18some trade-offs. Yeah, you can't have

52:19You can't have it all at the extremes.

52:21You can have it all, but not uh all uh

52:24at the extremes. You You talked about

52:26something at the start of this

52:27conversation. You mentioned the word

52:28geography.

52:29Um as we were talking about the macro

52:31factors that are at play in the

52:32transitions we've seen. My question to

52:34you is, does geography matter

52:36for success

52:39as an entrepreneur? So, those kids in

52:40Cape Town,

52:42do they need to be thinking, "Listen, we

52:43need to move to one of the major cities

52:45if we're going to have stand a chance in

52:46most of these new digital um

52:49opportunities?" It used to matter a lot.

52:51When we used to think about

52:52entrepreneurs, we thought about two men,

52:55typically in their 20s,

52:57who came from an a prestigious US

52:59university. They got into a garage.

53:02They, you know, they dropped They

53:03dropped out of Harvard. They dropped out

53:04of Stanford. Uh and then they started

53:07something that was VC-backed. That was

53:09the old model of what we think of as an

53:11entrepreneur. And it was very much

53:12dependent upon those parameters.

53:15Entrepreneurship's transcended that.

53:16It's transcended geography, gender,

53:19race,

53:20um

53:20and and also the sca- size and scale of

53:22what we consider to be successful. So,

53:24what we're now seeing is people all over

53:26the world who uh are able to connect

53:29with markets anywhere in the world,

53:30launch a product that can be sold

53:32anywhere in the world. Um we're seeing

53:34people who bootstrap rather than get VC

53:36capital. Uh we're seeing people who um

53:38rather than trying to create something

53:40mass market, they create something niche

53:41market. Rather than trying to scale to

53:43be a unicorn, they actually ask the

53:45question at what size would I be

53:47fulfilled? So, there are plenty of

53:49people who

53:51Well, one of the most fulfilling

53:52businesses that you'll ever have has

53:54between six and 12 people and does three

53:56or four million of revenue. And if

53:58you've got that,

54:00probably you're going to be the most

54:01fulfilled person in the world. If it's

54:02profitable. Yeah, well, cuz a lot of

54:04these businesses have 60% margins. If

54:06they're digital businesses, if they're

54:07intellectual property

54:09um you know, if they're running on the

54:10new economy assets,

54:12then they'll be wildly profitable. So,

54:14you might have six to 12 people do two

54:16or three million a year. You might make

54:18a million of clear profit. Um and then

54:20you're totally building a business on

54:22fun, freedom, and fulfillment. Are you

54:25the next Google? Absolutely not. Do you

54:26have VCs breathing down your neck? No.

54:29Um are you able to pick and choose the

54:31types of people and opportunities you

54:33want to work with? Yes. So, incredibly

54:35fulfilling. So, that's a new type of

54:37business. I would call that a lifestyle

54:38boutique.

54:39Um there's another type of business

54:41called a performance business. Um and

54:44this is a business that typically has 30

54:46people, normally working with some sort

54:48of technology,

54:49and they build a business that

54:51they build a business that can be sold

54:52for between 10 and 100 million. And

54:54that's my That's my game. I like

54:56businesses that achieve 10 to 100

54:58million valuation with about 30 people

55:00on a team, and we can sell to either a

55:02publicly listed company, a private

55:04equity-backed company.

55:06Um we can exit to any of those kind of

55:08companies, but you know, we don't have

55:10to be the next Google, and we also don't

55:11have to split the exit with a VC.

55:14Why do you say that when you also just

55:16said that the most fun and fulfilling

55:18businesses are actually those small ones

55:19with a small group of people? In order

55:21to go to that next level, you have to be

55:22a business geek.

55:24So, anyone can build a six to 12-person

55:27business, and at that point all you have

55:29to geek out on is the topic of interest

55:31to the customer. So, if your customer

55:33loves yoga, you're just talking about

55:35yoga all the time. Or if your customer

55:37loves photography, you're talking about

55:38photography. And you don't have to be a

55:40business geek at that point. When you've

55:42got a team of about 30 to 100,

55:45uh you have to be a you have to be

55:47totally into the product, the

55:49intellectual property of what you do,

55:51but you also have to geek out on

55:52technology, and you also have to geek

55:54out on business.

55:55So, not everyone is built for that. You

55:58have to really love your acronyms. You

56:00need to like, oh, go-to-market strategy

56:02or, you know, lifetime value of a

56:03client. I I Okay, what's the LTV? What's

56:06the GT you know, GTM? So, you kind of

56:08got to be into all of those things uh

56:10quite naturally. You naturally want to

56:12read business books. Um so,

56:15you're not going to enjoy that if you

56:16hate business or if you hate technology,

56:18cuz those businesses tend to be about um

56:20business strategy and tech. These ones

56:22are about intellectual property, media,

56:24and data.

56:25Got you.

56:27Do you think you'd be happier if you

56:30were less ambitious?

56:31Um I My happiness levels are really

56:33high. Um I walk around feeling like I'm

56:36super lucky to do what I do, and it's

56:38total privilege, and I love living in

56:40these times. I can't believe I'm lucky

56:42enough to be born at the perfect time to

56:45see this change and and to have access

56:47to all these resources. And what do you

56:49How do you think about work-life balance

56:50these days? And how should especially

56:52sort of young founders When I say young

56:54founders, I don't mean age, I mean

56:55stage.

56:56Um should be thinking about work-life

56:57balance in your view? So, I had no

56:59balance for many years, probably a

57:00decade or more.

57:02Um all I did was uh essentially just get

57:05out of bed, work, uh everything related

57:07to work. And the reason I did that is

57:09that it ticked all of my human needs,

57:11right? I was getting significance and

57:12variety, um and I was um

57:15you know, getting uh certainty, and I

57:17was getting all of those things that we

57:18want from life, and I was feeling a

57:20sense of growth and development and

57:22learning. So, everything plugged into

57:24those human needs, and my business was

57:26giving me all of that. When I had uh

57:29kids and I got married, there was this

57:31whole other side to me that needed to be

57:32balanced. And I think that there's more

57:36to do with there's some seasons, like

57:38that we go through sprints, and I tell

57:40friends, family, uh hey, I'm going

57:42through a bit of a sprint right now.

57:43We're launching something new.

57:44Um and then there are times where I

57:46switch off a lot. Do you Do you goal set

57:49at all? Do you set goals? And if so,

57:51You know, I used to I used to set goals,

57:53and I used to love setting goals.

57:55I don't anymore because my key person of

57:58influence brand

58:00brings in opportunities that I can't

58:02predict.

58:03So, this Diary of a CEO thing was an

58:05example of that. I had all these goals

58:07for 2024,

58:08and then you message me while I'm skiing

58:11and say, "Would you like to come on the

58:12show?"

58:13And I go, "Of course, that would be

58:14amazing." So, I come on the show, and

58:16then that totally transformed my year.

58:18So, as you build a brand, it's harder to

58:20goal set because you've got too many

58:22things So, goal setting is about direct

58:25power, direct influence.

58:27And um having a brand is about indirect

58:29power, indirect influence. It's what you

58:31attract. So, uh ultimately, at the early

58:34stages, goal setting is really important

58:36because it's how do I direct my energy?

58:39Once you get a little bit bigger, you

58:41have to slow down to speed up. You have

58:43to create space to see what's happening

58:45around you.

58:46One of the biggest mistakes I've ever

58:47made was filling my diary so full

58:52that I didn't see some of the biggest

58:54opportunities that were going on around

58:55me. And I think this has cost me tens of

58:57millions. And I really think at a

58:58certain level, strategically, you have

59:01to slow down to speed up. You have to

59:03create gaps where things can hit you.

59:05Things can get onto your radar. Um or

59:08else you miss all the benefits of having

59:10a great brand. So, I have a few

59:12questions here. One of them is about how

59:14you

59:15measure or quantify the value of an

59:17opportunity looking forward when you

59:19have very little information about the

59:20opportunities.

59:21So, So, what we would what we're trying

59:23to move towards is leverage. So, that we

59:25live in a world of leverage. And there

59:27are types of So, it's important to

59:29understand there are type two types of

59:30opportunities. There's bell curve

59:32opportunities and power law

59:33opportunities. So, bell curve

59:35opportunities means that everything fits

59:36within a bell curve, and it's very

59:38unlikely that anything will be outside

59:40of that bell curve. Power law

59:41opportunities means that because of

59:43leverage, the sky's the limit. Um what

59:46we have to do is have the courage to

59:47move out of bell curves and into power

59:49laws. So, for example, a doctor in the

59:52NHS who I know, um

59:54recognized that all doctors earn roughly

59:56the same amount of money. There's no

59:58outliers. Everyone who works in the NHS,

1:00:00if you're a new doctor, you earn about

1:00:02this. If you've been around for 20

1:00:03years, you earn about this.

1:00:05Um and most people fit within that bell

1:00:07curve. There's no doctors who are making

1:00:08a million a month, um type thing. Then

1:00:11there's the power law law. This

1:00:13particular guy dropped out of being an

1:00:14NHS doctor to become a YouTuber, and

1:00:17recognized that there are some YouTubers

1:00:19who are actually earning a million a

1:00:20month, and

1:00:21boom, there is this power law that goes

1:00:23up. So, what we're trying to find now

1:00:25Ali Abdaal. Yes, of course, Ali Abdaal.

1:00:28So, what we're trying to figure out is

1:00:30we're trying to figure out um

1:00:32is this a bell curve or a power curve

1:00:35power law? So, being a speaker on a

1:00:37stage, absolutely a power law uh move.

1:00:41Being friends with a billionaire in

1:00:42Italy and having access to that capital,

1:00:45access to how whatever networks they've

1:00:47got, all of that sort of stuff, if

1:00:48they're the right sort of person.

1:00:49There's definitely two types of

1:00:51billionaires, but

1:00:52Yeah. um

1:00:53but uh

1:00:55that's probably an exponential

1:00:56opportunity, right? It it it it puts you

1:00:58further up the power law power law. Um

1:01:01it's not a bell curve opportunity. Um

1:01:03however, if someone says, you know, can

1:01:05we meet to talk about some incremental

1:01:07thing? No, that's that's a bell curve,

1:01:09right? That's not going to that's not

1:01:11going to break me out of what I'm doing.

1:01:13So, for most people listening to this,

1:01:14most people are trapped inside a bell

1:01:16curve. You're never going to get out of

1:01:18that bell curve. Every opportunity fits

1:01:20within that bell curve. You're only

1:01:22going to incrementally move to one from

1:01:24one side of the bell curve to the other

1:01:25side of the bell curve, and that's about

1:01:27it. There is no massive upside.

1:01:30If that's you, what you need to be doing

1:01:32is spending a little bit of time talking

1:01:34to people about exponential

1:01:36opportunities, right? And exponential

1:01:38opportunities always involve leverage.

1:01:39That's what creates the exponential

1:01:41shift. Leverage could be fame. Leverage

1:01:43could be capital.

1:01:45Leverage could be large databases.

1:01:47Uh leverage could be huge distribution

1:01:49networks that are already exist.

1:01:51Leverage could be a partnership with

1:01:52someone who's way further along than you

1:01:54are.

1:01:55Uh leverage could be being in business

1:01:56first being in a job. So, all of those

1:01:59things are things that move you onto the

1:02:01power law. And there's it's almost the

1:02:02sky's the limit at the moment because

1:02:05in 2010,

1:02:0728% of the world had fast internet. And

1:02:09in 2025, 70% of the world has fast

1:02:12internet. So, 70% of 8 billion people

1:02:15have got fast internet. So, the world

1:02:18the actual the number of people

1:02:20available to talk to

1:02:22has gone into the billions and billions

1:02:24and billions. The amount of capital is

1:02:26flooding into the internet. Um

1:02:28everything is in that space.

1:02:30And ultimately, unfortunately, one of

1:02:33the things that's happening at the

1:02:33moment is that you're either in

1:02:35competition with everyone in the world

1:02:38or everyone in the world is a is a

1:02:40potential customer.

1:02:41And um if you feel that you're in

1:02:44competition with everyone in the world,

1:02:45which a lot of people do,

1:02:47it's terrifying. It feels horrible. It's

1:02:49it's absolutely uh scary to think that,

1:02:52you know, for a lot of businesses and a

1:02:53lot of individuals with a career, it's

1:02:55like, "Wow, I'm in competition with AI.

1:02:58I'm in competition with an agent uh an

1:03:00agency in India or or a remote worker in

1:03:03the Philippines who's happy for $5 an

1:03:05hour.

1:03:06Um I'm in competition with someone who's

1:03:08phenomenally well funded in LA.

1:03:10Uh I'm in competition with this

1:03:12incredible tech team in Silicon Valley."

1:03:15Mhm.

1:03:16Like YouTubers. YouTubers. I'm competing

1:03:19on the opportunity. I'm competing for

1:03:20attention.

1:03:21Like, how am I going to survive? And

1:03:23then the flip side of that is that once

1:03:25you make this transition to this new

1:03:27rules, new way of doing things,

1:03:29then it flips. It's like, "Oh,

1:03:30everyone's a potential customer." So,

1:03:32how do you think about defense? You

1:03:34know, you many of your businesses that

1:03:36you run, you're in competition with lots

1:03:37of people.

1:03:39Where do you find areas to defend

1:03:41against that competition, the sort of

1:03:42proverbial blue oceans?

1:03:45So, what I'm looking for when when I set

1:03:47up my businesses to scale is we ask the

1:03:49question,

1:03:51"How many people this year

1:03:53could we either

1:03:55uh take on and leave them feeling

1:03:57completely delighted?

1:03:59Uh how many people this year would

1:04:01represent a phenomenally good year?

1:04:02Right? So, in one of the businesses, the

1:04:04number's 600. We say, "Okay, 600 people,

1:04:07if we have 600 people 600 clients in

1:04:10this particular business for this year,

1:04:12that's a really good year. We're happy

1:04:14with that year." So, we call that the

1:04:15official capacity of the business. We

1:04:17give it a name, official capacity is

1:04:19600. Then we ask the question,

1:04:22"What percentage of our leads buy that

1:04:24product?" Mhm. And in that business,

1:04:26it's 1 in 66. So, for every 66 leads we

1:04:29generate, we get one client who's who's

1:04:31the perfect client. So, it's a very

1:04:33particular focus business.

1:04:35So, then we know that we need to engage

1:04:3749,000 people. And if those 49,000

1:04:40people engage with us, then we will be

1:04:42able to select the 600 clients we work

1:04:44with, and that we will absolutely do

1:04:46everything we can to leave those 600

1:04:48people feeling delighted that they want

1:04:50to recommend it and refer it and they

1:04:52love it.

1:04:53And for us, just simply knowing those

1:04:55numbers,

1:04:56that allows us to say, "Ah, okay, we

1:04:58engage 49,000 people. We make our 600

1:05:00sales. It's a super successful year. We

1:05:03can celebrate that." So, by setting the

1:05:05rules to our game, we're not dragged

1:05:07into anybody else's rules. And that

1:05:09means that we're playing uh a really

1:05:11defensive game. We're defending against

1:05:13all the things that we could focus on by

1:05:15being really specific about what we want

1:05:17to focus on. And if you know, for those

1:05:18kids on the promenade in Cape Town that

1:05:20I keep referring back to,

1:05:22if they'd asked you, if they said, uh,

1:05:23"Daniel, what industry would you start a

1:05:27business in today

1:05:29if you were us

1:05:31and you had limited funds?"

1:05:33Well, let let let's do some big trends.

1:05:35The biggest So, biggest opportunity at

1:05:37the moment is 50% of the economy

1:05:41is owned by baby boomers, people aged 61

1:05:44to 79.

1:05:45So, that's 50% of the US economy, 50% of

1:05:48the Australian, the New Zealand, the

1:05:50Canadian, the UK, right? So, all the

1:05:52sort of major Western economies that had

1:05:54a baby boom, 50% of the economy is owned

1:05:57by people aged 61 to 79.

1:06:00Um, so those people are going through a

1:06:02big life change. They're transforming

1:06:04the way they live and work. They want to

1:06:06get rid of their businesses. They want

1:06:08to move into advisory roles. They want

1:06:09to travel. They want to have, uh,

1:06:11different relationships. They want to

1:06:12have different priorities.

1:06:14Um, so I would definitely be thinking

1:06:16about how do I work with that group of

1:06:18people? I'm either going to buy their

1:06:20business and take it over,

1:06:21um, which would be an opportunity. I'm

1:06:23going to build a business that disrupts

1:06:25the current way that they're doing

1:06:26business, um, or I'm going to sell to

1:06:28that market cuz they're cashed up, they

1:06:29got loads of time, loads of money.

1:06:31Um, and every business could think about

1:06:33how it's going to sell to a baby boomer

1:06:35market cuz that's 50%.

1:06:38Um,

1:06:39So, a good example might be

1:06:41of a baby baby boomer business.

1:06:44What's a good baby boomer business?

1:06:46Everything. The whole economy is made up

1:06:48of baby like if we went out on the

1:06:49street here, Yeah. um, the person down

1:06:52the road who's fixing who's doing the

1:06:53MOT on the cars is a baby boomer

1:06:55business. The guy who services the

1:06:57elevators that come up and down here,

1:06:59that's baby boomer. The air conditioning

1:07:00unit business is a baby boomer business.

1:07:03Um, you know, the courier company that

1:07:05kind of dropped everything off, it's a

1:07:06baby boomer business.

1:07:08You know, the whole damn shooting match

1:07:10is like mostly like 50 like half the

1:07:12businesses and especially by revenue and

1:07:14valuation, it's all baby boomers or half

1:07:17baby boomers at least. And then maybe

1:07:19sort of a digital arbitrage opportunity

1:07:21that there's been created with the tran-

1:07:24transfer of

1:07:25with the rise of digital that they might

1:07:27have missed that you could seize upon.

1:07:29It massively

1:07:31Well, one of the things is that every

1:07:33single business in the world is going to

1:07:34be disrupted by AI.

1:07:36And you've got to be the company that

1:07:39uses AI when they're not. And and using

1:07:42AI, like being disrupted by AI just

1:07:45means that every employee is way more

1:07:46effective because they're using AI. So,

1:07:48one of the simple things to disrupt a

1:07:50business with AI is to run a training

1:07:53workshop with all the people in the

1:07:54company about how they could use AI in

1:07:55their role. And you could watch some

1:07:58videos online and you could

1:08:00play with chat GPT. Recently we

1:08:03introduced an AI system to one of

1:08:06our businesses. We have 250 video case

1:08:09studies of clients who are happy

1:08:10customers and they've recorded a video

1:08:12for us.

1:08:13And they're amazing video case studies,

1:08:14but there's too many of them. There's so

1:08:15many video case studies. So, we created

1:08:18an AI bot that reads and understands all

1:08:21of those video case studies

1:08:23and then for my sales team, when they're

1:08:25talking to a customer, they're just

1:08:27typing

1:08:29of they're typing in the type of

1:08:31scenario that that person's going

1:08:33through and the bot is then suggesting,

1:08:35oh, this is the video case study. This

1:08:37is the customer. This is what they said.

1:08:39Same industry as you, same problem, same

1:08:41challenge and then they Here's the link

1:08:43to the video case study. Mhm.

1:08:45So, our sales team can be super

1:08:47effective at sending you through the

1:08:48exact video case study that's relevant

1:08:50to you Mhm.

1:08:51because the AI bot has read and

1:08:53understood every single one of our video

1:08:55case studies.

1:08:56So, that's an example.

1:08:58You know, there's been so many of these

1:08:59technological revolutions over the last

1:09:0250 odd years that I look back on and

1:09:04thought, "Oh gosh, I wish I was there at

1:09:06the dot com boom. I would have become a

1:09:08billionaire. I would have had all, you

1:09:09know, a variety of different ideas." Do

1:09:11you think AI is that now? Do you think

1:09:13we're living through

1:09:14We're We're early. It's so early, right?

1:09:16It's It's the moment.

1:09:18I I remember when Steve Jobs launched

1:09:21the App Store, and that was 2007. 2007,

1:09:242008. It was 2 years later that

1:09:27Instagram was launched. It was 2 years

1:09:29later that Uber was launched. And then

1:09:31there was a march of hundreds of

1:09:32different businesses, and now

1:09:35applications are, you know, everywhere.

1:09:38The The bigger example would be

1:09:40electricity.

1:09:41So, it was the 1830s where we generated

1:09:45electricity, but it wasn't till the

1:09:461930s that we filled our houses full of

1:09:49things that ran on electricity. So, it

1:09:50was a 100-year transition.

1:09:52Um now, with AI, we're at the early

1:09:56stage of generating AI,

1:09:58but we're not yet into the stage of

1:10:01creating everything that runs on AI. So,

1:10:03think about

1:10:04uh a power station versus a toaster.

1:10:07So, the power station's been invented,

1:10:09but there's thousands and thousands and

1:10:11thousands of toasters that can be

1:10:12invented. Toasters, kettles, vacuum

1:10:14cleaners, things that run on

1:10:16electricity. So, AI is like electricity,

1:10:18but we haven't built all the businesses

1:10:20that are going to plug in and are going

1:10:22to be great opportunities. And that's

1:10:24going to be over the next 10 to 15

1:10:25years. Every single industry. You can't

1:10:28name an industry that's not going to be

1:10:29impacted by this. Every industry is

1:10:31going to have applications that run on

1:10:33AI. There's going to be new teams. Do

1:10:35you know what happened just a couple of

1:10:37weeks ago? Uh Nvidia launched a

1:10:39supercomputer for $3,000.

1:10:42Now, this is going to be the fundamental

1:10:44basis

1:10:46for 10 people companies that do a

1:10:48billion of revenue. This is going to be

1:10:50entrepreneurs who who like crunch some

1:10:53data, figure out a little application.

1:10:55Because of that kind of compute power,

1:10:57they're going to come up with something

1:10:58and it's going to be a billion-dollar

1:10:59business with 10 people working on the

1:11:00team. There's going to be a little

1:11:01health care unit that figures out how to

1:11:03crunch data and solve a like a really

1:11:06complex health problem and they'll

1:11:07figure out how to do it. That

1:11:09supercomputer for three grand

1:11:12supersedes what people used to be

1:11:13spending three to six to nine grand a

1:11:15month on. Um so previously, you would

1:11:18have had to subscribe to that level of

1:11:20compute and you would have been

1:11:21spending, you know, $50,000 a year just

1:11:24for the cloud subscription to that sort

1:11:26of thing. Now, one payment of $3,000,

1:11:28you can be anywhere in the world

1:11:30crunching any amounts of phenomenal

1:11:32data. So,

1:11:34just that one thing, that one

1:11:35innovation, is going to totally

1:11:37transform

1:11:38industries.

1:11:40I would imagine that I'm going to guess

1:11:4290

1:11:4495% of people that are listening right

1:11:46now don't know a lot about AI. They also

1:11:49don't really know a lot about technology

1:11:51to the extent that many other people do,

1:11:52the 5% do.

1:11:54For those people who are, you know,

1:11:55could be the taxi driver, it could be

1:11:57the

1:11:58the janitor, it could be student in

1:12:00university studying philosophy or

1:12:02something.

1:12:03What advice would you give them if you

1:12:05were the puppet master of their life now

1:12:07and you had to get them close to this

1:12:09opportunity? What are the the sort of

1:12:10steps you take towards

1:12:12being able to capitalize on something

1:12:14like Nvidia's supercomputer? Yes. So, of

1:12:16course it's a pyramid. So, the schooling

1:12:18system taught you that you the way to be

1:12:21successful was to turn labor into

1:12:22skilled labor. So, become skilled labor.

1:12:25Your time and your skills are what's

1:12:27valuable. And that was the industrial

1:12:28revolution model for everybody. We all

1:12:30went through that system and we said

1:12:31that's where the journey ends. In fact,

1:12:33if you want, you can go to university,

1:12:34become really skilled labor. You can get

1:12:36a master's and become really skilled

1:12:37labor, PhD, become super skilled labor.

1:12:40And the whole goal is sell your time for

1:12:42more money. And then sitting on top of

1:12:43that is this new universe. And the new

1:12:45universe is this digital economy. And

1:12:47the first step above it is called

1:12:49intellectual property.

1:12:51Intellectual property is where, rather

1:12:53than learning more stuff, you reflect

1:12:55and create some stuff. So, you say, "Oh,

1:12:58over the last 5 years, I did something

1:13:00special with that client, um and we got

1:13:02a great result, and I can explain it

1:13:04step by step. I'm going to document

1:13:05that. I'm going to turn that into a

1:13:06story, and I'm going to record a video

1:13:09about it, and I'm going to have a little

1:13:10poster with a wheel that explains how we

1:13:12did that, and then I'm just going to let

1:13:14people know about that. So, now we're in

1:13:16the business of intellectual property.

1:13:18Intellectual property is anything

1:13:20written, anything on video, anything

1:13:21audio, right? So, intellectual property

1:13:23couples up with media. So, IP and media

1:13:26are the next level above skilled labor.

1:13:28So, the first step, get out of skilled

1:13:30labor model, and get into intellectual

1:13:32property and media. And just making that

1:13:35step opens you up to this whole other

1:13:37world of opportunities.

1:13:39Uh if you you you must know the book

1:13:41Seven Habits of Highly Effective People,

1:13:42Stephen Covey. He passed away 10 years

1:13:44ago.

1:13:46He was not some special guy. He was a

1:13:49church leader in Utah. He did some

1:13:51consulting with small businesses, and he

1:13:53did some consulting with churches.

1:13:55But he just reflected on what he'd seen,

1:13:58and he reflected on a few studies that

1:14:00he'd come across, and he wrote this book

1:14:02Seven Habits of Highly Effective People.

1:14:04So, he went from skilled labor

1:14:06consulting to intellectual property and

1:14:08media, which was his written word plus

1:14:10his book publishing. So, that's step

1:14:13one, and mind you, he sold 20 million

1:14:15copies, and he built a $400 million

1:14:16consulting company, but it was based on

1:14:18IP, not labor.

1:14:20So, that's step one. Sitting above that

1:14:23is data and um

1:14:25intellectual property, media, and data,

1:14:27and software. So, once we have IP and

1:14:31media, now we want data and software.

1:14:33So, data is where we build a database,

1:14:37we get email addresses, we get

1:14:38information about customers, we know

1:14:40more about markets, we get people

1:14:42filling in forms, we get people filling

1:14:44in score cards, we start conducting

1:14:46surveys. So, we're capturing data that's

1:14:49unique to us. And then software is the

1:14:52ability to turn our intellectual

1:14:53property into an engine that just

1:14:55automatically delivers a a result. And

1:14:58in that software bucket is the ability

1:15:00to create AI applications.

1:15:03Um so, you're going to have to move your

1:15:04way up that pyramid. And then the final

1:15:06little top of the pyramid is um the

1:15:09ability to create financial assets.

1:15:11Financial assets is where you sell your

1:15:12business for an amount of money. So, you

1:15:14actually package all of that into a

1:15:16business that can be sold. And that

1:15:18business becomes a financial asset. The

1:15:19shares become a financial asset. And

1:15:21then you make a lot of money by selling

1:15:23your company.

1:15:24So, you can't jump straight from being

1:15:26labor or skilled labor straight up to

1:15:28software and data

1:15:30uh and those sorts of things, which is

1:15:31the AI advanced AI stuff. So, you got to

1:15:34go through

1:15:36uh intellectual property, media, data,

1:15:38software. And what you do with your

1:15:40money? So, everyone has a different sort

1:15:42of finance strategy or an investment

1:15:44strategy. What's your investment

1:15:45strategy?

1:15:47Uh I've said to you before that I

1:15:50like I really trust the advice that you

1:15:53can't outperform markets. Markets are

1:15:55everything's already priced into

1:15:56markets. So, for me personally, like I

1:15:59put money into S&P 500. I put it

1:16:02you know, basically things that you'd

1:16:04call a store of wealth.

1:16:06Um

1:16:07I don't think that's particularly

1:16:08exciting. I I'm not

1:16:11you know, some of sometimes I see people

1:16:13talking about like oh, what should

1:16:14someone do if they're earning 50 grand a

1:16:15year to invest?

1:16:17Honestly, it's not going to do anything.

1:16:18Like you you're you're just like

1:16:20obviously do it.

1:16:22But

1:16:23I believe it's far better to take that

1:16:25money and invest it into your key

1:16:27relationships.

1:16:28Um I think it's better to take that

1:16:29money and put it into a startup. Uh like

1:16:32actually you know, buy yourself some

1:16:33time so you can you know, move in what

1:16:35would move into this new economy.

1:16:38Um the thing that excites me most is

1:16:41just creating really valuable

1:16:43businesses. Um I have a group of

1:16:45companies now.

1:16:47Um and

1:16:49let let me explain

1:16:51Here's an idea. The economy doesn't want

1:16:54you to become rich, right? Doesn't want

1:16:55you to accumulate money, right? The

1:16:57whole economy is set up so that you

1:16:58can't get money

1:16:59or you can't keep it.

1:17:01Um

1:17:02and what people think you do to make

1:17:04money is that they think that you take a

1:17:06little piece out of the economy and

1:17:08squirrel it away and store it up. And

1:17:10that's not actually how people become

1:17:12rich.

1:17:13What they do is they create something

1:17:14from their mind and they formalize it

1:17:16into a company and then they get people

1:17:18to invest in that company and that

1:17:20creates new wealth in the economy that

1:17:22didn't exist, never existed. It was a

1:17:24figment of their imagination. And that

1:17:26new wealth, we call that innovation and

1:17:28entrepreneurship.

1:17:29And what happens, and I'll give you a

1:17:31real-life example.

1:17:32So

1:17:34Book Magic is one of my software

1:17:36startups. We raised 400,000 pounds for

1:17:3910%, which means 3.6 million pounds

1:17:42worth of value is new value that never

1:17:44existed. It's just added to the economy.

1:17:46It's this new economic asset called

1:17:47shares in this company. 10% of the

1:17:49shares were 400,000. 3.6 million is the

1:17:53other 90% that doesn't actually exist.

1:17:54It was just a figment of the

1:17:56imagination. So it's it's called

1:17:58innovation and entrepreneurship. Very

1:18:00slowly, that becomes more and more real.

1:18:03And then bigger companies come in and

1:18:05acquire that or people acquire those

1:18:06shares and then it becomes a liquidity

1:18:08event. You get capital.

1:18:10And then you reinvest that capital into

1:18:12creating new things in the economy. So

1:18:14the way rich people become rich is not

1:18:16by squirreling little bits out of the

1:18:18existing economy. It's by creating

1:18:20something new that never existed and

1:18:22slowly introducing that into the

1:18:24economy, right? So it's it's building

1:18:26things that didn't happen exist. So when

1:18:29I hear people trying to

1:18:31you know, get this tiny little bit out

1:18:32of the economy and then they've got to

1:18:34pay taxes on it and then you know, the

1:18:35the UK government wants half of

1:18:37everything and it's it's horrific. You

1:18:39You never like you will just be on this

1:18:41treadmill. You'll never get out of it.

1:18:43But if you can create something and you

1:18:45can have innovation and

1:18:46entrepreneurship, you can build

1:18:47something that's worth 5 million, 10

1:18:49million, 20 million from your mind, from

1:18:52your brain.

1:18:54And then you introduce it and formalize

1:18:55it and it goes into the economy and it's

1:18:57actually a new asset in the economy. And

1:18:59what is the horror that we need to warn

1:19:00people about if they decide to do what

1:19:02you just said?

1:19:03Cuz everything in life has a cost. So,

1:19:06getting me starting a 20 million-dollar

1:19:07company comes with I meet so many

1:19:09founders. I had one in the office

1:19:10yesterday. Um

1:19:11great founder from the UK, young young

1:19:13lady. She's done exceptionally well.

1:19:16She's built a company that I think is

1:19:17going to make 35 million

1:19:18and um she's going through a

1:19:20horrific time.

1:19:22And it came out of her brain. Yeah, the

1:19:25biggest horror is that we were never

1:19:26trained for this. Right. So, all of

1:19:29society is built for the industrial

1:19:31revolution system and it's not built for

1:19:34the um digital revolution system. So,

1:19:38you know, we were told don't be

1:19:39disruptive and yet the disruptors are

1:19:42making all the money. We were told, you

1:19:43know, you can't ask someone

1:19:47to do your homework for you, yet the

1:19:48people who make all the money get

1:19:49someone else to do all their homework

1:19:50for them. We were told um you know,

1:19:55you know, don't be an attention seeker,

1:19:57but attention seekers make all the

1:19:59money. So, there's all of this stuff

1:20:01that we were taught about becoming

1:20:02standardized component labor

1:20:04and that that mindset is always fighting

1:20:07you when you're running a business

1:20:09because over here running a new business

1:20:12it's exciting, it's exhilarating, it's

1:20:14creative, but it feels wrong. Feels like

1:20:16you're doing something like weird

1:20:17because you're outside of the system.

1:20:20Um

1:20:21Yeah, there's no blueprint. There's no

1:20:22clear blueprint that anybody trained you

1:20:24for. Yeah, you didn't certainly didn't

1:20:25know at schooling. So, in fact,

1:20:26schooling system taught you everything

1:20:28wrong. It's the opposite. They wanted

1:20:30you to become standardized component

1:20:32labor and over here you have to be

1:20:33unique intellectual property. Mhm.

1:20:36You're also dealing with platforms that

1:20:37are brand new. Yeah.

1:20:38And and a and also just like a social

1:20:41environment that is brand new. I say

1:20:42that because obviously post-pandemic the

1:20:43rules of work changed.

1:20:45Completely. And the Zoom and technology

1:20:47geography to ideal customer personas in

1:20:50communities. Um so all of our entire

1:20:52economy, in fact, if you think about our

1:20:54governments, our governments are

1:20:56struggling because they define

1:20:57themselves by geography, but the digital

1:20:59world's not defined by geography. So

1:21:01when the government of the UK says,

1:21:02"We're putting up the taxes." All the

1:21:04millionaires go, "Okay, we'll leave."

1:21:07And then they're like, "Oh, no." I mean,

1:21:09Norway did this as well, right? All

1:21:10these multi-billionaires just packed up

1:21:12and left. "Oh, we're introducing a

1:21:13wealth tax." "Okay, bye."

1:21:15You you've commented a lot on this over

1:21:16the last couple of months. What is your

1:21:18position on this? Cuz there's been a lot

1:21:20There's lots going on geopolitically.

1:21:21The UK changed the tax system. US, what,

1:21:24Trump coming in and yeah.

1:21:26Yeah. I mean, he'll be in by the time

1:21:27this podcast is out probably, but Well,

1:21:29my position is that we should collect

1:21:30the most amount of taxes that we can,

1:21:32but the way to do that is with low

1:21:34taxes, not high taxes. Because in a

1:21:36world where people can freely move

1:21:37around, you need to be an attractive

1:21:39place for people to come to.

1:21:41Um

1:21:42you know, people say, "Oh, we don't you

1:21:43know, we don't like rich people." Well,

1:21:45actually rich people pay a lot of taxes.

1:21:471% pay 30%.

1:21:49Uh so you need if you wanted to double

1:21:50the tax base,

1:21:52get a few more of these 1% people to to

1:21:54come here. The UK was thriving when we

1:21:57used to have

1:21:59uh a 10 million dollar SEIS uh or sorry,

1:22:0110 million entrepreneurs 10 million

1:22:03pound entrepreneurs relief. Um

1:22:05you know, made the UK one of the best

1:22:07places to do business. Sorry, just for

1:22:09people that have never experienced

1:22:10entrepreneurs relief. Yeah. Can you

1:22:12explain exactly what that who that

1:22:14impacts and when? Yeah, so essentially

1:22:16entrepreneurs relief acknowledged that

1:22:18entrepreneurs are taking a huge gamble

1:22:20in what they do. They're pouring time,

1:22:23effort, and energy, and resources into

1:22:24their business in an unpaid capacity.

1:22:27And that when they finally get a

1:22:28success, if they get a success,

1:22:30then one of the ways of of acknowledging

1:22:33that risk and making that a good

1:22:34decision is that you only pay 10% tax on

1:22:37the first

1:22:39well, it used to be 10 million um of

1:22:42exit value.

1:22:43Um and

1:22:45now it's on the first 1 million of exit

1:22:47value. So, essentially,

1:22:50if you're paying roughly the same as

1:22:52income tax on starting a company, then

1:22:56for a lot of people, they're just not

1:22:57going to start a company, right? They're

1:22:59not going to take the risk, they're not

1:23:00going to innovate.

1:23:01Um and then the investment also slows

1:23:03down. If people can earn more money by

1:23:04just sitting on their capital and

1:23:06sticking it into a property, they're not

1:23:08going to invest in startups. So, you

1:23:10have to have if you want an economy

1:23:12that's based on actual innovation and

1:23:14change and transformation and AI and

1:23:16software and data and the new economy,

1:23:18you have to incentivize investors to to

1:23:20to do that.

1:23:21Um it's also a globally competitive

1:23:23landscape. So, as

1:23:26you know, Dubai saying, "Hey, we don't

1:23:28even do income tax." Right? And also,

1:23:30when you go to Dubai, tax feels like

1:23:32such a scam because you go, "Wait a

1:23:35second, their police force, their

1:23:36hospitals work, everything's clean,

1:23:38they've got no potholes, their buildings

1:23:39are amazing, No crime. no crime,

1:23:42uh the transport's working, like the

1:23:44whole place is working like clockwork."

1:23:46You go, "But how are they doing this

1:23:47without collecting 45% of the economy as

1:23:50tax?" In the UK, 45%

1:23:53of the entire economy is government

1:23:54spending. Are people leaving the UK?

1:23:5610,000 millionaires left last year. So,

1:23:58when I think about all the really

1:23:59exceptional people that I hired over the

1:24:01last 10, 15 years, every single one of

1:24:03the the truly exceptional ones that I

1:24:05go, "All right, I bet a lot on that

1:24:06person." They all live in Dubai. Mhm.

1:24:08They've all gone. Some of them have

1:24:09moved to America, some of them are

1:24:10working in SF. Well, even America, which

1:24:12is high tax, but you start paying the

1:24:15highest rate of tax at eight times the

1:24:17average wage. Here, you pay the highest

1:24:19rate of tax at three times the average