Full transcript
Male Testosterone Crisis
0:00We hear that male testosterone levels
0:03have dropped on average since like the
0:0570s or something like that.
0:07>> First of all, is that true?
0:09>> Yeah. So, there is some truth to that.
0:11And the reason is because we know that
0:14as people get more unhealthy, they get
0:15more comorbid conditions, more diabetes,
0:18more high blood pressure, more um you
0:20know uh high cholesterol. All of these
0:22things are basically going up and
0:25testosterone subsequently is going down.
0:27So the more you acquire these things,
0:29the more obesity, the more metabolic
0:30syndrome, the more we're seeing
0:32testosterone go down and even in younger
0:34people because they're also unhealthy,
0:36>> legendarily so,
0:37>> right? And so that's the number one
0:39reason. There's also a whole host of
0:41other things that contribute. We are
0:43having more exposures to endocrine
0:45disrupting chemicals in the environment.
0:48Um, and some of which we do have
0:50legislation to control like there's no
0:51micro beads in and micro micro bead sort
0:54of products anymore that are available
0:56in the United States. BPA free is a very
0:58common thing. So there are things in
1:00place to try to limit exposures, but
1:02we're eating like what a credit card of
1:04plastic every year or something.
1:05>> I make sure to eat a real credit card
1:07every year just not to miss out.
1:08>> Yeah, of course. Yeah. Um, so you know,
1:10I mean, I think there are exposures that
1:11we can sort of limit, but to some degree
1:14we're all exposed and the good news is
1:16that we can get rid of a lot of it, but
1:17at some point it does accumulate, right?
1:19And so that's causing issues. Um, and so
1:22yeah, all those things together and
1:24then, you know, when when you're
1:25thinking about things that boost
1:26testosterone, it's like movement, right?
1:28It's it's moving your body, lifting
1:30weights, doing, you know, high-intensity
1:32interval training and like we are more
1:34and more sedentary, right? We're doing
1:35Zoom meetings at home, like we're
1:37sitting on our couches and like since
1:38COVID and so I think that's playing a
1:40big role in it.
1:41>> Yeah.
1:42>> And we're more stressed out than ever,
1:43right? People are just so stressed like
1:46chronic levels of stress and if you have
1:48chronic chronically elevated cortisol,
1:50it's going to affect your testosterone.
1:51>> That's a big deal.
1:52>> That also ends up affecting sexual
1:54behavior tremendously because I think
1:56stress is like the great killer of sex
1:58life pretty much.
1:59>> Absolutely. I mean, you can't get turned
2:00on when you're when you're like
2:02stressed.
2:03>> Yeah. It's like just now's not the time.
2:05>> Yeah. Exactly.
2:06>> Just imagine like you've got like a like
2:08a machine gun up and there's zombies
2:09down range and the girl next to you is
2:11like, "Let's get it on." You're like,
2:11"Are you crazy?
2:14>> There's a time and place for this young
2:15lady."
2:15>> Yes.
2:16>> Yeah. And so if you low-key always have
2:18stress, you low-key
2:20>> have will have lower testosterone
2:21probably and probably like less fruitful
2:24and regenerative sexual interactions
2:27that are just healthy for humans to
2:28have.
2:29>> Right. Right. And it's sort of like a a
2:31self-fulfilling prophecy like your
2:32testosterone goes up when you have
2:33anticipation for sex.
2:35>> Yes.
2:35>> And so if you don't have anticipation
2:37for sex because you're stressed all the
2:39time, that also plays a role, right? And
2:41then, you know, I think the other big
2:42one is sleep. So we don't sleep. We are
2:45scrolling our phones until whatever hour
2:47of night or we're purposely staying up
2:50late because life is so stressful and we
2:52want this downtime,
2:53>> but then we're hurting ourselves.
2:55>> That's a big one.
2:56people will have these really ambitious
2:58I mean to make this not so negative and
3:02like balanced humans are accomplishing
3:05more than ever
3:06>> absolutely
3:06>> our incomes are staggering relative to
3:09uh our ability to buy things absolutely
3:11staggering so we're just hyper
3:13successful but we're so successful that
3:15we end up working so much and getting so
3:16stressed and we end up having like an
3:19half an hour at the end of every day to
3:21be like well just you time now and
3:23you're like I don't need half an hour I
3:24need 3 hours and then you're missing
3:26And that whole thing of stress is going
3:28on and you don't have time to connect
3:29with your partner because everyone's
3:30working like a dog. Like we wanted this.
3:33Um,
3:34>> one thing I like to tell people is like
3:35economically almost every American, not
3:37every, but almost every can afford to
3:39work like half as much and still have a
3:40great standard of living. When you're
3:42like, "Hey, do you want to work half as
3:43much and have half less money?" You're
3:44like most people are just like, "No, I'm
3:46I want money. I'm good."
3:48>> Consumerism is like a real thing, right?
3:50So you got to keep up with the Joneses
3:52in order to keep your lifestyle. you got
3:53to keep working and um you know I think
3:56that's a real problem right because we
3:58like we also have now because of modern
4:00technology the ability to work like from
4:02our phones everywhere like you can
4:05literally be constantly working if you
4:06so choose to
4:08>> every time I'm on a flight to go
4:10somewhere usually for work I end up
4:11looking at my phone like here for 3
4:13hours might as well get to work and I
4:15just end up working I think a lot of
4:16people end up doing that yeah that's
4:18that's a big deal
Sperm Counts
4:19>> um all right let's uh talk about the
4:21elephant in the room I'm kidding I don't
4:23that's a a shit analogy. Um
4:27that's funnier when I say it.
4:30People
4:32have lower sperm counts as well.
4:34>> Males have lower sperm counts.
4:35>> Correct.
4:36>> There have been many hypothesis as to
4:38why that is. Part of it's testosterone
4:40mediated, part of it is no doubt
4:41endocrine chemical to some limited or
4:43moderate extent, but it's not the whole
4:45picture. We know that.
4:46>> Yeah.
4:47But what about ejaculation frequency
4:51mediated by pornography? Because this is
4:53a story I've heard.
4:55>> Folks are jerking it a lot. And what
4:57that does is it lowers the accumulation
5:01of higher testosterone through the week,
5:03for example, because it's kind of an off
5:05valve. It also reduces sperm count and
5:08keeps your sperm count lower. And uh
5:11maybe it also, and this is speculative,
5:13I'd love for you to uh touch on this,
5:15somehow kind of deflates your deep drive
5:18and motivation for success or something
5:20like that. People are kind of fuzzy
5:22about that might reduce athletic
5:23performance. It just kind of takes the
5:25oomph out of your sales. How much of
5:27that is true? Is it true only at the
5:29extremes? Does it affect everyone? What
5:31is your take on that?
5:32>> Well, let's talk about the stuff that we
5:33absolutely know. So what we absolutely
5:34know is that when you are ejaculating
5:37frequently, your sperm concentration and
5:40count is going to be lower, right? And
5:41so we've they've actually done multiple
5:43studies to figure out like how often
5:44should you ejaculate if you want to get
5:47pregnant, right? So that's that there's
5:48an abundance of data on that. And
5:50they've had people abstain for days and
5:52days and days versus, you know, 24
5:54hours. And they found that really yes
5:56your sperm count goes up over days but
5:59at about 5 days the sperm actually
6:01becomes has more DNA fragmentation and
6:03becomes genetically less favorable. And
6:05so you want
6:06>> sperm.
6:07>> Yes. So you don't really want that kind
6:09of sperm when you're trying to have a
6:10baby. So what we tell people at least in
6:12terms of like keeping healthy sperm is
6:1624 to 48 hours. So you should have sex
6:18maybe every other day or every day
6:19during your fertile window. Um but
6:21that's sufficient. You don't need to do
6:23more than that and you don't need to do,
6:24you know, you don't need to go wait five
6:26days, right? Because you want to
6:28essentially have the best chance for sex
6:30to have a conception. So, that's one.
6:32So, two, then talking about like how
6:34does it affect um testosterone?
6:37Well, there's actually no data. Um
6:40there's only like one study that looked
6:41at guys who abstained and it was like 10
6:44guys and they abstained for 21 days. And
6:47so, they looked at testosterone levels.
6:48>> They were all lying.
6:49>> Yeah. Well, I mean, whatever.
6:51Who knows? But by the 21st day, they
6:54checked their testosterone again and it
6:55was higher by about 50 nanogs per
6:57deciliter now.
6:58>> Oh, that's nothing.
6:59>> It's nothing, right? That could be like
7:00a regular day.
7:01>> That's within the margin of error.
7:02>> Yeah. And so, and and then also you
7:05could say like it's there's the
7:06anticipatory cue. Like if you really
7:08abstained for 21 days, like you're
7:09really excited. So that's going to play
7:11a role as well. So really it was 10
7:13healthy guys with no real medical
7:15problems who did this. And like it's not
7:16enough to to make any sort of sort of
7:19finding with that. There was one other
7:20study with like 30 patients and that was
7:23actually debunked and like pulled from
7:24the literature. So like still people are
7:26like looking at that study and it's like
7:28there was actually a retraction of that
7:29study. Um so ultimately there's really
7:32no evidence that ejaculating more
7:34frequently or abstaining for like no nut
7:36November for example or whatever semen
7:38retention my next talking point of my
7:40>> is really going to make a difference in
7:42terms of like you getting your
7:44testosterone higher. Now in so that's
7:46one thing. Now, in terms of like you
7:47said like your mood or you're feeling a
7:49little less desire or urge for sex. Now,
7:52I think that's a whole host of different
7:53things. So, why are you masturbating so
7:56frequently and using whatever means to
7:59do that? Whether it's pornography or or
8:01whatever, why why toaster?
8:05>> Think about that.
8:06>> Yeah. Okay.
8:08>> Don't you kink shame me.
8:09>> I You're right. You're right. That's if
8:11that's what you're into. Just don't put
8:12your app offendage in there. Okay.
8:13>> Oh, that's exactly what it's for. It's
8:16safe. I think I used to be an
8:17electrician. Anyway, please answer the
8:19question.
8:19>> Anyway, so so the question is then why
8:21are you doing that? Usually what happens
8:22in people who are masturbating quite
8:24frequently.
8:26>> What is quite frequently? Can you tell
8:27us?
8:27>> I guess it's really quite frequently to
8:29the point where it's detracting from
8:31their life, right? For some people
8:33masturbating once a month is detract is,
8:36you know, distracting to them. They feel
8:37a lot of shame or guilt or whatever.
8:40>> And then there's some people who they
8:42can masturbate every day and they're
8:43fine. It doesn't cause any problems.
8:45They're having healthy relationships.
8:46They're going to work. They're doing all
8:47their normal stuff and they're fine.
8:48>> An evening wink basically,
8:50>> right? And some people they're doing it
8:51like five, six times a day. And that's,
8:54you know, that is causing a problem cuz
8:55they're like now not working and they're
8:57not doing other things, right? And so
8:58it's really subjective how much is too
9:00much. But in some people like why are
9:03they doing that, right? Are they doing
9:05it because they're looking for pleasure?
9:06Are they doing it because they're bored?
9:08Are they doing it because they're
9:09depressed and they're looking for a
9:10dopamine hit? Right? And so you could
9:12substitute porn for or masturbation for
9:14anything, right? Like it could be like
9:16you're overeating, you're um you know,
9:19you're spending money compulsively
9:20shopping, right? So like it's really
9:22you're using that particular activity uh
9:25to either cure boredom or to deal with
9:28shame or distress or sadness or whatever
9:32emotionally negative feeling.
9:33>> So the genesis really matters.
9:35>> Correct. And so in those cases, it's
9:37really not the act itself, it's what's
9:40driving the act. And so that then
9:42obviously you're not going to be happy
9:44and looking for like joy in life because
9:46you're the reason you're doing this is
9:48because you're sad or you're bored or
9:49whatever.
9:50>> But that sad bored thing started first
9:52what you're saying. It's not like you
9:54get into porn and all of a sudden you're
9:55like this is my only reason for being
9:57and it just takes over. I'm sure that
9:58happens to some folks. A vast minority
10:01as far as I saw in the literature.
10:02>> Yeah. I mean it's like 3% maybe like as
10:05it's probably higher now. I mean the
10:07literature is a little bit older but I
10:08think like the reality is that most
10:11people are using it for some purpose
10:13right and then they find that that's
10:15where they keep going for their joy and
10:17it's not and then they feel shame and
10:18they feel guilt and they have this moral
10:20inongruence
10:21>> with what they're doing like oh this is
10:23bad this is shameful and now they feel
10:24really bad and then to not feel bad they
10:26do it again.
10:28>> Whoa.
10:29>> Yeah,
10:29>> Scott that w last one hit me bro. That's
10:31like last Tuesday for me.
10:34The tears as lubricant also. No, I'm
10:36kidding. Um, okay. Interesting. So, if I
No Nut November
10:41say I want to do No Nut November.
10:44>> And for me, that's just like a fun
10:45thing, fun way to challenge myself, no
10:47harm, no foul.
10:48>> Absolutely not. No.
10:49>> But if I'm doing No Nut November and I'm
10:51going to be like, "This is going to
10:52reinvigorate my core masculinity and
10:53realign me with ancestral principles,"
10:55I'm probably not going to see that. You
10:57know, I think some guys feel that it
10:58does though because they just feel this
11:00like now they're not focused on whatever
11:03the trigger was, right? They found some
11:05other way to cope with that trigger and
11:07they're not focused on this strong
11:09desire to like go masturbate. And so now
11:11like, oh, I have all this clarity. I
11:12feel so great. I'm like focused on real
11:15life and I'm having real connection with
11:16people and I'm not just thinking about
11:19masturbating. And so like they finally
11:20feel this clarity because they really
11:22did have sort of an issue, right? they
11:24were using it a lot and they were using
11:25it as a as a dependence almost and now
11:27they feel clarity and so I I say you
11:29know what if you do feel that way that's
11:31great but that doesn't mean that that's
11:33going to apply to every single person
11:35and what happens is a lot of people end
11:36up doing it because they feel like oh
11:38this is good for me I need to do this
11:40and they're they're they're like
11:41miserable they're like clenching their
11:43pelvic floor and they're like they're so
11:45stressed and then they have a nighttime
11:46emission or a wet dream and they're like
11:48and like oh my god I failed I'm a
11:50horrible person
11:51>> wow they take it like that finally a wet
11:53or they get shamed if they're in a
11:55community where they're like, "Oh, this
11:56happened to me." Like, "Oh, how could
11:57you? You failed now. You failed the
11:59challenge and you're not as much of a
12:00man or you know, whatever." Right? And
12:02so, that's what I take issue with. I
12:04don't take issue with anyone feeling
12:05good about what they're doing. Great.
12:07Keep doing it. But like, don't push
12:09those values on people who don't
12:10necessarily need that or may not
12:13perceive that benefit.
12:14>> Sure.
12:15>> So, november totally optional. If it's
12:18something that empowers you and
12:19distresses you and allows you to focus
12:20on the rest of life, amazing. If you try
12:22it and you realize that the thing that
12:24was letting you focus on the rest of
12:25life was getting off because if you
12:27don't get off, you're just constantly
12:29staring at titties instead of doing your
12:30job, then it's time to unccork and then
12:33go back to work. It just low-key I think
12:35the vast majority of men masturbate for
12:37exactly that reason. Like I'm not going
12:39to go to work after 3 days of not
12:40getting something out of my body because
12:42then every interaction's just like I
12:44don't know. It's It's tough to convince
12:46people who are not male or extremely
12:49high sex drive female what it's like to
12:52live in a male mind. And like
12:55evolution's one hell of a force and it's
12:57always nudging you like, "Hey, hey,
12:58think about sex." And you're like, "I'm
13:00at work looking at code." It's like,
13:02"Okay,
13:03>> hey, think about some sex." You're like,
13:04"God damn it." And so for some people, I
13:07think the unccoring is actually super
13:09therapeutic. For some people, it's
13:1150/50. And what you're saying is for
13:13others the uncquiring gets to be the
13:15focal point, but that's usually because
13:17they're coming from not so great
13:19alternative uses of their time
13:20basically.
13:21>> Yeah. In fact, they've looked so they've
13:22they've come up with this thing like um
13:24compulsive um is it compulsive sexual
13:27behavior? some terminology. Um, and
13:29basically when there was one study where
13:31they looked at the the characteristics
13:33of patients who had these these findings
13:35like these six characteristics or
13:37whatever and they overlied them with
13:38depression and they found that they were
13:40really like sort of in line with each
13:42other. So there may be that there's some
13:44conccomant like there's depression and
13:46they're actually treating their
13:47depression by doing these compulsive
13:48behaviors, right? Um, we don't know for
13:50sure. This is all really early thinking,
13:53but I think that there's something
13:54there, right? like we should be asking
13:56patients and checking for depression and
13:58you know vice versa.
Repository of Relaxation
14:00>> Yeah. When I have been seriously
14:02overworked in various phases of my life
14:05um you know like eventually at the other
14:07end of overwork is depression if you
14:09push far enough
14:10>> and then it's adaptive because your
14:11body's like we're going to turn off
14:12we're going to turn you off so you can
14:14recover. You're going to you're going to
14:15kill yourself if you go like this. And
14:17so what I found is that notions of
14:20eating tasty food, of getting lots of
14:22sleep, of I think uninterrupted
14:24relaxation time, and of nutting, for
14:26lack of a better term, are like start to
14:29look like these repositories of
14:31relaxation that you can go to. And the
14:33only reason they feel like that is
14:34because you're so fucking overwhelmed.
14:36And as soon as I became not overwhelmed,
14:38I'm like, "God, do I want to jerk off?"
14:39And the answer is like, "Nah, I'm good."
14:41And then you just go about your day. But
14:42if it's like, "Oh my god, this is
14:43guaranteed pleasure." and it just gets
14:45me away from everything. It starts to
14:47look good. So, I can totally see how
14:48folks in like not my junior league, not
14:50really depression, for real for real
14:52depression, that can be like your one of
14:54your only places of solace. Uh, and also
14:56I think describes a little bit of the
14:58vectors for obesity when people get
15:00really really really obese almost
15:02always. What I've noticed is food for
15:04them is their their hiding place from
15:06the world from their extreme stress they
15:09live in mostly in their own heads. But
15:10then again, stress only matters in your
15:12own head if you think about it. Yeah.
15:14>> Yeah. Well, and you know, orgasms are
15:16powerful, right? So,
15:17>> not mine. I mean other people. Mine are
15:19pathetic.
15:20>> Stop. Why are you laughing at that?
15:22>> No, but but really orgasms are powerful,
15:24right? They are they they can reduce
15:27your blood pressure. They can improve
15:28your heart rate. They can make you feel
15:30sleepy. They're super healthy,
15:31>> right? And and so they're so great for
15:33you. Like they're, you know, could we
15:34use them for pain control? Like, you
15:36know, could you use them for other
15:37reasons? Absolutely. And so I think
15:39people don't realize also that there's
15:41some people who all they can get an
15:42orgasm from is themselves. They don't
15:44have a partner or they can't get one,
15:46right? And so now you're taking them and
15:48saying, "Hey, don't do this. Don't do
15:50this wonderful like don't have this
15:52wonderful experience that makes you feel
15:53good because it's bad, right? In your
15:56head that it's bad and like, oh, it
15:58might turn into this terrible thing for
15:59you." But it's like, no, now you've
16:01literally taken someone who has nothing,
16:03like no person, no partner to actually
16:04have sex with, and you're saying, don't
16:06do this one thing that might actually
16:08make you feel good.
16:09>> Yeah. So I guess at the end of the day
16:11modulating your own testosterone levels,
16:13your own health and performance, your
16:15own vitality, your own psychological
16:16stable environment can be or rather
16:20ejaculation is uh even if it's uh um
16:24self-derived
16:25can range from anywhere between a real
16:28toxic thing you're doing too much of and
16:30it's not great for you all the way to
16:32like probably for most people like a
16:34normal thing that happens and it's just
16:36not a big deal all the way to a very
16:39important part of life that can be a
16:41hugely regulatory experience for you
16:43that makes you feel much better than if
16:45someone said just don't do this at all
16:46cuz it's bad.
16:47>> Absolutely.
16:48>> The whole spectrum.
16:49>> Absolutely. And I think that it's
16:50probably more good than bad for most
16:52people, right? Because I think it's easy
16:54for people to fearmonger and say like
16:57this is terrible, this is horrible. But
16:59I think most people would say like,
17:00yeah, I enjoy exploring myself. I enjoy
17:02having orgasms and it feels good and
17:05like it's great and I use it when I need
17:07to.
17:07>> Yeah. I think a lot of times we hear
17:10like comment sections and stuff get
17:12really negative about this and then you
17:14realize talking to those folks that
17:16these are precisely the folks who were
17:18triggered by an episode of unhealthy
17:20relationship to their own orgasms.
17:22>> Yeah.
17:22>> And not a judgment. It's just reality.
17:24We've all been in some weird places and
17:26they're coming from the perspective of
17:28I'm in this weird place or I have been.
17:30And they sort of just like all of us
17:31assume well everyone else is like this
17:33too. You know, it's like um folks that
17:36have had uh you know, currently sober
17:37folks that have been alcoholics before,
17:39they'll tell everyone alcohol is like
17:41the worst thing in the world. And for
17:42most people, it really is just like a
17:44few drinks and they're totally fine. And
17:45so it's just not true. But for folks
17:47like them, it really is the worst thing
17:49in the world. So there's a a validity of
17:51all perspectives, but not necessarily
17:53taking any one perspective and spreading
17:55it to all other people.
17:56>> Yeah. And then you know I think people
17:58also you know there is a lot of moral
18:00high ground when it comes to sex and
18:03self-pleasure and uh and people are
18:06raised in a certain way right there.
18:07Like think about it when you're a kid
18:09and like you are masturbating and your
18:11mom walks in or whatever. You're like
18:13stop that.
18:13>> I'm lucky to never have that memory.
18:15>> Well well that's good. I mean, they're
18:16they're like, "Stop that. Don't do
18:17that." You know, like whatever. And you
18:19feel embarrassed and you're like, "Oh,"
18:20or like little kids will do it and they
18:22don't know realize what they're doing
18:23and then their parents like, "Don't do
18:24that here or don't do that in front of
18:25me." Or like, so you're immediately
18:27told, "Oh, this is something that I
18:28should be ashamed of like
18:30unintentionally."
18:30>> And you think that's not a good practice
18:32to
18:32>> I think that that there's a way to
18:34handle it where you're like, "Look, this
18:35is something that's fine to do. You just
18:37do it in the privacy of your own room.
18:39You know, we don't want we don't want
18:40other that's something you do with
18:42yourself and you enjoy with yourself and
18:43and it's fine for you to do. just, you
18:45know, you can't do it in the living
18:46room, right? Or whatever,
18:47>> right? But if mom walks into your own
18:48room, she probably is not on good
18:51ethical grounds lambasting you for it.
18:52You're like, actually, I was exactly in
18:54the right. Why are you in my room?
18:56>> She's just she's flustered probably,
18:57right? She doesn't want to see that.
19:00>> Oh my god. And then, you know, but it's
19:01like, okay, fine. Have that reaction in
19:03the moment, but then go back and say,
19:04I'm sorry. Like, I didn't mean to have
19:05that reaction. Like, I I think whatever
19:07you're doing was totally fine and normal
19:09and natural. I just was like nervous,
19:11right? You be a human. like it's okay to
19:13be human in front of your kids.
Story Time
19:15>> I have two quick stories about that. One
19:17is three quick stories. One is I like to
19:20harass my dad every now and again cuz he
19:21gets very serious about things and he's
19:23super super smart but very serious. Very
19:25conservative Christian conservative.
19:27>> And um I asked him once I was like,
19:30"Hey, hey dad, what's what's okay to do
19:32in the bedroom and not okay to do in the
19:34bedroom?" He's like all serious. He's
19:35like, "Misha, Misha is my Russian name.
19:37>> Anything that you like and the woman
19:39likes to is okay." And I was like, "My
19:41dog." He's like, "Shut up. Shut up."
19:43That's as far as that convers that was
19:45the equivalent of my the talk. This I
19:47had to start my the talk.
19:48>> Good talk.
19:49>> It's a great talk. Super inclusive, but
19:51in a very like shut up about it.
19:52>> That's all we can talk about 100%. And
19:54then another story is I had a friend who
19:57>> I don't know how politically correct
19:58this is or not. I'm not naming names or
20:00anything, but some children start with
20:02autootic behavior very early.
20:05>> And then so um
20:06>> it's a soothing behavior.
20:07>> Soothing behavior. and and her parents
20:09literally were just like, "Hey, you
20:11know, this is something for you in your
20:12private time, so if you just don't do it
20:13around people, you're totally okay."
20:15That was the only conversation they ever
20:16had about it. She never had a hang up
20:17about it. I was like, I heard that story
20:19from her and I was like, "What an
20:20amazing way to deal with that as
20:22parents." They just totally cleaned up
20:23on that one. They could have done so
20:25much crazy shit. They could have been
20:26like, "Oh, you're too young. Therapy
20:28time." Something totally insane. So, I
20:30thought that was really wonderful. And
20:31then one last story. Um, one of my
20:34friends, um, his, uh, has an adopted son
20:38who at the time was, uh, 11
20:41>> and his, sorry, he was with his
20:42biological, the adopted son's biological
20:44mother. And so, he he came into that
20:46relationship, right?
20:47>> And the biological mother, it's just
20:49like, you know, like men and women,
20:51there's some differences there, and
20:52she's a little bit from another culture.
20:55>> And she's like, his kid's like 11, then
20:5712, then 13. And she's like talks to my
21:00friend and she's like, "Why is you know
21:01the kid spending so much time in the
21:03shower and like she was knocking on the
21:04door and be like hurry up like wasting
21:06water." And my friend had to be like
21:09honey you got to let him be in there.
21:11And she's like why? He's like so he told
21:12her. She's like really? He's like yes do
21:15not bring it up to him. It's going to go
21:16really cuz you know the kid's in there
21:18trying to figure out his how his bits
21:19work. Mom's knocking on the show every
21:21five minutes. He's like traumatized.
21:23Yeah. So the the recommendation of just
21:26like let folks explore and treat it as a
21:29thing you do in private you think as a
21:30as a doctor is like a totally fine
21:33trajectory to go.
21:34>> I think it's a great trajectory. We we
21:35should know our bodies and so that we
21:37can actually eventually communicate
21:39those with a partner. What do I like?
21:41>> Sure. And I suppose insufficient shaming
21:43would be letting people do it in public
21:45in front of other people's view like you
21:46just weren't shamed enough.
21:48>> Shame is a nasty term.
21:50>> You weren't taught that that's
21:51inappropriate, right? It's just like as
21:53if you like chew with your mouth open,
21:54right? You weren't taught like to chew
21:56with your like same thing like you just
21:57weren't taught the the thing that this
21:59doesn't happen in public.
22:00>> But then at the same time, are you of
22:02the opinion that people on aggregate
22:04still sometimes maybe being shamed too
22:06much for their own sexual behaviors? And
22:08is that a problem? What do you think?
22:10Absolutely. No way. Absolutely. How is
22:11it a problem?
22:12>> I think that you know I think one it's
22:14like we like there's so much negativity
22:18around self-pleasure, right? It's fine
22:20to go have sex and like have sex with as
22:22many people as you want nowadays. That's
22:24okay. Great. Good job. You're empowered.
22:25But like when it comes to like exploring
22:27your own body and like trying to figure
22:29out what you like or being empowered or
22:31or whatever, it's like, oh, we don't
22:33talk about that and oh that's gross or
22:35like you know, whatever. There's a lot
22:37of like negativity around us still and
22:39no one talks about it, right? Like the
22:40conversation that we're having and the
22:42conversation that your friend had with
22:43their child like that doesn't happen.
22:45The parents don't know how to have the
22:46conversation.
22:47>> That's still true. So parents don't
22:49obviously back in the 70s it was just
22:50mostly shame and nothing else.
22:51>> Yeah. But now has that improved?
22:53>> I don't think they're I don't think they
22:54know I don't think they have the tools.
22:55Right. So a lot what happens a lot of
22:57parents don't know that they're not
22:58learning this stuff in school, right?
23:00They're just learning like here's a
23:01condom, here's consent. Like
23:02>> the banana and the condom banana, right?
23:04Like they're learning like I mean school
23:05has only so much time, right? They have
23:06to teach all these things. So I get it.
23:08Like they can't get into a deep dive. Uh
23:10but they are assuming that the kids
23:12learn everything they need to do in
23:13school. the parents maybe they're giving
23:15them some condoms or like here protect
23:17yourself don't don't have a you know
23:19don't don't get messy don't get pregnant
23:20don't get someone else pregnant whatever
23:21it is right um but that's pretty much
23:23where the conversation ends and so a lot
23:25of times they just don't know how to
23:26talk about it like they didn't get a
23:28conversation about it right when they
23:29were kids so they're like what do I say
23:32>> it's uncomfortable no one's really
23:33rushing into that conversation
23:35>> right but realizing like it's there's no
23:37comfortable conversations you just have
23:39to do it right like we are the parents
23:41like you have to just have the
23:42conversation whether you feel awkward or
23:44not, like you need you have to teach
23:46your kids like what's normal.
23:47>> Yeah. Doc, thank you so much. That was
23:49super super instructive.
23:50>> You're so welcome.
23:54[Music]