Full transcript
0:00What do you think is wrong with Britain
0:01today?
0:02>> It's our inability to create wealth.
0:05Who's fighting for me? We we're just a
0:08piggy bank now for Burnham. Taxes are
0:10going to go up. What about um migration?
0:13I want really clever people who are
0:16going to create work come to my country.
0:18And I can't stand is every day we say
0:22hundreds coming across a boat being
0:24ushered into our ports in Dova. We have
0:27got to control our borders. It will
0:30start a war. Well, what is the biggest
0:32issue in Britain right now that no one
0:34is talking about?
0:37[music]
0:42Hello, welcome to today's very special
0:44Daily Espresso. I'm JJ J and first of
0:46all, a big thank you to the Pure God
0:47Company for sponsoring this episode. But
0:48more importantly, I'm joined by one of
0:50the most influential newspaper editors
0:53of the modern era. It is Kelvin
0:55McKenzie. Thanks for coming in, mate.
0:57>> Oh, no. Thank you very much for that
0:59introduction. There are other words that
1:01are sometimes [laughter] used when my
1:02name is mentioned. And there are parts
1:04of the country which will be at the
1:06moment uh gritting their teeth as they
1:10as they turn off the uh as they turn off
1:12the screen. Right. [laughter]
1:14Carry on.
1:17>> My first question. What do you think is
1:19wrong with Britain today?
1:21Well, the main thing is rotten wrong is
1:25not necessarily the politics,
1:27>> but it's our inability to create wealth.
1:32>> I don't I don't have any objections to
1:35people feeling very very upset about
1:37where they are in their lives because
1:39they can't make enough money. They get
1:41given a a glossy view if they spend
1:44their times online of what the world
1:46looks like and then they say, "Well,
1:48actually, you know, everything's going
1:50up in price. What's happening?" The
1:52truth is, we aren't clever enough. We're
1:54in a competitive world and so um very
1:59cleverly and much harder working, uh
2:02Asia is eating our lunch. Okay, they are
2:05they are flat out there. They want the
2:08money. They want the western way of
2:10world and they want to earn it.
2:12>> Now over here we have a different view.
2:15We view the state as supplying the kind
2:21of safety net and the jobs. Completely
2:24wrong. Absolutely. We we need teachers.
2:27We need this. We need that. I totally
2:29get all that. Okay. But what we really
2:32need is we need clever entrepreneurial
2:35driven people who don't believe in work
2:38life balance right these [laughter] mad
2:40people right who actually would rather
2:43be at work uh you know making their
2:46factories bigger or having their ideas
2:48come come to the four that's who we need
2:50we should be praising them we should we
2:53should you know forget about I don't
2:55want to be cruel about it but it's very
2:57nice the uh the the lollipop ladies and
2:59the like and getting getting CBES and
3:02MBEs and all the rest of it. Very nice
3:04thing to do. Perhaps people feel good
3:05about it. But what we should be doing is
3:07taking smallcale entrepreneurs and
3:09giving them all the lording in life. So
3:13for instance, I have a very small
3:15business and if my business track record
3:17is anything to go by likely to get
3:19smaller [laughter] in the United States.
3:22Okay. Okay. So me and my business
3:24partner went into the local bank. Uh
3:26this is in South Carolina. Just walked
3:29in there and we said, "We'd like to uh
3:31we'd like to set up an account and we
3:33want to borrow some money, right?" And
3:35the lady said, "Oh yeah, you should go
3:36around the corner and see Tom, the chief
3:39loan officer." So we go around there and
3:40says, "Hello, Tom. How are you, mate?"
3:42And he said, "Sit down, listen to our
3:44story." And said, "Yeah, everything's
3:46possible here." Right. Okay. The
3:48Southern Bank, by the way, if they want
3:50a plug. And um and uh in the UK, if you
3:55went into your local Nat West, and I
3:58urge you while you watch this, just
4:00simply turn off the screen, go walk down
4:02the high street, go into your local Nat
4:04West, your local Barclays, your local
4:07HSBC, and say, "I'd like to meet the
4:09chief loan officer." Two things would
4:11happen. One, they would tell you to piss
4:13off, right? Two, they would think there
4:16was an element of satire in [laughter]
4:18all this. Are you joking with us? we're
4:20not lending you any money. We don't even
4:22know you. You haven't got an account. It
4:24was completely the opposite. Okay.
4:26>> And so they have banks over there that
4:29are like corner stores. We have corner
4:31shops over here.
4:33>> I want to see I want to see more people
4:36taking a risk. I want to see more people
4:38going bust. I want to see more people
4:39taking a chance. And the great thing
4:41about AI is if you start a very little
4:43business, you you're operating AI.
4:46Anybody on chat or call will tell you
4:48this, right? you are a much bigger
4:50company as one person now, right? I can
4:53absolutely see major companies letting
4:55thousands go. But so we need lots of
4:58little people. That's what I want to
5:00see. So dealing with your other issue,
5:03which is why is the country not right?
5:07First of all, we need secure borders.
5:09Right? I I believe in secure borders.
5:13Okay? That's why I drift towards reform.
5:16>> Mhm.
5:16>> Right. If somebody if they if if the
5:18tries would say we're going to secure
5:20the borders, I would say fine. Yeah. I'd
5:23say fine.
5:24>> Uh they won't quite say that because it
5:27will involve probably us going to war
5:28with France, which is probably one of
5:31the more enjoyable things we can
5:33probably be doing over the next 10
5:34years, [laughter] right? And um you all
5:37you you tend not to like your neighbors.
5:39And in this case, they are not doing
5:41enough. Okay. They're saying actually we
5:45don't want these people here either. So
5:47on your way. Okay.
5:49>> So we've got that. So we're not
5:52producing wealth but we are producing
5:54costs.
5:54>> Mhm. [snorts]
5:55>> There's only one thing that can happen
5:57there. Taxes go up. And if taxes go up,
5:59everybody feels very very upset. They
6:02say I'm not earning enough money. Have
6:04you seen my gas bill? Have you seen my
6:06water bill? I mean water will be the new
6:08gold over the next year,
6:09>> next few years, won't it? They say they
6:12say well these prices going up they say
6:13they're rents right but one of the
6:15aspects of rents is that there's no
6:17supply and why is there no supply
6:20because the government has decided that
6:22actually various controls and taxes mean
6:25it doesn't pay you to go into the
6:26landlord business there's less
6:28landlords. What happens when you have
6:30when you have the same demand but less
6:32supply? Oh yes, rents go up, [laughter]
6:35right? But nobody cares about that. This
6:38this is this is the this is the problem.
6:40But so uh I feel sorry but okay I
6:43commute. Do you commute?
6:44>> Yeah I commute. Okay.
6:46>> Honestly
6:48a nightmare. So at the end of the day
6:50you go to get your get your train and my
6:53train go from Waterl to Wbridge. Delay
6:56delay delay.
6:57>> Yeah.
6:58>> And you you sit on the train nobody
7:00tells you anything. It is a nightmare.
7:02And at the end of the day you start to
7:05begin to dislike your own country. But
7:08but why is that? I don't feel I in a I
7:11definitely don't feel British.
7:13>> Really?
7:13>> I definitely don't feel British. I feel
7:16southern English.
7:18>> Huh.
7:18>> Right. So I understand why Burnham says,
7:23"Look, I was in York for the racist last
7:25week."
7:25>> Yeah.
7:26>> For the racists.
7:27>> For the races. [laughter]
7:29>> Oh, these are for the racists.
7:31>> I think a lot of those in York,
7:33>> right? [laughter] So it so for the evil.
7:36>> Okay. So you go to York and you see up
7:39there um I don't know uh Harriut Leeds
7:44Middlesbrough
7:46>> uh Liverpool wherever okay
7:48>> you
7:50come down here and you go to Waterloo
7:52you see Basing Stoke woking these other
7:54places
7:55>> so Burnham is right to say I am
7:59representing the north nobody has
8:01represented it have you ever been to
8:03Huddersfield
8:04>> no
8:04>> okay it's absolely Absolute shocker.
8:08There are terrible towns with great
8:10names and great football teams
8:13>> that are in the most shocking shocking
8:16conditions.
8:17>> Okay, here we are. Where are we? Are we
8:19allowed to say where we are?
8:20>> We can say we're in London.
8:21>> Okay, we're in London. Okay.
8:24London does not have Huddersfield at the
8:27heart of it.
8:28>> People So there are So Bernham is is
8:32quite clever. I think he's I think he's
8:34making a bet for the next election that
8:36he turns around to northerns and says,
8:38"Well, look, it may not be great, but at
8:40least I believe in you." Right. Right.
8:42So, so actually I believe in southern
8:44England. I've always I've lived here all
8:46my life, you know, whether I was in
8:47[clears throat] Campwell or, you know,
8:49or Craford or various other parts of the
8:52South, right? So, who's fighting for me?
8:56Who who gives us stuff about who who
8:58gives the stuff about, you know, the
9:00southern England, right? We we're just a
9:03piggy bank now for Burnham. That will
9:06affect him at the elections. But
9:08actually, I think what he's doing is
9:09quite smart.
9:10>> Okay, real talk for just a second. Think
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9:54you. Right. So it surprises me that you
9:57as a Tory, you are a natural Tory who
9:58drifts towards reform, but you think
10:00Burnham is actually doing the right
10:01thing
10:02>> uh for him.
10:04>> Okay. I think Burnham is doing the right
10:06thing for the Labor Party, right? That
10:08they're appealing to people who um uh
10:12kind of I I have no idea what it must be
10:16like to live in Huddersfield to be fair.
10:18Okay. Uh, nor a te by the way since I
10:21see you paid 1,500 quid for a suit
10:23[laughter] which was basically having
10:25seen Huddersfield ice street you could
10:26buy it all for 1,500 quid. [laughter] So
10:29so uh by the way you you won't find any
10:31objections from the people of
10:32Huddersfield about that way. They
10:34totally accept they totally accept. What
10:36I objected to was he said oh we we want
10:39to shut down the vape shops and bookies.
10:42There's nothing wrong with being a
10:43nothing wrong with going for a bet. Do
10:45you know what the average bet is? The
10:46average bet is four quid. Right. Give us
10:49a break. You can't even Right. Where I
10:51am right now, you couldn't buy coffee
10:53for four quid. True. Give us a break.
10:55What are you going to start
10:56[clears throat] doing? Shut shut down
10:57coffee shops as [laughter] well. Get
10:59real, Burnham.
11:00>> Right.
11:01>> Well, what about um migration? I feel
11:04like most people
11:05>> Yeah.
11:06>> are most annoyed about that and and that
11:08is the thing that's get sorted first.
11:09>> I think that Yes, you're right. I want
11:12secure borders, right? I I want really
11:18clever people who are going to create
11:20work come to come to my country. Okay.
11:24>> And that means we have to have some kind
11:27of way of saying what skills have you
11:30got? Do we need them? And uh what are
11:33you going to be paid for it? And then
11:35they go on a visa,
11:37>> right? They do what they do in the
11:38Middle East. You go on a visa. Yeah. And
11:41if you don't if you don't get yourself
11:42into trouble and whatever over time
11:46definitely you can become a UK citizen
11:48101%. What I don't want and I can't
11:52stand is every day
11:55we say hundreds coming across a boat
11:58being ushered into our ports in do a
12:01load of young men uh with probably no
12:05skills. I'm not sure. I'm sure they've
12:06got some ambitions just coming in
12:08causing us that you know that you're
12:11queuing your your doctor's surgery is
12:14through the roof your kids your kids
12:16can't get into the school they want to
12:17get into because the because there's a
12:19percentage coming from uh other families
12:21from outside a whole series of costs I
12:24say see the I see actually I read it
12:26this morning it the cost of housing um
12:29is 15 billion right
12:32>> we haven't got 15 billion it's quite
12:34clear we are borrowing every day to
12:36exist.
12:37>> Yeah,
12:37>> that has to end.
12:39>> Burnham actually hinted yesterday taxes
12:42are going to go up. They're already at
12:44records. I don't blame everything on
12:47migration. I don't. Right. We don't work
12:50hard enough. All these idiots talking
12:52about work life balance. How do you
12:54think people like, oh, how do you think
12:55that people like Murdoch did it? Right.
12:58Oh, Murdo, uh, you know, work life
13:00balance. I must remember to go home and
13:02watch watch the racing. and I'm going
13:03out to dinner with some friends tonight.
13:05Right. As Murdoch said to me, I haven't
13:06got any friends. Right. [laughter]
13:08Right. He said, I don't want any
13:09friends. Right. I want to focus on my
13:12business. Right. Mind you, he didn't
13:13even have friends in his own family, did
13:15he? I mean, he's suing the ass off them.
13:17[laughter]
13:18What a fantastic thing is that he's
13:20sitting next to his lawyer and he's got
13:22his he's got his son James in the
13:24witness box. He's writing letters. Ask
13:26him that. [laughter]
13:29I might hate you. Anyway, uh I think so
13:33I um so I we've got to we have got to
13:37control our borders
13:40>> and actually I would put it right up
13:42there with uh defending the realm.
13:45Right.
13:46>> Okay.
13:46>> We we talk about spending money on
13:48defense. Yeah. We have to do something
13:52to actually stop people believing they
13:54can just come to our country. when uh
13:57Trump faced that issue, right, there
14:00were literally tens of thousands coming
14:01up through South America, middle, middle
14:04South America. They come out and he
14:06said, right, this is what we're going to
14:07do. And boom, they all stopped.
14:09>> Mhm.
14:09>> We have to say to the French, don't give
14:11us all that old blah. There's 22 miles
14:14of water. They came to your country. I
14:16don't care whether they want to come
14:17here or not. That was a safe place.
14:19You're going to be that's your problem.
14:21And the reason that will help is because
14:23if you carry on watching it all the way
14:25back to where they where the migrants
14:28first came in, right, they won't bother,
14:30right? Because other countries will say,
14:32"Well, we don't want them." Germany says
14:33we don't want them. Italy says we don't
14:35want them. Romania says we don't want
14:36them. And finally, they can't get
14:38through.
14:39>> We have to stop that.
14:42>> And then a lot of tension between
14:44between people of different colors will
14:47simply go away. [clears throat]
14:49>> Mhm.
14:50>> Right. I want clever people in my
14:52country. I don't care what damn color
14:54they are. Right. That is not the issue.
14:57What can you bring to our nation?
15:00>> Do you think British people are lazy
15:02then?
15:02>> Uh I think they become lazy and I think
15:04the benefit system plays to that and the
15:07PIP system plays to that.
15:10>> So the mental health thing.
15:12>> So it's a default mechanism for young
15:14people. You saw the graduation uh the
15:17grad stats yesterday, the job list
15:19stats. Yeah,
15:20>> beyond shocking. We have over 200,000 uh
15:24people come into the university system
15:26every year.
15:28According to Aduna, the recruiter site,
15:32there were 8,800 jobs in July. That
15:36number in 2017 was 55,000.
15:40We what we can't just push people
15:43through the the great the university
15:45system and you come out and there aren't
15:47any jobs. That in itself will lead to
15:51trouble in houses, trouble potentially
15:54on the streets.
15:55>> Mhm.
15:55>> Right now there's no sign in our country
15:59that look first of all I am delighted.
16:01So what GB news has done is been
16:03fantastic. It's allowed the debate to
16:05take place. Previously there was no
16:07debate.
16:09Okay.
16:11But there is no sign that the ruper lows
16:13of this world are making any advancing
16:16advancements at all. Right? So their
16:19percentage at makerfield was the same as
16:22the national front got at the last
16:24election. Right? There are a group of
16:26group of people who have no political
16:28sway in our country who say x y and zed.
16:31That's fine. Right? You can ignore
16:33rupert low. Right? And so you know if
16:35rupert low is listening nobody cares.
16:38Okay. Just get that. There you go,
16:40Robert. [laughter]
16:41>> There you go. And if you want to come on
16:43to this rather good free speech show,
16:46right? [laughter] Uh be our guest. Be my
16:48guest anyway. Nobody will listen to you.
16:51Um [laughter] anyway, so uh you know
16:54that but I we we got to do this and
16:58nobody wants to do it, right? So
17:00everybody's attacking uh you know,
17:03Burnham or or SAM, but it was a
17:06conservative thing.
17:07>> Totally conservative thing.
17:08>> Yeah. Yeah, they weren't focusing. They
17:10weren't concentrating. They didn't care.
17:13Actually, we're in power. We seem to get
17:15elected every four or five years. This
17:17is great, isn't it? This is [laughter]
17:18great. What's that? Tens of thousands
17:20are coming across the No, no, don't
17:22worry about that. Right. It turns out to
17:24be people aren't stupid. They want that
17:27sorted. And no matter which party says
17:31we're going to sort it, the Greens,
17:32Labor, Tory, Lib, whoever sorted it
17:36would actually be voted in next time.
17:38Mhm.
17:38>> So, but they but nobody wants to do it
17:40because they they feel that if they do
17:42do it, a it will start a war or b they
17:45will be accused of x y and zed. Yeah.
17:48Racism.
17:50It's not racism to secure your border.
17:52Yeah. Well, what is the biggest issue in
17:54Britain right now that no one is talking
17:57about?
18:00My sense is an unhappiness with the
18:02state.
18:03>> Mhm. They feel they they they feel
18:07right. So so social media has given
18:10everybody a voice.
18:12>> Uh but however that voice can't be
18:16replicated by a government, can it?
18:18Because there are too many voices. Yeah.
18:20>> Right. It's too wide. So they say,
18:22"Well, nobody's listened to." Well,
18:23actually, I think they probably are
18:24listened to. And actually, Burnham's
18:26problem is he's constantly listening.
18:28What was that? Oh, what was that? Oh,
18:30yeah. Oh, yeah. More taxes, less taxes.
18:32[laughter]
18:33I'm worrying this that right. He he
18:35doesn't know whether he's Arthur or
18:36Martha. He is a cleverer version much
18:40cleverer version of a Labour prime
18:42minister than we had in the previous lot
18:44because if you get a if you get a um if
18:48you ever make a lawyer
18:51um a a leader a lawyer their job is if
18:56it's another cab off the rank. Oh,
18:58that's your view. Well, that's all
18:59right. How much you going to pay me?
19:00I'll do that. So, so, so along along
19:02comes old Star Dama. He he he he doesn't
19:05believe in anything. What he does
19:06believe in is have you got a rather
19:08large check to pay me to spout this
19:10nonsense and I don't care whether I win
19:11or lose. Right? So, Burnham's much
19:14clever than that and will continue to be
19:17clever. He will continue to be clever.
19:19So, that's disappointing. I mean, one of
19:21the upshots of all this, by the way, is
19:23that if he continues to be clever, the
19:25Greens go down.
19:26>> Mhm.
19:27>> Lib have gone much further left. Yeah,
19:30>> the great danger is that the that there
19:33will be a coalition of the left for 2029
19:37which could easily easily win against a
19:41coalition of the right.
19:42>> Yeah.
19:43>> Uh in which case at which point it will
19:46be further left than we are right now.
19:48>> So so the UK could be a in quite a
19:52degree of difficulty in my view.
19:54>> Yeah.
19:55>> So people don't think they've got any
19:57power. They certainly haven't got enough
19:59money. They don't feel wealthy. See, one
20:01of the things in the states is that one
20:03of the things I noticed anyway, nobody
20:05talks about benefits in the states.
20:07Nobody. Nobody. Why? Because the income
20:10that you earn, your average income is
20:13there. And benefits are there.
20:16>> Okay. In the UK, it's different. It's
20:21>> much more like that. So, people say to
20:23themselves, "Well, why? I've got three
20:25kids. I'm living in um social housing
20:28which all of which I can benefit. Well,
20:31why should I bother?
20:32>> I don't I quite admire that bloke JJ,
20:34but do you know what? I don't really
20:36want to go to work, right? And I can
20:38still make say somewhere between 30 and
20:4035,000
20:43taxree.
20:44>> Yeah.
20:44>> And yet look at that mug down there. He
20:47or she is either being a teacher or
20:50something like that and they're only
20:51making the same money as me.
20:53>> Yeah.
20:54So, but then they end up sitting
20:56completely outside society.
20:59>> Why would they do that?
21:00>> We have to do something about benefits.
21:03You think we should cut benefits? Uh I
21:06tell you what I would do. I would
21:07definitely freeze everything.
21:09>> I would definitely stop that straight
21:10away. I'd also look at But Labor are
21:14never going to do it. We can sit there
21:16and talking to 100 years old. They've
21:17already made clear nobody is cutting
21:20anything that involves a state handout.
21:23Yeah.
21:23>> Okay. What they want to do is stop the
21:26world they stop stop rather clever
21:28people getting wealthier.
21:30>> Now I I can understand paying taxes. I
21:33can't understand for instance in the
21:36south right there's not enough land
21:38>> and there's too many people quite
21:40rightly want to live here. Right. The
21:41house price goes up. Somebody says your
21:44[laughter] house has gone up.
21:47Can I have the can I have them my money
21:48please? I don't think that's reasonable.
21:50>> Yeah. But look, the problem with the
21:53country is that we are spending more
21:56than we're creating.
21:58>> Yes.
21:59>> So what is the only outcome? We have two
22:02choices. One, we cut the spending.
22:04>> Mhm.
22:05>> Or two, actually we increase taxes.
22:08Laborers said, I'll tell you what, you
22:10lot, those who are going to work can
22:13continue to pay at the high end for that
22:15lot who choose not to. That can't be
22:17fair. How can that possibly be fair?
22:19>> Yeah. And yet this it's not as simple as
22:22that. You try and tell that to the left,
22:24they say, "Well, those guys are skin
22:26anyway.
22:28The idea of making them more skin. Is
22:29that fair?" And actually, I say we we
22:33just going to have to go through. I went
22:34through it. We went through it in the
22:3680s. I went to live in America.
22:38Uh and it wasn't all easy over there.
22:41The idea is some land of milk and honey
22:42is absolute cobblers. But there is
22:44opportunities out there.
22:46>> Yeah.
22:47>> Opportunity. It's got nothing to do with
22:49who you are, what you are, where your
22:50family came from. Which is exactly what
22:52Harry and Megan are facing. You know,
22:53old Harry says, "Do you mind? I'm a
22:55[laughter] bloody I'm a bloody member of
22:57the royal effing family. Nobody. Why
22:59don't I be invited to these Hollywood
23:02parties?" And nobody cares. In fact, if
23:04you were turned up in Hollywood and they
23:06said, "This is Prince Harry." People
23:07think he was a rap artist. [laughter]
23:09No, but seriously, wouldn't they? They
23:11would genuinely they'd genuinely
23:13[laughter] be p right because he hasn't
23:16achieved anything.
23:17>> Why doesn't he just become Harry? Why
23:19don't you just try and get a bloody job,
23:21right? Why? Why? You know, so I admire
23:23her at less to be an actor. She wants to
23:27go back to acting. Good. Cuz that she's
23:30earning money. There's nothing wrong in
23:32doing that. We should salute that. All
23:34right. She might be a bit of an old
23:35witch, but there's a lot of them out
23:37there. [laughter] There's a lot of them
23:39out there. We'll touch on Harry and
23:40Megan [clears throat] in a bit, but with
23:42regards to the country, what is the
23:44answer? Is reform the answer to solving
23:47solving this this broken Britain?
23:48>> To me, reform solves one issue or might
23:52or might actually it'll it'll certainly
23:54work out whether our drones are working
23:57or not is we've got to have secure
23:59borders. That has [clears throat] to be
24:00involving turning turning back the
24:02boats.
24:03>> Mhm.
24:03>> That will be a massive massive issue.
24:07Okay. Now, a lot of people will be
24:10saying [laughter]
24:10and and and then we're going to have to
24:12we're going to have to have bring back
24:14um uh national subscription, right? So,
24:17so I'm afraid everybody's kids is going
24:19to have to go out there fighting which
24:21which would cheer me up no end actually
24:23[laughter]
24:24bloody collection of bloody dad's army
24:25up which you know bloody
24:28everything zooming over the top of them.
24:31It so reform is part of the solution.
24:34What I can't understand is why doesn't
24:36Right. Chem very clever woman. She'd
24:38probably sit here. It would be
24:39impossible to go to war with France.
24:40Yeah. Really?
24:42>> Well, why don't they stop sending us
24:44people they know shouldn't be coming
24:47here, right? Wishing them on their way,
24:50you know, waving goodbye. One of the
24:51great things, one of the great things
24:53when you go to football is I was at the
24:56Brenford Spurs game is the greatest fun
24:58you have is when we went 3-0 up is that
25:00almost 17,000 people 16,000 odd miles
25:04the Spurs lot all started waving goodbye
25:07[laughter] to the uh to to the thing and
25:08and then they started chanting the the
25:11Brenford fans is there a fire drill
25:13right because all the [laughter] Spurs
25:14fans were were leaving. So that was that
25:17was clever stuff. We have to actually
25:21say we're not taking these people. Kem,
25:24what does Kem say about that? She's
25:26quite careful about saying we're going
25:28to do X, Y, and Zed. We're going to be
25:30able to kick people out when they come
25:31here and everything.
25:32>> But I I literally don't want to I mean,
25:34we're getting people we're getting the
25:36numbers of the equivalent of the city of
25:38Durham coming in every year, right?
25:41>> This has now been going on what for four
25:42or five years.
25:43>> Yeah.
25:44So one of the aspects of of
25:48us voting Brexit is actually the very
25:52reverse to what a lot of people voted on
25:56the basis that it would stop the influx
25:59of migrants. Actually [laughter]
26:01it accelerated it.
26:03>> Yeah.
26:03>> Okay. Now what uh Nigel now says what
26:06Farage now says is actually we haven't
26:09really had Brexit. Right. And in a way
26:12he's right because would he have been a
26:14lot tougher had he been in power? We
26:17have to sort that out. That then gets
26:20then we just become an ordinary country
26:22that's we're a little old country. We we
26:25then become just a little old country
26:27and we can start dealing with our own
26:29other other issues involving cutting um
26:33benefits and the like and
26:34[clears throat] dealing and but creating
26:36wealth. That's what we want. For
26:39instance, you take this little business
26:40here, right? Turns out to be bizarrely
26:43successful, right? Bizarrely. Right.
26:46[laughter] No, but there's four but
26:47there's a lot of people in your space,
26:49right? There's four people in here,
26:51right?
26:52>> And suddenly it's getting a huge huge
26:54audience to the point where even the the
26:57the leader of the opposition parties
26:59>> Mhm.
27:00>> not the leader of the Labor Party, we
27:01might say, but he he may well come on,
27:04by the way. He may well come on. I would
27:05have thought, you know, after
27:06>> You better, Andy. You better. Yeah, he
27:09might he might well come on. So, you
27:12know this is what you want. You want a
27:14load of these which suddenly turn into
27:16something else and whatever.
27:18>> Yeah.
27:18>> Uh
27:19>> until we create wealth,
27:22>> we are done for. If we think we can just
27:24sail on on the fact that we've got some
27:26bit of a North Sea oil and actually we
27:29got some good creatives in the show
27:30business area. There is no doubt about
27:32that. Uh that is not going to do it. And
27:35not only that, other countries are damn
27:37clever. The people are clever. So one of
27:39my kids was in India uh because he's got
27:42a kind of tech business over here and
27:44went went to see because they supply the
27:45tech, you know, the thousand miles away.
27:48This is the norm.
27:49>> Yeah. A lot of it is done out of India.
27:51He said the the the the the state he was
27:54in, he said, was incredible. He said the
27:57atmosphere, the surge. [snorts] Now we
28:00do get a bit of it. Uh, you know, there
28:02are parts of London where you do feel it
28:04when you're commuting. You know, you
28:06really you really feel But they look
28:08kind of downtrodden, don't they? I mean,
28:10I mean, you come in on the commuter
28:11train that I come in on from from
28:13Wbridge, you'd have think somebody had
28:15just been had had a harpoon fired up
28:18their rear end, you know, most most of
28:19them are sitting there going,
28:22[laughter]
28:23right? They look bloody miserable,
28:25right? All right. There's a lot of
28:28surge. There's not a feeling that work
28:31is actually the most important thing
28:33you're likely to do in the day. There's
28:35a lot of feeling as uh you know, you
28:38know, you've got to get home for the
28:39kids, you got to do this, they got to do
28:41that, got to do the other. Uh so we have
28:44got to have a sense that work is not
28:47just there for the money. You are this
28:49is an important contribution you are
28:52making not only to your own life but to
28:54other people's lives. the the people
28:57that should be receiving, you know, all
28:59the plaudits. Instead of worrying about
29:00the poorest of members of the society,
29:02we should be worrying about the ordinary
29:05members of society who are trying to go
29:07the extra few yards in order to give
29:09their families a bit of time. They're
29:11the people that should be getting the
29:12awards and the skin and the dim, they
29:14can bloody will get to the back of the
29:16queue. I No, I [laughter] I don't really
29:18mean that. What I really mean is that we
29:20spend too much time worrying about I I
29:23call them skids. skin idol dim
29:26socialists. Right. Right. We worry too
29:28much time. We might spend too much time
29:30worrying about them. We spend too little
29:32time about the people who really put
29:34their shoulders to the wheel. And let me
29:36tell you this, we either put the
29:38shoulders to the wheel, right? We've had
29:40a good run. The West has had a fantastic
29:42run. I personally, right, anybody born
29:45after the war, that generation was only
29:48going one way like that. Okay. Because
29:50you were already flat on your bum. your
29:53generation, your generation and the guys
29:56in this room, they for the first time
29:59could be going like that, right? And
30:01that creates upset.
30:03>> But we can only solve it by trying to be
30:07as smart as as huge chunks of Asia.
30:10>> And or adopt [clears throat] a rather
30:13different view to the United State than
30:15than I mean the United States, it's all
30:17about wealth creation.
30:18>> Mhm.
30:19And we either do that or we are going to
30:24continue to feel very grumpy. That's the
30:27truth about the matter, isn't it? There
30:28there's a tension of grumpiness about
30:31everything.
30:32>> Right, a quick pause in the podcast to
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31:18>> But what's going on with reform? Because
31:20all I'm hearing briefings wise and
31:22leaks,
31:23>> they're all fighting against each other.
31:25Maybe Faraj is on his way out soon. Z
31:27Yousef is apparently dislikes by members
31:29of the party. What's going on? Do you
31:31know?
31:32>> Well, I wonder whether So, so I I know
31:35Yousef, right? Okay. Uh he's a uh
31:38>> You're m
31:40Okay. [laughter] very uh uh no that's a
31:42very small cue that no that is that is
31:45not true actually [laughter] that is not
31:46true anyway no no I think there's an
31:49element of racism there
31:50>> oh yeah
31:51>> I think because he's a Muslim I think
31:54some some parts of reform find it
31:57difficult to uh to accept him right
32:00>> uh which is quite wrong by the way
32:02bright as you like by the way we got
32:04blisteringly good good mind very clever
32:06guy um look they are an established
32:09party now right he he's no longer a
32:12wannabe I knew I knew Farage 30 odd 35
32:16years ago he's walking around in the
32:18desert nobody would even give him a tent
32:21you know I'm I'm Nigel Farage I wonder
32:23whether I might be able to say this one
32:25no thanks very much right now he
32:27represents 20 25% of the nation
32:31big time and therefore he is big time
32:33Richard Ty a clever guy be the first
32:36bloke to tell you that by the way
32:37[laughter]
32:38so Richard T. Clever guy. Um he uh these
32:44are clever people. Lee Anderson. Lee
32:46Anderson. Actually, bizarrely cleverly
32:48on the show.
32:49>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. So, he has a good
32:50way with him, right?
32:52>> Uh you'd expect them all to be battling
32:54away. I mean, it's what it's what
32:55happens in all the it's what happens. I
32:57mean, Tory party, they battled away and
33:00every so often somebody threw a prime
33:03minister out the window, didn't they? I
33:04mean, it was astonishing, wasn't it? You
33:05wake up every day. Hello. Who's the
33:07prime minister? Does it matter?
33:09[laughter] And so you've you've got you
33:12you've got that you've got that going
33:13on. So I'd expect that to happen. Right.
33:16So Labour Party, it's all going rather
33:18well. All going rather well. Huge
33:20majority, 180 plus majority, all going
33:22rather well. Whistling the prime
33:23minister out. all the the right the
33:27essential the essential um if you want
33:30to get on in politics the essential end
33:34of your your your DNA is um deceit and
33:40cunning. So you're all massively up for
33:44whoever the new leader is massively up
33:46and immediately you don't get
33:47preferment. you are spending the entire
33:50time polishing the stairs open and they
33:52break their neck and and they are very
33:54clever at it, right? They remain
33:56enormously loyal, enormously
34:00loyal right up until the minute when
34:02they stab you very very firmly in the
34:04front. So that that's so that's the
34:06strength. So so reform it may be going
34:09through difficult times. I don't expect
34:11I don't expect their percentage to go
34:13down very much actually because I think
34:16they are offering
34:18quotes a solution unquote to that to the
34:21problem and but immediately
34:25Badino says this is what we're going to
34:27do by the way we're hiring new missiles
34:30we're building new missiles not for
34:32Ukraine but to fire at the French right
34:34at that point she you [laughter]
34:38either you get a new leader of the
34:40Conservative Party or she wins by a
34:42thousand thousand seats or something. So
34:45reform reform reform cannot continue
34:47though. If if if you're saying that one
34:50one of their brightest people is ZF
34:53>> and there's a racism problem in reform.
34:55>> Yeah.
34:55>> Then they surely that's that's they
34:58cannot continue. They cannot continue
35:00being being racist and disliking Zfsef
35:03and Zsef continuing in that party. I'm
35:05talking about I'm talking about uh this
35:08is under under the radar. Okay.
35:11>> The radar. It it's not it's not obvious,
35:14you know. It's not obvious or I'm trying
35:16to find out why they don't like him. He
35:19may be a difficult guy.
35:20>> Mhm.
35:21>> I've never found him difficult. He does
35:23he's he's got a strong personality.
35:26>> Um but um you but you're right. the
35:30what's happening at the moment is that
35:32the atmosphere surrounding reform is of
35:36fighting and tension and all the rest of
35:37it. But you'd expect that with
35:39everything that's going on. You know,
35:40the idea the idea that that uh Farage
35:44may face between 1 and 3 months probably
35:47a record suspension for a um an MP
35:53>> um uh is obviously uh destabilizing, you
35:58know, and what will he do? I sus I
36:01suggest that he comes into your business
36:04in that 3 months if he went if he went
36:07live and did a podcast. I I can't
36:10imagine what the size of that audience
36:11would be. And the way that YouTube
36:13works, as you guys well know, since
36:15since you're successful at it, is
36:18honestly the money would simply cascade
36:21on him because those people who support
36:23reform look upon reform as a club.
36:26>> Mhm.
36:26>> And they want to be they they want to be
36:28part of that club. So the fact that
36:30their leader has been pushed out, they
36:32will say, "Where can I get where can I
36:34hear the words of the Messiah?" He will
36:36make a fortune. He make much much more
36:38money doing a five day a week podcast,
36:41live podcast, than he ever will uh from
36:44receiving money from crypto
36:46billionaires. [laughter]
36:48No, I'm being serious. My bet my bet
36:51back of the packet e economics would
36:54indicate to me that he would make
36:57probably at least three to five million
37:00a year.
37:01>> Mhm.
37:02>> If he did his own if he did his own
37:04show.
37:05>> Gosh. Huh?
37:06>> Well, I'd rather he didn't do his own
37:07show. There's not not quite enough space
37:09for both of us. [laughter]
37:10>> Now, Calvin, you were the most
37:13successful editor of The Sun.
37:14>> Yeah, correct.
37:15>> What was that? 4 million copies a day.
37:17>> Yeah. Yeah. A lot of copies. Yeah. Yeah.
37:19>> So, what is it that you understood about
37:20the British public back then that our
37:22mainstream media don't understand about
37:24the British public today?
37:25>> Well, first of all, it was a damn site
37:26easier. Mhm.
37:27>> Okay. That's the main thing because the
37:30and and of course if you had the choice
37:32between putting on the front page the
37:34words NATO or
37:37>> Mhm.
37:37>> and or alternatively putting some rather
37:41famous married person who appeared to
37:43have spent the night in a hotel with an
37:46unmarried lady with large bosoms. You
37:49didn't have to be a rocket scientist to
37:51work out which [laughter] which one to
37:54stick on page one. This was not you
37:57didn't need an algorithm to help you.
37:59Okay. It was quite clear what was going
38:02to work.
38:03>> Yeah.
38:03>> And what and what I decided quite early
38:06on in order for personal survival was
38:09that if we put more of uh famous people
38:13appear to be shacked up in hotels with
38:16unmarried ladies, the sale would go up.
38:18And if I put the words NATO on page one,
38:20the sale would go down.
38:22>> Uhhuh. So it was that kind of
38:24intellectual choice which uh saved my
38:27bacon.
38:28>> Okay. [laughter] Yeah. Now you were
38:31sacked from several several jobs.
38:34>> I was sacked from everywhere. I've been
38:36sacked from the sun.
38:38>> Yeah.
38:38>> Sacked from actually I was sacked from
38:40the Telegraph without writing a column.
38:42How about that? [laughter]
38:43>> It was How's that work?
38:45>> Well, the way it worked was The way it
38:47worked was the editor asked me to write
38:49a column for the Telegraph.
38:50>> Yeah. This then received publicity. The
38:53staff, this is a collection
38:55[clears throat] of collection of the
38:56dicks at the Telegraph, [laughter]
38:57right? The staff then complained to the
39:02editor and said, "I if he's joining,
39:05we're going." [laughter] Right? You
39:07would have thought actually looking at
39:08the state of the Telegraph that would
39:09have actually be a better paper if there
39:11was none of their crap going in it.
39:13Anyway, at that I then get the phone
39:14call from the editor saying, "I'm
39:16terribly sorry about this. [laughter]
39:17Um, I'm afraid you're being fine." Well,
39:20do you know what I and and um anyway uh
39:25so I got right so I got sack from the
39:27sun from the sun from the sun
39:30>> because I wrote a column about um a
39:35footballer who played for Everton uh
39:39then I think he's currently with Aston
39:40Villa actually and uh
39:44>> oh Ross Barkley
39:44>> Ross Barkley and he I I said that I'd
39:48never quite seen anybody quite so thick
39:51as Ross Barkley, right? And um and that
39:54the uh last time I'd seen anybody with
39:57eyes as dim as him was on Guy the
39:59Gorilla. Now, [laughter] how could you
40:02insult anybody like that? What I didn't
40:03know was that he had a Nigerian
40:06grandfather. So, he had a he had some
40:10Nigerian blood in him,
40:11>> right? I thought Ross Barkley was white.
40:15>> [laughter]
40:15>> As far as I know, there was nobody who
40:17who thought the Ross Barkley had
40:19anything anyway because it was
40:21Liverpool. There was a massive pylon.
40:24And so next minute, whoop, jobby
40:27overboard. I'm fired from there. So I'm
40:29fired from the Telegraph. I'm fired from
40:31the Sun. The Daily Mail I got I wrote a
40:35rather vile column for the Sun. A v col
40:37column for the mail. They fired me.
40:39[laughter] Uh and uh Is anybody else
40:43fired me? Oh, I got fired from Sky News
40:46as well because uh I used to do a thing
40:49on Sky News pouring a bucket on the
40:51left, you know, which is not not
40:53particularly difficult, you know,
40:54[laughter] left wing. Yeah. Bucket
40:57bucket bucket of rhubarb on them
41:00[laughter] and I get I then run into the
41:03Ross Barkley issue and they then can me
41:06straight away. [laughter] Right. So
41:08everywhere you go actually I don't care.
41:11I literally don't care. And in fact I
41:13it's not I understand I do understand it
41:16[laughter] but you after a while you
41:18kind of get used to it. Yeah you in fact
41:20sometimes I was thinking of ringing it
41:22up and just saying I'd written a column
41:24just calling up the editor. Look look I
41:25I've just written this column. Look
41:27[laughter]
41:28I I I think I should be fired. All
41:29right. Okay. Put the phone down. Put the
41:32phone down. And uh [laughter] and I
41:36literally couldn't give her stuff. I I'd
41:39reached the point of absolute madness.
41:42[laughter] That's man. So the only way
41:43to to to get around all that is actually
41:46to own your own stuff.
41:47>> And you owned you owned talk sport.
41:50>> I owned I owned a chunk of talk sport. I
41:52I wish I had owned it all but uh I
41:54didn't have enough money for that. And
41:56um yeah I own yeah started talk sport.
41:59>> But the reason I started talk sport so I
42:01I appropriate genius to myself for this
42:03especially when I'm raising money.
42:05Right. [laughter]
42:07The genius McKenzie here he is. Welcome.
42:10And uh no, the reason so I I persuaded
42:14Murdoch to put up put up some money and
42:16somebody else put up the money and I I
42:18put in a chunk as well. Money I didn't
42:20actually possess actually to be honest.
42:21Um and um and I started off a talk talk
42:27a talk radio station.
42:28>> Mhm.
42:30>> What what's happened talk radio doesn't
42:32really work so well because there's a
42:34lot of competition coming out from
42:35people like you.
42:36>> Yeah.
42:37And uh but talk sport was doing quite
42:41well in America. So I called Mur Cup. I
42:43said, "Look, I'm going bust here on this
42:45bloody thing here. You are you're going
42:47bus. [laughter] So why are you calling
42:49me?" And I said, "Look, I'm going to
42:51change it to sport just and you'll go
42:53ahead." He was the majority shareholder.
42:54He said, "Yeah, fine. Give it a go." So
42:56we so we changed it and then it became
42:58successful.
42:59>> Wow. And so I was pretty successful with
43:01it and the Murdoch people then
43:03eventually bought it and they've turned
43:05it into a very very great franchise and
43:09great well done to them for doing that.
43:12Um but I've tried other things since
43:14then. Some of them have worked, some of
43:16them haven't. The truth is you've just
43:18got to keep going or or don't put your
43:20feet up. My advice to anybody listening
43:22or viewing is actually just keep going.
43:26You stay younger, right? gives you an
43:29opportunity to be married on a number of
43:30occasions. [laughter] Uh, no, I'm joking
43:33with that. Um, uh, it just stay just
43:36stay on it. Carry on. Carry on going.
43:40Don't allow other people's views of your
43:43ability [laughter]
43:44to cramp your style. I want you to
43:47remember that.
43:49Eventually, when you get a tap on the
43:50shoulder, [laughter] JJ, it's been going
43:53very well, but your audience is now
43:54minus 7.
43:56It's time to go. No, but I'm being
43:58serious. I'm being serious. You You
44:01know, you've got something. Well,
44:02obviously something's going right here
44:04because because the numbers have gone
44:05through the roof, haven't they? And
44:06well, well done to you. But there's a
44:08lot of people out there who've done
44:10exactly what you've tried to do and it
44:11hasn't worked. But when it doesn't work,
44:14don't don't take it personally. Just
44:16say, "Oh, well, they're idiots.
44:18[laughter] It's my opportunity to have
44:20another go."
44:20>> Well, you work with Mike Graeme on UK
44:23Live.
44:23>> Yes.
44:24>> Did anyone try and cancel you for that?
44:26because you know he had the whole sacks
44:27from talk TV over the the the Facebook
44:30post.
44:31>> Yes. Well,
44:31>> his phone was hacked.
44:33>> Okay. Well, [laughter] look, I don't
44:35know whether his his his phone was
44:37hacked or not. He says it was, and
44:39that's fine by me. However, me, I would
44:42have done exactly the opposite to to
44:44that. I would have simply said I think
44:47he said I don't know what was said, but
44:49I haven't really researched it, but I
44:50think he said in there that uh there
44:53were uh too many migrants in London.
44:55Okay. It It may have been a lot rudder
44:57than that.
44:57>> Yeah, it was a lot r.
44:58>> Okay, fine. We say it's a lot rder than
45:00that.
45:00>> Yeah.
45:00>> Okay. Me, I just gone and got the stats.
45:05I got an economist to say
45:09what was the change between say the
45:111960s, '7s, '8s, right? And actually
45:14prove that I was right. And do you know
45:15what I would have gone? I'd have gone to
45:17news and said, "Really?
45:20There's nothing in my contract that says
45:21I can't say that kind of thing. Here's
45:23the stats on it. I'm suing you. By the
45:25way, they would have paid him a lot of
45:26money to go away. Yeah. Okay. Instead of
45:29just saying get out. So
45:31>> these and the other thing to bear in
45:33mind is that media companies no longer
45:36have the grip on talent.
45:38>> Mhm.
45:39>> Talent,
45:41yours, somebody else's actually will
45:44prevail.
45:45>> Mhm.
45:46>> You can either write well, you can
45:47present well, you can do both or
45:49something that will earn you money. Now,
45:52thanks to the democratization of social
45:55media, particularly in the television
45:58business in YouTube, right? So, you get
46:01fired now,
46:02>> you can still make your money as long as
46:04you're genuine.
46:05>> Mhm. Yeah.
46:07>> So, the I think the problem for Holly
46:08Willoughby is she's taking a an edited,
46:13you know, works nicely on network
46:16television product and say, let's do
46:18this.
46:19>> I don't believe that that can work. I
46:21totally agree with you.
46:22>> Yeah, totally agree [clears throat] with
46:23you.
46:23>> However, if you got two really mad
46:26people,
46:27>> right, I mean, literally start raving
46:29crazy saying, "This is the color that
46:32you should be wearing that you try all
46:33this makeup and stuff like that. That
46:36might work."
46:36>> Uhhuh.
46:37>> So, she's got to be a lot more genuine.
46:39But when you live in a 5 million pound
46:40house in Barnes, you got the old man's
46:43got his own printing press out the back
46:44for the money. You know, [laughter] I I
46:46I I just don't believe that ordinary
46:49people can can can feel quite can feel
46:54linked in the same way as they may may
46:56well do for you.
46:57>> Yeah.
46:57>> Coin, thank you very much.
46:59>> I hope you've enjoyed the episode of
47:00Daily Epresso. Please like, share,
47:02subscribe, comment, and most
47:04importantly, hit that heart button. See
47:05you next time. Bye-bye.
47:11>> [music]