Full transcript
0:11Robert Bigalow. Um, one of the things we
0:13spoke about in the the first episode of
0:15the Bigalow podcast was about
0:17gatekeepers and you know, you've
0:19established some relationships with some
0:22of these gatekeepers, the the companies,
0:24the corporations that have kept secrets
0:28related to UFOs, crashes, bodies, things
0:31of that sort. They've done what our
0:33government has asked them to do and
0:35they've they've done it for 80 plus
0:36years. Um,
0:39you believe that they should get a pass,
0:42that we should give a preemptive pardon
0:44of some sort, whatever crimes they've
0:46committed or lies that have been told in
0:48in doing what the government asked them
0:50to do, that they should not have legal
0:53liability. Is that right?
0:54>> Well, I think it's it's not that I have
0:56relationships, right,
0:57>> with any [clears throat] of these
0:58people. Um, I think it's more it's just
1:02it's more uh simp it's simpler to me. is
1:05more black and white in that um the
1:08government has been a partner in all of
1:10this since day one. Um so I can't see
1:15how you can blame half of the equation
1:18for uh for not disclosing something that
1:22other people think ought to be
1:23disclosed. Uh it's it's a partnership
1:26hand in hand working hand in hand and um
1:29and yet and and the other part of this
1:31is the salient
1:34value to me
1:36[clears throat] is
1:39how much benefit we can get from them.
1:43Uh that's not from as opposed to an
1:45adversarial kind of posture. And we
1:47should we should have one of of uh of
1:52thank you, of appreciation, of um giving
1:56them uh acknowledgement that um uh
2:00they've been doing uh a lot of work that
2:03that they uh they've had to carry
2:06burden-wise. Um the secrecy and concerns
2:11about different kinds of things. And um
2:15they they really need help. They need
2:18the companies need more money. They need
2:20more scientists involved. But they have
2:22to maintain their secrecy at all costs
2:26because we are comp in competition with
2:28China and Russia on the exact same
2:30thing. And they don't have the concerns
2:32about secrecy that we do in terms of
2:35they can implement any level of of
2:37secrecy that they want. They're not a
2:39free society.
2:42We are a completely free society. Not we
2:45are a free society. Maybe not completely
2:49obviously. Um we have our boundaries as
2:52to freedom of speech as what's proper
2:54and we have to be responsible for what
2:56we do. And um so in in those other
3:00societies they're not and they don't
3:02have those handcuffs. And that was one
3:04of the things that Harry Reid was
3:06concerned about is that we are at a
3:08serious disadvantage. So if we were to
3:11say we're going about this all wrong in
3:13terms of the level of the amount of
3:16information that's disclosed, there
3:18needs to be obvious parameters on that.
3:21It needs to be a process, a step-by-step
3:24uh partial partial process delivery. It
3:26needs to be truthful.
3:29Um and we need to engage, find ways to
3:32engage one of the most important assets
3:34that this country has. It's the
3:36gatekeepers.
3:38and and do it in a way that um is is
3:42really a a uh a great new part new new
3:46era of partnership that has never
3:48existed for 80 years.
3:50>> Do you know or can you guess about the
3:52level of involvement of gatekeepers?
3:54Some of these corporations, aerospace
3:56companies or whatever in the recovery
3:59and reverse engineering operations, for
4:01example, do they go out to crash sites
4:03and gather this stuff up on their own or
4:05do you know? Even if I knew, George, I I
4:07wouldn't say anything, but I don't know,
4:09you know. I I I be just speculating like
4:12anybody.
4:12>> I I guess when we're talking about sort
4:14of a preemptive pardon, it would depend
4:16on what they've done, right? I mean, in
4:18UFO world, you know, the stories about
4:20witnesses being intimidated that go back
4:22to Roswell. Death threats. I I can tell
4:25you now, currently, uh people who have
4:28stepped forward to be whistleblowers and
4:30share information get death threats.
4:32Their homes are broken into. Um they're,
4:35you know, that somebody will sneak in in
4:37the middle of the night, rearrange
4:38stuff. Uh they they're unemployable. Um
4:41I don't know that anybody's ever been
4:43murdered over this, but I suppose, you
4:45know, that might be an exception to a
4:47blanket pardon, or would you think it
4:49has to be a case by case kind of a
4:51thing?
4:52>> I think it's the level of that
4:54[clears throat] is something the
4:55president of the United States ought to
4:56be addressing. Um,
4:59and uh I think that
5:02um it's it's not up to me. It's not for
5:05me to to to
5:07[clears throat] suggest anything or uh I
5:09think it's a presidential initiative
5:11that needs to happen. I would say he
5:14needs to
5:16give a preemptive pardon, but it has to
5:18be on a case-byase basis. It has to be
5:21on what exactly is it because national
5:24secrets are not to be taken lightly.
5:26Yeah. That's not something that you can
5:28take lightly. Um, our adversaries
5:32benefit. Uh, they're the ones that
5:33really benefit. For the American public,
5:35it's just pure simple poultry uh
5:38entertainment is what it is. But for
5:42from a from a national security
5:44standpoint, it's very very serious.
5:46>> There is a race for this technology,
5:47right? US, the Russians, the Chinese.
5:50Are there other countries you think that
5:51are that have recovered materials that
5:53are trying to figure it out? Well, if
5:55they're making breakthroughs and we're
5:56not, that's that's a a very serious
5:59problem. If we've made more progress
6:02than they have, we can live with that
6:04because we we we have I think a higher
6:07standard of ethics than um than as a
6:11whole than China and Russia do. That's
6:12just my opinion. I think I think we do.
6:14I think as a country uh we our standards
6:17which we have to covet and and really
6:20protect our are our our ethics and our
6:22standards in our nation.
6:24>> Let's say uh the US government something
6:27crashes in New Mexico. The US government
6:29scoops it up. They want to take it
6:31somewhere where somebody with some
6:32expertise can try to reverse engineer it
6:34or figure it out. They give it to
6:36company X and company X has had it all
6:39these years. They've tried to make
6:40progress. Maybe they have made progress.
6:43Would whatever they develop out of that
6:46technology belong to them or does it
6:47belong to the American public or does it
6:50somehow split among both? As a business
6:53guy, what would you think?
6:56>> I think um there are other examples of
6:59federal private partnerships that are
7:01perfectly legal. Um [clears throat] and
7:05uh there and so I think it falls into
7:07that domain of a federal private
7:10partnership and that means there's joint
7:12ownership. The idea of of a blanket
7:15pardon or some sort of a pardon for the
7:18a preemptive pardon for the gatekeepers
7:20the corporations that have been involved
7:21in this um raised a lot of questions
7:24among our viewers. the first episode
7:26that came out, people wondered what does
7:28Robert Bigalow think about
7:29whistleblowers because some brave people
7:31have stepped forward with bits and
7:33pieces of the story, things that they
7:35saw while they're working um uh in
7:38classified programs and they want to
7:40tell the world. president came out and
7:42said you are here by release from your
7:45non-disclosure agreement,
7:46[clears throat] but that isn't the same
7:47as saying you can speak publicly about
7:50what you saw u because they could still
7:52be prosecuted as a violation of their uh
7:55of their classification. Uh what do you
7:57think about them? What should be done
7:59with them?
7:59>> Well, George, I think well what comes to
8:02my mind right away is precedent in terms
8:05of where do you stop? So it it's it's a
8:08it's a categorical issue. Um, it's one
8:12thing to [clears throat] be talking
8:14about the UFO subject and
8:18what you've seen uh that you're willing
8:22to talk about, but you've signed some
8:25security oath about doing that and you
8:28want to violate that oath. Um, or you
8:31feel that that oath is no longer binding
8:33because it had a a termination period on
8:35it, but maybe there is no termination
8:38period. Now shift to something that's
8:43entirely different that involves
8:45national security and you have a person
8:50that's calling themselves a
8:51whistleblower on something that is
8:53classified secret um about a new
8:58[clears throat]
8:59capability that a destroyer or
9:02battleship has uh or a submarine more
9:05than likely has. that is that's very
9:08very new and and yet that person is
9:11going to disclose that. Um
9:15two very different situations, but the
9:18person might call themselves a
9:19whistleblower.
9:22And so the person that's the in the
9:25second instance has prostituted
9:28himself or herself under the cloak of
9:32being a whistleblower when in fact
9:34they're disclosing a national secret
9:36about a military application and they
9:39turn into being a traitor.
9:43um or we're at war and someone is
9:46disclosing something that is is is
9:50uh puts them in a category of a traitor,
9:54then it is even far more serious because
9:57then they have they may have caused
9:59people to die or they have disclosed
10:01names of membership. And so, you know,
10:04imagine all the names and private
10:07information of secret classified people
10:11that work in
10:13intel organizations.
10:15That would be disastrous. That person is
10:17an absolute traitor. There's no question
10:19about it. They're not a whistleblower.
10:21So, it's a case by case, genre by genre
10:24kind of category thing. And I think in
10:26the UFO instance, which is what we're
10:28really talking about, is something that
10:30the president of the United States needs
10:32to address and and decide
10:36what should be done.
10:38>> You know, there are very clear national
10:39security implications. There's no
10:41getting around it. The technology
10:43itself, if we could duplicate it, I
10:45mean, it'd be world changing if we could
10:48duplicate what they do, what we've
10:49documented that they do in the sky,
10:51whoever they are, wherever they're from.
10:53The Russians came to that conclusion a
10:54long time ago. We've talked about the
10:56Russian UFO programs. They've seen uh
10:59UFOs
11:01set off their their missiles or at least
11:03enter the launch control codes and and
11:05fire them up ready to go. We've seen our
11:07missiles be shut down and they're very
11:09clear national security implications. So
11:11the race for the technology is a very
11:14serious thing and it makes sense that
11:16there is UFO espionage and UFO counter
11:19intelligence by governments. You've been
11:22on the receiving end of that. There were
11:23some spies, right?
11:24>> Yeah.
11:25>> Yeah. In the early days of we had three
11:27Israeli spies in our aerospace company.
11:30We had seven our seven our telephones
11:32were bugged, including mine in in locked
11:35offices, you know, and FBI was involved.
11:38And it was kind of funny because the FBI
11:41FBI was trying to put locators under
11:43cars, you know, and my security guys
11:46kept catching them and catching them.
11:48And the FBI was complaining to me that
11:50we can't we can't locate these. We can't
11:53do what we're trying to do here because
11:55your men keep catching what what we're
11:57trying to do. You know, your guys are
11:58pretty thorough. I said, 'Well, why
12:01don't you just let me handle it and I'll
12:03talk to my guys and we'll plant them for
12:05you. No, we we don't want to do that.
12:08So, we uh and we were told not to
12:11terminate these people. So, I had to
12:14sequester these three these three guys
12:17in ways in which they were not working
12:19on something that was sensitive. You
12:22know,
12:23>> you think they were looking at big
12:24aerospace and your inflatable habitats
12:26or UFO related research you're doing?
12:28>> Of course they were. Of course they
12:30were. But after after about a month and
12:32a half, I'd had enough of it. I said, I
12:33can't I can't continue to do this. So I
12:36said, I have to terminate these people.
12:38And one of them had already been uh had
12:40been successful at another company
12:42before he came to us in causing some
12:45problems. And that's how the FBI knew
12:47about this guy. And then he had these
12:49other two people along with him that
12:51they didn't know about.
12:52>> You ever get a hint that there were
12:53Russians or Chinese or any other foreign
12:55agents around the ranch? Because I know
12:57like back to Roswell, it was a nest of
13:00of Russian spies at that time and it
13:02made sense because we had our atomic
13:04bomber wing in Los Alamos, Indiana.
13:06>> Well, nations spy on each other. I think
13:08the most proliferate successful one is
13:10China. They're really good at it. You
13:12know, our our patent office is a civ.
13:15Nobody in their right mind patents
13:16anything unless it's fairly simple and
13:20it's not really really really really
13:22trick. Otherwise, you it's going to be a
13:24trade secret and you don't patent it
13:26because they know within within minutes
13:29anything that's in it goes through the
13:31patent office what's there, what's been
13:32filed. And so they're not obligated to
13:35foreign nations are not obligated to uh
13:38to behave in the same way about
13:40acknowledging our patents, American
13:42patents. you're going to have to have
13:43patents in every single country. And uh
13:46and the laws, you know, in in protecting
13:50that that preserving that asset are much
13:53different country by country by country.
13:56A lot of folks explained to me that the
14:00China way of thinking, Chinese way of
14:02thinking is that uh anything that you
14:04create, they can copy. It's fair game.
14:07that you're you're silly and stupid. If
14:09you know that something is a much better
14:12function, it has a much greater
14:14functionality to it and you don't copy
14:16it and you're a foreign country or
14:19whatever and it'd be silly for you not
14:20to copy the the thing. So, they look at
14:23it as that some of our patent
14:24restrictions are silly in that kind of
14:27sense. We we we say it's private
14:29property. We believe in private
14:31enterprise. We believe in ownership of
14:35what you create and trying to kick the
14:38government out of your hair, out of your
14:40out of your wallet the best you possibly
14:41can and uh and hanging on to your money.
14:44Uh other countries philosophies are much
14:47different.
14:49>> You you deserve a lot of credit for
14:51taking the initiative to go to President
14:53Trump and telling him about UFOs. I
14:56mean, there's risk there that he'd say,
14:58"You're crazy. Get out of here." But you
15:00you took it. You you prepared a report
15:02for him. You presented in a very sober
15:04and serious manner. And whether you take
15:07credit for it or not, within a matter of
15:09weeks after your meeting with him back
15:10in February, he started taking action on
15:13UFOs and releasing documents and videos.
15:16And he's uh he's reduced the the the
15:19stigma and the possibility that people
15:21could be prosecuted for sharing
15:23information. I mean, it's a really big
15:24deal. I guess the question is, you know,
15:26by the way, the day that that episode
15:29was released to the public
15:31>> and aired on KAS and on Mystery Wire,
15:34Trump came to town.
15:35>> He was here that night. We ran it at
15:3811:00 on our newscast [clears throat]
15:39thinking maybe he'll watch some local
15:41news while he's in town.
15:43>> And I was hoping he would call you the
15:44next day. He didn't call.
15:45>> Yeah, he didn't call. Phone didn't ring.
15:48So,
15:49>> well, I hope you sent a link to your the
15:52interview to the people you know as
15:54administration so they'll take a look at
15:56it and maybe he'll call down the road.
15:57>> I don't bother them unless it's
15:59important.
16:01>> Pretty important.
16:02>> Yeah, but not quite.
16:03>> How do you keep How do you keep him on
16:06the straight and narrow and keep him
16:08informed on this topic when so many in
16:10his own government will try to thwart
16:12that? You've seen it. We talked about it
16:14before with OAP. Once the word was out
16:16that OAP existed, the knives came out
16:18and people tried to cut the knee
16:20kneecaps off. Yeah.
16:21>> And you know, and we've seen
16:24>> the great work that Jay Stratton did at
16:26the UAP task force. They took all these
16:28cases, boiled them down to 144 really
16:32well doumented cases and they said 143
16:35of these are not explainable. They're
16:36real. They're real objects. And then UAP
16:39task force goes away. Arrow comes in and
16:42Arrow explains it all away. Their job is
16:45counter intelligence and make this to go
16:46away, right? Yeah,
16:47>> seems like it.
16:48>> Yeah.
16:49>> And they're good at it. You have to clap
16:51and applaud. They're good at it and
16:53they've been good at it for 80 years,
16:55you know, regardless of who's in charge,
16:57who's died, who's come and gone and and
16:58retired and so on. Um, it's really been
17:02consistent. And the same thing with the
17:04tipping point of the reveal uh about uh
17:08UAPs uh
17:10>> from ODNI
17:11>> well doing exhibitions beyond the
17:13tipping point and not quite getting
17:14there because they have it's been
17:17audacious as to how what they've been
17:18able to get away with
17:20>> without a confirmation or disclosure all
17:23these eight decades. It's amazing
17:26they've been able to do that. It it's
17:29nobody no it's like a cattle mutilation.
17:32There's never been a prosecution or or
17:34anybody caught, right? It's the most
17:35successful um um crime that exists,
17:41right? Nobody's been caught. So,
17:44[clears throat]
17:45after all these years, you have missile
17:47silos shut down. Other ones become
17:48active, you know, hot. The missiles are
17:50hot. It's like they're scratching their
17:52heads and they're saying, "What the
17:54[clears throat] hell do we have to do
17:56next in order to be recognized? We we
17:59have everything going on the crop
18:00circles and crowd mutilations and Doug
18:02and Dave didn't do all the crop circles
18:04obviously you know and we know that
18:06firsthand as researchers but
18:09[clears throat] um it's it's like wow
18:12these these uh human these human beings
18:15are really tough to they we we're having
18:19a hard time getting noticed.
18:21Did you did you [clears throat] tell uh
18:23the president that you think they're
18:25ETSs or is that the assumption going in?
18:28They're they're aliens, alien to us. You
18:30think they're ETS?
18:31>> Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
18:32>> At least some of what we're interacting
18:34with are ETSs.
18:35>> Yeah. Sure.
18:35>> Did he have trouble with that? And I'm
18:37asking this because I've seen
18:38[clears throat] other people who've said
18:40they've had these conversations and uh
18:42President Trump has said basically the
18:44Fermy paradox. Okay. Where are they? Did
18:47he say that? So where are they? Oh, you
18:49can't say what he told you. But
18:53that question has to come up.
18:55>> Well, [clears throat] that that is not
18:57an illogical back that's not an
19:00illogical retort because a person's done
19:04no research. The world is a completely
19:07different world and they haven't gotten
19:09into the subject at all for whatever
19:11reasons. They've been totally
19:13preoccupied by other kinds of subjects.
19:17Uh [clears throat]
19:18so um they haven't given any thought to
19:21it. They don't know anything. They've
19:24never they it's like trying to you know
19:28tell somebody about brain surgery and
19:31they know nothing about what to do
19:34anything. So um I don't [snorts] I don't
19:38fault anybody for saying where are they?
19:41It's just that maybe they don't have a
19:44lot of imagination, you know, much or
19:46maybe that doesn't take that much. But
19:50in today's world with the media, with
19:52with what's on on the television, all
19:54the different programming,
19:56boy, you have to really be in your own
19:58world not to have some exposure to being
20:02at least really curious.
20:05>> What's the evidence that they're ET? I'm
20:07asking in this context our mutual friend
20:10a guy we both respect uh greatly Dr.
20:12Jacqu Valet, I remember in the first
20:14interview I ever had with him in 1990,
20:17he said, "Look, these things, the
20:19technology that they've demonstrated,
20:21they can manipulate spaceime in ways
20:23that we can't imagine. But if they can
20:25do what we think they can do, they could
20:27be ET, they could be interdimensionals,
20:29they could be time travelers, they could
20:31be something else more exotic, they
20:33could be all of the above. What makes
20:35you think that they're most likely ET?"
20:37>> Well, you have to define what is
20:39extraterrestrial,
20:41[clears throat] you know? Um and and I
20:43think that's the extraterrestrial answer
20:46is that it's a big basket. It has a lot
20:49of potential.
20:50It [clears throat]
20:51if you can manage and manipulate
20:53spaceime uh you can be time traveler. So
20:58um uh but and that is how you can get
21:03you can cross vast distances you know
21:06that normal is that isn't normal in our
21:08physics. Um, so, uh,
21:14I I think that that doesn't mean
21:16[clears throat] that they aren't there
21:17aren't other that a lot of people try to
21:20say, well, these are
21:24angels [clears throat] or demons or
21:26there are other kinds of
21:28characterizations of what ET is. Um,
21:33I think there's a sharing of the of the
21:36dimension of spaceime.
21:38So
21:40it is there's a coexistence
21:44between other intelligent
21:47other intelligences
21:50um
21:52that aren't [clears throat] really
21:53thought of as the normal parochial ET
21:57which we we've we've have evidence
22:01exists in from from abductees for
22:04example what they have seen on board
22:06>> and they've seen
22:08you know, a number of different
22:09varieties of intelligent beings on
22:12board.
22:14There has been communication, right,
22:16them to us wherever they're from. And
22:19and often these beings, at least
22:21according to abductees or experiencers,
22:23they say these beings conveyed to them
22:26telepathically, I guess, that they were
22:28from Zetaiculi or Sirius or something
22:32like that. Um,
22:34I guess the question is how do you trust
22:36them to tell you the truth? How how do
22:38you how would we know that that's
22:40they're being accurate and that's who
22:42they are? And and you you and I have had
22:44this conversation about the ranch, for
22:46example, attempts at communication at
22:48the ranch, which we'll dig into in great
22:50detail. How do you know who you're
22:53talking to at the ranch? And and with
22:55mediums, how do you know who you're
22:56talking to? So Eric Davis and Colin
23:00Keller were on the ranch and every kind
23:01of buddy everybody kind of knows about
23:03this particular event and Colin is
23:05there. It's nighttime is it's maybe kind
23:08of a there's ambient light because Eric
23:11is drawn to something that's co-mingled
23:13in the tops of the of the very tall
23:15cottonwood trees. They were maybe 50
23:17feet 60 feet high.
23:21column is watching these balls of light
23:23bounce [clears throat] around near the
23:26the the um little uh creek bed where the
23:31Russian olives are uh on the on on the
23:35[clears throat] grass grassy area of the
23:37ranch there. And uh
23:41um so he's distracted and Eric gets this
23:47telepathic communication.
23:49Um
23:51we see you. We are aware of you.
23:53Something to that event.
23:56The interesting thing to me isn't so
23:58much that
24:01I'm that's that's not so that that isn't
24:04what's interesting that it occurred
24:06telepathically or that they said that
24:11and they are aware that that's going to
24:13be reported what they said
24:17um because they know why we were there.
24:21What's interesting is they didn't say we
24:23want you to leave immediately.
24:26or just flat.
24:29Leave now. Leave leave this area now.
24:33That wasn't what was said.
24:37just they're watching
24:39>> and you only get that don't come any
24:41closer in as a cousin to leave now in
24:45the turquoise balls of energy
24:50which also put a fear in you that you're
24:52going to die and that that fear is is
24:55such a conscious impact that do you have
24:57no one doubt people tell me that you
25:00have no doubt that that you will die
25:02>> so those orbs those those swirling
25:05liquid looking glass orbs
25:07turquoise. Yeah, the turquoise ones
25:10>> somehow
25:12attached itself to the fear fight or
25:14flight kind of a thing and would drive
25:16people right to their knees, right? It
25:18they manipulated.
25:19>> Yeah. You might have a a uh microwave
25:22type of application that could do that
25:25to lay lay have an army lay all down on
25:28their on the ground, but you're dis what
25:30you're doing is messing with their all
25:33of their motor mechanisms and and uh
25:36disorientation
25:37and and causing a colossal
25:41disorientation of where they are in that
25:43kind of or pain maybe at the same time.
25:47This was different. This was something
25:49that
25:52knew exactly how to affect your brain.
25:57Um,
25:59or it might have been and there's a
26:01difference between mind and brain. And
26:03in the subject of consciousness, they're
26:05not the same. You can be brain dead and
26:08still have still have a mind, still have
26:11a consciousness. And near-death
26:14experiencers experience that.
26:18So long as your brain has oxygen and you
26:19know so long as blood is there. But um
26:23so something is able to do that that
26:26makes you absolutely believe it.
26:29Absolutely [clears throat] believe it.
26:30And and so um
26:34but um they you know it didn't say leave
26:39this area
26:41you know leave leave now leave this
26:43area. It just says we're watching you.
26:45There was an incident during the OSAP
26:48period where a a couple of intelligence
26:50officers are walking into the middle
26:52homestead. Suddenly the temperature
26:54drops like 20 25 degrees. It gets cold.
26:57Yeah.
26:57>> They see this real dark like a black
26:59hole in front of them and they got a
27:02message. They they were froze. They
27:03froze and their message was don't come
27:06any closer. Something like that.
27:07>> Do you recall that?
27:10>> I don't.
27:10>> Okay. Um, but there were other
27:13communications or attempts to
27:15communicate at the ranch. It was one of
27:16your primary goals. You you conducted a
27:19number of different kinds of experiments
27:21to try to engage with them. Correct.
27:23>> I did. I did [clears throat] some some
27:25very private ones um in that it wasn't
27:29part of our menu of experiments that we
27:32that we that we uh we had created
27:36different kinds of things to be acted
27:38upon.
27:39And so, [clears throat] but I wanted to
27:42do something a little bit more
27:44sophisticated in um
27:48and [clears throat]
27:49I wanted to um be able to change
27:53something in real time and be aware of
27:56it and not be there.
27:59And so I would be 500 miles away and be
28:03able to act upon something with people
28:07uh photographing without being told.
28:10They were they were told where to point
28:12their cameras and when in real time by
28:17me and then um I would I would be able
28:22to to see I by asking them what's on
28:24this what do you see on the camera that
28:26that you just you took photos and what
28:29do you see that you just took a photo of
28:31and they would describe it to me and you
28:35either had been successful or I hadn't
28:36been successful. You have something in
28:38mind like a shape or something like that
28:40and you're thinking it. They're on the
28:43other end taking pictures, right? They
28:44don't know what the shape is that you
28:46have in mind.
28:46>> Right. Right.
28:47>> Did it work?
28:48>> It did. Yeah. [clears throat] In in one
28:50series of of experiments, I I was
28:53successful
28:55three out of three times. And the fourth
28:57time I was only partially successful
28:59because I got I got cavalier. I got
29:03careless. I lost my sincerity because it
29:07was too easy and I lost my sincerity and
29:10I lost my my my
29:13focus [clears throat]
29:14for a second or two and it was only
29:17partially successful and it was all my
29:19fault.
29:21Do you want to give some details on
29:23that?
29:23>> Not not not yet. No.
29:26>> But I mean throughout the time that NIDS
29:28and into OAP you were trying to
29:30communicate with whatever it was that
29:32was there. There were there were smaller
29:34experiments you did that was was
29:36fascinating that the the ball and jacks
29:38thing. Can you tell that story?
29:39>> Yeah, that was that was really great. Uh
29:42and and [clears throat] all these things
29:43are educational at multiple levels. When
29:45you have a demonstration is so neat that
29:48not just not just maybe one thing has
29:50happened. It's like holy cow four or
29:52five things all happened at once. And
29:54there's a there's a menu here of
29:55different kinds of things that happen.
29:57The ball and jacks were example of that.
30:00So, [clears throat] um, one of our
30:02security guys, I won't name names, and
30:04and, uh, uh, but Jean Deetsz, she's
30:07since passed away, was our our manager.
30:11Um, Richard was kind of along for the
30:13ride. She was the the main muscle and
30:16and the fearless one. and and uh so we
30:20said, "Okay, let's set up this
30:22experiment on the kitchen table." And
30:25it's going to be a ball and jacks. And
30:27uh the ball is about the size of a golf
30:29ball. And the jacks are proportionally
30:32large. So they're not little miniature
30:34toys, but they're large enough. And they
30:36were all multicolored. And they were
30:38multicolored in pairs.
30:40And so when [clears throat] the
30:42experiment was set up um
30:46and we have before and after photographs
30:48of course um we [clears throat] um we
30:52set it up where
30:54they they set it up to where it was a
30:56ring and the ball was in the center of
30:58the ring of the jacks
31:01and it wasn't a neatly assembled ring or
31:05anything. They had just assembled a ring
31:07and and then they left the the uh the
31:10kitchen uh table area and went outside
31:14just on the back door onto the deck. And
31:17then they came 30 seconds later they
31:18came back in. There was no change.
31:20Nothing happened. So they go back out
31:23again and u but this time they wait
31:26about a minute and they come back and
31:29everything has changed. Now it's a
31:32horseshoe. The ball is outside the
31:35horseshoe
31:36several inches.
31:38The horseshoe is per neatly shaped.
31:44All of the jacks are in color. All the
31:47color jacks are paired in colors.
31:50The red with the red, the silver with
31:52the gold with the gold, and the green
31:54with the green and so on. And um so it
31:58was much better done, much more neat and
32:01carefully done. So the guy, our guy
32:05jumps up and down and sees if he can do
32:07anything to bounce the table around, you
32:09know, with heavy being jumping up and
32:11down right next to the table. There's no
32:13way. And they didn't hear anything,
32:15right? They were just outside the the
32:17door. They didn't go away 30, 50 ft.
32:19They're right alongside the door.
32:21>> Was he able to make it move?
32:22>> Nothing. Nothing whatsoever.
32:23>> There's nobody else there.
32:24>> Nobody else there at all.
32:26>> It's [clears throat] a ranch. It's the
32:26middle of nowhere.
32:27>> It's in it was in the double wide
32:28trailer and there was nobody else there.
32:30Just them. This was a This was
32:33communication of a sort.
32:35>> Well, yeah. It's fun because you're
32:37[clears throat] you It is communication.
32:40You're playing a game and a lot of this
32:42is about gaming. A lot of this is it's
32:46not to cause to cause harm.
32:49Most [clears throat] of the the
32:52ET stuff isn't to cause harm. That's not
32:56the intent. Harm has been caused.
33:00People have acquired cancer from balls
33:04of light. Um they have they they have
33:08caused you know the the [clears throat]
33:10radiation effect of the craft has
33:13produced cancer. Um
33:18harm has been I don't think it's been a
33:21byproduct but not intentional by
33:24>> so it's being in proximity to the
33:25phenomena as opposed to
33:26>> with coloris island aside that is a real
33:29anomaly. what happened in Brazil,
33:31Calaris Island, because that was all
33:33deliberate. Those people were hurt and
33:36and harmed and uh I think in a couple
33:39instances perhaps killed in that
33:41episode. Um the Jacques Filet
33:44investigated that personally and so did
33:47I.
33:47>> Oh, and you did too.
33:48>> I went down to Colaris two years ago.
33:49>> Was your conclusion that it was
33:51intentional?
33:51>> It was intentional. that it seemed to be
33:53a um a sampling project that these these
33:57beams of light that
33:58[clears throat and cough] were shot at
33:58them weren't laser beams to attack them.
34:00It was inside those beams of light was a
34:02filament that stuck in their skin and
34:05took blood samples and tissue.
34:08>> I wasn't aware of that particular
34:09feature. I was aware that they caused
34:11marks, but I thought they were burn
34:13marks.
34:14>> Yeah, they're kind of like a burn mark,
34:15but it was a pro these prongs from these
34:18filaments that took up blood samples.
34:21And uh
34:21>> so the filaments were removed back into
34:24the craft.
34:24>> They weren't left behind as
34:26>> as something to analyze. That's a shame.
34:30>> Um back to the ranch, you did other
34:32experiments uh from the beginning to try
34:34to communicate. There were
34:35[clears throat] things like blocks,
34:36right? You were hoping that it would do
34:38something.
34:38>> Sure.
34:39>> Sure.
34:40>> But you still didn't know really what
34:41you were communicating with.
34:43>> No, but you're establishing a rapport,
34:46right? You're establishing a rapport.
34:48And it [clears throat] might be that
34:53the same thing with a dog or a cat.
34:56You're establishing a a embryionic
34:59relationship.
35:02You know, so much of what happened at
35:03the ranch, the the incidents, it was
35:05clearly confounding because it never
35:07happened the same.
35:09Whatever that intelligence is, it was
35:11allowing you to see these demonstrations
35:13is what you call them. Yeah. It would
35:15allow you to see them, but they'd never
35:17happen the same again. They wouldn't be
35:18in the same spot,
35:19>> right?
35:20>> They allowed you to see them, but not
35:22really document them,
35:24>> right? I mean, you couldn't document it.
35:26It happened again in the same way at the
35:27same place.
35:28>> So, before we get into the camera thing.
35:31>> Sure.
35:31>> And [clears throat] you know, um,
35:34so, um, you could say exact same thing
35:38about count cow cattle cow mutilations.
35:40Cow mutilations.
35:42Um, they're all demonstrations.
35:47Um,
35:49I can't imagine there are too many
35:51aliens walking around with boots that of
35:53cowhide that's colorful. You know, maybe
35:56they've watched our western movies and
35:58they want a pair of those cowboy boots
36:00and so they take down a cow or two.
36:03So, and so nothing is harvested
36:06particularly except yeah, you've had
36:09certain things cred out and you've had
36:11high heat uh close the the uh
36:16the tissues um like a laser effect and
36:21eyeballs have been cred out the diameter
36:23of a of a of a pencil. Um
36:28and I understood one time there was a
36:32>> [clears throat]
36:32>> um a heart extracted and the paricardium
36:36was intact.
36:39So
36:40[clears throat] to me these are all
36:43demonstrations,
36:44>> right?
36:45And we had the calf thing which was
36:48really interesting. Terry had and his
36:50wife had seen that calf and its and its
36:53cow mother um 30 minutes before they saw
36:57the mutilation of the cow of the calf
37:00and and what attracted them that
37:02something was wrong was from a distance
37:04they saw the cow walking around in
37:06circles and really agitated. So they
37:10drove over there and saw the cow's calf
37:14stretched out, all four legs, no blood.
37:19Uh, and it was it was uh all the tissue
37:24was missing.
37:26Not just the blood, but a lot of tissue
37:28was missing from its ribs. And um
37:32so
37:34there was a substantial difference in
37:36what the probable weight of the calf was
37:39before the mutilation and what the
37:41weight was after the mutilation. So a
37:44lot of mass and blood had been
37:47>> was there an animal that did this and
37:48ate 75 pounds of meat.
37:50>> Well, we did the forensics on bones and
37:55it was confusing.
37:57We had impact sites of on the bones on
38:02one on one particular bone. I think it
38:05was a a ribbone. Um the um there was a
38:12cleavage impact
38:14u like an axe or a large knife or
38:19something sharp implement on the same
38:22bone. There were tooth marks,
38:29>> teeth or instruments?
38:32>> Both. There was an instrument that was a
38:35cleavage cut.
38:38There was another cut uh that was from a
38:42fang or a tooth.
38:45No tracks. No tracks. No anything else.
38:49It was again the demonstration. I we
38:51took I took it as as a demonstration.
38:55First of all, how to extract a lot of
38:57blood from a cow like that and there's
38:58nothing left on the ground or you know
39:02the cow had been airborne because um
39:06[clears throat] the you know there there
39:07are no no tracks or anything around and
39:11the ground uh isn't isn't uh isn't
39:14disturbed or it looks like as though the
39:16cow's been dropped. So there's still
39:19snow underneath the the animal.
39:22>> Your your team, your investigators, you
39:25had a tracker, a professional tracker
39:26that came in, look for animal tracks,
39:29vehicle tracks, human tracks, didn't
39:30find any of those. Um your your team
39:33sort of came to a conclusion that this
39:35may have this calf had been taken
39:37somewhere else, carved up and brought
39:38back and dropped there. Is that right?
39:41Um [clears throat]
39:45I don't recall that that I I yes to the
39:48to the fellow um who was uh worked for
39:53me in a different capacity but he was a
39:56professional tracker and hunter.
40:00Um but he worked in a different
40:02capacity. Um
40:04>> your hitman probably, you know.
40:06>> Yeah. [laughter] Right. Uh so um
40:12you had the incidents of of the animals
40:14in the tree, the eyes in the tree and so
40:15on, that kind of thing. And uh and
40:20footprints that kind of went nowhere,
40:22but um I don't remember as far as the
40:24the calf situation that the conclusion
40:27was it had been uh assaulted someplace
40:31else and mangled and mutilated someplace
40:33else and then put there. I don't
40:35remember that.
40:35>> I think that was maybe Dr. Colum
40:37Kellaher's guess is because the rancher
40:39and his wife were there. They were yards
40:41away Sunday morning bright. There was no
40:44one else out there. It's quiet. This
40:46thing happened that and there was no
40:48sound. So it the guess was that it was
40:51taken somewhere, carved up and brought
40:54back and dropped there because otherwise
40:56the dogs, the rancher, his wife would
40:58have heard something going on or seen
41:00it.
41:00>> So keep in mind, you're we're talking
41:01about something that can manipulate time
41:04and space.
41:06They can manipulate sound.
41:08So you could be in the cone of silence
41:10and not hear anything. It's possible
41:13that you can be isolated
41:15>> and you're completely unaware of
41:17anything outside of you.
41:20Um there are different ways that we can
41:23imagine things can can happen. So I
41:26wouldn't conclude necessarily that it
41:28had been taken someplace else for that
41:31to happen. Uh 30 years ago this month,
41:35what the 30 years ago almost exactly at
41:37the time we're Go ahead.
41:38>> I'm sorry. Never mind.
41:39>> 30 30 years ago this month right now as
41:41we're talking at the ranch. Um the
41:45rancher sees this blue turquoise orb
41:49lead his dogs out across the pasture in
41:52Homestead One and zapped them and all he
41:54ever found of those dogs were these
41:57gooey puddles. Another demonstration. I
42:00just wonder what is the message from
42:02that. Harry showed me those showed me
42:04later showed me what the remnants of
42:07what was left of those dogs and uh so
42:11I'm sorry. So the question
42:12>> so what's the what what's being
42:14communicated there? We could do this to
42:15you if we wanted to. We could carve up
42:17you instead of cat cattle zap you
42:20instead of dogs.
42:23It's not clear to me what was
42:25communicated
42:26um
42:29because it's more of a
42:33human animal reaction
42:37of well I'm going to get even
42:41or
42:43I'm going to hurt you.
42:46I'm going to hurt you. I'm going to hurt
42:48something you care about.
42:51Those are those are more human kind of
42:54reactions
42:56because we're a human animal.
42:59Um,
43:01>> so we're looking for a meaning as we
43:03would interpret it as opposed to
43:05>> I'm looking for a message. I'm as as a
43:07researcher, I'm looking for information
43:09for for a message as you know of a
43:14demonstration.
43:16But um that was a teal ball as I require
43:20that they were chasing.
43:23>> Yep.
43:25>> The message might have been
43:28the dogs were expensible, expendable.
43:32And the message might have been for
43:34Terry.
43:36And the message is
43:39we need this needs to be taken really
43:41seriously
43:43or we or me or it whatever that ball is
43:48if it's a consciousness. Not just that
43:51it can the local motion is that it can
43:53dodge branches throughout a forest or
43:55trees with with perfect precision at
43:58speed
44:00but it may have a consciousness
44:02connected to it. And it may have been
44:04the message was for Terry, not that the
44:07animals lives were s weren't sacrificed
44:09for nothing. So they were sacrificed
44:12maybe speculating has a me message for
44:15Terry.
44:16>> Well, it seems clearly whatever that
44:17intelligence is can differentiate
44:19between cows and dogs and people. What
44:21it did to cows are things that we do to
44:24cattle all the time.
44:25>> Oh yeah.
44:25>> What it did to those dogs, I mean, it
44:27still is different from what it could do
44:29to humans. It did not.
44:32>> [clears throat]
44:33>> Uh well you have to take it seriously. I
44:35mean there there
44:37so all of it is very serious it that
44:41[clears throat] um
44:43whether it can cause human problems
44:46which it has um
44:50or kind of innocuous kind of things that
44:52are just games you know. So,
44:56>> um, on the last day of your ownership of
44:59the ranch before the day before it
45:01switched over to Brandon Fugal, um,
45:04Colin Keller and I went up on your plane
45:06to the ranch and he was going to pick
45:08some things up. I hadn't been there in a
45:10couple years because during the OSAP
45:11program, I'm not part of it. I I wasn't
45:13allowed to be there, but some of the
45:15things that we picked up looked like it
45:16had been communication experiments.
45:18There were these wooden boxes with a
45:20glass top and some metal particles or
45:23something like that. Were were those
45:25communication experiments as well or do
45:27you recall what that was?
45:28>> I didn't set all them up. Okay. Uh other
45:31folks did that so it was up to them how
45:33they were to arrange things. But one one
45:36thing we might just touch on for a
45:38couple minutes that we detourred a while
45:41ago is that the cameras,
45:43>> right?
45:43>> Incidents.
45:44>> The cameras.
45:44>> Yeah. So [cough]
45:47[clears throat]
45:47this is this is a good demonstration
45:50because
45:53it was in full sight. Something
45:55happened, you say to that cap and the
45:57speculation it had to be taken somewhere
45:59else. And this this is a good example as
46:02to why it didn't have to be taken
46:04anywhere at all.
46:06You could have been standing 30 feet
46:07away and not seen anything happen except
46:11all a sudden that cow is spread out
46:14because that's what happened in full
46:17view of one camera looking at another
46:19camera,
46:21you know, couple hundred feet away.
46:24Your c you had cameras up on top of
46:25these telephone poles at the ranch and
46:27they had wide views of the property so
46:29you could try to see what's going on,
46:31right?
46:31>> Yeah. And
46:33>> well, we [clears throat] uh
46:37so one camera's watching another another
46:40camera and uh I had bought the herd of
46:46cows from cattle from Terry.
46:50And we didn't tell the cattle why they
46:52were there. They were just enjoying the
46:55the grass and the water and
46:58the nice fall and it's a beautiful
47:00springtime. Beautiful place. Yeah.
47:02>> But they were guinea pigs
47:06and uh
47:09so as researchers, we needed to have
47:11something to research. And so we
47:15>> [clears throat]
47:15>> uh so the
47:18there was a time when the cattle were
47:22were uh in the vicinity of one of these
47:25telephone poles and they had a camera at
47:27the top of the pole maybe 25 ft 30 ft
47:31high. And so we had a metal or a very
47:35diff very strong uh thick plastic
47:38conduit or perhaps a piece of steel
47:41conduit that the cable from
47:45the previous power source that powered
47:47the the first telephone pole camera also
47:50ran underground to the second one. And
47:53then those cables were bound together
47:56with duct tape about three uh 3 ft on
48:00center all the way up the pole. And then
48:03when they entered into the can of the
48:06camera um the weatherproof can um they
48:10were knotted inside that that can. So
48:14they were secure
48:17and the conduit [clears throat]
48:20was
48:22bent and and ran up the side of the the
48:26pole for about 15 in.
48:29And there was a steel horseshoe clamp
48:31that kept that in place hugging the the
48:34pole.
48:36The pole was probably eight or nine
48:38inches in diameter.
48:40So um and everything was timestamped.
48:44So we we saw that the the camera um
48:54the second camera became disabled
48:58and um
49:01there was there was no visual evidence
49:06of anything approaching the camera on
49:08the ground or in the air. Uh the cows
49:11had moved a little bit nearer to the
49:14telephone pole and there was only one
49:16thing that I could see that changed is
49:18there was a slight breeze uh along a
49:21fence line um oh 7 70 ft away beyond the
49:26pole. There was a slight breeze because
49:29a bush was slightly blowing in the in
49:32the breeze.
49:34At one point it stopped. That breeze
49:37stopped. Um,
49:40that was the only thing you could see.
49:41There was also a a slight movement of a
49:44a small cloud
49:47that appeared in the sky, not close to
49:50the pole, but up, you know,
49:51substantially high. And, uh, that was
49:54it. Meanwhile, uh, all of the conduit at
49:58the bottom had been pulled away from the
49:59pole. The the steel uh, horseshoe shaped
50:03mechanism had been pulled apart, and all
50:05of the duct tape had been stripped out.
50:08And the duct tape, as I recall, was
50:10missing.
50:12And uh and all the the cables were all
50:15were were peeled away from the from the
50:19from the pole. And I wouldn't say that
50:21100% of the duct tape was pulled away,
50:23but enough of it was. There might have
50:25been the bottom couple of of uh duct
50:27taped areas had been intact, but the
50:31camera was certainly disabled.
50:33>> Disabled, shredded, how extensive.
50:36>> Absolutely. So, that was a message of we
50:38don't want you to film.
50:40We really don't, you know, we're we are
50:42private creatures and uh we don't want
50:45you to film what we're doing.
50:47>> You can be here. We don't mind you
50:49seeing us once in a while, but no more.
50:51>> Yeah. So, there's kind of rules, you
50:53know, rules of behavior that that take a
50:55long while to try to understand in
50:58trying to create a kind of a
51:00relationship,
51:02whatever that is.
51:03>> Whatever did it was invisible, right?
51:05Uh, you have cameras that you have a
51:07camera that's looking at the camera that
51:09was destroyed. Something ripped it
51:11ripped it up up, tore all the the the
51:14protective stuff up and did it. And is
51:16there anything that appeared on camera
51:17that you can see? [clears throat]
51:20Spontaneous ones. So, the rules are
51:23interesting.
51:25We can control you. You can't control
51:28us.
51:29We aren't going to repeat things twice.
51:34But we're going to give you some slack.
51:37We're going to let you figure out what
51:38you can do. So, I would I would tell one
51:41of my security guys, I said, "Look
51:44[clears throat] what here's what I want
51:46you to do. I want you to have a camera
51:47at the ready when you're laying in bed
51:49and you're you're ready to go to sleep
51:51or or whatever." And
51:56um or even if it's broad daylight and
52:01and maybe you're taking a nap, maybe
52:02you're working a a graveyard shift,
52:04whatever, and so you're you're taking a
52:07nap and and uh you're getting ready to
52:10sleep. Um and the d the the blinds are
52:14down, the drapes are pulled on the
52:16windows and you know, in the bedroom and
52:18so but there's still ambient light, a
52:20little bit of it coming in. and you you
52:22got a flash attachment on your on your
52:24uh on your camera and uh these were
52:27digital cameras and uh um just you know
52:31not very big and u and I said
52:35when you feel [clears throat] the urge
52:38you feel a sense not that you sense that
52:40something or somebody's with you they're
52:43not that strong
52:45where their hair is standing up or not
52:47that strong but you just have Um,
52:52not maybe intuitive, maybe your
52:54intuition's talking to you, but um, go
52:58ahead and and spontaneously take photos
53:01of any of any direction that you think
53:03you should. Do what you think you should
53:06do. Just do it. Don't question it.
53:09That's where you mess up. Just do it.
53:12And [clears throat] almost always he
53:14would catch things. And would be really
53:16interesting what he would catch because
53:19it would play on what the camera's
53:21capabilities were, not just what was in
53:24the photo. For example, the in some
53:28cases, the photons wouldn't go beyond
53:29the edge of the bed. He'd be sitting up
53:33uh by the headboard area and the photons
53:35would stop at the foot of the bed, you
53:37know. But we know there's a dresser and
53:40a a mirror on top of the anchor to the
53:42dresser just a few feet beyond the bed,
53:45you know, and other times um he would
53:49get a photo of something lifting off of
53:51the nightstand.
53:53Well, that something had been there and
53:56he's taking a photo and in the split
53:58second that he's shot that photograph,
54:01whatever it was had already lifted off
54:04because this is what's in the photo is
54:06something lifting off about the size of
54:08your fist. It's changing a shade from uh
54:13a darker color to maybe a slight gray
54:15color and and and it's the photo is not
54:19clear. It's it whatever it is is moving.
54:22so quickly or vibrating that it's not a
54:25clear. It's not crystal clear. The
54:29nightstand is anything else is, but not
54:32what's lifting off because it's quicker.
54:35It's it's it's the speed of it is
54:38something that the photo can't quite
54:40catch with the with clarity, you know,
54:43and um
54:46or you'd be missing a uh a wedding ring
54:50would wind up in some old pair of of
54:55pants or slacks or uh something that he
54:58wore that was in a dresser drawer, but
55:00he wouldn't find that for a day or two.
55:03And he was it was his wedding ring on
55:04the you know so he wouldn't find it or a
55:06guns in the freezer you know because
55:09they all carried and so the guns in the
55:11freezer and uh uh but so all these are
55:14this games it's kind of games and and so
55:18[clears throat] that's that's the
55:20rapport that's probably one of the most
55:22possible incredibly valuable kinds of
55:25things you know in the communication
55:27process which I'd like to segue since
55:31maybe we don't have a lot of No, it's
55:33great.
55:34>> Math's been jumping down over here, up
55:36and down, you know.
55:37>> No, I mean that's what we're talking
55:39about is communication. It communicates.
55:40I mean, you look at the history of UFOs.
55:44My theory is they we see them only when
55:46they let us see them. Yeah.
55:48>> If we if they didn't let us, we wouldn't
55:49see them at all.
55:50>> One thing in the rules is we're not in
55:52charge.
55:53>> Yeah.
55:53>> Okay. That that's like rule number one.
55:55We're not in charge.
55:57>> Okay. And um that doesn't mean if you're
56:01if you're in a jet and you're trying to
56:03shoot them and whatever, you're not
56:06going to make it. You know, you're not
56:08going to succeed. So, we're not in
56:10charge.
56:10>> Do you think there's been direct
56:11communication them to our government or
56:14any other governments?
56:16[clears throat]
56:16>> I don't know how there could not be.
56:20I don't I can't imagine that there
56:21hasn't been especially with gatekeepers,
56:25you know, especially with gatekeepers.
56:28Um,
56:29and this this gets into the
56:32communication actual process of trying
56:34to communicate, right? If you're going
56:35to go through confirmation and you're
56:37going to go through the process of
56:39disclosure, [clears throat]
56:41>> isn't communication a logical step here
56:43pretty soon? you know, we've been doing
56:45it as amateurs at the Skinwalker Ranch
56:48or maybe from our homes or offices or
56:51different places, right? Um
56:55[clears throat] but anyway, so we get
56:58into I have a number of things that are
57:00kind of like a first category.
57:02>> Yeah.
57:03>> Um [clears throat]
57:06the who should communicate and we
57:08briefly touched on this before, but the
57:10who should communicate is important.
57:13It's really important who who
57:14>> who should speak for humanity.
57:16>> Exactly. Exactly. So who should perform
57:19the communication speaking for the human
57:20species? What type of humans should not
57:24be trusted to to communicate in in this
57:27process? Is is there a type of people
57:31that would the ETSs may not pref prefer
57:35be engaged?
57:36>> Lawyers. You'd pick lawyers, right?
57:37Well, [laughter]
57:39you know,
57:42so I'm thinking of a cartoon where the
57:45the the kid's telling his daddy, "Well,
57:46I think I'm going to be a a lawyer." You
57:49know, he comes to him and the father
57:50says, "Oh my god, I don't not that," you
57:52know, type of thing. [laughter] But but
57:55anyway, um so yeah. So would military
57:59leaders be of the right mindset? Would
58:02there be a hostility already embedded in
58:05that which we have found um in maybe
58:09some really sedate kind of ways is not a
58:13good idea.
58:13>> To a hammer everything looks
58:15[clears throat] like a nail.
58:16>> I'll put it this way. How you think is
58:18really really important.
58:21How you think um
58:24about even our normal lives is really
58:26important. Um [snorts]
58:29but how you how you think really matters
58:31in this particular context. Uh not in
58:35just like well what goes around comes
58:37around or some kind of karmic effect
58:40which is real that really matters but
58:43how you think not even what you do much
58:46less what you do but how you think it
58:49really matters cuz that's the ignition
58:51part that starts things to become
58:54chaotic. So what type? Okay, you talk
58:57military leaders and I did say lawyers
59:00and I have a lot of lawyers that are
59:01good friends of mine. Anyway,
59:03politicians, okay, they they have a
59:06different kind of agenda. Um,
59:09uh, uninformed scientists, they don't
59:11know what they're doing.
59:14Well, you wouldn't hand something to a
59:16child and say, "Okay, run with this, you
59:19know, that doesn't know what it's
59:20holding." The child doesn't really know
59:22how what it is. So there th those are
59:25some some potentially detrimental
59:28examples and there are many probably
59:30many others. So the who is really
59:32important? Yeah,
59:32>> the who.
59:35Um [clears throat]
59:36and would you leave it up to the United
59:38Nations to decide? I mean what does the
59:40United Nations even do that is good that
59:43is efficient and productive and and
59:45competent? You know how what is their
59:47image exactly? you know, so um and so so
59:53you it' be impossible to have a
59:54unanimous agreement on anything out of
59:56that body. And so there are five nations
59:59that have absolute veto power. Any one
1:00:01of them can veto anything, right? So
1:00:03would you leave it up to the five
1:00:04nations that represent the world and
1:00:06they can't agree much on anything? But
1:00:08the the key here is also uh how would
1:00:12they quickly reach a unified agreement?
1:00:15If it's a group, how does a group reach
1:00:18a a is it the majority wins in the
1:00:21decision or is it need to be 100% based
1:00:24on the seriousness of whatever? Um how
1:00:27would they reach a unified agreement on
1:00:29every question? And let's suppose the
1:00:32questions are answered, they're
1:00:34responses. How long does it take for you
1:00:37to answer the response and and answer it
1:00:39and then even in a in a unified way?
1:00:43Can anybody ever can all people ever
1:00:45agree on anything? No, it's impossible.
1:00:48You can't get everybody to agree on
1:00:49anything. So, is it like the majority
1:00:52wins or whatever? And [clears throat]
1:00:54what is the right or wrong answer? So,
1:00:56all of these things are really tricky
1:00:58tricky stuff. Communication is a big
1:01:01friaking deal.
1:01:02>> How do you initiate it?
1:01:03>> That's like Elon's first rocket BFD.
1:01:05Yeah.
1:01:06>> You know, only it wasn't frigin. So
1:01:08anyway um so that those are really very
1:01:12tricky and um can we visualize that this
1:01:17process of communication is going to be
1:01:19durable? Can it be efficient for hours,
1:01:24days, weeks, months or years?
1:01:28In the best scenario, it ought to never
1:01:30stop. Providing is helping mankind.
1:01:34Providing is helping mankind.
1:01:37then it should never stop.
1:01:40But we have a worry.
1:01:43We may not be eligible.
1:01:46>> We meaning Americans or we human beings
1:01:49human beings. The big worry we have is
1:01:52that we lack the spiritual maturity to
1:01:56be able to be eligible.
1:01:57>> Yeah. Are we worth talking to?
1:01:59>> Spiritual maturity. I I like to put it
1:02:03in that kind of context because it's not
1:02:06whether or not we're we we're knowing
1:02:08enough, we're intelligent enough. It's
1:02:13that our [clears throat] spiritual
1:02:15maturity may be bankrupt. It may be that
1:02:17we're we are substantially
1:02:20uh sufficient. We are in we are in
1:02:22insufficient in that area. So um
1:02:26[clears throat]
1:02:28uh because the delta between as we said
1:02:32earlier between our technological growth
1:02:34and our spiritual maturity is huge.
1:02:37They're never going to see an
1:02:38intersection.
1:02:39If those lines don't cross,
1:02:42we'll never be
1:02:45spiritually
1:02:47responsible for what we create
1:02:49technologically.
1:02:50You know, we we w we won't see that. We
1:02:53won't see that we're all in it just for
1:02:55the the technology and and you we're
1:02:59we're lethal to ourselves. We're very
1:03:02we're very lethal.
1:03:03>> Well, if they've been watching us for
1:03:04centuries, which it sounds seems like
1:03:06they maybe they have, they've seen the
1:03:08primary occupation of our nation states
1:03:10has been war. We build bigger and more
1:03:14deadly weapon systems. And that when we
1:03:16the biggest things that we marshall are
1:03:18for war, World War II being an example.
1:03:20So there's a question [clears throat]
1:03:22for 80 years at least. Forget the
1:03:24historic going back hundreds or
1:03:25thousands of years.
1:03:27For 80 years at least, why haven't they
1:03:30given up? Yeah, we can see why they
1:03:33haven't given up when we were
1:03:34Neanderthalss, early crowd,
1:03:38you know, at [clears throat] the time of
1:03:40Jesus, you know, or but going back to
1:03:43the to the the Egyptian period and then
1:03:47working our way up to this point in
1:03:48time.
1:03:50But we have not matured for the for the
1:03:54best over the last 80 years. Why haven't
1:03:57they given up?
1:03:59>> Well, I mean that that that question is
1:04:01a really important
1:04:03>> question
1:04:04is huge
1:04:07and and gosh, what if they did?
1:04:11What if [clears throat] they just decide
1:04:12to disappear?
1:04:14>> These guys aren't worth the trouble.
1:04:17We well that's that we don't know the
1:04:19why
1:04:19>> they disappeared.
1:04:21>> What if they they just did?
1:04:24>> We have no more
1:04:27peculiar objects on our fireplace hearth
1:04:30any longer to see.
1:04:34We have nothing.
1:04:36There's nothing left on the doorstep
1:04:39that's unusual.
1:04:40Not nothing that came from a neighbor,
1:04:43but came from something that no neighbor
1:04:45of ours could ever make, could ever
1:04:48create. And that's no longer on our
1:04:51porch. That's not on our front doorstep.
1:04:55I would not like to see that at all.
1:04:58That would be terrible.
1:04:59>> Yeah. It'd be scary. I mean, if suddenly
1:05:00they were gone, we give up on the human
1:05:03race. We're leaving. um that suggests
1:05:06something bad's coming or they they've
1:05:08given up believing that we are capable
1:05:10of rising to the point where we're worth
1:05:13communicating with. Since there is free
1:05:15we have free will.
1:05:18We have this free will to succeed or
1:05:20fail in anything as individuals.
1:05:24If we don't put any effort into
1:05:26anything, if we haven't ever figured out
1:05:28what our what is our purpose in life,
1:05:32what is our meaning? Do we have a
1:05:33meaning? Do we have a purpose as we
1:05:36mature, as we evolve? Um [snorts] what's
1:05:39the what's our point? What what you
1:05:41know? And so we we have free will um to
1:05:46succeed or feel fail as a species.
1:05:50And so [clears throat] it isn't I can
1:05:52see where it isn't up to ET.
1:05:55We we we could be expendable is the big
1:05:58worry to me as far as ET is concerned.
1:06:01So they have made an overt effort. God
1:06:04knows maybe a lot of people don't know
1:06:06but there the super collective
1:06:10consciousness is aware that there has
1:06:14been a significant effort over a long
1:06:17time for us to be made aware of there's
1:06:19something more. There's a lot more
1:06:23but it hasn't changed us and our free
1:06:26will is still we are still rotating
1:06:30around the bottom and our in our level
1:06:33of spirituality you know whatever we are
1:06:36a dangerous creature so I can see ET
1:06:40giving up just saying
1:06:42they have a right to free will that
1:06:45exists universally
1:06:47in this dimension and the other side
1:06:49other dimension It's it's a universal
1:06:52freedom. Free will is [clears throat]
1:06:55if you're irresponsible.
1:06:59Um eventually you'll pay for that harm
1:07:02one way or another eventually
1:07:05uh for the consequence of those
1:07:07decisions.
1:07:09So eventually that could be applicable
1:07:13to a huge percentage of the population
1:07:16at some time. You know, so much of the
1:07:18communication that's happened has been
1:07:20one-on-one. They
1:07:22encounter humans and convey information
1:07:25sometimes under duress cir circumstances
1:07:28where humans are taken against their
1:07:29will and go on a ship and but the
1:07:31communication is always these alien
1:07:33editorials. You know, they'll convey,
1:07:35hey, look, you're heading down the wrong
1:07:38path. You could quit messing around with
1:07:40atomic weapons and take care of your
1:07:42planet. Quit poisoning the place. as if
1:07:44they're concerned about the planet maybe
1:07:46more than us. Um, I'm glad that they
1:07:50that they go to that trouble to convey
1:07:52those messages.
1:07:53>> I don't think the plan Gaia will
1:07:55survive.
1:07:59The Earth is stronger than we are.
1:08:01>> Yeah,
1:08:02>> it's going to survive.
1:08:04Um
1:08:07there are natural events that can cause
1:08:10tremendous destruction for long periods
1:08:12of time
1:08:13and asteroids, super volcanoes.
1:08:18Um thermonuclear saturation
1:08:21um would be a devastation for a long
1:08:24time but eventually there's recovery.
1:08:28you know enough for not enough not for
1:08:29living not for living things but for the
1:08:33planet the atmosphere and the radiation
1:08:36would eventually there's recovery so
1:08:39Gaia is really durable the communication
1:08:42as I said that's happened that we know
1:08:44of assuming that the witnesses are
1:08:46telling the truth and being accurate you
1:08:48know is one-on-one it's not mass
1:08:50communication we've had some events like
1:08:52the the ones that you presented to the
1:08:55president where thousands Thousands,
1:08:57tens of thousands of people have seen
1:08:59it. Even those are disputed. Um they
1:09:02could do a demonstration and communicate
1:09:05with a huge number of people all at once
1:09:08if they wanted to. They haven't chosen
1:09:09to do that, right?
1:09:12>> No. Beyond not be and not
1:09:16not something more proactive than just
1:09:20>> a demonstration.
1:09:21>> Just just numerous things in flight that
1:09:24are anomalous. And you know, they're not
1:09:26birds. Uh they're not asteroids because
1:09:28they're they're in your face. They're
1:09:30really close. Um but um
1:09:36so um we get into to the actual
1:09:40communication process of of first of all
1:09:43about how can [clears throat] we trust
1:09:46the ET communications?
1:09:49How can we how do we know
1:09:51this ET that's communicating?
1:09:56There's fraud in different kinds of ways
1:09:58in anomalous areas. There's fraud in and
1:10:03the research tells us this and proves
1:10:05this in the spirit world on the other
1:10:08side. There's fraud in that. Okay.
1:10:11[clears throat]
1:10:13So,
1:10:15um do we use AI
1:10:18to frame our questions or and answers?
1:10:23If I gave some of a paper
1:10:27on AI that was as to ultimately the
1:10:30biggest worry we have which is bad which
1:10:33is not good as to there were like 15 14
1:10:3715 different steps and we are at about
1:10:40nine
1:10:42level nine right now because it's
1:10:44learned to lie and it's learned to
1:10:46substitute language for us on our cell
1:10:48phones and so rudimentary kinds of
1:10:50things
1:10:52it can be seductive because of the good
1:10:55things it can do for us in medicine and
1:10:57do our thesis our term papers or
1:10:59whatever right and make us look really
1:11:01good you know so but there are some
1:11:04serious consequences on the endgame but
1:11:07anyway so that so if you abdicate that
1:11:09to AI when does that stop if it is the
1:11:12prime communicator you'd rather have
1:11:13would you rather have human beings as a
1:11:16communicator or do you want to really
1:11:17abdicate that to just AI and it starts
1:11:21communicating as to the questions and
1:11:23answers and so forth and at light speed
1:11:26faster than than we can. It's not going
1:11:28to take them hours or days or weeks or
1:11:31months. It's going to be instantaneous
1:11:33back and forth. So,
1:11:36we've lost control of that. So, anyway,
1:11:39so that's just a sidebar to consider,
1:11:41right? So, so then how do we enable a
1:11:45communication process in the first
1:11:46place? What are the techniques? We spoke
1:11:48about this earlier that well it's not
1:11:51going to be a close encounter to same a
1:11:53third kind thing. It's not going to be a
1:11:54seti thing. It's going to be something
1:11:56different. It's going to be a cousin to
1:11:58things that we've already talked about
1:12:00today. Um I feel
1:12:04>> you know what would be interesting
1:12:05experiment is to ask your listeners what
1:12:08would they say? What would they want to
1:12:10say? What are the questions they'd want
1:12:11to ask? We could do a whole other
1:12:13episode on
1:12:13>> well ideas are worth I mean you always
1:12:16want ideas from as many sources as you
1:12:18can possibly get.
1:12:19>> I mean we've got a lot to cover on
1:12:21communication uh that we could do
1:12:23another episode on if you want and we
1:12:25can ask
1:12:25>> I'm coming down actually I'm coming down
1:12:28to where I can conclude pretty soon.
1:12:30>> Okay.
1:12:31>> Okay. So the one of the interesting
1:12:33questions here, George, that's not maybe
1:12:35obvious. Have the few humans
1:12:38who have already communicated with ETSs
1:12:42currently and in the past
1:12:46um peed in the pond. [laughter]
1:12:49I put it this way. Cause relationship
1:12:51damage. Okay, forget what I said
1:12:54earlier. Cause relationship damage. So
1:12:58we don't know what has happened.
1:13:01>> [clears throat]
1:13:02>> in various areas already
1:13:06um and it could be current could be in
1:13:10the past too uh where there is
1:13:12relationship damage. We don't that's an
1:13:14important thing.
1:13:15>> We shoot at them
1:13:17humans shoot at them.
1:13:19>> Well, how do we you know and how do we
1:13:20fix it? How do we how do we how do we
1:13:23reacquire trust? How do and and how do
1:13:27we trust them and how how do they trust
1:13:29us?
1:13:30We can trust them because they have the
1:13:33power to have extinguished us anytime
1:13:36they wanted to. Any number of us,
1:13:38anybody, anywhere, anytime. It doesn't
1:13:40matter where. There is no place doesn't
1:13:43matter if it had been our astronauts on
1:13:45the moon and certainly on Earth. There
1:13:47there is no place we can go, no place to
1:13:49run or hide that they that is immune
1:13:52from their capabilities.
1:13:55So
1:13:57that means they have demonstrated
1:14:01uh in in really good time in a in a in a
1:14:07doose of uh occurrences and events
1:14:13um that they they have earned trust.
1:14:18They have earned a high level of trust
1:14:20at least from me personally
1:14:22>> because they haven't wiped us out. Yeah.
1:14:24[clears throat] Yeah. We're we are like
1:14:27a wild card, you know, we're all over
1:14:29the deck. We're we're
1:14:32So, um so [clears throat] and then the
1:14:36other one is perhaps the human species
1:14:37is not even close to being ready to
1:14:39communicate on a regular basis. Um
1:14:42because of again, we talked about our
1:14:44our spiritual progress and and maybe
1:14:47we're not maybe and the worst thing I
1:14:49want to see is that they stop an effort.
1:14:51They disappear. To me, that's that's one
1:14:54of the worst things that can happen to
1:14:56us. Um
1:14:58so humans may need to grow um in our
1:15:04thinking and elevate ourselves
1:15:07to start to be worth it, you know, and
1:15:10we don't know but um because and and
1:15:14maybe uh that that we are trying to
1:15:18elevate ourselves spiritually and
1:15:22um
1:15:24so that our culture
1:15:26as a species changes
1:15:31anthropomorphically. We're going to be
1:15:33the same being
1:15:35>> for a while,
1:15:36>> but our thinking has to has
1:15:41fundamentally changed. Like people
1:15:43who've had a near-death experience are
1:15:45never the same in their thinking. They
1:15:47are a different caliber of person, a
1:15:49much higher elevated caliber of person.
1:15:51Same for close encounter cases where
1:15:54people meet and communicate with aliens.
1:15:57>> True.
1:15:57>> Yeah.
1:15:58>> True. So are the question is are the
1:16:00others waiting for this? We don't you
1:16:02know we don't know and and the others
1:16:06are in potentially in charge of the
1:16:08engagement process not us. So, um that's
1:16:13kind of like but I think it is up to us
1:16:16though to make our um to make an effort.
1:16:21It's up to us to make effort and and
1:16:24it's not something that's that is for
1:16:26free without trouble. Most things good
1:16:30that are that are whether it's putting
1:16:31food on the table or whatever it is that
1:16:34you do in your life requires sincere
1:16:36effort and trouble for crying out loud.
1:16:38Yeah. and they're not it's not free, you
1:16:41know. Um, and [clears throat] so
1:16:45it's it's you have to you have to put
1:16:47effort into anything that matters and we
1:16:50need to do that. And so we we need to
1:16:52start this process in different kinds of
1:16:54ways. Okay. Well, I totally agree. I
1:16:58mean, communication would be important.
1:17:00We don't want them to leave. Um, we
1:17:02don't want them to give up on us,
1:17:03whoever they are, wherever they're from.
1:17:05I mean, they haven't wiped us out. We
1:17:07don't know if they've ever interveneed
1:17:08on our behalf. If uh if North Korea
1:17:12launched the missiles, would they
1:17:13intervene and stop that from happening?
1:17:15We don't know really. Um
1:17:16>> well, the free will is a powerful thing.
1:17:19And and you know, and the first order is
1:17:21don't interfere.
1:17:23Do not interfere in a species existence.
1:17:27Prime director for better or worse. That
1:17:29is their world. That is their existence.
1:17:32And they have to maybe learn the hardest
1:17:34of hard ways.
1:17:37in annihilation of certain kinds of
1:17:39things in order to
1:17:42to learn to change.
1:17:45I want to come back to communication in
1:17:47a in a future episode.
1:17:48>> But I'm not advocating I'm not I want I
1:17:51don't want people to think that the that
1:17:53a solution is is anything that hurts a
1:17:56human species. I'm not there's no way.
1:17:58I'm talking about spiritual right
1:18:00>> a spiritual correction and change in our
1:18:03culture not to cause harm to each other
1:18:06or any other thing if we can help it
1:18:08that matters it you know which is
1:18:11basically everything that we that we
1:18:13care about and for survival we have to
1:18:17do we have to do what we have to do for
1:18:19survival to eat and live but so I'm not
1:18:23I'm not going to extremes here I'm
1:18:25saying that we need to fundamentally
1:18:27have a religion about us that supersedes
1:18:30what um a lot of dogma that that our
1:18:35religions, our churches pronounce, but
1:18:38that sometimes
1:18:40there are things that the churches say
1:18:44can relieve us of responsibility.
1:18:46I don't think that's correct. I think
1:18:49that's wrong. I think we are
1:18:51fundamentally always responsible for
1:18:54what we think and we do. And nobody can
1:18:58take that can
1:19:00can take that away from us. We are
1:19:02responsible for that. And uh and that's
1:19:06part of our our evidence as to whether
1:19:08we've we've progressed spiritually or
1:19:10not.
1:19:11>> I think you might get some letters and
1:19:13comments on that, Robert.
1:19:14>> I'm sure I will. I'm sure that's okay.
1:19:16Say that I have I'm anti- relligion and
1:19:18I'm not at all.
1:19:19>> We we want some comments in particular
1:19:21on this alien communication point. What
1:19:24would you like to say to them and what
1:19:26would we we like to hear back from them?
1:19:28What kind of questions would we ask
1:19:30them? We'd like to hear answers to
1:19:32people are welcome to send it to us,
1:19:34right? And um
1:19:35>> so to end this to end this, I want to
1:19:37say I am I am pro- religion because I
1:19:39think people have to have more than
1:19:40themselves to believe in and I think
1:19:43there are so many aspects of of a lot of
1:19:45religions that are good and I personally
1:19:48believe in a supreme god force,
1:19:50>> right? Not because I belong to a
1:19:52particular religion or church. I believe
1:19:54it because I have seen I I I know the
1:19:57proof. I feel I can prove it exists. I
1:20:00believe a super consciousness exists.
1:20:03And the word God is insufficient is
1:20:06absolutely insufficient in the English
1:20:08language to describe
1:20:11the omnipotence, omniscience and
1:20:14omniscience of this
1:20:16this consciousness.
1:20:19Anyway, well, we're gonna dive into that
1:20:21one for sure. Yeah. In multiple
1:20:22episodes, for sure. Okay.
1:20:24>> All right. Good to see you.
1:20:25>> Okay. Thank you. I just want to thank
1:20:28the audience for taking the time to
1:20:31watch us and and listen to what we have
1:20:32to say. I want to thank George Knap for
1:20:35being a terrific host. And we would
1:20:37appreciate any serious questions that
1:20:40you have that we may want to talk about.
1:20:43If you have questions, we would like to
1:20:45ask you to actually drop us a note.
1:20:47Thank you.
1:20:52>> [music]