Full transcript
0:00What does fixing the doom loop look
0:01like?
0:01>> What does fixing it means clipping it.
0:03It means cutting it at a particular
0:04place. So, um all addictions, getting
0:08out of addictions, they have sort of
0:09three steps in common. It's It's really
0:12behaviorally they have three steps in
0:13common. Now, I'm not talking medically.
0:15I'm not talking about the medical
0:16interventions because that's different
0:17for different things with gambling and
0:18drinking and methamphetamine and
0:20whatever.
0:21But the three behavioral steps in
0:22getting out of an addiction are number
0:24one, you got to get pissed.
0:26You got to get pissed. It's like, "This
0:28is subjugating me. This is I'm in a cage
0:31and I'm tired of it. I'm tired of
0:33actually being a wholly owned subsidiary
0:35of that company or this behavior or this
0:37culture. I'm tired of it. I'm not going
0:39to put up with it." You need to fight
0:40back by rebelling. That's number one.
0:42You need the spirit of rebellion. If
0:44you're not ready to rebel, you're not
0:45going to get out. Number two is you need
0:48to figure out how to stop. You need to
0:50actually have an algorithm. And that's
0:52dependent on what the substance or
0:54behavior actually is. There's different
0:55ways to do it, but there's tons of
0:56science in every area. If you can get
0:58addicted to it, there's science that
0:59tells you how to stop. Mm. And then the
1:01third is you have to learn how to live
1:04with yourself again.
1:05Because you've been distracting yourself
1:07from yourself. If you're addicted to
1:08something, it means you didn't like
1:09being home in your head. That's what it
1:11comes down to.
1:12>> Mm.
1:12>> And, you know, if like I I haven't I
1:14haven't had a drink since I was 38 years
1:15old, right? And I remember in my 30s I
1:19didn't like being home in my head.
1:20Didn't like it. Didn't want to be there,
1:22right? And so I left, right? I got a
1:24little relief. I got a little vacation
1:26in the bottle.
1:27And it just it was going nowhere good
1:30and it was really clear and then my dad
1:31died and and and, you know, a couple of
1:33people I cared about said,
1:35"This you're That's your future." You
1:37just saw your future. Right? And so I
1:40stopped.
1:41But it was The hard part was step three.
1:44The hard part was actually being alone
1:46with myself, being awake with myself,
1:48being alive with myself is what it comes
1:50down to. And that's probably even more
1:52extreme for people who are very, very
1:53online. Because you're trying to break
1:55the doom loop of a technology is
1:57breaking your brain, not letting you
1:59find the meaning of your life, making
2:01you angry and depressed, and anxious,
2:03and lonely.
2:05You're addicted, which is why you keep
2:06doing these self-terrible,
2:07self-destructive things to yourself. You
2:09first you get pissed, and second you got
2:10to quit, and look, I got the algorithms
2:12to help you do that. But then, man,
2:15you need your friends.
2:17Like, you know, you need you need to
2:18live in a society. You need to live, you
2:20know, in people who are alive in real
2:23life, and you have to
2:25be able to sit behind
2:27the wheel of your car at a red light
2:30with nothing to do
2:32in your thoughts,
2:33right? And be in a supermarket checkout
2:35line
2:36without your phone.
2:38And and walk before dawn
2:41without a device.
2:43And hear the crunch of the gravel under
2:45your feet, and say that's the sound of
2:47my feet on the path.
2:50And that takes work.
2:53>> How easy is it to recover from this? I
2:55think a lot of people feel like they're
2:57lost and
2:58totally unrecoverable.
2:59>> It's absolutely possible. I've seen it
3:02again and again and again and again. I
3:03mean, look, this is this
3:05this is not heroin
3:07that we're talking about here. I mean,
3:08the the the process of detox, for
3:10example, isn't You don't even have to
3:11give up your phone.
3:13You just have to put it in proper
3:14boundaries, and have some rules in your
3:15life, right? And and actually have some
3:17proper habits. And you know, where our
3:19life is if you have a fairly functional
3:20life, you've got good habits already,
3:22right? I mean, you get up at a certain
3:23time, you work out every day,
3:25you eat something you don't eat like an
3:2711-year-old. I mean,
3:29you have good habits. And then you just
3:30put protocols around it. You know, it's
3:32like Huberman talks about protocols, and
3:34which has kind of infected the culture.
3:35It's a culture of protocols. Um and and
3:37I'm I'm an absolute believer in that
3:39when it comes to your phone.
3:41I mean, you you wake up in the morning,
3:43if you can, don't look at it at all for
3:44the first hour for neurocognitive
3:46programming. If you're a journalist, or
3:48you know, you have your job, you got to
3:49look at it, make sure nothing's is fire,
3:50but put it down. That's it for the hour,
3:52right? First hour of the day.
3:54While you eat, neurocognitive
3:56programming while you eat is critically
3:58important. It's best not to eat alone
4:00and never eat with your device.
4:02>> Why?
4:03>> Brain is is actually your the the
4:05neuropeptides in your brain, most
4:06notably oxytocin, uh they flow very
4:09liberally when you're eating with
4:10somebody. This is how, you know, Homo
4:11sapiens would establish and and foster
4:13kin bonds
4:15is by sitting around a campfire, putting
4:16pieces of yak meat into their mouths,
4:19discussing their day and looking into
4:21each others' eyes. That's how we're
4:23wired. If you have a phone on the table
4:24while you eat, or God forbid if you're
4:26looking at it, there's no the none of
4:28this neurochemistry happens.
4:30>> What if you're in your room?
4:31>> Then, um you might read a book.
4:33You might listen to music.
4:35But don't look at your phone.
4:36>> Um there's a meme online of a guy
4:39starves to death even though he had food
4:41because he couldn't watch YouTube cuz
4:43his phone had run out of a
4:44>> Or or it's like or or died of sepsis cuz
4:46he didn't go to the bathroom.
4:48>> Yeah.
4:49>> Yeah.
4:49>> He couldn't take his phone in there. So,
4:51and last but not least it's the last
4:52hour of the day. Now, that part of that
4:53is sleep architecture and blue light,
4:55etc. etc. The pineal gland, melatonin,
4:57yada yada. We all know the physiology of
4:59that. But part of that is just the way
5:01that you actually understand yourself at
5:03the end of your day and get ready to
5:05rest. If you're living with your
5:07partner, that's critically important to
5:09your relationship is not to be looking
5:11at your device in the last hour so you
5:12can be at fully present as you drift off
5:14to sleep together. That's super super
5:17important for your relationship. But
5:18just those three things.
5:20Then there's phone-free zones. You
5:21shouldn't have your phone in the
5:22bedroom, ever ever ever ever, because I
5:25mean, God forbid you get up to pee at
5:273:00 in the morning and look at your
5:28phone. That's a big mistake.
5:30>> lover.
5:31>> Well, I mean, it's it's your pineal
5:32gland shuts off, right? No more
5:34melatonin for you.
5:36And and so, which is problematic on its
5:38face, but it's also you just you you
5:40spike your cortisol. I mean, it's bad
5:42stuff happens to you. So, the phone
5:44should be in a different floor, in a
5:46closet
5:47plugged in some place from
5:50the hour before you go to bed until the
5:51after an hour after you get up. That's
5:53number one. It's a phone-free zone.
5:55Second is that that I mean this is just
5:57you know basic public policy. There
5:58shouldn't be a
5:59a phone in any classroom in any school
6:02in the world between kindergarten and
6:04PhD.
6:05It is complete insanity. Because it
6:08interrupts everything that we're
6:09actually trying to do and it's it's
6:10child abuse
6:12that there's phones in classrooms. You
6:14know, there's and And the most important
6:15hour they shouldn't have phones is
6:16during lunch by the way. Mhm. Because
6:19they need to
6:20>> even worse. It shouldn't be in a
6:21classroom and it definitely shouldn't be
6:23in a cafeteria.
6:23>> I mean most of what's going on in the
6:24classroom is not that interesting to
6:25begin with. I mean, I don't think I ever
6:27learned anything in public school. I
6:28think it was mostly babysitting, but
6:30>> Yeah.
6:31>> But you know, at least I had friends
6:33and and and they don't have friends.
6:35And then and then people need phone
6:37fasts. They need technology fasts. I
6:39recommend 96 hours a year is kind of
6:42where this is and there's a little bit
6:43of research on this that shows that this
6:44actually can break the relationship that
6:47you have. So you prove to yourself that
6:49you actually don't need it and you're
6:50kind of in a state of bliss by the
6:51fourth day.
6:52>> Mhm.
6:52>> You know, it's really really I mean I go
6:53on a spiritual retreat every year for 4
6:55days. No phone. Oh, it's great. First
6:58day it's like children screaming in my
6:59head.
6:59>> Yeah.
7:00>> Second day I'm calming down for it.
7:01Third day I like it. The fourth day I
7:03wish it were the whole year.
7:05>> Mhm.
7:05>> That's what it comes down to. But just
7:06those things. Phone-free times,
7:08phone-free zones, phone fasts can re-
7:12can can can can do this part two. This
7:15does not give you part one, which is
7:17rebellion, or part three, which is you
7:20got to get comfortable back with
7:21yourself.
7:22>> Mhm.
7:23>> Different processes.
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