Kate McAndrew: The $100M Investing Playbook l Trailblazers Podcast Episode 40

0:00I've always been a seeker. I've always

0:02been interested in knowing myself. I've

0:04always been quite fearless in where I

0:06put myself and seen myself [music] as a

0:09great experiment. I think I was really

0:11raised in this culture that was about

0:13figuring out where your greatness was

0:16and not judging you for where that was,

0:18but just [music] expecting that if you

0:20found it, you would rise to it. There

0:22was something about people believing in

0:25me intrinsically where I didn't have to

0:28prove it. It was in me and that [music]

0:31carries me every day. I've had a lot of

0:34clarity around what I'm doing in this

0:36life, [music] why I'm here, how I want

0:38to show up, who I can show up for.

0:42So, we ask everyone this at the start of

0:44our podcast. If I talk to the people

0:46closest to you, how would they describe

0:48you? What would they say are your

0:49biggest strengths and what would they

0:51say is your biggest weakness? Well, my

0:53sister once described me as a whirling

0:55dervish,

0:56>> which I think was like the most hilar

0:58First of all, like it's a hilarious

1:00piece of language, right? Like I feel

1:02like a whirling dervish. Who even says

1:04that anymore? And I feel like there's

1:05something about

1:06>> Is that like old British? Like

1:08>> it's very like it's very old British.

1:10She went to UN University of St.

1:12Andrews, so she has this kind of maybe

1:14like some Britishisms, but um

1:17>> so they would say I'm passionate. They

1:19would say I beat to my own drum. Mhm.

1:22>> They always have all these traits.

1:24>> Always have. I've always been

1:25passionate. I've always done my own

1:26thing. Um I think they'd say I'm a great

1:29mom. That's become a huge part of my

1:32identity. Um and I think those are the

1:34three things they would say.

1:35>> Okay. And what about weaknesses? What's

1:37like the one thing they would say you

1:39struggle with?

1:40>> I would say um

1:45Huh.

1:47So the truth is my family really focuses

1:49on strengths and I think that's part of

1:51the family culture and that's part of my

1:53work culture and that's part of how I

1:55talk to founders. I really encourage

1:57people to focus on where you're

2:01exceptional and doubly down on that as

2:03opposed to worrying about your

2:04weaknesses. Totally.

2:05>> So I would I would say my weaknesses are

2:09um I'm not a lone wolf, right? I'm a

2:13collaborator. doing anything in

2:15isolation does not work for me. So, and

2:17I've learned that and I think my family

2:18knows that. It's also how I move through

2:21the world. I do very little alone and I

2:23think there's a cultural understanding

2:25of that as being, oh, you're afraid to

2:26be alone. You're not good at finishing

2:29things. You're not processoriented.

2:32Actually, I'm just someone who thrives

2:33in collaboration. I thrive in community.

2:36And so the way that I move through the

2:38world is both an acknowledgement of my

2:41weaknesses and this really natural way

2:44of um hiring around them or like totally

2:47the world in a way that makes that less

2:49of a thing. Um so I'm a starter. I'm an

2:52Aries moon. Like we like to get stuff we

2:54like to get stuff started, right? I'm a

2:56Capricorn. I'm extremely hardworking. Um

3:00I'm a Virgo. Like I love a spreadsheet.

3:03I like to get things done. But my gift

3:04is really in the beginning. My gift is

3:08in the strategy, not in the growth,

3:11long-term execution. That is best done

3:14in partnership. It's also why I do

3:16preede. Like I was going to say product

3:18market fit, baby. Like that's my that's

3:20my stage. I love it. I think it's worth

3:23practicing and focusing on. And I have a

3:26lot of respect for growth investors and

3:28for folks who have a different

3:29archetype. But I'm very clear about like

3:31who I am, how I show up, why the era of

3:34investing that I'm in is right for me.

3:36And I think that's actually quite

3:38emblematic of the rest of my life.

3:40Totally. And I love this concept too

3:41that like you just know yourself so well

3:43that you're not going to force yourself

3:45to do gross stage investing. You're not

3:46going to force yourself to start a solo

3:47GP fund. Like you have this real clarity

3:49of self, which is really awesome. What

3:52contributed to that? How did you get so

3:54clear on your strengths and your

3:55weaknesses? And I say that because I'm

3:57someone where early on I took the VIA

3:58character strengths test. I don't know

4:00if you're familiar with it.

4:01>> It's like 24 globally accepted values.

4:04They're like judgment, humor,

4:06leadership, curiosity, creativity, zest

4:08for life. There's a bunch.

4:10>> And you take this test and it ranks them

4:12like 1 through 24. And human nature is

4:14to like look at your bottom five and be

4:16like, why am I so bad at those five?

4:18>> But what you're supposed to do, and to

4:19your point, and it sounds like your

4:21family did this well, is you look at

4:22your top five. you just double and

4:24triple down on those. Um, and so from

4:26like an early age, I felt like I had

4:27almost like a list of like you're good

4:29at this and you're not so good at that.

4:31>> What did you do to figure out the things

4:32that you're good at and maybe like sort

4:34of forget the things you're not so good

4:35at?

4:36>> I think I've always been a seeker. I've

4:39always been interested in knowing

4:40myself. I've always been quite fearless

4:43in where I put myself and seen myself as

4:46a great experiment. And I think that um

4:49that has taken me deeper and deeper into

4:52myself from a very young age. I would

4:54also say going to an all girls school

4:56shaped me incredibly. I went to a

4:57phenomenal all girls school that really

5:00created a culture of excellence that

5:02didn't prize athletic excellence over

5:04scientific excellence over you know the

5:07humanities. Everything was seen as um

5:10well so the motto of my al of my al the

5:14motto of my school was sir tan tamus we

5:16strive to rise and I think that is an

5:18actually an incredible encapsulation of

5:20the culture. It was not about being the

5:23best in one dimension, but it was about

5:24being your best. And so I think I was

5:27really raised in this culture that was

5:30about figuring out where your greatness

5:32was and not judging you for where that

5:34was, but just expecting that if you

5:37found it, you would rise to it.

5:39>> I love that.

5:40>> Yeah, it's very, very powerful. And I

5:42also think going to all girls school

5:44shaped me very deeply because I grew up

5:46mostly out of the male gays. I really

5:48didn't really have an awareness of what

5:50boys thought about me at all. Um I mean

5:54I had a boyfriend but they were kind of

5:56boys were like play things for the

5:58weekend, right? Like girls were the

6:00people who were doing the serious

6:01experiments who were achieving. And if I

6:03look at my high school class, there were

6:0667 girls

6:07>> and they are astronauts. They're artists

6:09who are exhibiting at the Whitney. They

6:11are I mean people have excelled in these

6:14really diverse ways. And so there's

6:16something about growing up in that

6:18context that I think continues to give

6:22me this real sense of self and

6:24excellence without judgment around how

6:26that excellence shows up.

6:27>> It sounds like a magical It's like the

6:28Barbie world, you know, like to grow up

6:30in that

6:31>> West School for Girls. Anyone who's got

6:33girls in LA, Western School for Girls,

6:35it was seriously it was seriously an

6:37incredible. It shaped me and I actually

6:39just got invited to um sit in Glorious

6:42Dynam's living room and go to a salon in

6:46her living room and I the first thing I

6:49No, I just got invited recently. Yeah.

6:51So recently she's airing in July. I was

6:54recently invited to join a salon in

6:56Gloria Steinham's living room and I

6:58actually messaged my high school history

7:00teacher um because she did an

7:03independent study with me when I was in

7:04my senior year on feminist studies and

7:07like she chose to take her time to do

7:10this extra reading with me and I

7:12messaged her and I was like you'll never

7:14believe this. I'm gonna go to meet

7:16Gloria Dynam and I'm gonna sit with her

7:18and 20 women and we're gonna talk about

7:20the world and she was like, I believe

7:21it.

7:22>> And so there was something about people

7:26believing in me.

7:28>> Yeah.

7:28>> Um intrinsically where I didn't have to

7:30prove it. It was in me and that carries

7:35me every day. Uh and it's what I'm

7:38trying to give to my son as well. It's

7:40beautiful. I also think there's

7:41something really clear about uniqueness

7:44that I'm picking up. Like a lot of these

7:46other graduates in your class became

7:48astronauts and are, you know, incredible

7:50artists. Those are not traditional

7:52career paths. I mean, I guess maybe when

7:53you're like 5 years old, you think like,

7:54I want to be an astronaut, but you know,

7:56it's it's when you get to high school,

7:58it's usually like, am I premed? Am I

8:00going to do business? Am I going to be a

8:01lawyer? Maybe an engineer. Um, how did

8:04they cultivate this like, you know,

8:06ability to understand your passions and

8:08then go go for it? because I think you

8:10know our traditional schooling systems

8:11like you take a history class or you

8:13take a French class and that's kind of

8:15like the extent of diving deep into your

8:17passions. Um what did is there something

8:19specific that they did other than that

8:20motto that made you guys all realize

8:22like oh wow I'm like really passion

8:24about feminist studies I'm really

8:25passionate about space like these are

8:26sort of like quirky side things that you

8:29would not expect a school to help you

8:31uncover.

8:33So I think that um I'm not a specialist

8:36in education and so I don't even

8:38understand all the things totally that

8:40they did but one of the things I think

8:42about is in English class in history

8:45class we always sat in a circle we sat

8:48in a circle because the mode was

8:50discussion the mode was not what is the

8:53right answer the mode is what is the

8:54right question right how do we go deeper

8:57into our own original thought I remember

9:00in ninth grade we learned to write a

9:03paragraph and our homework would be to

9:05write rewrite sentence after sentence

9:08after sentence. And there was great care

9:11and specificity with the depth of a

9:15given practice and we did it together.

9:17And so there's something about that that

9:21I think shaped the way that I think. I

9:23remember going to college. I went to a

9:24very good school and was just shocked

9:26that nobody could write

9:28>> you know and I was like you guys can't

9:30write. like you can't you can't write.

9:32And what what I realized is what they

9:34were doing was teaching me how to think.

9:35>> And that's the secret of it all. It's

9:37like when you go to law school, you're

9:38not learning how to be a lawyer. You're

9:39learning how to think.

9:40>> Correct.

9:40>> That's more of it than anything else.

9:41There's no like facts. It's just the

9:43process of doing.

9:44>> And I I think what they were interested

9:45in was raising phenomenal women. That

9:48was the project. They weren't interested

9:50in um helping people make a lot of

9:54money. They weren't interested in um

9:57being excellent in just one way. They

10:00were about raising excellent women,

10:02whatever that meant, however that showed

10:05up. And I so I'm I'm close with my

10:08sister, obviously. I keep mentioning my

10:09sister, but um one of my classmates is a

10:13nurse.

10:14>> And I was telling my sister about her

10:16>> and she was like, "This is the most

10:18Westridge nurse ever." Because she's not

10:20just a nurse, she became a nurse. And

10:22then she became a nurse that flies in

10:25helicopters in the backwoods to like

10:27rescue people. It's like that kind of

10:29thing of I'm a nurse, but what's the

10:32edge of that profession? What's the

10:35deepest I can go into that and show up

10:38in this radical way? Right. So I I and I

10:41think about her name is Jenny Mciny. Um

10:43and I think about her and it's like

10:45that's so Jenny,

10:47>> right? Um, so I yeah, and I'm very

10:49grateful that for that really and I

10:51think about it all the time. And how

10:53lucky to live such an authentic life,

10:55you know, like I think that is that's

10:57the greatest gift any education or any

10:59parent could give someone is that you

11:00get to the end of your life and you've

11:01lived such an authentic life. You're not

11:03just the nurse, but you're the nurse

11:04that does the thing. Maybe you're the

11:05nurse that loves nature, so you find a

11:06way to be like the ultimate helper in

11:08the back woods. Like that is that is the

11:10most probably gratifying feeling any

11:12human can have because we're all

11:13searching for meaning and we're all

11:15searching for meaning in a way that is

11:16like deeply authentic. And what a great

11:17gift that they gave you. I mean that's

11:19very powerful. I find it really

11:20interesting because a lot of people are

11:22like, "Oh, you're so good at like

11:25non-conensus investing."

11:27>> And what's interesting is I don't think

11:29about it that way. Like I don't think

11:30about what's consensus, what's

11:32non-conensus. I really think about first

11:34principles. And I think that comes from

11:36that all girls education. it comes to

11:39everything we're talking about like

11:41I approach each company I approach each

11:43person as its own potential entity right

11:46and I I really and I think for preede

11:49especially you can't invest in what's

11:51hot

11:53like you can't like what's hot today

11:56what's hot is about the harvest not

11:57about the planting right and with preede

12:00like you're investing 10 15 years ahead

12:03of the harvest so if you're focused on

12:06what's hot in the harvest what's hot in

12:07the discourse course you're behind.

12:09You're going to be paying too high of

12:10prices. So, there's all kinds of reasons

12:13why being non-conensus is good at

12:15preede. But I think thinking about

12:17yourself as non-conensus is not helpful.

12:19I think thinking about the first

12:22principles is what gets you there. It's

12:24the same thing as writing the perfect

12:25sentence. Like having having the ability

12:28to honor the sentence and uh really

12:31going deep into that and saying what's

12:33the original thought? Is that here?

12:35Right? Um, so that's kind of how I I

12:37approach it investing and where I see

12:39that in my career.

12:41>> I think also we've come to learn with a

12:43lot of examples that the best companies

12:46have really like end of one founders.

12:48You can't really put them in a box like

12:50you know maybe they're starting this

12:52really interesting healthcare business

12:53and they themselves were like a PA for

12:5620 or 30 years. They know this space

12:57better than anyone and you know there's

12:58not a lot of founders that are PAs

13:00potentially. I'm just giving a random

13:01example. or the astronaut that wants to

13:02do the thing. Like so much of investing

13:05is finding those people that are just so

13:07N of one because those are often the

13:08ones who create the best companies. Um I

13:11don't there's a recent piece which I can

13:12share with you if you haven't read it.

13:13Um Jet Foundation Capital wrote and and

13:16my favorite line from it is I've been

13:17thinking about this piece 24/7 which is

13:19why I bring it up. um like great

13:20institutions are a wrapper around a

13:22person

13:23>> and I've just it's like really stuck

13:25with me that like your it sounds like

13:27your ability too to really see like a

13:29full person and a person um for all

13:31their different quirks and e

13:33eccentricities um is what makes you such

13:35a great investor you know you can see

13:37beyond that

13:38>> interesting I actually really disagree

13:39with that

13:39>> okay tell me more

13:40>> I don't believe great institutions are a

13:41wrapper around a person

13:42>> okay tell me more

13:43>> I think great institutions are a wrapper

13:45around a set of values and ideals and

13:48beliefs

13:49that hopefully the people who are in

13:51that institution

13:54those things are authentic to them right

13:56if I think about what Bunst is it's not

13:58just me it's me and Matt and Axel and

14:01Tyler and it's our shared set of beliefs

14:05values

14:06um truths and that is what Bunst is and

14:10that means that Bunst can live beyond me

14:12if I want to retire in 20 years Bunst

14:14can live on because a new partner who

14:16embodies those beliefs

14:19those ideals can come in and live in

14:21that and that's actually how the great

14:23longitudinal firms were built. Sequoia

14:25was built around personalities, yes, but

14:27it stands for something else and that

14:29means that new people can come in and

14:31embody that. And so I think that if you

14:35think about institutions that are really

14:39long lasting, that reach back, that

14:40reach forward, they're about much more

14:42than one identity. The identity is just

14:45one instantiation of the greater belief

14:48and then hopefully how that is

14:50practiced, how that is embodied is

14:52passed down. Totally. Big institutions I

14:55mean they you can't physically have the

14:56same person running it forever, right?

14:58Because they will then retire and all of

14:59that. Um I think the thing I have seen

15:03the clearest is this idea that like it

15:05might start with one person or in your

15:06case a few people. the the institution

15:09is the summation of the values and the

15:11quirks of the person or the multiple

15:13people and that like you know if you

15:15just try to copy and paste like if

15:17you're trying to build your firm exactly

15:18like Sequoia did might not be so

15:21successful because you are such

15:22different people and you have your own

15:23strengths and so I think like the I

15:25think the root of that um line is more

15:28about exemplifying what the values and

15:31the quirks of each person are and yes

15:33putting it into an institution um but

15:35you can't copy and paste you know from

15:37someone else. And I think that's

15:38something you guys have done such a good

15:40job of is really being authentically

15:42yourself. Um that's really special and I

15:45think as you know well today is

15:49people are aware when something is not

15:51authentic.

15:52>> Yeah.

15:52>> Right. It's very easy to call that out

15:54especially young people. Right. It's

15:56it's um it's quite obvious when people

15:59are full of it. And so I think that

16:02there's been no better time to be

16:05rewarded for your own authenticity,

16:07right? And to share that. Um, and I

16:09think it's really a miss both personally

16:11and professionally when you don't do

16:12that because then I'm like, but where is

16:15all of you? What if all of you was here?

16:17What would that look like? That's so

16:18awesome. And it traces back to that, you

16:20know, that high school, that school

16:21experience because you can see all these

16:23people that have like been so

16:24authentically themselves, which is

16:25awesome. One thing I've learned talking

16:26to GPS on the show and in my own

16:28experience as a GP, your back office is

16:30a signal. How fast you close deals, how

16:33clean the LP experience is, how your K1s

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17:12I want to talk a little bit about how

17:13you discovered venture. So, you're

17:15sitting here with me and you're telling

17:17me about your extremely creative lineage

17:20of women. Um, you're sitting here in a

17:21really cool outfit, which like I feel

17:23like if I saw you walking on the street

17:24and didn't know you, I would think you

17:25were like in fashion or something.

17:27[laughter] Um, but yet you're a venture

17:28capitalist and I think a lot of people

17:30who don't know about our industry

17:32probably think that you would be like

17:33some like stuffy sort of like financiy

17:36type. Our industry does reward

17:38uniqueness at the earliest stages. So,

17:40to me, it makes total sense. But I'd

17:42love to hear how you found this industry

17:44and how you've made it your own. Like I

17:47feel that you are so authentically you

17:49as a VC and I'd love for you to share

17:51with everyone how you first discovered

17:52it.

17:53>> Completely by accident. Um I I knew

17:58nothing about what venture capital was.

18:00I knew I wanted to start something. I

18:02knew I was an entrepreneur at heart.

18:03That was very clear to me. At what age?

18:06My whole life. Like my whole life. um

18:09you know, second grade I was the person

18:11running the Oreo cookie milkshake ring,

18:13like you know, sending my first grade

18:15employees around the neighborhood. You

18:17know, that it's just who I am, right?

18:19It's just who I am. And when I was in

18:20college, I started a vegan cupcake

18:22business. I wasn't even vegan. I was

18:24just like, seems like there's a lot of

18:25vegans who want to have parties, start

18:27[laughter] the vegan bacon company, and

18:28I was a vegan.

18:30>> I was like, and I don't I don't even

18:31know why. Like, I just I was just I love

18:33to start things and I loved to offer

18:35things to the community. I was like,

18:36these people need this. I like doing

18:38this. I'm, you know, that's so I'm going

18:39to show up in that way. So, it was

18:41always in me and I was early to

18:42blogging. I was like blogging when I was

18:44in college. This is 2005, 2009. And um

18:48then I was at Lululemon and you know

18:50that was really interesting. I was not

18:52in the corporate office. I was like

18:53folding pants, you know, I was like

18:55working at Lululemon, working as a hair

18:56salon receptionist. It was 2009, global

18:59financial crisis. There were no jobs and

19:02[snorts] I just need to needed to

19:03hustle. Um, and I think at Lululemon, I

19:06kind of saw company culture, what that

19:09did, and I saw early experiments in

19:12social media marketing, right? We were

19:14hacking personal pages on Facebook and

19:16turning them into business pages. No one

19:18else was doing that. We'd started the

19:19first like one of the first run clubs. I

19:21was at kind of the flagship where we did

19:22a lot of these experiments.

19:23>> [gasps]

19:24>> So I did that for about a year and then

19:25I moved to LA and started a consultancy

19:27helping companies really executives

19:30learn about what social media was

19:32creating their strategy and then I would

19:34hire my like un undermployed you know

19:36English major friends to run their

19:37accounts. So I kind of had this hustle

19:40and I I really loved getting inside the

19:43businesses. I loved working with the

19:46seauite and even as in my early 20s I

19:49could do that like and I I realized I

19:51was good at that but I didn't want to

19:53tell other people you know what to put

19:55on Facebook for the rest of my life. So

19:56I actually decided to take a year off

19:58and volunteer so I shut down all my

20:01consulting clients. I bought a pickup

20:03truck. I drove across the country and I

20:04moved to a small town in North Carolina.

20:06Um which weirdly is how I got my first

20:08venture job. So, I was volunteering at a

20:10Habitat for Humanity job site building

20:11houses. And there were a bunch of um

20:14volunteers who were kind of retired

20:17bankers from New York who wanted to

20:19start an accelerator program. And I had

20:22been thinking like, "Oh, I have to go

20:23get my MBA. I want to start a company or

20:25I want to start a business. I have to

20:27learn how to do that." Even though I'd

20:29been doing it, but I was like, "Oh, I

20:30have to learn how to do that." But it

20:32didn't make sense to me to go into all

20:34this debt, you know? because I was like,

20:36"But I'm starting a business. Why would

20:37I want to have debt?" And um so they

20:41they mentioned, "Oh, I'm starting an

20:42accelerator program." And I was like,

20:44"What's that?" And they said, "Oh, well,

20:46we find people who want to start

20:48businesses. We give them money and we

20:49help them start it." And I I remember

20:51like the world stopped. Well, I was

20:54like, "Wait, you give them money and and

20:57then you help them start the company?"

20:59And they were like, "Yeah." And I had

21:01never heard of this. I was still in this

21:03paradigm of I have to pay for knowledge.

21:06And so this investment paradigm of

21:08someone invests in someone and then

21:10helps them start the company. It was

21:12like I don't know what that is, but I

21:14need to be part of that. And I was like,

21:16do you need anyone to help run it? And

21:18they were like, yeah, we need a program

21:19director. I was like, I'm your girl. So

21:22I was the program director for two

21:25years. I actually did my first 20 deals.

21:26The managing director like wasn't

21:28focused on investing. So I got to build

21:30a track record. to build a track record.

21:32>> And then one of those companies was a

21:34hardware biotech company that did very

21:36well and they were based in San

21:37Francisco and they invited me to come

21:39hang out in San Francisco. This was

21:402014. It was an extremely special time

21:42in San Francisco. I slept on the floor

21:45of their warehouse where they all lived

21:47and um I just knew immediately that

21:51that's where I needed to be. So I bought

21:52a U-Haul, moved to San Francisco and uh

21:56just hustled to find my first venture

21:57job. And I did. I got hired by a small

22:00fund that had just done one accelerator

22:02and they were raising their first preede

22:04fund, $32 million fund, all focused on

22:06hardware and software. I knew nothing

22:07about hardware and I convinced them to

22:11hire me and I was there for 8 years. I

22:12went from associate to partner, invested

22:15in some wonderful people, wonderful

22:17companies and then co-founded Balconst.

22:20Um, so it was it was really an accident

22:24where I found the place where all of me

22:28was welcome and I [clears throat] got to

22:30unleash myself and I think that that was

22:32really about being in the right place

22:36with the right people. I mean I was very

22:38lucky that the GPS that I was working

22:40with and one of them is still my partner

22:42they are my partner at Balk um

22:44phenomenal experience people who who

22:47believed in me and my specialness and

22:51invited me to go deeper and deeper into

22:53myself and find my own way in the work.

22:56Um and it was really a culture of

22:58iconoclasts and I'm I'm grateful to this

23:02day some of the best years of my life. I

23:03worked 80 hours a week and they were

23:05some of the best years of my life. Um,

23:07so

23:07>> that's always the best when you can get

23:08that combination of like deeply

23:09fulfilling and also just putting out a

23:11lot of output.

23:12>> Totally. And that's where you're I to me

23:14I think that's where you're tapping into

23:15the like universal energy that is

23:17unending.

23:18>> Like every time I did more, I got more

23:20energy. And so I think I was like

23:22connected to the source. And so it

23:24wasn't draining me, it was propelling

23:26me.

23:26>> Yeah. And

23:27>> that's when it's really powerful because

23:30nothing can stop you, right? And nobody

23:32can touch you. Mhm.

23:33>> Because like you're in your own flow,

23:35right? And I think that I again like so

23:38my my partner Axel, who I've now been

23:40investing with for over a decade, well

23:42over a decade, um he had been in venture

23:44for a long time. He sold his first

23:46company out of MIT in the late '8s and

23:48became a VC. And um you know, he's been

23:51extremely successful. He flies under the

23:52radar. He doesn't post online. No one

23:54knows who he is, which is what he

23:55prefers. But he didn't care what anybody

23:59thought about him. He had no interest.

24:01All he cares about is building great

24:03companies.

24:04>> And so he brings first principles

24:06thinking.

24:07>> He He really did. He I've never met

24:09anyone who cares less what anybody

24:11thinks about [laughter] him.

24:12>> It's refreshing.

24:12>> It's It's amazing. And so I to me I just

24:15thought that was normal,

24:17>> right? Like I And again, it was kind of

24:18like the all girls school where it was

24:21normal to be excellent in your own way.

24:23It was normal to all of these things

24:25were normal. Growing up in that venture

24:27firm, it was normal to not care what

24:30anybody thought about you. It was normal

24:32to like be non- consensus, right? Not

24:35for the point of it, but just because

24:37you were looking at the underlying

24:39company in a real way. So, um, it was a

24:42phenomenal culture and really the

24:43underpinnings of what we're doing now.

24:45>> Yeah. It's awesome and it's so sweet

24:46that you can take that relationship with

24:48you into this next phase. I mean, that's

24:50that's everything, right? It's good

24:51people. That's all this business is

24:52about.

24:52>> Yeah. And it's like we're this gives you

24:55a sense of Axel. He's first of all,

24:56hopefully he never listens to this, but

24:58like he's so modest, but um you know,

25:01he's in his 50s and there are not a lot

25:04of older men who would be equal partners

25:08with a woman that they hired when she

25:10was 26,

25:11right? I mean, just think about

25:13>> even the ego of it all too.

25:14>> Thousand%. And like

25:15>> separate from the economics, just the

25:17ego.

25:17>> Yeah. Well, exactly. Exactly. It's not

25:19about the money. He has plenty of money,

25:21but not many people have the ability to

25:24put their ego aside.

25:25>> Yeah.

25:26>> And cuz he he care all he cares about is

25:29the great outcome.

25:30>> Yeah.

25:30>> He wants to work with great people. He

25:32wants to enjoy the ride and he wants to

25:33build great companies. And he believes

25:35that equal partnerships build great

25:37companies.

25:37>> I mean, that's that's what we've seen

25:39time and time again. All the great

25:40firms. Yeah. If you're building in

25:41public, sharing insights or staying top

25:43of mind with your network, you need a

25:45newsletter. [music] And if you have a

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26:36beehive.com and use code trailblazers 30

26:38for 30% off your first 3 months. So, I

26:41have a confession. I used to be a

26:42compulsive notetaker. Every meeting I'd

26:45be half listening and half scribbling

26:46and still leaving with gaps on the next

26:48steps. But Granola completely changed

26:50that for me. It's an AI powered notepad

26:52for meetings and it's connected to every

26:53single call on my calendar. So before

26:55each one, it shows me a very

26:56well-ressearched brief with all the

26:58context I need to know. And then during

26:59the call, I'll jot down whatever stands

27:01out. Maybe it's a decision or a quick

27:02thought that I have. And then Granola

27:04handles the rest. It'll transcribe in

27:06the background and turn my rough notes

27:08into clean, structured takeaways the

27:10second we [music] hang up. There's also

27:11no bots joining the calls. it just works

27:13in the background. I use Granola for

27:15several things. So, as an example, if I

27:16finish a meeting with a potential

27:18investor in my fund, I'll ask Granola,

27:20"What could I have done better to get my

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27:34We're actually running Granola on

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27:45So you land in San Francisco, you have

27:47this idea that you want to be in the

27:49game and you want to venture firm to

27:51hire you and obviously Bolt ended up

27:53hiring you. You how did you convince

27:54them to give you a job? I mean I think

27:56there's a lot of people and I'm sure you

27:57see this too in your DMs saying how do I

28:00break into venture? How do I convince

28:02people? Hey maybe I don't know anything

28:04about hardware either but there's this

28:05hardware fund that I think could be

28:07interesting. what how did you actually

28:09get your foot in the door? I'd love to

28:10hear more about that story.

28:12>> So, I did what was obvious to me, which

28:14was to get in the mix and start

28:16providing value

28:17>> and be in person, which I think is a lot

28:18of it, too. You were like right there.

28:19Yeah. So, I mean, I was at the heart of

28:21it. And remember, the the company I

28:24invested in that brought me to San

28:25Francisco, they were a hardware company,

28:27so they knew all the key people. They

28:30were like there was a fund at the time

28:32called Lemnos Labs. It was like the

28:33heart hot hardware fund. And they were

28:36like, "Oh, they do like a Friday

28:38afternoon like pancake thing, you know,

28:41you should go." And so I was there every

28:43Friday. I was there every Friday in the

28:45mix. I didn't have a job. And so um this

28:48hardware company, they had an office in

28:49Soma in like the worst part of Soma. And

28:53I just went and sat on the couch by the

28:56door every day. And literally there was

28:59this guy Jeff who was also sitting on

29:02the couch by the door cuz he didn't have

29:03a place to work. And I was like, "Hey,

29:05Jeff, like what are you up to?" And he

29:09was starting Tempo Automation, which

29:10later exited for a billion dollars. Now,

29:13now he's building like a lights out

29:14circuit board factory. Um, Nimble

29:16Precision, which is in our portfolio. I

29:18met Jeff sitting on that couch and I

29:19brought Bolt the Deal, right? Like

29:22actually, I can't remember if I brought

29:23Bolt the Deal or not, but anyway, I knew

29:24Jeff. So, like I got in the mix and so

29:26when I was talking to them, I was like,

29:28"Oh yeah, like I met this person at the

29:30Lemnos Happy Hour. Like, you should meet

29:32them." Or like, "Oh, have you met Jeff?"

29:33And I think they actually had already

29:34met Jeff, but like, oh, do you know

29:37Jeff?

29:37>> How do you know Jeff? And I'm like, of

29:39course I know Jeff, right? So, I just

29:40got in the mix and I made it seem like,

29:42hey, I'm already doing this. I'm already

29:44in the ecosystem. I'm already sending

29:46you interesting founders. I'm already

29:47connected. And the truth is, like I was

29:51because every day all I was doing was

29:52trying to meet every single interesting

29:54person that I could. And luckily, that

29:58was the network that I had dropped into.

30:01Um, and also like I just want to do a

30:03plug for any of the like young people in

30:05San Francisco. Y'all need to go have

30:06some fun, okay? We weren't just like

30:08having coffee meetings. We were

30:10partying. We were partying together. We

30:12were throwing crazy raves with like

30:14weird pop-up pools that were going until

30:166:00 in the morning in the middle of

30:17this warehouse. We were like shooting

30:18off rockets in the desert. We were

30:20having fun, right? And like being in the

30:23mix and having fun. You connect with

30:25people. It's natural. It's organic. And

30:27like people have got to get out of this

30:29like coffee meeting death march. Like go

30:32have a good time. Go do things that

30:34you're passionate about. And it doesn't

30:35need to be about networking.

30:37Like have fun. And so I think I was also

30:41just living joyfully and connecting with

30:44people and being interested. Um and yeah

30:47and I like you know I flew to Boston. I

30:49was like I want to meet them in person.

30:50I mean it took 3 months right. It was

30:53like 3 months of kind of convincing

30:56them. And Axel wasn't sure, right? Axel,

30:58like my my current partner, he was like,

31:00I don't know. She doesn't really have

31:01the background. She doesn't have an

31:02engineering degree. D.

31:04>> It was a small fund to start.

31:06>> Tiny tiny hard, you know, it's a lot.

31:08>> Exactly. So, it was a big deal. Um, and

31:11they were based in Boston. I was going

31:12to be the first hireer in San Francisco.

31:14But I think the thing that he saw was

31:15like how good I was at networking and

31:18community, and he was like, let's give

31:20it a try. Um, and so yeah, I think

31:23getting in the mix and providing value

31:24are kind of the two the two things that

31:26you can do. Don't ask for advice. Don't

31:30like I mean I actually don't know that I

31:32would advise anyone to like start a

31:34newsletter or start a podcast. Like

31:36maybe now, but I think for me the thing

31:38that I did that really worked was in the

31:40beginning I had no presence. I had no I

31:43was not building I knew a lot about

31:44social but I was not doing that cuz my

31:46focus was fully on the work and I was

31:48like doing deals getting on boards like

31:51just working to deliver value for the

31:52fund and then only later once I had a

31:55track record once I was really running

31:57my own fund and needed to market it then

31:59I started having more of a public

32:00presence but for the first decade I was

32:03just grinding it out heads down um

32:07>> building I did a lot of inerson

32:08community building but I did nothing

32:10online

32:11>> um and I think That's how I built like a

32:13really genuine tight networking network

32:16really. Um I I'm not saying that's what

32:18you need to do, but I think sometimes

32:20people see how maybe Harry Stubbbings or

32:23you know people have built these media

32:24platforms that have turned into funds.

32:26And I I think that that can work, right?

32:29That can definitely work. But I also

32:30think there's a lot to be said for just

32:33working your ass off on the core work,

32:35delivering, doing great deals. And I saw

32:37so many people, especially women, who

32:40were put on the panels and kind of put

32:43out front by the firms, they got turned

32:45and burned and they didn't get enough

32:47deals done. They weren't they were so

32:48focused on the public facing stuff that

32:51they weren't able to like deliver what

32:52they needed to deliver for the fund. And

32:55the truth is you got to do both. So

32:57totally, that's the tricky part of our

32:59lives is just juggling it all, you know.

33:01Um I think cuz I think the the marketing

33:03stuff and the reputation stuff even if

33:05it's not online even if it's offline

33:06like just going to the events you know

33:08being in the mix meeting the Jeffs of

33:10the world like that is in some way you

33:13know marketing yourself building a

33:14reputation it's a personal brand even if

33:16it's not online

33:17>> like you were known as having someone

33:19being someone that was quite connected

33:20in that sphere even if you weren't

33:23online everyone that mattered in that

33:25universe knew who you were that's a

33:26brand

33:26>> and that's the thing the a brand is what

33:28is not what you say about yourself a

33:30brand is what people say about you,

33:32right? Like that's what a brand is.

33:34[laughter] So like I can say what I want

33:35Bun's brand to be or what I want my

33:38brand to be, but that's has nothing to

33:41do with it. The my brand is what you

33:43think about me. Totally. My brand is

33:44what you think about Bun.

33:46>> And by the way, it's both what you say

33:47here on the podcast and then after we

33:49wrap my experience with you in regular

33:51life. You know, it's a combination. It's

33:53not just

33:54>> Was I on time?

33:55>> Right. Right. She was on time,

33:56everybody.

33:57>> I am annoyingly punctual. I hate being

34:00late. I'm like always early. So, um but

34:03but yeah, all of those things like it's

34:05not just what you do, it's how you do

34:06it. Like all of that and I think

34:08especially in this business which is

34:09very small,

34:10>> right? It's a very small business and um

34:15people talk and I care how people show

34:19up. You know, if like you come to a

34:22dinner of mine and you're unkind to

34:25people, you're not coming back.

34:27>> Thousand%. Yeah. That's that's the good

34:30part and the hard part about this

34:31business because it is so small. The

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35:35[music] Okay, so a quick experiment.

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36:48I posted a Tik Tok or I guess I went to

36:50Instagram too about how there's so few

36:51VCs on Instagram and Tik Tok and you

36:54commented like I love our little club

36:55which I thought was really funny because

36:57not only is the VC industry small but

36:59like the ones who make the content

37:01especially on platforms that are not

37:02Twitter it's like insanely small.

37:04There's like less than 10 of us total.

37:07Um so we all know each other

37:08>> and then a lot of fakes.

37:10>> A lot of fakes.

37:10>> Yeah. A lot of people who aren't

37:11actually investing.

37:13>> Correct. Or like also aren't really like

37:14in the mix. you know, maybe they have

37:15like a family office, which is great.

37:17But, um, I want to talk to you a little

37:18bit about content and like this little

37:21club that we have of, let's call it like

37:22less than 10, probably like, let's say,

37:24five to six people that, you know, are

37:26actually investing, writing checks and

37:28are talking about investing, technology,

37:31companies are excited about. Why do you

37:33do it? What gave you the idea to do it?

37:36Talk to me about that cuz it's very

37:38different than how you started, you know

37:39I mean in the beginning like you said

37:40that was not you were very like off the

37:42grid working but now you're very much

37:44public have built a big profile for

37:46yourself so I'd love to hear more

37:48>> honestly I started making content

37:50because I was pissed that I couldn't get

37:52press like I had worked so hard for over

37:56a decade to start this fund we raised a

37:58hundred million debut fund I was so

38:00proud of this and I was so proud of like

38:03the brand the design everything like we

38:06had this great track record like and I

38:08couldn't get anybody to write about it.

38:10I hired a PR firm for a year and got

38:14nothing out of it. And

38:18can I swear? Yes. I was like, "Fuck this

38:20noise." Like, I am going to platform

38:22myself.

38:23>> I was just like, I am done with this. I

38:24am done with the gatekeeping. I am done.

38:26And also, like, who reads Forbes anyway,

38:29you know? Like, you can't like no

38:30everything's behind a payw wall, you

38:31know? Like I was like, this is so

38:33ridiculous. And coming up in the 201s, I

38:36saw the dudes that rode the medium wave

38:40punched well above their weight in terms

38:42of fund size, in terms of deal flow.

38:44Like I saw that um that partnership

38:48between content and platform really

38:51propel a lot of those funds forward. And

38:55I was thinking, okay, where is that edge

38:57today? And I was like, it's short form

38:59video. Gen Z is originating search on

39:01Tik Tok and Instagram and they're really

39:05there's like nobody there really talking

39:07about investing talking about VC so I'm

39:10going to try. Um and so I started I

39:12started only on Tik Tok cuz I was like I

39:14don't know anyone who's on Tik Tok. It's

39:15great. No one will see me. I can like

39:17just try. And I'm like doing get readies

39:19with me in my son's bedroom. Like the

39:21early ones are so cringe. But I was just

39:23like I have to try. No no no. [laughter]

39:26I was like I'm just going to try it. And

39:28I told myself I would do a three-month

39:29experiment. So I really believe in like

39:32you you and I knew you can't just do it

39:34a couple of times. Like I need to create

39:35a process. I need to do it for 3 months.

39:38And I started doing it. And I found out

39:40a couple of things. One, I actually

39:42liked it. Like I found it was easy and

39:45kind of fun for me. I'm quite creative.

39:47And so I was like I it was not hard for

39:48me to think about ideas of things to

39:50talk about or things to do. I like to

39:52chat, right? Like I I like that's easy

39:55for me. And so I found that like, huh,

39:57like this is kind of fun. And I mostly

39:59was letting go of any of the results.

40:02Um, and I just decided to kind of keep

40:06going, keep going. And then I would say

40:08it was about a year in where it was just

40:11very clear that this was now delivering

40:13business results, right? And so then it

40:15was like, okay, we should really invest

40:16in this. And so I've doubled down. It's

40:18been 2 years now. And the last three

40:20investments that I've made, every single

40:22one of them found me on social. So, they

40:24found me on social and they got a warm

40:26intro. Wasn't like a cold DM. One was a

40:27cold DM from like a founder that

40:29previously sold her company for 200

40:31million. She DM'd me on TikTok. Hey, I

40:33sold my previous company for

40:34bootstrapped for 200 million. I'm

40:36thinking about starting my next thing.

40:37Like, do you want to talk? And I was

40:39like, yeah, yeah, I want to talk. I got

40:41on a plane. I flew down to LA, like took

40:43her for lunch, and took about 9 months

40:45for her to decide she really wanted to

40:46do it. Um, but yeah, we've led the

40:48preede. So, and you know, with preede,

40:50it's all about people. It's about

40:51getting there first, having their trust.

40:53And so now it's like a huge piece of our

40:57deal flow. Um, in the early days it

41:00wasn't like in the early days what I was

41:02noticing deal flow wasn't coming through

41:03that, but people were using it like a

41:05resume. They were looking at the content

41:06to understand what do I think? And now

41:09like I was at Cafe Chelsea just

41:11yesterday and a woman who was like an

41:14incredibly impressive resume like

41:15recognized me at Cafe Chelsea and she

41:16was like, "Oh my god, are you Kate

41:17McAndrew? I've like watched all your

41:19content." And I was like, "What?" and

41:20she told me who she was. I was like,

41:21"This is a heavy hitter."

41:23>> I was like, "Oh my god." So, it's in two

41:25years it's gone from get ready with me

41:27in my son's bathroom that are like

41:29really or like my son's bedroom. It's

41:30like very embarrassing. So, in 2 years

41:33it's gone from like very embarrassing

41:34get ready with me like Tik Toks in my

41:36son's bedroom to getting recognized at

41:39Cafe Chelsea by like a very heavyhitting

41:42woman. And so, it's amazing how quickly

41:44that's happened. But, I've I've enjoyed

41:46it. Like, I've just had fun.

41:48>> Yeah. And I think that's the secret,

41:49too. if you're enjoying it, which is

41:50very evident in what you do in the

41:52content, you'll continue to do it and

41:54it'll compound. Like that's the craziest

41:55part. It's like you're only 2 years in.

41:57What happens in the next two years? You

41:58know, how much more can it grow? How

41:59many more deals can you see? That's

42:01really exciting to think about. Yeah.

42:02And I have no idea. And that's also

42:04okay, right? I love that it's not my

42:06business. Like I love that I'm a venture

42:08capitalist and my focus is doing great

42:10deals, providing returns for my LPs and

42:13one of the ways that I'm doing that is

42:15by making content to help drive deal

42:16flow. I'm not a like content creator per

42:19se. I think I'm or I'm on the cusp of

42:22not being one. Like I'm not trying to

42:23monetize it. I'm not like my business

42:25isn't to be a creator. My business is to

42:27be a VC who makes content. And I think

42:30that it's really important for me to

42:32stay in that game, but I'm already

42:33seeing like managers want to manage me

42:35and I'm just like wait like I don't

42:37know, right? So it I've gotten big

42:38enough now where there's this pull to do

42:41I want to be this other thing. So in two

42:42years I actually don't know how it's

42:44going to play out. I know that being a

42:45VC will always be the main thing that

42:47I'm doing, but two years from now I have

42:49no idea. Like I have no idea where it's

42:51going to go, but I enjoy that. Like I

42:52don't need to know. Um, and like I'm not

42:55someone who designs for the end. I'm

42:57someone who lives in the process. And so

42:58like I'm just enjoying the process and

43:01continuing to make like good decisions

43:03along the way hopefully. Yeah, I love

43:05that. I love that. And I think it's I

43:06I'm sort of realizing that, you know,

43:08it's not just the deal side. There's

43:10also I got, you know, DM from a

43:11potential LP for a big check. you know,

43:13there's so many other maybe you speak on

43:15a stage and someone hears you that is

43:16starting a company. So, it's there's a

43:18lot of these like roundabout wins that

43:20even aren't as direct as deal flow um

43:22that can massively help the business.

43:24So, there's a lot of wins there. Um I'd

43:26love to talk to you a little bit about

43:27starting Buun. So, we we sort of jumped

43:29to content, but I want to talk about

43:30that transition from like being at Bold.

43:32You put in your eight plus years, you

43:34worked really hard at this firm, and

43:36then you decided to, you know, start

43:38this new one with a few like friends,

43:40partners. Talk to me about why you did

43:42that and this really unique thesis about

43:45like tech and design. You know, I think

43:47you don't really see the word design in

43:49many thesis. So, talk to me a little bit

43:51about that piece about starting the firm

43:53and the thesis behind it.

43:55>> Well, I think that Bolt had been very

43:58focused on hardware. It's called Bolt.

44:00Okay. And like, you know, the LPs really

44:03wanted it to be very narrowly focused on

44:04hardware and there were kind of two

44:06pieces like hard hardware software and

44:08preede. And what I saw was I didn't

44:11believe that there were enough high

44:14quality preede hardware companies to

44:17build a 35ish, you know, company

44:20portfolio. And the durability of that,

44:23it was just too narrow in my in my

44:26opinion. And so I felt like we were

44:28either going to have to become full

44:29stack like Aroot or an Eclipse and raise

44:31more money and do preede seed, series A,

44:34series B in hardware vertical or

44:37software for hardware. you know, you can

44:38expand that way or go broader and stay

44:41at preede. And I was very clear that I

44:44want I personally wanted to go broader

44:46and stay at preede. And um I was already

44:50really pushing the edges of what was

44:51hardware. Like is Bobby an infant

44:53formula company hardware?

44:55>> There's a product.

44:55>> There's [laughter] a product, right? So

44:57I was a factory.

44:58>> Yeah. We did some great great

45:00investments that are value drivers for

45:02the portfolio, but that weren't really

45:04on thesis. And so I knew that it that I

45:08wanted to start something. I knew that

45:09if I was going to be a GP, I wanted to

45:11be a GP of my own fir my own firm. And I

45:14wanted this LPS to bet on me. I wanted

45:15them to bet on my thesis. And I knew

45:18that I wanted to be preceded specific.

45:19And I wanted to be more generalist like

45:21with areas of concentration or like a

45:23lens like tech and design, but um I just

45:26knew that that was the fund that if I

45:28was going to put my name on it and own

45:29it and build it for 20 years, that

45:31that's what it was going to be. And so

45:33that transition was pretty clear for me.

45:37Um, and I was also, it was a time where

45:38it was like very hip to have female

45:40partners. We're not like in that era

45:41right now, but I was getting lots of DMs

45:43from all the big mega funds where I

45:45could have gone and made a ton of money.

45:47But like that was just never it was just

45:49not me, right? Those were very easy to

45:51say no to, which is interesting because

45:54I was going through a divorce. I had

45:55just had a baby and like I had no backup

45:58plan. So, like I look back now and like

46:00logically speaking, taking a cushy like

46:02multi-million dollar salary would have

46:04been the quote unquote right thing to

46:05do, but I honestly didn't

46:08>> even think of it as an option. Like I

46:10did like that was not in my

46:11consciousness.

46:13That was obviously a no. So, it was

46:14really just this is what this is what

46:17was going to happen. Um,

46:19>> did you know that this firm was going to

46:21be started and you wanted to join it or

46:23was it really like you had the idea like

46:24let's go started like how does cuz it's

46:26so interesting like as a solo GP you

46:28know it was very much like me being like

46:30okay I want to do this thing I'll look

46:32for maybe other partners but no I've

46:33decided I want to go at it alone like

46:35how does it originate do you you know

46:37have this idea and then you you know

46:39ping the people that you want to do with

46:40you is it like a coffee chat between you

46:42and someone else and you're like should

46:43we do this thing like what's the origin

46:45there's no one else in the world I would

46:47start the sperm with no one. It's It's

46:50not like a oh, maybe this reveal. No, if

46:53you don't know, you don't know. And I

46:55say this as a divorce person. Same thing

46:56with marriage. If you think you know,

46:58but you're not sure, you don't know.

47:00Okay? I think same thing with GPS. There

47:02is no one else in the world I would

47:04build this firm with. If I wasn't

47:06building this firm with them, I'd be

47:07like running a dance nonprofit or

47:10something, right? Like these are my

47:11people. And I know that because I worked

47:14with them. I invested with them. I saw

47:16them weather hard times. I saw them ride

47:19success.

47:20I saw them disagree with me. I saw them

47:24um and love me anyway. And like I truly

47:27love my partners. It it is so deep. It

47:31is a familial type of respectful love.

47:36And

47:37it wasn't a recruiting process. It

47:39wasn't even a thought. It was just

47:42obvious. It was just obvious. And we're

47:45also all extremely different. We spike

47:47in different ways, which means there's a

47:49lot of space for mutual respect around

47:52our varied excellence.

47:54>> What's everyone's strengths like across

47:55the board? Who's who's the best at which

47:57thing?

47:58>> So, I'm well, so first of all, I would

48:00say everyone is a very strong general

48:01athlete. Like we can all kind of do

48:04everything, but then we all have

48:05excellence in different dynamics. So,

48:07operationally, we have a very clear

48:09division. Tyler and I run everything. I

48:12call front of house brand marketing. The

48:15collective that we run, we run all of

48:16that out of San Francisco. Matt and Axel

48:19run everything. Finance, ops, back

48:22office with our CFO in Boston. So,

48:25operationally, we have a very clear

48:26split, right? And then functionally,

48:28when it comes to board management,

48:30again, we're all pretty strong general

48:31athletes, but there's probably 10 people

48:35in the world that are as good at product

48:36as Tyler. He was on the core team of

48:38their first iPhone. He, you know, lived

48:41in China half the year, lived in the

48:43design studio at Apple half the year. By

48:44the time he was in his mid20s, he was

48:46running a multi-billion dollar product

48:48line of all of the iPods. So, I mean,

48:51Tyler is a really truly one of the great

48:54product minds of our generation. If I

48:56have a question about product or if

48:58someone wants to dive into product, I'm

48:59pulling him in. Right. I would say

49:02Axel's one of the most financially deep

49:06strategic thinkers when it comes to how

49:08do you build enterprise value. He's seen

49:10zero to billion dollar exits again and

49:13again and again. And so much of what

49:15it's about is the nuance of these really

49:18complex business design questions and

49:22company questions. And so if I'm at a

49:24crossroads and I'm like, "Okay, we're

49:26thinking about designing it this way or

49:28this way." He's got the three questions

49:31I haven't thought of to help us get to

49:33that answer. It's also great to be with

49:35someone who's been through so many M&As,

49:37who's exited public stock so many times.

49:39So like all of these firm management

49:41things that a lot of emer manager hasn't

49:43haven't seen, he's done it dozens of

49:45times. But what I also love is he's

49:47willing to do it differently. So he's

49:49like this is what my experience tells

49:51me. What do you think? What do you see?

49:53Right? So that willingness, that low

49:55ego, that willingness to be wrong, that

49:57willingness to do it a new way, but he

49:59just has this depth of experience and

50:00this joy of true like operate operating.

50:04He's built and sold two companies. Like

50:06that is where he is is incredibly

50:09valuable. Even the nitty-gritty stuff

50:11like reserves analysis, like

50:12>> that's why like the financial piece, you

50:14know, the fun model.

50:15>> He loves a reserves analysis. He's just

50:17like, I've been working on this

50:18spreadsheet and I'm just like, Axel,

50:20bless you. [laughter]

50:21You know, not that I can't do it, but he

50:24loves it. He has joy in it, right? Just

50:27like Tyler has joy in product. I would

50:30say Matt is probably the most like Axel.

50:33He's also like I've I mean, Matt I I

50:37don't think he's ever not dotted an eye

50:39or crossed a tea in his life. Like, and

50:42I think one thing that Axel says about

50:43Matt is the level of rigor that Matt

50:47brings to things is unparalleled. Like

50:50Tyler got him a hat once that says

50:52action items like and so you know he's

50:55amazing. He's amazing as a board member.

50:57He doesn't let you squeak by with 80%.

51:01Like he he is just so good. He also this

51:04is like random but he's the only one of

51:06us that was ever a management consultant

51:08and thank god cuz we have to make a lot

51:09of slide desks [laughter] so you know

51:12those through him. Yeah. Like he's a

51:13great board member and an independent

51:15thinker. all these things that we all

51:16are but like Matt is is that um and I

51:20would say for me like I am strongest

51:21when it comes to creative go to market

51:23marketing branding like that's where I

51:25really thrive. I'm also very well

51:27networked. So like when it comes time

51:29for fundraising, everyone's calling me

51:30and [laughter] you know get the intros

51:32and so that's where I spike and like

51:34again we're all good general athletes

51:37but we have these areas and and markets

51:40you know where we're experts right like

51:41Axel's one of the leading engineering

51:43software investors and builders in the

51:45world. Tyler is one of the leading

51:46hardware people in the world. Like I do

51:47a lot of consumer like we all have these

51:49different areas of expertise and we're

51:51willing to be wrong. So the dealful

51:53conversations are really interesting

51:55because it's like we're all kind of

51:56bringing these perspectives and these

51:57minds together to try and make the best

51:59decision as a firm. We have equal

52:00economics. We have equal decision-m

52:02consensus decision-m so we really do

52:04this as a team sport. And this is why I

52:06say like there's no other team I would

52:07want to be on. Like these are my guys.

52:09Yeah. It's so awesome. It's so special

52:11that you feel that way. I was going to

52:12say like we got to like grab this

52:13snippet of what you just said and like

52:14throw it in your data room for your next

52:16fundra because like that is like the

52:17ultimate like this one's great at this,

52:20this one's great at that. this is like

52:21the foresome that you should invest in.

52:23I mean, I feel like that was like the

52:24perfect advertisement um for your next

52:26race.

52:26>> I hope so. Anyone watching,

52:29>> we'll [laughter] snip it up for you.

52:30We'll snip it up for you. Um I love it

52:32and I'm so excited for you. What are you

52:33most excited to invest in over the next

52:355 to 10 years? Like where are you

52:36spending your time? I know there's like

52:37a splash of content, of course. Um but

52:40what are like the investing themes

52:42you're excited about? And if there's

52:43founders listening to this that are

52:44building in these spaces, um and you

52:46know, their their ears perk up, um tell

52:48them what you're excited about. So over

52:51the next 10 years, who knows, right?

52:53Like the founders will take Yeah, the

52:55founders will take me there, but the

52:56next year, so one area I'm spending a

52:58lot of time in, I talked about I've been

53:00in in hardware investing for 8 years.

53:02I'm very curious about the postphone

53:04era. I don't know how it's going to

53:06happen. I don't know who's going to do

53:08it. I don't know what the form factors

53:09are going to be, but I'm spending a lot

53:11of time looking at kind of two areas of

53:14consumer hardware. One would be the kind

53:16of rise of analog. So think about tin

53:19can phone, think about um like Yato or

53:22Tony's. And I think that's really the

53:24millennial parent buying for the child

53:25where they're realizing the phone isn't

53:27good for the kids and I need

53:28alternatives. But I also think there's

53:29another piece of that that's more

53:31sovereign computing. So Gen Z being

53:33scared of AI, not wanting their data

53:35exposed to AI models and wanting to have

53:38sovereign hardware. I think we had some

53:39early predicates in the crypto space

53:41actually. If you look at like hardware

53:43wallets, like there was some interesting

53:44stuff happening there. I don't know that

53:46crypto is the use case, but there's

53:48something going on for me in these

53:51sovereign devices. Um, and they could be

53:53toys or it could be finance. Like, I

53:56don't know, but there's something there

53:58for me. I'm also curious about kind of

54:00the AI wrapped in plastic. Um, and my

54:03forecast is that will actually be owned

54:05by the core models, right? That it's

54:08going to be anthropic and open AI and,

54:10you know, OpenAI bot.io obviously that

54:13are going to win there just because they

54:16can probably give the devices away for

54:17free and make the money other ways and

54:19it's really hard for a startup to

54:20compete against that. But I do think if

54:22you have this like external software

54:24brain of your whole life, there's some

54:26really interesting like entry points

54:28like maybe it's not a home speaker,

54:29maybe it's a bag charm, right? Like I

54:31don't know what's going to happen there,

54:32but that's a that's a place where I'm

54:34spending a lot of time. I'm trying to

54:35meet as many founders as possible to

54:37kind of get a sense for what what

54:39they're thinking about it. Um, and I

54:41think this will be a really interesting

54:42multigenerational product. I think it's

54:44probably going to be a Gen Z founder

54:45with a great idea and a cracked

54:47manufacturing team that's been doing

54:48this for 20 years. So, that's one area

54:50I'm excited about. Another area where I

54:53think I have a pretty non-conensus

54:54opinion. I don't know if you agree, but

54:56right now, like every VC hates a creator

54:59business, but I think they're wrong. I

55:02think that we're early to the creator

55:03economy. I think VCs mostly think about

55:06the creator economy investments as like

55:08creator tools, link in bio, like

55:10accounting for creators. I don't drop

55:12shipping type thing. Yeah, that's not

55:13it. Like, but there is so much money

55:17flowing from brands into the hands of

55:20the creators cuz creators have

55:21distribution. Distribution is valuable.

55:24So, the whole Yeah. like the companies

55:26that figure out how to be the platform

55:30for or to somehow monetize the desire

55:34people's desire business's desire for

55:36distribution are going to win. Shop my I

55:39think is the earliest big winner

55:40crushing it. Yeah, they're crushing it,

55:42but they're really focused on affiliate

55:43commerce and that's a narrow set of the

55:46distribution world, right, for money, so

55:49it gives them a lot of opportunity.

55:50Yeah.

55:50>> Absolutely. And so I don't think ShopMai

55:53is going to be the last. I think it's

55:54going to be the first. And so that's a

55:56space where I'm actually actively making

55:57investments and everybody hates them.

55:59VCs hate them. So the thing I have to

56:01figure out is like who has the juice to

56:03build something big? Who is going to be

56:04able to fund raise for it? What are the

56:06big ideas? And so that's a space where I

56:09think I have an edge because I think I

56:10see it in a different way, much like you

56:12do, I'm sure, than other investors. And

56:15it's a pretty non-conensive opinion. So

56:16the valuations are low, which is nice.

56:18Yeah, it's nice. But like to your point,

56:20it's this balance of like coming in low,

56:21but then making sure you're finding the

56:23founder that can sell the story so that

56:25one of the big dogs will like take a

56:26swing because that's like so much of our

56:28business is like you want to be

56:29non-conensus enough where it's like, you

56:31know, you're going to make money at it.

56:32it's a low price and it's a really

56:34interesting idea that no one's talking

56:35about, but then you also need them to

56:36have a, you know, solid runway long

56:38future ahead. And so, um, I have a lot

56:41of thoughts on everything you just said.

56:42Um, I think the first thing is I love

56:44your hardware and like product lens to a

56:47lot of our industry. I think people also

56:49don't make those investments enough.

56:50There's this like physical AI wave right

56:52now, but um, you sort of have this like

56:54consumer spin to it, which is like

56:55really refreshing cuz most deep tech

56:57people are like, "Give me a circuit

56:59board. I want to be nerdy about it."

57:01They don't understand consumer. There's

57:03very few people that understand hardware

57:04and consumer. And that's where I think

57:06yeah, like you really shine because you

57:08like have the chops. A lot of people

57:09don't. It's just like novel. Like they

57:11bought their kid a tin can, but they

57:12don't really understand the economics

57:13behind it. Um, which is really cool. And

57:15then this other thing I wanted to say

57:16was your comment about creator. Like

57:17everyone talks about lifestyle creators.

57:19They think of like the Alex Earles of

57:21the world, but there's these like

57:22knowledge creators. Like even like you

57:23and I like we aren't we're not lifestyle

57:25creators. like we're talking about our

57:27jobs and our number one job is the job

57:29of making money for our LPS and then the

57:31side thing is like oh yeah like here's a

57:33sneak at our life you know so I think

57:34that there's something really

57:35interesting there about like how

57:36creators are evolving and it's going

57:38from sort of being like really cute and

57:40talking about getting your matcha which

57:42is I love that and that's great too but

57:44also maybe a little bit more about like

57:46the work itself and creating being more

57:48of a secondary task versus the primary

57:50task

57:50>> yeah the wave I'm most interested is

57:52like multi-hyphenate knowledge creators

57:55that's like the wave that I think is

57:57underserved right now and I think

57:59they're going to bring on a vast amount

58:01of investment. If you think about the um

58:05value of a makeup brand versus let's say

58:08financial services, there are massive

58:11markets that are going to try to figure

58:13out how to advertise through creators.

58:15They're actively trying right now and

58:16they don't know how. That's an

58:18opportunity.

58:19>> A thousand%. And I feel like you and I

58:20are like living proof of that cuz we

58:21probably get DMs. They do DM me and I'm

58:23like, "No, I'm not going to make a post

58:25about your weird thing for 20 grand."

58:27Like, it's just weird. Like, and not

58:29because I mean, sure, 20 grand is nice,

58:30but like

58:31>> I have a job, you know? This isn't my

58:33job. And

58:33>> there has to be a better route. There

58:34has to be a better route.

58:35>> Totally.

58:36>> Um, amazing. So, here's a problem I hear

58:38constantly from operators. The data

58:40exists. The answers are somewhere in

58:42there, but getting to them, actually

58:44pulling a useful insight without bugging

58:46the data team or learning SQL, takes way

58:48too long or just does not happen.

58:49[music] Hex solves that. Hex is an AI

58:52analytics platform where anyone on your

58:54team can ask data questions in plain

58:56English and get real answers backed by

58:58your actual business context. [music] No

59:00SQL required. And the best part is that

59:02Hex shows you exactly how its data

59:04agents think. So you can see where the

59:05logic comes from and trust the output.

59:07[music] The more your team uses it, the

59:08smarter it gets. From seedstage founders

59:11running lean to larger orgs dealing with

59:12serious data complexity, Hex is built to

59:15scale with you. It's gamechanging for

59:16people like me who want to understand

59:18what's going on under the hood. But we

59:19are not the data experts. It's funny,

59:21too, because I feel like every time I

59:22look over my operator friend's

59:24shoulders, whether they're in product or

59:26marketing or ops, they often have a Hex

59:28dashboard pulled up. It's [music] a

59:29great tool. Trailblazers listeners get

59:31an exclusive 30-day free trial at

59:32hex.ai/trailblazers.

59:34Well, I do I could ask you a million

59:36more questions, but I want to get to our

59:37lightning round.

59:37>> Okay, let's do it.

59:38>> Um, I'm ready.

59:39>> Okay. Trailblazer trade-offs is what we

59:40call it. Okay, so give me just the first

59:41answer that comes to mind. Okay.

59:43>> A book in hand or a podcast in ears?

59:45>> Book in hand. any favorites besides A

59:48Goddess Guide to Branding. Shout out

59:49again. Uh I just picked up a fabulous

59:51poetry book and a poetry reading and I

59:53can't remember the name of it, but I

59:54read a lot of poetry. Um I don't have a

59:55lot of time, but I love reading poetry

59:57on the page. I often have a poetry book

59:58with me. Can read it between things

1:00:00before bed. So I'm a big poetry reader.

1:00:02>> I love it. I see like people would never

1:00:04guess the VCs read poetry, you know.

1:00:05They they

1:00:06>> they should more should read more

1:00:08poetry. Yeah.

1:00:08>> Yeah.

1:00:09>> I agree. [laughter and gasps]

1:00:10Higher slow or fire?

1:00:11>> Higher slow.

1:00:13>> Okay. Um, I would say we have an

1:00:15incredible new member of our team. She

1:00:17was my intern for a year and a half and

1:00:20I in that year and a half not only got

1:00:22to see her work ethic, the quality that

1:00:25she put out, but like how she meshed

1:00:27with the team, like her style and we're

1:00:30a flow-based team. We're not like a

1:00:32here's the calendar, here's the goals,

1:00:34like we're very much about going where

1:00:35the energy is. And she was able to move

1:00:37with the team in that way. And so by

1:00:40working with her in an intern capacity

1:00:42for a year and a half, we got the

1:00:44opportunity to really like know each

1:00:46other outside of the output, but in the

1:00:49process and like that matters a lot to

1:00:51me, especially in a small company,

1:00:52right? Adding one person is like a huge

1:00:54percent change. And so at least for us,

1:00:57I'm now a believer in higher slow. Yeah.

1:00:59And even if it's not like a full-blown

1:01:00internship, like the people that can do

1:01:02like the weekends or the week nights

1:01:03with you for a while just to test it

1:01:05out. It's always a good idea.

1:01:06>> Well, literally she would like come to

1:01:07my house. She was so she was doing

1:01:09content for us and she would come to my

1:01:11house and sit in my son's bedroom with

1:01:12me or like go for a walk with me and it

1:01:14was I felt like she also just knew me

1:01:16and knew my life and was and was willing

1:01:18to kind of fit into it which is what I

1:01:20needed being as busy as I am as a mom as

1:01:23an investor all of that stuff. I needed

1:01:25someone who could kind of hang with all

1:01:27of me. Not someone who was like I have

1:01:29these three goals and you need to

1:01:31deliver them for me and d right but

1:01:32really just be with us in the process.

1:01:34and she proved that she could do that

1:01:36and it's been the best working

1:01:37relationship I've I've had really in a

1:01:39long time.

1:01:40>> That's awesome. I love hearing that. 10

1:01:42small wins or one big moonshot.

1:01:45>> I think it depends on personal or

1:01:48professional. I actually think the 10

1:01:49small wins get you to the moonshot

1:01:51because I I'm I'm not a believer in like

1:01:55I want this big goal and I'm going to

1:01:57design this whole process to get there.

1:01:58I'm a big believer in like intuitively

1:02:01feeling it out and kind of going where

1:02:04the energy is. And so that that's often

1:02:06about like what's the next best choice?

1:02:08How does this feel over here? Like my

1:02:11belief is that if you do that in a way

1:02:13that is brave, you ultimately will get

1:02:16to the moonshot. Um economically of

1:02:19course you're looking for all moonshots,

1:02:21right? Like you want everything to be

1:02:22that big returning so that you know

1:02:24every investment we make has to be able

1:02:26to return the whole fund. But from a

1:02:29process perspective on how to get there,

1:02:30I don't think you go moonshot hunting. I

1:02:32think you go looking for excellence and

1:02:34that's through these little cycles.

1:02:37>> I love that. I love that cuz it doesn't

1:02:38happen overnight. I mean, moonshots,

1:02:40they look like they're overnight, but

1:02:41they're very much minimum, right? So,

1:02:43it's like all moonshots are actually

1:02:46diligent, small choices day in and day

1:02:48out.

1:02:48>> Yeah, I love that reframe. Being early

1:02:51or being right.

1:02:53>> Being early or being right. I mean, I've

1:02:55chosen to be early. Um because I think

1:02:58if you're right but late it's like not

1:03:00that interesting to me. Uh I want to be

1:03:03early and right and so but if you want

1:03:05to be early and right you can't start

1:03:07with just being right because you can

1:03:09never be early right. So I don't really

1:03:11care about failure. I think this is the

1:03:13difference between venture and PE. Like

1:03:15PE cares about failure rate. Venture

1:03:16doesn't. Um I care about the opportunity

1:03:19for success. I'm very the glass is

1:03:21always half full with me. It's the

1:03:23optimism business.

1:03:23>> Yeah. I'm I'm and I just it's who I am.

1:03:26Right. That's just kind of how I how I

1:03:28am naturally. And so I always want to be

1:03:31early. I always want to be in the dream

1:03:32state. I always want to be with

1:03:34possibility. And I'm okay if it doesn't

1:03:35work. Like I don't think that's um a bad

1:03:38thing, right? To take to take shots and

1:03:40for them to fail. I'm very comfortable

1:03:41with that.

1:03:42>> Yeah. I mean, it reminds me a little bit

1:03:43too of like you posting on TikTok as

1:03:45sort of like I'll just try it. It's

1:03:46early. No one else is here. Could be

1:03:48right, could be wrong, but it's

1:03:49definitely early for sure.

1:03:50>> Yeah. What's the best teacher, a mentor,

1:03:52or a mistake?

1:03:55>> Hm.

1:03:57Um, I don't really think about mistakes.

1:03:59So, mentor, um, I'm I'm all about where

1:04:03are you going? Like forwardlooking,

1:04:05where are you going? And it's been very

1:04:08powerful for me to see how people ahead

1:04:11of me show up. Um, but I and I think

1:04:15mentorship is is really a a two-way

1:04:18street. Um, it's a dialogue, it's

1:04:20collaboration, and all of that is very

1:04:22productive for me. mistakes are like

1:04:25I've learned from my mistakes but um

1:04:29nowhere as much as I've learned from

1:04:31mentors. I I just move on like I just

1:04:33let go and move on, keep going. It's

1:04:35very refreshing. I think a lot of people

1:04:37dwell and that's what holds them back

1:04:38from doing great things.

1:04:40>> Yeah. Yeah.

1:04:40>> Totally.

1:04:41>> Yeah. Uh is the future of AI abundance

1:04:44or chaos?

1:04:46[laughter]

1:04:47>> These are loaded questions. I didn't

1:04:48warn you.

1:04:49>> Yeah. [gasps] Um I mean chaos, I think.

1:04:53Uh, but I don't I don't think that chaos

1:04:54and abundance are diame diametrically

1:04:56opposed. Okay.

1:04:58>> Um, I think it'll depend a lot on who's

1:05:00in power. And if we continue to have the

1:05:01people in power in power with AI, we're

1:05:04in trouble. Um, and I think we are in

1:05:07trouble. So abundance is the feminine

1:05:10framing, right? the abundance mentality,

1:05:12the idea that there isn't a finite pie,

1:05:15that there's more than enough to go

1:05:16around, that that if I have things to

1:05:19share, I I want a crowded table of

1:05:22people to share them with me. That's the

1:05:24abundance mentality. You can have the

1:05:25exact same amount of resources and have

1:05:28abundance or chaos. Chaos is a scarcity

1:05:31mindset. Chaos is the masculine. And I

1:05:33don't mean men, I mean the masculine.

1:05:35It's like only one can win. We we

1:05:39there's only so much pie to go around.

1:05:41And ironically, we have people in power

1:05:44around AI who are trying to build an

1:05:49abundant technological world, but

1:05:51they're doing it from a political and

1:05:54personal disposition that is chaotic and

1:05:56scarcitydriven.

1:05:58And they don't seem to care about the

1:06:01people who lose their jobs and die in

1:06:03the process.

1:06:04And so I'm very worried about where we

1:06:07are at culturally and politically. Not

1:06:09because of AI specifically, but because

1:06:12of the power structure that exists

1:06:14within international politics, within

1:06:17America, and within what appears to be

1:06:19an emerging oligarchy. And I think

1:06:21people who don't believe that are not

1:06:22paying attention or truly don't care.

1:06:25It's going to be an interesting decade.

1:06:26That's for sure.

1:06:27>> It is.

1:06:27>> There's a lot unfolding. And I think

1:06:29there's a lot of there's a lot of I

1:06:30won't even use abundance or chaos. just

1:06:32to say like noise and energy around so

1:06:35many changes, political changes,

1:06:37religious changes, technological

1:06:39changes. So, it's a very interesting

1:06:42time. It's we have to make sure we have

1:06:43the right mindset around it. But you're

1:06:45right, there's definitely there's a lot

1:06:46of energy is how I usually describe it.

1:06:48Yeah. And I think that like you can meet

1:06:52chaos with abundance,

1:06:55right? And that looks like community

1:06:57care. It looks like feeding your

1:06:59neighbor. It looks like growing a

1:07:01garden. It looks like all like this kind

1:07:05of abundance way of moving through the

1:07:08world even in a context of scarcity and

1:07:10competition. I don't think that you meet

1:07:14chaos by saying, "Oh, well, I'll just

1:07:16get my bag and win, right?" Which I

1:07:18think is a lot of where that fear comes

1:07:20from. I think it needs to be I lean into

1:07:22my community and care. And I love this

1:07:24idea of like when all the outside world,

1:07:27international, national, whatever, feels

1:07:29crazy, you can focus on the local. It's

1:07:31the garden, it's the neighbor, it's the

1:07:34friends, it's the, you know, the way you

1:07:36show up. Even just here, that's the

1:07:39stuff that we also have the control

1:07:40over. And that's a good reminder.

1:07:41>> Really predominantly offline.

1:07:43>> Get offline. Like check on your actual

1:07:46neighbor, knock on their door, bring

1:07:48them a pie. Like this is the time to do

1:07:51that. I actually hosted a neighborhood

1:07:52resiliency potluck last month and just

1:07:55like put a note on the neighbors doors.

1:07:57I did it at our office. It was a

1:07:58potluck. Everybody came and they were so

1:08:01excited to meet their neighbors and I

1:08:02became friends with my neighbors.

1:08:04They're like elder lesbians of Vernal

1:08:06Heights. They're so nice. And now my son

1:08:07has a relationship with them. I kind of

1:08:09knew them but I didn't know the across

1:08:11the street neighbors. They introduced me

1:08:12to them. Like they're watering my plants

1:08:15right now. So like this kind of

1:08:17community resilience we know that that

1:08:20is what predicts safety and resilience

1:08:24in natural disasters. I think that

1:08:26whether that natural disaster is a fire

1:08:28or a flood or

1:08:31a career apocalypse like that community

1:08:35resilience I think is going to be what

1:08:37carries us through and a willingness to

1:08:39share and care for your neighbor

1:08:40>> and not forgetting what makes us all

1:08:42human. I think that's so much of it.

1:08:43We're all hyper obsessed with

1:08:44technology, but at the end of the day,

1:08:46since the dawn of time, we've been

1:08:47humans talking to humans and there are

1:08:49very basic needs that science can tell

1:08:51us, you know, uh connection when it's

1:08:53like more more powerful not having

1:08:55connection. Loneliness is is worse than

1:08:57smoking or something like that, you

1:08:58know. So, it's uh it's important to

1:08:59remember that. I love that.

1:09:01>> Um okay, four more. Killer product or

1:09:03loyal niche audience?

1:09:05>> Oh, killer product.

1:09:07>> Okay.

1:09:07>> Yeah, I think killer products find loyal

1:09:09niche audiences and then they grow.

1:09:10Loyal niche audiences without killer

1:09:12products tend to only stay within that

1:09:14niche. And I'm building billion dollar

1:09:16companies here. So, we got to grow,

1:09:18baby. Love it. VC or bootstrapping? Um,

1:09:22I'm going to go with seedstropping,

1:09:23which is my favorite right in the

1:09:25middle. I love, especially now, like you

1:09:29can really do so much with a lean team

1:09:32because of AI. And so I think there's

1:09:34always going to be the opportunity to

1:09:36raise, you know, or invest 1 to 2

1:09:38million into great people building

1:09:39companies, but they're not necessarily

1:09:41going to need the same amount of

1:09:42downstream capital and we don't get

1:09:44diluted.

1:09:44>> Yeah. Exactly. So I think it's good for

1:09:46founders. I think it's good for early

1:09:47stage investors, but you have to make

1:09:49sure that you know you're um okay to

1:09:52like value your own deals and you know

1:09:54just like it's it's a different shape of

1:09:55thing and you're not going to get the

1:09:57markups and all that stuff. But um I

1:09:59think that there's really

1:10:02one of the things that's a little bit of

1:10:03an issue right now is we have this kind

1:10:05of glut of capital partnered with

1:10:08technology that should make us more lean

1:10:10and they're a little bit at odds right

1:10:12now where people are like building these

1:10:14war chests but it's not really sure that

1:10:16they need them. Honestly, a lot of it's

1:10:17going to compute so that's a problem. I

1:10:19I do think that like I'm very interested

1:10:22in lean operating styles that um that

1:10:27really serve like profitable businesses,

1:10:30businesses that throw off a lot of cash

1:10:32that also have big market opportunities

1:10:33where I don't get diluted.

1:10:35>> So yeah. Yeah, it's crazy. I mean,

1:10:37Bobb's a good example of this. Not to

1:10:39like bring it all the way back, but like

1:10:40you know, one of my an investor friend

1:10:42of mine who was early there was talking

1:10:43about just like the the dilution element

1:10:45and how it's actually helped them so

1:10:47much in their portfolio, how they

1:10:48haven't had to raise as much um over

1:10:50time.

1:10:51>> Okay. Never post on social media again

1:10:53or never fund raise another dollar

1:10:55again.

1:10:55>> Never post on social media again.

1:10:57>> Okay. Tell me why. I love what I do. I

1:10:59love my job. Like that's primary.

1:11:01>> Yeah, totally. Absolutely. Like I love

1:11:03being an investor. It's I feel like how

1:11:05I'm making an impact in the world. I

1:11:07deploying capital to people to build

1:11:10their dreams is like the reason I'm

1:11:12here. You know that and like stewarding

1:11:14the spirit of my son. Those are the

1:11:16reasons I'm here. So social media, take

1:11:18it or leave it, but like I love what I

1:11:20do. Easy. Love it. Last question. Is AI

1:11:23overhyped or underhyped?

1:11:25>> I think it's a bubble. I think it's

1:11:26overvalued. Um I don't know that the

1:11:28hype is wrong, but I think the

1:11:29valuations are wrong. Um hund00 million

1:11:33seed rounds, that's insane, right? It's

1:11:35just illogical. Illogical behavior is

1:11:39what creates bubble behavior. So the AI

1:11:41technology wave is real. I think the

1:11:42technology promise is real. Um and I

1:11:45think it is overvalued.

1:11:47>> Absolutely. Kate, thanks for being here.

1:11:49>> This is so fun.

1:11:51>> Thanks so much for listening to the

1:11:52Trailblazers podcast. If you found this

1:11:54conversation valuable, please follow

1:11:56along on socials, share with a friend,

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1:12:06To learn more about what we're doing,

1:12:07you can visit trailblazerspod.com

1:12:09or my venture capital firm,

1:12:11parkrangerscap.com, or just follow along

1:12:13on socials at Erica_winganger. [music]

1:12:15Until next time, keep trailblazing.