Michael B. Jordan on Being Loved Isn't Enough to Make It Work

0:00You said when you come from where I come

0:02from and everybody doesn't get those

0:03breaks, that luck, you start to question

0:06why am I successful in life? Why did I

0:09go this way and everybody went that way?

0:11>> And I just thought that that was,

0:13>> you know, again, extremely humble and

0:16also representative of where you grew

0:19up, how you came up, like which way did

0:21everyone go and where did that luck

0:23begin for you? You know, I think coming

0:25up in in in North New Jersey, coming up

0:27in that environment and, you know,

0:28having, you know, when you're younger,

0:30you know, you're living life, you know,

0:32you're you're taking it a day at a time.

0:33You know, you're going to basketball

0:34practice, you're going to school, you

0:35know, you're going to church, you know,

0:37you're you're you're uh for me it was,

0:38you know, taking a lot of trips to New

0:40York City, going on auditions at a

0:42really really young age and just

0:43figuring out what what what that is.

0:46having having parents pretty aware, you

0:48know, um and and very present in my

0:50life, you know, growing up. Uh you know,

0:52that was that was rare amongst my

0:54family, amongst my friend group, you

0:56know, uh having both parents that was

0:57there and very present and um aware of

1:00my environment as well. you know what

1:02what uh you know being told to look out

1:05for these things and uh make good

1:07choices to be disciplined to be focused

1:09on things you know get your school you

1:11know all the the uh you know the the

1:13positives in in in growing up in in an

1:16environment like that and you know hats

1:17off to my parents and to uh to sacrifice

1:20so much to make sure their kids you know

1:22were safe and and grew up in you know in

1:24you know grow up in an environment ain't

1:25easy making ends meet you know um grew

1:28up very poor but didn't feel like it you

1:29know what I'm saying it was very you

1:31know I think they did a good job at

1:32hiding those things. You know, I think

1:33as we get older, we look back, it's

1:35like, oh man, we went through that. Oh,

1:36oh, that's why we slept in the kitchen

1:38that one time with the oven open or oh,

1:40that's when we stayed at grandma's house

1:41for like, you know, a couple of weeks

1:43when you, you know, so you you you get

1:44that reflection of of how we kind of

1:46grew up and and I think for me, you

1:49know, always having a, you know, a

1:51bigger purpose, I think, or just, you

1:52know, just that optimism, you know, that

1:54that I was a big dreamer as a kid and

1:56and I think, you know, you start to not

2:00just to focusing on the just the work of

2:02it all, but since I was working such a

2:04young age, that's the thing that I can

2:05kind of point to of, you know, booking

2:07auditions and getting this job and

2:09traveling to this place and experiencing

2:11these things and coming back home with

2:13these experiences and not having a lot

2:15of people who could relate or could, you

2:19know, I could soundboard off of. And and

2:21I think in feeling like that, you don't

2:23want to alienate those people, you know.

2:26Uh uh and I think, and this is all, I

2:28guess, in hindsight, you don't share

2:30these stories as much. you know, maybe

2:32you should because you don't want

2:33somebody to feel like in an adequate or,

2:35you know, not being able to have that

2:37experience that you might have had. And

2:38I think, you know, that snowballs as you

2:40as you get older and from stepping stone

2:42to stepping stone as as as I continue to

2:45be successful at a at a at a young age,

2:48um, you start to question, why am I

2:50being so successful? and the people that

2:52look just like me that are right next to

2:54me in these everyday things aren't

2:57necessarily doing that are not choosing

3:00to, you know, just didn't have those

3:02options that were laid out to them.

3:04>> Uh, and I and I think it um you start to

3:07doubt yourself for whatever reason or

3:09feel guilty for the things that you may

3:10or may not have. Um, even though you

3:13know my parents were people of service,

3:15you know, uh, block parties or, you

3:18know, cooking church dinners or, you

3:20know, whenever, you know, my house was

3:21the house that everybody came to at some

3:23point, whether we were going to get

3:25pizza that night or dad was going to

3:27take everybody camping or going to these

3:29things like it was that was kind of my

3:31house within within my neighborhood and

3:33community. and and um so I think for me

3:36being a person of service kind of cuz

3:38you know just kind of comes from how I

3:39was raised and and and those those are

3:41the examples that I knew growing up. I

3:43always felt lucky too. As you become

3:45more successful and and

3:48you you see less people look like you

3:49that are being successful in this in

3:51this realm and you end up being the one

3:53guy that looks like me that's successful

3:56or the couple guys that or the usual

3:58suspects that you see in the audition

4:00room or and things of that nature. you

4:03know, you start to sometimes question

4:06why why why are you? Now I can I I I

4:09feel as though it was my it was my path,

4:11you know, it was my purpose and [snorts]

4:14spirituality and growing up in a in a

4:16household that was very focused on, you

4:18know, you know, church and spiritual and

4:20meditation and and and just being aware

4:24of the world that we live in. You know,

4:27I felt I was destined for for something.

4:29Not knowing what that was, but just

4:31something.

4:31>> Wow. Yeah. And I mean when I'm when I'm

4:33hearing that it sounds like I love what

4:36you said. You were like, you know, they

4:37they hid we were poor and we didn't even

4:39see that. But this idea of like you

4:41sound so when I when I see you talk

4:43about your family and for those of you

4:44watching, you can see it on Mike's face.

4:46But there's so much joy and there's

4:48bliss and there's like a

4:50>> there's like a happiness when you're

4:52looking back on that time. like I can

4:53see it's a positive experience because

4:56of how you feel you've been loved and

4:58cared for and supported even though the

5:01resources may not have been there or the

5:03access or opportunities and and I was

5:05wondering when I was listening to you

5:06like is there a memory or an experience

5:08from your childhood that you think

5:10defines who you are today? Like was

5:11there a a memory or a story that you

5:14have in your mind of an experience you

5:16went through that you think brings out

5:18maybe that service element or brings out

5:20that purposeful element? And I think

5:22this this bliss and this this this

5:24appreciation for how I grew up comes in

5:26hindsight,

5:27>> you know, like you know, the first time

5:29you have a moment where you're like

5:31>> pick up the phone, you know, one

5:33morning, you just call your mom and be

5:34like, "Yeah, thank you. I get it.

5:36[laughter]

5:37I I'm sorry. I'm sorry for for being

5:41that kid at some point. And I'm so sorry

5:43for not understanding. I totally get

5:45what you guys are going through. Sheesh.

5:47I love [laughter] you guys." you know,

5:49like you you have those moments when you

5:50get older, you know, that you just can't

5:52really have that perspective when you

5:54when you were a kid. And I think, you

5:56know, I was very mischievous, you know,

5:57as well. And and and I think there were

6:00moments when my dad disciplined me, you

6:03know, for for for for whatever the, you

6:05know, whatever I did at that time. And

6:08then my mom would have a conversation me

6:11around the why. And and then being also

6:14forced or pushed and nudged into a space

6:18where you had to acknowledge your

6:21siblings also, you know, in that

6:23situation and and and the importance of

6:25family

6:26>> and what that means. You know, uh my

6:29parents have different upbringings, you

6:31know what I'm saying, from you know, uh

6:33and different family structures growing

6:35up,

6:36>> but one thing they've always provided us

6:37with is just a sense of like family over

6:40everything, you know, and how important

6:42that is. And and that just kind of kept

6:44the groundedness to me throughout. So I

6:46think just the experiences of of just

6:49family.

6:49>> I like your point about hindsight. I've

6:50definitely made that call to my mom for

6:52sure. Like yeah, I made that call to my

6:54mom. We were around the same age. So for

6:56me it's like I made that call and I

6:57think I made it

6:59>> probably like 25, maybe 26. Yeah. It was

7:02probably around then when I finally made

7:03that call. [laughter] And not that I

7:05didn't love my mom before that. Of

7:06course I did. But it was like that

7:08honest understanding of just how hard it

7:11was to do what she did cuz she was

7:13raising two kids. She was dropping us to

7:16school, picking us up. She was the bread

7:17winner of the family. She made us

7:19breakfast, lunch, and dinner fresh every

7:21day. Like, and you don't recognize that

7:23as a kid. You don't realize the

7:25sacrifice, the hustle, the and and

7:28always making you feel loved on top of

7:30doing all of that. It's hard work.

7:32You've talked a you said that now you

7:34feel like you've got to a place that

7:36it's your path.

7:37>> What was that switch for you that went

7:39from like I don't deserve this. God,

7:42like I feel out of place. I'm lucky to

7:45being like, no, actually now I see it as

7:48this was meant to be my path. Because I

7:49think a lot of people

7:51>> and a lot of our listeners will be

7:52there. Like a lot of people are like

7:54they're making moves and maybe they're

7:56first person in their family to go to

7:57college or maybe they're the first

7:58person who started up a business and an

8:00entrepreneur or maybe one of our

8:02listeners is trying to break

8:03generational trauma and they're the

8:05first person to spot it

8:06>> and but then they all live in that space

8:09like can I do this? Like am I the one to

8:10do this? And so what was it that made

8:12that switch from like I'm not sure I'm

8:14the guy but oh it is my path.

8:16>> It's the sum of all things leading up

8:18until that point. I think it's all the

8:21doubt. It's the imposttor syndrome. It's

8:25the the blessings that you can't really

8:29accept fully and you listen to other

8:34people speak who are successful or you

8:36see examples that you kind of feel

8:39connected to like man that that kind of

8:41feels like me

8:43>> or

8:44>> what he just said or what she just said

8:46I kind of I resonate with that you know

8:48I feel like that sometimes you know um

8:51>> other people who are looking at you

8:53saying no Mike this is what you have.

8:55This is what you can be. This is what

8:57you are. Nah, no, that can't. No, that's

9:00that's too good. No, that ain't me. You

9:01know, uh your own presence in a

9:06situation where you have to step back

9:08and look at yourself and be like,

9:10>> am I this guy right now?

9:12>> Like, oh man, there's a room full of

9:14people who showed up

9:16>> because of something I'm doing and

9:18they're in service or in support of my

9:21idea,

9:22>> my thing. Okay, that looks and feels

9:25like I'm the guy. Okay, you're in I'm in

9:28the industry where you know your the

9:30success of your work and your art has

9:33been, you know, dictated and validated

9:36by other people's opinions

9:38>> and whether those opinions are factual

9:42or projected on you uh from their own

9:47uh individual perspective. M

9:51>> I think it's it was a it was a

9:52combination of all those things and I've

9:55always been curious and walked towards

9:58the how do I make myself better

10:00>> what are the things that I need the

10:02tools that I need in order to improve

10:04myself the way I think the way how do I

10:07maximize myself you know so from I think

10:12getting a you know an executive coach

10:15you know um who talks to executives all

10:17day and and and you know how to create

10:19healthy conversations the right type of

10:21conversations to have as you're building

10:23a team around you cuz you know as you

10:25know it's not just us you know we have

10:27an entire team of people that surround

10:29us that help us achieve our dreams and

10:32and and get the big idea done you know a

10:34spiritual adviser a spiritual coach that

10:36I have um who you know helps me uh do my

10:43energy work my spiritual work and and

10:44and and help

10:46>> sift through the noise and and and find

10:49those things. And I think it wasn't

10:51until I had, you know, roles that

10:54challenged my spirit and myself in a

10:57real way that that that that in the

10:59weight and and where the attention was

11:01so loud that it was, you know, it was

11:03deafening and it it was and and I

11:05couldn't, you know, um see clearly

11:08>> and you know, these champagne problems,

11:11you know what I'm saying? I you know,

11:12you know that like you know, we're

11:13blessed. So, but the weight is so heavy,

11:17>> you know, and people sometimes think and

11:20they see what we have or what, you know,

11:22our what we're, you know, what we're

11:24doing and it's like, oh, just be

11:27grateful, you know, or just, you know,

11:29what are you complaining about, you

11:31know, and and you know, most people

11:33wouldn't be able to walk, you know, a

11:36block in our shoes, you know, with with

11:38this stuff. And I think it was and then

11:41you have moments where you you resent

11:43things and you're angry at, you know,

11:47the feelings that you accumulate for not

11:50being clear or or not understanding, you

11:53know, why this. There's a lot of wise

11:55and you're not going to get all the

11:56answers, but you want to, you know, be

11:58able to get to a place where you're

11:59you're clear. So to answer the question,

12:01when did I decide when did I like, you

12:02know, when did I feel like that? maybe

12:05two years ago, maybe a year ago. You

12:08look at where your family has come from

12:10and look at your bloodline, you

12:13know, you look you look at, you know,

12:15your community like, man, there's a

12:17cycle there

12:19>> from generation to generation that

12:20happens.

12:22>> When you get to yourself, you're like,

12:23man, can I stop this? Can I change this?

12:27>> I could do this.

12:29>> Once you It's like once you once you

12:31know better, you got to almost do

12:32better. Once you see it, you can't unsee

12:34it.

12:35>> And I I refused to ignore it. I refused

12:37to see it an opportunity that I had to

12:40change things and act like it didn't

12:42exist. M

12:43>> and I think that was the thing for me

12:45that was like nah I I got to I got to

12:48>> if that's my purpose if that's my path

12:51>> is to just see it and I can see the

12:53pieces and if I can just continue to do

12:55this or if I stay down the pathway on

12:58that and I I might be able to make a big

13:01difference

13:02>> in my nephew's life or my my my future

13:05children's my future grandchildren's

13:06life. I got to do that

13:09>> because there's so been so many people

13:10that might that didn't that that it

13:13wasn't the perfect storm for them to

13:14have that opportunity. That's been

13:16something I've always felt since having

13:18the name Michael Jordan and

13:20understanding that there's another guy

13:21out there named Michael Jordan that was

13:23the best ever to do something and being

13:26teased and picked on about that and and

13:29and and made me for a moment not wanting

13:32to play sports, but then it was like,

13:34no, I'm actually going to make sure I'm

13:35compet I'm going to compete. At least

13:37I'm going to compete. You're going to at

13:39least see me. I'm going to be somebody

13:40that it's not going to be, oh, his name

13:42is this. is going to be oh no but he can

13:45play

13:45>> or oh no he can oh he he has something

13:48about him something that is formidable

13:51that is above average that is that is

13:54unique to him and and I it gave me a

13:57healthy chip you know so so and and for

14:00the people who are listening who you

14:02know who do have you know that doesn't

14:05feel like they can change the

14:07circumstances with the way they think or

14:09they feel just hold on

14:11>> just endure

14:13endure, you know, uh, look at things

14:16differently. Challenge yourself to look

14:17at things as the glass half full.

14:20>> Challenge yourself to think four steps

14:23ahead. Think your way through it. Like

14:25now we have so many tools. We have so

14:27much information.

14:28>> There's a lot of misinformation out

14:29there, but there [laughter] but there's

14:30so much information to

14:32>> to be curious. Find something that you

14:34that does resonate with you. Even if

14:36it's not in the world that you ever

14:39thought you would be in, find something

14:40that you align with

14:42>> and cuz everybody aligns with something.

14:44That's not an excuse I'm going I'm

14:45willing to take from anybody, you know.

14:47Align with something

14:49>> and find your find your positivity, find

14:51your intuition within that thing

14:54>> and and and be obsessed about it.

14:56>> What have you been obsessed with lately?

14:58like what would you say is the thing

15:00you're most obsessed with right now or

15:02or that you have been in the past couple

15:03of years that has kind of just

15:07>> attracted and

15:08>> I've been obsessed with getting my team

15:10right. M

15:12>> I've been obsessed with getting the

15:14right personnel on the right brain

15:16frequency and getting everybody on the

15:20same page

15:21>> to to

15:23accomplish these things that we need to

15:25go accomplish because I truly believe

15:28it's going to be better for everyone.

15:30>> I think it's really going to make an

15:31impact, you know. Um, and and so there's

15:34there's a there's a obsessiveness that

15:36you got to have to overcommunicate, to

15:38follow up, to be redundant, to be

15:41consistent, you know, that you need and

15:43and I'm obsessed about it, you know,

15:46strengthening my family.

15:47>> Mhm.

15:48>> I'm obsessed over it, you know, uh to

15:51lead by example.

15:52>> Mhm.

15:53>> You know, and break generational trauma

15:55and curses. Obsessed over it. M

15:58>> um and I'm obsessed over every project

16:01that I uh lend myself to.

16:05>> So this next movie that me and Ryan's

16:06doing, I'm literally, you know, I'm

16:08growing all my stuff out, you know what

16:09I mean? My hair and stuff out now. I'm

16:11becoming obsessed with it,

16:13>> you know, and that character. And

16:16>> it's it's a it's an addictive feeling to

16:18have a thought

16:20>> and see it come to fruition,

16:22>> to create something out of out of, you

16:24know, out of an from an idea.

16:26>> Yeah.

16:26um and to be persistent and to see it

16:30and to manifest it, you know, u

16:32manifestation. I I just love it. You

16:34know what I mean? It's just cool. So, so

16:36that's something that I've been I've

16:38been really really um

16:39>> locked in with.

16:41>> And I think it's also something that

16:44>> it's going to help people. You know,

16:46there's there's always um I don't want

16:48anything that's not multihyening. Mhm.

16:51>> I I want I want anything that I'm

16:53involved in it it it has to have layers

16:55to it. Um you know, how do you help? How

16:59do you educate? What's to leave behind?

17:03>> What blueprint am I leaving for the next

17:05generation? You know, I got a nephew

17:07now, you know, that is looking up at me

17:09constantly. Yes. Because of height, but

17:12also because of the example,

17:16>> you know, and he's mimicking everything

17:17I do. you mimicking anything. I can say

17:20something, do something. I can sit a

17:21certain type of way.

17:23>> Oh, snap. He's doing it, too. It's

17:24crazy. So, it clarifies your intention

17:27when you do things because you wanted to

17:30have, you know, purpose and intention,

17:32you know. Um, so th those are the things

17:36and I'm obsessed with being the best

17:38version of myself. And that's a daily

17:40thing, you know. Um, and some days are

17:42better than others. finding my myself in

17:47a world where

17:50there's so many

17:53seen opinions about yourself. Uh when

17:56everybody's telling you who and what you

17:58are, you know, learning how to live, you

18:02know, growing up in like and it's so

18:04wild. I've been doing this for 25 years

18:07straight, you know, and that's a wild

18:10thing to think about, man. More than

18:13half of my life has been my identity was

18:15been through the work that I've been

18:16doing

18:17>> and and growing up and with,

18:19>> you know, social media didn't exist and

18:22now it does

18:23>> at a point where I'm old enough to

18:25understand what that can do. So, I'm

18:28obsessed with finding myself now

18:31uh after and and not having to prove

18:34anything to anybody other than myself

18:37>> and my family, you know,

18:39>> but really myself

18:40>> and realizing that that is enough.

18:44>> You know what I'm saying? Like that like

18:46giving your best

18:48is enough.

18:49>> And and sometimes we lose track of that,

18:52you know? and and yeah, so for anybody

18:55out there, you know, you're enough, man.

18:58>> How have you been able to learn how to

18:59sense or understand whether someone's on

19:03that same brain wave and as you said or

19:05brain energy as you are and and has that

19:08same value set that you have?

19:10>> I think it's uh a lot of conversations

19:12and and and sometimes trial and error.

19:16Uh, I think my in my intuition and my

19:18gut is is the first, you know, lititness

19:22test is the first kind of line of

19:23defense, you know, that I that I have of

19:25like the energy's vibe. You know what

19:26I'm saying? Like, okay, that that that

19:28that you feel on par, you know, how you

19:31answer a question. What are the things

19:32that you're saying? You know, um,

19:35>> are you speaking from ego? Are you

19:36speaking about, you know, what what is

19:37the what is the thing? You know, you you

19:39know, we're used to we meet so many

19:41people. We have to use quick judgments

19:44>> and who gets our time, you know, um who

19:47do you open up to, who do you not? And I

19:49think when it comes to building into a

19:51team,

19:53>> especially nowadays, you're coming into

19:54something that's that's welloiled.

19:56>> Yeah.

19:56>> You're coming into a machine already.

19:58>> So, you have to fit not just with me,

20:00but you have to kind of fit with

20:02everybody.

20:02>> You know, you you you have to know how

20:04to communicate the things you need to

20:05know how to communicate to. you have to

20:07the the ego is something that can get in

20:09a lot of people's way when joining a

20:11team and joining something that's

20:12already really established and I think I

20:15think um coming to a place of learning

20:16and listening is really important and

20:18not taking things personally.

20:20>> Um I I think I think uh and then it's

20:22something to the people that's already

20:23been in the team to understand that

20:25there's going to be additions and there

20:28is a process of there's a onboarding

20:29there's a welcome there's a thing that

20:31you have to to bring people into the

20:33fold in a way to get the best out of

20:35them. So, I think there's been there's

20:37been those learning things along the way

20:38that's really that really helped me

20:40identify people who um that fit and work

20:43well within the circle, you know. Um and

20:46and uh yeah, I think that's been my my

20:49kind of process thus far.

20:51>> Uh and then yeah, I always want to

20:53create an environment where people want

20:54to be.

20:54>> Yeah.

20:55>> You know, you're not here for a check.

20:56>> Yeah.

20:57>> You're here because you believe in what

20:58we're doing and what we want to do.

21:00>> And I'm pretty transparent about those

21:02things, you know. So, so I think I think

21:04just being extremely transparent and and

21:06and forward with those things and and

21:08and know that it's nothing personal if

21:10this isn't it, you know, like I'm I'm

21:12the best I'm the

21:14>> I'm the guy that's always going to give

21:15you a great recommendation. You know

21:16what I mean? Like I'm I I want people to

21:18win. Yeah.

21:19>> You know, at the end of the day, I want

21:20people to win and and

21:22>> seeing somebody in their strengths,

21:24>> you know, and being like, "Okay, I I can

21:26use that that this this this would be

21:29helpful in this way." Um, and if that

21:31works out, it works out. And if not,

21:33then man, I man, I want to see you do

21:35well.

21:35>> Yeah, I love that. Yeah, we I remember

21:37years ago I was listening to Eric

21:39Schmidt, who was the CEO of Google for a

21:41bit,

21:41>> and he was talking about how they were

21:42looking for smart creatives. And I love

21:44that that they had two words that kind

21:46of summed up what they looked for. They

21:48they look for people who are smart

21:49creatives. And for me, it became humble

21:51champions. I was like, I want humble

21:52winners. I want I want the people who

21:54can who want to win and have that

21:56ambition but are able to put their ego

21:58aside because then we're going to speed

21:59up getting there because the thing that

22:01slows you down from winning is ego. Like

22:04the thing that stops you from passing

22:05the ball is ego or you know bowing out

22:07and saying it's your turn is ego. And so

22:09but but you still have to have that

22:10champion mindship cuz it isn't just

22:12about oh yeah no no no you do your thing

22:15like and that was a big thing. And then

22:16the other thing that worked for me was I

22:18was like, I need to work with people

22:19that I could go to breakfast, lunch, or

22:21dinner with if we didn't work together.

22:23>> Do I actually want to go to breakfast,

22:25lunch, and dinner with this person?

22:26Because I probably will be when I'm

22:28traveling or on the road.

22:30>> That means I like spending time with

22:32them, which means I'm happy to coach

22:33them and I'm happy to learn from them.

22:35>> Exactly.

22:35>> Whereas if I don't want to and and

22:38initially I was like that. I used to

22:39just hire people who were great at what

22:40they did, but we didn't really have

22:42chemistry. Like we didn't we didn't we

22:44couldn't hang out. And that wasn't

22:45because they were wrong. It was also

22:47because I wasn't aware.

22:48>> Got you.

22:48>> And and then of course Yeah. the

22:50mission, the purpose is I mean that's

22:52core and centroid

22:54>> because even for you I mean you're

22:55spending time from your family with you

22:57know your team becomes your extended

22:58[clears throat] family. They they

22:59absolutely

23:00>> they are your family. You're eating like

23:01you said breakfast, lunch and dinner.

23:03You know like there's there's a part of

23:05you that

23:06>> you know it has to feel like I'm getting

23:09a little bit of my family here. And if

23:11it's not that, you know, it's really

23:13hard for me, you know, and obviously

23:14like, you know, you have a bigger

23:16company and there's employees and you're

23:17not going to be as personal with

23:19everybody within the company. You know,

23:20you're not having breakfast, lunch,

23:21lunch, or dinner with everybody, but but

23:23there's a there's a there's a feeling

23:25of, you know, I don't mind on a Sunday

23:29everybody at my house watching the game,

23:32spending time, cuz that's when not the 9

23:36to5 time to be creative or the 9 to5

23:38time to do the job. That's the That's

23:40the extra mile. That's the, "Oh, I had

23:43this idea and I was just thinking, oh,

23:44oh, we're looking at something together

23:45and this would be great." Though, the

23:47best ideas sometimes come from those

23:49just hang out moments and those moments

23:52where you're just spending time with

23:53with uh with people that you work with.

23:55So, yeah, I think that Yeah, you're

23:56right. That's that's really important.

23:58>> Yeah, for sure. When I before the

23:59obsession point that came up, which

24:01which was fascinating. I'm glad I asked

24:02you that and you went you went into it.

24:04you're talking about like, you know, you

24:06you live in an industry and you talked

24:07about social media where people have an

24:08opinion of you. People people even an

24:11opinion is like people have a lens

24:12because they've seen you in a particular

24:14light and I was wondering like what do

24:16you think something that people get

24:17right about you and what's something

24:18that people sometimes get wrong about

24:19you? Like what what do you feel like

24:21when it comes to that? Like I'll tell

24:22you mine. Like I feel like for me a lot

24:25of people think that

24:26>> I get like often because of what I teach

24:29and what I'm sharing and what I'm

24:30guiding it's like oh well Jay must get

24:32everything perfect all the time and like

24:34you [laughter] know he's like super deep

24:35and like always just saying profound

24:37things and and that's not true obviously

24:39because as much as that is who I am and

24:42that is my heart, I'm not always like

24:44that. Like I have I have bad days. I

24:46have bad moods. I have off days. I have

24:48I have days when I'm not feeling that

24:50way. Right. And so that's that's

24:52something that people get wrong about me

24:53sometimes in that in that perception

24:55because but I'm dedicated to this work.

24:57I'm obsessed with it. I'm obsessed with

24:59being better. But that doesn't remove me

25:01from having flaws and weaknesses

25:04>> and and so yeah,

25:05>> you should do a blooper reel.

25:07>> You you should do a blooper outtake reel

25:09of those moments. You ask your team

25:11catch you in these little moments and

25:12you should put one out. That'll be fun.

25:14>> That would be fun.

25:15>> That would be fun. I think that it

25:16[laughter] Yeah, I like that. I like

25:18that.

25:18>> That would be a good one.

25:19>> I like that. I think for me it's like I

25:21think I've intentionally stayed out the

25:24way so much where I'm not giving anybody

25:27any anything to go off of other than

25:30what I want you to know.

25:32>> You know, I think I think that's been it

25:34for a long time. I've always had the

25:36approach of like not speaking on things

25:38and not giving them life. You know,

25:39there's there's there's going to be

25:41perspectives and there's things about

25:43you that just aren't true.

25:45>> Uh do you do you care to correct

25:48somebody or not? You know, because most

25:49of the time people's minds are made up.

25:51No matter what you say, it is what it's

25:53going to be. You know, stay out the

25:54comment section. You know what I mean?

25:55You get some great entertainment in

25:57there, but then you can get a lot of

25:58stuff that is just people who want to

26:02project

26:03the thing that's going to get the most

26:05attention.

26:06>> And the issue that I have with a lot of

26:08that is they can be completely false.

26:12And we have a a industry of we were

26:15talking earlier the lack of journalism,

26:17the skill of that that will run with

26:20those things knowing that there is no

26:22basis to them. But now that's a

26:23narrative that's attached to you that

26:26you have to be strong enough and strong

26:29minded enough to ignore knowing it's not

26:31true or this human nature feeling of

26:33wanting to know that's not true. I want

26:36people to know this about me. And I've

26:39always walked on that line of,

26:43>> you know, not caring,

26:45trying not to care,

26:47>> and

26:49knowing that I'm enough and and and

26:50knowing my truth and the people who know

26:52me know me. You know, I am

26:55>> about my community and my people, you

26:57know, wholeheartedly. And a lot of the

27:01choices that I make and the things that

27:02I want to do and be a part of is in

27:04service of that bigger picture, you

27:06know, of of helping that, you know, my

27:08community in a in a big way. Um, so I

27:11think the biggest thing sometimes if if

27:13they ever feel like that they're not my

27:16top priority is maybe one of the biggest

27:20misconceptions. M

27:22>> um you know the the love I have for my

27:26community

27:27>> regardless of people's approach I think

27:30everybody has a different strategy and

27:32approach to how they affect and make

27:34change.

27:36>> Everybody it doesn't all look the same.

27:37Mhm.

27:38>> Um, and because it may not be typical or

27:44the average voice because the package is

27:48different and the craft and my field is

27:52different.

27:53>> So, I have a different set of boundaries

27:56that exist in my lane that I maneuver

27:59without

28:01>> in and out of.

28:03>> Like, I love playing chess. I love I

28:04love I love strategy. I love I love

28:07rever reverse engineering and building

28:09things. So I I think I think that's one

28:12of the the biggest things. And you know

28:18sometimes ignorance and a laugh or a

28:20joke or a like or a thing we've we've uh

28:24encouraged the behavior

28:27>> of negativity and things and loudness is

28:30all is the thing and and and that's just

28:32not what that's not what I'm into.

28:34>> Yeah. I'm into the love of things. I'm

28:36into the the humanity and bringing

28:38people together the best way and but

28:40also [snorts] I'm human.

28:41>> Yeah. No, I I appreciate that. I mean, I

28:43I also think we've put a false pressure

28:47on the definition of authenticity,

28:49meaning you share everything with

28:51everyone. M

28:52>> and I'm not sure I vibe with that

28:55definition because I think authenticity

28:58by nature is you sharing what you feel

29:01comfortable with each person. Like

29:04that's what it means to be authentic.

29:06And you could argue that authentic just

29:08means being however you want to be in

29:09any given situation. And so I think

29:12there has become a false pressure of oh

29:14you got to show you're authentic by

29:15showing every part of yourself. And I

29:19don't know if that that triggers

29:20anything for you is like what's the

29:21definition of authenticity for you or

29:23for me that's what it is but what is it

29:25for you? I think it's um but then in

29:28hindsight there's a there's a piece of

29:29it that not even just to go back but

29:31there's there's also like maybe that's

29:34my

29:36insecurity framing what

29:39the loudness of the things that

29:42I'm most sensitive of

29:44>> is is this noise somehow

29:47>> yeah it triggers us for a reason

29:49>> it it you know what I'm saying

29:50>> there's some stuff that you just go oh

29:52yeah

29:52>> yeah whatever but it's like but some

29:54stuff that's just like man like why is

29:56Why does that bother me so much?

29:57>> Like there's something there's something

29:59about that that because I know what that

30:02does in the bigger like I'm always

30:04thinking bigger picture. It's very

30:05rarely that I really focus on the thing.

30:09It's always about what's the cause of

30:11that in a bigger conversation, you know?

30:13Um, the the authenticity to me

30:18is being able to sleep at night, being

30:20able to go talk to my mom and and and

30:22knowing that the the people that know

30:25me, every fiber of my being, every my

30:28intention knows my heart through and

30:30through that they see the same person.

30:35>> They're able to connect with the same

30:37energy and the same vibe and the same

30:39spirit. My energy has never changed,

30:41>> you know. I think being authentic to

30:43that frequency is super important to me.

30:45No matter where I go, no matter how I

30:47evolve, um, and have to mature and grow

30:52up, I want my energy to always feel the

30:55same. That's why when you meet certain

30:56people and it's been years that go by

30:58and you pick right back up where you

30:59left off, it feels like no time is lost.

31:01That energy is never it's always the

31:02same.

31:03>> And I I love when people I haven't seen

31:06in a long time or

31:07>> come at me like, man, whoa, it feel, you

31:09know, it's the same. And that and that

31:10that just lets me know that I'm not

31:12losing myself and I'm not losing track

31:14of, you know, who I am.

31:16>> Yes.

31:16>> And where I come from and uh I am always

31:21going to be an agent of change,

31:23>> Trojan horse or not. You know what I'm

31:25saying?

31:26>> And and yeah, you just and continue to

31:28lead by example. You know, I I know I

31:31know um

31:32>> the path that I'm on isn't easy. you

31:34know, sometimes it may look easy, you

31:36know, uh, for the successes or whatever,

31:39but but it's, uh, behind closed doors,

31:41I'm doing I'm doing the the the work so

31:45the future generations have it a little

31:47bit easier

31:48>> or have a little bit more tools to use.

31:51>> Um, and they can ask for certain things

31:54that won't be like, what? It'll be

31:56almost standard for them,

31:58>> you know. And you know, from my vantage

32:01point, I'm able to see a lot of the road

32:04blocks that exist within systems, you

32:09know, and and paperwork and precedents.

32:12I've been chipping away at those

32:15>> where I can in places. And there's so

32:18many, look, I say I a lot in this

32:20interview. There's so many people out

32:22there that are doing that type of work,

32:24you know, that exist, men and women in

32:26these places that are breaking down

32:29doors that are chipping away. It's like

32:31Shaw Shank Redemption,

32:32>> you know, gra at a time, gravel at a

32:35time, you know, eventually that hole is

32:38going to be open. You know what I'm

32:39saying? Eventually, it's going to be

32:40open, but just chipping away. And

32:43unfortunately, everybody can't be the

32:45loudest one in the room,

32:47>> you know? Got to be sometimes you got to

32:49be the quiet guy in the room. You got to

32:50listen and and look and pay attention

32:54>> and and and move how you need to move.

32:57Uh the chess pieces, they have different

32:59rules and different movements for a

33:01reason,

33:02>> you know, and they're on the board in

33:03different places for a reason. And and

33:06uh I know my place on the board.

33:08>> And I think that's that's what it comes

33:09down to, right? It's like I appreciate

33:11you bringing out that point around how

33:13things that trigger us

33:16>> give us somewhere to focus on

33:19>> in our within ourselves. Like I feel

33:21like that too. Like I'm like there's

33:23certain things that just don't phase me

33:25at all and I can look like the most

33:27detached guy and like

33:29>> I'm you know I'm bulletproof.

33:31>> Then there's something that gets through

33:32that vest. It's just just like

33:34>> and and you know it's because there's a

33:36part of it that feels true

33:38>> and and there's a part of you that

33:40you've allowed for it to feel true

33:42>> because it could be that you

33:46are there's there's a part of your

33:48self-esteem you haven't worked on.

33:49There's there's something you took from

33:50your childhood and made true for you and

33:52now when someone else says it and you

33:53didn't even know where it came from. Uh,

33:55you know, I was talking to a friend the

33:56other day and we were talking about how

33:58one of his mentors was letting him down

34:00and

34:01>> we discovered in that I've been friends

34:03with this guy for like 20 years.

34:06>> We're best mates

34:07>> and it was like 20 years later we

34:09figured out that he'd made his mentor

34:11his father figure.

34:12>> Okay.

34:12>> And he didn't really put two and two

34:14together until just now. And neither did

34:16I for him. And he was like, "Wait a

34:18minute. No wonder I'm feeling so much

34:20pain with this mentor of mine because

34:22I'd made him a father figure and gone

34:24through that feeling of he's Superman

34:25and now realizing he's not even though

34:27I'm a 40-year-old man for him.

34:30>> And so it's just so interesting how the

34:32stuff that gets under our skin.

34:33>> Yeah.

34:34>> It can just be hidden there and it gets

34:36stale and stuck and and then you don't

34:39look at it because you're like, "Oh, no,

34:40no, it's nothing. It's nothing." But at

34:42one point when you feel safe enough, you

34:44have to kind of like look under the hood

34:45and go,

34:46>> you know, why is that there? But coming

34:48on to the point you were just making

34:49around paving the way for others and

34:53setting an example and the

34:54responsibility that comes with and like

34:56you said there's so many people doing

34:58that.

34:58>> I feel like how would you define your

35:00current purpose? Like how do you define

35:02with everything you're doing cuz you

35:04talked about purpose being a big thing

35:06for you and you talk about the mission

35:07of your company like what is the purpose

35:10of that work? Who which doors are you

35:12trying to open? Which

35:13>> paperwork are you trying to shift? What

35:15systems are you trying to affect? I

35:16think I have my purpose right now.

35:18>> Yeah, that's what I mean. Yeah. you

35:19know, I I think I have a a chapter 25

35:22years acting. Um, you know, producing,

35:26you know, being in front of the camera,

35:27being talent, learning so much about the

35:31world, about myself, about the industry,

35:33you know, I think being a a

35:37representative as a from my community in

35:39a in a way that places that a black

35:41actor hasn't gone,

35:43>> you know? Um, obviously you have the

35:44greats, you have the Wills and the

35:45Denzels, you know what I'm saying? That

35:47that I look up to in a big way that, you

35:49know, that that through their talent,

35:51the the the business and the craft has

35:54extended to a new height.

35:56>> So, they've opened up doors for me that

35:58I didn't even know was possible that now

35:59it's like, "Oh, wow. Now we have this

36:01and that. Now I could do that and do

36:02that." So, they've kicked the door down

36:04in a way that's like, you know,

36:07eternally grateful.

36:09So like leading by example is is a big

36:12purpose, you know, to for people to be

36:13able to see it because it was big for me

36:15to see it

36:16>> and think that I can do it too. So

36:18there's that there's that part of it.

36:19>> Yeah.

36:20>> There's the um

36:22>> the business side of things that I've

36:23got an opportunity to learn from

36:26investing your money. You know, what do

36:28you do with the the savings and the

36:30things that you do have?

36:32>> I'm big sports guy, you know. I've

36:34always wanted to, you know, own a team.

36:36I'm competitive. I wanted to be involved

36:38in that in that in that environment,

36:39that energy, you know, of sports and

36:42found a football team, you know, in

36:43Bournemouth and a great park as well.

36:46Yeah. Football your word, but soccer.

36:48I've literally had to like, you know,

36:50bike my I cannot say soccer anymore.

36:53Say football. Yeah. Yeah.

36:54>> Uh and and um great great partner and

36:58you know, Bill Foley and he owns the Las

37:00Vegas Golden Knights and and really

37:02trying to turn that program around and

37:04and just just amplify it in a big way.

37:06But learning, you know, how to invest in

37:09those things,

37:10>> you know, uh, oh, there's going to be a

37:12new stadium. Oh, there's opportunity to

37:15invest in real estate.

37:17>> Oh, wow. Now you're investing in real

37:19estate in something that's going to be

37:20around for, you know, however many year

37:23lease and this and that. Okay, cool. I

37:25could take that and oh wow uh invested

37:28in you know started a a JV for you know

37:33um underneath an umbrella company to

37:35have your own product and then from

37:37there you can create another JV. Oh you

37:39can invest capital. Oh you can have a

37:41venture fun. Oh. Oh snap. Okay. Wow.

37:43This is a whole other game. This is a

37:45whole other nuance of uh acquisitions

37:48and investment [snorts] and capital that

37:51I never even knew exist. I'm I'm used

37:52to, you know, W9 forms and taxes, you

37:56know, like, you know what I'm saying? On

37:57that, you know, on on the talent side,

37:59there's a whole other game to be played.

38:01Um, and and taking that information,

38:05just the information that that exists

38:08>> and what that would do to, you know, to

38:11to the next generation, you know,

38:13knowing what's available to him,

38:15>> knowing that there's other ways to

38:16maximize my my my brand, you know, your

38:20brand. um creating things, ownership of

38:23things

38:25>> um as streamers and studios and there's

38:28there's so many other platforms that you

38:30know people are content crazy

38:32>> you know podcasts you know it's become a

38:34business as well you know a new you know

38:36a new venture that that people are be

38:37able to monetize their own their own

38:39following their own their own likeness

38:41in a real way retirement what does that

38:43look like really

38:45>> you know do you know really a will

38:49leaving a will behind like what like I

38:52mean know I mean there things that you

38:53just don't get taught you know there's

38:54nobody you know so so I've stumbled on

38:56it upon it these things within my

38:58success and my intuition and my

39:00partnerships and my relationships that

39:03but again it goes back to like the why

39:05me this one guy you know that has got

39:07has gotten access to all these things

39:09and my man over here or my guy over

39:11there nope that you guys would never

39:13know about none of these things because

39:14of how whatever your life path has taken

39:17you has not been in these areas or

39:19nobody's had the opportunity to say

39:21those things to you. So, I put that on

39:23me as a purpose to be able to to give

39:25that information,

39:27>> you know, in a real way and identify

39:29the, you know, people that are hungry

39:31enough and, you know, that want it, you

39:33know, that want it. They got to want it

39:34and they got to be a then come on, let's

39:36go figure it out.

39:37>> All right, let me let me let me figure

39:39out how to help set you up with the

39:40right people so you got the right

39:42conversations, you know, and then you

39:43also got to be careful who you help,

39:45too. You know, you can't you know, you

39:46want to help everybody, but you can't

39:47help everybody. Um, but you can leave a

39:51blueprint for everyone.

39:53>> You know, sometimes that's all a person

39:56should need sometimes is seeing it and

39:59and being in and in and the thought.

40:01Then you got to leave it on the person

40:03to do their their part of the work to

40:06lift that part of the weight to put on

40:09that burden to go do that for

40:11themselves, their family, their their

40:13their people within their their circle

40:16and stuff.

40:16>> Yeah. Like is there a lesson that you

40:18learned recently that you're like I wish

40:20I learned this one earlier?

40:21>> I think

40:23being unapologetically

40:26honest with what you want

40:30>> and that and that goes across the board.

40:32I was trying to think of something that

40:33kind of crossed the board. if you can

40:37communicate your truth

40:40and and and not worry so much about how

40:43somebody's going to react to what you

40:44say because a lot of times the fear of

40:47how somebody's going to react to what

40:49you you really want to say is what stops

40:51you from saying it sometimes and you

40:53find another [clears throat] way or you

40:55put it off or you don't say it and maybe

40:57the situation doesn't change

40:59>> and and you get frustrated and upset

41:01with why this thing doesn't change

41:02because you kind of maybe might not have

41:04said it the way you wanted to say, you

41:06know, and I think there's a, you know, a

41:09way to be unapologetically and still be

41:11respectful

41:12>> and speak your truth.

41:15>> If I think I would have done that

41:16earlier,

41:17>> well said. Yeah.

41:18>> I I I would have been further along in

41:23relationships that I have with people I

41:25care about

41:27>> and and and not intimately. I mean I

41:29mean I mean AC across the board rel uh

41:32work relationships, business, family,

41:35female friends, you know, whatever it

41:37may have been. I think being honest with

41:39with with where you stand and how you

41:41feel, it's really giving another person

41:44an option and opportunity to be as

41:46honest with you

41:48>> and whatever your fear of that is of

41:50that outcome, it's never really as big

41:53as what you make it up to be. You know,

41:55it's really not that. So I would say I

41:57would say maybe just being being being

41:59honest and um and living with the

42:01results you know and and tomorrow is not

42:04promised to anyone

42:05>> but time will move on you know you will

42:08move past That's it.